Let me call to order the special town council meeting for this Tuesday, September 9th, 2025.

Item number two on our agenda is public comment.

If there's anyone here for public comment, please come forward.

All right.

Seeing no one for public comment.

Item three is executive session for personnel one.

Item one is consideration of applications to serve on the Board of Zoning Appeals.

There's one vacancy.

Two is consideration of applications to serve on the planning commission.

Three is consideration of applications to serve on the historical commission.

Four discussion of a personnel matter regarding the conduct of an individual serving on a town board.

Do we have a motion to go into executive session for the reasons stated?

So move.

Let me read this before we vote.

Council may take action on any item including any subsection of an item of any item listed on an executive session agenda or discussed in executive session during a properly noticed meeting.

All in favor of going to executive session for the four reasons stated, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

Motion carries.

We are in executive session.

Yeah.

I never been there either, but I mean, I should say.

That's what a busy day.

Oh, maybe if I can't get some more code.

Yeah.

Yes, we can get this out there.

I'm sorry.

Is any questions?

Yeah.

So I have some things.

Yeah, we don't do this up to that.

So I forgot that's the very thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Um just does this.

Um good ones, four.

Yeah.

So is the breakfast.

But it is probably what they're also like forward out there.

I think they got one, I think personally.

Oh that's one program.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, so our key is all right.

Yeah, we can out everything else for accessories.

Something about it.

Um, I think I tried to have it.

I think it's true.

This is not great.

I can't stand that.

Yeah, that's what we have to do.

So yeah, so we can do that.

So we get a little bit more to change.

That's where we're having to push like the Central Funny as well.

They're trying to check that one.

Um just putting forward.

Yeah.

So the one where we just the exit engine for six meeting is anything else being a one because probably that would be something.

Yeah, we just sat there and scared at the top.

And is everybody trying to try and think of two and both the answer like this?

And they just allow them.

It was just chaos.

Two and a half hours.

Like we use the circuit going everywhere.

Did you use calls out of that?

Like we got it easy.

Oh, there's nothing that we can see.

Oh, that's what you should do.

So we were like do that, we call out.

Yeah.

But I know we get there.

But it's so funny when I started working here.

I was working on the road.

Yeah, it's in code.

That's what we have to do with the app.

They had one pass at least we can have it to catch you in the least one of the air left for the same program.

So pretty funny.

Yeah, we're going to park it all the time.

Well, if you're window for a little bit longer, I realized that they're actually working very interacting.

Yeah.

So the point is what happens.

So it does that.

Yeah.

Um software.

Uh resolved.

Steps to that here as well.

Uh sixteen o'clock third day.

It's just a tree.

So we can talk for the trouble in broadcast software.

So you can put some of the things.

It's fairly simple, and I could definitely do the exact things work, but um just know it after you guys were smart.

So they can also stay with the transfer cards that's so screen.

Not fire the side of that.

Yeah, that's why we're just out of the way.

It's got a display shift and it's yeah.

So EMS like right.

So I'm gonna have to perform I'd like it, but it's not reporting.

Um they have uh function something like that.

Oh, they're just water.

Apparently, I was like we came up with that over here.

Oh, yeah, the red headed company.

Yes, there was like drinking areas that you feel like you could have like signs on the trees and the marines couldn't go in there.

Of course, when marines do much the always look better.

I don't do this.

I tried to get part of that.

That'll make it better.

Uh really well.

We just checked it out.

Oh, just something for sure.

That's most of those cars we have in the end box as well.

I mean, I think it's like maybe hold on.

Um, uh exploration, special storage storage.

Oh, yeah, it's a lot of cost.

We've got some I could have been back.

The resale house long.

Well that's right, that was like long.

Like the eavers.

I could get one.

I thought I'd put it in.

Yeah, it's not better than something that's light.

I don't know if it's a good thing.

So we got two I think that very much.

So like now we get that.

So these are not sure.

Um that's why you have like saying one years back that's just a lot of people.

I think we have to say, right, right.

And then the right hard one.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

So we're going to definitely tell you.

Yeah, well, it's fire.

We actually want to actually work.

We both have to look all slide about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

So that's why it's not like three years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I just see all three.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, we've got this off.

I think that's true.

It was weird when I heard that.

You are probably not right to think it's one of the key here like the air like you're like, oh yeah.

I try to jump.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

They were figuring out how they were going to tell.

And so yeah, that's what we did calls like.

But yeah.

So when it's chip pocket called anymore.

And he's like, no.

Later.

So that was what's called just called it.

So it's like shock.

Yeah.

Wow.

I was saying I was probably cut to talk about two grabs.

We just got some part of where you're driving breakfast.

We don't think that's gonna bring an hour and a half before they exist on the chair and go.

I would say all the dollars.

Yeah, though, but parking lot there are always linked.

Yeah, now they got you too.

But I thought that was a good sign.

Oh no, I was going to do it.

And he had pulled somebody out of the show.

Yeah, but very right here.

Yeah, so often.

No, no, no.

Yeah, so that'll probably go back to work.

Yes, thank you.

How did you out here?

Yeah, we'll think we're card.

Still meaning this one.

Um, yeah, I just got that one.

I don't think it's a lot of small years.

Well, we get out of the head.

Right.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, it's very good.

Yeah, but I wouldn't be able to do that.

I believe that was a good thing.

Okay, so we'll get it.

I think that's all that's working.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so there's two.

I'm so glad she's going to be able to do that.

I mean, we're talking about the bad thing.

I think you're already highlighted.

Yeah.

All right.

Um, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

So there's a full case.

I mean, I've heard that.

I wanted just to be on my cell.

Well, it's shipping.

Uh no.

Um again before you push that.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, like so far.

Make more money.

Thank you.

That's why I said that's the most important.

That's good.

Oh yeah.

I think Hannah's already might get two.

No, Jake is sick tonight, so I should have said that earlier.

Where's where's Gary?

If everyone would have a seat, we're going to reconvene from executive session, please.

Yeah, we do.

All right, we have reconvened from executive session.

No action was taken, no votes were cast.

Um do we have a motion any motions to result from the discussions in executive session, please?

Chapman.

Okay.

Um for the position on the historical commission.

Second.

All right.

We have a motion and a second to appoint Georgette Rivera to the historical commission.

Is there any discussion?

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

She is appointed.

Next, please.

I move to appoint Andrea Corneck to the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Any discussion?

All those in favor, please say aye.

All right.

Ms.

Cornick is appointed to the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Uh next, please.

For Planning Commission.

So I'd like to move to reappoint Brett Bennett to the planning commission.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

Mr.

Bennett is uh reappointed as uh reappointed to the planning commission.

He is currently serving as chair.

Are there any other motions?

Yes, sir, Mr.

Chair.

Um I'd like to make a motion to remove Deidra Kennedy from the tree task force a board member.

Is there a second?

Second.

Is there any discussion?

Ms.

Hyatt.

Um I would I am not in favor of removing the board member.

Um we haven't even heard from Ms.

Kennedy or spoken with her about the situation.

And um I would not approve removing a member of a board that's a volunteer at this time.

Yes, sir.

I'm also not in favor because uh we've not heard from Mrs.

Kennedy.

Any others?

I agree with those two comments.

I think before uh anyone is tried and found guilty, they should be heard from.

I don't think there's been any due process in this.

And um for the record, Ms.

Kennedy was on her own property, not representing the town, and um there's certainly a precedent for um people's free speech uh as members of this uh esteemed body um have learned and um benefited from and she was exercising her first amendment rights on her own property to protect her own property, and um I will not be voting to remove her.

Any other comments?

If not, I'll ask the clerk to call the roll Mr.

Brownstein Yes, Mr.

Brownstein votes yes, Mr.

Chapman.

No, Mr.

Chapman votes no Ms.

Hyatt, no, Miss Hyatt votes no, Mr.

Icafano.

Yes, Mr.

Icafano votes yes, Mr.

Rambo is absent, Mr.

Santos No.

Mr.

Santos votes no, Mr.

Tinky.

No.

Mr.

Tinky votes no.

Ms.

Whitley, no.

Ms.

Whitley votes no.

Mayor Haney.

No.

Mayor Haney votes no.

There being no further business before this body, we stand adjourned.

We will reconvene at six o'clock for our monthly meeting.

Okay.

Was it a good question?

I haven't met this problem.

Yeah.

I I don't know if it's a house.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not sure if you didn't.

Okay.

Yeah, I don't put any of the questions.

Yeah.

Speaking of saying fire basically.

That's right.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

Should be a pretty much meeting.

I think too much.

Um but like I'm not sure.

Right, so there are we this is used.

Got so many of them.

Yeah, that property is a nice property, man.

Before we start, is Chaplain Guild here?

Chaplain Guild.

No.

Do we have a volunteer to do the invocation then?

Okay, thank you.

Not to put you on the spot or anything, but just a second.

Madam Clerk are we past six o'clock.

All right.

Let me call us to order.

Let me call to order the Tuesday, September 9th Town Council meeting for Mount Pleasant Town Council.

It's good to see everyone here.

Thank you for being here.

And please introduce yourself to everyone and do our prayer folks.

Well, to those who might know, might not know, I'm Pastor Thomas Dixon.

I'm the associate pastor of Life Community Church over here in beautiful uh Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.

And it's an honor and privilege to be here and to be asked to say a moment of prayer in opening here.

Thank you very much.

So let's stand for the prayer and after that the pledge, led by Mayor Pro Tim Whitley.

