Good evening, everybody.

Well, let's take a couple of minutes for everybody to get settled, and then we'll uh we'll jump into the presentation tonight.

I just want to be respectful of people's time.

So what do you what do we say we get started in about two minutes?

So find a seat and say hi to your friends and neighbors, and we'll be right back with you.

Thank you, everybody for um for being a part of this event tonight.

Um my name is John Talty.

I was the fortunate uh chairperson for this ULI study uh for your community.

Um the people at this dais are normally on the other side of this table, so if we have a you know, if we get real comfortable up here, it's just the fact that you know we're kind of relishing this chair versus the chair that's often on the other side.

Um so uh again, we thank you very, very much for letting us be a part of this conversation.

Um an architect.

My day job is that of being an architect in the city of Chicago.

I'm chairman of a company called OKW Architects.

Um we like everyone else at this in this panel uh are very comfortable with the tasks at hand that were part and parcel with this uh with this effort uh with this investigation and the subsequent report.

So these are things that are very um uh that come very naturally to us.

Uh I'm very confident in who we are and and the kind of the findings that we came up with.

Uh, but but in order to kick all this off, I'd like for you to meet the people, all of which are far smarter than I, who are uh on the dais with us tonight.

So starting on my left, um, I'd like to ask everyone to just say hello and and introduce themselves.

Thanks, John.

Hi, I'm Alan Barker.

I am also an architect.

I'm a principal at Lamar Johnson Collaborative in the City of Chicago.

And my name's Bill Loftus.

I'm a civil engineer.

Uh, participate with a civil engineering and surveying firm out of Rosemont uh Spaceco, Inc.

Good evening.

My name is Hal Frank.

I'm an attorney with the law firm of Meltzer, Brutil, and STELL.

We have offices downtown and also in Schaumburg.

I've uh spent the bulk of my career doing entitlement work and uh zoning work for both uh for-profit and not for profit entities across the Chicago metropolitan area.

Good evening.

My name is Jody Mariano.

I am a landscape architect uh and vice president of design at Tesca Associates.

We're based in Evanston.

Uh I lead the design studio and primarily work on public place projects.

I'm the Vice President of Development at Focus.

Uh developer and general contractor in Chicago.

Good evening.

I'm Matt Nicks.

I'm a principal with Riva Development Partners.

We are a developer.

We really focus on suburban, residential, and mixed use development, and it's real really been a pleasure to have the opportunity to work on this project.

Not with us tonight is Javier Milan.

Javier is a traffic consultant, a traffic engineer with KLOA.

And he sends his regards.

He's at a public hearing tonight, which seems to be the bulk of his life along with those he works with.

So thank you all.

Yes, thank you.

Been reminded to advance the slides so we can match the names with the faces.

So what's ULI?

ULI ULI Chicago is a district council of about 1,500 professionals that are engaged in all facets of the real estate industry.

And we are part of a global network of real estate professionals with almost 40,000 people worldwide.

And what do we do?

We we kind of shape the landscape.

We are stewards of the built environment.

ULI is a is a collection of really, really smart people who do not have a do not have an agenda necessarily.

This is not our agenda, this is your agenda.

And so what we do is we get together with residents and civic leaders and business leaders, and we kind of get ourselves wrapped around the idea of what this what could be, what is possible.

And in the case of this opportunity in Naperville, we had the we spent two days here.

We toured the property extensively.

We interviewed many, many people within the community.

We listened and then we gathered all that information and synthesized, synthesized it in such a way that we can present it to you tonight in a in a forum that gives you a little bit of insight as to how we think and where we think opportunities lie for this community.

We all know the property that we've been investigating in all of this.

And what could it be?

Right now it's home to about 16, 1700 parking spots.

We know that in a post-COVID world, those the you know parking at the train station isn't what it used to be.

Um and there's opportunity there.

The city controls this this land and is is curious as to how best it can evolve over time.

This is not a there's no silver bullet associated with this process.

Uh there's no single solution.

Um it's really a kit of parts, and every parcel that we studied as part of this study area really had its own pluses and minuses and lens and lended themselves to different kinds of development over time.

Um so we know that there's a there is opportunity for housing in this community uh of all different types.

Uh there's housing gaps, uh there's attainable or affordable housing needs, there's senior housing needs, perhaps, uh, there's market rate housing needs for sure.

Um aside from that, what else could go here?

Uh, what are the opportunities related to retail or entertainment?

Most importantly, how do we take a property like this and connect it and have it be part of a great city fabric?

Um Naperville is like no other place I can think of uh in our in our you know Midwest area.

Um people aspire to be like Naperville.

We recognize the excellence, the bar that's been set here for decades and decades in terms of housing, education, infrastructure.

Um you you are uh you're a model for cities all over the country, all over the world for that matter.

So, how do we take an opportunity like this with uh you know quite a bit of land available to us, and how do we create something here that can be part of the future of the city, um be great be a great neighbor to those who are proximate to it, uh, be a great um uh component to an already very vital downtown without detracting from the existing downtown, and how do we connect all these dots so that uh it becomes a natural it be it becomes a natural extension of who the city is.

Uh so we we talked about you know what should it be, but before we really got into it, we recognized that we had to do our homework as to how it was considered and what was done in the past.

We know that in 2018 the Ryan companies came to Naperville with high hopes and presented to the city in Naperville uh an extensive development opportunity that consisted of housing and office and limited retail.

Part of our job was to find out why that didn't work.

Um, why was Ryan very, very successful, a very smart uh developer builder, why why did they why did that that process fail.

Um so as part of that, we learned that there was there was kind of a lack of transparency in that process.

Um there was there was a feeling that perhaps it was too Ryan centric versus Naperville centric, that they were the drivers of the agenda rather than the city being a partner in that process.

Um the city goals and the parameters of what was presented was really not that well defined.

They they kind of took the lead and and and with all great respect and and presented something that at the end of the day the city found not to be uh in its best interest.

There was a density issue, there was a height issue.

Um there was a programming component because part of what Ryan was presenting uh had an extensive office development uh in a post-COVID world suburban office.

Um it's not a it's it's it's a tough, it's a tough sell in today's market.

That's not to say it can't exist, but at the scale of which they were presenting, it was really going to be a non starter.

And then ultimately, I think the city uh leadership and the community at large felt like maybe this shouldn't all go to one person.

Maybe this should go to multiple people and have this develop, have this property develop more organically over time.

Hence the series of parcels that were uh that are being considered as part of this process.

So Ryan did a they did a good job.

It was just not the right place or the right time or the right solution.

From a stakeholder standpoint and the resident standpoint, through interviews that we had, there was a fear the density and height was out of context with the surrounding area.

This is a this is a drum that's beaten pretty regularly in the world of mixed use suburban, especially in fill kinds of development.

Too big and too tall.

Okay.

So it's it's a hard thing to wrap your arms around, but we recognize that as being a real issue.

There was also a concern that the proposal really didn't lend itself to much open space and kind of community gathering.

Part of what this should be is a you know, kind of a self-sustaining environment where we not only have you know great architecture, good homes for people to live in, places for people to go, but air in which to breathe within the context of that development and the open space that could come along with that, which strengthens all facets of the development.

Um traffic is an issue.

The train station's not going away.

Where it's it's kind of it's it's uh easy to get to, easy to exit from, um, and so now we gotta we've got to integrate serving the needs of the commuters with the potential development that surrounds it.

Um there was fear perhaps that this could be a second downtown, given it's given its density and its its approach that it was gonna detract from the area in which we are seated right now.

Um we don't want that to happen.

We want it to be complementary, we want we don't want it to be, we we don't want it to take away from what what's already been done.

There was there was concerns about the capacity of the schools, and depending upon how many people became a part of this new community, this new development.

Uh, were we gonna stress the schools in such a way that it was gonna cause a whole other series of issues that we really hadn't counted on and that we're not prepared to solve.

Um, and then there are those who just simply didn't believe in the concept of transit-oriented development, um, and that uh you know that the the idea that someone is gonna live proximate to a train station, walk to the train, go downtown to work, return home, and and live in a very different way.

