Good evening.

The October 7th, Naperville City Council meeting is called to order.

Roll call, please.

Orly.

Here.

Gibson.

Here.

Holds Hour.

Here.

Jane.

Here.

Kelly.

Here.

McBroom.

Here.

Cyan.

Yeah.

White.

Here.

Wilson.

Here.

Please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

We're gonna begin tonight with the awards and recognitions, and I'm gonna come down to the podium down there for this.

Tonight it is our city's honor to present the senior citizen of the year awards.

And tonight we have two very excellent recipients of this award.

The first is Margaret Rush.

Margaret.

You can join me.

It is our pleasure to honor someone whose dedication to community, compassion for others, and unwavering leadership have made a lasting impact on Naperville.

Since moving here in 1994 with her husband Mark and their three young children, Margaret has embraced Naperville not just as a place to live, but as a place to serve.

With no connections when they arrived, she jumped in head first, volunteering, leading, and building relationships.

What began as supporting her children's school soon grew into a lifelong mission to strengthen the community around her?

Her drive to help others started early.

As the oldest sibling to a brother with learning disabilities, she naturally became his advocate, and that sense of responsibility never left her.

Raised by parents and grandparents who believe service was a way of life, she followed in their footsteps with humility and heart.

Through her work with the Naperville Newcomers and Neighbors Club, she has empowered others, fostered connections, and helped guide the organization into a very vibrant future.

Her work.

I I adore it.

I think um a lot all the leaders here have made it just a remarkable place to live.

And as um as president of newcomers, I always took that responsibility very soon, um, seriously because I wanted newcomers to be the number one.

I wanted that designation.

And uh, we always strive, and look at the team.

It's always a team.

It's always just this group effort.

Um, because you can't do anything alone, right?

And um, the team is just amazing.

We always have support.

Whenever we need it, whenever we're doing anything for the community, we have our team.

And um, it doesn't matter what you're doing.

If you have great people around you, it's all gonna work.

It's all going to come together.

And so um, being a part of Naperville Newcomers and Neighbors Club has really changed my life.

It really has.

I started out as communications director there, and uh, in two thousand nineteen, I became president, and uh, it's been an honor, and it was a challenge during COVID, but we we sort of overcame it, and we became better, and we became closer.

And um, I have tremendous friends here in Naperville.

Um, such great support.

Um my family is here.

They're amazing.

Um, and with my husband's support of always just giving me, you know, the freedom to just hey, do what you love.

And uh, that's exactly what I've been able to do.

And it's really truly an honor to be uh recognized by the senior task force.

Um, I have to thank Debbie Liebert for coming up with the idea of nominating me.

I had no idea that this was this nomination was around.

And uh, she came up with the idea actually on my birthday this past July.

And so she pulled it together in a couple of weeks, and here we are.

So um, I just want to thank you very, very much.

I I will continue to serve Naperville in any way I can't do that.

Types of uh work I uh just have gained so much uh in the way of uh friends and knowledge uh being with the city, and uh it's just something that uh I will carry with me forever.

Um the poem that I had mentioned uh is something that I live with every day.

I say it to myself almost every single day, and uh I really uh try to put that into uh work with my actions.

So uh thank you again for uh this great honor today.

Next is public forum.

As we start the public forum, I'd like to remind everyone of the citizen participation rules in the city's municipal code for speaking at city council meetings.

Speakers are asked to present their comments in a respectful and courteous manner.

Speakers should stay on topic and be cognizant of their words.

Personal attacks on council members, staff, other speakers, or members of the audience are not allowed.

If inappropriate language or comments are expressed during this meeting, you will be asked immediately to stop commenting.

Also, for audience members, there is no cheering and no jeering.

Actions such as applauding, cheering, finger snapping, booing, or other noises during or at the conclusion of any remarks made by any speaker are not allowed.

If this occurs, you will be asked to stop immediately, and if it continues to persist, I will recess the meeting until the audience abides by the rules in our city code.

No speaker should ever feel intimidated by the crowd.

Audience disruption is meant to intimidate those speaking, and I will not allow it in the chambers.

Audience members with signs, the signs must not block any other audience members' view.

Speakers are given three minutes to address the council to help speakers stay within the three minute time frame.

We have a timer on the side dais to your right.

If a speaker's name is called and they are not in the room, we will move on to the next speaker, and we will not go back.

Speakers are encouraged to remain in council chambers until the conclusion of public forum in the event council members want to ask follow-up questions.

The first speaker is Kevin Gould, followed by Lisa Pulsby and Sam and Talk.

As you've heard your names called, please move to this front row so we can keep the meeting going as efficiently as possible.

I was unable to attend the city council meeting in person on September 16th, but I called up with the recording to stay up to date with events and discussions.

And during that meeting, uh Mayor Worley made some comments about the state of division in our country and how we should treat each other as people.

They are not our enemies.

Love the person whose thoughts you are protesting against, like you would love yourself.

Love the person whose thoughts you are protesting against like you would love yourself.

It's a different version of do onto others as you would do onto as you would want others to do onto you.

But I think it's a little bit more meaningful.

It really touches on coming from a place of love where there is a lot of hate in our society today.

And I wanted to sincerely commend the mayor for his remarks.

It is absolutely critical that we see and treat each other, not as enemies, as people and as neighbors.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker, please.

The next speaker is Lisa Polsby, followed by Sam Entel.

My name is Lisa Polesby.

I'm a concerned Naperville resident.

I strongly oppose allowing Keras to build a data center in the old Lucent site.

The data center they propose is not like the data centers of five to ten years ago that had little environmental impact.

These new data centers require a lot of electricity and have noisy fans that run continuously.

In the first phase, the data center would use 34 megawatts of electricity, which is 34,000 times the amount of electricity in my house.

The data center needs double that amount in phase two.

In addition to the electrical grid power, 48 diesel generators are needed for backup power.

Each generator sounds like a locomotive engine.

Only two generators are allowed to be tested at a time because they are so very loud.

The generators must be tested for at least one hour every month.

That means the sound of two locomotives for three days every month in addition to the fan noises.

When the electricity goes down, then all the generators work at once to supply the electricity.

When that happened at another data center, the noise was so deafening that all the residents of nearby homes had to be relocated for the duration.

Having diesel generators means having large tanks to hold all the fuel.

The size of the tanks for this data center are much larger than what any gas station or even any truck stop is allowed to hold.

If the tanks leak significantly, then our groundwater will become polluted and well water will become undrinkable.

Filling diesel tanks and keeping them filled will mean trucks carrying diesel fuel driving to and from the site at all hours.

Likely lithium ion batteries will be needed to transition from the electrical grid to diesel.

Having lithium-ion batteries and large quantities of diesel fuel presents the risk of unstoppable fires, which should not be close to homes.

The only reason to consider having a data center is that it would pay a million dollars a year in property taxes.

That money is negligible if you consider the fact that the data center is so noisy that home values near the site would be diminished by more than a million dollars collectively.

Without data centers, we are on track to be carbon neutral using solar and wind power for our electric grid.

With data centers and no nuclear power, fossil fuels will be required and our climate warming will be vastly accelerated.

We should not allow Keras to put a data center on the old loosen site.

Data centers should be zoned as heavy industry only.

Heavy industry should not be close to residential areas.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

The next speakers are Sam Entile, Bud Rain, and Doreen Swindle.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Uh, Sam Ental, Neighborville residents.

And I'd like to build on what the council has already heard about activist groups getting uh SECA funds.

And we remember that one recipient shared an inappropriate post about Charlie Kirk, and uh SECA funds are to go on the according to the website to go towards celebrating the heritage and character of Naperville, and free speech does not come with thousands of taxpayer dollars.

And because the SECA funds are fungible, those dollars are fungible, it's important to take into account a recipient's other public activities.

And this goes beyond the Kirk post.

We've seen seeker recipients post about celebrating various gender identities.

One YouTube page features several storytime children's book readings, some read by costumed adults with sexually charged monikers.

And so I want to take a quick look at psychological studies and why this is relevant to SECA.

So for example, one study, one series of peer-reviewed studies explored children's transgender identification and found that subjects, quote, either had an increase in their social media internet use, belong to a friend group in which one or more multiple friends became transgender identified during a similar time frame, or both, end quote.

And so the children interpreted this identity as related to their distress, and the kids were following a positive feedback loop that they were given.

And this is not the only large scale study or case study that bears this out.

What the data shows that it is dangerous to move children or minors into sexual interpretations of themselves that don't account for what is actually going on with them emotionally or mentally.

And so this is why multiple countries around the world have various laws shielding kids from gender ideologies or hormonal or physical alterations, including the UK, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Slovakia, Georgia, et cetera, and about half of the 50 states have done the same.

And they have these protective laws because the data shows that it has harmed countless children who don't have proper informed consent.

One plaintiff who won her case in which she was psyoped into making a gender decision that ultimately harmed her, described what happened to her as quote, a devastating experiment, and quote.

There are scores of under other individuals, some well known like Chloe Cole or Prisha Mosley, or some anonymous who talk about how they were manipulated as minors.

And this phenomenon of social media influence or socially being celebrated if they adopt a certain identity comes up over and over.

And support organizations for these individuals has served thousands and thousands.

So, bottom line, SECA dollars should not be funding enterprises that could contribute to the sort of social devastating experiment that too many young people have undergone.

So we should be leaders in that regard.

The data is there.

It's just not appropriate.

It's not only social inappropriate social media posts, but Naperville shouldn't be complicit in the kind of social experiments or regard for the kids on the subject that I've talked about here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

The following three speakers are Bud Rain, Doreen Swindle, and Laura Navarro.

Good evening, Mayor and Council members.

I'm Bud Ryan, a resident of Donata Woods, which directly borders the proposed CARS critical data center site.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight, and I'm here to respectfully ask you to reconsider the suitability of this development.

Not because I oppose development in general, but because this particular project conflicts with Naperville's zoning, long-term planning goals, infrastructure limits, and public health priorities.

CARAS Critical is proposing to build a hyperscale data center on the former Lucent Nokia property, two 30,000 square foot buildings, and a large power substation, all on a 40-acre site.

By today's data center standards, a facility of this scale is not light industry.

These centers are power-intensive, infrastructure heavy, and carry significant environmental and public health risks.

Although the site is zoned for research in light industry, that zoning does not align with what's being proposed here.

And this is not an isolated industrial zone.

It borders residential neighborhoods, a sensory park for children, the DuPage Montessori School, a spiritual center, and the Donata Forest Preserve.

In fact, in 2020, part of this same property was rezoned for residential development, and 250 homes were built, a clear signal of the city's intent for this area's future.

And the infrastructure demands of the proposed data center are staggering.

Phase one alone would require 34 megawatts of electricity, about 10% of Naperville's total peak usage, equivalent to 27,000 homes, concentrating that much power in one user stresses the grid and limits future availability and flexibility for residences and built and businesses.

Finally, there are public health and safety concerns to consider.

This facility will store large amounts of diesel fuel for backup generators with monthly testing that emits known carcinogens, including diesel particulate matter, right next to a school, homes, and parks.

While we trust our first responders, I wonder if they are prepared for a hazmat level emergency in a residential area.

The good news here is that this is not a case of first impression.

Other cities have faced these issues.

Aurora, for example, enacted a moratorium after experiencing serious impacts from a similar data center development, including diesel emissions and noise, to study long-term consequences.

We should learn from that experience.

So tonight I asked this council to require independent, transparent studies on energy, water, air, and noise impact before granting any conditional use permits.

And I urge you to honor Naperville's established planning vision for this area and the city's sustainability goals.

This project may have merit, but not in this location.

Thank you for your time and your service to our city.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

The next speaker is Doreen Swindle.

My name is Doreen Swindall, and I have lived in Naperville all my life.

I have come here tonight to tell the mayor and the city council that I agree with Councilman Josh McGroom that all taxpayers have the right to demand a retraction and an apology.

As a taxpayer, I demand an apology and retraction from Councilman Josh McGroom for threatening residents of Naperville and the safety of our community, simply put, because of his personal bias.