With all heads bowed in all hearts and minds clear.

Father, we thank you, Lord, for the blessing of another day to get thanks and to serve you.

As we serve our community, Lord, to serve you.

And for this meeting tonight, I pray your blessing over it.

I pray that your your heart be the heart of all of our public servants who are present and that all of the constituents here also come with that same heart of service to you.

Because it's only through you will everybody be served.

I pray this prayer.

I ask this blessing in our Savior's name.

Amen.

Pledge.

Congratulations to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you very much.

Item number three is approval of the agenda.

Do we have a motion, please?

So moved.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

The agenda is approved.

Item four is public hearings, awards, and presentations.

First, we will start with business appreciation week proclamation.

Mrs.

Hyatt.

Okay.

I'd love to invite uh Ms.

Rebecca Eimholes and Karina Garrison from our Mount Pleasant Chamber of Commerce, if they could come up and join me here for the proclamation.

Thank you, ladies.

Okay.

All righty.

Whereas the town of Mount Pleasant is a business-friendly community that would like to show appreciation to the individuals that do business here and contribute to the growth and economic health of our community, and whereas the local economy of Mount Pleasant is stimulated by businesses that create jobs and employment opportunities, allowing citizens to earn money, support their families, and thus reinvest in the community.

And whereas the town of Mount Pleasant supports the entrepreneurial spirit by being a commit community that not only welcomes new businesses but supports them by providing resources and offering assistance throughout the startup process.

And whereas the town strives to build and strengthen relationships amongst local entrepreneurs and business owners and create a supportive, open and encouraging business environment that is inviting and attractive.

And whereas the town of Mount Pleasant wishes to showcase and recognize the success of businesses within the community.

Now therefore, I, Will Haney, Mayor of Mount Pleasant, proclaimed September 14th through the 20th, 2025 as business appreciation week.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Hyatt.

Item four B is longevity awards.

I think we have three tonight.

Sounds good.

Mayor and Member.

Mayors and members of count members of council.

It is my honor to recognize Hillary Repick for 30 years of dedicated service to the town of Mount Pleasant.

Hillary began her career in 1995 as a custodian in the public services department.

In 1997, she was promoted to be an administrative clerk too.

In 1998, she became the town's first official stormwater manager, a position she held for about 24 years.

During those 24 years, Hillary grew and developed the town's stormwater program.

In her capacity, she interfaced with thousands of residents concerning stormwater issues and assisted in numerous stormwater projects around town.

She also started the town's National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, NPDES program, and oversaw the town's municipal separate storm sewer system MS4 permit.

Over the years, the stormwater manager position evolved into the stormwater manager slash stormwater division chief as the roles and responsibilities for the position increased, and she took on increased leadership and management responsibilities.

In 2020, the stormwater division was moved from the public services department to the new engineering and development services department, and Hillary served as the division chief there.

During her time in Stormwater, Hillary was actively involved in both the South Carolina Association of Stormwater Managers Managers, SCASM, and the Southeast Stormwater Association, CESWA, and served as the president of both organizations.

The town's stormwater efforts were also recognized as some of the best in the state and region with her at the helm.

In August of 2022, Hillary was promoted to be the operations officer for the public services department, which is the position she still holds today.

The position was originally created to serve as the number three position in the public services department, responsible for overseeing training, equipment, safety, and accreditation.

In this capacity, Hillary served as the accreditation manager for the department and was the driving force in ensuring that the public services department became an accredited agency by the American Public Works Association in December of 2023.

Hillary is serving as the department's operations officer and now has direct oversight of the grounds division and the waste management division.

Over the years, Hillary has been the project manager for numerous projects to include many infrastructure projects, the Whitehall Terrace Community Center, the Children's Circle Memorial, and she currently is the lead project manager for the Public Services Operations Center construction at Six Mile, which should be completed this coming spring.

Hillary's a walking encyclopedia of knowledge regarding the town.

If you have a question, I'll bet she knows the answer, knows where to find the answer.

One of the best things about Hillary is that she is so eager and excited to share this knowledge with her co-workers.

She is a great mentor, trainer, and teacher, and she's also always willing to jump in and help out with whatever needs to be done no matter what the task.

Hillary continues to have a great impact on the town, but also regionally and nationally.

She currently serves as the American Public Works Association, South Carolina Low Country Branch, President Elect, and is on the national accreditation team for the American Public Works Association.

Throughout all this, Hillary has still found time to be a wife, a mother of three, and a volunteer in the community, serving as a Boy Scout troop leader for many years.

Hillary's 30-year career reflects an unwavering commitment to public service, innovation, and this community.

Her impact on the public services department and Mount Pleasant's growth and resilience is immeasurable.

Hillary, you're awesome.

It is true.

Congratulations on 30 years of remarkable service to the town of Mount Pleasant.

Good evening, Mayor, Council members.

I'd like to ask SRO Temika Brown, 25 years of service to come forward.

Tamika uh began her service on September 5th of 2000 with Mount Pleasant Police Department.

She has served as a patrol officer, a waterfront park officer, and a school resource officer.

She's currently the Bell Hall elementary uh SRO.

She's worked at Wanda High School, Pinkney Elementary, Carrie Middle Carry O Middle School in East Cooper, Montessori.

Um anybody under the age of 20's probably had her as an SRO if they've lived in Mount Pleasant.

So the Bell Hill Elementary Assistant Principal Bramble had this to say about SRO Brown.

SRO Brown is the best resource officer we've ever had.

She has a positive relationship with all students, families, and staff.

She demonstrates the strongest professionalism and responsibility.

We are blessed to have her part of the Bell Hall elementary family.

I can't speak highly enough about Tamika.

Um it dawned on me.

Um she wrote with me for a very brief period of time when she was in training.

Um it's been amazing watching her career.

Um literally growing a lot growing up alongside her and uh detective niece in this organization.

Um this is what service and dedication looks like.

So congratulations on 25 years.

And Danny Nees.

So serving more than 25 years in law enforcement with the same community is a remarkable milestone.

It reflects resilience, dedication, and and deep rooted trust.

Such longevity is not only a demonstration of commitment to public safety, but also signifies the officer's role and anchor and stability and continuity, both through his colleagues and the residents.

Danny started one month after I did.

We literally have have kind of worked sided side by side.

Um he began in September of 2000.

Um his role or 95, rather.

Um serve as a patrol officer, a field training officer, hostage negotiator, harbor patrol officer, a member of the family crisis unit.

He's now in his second tour in investigations as a detective.

His first tour, we were in investigations together, worked a tremendous number of cases together.

He had a specialty working with children.

He has for many years.

Both of these uh individuals have worked with the children and the youth of this community for years and years and years.

Um he's helped to investigate numerous, numerous arrests, made countless cases ranging from shopliftings to homicide.

He is our veteran detective and the longest serving detective with the most experience.

Um he's been recognized on multiple occasions for volunteering with the public and community events.

So his sacrifice, I thank his family who's here.

Thank Tamika's friends and family that are all here.

Um we have colleagues past and present uh from the department that are here uh in support of both of these individuals.

So Danny, thank you for 30 years.

Um I'm gonna enjoy continuing to work for with you for as long as we're both here.

All right, did we complete the uh longevity?

All right, thank you very much.

Item five is approval of the minutes from the August 12th, 2025 special and regular town council meetings and the July 2025 financial statement.

Um, and just mark I I will uh abstain since I was absent for that meeting.

Uh move for approval, Mr.

Chairman.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor?

Aye.

Motion passes.

Item six is public comment.

If you're here to make a public comment when your name is called, please come forward.

Uh two and a half minutes.

Please give your name and address.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

First speaker, David Spedon.

David Spedden, 3429, Timmer Kiln Circle.

Good evening.

Every day, headlines, social media posts, and conversations with neighbor points of the same thing.

Charleston County traffic crisis is getting worse.

The system is failing.

Charleston County is ignoring the alarms.

We're one of the fastest growing areas in the state that ranked number one in economic growth.

But while our economy is booming, our roads are choking.

South Carolina's 2025 infrastructure report card improved from a D to a D plus.

The report makes it clear our biggest challenge is keeping up with the population growth.

So I have to ask, why are we not expanding Highway 41?

I've written two op-eds on this and provided you, the town council, a presentation factually outlining the road to compromise is the worst option to pursue.

I've also addressed the county council with Mayor Haney at the July Finance Committee meeting, and again at the August monthly council meeting.

I emailed our two county representatives offering to share my research on this.

One never replied, and the other one wasn't interested.

Highway 41 is not a back road.

It's a critical regional artery.

And it has become a daily source of gridlock danger and frustration.

Instead of fixing the problem, the county is pushing the plan that causes more harm than good.

The road to compromise or traffic diversion is a theory not rooted in a replica replicated factual success.

Highway expansion has a proven track record.

I've learned from our singular efforts are not effective, and we need the power of many to make an impact.

So tonight I ask that you take action.

I ask that you form a committee to build a unified response against the road to compromise.

Include smart growth 41, local HOAIDs, residents.

We can hold public meetings, present facts, and launch a petition that builds an overwhelming support to stop the road to compromise.

The destruction of Lara Hill Park alone gives us a powerful rallying point to build from.

But this effort must start here.

It must start tonight.

We need one of you to step up and chair and champion this cause.

I'll stand beside you.

I'll devote my time.

I'll even co-chair if that's what it takes, so somebody's not overburdened with additional workload.