We've kind of all grown accustomed to our automobiles.

And so the you know, the stakeholders, some of the stakeholders we talked to uh raised concerns about would this really act and function the way it was intended to.

So that was that was some of what we heard.

From the city of Naperville's perspective, and from the leadership, creating a place from a space was the thing that really rung true to all of us.

We heard that quote from the mayor uh at the very beginning of the process.

We have a space out there, that space serves as home to a lot of parked cars, but how does that how do we turn that into a place?

Something that we can all take pride in and that's consistent with kind of the bar uh that's been set by the city of Naperville.

We also want the train station to be a gateway.

Um personal commentary would be that train station is not befitting of the city of Naperville, the way it sits today.

It deserves you deserve better.

And I think the building and its surrounding areas could be improved so that when someone gets off that train and they arrive here, they know that they've there's a gravitas to it, that they know that they've come to a place that's not like every other place along the Burlington line, that it's different.

And I think the development of this properties, these properties around this train station will help to make that become more of a reality.

Um so improving the commuter and pedestrian experience, uh, part and parcel to all this was critical.

Um, and then creating a destination that's again not part of the downtown, but connected to the downtown.

Um with the development of these almost 15 acres, there's great opportunity for infrastructure improvements.

Infrastructure being controlling traffic, uh controlling stormwater management, um, and can uh and we're gonna get into this a little bit later on in the presentation, but it's an opportunity uh that presents itself for us.

Whatever we do and however we do it, and what whatever we speak of, we kind of approach it with the notion of fiscal being fiscally responsible.

Um all the work that our collective practices do, um, there has to be a business component to all this that makes sense.

We can't get out.

We've all we've all been witness to those who kind of get overextended and who find themselves in very difficult position in short order.

Whatever we do, whatever we present to you and the city, um, needs to come from the perspective of fiscal responsibility and a long-term view.

This is not a again, this is not some stopgap thing.

This is part of the next 500 years of the city.

And finally, is there an opportunity?

The city posed the question is there an opportunity for revenue for uh revenue generation for the city.

You guys own it.

So can we, is this an opportunity for us to you know, in a smart and responsible way, uh generate revenue for the city?

That's what we heard.

So now we go to the goals and visions of this process.

Um and the goals, you know, we've we've touched on all these things, um, but the goals really are the foundational aspects of this lie in the notion of access and connectivity to the city, having it be a natural uh and appropriate uh part of an ever growing uh downtown.

We wanna create open space that's meaningful, that's additive and not subtractive, that allows people to gather as a community and build upon that notion of community in a uh in the correct way.

We wanna find the right the right collection of uses for the site.

We don't um we we wanna make sure that this property in the future is home to uh you know to the right kinds of things that will be successful for a long period of time.

Everybody wants certain things in their communities, but that doesn't mean that it's necessary that this is necessarily home to some of those things, and part of what we investigated through this process was um the children's museum and it's and its um kind of connection to uh you know this property and what's its future.

Uh we heard we heard that it's not meeting the needs of the institution currently.

Um so is there a way for this uh Fifth Avenue station property to allow that children's museum to be a more successful amenity to the city?

Um could it be relocated?

Uh could it be a catalyst for development?

All of these things were kind of taken into consideration uh as we broach the subject of this uh of this technical assistance panel.

So with that, I'm gonna stop talking and I'm gonna allow you the opportunity to listen to some other people talk about other aspects of our role and our responsibility in all of this, and I'm gonna turn the uh the microphone over to uh my friend Bill Loftus.

Thanks, John.

Um well done.

Great background.

I mean, there's so many faces in the audience tonight, probably many of whom um participated in this panel before.

I was just talking to how um my counterpart here before the meeting started, and uh I think we talked to about 200 people over the two days, not including the staff uh and leaders of the of the city.

Um and so we tried to do, and John had did a beautiful job articulating all those uh concerns, the stakeholders, and then the vision.

Is that loud enough?

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Um so John did a beautiful job of articulating uh the stakeholders' concerns and then the visions.

But this slide talks about how does it get paid for.

Um, and it's funny because as the engineer on the panel, I'm usually spending the money, not finding ways to raise the money.

Um, but these things do cost money, and so that connectivity and access to connectivity that uh John pointed out in the last slide, those north-south connections, uh, we thought the TIFF was an idea here for Naperville to explore.

I know it's not been something that they've had in their toolbox uh historically speaking, but the creation of that public-private partnership, uh, some of the developers on the panel really suggesting the opportunity to phase the development of manner to generate that TIFF increment um by doing some of those housing projects early to um, and I'm not gonna get into an explanation of TIP.

I assume most of uh the audience has heard this before, but it's basically the generation of the increment of tax generated from the property as it stands today, which is very low, versus the potential developed opportunity, which would raise that um uh real estate tax.

So then you have TIFF eligible projects, which are listed here, many of those.

Um, how the leaders of Neighborville decide to draw that TIFF boundary, it can incorporate some other things that we heard that might be on the periphery of the um study parcels.

For instance, the stormwater management, we had identified Kendall Park in talking to some local residents and um staff that there was some localized flooding in that area.

Now we're not suggesting that anyone takes away the park, we're suggesting that potentially an underground chamber um in that park could help mitigate some of that localized flooding.

We looked at these opportunities for that north-south connection.

We heard that from the neighborhood north to the study area, and then from the study area south uh to the downtown.

Where were those opportunities for that connectivity?

Either pedestrian, bike um, or vehicular.

Allen's were Ellsworth was a street that we had identified.

We also identified the underpass, the cow tunnel as a potential um connection that could be enhanced or improved to um improve that that pedestrian north-south connection.

That was a reoccurring theme on many of these potential projects we identified uh as TIFF eligible funding.

We also heard um concerns about speed of travel.

So when you talk about connectivity, you talk about vehicular and pedestrian conflicts.

We looked at that Fifth Avenue as um a road that could potentially benefit from some traffic calming, shorten shortening those pedestrian crossings, slowing that traffic down, um, and also using technology to help position the commuters um say a parking structure that would reduce the um potential um vehicular and pedestrian conflicts as well, bringing them in to the site at the right right location.

And then, of course, there's site remediation um that could be would be TIFF eligible as a possibility as well.

Uh we also covered sort of the methodology.

Uh John went into sort of the and I and it, and I think it was important that we emphasize the word perceived uh lack of transparency and um in those early slides with the first Ryan development.

And and I think that was a reoccurring theme.

And matter of fact, when we were sitting, some some people were very passionate about in talking to us early on, and when we said we were volunteers, we'll hear this.

Um, we want to hear this messaging clearly.

Uh we we thought that up establishing a process through the city made a great deal of sense.

And that process we outlined here as a third-party consultant hired to develop a master plan.

With that master plan would come the um development guidelines, design standards that would prove to be the framework for that development.

That would allow the flexibility and market conditions can change over time, the flexibility of bringing various developers, it would keep the consistency that I think the community is looking for as far as um as if a single developer did it, but offer the opportunity to many different developers and potentially projects going on concurrently.

Um then it was very important to establish that that RFP process, that request for proposal process for the development community.

I think the developers love, and Matt Nix can speak to this um at greater length, but they love certainty and those guidelines and that master planning when a community puts that out there is very helpful for them to project uh what their future projects could look like.

So that being said, we'll hand it over to Vic, a developer in his own right who can speak to these different parcels and how we how we looked at them as uh as opportunity for the city.

Absolutely, thank you.

Um yeah, I think what what my role will be here in these next couple of slides is to take what John and Bill built on and all of those ideas and concepts, considerations, and start to understand how we as a group decided they could apply to to the subject area.

So this slide here shows the the properties that that were studied, the study area.

Um in the interest of time, I won't go through in detail, but it's enough to say that in blue is the city-owned property, um, and that yellow-oranges color is currently leased to the city uh from the railroad.

So important context just in terms of how those pieces are developed.

But that's the information there.

John mentioned, you can go to the next slide.

John mentioned the current capacity of the parking areas that are in that surface parking was around 1650.

So that's a number we were working with.

