Five, eight o'clock a.m.

Item number one's called order, which I've just done.

Number two, approval of the minutes from the September 2, 2025 meeting.

Mr.

Chairman, Mr.

Chairman.

Second.

Okay, we got a motion and second.

Any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All opposed.

Eyes have it.

Item number three is public comments.

If you have any public comments, you're welcome to step on up to the podium.

We'll give you a couple of minutes.

I've got a hand up for the councilman so they could follow along.

Each of them, I appreciate it.

Thank you.

My name is Carl Middlestadt.

I reside at 2759 Gaston Gate and Brickyard.

Good morning, Council members.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak.

I'm here to respectfully request that you defer approval of the proposed brickyard parkway sidewalk project for three important reasons.

Safety, tree impact, and fiscal responsibility.

First safety, one of the town's justifications for the sidewalk is to allow children to walk to school on Hamblin Road.

Giving easy access to cross a very busy eight-line eight-lane highway that is especially dangerous at peaks peak school hours is too great of a risk.

Vehicular collisions at this intersection are common.

Adding children's bodies is an irresponsible risk for serious injuries and fatalities.

This is not walkability, it's child endangerment.

Second, redundancy and cost.

With so many real infrastructure needs across our town, this is simply not a responsible use of taxpayer dollars.

Third, significant violations of the town's tree protection ordinance.

The proposed design includes over 120 violations to the town tree ordinance, including invasive grading, trenching, and construction within the tree protection zone of mature canopy trees.

These violations aren't minor.

They directly conflict with the town zoning code and long-term tree canopy goals.

Town staff invoked the ordinance exemption attended intended for only when compliance is impossible or unrealistic.

But alternative designs that preserve tree health do exist and they are possible and realistic.

Applying this exemption here sets a dangerous precedence.

In fact, it fails to address the numerous ordinance violations of and the required grading cuts within the tree protection zones, nor does it identify the significant difference between the design elevations and actual elevations.

I just got one thing.

All agreed that it causes significant tree damage, violates numerous ordinance standards, and is not fiscally responsible.

Councilman Rambo has also indicated he does not support the project moving forward.

We all support a more walkable town, but this plan misses the mark.

It introduces new risks, wastes financial resources, and threatens the environment.

I urge you to remove the brickyard sidewalk section from the scope before moving forward.

At the very least, a deferral would give time to explore alternative plans that remove significant impacts.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Anyone else?

Good morning.

Good morning.

I'm Rebecca M.

Holtz.

I live at 1247, Colfax Court in Brickyard Plantation.

I've been a longtime resident of Brickyard Plantation for 30 years.

I welcome the addition of the sidewalks to our neighborhood.

I think it will enhance the quality of our life.

I um am really excited for the children that go to school at Lang and Jinny Moore that they can actually walk to school, ride their bikes.

I really don't see any negative impacts to this project.

I so agreed that appreciate the town's investment and uh continuing to make our town or communities um wonderful places to live.

And um I request that this project not be deferred, that it continue and move forward.

I trust the town to do what is right regarding any landscaping impacts.

Thank you for this opportunity to comment.

Anybody else?

Okay.

Committee.

Mr.

Chairman, I'll move for approval of item four.

Second.

All right, we got a motion and second.

Any further discussion?

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

Um, just wanted to um address a couple of the comments that came up.

Um, my understanding is that the town has been working very closely with the brickyard HOA on this project and and has um work to mitigate any um potential impact to the trees by um changing the depth that they're excavating for the path from six inches to four inches.

Um I also understand they're working with the HOA to use a special um color of cement um that fits in with what's already there at the entryway as well.

Um, I think it's important uh that people have a safe and easy way to get out of brickyard to highway 17 and on to the sidewalks and and the crosswalk.

And um currently that's not possible currently.

Um if you're gonna do that, you're um either walking in the driveway to brickyard or you're walking um through their landscaping.

Um, furthermore, I also understand that there's an irrigation system there that we that the town is going to move um uh out of the path of the sidewalk, and so um for all those reasons.

I think the town has has done a good job of working with the residents of Brickyard.

Uh I think that sidewalk will be well used with the proximity of the two, um, the middle school and the elementary school across the street.

Um I think that it will help in the long run connect Brickyard with the rest of the community from a pedestrian standpoint, and for all those reasons.

Um that's why I'm supporting this part of what is a much larger um construction project with sidewalks and multi-use paths throughout the town.

So thanks.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Chapman, anything?

No, sir.

Other than it is a crossing to get to a middle school and an elementary school.

Whether we put this sidewalk in or not, children are gonna cross to do it.

We need to make it as safe as possible, and that's what we're doing.

Okay, very good.

All right, we got a motion and a second.

Any further discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, the ayes have it.

Okay, anybody else?

All right.

So uh we're going to number five award a contract for the Edwards Park pump placement.

Good morning.

Uh staff requested a bid from Xylem Water Solutions USA Inc.

to furnish all labor materials and equipment required to provide and install a new replacement pump at the Edwards Park pump station to include new controls.

Previously, Xylem Water Solutions USA was the firm who installed the original pump station at Edwards Park.

They were previously approved as a sole source provider to maintain and replace the equipment for the town at the pump station.

This work is in accordance with that approval.

Xylem's bid was reviewed and was determined to be responsive, responsible, and within budget.

Staff therefore recommend awarding the contract to Xylem Water Solutions USA in the amount of 261,022 to perform the pump replacement work.

Okay, thank you very much.

Mr.

Chairman, I'll move for approval.

Okay, second discussion.

Okay, we got motion and a second.

Mr.

Chapman.

Um chairman, as you know, and Mr.

Brownstein knows we lost over five million dollars in the federal government for improving the drainage within Edwards Park drainage area.

Our second most needed.

And we were ready to go.

While we lost that money, the best we can do now is do everything we can to make sure that equipment in this area is working properly.

That's what this contract is all about.

Very good.

All right.

Any further discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, the ayes have it.

Item number six is award of contract stormwater repair for the wondrous east neighborhood.

Yes, the bids and purchases committee previously approved the establishment of agreements with contractors to perform various types of stormwater repair and rehabilitation services on an on-call basis.

This project involves the cured in place pipelining of approximately five hundred and seventy-two linear feet of thirty-six inch diameter stormwater pipe.

Necessitated by a sinkhole resulting from a collapsed section of pipe.

Staff have determined that this project will require the services of Groundhog Utilities LLC utilizing the established unit pricing and their on-call agreement with the town.

Staff therefore recommend contracting with Groundhog Utilities LLC and the amount of four hundred twenty-five thousand nine hundred forty-two dollars and seventy-six cents to perform these pipelining services at this location.

Okay, thank you very much, committee.

Mr.

Chairman for approval.

Second.

Okay, we got a motion and second.

Any discussion?

Um yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

Go ahead.

This area drains into the pond, if you will, that eventually empties into Sneafarm area and goes all the way to Long Point Road.

It's important that this area drains properly because when there are heavy rains area gets flooded.

So it's important that this area drains properly.

And I'd like to ask uh Mr.

Weiss to come up and explain this for us, if you would, please.

I don't dress up much, sir, so uh it pains me to an extent.

Um this is one of many repairs we've got going on in town uh dealing with our stormwater system.

And uh as Mr.

Chapman stated, you know, this area connects to another area which then connects to the outfall, and and that's how the system works.

And you know, when you have a uh a break in the system or something that slows it down, it can have greater impacts across uh a wider area.

So this uh this uh sinkhole, it's been on the books for about a year now.

We've identified the solution after after checking it all out, and and we believe that this is the best route to go to repair it and then uh and not have any other further impacts.

This this pipe does drain an apartment complex as well as along the Wando East subdivision, so it it does have some a lot of water going through it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Committee.

I think there is, yeah.

Got a motion and a second, any any further discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

All opposed?

Ayes have it.

Item number seven is adjournment, so we've we're ahead of schedule now.

Good job.

That lake wander.

That lake wandered.

Oh, yeah.

Jake, what's up, buddy?

I'm good.

What's good?

I'll keep looking for her.

Okay, so if she's ready.

Okay.

All right.

We'll call to order our health recreation and events committee meeting for October 6th.

Next item is approval of minutes from the September 2nd meeting.

Move to approve.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Motion passes.

Next item is public comment.

If we have anyone that would like to address the committee.

Just need a name and address.

And two and a half minutes.

Good morning.

I'm Barbara Smith, 410 Royal Avenue.

And I'm here to speak about number four on the agenda.

First, I want to thank those who have placed the no parking signs on Royal and Edwards.

I know that this was a team effort.

Thank you, Andy.

And this has cut down on many, but not all the cars that are parking under the oaks, but I'm sure glad to see that we are now taking care of our live oaks for many to enjoy for many years.

Regarding the all-fleash hours and where this would be is still a puzzle to me as to why we need this.

Why after so many years is there a town is the town now enforcing the least leash ordinance?

No one seems to know that answer to tell me.

The town spent so much money recently building two dog parks under the bridge.

And I do hope that the ones on rifle range are being well used.

I don't know how to for y'all to be able to tell me how that works, but um in the past six months they have had animal control at Spite's field enforcing the leash law.

This field was for was so well used by so many, and now not so much.

And this makes me sad, and again, I do not understand why.

And then it came up again when Alhambra was closed for renovations, and now all fleashimes.

Please just leave things the way they are.

This has worked for many years.

So I do very much appreciate and speak for many of our neighbors too.

Appreciate y'all working through this situation.

Thank you also to Andy and the group for putting up the signs that say no motorized vehicles past this part on the Royal Avenue side.

That is already working wonderfully.

So there's still a good bit of wheel traffic on the roots of those big trees.

But that preliminarily has made a big difference.

I've heard that there's been some discussion of moving the plantings back out towards Royal.

So then people if you can't read a sign then maybe you're not going to drive over shrubbery.

That's a cool idea.

So thank you for embracing that too.

We appreciate it.

We're also in preliminary conversations with neighbors and with public services to create a friends of Edwards Park to help offset it it has a lot of pressure on it.

Public services does an amazing job but it shouldn't all be on their shoulders so just to help supplement what they do that's in the starting works now too.

So thank you all very much.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Next item is continued discussion of possible action regarding the designation of locations for off leash dog hours.

Yeah thank you.

So last meeting uh you asked to bring back some information regarding the potential for having some areas that would be uh non-fenced off leash dog areas.

So I've kind of provided you with some information for you to consider uh in terms of what some rules and guidelines would look like some potential spaces where um these uh new dog areas uh could go uh and then have you guys decide what may be uh the best uh committee so uh we've looked at some hours here uh Monday through Friday from 6 a.m uh to eight a m and then again uh from 6 p.m to 8 p.m uh trying to utilize those areas when uh folks are you know getting ready in the morning uh but also when kids aren't waiting for the school bus obviously we don't want any potential accidents to happen with a dog being off the leash and uh a kid waiting at a school bus not seeing what's going on uh and then again in the evening hours before it gets dark I know a lot of our passive parks uh uh don't have the best uh lighting so I don't think we'd want someone out there till 10 eleven o'clock with a dog off leash just again potential problems that could occur um all dogs must be licensed and vaccinated um obviously we would want that information to be readily available uh in case someone is asked for that information from whether it be uh a staff person and a police officer so on and so forth um all dogs would need to be accompanied by their owners with a limit of two dogs per owner uh a couple reasons for that obviously having too many dogs under one person's control can get a little uh active if you will uh we'd also don't want to promote uh kind of dog businesses to to do their business at one of our passive parks without having any kind of business license or anything like that so just kind of a couple reasons why we want to limit the number of dogs per owner uh obviously dogs would need to be on your voice control that way if any potential issues or problem were to occur hopefully the owner can reel in that dog rather quickly again no aggressive dogs or dogs in heat obviously various reasons for that um and the owner must carry a leash at all times uh as they enter or exit these potential off leash uh non-fenced areas uh we would want them to be leased just so that they know where they're going and and they're safe in that manner so um some potential sites to consider uh I've really only have two here in terms of town recreation owned property uh those would be Edwards Park and Carnes Park uh I tried to identify one in the north area but we just don't really have a facility currently under our umbrella that we think would be a good spot for an off leash uh dog area so these are kind of the two we've identified uh and then again just listed the ones uh that are currently fenced that are actual dog parks just for your reference uh but those are fenced obviously once the dog is in that fenced in area uh they can be off the leash in those those areas listed and obviously the last one is not owned by us but it is in the town of Mount Pleasant so any questions comments suggestions from the committee on what direction they would like to take I'm not familiar with where current park is um it's kind of so like it's kind of under the as you're going towards Daniel Island if you will I don't really know the road under that yes ma'am the James and has a trail that goes behind it.

That that park is kind of right on the road but then there's a trail that goes in the back of there as well but I'm really specifically talking about the kind of passive green area right there in the front.

Oh okay is that a place people use now I have seen folks out there with their dogs before uh it's probably I don't know if would if it would be as widely used as Edwards Park but I have seen dogs out there before yes ma'am okay and we didn't believe that spikes would be a good area.

Okay.

And we didn't believe that spikes would be a good area.

Well, the one of the issues with spikes is due to the fact that sometimes we do have a lot of children there for baseball, softball practices, uh, or just maybe kind of free play, if you will, kids out there just throwing the ball with their parents or whatnot.

So trying to kind of keep those two worlds away from each other a little bit.

That makes sense.

Did you all have any questions or comments?

I think the uh the the Marshview Trail uh over at Waterworks was a good one.

I remember when we did that.

Um so that's still fenced in, right?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, that's a good place for them to be able to take their dogs out there as well.

Anything from you, Mr.

Raymond?

Uh I'm I guess that's yeah.

So I'm not a big fan of the off-leash hours.

I just think it's A, it's a lot of government to license and and all of that kind of thing.

And then B, I just um have heard from a number of uh non-dog owners and dog owners of particularly small dogs who have had issues um with things like that.

And I know like the beach does it, um, but to me the beach is is a kind of a different animal than um uh some of these.

So uh like I kind of like Miss Barber said, I think we I'm good with leaving things the way that they are um I think I think the resonance point was the way it was where we didn't enforce the leash law, but I'm not sure we can continue to not do that.

So I think that was her idea was to just not enforce leashes.

So this is why this came up is because they're residents that really missed the opportunities they've had at the parks.

Um for me, I'd like to just have council weigh in on this.

I don't know if y'all just want to just send this concept to council for discussion.

See if anybody else I think so.

Okay.

Um I think these are some good ideas, and I'd like to hear from everybody else on whether they are in favor of doing this or not.

I um thought it deserved a conversation just because we have so many citizens that really are interested in doing this.

Um, yes.

Well, I I think one of the points that came up last month, which was really good about that.

So I I get that it hasn't been enforced, and so it kind of de facto was happening.

But as soon as you advertise it and put it out there that one of these parks is an off-leash dog park.

Now all of a sudden it's not just maybe some of the people that used to do it and they didn't get caught, so to speak, but you're you're gonna bring in a lot more people because it's now an advertised area where you could do this and some of the problems that that might bring where it might not have been an issue in the past.

I think that's to me that is that was a good point from last month, and I think that or last time we met whether it was last month or not, I don't know.

Um, but anyway, so that's the part where I think like especially Edwards Park would be a tough area for that.

And and I honestly need to go to Curns Park to see what it looks like because I I know it's there, but I don't think I've ever been there actually.

So it's hard for me to weigh in on that.

Um so you think maybe we could take the time to look at that and hear from the rest of the council and yeah, I mean to me it would be I would not have Edwards Park on this list.

Um potentially Kern's Park, but like I said, I I would need to see it first.

Oh, okay.

So are you contemplating deferring it to um next for discussion?

Yeah, just for next month's meeting.

Yeah, for next month's committee before we send it to council.

I would just like to send it to council with like a recommendation, but I I will personally I don't want to vote yes or no on that because I'd like to see Cardinals in person.

So all right.

Well, we'll keep hopefully we'll have the public way in now that we've had these ideas put out there and um we can discuss it again next month.

That sounds good.

Next item is program and projects update.

Uh so we don't have a whole lot of major updates since last month.

Uh obviously our numbers are still doing very well.

Uh one thing that I do want to make mention of is in about two weeks is our children's day festival, uh, which is one of the largest festivals we have, and obviously a lot of kids there.

So if you're able to be there, uh in two Sundays, we would love for you to come out there.

Um and our projects are moving right along.

Uh hopefully uh we'll have some more updates.

So we don't have any many updates since the last 30 days, but hopefully more than in November.

So if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

Well, I was gonna say for the benefit of our citizens, can you tell them where that's gonna be for the kids?

The Children's Day Festival is at Park West.

Um, so it'll be thousands of families and children out there.

Uh we'll have jump castles, food trucks, entertainment.

Uh parking does get uh a little cumbersome, but we have plenty of areas there that uh that you can park, so just try to get there early and spend the day.

Uh parking does get uh a little cumbersome, but we have plenty of areas there that uh that you can park, so just try to get there early and spend the day, hopefully pray for great good weather and we'll we'll have a good time.

One more thing.

Um do we have a trial on schedule any time soon for the kids?

Uh we don't have one right this moment.

Uh we're working on looking at doing something here, uh hopefully in the springtime, but still trying to work out the parameters of it.

That's good, because we had a great a great group last time.

It really went well.

I'd love to see those kids out there, you know, run and riding and swimming.

You know, it really it really looked good.

So I'd I'd like to you know, don't forget about it like once a year.

We ought to probably do it too two or three times a year.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

No other questions.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

We'll adjourn.

Um I mean it's it's still hard to get this.

Yeah, yeah, probably.

Yeah, yeah, Christine just.

So we can buy all of them.

So maybe uh, just too three.

Let's change your schedule, because I'm still on the same thing.

All right, it's pretty much so much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, one of them.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I think it's more like the ball checks that loss.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I can do it.

Maybe I'll see what you got.

Next to a highway.

Um find the email and send it to me as you see.

It has a list of remote Excel style for it.

I don't know how it's going to be how well graduation is correct.

Yeah.

I'll make it now.

I'll send you something that we got.

This is all that part of the part.

Yeah.

I don't got one.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's probably just what we said.

I'm sure that you're going to be positive.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Sounds like one that I'm going to have to do.

She's ready.

Okay.

Well called to order our economic development committee meeting for October six.

Um, next item is approval of minutes from the August 4th meeting.

Move to approve.

