All right.

We are on the air with our November fourth work session.

And we start with an update from our events and volunteer coordinator Dan Harris on What's Coming up this winter.

Thank you very much, Mayor Bailey Counselors, for having me here with you once again.

I am Dan Harris, your events and volunteer coordinator.

And for anybody who would like to talk to me after this about any of the information shared today can be reached events at Milwaukee, Oregon dot com.

So this year we're going to do something that not at all different really we're going to do these two same rate events that we have been doing.

We are all for continuing to partner with Milwaukee to bring back the bike decorating contest this year, and the uh downtown lions of Milwaukee will be present to announce the winners of their uh storefront decorating contests.

Uh we are we are uh right now finalizing an agreement with a um a professional sound uh I'm sorry, audio engineer.

And so hopefully we will not have any kind of a repeat of last year's uh last year's audio troubles.

Although to be a point raised by I think everyone on this council at that event and several people who I've just talked to in the last year, we will also have a megaphone on hand.

Yeah, um but yes, this is gonna kick off in the South Downtown Plaza at 4:30 on Saturday, December 6th.

Um, anybody wishing to uh be judged or to enter into the umbrella contest umbrella decorating contest is asked to arrive by uh 415.

So it's actually a little bit misleading.

The website, I believe, does say 415.

We'll make sure it does.

Hey, Solstice.

Um I'm gonna just say quickly that Solstice is coming up on December 20th in this town.

We do umbrella parade on the first Saturday in December, and we do Solstice on the third Saturday in December.

And then this year is December 20th, so pretty close to the actual solstice.

Uh, it's gonna be in Milwaukee Bay Park down at the boat ramp from 4:30 to 7.30 p.m.

Uh you can come out and expect to see uh the Llewellyn NDA providing uh uh all of the wonderful refreshments that they have over the years.

We'll have the Ardenwald Johnson Creek NDA out selling um uh light up toys and and various other fun uh things.

There we go, that's a good word for that.

Really what I want to talk about with this though is that we are witnessing a little bit of a sea change this year.

This is going to be the very last year for the core group of people who have helped to organize the Lowelling MBA to provide um to provide food, and that revenue historically has gone to support Llewellyn's summer concert series.

So for anybody who has ever been to a Llewellyn concert in the last couple of decades, know that I've been supported in part by proceeds from this event.

And when I say the last couple of decades, um I want to really reflect on that because what we've had truly is is a core group of four people.

Sheila Oaks, Howie Oaks, Lisa Lashbrook, Stefan Lashbrook, and four of them together.

Um, I mean, along with many, many members of the community, but the four of them together have really been the core of this since inception.

I mean, I think a lot of people don't really realize that the origin of the solstice celebration here in Milwaukee was people telepating in a gravel park.

And if you look, I mean, that this is the oldest picture that I could find of the area.

This this seems to be from um 20, like winter 2013, into 2014.

Uh, it could not have been any later than 2014, but these these celebrations were going on down there earlier than that.

The picture on the right is last year.

It has grown considerably, and they have been there every single year making it happen.

So I don't want anyone to worry.

The city has plans in place for what it's going to look like in the future, and we're going to continue to adapt and evolve those.

Um, I've had some conversations with some of the local uh food vendors who participated in Milwaukee Fest about potentially coming in to bend.

There's always the option to hire food trucks, which um we looked at a few years ago when it seemed like maybe it was time for for uh our Lowelling crew to be um to be moving on, um, and and it wasn't viable then just due to some constraints around the pandemic.

Point is this is going to be an event very much like what we've seen in the past years.

And next year we're gonna continue to celebrate.

We're gonna continue to come together.

But there'll probably be any menu, and hopefully the familiar faces that have done so much to support this event and this community will have a chance to either take some time off and enjoy it or get far, far away from here.

I think they'd like to have vacation.

Yeah, take some time off at December.

Um I guess I'm curious.

So when I was when I started going to it, which was probably 20 years ago, um, I was the neighborhood chair in Island Station.

We wanted in on the action.

We tried to um we had a proposal to we wouldn't sell anything that duplicated when they were selling, we were gonna sell something else.

Um, and there was, you know, there was sort of a line in the saying, oh, they were the first, and they came out when no one else came out.

And um, so I guess my question is are there not other neighborhoods who want to step in?

There sure aren't, Mayor.

Um, we floated this to all of the NDAs, and we let them know hey, if you if you think maybe you're interested, if you think there might be some capacity to take this on, let me know, I will connect you with the organizers with the with Blue Lane.

They were so happy to sit down and have that conversation.

Um, there were some nibbles from Lynnwood and Historic Milwaukee, but uh I'm sorry, not historic Milwaukee, uh Island Station, but ultimately there just there wasn't enough interest.

And Artenwald doesn't want to expand what they do, they like their they're happy where they're at, is my understanding.

So I heard from Island Station someone that they would maybe like to partner with.

I think that's the problem is that great.

Let's do that.

Lynn would the only other one to respond with even a maybe after some further reviews.

It's probably not for us.

So I I will say like 20 years is a long time, and um moving into this um privatized model does give us the option in the future.

If we do have another neighborhood association, crop off and say, hey, we know about this, we know this has been a fundraising opportunity, we'd like to get involved.

Nobody, nobody on the city staff is saying, Well, we don't want that, we don't want this money to stay with the NBAs.

If there was a good way for this to continue to work with the NDAs, I'd be all in work with that.

There does not appear to be, so we're gonna make sure that the event happens.

And also if that changes by next year, that's another conversation.

So I also say um the two people I think get shout outs for those early days.

Um the um Lash Brooks and uh um Oaks, definitely have been long time triggers, but in those early years, I think our ball, the man in Berkeley Molly Show Park is named, and former counselor Joe Loomis, um, who was counselor at that time, he was the guy who was bringing in the truckload of firewood and setting it up and starting the bonfire, and you know, so I mean there are there are definitely some um some other old timers who were involved in that uh over the years, but um and I remember Jeff Klein, who was one of the former blue LA chairs, he had purple uh Christmas lights all around that tent, and I was like, why purple?

Minnesota Vikings.

Um anyway.

I I do I do want to be respectful of time.

I realize we're a little bit over very quickly.

There are other events happening uh in Milwaukee this winter on December 13th from 8:30 a.m.

to 1 p.m.

We'll be hosting Arbor Day, and that is in collaboration with Friends of Trees.

Uh starting at Watertower Park, but they're gonna be plantings all over, certainly the east side of the city.

It's a little bit smaller this year than it has been in past years, and that just has to do with scheduling and availability.

Why is Arbor Day in December?

Well, because in this part of the world, traditionally we have done Arbor Day in October, November, December, just because that's when it's more sustainable and better for the trees to take root.

Uh my understanding is that it was a combination of getting our new urban forester on board, and then also the capacity that Friends of Trace had.

December 13th, if you would like to volunteer or be involved, Friends of Freeze.org is the place to go.

Uh Bing in the New Year is coming up on December 31st, and it's gonna be from 6 to 9 p.m.

in the farmers market parking lot, just directly across from Historic City Hall.

Uh, and that can be more information about that can be found at BinginThenewyear.com.

We're also going to have the Milwaukee Lightswalk, which is uh put on sponsored, imagined and created by the downtown alliance of Milwaukee, and that's going to be running from December 6th.

Isn't that the day umbrella parade?

Yeah, yeah, it is.

Uh, right through March 26th, and more information about that can be found at downtown Milwaukee.org.

I do want to point out I almost ran right over it for uh Bing in the New Year.

I mean the new year this year, because of their ongoing work with the Northwest China Council was able to successfully apply for and receive a Milwaukee Community Events Fund brand from the Equity Steering Committee.

Um and so while I do not anticipate that being an ongoing sponsorship because that's not the way that the community events fund is designed, it is happening this year, and so kudos to the arts committee for their success in that application, and um good job, ESC for holding the line and making sure that they got it right.