It's an assumption based on a study, but that'll be important as we as we talk about the thoughts we had.

This slide starts to talk about how we looked at this as a matter of density.

I think Bill touched on it and John as well, just in terms of connectivity.

I mean, that you'll see as we talk about specific plan is that kind of flows throughout.

But all of these concepts work together, though all the bits and pieces can sort of operate independently in phases in different different sequences, things like that.

But I think the the biggest concept that I that I'd like to get across is density, um, as it's featured here across those three zones.

Uh if you're looking to remove or relocate, reallocate parking, there's always going to be a need then for some form of structured parking somewhere.

Um, and obviously that comes with density, but also there's there's dollars associated with that.

Um the idea of then needing to build up more density, perhaps with other uses, mixed uses to support that development, there's additional costs, things like that.

It starts to scale up, and that's that's why there is a need, an inherent need for that density, as well as the the opportunity to bring other uses to the site.

But from left to right, you can go back real quick.

No, you're good, you're good.

Um, from left to right, though, is as we looked at it, there is a context to the city of Naperville, and and I think everybody would appreciate that that remains the same.

Uh what we looked at though is down Washington Street, there's a better opportunity perhaps for a higher density.

So that's why we labeled that area as a higher density.

I won't go through all of the notes because things can get explained further along.

Uh, but that area is sort of that focused arrival to Naperville.

Um, I think the as you move further east, both north and south of the station, you can start to scale that density down a little bit, though again, there's still going to be a need if we're gonna need to replace parking and do some things with that.

Um note though, north of the tracks, we thought would be a great opportunity for some sort of community space, a market space, and Jody can go into that a little bit further.

But the idea of bringing that activity to the station, I think we can all see Fifth Avenue Station as an example of some commercial spaces that don't do as well because there isn't this uh the sort of locus, there isn't an area where people are gathering and focused, and we think that's critical for the success of anything that comes of this area.

Um further east, I'll quickly say there's we labeled it lower density, and obviously the the idea is for that to remain as a lower density, more in context with the surroundings, um, but some further opportunities because it is a large parking area for use of that land.

And again, Jody can kind of go into what we thought would make sense over there.

Uh, but that's how we approach it at least in breaking down the zones.

The key considerations, and a lot of this is is really just a recap.

Um, but I think the biggest the biggest considerations in terms of a planning process in terms of develop developing a master plan.

Number one is understanding the actual parking needs.

That's obviously the current capacity, uh, but the current demand and future demand, and that extends also to the Route 59 station, um, as the two could potentially be used in conjunction with one another.

Uh, there's there is a need for a a study of the parking because that sets the baseline for what needs to remain, what can be uh replicated, what needs to move, things like that.

Um we in our study took an assumption of about 80% of the current stalls in place as what would need to exist in this post-COVID world.

Um, again, that could be up for debate, but there needs to be a study on that, just to know that that's how we sort of based our assumptions in the in the following slides.

Um the other key points, of course, it's been said before, but I think it's really important to repeat the the flexibility of any of the the phasing of this.

There's certain parts of the subject area that can be activated today.

Uh there's certain parts that would need things to move in order to come to fruition on on what would happen in those sites.

Uh, but it is all very flexible, and that's definitely a conversation that that needs to happen.

Um the next point we we wanted to include here because there's a lot of discussion about the number of stories and wanting to be sensitive to that.

There is a discussion about whether or not, let's say a four-story limit for development um is achievable with with the economics, but to also say from a design standpoint, are there ways to design something that happens to be taller than four stories, uh, but still works within the context?

But to also say from a design standpoint, are there ways to design something that happens to be taller than four stories but still works within the context because I think that's the root of what everyone is getting at is it needs to fit in.

If it's too tall, it won't fit in.

But rather than sort of focus on the specific number of stories or a specific height, there should be a conversation around design and what that could mean because it's possible that four stories uh could actually be a little bit shorter than what could work.

Um touched on these other two, but again, activating the area, and then the station itself, as John mentioned.

We don't have any design guidance on that specifically, but that is certainly something that is worth uh discussion in the in the process.

I'll pass to Jody with that to talk a little bit more about our thoughts.

Great, thank you.

So I think everyone's probably familiar with this site, but just to orient you, we have the Burlington Northern Railroad road running east-west across the middle of the slide here.

Washington Street is on your left-hand side, the west side running north-south.

And just like Vic mentioned, um, we're looking at the higher density being located in the Washington Street to the west area, and then as you proceed to the east, it gets lower and lower in density.

So I'll kind of talk through all these, but I want to mention first that um just like you heard, we're looking to uh provide a balanced approach to development.

So I'm gonna talk through all types of development, being public and private, uh, mixed-use commercial and retail, parking, community spaces, open spaces, and then anything that you see here labeled in blue represents connections, things that happen in the public right-of-way, things like crossings and pathways and underpass enhancements, uh, similar to what Bill talked about regarding things that could be funded by TIFF.

So, starting down at the section on the west side of Washington Street, excuse me, south of the railroad tracks, this is where the children's museum is.

Uh, this drawing looks at uh a parking structure to support commuter traffic, and could have the children's museum, which is shown here in a dashed line at the bottom.

Children's museum could be enhanced or it could be relocated someplace else and reused for another use from a pedestrian and bike traffic standpoint.

We uh are looking at enhancing and reopening that cow tunnel and connections back to Kendall Park to the north and the neighborhood to the north.

Also looking at potential for a bridged connection, a pedestrian connection from the parking garage over Washington Street to the development to the east side of Washington.

So moving on to the side east side of Washington, this is where the metro station area is, of course, um, just like you heard, could be enhanced further.

Um the area around the station could be enhanced with landscaping and paving and site furnishings to be more plaza-like.

Burlington Square Park could also be enhanced with landscaping and placemaking to make it feel more like a place.

So then when somebody arrives at the station, they feel like they're um they're in a special place at Snapville.

The development to the west side of the Burlington Square Park, just west of Center Street.

We do have some uh structures here that would remain, some existing homes and businesses that you know, of course, would stay.

Uh, but there uh is an opportunity we felt for mixed-use commercial and residential uh to support commuter parking, but also that food and beverage, quick coffee, grab and go, just like John mentioned, um, associated with the station area.

Working my way to the east on Ellsworth Street, this was an opportunity for an improved pedestrian underpass, and what we were looking at as far as a low stress bike route.

People that are uh casual bikers or families or children could benefit from having a route directly to downtown that does not put them on a busy street.

So we saw Ellsworth as being an opportunity for that.

Working on to the north side of the railroad tracks, uh again, just on the east side of Washington here is an opportunity again for our higher density uh structure, could it have a mixed-use um uh retail commercial on the first floor with residential and parking above?

The commercial on the first floor could be food and beverage again to again serve this open space that we're creating to the east side of Center Street.

So east of Center Street, just south of Fifth Avenue.

We heard a lot of comments from the community about having a more permanent market type shelter that could be a three-season open type shelter to support things like farmers markets, events, community gatherings, and we've got some slides that'll showcase a little bit more about what those things could look like.

But that shelter is shown here just south of Fifth Avenue.

And then the parking to the south would be reorganized and landscapes, and then an open space could be created to kind of support those uses.

So the thought is that you know you could use the shelter, you can go use some food and beverage businesses and look commercial space and create that balance of community life that we're looking for.

Anything that has that blue circle in along Fifth Avenue with a number three in it represents improved pedestrian connections.

We heard a lot about uh better crosswalks, better connections, make it feel safer for people to cross and get to and from, and also slow and calm traffic.

And this concept, and as we're moving our way to the east, the Krayler lot and the water tower west lot are intended to stay as is.

The thought is that during all of this development, the parking would be uh something that that the community needs, and so it can continue to use the parking in those areas just east of Loomis on north and south sides of Fifth Avenue, and then as a second phase, uh we would look to if the um market supports it and if parking is is working out uh well enough based on the developments that we just described to the west, then those parcels on the um east side of Loomis could be developed as single family tone single family homes with uh with accessory dwelling units or town homes on the north side of Fifth Avenue, and then on the south side of Fifth Avenue could be uh a structured parking deck if the parking is needed at that time.