Second.

Any discussion?

No?

No, no.

All in favor.

Aye.

Motion passes.

Next item is public comment.

If we have anyone here to address the committee for public comment, we do.

We just need an name and address in two and a half minutes.

Thank you.

Morning.

Uh DC business address 3404 Software Back Street Park West.

And John Tafoe.

We are here just you probably have seen our application for uh the grant.

First of all, I'd just like to thank you for the opportunity to be heard and thank you for the grant program.

I think that's a wonderful thing for business owners in the town of Mount Pleasant.

Uh hopefully everything's self-explanatory, but just briefly on the project.

We're taking the former Chris's dry cleaners, which hopefully everybody's familiar with at eight oh eight Coleman Boulevard, and we're relocating a few Mount Pleasant existing businesses that will have a high growth factor to those.

So it'll be um our real estate office.

It will be uh Dr.

Manasi's dental office that will go from five dental chairs to twelve dental chairs.

And then she's also been running um an internationally acclaimed dental course out of hotels downtown Charleston.

So we'll bring that revenue into the town of Mount Pleasant.

Uh that will seat 30 students at a time.

We'll take that course from maybe eight to twenty courses a year.

Uh and then we'll also be adding two apartments on the upper floors of that that we're working through that now.

Uh it is already approved through the DRB, and we are in the process of waiting for a permits.

Hopefully, that'll happen this week.

But here to just answer any questions we might have about this and for the job impacts that might come to the community.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

No.

Okay.

Next item is um executive session to review and just and discussion of an economic development grant application and legal advice related to potential acquisition of real property.

Do we have a motion to go into executive session?

Second.

Okay.

Um committee may take action on any item including any subsection of any section listed in an executive session agenda agenda discussed in executive session during a properly noticed meeting.

All in favor of going to executive session?

We're in executive session.

Okay.

That's the problem.

We do that to get these two better options.

But we're inspection that we have to do.

We have to do that small.

That's what we've got.

I think it's like nothing.

So I understand why we have to go to spectrum.

So you're not allowed to part of the doctrine.

So one of the side boxes might get on the other screen.

I hear the part of the cards.

Yeah, I think it's here.

Okay, probably the rafter out so I don't know.

One of the two different things.

I was just gonna try to erase that uh that time to try to get back up to the back especially if we go to last year one example pretty much almost like post- We'll see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then Saturday gets more the stakeholders itself and eight days all kinds of fun activities.

Then obviously you have a call.

My favorite kind of Thanksgiving for the slightly so it's there's a way to do it for economics for like two people.

Especially with that big number, it's a water as well for the weight thing.

Um maybe I'll be better at the back.

That was just one of the things that we put in the first time.

I think it's probably not the way you want to go.

Yeah, I have a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah.

So I just don't want to have it.

So my big part of it.

So I'm probably not sort of creation with the right.

Yeah.

So I think that's what I've just got.

Maybe also that's how we can start the same now.

I think this is the same for the script so much.

I don't know if it's the only thing.

I think it's just something that is something.

I work for that.

I get it.

I'm very clear up there.

What if we got it?

It is.

I thought my first time around shaken.

Still stays on this.

But not as much.

Yeah.

That's what people are exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would have to do that.

Yeah.

I think that's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, there's a problem right now is that project is that money uh don't know just like user that's the white uh signal.

Yeah.

That was good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's not good for the screen, but also this is not a hard time.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for what you do too.

And let me know how to help us.

I think that's the actual number of stuff.

Yeah.

Okay.

But I'll see if I win it all.

Yeah, we'll tell you if it works in the highest and second.

So I think that's a good question.

Like just fairly problems are some of the seconds.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm not just fine as a person.

I want that back from executive session.

No votes for taken.

I don't know if we have any motion coming out of the executive session.

Council?

Any recommendations?

Okay.

Um with that we'll adjourn.

It's not in the checking out.

Good morning everyone.

Um I'm Howard Chapman.

I'll be chairing public services committee meeting this morning.

First item of business is to call the order.

I'd like to call this meeting to order.

Next item is approval of minutes for the March 31, 2025 meeting.

Second.

Motion made and seconded to approve the minutes.

Any discussion.

Hearing none, call for the question.

All those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All those posed.

Ayes have next item is public comments.

Anyone here that would like to make a public comment please give us your name and address.

You have two and a half minutes.

Good morning, Council.

I'm Myra Jones of 730 Dragoon Drive, and I'm the acting president of the Creekside HOA.

Running parallel to our property line of our homes on the rear of our homes on Dragoon Drive are a utility easement and a drainage easement.

The drainage easement is vitally important buffer between the residences, the business district, highway 17, and Johnny Dodds Boulevard.

Town ordinances establish the importance of buffer areas between business and residential districts.

In 2024, the town recognized the need to replenish the greenery and re-establish the privacy screen and install plantings.

Two months ago, the town's contractor errantly eliminated all greenery in the easement to include the plantings.

The town had paid for installed.

Our privacy is completely gone.

Three to four homes with an approximate total of four hundred feet of property line are most severely affected.

The rear fences of the homes should be increased to twelve feet in height.

Um I think the solutions probably are are are twofold.

One is um to actually to plant some trees in the right location that won't get mowed down either by the town itself or by Dominion.

Um, and then uh and then hopefully work with us homeowners in some manner um with uh with building better privacy fences and what I would ask maybe at a minimum is if the town could uh waive some permitting fees.

If any of us build just like a six or seven-foot fence in our homes, you don't have to go get permitting, you just get to go do that.

When we start building taller fences, you have to get a building permit, and that comes with a variety of expenses.

We have to hire architects and engineers and stuff.

Um, and so you know, I have a long frontage or you know, over a hundred feet, so uh that's gonna cost solid $20,000 to do this.

Um I would ask for just at least at least some help on administrative fees at minimum, but then the planting is my said on the far side.

We can't park we can't plant on the close side, we've got it's gotta be on the far side, and we can work with the business owners over there to accomplish that.

That's what we ask.

And um, I've already been in touch just with by email.

You know, of course, the town has a tree program.

Um I got in touch with uh Christian Farrell, who's of course there, and uh she very kindly responded to me.

And uh I think uh that's a program we can use perhaps to uh to address this as best we can, but we would just ask for the town's support in doing that.

So thank you very much.

Would anyone else like to be heard?

Good morning.

I'm Janet Newham at 510 Pitt Street, um, and then here to talk about the Edwards Park area.

We want to say thank you very much to Andy and his team for putting up some of the signs on the Royal Street side where people were parking um under the oaks and really just have damaged the undergrowth and it's just dirt now.

It used to be grass, not good for the trees.

But Andy has recently put up some no-motorized vehicles beyond this point, which really is helping a tremendous already, just helping a good bit.

And I know he has some other ideas and um options to present for even from further solutions.

There's been some discussion of maybe moving the vegetation closer to Royal to help those folks that are ignoring the signs.

Um so there's some more visual there for that.

So I wanted to thank him and his team and y'all for considering all of that.

Also, um a group of neighbors which is ever expanding as we talk about it, are forming a friends of Edwards Park group that can help supplement the efforts of public services.

They do a fabulous job, but these are folks that are just right there and are um happy to help keep that part nice too.

So thank you for all that you do.

Thank you.

Thank you, Andy.

Good morning.

I'm Barbara Smith, 410 Royal Avenue.

And I wanted to address number five on the agenda parking options around Edwards Park.

Well, first of all, we've already thanked him, but I want to thank him again, and those that were involved in saving the root systems of our beautiful live oaks around Edwards Park.

This was really a team effort.

I saw so many people out there working on that, trying to decide what would happen, and and it's happening, and I'm very appreciative of that.

We are a tree city, and I'm very proud of the fact that we are a tree city.

And this is just one way that to save what what we have existing.

The no parking or no motorized vehicle signs have worked for the most part.

And there are those who still insist on parking there, but I know that's always going to happen.

But the signs have really helped a great deal.

And I know if maybe plannings out a little farther would help um to alleviate some of that parking.

So everyone loves our passive parks, our Hambros Spites and Edwards.

Thank you for keeping them available for all to enjoy forever and ever without any fencing, as Andy knows.

I'm going to always say that, but thank you very much.

Would anyone else like to be heard?

Seeing none, we'll close the public comments period.

And I've been advised that uh the individual that was to be here for employee years of service uh is out working.

So uh have to do that another at another meeting.

Uh the next item is a review of parking options around Edwards Park.

And I think that uh Mr.

Weiss might have a report on this.

And we've already heard reporting some of the people who spoke during public comment.

So Mr.

Weiss.

Yes, sir.

Um the slide depicts kind of the right-of-way around Edwards Park, just so you know, get to kind of show you what we have to deal with around there.

The the right-aways on Royal Avenue and Pitt Street are both 60 feet uh right-aways, which you know, we would need a surveyor to get the exact measurements, but I mean, just as a planning factor, if you went center of road 30 feet in either direction, that would be the states.

Um, and then we would get to our park.

Pitt Street and um or uh Ferry Street and Bank Street.

It's uh a 40 uh 30 foot and a 40 foot right-of-way on each side.

Well, we did based off of the uh the uh complaints we had about the vehicles parking under the trees.

Um a couple weeks ago we went out and place no motorized vehicles beyond this point signs.

Um mostly on the Royal Avenue side.

We also put some on the Pitt Street side.

Um we went with this sign for several reasons.

The intent was to put it outside of the of the right-of-way so that uh it would be enforcing uh on town property.

Uh talking with the police department, they said they could enforce trespassing off of this sign.

So that was the intent.

And uh I think we put about seven in on the royal side and about two on the pit side.

So looking at our options moving forward, we can keep this as is, and uh it does seem to be making um making improvements in the area as far as parking, and then uh, you know, with police enforcement of of these signs, you know, hopefully it will continue to get better as people get used to to them being there, and if they receive a ticket, they learn from their their mistake and they don't park there again.

But uh what I'm gonna do is outline four potential courses of action as we see it.

This being the first one, which keeping it as is the second option we had talked about internally was placing bollards, and again, this would be on our property line uh in the park, and uh so we wouldn't be messing with the state's right-of-way.

The um the measurement, a rough estimate is 41 posts would be needed if we did them every uh eight feet from the uh on the Royal Avenue side, and about 40 post would be needed on the Pitt Street side.

This is just looking at the kind of the fuzzy math.

It doesn't account for a four by uh four or a six by six post, so we probably wouldn't need quite as many posts as we are putting them in.

But then that would clearly delineate the park, and obviously if we did them every eight feet, you know, cars would not be able to get through them to then park under the trees.

However, you know, I think the with the bollards, it would not be uh it would be closer to the trees than then people would imagine with that 60 foot right-of-way.

Uh so that would be a limitation there.

And then in installing the the bollards, you know, we would have potential tree route issues as well.

Option three is to actually formalize parking there where we could control it.

And uh this would be something similar to what was done on the IO on IOP on Palm Boulevard, where you know, we would then determine where the parking should be and then uh you know make formal parking spots there.

So that would be another option as well.

And then option four would be pursuing a no parking plan.

Uh this would have to be coordinated with the state in order to make the no parking zones along Royal and Pitt.

There currently are two non no parking signs on the Pitt Street side, and those were put in to stop people from parking around the pump station and the Mount Waterwork uh Mount Pleasant Waterworks pump station, so maintenance could be done and maintenance vehicles could get up to them.

Uh but to the best of my knowledge, those are the only two real no parking signs in the old village.

So if we if we did go around Edwards Park, it would be something unique to the area, um, which would be a potential drawback.

But there is a process associated with this.

We'd have to coordinate it with DOT, they'd have to give us permission to to create or uh what to put the no parking signs in there, and then we would they would be breakaway post, and then we would be responsible for maintaining the areas.

Those are the four options we have for you know addressing parking around Edwards Park.

Another thing, just so you're aware, we do plan on doing um some improvements to the parking lot there.

Uh the intent is the parking lot will hold water sometimes during heavy rain.

So we're gonna look to see what we can do to improve the drainage of the parking lot and then go and uh repave it and realign it and possibly post that with no uh no overnight parking signs or something to that effect to make it more of a parking lot for the park vice just for people to park uh random things there for extended periods of time.

That includes that concludes my presentation if there's any questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Weiss.

The members of the committee have questions.

Ms.

Hyde.

Um rather than um the ballards, I to me I'd I'd be inclined to like to see some green barrier like a hedge.

Could we plant boxwoods or something that would make you know a border around the park where cars couldn't pass um and then delineating parking where we can.

I'm on calling to accommodate people to get to the park.

I don't really like no parking signs.

I I think if they can legally park on the side of the road, they should be able to if we can delineate that and maybe have a hedge rather than um some concrete markers.

That's I'm wondering if that's something we could address.

Sure.

Any other comments?

Mr.

Brownstein.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um yeah, I I kind of agree with what you said, um, Councilmember Hyatt.

I'm also wondering um we we just put in the sort of the no motorized vehicle signs.

Um have those had an impact on on how the parking situation is is going there.

My understanding it it's had a positive impact.

There's not nearly as many people trying to park under the trees.

Um I know if I've gone through there and noticed people parking there, I've called the police department and they've dispatched uh community service officers, I believe, to issue tickets.

Uh so I think it's it's like anything.

Uh new signs, people have to get used to them, and then you know, once they're used to them and they realize that there's there's consequences, hopefully they're effective.

Um to address the hedge piece, it's something we could look at.

My concern is um planting under some of those trees, pending what we plant.

Um if you go on, I believe it's uh um either Google Earth or uh Google Maps, you can go back and look at old imagery.

And I mean, if uh if it was shot, and there's uh yes, even the driving view where you can look and look down the road, and there's old pictures of of more grass and vegetation there, but the trees were much smaller too.

And uh the concern is what can we get to grow under those bigger trees now that uh that they're grown in sunlight, isn't necessarily getting underneath them.

So that will be one of the challenges with the vegetation, plus again, dealing with the right-of-way and making sure we're not encroaching on the right-of-way as well.

But it's something we could look at, and maybe it's a combination of some vegetation and the signs we have in place.

Um and in the future, I I know you know we we haven't really done much with Edwards Park because we thought it was going to be used as a lay-down yard for the um Edwards uh drainage basin project, um, which um council member Chapman referenced earlier um this morning, um, the funding for that was was pulled by the federal government.

Um is the intent though at some point to to still utilize Edwards Park uh as a laydown yard whenever we have the resources uh required for that project.

Um it's an EDS project, so I can't fully speak to that, but my understanding my assumption would be that it would they would still look at using it because it is centrally located to the drainage project.

So if that was the original plan, I assume they would they would look at doing that again.

Okay, yeah, and I just wonder, you know, putting in the the ballards or something like that, if that would have an impact on our ability to to utilize it, you know, eventually during that that construction process.

The bollards would uh you know, I doubt the bollards would come out.

I mean, a lay down yard, usually there's a fixed entrance point and a fixed exit point, so that could be controlled.

My understanding is the plan was only to use half of the park as a lay down yard where the other half would still be open to the public.

Okay, so it sounds like that's maybe not as much of a factor.

I don't think that would be a concern, and that's something we that could be coordinated with the contractor if that uh that were to be awarded.

Yeah, I guess I guess just from my perspective, um, you know, what I'm thinking is the signs just went in, maybe we give that some time to see if that solves the the issue before um moving forward with any of the other options.

And I guess that's just my initial opinion on the matter.

Mr.

Santos, do you have any comments?

Um I agree.

I agree on that.

I remember going back to that piece of property back when the police station was there long time ago.

So um I love going out there because it's it's got a lot of good memories for us.

So um, whatever we can do to, you know, establish a a a really good uh area there where people can come and uh whether they bring in their dogs or whatever they wanted to do, uh I think it's important to have that down there for 'em.

So um I'm all for you know what people are talking about here.

Um Chief.

Do you have any suggestions?

Uh have you have you taken any um comments from people about how things are going?

Have we made any parking uh citations there lately since we put up the signs?

I don't I don't know exactly how many of the issues I'm happy with the day for you.

Specifically those parking signs, one of the parking signs.

Right.

But um I I've not heard anything any pushback coming through the police department's social media sites.

Well, that looks like we may solve the problem easily, but I just wanted to ask to make sure we weren't leaving anything out.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Would anyone like to make a motion?

Uh or do do we want to send anything to full counsel as of now.

I I think we should just kind of wait a little bit longer and and keep an eye on it and and see if those signs have um solved the problem.

That would be my inclination.

And um before I forget, I I did want to um thank uh Miss Smith and Miss Newham for coming here today and speaking to us and and um I always love when we we get a lot of citizens that come to us with complaints and and problems.

Um but I always love it when the citizens who come to us with those complaints and problems are volunteering to pitch in to help.

Um that doesn't happen as often as as I would like, and so um really appreciate you guys uh coming here and um happy to hear about the friends of Edwards Park um group that you're putting together.

Um so it's good to see citizens pitching in.

And go ahead.

I I agree if we want to give it a little time and see how the signs are doing and maybe look into the planning option just in case that that way we have some ideas if we move forward with that in the meantime, and then we could bring it back to committee.

Yes, ma'am.

I mean, surely there's some plants that grow in the shade.

I mean, who knows?

We could look into it.

And I I have had the opportunity previously working with Ms.

Smith on a um first tree commission for the town, and uh she was always very congenial in working with us in that fact, and she's continued that with the uh Edwards Park.

So thank you again for coming and uh thank everyone who's worked with us and Mr.

Weiss it looks like you may have solved the problem already, but we're gonna find out.

Yes, sir.

We're gonna find out.

Do you have any further presentation?

No, sir.

Okay.

Um looks like the next item on the agenda is to adjourn.

I'll adjourn this week.

Yeah, sound ball for that.

Yeah, we're back on schedule.

Keep our feet up.

I guess that's something that should be like that.

That's not the way that we're talking about it.

I think we'll get to some there actually on the screen.

Yeah, it's all I can say.

That's good.

That's what we've got.

I was sure to do illustration.

Yeah, we have to actually have to work.

I just got one.

She wants to have to be sure.

Oh, I can say that you can say what we have to say.

Yeah.

Um step on this.

Should I just do that for the way should go in the designate?

But something like that.

Yeah, very much.

Oh, you've got an order.

Thanks for less than that.

So I have one.

All right, good morning, everybody.

Let's uh call to order the education committee meeting for Monday, October sixth, twenty twenty-five.