And so kudos to the arts committee for their success in that application.

And good job, ESC for holding the line and making sure that they got it right.

I think I think that was well done by everybody.

I don't think I have anything else.

I sure don't.

So here again is my contact information.

And um anything before I just one question for you.

I was so excited and appreciative of the volunteer part of your title and your recruitment this year for volunteers.

How's that gone?

It's gone well.

I wouldn't say it's gone great.

Um we have uh gosh, we have uh about a half dozen volunteers for umbrella parade, and we have uh seven or eight for solstice.

And so we're able to cut back on the amount of staff time that we're using for it.

This is gonna long term be a pretty significant savings just in terms of um overtime calm time, the rest of it.

So we are we are um gonna continue to build out that volunteer.

Great database, we're gonna continue to flush that out.

But as we start it, as we get it rolling with these two events, good start.

You've had the uh rotary as a volunteer before, and they're not gonna no no they I'm sorry, they they are.

I mean uh in terms of like setup and hair down.

No, no, I mean in terms of setup and tear down.

Okay.

So historically what's happened with that is that it was the city manager's office, and then a few years ago um when I got this position, I said, hey, you know, I noticed that there are a lot of city employees here.

What's up with that?

How are they getting paid?

And the answer was no, they're volunteering in their off time.

And there are a lot of words for unpaid labor, and none of them are nice.

So I said, hey, what if we paid staff members to do this?

And city leadership at the time was very supportive of that and has been ever since.

Um if there's room for the community to come out and volunteer, then let's do that.

Let's let people take ownership of these events and get kind of get their hands dirty with it.

Yeah, so volunteers set up and take down the sustainability fighter.

That's another event.

So you have an online uh pitch.

You're actually using like a deployment website, right?

We are, yes.

Um, it's it's all managed here in-house, but it is it is the same application process that we use uh for our uh for city applicants.

I mean, anybody who's applying for work with the city.

Um it's a it's I say application because that's what the form is called through NeoGov.

It is registration.

I mean, unless there is some hugely disqualifying factor that what we're looking for is people to come help hang lights and then pack them away neatly at the end.

So it's it's not so we can help spread the word.

Absolutely.

Please do.

Um I would say that we at this point have it's it's been active for a couple of months, and so I think that we're getting to a point where we're gonna sort of be a shore up staffing on it.

I I've got I have gone back and solicited participation from city staff members.

Um so I don't know that we necessarily need a ton more help with it, but yes, it is live.

Milwaukee.gov, I believe slash volunteers or volunteer.

Check that.

I know sure.

And you know, they're only not allowed to climb the ladder with you.

I I think what I said, Emma is I'm not your emergency management program, but just from a human standpoint, please do not.

I I will say I I am I'm gonna set up a little bit of a betting pool.

Um it's how many events can Emma make it to before she pops.

I'd like to make a full run, go to Bing in the New Year and then go straight to the hospital.

Well, I think I one of one of my colleagues did tell you that uh I believe her water broke at solstice or umbrella parade.

I think she's at the baby shower.

Yeah, we're gonna happen too.

Well, hey.

Some smart smart money is on that is some real time management, yeah.

Right.

Well, I'll I know we have other updates unless there's anything else.

Thank you all for anything.

And next up, safe access for everyone planning.

Um our public works director, Peter Passerelli and our engineer Jennifer Garvely.

And I will just say while they're getting set up, I had two uh lights today from people about all the disruption around town and construction, and I know it's mostly not ours, not the cities.

Um, but I do wish we got a little more heads up from the railroad from uh from people.

I do know where we're gonna get some stuff up on social media about the railroad.

Thanks very much.

Heads up would be great.

Maybe another five or six days working up on the railroad.

Well, ODOT was out on McLaughlin today at the where they're doing that.

What do you call it?

The ADA ramps, and so I think they were taking advantage of the one break in the rain to try and get as much as they could get them.

Yeah, yeah, they're having schedule.

Yeah.

It's good stuff.

Good thing so I'm I'm Peter Passerelli, I'm the uh public works director and then Jen Garley, our city engineer, and we're here this afternoon to talk about our SAFE program.

Um we've had some some brief discussions, I think, at budget committee about some of the issues with our safe programs, some of the financial issues that we're having with it uh in terms of the strength of the fund.

And we wanted to talk about the program what we described for the years with that, and then outline some potential recommendations on how we fix some of the financial issues that that might be out, and uh and and where we where we might go forward with that program.

So uh safe.

Uh what is our safe program?

Well, that's our program that we've dedicated to plan and fund and a number small uh moderate walking and and biking improvements throughout the city.

Sometimes those projects are moderately large, I'd say that uh they have been impactful.

I think we've spent uh a little over 15 million dollars on same projects since we uh the fee is a monthly transportation uh utility charge, it shows up on our utility bill.

Uh and it's restricted, those fees are restricted for use on pedestrian bike and AVA access.

Uh it complements our other transportation funding, our SSMP program that we use for pavement maintenance to do slurry sales and inlays and that type of work, uh, as well as our gas tax or large the other parts of our transportation project and urban realms as well.

Uh you know, the objectives of the program is to provide safe access for everyone, right?

So we're improving that access for bikes and pedestrians throughout the community, trying to improve a landing compliance uh throughout the city, uh improved connectivity, uh as well as having equitable access as well.

Uh and we try to those improvements.

Uh we also it ties with our climate uh action plan, trying to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions as as a as a community.

Uh and you know, we use it as a source uh as a source also to leverage other funding sources while we have large transportation projects and um can I ask um before you go on?

I mean, looking at the projects that got done, and you know, and the stuff in your memo in your staff report about you know cost escalations.

Are we comfortable that we really I mean, all of these projects tend to be some safe, some SSMP and some utility?

Are we confident that the utilities are paying their share of these projects?

Yes, okay.

When we put a project together, um bid IMs are individually marked out of what utility they would go to.

Um, and then there's a portion of bid items that are proportioned uh to all of the bid items, so like mobilization, for example, or traffic control.

And so let's say safe was 50% of the work, and storm was 20%, and you know, something else, those proportions would be built out to um those all by that percentage.

So if safe was 50%, they paid 50% of the vocalization as it came in.

And so our uh estimate to um finance has several different GL codes that's hitting um whatever items hit that we can.

So yes, we carefully track that.

Okay, thank you.

Um so how's our our safe fee set?

Uh that fee is is is set by council but through resolution.

Uh you know, and we generally have set that on a by a biannual basis as part of our budgeting process, so it's within our consolidated fee schedule.

And we have a flat residential fee for single family residential.

And the non-residential is generally a factory land use.

So large grocery store is going to pay more because the trips generated is more than perhaps a small professional service business, right?

So it's set generally by the number of trips as part of it as a factor.

And then as we bill part of that billing is uh may also be adjusted by uh for different customers based on you know acreage, like a park, how big a park is what might be impacted by by the acreage uh square footage of uh of the buildings.

Uh those those are some of the things that we use.

Um I said, yeah, you also hear low income offer this as well.

None of our uh both the state and the C fees are uh well in customers that qualify and are eligible for low income and meet the requirements.

They don't not pay that fee.

Or fees, I should say.

Uh we update it by it by annually.

So as we go through a budget process, uh starting that we've started uh you know next spring as we adopt the budget and fee schedule will have that opportunity to make that adjustment of the fees for the next button.

What we have historically done uh it's used a five-year average uh cost construction cost index as sort of an annual uh adjustment for the uh for the fee.

Uh and then and that's that's done by resolution.

Uh I think council also has the ability to adjust the fee uh as they wish uh based on needs.

Um there's sort of that automatic adjustment there to try to cover the cost associated, increased costs associated with construction.

Uh those changes take effect July 1st with most of our other fees.

