Thank you.

He was trying the whole time.

Let's start the meeting by taking a roll call attendance, please.

Alderman O'Brien.

President.

Here.

Baldwin Thibodeau.

Here.

Aldman Gobayo.

Aldman Lopez.

Here.

Aldman Clemens.

Uh I am here.

I am participating via Zoom.

I can hear everybody.

Uh I'm in the room by myself, and the purpose is because I'm taking care of my spouse who Aldman Sonna.

Here.

Baldwin Jelly.

Here.

Aldman Tebo.

Yeah.

Aldwin Clee.

Here.

Alderman down.

Present.

Alderwoman Kelly.

Here.

Alwin Wilshire.

Here.

Twelve present to Robson.

Thank you.

Also joining us via Zoom is Mayor Jim Donchus, and with us in person is Corporation Council Steve Bolton.

So I'm going to take a moment to um recognize our colleague, Gloria Timmons, who passed away on Wednesday, October twenty-ninth after our last meeting.

What I'd like to do is have a moment of silence so we can remember Gloria.

But Madam President, I wanted to join you in expressing uh deep regret for the passing of Alder Woman Gloria Tibbins.

She was a close friend to many of us and many, many close friends throughout the national community.

She had served not only on the board of Alderman for nearly four years before her passing, but also had been on the school board for four years.

She wonderful person, very warm and just a big family.

One thing about her that you know I wanted to make the you know she was very modest.

She was a 25-year veteran of the U.S.

Army, and something she didn't really very much, and I a couple of times said to her, you know, especially in terms of her seeking elective office.

I said you should talk about that more.

I mean, people respect that, you know.

This is there aren't many 25-year veterans in Nashua, or some, but you're one of us one of the two, um, which he did a little bit, but uh I know she's going to be missed by many of us, and uh there will be uh calling hours and a funeral later, I think on the 23rd of November, uh and she definitely will be missed, as I've already said.

Um but with that, madam president, I wanted to move on to the election.

I want congratulations to successful in being elected to the Board of Alderman.

Uh it is quite a privilege to serve the city.

Uh certainly it's a situation where you, as a new member of the Board of Alderman, learn a lot about the city.

Many some of your ideas are confirmed, some are not when you get into the details.

Uh, and uh also, though, thank you to everyone who sought election and uh for putting on the line and trying to help our community.

And we do owe a thanks uh for the election to City Clerk Dan Healy and the staff for again doing a great job with it.

Uh also with the for the election workers uh who you know are essentially volunteer because they get us they get a little bit of money, but they they're not doing this for the money.

So we have people working in every war who really who make our look not only our local election and national elections when they come around to uh make them possible.

I wanted also to mention, madam, uh recognition that the city received.

There was a study that was published in the ported there, that Nasha was found uh the best place to move to, the best city to move to in the United States.

Now, of course, we've been fortunate to receive many of these recognitions and honors over the years.

Uh best place to live in America, best run cities, one of the safest cities.

And we owe just a lot of different people for that because the whole community uh gather, and I think we're all very fortunate to be living in Nashua and uh have this as our home.

Um President, I wanted to mention that we have on the agenda the confirmation of Dan Diane Mulholland as the sixth uh treasure tax collector.

Uh she's been interviewed by personnel.

Uh you know, if you've looked at her resume or saw the interview, um she's very well qualified.

She's worked uh for the for other communities, Londonderry, Lebanon, uh before that, I believe, and uh certainly will do uh a good job for the for the city, and she's just waiting for confirmation before um begins her duties uh in just a few days.

Uh so I hope everybody will um uh endorse her and uh so that we can get uh her as Ms.

Mel Holland is the city treasurer tax collector.

Um Madam President, I also wanted to just run through some of the uh new items that are on the agenda.

Um we have surplus, and you can in the public hearings you'll certainly hear all of the details, but they we have suggested that uh a number of items be funded from the surf is in the various resolutions that are proposed and on the agenda.

Uh there is R25215 would create three million dollars for special ed.

And in addition, because unavailability of special ed teachers, the district has had to contract with various agencies to provide special ed education and bring people in, which is far more expensive than hiring employees.

Also 1.5 million dollars for the capital equipment reserve fund, which is the purchase of equipment.

We did budget two and a half million dollars for this, but various aldermen have made the point that rather than funding this out of surplus, it should be in the budget.