It is an irresponsible use of power to withhold government support from vital organizations that advocate for the welcome, inclusion, and fair treatment of all members in our community.

His rhetoric does not encourage trust in our government representatives to protect our rights and our resources.

I demand all or request all Sika and taxpayer funding for Charlie Kirk's turning point USA.

Be married to the LGBTQ pride forever.

What happens to one happens to the other.

Learn to live together.

Council McBroom also says, and I quote, everyone has the right to free speech, but nobody has the right to force you to listen.

I agree.

Residents have the right to change the channel, block someone, hang up the phone.

I feel he has threatened taxpayers with our own money.

I demand and request a retraction and apology, censure until removing, until removal for fanning the flames of unrest.

Councilman Josh McRoom is a financial liability for Naperville.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

Thank you.

Just as a reminder, in the council rules, we specifically said finger snapping, not allowed.

Okay.

The final speaker is Laura Navarro.

And in addition to our six public forum speakers, there were also two written comments posted to the website.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, members of the city council and the city staff.

My name is Laura Navarro, and I am a founder of Almas, Alliance of Latinos Motivating Action in the Suburbs.

And I'm here tonight on behalf of our board of directors to correct for the public record, promote accurate understanding and uphold the integrity of Almas's ongoing partnership with the city.

A Naperville Council member recently claimed on their city council Facebook page that Almas actively discouraged attendance and boycotted another Sika funded event.

That claim is false.

The Almas up-ed in question was published five days after the event took place, making such claims factually impossible.

For the record, Almas never called for a boycott or discouraged participation in any event.

Our op-ed published on September 18 was written in response to a Naperville Sun article titled Forget Politics.

Let's just enjoy art and culture at Naperville Hispanic Fest.

The op ed encouraged reflection on what it truly means to support cultural events, not only by attending, but by standing with the people whose experiences and stories bring that culture to life, suggesting that culture can be experienced apart from politics.

It's just not a privilege that many Hispanic or Latinos Latino families have at this moment in time.

For many, the same culture being celebrated is also the one under intense scrutiny, with people facing discrimination, detainment, and deportation fears because of how they look, how they sound, where they live, and where they work.

Acknowledging this reality is not divisive.

It is essential to building empathy and understanding.

The councilman uh council members post also stated that Almas use SICA funds to advocate on federal issues.

That is incorrect.

As a 501c3 nonprofit, Almas adheres strictly to IRS regulations.

We are a nonpartisan and do not endorse or oppose any kind candidates.

Our advocacy focuses solely on issues directly aligned with our mission, work that is fully permitted under federal law.

Every cent of Sika support is used for our Dia de Muertos celebration, a feat, a free family, uh family-friendly event that welcomes all.

In a response to the council members' post and active Sister CETI's commissioner, also alleged that Almas attacked or sought to eliminate the Sister Cities Foundation or Commission.

That too is false.

Our engagement has been open and transparent, documented in public meetings on September 13 and uh 19, 2023, and a written comment on submitted on December 5th, 2023.

Almas is proud to be Naperville's first Latino-led and Latino serve serving nonprofit.

Our mission is to celebrate culture, foster community, and empower families.

We remain a committed partner in Naperville's cultural landscape and a proud SICA grant recipient.

We invite you to experience that partnership firsthand at our third annual via de Muertos celebration on Saturday, November 1st in downtown Neighborville.

And I have flyers to share with anyone that is interested.

Please come.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Are there any more speakers?

Hearing none.

Council members, anybody have anything for public forum as a reminder for the coefficient members have three minutes to speak during public forum.

Can speak up the two times.

Councilman Alzar.

Thank you, Mayor.

I had a question for Mr.

Krieger.

One of the speakers, Mr.

I hope I'm pronouncing his last name right, right?

Ryan Bud had mentioned that Aurora had put a temporary freeze on the construction of data centers.

Can you provide some insight as to what Aurora did Mr.

Krieger?

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

And my understanding is that a temporary moratorium was placed on both uh data centers as well as warehouse.

Um and that actually that is all of the detail that that have at this time.

All right.

Um, all the topics I've seen on city council in the last five years, I think this is the one that's probably drawn top three most interest that I've seen.

Um there are a number of thoughts about it, uh, starting with significant addition to the tax base, um, addition of school districts, um, potential interest in expanding into clean energy sources.

Um the other hand, very legitimate concerns from neighbors about things like noise, diesel generators, um, even the layout of the property, the way that that that could be um structured.

Umundally, we're talking about a user that could draw, would draw as much power as 130,000 people uh in the community when you do the conversion from households to people, that's what it is 130,000.

Similar to something like 50 to 70 super Walmarts running 24 7.

Um so I think before we make a decision on something of that magnitude, which isn't a decades long decision about the character of our community.

I just want to make sure we're uh deliberative.

Specifically for me, I would like clarity on where that energy is coming from.

So is that going to come from coal power under a renewal of our IMEA contract, or is there going to be some kind of provision where that user would bring its own clean energy?

For me, that would make an enormous uh difference in uh how I see it.

Um, I'm not going to raise it tonight in new business, but I'm just going to signal that in the future, perhaps in the next meeting, I could support something similar to what we saw in Napri.

I'm sorry, in Aurora, I could support a temporary pause that's clearly defined, aimed at setting a fair and transparent standard that we can give to our developers and our community so they know that we're not just making ad hoc decisions.

Um I don't think it's fair to anybody if they don't even know the standards by which we are we're making this decision.

Thank you, Mayor.

Councilman White.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um question is uh as well.

I think the speaker was Ms.

Uh Pulsby and mentioned uh about the generators and how they're no, they have to test them every 30 days and so on.

Um I did why came into a PCC meeting and kind of heard some of that discussion.

I'm just curious uh if anyone from staff can help me out here.

Is the plan to the Keris presented to test two per month, two at a time per no per day, I guess, so that they get tested every 30 days, or will they all is it be more than that?

Will they all happen at the same time?

And if so, um where do they fall as far as the noise uh ordinance and so forth?

Go ahead.

Ms.

Left.

Thank you.

Um, I cannot give you uh solid information about the testing of the generators, although there is um this is next scheduled for the plan commission on next Wednesday.

Um, so it will go back for to reconvene the public hearing, and all of those details will be discussed at that point as well.

Um, we did uh have a third-party um sound engineer review their noise uh projections, and they did find that it will be in compliance with our city requirements.

And that was based off of how many generators running like the whole scope of all the information that was provided to the sound engineer.

They reviewed all the engineering plans and all the details about the operations and found that it would comply.

Okay, so worst case, uh they have the power outage and they have to run all the generators uh at the same time.

So that test that they that was done by uh by Keras showed that it was still in compliance with all the generators running.

I don't, I I don't want to get bad information.

So I I know that the sound engineer reviewed the full package.

I can't speak to exactly uh what was included, but again, it will be reviewed by the plan commission.

Um, all of that information will be provided in more detail at that point.

Okay, thanks.

If you can get that for us or wait for their results, that'd be fine.

Okay.

Uh thank you.

Councilwoman Gibson.

Uh yes, thank you, Mayor.

I think this is a question for city manager Krieger.

Um, I've seen a lot of disinformation about the SECA program.

So I just want to clarify when groups receive SECA funding, it's for a specific event or art project.

Correct.

It's not for general funding for that group.

Um can't be used for payroll.

There's a lot of vetting and specific rules on how those funds can be used, correct?

Mr.

Krieger.

Uh thank you.

Um, yes, that's correct.

The uh uh recipients in their application have to be very specific, and there are a number of rules that prohibit uh what those funds can be used for.

I don't have the you know the full list in front of me, but it is fairly restrictive.

Okay, thank you.

And then just a follow-up for legal counsel.

Um, that accepting funds for a specific event doesn't give the city the ability to control an organization's speech or First Amendment rights outside of that specific event or piece of art, correct?

Counselor Spinel.

That's correct.

I mean they do have a first amendment right to free speech.

All right, thank you.

Okay, seeing no other speakers.

Our next item is consent agenda.

May have a motion to use the omnibus method to approve the consent agenda.

Councilman White.

Mayor move to use omnibus method to approve the consent agenda.

Second Kelly.

We have a motion and a second to use the omnibus method to approve the consent agenda.

All those in favor sign aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Motion passes nine zero.

May you have a motion to approve the consent agenda removing I-13 for speakers.

Mayor move to approve the consent agenda uh removing item I-13.

Second Kelly.

Motion and a second.

Removing I-13.

Approval of the regular city council meeting minutes of September 16th, 2025.

Approval of the city council meeting schedule for October, November, and December 2025.

Approval of the appointment of Councilwoman Jane and to the advisory commission on disability and councilman McBroom to the Transportation Advisory Board.

Approval of the appointment, an appointment to the planning and zoning commission.

Approval of the award of a single source procurement for fire station alerting system maintenance to purbis systems for an amount not to exceed 204,250 for a three-year term.

Approval of the award of the bid for gravel sand and aggregate materials to bout and materials for an amount not to exceed 528,871 dollars for a 15-month term.

Approval of the award of the bid for flight field services for tollway substation transformers to trans fluid services for an amount not to exceed 147,818.

Approval of the award of the RFQ work order for streetscape phase two design, Jefferson and Maine to Thomas Engineering Group for an amount not to exceed 189,565 and 96 cents.

Approval of the award of the RFP for EMS billing software solution to image trend for an amount not to exceed 168,268.94 cents for a five-year term.

Approval of the award of the cooperative procurement for backhoe loader replacement unit 55 to West Side Tractor Sales for an amount not to exceed 201,856.11 cents.

Approval of the award of the jog procurement for 4th Avenue train station bridge stair and signage improvements to roy construction for an amount not to exceed 113,7919 cents.

Approval of the award of change order number one to the contract for 2025 payment markings to maintenance coatings company for an amount not to exceed $18,985 and five cents.

Accepting the public street improvements at Neighbor Commons Phase Three, the public streetlight improvements at Naperville Wheaton Townhomes and authorizing the city clerk to reduce the corresponding public improvement surety.

Passing the ordinance declaring necessity of use and authorizing the transfer of property for the benefit of city the city of Neighborville.

Passing the ordinance authorizing participation in the IEPA's public water supply loan program for a 30-year loan in an amount not to exceed $3 million $500,000 for lead water service line removal.

Passing the ordinance to establish temporary traffic controls and issuing a special event and amplifier permit for the Turkey Trot 5K run on Thursday, November 27th, 2025, and passing the ordinance to establish temporary traffic controls and issuing a special event and amplifier permit for the Rotary Club of Neighborville Holiday Parade of Flights on Friday, November 28th, 2025.

We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda removing I-13 roll call.

Morley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I McBroone.

I cyan.

I Wayne.

I Wilson.

All right.

Motion passes 9-0.

Next item.

Item A13 is a recommendation to approve the 2026 and 2027 annual new sidewalk program.

We have two speakers, Donna Malone followed by Patrick Malone, and posted to the website was one statement of support and one written comment.

Got it.

Hello.

Um Pat and Donna Malone, long time Naperville residents, 40 plus years.

We love Naperville.

We don't love the sidewalk gap as much, and we'll tell you why in a minute.

So that's our house there, and we're standing at the top of our hill.

We're at 26 North Julian, corner of Julian and Franklin.

And we show you this picture because you can see how it has a really steep elevation.

Okay.

And uh here's an aerial view of our property.

We actually face Julian, but that right side, all that greenery you see there, those trees, uh the yard, landscape, that's the part where the sidewalk would go right through to close the gap.

So I wanted to first start a little bit about Franklin Avenue in general, just so you can get a sense of what our community looks like.

This is our third home in Naperville, and um it's in the downtown area historic.

We're a block from the historic district.

And if you stood at the top of our hill, you'll see it's just all tree-lined.

And the unique thing about Franklin is it's a very small street.

There's five blocks.

Um small stretch, all tree-lined, lots of landscape, starts at Huffman, ends right at North Central's old main.