Uh uh, there may be from time to time technical adjustments made to the fee structure.

Those would require, may require council uh resolution by council resolution.

You know, maybe we're we've got new data on trip trip generation, so we might make adjustments there.

Uh we also do some adjustments in-house based on uh land use reclassifications customers, you know, customers change their use of a facility so they're don't change.

Um that makes sense.

So that's how the fee is set.

Uh I think I'm gonna turn it over to Jen a little bit to talk about projects for the last two years.

Look at this map.

I worked on all of these projects.

Um it's pretty exciting.

I think the nice thing about this is it's also all around the city.

We're not just in one section of the city, we are all over the place, which is great.

Um, so big kudos.

This is a ton of work that we've done.

A lot of projects we've gotten, you know, done over the last eight years.

I've been here eight years.

This is the last eight years um that we've gone through this.

Um amazing with the staff that we have, how we've kept moving this forward.

So I think that's just really a great test of what we can do and how we have gotten through a lot of this.

Um questions on your favorite.

Can you pick favorites?

Wow, it's a good thing.

But I do think Kroneburg Park was a very unique one with a branch in there as far as that goes and being in the trees and stuff like that.

But um, lots of amazing things.

I just came back from a conference, and so many people are like, you're doing so much in Milwaukee.

They're like, I love your network at your bike facilities.

Like, I come I, you know, and they're like, how do I get on a project?

I want to work on in Milwaukee.

So we're getting lots of kudos all over the place.

And someone who's worked for our neighbor in the north, and they have impressive maps like this too, but they can't deliver on this fast.

So I think it's really quite impressive and something for this council and team engineering to be so proud of.

Okay, so the next map kind of talk about what we have going on right now.

I think this is also important because King Road is one of our big ones.

It's gonna came back in November, um, going from Linwood all the way to 43rd.

Then we have Harvey Street Improvements from 32nd to 40th, and then we're gonna pick up some paving 42nd to Johnson Creek and a newer B.

Gonna go in, which is super exciting.

Um Harvey also, this is one of those combined projects that has definitely a lot of water, stormwater, and sewer work that we're doing uh with that project, um, which is exciting.

And then our spa program is starting to actually really start coming out with projects.

So we have some signage for shared roads and um the uh island station area, uh Widgetau got four new speed cushions, um then hearing some positive things about uh we have a new proposal coming in on 29th Avenue that um got approved that we're looking at some additional um improvements there.

Um we're in the middle of designing our um we released South Project Um and a little piece of 26th Avenue in-house, those are in-house designs.

Um and then you have Monroe.

Monroe is gonna come start next summer on East and Central.

Um I still betting the central is gonna be east, uh, because we're managing the central portion, and what I'll be doing the other piece, and then we have our RAPA dollars that'll come in 2028 to start deciding railroad.

So just because you know, we're adjusting this fee, we've got a lot of work still coming in our soul post.

Is the road a definite?

I knew it was um C4 list, but did it it actually is my understanding?

It is final, yeah.

It went through JPAC and they go through unpack as well, or no, maybe it just looks to be attacked.

Yeah, also and what's the stuff in Island Station?

Uh they are shared road signs.

Oh yes, for some shared road signs.

Um there's about eight of them that went in, or um I think are they just getting finished up off the touch in with Ellie as far as that goes, but no, she was it was in the works as far as that goes.

Um after we get the design dollars for railroads, can you help me fill in the docs?

Because I know we talked about this in the project, the TSP, but what happens to try and get more dollars afterwards, and where do we come up with a matching box for our so yeah, we would uh well we would apply for either another RAPO or maybe an SS4 grant or whatever else is out there, but yeah, we would need those um federal dollars.

Um at that point, we would have to decide we'd have to decide if we're gonna use transportation dollars or some of our safe funds to um feed that construction dollars at this point.

Um we do have the design money budgeted next CIP that we're building our match there, but um yeah, both these them talk about where where the that match comes in, and it depends on the grain.

So some of them are only some of them are zero, some of them are 10%, some of them are 20%.

Yeah, so it really depends on what type of funding we go after.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Any any other questions?

So we've done a lot, we're still doing a lot.

Uh well, what's the what's the furthest east line out there?

Wichita.

Oh, is that Wichita?

That's the Wichita, the speed cushions we put in Wichita.

Oh yeah.

Oh, and then there's an RFP.

We installed a solar-powered RFE at um Stanley and Harlow for the spa program.

And we've got a couple, we've got some more spot things that are gonna happen this year, I imagine.

So Stanley and where are we is a hard one?

I think it's Harlow.

Okay.

Yes, Harlow, closer to the park.

It's closer to the park.

It's the park um right there where we have our reservoir and that small park uh north of the school.

Okay, okay, got it, got it behind the school.

Yeah, yes, behind the school.

Yeah, oh, so next slide.

Oh, I was I I was just gonna mention that um there were some youth that were involved in um like walking around the Harvey Street.

Well, it was actually at the time like 42nd, 42nd, yeah.

We're in the middle of construction, yeah.

Yeah, but I wonder, I mean, like all of those youth are still here in Milwaukee and they're in high school now.

But I wonder if it would be possible to like include them somehow in you know, like when this gets done or in an update or something like that.

I think it would be helpful for them because sometimes you know.

Do you have like I have contact information?

Okay.

You can send that to me.

That would be great.

Uh I think it would be really fun.

You'd be looking at possibly something like next June or July.

I mean, having our fees in place before that date, but that's like when we'd be like celebrating the project.

And the maybe a fundress is you know helped influence something.

Yeah, I love it.

I like that.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we're looking at safe, you know, as a result of sort of two bonds, right?

Or 2018 bond, and then a bond that we did, I think we actually uh got the process three bonds we that our larger transportation program and which part which was safe as part of uh so we've got a lot a lot of work done through that, about 13 million.

And I think uh you know, when we first set out on this program, we would consider it uh another trunch of financing to continue with some more aggressive uh projects, safe projects.

Um I think over the last year and a half or so as we're as we've worked through the budget and and are preparing the budget now that we've we've identified some structural issues with SAFE that are a little bit different than like our SSMP program, SSMP uh you know gets funds from uh the SSMP fee that also gets up to one and a half percent privilege tax for PGB that that's incorporated, so it has a closer funding that will make or that work.

Uh yes, a little and advanced maybe yeah, uh two cents.

Yeah, yeah, maybe a local a local sales tax piece, yeah.

A local gas tax fees, yes.

So but so there's a little bit more funding streaming for SSL safe is the funding source that we have there for the program that's based off of the fee and leveraging those dollars.

Uh and that's for a couple reasons for several reasons I'll get into is sort of put us in a little bit about so currently current program is uh the current problem is our fund is not structurally balanced.

So the revenue that we get on an annual basis doesn't fully cover our debt service and transfers, and those transfers are generally the city's overhead to help manage uh program and you know the accounting and all of the city.

Uh you know this year we are projecting about 1.5 million in safe fees.

Uh that's what we have budgeted.

The fee itself.

Uh well, accommodation of transfers and debt services about 1.6, almost 1.7 million.

Uh so there's a difference of about 172,000.

Uh what we've been doing over the last couple of years is we've been backfilling that with the fund balance.

Uh it's not sustainable, and it doesn't put us in a position to uh to do pay as you go to projects uh at the rate of uh fee increases that we can do.

So what we've done is we've you know we work with Emma and Michael and Jen and I and uh we outlined a couple of those scenarios for consideration and we've provided a recommendation as well.

Um but why is this occurring?

Um so I think I think the big the big issue is one of the assumptions that was made uh when you were looking at finance in this was uh related to growth uh within the city.

Um there was uh an assumption that would the city was gonna see one per second growth and a growth accounts and and that would be common just last night we're meeting with our community utility advisory dividing talking a little bit about revenue requirements on our water and wastewater rates that you're working on, and the consultant there is using about a quarter of a percent uh in terms of general growth.