So we included we were phasing that approach in over two years.

Two and a half million dollars in the budget.

Next year I expect we'll fund the entire thing in the budget, and we'll uh uh but in order to purchase we need this uh appropriation of 1.5 million dollars.

There's also a million and a half dollars for the health care self-insurance fund.

Uh this help this pays for health insurance for employees.

We have a reserve, we do not have uh commercial insurance, we were self-funded, and we need to just have a balance there that's sufficient, and we just want to make sure that uh there's enough there to make sure and money left over at the end of the year, but we just want to make sure that uh everything is covered and we can carry a balance forward into next year.

Also um $300,000 for a resource center, which I will discuss uh in a few in a minute.

Uh and you see resolution uh R 25216, and finally um R25 uh 22, I believe, uh, would appropriate $325,000 to cover CDBG and lead program expenses.

Uh we this will be necessary because it was a contingency plan uh if we lost money as a result of the or lost funding as a result of shutdown.

We're not expecting now that the government is open, federal government is open again.

We don't expect that this will uh be necessary, and we probably I expect we'll withdraw this, but it is there on the agenda.

Finally, Madam President, I wanted to mention the uh reconsideration motion regarding O2579, which is the resolution which ordinance, excuse me, it's ordinance 2579, which enables the police department, gives them the authority to resolve plus encampment at Pine Street extension going into Mine Falls Park.

I think we've heard from members of the community and uh the police department.

Obviously, there's concern about this.

Um I just wanted to that we're not suggesting that this is in any way going to resolve homelessness.

I mean, it or and make it so that there will not be unduals in Nashaw.

I mean, there's no question that uh that situ unfortunate situation will continue.

But we have an encampment there at the Pine Street Extension that has grown in size.

Uh more crimes uh have occurred.

There's been it's all in the last week or so, another one.

Uh the police department feels that it is just a hazard to the people who are living there and people around the encampment.

And without this ordinance, they really they the police department will not have the uh authority to be able to resolve it.

Um I wanted to stress that we want to handle the situation with humanity, we realize and compassion, we realize that there are a lot of unfortunate people that are suffering from house situation.

Um we though are taking efforts to help people as much as we can within our remote, we have been a public health department with the community health workers, Bobby Bagley and um Ms.

Missy have been Mucioli have been connecting people with shelter with housing with care with treatment for uh abuse.

They have been uh out there every day and they still are, and they're working on that, and they've helped a lot of people, but for every person that they move on to a more successful existence, it seems like there's another one or two people that uh you know are on the street.

So I think at the last meeting we reached a compromise, which was to pass ordinance 02579, but also to resources to creating a resource center uh in addition to the warming station that we operated for the last couple of years.

Uh as you can see, and I mentioned there is there's proposed funding for the resource center.

Uh we are optimistic, uh confident that we can get a lease in the downtown area close to service, which we believe we can resolve and bring to you in the next few weeks at the most.

Um so as part of that compromise from last time, we are moving forward with this resource center, which will help people during the daytime provide another resource and uh location for unhoused individuals to go when they wish to uh or need to go somewhere during the daytime and where they can connect with our firm public health workers, but also with nonprofits and uh all of the people that are working on the issue of homelessness uh in Nashua.

So I understand the many good people have uh reservation and objections to ordinance, but um I think under the circumstances uh if we do not act or continue to act, you know, the encampment at uh Pine Street Extension will grow and will become more hazardous, and eventually there will be I believe more unfortunate uh situations uh there at the encampment.

Um that's all I have, Madam President, and uh again just go back to Gloria and say that uh you know we're really gonna miss her, and I know Ms.

Ms.

Gregg is going to be sworn in tonight to take her place, or at least that's my understanding, and uh you know I welcome her, but uh certainly we'll still miss Gloria.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Mayor.

Response to the remarks of the mayor, I'm gonna start over here tonight.

Anyone okay, seeing none?

Recognition period.

None reading minutes of previous meetings.

There being no objection, I'll declare the minutes of the special board of alderman meetings of September 18th and September 22nd.

The accepted place down file and the reading suspended.

Communications requiring only procedural actions and written reports from liaisons.

Communication has been received from Tim Cummings, administrative services director regarding communication on supplemental supplemental appropriations using surplus funds.