But don't let another day, week, or month go by with frustration and inaction.

Make the motion, start the committee, leave the effort.

Let's do this together.

Thank you.

Mike Van Horn.

Good evening, Council Mike Van Horn, Iron Bridge Tribe.

I just want to let uh all the uh current candidates and also those that are running for office, uh, just as a reminder that October 16th from uh 6.30 until 9, we'll have a candidate forum right here at Town Hall.

That's welcome to everybody.

Uh we'll be soliciting questions from the residents throughout the community, and we'll have uh two moderators during that time as well.

The other thing I'd like to talk about uh during the committee meetings, uh there was the uh focus for the 2025 uh wage focus.

Uh and obviously everybody in town knows as far as the situation that happened with the uh recent uh home invasion uh for a resident and thank God nothing happened to those individuals in that household.

But I would like to see council take the recommendation of the money that we have that's sitting in the budget and also earmarked for other things, focus on our police force to make sure because you know we had the nutrition uh situation whenever obviously uh you know chief richie's now, Sheriff Ritchie left, and we had some individuals that left.

We've had individuals that have moved up into the ranks, so therefore we need to backfill with these individuals.

And we had $10,000 that was earmarked for the financial things as far as putting things online for transparency.

Uh there's $25,000 earmarked for pollinator or tokens uh throughout the community.

And also the big one, you know, if we settle the situation with uh Shem Creek as far as the parking garage, that's fifty thousand dollars a month approximately.

So there's plenty of money to put in towards the safety of this community.

So I hope the council will sit there and look at those situations to put the money where it belongs.

Thank you.

Kevin Coonane.

Here you go.

Kevin Cunane, uh doing the rest.

A few years back we told the mayor you will not attend 9-11 events and pretend you're supporting a refinement after you oppose line of duty cancer protection for firefighters.

Then afterwards, you also went against the simple memorial for 9-11.

Absurd.

Mr.

Mayor, when you try to keep off box closed and definitely during COVID, we told you that you will not do so.

When you became enamored with your perceived emergency powers, council let you know that you will not be the tyrant that you wanted to be.

Police and firefighter fire departments need better staffing pay and equipment, but you will not make them a priority.

You will not even look at the failing staffing model of the MPFD, even after a citizen death.

When our overworked police officers are held back from responding to a felony crime scene, we will not stand for it.

We also will not accept the mayor's whiny excuses for inaction.

By the way, Mr.

Mayor, where are you pulling the police from for the extra patrols you promised yesterday on social media?

What area will now have even less coverage?

When a citizen's pushing a boat, baby stroller and hit by a call, we will not stand for inaction.

When a robbery occurred on Highway 41, we will not stand for the skeleton cruise of police anymore.

It's time to wake up to what's going on in the size of this town.

Any of you ever thought about what that means?

How far they have to travel.

How many miles it is from where I live, say to here?

Well, and there's even more of the town past here.

My neighbor got killed in a fire because the fire department couldn't get enough crews there quick enough.

Plain and simple.

They work very hard, they do a great job, but there's simply not enough coverage in the fire department or the police department.

But that seems to be okay to a lot of you.

Definitely seems to be okay to the mayor, because he's had 10 years and hasn't done anything about it.

And I know for sure you all know you've heard it from me before.

You can't play dumb now.

It's time.

Wake up.

Something's got to be done on our police and fire side.

You sticking our responders in bad spot as well as our citizens.

Thank you.

Kurt Thomas.

Good evening, Mayor.

Uh County Council members, uh, fellow residents of Mount Pleasant, Kurt Thomas, 2956 MLAN here, Mount Pleasant.

Uh, my name is Kurt Thomas again.

I'm a uh proud resident here in Mount Pleasant.

I'm a father of uh a Marine.

I'm an Air Force officer with 21 years of experience, uh former state trooper with the South Carolina Highway Patrol and a small business owner.

I stand here tonight not only as a candidate for mayor of Mount Pleasant, but also a concerned citizen who loves this town and believes that we can we can do better.

Uh in conversations with parents and business owners and retirees and young families, I hear the same thing uh over and over.

Our citizens feel that their voices aren't being heard.

We just heard that earlier tonight.

Whether it's public safety, growth, infrastructure, or taxes, too many decisions are being made about us and not with things.

When leadership stops listening, trust, and I'm gonna repeat that again.

Trust breaks down, and we're seeing that now.

As a former state trooper of South Carolina, I understand what it takes to keep the community safe, but our police, firefighter, and EMTs cannot do their jobs, and that was just stated, cannot do their jobs without real support.

We must invest in training, staffing, and resources so that they can keep our neighborhoods safe.

Mount Pleasant is growing fast.

Someone just said it.

Mount Pleasant is growing very fast, but growth without vision creates problems.

Congested roads, strained schools, and increased pressure on our first responders.

Uh, we don't need, we need leaders who will listen and plan ahead with and put people before politics.

This isn't about one person or one election, it's about the future of our town.

Let's work together to restore trust.

And I'm just gonna say that say that one more time.

We need to work together to restore trust for our town.

Support those who protect us and make smarter decisions, safer decisions for our town here in Mount Pleasant.

Thank you for your time.

Ellen Moore.

Good evening, Mayor, Council members.

I am here tonight as a concerned citizen, um, hoping to be heard and questioning why you would rubber stamp a $60 million bond fund from Mount Pleasant Waterworks, and not encourage or consider any public input before you approve this massive bond request today in the consent agenda for the second and final reading.

This current two-reading governance model used by the town council is broken.

It is antiquated and 40 years old.

It needs to change to allow for citizen input before you make decisions and vote.

So today in this final reading, have you adequately scrutinized this request from Mount Present Mount Pleasant Waterworks, including their financials?

Um do you take issue at all with anything in their five points uh issues, um, like the six million dollar for a fleet maintenance facility when that construction has already begun?

Um I do.

I I think it's a little uh interesting that they're asking for that support more than a year after construction has begun.

Ultimately, our resident and tax dollars being used wisely in support of this debt, and how will our water bills be impacted?

Um I don't know about you, but my resident water bill went up seven and a half percent in July.

And what I see is um increase in personnel in their uh financial statements ended uh July of 2024, their personal costs went up 21%, expenses up 13%.

Revenues relatively flat at just about 3%.

So as taxpayers and homeowners in Mount Pleasant, how are Mount Pleasant Waterworks and their teams um controlling expenses?

Um Mr.

Crum indicated in his report that um the water fees are based on expenses, and he didn't know how water rates would be impacted by the new 20 million dollar aquifer that they propose to drill that will allegedly last us 20 uh or a hundred years or more, perhaps.

Um I would just ask you, how are you holding Mount Pleasant Waterworks accountable to carefully and judiciously manage and control expenses so that residents of Mount Pleasant are not paying exorbitant water bills to cover these expenses now and in the future?

Are there incentives in place?

And why the need for more staffing when water usage is relatively flat?

So I ask you to get tough.

Alex Scottel.

Good evening, Mayor Haney, members of council and neighbors.

My name is Alex Cattel, and I want to thank first of all the council.

I know this can be a thankless job, so just thank you for what you do uh every day, every month, uh serving our community, and and I truly appreciate that.

I grew up in Charleston, spent most of my time here in Mount Pleasant.

After a decade in Washington, D.C., my wife and I moved back to the Low Country to raise our family, first to Isle of Palms and more recently here to Mount Pleasant.

One of the things I've always admired about Mount Pleasant is that even though the city has grown, it's kept its character and it's exceptional people.

Since the incident in my home, I've seen the character demonstrated so clearly through the leadership of this city, neighbors helping lend a hand, and the response of the community.

He and Chief Arnold helped focus immediate attention on the most important thing for my family.

And the overwhelming number of friends, neighbors, and Mount Pleasant residents I've spoken to, which is hunting down and arresting this person who targeted our community.

I also want to thank the mayor for facilitating those connections and making this a priority.

The detectives for their professionalism and all of you on council for your continued focus on public safety.

On the morning of September 5th, an armed and massed intruder appearing to wear body armor and prepared for a deadly confrontation, spend five minutes inside my home while my wife and two young children were asleep upstairs.

What makes this most disturbing is not just what he took, but what he represents.

Someone willing to enter an occupied home in the middle of the night with families inside and move on to target other houses and vehicles in our neighborhood.

I want the public to understand how dedicated our officers are.

The police who responded to my home were willing to enter a house not knowing what or who they would encounter on the other side of the door.

That takes courage, and I'm grateful for their service and commitment.

Yes, what happened is frightening, but I want to be clear.

I am not afraid, and my family is not going to live in fear.

The person who came into our home should be the one living in fear.

Because they awakened a community that does not take this threat lightly.

Together with our police, we will send a message to anyone who threatens our town.

Mount Pleasant will hunt you down and bring you to justice.

What happened in my home was deeply personal, but was followed has been deeply encouraging.

Brazilience of our people, the dedication of our police, and the leadership from City Hall have shown me that this is still the same Mount Pleasant I grew up in.

A place where neighbors care for each other and where we meet challenges together.

I hope we can keep the spirit as we do our part to find this person.

Praise if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Dana Coleman.

Good evening.

My name is Dana Coleman.

I'm from the uh 10 Mile community, born and raised.

Uh, did the uh Jenny Moore Lang Wando graduated from Wando.

Um, and I just wanted to speak on what's coming up uh later on today.