The thing about our property is it has a very steep incline.

So 75 foot elevation drop makes a sidewalk difficult to engineer and a walk.

So no one's really walking on this side of the street.

There's a rock wall there that the city made us put in to ensure that we were protecting our neighbors from flooding.

So we were breaking the rainwaters because Huffman and everything behind us would flood with this rock wall.

And just to show how steep it is, next to this rock wall are our stairs that go from our driveway up to the front of our house.

Uh financial considerations are something that I think is important to look at for this.

It's a small street, there's only five blocks, as I said.

City's estimate to close the gaps on the street would be 72,148 dollars.

Our stretch is 10,880, which we think would be underestimated.

That's just based on some formula of how much footage you need to increase these, the sidewalk.

We think it's underestimated due to the slope, wall trees, underground sprinkler system.

But overall, to close the gap on these five blocks, it would still be 72,000.

We don't think it provides a meaningful pedestrian benefit because of the slope, no one's going down this.

The only people that go down there are kids for the thrill of riding their bike down this steep hill.

Um so we think given the investment required, it's not as frugal.

And the most important thing, why we don't think it fits the standard gap closure criteria.

There's a sidewalk, continuous sidewalk across the street that goes all the way down those same five blocks.

So the speaker's time is up.

Okay.

I think he's the next speaker.

Okay.

Next speaker.

Next speaker.

Thank you.

Um as uh Donna was saying, there's a continual sidewalk on the other side, and part of the uh criteria was that there be sidewalks, and this has been on on the other side for for as long as we've lived there, and it's almost 30 years.

So to continue the sidewalk on our side and and spend the money we think is uh would not be proper.

Uh is that the last slide?

Oh there we go.

Uh again.

Um the rock wall was a waswall was our idea, but the the city required us to put in retaining wall for the flood waters that everybody remembers Huffman.

We moved in uh just after the Huffman flood, and so we had to move the water around this the elevation of our property, which the rock wall was put in for extended values, but more or less for the water.

So we think that this would not be a good source of funding for Naperville to break up that wall rock wall, and the sidewalk would about 20 feet from the front to our driveway, and then another 40 feet down to the end of our property, just doesn't make sense to us.

So we'd like to have considered to be exempt from the sidewalk.

It's we're the we're the we're the last property on uh Franklin due to new townhouses on the east of us, and it's a small portion of uh sidewalk that would be affected.

And again, the sidewalk on the other side is continual from Huffman all the way to North Central.

One more slide.

One more slide.

One more slide.

Oh, this is the front of our house.

We take great pride in the landscaping of what we've done over the last 30 years in this house to fit into the neighborhood.

And as you can see, we this is the front of the house.

Franklin is on the north side of our house, which is another part of the landscaping of what we've put into the house.

And um, because we value Naperville, and this is like my wife said this our third house in Naperville.

We've lived here a long time.

Our kids are all gone, but we've chose to stay here as senior citizens because we love the community so much and what we've done uh for the house, we think adds to the historic district.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman White, uh, could I have a motion on I 13 and uh we'll get the motion and second, then we'll open up discussion.

Okay.

We're gonna have the discussion after the motion.

Yes.

Okay.

Mayor move to approve the annual new sidewalk program.

Councilman Kelly.

Second Kelly.

Okay.

Discussion.

Councilman White.

Yeah, thank you.

Um I've I've um I've been to your home before.

I'll just uh at that, and I can from being there, I I I do see the issue that you're describing uh with the steepness of that slope as you start to go down that hill.

Uh yeah, that's gonna be an engineering uh challenge to put a sidewalk in there, and I do recognize the fact that you have the one um sidewalk on the other side of the street, which I think uh um uh in my opinion um allows residents to go up and down the hill.

So um I'm not sure how that would work with the program, but I uh as far as I'm concerned, I'll I would uh uh support exempting um the property from the sidewalk program.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Councilman Kelly.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh yeah, in general, I'm uh I'm a very uh significant proponent of the new sidewalk program.

I think it is a benefit for both adjacent owners and the city as a whole.

Um I do think it's important that we work with neighbors who are immediately adjacent to where the new sidewalks are gonna go.

We've had this come up both a couple of times over the past three or four years.

Uh, there's always a few spots that need a little specific attention, I would say, just to make sure we're really not um not forgetting about any specific logistical challenges at this particular site.

So I I talked to staff earlier about this block, and I guess a question for staff just to make sure I've got it totally straight in my mind.

I I think what I was told was that there's a couple of blocks stretch on Franklin where new sidewalks are uh being um suggested.

My understanding is this specific block where the speakers just spoke about between Julian and Huffman staff would maybe be okay with exempting, but staff would prefer to leave in the new sidewalk on Franklin between Columbia and Julian.

Is that accurate director loud?

Yeah, certainly if um it's the city's council direction um to approve the program, but excluding any of the locations, um, we would just look to pull locations from the contingency list when we bid the projects out over the next two years in order to bring it up to that targeted amount of um program that we spend each year, which is around 300,000.

Okay.

So and just a quick follow-up for staff, and then maybe a question for the speakers if they might be able to come back up.

If we were to remove this one block between Julian and Huffman from staff's perspectives, is that present a challenge for the block between Columbia and Julian?

And then the follow-up would be for the residents would doing that solve the problem that you're concerned about.

Um, so it does not um limit our ability to complete that gap.

So it does not um limit our ability to complete that gap um the other block that we were looking at we really kind of take each of these segments individually when we do the scoring and send out the surveys you know I think an important thing to consider with the sidewalk program as a whole is that we've been doing this for over 20 years and it's accomplished really great things.

It's really achieved the goal of the comprehensive sidewalk policy that was adopted we've done over 15 miles of sidewalk gaps and so most places in town now have sidewalk on at least one side of the street which was really the key goal so you were absolutely correct when you said that um there is sidewalk on the other side and you question you know why are we still proposing the gap we are still moving towards trying to get sidewalk on both sides of every street but the scoring for this gap does actually lose points because it acknowledges that there is sidewalk on the other side so um you know we kind of acknowledge that the gaps that we're pursuing at this time um you know are definitely a bit more challenging um that's why they're still here 20 years later so um you know understand that you know there's more consideration here on this one go ahead mayor if we could hear from speakers is would that be uh an acceptable solve from your perspective if we eliminate uh between Julian and Huffman but leave in between Columbia and Julian if I'm following that means our house would be intact that you would not put a sidewalk and that's why we're here for the third time because we would love to have that as the outcome just wanted to make sure yes all right absolutely all right thank you and then mayor if I have if I could two other questions not on a specific gap but we we had a number of comments uh written comments during the tab uh hearing um and I try to go through it looked like some of those uh segments were pulled out by staff between TAB and council uh there was a couple that I just wanted to make sure and I assume you're probably already doing this but there were two in particular where residents did not seem like they necessarily objected but wanted a conversation about uh sidewalk placement relative to trees um one was at 515 south right and the other was uh on prairie between Brainerd and Loomis and I'm just wondering if um if for those two in particular if you've already maybe had conversations with the residents or if not if we approve those as being part of the program if you could between today and construction maybe reach out specifically to those homeowners to discuss um best placements so that we can try to save those trees director loud yes um I can't speak to if our engineering team has had a detailed conversation on those specific locations I'm just double checking I think the one on prairie was excluded the one on right street is still in but we will definitely um have further conversation with those residents all right thank you and then my last question I think I know the answer but just to confirm um this is kind of piggybacking on on at the budget workshop two totally different programs but at the budget workshop we talked about sidewalk repair this is new sidewalk just wanted to confirm when there's a teardown occurring um and a developers coming in building a new home installing sidewalk separate from what we talked about at the workshop or tonight the developer would still be responsible for paying for the new sidewalk as part of the new construction is that correct that's correct all right thank you okay um councilman white do you want to make a um amendment to your original motion that would exclude this particular address is that what we're looking for here is that enough for you director yes so just um it would be the motion would be to approve the program excluding the portion from Franklin Avenue from Julian Street to Huffman Avenue mayor I would like to amend my motion and approve the side well sidewalk program um with the exception of um the property on Franklin between Julian and Huffman um being exempt Council McKelly concurred we have a motion and a second on the amended motion seeing no further discussion roll call Gibson aye hold to our aye Jane aye Kelly I broom aye I wife aye Wilson all right Worley yes motion passes nine zero thank you thank you thank you I told you we love Naperville I am J1 the public hearing for the reserves of Settle Creek is now open anyone who wishes to speak may come forward seeing no one councilman white might have a motion to close the public hearing mayor move to close the public hearing councilman white or I'm Kelly second Kelly all right we have a motion and a second to close the public hearing all those in favor sign aye aye opposed motion passes nine zero the public hearing is now closed next item J2 Mayor move to pass the ordinance authorizing the execution

Seeing no one, Councilman White might have a motion to close the public hearing.

Mayor, I move to close the public hearing.

Councilman White.

Second Kelly.

All right.

We have a motion and a second to close the public hearing.

All those in favor sign aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Motion passes nine zero.

The public hearing is now closed.

Next item, J two.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance authorizing the execution of the annexation agreement for the reserves of Saddle Creek.

Development 0033-2025.

Second Kelly.

Motion a second.

On J two.

Roll call.

Hold hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Cyed.

I.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, J three.

Mayor move the call.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Sai Ed.

I White.

Aye.

Wilson.

All right.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, J five.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance approving the preliminary final plat of subdivision.

Aye.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, J six.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance approving a variance for the reserves of Saddle Creek.

Council McKelly.

Second Kelly.

Motion a second on J 6.

Roll call.

Cyan.

Aye.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holztower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, J seven.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance granting a deviation from the City of Naperville Design Manual for Public Improvements for the Reserves of Saddle Creek.

Second Kelly.

A motion and a second on J7.

Roll call.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holztower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Cyed.

Aye.

Motion passes 90.

Councilman White, J eight.

Mayor move to receive the staff report and conduct the public hearing to consider the annexation agreement and related ordnance for the property located at 25013 and 2053 West 11th Street for Everly Trace.

Councilman Kelly.

Second Kelly.

Public hearing for Everly Trace is now open.

Speakers get 10 minutes.

There are two speakers.

And the petitioner will get five minutes for rebuttal if necessary.

Good evening, Mayor.

Council.

Uh Russ Whitaker, Rosanov and Whitaker.

Uh, here this evening on behalf of uh JMRV on Naperville LLC as the owner of the property.

Uh just a uh brief presentation.

So uh JMRV is Naperville is the owner of the property, the developer of the property.

Uh they are under contract with MI Homes.

Um, as you uh may know, MI Holmes is a uh national footprint home builder, uh, headquartered here in Naperville with uh office being located at City Gate Center.

Um council recently approved uh project uh northwoods uh of Naperville um off of Warrenville Road for uh MI Homes if you have a long history of building uh building homes in town.

So uh this South Naperville location is uh is uh just another new site for MI to continue uh successful development in the city.

Uh the properties approximately 10 acres located off of 111th Street.

Um notably it is located immediately adjacent to Crone Middle School.

Um it is across the street from the Ashwood Creek Town Homes, um, which are uh ranch town home product uh that is actually rentals uh at the corner of 248 and 111th.

Uh you can see noticeably commissioners park is located um also just to the east of the property.

So while this is uh located in the very southwest section of town, um there's uh some very nice resources in the area that make this a very attractive location for development.

Uh the site is currently located in the county.

Um this is not vacant farmland or this is not vacant wooded property.

Uh this is property that's actively being developed or being used for commercial purposes.

Um the commercial tenant on the property is site one landscape supply.

Um they're business to business operations selling landscape supplies to uh landscape contractors uh for incorporation into uh uh homes or businesses in the area.

Their lease is up and they will be moving out shortly after the beginning of the year.

So the property was available for redevelopment, which is the uh the core of the case before you this evening.

Um this is a depiction of the the site plan, uh a rendered version of the site plan uh of how we proposed to develop the property.

Uh again, 10 acres, it is a total of 68 units.