Communication has been received from all the women at large, Shoshona Kelly regarding encampment data.

Communication has been received from Borrie Wilshire, President Board of Alderman regarding colony special board of all meeting on November 15th, 2025, relative to the request for recome of votes cast on November 4th election.

There being no objection, I'll accept the communications and place them on file.

Period for public comment relative to items expected to be acted upon this evening.

We have 20 people signed up to speak.

This is the fourth meeting now, maybe the fifth meeting.

That we've taken public testimony on this issue.

What I'm gonna ask you tonight is if you've given your remarks already that you cut your remarks short and not go over the full three minutes, um, in an effort for anyone who hasn't spoken yet to have that opportunity.

So I'm gonna leave it there, and I'm gonna call the first person up.

I need your name, please, and your address for the record.

The first person is Miss Lee.

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Lee.

Actually, my name is Lee Smell, but in this city I am called the sweet.

Miss Lee, do you have an address?

No.

Okay.

I I am a resident occupant over at the mines calls right now.

I've been there saying Snay.

Thank you.

I'm here to state two points.

The ordinance two five and seven.

The first one, I think this is out of the jurisdiction of this board.

The provision of incumbent incumbent on public lands and property violates the Eighth Amendment and the 14th Amendment of the U.S.

Constitution.

Under the clause of the cruel and unusual punishment.

Robinson versus the state of California.

Holland versus the state of Texas.

How could we get the ordinance over federal law?

Or over the US Constitution?

The city has no jurisdiction over the U.S.

Constitution.

The second point I wanted to thank you.

The second point I wanted to bring to this board is that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Article 25, paragraph one.

Housing is a birthright.

The right to a standard of living, adequate for the health and well-being of himself and his or her family, including food, clothing, housing, medical care, necessary social services, and the right to security in a bank of unemployment, sickness, disability, we don't hood, old age, or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his or her control.

So based on this declaration, if this is the birthright.

Then this has to there's no more uh we can have uh give a housing with a precognition that you have to be sober oppressed, or you are to be housing ready.

It's a birthright.

That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Susan Mead.

Good evening, Lord Barleman, Mayor, and concerned citizens.

I'm Susan Mead.

I work at Greater National Mental Health at 7 Prospect Street, Nashua.

I'll be there 40 years.

Come March.

I've been the state hospital liaison for over 30 years, and I'm the Path Outreach Worker, which stands for Projects to Assist Transition from Homelessness.

My role is to actually help those who are not connected to housing or at risk of being homeless or homeless that have a mental health issue or mental health and substance misuse disorder.

I can tell you, as a state hospital liaison, last month, there are 175 people up there, 100 people were ready for discharge with nowhere to go.

They're spending $1,600 a day to live there.

That's $16 million a year for a hundred people that have no place to live.

At some point in time, our community needs to recognize the true vulnerable people need our support.

We have what's called transitional housing, but we really need group homes.

Legislation back in the 70s created the 10 mental health centers.

I don't think they knew about the cost of housing.

Our folks make $800 a month.

Where can you find that without subsidy?

We're really in recognizing the need to take care of those that are more vulnerable.

And ignoring that, you're gonna have more folks out in the street.

I helped create the mental health court that is now called community connections.

Judge Delanus, Judge Howarth, and when Judge Leary came on board, it mushroomed in 2005.

We are now working together in ways we never have.

We meet at the jail month quarterly now with prosecutors, public defenders, judges, trying to recognize that one in five folks will have a major mental illness in their life.

Given enough stress, I'll tell you it's all of us who hasn't taken their turn.

Right?

So I think we just need a little more compassion.

I'll leave with we're not here to see through one another, we're here to see one another through.

It is is also World Kindness Day today, by the way.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mike Appleberg.

Mr.

Appelberg, do you have something new to share with us tonight?

Well, I gee, I don't know.

I would say I would like to be heard tonight.

I don't feel necessarily that the listening has taken place.

These people are here for the fourth time, as you point out, Alderman Wilshire.

I I'm sensing that they don't necessarily feel heard.

So I do feel that my point maybe.

I don't know, you judge for yourself.

So I'm Mike Alphabet, I'm president of the United Way, and I would say before we consider ordinances that do criminalize camping, make no doubt that is exactly what we are doing, or sleeping in vehicles.