Uh, we have called the meeting to order.

Uh the next item on the agenda is approval of minutes from the June 2nd, 2025 meeting.

Move to approve.

Second.

All right.

We have a motion to approve and a second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

All right.

And it carries unanimously.

Uh item number three is public comments.

Is there anybody here to speak to the committee this morning?

Good morning, Lisa.

Good morning.

My name is Lisa Schnipke.

I live at 185 Mayokway here in Mount Pleasant.

I live in a large neighborhood that's been around for over 30 years.

We have over a thousand homes.

I've had the opportunity to serve on my HOA board for about nine out of the last 10 years.

During that time, I've had the opportunity to work with our police department and to educate our community.

I've never had anything but positive results when I've reached out to them to get statistics to include in our newsletters, or Chief Arnold was able to come to our community last winter and present to our our residents things that they can be aware of as well as how the police department works throughout the town.

I think that if we can educate our community to reach out to them, I I can't imagine that they wouldn't be able to provide great education for our residents.

But at the end of the day, it is our residents' responsibilities to use common sense to lock up their homes and their houses and their cars and to take their guns and valuables out as well.

But I just I think that that they're doing a great job on educating.

We just need to tell people that it's available to them.

Thank you very much.

Anyone else to speak?

Good morning, Mr.

Haney.

Good morning.

Will Haney 316 Mallard Court.

As you consider an education campaign about crime in Mount Pleasant, I hope that you will also put out the great news that has been published.

And I want to go over some of that and make sure this is in the record and that it gets out there to the public because there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Safewise has ranked Mount Pleasant among the top ten safest cities in South Carolina, and we are the safest large municipality in the state.

The statewide South South Carolina has 26.6 total crimes per thousand people of population.

Mount Pleasant is at 15 total crimes per 1,000.

Let's look at our Pier Cities.

Charleston is at 24.6 per thousand.

And according to reports, a lot of that is driven by the night activities and the in the bar zones and those type things.

Somerville is at 35.1 per thousand, and theirs is caused by a higher burglary burglary rate.

And North Charleston is at 56.9 per thousand, uh driven by busy industrial and bigger transient population.

And again, Mount Pleasant is at 15 per thousand.

We are the safest, well, one of the uh top ten safest cities in South Carolina, and we are the safest large municipality.

So I think our police are doing a great job.

I think they're doing a good job educating on everybody because our crime rates are down, and um and the other numbers for the department are good.

So please um get the good news out too.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else for public comment?

Uh seeing none, we will go ahead and close that uh and move on to item number four, which is discussion and exploration of a public safety education campaign and partnerships to reduce preventable crimes.

Chief Arnold, welcome.

Good morning.

Um previous speakers.

Um I hear that a lot, and I appreciate that, and and we do a great job.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to improve, which I think is kind of what this is about is trying to make as safe as possible and look for ways to go from uh good to great.

So we have always had a an education campaign.

Um a little bit about some of the stuff that we've been doing.

Um we have uh we used to have a 9 p.m.

routine.

Uh lock your stuff up in the evening.

Um when we go back and we review the the data from social media.

Um we've got a printout.

And believe it or not, 9 p.m.

is one of the lower times for people to engage with social media.

I think it's just they're busy with their nighttime routine with their kids, things like that.

And so there's not as much volume on on social media.

So what we'd like to do is is look at the data that we have available both through the town's social media website and the police department's social media website and really kind of pinpoint when people are most active on social media and just kind of be more precise with our posting.

It's not that we can't resume our 9 p.m.

routine.

We absolutely can do that, but um tweaking some of what we're putting on social media um is always helpful.

So for years we've had a lock it a lose campaign.

Anytime we see a spike in particular area for criminal activity, we put lock it or lose it signs out to remind the public.

Um at the beginning of subdivision or something like that, you they they may see signs.

Um our citizens police academy, we've been doing that for 25 plus years, uh, which is a way for people to come and learn about the police department and what they can do to help keep the community safe.

Our victim of crime car driving through the neighborhood at night and they see an open garage door or an unsecured vehicle, they leave a a card reminding our citizens please lock up.

Um discussions at HOA meeting, knock and talk in 2021.

One of our sergeants undertook a project where he went door to door.

Uh, he and the officers went door to door and spoke to six hundred and fifty residents in an area that had seen an increase and um talked with people one-on-one.

You know, social media is great, but I think it's a little bit more impactful when you're talking face to face with residents.

So um and when they did that campaign, they also handed out a card with tips on how to be safe.

So um over the years we've we've done a tremendous amount.

Um we have a couple of suggestions.

Um one is to is for us to coordinate, like I said, with the town's uh communications team to increase uh visibility um between the people that follow the town of Mount Pleasant, the people that follow Mount Pleasant.

Um I think we can reach the most people.

Um the other things that we do um is uh anytime somebody reaches out to us and asks for a security assessment, we do that.

We recently did one for a private school.

We don't publish those.

Um we don't publish who we're doing them for because we're pointing out vulnerabilities, hopefully for them to correct, so we don't we don't put that out publicly.

Um and then um one of the things that I'd like to to do is um we used to have a crime prevention officer.

This was one officer that was dedicated just to that.

Um and we're as our numbers come back up and we can staff that position again.

I want to staff that position.

And that person's trained in what's called SEPTED, which is crime prevention through environmental design.

Um we can put some of the basic tips of SEPTED on our website.

We should do that.

And we we we can work on getting that done pretty quickly.

But offering to any citizen if they reach out and want a site survey of their individual property, um, how can I make my property uh a less attractive target?

We're happy to do that.

So we'll very soon be sending a couple people to SEPTEB training um and resume doing some of that.

So I'm happy to answer any questions um about educating the public with how to help us be a less suitable target.

Um, you know, I've said this before uh every month, more than half of our arrests are not Mount Pleasant residents.

Um one of our big issues is vehicle break-ins.

Um and you know it it takes very little time and no money for somebody just to click the lock on their key fob, and yet we see it time and time again, about 80% of all vehicles that are unlawfully entered, they're unlocked.

Um I think year to date we've had 23 guns stolen from unlocked cars.

We don't want to make it a fine.

Uh we don't want to um because then people wouldn't report it.

And then it's even harder to identify where your trends are and and where the the criminals are going.

So we we want people to continue to report it.

Um we don't want to shame victims too much.

Um particularly with the these property crimes.

So happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, sir.

Uh any questions from the committee.

Chief, I know we've we've spoken a lot about this.

Um I I knew somebody that uh was telling me how their car got stolen and they lived in a first house in the neighborhood.

And I said, cargo solar, how does it get stolen?

They said I said, were your keys in it?

He said, Yeah.

I said, Why'd you leave your keys?

I said, because I live in Mount Pleasant, it's a safe city.

I mean and I think I think that's um I think that's what sometimes paints a target on us that we do do that.

And you said how many guns were stolen?

23 year to date.

Year to date.

Yeah, for for 2025, we've had 23 guns stolen from unlocked cars.

Right.

That's uh a very bad figure.

It is.

And we we know that we've had guns stolen from vehicles in Mount Pleasant and used in violent crimes in North Charleston or Charleston.

Right.

And this is not this is not it's not a a police issue, this is a citizen issue.

It the the citizens absolutely have a role to play in in keeping our community safe.

Um we can't be everywhere all the time.

Right.

And so the simple act of locking a door and removing valuables from plain sight, it it doesn't cost a taxpayer a dime, and it could make a huge difference on crime in Mount Pleasant.

Um I've talked about it before.

There's a theory of crime that centers around motivation offenders, suitable targets, and guardianship.

If you can impact guardianship or the suitability of a target, you can deter crime.

One of the biggest places you can see this as an illustration is uh post-9-11 with uh TSA and the air marshal programs, different things like that, where you harden a target, you reinforce a cabin door in an airplane.

Like there are things that can be done to deter criminal activity.

So I'll just I'll I'll put all my questions at once so you can answer.

But number one would be how can council have more?

Number two, the security assessment.

Is it that's available to all business all businesses?

Anybody that's called we will have somebody go and do an assessment.

Is that uh residential or just business?

Just so I mean residential can get a lot of crazy.

We we can do residential, right?

Um right now it's been mostly larger businesses because of the amount of people.

A lot of the context of that surrounds active shooter training that coincides with that.

So we'll do a site survey, you know, and and try to teach people how to respond, where to go, what to do, um, how to harden that target so that they're less likely to be a victim of an active shooter active threat violence type incident.

Um maybe Matt Brady can get involved with that being involved with businesses as well, right?

We really want to just bring all of this together to like you said, we we're going to be sending two people to the uh to become certified in SEPTED, which is the crime prevention through environmental design, and then those two individuals um that's when we open it up more to individual homeowners.

If somebody did it right now, yes, we would we would send somebody, but I want to increase our our knowledge and capacity to do those surveys.

I think Lisa brought up a great point.

I mean, the HOAs is the biggest the biggest and probably quickest way to to make this happen as well.

So I appreciate that.

How how can we help you on on counsel?

Um what I would say is um you all have pretty robust social media followings.

If we post something, um repost it, forward it on your social media platforms.

Um that's part of that coordinated effort in terms of the town, but you all have platforms as well, um, where if we post some information um about a lock it or lose it campaign or you know, simple test steps that you can do, um that would be one of the most helpful things um would be for council members to also say to our citizens, do your part.

And I and I know the chair has done a good job with with the education committee ensuring educating the citizens.

So how can the education committee and and and what can our chairman then bring bring to staff to allow you to to do this?

Um like you said, a lot of it is just is getting the public not only to take that information in, but then act on it and remember to to lock their doors.

Okay, thank you.

Sound good.

Miss Whitley.

Well, I just want to um thank you, Chief.

And and um I have been on the receiving end of the victim of crime card uh when I left uh our garage door open uh overnight.

So I I know that the the officers are um being proactive um when they're out in in public and trying to kind of identify um these soft targets.

Uh agree with what you said about the the social media um yeah, 9 p.m.

bedtime for for kids and people are winding down and so um I think there's just a lot going on in people's lives at that time, and that's probably why some of them are forgetting to to lock their cars as well.

Um but we're just interested in in working with you in in any way possible um to make sure that we're we're hardening targets and and uh you know not not making it easy on people who come here with um with bad intentions.

Right.

And uh uh on the HOA um side, I've attended one um HOA meeting with uh one of your lieutenants who did a a great job of interacting with the neighborhood and they had a kind of a more specific complaint um that he addressed well I thought um is there somebody on the staff that's sort of assigned to to make the rounds at these hoas or is that kind of an ad hoc uh process?

So a lot of field a lot of that happens under field operations bureau.

Um and so the the two the two lieutenants that we have, um they have particular geographic area that is assigned to them, and so they will normally be at those HOA meetings when we are aware of them.

It's the patrol lieutenants that primarily do that, along with the sergeants.

Good morning.

Welcome to the Human Resource Committee for Monday, October Sixth.

First order of business is the call to order.

Second is the approval minutes from the September 2nd, 2025 and the September 18th, 2025 meeting.

Do we have a motion?

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

That is three eyes.

Next is public comments.

Anyone here for public comments?

You have two and a half minutes.

Name and address, please.

Good morning.

Good morning.

My name is Lisa Schnipke.

I live at 185 Macio Quay here in Mount Pleasant.

Why now?

Why are we talking about compensation during the first quarter of a new fiscal year?

During the budgeting process, I did not hear the department heads ask for more resources from these committees, nor do I remember the town administrator doing the same.

I have confidence in these department heads and hope that they're following industry standards in regards to staffing and other resources.

Town council voted to pass the budget with its current staffing levels.

So why now?

Is it because the department needs, or is it because it's election season?

Compensation is important, but there's more ways to retain employees than just salary.

Benefits, culture, environment, stability and leadership, things like that.

I think I remember hearing that our employee retention state retention rate is in the high 90s.

That's good.

So why now?

If the compensation review suggests that we need to address wages, do it during the budgeting process with recommendations from the department heads.

Thank you.

Good morning, Council.

Mike Van Horn, Iron Bridge Drive.

Explanation.

Why now?

Let's take a look at the fact that uh our budget of uh 2025.

I'm gonna sit here and read these numbers into the record here.

The budget for 2025, we had a total of uh $393 million was our budget at that point in time.

2026, our budget revenues for 166 million dollars.

That's down 58% from 2025.

Just for the police and uh fire expenses for 2026.

The budget for the police department is 23,928,000.

That's down 2% from 2025.

The fire expenses uh have gone up as far as uh 18 million six hundred and fourteen.

It's up five percent.

And from my understanding, that has to do with a lot of the equipment that needs to be uh purchased as far as trucks and also bringing on the other services throughout the town.

One of the things that I would like council to do whenever they get an opportunity is maybe we need to sit here and take a look at things as far as the way we sit here and do our processes.

You know, every five years we have our comprehensive plan that we put together as far as that study, but then we have a wage review every four years.

So the wage review just come up past the uh comprehensive plan.

So maybe we need to have that wage review put in place prior to the comprehensive plan so that we can sit there and identify these issues.

So therefore we have an opportunity to sit there and identify, you know, do we need to increase wages?

You know, everybody's talking about as far as the tax increase here or the lack of the millage rollback.

Well, this explains why.

Like I said, we're down 58% from our previous year's revenue that we have coming in.

So that's what I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Going once, going twice.

All right, public comment is closed.

Next agenda item.

We have two discussion topics for the HR committee.

Uh number one is the total compensation review.

Good morning.

Good morning, Mr.

Fano.

Good, how are you?

Good to see you.

Um, as far as the first topic, the total compensation review.

I've put up a couple slides.

One is of a police officer and one is of a firefighter.

Just by way of example to show you this is the pay statement that everyone receives bi-weekly.

Um, and up there it shows you in that top box that's highlighted, but I'm sorry, you can hardly see it, but where that first arrow is, you can see that that's what the earnings are for that period.

It shows you the hours and the overall earnings, the current, and then I picked one at the end of the year so it would have the year to date.

So I think that's probably missing one week at the end of the year.

Um, and then in blue, that's the employer portion for the health coverage, um, life insurance, the um the contribution to the retirement system for these, it's gonna be poor's instead of SCRS and the employee assistance program.

The only other things that aren't captured on there are the employer portion of the taxes.

Um so if you look at the top, that's what we would traditionally call the wage part of it, and if you're looking at the blue part, that's adding in the total compensation.

So that's your benefits, and that's your insurance and other benefits, and then at the bottom I've captured both of those to come up with the total compensation number.

And this is a um fairly new police officer, and this person has um just the employee covered on the insurance, and then on the next one, it's a firefighter.

Mr.

Tingy, do you have a question on that one?

No, I was just trying to get the cover.

Do you know what uh I do have a question on the uh police officer?

What what rank is that?

This is officer.

This is someone who's been here about a year.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then for firefighter, it's the same.

Someone who has been here about a year and um shows their earnings, the gross wages at the top, it shows the employer what the employer's paying into the benefits, and comes up with the total compensation number.

So this one looks a little different, and I think it's mainly because this is family coverage, as opposed to the other one being just employee only um medical coverage.

So the employer portion portion of that is different.

Yes, that's your question.

Yeah, Mr.

Tiggy, you had asked for this to be on, which is so this the so this would be about um 20 30 percent um is what the numbers are as far as benefits, taxes, and other compensation.

Um in the Evergreen report, it talks a lot about um the fact that uh officers who are paid wage versus salary are less likely to want to move up because of the amount of overtime they receive.

Yes.

And so um uh is there and this isn't a really fair because I wasn't uh asking the question the first time, but I understand that uh firefighters and um police officers get a fair amount of overtime.

Is that is there some standard amount they typically get?

Is it like 10%, 20%, 30%?

So when they look at total compensation, we'd be able to know over the course of year over year what total compensation is because I see that this has some overtime in it.

Is that correct?

Yes.

And so is that fairly standard or does it go by job classification and officers, etc.?

So um it would it would be true for all of the hourly for the police officer we're looking at, for example.

I have not calculated an overall number.

Um from what I've seen, it varies greatly.

There are some that do little to none, and there are some that it blows my mind that they're doing a lot of overtime.

Um, so I think it's a very personal thing, whether they have the time, whether they um have the need or the drive to do that.

So um I don't even know that it would be fair to average it because it is it is so different.

So it's fair to say it's personal, it depends on the conditions of the person, and in some cases it can be small, in other cases it can be substantial, and that could make a substantial impact in their take on pay on an ongoing basis.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

The question with overtime is is also I I know on my personal experiences if I see 40 hours of overtime per week every week, I'm short, typically short of body.

So is our overtime due to staff shortages then, I guess, Chief, or um how does that how does that work, or is that picking up extra shifts?

Obviously, call-offs are going to do that, but it's something you can't rely on.

I said, but I mean it is overtime consistent as well for staff members.

Is this something they can factor into their annual salary?

No, and we don't want to get to the point where we're saying you have to work overtime.

Overtime can happen for a variety of different reasons.

Um members of the SWAT team, for example, or the negotiations team.

If they get called out for high risk warrant service, they're gonna have overtime.

Um if somebody catches a late report or late in their shift, they're gonna stay after and type that report up, they'll get overtime.

In the department, we have always done our best to keep our overtime cost down.

Um a lot of that's done through scheduling adjusting.

If a person has a late report and the next shift, they can come in a little bit later or leave a little bit earlier.

Um we do everything we possibly can to keep overtime costs down.

Um, but there's a there's a wide number of detectives, for example.

Um they get called out frequently and they're gonna have more overtime than necessarily a standard patrol officer.

Um we have some traffic officers that make a lot of DUI arrests, and if he makes two or three DUI arrests in a shift, he's gonna be working overtime and writing reports.

So overtime as a metrics uh is kind of complicated, is what I would say.

Um I hope that answers your question.

I think so.

Do you have any questions?

So it's it's fair to say also there you look at the unintended consequences as you're looking to have someone perhaps consider going forward into a salary position so they don't feel like they can get they aren't diminished in their salary, as the Evergreen report talked about.

And we also look as we add stuff, which may seem to be a really good idea if that unintended consequence is that person is getting a lot of overtime year over year and has to take less, we have to look at that as an unintended consequence.

I don't know that yeah, you you could um look at it.

I don't know that that's gonna be a large amount.

Okay.

Um, sometimes when we when we fall below minimum staffing levels, we will and I I've seen emails where they'll put it out department wide and say, I can't cover this ship.