If you annex the four properties that will be referenced here today, located in the 10 Mile Historic District, you will weaken the historic district.

You will provide a way for investors and developers to avoid the Charleston County Historic District process and save the dwindle to save the dwindling Gallagheachie communities and to avoid the 10 Mile Communities overlaid district.

You will contribute to the increase in the number of homes that have architecture and I'm sorry, that have architecture that is uncharacteristic of the community.

10 Ma became a historic district to preserve and protect the settlement patterns, visual appeal, home styles, and lot sizes that are characteristic of the community and allow a path for generations of descendants to be able to return to the community to live.

In addition to the overlay, the 10 Mile Distortic District is revising an area character appraisal, which documents the overall character of the community from lot sizes to how those lots are developed.

The types of homes that are characteristics as well as documenting those that don't fit the character and aren't compatible and aren't complementary to what was there before.

There are several initiatives in play to protect the remains of 10 mile.

Annexation will nullify all these efforts to protect this community.

Please deny the annexation requests and help us save one of the few remaining Gulligi communities left in East Cooper.

Thank you.

Paul Franklin.

Those who are unfamiliar with Exchange, we are a nationwide community service organization.

It's over 114 years old.

Our members give their uh energy to and their time and their uh financial resources to four key areas.

One is the prevention of child abuse, the second would be Americanism, which covers anything with uh first responder causes, uh, veterans issues, the third area is um youth uh academic scholarships, and the fourth is community service local issues.

The Mount Pleasant Exchange Club has been here since the 1940s.

Uh, we have a history of having business leaders, uh, city officials, um citizens that just care about our community as members.

We are actively looking to increase our membership here to make an impact in our community.

Um the chamber of commerce is having a business expo next Thursday, September 18th.

We will have a booth there on that same day from 3.30 to 6:30.

It's at the Omar Schreiner uh convention center.

We are gonna have a new member open house.

Uh we will have refreshments, um, hors d'oeuvres, beer and wine, anything to lure anybody into the meeting.

Um we just encourage everyone to come to learn about exchange and the impact that we can have in the community of Mount Pleasant.

Thank you for your time.

Larry Kabrowski, good evening.

It's an honor to be here.

I'm Larry Kabrowski, and I represent the East Cooper, a large part of Mount Pleasant and Charleston County Council, but I'm here not speaking on behalf of the council, but as an individual tonight.

And first I want to thank you for your leadership on Highway 41, and I want to apologize.

Um, the Mayor Haney and uh Councilman I can final came to our council meeting.

I don't feel you were treated with the respect that you both deserved.

I'm with you on that, and I'm a lonely voice on that.

Look to the elections and look carefully.

There's four seats open next week.

Maybe we can change that.

I believe that the it's best the community you represent the town of Mount Pleasant, and he couldn't have spoken louder, and we needed to listen and I'm an agreement.

I'm also here to speak about the annexations tonight.

Um I lived in East Cooper for 46 years.

We're all part of the same process.

I lived in Mount Pleasant, Isle Palm, Salton's Island.

My wife was from McClonville, her best friend from Charlotte who lives in Alendah.

So I see the big picture, and I asked you to consider that we have a historic districts there and protect something that's unique to be treasured in Charleston County and all of America is the historic settlement communities.

If you annex it, you will change the protections.

Right now, it's um one home per three acres.

If you annex it in, that changes to three homes per one acre.

You can do the math, and one of the biggest problems we have, East Cooper to preserve our quality of life is the traffic.

All that'll reverberate back to Mount Pleasant and affect us.

Not only will you be jeopardizing something through generations of blood, sweat, and tears has remained through all kinds of adversity, but you will be increasing the impact in our daily lives.

And anybody that goes north in Highway 17 knows right after you go to all the subdivisions that are um uh developed, you run smack into that.

That's where the I hope we can draw a line in the sand and don't do to Highway 17 North what's happened to Highway 17 South, because that was a gray area of uh where there wasn't the city of Charleston, the county, who knows what, the different towns there, and they've created a nightmare.

And I think one reason we've been more successful than West Ashley about containing traffic is we've had a town in Mount Pleasant that would never let happen here what happened West Ashley.

So I beg you to please consider and don't add to our um problems here by putting all those uh you would open the door to that's where developers are going, that's where the rubber hits the road.

Please don't annex that area and and change what we're trying to do there.

We're all in this together.

I again on this speaking as somebody who lives here wants to maintain a thank you.

That's all I have, sir.

Is there anyone uh who came to speak that did not get to sign up for public comments?

Yes, sir.

Hello, I'm Waring Howe.

I live at 118 Friends Street.

I live in the house that was brought home to at birth.

I uh, you know, an integral part of Mount Pleasant governance are elections.

We have elections exactly eight weeks from today.

Nine candidates for council for four positions, and then election for mayor.

You know, uh when you have that kind of group of candidates, it takes a little effort and concerted effort to get to know to that.

The candidates are essentially job applicants.

And you know, you want to know not only the candidate, you want to know the person.

You know, they're about uh five sort of basic questions that go to a person's profile.

Where do you live?

You married, got children?

What do you do for a living?

And those examinations conducted, and I know a little bit about examination being an attorney for 41 years.

You want to have as much of an opportunity to question a candidate to have them side by side, and a great vehicle for that are the candidates' forums that I heard mentioned you've got several scheduled.

I know of one October 7th that's here.

There are others, the chamber, uh League of Women Voters, uh, various civic groups, and then we have the candidates together like that.

You can compare and contrast.

For example, certain dichotomies can come up.

We've got one candidate who is a nurse anesthetist, and we have another candidate who owns vaping businesses.

One is for maintaining respiration, one is to harm respiration.

And when it comes to vaping, the debate about it is over.

It's flat out harmful.

So much so that this town has an ordinance banning vaping in almost all public places, thanks to an amendment to this anti-smoking ordinance.

With all his good reason and good sense.

He ran two years ago.

Perry War.

I'm glad he's here so he can hear my plea.

That back then it he did not attend any candidates forums.

And when asked what he did for a living, what was the nature of his small business?

Your time's up.

Sorry.

That was the beeper.

That was two and a half minutes.

Same as everybody.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, please.

Good afternoon.

Craig asked you from 10 Mile, Allendos, South Carolina.

987 Gadsonville Road.

Longtime business owner in Mount Pleasant.

I think we've been in business 57 years now.

I'm not that old, but we've been in business 57 years.

And I'd love to say that I served at least about 16 years doing school board work.

So I understand exactly what you guys are doing.

A little bit.

But it's thankless.

And I appreciate you guys taking the time to listen to all the public, well, both sides.

But I'm here today to represent 10 Mile, my community, where I grew up.

A traditional GalaGee community.

Found nowhere else in the world, but right here in Charleston County, Mount Pleasant.

Beautiful backyards, beautiful waterways and trees and the birds and the ecosystem.

No better.

But I want you guys to realize the impact of the zoning change that you can make.

And we could sit here tonight and think it's a small thing, but change is about small things.

And so I want you to try to keep some semblance of where you came from.

There's an African proverb or a saying called Sankofa.

You always have to look back so you know where you're going.

Family, faith, follow up.

The follow-up is reflection.

Look back a little bit, not too long, but look forward.

We need to keep something.

Can't give away everything now.

Keep something for yourself.

Thank you.

Jeremy Manchester 3133 Pingotelli Crescent.

Hello, Council Mayor.

Um I'm I'm the guy there talking about building 5,000 houses on 12 acres that's protected by wetlands.

Like it's a field, a pond.

I'm just trying to annex into Mount Pleasant.

I was given two options for zoning.

You know, like I'm absolutely willing.

I I talked to three of you guys.

I'm absolutely willing to change it if I can.

I think I one of the one of you had mentioned that I could go one house per one acre.

And I still don't even know if you could do that because of all the wetlands, but I'm I'm completely up for it.

I'm come I'm surrounded by Tupelo, like on two or three sides, which is 100% Mount Pleasant with all the with all the voters.

Um I'm not trying to obviously I don't have an attorney here representing me trying to pack my property up into 5,000 pieces.

That's not what I'm here for.

I'm just here to annex into Mount Pleasant.

Um get trash, get all you know, all the things that I'm used to at my at my house now and all the things that the 50 houses right behind me attached to my property currently currently dead.

So for all the folks on the other side of the road that have been here for 50 years, I've already butchered every corner, every block, every blade of grass.

That's not what I'm asking for.

Um if if I can do it, can I can you ask to go from can I ask to go to one acre?

I can't answer.

Oh, sorry.

Like see, that's the thing.

You can't you can't ask questions, you can't answer, but just so you all know.

I'm trying to get into Mount Pleasant.

My business is here.

I've got three kids.

Um house for one acre, even even a third.

Have you guys ever tried to manage a third of an acre?

I mean, it it it's a lot, but that's what I'm willing to do, like I said, just to get into Mount Pleasant.

That's that's what I'd ask for.

Surrounded by Mount Pleasant now.

If any of you guys want to come out to the property so you can see it for yourselves, more than happy to have you guys out.

Thank you much.

Um, and by the way, I I know it didn't work like that this week, but any time I've ever called the police, they've been Johnny on the spot, and it's not just one or two, it's like six.

Um, they've been there banged.

That's happened, even my office manager called 911 by accident.

Two guys showed up just to check in on her, and that was down on Vincent Street.

So, I mean, the guys are absolutely awesome.

So, sorry, my time's up.

Sorry, good.

Thank you.

