Good evening.

I would like to call the planning and zoning commission meeting for August 20th, 2025 to order.

All right.

Thank you.

Let's get started.

Secretary Wright, please conduct roll call.

Abu Baker.

Bonzel.

Here.

Custom.

Here.

Namas here.

McDaniel?

Here.

President.

Robbins?

Here.

Right.

Madam Chair, we have a form.

Thank you.

The first order of business tonight is the public forum.

During the public forum, members of the public have the opportunity to address the planning and zoning commission on issues which are not part of tonight's agenda.

Please keep your comments limited to three minutes.

Also, for the sake of all of those in attendance, please refrain from clapping or shouting out in response to comments made by any speaker.

Secretary Wright, do we have anyone signed up under public form?

No one's on them.

Great.

Thank you.

Our next order of business and public hearings.

For each hearing, we will begin with the staff presentation or introduction, followed by the petitioner's presentation.

We will then take public testimony to ensure that we have an opportunity to hear from each person wishing to speak.

Please keep your comments specific to the request under consideration and try to avoid repetitive comments.

Also, for the sake of all of those in attendance, please refrain from clapping or shouting out in response to comments made by any speaker.

Following all public testimony, the petitioner will provide closing remarks just prior to the closure of the public hearing.

No further public testimony will be taken after the petitioners begins closing their closing remarks or during the planning and zoning commission's deliberation.

I will now swear in any member of the public wishing to speak.

Those who wish to provide testimony, please stand up.

Please raise your right hand and respond.

I do.

I swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

Thank you.

The first case on tonight's agenda is development zero zero five seven-2025 1960 Lucent Lane CARES Critical Data Centers.

This the petitioner has submitted a request that this case be continued to the September 3rd, 2025 PCC public hearing.

Staff supports the request continuance.

Accordingly, I would like to open the public hearing and concur with the petitioner's request to consider or to continue this item to September 3rd, 2025's meeting.

Staff and the petitioner's presentations as well as public comment will be taken on the September 3rd meeting.

So moved.

Can I have a second?

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Great.

Motion carries.

The next case on tonight's agenda is development zero zero six eight-2025 Dutch Brothers.

Anna Franco from staff will present the case.

Good evening.

And thank you, Chair and Commission.

Anna Franco with the city's planning services team.

The petitioner for DEV-006H 2025 requests approval of a major change to the Market Meadows PUD, deviations to eliminate the requested by the required bypass lane, and reduce the required parking spaces in the PUD and a preliminary slash final plat of subdivision to construct a Dutch Bros drive-through coffee shop in the Market Meadows shopping center.

The subject property consists of approximately 1.3 acres and is located just north of the neighbor boulevard entrance to the Market Meadows shopping center.

The property is zoned B2 PUD and is currently improved with a U.S.

bank and a triangular-shaped parking area north of the bank where the Dutch Rose is proposed.

The Dutch Bros Coffee Shop is a permitted use in the B-2 zone and in the Market Meadows PUD and will have a small footprint of approximately 1,100 square feet with minimal parking requirements, which allows it to be accommodated on the small subdivided lot.

The building will be comprised of brick veneer and blue Nichiha and complies with the citywide building design guidelines.

Dutch Brothers will offer a drive-through and walk-up services with patio for customers, but will not offer any dine-in options inside the building.

The existing north-south drive aisle between Joule and the subject property will provide vehicular access to the Dutch Borough's drive-thru lanes and parking spaces.

As part of this request, the petitioner seeks approval of a major change to the Market Meadows PUD, which consists of six lots and includes a variety of land uses, including but not limited to restaurants, self-storage, grocery, and other retail uses.

The proposed changes to the approved PUD plan related to the Dutch Bros proposal, along with the requested parking deviation, trigger the need for a major change to the Market Meadows PUD per section 6-4-6 colon one.

Staff believes the proposed Dutch Brothers coffee shop will generally complement the existing mix of uses within the PUD if off-site stacking can be sufficiently operated.

The petitioner also seeks approval of a parking deviation to reduce the minimum number of parking spaces required in the PUD.

Dutch Bros is meeting the on-site parking requirement with the provision of six on-site parking spaces.

However, as Dutch Bros replaces an existing parking area within the PUD, the redevelopment results in a net loss of approximately 39 parking spaces from the overall PUD.

Per municipal code section 6-9-3, 4 and 6, the PUD is required to have 1,100 parking spaces based on the current tenant mix and the addition of Dutch Bros.

A deviation to reduce the required parking to 926 spaces was approved in 2021 in association with the self-storage development.

The Dutch Bros redevelopment further reduces the required number of parking spaces within the PUD below the minimum parking spaces previously approved to 887 parking spaces.

Based on the current and projected parking demand outlined in the parking study, staff believes the provision of 887 parking spaces is sufficient to meet the demand of the Market Meadows shopping center and supports the requested deviation, subject to the condition outlined in the staff report.

The petitioner also seeks approval of a deviation to eliminate the required bypass lane for the proposed drive-thru coffee shop.

Dutch Bros site plan includes dual drive lane, dual drive-through lanes that taper down to a single lane before the pickup window.

However, the escape lane does not span the entire length of the drive-thru and therefore does not meet the requirement of a bypass lane per section 6-9-6 colon 2.2 of the municipal code.

Strict enforcement of the code requirements would result in the need for a parallel pavement section to be added adjacent to the drive dual drive-through lane system.

Staff finds the proposed site layout and drive-through design to be sufficient and is supportive of the requested deviation, given the size limitations of the subject property, the dual drive-through lane design, and the number of on-site stacking spaces provided.

The petitioner's response to standards for amending a PUD and granting a PUD deviation can be found in the attachments.