So the idea is to really kind of balance out and not just overdevelop everything at once, but you know, kind of do the first phase, see how it's working, and then if there is more of a need for additional parking, um, that could be developed in the future.

Great thanks, thanks, Jody.

Yeah, I mean, this really is a it's a tremendous site, it's a tremendous opportunity for residential, and I think we've talked said many times, it's really about balancing scale, density, height.

Um from our interviews with the neighbors, you know, the two primary concerns really were we're concerned about height and we're concerned about the impact that it's going to have any residential product would have on our schools.

So, as we formulated our recommendations of the types of uh target markets for this residential, we tried to take those uh into consideration.

Um, certainly one of uh one of the uh obvious markets would be focusing on the downsizing uh downsizing empty nesters.

Folks who have raised their families in Naperville in the area, they're living in a single family home that they've really no longer have the need, but there are really very few options for folks that want to stay in the neighborhood in the community.

So we think uh tremendous opportunity to serve the the empty nester.

Um we don't want to forget that this is a transit oriented development, and certainly the post-COVID habits of workers have changed.

Um perhaps folks that once needed to be downtown five days a week, now can be there two or three days a week.

So we looked at it and said the flexibility to be able to walk to a train station, but the opportunity for perhaps someone living in the city to now come out to the suburbs, having that transit, but also perhaps seeking more space, and most likely they own a car and having to place to keep their car.

So we think that's a market that makes a lot of sense.

Just in general, young families or young professionals looking to start forming families, particularly coming from the city.

Uh, the generally the cycle is that they're coming and they're renting first as they start to form a family, as they start to seek to put down roots and aspire to own a home.

Um, so we wanted to keep them in mind, and then any of those product types serving the affordable community, whether it's affordable seniors, whether it's workforce housing, examples were spoken about micro units for young professionals.

So we tried to take that all into the context of the recommendations.

Maybe next slide.

And you know, it's been said before six stories can look very very different depending on the architecture and the context of the you know, the neighborhood.

Our recommendation was really because we heard many times people said it can't be more than four stories, but there's a set there, there's the reality in a densification project that you need to achieve scale.

So our recommendation was really as been described focus height, focus density towards the center of the project, and through creative architecture and varied um product styles, you you basically taper the height as it meets the the surrounding neighborhood.

These happen to be two, sorry, back one.

So the building on the right is an example of a project actually that Vic built in Oak Park.

The one on the left is in Will Met.

Those are five stories over commercial.

The height can vary based on ceiling heights and the retail requirements, but the these are just two of dozens of examples throughout suburban Chicago of these types of projects that have been integrated into uh communities and in the fab fabric of the residential surrounding environment.

The next one.

So then the these are examples of straight of strictly residential buildings.

They're both four story, uh, generally with below grade parking.

Uh, as I talked about that downsizing empty nester, these are very well suited.

They generally are smaller boutique buildings offering larger floor plans.

The one on the right's Ellsworth Station, that's 39 units.

It sits on one acre just south of the train station.

The one on the left is just over an acre.

It's 48 units in a few blocks outside of downtown Glen Ellen, both serving, they're both luxury rental buildings serving empty nesters by and large, and our meeting with uh District 203 uh as well as the Glen Animal project in both cases has been reported virtually no impact on the existing uh school population.

And then finally, you know, as Jody and Vic both talked about the idea of essentially tapering the height and the density as you move eastward.

Uh we identified the the two the two lots east of uh Loomis at fifth as a good opportunity to introduce single family attached product, two and three story.

These are two examples taken right from the neighborhood.

Um but this is very attractive again to the downsizing empty nester.

It's also an entree for young families as they start to form their families, generally pre-school age kids that aspire to move into a single family home.

And those are a nice transition to the adjacent uh single family neighborhoods to the north and to the east.

And then just to touch on what Jody said, in addition to the residential, we think it's critical to really focus on that third space, you know, place for community engagement, a place where people can gather, not just the people, the new residents coming from the development itself, but a place for the neighbors to come uh from the surrounding neighborhoods.

It's not trying to replace downtown Naperville, it's just another place for people to gather.

Uh, those are images of the Wheaton Pavilion where they want they run the French market and have other programming.

We think that would be a tremendous opportunity.

A place we heard time and time again, people in the neighborhood don't want tons of retail, but it'd be nice to be able to walk someplace to get a cup of coffee to um you know engage with with neighbors, and we think that could be ideal.

These are a little more aspirational, uh, better known.

I think we've got Pike's Place and uh a uh gathering place in Eugene, Oregon, and in London.

But again, the idea is really just to create this third space through landscape hardscape and programming that would be an attractive place for folks to gather in the in the community.

I think this concludes our formal presentation.

Um, you know, I personally would say it was really a pleasure to learn more about the neighborhood and the area, and uh and uh but the panels available to answer any questions or elaborate on any of the points we've talked about tonight.

So there's a microphone out there for people to work up the courage and come ask questions if they're if if they would like.

Um as people walk up to the microphone.

I think you know there are a few folks you haven't heard from tonight, but we're gonna ham and egg this as best we can so that we can uh answer the questions you may have.

Um in summary, I think as you can witness that if for this to be successful, um it the the development of this property needs to serve many, many masters, right?

It needs to serve the city of Naperville and the leadership of the city, the business community, the residents that are here today.

Um the you know, the the vehicular we have to have vehicular solutions that are sound.

We have to have pedestrian solutions that are sound.

And ultimately, it has to be a good business decision for the developers who come in and hope to kind of alter the landscape here in this amazing place.

So there's lots of there's lots of involvement, it's very complex, uh, but it can be done.

And everybody here at the at the Dais has been very successful doing things like this for a for a lot of years.

So with that, um I apologize and I'd ask that you please uh introduce yourself and and ask a question.

Okay, so I'll I'll be brave and go first on this.

Um Marilyn Schweitzer, and first of all, thank you very much for doing this.

I'm particularly thrilled to see the concept of doing the traffic study first and the master plan.

Um, one thing I just don't understand from sort of the the plan here.

Where do you envision something like pay thride share, what they used to call KIF and ride, you know, how would that fit into that?

Because I think that was one of the things that was you know, sort of very confusing.

And I know that both COVID that has changed, but just if you could explain the vision for that, and again, thank you very much.

Thank you.

I'm happy to address that.

And I should have mentioned that when I when I presented it, but the area in front of the station area where the label says metro station area has a sort of a yellowish hatch tone on it, and that is intended to be a vehicular use area where cars will still be able to circulate around and be used for things like drop off and pace kiss and ride.

The thought is to treat the pavement with a different kind of color and texture just to kind of help enhance it and make it feel like a special place.

Another brave soul.

Hi, Dan DeSanto, thank you guys for everything you did here.

I think this is a fantastic plan, and the process has gone really well so far.

Um, in terms of the public parking, obviously that that comes with a tremendous expense.

So, is it your vision that uh the city would be putting money up front uh on some of this parking and then seeing the return on that through the TIFF district over time?

Uh, because I I just imagine that the city may have a tough time getting over the hurdle of investing a lot into that parking, but I think it it needs to be done uh to consolidate it into a few lots so that you can develop the rest.

Uh, but they need to know that there's you know money down the line that'll pay it back over the life of the TIFF.

Is that how you're envisioning that working?

I I think uh Mr.

DeSanto, I think that ultimately though that'll be something that the elected officials of the city will have to determine.

We didn't get down into that level of detail.

We did determine, and it was mentioned earlier in the presentation that when you do uh tax increment financing, of course, there are two principal ways it's done that the city may issue a bond or the developer will advance monies and then receive payback as you go, as they say.

Um here there's a balance that's gonna have to take place.

And so we mentioned in our oversight that there should be some kind of encouragement to get the development going, so there is some increase in the base, the tax base to create that increment, because I don't think the city will be able to you know issue a bond if there's not some revenue stream that can be identified.

So I think that's kind of a TBD.

Yeah, I can jump in real quick just to tag onto that.

Um there are as we as we discussed and went through this.