I would note that we are well under the allowable density in the OI OCI zoning district, which is uh the uh the proposed zoning district for the property.

Uh the development will consist of two different product types.

Uh you can see here is the Charlestown series, uh, which is located along the west and the south property line.

Uh the Charlestown series is um a two-story uh town home product.

Uh it was strategically located along the west and south portions of the property to provide uh a transition from the single family homes adjacent in Ashwood Creek.

Um I would also call out that uh while the OCI's uh zoning district allows a 15-foot rear yard setback.

Um, we have pushed those uh those homes as far as possible uh away from the the West property line, the shared property line with those single family residences.

Uh so uh uh required setback is 15 feet where 36 feet.

Um you can see we've planned um not a required landscape buffer, but we've well exceeded landscape requirements uh with a uh with a significant landscape buffer being planted in the west um and the south portion of the property.

Um I would note that the uh a neighborhood park is located immediately south of the property.

Uh you see ball fields at Crone Middle School located uh immediately east of the property.

Uh the town square series is a three-story townhome product that's sort of strategically located in the center of the site.

Um the the thought process here was that we have two-story townhomes adjacent to residents, um, and then we have the three-story townhomes, which allows us to diversify, reach a different buyer pool, different market prices, um, uh moving further away from the existing single family residence.

Uh the one other thing that I would point out um was sort of a driving source of the development plan here uh is that Cedar Drive exists both north and south of our site.

Um you can just kind of pick up the the stubs for Cedar Drive north and south of our property.

When we began working with the city on uh development proposal for this property, um, Cedar Drive being the continuous through route was uh was a priority for the city.

Um we also looked at um if we were pushing Cedar Drive straight through along Crone Middle School, uh, there would be a long stretch of straight road.

Um when we see that type of design, we see um a lot of we see uh increases in cut through traffic.

We also see increases in speeding.

Uh so we worked extensively with staff.

Uh uh Bill Novak was still here at the time when we were putting this together.

Um we developed this curvilinear layout.

Uh the curvilinear layout is uh is intended to slow traffic that is moving through the subdivision.

We do anticipate that uh the Asherwood Creek subdivision um uh will have a significant number of trips coming through this road, um, ultimately exiting the uh uh exiting to 111th Street.

Uh so we wanted to be very conscientious with the design and make sure that we were uh taking concerted efforts to slow traffic uh through the project.

Uh depiction of the Charleston series uh townhomes.

Um you see uh two-story product, um, very well uh very nicely appointed.

Um there's actually a couple of different floor plans.

Um I would draw your attention to the left of the screen, or I'm sorry, actually the right of the screen.

Uh so the right of the screen is the Danbury 2.

Uh, the Danbury 2 is a master down floor plan.

Um so this is a little bit larger floor plan that allows us to really target that that move down buyer.

If you get into the comprehensive plan, you see that uh really most of the attached product, most of the multifamily housing that is attractive to those moved down buyers is located north of 75th Street.

So here's an opportunity uh to really help diversify product in South Neighborville.

Um and then, of course, I mentioned the the three-story townhome product again helps us to diversify and reach a broader buyer pool even within the subdivision.

Uh so this is the three-story product that uh that we're proposing.

Um you can again see there's a couple of different floor plans, um, the end units and the middle units uh with some varying size on the units.

I would note that the um uh both uh both of the townhome series uh will be constructed of uh of hardy or uh similarly similar masonry type material.

With that high-level overview, I'm happy to answer any additional questions you might have.

Uh we appreciate staff and plan commission's consideration in this.

Um we've been working with staff for a number of months.

We have the positive recommendation from staff.

Uh we have unanimous recommendation from the planning commission, uh, and we would ask for the city council's support this evening.

Thank you.

Councilman White.

Thank you, Mayor.

Good run rundown, uh Mr.

Whitaker.

Uh just clarify the current um property right now is in an unincorporated plain field it would it wouldn't be it wouldn't have a uh municipal designation, it would be unincorporated Will County.

Uh but yes, that is correct, unincorporated Will County.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Council Sayed, we we do have two more speakers uh from the public.

We will recall the um petitioner for a uh rebuttal.

So if they can hold who's the next speaker.

The next speaker is Scott Sloan, followed by Alison Longenbaugh.

Mr.

Sloan.

Next speaker.

Alison Longenba.

Hello, everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for your vote earlier for PCC.

Um I promise to bring to PCC the same open-mindedness that I did sitting on council.

Uh Councilwoman Jane.

I hope you enjoy being liaison to the advisory commission on disabilities, disabilities as much as I did.

I truly loved it.

And that is what brings me here today.

Um, is to talk about my favorite subject, visitability.

Um I talked about it a lot up there.

Um, what you say up there really matters.

People listen.

And in this case, we were lucky that Mr.

Whitaker was one of the people who was listening.

And so he brought me in early on this project with M and I to talk about visitability and to try to tackle that no step entry because that tends to be what is the the sticking point for visitability.

Um so um it's just not as easy as just making a super long front walkway.

Um so they brought me in, and M and I was really they really wanted to fix it.

And so given that I was in early enough in the decisions and in the discussion on it, they were able to maneuver stuff around and they were able to get five visitable units that Danbury that he mentioned.

There are five of those in there, and there are five visitable units in this development.

So five out of sixty-eight, it's not 100%, but I think it's a it's a win, it's a win for visitability, and I'm super excited about that.

And so I wanted to thank him, and I wanted to thank M and I um for for doing that.

Um I'm gonna keep talking about this on PCC.

Um, I'll be in on it earlier in the discussions, which will which will help.

Um I'm realistic.

I know that some developments will never have zero step.

You're just not gonna be able to do it, but please keep talking about it.

Um it's it's really important.

Um see if there's other things you can do.

Ask the HOA to to have a ramp.

Um, like we did um, I asked for West uh West Street Executive Homes and for Charleston Place.

They were able to, they're gonna store a ramp in the HOA to be able to be used for for residents.

So think about other alternatives.

Um at the August 20th building review board, members of the accessible community task force spoke and they said without visitability, it leaves residents quite literally at the doorsteps.

And so I thank Mr.

Whitaker and Mr.

Rosanova and M and I for bringing me in early enough to get this done.

Super important for the disability community.

Um, so don't forget to include them in future discussions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Whitaker, you want to reapproach for questions and rebuttal.

Councilman Sayed.

Thank you, ma'am.

Mr.

Russ, thank you so much for the great presentation.

Uh and last week I was there at the site.

I saw the site, I met with some people there.

And uh, so I've got some questions.

So about the traffic on the main route.

How do you handle that?

I'm sorry, I was moving the screen.

One more time.

So uh uh I was there last week.

I met with some of the residents there.

I met with the attorney who gave me a good presentation.

And uh so on the uh uh, you know, so on the 11th street, how do we manage the traffic that side, you know?

Some some objection have come up on that side, yeah.

Yeah, so um when we start a process like this with staff, um, we we submit for a concept meeting, and that's a very early on discussion um where the city kind of gathers all of the various departments.

We submit a very simple plan, a very simple cover letter, and we have an open discussion dialogue about what the city would be looking for, what preliminary feedback is, what kind of things would be required.

So on this case, um, when we were at that very early stage, we got direction from staff that a traffic study would not be required.

Um so we did not do a full-blown traffic study.

We do that for most developments.

Certainly, whenever we do, whenever we're asked to do a traffic study, we're doing a traffic study.

Um, what we did with this development is we did um we did a trip generation analysis.

Um so the city wasn't looking for us to go perform counts on 111th Street or counts on 248th Street to measure the traffic.

I think the city had some pretty good estimates of what was going on because of development that has happened in the area.

What they asked us to do is to look at how many trips um would be generated from this project and then to consider whether um that then the city could consider whether those trips being generated would be a significant enough impact to uh maybe consider something something broader.

So I'm kind of flipping through stuff here.

Um we I have those trip generation numbers here, I just gotta find it.

So uh for the uh so when we when we do a traffic study, we look at a m and pm peak hours because we know that that's when there's the greatest amount of pressure on the on the adjacent roadways, right?

If it can if it can handle the traffic at 8 a.m.

in the morning, noon or 10 o'clock is not gonna be a problem.

Um so what we found um is that with this development that there would be a total of 30 trips.

That's um seven in and twenty-three out during the weekday morning peak hour.

Um, in the evening, there would be in the evening peak hour, there would be a total of 37 trips.

That's 22 in and 15 out.

And so I think the the conclusion was um given given the development that it exists in this area.

Um, no one's saying that there's not traffic that backs up on 111th associated with the drop-off of Crohn Middle School.

I live on the same block as BB elementary school.

I know I either get out before the traffic starts lining up for BB elementary school or I wait until after it's gone.

There's just when you live proximate to a school, you've sort of adjust some of your daily routine to the intricacies of the operation of the school, right?

And so we we know that this development has very minimal um traffic that's going to be onto those be put onto those roads.

Um it's de minimis in the scope of everything going on, and so I think the uh our development team and I think probably the staff was of the opinion that there was no need for uh for further study of 111th Street or 248th Street.

Okay, thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

Councilman Holzar, thank you, Mayor.

I just wanted to echo uh some of former councilwoman now, Commissioner Longenbaugh's comments.

Um to you, I've said this many times before, and for any other uh developer, developers, developers, attorneys that are in the room.

It really really matters to me when I hear that you took input from council members on any issue.

Um in this case, M and I Holmes did a um great job accommodating as many um of these accessibility concerns as possible on a prior development where your partner was up here a month or so ago.

Um I mentioned how uh how much it meant to me that the uh developer was willing to do improvements consistent with the river walk, even though it meant some more money uh in the development.

Those are things that really helped me get to an S a yes, those are things I remember the next time M and I Holmes is up, we'll remember that.

Um so I just uh I really commend you for doing that.

It's the neighbor of a way, and um I'll be I'll be supporting this.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Mr.

Whitaker, do you have a rebuttal?

I I can I would consider rebutting what Alison had to say, but I figure you know um no, I I appreciate everybody's time and cooperation on this.

Um we're uh we're excited to uh move into final engineering and and get the ball rolling on this.

So I I think thank the council for their consideration this evening.

Thank you.

Councilman White, may have a motion to close the public hearing.

Mayor move to close the public hearing.

Second Kelly, motion and a second to close the public hearing.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye opposed.

Motion passes nine zero.

The public hearing is now closed.

Next item, Jane 9, Councilman White.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance authorizing the execution of the annexation agreement for Everly Trace.

Councilman Kelly, second Kelly.

Motion a second on J 9 roll call.

Wilson?

Aye.

Warley.

Yes, Gibson.

Aye.

Holds hour.

I Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I make room.

I side White.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White.

J 10.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance annexing 25013 and 2053 5 West of 11th Street for Everly Trace.

Second Kelly.

Motion and a second on J 10.

Roll call.

Warley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I broom.

Aye.

Saiyan.

I.

Wait.

I.

Wilson?

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, J 11.

Mayor move to pass the ordinance rezoning 25013 and 2053 5 West 111 Street for Everly Trace to OCI upon annexation.

Second Kelly.

Motion and a second on J 11.

Roll call.

Gibson.

Aye.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I mick Broom.

I cyan.

I White.

I.

Wilson.

All right.

Warley.

Yes.

Motion passes 90.

Councilman White.

Jove.

Mayor move to pass an ordinance approving a preliminary plat of subdivision for it.

Everly trace.

Second Kelly.

A motion and then a second on J 12.

Roll call.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I mick Broom.

I send.

Ike.

White.

I.

Wilson.

I warley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White.

J 13.

I move to pass the ordinance approving a conditional use and a variance for Everly Trace.

Second Kelly.

Motion and a second on J 13.

Roll call.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I McBroom.

Aye.

Cyan.

I White.

Aye.

Wilson.

I warley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Hold tower.

Aye.

Motion passes.

90.

Item L one.

Item L one has two options.

Option A, concur with the petitioner and direct staff to prepare ordinances and an OAA agreement approving the requested entitlements for Dutch Brothers at 1230 South Neighbor Boulevard.