Upon review, staff agrees with the petitioner's findings and recommends their adoption by the Planning and Zoning Commission.

I would also like to add that this will be one of the first Dutch Bros.

Demand is expected to be high in the first months after opening.

At staff's request, the petitioner has submitted a traffic management plan for the Dutch Bros.

Grand Opening outlining strategies for managing traffic in the event stacking cannot be incombinated entirely on-site on the specific Dutch Brothers property, meaning on-site.

Strategies include a proposed route for off-site queuing, staff locations to manage ordering and stacking, and directional signage.

Dutch Bros anticipates that the demand will stabilize over time and that these offsite traffic measures will not be regularly needed.

While Dutch Bros has provided a detailed traffic management plan, staff recommends that the planning and zoning commission recommend the conditions of approval as outlined in the staff report to ensure optimal manage of management of the site.

Please note that this condition language is not finalized and is subject to change prior to incorporation in a future ordinance.

Overall, staff supports the requested entitlements subject to the reference conditions.

And tonight we ask that you conduct the public hearing and we are available for questions.

Thank you.

Will the petitioner please approach the podium?

Good evening.

Good evening.

I'd like to thank staff, Anna, Dominic, and uh Allison have been really extraordinary to work with.

We've taken this plan from inception, probably had four meetings that were very beneficial to the process and getting things nailed down.

As you know, uh the drive-thru coffee thing is a sensitive issue here, and uh, we're sensitive to that.

Uh our operator, Dutch Brothers is a corporately owned store, and they have a fully dedicated team for these grand openings, and they're gonna staff this thing well, and we've got an excellent traffic management plan that can accommodate up to 2500 linear feet of stacking on market meadows property.

We're currently proposing 500 at the request of staff, but should there uh be a need for more, we have the ability to accommodate more.

We have the support of our tenants, uh Jewel Osco and US Bank, the ones who are uh probably the most impacted.

So we have their approval and support for this project.

Um we also have uh a demonstrated track record of making a real positive impact on our development.

We've been the owners uh since 2021.

We acquired it, it was uh 60 percent occupied at the time of acquisition.

It's now over uh 98 percent, I believe.

We have one vacancy, and that has led to a parking demand less than 600.

So the parking deviation request is still has a significant buffer of available parking spots, and we have no further plans to develop further.

So, with that, I'll take your questions.

Can I get your name first, please?

Oh, I'm sorry, Ryan Fitzgerald, Shorewood Development Group.

Thank you.

All right, I would like to hear from any of the members of the public uh present tonight who wishes to speak on this case.

If you're is there anyone signed up, Secretary Wright?

Uh Mr.

Fitzgerald, there's a Mr.

Rove and Matt J.

Is he are they part of your team?

Yes, they are.

Okay, did you guys want to speak?

You signed up.

You don't have to, we just okay.

All right.

Um, well then I will open it up to any members of the public that would like to speak tonight.

Is there anyone?

All right.

Do any of the commissioners have comments on this case?

All right, Commissioner.

Um, I would like to know what is the reason for eliminating the bypass lane.

The bypass lane was eliminated because of the staffing and operational plan of Dutch Pros.

It's it's a partial bypass lane.

So at the time they will be fulfilling orders in the line.

Uh it they'll be taking orders in the line, they'll allow cars to go through.

If there aren't people managing the traffic uh outside of the building, it will only be a single line.

Yeah, that's um the dedicated not having a dedicated bypass lane is always uh concerning.

We all are coffee lovers and uh it's a great project.

We Napleville uh it's always gonna contribute economically uh to the supporting local businesses and the Napolewill's economy.

But having not dedicated bypass lane will definitely give an operational challenge in managing the traffic.

Um especially uh in terms of safety, and uh that's always concerns me.

We all we had a project earlier in the past, and that was also very concerning to me.

And um, so yeah, so just wanted that's one of the biggest concerns with this variance.

I mean, otherwise the project looks very good, and I'm sure it's going to be a super success if it's coming, but uh the safety is should be the number one priority for me.

Okay.

Share your concern, thank you.

But thank you.

Yeah, I have a question.

Um the city, you said you're they're losing 39 spaces, but in the petition, it says it's they're going from 1,100 spaces down to 887.

So which I thought the 887 came in 2021.

So in 2021, they went down to 926 spaces.

Um the reduction 39 spaces represents the difference between the the 926 spaces and the 886 spaces that are now being proposed.

Okay.

I see that.

All right.

Do you have no the parking ratio?

Just I mean, the code is probably four to one, five to one.

I have the parking ratio, yes, for the entire PUD.

Um, I just need a moment to look that up.

Okay.

Thank you.

A lot of it hinges on how you count this self-storage.

There are roughly 145,000 square feet of retail on that site.

So just using the math in my head, I think we're, you know, about five and a half per thousand.

Thank you.

That's that's the number I'm looking for.

Commissioner Nanis.

Thanks.

Um, so I did read through HR Green's parking analysis, and the spots aren't really a concern, especially with the business model you're looking at.

We won't be attracting probably more spots needed, right?

It's more so the looking at that traffic management plan where I think you move it the cars from that the two drive-through lanes that go to the one down, I think a lane of the parking, right?

Um for the grand opening.

So first question is has that been um shown to your tenants that that is the plan is to move that into I guess the parking spaces that you would assume are for the JUL right there.

It has been shown uh to our major tenant that will be impacted, which is big blue.

The big blue operator is supportive of it, they think it'll be complimentary, and it's been shown to JUL they are comfortable with it.

Uh staff asked us to copy them on an email informing them they are supportive of it, and it's also been shown to U.S.

bank and they have no qualms about it.

And we have signed agreements that allow as such.

JUL is very uh accustomed to Dutch Bros.