Good evening, Perry at 2004 Brickcomb Parkway.

Uh, probably about two years ago, I came before council addressing the amount of time you get for public comment.

Um, we just had a gentleman here a minute ago um that was speaking and was a little disappointed.

He only got two and a half minutes.

Seemed like he wanted to go on for a little longer.

Um, so you know, uh, I would bring that back up again eventually that I think it'd be good that uh we relook at that uh again you hear for a lot of sentences tonight, and I think having that input, and I think you know, Mr.

Mayor and Mr.

Tinky and you know others that are supported by Mr.

Howe might want to have a little more time for him to speak.

So thank you.

Anyone else for public comment?

All right.

Public comment is closed.

This moves us to item seven, which is consent agenda items, which is final reading for an ordinance for the issuance and sale not exceeding sixty million for waterworks.

Do we have a motion, please?

For approval, Mr.

We have a motion to approve Mr.

Rambeau is sick tonight.

He is our uh water resources uh committee chair.

Um he would have been here.

We have a motion and a second.

Um let me just add that if there are any questions, um, waterworks is real well represented here tonight.

We have the general manager, we have the uh chief financial officer, and we even have the legal council.

If you have any questions, please avail yourself of their presence here if you if you feel like you have a question.

Yes, sir.

Excuse me.

Good evening.

How are you?

Honor to be here, Mayor and Council.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I I do have a couple questions.

Um I I did have a chance to to speak with with uh some elected officials, which was helpful to um help helpful to me.

Um I so what is the purpose of it coming to council?

Is the question like are are we your are you and you're a monopoly, and are are we your double check?

Is that what's and and maybe Mr.

Pagliarini can give us some history as well.

So why doesn't come to council then?

So Councilman Icofono, I appreciate that appreciate that question, and I appreciate you referencing our elected officials.

Uh just to be clear, the waterworks has five uh at-large commissioners, and two additional ex officio.

Uh the mayor sits on that as well as Jake Rambo.

So we go through our own process, um, very similar to you.

Uh we have two public meetings a month where the public is certainly welcome to be a part of that process.

Uh, this bond issuance has we have been discussing that for the last eight or nine months.

So it has certainly been available to the public.

We have made every opportunity to allow for public input.

The second component of your question, I would probably defer to your council um to ask unless you would like me to take an attempt at that or my council, because that becomes a very legal question.

What is this process?

We have had our commissioners, they have reviewed the information.

Um, they have voted on this process, and it is my understanding that town council needs to concur with that debt issuance.

Yes, sir.

Uh Mr.

Aquifano, I mean, as general matter, that's correct by law.

Town council is required to approve these bond issues.

Um, and that is the wisdom of our state system.

It's standard throughout the state, then standard throughout the state, but just to be clear, we do have our own board of commissioners that are elected.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then uh I did hear there's gonna be another bond coming soon as well.

Uh with 41.

Is that correct?

I would say that is uncertain.

The relocation work at this point is not clear.

Um, if 41 along with 526, uh, together, those relocation costs could push upwards of 20 plus million dollars for the waterworks.

Those are assets we have in the ground that aren't fully depreciated and that we do not plan on replacing but for the relocation work.

Depending on the timing of that relocation, you are correct.

Uh, we have programmed the money as a bond issuance to cover those relocations.

Depends on when they come, councilman Ikafano.

Thank you.

And then just and then on the rates, you look out for the next 10 years.

And that has been included with this bond.

The bond issuance is included in that assumption of the next 10-year rate increase.

Correct.

You know, as you're aware, there's there's really two ways to put pay for capital improvements.

You can pay go, we can pay with the rates this year with cash, cash fund that capital improvement, which we roughly fund 20 million dollars a year with cash, excess cash from revenues.

That would be that is the point of the revenue.

Um $60 million, obviously, if we were to cash fund those projects, you would see a significant rate increase.

Um the current rate increase that we just enacted July 1st of this fiscal year, roughly 3% of that is what covers this bond issuance, the $60 million.

There was reference made to the fleet facility that has already started construction.

Half of that facility is paid with cash.

We paid cash, cash funded half of that cost.

And you might ask yourself, well, why do we issue a bond for the other remaining portion?

Some of that is related to bond philosophy.

Why do we issue bonds at all?

Our assets will have a useful life of 50 to 100 years.

If we cash funded that, you and I would pay for that this year.

These assets last 50 to 100 years.

To me, it only makes sense that future customers pay for these assets as well.

So to minimize a sharp increase in peaks of rates, same reason the town issues bonds as well, is so that we can spread those costs out over the life of these projects.

This will be a 25-year uh maturity on this bond.

I have two more, so I'm sorry.

Uh so I'm gonna ask both time to save a little bit of time.

Um, where do we align on rates compared to other uh around municipalities around and I I do know when we expanded our um our facility uh for public works, uh one of the big things was maybe I'm lobbying you a softball here, but one of the big things was bringing maintenance in, being able to get the the trucks back on the road quicker.

What what what is what is the difference between what you're doing now and building the maintenance um facility?

Is it expand?

I I've been to your maintenance facility, which was very small and and old, yes, but um but so what's the difference so that the public understands that I guess excellent.

So two-part question um rates.

Rates compared to other rates compared to others.

So we do do look at a regional comparison that's very important to us.

What are our peers in our region paying?

We fall right in the middle of that bell curve.

Um so currently a 5,000 gallon customer, you're paying approximately $115 per month right now, and that is right in the middle of our regional peers.

Uh, your second component was related specifically to the fleet maintenance building.

Uh, we have had engineering groups provide us with an analysis, a fleet maintenance report.

Um, we will be saving approximately $30,000 per year by the construction of this facility.

You're right, Councilman Icofana, you have been to our single bay fleet maintenance facility.

Currently, we have a single bay that is undersized.

If you're familiar with the work we do, we have very specialized pieces of equipment.

We are having to drive uh an FY25 approximately all total, five thousand miles to receive maintenance on our vehicles.

We're taking them to North Charleston, some to Columbia, um, and that is also an inefficient operation with staff time.

Um, so there will certainly be the new facility uh will certainly be uh economically uh beneficial to the waterworks, and thirty thousand dollars a year roughly is that number.

Now, when you add the five thousand uh miles along with staff time not included in the thirty thousand dollar outsourcing fee, um that number goes north pretty quickly.

Thank you.

Um I don't know which one of you would want to answer this.

Would you share news about the uh bond rating?

Oh, wonderful.

I would be glad to, but since I have our CFO market.

I'm really proud.

This is a uh since you teed me up, Mayor.

Um you have been through bond ratings before, so you understand how long that takes and the work that that takes uh to achieve a bond rating.

That is when someone comes in, looks at your books, audits you, and then gives you the financial strength of your company.

Um I'm gonna let Mark answer the question of where we stand today, but understand that a lot of where we are is because of Mark's hard work.

Thank you, Mark Coffee.

CFO.

Um, and one thing with the bond issuance, the rating agents will generally call up to a surveillance call.

And last bond we have was 2017, and so I did call us last fall.

After about seven years, check on our stuff, ask questions, and in the middle of December, they upgraded us to triple A.

And we're one of the smallest triple A's in the nation, and we're the fourth in in South Carolina.

Good work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That also saves the ratepayers' money because you get a better interest rate.

Yes.

Mr.

Clum, could you uh uh discuss the benefits of having a deep well in an area that's uh tri-county area that's growing with a lot of pressures on the water system that we have and the water source?

Excellent, uh, Councilman Tinky.

The first thing that comes to my mind when we're talking about the expenditure of a large amount of money is how will this impact is this the right decision for our ratepayers?

Not today, but is it the right decision for our ratepayers tomorrow and a hundred years from now?

That new deep well will provide the source of drinking water for NPW for this community for the next hundred years.

We will be the only entity that has access to that aquifer.

We will be alone in that resource.

Right now we share the Charleston aquifer with other withdrawals, and the pressure is becoming more every day.

We have seen a permit reduction uh five years ago, upwards of 40% reduction.

Now, when you are a water utility planning for the future, planning for a hundred years, and your permit is reduced by 43%.

That is a concern.

So you ask yourself where will our water come from?

Our hope is it will come from the Grambling Aquifer, which is included in this bond issuance, a 20 million dollar new well to replace a failing asset.

So hopefully I've answered that question.

Thank you.

I would say we can't afford not to do this work.

That's how important these projects are to this community.

Yes, yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

Uh, and thank you, Mr.

Clum, for coming to to us today.

Um, I I've heard some comments from from residents regarding um the rates that they're paying, and I understand that there is a consequence of having the cheapest water in the area, and that is that water system is probably not reinvesting in its infrastructure.

Um but we do have folks in our community who have uh fixed incomes or financial difficulties and rate increases uh year after year make it difficult for them.

Um what do you have?

What, if anything, do you have in place to help those senior citizens or those people who are experiencing financial difficulties uh keeping their water on?

Yeah, excellent question, uh Councilman Brownstein.

The value of water is a story that I try to talk about as often as I can.

Um the quality of water, the quantity of water that a community has available to it really puts its fingerprint on the type of community you have.

Um, the water quality and quantity that we have right now is exceptional.

And I think as it relates to economic development, as it relates to the quality of life of this community, water is life.

Um we do have resources available.

We have a customer care fund.

Uh certainly that we assist individuals that can't afford their bill or that have fallen upon hardships.

Um so we do have that available as a resource.

That may be uh the answer to your question.