So we're we're not seeing the growth that was forecasted when we looked at this early on in 2018.

So I guess I'm not figuring out how that's not reflected.

Well, how about our 2016 um housing needs analysis?

We've had about a 15% increase in the number of housing units.

But I mean, a lot of those have been apartments.

I don't know.

When you talk about accounts, I guess separate accounts, but they still pay the fee, right?

Well, perhaps.

Uh it depends on you know, if you if if that property rent and if there's a you know owner in the house, um, but we haven't seen uh I haven't seen that 50% show up in any of the revenue streams.

Uh affordable housing would be exempt too.

So I mean not a ton of units, but it's some of them.

Um I think there's also you know, those the grow-up assumptions also assume it's pretty good growth and commercial, not just residential, and I don't think we've met the commercial growth thresholds and assumptions that we have.

Yeah, and I and I could you know, frankly, some of the multi-family housing, you know, that's discounted out at about 80 percent when when you look at it unit to unit.

Oh, is it that much?

So there's a little bit of a gap there in terms of the number of units, yeah, well, yeah.

All the dwelling is already done.

Um so we we haven't that that account that that account growth has a lot.

I I also think part of it, uh, and I was thinking about this over the last couple of days as it was present in which I think there's also a little bit of an insert growth in trans as well.

There's been a growth there that we didn't fully probably capture in the analysis uh that that impacts that.

Um, and I think there's some ways that maybe we can make some adjustments and cost allocation based on our changes or was for organizational structure that we've done and the budget to maybe mitigate some of that.

Uh you know, we've also had some under collection uh during COVID for a while.

Um the debt service component for the 2018 and 2020 bond share safe is about 48 and a half percent of uh debt service.

You know, we have I think it's almost two million uh dollars in service between safe SSNP and uh transportation, and SAFE has the largest component in proportion.

Um I don't know if that was fully anticipated in terms of projects uh cost at the time.

Uh and I also think you know, we've used this five-year uh construction cost index methodology, and we use the five year to try to keep out of the peaks and valleys sometimes, you know, increases.

We may have seen some you know 11-12 percent increases uh in 2020, you know, 21-22 when the construction costs were really high.

Uh so there's a little bit of an impact there, uh, and at the same time our our construction costs are going up, but we were probably raising it.

But that using that five-year construction cost index, you know, tries to level levels the changes in inflationary costs.

So we're trying to try to protect the utility rate pay there.

So I think there's a little bit of that that that impacted there.

Um so how do we uh fix that gap?

Um got three scenarios that we uh have looked at, taking a look at uh the first scenario looks at let's just cover that cost gap that we have that 172,000 dollars.

Uh from our and if we'll look at it, it looks like uh you know, doing two five percent increases uh over the next year uh will get us there, but that really leaves us uh about three hundred thousand dollars left over in safe funds uh any distance funding anyhow, and really doesn't put any additional funding, make additional funding for forest spot program and uh the street enhancement program like enhancement program.

Um so the next one was developing uh a scenario that was provided a modest pay as you go and would revive about 300,000 dollars a year, uh 600,000 in the biennium, uh and that will require about a 13% increase uh next July, followed by six percent.

$600,000 in the biennium.

And that will require about a 13% increase next July.

And then the following and an additional 52 cents.

And it looked like to do that, we would have to increase the fee to somewhere around 11 to 13 dollars.

So that would have an impact of about four to six dollars per month per customer.

I think we're uh uh we where we are is uh we said the recommendation was scenario two.

You know, these these percentages there are really fixed right now.

There could be maybe some potential adjustments as we look at cost allocations and make some adjustments there to mitigate that component that might uh reduce that uh feature increase the the percent seems high, but the impact's relatively low terms uh less than the because it feeds relatively well currently is seven dollars and eleven cents.

Um questions.

Well, I guess the question I have is I mean, this is whatever the I might take the point that the numbers might change before we get to budget season, but you're talking about this for the those two the next two budget years.

If we didn't bond now, there's nothing that says we can't bond if the conditions are more favorable.

If construction costs come down and we want to take advantage of lower construction costs, we could bond two years from now or whatever.

Yeah, at any time, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Correct.

Um so here's our recommendation.

We are um we've got a lot of water work coming up.

We will be definitely focusing on that as well.

Um, and so with these spot funds and doing that option too, it really will have a big impact on maintaining a spot program, which we are proposing 300,000 in a biennium.

These are community proposals that come into PSAC, and PSAC is the one that decides if they're gonna move forward or not.

Um we like this idea because it's giving the community an opportunity to look at things that are maybe small that we didn't that we can't do in a big CIP, but maybe we can you know attach these small little safe issues and keep building that in our community.

In addition, we're proposing a new program called SAFE Streets Enhancements, and that's really where we're trying to also focus on bike and maybe some PED opportunities there as well.

Um, this would be run by staff on this program 300,000 in a biennium.

So we're looking at a total of 600,000 uh for the biennium.

And it's gonna I mean it's it's it's looking definitely at smaller projects, but it is you know, looking at that new GSP, um tracking those bikeways and really trying to help those small connections where we can where they don't need big improvements and they need wayfinding, they need markings, um, maybe some delineators, um, maybe some speed pushes some traffic coming to kind of reduce um impacts of speeding and things like that on our streets to become safer.

And just to connect the dots for you guys, you know, several months ago you gave us direction to be incorporating a at that point.

You called it Greenway Plates making CIP project.

Greenway, the language is sort of we're trying to not use that as much as the TSP as really um clarified more like bikeway and pedestrian um walkway, like moving away from that, and but this is meant to be that more programmatic kind of street enhancements focused on placemaking, wayfinding, and safety, so that across those pieces of our network, you get that kind of look and feel that makes someone using them as a cyclist or a pedestrian kind of know, oh, I'm on a I'm on a safe street.

This will also help uh as we develop this year or five year heating plan, and if we hit some of those streets that we're paving, but you know, they still need some um you know way binding or signage or parking rooms, we would have this bucket too to be able to pay for those things and combine it as you know, one project, um, which makes efficiency and brings better projects to the community.

And I know some of you are following it a little closer than others, but there's a spot application that I think has been approved by feedback um to do um some enhancements along 29th.

Um, and I think that you know, while that is this that predates what we're proposing here, it becomes kind of a nice model or what you could see across other safe streets.

So when you say that this um the enhancements program would be run by staff, doesn't that mean that the proposals come from staff and are decided by staff?

Does that mean that the proposals can still come externally and then are decided by staff versus the second?

Um I wasn't envisioning that uh safe streets enhancements would come from PISAC, they have their program that they would be working on.

That's a spot.

Um, this program we would identify in the CIP.

So we would look at what streets are we proposing in the CIP to work on during that next biennium.

So we would um put out their recommendation as far as what we're looking at.

Would there be an opportunity for public input on those shirt projects?

Well, you might not.

I think if we get the direction um from you all that this is where we're gonna go, this is why we're doing this now.

Um, is that when we start, you know, making the final touches on the CIP and the budget process, we can daylight for folks.

Hey, we've got this new thing, and um, here's your here's your new adopted TSP map that shows your bikeways and your walkways, and we're thinking about where to start with some safe streets enhancements.

29's getting done.

Uh, where should we go next?

I think that'd be a pretty good way.

We still don't want it to come through that that budget process and let spot be that part for like oh, we really didn't know there was a problem here, and the community has identified that spot.

So would it be accurate to say that safe is tied to CIP projects or not?

Yes, it's still tied.

So just because we're not spending the safe bucket, um you we still have multiple safety projects that are gonna happen, right?

So that they will be using the transportation.

Stanley is gonna be one of them.

Um you're gonna have um our world uh self is in the you're gonna see in the CIP as we give a new and um uh logus row.