They're looking at doing this at another uh, you know, at multiple locations.

It's very symbiotic.

So it's it's a very complimentary relationship and something they're comfortable with.

JUL has complete and utter site control over that shopping center, as you can imagine.

And if it were detrimental or they had any issue whatsoever, we wouldn't be allowed to do it.

Okay.

And past those first couple months that we would assume would have the largest number of customers at a single time.

Are we all have you looked at I guess historically the traffic patterns?

Because I because where I saw that that drive-thru goes through, it's it's the I'm gonna call it the main drag there, right?

So my worry is the cars start to turn into there and park along the drag, and now you've kind of created a backup um trying to get people from one end of the shopping center to the other.

Um has that been looked at, or is that is there a long-term plan to avoid having people stop on the main again, main drag of of the shopping center?

Well, to be clear, the 500 feet of stacking is within a parking aisle.

It won't be within the main throat of it.

It should also be noted, and I failed to mention that Dutch Bros uses for off-site traffic uh controllers, they use off-duty police officers, and they plan to keep that thorough way that would go uh and directionally challenged west of US bank.

That area would also remain open.

So they will keep that area open.

They'll put a traffic uh controller at the exit from the stacking and to the entrance of the on-site stacking for Dutch Bros.

The other thing to really keep in mind is they're not just coming to Naperville for one store and waiting.

They are coming into, they'll have eight stores open in the third quarter of 2026, and by the end of the year, they will have 35 stores open in the Chicago region.

So it's gonna drastically mitigate the length of time this issue will happen and also the magnitude of the issue.

Okay, thank you.

Did that answer your question?

Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Wright.

Thank you, madam chair.

Um, Mr.

Fazero, you wouldn't happen to have a uh a copy of the traffic management plan, would you that we could put on the screen?

I'm sorry, I don't have that handy.

Okay, and I can I can do it.

You you have one.

Oh, that'd be great.

I'm just gonna pull it from the um the council.

Great, thank you so much.

Agenda website, of course.

I do have a couple of questions about that.

Uh while she's pulling that up, um, I thought I heard you say in one of my questions were that you have a um a formal agreement with both Jewel and US bank.

Yes.

Okay.

Has that been provided to the city?

Uh the agreement with US bank or with uh JUL was provided.

The agreement with US bank has been signed as of today, and I have not provided that to the city staff, but I can subsequent to this meeting.

Okay.

Um and while she's pulling that up, um you know, one of one of the questions that I had, and we'll look at it here on the traffic management plan.

Um a concern that I had was it seemed that you've indicated this one's good that that slide's perfect.

Um it seems here that you've indicated that that traffic coming down neighbor boulevard, let's say southbound on neighbor boulevard, uh, will turn right into the property.

Um there's no mention of any traffic on market avenue, which could come from either direction.

And so my concern is is that if you have stacking that comes around uh on that main uh part of the road into market metals that you show going into the into the the queuing area, if you have traffic and you will have traffic coming up market from both directions coming across JUL.

How how are you gonna manage that dual traffic getting into the queuing lane?

Well, that'll be the job of the traffic controller.

There'll be a person there, a labeled TC one.

This will be an off-duty police officer, someone uh entrusted to manage events for cities, counties, festivals that that will be there.

It won't be a 15-year-old employee with his first job, so he will be there directing traffic.

There will be a signage plan.

We have uh I think a very cooperative relationship with the city.

We will work with them on a signage plan to accommodate that, but we will direct them along the front of Joule uh to that TC one standpoint shown on the staffing plan.

Okay.

And then I noticed that in the traffic plan, it really indicated that this traffic management staffing would be there for the grand opening.

What what happens beyond the grand opening if traffic continues?

So exactly.

So uh glad you asked, thank you.

Um Kyle Dallas from Dutch Pros has been on a number of calls.

This is specifically his point.

And they have a site in California where they've had uh stacking, they've actually rented a parking lot off site, and they use people they use radios with police officers to transport the car or to direct the cars from one location to the other, so it doesn't interrupt the operation, and that's been going on for 14 months.

They're willing to do whatever it takes because these are their customers, this is their shopping center.

Uh, but I I think the opening uh I think the we don't see this kind of demand at Starbucks, and it will across the street.

They don't have an escape route, they don't have this stacking plan, they don't even have two lanes, they don't have the outside people.

I don't think this demand is going to be forever.

I think the aggression with which they're opening stores is going to be a much bigger mitigant to this than anything.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

I um you know, we unfortunately have learned a lesson very recently in another coffee location that we felt would be the same way, and it's still creating uh traffic problems.

So I'm just concerned that if we don't have a long-term plan beyond grand opening, that um we could wind up in the same situation that we're now.

Granted, this is an internal lot, it has some better controls that will won't allow people to stack up on major roadways, which I I feel comfortable about, but I you know I do have concern about safety within the Jewel parking lot.

You know, you have elderly people uh coming out of Jewel, and if people are, you know, it seems to me, and again, I've not been to Dutch Brothers, it seems like a great brand, but it seems to me that it caters to younger, uh a younger demographic, and you have you know, unfortunately, uh children that are gonna be speeding through the Jewel parking lot and coming from a direction that you don't really indicate on this on this traffic management plan.

So as long as they're cognizant of that, and um you guys are able to manage that beyond just the grand opening because again, I hope you're successful.

I hope this lasts forever.

Um, but there really needs to be some kind of contingency to make sure that the public is safe, especially uh the customers coming in and out of out of Joule.

So that would be my my only ask.

Um I would like to say a few comments to kind of build on your point and give you some added comfort.

Number one, this has a walk-up window, and this is a new store.

Uh Dutch Brothers has an online has an app that sits on your phone.