I mean, we we developed, we showed two phases, but there are opportunities, and I think I mentioned it before.

There are certain pieces of this property that wouldn't require structured parking to be built first, per se.

So there's definitely opportunities, mixed use opportunities that could start to come in and help build up that increment um well before structured parking would be needed.

The parking study is part of that conversation, right?

Just to make sure you're not removing parking that is necessary.

But I think it is important to mention that there's a different ways to skin the cat, so to speak.

Hi, thank you all, and excellent presentation.

My name's Trey Phillips, I'm a resident here and also a real estate professional, so long appreciated ULI's contribution to communities and here specifically.

Um really happy to hear about trans-oriented development.

Um, and just want to expand on that uh to include uh equitable transorient development.

And I know ULI members, you all are aware uh the RTA has provide multiple planning grants uh to local municipalities, up to 150,000 for planning.

Uh we've seen that at Fox Lake, Harvard, Joliet, many other municipalities.

Um and they're doing that because they want to increase their their rider share.

So we we all know what's going on.

Additionally, um, when I think about IDA or the housing development authority, uh, their tax exempt bond program, even if you're not providing credits, as long as there's 20% affordability, uh, you can get that uh taxes and bond financing.

I know we touched on TIFF financing as well, and so I just think those are really great opportunities to expand affordable housing for folks at modest income levels, but also workforce housing, and you can spread that out, you know, to where it's perhaps 20% affordable, but then there's other layers built in.

And you can spread that out, you know, to where it's perhaps 20% affordable, but then there's other layers built in.

I know you all have talked about that.

And I just want to find out from the group is that a form of financing uh both from RTA and also the taxes and bond program from Ida that we could capitalize on here, both from a civic but as also a fiduciary responsibility to the town and its residents.

Thank you.

I guess the developer I jump in and say, you know, I would all of the above to the extent it this is a this is a you know hundreds of millions of dollars of development when built out, but it's still a challenging development to get financed, particularly because of the cost of the infrastructure that needs to come before any real development.

So I guess this is this it would be for the the city to really you know explore all any and all options to help you know try to achieve the economic goals.

Yeah, I'd say I mean uh uh many developers, most developers would have the knowledge of some of those um incentives as well.

But it is it's really critical in that process with this third party consultant that we're suggesting that perhaps some of those incentives get laid out and provided as opportunities, and perhaps there's legwork that the city can do ahead of time to really get those set up and established well before a developer comes in.

I think Matt would agree, you know, there's a need of certainty, but also that Tom kills deals and any time a developer wants to come in, if they know there's a lengthy process that they need to then start and get to, your economics are gonna be completely different by the time you finish it.

So I think that's certainly a a challenge, but it's something that can be taken, an initiative that really should be taken well ahead of of that step.

Hi, my name is Bill Simon.

I'm a resident of Naperville.

So I have a couple uh market-related questions.

My big one has to do with the transit-oriented development.

Seems like that's been kind of hot the past five, eight years.

So I'm curious about how that has worked out, where it has been implemented.

I drive by them in a couple places, and I can't really tell um if they're successful and if they're doing what they're supposed to do for the city and the residents.

And I guess my smaller question has to do with coffee.

I'm a coffee lover, and coffee was mentioned, and it seems like the trend now is drive-thru, whether it's a normal Starbucks or even like the seven brew, which I think everybody in the audience knows about seven brew in in Naperville.

I don't go there, but two little questions.

I I can speak to the TOD uh the successes of uh transit oriented development.

Um look at the rail line communities of Chicago, and you can you can spot those who have had a great deal of success with this building typology.

Um Park Ridge, Mount Prospect displains um, you know, the North Line of Highland Park will met.

We saw a slide of uh Winnetka as you head out west.

Uh I think Naperville is is ripe for this.

There is a there's a tremendous uh want to be proximate to these kinds of things, and also create kind of an urbanity that did not exist beforehand, right?

There's a there's something about the scale, the density, uh, and the kind of the lifestyle that's associated with TODs, successful TODs, um, that's attractive to people because it's not um my sister lives in Naperville, she lives in a very quaint quintessential Naperville home uh south of the downtown.

Um, but there are those who want to be a part of this community like her children who want to live in in a more active or more integrated type of housing and community, and and to allows that to happen.

Um, as far as the coffee shops, you know, we're all we're all subject, you know, we're we're all victims of our vehicles, right?

And so whatever is easiest, it's oftentimes the you know the path that we take.

But we really feel as though this could be a very pedestrian-friendly community as part of your overall city.

One more thing to add about TOD.

If if Javier was here, um he would tell you that um that can be quantified, it can be quantified here in Naperville, and we he could talk about the success in terms of numbers in some of these other uh rail uh commuter communities.

Um, and that obviously would be a big part of the third-party master planning effort.

You would you would get to understand um the metrics behind TOD in addition to the qualitative aspects that John was talking about.

I think the thing that you have to remind yourselves of too is that Naperville is home to the two most active train stops in the entire system, with 59 being Route 59 being one and this you know, this location being the second.

So there is a tremendous, you know, there's a there's a market for all this stuff.

And and if we can create a better um, you know, uh a better widget to allow that to exist successfully, uh I'm all in on that.

I think the the other last piece, because you started to touch on it actually just in terms of the drive-through.

Um, and then of course Javier would also probably have something to say regarding traffic, but that was another consideration that um without Javier here, I'm not gonna try to speak to it, but there's a lot of traffic concerns today in in dealing with um getting to and from all of the various lots and how that works.

That's gonna need to be an intensive study, but drive-throughs create more issues and potential concerns.

So perhaps that's that's an avenue that is strictly within any kind of guidelines not allowed.

Something like that.

I think it's something that should be considered.

I think it's a really valid point, frankly.

Uh hi, I'm Jay Mitchell, uh resident of Naperville.

Uh, just a question.

Uh in past years, the city council had passed unanimously a goal of 20% affordable or attainable housing and any new developments to be a consideration.

I was wondering two things.

One, if that uh goal and vision was passed on um in the communications to you, and two, is that something that you you think is attainable and doable as part of a plan, given what a previous speaker, Trey Phillips was talking about with uh possible financing being available.

John So uh first of all, that the 20 the 20% goal of the city was discussed during our discussions when we were out here for those two days.

We're aware of it.

And as the prior uh individual indicated, right now there are some relatively new state incentives relative to advancing that further the cause of affordable housing.

Um, you know, whether those would be in place at the time that new opportunities arose here kind of remains to be seen.

I think there's some sunset limitation on that provision, those provisions that were referred to before.

Um, but that's why we did make uh quite a few references to trying to advance the cause of affordable housing in our vision statement here.

I I think one of the uh the uh the keys here, and and Vic and Matt have touched upon the touched upon this is that um certainty in the parameters is important and third this third party master plan consultant uh working with the city and working with you, the residents, um, if if and when they establish these guidelines um let's say with 20% affordable, um, as long as that's known ahead of time, I think that's the key to successful development and successful um um implementation by developers when they they they just need to know.

They need to know what the rules are so that their proposal can can fit with that.

Um otherwise, if if the rules change um after they're already engaged, then that's how projects slow down or they stop, or they then ask for uh more height or more density.

So certainty is really the key.

And it and if I could take Alan's comment one step further, and John, maybe if you could, or who's ever controlling it, put up like slide 13 where we talked about you uh what Alan just talked about with the master plan um the development strategy.

I think it's slide 13, yeah.

And where the concept was creating a development master plan and bringing in a third-party consultant, and then you'll note we talked about establishing a framework for future development, height density, but taps affordable housing, everything that Alan just talked about, and and he just said creating rules so that the the private sector uh or both profit for profit and not for profit development entities have certainty and rules.

So I would anticipate that the city once it did this, if it does this, that there would then be formal amendments to the municipal code, all of which of course would you know require a public process, public hearing, and all that, but that would be a way to establish that certainty that Alan was talking about.

But that would be a way to establish that certainty that Alan was talking about.

Good evening.

I do appreciate your report and the systematic approach to it.

I'm Dave Weeks, I'm a resident.