Can somebody fill in for me?

And when they fill in and they're covering a shortage because we're below minimum staffing, they're gonna get paid time and a half when they fill that in.

So um I mean, we could go back and run the data to see how many times that happens and get an indication of how many times we're filling in because we're dropping below our minimum staffing levels.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Chief, very easy.

Chief, Chief.

Not that chief, not that chief.

So ours is a little bit different.

Um for a large portion of our overtime budget, it is built-in overtime, if you will.

So for the Fair Labor Standards Act, um, anything above a hundred and six hours in a 14-day pay period is paid an overtime rate.

So the minute they hit hour 107, um, that's at that time and a half rate.

So in our large paycheck periods or the weeks where they work five shifts in a two-week pay period, they automatically have 14 hours of built-in overtime because that's 120 hours in that pay period.

Uh in the smaller pay periods, it's 96 hours because it's only four shifts, and they don't hit that threshold.

So that's a portion, a large portion of our overtime budget is dedicated to that quote unquote built-in overtime in their schedule.

Now, some of it does go to cover staffing shortages on the truck, and by shortages, I mean captain, we need a certain number of captains, a certain number of drivers, certain number of paramedics every day, and through leave or sick leave, all those types of things, we have to have a minimum.

So then we they do pick up those shifts to fill those key roles.

And then thirdly, I'd say some of that overtime also goes to part-time work, meaning our fire marshal division, we have a large group of part-time inspectors that when they're not on the truck, they come in and help us do the business checks in the town.

Um our recruit school is solely run by people that normally operate on the truck as their primary function, but they come in on their off days and help us in our recruit school.

So some of the overtime goes to that too.

I put it in those three categories of built-in filling key roles on the on the apparatus daily, and then the extra duties that we have to keep the department running and and growing.

So it's Mr.

Tanger.

So as I was looking at the Evergreen report, and it it uh to I believe it covered base pay that did not have a component for overtime.

Is that correct?

It did not show that.

So what I was trying to do is trying to have a comparison of uh if you're looking at comparative pay and what um pay is and you're trying to see how that is, it's almost interesting to have a comparative of overtime for those positions and fire and police and the areas that we looked at as well.

And secondly, I don't think it covered benefits because you felt the benefits were uh about the same as the others.

Ours might be a little better, but it was marginal on the marginal.

But um, so it's it it's is is interesting to sort of get a feel for how our comparative markets are as far as the the overtime.

Thanks.

Yes, oh chief, just one thing.

I I've uh you know um Mr.

Arnold mentions about like the DUIs and stuff like that.

I I heard a kind of interesting thing.

So we it maybe you can explain if we start um some level of service on a patient, um, whether it's a heart attack or a stroke or something like that.

Is it true that our paramedics have to then is there times they have to get in the county EMS and go downtown or go to the hospital with them and then wait until they're admitted.

So we lose we lose that staff.

Okay, so there's two scenarios there for something like a heart attack.

Um, it takes a lot of hands to make all the different things function between the medications and all the different things.

So there are times where our paramedics will jump on in coordination with their paramedics just to have an extra set of hands or two, trauma calls, things that require a lot of work on the way to the call on the way to the hospital.

Uh so those do happen for the more serious calls.

Um, but once we get to the hospital, one of our battalion chiefs or somebody's already there to pick them up, and then the hospital staff and the EMS takes care of that.

There's a second scenario where there are some basic life support and advanced life support trucks in Charleston County EMS that do roam the county.

And they handle the more basic calls, but if it was something that was elevated, the patient took a a downturn while we were there, we would not be able our paramedic would have to ride that in.

Now that doesn't happen a lot, but we couldn't decrease the level of care once certain certain interventions were started.

So yes, they would have to ride into the hospital, but we don't have to sit and wait for admission.

The hospital staff takes them as soon as we get there.

So I think those are a little bit less frequent, but both of those categories do occur.

So basically, due to your leadership and the training you've provided, elevating your team to paramedics when a basic life support uh Charleston County EMS shows up, then we're adding a whole nother extra level of service, and then we follow and and then we we follow that all the way through to the hospital.

So yes, sir.

Thank you for that.

I I'm not sure the public understands the provided that ball rolling.

That was that was previous administrations, but I would say I've said it before that I'd put our level of medical care, you know, as tops in the state as far as fire department goes.

Um we've done it for decades, and and yeah, we we can do everything that I that advanced life support analysts can do except transport.

Nice work.

Any other questions on the uh compensation?

Thank you.

Um the report, uh I think we did a increase of one of the speakers mentioned earlier we did an increase in 2023.

Um, and then uh I guess we had the budget um that had compensation in it, and then we'd have this report.

Now when do when was this report commissioned and how long does it typically take if we want to do this on a regular basis every two to four years?

So it's traditionally been done every four years.

COVID threw that off a little bit.

Um it depends how deep you dive.

So this time we just did compensation because we had completed classification benefits and wages the last time, and they generally advise that you don't really need to do that every time.

So every other or every couple times to do that.

So this one took less time.

I would say it still took three months.

Um it depends how much you're looking at and how many um comparison cities you're looking at, really.

Okay.

The last question on that is I noticed in the report it was a 12-page report, is that correct?

So and it gave low, medium, and high, and then we stack our personnel against that.

Is there uh I suppose you have a list or you've created a list of the number of uh fire police and and staff that are not police and fire that would be encompassed in this, and I think 72 is the number that was used on that.

So that would be the one that would be used to determine the increases uh should we adopt, which seems like a really good idea to adopt that plan.

Uh I'd be in full support of that.

The um so that would be what we would do uh with that as far as timing of it, um I guess the timing of and talking to uh Mr.

Damora, it could start fairly promptly uh because uh when we when the revenues would be coming in from the taxes, is that correct, Mr.

Damora?

Thank you, Mr.

Tinky.

You're referring to implementation of the result of the wage screen report.

Yes, sir.

We would need um you know a couple weeks to build the structure of implementation.

Um but but after that we can implement it right away, knowing the taxes are coming in in January.

Okay.

And my understanding on the total compensation, this has built in not only a wage, but total compensation, I mean benefits as well as the incentives that were uh referenced that we needed to do larger incentives than what was being done in our comparative area.

So it has that total amount in there for the 1.5 million.

Yes.

Thank you.

And just real quick and and we end the subject then it it would be interesting to get the number of overtime and and how many full-time employees that equals, right?

At some point, maybe on the next HR committee or something.

Um I think that that's an important number.

Um I appreciate it.

Any any other questions?

No, I agree.

I agree with that.

I ran a food and beverage operation as well.

And so it was uh that overtime is a lot, but then when you bring in somebody because it looks like you're paying too much overtime, then they go find another job.

Right because they want to get that overtime.

So yeah, it's a delicate.

It's a very delicate balance, which with a wage increase could help even that out as well.

That's right.

Right.

So thank you.

And then any other things on that.

So the next subject is the code of conduct that we had discussed bringing to council before or bring it to this committee last time.

Yes, and um this is an excerpt from the 2025 employee handbook.

Um just verbatim section one point five that specifically addresses workplace conduct.

Okay, and didn't you guys have like a checkoff?

Like a bullet point one too.

Was there a bullet point?

There's a a bullet point one for more specifics.

Okay, like these are the things you shouldn't do, and we list them more specifically.

I think the question then becomes on this is when even maybe when even council comes on board, but when committees come or uh I'm sorry, commissions come on board if we're giving a certain bullet point or code of conduct to those commissions is something that we had discussed, and um, and just bringing this up and seeing where we wanted to go with that, especially on the orientation process to make sure that we have a clear definition.

Obviously, we want to allow our citizens to be out there being citizens, and also if they're representing the town, that's two different two different things.

So, Mr.

Rambo, do you have anything that you'd like to add to this?

I'm sorry, I'm still unclear about what purpose we had discussed at the I guess I don't know which HR committee meeting.

Um possibly discussing a code of conduct.

And I'm so new to this.

Um I would want to go back and just figure out what the history of it is, why we why we do it, how we do it, when we do it, and what are the unintended consequences of it?

Because I think you know, one thing we have to be careful of too is um freedom of speech as we look at things as well.

So but I do in most companies I've been involved with, I've had uh either a ethic code of ethics or a code of conduct.

I'm not against it at all.

It seems like a good idea, but I want to know what the history of it is and the who, what, where, why, and how of it.

Did we did we used to have a code of ethics or code of conduct for even town council or commissions in the past?

Maybe Mr.

Damore knows yes, sir.

There was a code of conduct um when it came into place.

I can't recall.

Perhaps uh Clerk Barrett keeps better records on that than I do.

Okay.

Thank you.

So what would you guys like to would you guys like to see more of a breakdown on this?

Uh I mean, I like the idea of uh if folks that we appoint to boards and commissions are gonna get you know an orientation um some kind of outline is great.

Um at the end of the day, um anyone who serves on a board or commission serves with the pleasure of counsel, so they can be removed by a vote of council or not renewed or replaced or what have you.

Um so I don't know that the code of conduct is necessarily some binding thing, um, but it's not a bad idea to have as part of an orientation process, I think.

And this workplace conduct basically it says a golden rule to me, you know, so it it it's a pretty good standard, but I do think the orientation is a really good idea because we've talked about that uh with commissions and and town council.

Town council gets a very good orientation, but commissions uh may vary, and so it'd be good to look at that.

I would agree.

I think maybe next time what we bring to the to the HR committee is to discuss the orientation process as a whole and ensure that we're we're discussing kind of workplace conduct or or ethics at that point, because they these things are brought up to us in our or in our orientation, and we need to ensure that we have a very even playing field.

So I think with that, um I think with that we can close the subject and bring it up at the uh and more of an orientation type thing.

So I think that's important.

Yeah, sounds good.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

And with that, uh item five is to adjourn.

So thank you.

We are adjourned.

Thank you.

Five minutes.

Oh, is it five minutes?

Yeah, oh god.

Thanks.

I think launch is launched with lunch or afterwards.

Oh, it was lunch afterwards.

Okay.

You're right.

You're right.

I think we will have to move.

No, you're fine.

There's no crack.

I can stay here.

You're fine.

Um that I'm not sure about.

Oh no sure.

I think I have to oh no because that's my seat.

I think I have to move.

I don't want to get I don't want a good way to do talking.

You know that's a that'd be important.

Oh yeah no something this meeting is our response.

Yeah.

Like I said I don't want to get way of Gary's chocolate.

John and Mary I need to go down one more time okay.

Not a problem.

I can do that.

John Garrett right here, yes right there.

John Gary.

Yeah.

John Gary Mike.

We're gonna hide his chocolate.

See what happens.

No I won't do that.

I'm not playing that we'll be oh man thank you so much.

And we're still short after it's a little bit more than technically there's one the day before the all thing yeah but I'm like I'm gonna be adjective.

That's what I have this time.

There we go.

Here give me that's gonna be like materials.

This is about your probably good lot of stage the special town council meeting for this Monday October sixth twenty twenty five item number two on our agenda is public comments if you're here to make a public comment please come forward name and address two and a half minutes please anyone for public comments good morning council my name is An Moore and I live at 14

The special town council meeting for this Monday, October 6, 2025.

Item number two on our agenda is public comments.

If you're here to make a public comment, please come forward, name and address.

Two and a half minutes, please.

Anyone for public comments?

Good morning, Council.

My name is Ellen Moore, and I live at 1469 Gunnison Street in Carolina Park.

First, I want to start off and uh say thank you.

Thank you to Gary Santos for your years of service and for uh supporting the staff and workers in this town.

Um it's greatly appreciated, and you've given this town more than 20 years of your service and much longer in your professional life.

So thank you.

Mr.

Icofano, the same.

Thank you for your courage and your service to this town.

Mr.

Rambo, the same.

Thank you.

Um, Ms.

Whitley, I know you're leaving the council, and I hope you continue to remain involved.

Thank you for your courage and willingness to stand up for what's right.

And Mr.

Brownstein, thank you again for standing up for what's right.

I'm here to support the recommendations and outcomes of the wage and compensation study.

Um, as a former HR and learning executive, I support the investment in people.

And I think that that is something that is really critical to have a thriving town.

Um, a fair and competitive compensation package will keep people here, we'll keep people engaged, and we'll allow them to do their best work on behalf of our residents.

And I appreciate that you all that voted in favor of this um previously are not letting others influence or even bully you into trying to change your vote.

It's not appropriate.

The safety and security of our town and our residents is your priority.

So I think it's time.

Someone asked previously why now.

Well, our first responders and our key staff, they especially deserve better.

They deserve better from this town.

We're nearly 25% of our first or our firefighters are in their first year.

So those folks need mentoring, they need support, they need uh the reinforcement that comes from the the tenure of leadership on our fire uh department.

Our police numbers are low as compared to other towns, and yet it's it's a little daunting to think that we're we're low so low compared to other municipalities, and you probably even need to lower those numbers further because the SROs, and there are ten of them at our schools, um are part of that number.

So just think about that.

Um when I heard Chief Arnold recently say at the last HR meeting um that there was a uh desire and a need for more patrols.

When I heard Chief Mixon indicate that there are often three uh firefighters per truck.

Um that's concerning.

And and yeah, thank you.

Um concerning in the fact that that our residents deserve better and our people deserve better.

Thank you so much.

Next, please.

My name is Lisa Schnipke.

I live at 185 Mayogue here in Mount Pleasant.

Why is town council considering a change to the budget and compensation without input from the department heads?

I have great confidence in both the town administrator and our department heads.

Why not go through the budgeting process to consider staffing changes?

The department heads know what neat resources they need, and they can make those requests through their committees during the regular budgeting process.

Then council can consider and vote on a budget after you take the advice of the experts in the field.

Next, please.

You know, we're all neighbors, no matter where what part of Mount Pleasant we live at.

And it's important that we sit there and take care of those that take care of us.

I mean, these gentlemen and ladies, they put their life on the line at any single moment.

You know, that that 911 call goes in.

They don't know what they're going to, they don't know what they're gonna encounter, and it's important that we take care of them.

You know, I've said before at many different county meetings or council meetings that there's so many of our individuals that are driving outside of our area.

Well, now we have some individuals that are leaving and working outside of our area because they're not getting paid to work here.

So I thank the five of you that does you know stepped up and you know approved this.

And I hope the rest of you will sit there and consider this as well.

You know, we have our individuals that you know come in, whether they have an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, master's degree.

They're behind everyone else.

The only one that's not is the fire chief himself, is the only one that's either equal or slightly above what the other municipalities are getting.

So it's important that we continue to move forward.

And as I mentioned earlier, you know, we're looking at as far as the amount of money that we have.

Again, 58% behind of our earnings or as far as what the revenue that we have this year compared to uh last year.

And also, you know, the police department, their uh budget is two percent less this year than it was last year.

And the last thing, if we can just maybe we just look at our processes as far as the way we do things.

Every year we do a budget, you know, and then every four years we have the wage study, and then every five years, you know, the uh uh economic study.

So maybe we need to sit there and change things so that the wage study comes up before we sit there and do the comp uh the uh the uh comprehensive plan so that way it's a little bit more cohesive so that we understand, okay, this is what we need moving forward.

Thank you.

Next, please.

If there's no one else, we will close public comment.

Kevin Crenane, I trust you've received my emails over the last several years.

We need your address, please.

Um, and you have my address, sir.

The um I've sent emails for many, many years.

The fire department is in bad shape.

I had a neighbor of mine die in a fire in March.

The only person who responded to my email was Mr.

Tinky, and he said, Thanks for letting me know, Mike.

Spoke to Miss Hyatt, spoke to Mr.

Ikefano.

Probably spoke to Gary several times over the years, maybe Mr.

Brownstein, but nobody wants to take action on what's going on with the fire department.

They have we have an engine and a ladder at the gate of Durns West.

Took eight and a half minutes to get to my neighbor, and he was dead.

It's not a joke.

You're gonna have people that are gonna complain, oh, someone's gonna lose their home if their taxes go up a little tiny bit.

Well, they could lose their life if you don't do something about the fire department because it happened to my neighbor.

He wasn't super elderly.

And it's about the third one I could recall, maybe fourth in the last few years under this fire chief, where, oh well, they were old.

Oh, well, they were on oxygen.

If they're old and on oxygen, they're easier to find.

They're always in that same bedroom.

But you need the right crew to be able to go up and get them.

The Charleston crew that came from Canehoy took 10 minutes.

They went in the building three times.

That's a huge cardiac risk against those firefighters.

Does anyone care?

No, it's okay, right?

We'll just risk the firefighters for no, you know, they take enough risks as it is.

Twenty-five years later, I still have breathing problems from my service as a firefighter.

You know, it's not a joke.

The secretaries in this building get paid a lot of money, but in 25 years, they're not gonna have to worry about their service here.

First responders have to worry about that everywhere.

The fires would know how to where I worked because we're the busiest place in the world.

That it's the same risk.

And these people are risking their life and limb for our citizens, and they've been ignored under this mayor.

There's never a hearing about what how many cops do we need?

How many firefighters do we need?

Nobody cares.

Nobody cares.

It's time.

They need a raise.

We need to adjust the staffing.

The police department, you'll see statistics.

The mayor was sharing some this morning.

How oh, this crime dropped, that crime dropped.

That's a numbers game.

I was a cop close to 40 years ago now.

And they used to doctor the numbers a little bit after we make a report, somebody would turn a robbery into a larcy.

Somebody would turn a larceny into a lost property.

That started where I worked.

It comps that.

New York City under Bill Bratton.

So they took, they take statistics, things that actually happened, and they notch it down so that their stats look better.

And when you're running a statistic-driven organization like this place, this is what they tend to do.

They'll lower a crime here or there to tweak the numbers.

People know they're not seeing patrol cars in front of their house.

They don't drive by just on patrol.

They're only responding.

Your time is up.

They're only responding.

They're not patrolling.

If they patrol, you might have prevented that family from being terrorized down the block.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else for public comment?

All right.

Public comment is closed.

Item three, discussion and possible action to implement the wage study and consideration of possible action of additional additional personnel to the police and fire departments.

And I have uh some things I have to say here first before we go.

And please bear with me.

I want to give you a timeline of some of this.

Um September the 23rd at 1223 p.m.

Councilman Icon requested by email within 24 hours of the millage rate vote that we have a special town council meeting, which we are are doing right now.