And uh the the second um question that I have is um what are y'all doing to control um personnel costs?

I think it was referenced earlier in public comment um regarding adding um employees over the years.

Um can you tell you can you talk a little bit about um the increase in head count and what if anything you are doing to try to control uh those costs?

Certainly, certainly can again to dig into all of that information.

Um it can be difficult.

Uh there's misinformation out as well.

Since my time as general manager, we have grown staff approximately two percent per year.

Um so that would be the accurate number of our growth.

So two percent per year employee staff growth at MPW.

I think that probably aligns with town's growth.

I'm not certain the number um the town council uh would reference as what is the community's growth been.

Um, but two percent has been the growth in our employees.

Thank you.

Right, any others?

Yes, sir.

Well what's the impact been and impact being the word?

Um I'm I'm assuming you're not getting as many impact fees as you once were.

So what's what's what is that impact on you?

Fund intended.

Yeah, yeah.

Impact and the impact.

Um very good point with the reduced growth that is reduced impact fees.

MPW has long had a model that growth pays for growth.

New users pay for the demands on the system that they create.

So that is the purpose of an impact fee, and yes, we are receiving less impact fees with reduced growth.

There's consequences of that.

Um the capital investment, the cash funded investment that I discussed earlier, uh, that will be driven by rates.

That is our only source of revenue.

Just to be clear, MPW, the only revenue we receive is through ratepayers, right?

There's no federal dollars, state dollars.

Um it is all driven by revenue.

So uh so Mr.

Alcofano, it is either coming through impact fees as the town grows, or it is coming through uh the water bill through our rates.

All right, any others?

I've got one more.

I was wearing this is it.

The if you were to sell to other municipalities with this new well, would they be paying an impact fee by getting online?

Would they be paying a higher rate?

Would it be like what are what is I'll just say all day, for example.

I don't know if you sell the doll now or not, but if you sold I can tell you at this point, we have no plans, no relationships, no contracts uh to sell water from the Grambling Aquifer to any other utility.

That water at this time is for MPW customers.

If it were an F, would it be at a higher rate?

Then very hypothetical at this point.

I think our commissioners would need to uh make those decisions.

Okay, thank you.

All right, the motion is to approve.

Is there any further discussion?

If not, all in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed.

Final reading, orders number two five zero four five.

All right.

Item number eight is planning.

Item A, new business, and I want to thank you, Mr.

Clum and Mr.

Coffin for for your excellent answers and and being here for the information.

Thank you.

Ms.

Reed.

Thank you, Mayor.

Good evening.

Uh Mayor and Council.

So this first request before you is second.

All right, this is on A1.

Yeah.

All right.

We have a motion to deny in a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Item two.

Move to approve.

Second.

We have a motion to approve and a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion cares.

First reading ordinance number two five zero four so item three.

Move to approve.

Second.

We have a motion to approve and a second.

Any discussion?

All in favor.

Oh sorry.

Yep.

Yep.

So this is the um, sorry, just to re just orienting this is the um 12 acres in the 10 mile community.

No, I'm not.

Sorry.

We're back in the city.

Okay, we're on three.

Okay.

Never mind.

On three.

The motion is to approve.

Any discussion?

Yes, sir.

I would like Ms.

Reed to please sec uh explain to council members who are not on the planning committee.

Um information we received working with Charleston County.

Sure, yes, sir.

So these are two parcels that are currently in the county.

They are within the urban growth boundary, and they are also within the 10 mile historic overlay district.

Um the proposal is to annex them in and zone them C C community conservation, uh, which would be three units an acre, and that is appropriate provided they are within the urban growth boundary.

Um the planning commission and the planning committee recommended approval, and the really I think the impetus for that was you have two separate parcels.

This one is S3, which is comparable to RCC, and then the front parcel is actually zoned in the county as community commercial.

Um, if you compare that to the town zoning, it's comparable to our A B2 zoning, which is our most intense uh commercial zoning.

And so they know that planning staff reached out to the county and it it was sort of a you know it's a down zoning of the property, but it would it does affect that 10 mile historic overlay.

And so um, but but I think that the the positive of that was that it was going to take that front parcel that could allow very intense zoning in the county and and bring it to C C, which is so both but both of those would be a three units per acre, which would be um of course commensurate with what's allowed in the S3.

And so both the commission and the play planning committee did recommend approval um for those.

So I'm happy to answer questions.

Any further discussion?

So this is at 10 mile community at three units per acre.

Correct.

It's within the historic overlay.

Uh so it would be subject to that moratorium that council adopted um a couple of months ago that's in place.

So you couldn't develop it with more than four um new lots.

Thank you.

Any further?

All right, all in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Right, motion carries.

First reading ordinance number two five zero four eight.

This moves us to Section B, old business, final reading.

Um move to defer.

Second.

To defer.

Yes, and the reason for that is the um applicant indicated that he wanted to change his application, so I think we should defer to give him the opportunity to do so.

Mr.

Just yes, procedural.

The uh as I understood the request, and as I understood information from our planning director, the change in application would be to zoning.

And he cannot do that at this point.

We would need to have new public hearings.

So from that perspective, and I'm assuming that is what you're requesting, I'm not sure a deferral helps him in that regard.

So that it would be a motion to deny.

Yes, ma'am.

But does that mean he does that mean he gets the reapply?

Yes, sir.

Does that mean uh maybe the community and I don't know that the two of them talk, but uh you know, one unit per acre is what he would offer?

That is for the well, let me make sure the annexation is part one, the zoning is part two.

So let me be clear.

I'm I'm answering the question as a whole.

Right.

Annexation, if that is what council wishes could move forward, but on the zoning part of it, it would be if you'd like for him the opportunity to change his application, deny the zoning, and he can come back with a new zoning request.

If we deny the zoning, does it come in?

What does it come in as?

Well, it uh it'll annex as uh rural residential, right?

And rural residential is how many units per it's three units an acre, the same as as um uh community conservation.

So it would be better than to deny both right.

Correct.

Correct.

Yeah.

Mr.

Mayor, right when he's in the audience is an opportunity for him to come up and tell us exactly what he wants to do.

Because it's a little confusing, listen to what I don't think so.

No.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Um the issue is based on our zoning.

We don't have a choice here.

It would be nice if we did, but we don't like the applicant up.

We've already heard from it.

And what we're trying to do is respond to his request based on our current ordinances.

So I I think what we're trying to do is respond, but respond in a way that it can eventually be done.

But we've got to go through the process under our current ordinances.

What would be the timeline for him?

Um he said you'd have to do the public hearing and all, I mean, that'd just be a couple of months, right?

Yeah, so if he were to reapply, it would be a different request.

He would be requesting rural conservation instead of um CC.

And so um because it's a new request, he wouldn't have to wait.

He could immediately reapply.

So a motion to defer would give him the opportunity to withdraw this application and reapply.

Conceivably, correct?

Like a motion to defer would give him the time to withdraw his current application.

We don't have to actually deny it.

He can withdraw it and he can reapply with rural conservation.

Yes, ma'am.

Assuming that's what he does.

Okay.

And what what would a motion to deny do?

Um motion to deny deny the annexation.

Um at that stays under it stays under in the county or district, right?

Right, it would stay in the county as is.

And then if there were a follow-up or new request, he could again request annexation and a zoning designation as discussed.

So he would get water and sewer in the county if we deny the annexation.

Correct.

At the one at a third of what he would get if we bring it into the town as CC.

So what would stop that if we annex it?

It would come in as C C right?

That's what he has requested.

But I think if you do a motion to defer, it puts it on him to go do what he said he really wants to do.

And if he doesn't, then it comes back to council, and then council votes what the council wants to vote.

Exactly.

So I think the motion to defer, which I would agree with Ms.

Whitley on.

Um allows him to come back.

Show that he wants to do what he wants to do or show that he doesn't, and then you just it doesn't start any new paperwork, it does anything, and then comes back to council in a month, and if he's done nothing, then what he said up here is it true.

Am I correct?

I'm not say all that, but I did say all that.

All that's correct, but it depends on a withdrawal.

And we I can't answer for it.

Nobody can.

I mean that gives 30 days for us to know if he's really going to be doing it.

Yep, sorry.

Ms.

Reed.

Yes, sir.

Um how long is this discussion within 10 mile being going on with the county?

And um uh determining from the county's perspective on the historic overlay, uh, what the process would be that the residents of the community uh uh would like to see.

And uh and that's question number one.

Question number two is it it's until July 2026 uh that they have to come up, unless they extend, to come up um with uh the the solution.

So how long has that been going on?

So the work for this um overlay has been going on for about three years.

It did go to the planning commission uh yesterday evening, um, and it received a recommendation um for um approval, but it still has to go to committees and and council for three readings.

Um and I I do want to clarify that so at this point in time it is uh one per three out there.

Right.

Um the the proposed amendment could be that it changes one per one.

We won't whether or not county council adopts that or not is yet to be seen.

But um, but that's correct.

It's hopefully we start to see, you know, by around um November or December what direction they're gonna take, which will of course help us in our process as well.

So Miss Reed is I understand it is one per three acres right now versus uh R1 one per one acre, and switches a significant difference in density between the two, and they are under discussions with that, and we don't know if it's gonna end up with one per three or one per one or some hybrid, but that was one of the reasons I believe we voted for annexation, not annexation, we voted for the moratorium so we could coincide with the wishes of the community.