New stores right now across their brand are averaging 32% orders via the app.

That is a huge mitigant to traffic and stacking and speed of ordering.

Their average order time is significantly less because of that.

Uh, so that will mitigate that.

So I think the last distinction I would like to make is this is a corporate-owned store.

This isn't a franchisee.

I spent, I hate to admit it, I spent three hours outside of the referenced uh location on Iroquois, and I watched is these young kids during summer are taking breaks, eating the place is filthy, it's not well run.

There's no adult in charge.

And I would watch as things would stack and unstack, and I watched the whole thing for three hours.

I sent uh Dominic a wonderful email about it.

And that you know, I timed how long it would take the cycle times.

The cycle times were taking six minutes there.

That's part of the problem.

The Dutch Brothers cycle time is around two minutes.

So that four minute cycle time per order is a significant difference in a lot of the issues we're talking about.

So I I think there are a lot of mitigating factors here, and I'm not trying to minimize the situation there.

I understand your job is to protect the public safety.

And I I've got kids, I've got family, I I get it, and uh I don't want to see them hurt, but uh I I do think there are a lot of mitigating factors on this site with this operator.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing that.

And then really my last question is more for staff.

Um, you know, I I love what you put in here as far as conditions.

My only question there is how how do we enforce this?

What happens if Dutch Brothers has this traffic, doesn't supply the police officers, doesn't have the traffic management plan in place that we that they promised us.

What what how do we enforce that?

Yes, of course.

Thank you for that.

That's a great question.

Um so the traffic management plan will be an exhibit for the um the ordinance approving if we do decide if the city does it decide to approve this case, it will be an exhibit.

So they will need to comply with what they've shown in that, just like they would with you know site plan documents, for instance.

Um but the the conditions are also intended to kind of be a backfall for you know, if there are significant chronic issues related to the offsite stacking for Dutch brothers.

So we do have conditions saying what needs to be in the the traffic management plan, how much off-site stacking there needs to be, that there needs to be an agreement in place um with the adjacent tenants such property owners, um and um that off-site stacking may not impact other businesses, and then also um that if complaints are submitted affecting certain items, um, like blocking the US bank, backing up onto the market meetings main entrance, or backing up onto Naper Boulevard, that the city can take certain measures to work with the petitioner to adequate adequately address um and those issues.

Um and right now we are currently working with the petitioner on that specific language.

Um but yes, that's why those conditions are in place.

So when if they don't comply with one of those conditions of approval, then city does have some basis to to act on that.

Okay, thank you.

Of course.

To build on her point, we also have agreements with our tenants that we have to provide access to the common areas, that they have to have access to the parking, that they have to have access to the thoroughways, that it has to be maintained and operational, otherwise they withhold rent.

So we as a landowner are have a bigger hammer chasing us uh from the tenants as well.

Thank you, Mr.

Fitzgerald.

I um again, I you know I take you for your word.

Um I you know, I obviously you you guys have done this across the country.

I will say that um I I did notice online that there's multiple locations that have had issues with traffic.

Um, one particular in Phoenix that had to be shut down because the traffic was an issue.

Um I think there was one in California as well.

So um, you know, I just want you to be prepared that if this thing is as popular as it probably will be, that we we hope that you will be a man of your word and make sure that these these traffic enforcement measures are are in place.

I will be on site personally.

All right, I'll be giving my coffee from you.

Thank you.

Please do.

Thank you.

Um Mr.

Viseryl, thank you very much.

Uh I I think every one of us is always excited when a new business comes to town, especially something uh as unique as as Dutch Brothers.

Um it's already been referenced a few times about a similar type of uh operation that's uh uh been you know was opened and has been operating for a little while now.

Um a whole bunch of us have lived in town long enough to know that that intersection, that street, 75th and Naper Hobson, uh between seven in the morning to nine, and then or actually six to maybe eight thirty-nine, and then again at night uh is incredibly incredibly busy.

Um as Commissioner Wright had mentioned we hope we know uh uh upon approval approval this is gonna be incredibly successful, but again, I think you might underestimate how many cars and how much traffic this really could potentially generate.

Um, especially right there.

Um I get one of the one of the only questions I have is that one order pickup line window.

Um why just one?

Can you have a second?

Is there a way that you can expedite delivery of those drinks instead of just having two lanes funnel down to one?

They they have one window that's physically on the building, but they have people running beverages to both lanes um uh yeah, yeah.

Uh but but they I guess it does funnel down to one.

They have would have a hard time uh getting out, I guess, right?

Is there a buy is there?

So there's a partial bypass on the site.

It's hard to see on this.

Uh I'll see if I can get you a more zoomed in version.

Okay, thank you.

It comes down to the cycle times, right?

Theoretically, from two minutes is when you start to do your order, you're served, and then they release a car every 45 seconds, so they're not theoretically releasing two cars at the same exact time all the time.

So it's one car, one car, one car, one car, they're kind of staggered.

So every 45 seconds.

You um referenced uh uh the point that um after uh maybe 30 days or so after your you know initial opening, uh congestion tends to die down.

Um we haven't seen that in the other project, which is a great proper to have for you.

Uh but again, something that we're very concerned about.

Um I g a question I have for staff.

Uh it was mentioned in the case you have about 2500 linear feet of stacking on site.

Is that I hear correct?

That includes if we go back to the traffic management plan.

Uh so that calculation includes these two green right here, these are about 500 each, and then there's 1500 going all the way out to neighbor.

So that's what gets you 2500.

Um city staff, uh I guess a question for for you guys.

Um has there been an analysis done uh of the stacking that's occurred at the alternative restaurant town, beverage restaurant town.

Um yes, there has been an analysis of stacking done for seven brew um in the city.