And that boy, that's the first time someone said that to me.

Dave Weeks, uh long-term uh Naperville resident and past president of Naperville Elderly Homes.

Couple uh observations.

Uh public spaces.

I would love to see a study on, for instance, Wheaton, what the use of it is after it's been there two years.

Because I gotta say that it's amazing how many times I uh drive by places that are not being used.

Um the picture that you showed of the Wheaton, I think, was a rental uh special gala thing that was a private uh deal.

So I I would simply I'm not against that at all.

It would be very interesting to include it with some of the studies we do.

Um I I don't see why we would put single family homes there.

It seems to me the property is way too valuable to to do that.

You talked about residents that are retired, downsizing.

You turned around and showed townhouses are going up to start at one and a half million dollars with a price tag of about 25,000 real estate taxes.

That's not what's gonna keep seniors here.

Okay.

Uh third.

Um and this is not for you, but I challenge the city to actually define what affordable housing is.

We've talked about it for years and years and years.

There's a difference between affordable housing and low-income housing.

Uh neighborhood homes is in the business of low-income housing.

I'm just saying, until you define that, and that's where the rules uh become so important.

Um, and there are a lot of ways to do that with incentives or density becomes an issue.

Last point I would make is I guess I'm curious why you wouldn't put dense more density along the railroad tracks.

Um, for instance, east of uh the east part, there you've got apartment buildings on the route, you got uh trailer on the west, and you've got uh train tracks there.

It would seem to me that that would be uh an ideal place for a taller, denser um place.

Uh but uh I that so that's what I would suggest by love for us to for once and all define what we mean by affordable housing.

I can speak to the first point about public spaces, because you're absolutely right.

If they're not programmed well, then they will fall vacant and won't get used.

The Wheaton example on a daily basis, the way I understand it is it's um it's parking lot, so it gets used by cars, and then it gets used periodically for events when they happen.

Um the public spaces that we have seen that have been successful are the ones that that have dedicated staff or someone to program it, and the ones that are further successful are the ones when that dedicated person who programs it partners with local organizations to to make sure something happens every day of the week, ideally.

And so if there's you know local library, local yoga exercise studio, and you know, I've seen some places have a get fit Fridays kind of a thing.

But once you start to program them, then the community comes out and says, Oh, hey, it's a place for community members.

Can I do my thing here?

And then you start to kind of build um a sense of place that is always getting used.

But you're absolutely right.

Programmatically, it needs to have attention on it all season long.

And and if I could just respond to your first question, which was a good question, and you answered it yourself, which was a good answer, which is the question about affordable housing.

Uh, it's a fair question because different entities define affordable differently.

Affordable housing under the Illinois Housing Planning and Appeal Act is defined one way, different suburban inclusionary housing ordinances often define affordable a different way.

Some municipalities don't tie their definition to area medium income at all, and they call it attainable housing, and they come up with their own definition.

question which was a good question and you answered it yourself which was a good answer which is the question about affordable housing uh it's a fair question because different entities define affordable differently affordable housing under the Illinois housing planning and appeal act is defined one way different suburban inclusion area housing ordinances often define affordable a different way some municipalities don't tie their definition to area medium income at all and they call it attainable housing and they come up with their own definition so I think it's a fair question but you also answered it yourself correctly which is it's something for the city to decide and I'll address your second point or question I think that was the one about density on the east side um I don't have I think everybody probably has a slightly different opinion about density and that's what's going to be worked through but um the advantage of this proposal one of the advantages of this proposal is that that's phase two that it's phased so if we followed this to some degree higher density to the west and then at that later time we you would have the ability the the city would have the ability to reassess that east side and say hey what really does make sense here financially spatially um public amenity density and uh housing type um on the uh public um spots that you have for C and E do you have any areas for for dogs because currently that C area is just a dog park for the uh apartments that are across the street and I know that because I'm a big walker so and I also have dogs but I don't use that park um another thing is is that uh you know we in the community that do live uh on Ellsworth or north of it um and south of also have a lot of dogs so I think a dog park would benefit the community greatly and also for the uh large housing densities that you plan to put because if not it just becomes you know a problem for the the community I think that's a great idea and I should kind of preface I should have prefaced this concept to say this is really just a very early concept the next phase would require um more detailed study traffic study so we can really understand for instance the pace bus turnaround distance and sizes interest for dog parks other types of functions there would likely want to be public meetings and further engagement to really understand and delve deep into the types of functions and amenities that would happen especially in these public places because we're creating sort of a campus setting here and we want to make sure that it fits with the community so I love the dark dog park idea I think continue to think about it.

And and really interesting uh one of the first things that we recognized when we went to Burlington Square Park is that it was not programmed and it was not being used maybe there was a dog out there but um but as Jody said it's so important to program these spaces the existing spaces and even the and obviously of course the the news the new public spaces that are uh designed and built and um and then this my second comment would be um as a part of this this uh master plan process there can be an ordinance that that talks about um dog dedicated spaces on the property obviously as a part of the public space but even if a if a if a multifamily building has X number of units they need to provide X square feet of of dog walk space on the property just as an example this is this um this master plan is a is a way for uh city of Naperville and you the residents to really define uh the parameters of the plan hi I'm Drew um I live near the site uh I have a family little kids um thanks for doing all this it's it's awesome to see in the time and effort into it um love the walkability the pedestrian spaces things like that that is great um and you were talking a little bit about some of the commercial recommendations so herd coffee shop that sounds fantastic um and we love the farmers market and all of that but what are you thinking about for the other areas what are your recommendations is it you know we um is it something that's just a daytime things that something where it'll be a destination people come to other than commuting maybe quick serve restaurants or full restaurants things like that or how are you thinking about the times and hours and what would work best there I'll take a stab at this Drew I think I think we have to manage our expectations relative to what we call commercial space right and that could be commercial space and to in today's vernacular could include medical office space it could include a it could include a fitness studio it could include a you know Michelin star restaurant um but I what I don't want to do is I want I don't want to go into this with the understanding that there's going to be a tremendous amount of active retail as part of this I think that's a very tough sell in today's marketplace you have great retail in downtown Naperville again it goes back to that balance of what we do here and how it affects how it impacts uh the existing conditions of the city right so do I think there could be those kinds of uh

Um but I what I wouldn't want to do is I want I don't want to go into this with the understanding that there's gonna be a tremendous amount of active retail as part of this.

I think that's a very tough sell in today's marketplace.

You have great retail in downtown Naperville.

Uh again, it goes back to that balance of what we do here and how it affects how it impacts uh the existing conditions of the city, right?

So do I think there could be those kinds of uh you know uh uh facilities uh is part of all this?

Absolutely.

I understand that there's an Indian restaurant, I think, right by the train station.

There were there's some restaurant, you know, that that type of thing, the grab and go kinds of food, all that kind of stuff, as our lives have all changed, and you know, the the pork roast is not in the oven every night.

When I come home from work, I can't speak to you, Drew.

But you know, the the uh the idea of how we live and and how this train station can become a catalyst for opportunity, that's something we have to investigate.

But we have to do it responsibly and not overprom and under deliver.

It happens way too often.

I also I think a lot of that commercial space could could happen organically as well.

You know, we are in you know, in in this scenario, we are um uh providing for you know you well, X number of new residents, and I and I think that the Fifth Avenue station lost, uh the ground floor of that has commercial space.

So in that scenario, I could imagine um organically those spaces could become really whatever the market demands.

Um obviously there's young families, there's there there could potentially be empty nesters, and rather than forcing it into the buildings or forcing too much into the master plan, there are some there are some spaces around here that can instead respond uh to what gets built.

I'm Marcia, I've been in Aprilville for 27 years and live in the little quadrant up there in the upper left.

Um there's been talk from time to time about making things greener, making things maybe that adding parts to buildings that clean the air, like gardens on top of the roofs and things like that, and vertical windmills and that kind of thing.

Is that gonna be part of the planning process at all?

I haven't heard anything about it tonight.

So I just wanted to check and see if that's on anybody's agenda.

That's my fault, Marcia, because you are in one of the groups that uh, and I remember you bringing this comment up before.