Or option B, deny the requested entitlements for that location.

There is one written comment that was posted to the website.

There are two speakers, the petitioner, Gina Gaiazzo, and then Marilyn Schweitzer.

Go ahead, sir.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Gino Galouza.

I'm counsel for the development the developer here, SDG Marketplace Meadows LLC.

They're the owners of the Marketplace Meadow Shopping Center.

We're here before you for a major change in the PUD governing that center to allow for the subdivision of lot five located therein to allow for the development of a coffee shop building on part of that lot for to be operated as a Dutch Brothers coffee shop.

The building will be approximately 11,000 and 79 square feet.

Um up from the 189,500 square feet.

So it's relatively a small addition of 1100 square feet of that site.

Those plans have met all the city requirements with the exception of two other deviations that we're seeking as part of this plan.

One of them is to reduce the number of parking space spaces currently required by that site by 39 spaces as a result of the site that we're taking to build on.

There's parking spaces currently there, and also a deviation to eliminate the bypass lane in the site plan, which we'll get through shortly.

Um again, the the proper the building being built as uh an image here of that building, it's 1179 square feet.

It's located uh on a 0.86 acre parcel that'll be developed through the subdivision of a larger 1.32 acre site uh where U.S.

bank's currently located.

Moving forward with this project required the developer to get formal written approval from both U.S.

bank because it's they're renting that site from developer and Jewel Asco, another tenant of the developer for that site, both of them are tenants, and they had control rights requiring their approval for this, both have approved uh the move forward for the site.

The parking variants currently um currently the variants of applicable to this site requires 926 parking stalls.

Uh the reduction of 39 stalls would require 887 parking stalls.

Uh we had a traffic study that we submitted to the city uh that was performed by HR Green.

They looked at the different parking needs of the various businesses there and the times at which they need them needed those parking spots, and they determined that uh even at the peak, which they think they determined to be on a Saturday, we'd have an excess of about 251 parking stalls on that site, um, even with the Dutch brothers built built in there.

So we have more than more than adequate parking coverage uh for what we need.

I think the break utilization will only be 70.4 percent of the total stalls that we have available with regard to the bypass lane, as you can see by this uh site plan.

Uh there's about 22 cars located on this uh from a stacking standpoint.

I do want to correct one sentence that I had in my letter that I submitted last week where I'd indicated out of the two bypass two lanes, one of them would be used primarily for mobile order ordering.

I have director of real estate and the person in charge of the traffic control plan for all the Dutch Pro stores here.

They flew in from out of state to be available for questions that may arise because we realized there were some questions about this.

But actually, they use both these lanes for cars that they come in.

But a lot of the people order through mobile apps, so they're directed as to where to where to approach into the building and into the lanes, excuse me.

They have line busters out there that manage the lines quicker.

So as people drive in, they don't want to wait to get to the order window.

They're ordering through people who are called line busters who have iPads, take orders remotely, so the orders are made as they're progressing through the lines.

And those people also bring the drinks out to the people while they're in the cars if they're still in the waiting lane.

The idea there is everybody doesn't have to make it to the window to get out.

So as you notice in the striped lanes on the drawing there, that's um, those are actually just painted stripes.

So while the lanes do merge in, if you have your drink, you can bypass through that escape lane and get out quicker.

This allows for a more efficient and orderly process where they really have short times in line and moves that line along.

It also allows for those traffic control, those line busters, excuse me, to manage that traffic in there.

So if there's an issue, people can be directed around or and get out of there sooner than later.

Um we know one of the main issues, and we've met with, I think my clients have met with many of the council members, have been traffic management system.

I think there have been some issues elsewhere in the city with other locations where something new pops up, it's the honeymoon period, or there's a sales going on, and there's uh a lot of traffic back up to public roads.

Uh, we think this site is actually best suited for this.

This is probably the best site as anywhere out there for something like this because they will never back up into city streets.

There's plenty of parking available, and there's a plan that was submitted to staff here that indicates how traffic will be managed on site.

Uh, Dutch Brothers actually has what they consider a mob squad that comes out when they open the new stores.

These aren't franchised, these are corporate owned.

So they'll send a group of, I think I'm not sure is it five or five, thirty individuals to open a store to deal with training.

Some of those individuals will be in charge of the making sure traffic is managed appropriately.

They've hired a third-party company that hires off-duty police officers to manage the traffic.

So they've worked on them with this traffic plan that staff's already reviewed and approved.

This traffic plan allows for uh stacking on site on site there, um, and the conditions that were in the report to council allows for variations of this traffic management plan should staff feel that necessary even after they open.

You know, obviously they feel like they've had issues at other sites, and they want to keep the ability to actively manage this as the site is open and progressing.

So if they have other issues that they can make some edits on the fly after it's already opened and approved.

We believe, and Dutch Bros.

Is here to ask answer any questions if you will if you like that this management plan will be in place during some honeymoon period.

After that, their plan is to open another 25 stores in the Chicago metropolitan area, six of them within probably a 50-minute drive time from here.

Um several of those are looking at other active locations currently in Naperville.

But the idea in mentioning this is this would be the first site and the site best suited to handle this type of stacking.

But obviously, as they open up other sites in the region, it alleviates the need for, I think what you've seen in other stores where people are coming in from miles and miles away to get a cup of coffee.

Um, that's not what Dutch Broad's plan is.

They don't look to attract more people to a store.

They have a sweet spot of about two million in sales.

They like to see per store.

They want to capture traffic that's existing as a convenience and not have new traffic generated to this site.

Um, and they believe the traffic plan here works well.

Um, just for explanation, on that drawing, every TC will be a traffic control officer, an off-duty police officer with a specific plan as to how to manage traffic.

They'll all have walkie talkies, they're gonna communicate with one another, they're gonna uh have the traffic queue up to the that queuing space up near TC1 and TC2 to make sure there's not cars blocking entrances for the US bank.

Again, U.S.

bank is a tenant.

Um, if there's issues with them, they're gonna call the landlord.

We're gonna have to have lease issues then.

There are conditions in these leases that control the management and operations on that parking in that parking lot.

The line busters are identified with the LB numbers.

Those remain even past the honeymoon.

That's just part of normal operating procedure for them.

You may have seen them at some other stores personally.

When I go to Chick-fil-A or somewhere else, they have these line busters.

I even see them at some portillos where they come out, take your order early on, and make sure you move through the line quickly.

Um the traffic control individuals will be here as long as necessary.

I asked what that meant, what is necessary mean, and from their standpoint, necessary is whenever traffic backs up offs off of that particular site pad that you see in white there.

So if, for example, if the traffic dies down and they're no longer available after a few months, they'll bring them back if it becomes an issue again.

They have signed a contract, a 12-month-month agreement that they would extend with this third-party traffic control company.

Um part of the traffic management plan will identify signage.

Um, again, I know there's been some questions about the flow of traffic coming off the site.

There's been some council members having some ideas on how traffic might flow off the site more efficiently.

I think there's some concern about traffic getting diverted over to market as it comes off versus going back to Naper Boulevard.

My contention is I understand this to be a two-step process.

We're here today to get a thumbs up or a thumbs down on the project generally, and understand thereafter if it's a thumbs up, and we hope it would be that city attorney and staff would work on an operate an owner's acknowledgement agreement, which would cover all the terms and conditions.

They'd come back with an ordinance with those terms and conditions.

You would review those again to make sure they addressed all your concerns, including concerns that you discussed with some of the owners that we don't have any objections with, provided staff's in agreement, and we could incorporate those into that final agreement.

Again, even if we pass that agreement at the next meeting that this comes before you in November, staff retains the right under that agreement that if there are issues, they'll work with our traffic management team to resolve those issues.

That's consistent in alignment with our desire also.

As landlord, we don't want to upset the other 189,000 square feet of tenant out there for one 1100 square foot tenant.

And Dutch Bros has a good question.

I'm sorry.

Your time is up.

Yeah, 10 minutes.

Thank you.

We have another public speaker.

Maryland Schweiter.

Okay, good evening.

Uh Mayor Lyn Schweitzer.

And my sense from reading council's QA and staff's response to that is that the general will of council is to table this item tonight.

If someone's curious as to why it was even brought forth to this evening's agenda.

I don't believe city council meetings should be used as a test ground.

If council has serious concerns about a proposal that have not been addressed during the proposal's initial review, then but the public should be made aware of those concerns rather than being presented with two options.

Council can't clearly support or oppose.

But based on staff's information for this development, it seems much more thought through in terms of parking, customer queuing, and traffic than, for example, Seven Brew, the Dunkin' Go on 59 or Freddy's, which is now closed.

From that standpoint, and from the standpoint of this development, um, has considered for safety measures and pedestrian access.

I support the development.

Traffic rarely seems to have stopped staff, the PCC or council before in approving a development, even when traffic studies show an intersection will be downgraded to an F in five years, or when there have been strong community objections.

So I'm not sure why the change of heart.

Arguments like Naperville already has a ton of a certain types of business or a business model will attract people from too far away, fall flat, and seem highly prejudicial.

Particularly given the sort of promotion and pride Naperville takes in this downtown.

I believe our planning metrics and our municipal code have not been able to keep up with the post-pandemic surge of people not wishing to get out of their vehicles, people not wishing to man mingle with strangers, and the difficulties in squeezing new developments into tightly built and congested environment.

In the past, I've argued for planning that would improve walkability and more robust code for pedestrian access and safety.

Making it easier and safer for people to travel without the need of high-speed vehicles would reduce congestion, but that doesn't seem to be the Naperville way.

So if this development is tabled or turned down tonight, please be clear as to the reasons and what measures staff should take to provide more certainty for developers in the space and in Naperville overall.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Caluso, you want to reapproach for rebuttal?

Yes.

And questions?

Just questions, please.

Councilman Holzar.

Okay, thank you, Mayor.

It's actually more of a comment.

I put this in the the question and answer for those in the audience who who don't know this.

We have the ability to submit written questions to staff before meetings.

And my question was as follows the traffic management plan included in the agenda item is the original plan and does not reflect council feedback provided to the petitioner.

Has a revised plan been submitted for staff review?

Um staff's answer is that petitioner has considered additional changes but has not submitted a revised plan.

Um and that if a plan is submitted to staff, it would take two weeks to review uh and provide a recommendation to council for consideration.

Um, Marilyn, I definitely hear your comments, not just from this meeting, um, but from meetings before the public should know what it is what that we're voting for.

Um, a positive in this situation is that the developer has um met with council members who have had various suggestions um on this, but I agree with you.

I do think that that the public has a right to know um what those are uh before there's a vote.

Um my comments earlier to Mr.

Whitaker about his development apply to yours as well.

It really does matter to me that those make it into a proposal we see at council before I would uh vote for it.

Um so I anticipate later on, after everyone's had their opportunity for comments that I would um request to table this item until staff has had a chance to review the the proposed changes uh taking into account council feedback.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Other questions from council, Councilman White?

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

Um I guess my question for you would be and I I met with some of your members of your team.

Um I can I like the adjustments you all have made just from from talking to me.

It seems like they're be pretty effective.

Um little concerned about traffic coming in off of market avenue.

I think you addressed that somewhat.

I guess my you mentioned that you were gonna my one concern you'd mentioned that you were going to hire off-duty police officers as part of the efficiency team as I understand.

We're hiring a third-party company that hires off-duty police officers.

All right.

Uh a question for Chief Aries.

Uh, can you kind of give me a roundabout figure uh for what an off-duty police officer would normally make doing something like this?

Chief Aries.

Yeah.

Speaking of use PAMs.

Using our rate, it would be around $80 an hour for a Naperville police officer to do that, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be hiring Naperville police officers, but for us to be around $80 an hour.

Okay.

Um I asked a question.

My my dad was a police officer and did a lot of you know duty kind of stuff, and they they paid pretty well.

So I guess my question comes to this.

I know you guys are selling a lot of coffee, but it seems like a whole lot of overhead for this to be a profitable uh venture for you all to bring in this team, higher off-duty and all that.