Um there were no committee meetings uh in in between uh between the passage of that and the request for this special meeting, which bypasses the committee uh single-handedly and single-handedly instruct staff to develop a recommendation for how to apply the town's new millage rate capacity.

It even details how fire and police should allocate funds to quote additional public safety.

Another item on that email is the primary purpose is to review and move forward with the implementation of the wage plan.

At 4 30 p.m.

this past Thursday, after the draft agenda of this had been sent, we received uh council members received an email at 4 30 p.m.

on Thursday that it had been changed at that point to consideration and possible action.

Does this have anything to do with the agenda item at all?

Yes, sir.

I'm getting ready to make a motion and I have the floor, please.

Okay.

Consideration and possible action of the addition of personnel to the police and fire departments.

By then, the committee agendas had been set.

The committee's uh the uh agenda for this meeting is always published on for a uh committee day, and a special meeting like this is published on the Friday before to be in strict um by our interpretation, strict compliance with the Freedom of Information Act.

So if you go back to the vote on the millage rate, um this is a final vote that is being forced less than 14 days after only one committee, HR, got a first look at the report, and that committee did not vote.

They met again today, they did not vote.

So there's not a single committee recommendation coming to this.

And you would say, why didn't fire and police meet?

Because this vote usurped all of that to listen to and get all of all of this information.

And then when the agenda was changed for that, it was too late to change the committee agendas.

So they will be bypassing the fire, PJL, and finance committees with the only public input you heard today from three people without putting it on a monthly council meeting agenda, which more taxpayers can attend.

The millage rate vote debate was cut short in a goodwill gesture as at a request by Mrs.

Whitley, who had a legitimate reason, obviously, a medical appointment for her child.

But if the four of us who came out on the losing end of that vote had not uh acquiesced to that and had not listened to her wishes, that vote would have failed by a tie of four to four.

We have heard before no transparency, no buy-in, no tax.

There was no advanced information given to the public that their taxes were about to go up by 15%.

There was no public hearing, no numbers were put out for review, not even a motion or recommendation from the one committee that saw the report and never even voted on it.

Now, Ms.

Whitley, the four of us who uh respected your wishes at the last meeting, um, are asking you to respect our wishes not to engage in political theater with no transparency and no buy-in.

Why is this vote scheduled for today on committee day?

There's only one reason because there's an election in less than 30 days.

We never do budget items 30 days before an election.

I've been here next longest to Councilman Santos, and we have never ever done budgeting stuff that at this time.

There could be new members on this body in less than 30 days.

Council has had this report for less than 14 days.

Debate and fact finding was graciously trunk truncated before that vote in response to her personal request, which was honored.

Now the four of us, and we believe the majority of our tax-paying citizens are asking our fellow members who successfully passed the tax increase to show the same collegiality.

Trust the voters, trust who they send to this body in less than 30 days because they will be the ones who oversee this 5.2 million, and we were initially told 5.5 per year windfall, the second major tax increase in two years because taxes went up by four mils in 2023.

The stats are good.

People are putting out that uh there's a crime spree in Mount Pleasant, the crime numbers are down, attrition is down.

We have two dozen new recruits for the fire department who are in training right now.

If if you don't uh delay spending all of that money or applying all of that money right now, after the election, there will be one at least one new council member, and they can call, we can call a special council meeting, and then the and then the public will get to see all the questions that weren't asked or answered in the haste to make this look good before an election.

Here's some points from the approved minutes of the HR committee from the study, it focuses focuses on pay ranges rather than actual salaries.

Mr.

Ms.

Rehee says the study focused only on base pay, not on full benefits and packages.

We need answers to those questions.

There's one point in the report that says that one aspect of this, the most impacted areas are general staff, inspectors, IT groups, and certain uh upper echelon positions.

As to incentives, Mr.

Ms.

Rahey says that our educational incentives are a fraction of what peer organizations provide.

What what is the proposal for our incentives?

Rapid response via vehicles.

Chief Arnold wants more.

And nothing in the minutes from the committee meeting says that there would be a 15% property tax hike.

So with all of that in mind, the chair moves to immediately devise an amendment to the budget ordinance that would be first reading when that is delivered to us from the attorney to implement immediately the 1.5 million recommended in phase one of this report in the wage study, and the source of that will be left to the discretion of the town administrator.

Part B of my motion is to formally accept the 2020 25 wage study and refer it to all the appropriate standing council committees for in-depth analysis and review and for them to vote on the recommendations after receiving input from staff and send those back from council.

Do I have a second?

We have a motion and a second.

And I'd like to speak, Mr.

Chairman.

Yes, sir.

First of all, um, as chairman of the fire committee, we have not had a meeting to discuss these improvements for the fire department.

There are several things that might be just as important as some of what was suggested in the wage study.

It's difficult to live in Mount Pleasant for public service employees, police, fire, public services.

Maybe we need to look at that.

I don't know that that was looked at in that report.

I concur that we need to go forward and implement the report to the tune of 1,537,000.

We need to implement that at mid-year.

Mr.

Damore.

What kind of government do we have in Mount Pleasant?

What type of government governments recommended or not recommended, required under South Carolina state law?

Strong council, sir.

Strong council form of government.

As chairman of the fire committee, when we came to the budget process for 2025-2026, was the committee asked to give a recommendation to go to full council?

Yes.

And that recommendation included number of employees, equipment, and numbers and salaries.

Did it not?

Yes.

That being the case, why does the fire committee not have the opportunity to review the wage in hour study that was presented as it relates to the fire department?

So that when mid-year budget revisions are suggested the fire committee will have an opportunity to give our recommendation, just like when the full budget came out the first of July.

Is there any reason why we shouldn't be given that opportunity?

Sir, that's not a question for me to answer.

The HR study was given to council.

Now in whatever format that's taken up and reviewed is solely at the discretion of committee or council.

So the the point is that the fire committee, if we go ahead and implement the wage and hour study to the tune of 1.537 million, we can have that opportunity once we go back to the regular committee meetings for budget.

As is already mentioned, there is not an attrition rate with police or fire right now.

As was already mentioned, the town of Mount Pleasant has a great opportunity to help our public service employees maybe with something besides just wage now, maybe with additional money for education, maybe for additional money for living in the town of Mount Pleasant or living expenses.

The attrition rate is provided by staff for the fire department.

13% in 2022, 11% in 2023, 13% in 2024.

That's pretty good compared to other areas.

Compared to other communities, were mentioned by the mayor.

Chief Mixon, how many times have I asked if we needed a committee meeting or need to do things to resp in response to Mr.

Canain for some of the things he suggested?

I don't have an exact number, sir, but we have discussed that in the past.

I mean, you I email you every month and see if you have anything or if I have anything as part of protocol.

Yes, sir.

And we we weren't able to do that this time, were we?

Because things were rushed so fast.

Uh I mean, I I don't it's I can't really answer that question.

That's not up to me.

I mean I'm happy to have a fire committee any month that is required.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Tinky, you had your hands.

Uh I think it's um I think it's important that as I look down the line here, that every single person here, I believe, is for police and fire and compensating them competitively.

I don't think there's a single person that isn't, but I think it's a um it's just a difference of how it's how it's funded, not if it's funded, but how it's funded.

This happened in 2023, it happened in 2025, and I went back as far as Sherylwood Flowers, and this council has always stood behind police and fire.

So I think we're all for that.

So for those that are looking online or those that are here in the audience, make no mistake about it.

Not a single person, including myself are gets compensating police and fire, and making sure that they have the most competitive set of uh benefits that uh they can have.

Um the concern I I'm also for of passing the one point five million.

We've had time to look at it.

It took three months as we heard earlier to get that done.

We've had a matter of days to be looking at other uh additions, and so I think it's incumbent upon us to go um perhaps in the in the future a different process as far as the timing, but it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we have the time to look at that to make sure we have the right mix of benefits for these individuals, the right mix of benefits.

And I I do think that um uh the lodging is uh uh housing is part of it, but there may be other things as well.

So from my perspective, we can start immediately.

The the town administrator has a discretion uh without even c contacting us to take care of certain number of people, but let's go ahead and give the approval for the one point five and get that started.

I think it's important while we look carefully through the committee process at the others.

Again, I just want to be very, very clear.

We're all for uh police and fire, and uh and the other employees.

It's just how it's paid for, not if it's paid for, but how it's paid for, and the the taxes, tax money is there now, so we can do it.

And so let's let's pr proceed in that matter.

I think it would be the in the best interest of the the community that we go through the normal committee process.

Would you like the floor, Mr.

Fine?

Oh, that would be great, thank you.

I would like to first state that typically we typically that long grandstanding would happen after a motion, not before the motion.

Mr.

Mayor, I think you've hijacked this beating, and this is not the will of Haney, this is the will of council at this moment.

I think Mr.

Chapman brings up a great point.

Fire committee has not had a meeting.

You could just put an exclamation point on that.

You've had two meetings in two years.

So I don't know how we would hear back from the fire.

And as leaders, we're supposed to lead, not follow.

I appreciate the advice from the chiefs.

I appreciate the advice from the town administrator, but they don't hire us.

The citizens do.

So we lead the meetings we call what studies need to be done and what don't need to be done.

I um you know, mayor, you've been chair of PJL, I believe that's the chair of the entire time under your leadership.

I don't know why our attrition rate has as I would say risen.

And my question is when we talk attrition rate, is that is that bodies in, or is that does that include the missing bodies as well, uh the employees, if that makes sense.

So if we're supposed to have 80 employees and we have 70, and we have a turnover rate, are we counting the turnover rate on the 70 that are here?

Or are we counting the fact that we're also short um employees?

And then my other question is um I know with uh you guys if you guys want to get up, that'd be great to answer.

But I would um appreciate that.

Thank you.

Um chief, are we losing either one of you are we losing employees to other municipalities?

And I appreciate that the mayor in the last meeting mentioned that he talked at the Goose Creek mayor, the Goose Creek mayor to set to not get into a a wage bidding war, but that also happens to be the mayor that's stolen, I think four of our firefighters due to to wage.

I I believe something like that.

I I I don't think we should go to our competition to ask them if we should be competitive with them or not.

It's probably not the best person to ask.

So are we losing are we losing employees?

Are we losing public safety?

And is it at an alarming rate?

I can give you the numbers for last year because I have that on top of my head.

Uh three firefighters to Goose Creek, two to the city of Charleston and one to St.

John's fire department, and then others to the private sector, some federal jobs, things of that nature.

Okay, thank you.

And does your turnover rate include missing employees?

Like uh so if you're supposed to have 70 or supposed to have 80, we have 70, we're technically missing 10.

Is the turnover rate according to the 70 or according to the 80?

I I know that's not a real number, but yes, sir.

So we're basing it off 132 full-time employees.

Okay.

I look at that number and then do a simple calculation of uh we'll just call it 100.

If we lose 10 in a year, that's a 10% attrition rate is how I'm looking at it.

10% attrition rate on the number of employees we have, and not does not include the fact that we're still missing a ton of employees, basically.

Well, uh, the reason I do it that way around the spring of each year when we finish our recruit school, we're fully staffed.

And then throughout the year, you know, attrition happens slowly, slowly, slowly.

So there are periods of the year where we're fully staffed.

So I just do it the simple calculation to say, okay, how many employees do we have?

How many did we lose in that year?

That's that percentage of attrition rate.

Okay.

Thank you.

So the police department calculates it by um the number, not the budgeted employees, the number of actual employees.

So at the beginning of the year, how many employees do we have?

At the end of the year, how many employees do we have?

We average that and then divide by the number of people that left.

That's how we annually calculate our turnover rate.

Um we do lose uh people to other local law enforcement agencies.

Um last year was an anomaly.

You all know about the election.

So I don't I really don't factor that in.

Uh the previous year was two, previous year before that, two, year before that we lost six six officers to other local agencies.

Um, and so this year we've lost a couple people to uh other local agencies as well.

Thank you.

I would say that um, you know, uh uh uh another there was another mention of uh of another vote and transparency and and all that, and I think what was being brought up was the one percent sales tax.

I think we're talking about two different things here.

I think one the one percent sales tax was about tourism in the town of Mount Pleasant and bringing two and and that was a 240 million dollar tax to bring tourists into the town of Mount Pleasant.

I believe that there's five council members up here that are talking about the safety of the town of Mount Pleasant and not tourism.

So I think we're talking about two different uh two totally different subjects here.

And um, and I'm about safety and uh not necessarily about tourism.

So I'm about public safety.

I'm about taking care of our taking care of our public safety and making sure that they're here.

I don't want to find out what happens in four years when we don't have enough public safety.

I don't want to know what it looks like in four years when we haven't taken care of them.

So I get emails from firefighters.

I've had people stop me on the street.

Um, and I also believe that the chief mentioned at the last council meeting, I think Eric will back up on this.

The decisions that they make for their budget is what the council tells them they're allowed to spend.

They don't come to us and say I need more money because they know we're up for election and and and some people want to play political theater theater and worry about getting re-elected.

I worry about public safety, whether that gets me re-elected or not.

That will be my stance.

And my choice is not the smartest choice, because I'm up for election in a month, and I promised public safety, and I promised recreation.

And um at the end of this month, I can mic drop it, hopefully, with this vote that I did what I came to do, and uh, and that's where I stand.

So I don't worry about getting re-elected, and I don't care who the next people in are.

We should make that decision today with the decision that we made last week, and that is what we have to guarantee that our public safety is taken care of.

And that is where I stand, and that's where I will stand.

So thank you.

Well, Miss Mike Funnel, I want to thank you for proving my point.

Doesn't anybody get another isn't somebody supposed to go first?

I am the chair, and if you want to be the chair, you need to be elected mayor, okay?

So I was been elected mayor twice.

Doesn't everybody and I call order doesn't everybody get a chance to speak before the mayor does.

Okay, and you are out of order.

Okay.

So thank you for proving my point because you were getting answers to questions you didn't know the answer to, but you're absolutely sure that we can spend five million dollars today that didn't exist until last Monday when taxes were raised.

It was not a question during the budget process that we're only 90 days into, and you were just asking, how is attrition calculated?

Do we know if some of those were to be promoted?

Hopefully, we have great people, and they'll take an opportunity somewhere else, just like a lot of our department heads have done.

We've lost two.

We uh we lost two emergency coordinators uh because of that.

And the other reason they might be moving is to be closer to where their families are and where their kids are in school because they can't afford to live in this town because we need a housing allowance assistance.

How much is in this budget for that?

We don't know because it hasn't been through committees.

And I tell you this, talking about the council form of government.

If I had mayor, as mayor had sent to the town administrator telling him to quote develop a recommendation for how to apply the new military and how to allocate funds for additional public safety, the members of this council would and should be screaming because none of us have that authority under our form of government.

Not one of us can tell council how to do it, can tell staff how to do that without actions of council.

And what I hear you saying is you don't want it going through committees.

You want to ask the questions in this meeting, but you don't want the committees to ask the questions, and you just demonstrated that you don't know all the answers.

So how are you so certain about your five million dollar tax increase vote today?

Mr.

Brownstein.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um I do regret how personal this has become.

Um my understanding is there is a recommendation that was developed by the administrator and the chiefs, and I I think that we should hear that information.

That's what we came here to do.

And so I think it's a bit unusual to make a motion to basically circumvent or prevent that information from being heard.

Um so um I've I've got a lot of thoughts uh about public safety.

I'm hearing a lot of words about public safety.

Um, but really action is is what I'm most interested in.

And so I'm against uh your motion um to defer essentially defer this back to committee.

I think that our staff, including our chiefs, has uh spent a good deal of time analyzing their operations and they've put together a recommendation, and so I'm not quite sure why we're making a motion to prevent that information from coming to us today.

Um I also know it was uh very interesting during the HR committee meeting um earlier this morning to see a sample of the paychecks that our police officers and firefighters receive.

Um the example that was shown to us was a first year police officer after two weeks of of work on the road protecting and serving the citizens of Mount Pleasant, their take-home pay was $1,700 for a two-week period.

Uh I thought that was bad until I saw the the fire department um the test of of their their paycheck uh two weeks, twelve hundred dollars.

Uh I think we are at a point where we're losing qualified personnel to neighboring departments.

We've got a wage study that shows that we're falling behind.

We've got attrition numbers that show double digit uh attrition rates uh within our departments, although it fluctuates year to year.

Uh in my opinion, the the time for talk is is over and it's a time for action.

We should be hearing the information from our chiefs at this point, uh, not engaging in political or personal gamesmanship.

So thank you.

Mr.

Brownstein, you you have the floor.

You can ask them all of that information as part of your time on the floor if you would like.

No nothing stops you from bringing that information forward, just to be clear.

I think we should deal with the the motion at hand and then invite, assuming um it doesn't pass, then we invite the uh staff to present their presentation.

I just wanted you to know there was nothing stopping you if you if you wanted them.

Ms.

Hyatt and then Ms.

Willie.

I've as I understand the motion.

Um I believe we all want to pay our first responders and address the wage study and the shortfalls that we have as soon as possible.

And I think Mr.

Damore said we could probably start that as early as two weeks.

Um with the motion that would include going ahead with the and implementing the wage study, and then with the excess funding, it would just come back to committee for review.

I you know, we have a lot of people publicly for and against the situation, and I feel that we would get more citizens on board if we have more of a deliberate process on uh where and why the funding is going to our first responders.

I think we all agree that that's where we want it to go, but we want it to go where it needs to, and and not have something thrown together within two weeks.

So I'm I take no offense in the motion um and the idea of going through committee, we we won't get these funds until January, so I'm not really sure what the what the rush is to make a decision within two weeks and make sure that we are being responsible with the taxpayers' money and doing the best we can for our first responders.

So for me, it's a win-win.

They can get an immediate raise and then we can evaluate the situation through committees and make sure we're we're spending our tax dollars in the smartest way for the public.

Ms.

Wheel.

I uh disagree with Mr.

Brownsteen, and I would like to see the next slide, please.

And I have questions.

Can I say we're happy to provide information?

So in order for me to make a decision on this motion, I would like to understand what the proposal is from the town, because this item is wage study and consideration of a possible action to add additional personnel.

I would like to know what personnel is requested because and I would like to know.

So the vote is over of the millage rate maintenance at that's done.

And so we are going to be getting five million dollars annually for the duration.

The question is how to spend it.