Um so that should have probably been bullet pointed in our presentation.

But uh, I can tell you working with many of these people on on this panel um on a daily basis, that sustainable feature is incorporated in nearly all of our developments at this point.

Um I think that's another opportunity.

I know we keep going back to this master plan and development guidelines, but I think um, you know, that can be incentivized in that work product as well for the development team.

Um we'll see what transpires.

But that is something that is um I mean near and dear to my heart.

So uh thank you for bringing that up again.

Good evening, my name's Tom Higgins.

Just a couple of things.

Um just north of the tracks.

Is that surface parking that I'm seeing?

Those two little horizontal lines with some greenery around them.

Yes.

Okay, so that'd be just surface parking.

Correct.

Okay.

And and what this is saying, what which you're your your graph here is saying to me is that you seem to feel that D is more commercially desirable than A.

I would say from this.

That's what I take from it.

Yeah, A is where the children's museum development is today.

And so the intent of this drawing is to uh either keep the children's museum in its existing location, renovate it, and add commuter parking.

It's a really difficult area to get in and out because of Washington Street traffic.

D, however, suggests commercial development facing the neighborhood and also facing the market shelterslash open space.

We're trying to build synergy between commercial spaces and open spaces and pedestrian spaces where they'll kind of bring some vibrancy to the area.

Okay, all right.

So I think you're answering my question.

You're basically saying you think D is more cover commercially viable.

Yeah, okay.

Uh so I I'm not a commuter.

I live like two blocks north of this.

Um, but it seems to me kind of once again, um, this is not really commuter centric because once again you're making the the commuters walk.

Um this is not really commuter centric because once again you're making the commuters walk.

Um I'll speak for commuters, even though I'm not one.

I think the one place that they really want to have parking is where you've got the surface parking, and then maybe you know, where the park and the uh uh or D is um and in that same sense, you know, you you show potentially, I understand it's potentially, but G now you're going down to two stories there uh and putting a parking deck there.

Um, I'll agree with my good friend Dave Weeks that would be a great place for affordable housing and senior housing.

I just don't think, and especially two stories, I just don't think that's the best use for that property.

Uh and I think you've got some opportunities to maybe take some of that parking, get it closer to the train station for the commuters and go from there.

So I could say quickly on on that note, and I think it's it's a great point, and and that's it's important to keep in mind.

Um a lot of what we thought about in terms of laying out where that density was was that sensitivity to the density.

So I mean you're absolutely right.

You could start to flip it and push that density further east.

Um we led based on the feedback we were hearing with wanting to keep it to the west, but it's it's not to say that it couldn't exist over there, and I think that's certainly a good part of the conversation that should happen.

I I think the traffic study will also inform us because where the commuters are coming from, which direction they're coming from.

Let's just say if some of those commuters were coming from the south or the east, um, and you move the commuter parking from where it's currently located on G right now to behind D, you're basically crossing over Ellsworth and three other potential vehicular pedestrian conflicts, and it brings more traffic to Fifth Street.

If you can get those commuters into the parking garage and get to them to the platform in a relatively you know expedition manner, um you avoid some of those conflicts we talked about.

So some of those goals we are trying to achieve with traffic calming, make it more pedestrian friendly by just moving the commuters to the most convenient parking might exacerbate that issue.

In addition, I would say um D offers a mixed use opportunity uh if for no other reason than it's controlled by a traffic light.

Uh the children's museum site is a more difficult maneuvering.

Um, and I I would say that uh having that ability to stop at Washington and Fifth Avenue adds value from a commercial perspective.

With regard to the you know, the parking and the parking deck that we're showing in phase two, G all the way to the east, you know, part of our um charge was to make sure that we were being responsible relative to the existing parking that you have now.

And I think I think we approach this saying let's let's look at the 1650 cars or whatever we have, and we're gonna try to protect 80 percent of those.

I think a very early part of the next you know, stage of the process is going to be the vetting of how many cars do you really need.

What is the magic number?

I would say it's less than more.

Um there's also a an abundance of parking in Route 59, and we had conversations with people that said tell everybody to go out to Route 59 and park.

There's 4,000 spots there or something like that.

So, and and many of them were are empty.

Uh we want to be sensitive to the fact that there's a lot of commuters here that are living you know east of Washington that really don't want to drive out to Route 59 every day and increase their commute by another you know, 15 to 20 minutes each way, depending upon the traffic.

So I think step one is to really understand from a traffic uh perspective um is to really understand what is it that we need to provide for from a parking uh standpoint for this to be ultimately successful for the city.

Okay, we have three more people.

Okay, hello, thank you.

I'm Jane Brigaman, and I live in the top right corner right up there.

And also thank you to city staff and council for doing this this way now.

Um a couple of things have already been addressed that I was gonna mention, but I'd like to emphasize that the public sector career people like myself, we are becoming a big boomer population.

And we're not going to downsize to one million dollar condos.

So please keep that in mind.

When I saw a picture of a couple of places that were alluded to is people can downsize to these.

I know what those cost.

No way.

But we offer a lot to our community, like coming to meetings like this and other things, volunteering things.

Also, an observation is over the many many years since the Fifth Avenue station was renovated.

There were some wonderful restaurants and businesses in that main floor.

They are no longer there.

Commuters don't want to stay in the train station neighborhood.

They want to go home in the evening.

So we can't count on some restaurants coming in.

It'd be great.

I'd love it.

I could walk to it, but most people aren't going to do that.

But then the biggest thing also that was my concern, and it was also mentioned by a previous speaker.

Um sustainability, environmental concerns, a lot of rooftop greenery.

There is a sun up there.

Every single building that you've proposed has a potential for fantastic passive solar and active solar.

And do not ignore that.

I hope that'll probably come up during architecture plans and so on.

I think I hope the city council makes that a priority to capitalize on an opportunity that most places do not have.

There will never be anything built on that side of the on the railroad tracks.

So thank you very much.

Hey there, good evening.

My name is Tim Herman.

I live in the top left corner over there.

And uh most of good comments about the process and what you're doing here, just a couple uh couple questions.

One easy one.

Uh the parking deck lower left.

I remember the height of that was kind of controversial.

My eyes aren't good enough to see how many stories are thick in there.

Curious about that and and how cars get out of there, especially commuters.

Uh my other question is um scope creep.

Um, I know this is kind of focused on land that the city already owns.

I'm wondering if there's any um if there's any uh possibility of additional land being acquired.

I'm wondering if they're uh if we should think about this as being confined to the lots you have there, or if there's a potential for it to creep north of Fifth Avenue along Washington or south of north.

Thank you.

I could speak to the parking deck question just because I have it here.

Um so like John mentioned earlier, we were just using the um the numbers of 1650 or whatever it was.

We were trying to meet the numbers that are there.

Doesn't um include a put uh uh a study that is definitely warranted to figure out how much parking you really need.

Um that said, this parking structure shows um 150 cars at five stories, so 150 cars per story at five stories gets us 750 cars.

But again, this is all gonna be part of a future study to really determine and drill down how much parking we need in that area.

Regarding the scope creep, uh when I first was approached um for this opportunity, boy, probably back in March or April, Swasti, is that about right?

My my first reaction was there's there's way too much stuff as it is.

So the idea of adding more to this, I think is gonna make things more complicated.

The acquisition of more land.

Um I think we've got enough uh on our plate right now in terms of the parcels that have been identified.

Um adding more to it, I think would just further complicate it.

Um I'd I'd rather see, you know, I'd rather see parcels eliminated than added.

That's just me speaking.

I think there is an opportunity uh though it's not present today, but there's an air there are several areas, but area B in in particular is one that makes a slightly odd configuration that you could work around, but if that were made into a single parcel, that might be one opportunity to look at.

Um I don't know the history, and I won't propose that the owners of that land be contacted, but uh that when we were looking at it, that was one obvious spot that seemed to make sense.

Just throwing that out there.

We've also seen that in so many other communities, you know, a development becomes a catalyst for other things.