I mean, I appreciate it, but um I'm gonna I'm would be a little concerned is is this something that's sustainable at what I would anticipate would be pretty expensive to bring in the team.

Uh you can comment on that.

If I could turn it over to Alex, Alex was is with Dutch Brothers.

He means he's with the uh uh traffic management department, and he does this at their other 900 stores, so I'm gonna let him communic communicate about that.

Hi, Kyle Dallas.

I'm the site and traffic plan administrator for Dutch Bros.

Uh, in regard to your question with costs, uh, even the price proposed, it varies per jurisdiction.

Uh our company that we have a contract with, they're called Badge Hire.

They are the company that reaches out to the jurisdictional police, uh, whether it's sheriffs, state or city police to uh hire said off-duty officers.

That rate uh by comparison to other markets is uh about average, if not maybe just a little bit lower.

Uh that rate's not negotiated by a Dutch Bros.

That the rate is negotiated by our third-party contractor.

Okay, so uh, I guess a follow-up would if if this goes for maybe uh let's just say it goes for a year.

I don't know, Will.

I mean, yet you'll need to have this type of um traffic control.

It it's in your uh opinion of or I shouldn't say your opinion, but assuming you've done some analysis here, it still becomes a pretty profitable thing for you all.

I mean it's a good business decision for you.

Of course, yes.

And we've had long-term coverage at shops, it's as needed.

We want to be great stewards of our traffic, make sure that we're not causing a disruption to neighboring businesses or the community, and so we do find it necessary in uh at several shops we've had it ongoing for months.

Okay, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Councilwoman Gibson.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

I um I see in your traffic study, Dutch Bros averages about 45 seconds per car at the window.

Is that about the rate that cars move?

Yes.

Okay, so I you know, I met at the site with property owners.

We spent a lot of time talking about queuing up.

Looking at this slide, the red line is how we expect cars to be leaving Dutch Bros, right?

So we can be expecting a car every 45 seconds taking that route.

Well, again, this is the route we had proposed when we brought went to PCZ.

We had, you know, my client had met some council members.

They'd like to implement changes they heard they want to be known as hearing and listening and and implementing changes, council would like to see like some of them have been questioned a sign about entering at the neighbor boulevard.

Um the only reason we didn't go back, I think the um one of the councilman's statement is we had heard if we go back, it just delays things.

So we had hoped, given that it's meaning meaning if we went back to staff with those with those edits that were discussed in the field, we'd have to postpone today's meeting and come back in November.

So what we were hoping, since this is really a two-step process as it is, right?

That we are going to implement or discuss with staff those changes, those can make it to an agreement that you get you all vote on at your next meeting.

Currently, as proposed, yes, it adds it exiting on Market Avenue.

However, once the traffic control officers are there, and obviously staff retains the right during the process to modify the plan if they think it's causing other issues.

You know, we want this to be an organic process.

We're going to we could identify and use the traffic control officers, peel that traffic back off to I believe it's the South towards Napor Boulevard or toward towards 75th.

I I'd just like to uh present myself as well.

Uh Louis Schreiber Shore Development Group, founding partner of Shorewood Development Group who redeveloped the overall shopping center, Market Meadows.

I'm also a proud uh business owner in Naperville, uh personally with the big blue swim school that sits in here as well.

Um there's a few clarifications, and there's there's an understandable confusion here on what this traffic management plan is.

This traffic management plan is uh is a very rigid plan to this is how we're gonna provide for it.

And it and and at that time, because of what happened further north of here, um, you know, we met with all the council council members, and what we're trying to show here, and it's not changing our traffic management plan, but it's giving options.

This is going to be an organic issue, this traffic.

And what we see north of here, you have one ingress egress situation with 23 parkings on parking spots on it and no other spots that go.

What we tried to present here after meeting with the council members, that's further on on our slides, are how do we solve if this happens or if that happens, or if something else happens.

And what we're trying to present in this that caused the confusion is that we do have three major access points into this shopping center.

One on market meadow, which I would say that was say the third kind of the least desirable one to get in and out of.

Um the most desirable one is off neighbor, um, obviously with a with a street with a with a lighted intersection.

And then if you do want to go uh west on 75th, you can get out through 75th.

So what we're trying to do here is while it created confusion, we want to show staff that put in, you know, put in their conditions that if something happens, how do we handle it so we don't have a problem?

And what we've shown in these amendments of these, and what we've shown in these amendments is that we do have multiple solutions to issues and problems that do come up within the shopping center.

Um we had that we didn't just buy this shopping center, we bought it in COVID uh when it was 60, 70 percent vacant, and we have now developed it to capacity.

Um I think we have one one two thousand square foot spot turning over.

Um, and it's working at its peak in its efficiency, which gave us as a landlord that is very conscious of of how everything flows, it gave us the confidence to do this, as well as most importantly, it gave the confidence to Joule and US bank here that you know there is a plan in place.

We all know that a plan never goes to plan, and what happens if that if if and when it doesn't go to plan, what are the solutions?

And that's what we've provided here that has caused confusion and a potential delay in this um this vote.

Councilwoman Gibson, floor is still yours.

Um yeah, thank you.

Um I'm not sure about this two-step process.

I I'm partial to agree with Marilyn that when something comes before us, we want to see the details if we're gonna be voting on it.

So I would definitely not be in favor of option A at this point, leaning towards B or Councilman Holzhauer's suggestion to table.

Um I heard a lot there.

I'm still wondering how cars coming out at every 45 seconds, get out of your shopping center safely without backing up Market Avenue, potentially neighbor boulevard, which is a four-way stop there, um, or cutting across over there on the I guess it would be west side across jewel where the pedestrians are.

I've seen a lot of attention paid to how cars will be queued up.

Um, but how cars get back to, as you said, the most desirable entrance exit, which is the stop sign, or even 75th Street up there on the south.

Um I'm still just not convinced this can come in without jeopardizing safety of pedestrians or our traffic pattern on market and neighbor.

Councilman Sayed.

Thank you, Mayor.

So I agree with most of my colleagues, council members.

I also I agree with Merilyn what she spoke about traffic.

I was there with your team members a couple of weeks ago.

And specifically, I requested that in the evening we'll meet at around 4 30.

And I showed them the traffic, how it was piling up on Nibelville Boulevard, you know.

Going towards uh 75th Street, it was jam pack.

A lot of traffic issues.

I showed them.

I did not take a picture, but I showed them, you know.

So during that time, it was crazy, I can say it was not easy for uh cars to move with the signal and all those things.

So when I saw this uh plan and all those things, it looks good on this screen, and when you talk, it looks good, but practically challenges are there.

I feel you know, we need to think about those things and then move forward.

Yeah, thank you.

Councilman White, follow up.

Yeah, just a uh follow-up as well.

Um there's another entrance um exit entrance.

Um wanting to know if you considered um there's a road that runs behind those buildings.

Um kind of where you would access the uh the storage facility.

Correct.

Uh do you anticipate people using that to kind of short short the line or whatever?

Because it's uh I don't see logically or time saving the ability to do that and how that solves.

I the the direct answer is no.

I don't see how that would be used as any even perceived benefit to get where you need to go quicker, smoother, less tra less.

Okay, so it let's say, for example, someone does come down that road.

I've been down that road.

Yeah.

Um, how do they get into the queue?

From that road?

Yeah, if they were to do it.

Would they be coming from the north or the south?

They'll be coming from the are they exiting out the backside of Jewel?

Yeah, they're on the backside of Joule.

Okay.

Well, I guess at order to enter the back side, if if you're exiting that jewel, you would be entering from 70.

You you would essentially either be entering from Naper or 75th out in front of it.

I'm actually thinking you're coming in from Hobson in the U.S.

You can't get in from Hobson's from there.

If you're on Hobson, you can get to market in from market, you can get into that street that goes behind.

Is that okay?

Yeah, yes, but then you'd have to, I guess go all the way around the back, come out and then go through it.

There is a potential for that.

I think it I think backing up for a second, and maybe me answering this in a different way is you know, Jewel's been here for 50 plus years, I believe.

Um the shopping center has been there.

The traffic patterns are are pretty firm and set in place.

And those traffic patterns, if that was an issue or if it was being used for that, we would have seen it with the McDonald's, who's been open and operating very successfully at high capacity for a very long time.

And then most recently for the Chipotle drive-through as well.

And as owner and observer of that, as both the shopping center owner and the big blue who you know cares, there's kids and stuff there.

We do not personally observe that on a daily basis.

Yeah, I I don't well, I don't uh I respectfully kind of disagree with you in that um McDonald's.

I could I I don't compare Nick McDonald's to what this potentially could be.

I'm thinking I'm thinking seven brew type traffic, and if we're getting if if this place is experiencing that, I would think residents are going to be looking for ways to kind of circumvent some of the the routes.

I I don't know.

Right now, I I do agree with you that it's not being used right now.

No, you don't see that many people on that road.

I think once this is open, it could open that uh open that up.

So I don't know, maybe something to consider, maybe some signage to discourage drivers from going out the back side of uh of the road.

Just the thought.

Right.

Well, from that from that point of view, I I agree with that.

If that becomes a problem, it can be governed as the shopping center owner is you know, it's the delivery trucks only and storage only back there.

Um there is solutions to that.

Okay.

Um and it it is being monitored by camera.

You know, we do have cameras on both entrances.

Um, so if that does become an issue, that can be easily solved with signage and you and by enforcement by private enforcement.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Wilson.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um I I guess I kind of echoing some of the comments made by Marilyn that it um and and I know you've made previous comments about issues with um parking and such at other at different locations, but um just from my perspective as someone who's like I'd give blood at the diversity blood sign or sorry, I'm looking at the map here, uh, go to the jewel and then come back down to 75th to go west, I could see people wanting to exit that way if you're if you're going that way, obviously.

Um I guess to me that this is more of a comment, really, it's not really a question, but uh I I guess part of the distinction to me from Seven Brew or I had previous complaints about a development that was further north with regard to traffic, is that um one the jewel parking lot is significantly bigger if people need to pull over and stop or whatever.

Um there are more entries and exit points that that are available.

Um aside from the fact that you know you've gotten sign-off from Joule and the US and the US bank.

Um so I don't know, these are just a few of my thoughts, comments, just it with again with regard to traffic, it just seems more um that I guess that there's a better plan and there's more opportunities for exiting um to to prevent cars from being backed up.

So that's just my comments.

Thank you.

Councilman McBroom.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh so uh question, and then I'll just make some comments.

Um, I think there's for me and and everyone up there, there's quite a bit of risk aversion um because of a recent experience with with Seven Brew, which was uh a disaster, and um cities had to work with them and I think it's improved.

Um so I guess the first thing I I if you could if you're able to separate yourself from some Seven Brew, they're different companies.

I'm not asking you to bad mouth Seven Brew, but um as far as scale and and your experience your expertise and how long you've been doing this and and the and I know you're a publicly traded company, right?

So if you could just kind of maybe tell us what what you you do that some of the mistakes that Seven Brew made that you don't or have you.

Yeah, uh of course.

My name's Cody Herbster, I'm the director of real estate for for Dutch Bros.

Um I don't want to talk poorly about our competition, but um to answer your question, we are publicly traded.

Um we are corporately run and managed, so we're not a franchise model, um, which is a major differentiator.

I think another thing to consider here is uh we have a walk-up model as well, and we have an order ahead app, which greatly reduces um the amount of queuing that we have.

It gives pedestrians options, it gives vehicular options to park, retrieve your order from the walk-up window, and then not even enter the queue and cause the backup issues that you've seen in other parts of the city.

We were founded in 1992 in the Northwest.

We have 1,082 stores as of today and continuing to grow.

And this is something that we're very pragmatic about is safety of not only our customers but surrounding businesses, traffic patterns, pedestrians, etc.

So a lot of thought and time and resources go into this when when we're when we're choosing locations.

I think the other thing that's gonna differentiate us from our competition is that our rollout strategy in Chicago in the Chicago Metro Chicago land itself.