I don't know, is all five million being spent on the next slide, or is just the 1.5 million plus four more firefighters, right?

Is that and then the remainder could go to committee easily.

So I would like to see the next slide so that I can understand how much of this five million is being spent today, and then how much is remaindered over four other things?

Because I am not in theory opposed to the motion.

I am very grateful that everyone accommodated me for my son's medical issue, and happy to report he's all good.

We're all good.

Yes.

So thank you so much um for all your thoughts um and prayers during that time frame.

Um, but uh, but yes, I would like to see the next slide.

I would like to understand how much of the five million would be apportioned under the wage study versus the uh possible addition of personnel and the request coming from the chiefs in that regard because I if I and then if the remainder of that five million then goes back to the various committees to understand where else it could be deployed.

I mean, how much in unfunded capital projects do we have in this town?

Oh uh couple hundred million dollars.

A couple hundred million dollars and transportation, and there's a bunch of safety things related public safety things related to transportation issues in this town and speed bumps and red light running and all these things.

So um I would like to see the next slide.

Yes, ma'am.

And we have that, and we did prepare that recommendation uh collaboratively.

Uh CFO harness will present it and we can talk through the major points.

So this is the recommendation of the five point just under 5.3 million dollars that we're going to be getting in from the merch.

Um this is looking at just the wage study components.

Uh the first phase is the 1.537 million that has been discussed already.

And Ms.

Harness, if I may there is a the mayor mentioned it a moment ago, the difference between the 5.5 and what's being shown on the screen of the 5.284 is the 5.284 factors in those who will not pay taxes.

That's from the county of what we expect the non-payable percentage to be.

So this represents the actual number after that, like delinquency.

Sir?

Like delinquency.

Yes.

Okay.

There's there's a collection percentage that gets factored in by the county, so that's why that's less than the 5.5 million.

Uh the second phase is the additional requested positions, and we have 12 additional positions for fire and police combined.

Um, this is looking at six firefighters on the fire department, and on the police side, four additional corporals and two additional CSOs.

Uh this number does include all the salary benefit related costs of these positions, including uniforms, equipment, additional vehicles, radios, etc.

All inclusive.

Mr.

May, quick question.

Um those are the the first year costs, right?

So, like once you hire a police officer and you give them a vehicle, um, presumably the year two cost is less because you're not having to outfit them again.

Correct.

Okay.

And do you know of that 2.1 million?

How much of that would be a first year cost uh versus a reoccurring cost?

The first year cost is going to be basically uh 210,000 for a police officer, and that if you subtract out about 80,000 for the vehicles and some of the equipment, that would leave you 120.

Ms.

Whitley, I should have asked because you still have the floor.

And I still I still want the floor.

Let's let's continue.

You still have the floor.

So the 5.3 minus the 1.5 minus the 2.1, that does still leave 1.63 million.

Um if we were going to look at doing additional salary increases on top of that for the fire and police departments, a one percent increase for those pay scales equals the number at the bottom, the 326,000.

So a four percent increase comes to 1.305 million that is sustainable over a five-year period, giving given that our compensation um expenses are approximately 61% of our general fund, and our property taxes are approximately 45% of the revenues coming in.

So I have a question then.

So this remaining for salary increases, this remainder is not in the phase one wage study.

This would be on top of the wage study.

Correct.

Okay.

Phase one is just the 1.537 ICLIN.

So in theory, I guess I'm I'm formulating a motion uh to amend.

But in theory, this 1.6 million, which will be more than that after year two, because this two million number is gonna go down once we outfit these um officers and bring them in.

That remainder um could then go back to multiple committees to determine how to expend those that remainder in the most effective way for the public safety or whatever this council future council decides.

So my motion would be to amend the mayor's motion to fulfill the additional requested positions requested by our chiefs, the additional 12 members of the fire and police department.

Is that the ones listed right here in blue?

That on this slide here that totals the 2.1 That's right, and then it's all it's only 2.1 in year one in year two.

That will drop by approximately $80,000 per police officer and firefighter per police officer.

For the firefighters, there is no vehicle cost, so the firefighters remains about the same.

That would drop approximately $500,000.

Okay, so so really then that would add to the remainder would be $2.1 million dollars.

That then this future council, whoever is elected, could then go through the multiple long committee bureaucracy government process and decide how and where to best deploy that additional $2.1 million dollars on year two onward, but we would fulfill the public safety needs by implementing our wage study and adding 12 six firefighters and six police officers immediately, or uh start the process immediately for um public safety.

And I think in principle that would fulfill the desires of all members of this council, not just with the wage study, but with the additional requested positions, and then the remainder could go back to committee um under this and would then be apportioned how a future council determines with additional public input.

So that is my motion is to amend uh the chair was second.

Okay, thank you.

All right, so we are now discussing the amendment, yes, sir, Mr.

Rambo.

Um I Gene, thank you for that amendment.

And and I do agree in in principle with uh having further discussions.

I was actually thinking slightly different that we would do the wage study plus the salary increases, but then have the additional requested positions um go back because uh the main reason that I voted for it is in and as a member of the HR committee, it was made very clear during um the presentation of the wage study that this would bring us up to like the area average basically, but we were still woefully behind the city of Charleston and police.

We were woefully behind the city of Goose Creek and fire.

Um doing an additional four percent increase on top of the wage study still doesn't get us to those levels, but at least it gets us a lot closer.

Um, and so uh that was the biggest reason that I was in support of it.

So um I guess my answer is I'll probably go no on this motion because I would like to actually see the phase one wage study and the four percent additional increase be implemented right away, and then potential further discussion on the best additional positions to add if that makes sense.

That's right, are you raising your hand or scratching your chair?

We just passed budget in July.

What was the salary increase just 90 days ago?

Uh average of three and a half percent.

Three and a half okay.

So by Mr.

Rambo's suggestion, it would be the three and a half plus four percent plus the wage study.

Is that I mean you haven't made a motion, but when you're I'm just thinking forward to our conversation.

Suppose it basically it would get us into the high average range of the area of first responder pay instead of average.

And then not so it wouldn't be top, it wouldn't be average, somewhere in the middle.

Okay.

So um it says so this four percent, this is just showing us the projection over five years that that's what we would have to accommodate moving forward, or we would implement this right away.

So um it's important to understand that both the 1.5, which is phase one, and the percent increase recommendation are both part of the wage study.

The weight study actually recommended six, and the four percent was landed on because of its affordability over time.

So it's it's in addition to so your wage study is the percentage, the one and a half, and then there's the positions on top of that to meet the revenue.

Okay, thank you.

I just want to clarify that nothing about the primary motion or the amendment prohibits any of this from happening.

It's just we go through look how many questions we have.

Look how many questions remain.

Okay, so that's why we have committees, this council structures on a committee basis.

We can do all of that, apply all of that, but let's don't rush a vote when it's demonstrated that we have so many questions on this.

Let's do this now.

I support the amendment.

Let's do that now.

Let's get that going.

That's this is what committees are for, and they don't have to be done in a rush because we're 30 days before an election.

That's the worst way to govern.

Mr.

Tinker.

Clarification.

Clarification on the 1.6 is part of the wage survey, did I hear you say?

Yes, sir.

Um, on your screen, phase one wage study is one of two components of the wage study.

So the 1.5 and the 1.6.

Those would go together as part of the wage.

That's the survey.

No, sir.

The 1.6 is uh let's see here.

It's what's remaining, it's just what's remaining after the phase one wage study and the requested positions, which was put in as kind of the second phase.

We can maneuver those around in a different order as is being discussed.

The wage study is two parts.

It is the phase one that says 1.537, and it recommended movement of six percent, which is not highlighted, and the reason why it's not highlighted was the affordability based on the revenue coming in.

Okay.

And then the two the 2.14 is uh new positions that uh just candidly, it's not I'm not against them, but we just are hearing about them on Friday afternoon.

So I this past Friday afternoon, so I just like to have personally I like to have a little more time to look at it and how it's how it's done, but um again, there's I don't think anybody on council that's against raising uh the the wage and salaries of our not only our fire employees but also other key personnel.

Mr.

Tinky, the chiefs are prepared to answer the reasoning behind those position requests.

Okay.

I have the floor.

Yes, sir.

I'm having a difficult time.

Hold on one second.

Just when it I'm having a tough time here because you're saying vote with the mayor and give it a say something.

Well, I have a tough time with you doing the same thing, sir.

I there's nothing in writing on here with me.

I'm trying to tell Gary to vote his own conscious and not to have you trying to say vote with the mayor on a piece of paper.

So I think this becomes a very difficult he didn't even see it, so I saw it over here when you flashed it to him.

So it's it it it's making it we talk about civility and everything else.

Can we concentrate on public safety, please?

That's what we're concentrating on.

This vote is getting very skewed with things like that item, and I realize I become a very unpopular person when I do things like that, but I'm not gonna stand for this kind of bullying, and I'm not gonna stand to try to change the person's mind.

He should vote the way he wants to vote.

We should vote for public safety.

I would like to hear from the chiefs on these additional bodies, please.

Sorry, Ms.

Whitley still has the floor.

Oh I'm sorry, Miss Whitley.

All of these questions were within your within my oh, I'm I'm happy to hear from the chiefs of police and the chief of fire to also understand why they want these positions.

I'm yeah.

Thank you for the question.

Um historically in our our previous strap plan and then this strap then we do discuss um and it came up at the last HR committee meeting um the the push to get four-person minimum staffing per day on the on the trucks.

Um twenty uh eighteen, we added six additional captains for our ladder trucks in 2020 you allowed us to go for the safer grant, which added six additional where we could uh staff those engines, two additional engines.

These six firefighters allow us to go after two additional engines as well with that four-person staffing minimum per day.

Staffing at five um with the goal of of having four on the truck, accounting for sick leave vacations, military time, things of that nature.

So that's what those six firefighters represent.

Can I um borrow your time for a second?

Thank you.

Um and and currently today, um, how how many of our um fire trucks um are at that four-person um federal standards?

Um yeah, so I I would say it is not statutory, it is a is a you know a consensus standard of the NFPA, but it is the industry standard that the is accepted nationwide.

Um it depends on our staffing.

Uh you know, this time of year with recruit school, uh we hit a lower staffing level in the fall, so we may not be able to always have those four, but currently we have four units staffed with that five.

And then um following up, if you added the six, um, where do you think that leaves you in terms of the uh the four-man um staffing crews?

So that's two ladders and then four engines.

It would leave us with two additional engines that would still be the goal in the future, but that'd be two engines or excuse me, two ladders and and four engines.

And uh real briefly, could you explain um the importance of of having four um person crews, how how that um I guess impacts the response uh that you provide at the scene?

True.

Uh thank you, sir.

Um I and I will say y'all have seen the data.

Fires are uh a small portion of our our call volume.

Uh they are high risk, low frequency, but the four-person staffing also helps on medical calls as well.

I mean, as as we alluded to earlier with with cardiac arrests and things of that nature, it takes a lot of hands to to do all the the deeds that that come with these these type calls.

So having four on the truck um is an extra person to to do extra tasks.

It it reduces the workload of just having three.

So really it's a force multiplier in the fact that that it's uh additional personnel scene, no matter what type of call to to assist and and get get the task done quicker.

And uh real brief, um correct me if I'm wrong when a um when a ladder truck um um comes to a scene and there's four people on it, how's that labor divided up as one?

My understanding is two kind of go in, one operates the ladder and then one climbs to the top to to cut a hole in the roof to clear the smoke out.

Is that it generally go that way?

It it depends on their arrival order.

Um it depends on the the situation that they find.

Um sometimes they'll split in two and two, and two will go interior for search, two will stay outside to soften the structure, turn off utilities, things of that nature, or if the ladder needs to be deployed, one to two stay behind to to affect that and get the ladder to position.

Now, a scenario where there's just three on that engine, how does that change uh what they do when they arrive to the scene?

Well, search would always be our our priority, so those two firefighters will go in and do their their search.

Um one firefighter can still soften the structure on the outside.

Um it it does increase that workload, and one firefighter or the or the driver can and still set up the truck alone, but again, that takes additional time.

So having that additional person uh reduces the time for both of those tasks.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate it.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Um then for the uh and just to clarify the N National Fire what's the name of the N FBA, National Fire Protection Association.

And they recommend it's not statutorily required, but they were they highly recommend four on the trucks, is that correct?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

And for Chief Arnold.

Thank you.

Yes.

Mayor, before Chief comes up, I had a question.

Okay.

Yeah.

Chief.

How many personnel do we have in training right now with our uh very strong training program?

Yes, sir.

We had 21 uh recruits that started last Monday.

That 21 recruits that started last Monday, as opposed to the needed six firefighters that you're asking for now, right?

Well, how many empty positions are there?

I guess is the question, right?

We have 21 empty positions.

And you want six additional people on top of filling those 21 positions.

So we don't technically have 21 empty right now.

We started with 15, uh, got approved to hire 28.

And uh and Mr.

Moore has been gracious enough to allow us to count for upcoming retirements, which we have several people with 25 to 35 years that are gonna retire before the school ends.

So we account for those, uh knowing that those will be instant vacancies, and then we do a little bit of overhiring just for attrition out of the class or additional attrition out of the department.

So we started with 15.

Um, but six direct hires were hired, and now we have 21 in the recruit school.

So it's not you're not so I guess Mr.

Chapman, I just want to clarify it's not like those six firefighters additional quests are coming out of the 21.

These are six additional positions.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, okay.

I made my point.

Okay.

Ms.

Whitley.

Um Chief Arnold, thank you, Ms.

Whitley.

No, thank you.

So the um additional corporals, um our goal for quite some time has been to have a patrol team staff with a sergeant and two corporals.

Mainly that deals with span of control.

There's there's eight district, there's eight officers.

It's hard for one supervisor to be everywhere in town.

So reduce that level of uh supervisory responsibility to the lowest level possible, which corporal nice thing about corporals is they also function as police officers.

So they will handle calls for service along with the four officers in the northern end of town, the four officers in the southern end of town.

So um when the sergeant needs to take a day off, the senior corporal step into that role of supervisor.

So that has been a long time goal for us to to have that level of supervision um on the patrol teams.

CSOs, they're a tremendous workforce multiplier.

When I started in 1995, we had six CSOs.

We're trying to get back to six CSOs.

There's a lot of reasons why that happened over the years to include the going to consolidated dispatch, different reasons.

But nevertheless, um if a CSO is working a sminer traffic collision in a parking lot, that means a police officer is not doing that, and that police officer is then taking enforcement action, stopping cars for running red lights, um, patrolling in neighborhoods doing uh that enforcement activity.

So uh for every CSO we add, it increases the operational capacity of the sworn police officers.

Thank you.

And so um as a I know some people have thrown around the numbers of like the number of police officers that we have per thousand residents or something like this.

Where would I mean I don't know if you know the number, like where would this put us?

It would we're at around 1.7.

It would raise us slightly.

Um it would take a very large number increase to get to 2.1 or 2.3 officers per house.

Which we which and in our crime rates compared to Charleston are you know that I'm but the um one of the things that I've noticed in our community is so would this addition of corporals enable for more patrolling of neighborhoods, more patrolling of major thoroughfares and that kind of thing would be more more officers sort of policing stuff with public safety on the streets.

Is that what this would do?

Yes.

Okay, because I know like I mean, just sitting at a light and seeing three cars run the red light, right?

And this is a very common occurrence in all the mommy groups and all the the that I'm in.

People are just posting like all there's just so much of that happening because there isn't that presence, I think, of like getting you know of of enforcement that because of the the need for some more officers.

So um thank you so much for for um putting in that request.

Um and I think uh I think is there any other slide that oh the question I have.

So this remaining for salary increases, this is phase two of the wage study.

It's not listed as phase two of the wage study.

No that's just what you're seeing in front of you.

The wage study had two components.

It had the one five and the recommendation to move a percentage along, which is what you're seeing at the bottom of the page.

I see.

So okay, and and is there another is there are there more slides that I'm missing in this presentation, or is this it?

We don't have any additional pre slides.

Perfect.

So just we've now seen what is out there.

All right.

Thank you.

I yield the floor.

Mr.

Moore, um, may I ask the this is great information.

We appreciate it.

Is this what was sent to council members Friday afternoon?

Yes.

Okay, so we got this Friday afternoon.

All right, we have an amendment before us made by Mrs.

Whitley before we vote to repeat that amendment.

Just spend a lot of sense.

Um uh addition to uh to committee for discussion of of how to uh appropriately deploy that.

All right.

So just real quick if I can have the floor.

So we we're the money is coming in.

Public safety is paramount.

You stating so a yes vote to your amendment and uh and the and a yes vote to then the mayor would mean that this money can go back for anything at that point.

Could be any pet project could be to move a tree or give out gift cards or um I think that the it would just the first one point five and second two point four, and whatever that is into the future, that would already be a portioned, and it would just be the remaining one point six that would be up for additional discussion and um and public input.

But the that four percent increase was also second part of the wage study to make us uh uh phase one wage study doesn't really does it make us competitive or it's just incentive based, doesn't really get us we're average at that point, is that correct?

This the study um the study indicated that two needs existed.

One was um a lack of competitiveness with incentives and the salary, and one point five three seven is incentives, meaning incentive based incentive based.

When somebody gets a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, we are not competitive, we are not competitive with educating.

We do a great job, and the team does a great job educating themselves.

We just don't pay them extra like our competitors are that is phase one, and the remaining dollars for salary increases was phase two, which then made us competitive across the board.

I don't know what level of competitiveness are we top tier, mid-tier?

So we had no prepared so we have all these other slides of information minimized in the event they may be questions we couldn't answer.

I think we may have that somewhere.

I want to refer to the HR directive.

But I I believe in the HR committee meeting we discussed that did not even get we're not even we're average at that point, even with the four percent.

Didn't make a reference.

So give us a moment to locate okay, thank you.

Anticipating that question.

Eric's gonna find the slides, but we do have a couple slides that um that are prepared that show the current salary for one for each police and fire.

Um the current salary if you add on the proposed educational incentive if you add on proposed specialized training incentive, um, and then if you add it on the four percent.

Thank you.

Um so if you see there where uh the third line where it starts the bold, that's the current wage.

Um if you follow the bachelor's degree column, that's probably the easiest if we all follow that same one where the yellow highlights are.

Um you add on the educational incentive, you add on training incentives, um, and then you can see for each one percent what it would be.