And so, even in the planning of this master plan, if it happens this way, um other development sites might present themselves because they want to become part of something that um that thinks about a master plan.

That should probably be a discussion on the TIFF boundary too, where that where the limits are set.

Good evening.

My name is Mary Lou, and I'd like to thank you very much for donating your time and talents to this amazing project.

I very solid presentation of a next stepping stone.

I used to live on Ellsworth Street, and back in the 60s, we'd bake cookies to sell at the returning commuters.

I live a little bit further west now.

But my question is in your wisdom, uh, what do you what are your thoughts on whether the city should retain any ownership of this property or should let it go for sale?

What kind of cookies were there?

I'm a bit peckish right now.

I could go for something.

As the developer, I guess I would just say it again, it it boils down to this is a complicated process, and the city should really evaluate all tools at its disposal to try and accomplish you know the build out of the plan that they desire.

So uh that could that could come in in many, many forms, but it's really it's really up to the sills the city to leverage the tools that they have available to make the ultimately make the economics and the private sector be able to build out this development.

You know, I'd I'd add just to tag on that.

I think when we discussed in terms of affordable, um, as one's particular direction that deed restrictions and things like that to protect the affordability might be one avenue that isn't outright ownership by the city or land lease or anything like that, but something that does remain with the land uh that that can at least make sure and retain that that remains affordable if that's the avenue that's pursued.

I think that's an important component.

Matt and Vic, I want to follow up for with a question for both of you guys.

Um what would be more lucrative to the developer?

And not that that's necessarily what the city is looking for, but I but the goal is to get a developer to come in and propose on this.

So what would be more attractive to a developer?

A public-private partnership or a clean land sale and why the the gut reaction to that question is the simplest path is often going to be the most uh attractive um for obvious reasons, and and whether or not economically you can underwrite it several different ways, and maybe it's better for a land lease or something like that.

But generally speaking, if if a developer can a private developer can get in and be sure and have that certainty about what parameters they're working with, and they're able to exit when they need to, um generally speaking, that's gonna be more often pursued.

And then they would be able to pay the most for the land, the subject land.

That's correct, yeah.

Okay.

It's probably you know, just worth adding that the the idea while it's 14 acres and it's in a very attractive location, the amount of infrastructure that needs to be put in place to make it developable.

It's not like this is a windfall land sale that you know everything can be accomplished and the city's gonna make lots and lots of money.

It's that's not the reality.

But using tools like TIFF, creating something from nothing in terms of tax dollars is really how I think the where the focus should lie, and whatever tools make the most sense and can incentivize private development to you know take big financial risks to see that this uh property comes through or this project comes to fruition.

Brad's I'd offer that that most developers that work in the business that Matt and I work in would be eager to come and join the uh the neighborville community with any circumstance.

I don't think you're gonna have a difficult time finding private developers that want to be here regardless for what it's worth for sure.

I've had there was an article in the Naperville Sun a month ago, maybe, um, regarding this process.

I happen to be quoted in it.

I've had three calls from existing clients saying, tell us when you know, you know, tell us when the gates are open and we'll be there.

So I I do think uh obviously, as we stated at the beginning, it's a very, very attractive community.

There's great opportunity here.

We just need to make sure we do it responsibly for all parties, including those who are developing it.

So I just want to add that.

I understand we're out of time, so I'll be quick here.

My name's Dan Penovich.

Uh rode the BNSF for 42 years of my career, so uh very familiar with the area, but I live about a mile south and east of this area.

Uh with all due respect to the architects in on the panel.

Um it's really hard to make a parking garage five stories tall make make it look good.

Uh order of magnitude, could you give us an idea about uh a subgrade parking garage versus an above grade parking garage in terms of what the cost is?

Uh and then the other comment I'm making or I wanted to make is that uh I drive by this the train station almost daily, and since COVID, I've seen the parking lot get more and more and more full, especially during the middle of the week.

So I think I applaud the panel for suggesting we look at a commuter study to see actually what how many spaces we'll need uh because I think going to Route 59 for parking is impractical for most people, you know, like you say, east of Washington Street.

Thank you very much.

I'll defend my architect brethren on the panel.

And and uh respectfully tell you that we can make a parking structure that's five stories tall, very handsome.

Um and we could mask it in in ways, and we've done this, um, where it's more of a uh value add than a diminishment.

Um that being said, a deck, an architecturally significant deck above grade, um, and I know we have some concrete people in the audience tonight, but uh you know the I would tell you it's 35 to 40,000 a stall to develop that.

So do the math.

That's above above grade.

So let's say there's you know, let's say there's 700 cars at 40,000 a piece, that's 28 million dollars to build that deck.

If you went down, I I I couldn't even guess what the number would be to replicate that.

Um it would be cost prohibitive, and you could never do it.

So uh we want to stay above, you know, the terra firma uh in order to solve this problem because it's gonna be that's that parking, you know, issue is going to be pivotal in the economics of this entire parcel.

We haven't talked about it, but there are other parking garage projects that um there's one in Miami, for instance, that I think of that is a parking garage, but it also has an event space in it, and so they can be programmed in such a way that it's a value add to John's point.

Um doesn't have to be only a parking garage, it can have active spaces within it.

And and a simple example, if you look at D, you know, we've talked about context to the neighborhood.

Uh D is a parking garage which is wrapped on the north and east side, north facing the neighborhood, east facing the um multi-purpose market events, yeah, the community space, uh wrapped with residential.

So uh that's a way to mask to um to wrap the parking garage.

The last thing really quick is just because that location at a street level and track level, of course, uh are very different.

There is some amount of sort of quasi underground that is maybe assumed to be able to be used, that that density on the north side at least wouldn't appear to be the same as what it would be on the south, just given the nature of it.

Uh so that's you know, part of the exploration, but just wanted to add that to the conversation.

Is that it?

We're very thankful to be here.

I think one thing to add that I should have said at the beginning is you as residents of this city um should be very proud and appreciative of the leadership that you have in this community from your elected leaders, from your business leaders, from all the people that we spoke to.

Uh it's it's very, very impressive, and people are working very, very hard on your collective behalf uh to make you know a great place better.

So kudos to uh to all the folks that are part of this city that make it run every day uh for the benefit of all the rest of us.

So thank you to them.

Yes, sir.

Those of us who are slow thinkers formulate our questions tonight, there's somewhere we could set our questions or comments.

That's a good question.

I don't know how that plays out.

I'm sure there is.

Are they flying online from one?

Yes.

Aren't they gonna be part of they're not?

Okay, I apologize.

Yeah, this meeting is being streamed right now, and so it'll be on our city website.

Uh the slides are not on the city website, but there is going to be a report that will be issued by ULI.

Yes, so not exactly these slides, but these maps will be in the report, and you would be able to read them better.

Like it's hard when it's up there.

Yes.

Yeah, so you would be able to, like uh, when we have the report ready, it will be a PDF downloadable, and you can print it and you should be able to read it much better.

Is there somewhere we can set our questions if we have report about it?

Um, I'm sure you can there is um from ULI's perspective, while we want to stay engaged, there's also a finite amount of time when we are closing this and uh sort of submitting our report.

Like uh so I would say perhaps um I don't want to volunteer Allison's email, but like I don't know.

If you want to transmit those to us uh in the next um you know, within the next few days or so, so we have them.

Um but um I can also like or I don't know how to do that.

I have Mayor Worley's cell phone right here.

If you want that, that might be quicker.

On the city website, there is um you can enter in uh the city help center.

You can enter in questions in the city help center, and and that's how you should route any questions about um this process or whatever you wanted to formulate after this.

But like Shwasi said the ULI they'll be disengaging, but if you have questions, it should come in through the City Help Center on our website.

What happens next?

What happens next after this?

Uh ULI is going to issue a report.

City manager?

What's it?

We haven't got a lot of people.

Yeah, we we haven't sorted that one out.

Um obviously we're gonna make the report public.

Um, but uh we will figure out a way to get your input uh through our GovQA system.

And um it's really gonna be up to the city council uh to help us determine what those next steps are.

But we don't have we currently do not have a timeline scheduled out for that.

Thank you, everyone.