We plan to have 25 to 30 stores open next year.

So we're not wanting to be a destination.

Will there be a honeymoon period?

Will people be excited about it?

Absolutely.

Yeah, we we expect that, which is why we put these these types of things in place.

But at the end of the day, we we we sell coffee and drinks, and we are a convenience-based model, and our model is not to draw from 20 30 miles.

We want to draw local community and and local community, I mean a two-mile radius.

We're actively looking at three other locations in Naperville alone right now to hedge this because we understand the first one is going to be busy, which is why we put all this in place.

Um but our goal is to have five to six locations in Naperville alone in the near future, versus having one stand for a year that's drawing from 20 to 30 miles away.

I hope that answers your question.

Thank you.

That's very good.

So yeah, this this vote, and I maybe we may not even vote on it tonight.

Um for me is one of the harder votes uh because I don't know what the right thing to do is.

And a lot of it has to do with just the fear of the unknown and and the fear of what we just saw with Seven Brew location.

Um, I'm glad that uh Dutch Bros is here.

I don't think he came to the uh PCC meeting uh or was there a representative there.

Um I feel like he should have came, we should have heard from you earlier, but I'm glad you're here, and this has been uh good.

Um, if we did vote tonight, I I think I I think I would lean towards A and approving, um, even though I have a lot of concerns and um you know I just I would have a hard time um telling a business owner they can't approve the property.

Uh I do think it's it's different in a lot of ways from Seven Brew.

Um I think the stacking is going to be on private property.

Um and you have your tenants who are okay with it.

So you know, some of these issues that staff has brought up or you know, this two-step process.

Um, you know, I I guess I would be kind of relieved if we you know we we hear from you tonight, now we have a little more time, um, and then and just do it all in one vote.

Uh hopefully it wouldn't have to be multiple meetings.

Maybe maybe we could do it in our next regular meeting.

Um but uh so yeah, coming in here uh on the fence, not not sure you know what the right decision is.

Um, but uh I I think I would lean towards um you know supporting a new business in town, um, supporting a uh a property owner owner uh being able to develop the property as long as we can iron out um any of these concerns that's that staff has and um just kind of tighten it up a little bit.

So that's yeah, that's kind of my position.

So thank you.

Councilman Kelly.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, I'll echo some of those concerns.

I do think it's a difficult decision to be honest, um, based on what we've seen, and based on just this one site on its own without considering seven brew or anything else.

It's a busy um intersection, a busy shopping center, and this would make it much busier, and and that's a concern.

I think the way I'm looking at it is sort of it's a deviation to the PUD, and I'm trying to look at it as if we were approving the PUD in the first instance, would this make sense as part of it?

And I I'm not sure, to be honest with you.

Um, and it sounds like we don't need to give a final, I don't think from from listening to the council, I don't think we need a final decision tonight, which is good.

Um the two specific questions I have one would be for staff uh and the other for the petitioner, or maybe maybe both to the petitioner to some degree.

Um, and I've asked this before, I think, and I'm still struggling with uh the conditions which we've heard about and staff having the ability to rectify the situation if it gets to a place that we're not happy with.

Um, and I guess I'm still not really there on feeling comfortable with what that looks like.

There just hasn't been that much we can do, and and what staff and the petitioner have told me as well, that's because we didn't have appropriate conditions in place, and here we will have appropriate conditions in place.

Um, but I'm still struggling to hear and and feel comfortable with the specifics of that, what that really looks like in practice, even more so than on paper.

Um, if things go bad and it's just a mess, and and everybody agrees it's a mess.

What is the city going to be able to do?

Can city staff go out and say, hey, this is too much.

Can we shut it down temporarily for a day, a week, or I don't know how long for how whatever staff thinks might be necessary.

What I think I've seen in the written conditions I saw from our city legal department is that ultimately the city could revoke the deviation.

With and I've said before, to me, that feels like the nuclear option where a revocation of the of the deviation is essentially shutting the store down.

And to me, that's not really a very good option to have council approve something, you build it out, start a business, and then staff and council says, guess what, it's all going away.

That doesn't seem fair to the petitioner.

It also doesn't seem realistic to me that that staff or council would ever really recommend doing that.

It just is so drastic.

And so I'm trying to figure out what is an intermere intermediary action that we could take that would be realistic that we could use if needed.

Um so and and I don't I don't know if there's the answer to that tonight, but if it comes back.

Deputy laugh, do you want to respond?

Sure, thank you.

Um, so we I I will say that the ordinance or the conditions that are written in the memo are still in draft form.

So we do plan if the council directs us to prepare an ordinance, we will work with legal to refine them and make sure that they're addressing the concerns that are raised.

Um I do believe that the conditions, at least in their draft form, they give staff the leverage that we need to require the um the property owner and the um Dutch Grows owner to work with us to resolve any issues that we see at the site.

Um generally we find that people are willing to work with us, um, and and it's sort of set up as like a progressive thing where if if we don't get the cooperation, then we do have the ability to at least start with citations and daily fines, which can at least add up to you know some some financial impact.

But I do believe that with all the conditions that we've written between requiring um you know people on site to help with traffic flow, um, requiring them to change some of their operations, whether that's you know, time of business or how they're running people through the drive-thru.

You know, they talked a lot about like the pre-ordering, um, all that stuff could come into play that we would work with them to determine a solution to mitigate it.

And again, um, if that doesn't work, for sure we can use citations and daily fines, and we can talk to legal um if this comes back for final approval, if there's a more progressive step that can be taken and what that looks like.

But I feel like having something in there again, as opposed to Seven Brew, I do think that we've made um positive steps with Seven Brew just by asking them to work with us.

This is actually in written form where they're saying where we're saying you have to work with us to fix this.

Okay, so I'll be very curious to see the the future draft of the written form of those conditions, and that will be impactful for me.

Um, and then a logistical question, probably more for the petitioner.

I don't know if you can flip slides there, but the slide where you had the um colored lines and arrows that kind of showed the traffic flow.

This one.

Uh no, that not that one.

Here's one that had um yeah, uh you just so I had that one work.

Um, so my my question there that I've always struggled with is and I think there might have been a different one where you had a sign at that uh north corner at market, right?

Use next entrance ahead.

Um I like that concept.

I've I've struggled and I'm wondering how that could be enforced and maybe enforced isn't quite the right word, but practically speaking, you're not gonna know if a car coming from the north on Naper is going to Joule or Dutch Bros or or some other tenant, right?

Um, and it and what we see in a lot of developments is traffic is like water right, will find the path the least resistance.

So I just struggle to think that cars coming from the north on Naper are really gonna pass by market that they can turn into quickly and easily and instead go down to the light at the entrance to the shopping center.

Um, and if they do come in at market and then take the left into the shopping center, I I have this continuing concern of how that's gonna work as they assumedly drive past parallel to the jewel entrances, and it just feels like a lot of conflict points there with people from the jewel parking going into the store and then a line of cars coming from the north across the front.

Um so I don't know if you have thoughts on that or if there's a way to redirect those people not kind of southwest towards the red line and back to the front of the queue, or I guess how how are you gonna try to handle those people coming from the north so that we don't have conflict with dual shoppers.

Yeah, so the goal is to to have that sign, and you know, we we have on grand opening weekends more than 50 employees at these shops that are that are directing traffic.

Um, some on our site that are that are Dutch Froze employees, others obviously that we're hiring.

Um, when it when it comes to the egress portion of this, I I don't know that this does a great job of showing it, you know.

And and we spoke to multiple council members, and that was a major concern.

You know, I I think one of the one of the things that we should have done is shown all the egress points versus just showing hey that everybody's gonna go to market.

But that's that's not what we what we want.

And quite honestly, we can't control where people are are leaving and exiting to.

They they may be coming to get a coffee and going to the jewel parking lot and shopping for groceries.

Others may be going to 75th to go west, others may go back out to Napar and and go whichever direction they may.

You know, what we can do and what we've you know, kind of told everyone up here, um, all the council members and the mayor is that we will we will have traffic mitigation on site if it is a problem, and that is it definitely.

So that is one thing that we've done across other locations that are high volume locations, Southern California, Phoenix, etc.

Kyle can speak to that.

I'll give you a cell phone number.

You can call them if there's a problem.

Um, however, you know, I I know that Kyle's dealt with municipalities across the country for multiple multiple months if it if it's necessary to make sure that the safety of pedestrians, vehicular safety, and traffic management is in place as long as it's necessary.

All right, no, I appreciate that.

And I appreciate you being here.

I I'm I'm not there yet.

I'm I'll keep an open mind.

I want to see what these conditions look like.

So I might have said, but I'm I'm not ready for option A, certainly tonight.

And I I remain a little skeptical, but happy to see what comes over the next few weeks if that's the way the council goes.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Jane.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

Um I want to thank you for um being open to dialogue around this because I do echo many of what my council members stated about some of the hesitation and concern, primarily around safety and traffic flow, and also considering the target population that will be coming here.

I think that's on my mind in terms of the types of drivers not trying to generalize, but you know, maybe distracted and the type of population that might be entering this area.

I think the struggle for me is not seeing our feedback reflected in some of these slides.

So I'm not I'm not sure what was orally shared with us on our one-on-one meetings versus what we're seeing here versus what staff has seen and approved.

And for me, there's there's some confusion around that.

And so I seek maybe some clarity on what this two-step process is, which I believe maybe um council member uh Kelly was trying to ask more about, but that for me is where my confusion is.

I'm not really sure what exactly I'm approving and then what then those next steps would be.

So I have hesitation in having good conscience in terms in terms of what I'm saying yes to.

If I can add some clarity to that, is I understand this was the drawing the staff approved and that went through P PZC also.

Um the meetings with individual council members talked about other options, you know, the what ifs that are out there.

This is kind of like me wanting to remodel my house, right?

The what ifs cause the concerns.

There's too many options.

That's what's great about this site that we have a lot of options.

So if there's a problem, it's not like the seven brews location where you have no options, you have no solution.

People are backing up the city streets, and you're asking them to, you know, cut different promotions or what have you.

This site is perfect because it has a lot of options.

Obviously, it has parking further to the left off screen here, which is why the we had this other drawing to show some of the other uh potential avenues for traffic, you know, so it goes off.

So there's a lot of options here, which is why I think staff had wanted to have in the conditions the right to work with us if there's an issue here that we're not crystal balling, right?

This site luckily gives us that opportunity to address them on site.

And I think those options are causing confusion.

It's like when I'm remodeling my house, my wife and I are looking at all the various tiles and color samples, and we're like, oh my god, we can't get this done.

But and I'm sure M and I Homes has less options on those on those homes they built.

But the options here is I think the benefit to this site and why you're not going to have the same issues you're having in other locations.

We have the flexibility.

Again, my client owns the whole property.

The eight hundred eighty-nine thousand five hundred square feet that are leased out to third parties already.

We're not going to risk those for an 1,100 square foot coffee shop.

We're going to make sure this works.

We're financial incentive to make sure it works.

We own the shopping center.

Those tenants will call us if it doesn't work.

And we're comfortable with having conditions written by staff and the attorney that come back before you for approval before you vote.

As I understood it, and I apologize if I'm confused if I'm confused, but I understood it that today was going to be a direction with where you all say, hey, we get it, we have some concerns potentially.

Staff go back and write up the conditions, write up the ordinance, bring them back to this body to look at, and hopefully all those concerns are addressed.

And then we'll have another vote in I don't know if it's in November, I don't want to speak for you or December, when that vote would be, that you all would approve then with all the finality of all those ideas in there.

We don't want to bring those back without staff having gone through it, which would have delayed today's meeting because again, it would have just delayed this meeting.

Staff would have need a couple weeks to run through that.

We think we have that time period now following this meeting to make to ensure that those are written into the ordinance to ensure that those conditions are written in there so that you can take advantage of the other options that are available for this site that aren't available at Seven Bruce.

I mean, if you look at this site with an exit at 75 with an intersection, stoplight, stop light, excuse me, intersection, traffic controlled intersection.