But if you go ahead and add on the four percent, that's what the wage comes to, and then you can see how that compares with Goose Creek, for example, at the top.

So still below and Goose Creek is top.

Yes.

Still fire goose creek is the top.

Still below Goose Creek by 5,000.

That's with the education incentive.

That's with the four percent incentive.

Puts them at 56,352 compared to 61,149.

So it is with the educational incentive for a bachelor's, um, and it is with the four percent if you're moving the entire scale that way.

Um that's 4,796 less than our and we lost how many did the goose creek just out of curiosity.

Three percent of our last year.

How many chief said three in the last year?

Okay.

I would say yes, they're a tough competitor for us.

Okay.

Um the incentives that we talked about are below that, so you can make up some ground with some of those incentives, but that's the bottom line of where we are or where we would be.

And then similarly with police, if you look at the bachelor's degree, the column that's highlighted, um, you've got our current rate adding in the new um bachelor's incentive, educational incentive, um, and then what the four percent would be.

You can see the difference there.

So without excuse me, without the four percent increase part of it, that's basically going to bring that difference.

Uh meaning we're lower than that now, but with the education incentive, and if we don't add the four percent, you could add two thousand four hundred and fifty dollars to that negative four one five eight.

So that's gonna put us at basically sixty-five hundred dollars lower than three miles that way, correct?

Yes.

So um so with the four percent, we're still four thousand one hundred and fifty-eight below our yes, and similarly, some ground could be made up for with some of the incentives that we've looked at increasing or adding for specialized training.

So you can make up some of that ground with those.

That's that's that's why it makes it difficult.

And and I'm very scared without earmarking this money now on what special projects it can go to.

That is probably the scariest part of today.

I'm extremely scared of that.

I voted for a reason.

Five of us voted for a reason.

Five of us voted for a reason to put this money towards a cause and anything other than that cause today is the most in my mind dangerous part of government in which the money is not being allocated to where it needs to be allocated.

That is what the citizens are afraid of.

That is what makes citizens so scared that government to entrust their money with the government that when you do and you do take tax dollars from them that that money doesn't go exactly where it goes, which was you know, with the referendum was a great thing, it had to go where it had to go.

Here we are being entrusted with this money, we must do something with that money.

That money in my mind needs to go exactly where the five of us said it was going to go on that original vote.

I would like to add to that.

This is why I put it that this would uh come to a first reading to be part of the budget, so it's sufficiently done.

Um let me ask a point of order.

Um Mr.

Pagini, um after an election, if there are five new faces up here, can that council change uh are they bound by any vote of this council?

They could change it in 30 days, right?

Correct, sir.

37 days, yes.

So um also when the tax increase was passed, there that was not a budget uh meeting.

That was simply setting a millage rate.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay, so that point was made, right?

That that we can't bind the future council uh on what to do with that.

Is that correct?

That's correct, sir.

Okay.

All right.

Are we prepared to vote on the proposed amendment?

I would state we can't find a future council to anything, so why vote on anything?

Because nothing is binding.

Anybody can overto anything.

Let them let them take the money back then in 30.

That's that's what this is all about.

I know.

Um Mr.

Tinky.

I want to be I want to be clear again.

My vote previously was not a no vote for raising police, fire, and other uh positions.

It was not a no vote.

It was just a time to look at the this information that we got on Friday afternoon in more depth and understand how to do it.

Uh at the end of the day, I'm I'll vote for police and fire and and the other positions, but I think it's incumbent upon all of us to take some time to be able to uh thoroughly vetted whether it's police judicial legal, whether it's finance, whether it's fire, whether it's HR.

So the characterize it as a no vote is inaccurate.

All right.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

This is on Mrs.

Whitley's amendment.

Can you restate the restate the whole thing?

Ms.

Whitley, would you restate the amendment one more time?

It's just move to to amend.

Can we go back to one slide?

Move to amend to implement the phase one wage study and the and the authorization of additional of additional requested positions and then the number of six firefighters, four corporals and two CSOs at this time, and then a de and and then a deferral of the remainder to committee.

Right.

Will the clerk please call the roll for the this we're voting only on the amendment Mr.

Brownstein?

I think we should do this all at once, like we stated that we would during the special council meeting, and for that reason I'm a no.

Mr.

Brownstein votes no.

Mr.

Chapman?

Yes.

Mr.

Chapman votes yes, Ms.

Hyatt.

Yes.

Ms.

Hyatt votes yes, Mr.

to committee all right will the clerk please call the roll for the this we're voting only on the amendment mr brownstein i think we should do this all at once like we stated that we would during the special council meeting and for that reason I'm a no mr brownstein votes no mr chapman yes mr chapman votes yes miss hyatt yes miss high votes yes mr ikayfano i agree with mr brownstein this money must be guaranteed so for that reason i'm a no vote mr acafano votes no mr rambo no mr rambo votes no mr santos aye mr santos votes yes mr tinkey mr tinky votes yes miss whitley yes miss whitley votes yes mayor haney yes mayor haney votes yes six to three the motion carries so we now have an amended primary motion yes I'd like to offer an amendment please yes sir um I'd like to um add in the the missing part which is the four percent raise second uh I I have a question uh we have a motion and a second we are in discussion yes if if we were to add in that additional amount is there any remainder to defer to committee no yeah there's still like three three out of the is there any remainder to defer to committee as far as pieces or money money like if if so if we go to that slide and if we with I guess Mr Mr Brownsing's amendment to the motion would there be any remainder on an annual basis that the committee could then make a determination on I I don't believe there is ma'am because that 327000 that's in that's highlighted goes away because the wages outpace the growth of revenues to the town and so that goes away that there would be a uh a segmented amount based on whether you know on on the the vehicles every year not being an ongoing expense but I don't think it's a I would not characterize it as a significant amount um that would have to be decided upon a committee.

I see I I guess then I just I one I just I'm curious is that a is that an Mr Paglarini is that amend is that an amendment to a motion or is that like basically an should that be a new motion once this motion is voted on.

No I mean it is an amendment as the progression has occurred I mean the simple ways that the mayor's motion was for green your amendment was to add blue and now the second amendment is to add the yellow portion I realize it all gets to uh conceptually approving everything on the screen but that is the process that council has brought forward and this amendment is going to be voted on independent of the main motion which has now been amended okay thank you um so I have a point of order if the motion puts everything in there that the one that just passed the amendment that just passed had us going back to committees and negates that is that pro is that a proper motion it is proper mo it's a proper amendment sir proper amendment right yes okay okay Mr Rambo um so I'll be voting yes on this amendment um because uh I do believe that our police and fire do a job better than average and they deserve pay better than average um and that's what this four percent increase does um and like we saw in the previous slides it still doesn't get us to the top earners in our area um but I am a yes vote in supporting the families of our first responders Mr.

Brownstein if you don't mind I have a a question so in the report that went to HR and uh we didn't get a vote from from HR or recommendation on any of this it mentions general staff inspectors IT groups and certain upper echelon management positions how much of this four percent in your understanding on this vote goes to those people zero percent because that's just for the police and fire department is that correct yes sir thank you and these are police and fire department staff your mix that's you're mixing up the the wage survey looked at other positions this four percent increase is strictly for police and fire all right so if this motion if this amendment passes then there's nothing to go back to committees there's no is is that understood because every piece of the 5.284 um million dollars and this which we have not had for 24 business hours will be fully appropriated um yes miss whitley um just the the four percent increase is a straight across the board salary increase for police and firefighters is that correct for every single position gets a four percent increase is that correct yeah good yes it is the four percent would increase the entire police pay scale so every position would be increased four percent therefore everyone in each position would be increased four percent I see so just fire and police phase one wage study is

Is that correct?

For every single position, it's a four percent increase.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Yes, it is.

The four percent would increase the entire police pay scale.

So every position would be increased four percent, therefore everyone in each position would be increased four percent.

I see.

So just fire and police.

Phase one wage study is incentive-based for positions across the town account.

So the phase one wage study has um a portion for police fire, and then everyone else will call it.

Um that includes wages for police and fire.

There was just an adjustment of one position in each of those, and then incentives for each of those, um, and then a town portion.

So the police wages and incentives together is around 615,000 fire, the wages and incentives comes to about 587,000, and then for the town it was just wages or specific condition uh positions, and that was 335,000.

And even with this 4% increase, as Mr.

Rambo said, this puts us in the middle average or like the not the it doesn't take us to being a leader in wages.

Correct.

It gets us much closer, but we are not there yet.

Okay, and this would then earmark the full 5.2 million, 5.284 million.

And and Mr.

Pagovini, if this were to pass and this would be implemented today, this would begin in January once we start collecting the funds, is that correct?

Or this would start no ma'am.

It would be we would need a reasonable amount of time administratively to structure it and build the model to implement this.

And and all I can say is that we would implement it as quickly as possible.

Um, but our budget, as you know, starts July 1.

Most of our money doesn't start rolling in until January, February.

We're already spending using reserves to spend as far as Clinton's cash flow.

So we would implement that's the same way.

We would implement as quickly as possible, start paying our people as quickly as possible.

Money comes in January, February for the most part.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

I would like to just make a statement.

I believe a no vote is a vote against our first responders.

I also believe a no vote is a vote that tells the public we're not gonna tell you exactly where your money is gonna go.

We'll decide on that later.

I believe that the public is scared, and they're scared that when they give us taxes that it goes to you know, special projects or special pet projects.

This money needs to go to our first responders.

I will be a yes vote.

I'm in favor of our first responders, and they and this just gets us to the mid-range of competitiveness.

Mr.

Tinky.

Okay, there we go.

There is a scare tactic here because I'm not doing that, and I I think we need to have time to see what the mix is of how these are paid.

There's other ways that we can pay, which could be housing allowances, they can be different ways of paying people, but I'm for getting the money to the police and fire and to the other people.

Uh so it's not in my vote.

I'm not voting for special projects or other things other than the wage.

I'm just wanting to deliberate wage and compensation.

I'm voting to deliberate and just make sure we have the right mix to make sure our people are getting the best pay and compensation and benefit package that's possible.

And I don't think it has to take very long, quite frankly.

I think it can be done expeditiously so as we start implementing the wage, a wage an hour, as we've already talked about, we can follow behind it with how it's how it's done.

Oh, let me ask um, but I'll I'll just stop at that.

Okay.

I'll take the the chair will take advantage to say that um we just had a six to three vote to uh do the first two parts of this and to allow the committee structure of this council, which is the council form of government by law to allow the committee structure to do its job.

We just heard the town administrator say it takes time to build that structure, but the fear task tactic has been put out there that somebody's gonna take that money and use it for something else when the motion specifically says it goes to finance, fire, and police.

And so a no vote for for this, a yes vote for this, is to bypass that, not trust the committee s system, not have more public input, not put out there what we're thinking about doing.

Friday afternoon to go through these numbers, and we've been asking questions for an hour and a half, proving my point that we do not know enough about all the details of where this money's going and how to do it effectively to vote on it all right now at 1225 on a Monday.

So, you know, a six-three vote to send it to committee and then break that down and do it effectively.

That's what uh uh a no vote on Mr.

Brownstein's amendment is for, and that's why I will be a no vote.

Are we prepared to vote?

All right.

Will it be?

So I guess what I'm and this is why when we were talking about breaking up uh initially, I was thinking, oh, maybe it'd be better the additional requested positions are more discussed in committees because it phase one wage study did not give our first responders enough of an increase.

So I don't know what there is to discuss about what level of increase we're gonna give out if this goes back to committee.

We it's this is what's available.

This is what said what we were gonna do with it, is they were gonna get increases, and so I don't know what there is to discuss with this yellow part.

That I guess that's where I'm at.

I mean, I'm I want them to get the four percent increase.

I I don't know how that would be parsed up.

I don't want it to be parceled up, and then all of a sudden there's more positions added added in our police and fire don't get the increases that the whole reason I voted for it in the first place.

So anyway.

Will the clerk please call the roll, please?

A yes vote uh is in favor of Mr.

Brownstein's amendment.

Mr.

Chapman No.

Mr.

Chapman votes no.

Ms.

Hyatt, no, Ms.

Hyatt votes no, Mr.

Ikefano.

Yes, Mr.

Ikafano votes yes, Mr.

Rambo.

Yes, Mr.

Rambo votes yes, Mr.

Santos.

Uh no.

Mr.

Santos votes no.

Mr.

Tinky.

No.

Mr.

Tinky votes no.

Ms.

Whitley.

Yes.

Ms.

Whitley votes yes.

Mr.

Brownstein.

Yes.

Mr.

Brownstein votes yes.

Mayor Haney.

No.

Mayor Haney votes no.

Five to four.

Five to four.

Now let's go back to the original motion as amended that will send this back to the police, fire and judicial, um, police, legal and judicial committee, the fire committee, and the finance committee to uh do what we have proven uh here today to find out the best way to do all this to look at housing incentives and other incentives and to spend this money on what it's intended to be, and that is to make us effective in this.

Is it is there any further discussion on the motion as amended?

All right, I would add uh HR B HR committee.

Any committee is is is fine, but the motion specifically sends it there, and the intent of that was to assure the public that those are the committees that will be looking at how to use this money because that's what it was intended for.

Will the clerk please call the roll, please?

Ms.

Hyatt, yes, Ms.

Hyatt votes yes, Mr.

Icafano.

I don't I only vote yes because I know that our our first responders are going to get at least a portion of what's happening here.

I don't agree in which the manner with this is happening, but I vote yes.

Mr.

Icovano votes yes, Mr.

Rambo.

Yes, Mr.

Rambo votes yes, Mr.

Santos, yes, Mr.

Santos votes yes, Mr.

Tinky.

Yes, Mr.

Tinky votes yes, Miss Whitley.

Yes, Miss Whitley votes yes, Mr.

Brownstein.

I do believe that this 4% should go to the police and the fire department, and I'm committed to do anything that I can to make sure that lives up to the our words at that special town council meeting.

I will vote yes, and then we need to follow this with action.

Mr.

Brownstein votes yes, Mr.

Chapman.

Yes, Mr.

Chapman votes yes, Mayor Haney.

Yes, Mayor Haney votes yes.

Motion passes unanimously.

All right.

That ends our agenda item.

Uh if there is nothing further, the last item is to adjourn.

1230.

Is that transportation?

Yeah, thank you for the goodness.

I'm not on transportation fundraising.

We have a transportation voting.

I was so busy to no shit.

Why do we get transportation over there?

Why don't we get transportation over?

Is it 1230?

It's 1230 right now.

I got to go to the bathroom three and then you'll see the quick.

Good luck, guys.

I'm glad I get to go with the shop.

Oh, so we got another one transportation committee meeting.

Yeah, we got transportation.

So uh mayor, you you good?

Thank you.

You want me to talk about the main door sandwiches?

Now I get to move again, right?

I know.

Couldn't even put it in.

It's just starting right now.

Tell me what I need you to do.

I'm sorry.

You've been here a long time.

You know what to do.

Did you get the one grab?

I miss that.

Oh no, you know.

Wow.

Uh now.

I don't think so.

Paint it.

It'll go 30, but I don't think it'll go on that way.

Oh yeah.

You want to find the when this is over.

That way or that way.

Transportation.

I'll come I'll come out this door and find me.

Sounds good.

No, I'll talk about that.

He went to that and I have to start this committee meeting and I will talk to them as soon as I'm done.

Mayor we have one.

Huh?

Yes.

I don't know where Daniel went.

That was paint, man.

Someone sees council and that was painting.

Oh yeah, I did see the full one.

I've never seen that one.

I know.

Thank you, man.

They were trying to meet me up, man, trying to get me to go with them.

There's nothing on the committee because the boat stop flowing.

Yeah.

What a meeting.

Oh Lord.

You see where it is, right?

Nowhere.

Yeah.

All right.

We got transformed.

Sorry.

I think I grabbed your feet by accident.

Oh, that looks like we'll hand write.

It does.

If you can read that, you're in really good shape.

So um I I don't think I think I had one.

I gave you one of those cities.

I might have an example.

We have a quorum.

Yes.

Brad, we're missing one member, but we do have a quorum and and we're at time, so we are.

If y'all see Brownstein, would you ask him to come to a meeting?

Is he in the room?

I think he was went to the restroom, but I'm not sure.

Okay.

Let's give uh a minute, another minute here.

Oh you know, I was gonna check.

I think I sent something to CT.

Yes, I responded.

I haven't seen anything going.

Yeah, all right.

Well, I didn't Brad, you got off everybody you need in place for when we when we start.

Pardon me?

You got everybody in place for when we start.

Yes, sir.

Okay, for you that you need.

Is Councilman Brownstein out there?

I just was checking on Okay.

Well, we ought to start five minutes late.

Yes, we should start.

Let me call to order the Monday, October 6th Transportation Committee meeting of Mount Pleasant Town Council.

It's good to see everybody here.

Item number two is approval of the minutes from the September 2nd, 2025 meeting.

Move for approval, Mr.

Chairman.

We have a motion and a second.

Any discussion?

All in favor, say aye.

Motion carries.

Item number three is public comments.

If you're here to make a public comment, please come forward, give name and address, and two and a half minutes, please.

Um my name is Helena Stickle, and I reside at 2291 Primus Road.

I want to talk about something simple yet essential.

Trees.

They are so important to me that I took time out of my busy work day to be here today.

So trees, they produce oxygen that we breathe.

They absorb carbon dioxide to fight climate change.

They provide crucial habitats for wildlife.

They prevent soil erosion.

They provide cooling temperatures and shade.

They mitigate flooding.

They function as a sound barrier.

But most important, they provide human, they improve human health by purifying the air we breathe and offer mental health benefits like reducing stress.

My neighborhood, pointy at Primus, will be directly impacted by the Mount Pleasant Way and the Bailey Swales Extension Boulevard.

This development will be right alongside our HOA property.

There must be some way to save as many trees as possible in the forest before the soon to be built 12-foot paths for Mount Pleasant Way is constructed.

Some of the old pine trees need to be saved, even if it means making the path 10 feet in certain sections instead of the 12-foot paths.

Please work with the tree task force to find ways to save as many trees as possible.

Please stop this heartless destruction of trees.

Thank you.

Next, please, for public comment.

David Svetman, 3429, Tumor Kiln Circle.

Good afternoon.

You know I've been outspoken about the road to compromise.

I've always stayed fact-based, spoken from the heart, but today I need to be blunt.