Yeah, I mean we still have some bond revenue that we can spend on other safe projects in the upcoming budget budget.

So I I think you know, safe is still in our CIP, safe bud CIP work.

Both of these programs are capital improvement projects, but it's the difference between a multi-million dollar full road build-up versus more kind of a programmatic approach where we're paying as you go on smaller scale treatments or site-specific things.

And then we're also gonna still be going out for those grants free to do some of our different projects as well.

What okay?

So when you say bicycle bicyclists and a little pedestrian, and with this refined approach, does that take away a focus on sidewalk improvements?

Because I'm conf I'm confused where that plays a role, sidewalks because there are a lot of people that do walk and mothers and strollers and yeah.

So, like on 29th, we're looking at installing um stop signs on the side streets and then delineators um along the roadway.

Um, that will be for pedestrians and bikes to have a crossing, and it'll impact the driver to have to look before they actually enter into the intersection and slow down so they can't drive on 29th full blown, right?

So that is, I mean, the idea is it's a bikeway, but that'll also help pedestrians.

That's why I say it's not just bike, it'll be pedestrian improvements.

I think that's my question.

It's based on the resources that we need, financial resources that we have the program, you know, over the next biennium, and what we're forecasting really over the next six years, that's then have a lot of new large safe program, safe projects that haven't already been identified that all aren't already in our current CIP.

And uh what I mean by that is like we're not looking at building like new yearly world shared use packs.

We don't have the funding to do that.

We're assuming that we'll shared use.

We are we're gonna look at railroad with the you know yeah, but with the grant.

But those types of projects are limited by financial resources.

So basically sidewalks are cut, unless it's part of the CIP project, they're not gonna be part of SAFE anymore.

I guess what I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is we have two tranches of SID that we've bought for that we're using to pay for the CIP projects.

We have a TSP, we still have like money that we're spending on large projects that include big sidewalks.

But if we want to do more pedestrian stuff and squeeze every last dollar, this is for like what else can we squeeze for pedestrians and bikes with just a small, small pot of money.

Is that true?

Yeah, I mean, we're we just have a limited refund.

No, I I understand that, but I'm looking at it from like the public view, right?

You're looking at an increase of X amount of percentage, but you're getting less out of the program.

See what I'm saying?

Like for the public, they're gonna be like, how am I paying more?

But now I don't get the same type of enhancements that I was getting before.

You're just getting them more slowly.

But what I'm saying, like if you wanted to do a sidewalk project, you I mean how would you do that?

Can you go back to the program?

The three scenarios because I think if you wanted to keep doing large sidewalk projects, you'd be looking at that four to six dollar increase.

Um even if we are just trying to basically cover the cost of the debt we've already taken, that's scenario one, you're still gonna see an increase, and then you're really not gonna see anything.

And the scenario two, we felt like was a way to still see progress, still see improvements to um pedestrian and bike safety across you know, streets, but just on that smaller scale, and looking at more, you know, we we that map of all those big projects that was a lot done in seven years.

And um, I think it does us being honest that without a m a big increase, we're gonna have to slow that scale in.

And 29th is a good example.

I think the total project cost was like 30,000.

Yeah, I mean it's it's very, yeah.

And you're getting you know the Boonorf streets that are like shared, but you're getting like a boon or for really cheap.

So it's uh it's like as much a an anti project.

It's not it would be so much better to have sidewalks down 29th, but for 25,000 to have like a much safer street to walk on.

It's kind of like uh in the short term, this is the best thing that we can do.

And I understand that I I just look at it because 29th is a is a different example than let's say if your neighborhood street intersects with the main thoroughfare, right?

So if you're coming off of King, yeah, where people cut through and speed through your neighborhood, what you guys, the enhancements you're talking about may not make people feel safe enough to want to push their kids in the street, because that's my scenario.

I live right off of 55th and King.

And we don't have sidewalks.

And people during rush hour cut through that neighborhood from one row because of all the construction, and it's gonna get worse because we're gonna shing is gonna get tighter.

Right?

Essentially that middle lane is gonna go away.

So those enhancements on 29th may not be, it's not a blanket approach.

Some neighborhoods might fit better or feel safer with a sidewalk as opposed to a wonderful.

100%.

I think we all agree it's just about what it's gonna take to pay for those sidewalks.

It might take a four to six dollar increase.

And and what we're saying now is uh and it doesn't restrict us from doing that in the future, having a decision several years out from now to go out and bond from for more money.

But right now we're the revenue that we generate from where it is in the fee doesn't promote us uh that additional um revenue to pay for an additional debt service or to bank uh more dollars for monthly.

I guess um, I mean the safe was never gonna build sidewalks on your street.

I mean, there was never I'm not I'm not saying that that's what it was gonna do, but yeah.

I was just using my street as a sample.

What I'm saying is you can't use 29th as an example across the board.

So whatever we build on 29th is gonna apply to the street.

That's all.

That's why it's gonna get some right.

Um it does mean though, like you're right.

We have a nine-year plan that we put together.

We're not finishing that nine year plan if we don't go out right in the shell.

Or it's gonna take longer, I'm saying that that lasts you know.

No, I understand the increase.

I'm just it it's when you think about it from the person who's paying.

Yeah, you're like, damn, my bill's going up, but I'm gonna get potentially less on my street.

I for example, if their streets more like not like 20 for 29th, it might be great.

So I'm I'm just you know, I'm not I I understand that we we have to do something, but I don't think it is the I tweak your language.

I think you're right, itch.

The we get less.

I think this is still additive than what you would have gotten before.

So, like let's let's play with your street as the example.

Right now, there's no safe project.

But in theory, if we have a public process that's kind of like the street repayment process where people want to see stuff, someone could throw out your street and not maybe as like a forever solution, but as a for the next 10 years as we look for more funds, we have something there.

It's kind of that like stop gap to something a little more concrete.

So it still is the stop gap isn't it's not like less than it is, it's less than a real sidewalk, but they were never gonna get the sidewalk.

So it's like a it's additive, but it's not fully additive, is maybe quite sounds of addition with by subtraction.

Uh-huh.

It's additive, but at a slower slower rate.

That's a good idea.

We're we're continuing to do improved set.

Um improved safety and access for both bikes and pedestrians.

And I will say, you know, when the first tranche happened, I think um was on council, and when we saw the amount that my bonding the amount that was going to debt service, what coming in?

I mean, it's just like our your home mortgage, right?

You're paying more interest than principal, and we're paying more interest than principal on our debt service.

Um, and he voted no.

You know, he voted no on um on bonding because of that.

Um, and I had some um at the second round, I had my own problems about it, though.

Yes, but I mean, it's always been you know, the bonding is yeah.

So this doesn't avoid the potential need to bond later.

If you want to, that's like big is how fast you want to go.

So I mean, I think one thing I would say is we do got a lot of water work coming up.

So from capacity, I do have to shift some of the folks off of transportation and focus on our treatment plans, and that's that's a program.

That's not the project.

That is a program with lots of different projects that need to be filled.

So um we have recommended option number two, um, mostly because we feel from a capacity standpoint we can deliver on option number two pays you go.

Um if you were to go for like option number three, maybe it's not a bond, but we're building that bank up a little bit so we can do a bigger project, not this budget season, but maybe the next one, and that that's not what you're looking for.

It's too big of a price increase for people right now.

Right.

I mean, I'm looking at my but uh my main point is like looking at it from the customer's point of view and being transparent of what they're gonna get and what they're not gonna get, right?

Like I think at the end of the day, it's reading between the lines that sidewalks are probably not gonna be something people can.

I think you're absolutely right, counselor.

And I think it's we would say the safe program is evolving, it is no longer a project a program that delivers these large scale big CIP projects that have you know, sidewalks down the it's becoming more about those um those spot and corridor treatments that make street safer on a more you know on a slightly slower and so you know no matter what scenario we're pursuing.