You have another inner stoplight right there at the main entrance where you see those larger red arrows.

I know market doesn't have one, but we have three entrances in here with stoplights.

You don't have that in any other site out there.

And if and obviously, this is just a retail food, you know, coffee.

That's what we're approving here.

And I think we're all concerned about the adverse impacts of one facility that doesn't operate the stores the same as Dutch Bruce, uh, that doesn't have the same attributes and the physical site that's going to be able to address these items.

So what I would hope coming out of here today is that you all authorize staff to move forward with drafting an ordinance, drafting a uh the conditions in that ordinance, and coming up with the owner's acknowledgement agreement, which they're planning on doing.

That was I saw that in the staff agreement that would cover what happens down the road if we didn't crystal ball some issue and they want to change some of that traffic pattern to uh address an issue.

Um so I think you'll you're gonna have you're gonna be able to work with us to get that done through that agreement.

So again, if we move forward today, we authorize staff to move forward with that.

We can integrate all those concerns.

If you guys have any concerns, you can talk to staff directly about those concerns to ensure that they're in the draft, then that draft comes back forward.

We can have another discussion about it and vote on it, hopefully approve it then.

What I'm trying to avoid is a third meeting because we're getting into winter, we're getting into a period where Jewel doesn't want to have construction in the parking lot because you get into their their Christmas season, right after Thanksgiving.

So I'm trying to avoid having a third meeting and trying to limit it to two while addressing all of your concerns.

Councilwoman Jane, you still have any other um just one question for our city manager.

Um is the other option what council member um Holtzhouse are presented as tabling it, and then it would go back to staff for reconsideration before coming back to us.

Would that be the process?

Mr.

Krieger.

Um yes, that would be the process.

Um if there were a change to the traffic management plan, um, we would need a full two weeks to uh um review the material to come up with the recommendation.

Okay.

Okay.

I I think one of the reasons that we're looking at this so seriously tonight is um quite frankly, every one of us has researched your company and seen some of the stories about locations that you've had across the country that have had significant traffic issues and in some cases fights with the city and store closures.

So this isn't necessarily about just your competitor up the street on the north side of Naperville.

This is about Dutch Bros.

This is about you.

So when we have a lot of questions and we are considering doing something in our city that we've never done before, and that would be remote controlled corraled parking as a cue for a drive-thru, which is gonna require all sorts of manpower and dedication and additional resources.

Um that's why we're vetting this so hard, because we don't want to have a significant issue on an area that is one of our north-south arterials in our community.

It's extremely important to us to maintain those traffic flows.

One thing that I want to bring up is on my on-site visit, there was a statement made by you that you were going to be doing simultaneous openings to alleviate any sort of significant honeymoon period, like a store in Naperville is experiencing right now when they were the only one that opened and people were coming from all over the place.

Mr.

Galuso contradicted that in his testimony tonight, saying that there would be a honeymoon period and that stores would be following at some time in the future.

So that is a significant change in what we discussed in the parking lot.

So could you address that, please?

Sure.

I'm happy to.

Thank you for bringing it up.

So right now the plan is to open eight to twelve shops in Q2 of next year in Chicagoland, 12 to 15 in Q3 and in Q4.

So the goal for us is to have 35 plus openings next year, and that's in Greater Chicago land, Northwest Indiana.

So we're not putting pressure on one single location.

That is our goal, that is our model, and that's how we've we've essentially done our layout.

So there's not going to be simultaneous openings like we talked about in the parking lot.

Although there definitely will be.

Yeah, yeah.

And simultaneous means at the same time.

So to clarify, this would be the first one in the Chicagoland market.

Nope.

Okay, so explain to me how this is going to work.

Because it simultaneously means you're you're opening multiple stores at the same time, and we're not going to have destination shoppers coming to Naperville from out of town to wait in line for coffee for an hour.

That's correct.

Yeah, so simultaneous same day.

Are they going to be the same day?

Maybe.

Right now, when we're planning eight to twelve openings in Q2, that's probably three or four a month.

And those are going to be throughout the city.

With the schedule that this is on right now, this will not be the first in Chicagoland.

So we don't expect there to be that you know 30 mile drive to Naperville.

But the end goal is to make sure that we are spreading our stores throughout Chicagoland so that no one shop is overrun, and we're not bringing that traffic in from miles and miles and miles away.

Councilman White.

Well, thank you, Mayor.

As been stated up here, I think one of our no our big concern is what's happened up uh north at the other at your competitors.

I think the frankly, I think the big advantage we that we do have here is that we can learn from that experience.

Um I so what you have right now is although it's not perfect, it needs some work, but it's way ahead of where the other places and just based off of the layout.

So I I think you have a lot of potential um to to make this work.

Uh I would again let's get uh things approved by um uh you know, go through the staff process ensuring that it's incorporating some of the council's concerns.

Um, but I I think you've got a good uh an opportunity because it's it's if we compare it to the other place, it's this this much more depth in here to alleviate the traffic concerns, isn't but let's make sure that we're addressing those council concerns as been stated up here already to make this work.

Councilman Holzaro, is there a follow-up?

Yes, thank you, Mayor.

Um, first, just as a follow-up to my colleague, Councilman Kelly's comment.

Um, he had mentioned that if there were violations of what was promised to us on the dais about traffic control and things like that, that it would be a step we'd be unlikely to take that we would shut down the store for the record.

I would have no problem doing that.

So if if you promise to us that you're gonna do something and don't follow through, expect that to be the remedy that I would suggest.

Um, and similarly, if we're talking about fines, Ms.

Lap, I would hope that those fines are substantial enough that they're not token $1,000 fines, but 10, 50, 100,000 fines to make sure we get compliance.

Um I will say also it's not really our job to stand up here, sit up here and um judge presentation skills.

However, I would say that this is uh fairly disappointing from my perspective.

Um I'm not sure where council got the idea that this was somehow a two-step procedure with multiple votes, a simple review of any prior city council meeting, our municipal code, which is your job to know these things as an attorney would have revealed that that is not even close to the procedure we follow in the city of Naperville.

This is the best city in America to raise a family, actually typically rated the best city in America, and this is honestly far below the presentations we normally get at this council.

Not showing up to ease in PCC was not helpful to your case.

Um and you know, so setting all of that aside, I hope that all future developmenters here uh this could have gone a lot more smoothly.

Um with that, I'm really hoping that next time if if council agrees to a um if council agrees to tabling this that we hear actual specifics about how council member specific concerns which were enumerated um are actually gonna be addressed and not vaguely that it is a site that can accommodate a lot of a lot of concerns.

So mayor, with that, I'm gonna go ahead and move to have this tabled until um the petitioner comes to staff with a specific proposal that addresses council concerns and staff has enough time to review that councilman White Sure.

I'm gonna go ahead and move um make the motion uh and move the table agenda item L1 to the November 4th, 2025 City Council meeting.

Councilman Holzhour, does that drive with your uh well the the point of clarification?

Sorry to put you on the seat, Ms.

Spano.

Uh, but point of clarification.

If the petitioner doesn't have their stuff ready in time or staff needs more time, I I actually would rather that it'd be later.

I don't want to run it.

Uh so is there a reason it has to be November 24th?

Uh November 4th.

That's what um we had discussed with staff that that would be an adequate time for them to review everything, it gives them four weeks uh to have that resubmittal with the revised plan.

Okay, but it's a little of the council.

Um councilman Holzer, are you good with it?

I'm I'm fine.

I'm seeing Mr.

Krieger's kind of indicating.

Yeah, uh just real quick uh a table without a date would come back to the next meeting.

Um we need a date certain perfect because the next meeting would not be sufficient.

Thank you.

Now I understand.

Yep.

Um good uh deferring to councilman white's version of that.

Thank you, Mayor.

Councilman White, you had a motion, go you have a question.

Yeah, just a quick question.

I uh I think you had slides that you didn't get to because you ran out of time.

If you can submit that to staff, if you and staff if you want to forward that to us, that'd be great.

Um but I'm good with the motion.

I just need a second.

Okay, councilman Hulzer, you want a second?

Sure, second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second to table item L one.

Roll call.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Cyan.

Aye.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Morley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holz Hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

So you're gonna get your stuff submitted to professional staff, and then we will come back on November 4th.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman White, M1.

Mayor move to approve the recommendation by Allera Group to award medical claim administration services to Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois for an amount not to exceed $2,897,891 and five cents in fixed costs based on HMO and PBO enrollment for one year term.

Motion a second on L or excuse me, M1.

Roll call.

McBroom.

Aye.

Cyan.

I White.

I Wilson.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holds hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, M2.

Mayor moved approve the recommendation by a Lira group to ward stop loss reinsurance to Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois for an amount not to exceed $1,294,966 and 56 cent in fixed premium based on PBO enrollment for a one-year term.

Okay, second Kelly.

Motion and a second on an M2 roll call.

Saiyed.

I White.

I Wilson.

I Orley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holds hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I McBroom.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White, M3.

Mayor move to approve the recommendation by a Lyra Group to renew pharmacy benefit manager services with CVS.

Uh care mark employers health.

VPS for one year term.

Second Kelly.

We have a motion and a second on M3 roll call.

White.

Aye.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holds hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

Councilman White M4.

Mayor move to approve the recommendation by Lyra Group to renew group life accidental death and dismemberment in FML.

A insurance with voya for it an amount not to exceed 866,343 based on enrollment for three years.

Second Kelly.

We have a motion and second on M4.

Roll call.

Wilson.

Aye.

Worley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holz Hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

Aye.

McBroom.

Aye.

Saiyan.

Aye.

White.

Aye.

Motion passes nine zero.

And Councilman White, M five.

Mayor move to approve the recommendation by a Lira group to award weight management program services to CVS care mark for an amount not to exceed 103,112 for a one-year term.

Second Kelly.

Motion and a second on M5.

Roll call.

Orley.

Yes.

Gibson.

Aye.

Holz Hour.

Aye.

Jane.

Aye.

Kelly.

I McBroom.

I say in.

I.

Wilson.

All right.

Motion passes nine zero.

Our final item of the night is new businesses reminder.

New businesses for items.

This council is asking us to have to bring back in a future agenda or for motions to reconsider past council votes.

Does anybody have any new business?

Councilman White.

Real quick, Mayor.

I I brought this up a few times.

And um it's good.

I see former councilwoman Alang and Bahu spoke on this issue.

I thought very graciously earlier.

Um but just accessibility accessible parking, especially in our downtown.

Uh specifically, I'm looking, I was just on Jefferson Street.

I went to go uh check out the new restaurant linens.

And uh I have my father-in-law with me.

He he uh he's using a walker like many um uh seniors would be at his at his age, but um there's just there's no place for any for for him to park if he if he had the ability to drive.

Uh I know we meet the standards for uh whatever that is for accessible parking, but it's it's just needs to be relooked because it it's really uh taking residents and and give and they don't have the ability to visit some of our places, it's just plain and simple.

Um so from an accessibility standpoint, um I think that is something I like to see revisited.

I you know, one I mean two or three spots just on that block alone would would be would be amazing, and I get part of the challenge might be business owners not wanting to have those empty slots out there in front of their business, but right now we we're really hurting our um uh residents who can't um just can't make it happen uh based off of their conditions director.

Do you want to respond?

Um I do believe we are meeting um what would be required um to meet accessibility requirements.

Um I think one of the challenges we would have would be knowing where to put those spaces.

Um so we would certainly need feedback on that.

I would think that if it's desired for us to take a look at that, we'd probably want to get some input from downtown Aprilville Alliance.

We could potentially talk with our um uh the uh accessibility um I think we have the task force as well as the um uh commission on disabilities, so we could look for input from those groups to come up with some suggestions as well as what you've just uh mentioned here.

Yeah, that that that would be great.

And you know, like I said, it's like you said, it's it does we do meet the standard, but it's just it's not doing what it needs to do for certain members of our community.

Thank you, Mayor.

Okay, any other new business seeing none, may have a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Second Kelly, motion and second, all those in favor sign aye.

Opposed, we are adjourned.