And it's coming along at this point, it seems to be getting speed because there has to be a answer by uh July of 2026.

So my vote would be to continue the way we are uh to deny so that we uh could see what the answer is as far as that particular area.

Yes, I concur.

Yes, sir.

Uh when does this uh Miss Reed?

When when does this hit the um six month mark?

So I was just gonna say something to be aware of is that there has to be action taken uh six months from the time the public hearing was held, which I believe was June.

So we're coming up on that very quickly, and what happens at the six-month mark if there is no action, it's automatically approved so automatically approved or denied.

The annexation and the zoning?

Yeah, okay, automatically denied.

Denied.

Okay.

Yeah, I it's just uh I guess it's it's unclear whether we're gonna know what the county's doing with this um this zoning area um before we hit that that six-month window.

Um my inclination is also to deny, um, but I I will go along with the deferral for tonight and see if we can get some more clarity on what the county's going to do.

Yeah, any further discussion.

All right, all in favor of the motion, excuse me, of the motion to defer, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no, no.

How many no's two?

Okay.

No, yes, motion carries flipping the page to item Bwo.

Motion to defer.

Second.

We have a motion to defer in a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All opposed.

No.

One no.

Motion carries.

All right.

Item nine, committee action items, planning committee.

Um and two, we will probably discuss these together, but number one is discussion and possible action regarding the heights of detached accessory structures.

I will leave it to Miss Reed or the chair of planning committee to walk us through this.

I'll just briefly say that the planning committee was split to two on both of these issues.

We could not come to an agreement in either direction on recommendations regarding this.

I'll let Miss Reed take it from here.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, so the planning commission, this has been going between committee and and back to commission, and then came to committee um earlier this month.

So the commission for the height, uh, I'll take them separately and then we can discuss them together.

For the height of detached accessory structures, the commission did have some recommendations.

Um, what they wanted to do, and we can see it in the table here a little bit more clearly, but they wanted to go back to the old 20 feet in the old village historic district.

Um, so they it used to be 20, it can't went to 25, they wanted to go back to 20, and they wanted to add that 10-foot setback for side and rear.

What they wanted to do in the rest of the town, so that includes old Mount Pleasant and the entirety of the town, they wanted to keep it at 25 feet, but based on some studies from Wilmington, North Carolina, and Savannah and some other municipalities that are dealing with this, they wanted to um take any portion of that 25 feet that's over 18 feet, they wanted to add a 10-foot side and rear setback.

Um, they also wanted to add along with the 850 maximum square footage, they wanted to add a 40 percent um maximum.

So you're regardless of the 850, your detached accessory structure can't exceed 40 percent of your principal structure.

And so that's the planning commission recommendation as um as uh councilman Whitley said the the committee was split on this.

Um, but it comes to you with that with that recommendation, and I'm happy to answer questions.

Mr.

Mayor, I'll make a motion.

Okay, can we approve what planning commissioner recommended with the exception of uh in the neighborhood preservation overlay district and the rest of the town, that there is a requirement that at no time will the new construction be higher than the existing property height.

In other words, if the existing property is existing house or dwelling is at 25 feet, then the new could go to 25 feet if it was only 20 feet, it could only go to 20 feet.

Yes, sorry.

Okay.

Um Madam Clerk, did you get the motion?

Huh?

I believe so.

Okay.

Council members, it was kind of complex, but uh before we go into discussion, let's make sure we're great.

Um, Mr.

Paglomini, as you and I discussed yesterday, no matter what we pass on this today, it goes back to the planning commission and has more public hearing, right?

Correct, sir.

It has to have a public hearing and then it would come back to committee and then council for two readings.

Okay.

So even what we what we send to this is just what we're sending back to the planning commission, and and this is almost exactly what they what they came up with the first time.

Okay.

So um this is not something that's gonna go into effect and uh and not stay in the system for a while with public hearings.

Yes, sir.

I appreciate the question, and I think it's important as it goes back that uh real effort is made to go into those communities that it affects and make sure they adequately know what's going on because it's been a contentious issue.

We've talked about it a lot.

I think a real effort needs to be made to be very specific to reach out to people in those areas so they fully understand what's going on and can give input on those areas.

I think if we do that, hopefully we'll get more input and we'll get better uh uh participation and we'll have a better result.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

I've got one question.

The so Mr.

Chapman, were you saying so if somebody has a a ranch and they want to build an ADU, they can only build an ADU that's a RAN that is the height of the ranch?

Correct.

Is that I mean, just while it goes back, is that then encouraging people that may have just built an ADU that was two stories and and keep their ranch.

Are we encouraging people then to go up on their ranch now because then they could go up on their build their house to two stories so they could build their ADU to two stories?

I mean it's as it goes back, I guess the planning is something to discuss as well.

Yeah.

I've missed a jigsaw puzzle, there's no lie.

And really, but you know, by by doing this in the motion, we are continuing the discussion.

But we we are not reaching final decision on on all of this, but these are all good questions.

Yes, Ms.

Will.

So I was in the uh other half of the of the committee that was against this.

We spent two years on our zoning code and we passed it in May.

And now we're gonna just pull the rug out from under people and change it.

I also think this um setback side and rear setback is going to severely impact certain people's properties where they're not gonna be able to build an ADU at all because with these setbacks in place, there is no room to build an ADU or to build a detached accessory structure.

I think leaving it the way that we did it in our new code is best for the property owners.

I I don't want to penalize the people.

I mean there's a talk of protecting the people in the little little ranch homes, but the neighborhood's in transition and people need the when they come time comes time to sell their home and they realize that they're stuck with what they've with a ranch height and someone's gonna have to like tear down the whole thing in order to get what they want.

Uh I think it's gonna result in an acceleration actually of this turnover of the neighborhood of tearing down the ranch homes.

Um, because you know people are gonna be limited to um to certain heights and these set and these setbacks are are not gonna enable them to build what they what they need uh uh for their families.

So I'm not in favor of this.

Okay.

Yes, sir, Ms.

Yes, uh just briefly a point of order.

I don't think we have a second on this this motion.

Is it okay?

We do.

Okay, good.

Thank you.

No problem.

Um yeah, I I agree.

I think that that if you're limiting the um accessory structure to the height of the home, that the unintended consequence could be exactly what was just outlined, and that um it would encourage you to um demolish the home and and start from scratch.

And and so I would encourage us to um think about that um whether it's now or when it comes back to us.

Um I also think that there's some confusion about ADUs and accessory structures, that those are all short-term rentals.

Um the town has a cap on short-term rentals.

Um I think in in most cases these are people either um building for for their extended families or or parents who are aging, and and so I think there re is a real value um to to those ADUs um and accessory structures.

I also think when you start dropping it below um or below 25 feet to 20 feet, uh it encourages flat roofs, it encourages HVAC equipment mounted to the side of the building.

Um so I think that those are all um very important considerations for us.

Um and I I kind on on this one I I kind of agree with with council member Whitley that we really went through a a pretty exhaustive um several year period of of zoning.

Um and I'm so not quite sure what the impetus to um abandon or or modify that work is in this situation.

We really haven't heard from many citizens at all.

Um I am encouraged that this um goes back to planning commission and that there are um public hearings for this because I I just think that the general public is not aware that we're even content contemplating these changes and it's highly important um to them.

um goes back to planning commission and that there are um public hearings for this because i i just think that the general public is not aware that we're even contemplating these changes and it's highly important um to them um and so um uh i would echo council member um tinkey's um proposal to really put this out there and let people know that these are are changes being contemplated um and they need to um or they should be aware of them and to make their voices heard because i i just feel like i i've been in the the planning committee i've been at the planning commission meetings when all of these were discussed and there was very little public comment very little public input and so I'm a bit scared that we're putting the cart uh before the horse so to speak all right any other discussion yes sir mayor I want to clarify simply because you want to do an ADU next to or in the same property as you have a ranch that doesn't mean you have to tear down the ranch it doesn't mean you can't simply add on to the ranch or add a story onto the ranch so it doesn't mean what has been stated by some of my friends on council what it means is the neighborhood becomes more um equal in terms of what the heights within the neighborhood are and we've had some issues come up before this council where people were complaining about exactly what got put in the um in the order so it doesn't mean you gotta tear down the house it doesn't mean you can't add on to the house horizontally or a structure or a uh an opportunity to go up a floor it doesn't mean you can't do that and so I I resent the uh the idea that you have to tear down the ranch or you can't do anything to the ranch um I happen to have lived in a house that was a ranch and all we did was add on to the garage we didn't put an ADU in and we got a lot better viewing of the neighborhood by doing that so that's where this is coming from any other discussion all right the motion is is to approve and it had the conditions uh as you saw about the height in the old village going to 20 and the other at 25 but it cannot be taller than the existing building.

I'm I hope I didn't leave anything out but everybody knows the motion.

So all in favor of the motion to approve please signify by saying aye.

All right hands please how many ayes four five Mr Tinky Mr Chapman Mr.

Santos and all opposed no okay so five three the motion carries and that was only item number one item number two same thing the uh committee could not come out with a uh any recommendation on this one we had votes and could not come out with that um I will just say my piece here which is I also think this is what we have zoning in place that dictates what people can do with their property and for uh just tell the people in old Mount Pleasant that they can't tear down the red brick home and build what they want to build if the if the public knew was aware of this you would have them up in arms over this and to limit it only to the old village not that neighborhood overly did like if you're gonna do it do it to everyone like why are we doing it just the old Mount Pleasant and I just think you this is infringing on people's rights to do what they what they are allowed in our zoning code to do to their property.