Um listening to this guy around here is it's been interesting.

I would just say that uh we got a lot of work to do communicating whatever scenario we come up with because it's awfully freaking company.

Okay, and it's hard to you know put into a bumper sticker, and uh to your point, you know, we want people to understand it.

We really gotta work on getting this down to something that's digestible.

Second thing I'd like to ask is that you know, we we talked about some things that how we got here, some of it seems to be in forecasting um the ability to make mid-course corrections.

Um what if we learn from that?

Did we do a better job on the next fact?

Yeah, and I I think there's certainly yeah, absolutely not supposed to be learned.

You know, I've I've looked at, you know, I mentioned that we used that five-year construction cost index.

Uh, and that's provided some protection to the ratepayers in terms of keeping down costs when we would have seen if we would have used an annual construction cost index every year, but we're seeing 11 and 12%.

Maybe this isn't safe.

But by using that five percent, we've we've sort of leveled that out.

Uh yeah, we can take a look at uh what that sensitivity is and look at those five and three year and annual uh what or those one year uh increases to see what that would how that would impact.

Um they could have a positive or a negative impact on on the rate uh on the revenue that that we need.

I think right now what what we have seen is you know we're no longer seeing 11 and 12 percent increases in construction costs, and in some cases, maybe in some months where there's been you know, if you look at the individual month, uh you'll see a decline in construction cost uh from the previous one.

So there's we got to provide some protection from that aspect as well.

So um, but we can certainly look at the I'm not suggesting you do a you know major reaction based upon one year change, but what I'm hearing is they haven't done anything for several years.

Well, each each bienia we can through and we use that scale control cost against those investments.

Is that to say well it hasn't it hasn't it hasn't fully captured the changes and in construction cost uh also I think the back to the forecasting piece on that uh that was used about the analysis on that bond we we didn't see that one percent work so um we do I think uh when I project revenue uh in our budget cycle, I'm not forecasting one percent growth in in our accounts.

In fact, I showed Jen yesterday and the assumptions that I make, I'm using like a tenth of a percent.

Uh and our consultants use a quarter of a percent.

So I'm even more conservative from that aspect.

This is just the kind of follow-up analysis that usually doesn't get our attention every you know, it's like uh Netflix uh raised my uh cost a dollar and a half a month, and I go, oh, okay, and then months compound and everybody else is raising their their fee by a dollar fifty.

Holy smokes, I didn't re-budget this, didn't we?

Yeah, yeah.

And so if we kind of think that easily we easily lose visibility on that's that's what we want to make.

And I just want to give kudos to Peter, you know.

I've been working with Peter in this capacity for you know a couple years now, and I think it was very early on, you know, Peter set us laser eyes on there's a structural problem here, and um I think we're really we're yeah, we're very committed to transparency there, transparency on what what what didn't work out, what we've learned, and I think then that's why you see us proposing what I think will be a more sustainable future.

We given the current conditions and our current capacity right now.

So, where is everyone sitting?

We need some direction on where we're sitting what scenario would you hear to well.

I thought I heard general support for scenario too.

I mean, I I don't know if you all read Reb Gamba's email.

Maybe um so I I'm leaning to a scenario too, but I would like to maybe even get with him and see what because he thinks it might be a better way to know.

So I'm curious as to what if he has maybe thought about this as well.

I think about lease's point, like we see your implicit point, but there will be times when interest rates are better.

And saying that for now, as we wait for interest rates to get better, this is what we do.

Um, but realizing that bonding might be uh potential in the future to see more of those large things.

I also think like we talked a little bit about our current like stocks that we have at 0.2 percent city can raise that to 10% with the permission of the voters.

Oh that you have to cover voters now.

You did not when Milwaukee enacting.

And if like there are like you're talking about Council Plus Radi.

If there are large projects, you just did a huge TSP process.

If there are large projects that people want to see, I think that's a great like throw to the voters and let them decide if they want to see these projects built and pay a little bit more if they don't.

And I think that's I'm fair to, or I'm happy to throw things to voters and let them decide what type of city they want to live in.

I think that's a great thing we can look at in the future too.

That's also for transparency, you know.

So we we wanted to bring this.

This is a big enough programmatic shift.

We wanted to bring it separately.

But last night your quack, the community utility advisory committee met and they looked at revenue projections across utility funds.

So we're working on the rate, the rate kind of design and and ideals for for all those utilities, and then you'll see this in the context of water and sewer.

And so again, we're not asking you to say it's this where those are the rates going to the fee schedule tonight, but just that direction for the program.

And under this scenario, it sounds like because of the water work, we're not placing any layoffs.

We have so much work.

Yeah.

And like, I mean, this is showing like only like the safe program is really been too for us.

We still have Stanley that has to go.

That's you know, we're working with the county.

We have, I mean, uh King Road's gonna cross over in that area, a little bit of fiscal year, finishing that up.

Um we're doing what uh what is it we're doing?

The green way.

The green way, the greenway projects, right?

All of those are gonna come through on this next biennium.

Like we have more than enough work to get through this biennium as far as that goes.

There is nothing.

Because I mean, when when we did the first um tranche and bonding, it was higher up, it was higher.

You know, we we build a new office with we also have quite a few studies that are gonna start happening in this next biennium, um, looking at the intersection in Harmony Lake Railroad, that's a 750,000.

Yes, we'll hire a consultant, but you still need staff to be able to look at that.

Whatever's gonna happen with our Kellogg dam removal, that's staff time that need to review all of those documents through there.

That's a project that's gonna go all the way through the next biennium.

Um lots, we have lots of lots for.

So I thought I saw in your staff report that logus.

We had some idea for a scaled back logus.

Yeah, so right.

Yeah, so what I want to do with LOTUS is right now it's a bundled with several projects.

So it's got a bunch of water work.

I want to pull that water, it's not on Logus, it's just a project we bundled with things around Logus.

So I want to strip that out and just do Logus from 43rd all the way to Stanley.

Now the project in the CIP goes from 43rd to I think 49th, where we actually need sidewalk, but the um Cops of School grant that we got for that area had some additional things that we can pick up, not big things, but like way finding signs, markings, maybe uh um speed table type of thing that I would love to pick up.

So then love is from 43rd all the way to Stanley would be complete, where we're tying in to um our project on Stanley.

So that um is a smaller project we could do in-house.

So it'd be a designer in house with money.

Um we would be looking at starting that, I think about nine, maybe 29 is what fiscal year starting that process.

Um, so it's in this next um CIP would probably start in the next buy-in.

We might start design slightly, just because if I got staff that are you know needing some work, we could start that design and give them plenty of time to do it.

But still heard you out that hey, this is an important project.

We've been talking about it, but how we can do is we can kind of strip it back down.

The work on 40 uh 40s would be different, the work on 42nd is eventually gonna get looped into that Harrison um project, which we did hear back.

And the attorney's reviewing to see if we can sign the agreement.

Wow.

So if we can sign that agreement, then we will be moving that project part, which is the safety assessment looking at 99 all the way 42nd through the yes curve to 43.

Wow.

So I know this is a lot, but we're also staff will start looking at governments that we can go after, right?

And we can get free money.

So that's another opportunity there.

If we feel like we have capacity to look at other opportunities, um, we're searching for the federal dollars that we're gonna need for Heroeson because it's gonna be for money.

Another big rap that'll bring something back, right?

Yeah.

One question with scenario two.

You've got 300,000 for each of the two different markets.

I know that the current spot program has not spent it's 350,000 if you allocated them this biennium.

There were questions of will that money roll over, what does that look like?

What are the thoughts about that as you build next Biennam's budget?

And is there any flexibility that might happen to give them something that they didn't spend this cycle for grants cycle?

I think they're gonna have a really hard time spending the 300,000.