Um that I don't have on hand um, but it did study traffic during peak periods.

Okay.

Um I guess it's you know, we couldn't make an assumption based on what we think it could be, but what we hear online and from our friends is is that it's long.

Um so anyways, uh I I echo everyone's concern.

I I really do think I I am confident that this project will be approved.

Um I hear it's an incredibly well-known uh uh brand in California.

Um but I'll be honest, I I I am gonna vote no because I want to make sure that we get this right, not because I don't want it, because I want to make sure that council recognizes that this is you know something that we really need to work hard on to get it right, and we put a lot more time and effort and energy into it.

So that's where I'm at.

Thank you.

Any other commissioners?

I'll say one thing.

Yes, Commissioner McCall.

My only concern is um because my kid actually attends the big blue, and I would have used always use that bypass lane because of the people coming out of Joule.

So that way I can avoid them, but now um I think you're gonna close off that portion, correct?

No, we wouldn't close that off at all.

Jewel would throw a fit.

No, by the by the um US bank that that the bypass we were you gonna have the two lanes go into one.

Oh so if I'm leaving big blue, I'm gonna go around to avoid the dual the dual people coming out of the store.

Yes.

Yeah, this one here is.

Yeah, I would come down.

Yeah, yeah, right in front of the case.

Yeah, see, I will go straight down, they then go out through um the uh market city place, the markets market street to avoid the customers coming out of Jewel.

But now that based on this plan here, that's gonna be shut off, correct?

No, there won't be any rogue closure.

It will just be managed by the traffic controllers, and the only part that will be managed is the stacking area.

Okay.

And if there is an issue, they'll obviously address it.

Okay, so what just just make it to make sure I understand clearly.

So when I come in there, let's say it's instead of making that left to McDonald's, I'll make that right-hand turn to go into your facility, right?

Yes.

So that'll still be open.

Cars can still go through that way.

Correct.

Okay.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood.

Thank you.

Oh, you're welcome.

I appreciate you asking a question.

Commissioner.

Um I would like to make a motion to adopt it.

We're not there yet.

No do it.

Okay.

We haven't closed it out.

That's okay.

Does anyone else have any other Commissioner McDaniel?

One more scenario based question real quick if you don't mind.

Uh let's say that someone's coming in off of uh neighbor uh into market meadows and they they are not there to to visit Dutch Brothers and they want to go to Jewel.

Um but they yeah it is would it be easy for them to not go around the whole stacking wait in line just to kind of cut through?

Do you have a mechanism set in place where they can say, hey, I'm not here to go there, I want to go this way.

Can I cut the line?

That would be the job of the off-duty police officer to do that, but it should be important that the yellow shown on this map is not the stacking, that's just showing the projected path of a Dutch brothers customer.

If if it got really aggressive, there are other ways to expand it.

The really important thing is the responsiveness of Dutch Brothers.

We had a meeting earlier this week with the planning staff, and they responded both of them from corporate, they're on Zooms all day busy.

They were immediately on that call.

This is a really important, and if you need them at the city council meeting, they'll be here.

Like they this is important to them to get this right.

When they go into a new market, they go this is gonna be a proxy for how they have to manage these 35 other markets and maybe other stores in your community, and they want access to your customers, they want access to your community because you are a great community, because you do run things the way you do.

They are going to do it the right way because they have to roll out 35 stores in Chicagoland, and if they get the press that this other company is getting, they're dead.

Like their business is done in this market, and they can't afford to lose this.

Any other commissioners?

You know, I think it's been everyone is reflected all the way I feel.

But the one thing that you keep saying is you're taking ownership.

You are the landowner, um, you're taking responsibility, and the one thing that I like hearing is that you're going to take ownership, not just Dutch Brothers.

Yeah.

And so that tonight for me is very important.

And at the end of the day, I do believe this is going to be wildly successful.

This is the new buzz.

This is Dairy Queen of 1985.

It is.

I've got a high schooler, she'll be in line, and they don't care if it's two hours long.

All of us trying to get from point A to point B are gonna lose our minds.

So I appreciate your commitment.

On top of it, I did want to find out uh, do you do you know what their promotional offerings are and how often they will be?

Because that has been a really big issue with the seven brew when the promotional offerings happen.

I don't, but I can get that answer for you.

I think that's important for when that goes to city council.

I also think that if Dutch Brothers could stand up with you at City Council, that would go a long way.

Um the other thing I wanted to clarify is on the PCC case, it is listed as you are the petitioner, and so if things start to go awry when you Dutch Brothers is wildly successful, who is directly responsible?

Is it Dutch Brothers?

Is it the landowner?

Is it both?

How does that work?

Because I do see the landowner listed as the petitioner.

So how it would work is my cell phone numbers on the bottom of every email.

I take calls all hours, morning, noon, and night.

I am an owner of this shopping center.

But in our lease, we have an agreement with Dutch Brothers that if there's an issue that arises from this city, they have to cooperate.

If they don't cooperate, there's a problem between us and Dutch Brothers.

So we have a mechanism to get their attention.

But we as a development company, Shorewood Development Group, we have a responsibility to this community because we do a lot of development in Chicago land, and we want to keep our reputation right.

So if the three partners have to do traffic control, we'll be there.

Great.

Have you had any feedback from any of the other tenants outside of the two that have supported it?

We have no negative feedback.

Most everybody is really really supportive of it.

That's good to hear.

Yeah.

Um, I hope that that continues because the last thing I want to do is compromise their business.

Yeah.

As well.

Yeah.

So if there's no other questions, I will ask if you have any closing remarks.

No, I just want to appreciate you know, thankful to Anna and the staff for all their cooperation.

Thank you to you and your uh commission for your thoughtful consideration, and we look forward to bringing this uh to fruition in partnership with you guys.