There is no clear signal that this plan is off the table, and that silence is not acceptable.

Here's the facts.

Devastating wetlands, trees, and wildlife, and could render more than 10 acres of large hill park useless.

It's the costliest by about 50 million dollars.

It diverts highway traffic into residential roads, never designed for it.

And the county plans show sound barriers are required, and the community will face greater safety risks.

And with the lay emergency responses from fire station number five in Duden's West.

And worse of all, this is all based on a theory.

Right now, about 30% of Highway 41 traffic bypasses the Phillips community.

The county claims it can divert another 30%.

That we put more traffic on the two-laden section of Park West Boulevard, a residential road than what's on 41 today.

That's a catastrophic catastrophe waiting to happen.

Bottom line, emotional politics is taking over which should be factual, pragmatic solutions for 41.

The road to compromise is a threat to safety and a betrayal to the residents you represent.

Every week people stop me in my neighborhood and in stores and on my morning walks, and they thank me for speaking up.

But then they ask, what is the town council doing?

And I struggle to answer that question.

So I'm asking you, please tell our community where you stand, show us that you hear us, show you that represent all of Mount Pleasant, not just the area south of town center.

You have a chance to do what's right.

Stop this plant before it does irreversible harm.

I've offered my time to this council and the county council to review data, support a fact-based solution, and that offer still stands.

Mayor Haney recently took me up on my offer, and I hope I didn't waste your time.

Some others have asked asked me what do I support?

Do I support five lanes, four lanes, three lanes to the Phillips community?

So I want to make this crystal clear.

My efforts are about stopping the wrong plan, which is the road to compromise.

Fix the problem where it exists.

Highway traffic does not belong on residential design roads.

Please do everything that you can to stop the road to compromise.

And watch what happens with our tax dollars.

They're being misspent in this effort.

And you talked quite a bit earlier about how we apply tax dollars and we need to know where they're going.

This is a key example of that.

Thank you.

Next, please for public comment.

Hello, um, to the members of the committee.

Um normally you don't see me at this meeting, and one would think that um I brought Helena from Primus, but um actually she was coming before me.

And oh, I'm sorry, Michelle Stress.

I see Michelle Stress, 545 verandaver.

I know everybody knows me because I don't say it.

Um so yes, so I Helena is a friend of mine, and I found out that she was coming here today, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna back you on that because I had no idea what was what the the Mount Pleasant Way was going to be directly behind her home.

Um I have been to her home, and it is it really is they this poor neighborhood.

This is a neighborhood, it's a small neighborhood, it's a neighborhood of families.

So they are unfortunately uh they're not a lot of them are not able to come to this because it's a 10 o'clock meeting during, or I'm sorry, a noon meeting during the day, and they work.

These are working families.

And so they are being assaulted on three sides.

They've got the rifle range park that's going in that's gonna tear down all those trees.

That I'm sorry, that god-awful floor and decor that went in and has just bulldozed all of those trees, and now they put pipes in and the pipes are draining on their side.

I mean, it's really an atrocity.

And then they're going to have the um the Mount Pleasant Way that's gonna go right behind the right right behind on the third side.

And after looking at that from satellite images, I don't understand in some of the areas of Mount Pleasant Way why we cannot use existing sidewalks.

So if it comes across uh or sweetgrass parkway, and then it's it takes the left and it goes up and it goes up and around on the sidewalks in front of Home Depot in front of Sphinx.

We could create a planted buffer there.

We could use it, you know, jog that around and use a different way to get around rather than going cutting through these neighborhoods, cutting through um all these, all this virgin woodland.

I mean, it it's it's the last remaining place.

And you know, I'm always here talking about how to save the trees and save the the habitats.

I mean, this is our last, this is a last look.

If you look at it from a satellite, it's the last green little stamp we've got.

Um, so and then the last thing I just the irony of the residential program is that we're trying to reach out to um schools and to HOAs.

Helena's on the Primus HOA board, and so is another woman that's here with her.

So, what sort of message are we sending?

Hey, let's let's be more sustainable, let's do the right thing by the environment.

Let's make our HOAs more sustainable.

And by the way, we're gonna we're gonna plow down 12 feet of of virgin woodland in your backyard.

So I just implore you, please send this, send this to Green Commission and Task Force.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Public comment.

All right.

If not, we will move to um item number four and update on Rivertown Parkway in South Carolina, highway 41 intersection.

I know there's a lot um, and um think there's a new bank going in um out there, and I've been hearing from residents.

I think other members have.

So we wanted to um see what's going on and and look at what the alternatives might be.

And I know y'all have been working on it.

So thank y'all so much.

Yes, sir, Mr.

Mayor and committee members, happy to update you on this intersection.

So there has been some recent development uh on on the parcel over there near the intersection, which has uh added additional traffic to to that river town approach.

So in preparation of that, we have worked with SC DOT to warrant the installation of a four-section flashing yellow signal head.

This allows us to provide both a protected green arrow, but also a flashing yellow arrow.

Um we have again since last committee collected additional data and implemented our adaptive signal technology, the same system that's along 17 in the Coleman Pinsoyer corridors, and this allows us to see a real-time uh update of of traffic volumes, including turning movements.

And and since that data was collected, we have developed a report which has been sent to DOT that warrants the implementation of a time of day left turn phase, a protected left turn phase uh during the times listed here 345 to 545, so two hour period in the PM peak that sees that heaviest left turn volume that meet those minimum thresholds that DOT requires.

So two hour period in the PM peak that sees that heaviest left turn volume that meet those minimum thresholds that DOT requires.

Okay, I see it.

And and so this has been implemented today uh as received approval from DOT.

So it will be working here in a few hours.

Uh and then staff will continue to observe those other time periods that didn't quite meet those thresholds, and we can do that again in a in a real time capacity with this adaptive signal technology that was installed earlier last month.

So happy to answer any questions you may have on that.

So what is there when it's not 345 to 545?

So those left turns will receive a flashing yellow arrow only.

Only sir.

And then during that time you have the green and everybody else has to stop.

Is that correct?

It will run concurrent with the Dunes West left turn green phase.

So both of those opposing left turns will have and that's a left coming out of Rivertown?

Correct.

Got it.

Okay.

Um is there anything?

Um I'm trying to remember the last time I saw one of those happen.

Um in other words, what what is there that lets the residents know that now they've got that uh yellow, and then at some point of the time it's green, and you know I'm scared of those things, right?

Because you get used to going thinking there's no opposing traffic, and you go, Oh my gosh, you know, did I have the green or the yellow?

But that's just me.

Yeah, so we'll work with senior citizen driver now, and I know how we can do it.

I understand.

Yes, sir.

So we work with the communication department to to target the the neighborhood specifically as well as the shopping center and business owners.

Uh and and we can do that this afternoon as well.

Um I'd be remiss to say uh not to think our partners with Charleston County.

They they did um foot the bill for the purchase and installation of that adaptive signal technology, um, which will allow us to be much more nimble uh uh as traffic volumes change.

Yes.

As part of the communication, there is a couple groups as that y'all know well in that area.

Smart growth is one of them.

David knows others, uh David Spedon, uh that can get that up fairly quickly with uh exchange.

So I would encourage all to use those uh homeowner groups and whatnot to get the word out.

Yes, sir, we can certainly do that.

I suspect as soon as it first happens today, it'll be like wildfire.

We probably won't have to put anything out, but we we will pursue those things, yes, sir.

Yes, that's right.

Uh just wanted to thank you for for working on this um for the past few months, six months maybe.

Um just wanted to hit on that that last bullet point, the uh continued observation.

Um can you describe a little bit about what the plan is moving forward?

Are you um perhaps optimistic that that that um that phasing change will be um maybe available at at different other times of the day?

Yes, sir.

So by continued observation, what I mean is is the bank is not yet open, the daycare is open, so as that bank opens and these traffic patterns sort of normalize, we'll look at those to see what the impact is on these other times of day where we weren't quite meeting those minimum thresholds by DOT.

So this will likely be uh a weekly effort after the bank opens to to look at the a typical day of travel um and and make any necessary adjustments.

And were we um close to it being warranted during other day parts?

Or are we pretty far?

The the PM peak was the only time frame that was that was close uh or met uh all other times at this point were were quite far off from meeting those minimum thresholds.

And uh further observations leading up to and through these efforts that you mentioned, Mr.

Brownstein.

We did look uh at the cues that develop, not just traffic volumes and almost every single or really every single time outside of the period mentioned here, those left turn queues clear every cycle.

Um so there is no one that has been essentially didn't make it through and was skipped.

So it is operating well outside of this period here, and this is again with the shopping center there, the daycare release school traffic is the highest volume uh for those left turns.

And are you all turning on the the green um turn signal tonight?

It should be on today, yes, sir.

All right.

Excellent.

Well, thank you.

Um somebody remind me is is that front portion of um Rivertown is that under a plan development agreement?

Um nothing, you know, I don't nothing came to us about that bank going in there.

We didn't have to vote on anything that they they just had had it by right.

It was a it was a PD and it was zoned um I don't know the exact zoning, but it was a commercial zoning.

Right.

It'd been previous.

Um more more intense uh uses that looked at at a gas station, Chip fillet looked at it.

Um the the uh daycare is not quite uh well I don't really know.

I I can just observe it.

I live there, I come out every morning.

They're not quite up to speed yet to your point, so that's why we're gonna continue to observe the next period we might see would be the AM peak.

Um but yes, sir.

That's but the Chase Bank is will come online.

I don't expect you'll see a lot um of additional traffic from the bank.

From the bank.

Just one of those memories.

Um I don't know who was at the ribbon cutting for the daycare.

If y'all remember it was the hottest day of the summer, the balloons, they had a balloon arch.

The heat was melting the balloons and they were popping during the ribbon cutting.

I've never had that happen before.

Uh so I I can still smell the heat coming off of that that brand new black top.

And that was something.

Thank y'all for that on Rivertown.

That is that is wonderful.

So let's move on to number five, which uh the same area of town, highway 41 corridor improvement project.

Um we wanted the county to come give us an update.

And um, I thank Mr.

Spadden for his remarks.

Um wanna make clear to everybody those alternatives.

That is the county.

That is a county uh project, and uh we did not come up with that alternative.

Um they have done that.

We asked them to be here today, and I I as I understand it, nobody from the county could could be here today.

I believe they wanted to have some of their upper echelon man project managers come, they were not able to.

Okay.

Well, we'll we can try again.

Did they the report that they said is that something that you would share, or is it something for um they did send a uh report I saw um on just updates on 41?

Or is that yes, sir.

I that that can be shared with the public.

I mean, I just sent it to you because I got it that day, and uh, we can certainly post that information.

I I think it'd be good just to know where there's the what they're thinking.

You're looking at me.

Me.

Um so what do we have from the county today that we can talk about?

It's just their status update, which I sent.

Okay.

That's um they're moving forward with the project.

Um they've indicated so in the in the update.

They have a time schedule there.

So this would be the the plan that's been previously presented to move forward uh to final permit.

So the the road to compromise is is their preferred alternative.

It's what they sent for state and federal permitting.

And is there anything in their report of where that permitting process stands?

They expect a permit in the spring, early spring of next year.

Early spring.

Yes, sir.

And then from the time they get the permits to the time they might start construction is how long they they got a bid, right?

They've got to do all of that.

They're saying um award a project for construction in May of 2026.

So that's pretty quickly there.

That means they're they have all their procurement stuff lined up, they're simply waiting for that uh approval of the permit.

All right.

So at what point would they be coming to the town uh for local consent?

Because I I you know I've been dealing with local consent since I was on the transportation committee as a council member, and Ms.

Chapman, maybe you can explain it to me.

Um my understanding is when they do one like this, they would then have to come to us and ask for local consent.

That it is it they do not have it until the town votes and gives it to them.

Was the last impression I got from talking to Mr.

Pacquarini, who I don't see in the room.

James, I don't know if I'm putting you on the spot.

But in other words, until they ask for and receive it, they don't have it.

That's right.

That's true.

Okay.

But there I believe their position is uh, and I'm not gonna speak for the county and the staff's not here, but their position is they don't feel that that's absolutely necessary in this for this project.

For what reason?

I don't know.

Okay.

I I'm not a part of those discussions.

That's one we would like to ask them why they would feel that's not important.

And I was sort of confused on the process because years ago we took off or or voted just sort of preemptively on alternatives 7B.

Did I have the numbers right?

There were 13 or 14, y'all remember, because it it you it turned Bessemer into an expressway into Park West.

And and we voted, I believe it was unanimous that that was not one that we wanted on their list of alternatives before they had chosen even the preferred alternative.

Is my memory right?

You remember all that?

Yes, sir.

So I was sort of thinking that you know the town would be in a position to to vote yay or nay preemptively, but that's not necessarily the way it works.

I don't know if there's a question in there.

Um, I I guess what what everybody is wondering is is there a date at which the county will send us a letter and say we have we have gotten our permits on the road to compromise and the town of Mount Pleasant, this council is asking is being asked to vote that we have your local consent.

I I think we can just reach out and ask.

Yeah, I was gonna say I I'm not prepared to answer that.

I can certainly say that's something our committee wants to know.

Okay.

Got it.

Thank you.

So um Mr.

Lafontaine or whoever's back there, we have a um we we have a good sort of digital um information that Mr.

Speedman um gave to me, and I asked just to be loaded because I'll show you something that I find very interesting in this, and I I cannot compete with him in his level of understanding of all these kind of highway things.

Um I'm not necessarily turning the the presentation over to Mr.

And understand we can do that if we want, but I may ask him uh a particular the one that shows the traffic counts on what the traffic counts would be.

Um who's got the Mr.

Bedden, if you will just get us to that one real quick.

Because this this is of concern to everybody.

And please just give your name again.

Sure, David Spedden, 3429.

Would you show us that map with the trap or or the list the breakdown of the traffic counts?

Here's the South Carolina DOT permanent traffic sensors.

So doing some research, I went back and looked at those and broke down parts of 41, parts of Park West Boulevard and Dunes West Boulevard to completely understand the traffic impact of what the road compromise would be.

And I can go back and show you those individual slides of each section if you wish.

That would be good.

Because what struck me when I met with you was the increase in traffic will be greater on Park West Boulevard than it is on actually on Highway 41.

Correct.

And this is all county data for 2024.

Okay.

I don't know if there's more recent info, but I would suspect the volume numbers would just be higher.

Okay.

So right now from Highway 17 to Joe Rouse Boulevard on Highway 41, the average is 24,800 vehicles.

When you hit Joe Rouse Boulevard, the bypass is already there, which takes off about 7500 cars per day.

Because you see the traffic drops from Joe Rass Boulevard to Wando River Bridge down to 17,300.

So these were averaged from those sensors we showed previously.

So next, what happens um with highway 41?

So current state, 17,300 vehicles a day.

Uh the county had said before that the road needed to be expanded or traffic diverted to handle that.

Um county has chosen a more costly diversion plan uh for the expansion of 41.

So they're gonna plan to move 5,709 more vehicles per day off at Joe Rouse Boulevard or some other exit into the Park West Circle.

And if that traffic is bypassed, like they're saying, they're gonna travel to Dunes West Boulevard.

So future state on Highway 41 in front of the Phillips community would drop to 11,591 vehicles per day.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, can you go back for a second?

Yep.

So they're saying that by creating a duplicative road that essentially mirrors the bypass that's already there, that that's going to take an additional 5700 vehicles off who are not currently diverting onto the existing roadway, Joe Rouse and Bessemer.

Right.

The words that I find in documents and county council members have said before is that there will be diverting about 30% of the volume off of 41.

I guess I just don't understand who those cars are that are not currently diverting.

Like I I can't picture a Dunes West resident coming off of 17 and weaving their way through Park West versus just continuing straight on Highway 41, no matter what road you build there.

It just does not make any sense to you.

Yeah, actually, you probably get a fair amount of people that take Joe Rouse because if their residents are along Dunes West where the fire station is, that's much shorter.

Yeah, yeah, that would make sense.

But those are people that are likely already using the bypass that exists through Park West today.

Correct.

Unless you do something where you're forcing lanes and signage and some other treatment to move physically move people to go through that path.

I don't see how you're gonna get another 30% off of Highway 41.

I mean, I think you could literally plug it into Google maps or whatever you're using, and it would likely take you down 41 to Dunes West Boulevard.

Right.

Depending on where in the neighborhood you are.

Uh and if you're looking for the fastest path, 41 is 45 miles an hour, whereas the residential roads are at 35.

So you're gonna have that safety hazard of you get used to driving on a highway and you go into a residential load and look down and go, oh yeah, I gotta slow down.

That's gonna be an issue.

So let me show you the impacts of the park West Boulevard.

So from Bessemer Circle, heading towards Dunes West Boulevard.

Right now it's 13,900 vehicles per day, and that includes the 30% that's being routed off 41 today via Joe Routes.

So now we're gonna see 5,700 more vehicles per day.

Roughly that one third the county wants to move off.

And the future state of Park West Boulevard, which is a two-lane road, just like 41, is gonna have 19,609 average daily vehicles per day, which is more that's on 41 today.

And the county has not offered any type of mitigation to say that road needs to be widened, or why this makes sense from the fact that they standpoint, it really makes you scratch your head as to the logic that got us there.

And just for information's sake, is all of Park West Boulevard a town of Mount Pleasant Road?

Yes, sir.

Every every bit of Dunes West.

Okay.

Right.

Okay.

Okay.

So the impacts the Dunes West Boulevard.

So some of the traffic that makes it the Dunes West Boulevard does go off into those residential communities.

Right now they've got 9,500 um vehicles average per day.

Adding that 5,79 more, which is the bypass the county is looking for, will inflate their traffic to a future state of 15,209, which is just shy of what the traffic volume is in front of the Phillips community today.

So it's a longer path, it's a slower path.

The congestion that's going to create is going to impact noise quality, air quality, and just think right at the heart of this is fire station number five in Dunes West.

Okay.

Now when you lay it all out, those two numbers in red should really be a major alarm for everybody.

So the future state of Highway 41 would be 11,591 vehicles a day.

Park West would be 19,609 with no wide roading or improvements.

And then Dunes West Boulevard would balloon to 15,209.

Again, with no widening or improvements.

And those two roads, Park West and Dunes West Boulevard, are designed as residential roads.

They don't have the shoulders.

They don't have the same space that you do off a highway.