Um, but it is a new program that they've set up.

Um so I did inform them that that money doesn't just roll over.

We have a budget cycle that needs to be approved, and I let them know that there were is we have a dedicated fund that we are proposing for the next budget cycle.

Um I thought it was closer to 200,000, but um that might change slightly.

We're still working on numbers and things like that.

Um, but the thing that we are showing the CIP is that they are getting money actually each year, yeah.

And it's past it's not even just in the CIP for the next six years.

So I think that's that that brings a little bit of stability versus the last time we only put 350,000 in this biannium that was eight.

Yeah, okay.

And if they start spending it, I think there could be an adjustment that we could uh potentially do.

Yeah, I mean the some of the dollars that might if they're underspend like right now in our budget forecasting that's it would be more we're we're assuming that all that money is being spent if it's not spent, we need you know, as we're wrapping up our budget and you know, say maybe we're budget development where we would probably adjust those numbers to perhaps include maybe include that if it's if it's feasible, you know.

You know, that uh the program, the spot program is uh it's resource intensive.

It takes time from staff, it takes time for people PSA to go through and evaluate those projects.

It's a project, right?

Even though the tech's running it, it's still time multiple time on my staff.

So it is still a program with like even a bigger program sometimes because you've got multiple people that you're working on.

Yeah, but the answer is it doesn't automatically roll over.

Yeah, any of them just becomes you know, part of the balance going forward if you do buy an image and be like the you know, the the assessments at that point about whether we want to plug it back in there or we need to use it somewhere else.

Is that correct?

Yes, correct, absolutely.

And I would I mean, I would almost have my other program versus the spot program because there's a limit of what they can do, like there's spot improvement and you know um certain certain things require engineering design work because we don't really have a budget to go out and get a packaging to do it and install.

Yeah, can you just briefly because we do need to move on to our last gender item?

But um, can you just briefly talk about what projects we're doing this um you know modified pay as you go?

What projects from the original save list are not getting done or not getting done until after 2030?

So it's international park, not park avenue.

We had it in the other speed.

No, we have the park and we'll park there's a park something low growth.

Well, in New York, it'll grow to be able to do something like that.

Old field um the other half of love it, like other parts of other parts of Logus before you international way of away, showing it's uh it'd become page five of the sample board.

Oh it says deferred status.

Some of those might get done before 2030, like logus is an example, but yeah, okay.

Um disappointed about presentational weight getting included down, but we do want to be the it'd be after Arden Wall, so like yeah, after Arden Wall South, it would probably be the next kind of big one that I would see how how would we fit that in.

Um, but you're right, that would that's gonna be probably after 2030, yeah, maybe in 32.

And once we found additional money somewhere, right?

Like there's yeah.

Okay, so everybody's good with the staff recommendation up there.

Yeah, I'm seeing that okay.

And I could change our mind.

I'm just saying that's that at least gives us some direction on the scale in the CIP.

Okay.

Thanks.

Yeah.

All right.

And then uh it's uh council president and council coast or body are gonna talk about ranked choice voting.

You would like to get on.

No.

Um this is more of a check the public council and see what we're gonna do.

I guess start with the premise.

Um, in 2024, we voted on measure 117 as a state to implement some type of ranked choice voting system statewide.

It happened at the same time that Portland was having its first ranked choice um election, and I think that caused a lot of confusion and challenges with the measure statewide, get also had interesting carve outs, like the state legislature was not subject to the ranked choice voting, but statewide elected offices were so not quite a true ranked choice system, but in some ways a proxy to see more or less how residents feel about ranked choice voting.

Um and Milwaukee is one of the few jurisdictions across the state where this passed.

I went back and I'm trying to leave data passed by about five percent.

Um, and since then, there have been a variety of podcasts.

Uh, the mayor sent one.

Um, there also very ironically uh was one on Think Out Loud Today, if you want to go back and listen to it, um, that talks a little bit about just different voting systems that places are doing.

Um, and I like the one today kind of talked about how across Oregon cities, there are a lot of different types of voting, and like Oswego or Wilsonville or just newly Oregon City, they do block voting, or you can vote for you have two votes, you vote for two in a city like Milwaukee.

We have specific districts, and so you vote like that.

There are some like Portland that have more bells and whistles to their system.

Um jurisdictions, Benton County and Provallis famously does this is just a simple rank choice voting for a single person.

So if you preserve Milwaukee system as opposed to just voting for one person, you would rank your preferences for all the people each position.

Um I think that you don't have to rank all of them if you don't want to.

You don't have to rank all of them if you don't want to.

Um, but aside from the specifics of any type of system, I do think that there's real benefit in a rank choice voting system.

And I think that a majority of Milwaukeeans indicated that they agree somewhat with that premise.

You're able to get a more representational democracy and see people who reflect the preferences of a majority of voters who get elected to these positions.

Um, and I think also as we move to seeing more and more people getting engaged in the city, a ranked choice system means that there's no wasted votes in a system where you have just first passed the post, there's a real incentive to have two candidates who run and face each other.

Um if any other candidates that you're voting on that don't really aren't that viable, your vote is not really getting counted in the meaningful way versus a ranked choice voting system that allows multiple candidates to get into a race, and there's not that pressure to just have a race of two candidates.

Um I think the larger question is um that I want to pose to our council and see where I put my efforts is is this something that we would be interested in putting on the November ballot to put to Milwaukee voters to see if they wanted to adopt some type of ranked choice voting system.

Um there are a few caveats that I'll add just for context before we do a pulse in more of a conversation.

Uh ahead of this, I talked to our county clerk to understand a little bit more about what this might entail.

Actually, implementing a system like this.

Um a few things that I got from her.

Um one, in terms of what our elections cost, there are organ regulations that kind of limit what elections costs.

So we might not see a large increase as city Milwaukee, but there likely would be like costs that would go to the clerk's office to change a system like this.

Um and so I think part of this is Milwaukee's changing voting system.

It might not be reflected in our balance sheet, but it might be reflected on the clerk's balance sheet.

So there are two asks that come from that.

One is a long implementation timeline.

It's something that we sent to voters and they pass in November.

It wouldn't be something that we do in the next election, or even maybe the next two or three elections.

You have a four to six year horizon to allow for time to months.

So another ask that the clerk's office kind of said um would be this is a financial asset.

She's having to undertake because of changes to an individual jurisdiction.

Um, that it's something that we kind of go to bat for their office when they go to the county commission to say we want a budget allocation for this.

That we're saying this is a system that we implemented, we support this allocation.

There are definitely cities who've got questions for you all.

Yeah, she definitely does our results.

So it's the ballot counting um software is slightly different for this rank choice system.

So they'd have to get a different software to be able to do that.

So I think you're showing resources, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And did she say whether other cities are talking to her about this?

So this was the last component of what her ask was.

Um to check in with other cities and to do two things.

One is to see if other cities would be interested in changing to the system, and at the very least, finding some type of shared understanding of what a rank choice system is.

Because there are a lot of different that software that I mentioned you, Councilor Rasse, can be different across different voting schemes.

If you're doing brain choice voting like um Multnomah County is versus rainfalls voting like the city of Portland is, those are different types of um machines that you have to use.

And so her ask was if you are implementing a ranked choice voting system, if other cities can go along, that's great.

And at the very least, if other cities in the future go along, that they adopt a similar ranked choice model.

Um I think also I just want to make sure that I'm representing her position well.

She is a nonpartisan office, was not trying to weigh in on how our citizens should be voting one way or another.

Um, just wanted to kind of detail out the um from her office just the administrative view of what they should be doing.

So is I talking kind of imply preferences?

I want to make sure that I'm not doing that to put her in an uncomfortable position.

Um, she was just trying to detail up some of the things that were happening.

Um, so when I say we talk with other cities to find a ranked choice voting scheme that makes sense for them one day, it's not that she's endorsing one system or another.