And uh hopefully we can make a successful project like we've done already at the shopping center.

I appreciate your support.

You may regret providing your cell phone number because we all might be calling it.

Please do.

Um, at this time I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for development zero zero six eight two zero two five.

So move.

Second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All right.

Motion carries.

Commissioner, can you read the motion, please?

Um this time I will get it right.

I would like to make a motion to adopt uh the findings of fact as presented by the petitioner and recommend approval of devil six eight two zero two five, a major change to the market's PUD, a deviation to section six-nine-six column 2.2 of the neighborhood municipal code to eliminate the required bypass lane.

Deviation to section 669-3, column four and six of the Napleville municipal code to reduce the required parking spaces in the PUD from 1100 spaces to 887 spaces and approval of a preliminary final plot of subdivision subject to the recommended conditions of approval for a Dutch Brothers uh coffee shop located at 1230 South Napolebully Ward.

Can I have a second?

Second.

All right, Secretary Wright, please conduct roll call.

Casting all I'm gonna vote no on this.

I do not agree.

Abu Becker, no.

I approve.

McDaniel, no.

Ruchelia, I agree with the motion.

Robins?

I agree with the motion.

And right, I agree with the motion.

All right.

Thank you.

What did you say?

44.

All right.

All right, thank you.

What was the final tally?

Uh it was 4 4.

44.

Well, how does that does that proceed to the council at that point or is there a tie break?

If it is a tie vote, it is uh no recommendation is given by the PCC.

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Have a good evening.

Night's agenda is uh development zero zero nine zero two zero two five escapology.

There is Igner from is it uh Teresa Igner from staff will present the case.

Sorry.

Thank you, Chair.

Therese Eigner with the city's planning services team.

DEV-0090-2025 is a request submitted by petitioner Samuel Stockton Escapology for approval of a conditional use to allow for an amusement establishment and a parking variance to allow for the reduction of off-street parking requirements.

The subject property is located at 2603 Aurora Avenue, suite 107, east of Route 59.

It is developed within a single story commercial building that is part of the larger West Ridge Court Shopping Center adjacent to Block 59, a mixed-use dining and entertainment destination currently developing in the city.

The property is zoned B2, community shopping center district, which requires a conditional use approval for amusement establishments.

The development petition indicates that the Escapology Escape Room franchise is a quiet, clean, and professionally operated entertainment venue that will enhance the area without disrupting the surrounding properties.

The venue also operates by appointment, which prevents large gatherings and minimizes traffic impacts.

The city's land use master plan identifies the future place type for the subject property as urban center.

Staff finds the proposed use to be compatible with this designation as entertainment uses are identified as a primary use in this place type.

The petitioner is also requesting approval of a parking variance to allow for the reduction of off-street parking requirements.

Amusement establishments require 10 parking spaces per 1,000 square feet per the municipal code, which would require escapeology's 6,284 square foot tenant space to have 63 parking spaces.

28 parking spaces have been reserved for the proposed tenant space in the West Ridge Court shopping center, resulting in a deficit of 35 parking spaces.

To support the requested variants, the petitioner has submitted parking information that provides parking counts from comparable locations during peak times based on the franchise data from other locations and the appointment only model.

Based on the franchise data from other locations and the appointment only model, the provided parking demand information signifies 28 parking spaces is sufficient for the proposed amusement use.

Staff is in agreement with the petitioner's findings and supports the request.

Staff now requests you to conduct the public hearing.

I will be available for questions.

Great.

Thank you.

Will the petitioner please approach the podium?

Good evening.

My name is Sam Stockton.

I'm with Escapeology.

Um pretty much it's been, you know, she laid it all out.

Theresa's amazing.

We we've went back and forth a million times, answered a million questions.

Um as far as the parking variance goes, uh I'm allocated 28 parking spots.

I really only need 17, maybe 18.

And that's because of our metered um occupancy.

Will uh it's all based on reservation and whatnot else.

So my facility will have 12 escape rooms.

We optimally run more like eight, and uh you know it's two and a half cars per group that comes in.

So 1718 parking spots with my employees would be more than sufficient based on the 28.

Um I know I'm being classified as amusement, but I'm more like a tutoring center per se.

I mean, I'm not running a bowling alley or a theater where I got a bunch of people hanging out, you know.

Um, I'm scheduling people to come in, you know, every hour.

You know, I should say the room runs an hour every 15 minutes.

We'll be flipping rooms.

Um so it's a continual rotation, but as people are coming, people are leaving, parking spots stay available.

Um really don't know what else you know you know you you want and you need.

Uh you know, I'll answer whatever.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Uh Secretary Wright, do we have anyone signed up?

Uh Miss Stockton, did you want to speak or that's my wife?

Okay, no, no, no emotional support person.

No, no problem, no one else.

All right.

Are there any other members in the public that would like to speak on the case?

No.

All right.

Commissioners, do you have any comments, questions?

Quick comment.

Yeah.

Just a quick comment.

Um love the business, by the way.

Um, I think Neighborville has always needed more experiences for our children.

And so I'm very excited to see this come in.

So I wish you the best of luck.

Appreciate that.

I would agree.

I have a 20-year-old and he loves these, so I'm excited that you're coming to Naperville.

All right.

I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for development dash 0090-2025.

So moved.

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right.

Motion carries.

Uh Commissioner Ricellia.

I'll like to make a motion to adopt the final fact as presented by the petitioner.

I recommend approval of DV0090-2025, a conditional use for an amusement establishment in B-2 Zone and District Pursuant to Section 6-7B-3 and a parking variable from section 6-9-3.7 to reduce required on-site parking from 63 spaces to 28 spaces for the subject property located at 2603 Aurora Avenue Suite 107.