Yes ma I'm just hoping that um we're able to get a really good explanation of this bar ratio.

Because I think that this something that committee didn't really understand.

And commission had recommended that we do all of this yellow area.

This old Mount Pleasant area to be considered so maybe if we could explain the B AR of course yeah ratio happy it would be helpful.

So the old village historic district which is down here in the beige has had building area ratio for many years.

All the commission has recommended is to expand it to old Mount Pleasant area.

So building area ratio is it's really volume control, it's controlling the intensity and the the mass and size and scale of what's getting built.

And so um these are kind of the standards.

It it's not comprised your BAR, so your building area ratio, so everything you build on your lot can't exceed more than 50% of your lot size.

However, if you have a really small lot, um you can still build a house at least 2500 square feet.

Um maximum BAR, regardless of how large your lot is is 5500 square feet.

So I do have a couple of uh examples.

Um, and this is just the calculation.

Building area ratio is literally the building floor area divided by the size of your lot.

Um, everything that counts towards it.

Um you can see here, and any sort of accessory building over um 144 square feet is gonna apply.

So I have a couple of uh of examples, and then I have kind of a real example in old Mount Pleasant to show you what this would look like.

So the first one is an 8,000 square foot lot.

Um if you think about that 50% maximum, um, that doesn't replace anything else.

So you still have 40% impervious surface, you still have 40% lot coverage, you still have your setbacks, it's just an added layer that has to be met.

So 50% of that, which we learn is the the maximum that you can have, would be 4,000 square feet.

So that can look a couple different ways.

It can be a one-story ranch right here that's 4,000 square feet.

It can be a two-story house, um, and all that building area ratio does not exceed 4,000, or it could be a one-story with an ADU uh that's made up, and again, nothing exceeds the 4,000 square feet, which is the which is 50% of that lot size.

So the second one is a smaller lot, a 4,000 square foot lot, um, 50% of that is 2,000.

But remember, regardless of your lot size, you can have a house size at least 2,500 square feet.

So you take that again if you don't exceed your impervious surface, your lot coverage, all of those things.

So you take this one, and again, it's 2,000, but you get that extra 500.

So it can again have any scenario.

You can have a one-story, you can have a two-story, or you can have a one-story with an ADU all adding up to 2500 square feet.

So that's kind of what bar looks like.

Um an actual example, I looked and I won't tell you what street it is.

I I blocked it off, but this is a site plan that we received, it's approved, it's under construction.

This is in old Mount Pleasant, so it's within that yellow area where BAR is not applied right now.

If it were to apply, this is what it would look like.

Um, so you have your total lot area isn't a little over 9,000 square feet, your house footprint is 3,200 square feet, you have an unheated garage that's 494, and then you have unheated covered porches, which are included, and that's over 500 square feet.

So you take all that, you take the lot size, and your BAR for that lot comes out to 55.9%.

That exceeds the 50 percent.

Um, this project went through and it's under construction right now because BAR doesn't apply.

If BAR did apply, they would have to reduce their footprint by five roughly 540 square feet to meet BAR.

And again, this is what they're already doing in the old village.

So this is nothing new.

This is just expanding it.

And so, you know, it may affect some lots, it may not, but I think the compound effect is could could be you know, this is kind of a no-brainer way to sort of look at that size, mass, and scale of what's happening in older Mount Pleasant.

And it's tried and true, it's been it's been used in the old village, and so that's just kind of a an example of what that would look like on a lot under construction right now if this were applied.

And so hopefully that kind of answers your question, and I apologize for not explaining that at planning committee.

Yes, well, you did, but I'm not sure if everybody understood, but it's just a concept of protecting the character of the area when it comes to mass.

The big complaint that we get from everybody is that every the things that are getting built are just huge, and we talk about the 40% uh lot coverage, and nobody can believe that those things actually meet that requirement.

Um and so this is just one extra step in that area that um could protect the character of the area and sort of limit just the mass, even in the smallest way, you know.

If it's three, four percent or whatever, it's it makes a difference in um just maintaining the character of the area.

So I'm in I'm in favor of expanding this to the um just the old Mount Pleasant area.

And I don't believe we have a motion yet.

No, we don't, but I just wanted to explain.

So I can make them I'll make a motion to um approve the BAR.

Second.

Uh and I just wanted to um say I totally agree with um councilwoman Hyatt.

Um it's been uh something that I've noticed throughout the entire time that I've lived here is that um particularly on McCant's and and some other streets.

Um you really it it really is jarring to see the size of of some of the new houses and I I don't think that this is unreasonable.

I think it would help us constrain it a little bit.

I think it would um uh improve the the harmony between the new builds and the existing structures.

Um as as Ms.

Reed said, it's it's tried and tested in the in the old village area, and I think it would go um I I just think it would help improve um how some of those new homes are fitting in um with their existing neighbors.

Ms.

Wheeler?

So um according to Google, it is about 487 dollars per square foot for real estate in Mount Pleasant for a home.

Um if you were to reduce this person's home by 542 square feet, I just did 487 times 542, that is 260,000.

You've just reduced this person's property value by 260,000.

There's as we said this back, I think it is important uh to both um Ms.

Hyatt and Mr Ms.

Whitley's uh to look at the impact of what it has, but by doing it in a very specific way.

If we're doing the old village, old Mount Pleasant, we know what the lot sizes are, we know what the houses are, and we could see if the particular um building to area ratio should be exactly the same as in uh the old village, or it should be some variation of that given what we may find and looking how at what the lot sizes are and what the typical the structures are in those areas.

I can only say in the old village of Mount Pleasant, having lived there 43 years, it's it stood the test of time well for us, but I could see how it could be different in in a different area as far as the percentages and how it was done, just based on uh an analysis of what the lot sizes are in the existing houses.

So I think it would be good just to have to have a little bit more information on it like that and see the impact, not only on this particular one where it has had a negative impact, but on the other s others as well, and maybe that will indicate um uh a a good solution.

Okay.

Yes, sir, and then and then Mr.

How old are the houses in in bill in in the in village, excuse me?

60s, 70s.

Well, uh specific in that old Mount Pleasant area, there's about 2100 homes and about half of them are over fifty years old.

Half of them are newer.

I guess my question is is why are we I might use the word target?

Why are we only targeting Indian village then?

Why aren't we going after the groves after Cooper Estates, after Shamwood too?

All of those have the same exact character as Indian Village.

Am I not mistaken?

And then does this does this also mean that can a person double their house size or not double their house size?

It depends on the lot size, I guess.

It it depends if you mean under the building area ratio?

Yes.

It depends on what they have existing and the size of their lot.

Is doubling of a house size possible?

Oh, it could be, yeah.

If it's a small house on a large lot, they could potentially double.

I guess that's my question.

I I see the same character in Cooper State, it's the same ranch.

Okay.

Does Cooper uh that's my boyhood there on Cuttingham Drive.

Does it not have a property owner's association?

None at all.

Because I know that there's a boat ramp so there must be something okay separate separate entity.

Yes.

Yes.

I mean I think the the reasoning is those lots are a lot bigger in those neighborhoods.

I mean, I wouldn't have a problem expanding this town wide, but I don't want to be unreasonable.

But those neighborhoods you mentioned, like the one I grew up in, Moss Park, those lots are half acre.

So large houses there aren't impacting their neighbors as much as this the older part of town that has smaller lots and everybody seems to be on top of each other.

So they seem more impacted.

I think Cooper Estates has the same size lots, but I mean I just I don't understand why we're going after one part of Mount Pleasant is kind of my question when all of those neighborhoods are very much the same.

I've been for the groves.

Those houses are enormous.

And the groves.

Huge.

I think one reason was when a chart was put up of where the teardowns and rebuilds have been.

They're all concentrated in this area west of Coleman Boulevard.

I don't have the chart in front of me, but I remember seeing it and the numbers that were out there, so it it makes sense that we would start where the issue is.

And again, y'all, I just want to remind everybody, this is not passing an ordinance tonight.

This is only referring this back for for exactly what we're doing, which is discussing it.

That's all it's doing is sending it back and having a public hearing and getting more feedback.

So I think we all have questions with it, but you know, we we either have further public discussion on it or we decide that that we already know it all and everything is fine, and and I favor uh having more public discussion on it by by approving.

Yes, um, one of the residual issues from doing this that hasn't been discussed is resiliency.

Right.

You're getting more open space, more pervious service for the water to rain.

Right.

And these areas we're talking about right now have a problem with drainage.

So it helps with that as well.

Yes, sir.

Uh I would perhaps just add uh amendment to it if it was uh approved to uh start with the fit the uh board area uh building area ratio of uh 50 percent of 5500, but have it open to discussion as to what that formula was based on the results of any inventory or survey information.

I I don't point of order though, I don't think we need an amendment.

I mean, all that's up for discussion.

Okay, yeah, yes, but I I get what you're saying.

Yeah, but we don't need an amendment at this point.

Right.

We prepare to vote.

All those in favor um of approval, uh please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

No.

No.

Right.

Opposed, please hold your hand up.

Two okay.

So motion carries six, two.

All right, uh section ten council business, uh new business.

There is none.

B old business, there is no old council business.

Item 11, if there's nothing further, come before this body, we stand adjourned.

Thank you.

I just I don't disagree at all that you say.

I just think that's a thousand budgets.

I think that meeting I have to remote.