Um you heard in C4 or any other conversations of other cities?

So I called around to other cities.

I don't want to put them on the spot here on the record, but I didn't hear any cities who wanted to in November explore something like this.

I heard some cities who said um maybe one day down the line we would consider something like this, but this isn't a priority right now.

Can you include us in the conversation?

But we likely it would not be a cross-county, um, everyone puts a rank choice voting measure on their ballots.

Um, but it would possibly be if we wanted to be that follower of a system of ranked choice voting, we could convene a table that kind of sets a county standard that other people get to see what the process is like of identifying what a rank force scheme looks like voters um and see that's the stop saying scheme, please makes it sound horrible.

The question today is not about any specific type of rank choice voting.

Um it's more of a pulse track of like, is this something that we would be interested in exploring, putting to voters in November with a long time horizon and all the other things that it said would be important thing.

Um conversation we should continue to have and refine to give to voters is an option.

Well before we did that, because I'm interested in ranked choice voting.

I do like it.

And I do think it also helps those lesser-known candidates who may not have the two majority parties, you know, backing them, you know.

Um, so I think I think it gives more platforms of those candidates because some of them are absolutely good candidates.

Um but uh I'm curious if if this could be maybe an engagement walkie survey prior to like a ballot that we can see, kind of is there another way to gauge the city's interest without having to pull on a ballot because a ballot makes it yeah, so I mean, uh part of that was the temperature.

I get what you're saying, where you're getting that that information from, but yeah, you know, I think with where things are, I'm curious because there are some factors where it may be a cost more potentially.

Um, I mean, and I think the um yeah, I mean, the places where you're running partisan elections, it helps open it up for independence.

That's not what it does for nonpartisan too.

Yeah, trust me.

I would think so.

From my own experience in 2020, yeah, when I didn't have support of either party, because it was a nonpartisan position.

Um, I got drowned out because I didn't have party resources.

Yeah, so if people would have maybe had a better choice to rank me, maybe I would have done a little bit, performed a little bit better, or at least would have had a little bit more uh turn.

See what I'm saying?

As opposed to did you have more than one opponent?

Yeah, I have four that year in 2020.

Wow, okay.

And then all of us were back by a party.

Right.

Um, because that is the thing about a rank choice voting only matters when you have three or more candidates.

Oh, and then that's pretty rare around here, but it's not it's not there.

I mean, I haven't been lately though.

We haven't seen it.

It's been busy really.

I feel like I've been since 2020, I think.

There's been no three-person race, I don't think, since 2020.

I think the challenge is also in a system that rewards two candidates running against each other.

Do people decide not to run because they see two candidates are there already and they don't want to be a third name on the ballot.

So I think that there are two things that are happening.

One is I continue to see people more and more engaged in civic life here in Milwaukee.

And I think that's really exciting.

I have heard a lot of people who talk about being interested in running for council one day.

Um, then you're totally right.

When we open up filing, it's often a name or two names.

People just don't feel comfortable putting their name off of these positions.

And I think a system like this, not a scheme, uh, helps people feel possibly more comfortable putting out putting their name out doesn't preclude someone with their same body's getting updates.

That is an interesting point though.

Well, you're right.

There hasn't been a race except for my that's more than that's I was gonna say in my recollection, Mark Gamba had one race where there were two where there were three candidates, and then your race in 2020.

And in the last dozen years, that's the only race with more than two people.

Yeah, these race group based for that.

That's what it was my that was my that's his rights.

But yeah, that that's that's a good point.

I didn't really think about that.

Maybe maybe I'm confusing with how many people had expressed interest, and then maybe I dropped out.

I think because of the variables here.

Um very confusing, you know.

Uh about what this really is.

And um, so I think that there's uh there's a huge you know, education effort if you go this route.

And um it sounds quite even if we didn't get beyond that, and you know it seems like there is being a lot of work, especially if we're thinking over the role is first movers.

Who's gonna do all this work?

Who's gonna do all this research about um you know trying to pull down these various I mean if we just go outside are interested in right choice voting, I'm not sure how people respond.

I don't I don't know about how I that's all it is.

You didn't have to have some more beat on the phones.

So I think if you know if you if you weren't to put it on a ballot, you'd have to have some sort of you know you know um option or maybe a couple of options, but you know, but unit cases so that people understood it.

It just sounds like a lot of work, and I don't know who's gonna do all that work.

So to make this a first mover, you know, process councillor Sam Jordan thoughts.

Um I'm a no for November, but I think that there are two options for policy analysis that would get you the input that you need that's at a countywide level, um, or even similar size city level around the state.

One would be um a possible possibly approaching LOC around a policy committee to see if this is an issue that would be included at that level of conversation.

The other would be if C4 would adopt a special committee where the cities across Clackamas County could have an in-depth discussion about a model, and then I think that it would make more sense for that model to be presented to the cities as a ballot initiative that would go on at the ballot at the same time across multiple jurisdictions.

Yeah, I really like that forum because I think the challenge that I've seen in talking to cities, it a dream system like this in Clackmas County would be you put it to voters across different cities at the same time.

That makes it much easier for the clerk's office.

Um that seems like a much more way to put this folded.

It would also give you a lot more education time, um, which would be needed to be able to put more voters because it is a really complex um model.

There are multiple models they've seen implementation in um other jurisdictions that are close to us, but um not without criticism.

And I think that might work against an initiative like this.

So interesting to talk to Portland.

Yeah.

I um I think what's ironic is the place that it's probably most useful is in the county races and the county commission races, right?

Because they have this non-partisan, you know, early primary system, and and then two go forward.

Whereas if they did ranked choice voting, they could just have one election, right?

Yeah.

Um, so I mean, I do like the suggestion of a countywide conversation.

And uh and and I also too.

I mean, there might be some I'm not wetted to a November ballot.

I just want to say that.

I do like, I think this is a good sad thing.

The the downside to all of um the rulemaking from ODAC is that we can't have conversations like this as easily.

So this is a good melding of the minds where I have a better sense of how we could go do something going forward.

Um be in front of the little dog say, I mean, and our county clerk knows this as well because she used to work for the other county.

Um, but go talk to Multnomah County because when they were implementing ranked choice voting, um they actually brought in uh like jurisdictions from all over the country um that would help them stress test uh uh like a trial run.

And so they've learned a lot through that, and I think that they would be really open to talking to you about it.

Yeah.

And they're doing their first one next year, right?

Portland did it already, right?

Right.

But they have but that's we had to count all of the they had to run two different machines.

Yeah.

Different jurisdictions, the how big Portland is and uh just created the conversation and uh I think that RCV the matrix frame and the nuances of what do you what do you mean by RCV.

Conversation there needs to be had with the community for sure.

This could easily uh trigger some sort of a uh charter reform because if you're gonna start looking if you just applying RCV to the current four at-large positions we have, that's one thing.

But if you go down any other nuances, you would probably want to look at the charter and do away with the positions, and you can just say top four win.

I mean, but that requires a charter discussion and sort of a different interesting yeah, in a lot of respects, that's the only in my view of maybe that's that's that's that's how it would work.

But but again, then that's chart change.

Yeah, and every every city's charter will be different.

So you can't have like a one strength.

Look at Doctor Who episode.

I just know there are some people who want to eat between and we have an executive session.

Yeah.

Oh, we oh, yep.

So I think we have a ways here.

No for November, but pursuits.

Yeah.

Do some research on it now.

We'll talk to some people.

Yeah, adopt it.

Uh I'm happy to bring it up in mayor's meetings too.

Um but C4 seems like a good point.

Okay, so with that, uh after this work session, council will meet an executive session pursuant to Oregon Revised Statutes 192.6020 to consider matters relating to the safety of the governing body and the public body staff and volunteers and the security of public body facilities and meeting spaces.

And with that, this procession is adjourned.