Great.

Can I have a second second?

Second.

All right.

Secretary Wright, please conduct roll call.

Right.

I agree with the motion.

Rochelia.

I agree with the motion.

McDaniel.

I agree.

I agree.

Castignoli.

I agree.

Bonzel.

I agree.

Abu Baker.

I agree.

And Robins.

I agree.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

All right.

The next case on tonight's agenda is development-0096-2025 of St.

Peter and Paul Fence.

From staff will present the case.

Thank you, Chair.

Therese Egner with the city's planning services team.

DEV-0096-2025 is a request submitted by the petitioner Brad Drendle for approval of a variance to allow for a six-foot fence in height to be located along the subject property's east property line.

The subject property, 115 East Fenton, is generally located on the west side of Ellsworth Street, north of Benton Avenue, and is zoned R2 single family and low density multiple family residence district.

The property is approximately 0.5 acres and is currently improved with a surface parking lot that is owned and used by Saint Saints Peter and Paul Church and School.

The property is improved with an existing six-foot fence with six foot four-inch masonry columns along the south property line and a 12-foot chain link fence along the west property line.

The petitioner is requesting to build a six-foot fence with six foot four inch masonry columns to continue the existing six-foot fence along the east property line located in the front yard.

Open fences not exceeding four feet in height may be constructed and maintained at the front or corner side yard lot lines.

As the proposed six-foot tall open fence exceeds the four foot maximum height allowance in the front yard, a variance is required.

The petitioner is seeking the increased fence height in order to provide a safety barrier for the elementary school children and to continue the existing fence for aesthetic purposes.

The proposed fencing will not impact the parking lots, existing vehicle access points, or interrupt pedestrian crosswalks.

Staff is in agreement with the petitioner's findings and supports the request.

Staff now request you conduct the public hearing.

I will be available for questions.

Thank you.

Will the petitioner please approach the podium?

Good evening.

I'm Brad Drendle.

I'm the petitioner.

I'm a school parent, and I'm also a parisher of Saints Peter Paul.

Um so Teresa did an amazing job explaining that.

Um I'm just here to answer any questions.

Great.

Are there uh Secretary Wright?

Is there anyone signed up?

No one's on them.

All right.

Uh any members of the public that would like to speak.

All right, how about the commissioners?

Just a quick comment.

Um, I just wanted to comment that looking at the plan, I think it is the right move to have a six-foot fence, especially going past it.

Most days you can see all the kids playing out there.

It for safety purposes, it makes a lot of sense.

I'll be voting yes on this.

Thank you.

Yeah, just a quick thing.

Um, I've been to that area several times.

I know disbands will certainly increase some privacy and security.

Uh, was there any uh aesthetic concerns from the neighborhood?

Um we had one concern about more traffic, I think.

With one one neighborhood sent in.

I think it might have been distributed in the packet, I'm not sure.

Um we received one public comment um regarding potential traffic concerns and access concerns.

Um, none pertaining to aesthetic purposes.

Um, but we staff just want to know there are no changes, proposed changes to access or um parking on this site.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner.

No, okay.

All right.

Anyone else?

Thank you.

Okay.

Um right.

The only thing I would say is I walk by it daily.

I think the proposed changes with the fence look phenomenal, so I will be in support.

Uh, would you like to make any closing comments?

Thank you for your time, Teresa.

Great job.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for development zero zero nine six-2025.

So moved.

Second.

All right.

All in favor?

Aye.

All right.

Motion carries.

Commissioner Namas, will you read the motion?

I would like to make a motion to adopt the findings of fact as presented by the petitioner and recommend approval of DEV-0096-2025, a variance to section 6-2-12, colon 1.2 of the municipal code to allow a fence to measure six feet in height along the subject prop property's east property line.

Can I have a second?

Second.

All right, Secretary Wright, please conduct roll call.

All right.

Bonzel.

I agree.

Castingoli.

I agree.

Namas.

I approve.

McDaniel, I agree.

Rochelio.

I agree with the motion.

Right.

I agree with the motion and Robins.

I agree with the motion.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much.

All right.

The next case on tonight's agenda is development-0099-2025.

Barber House, Sarah Kapinski from staff will present the case.

Thank you and good evening.

Sarah Kapinski with the city's planning services team.

Subject property for the case before you is located at 232 South Washington Street and includes suites six and seven.

The property is zoned B4 downtown core and is improved with a multi-tenant commercial building with some tenant spaces fronting Washington and others accessed from a courtyard courtyard off the Washington Street alley.

Suites six and seven are ground floor tenant spaces that lack any visibility from Washington and are only visible from the rear of the property.

The petitioner currently operates a barber shop known as Barber House in suite seven of the building.

At this time, they wish to expand their services to include a health spa known as Health House in the adjacent suite six.

To do so, the petitioner requests approval of a variance to allow a health spa to locate on the first floor of a building in the city's B4 zoning district.

An objective of the B4 district is to provide space for retail restaurants and commercial services on the street level to create an active pedestrian realm and destination in a concentrated area.

The B4 district permits general services, including health spas, but restricts their location to the second floor and above, as these uses are not found to generate as much pedestrian activity or rely on passers-by for customers.

Suite six and seven on the subject property do not have any frontage from Washington Street and therefore have limited ability to attract walk-in customers.

As a result, staff finds both suite six and seven to have low retail viability.

Staff agrees with the petitioner that establishing a health spot in suite six will complement the adjacent uses and support surrounding businesses by attracting additional traffic to the area.

It is also important to note that the petitioner's proposal received unanimous support by the downtown Neighborville Alliance Board or DNA.

DNA noted that limited visibility makes this location challenging for traditional retail, and that expanding a well-established local business is a smart way to show support for the business community.

Staff is supportive of the variants requested.

Tonight we request you conduct the public hearing, and I'll remain available for any questions.

Thank you.

Well, the petitioner please approach the podium.

Hi, how are you doing?

I'm Eric Sulla.

Thanks, Sarah.

Um, I don't really want to like have pretty much my speech right there.

Um but uh I've been in uh I've been in the beauty industry for about 15 or over 15 years, and I have gladly to say that all 15 years have been downtown Neighborville.

Seven of those have been um as an entrepreneur and small business owner.

Um so I could say that my foundation of my career has been here, but also it's my professional home.

Uh like she said, um, does this projection work by any chance?

It does.

Cool.

I'm old school.

I don't know if that'll help.

But um, but I wanted to say uh so my location is uh my business is tucked away from the main strip.

It's uh even being there for three years, new clients are still having a struggle finding me.

So um as a result, as many of those businesses back there need to be operate as a destination location.

Um people don't stumble stumble across us, they have to seek us out.

Um the majority of my business is service-based.

I do um operate with 20 to 30 percent of daily activity is retail, um, which all subject to sales tax.

The compared to the current business in that space, which generates minimal minimal taxable revenue.

Um, I'm projected to expand my retail up to 50 to 80, 80,000.

Um but beyond numbers, uh, like what Sarah said, uh she said that was a courtyard.

We're kind of known as the back alley right there, and I've been trying to clean that up uh for three years now, and I would love to be able to have that as a destination courtyard and maybe even a wellness court uh right across from me is a yoga air yoga, which is service-based, and I know it will complement them really well, and just want just trying to clean it up a little as much as I can, you know.

So I'm I'm really hoping to make that a nice destination courtyard.

Um but also uh the visual right here.

I I don't know if you guys are familiar with that location, but it's just tucked away from the Washington, even with a sign out there saying we're back here, they still go into like the Washington retail being like, where are they?

And they're like over there.

So uh so it's uh it's a it's an issue, but at the same time I'm a destination, so I'm willing to fight that and keep on going.

But I think uh this could be something really good for my current business, expanded services, and uh yeah, if you have any other questions, I would love to ask, and thank you for your guys' time.

And Sarah, thank you for helping me throughout there.

I don't have any secretaries, it's just me.

So they've been helping me big time, so yeah.

Appreciate it, thank you.

Secretary Wright, do we have anyone signed up to speak?

No one's on.

All right, anyone in the public that would like to speak tonight?

All right, I will open it up to the commissioners.

Any comments, questions?

Yes.

Hi.

Yeah, I've seen that area.

It's pretty hidden.

How do you?

I mean, I was just wondering, I was walking that area, and I was like, how do you market?

And how can people see that you are located here?

It's such a narrow street on the Washington next to that strong.

So my biggest is SEO, Google, um, and also social media.

Okay.

So we're always getting phone calls being like, hey, where are you located?

So we always have to kind of direct them.

So when I first opened, we had a lot of phone calls trying to figure out where we were because not too many people know about that little that little backspace.

So little by little, we're getting it known, and hopefully we could make it a neighbor.

I was like even planning, like hopefully maybe a neighborville archway or something eventually, you know.

But yeah, mostly all social media and Google.

Yeah, it's it's a good thing to have a spa uh certainly that provides uh wellness service to these.

We have a stressful jobs these days, and the first floor that does help in managing the food traffic in that area.

But my question is to the staff.

Is this the first ever spa on the fourth floor in the Napleville?

No.

Actually, uh we have I can answer we have the now spa and we have some nail salons.

I don't know if that's there have been a handful that have been approved throughout the downtown.

Um oftentimes supported due to either lower pedestrian activity, um hidden spaces, things of that sort.

I don't have a listing handy, but um like Commissioner Robins noted, uh, the now might be one of the most recent ones.

Yes.

Um we have received some proposals that are in heavily trafficked areas that have not received support by staff or council.

Okay, all right, thank you.

Commissioner McKenzie.

Um, first of all, you have a very nice beard.

Um getting fired in the uh very excited that you're you're you're you're opening up there.

Uh I know it's a hidden location.

We wish you a lot of success, and we're excited to have you.

So you'll have my support.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for that.

Any of the other commissioners?

All right.

Do you have any closing remarks?

Uh no, no, thank you for your time.

All right.

I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for development dash 0099-2025.

So move.

Second.

All right, all in favor.

Aye.

Motion carries.

All right, Commissioner McDaniel.

Uh I'd like to make a motion to adopt the findings of fact presented by the petitioner and recommend approval of DEV 00992025.

The variance to section 6-7 D-4 before required conditions.

The code to allow a general service youth health spa to locate on the first floor of building in the city's before zoning district.

Barbara Hoff.

Next question.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, wait, I mean, second.

Yep, second.

Just give us one second.

All right, can I have a second?

Second.

All right.

Secretary Wright, please conduct real quick.

Not miss.

I agree.

McDaniel.

I agree.

Rich Elio.

I agree with the motion.

Right.

I agree with the motion.

Cast Ignoli.

I agree with the motion.

Bonzo.

I agree.

Abu Becker.

I agree.

And Robins.

Congratulations.

I agree.

Thank you.

Again.

All right.

Next is the approval of the minutes of August 6, 2025 planning and zoning commission meeting.

Do we have any corrections to the minutes?

No.

I would like to entertain a motion to approve the minutes of August 6, 2025 planning and zoning meeting.

So moved.

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All right.

Motion carries.

No old, no new adjournment.

I would like to entertain a motion to adjourn the meeting.

So move.

Second.

Aye.

All opposed.

Okay, meeting adjourned.

Good one.