We need to understand our actual local reality.

In New Hampshire, the 2024 point in time count showed the highest statewide homelessness numbers in over over a decade, with unsheltered homelessness up over 60% since 2020.

We all know that we have one of the lowest rate vacancy rates in the country, just 0.6%.

And Hillsborough County, a person earning a minimum wage can afford just 70% can afford $780 of rent in rent.

A typical one bedroom in our apartment community costs $1,500.

Here in Nashua, shelters are full.

We have no low barrier engagement center, and we lack affordable housing for residents with extremely low incomes or disability benefits.

Given this reality, when someone living outside is told you cannot stay here, as I have heard several times this week and last.

At this moment, Nashua has no adequate answer.

We cannot tell people they can't sleep in a tent when we don't have enough shelter beds.

And we can't tell people they can't sit in their car when we have no daytime center.

And we can't tell people to find housing when it does not exist.

Criminalizing homelessness will not fix these shortages.

They will only shuffle people around the city, increasing public costs.

As I've stated on previous occasions, we at United Way, along with many other community partners, many with us today, stand ready with volunteers and resources to support truly constructive efforts.

In fact, we've already recruited over 35 volunteers just to support the overnight shelter.

As a community, we can choose this right now as our time to come together and do the right thing for the long-term good of our community.

I encourage you to be open to that possibility this evening with your deliberations in this subject once again, and not to disregard the many voices who have come here to share their perspectives.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Audrey Holt, maybe I'm sorry, I can't read the last name.

I have terrible handwriting.

My name is Audrey Holst, 105 Shore Drive.

I am a community member here, and I've been down to the encampments and had some conversations with folks down there.

And I think the thing that I just want to express is somebody who lives in Nashua and loves living in Nash, living in Nashua, and who's one of my biggest goals when I moved here was to be a part of the community and to know my neighbors.

And being in this room and knowing that I have neighbors that are about to be criminalized for doing the best they can in situations.

Being down there and just listening to people's stories, I'm like, this could be any one of us.

Any one of us could be in the same situation that these folks are in.

And they need resources, they need the help that people are offering, and we need some more time.

This ordinance is just not a solution.

And I'm not saying anything that anybody else has is not going to say this evening, but that whole question, like where should I go?

These folks are building community and safety and relationships and are taking care of each other the best they can with the resources that are currently coming in.

And they're my neighbors, right?

These are my neighbors, these are my community members, and as their neighbor, I don't want them criminalized.

I don't want them uh broken apart and then sent to places that we may not be able to track them, we may not be able to get them the resources they need.

Um there are just it's just seems like this is an issue that there are so many solutions being proposed that are not this one.

Um I want to be supporting and listening to the folks who've been working boots on the ground um for years on this issue, and um this ordinance just does not support all of the work that's been done up to this point.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Cynthia Whittaker.

All right, good evening, Mayor and members of the board.

I'm Dr.

Cynthia Whitaker, President CEO of Greater Nashua Mental Health, which has multiple locations throughout Nashua, including 100 West Pearl Street, where my office is located.

I'm here, of course, regarding the motion uh to reconsider uh the ordinance prohibiting camping.

While we appreciate the 14-day notice provision as a step toward greater humanity, I'm asking you to reconsider the ordinance entirely because notice without alternatives still criminalizes people for having nowhere to go.

Since your last vote, the fundamental problem remains unchanged.

We still lack sufficient shelter capacity and affordable housing options.

Giving someone 15 days' notice to leave an encampment doesn't change the reality that they have no other safe legal place to be.

While I appreciate the city's plan to open a warming station and setting funds aside for a resource center, the evidence on criminalization across this country is clear.

It's costly and ineffective.

Communities spend tens of thousands per person annually on enforcement, while people experiencing homelessness report that citations make it harder to exit homelessness.

Enforcement simply moves people to more isolated locations where outreach workers cannot reach them.

What works instead?

Housing first, supportive housing models, have proven track records of actually reducing homelessness while saving communities money.

But these require us to invest differently in low-barrier shelter options, in supportive housing programs, in resource centers and expanding services, not in criminalization.

Greater Nashville Mental Health remains committed to being part of real solutions.

We're ready to partner in developing evidence-based approaches that address both community concern and root causes of homelessness.

I urge you to vote yes on reconsidering this ordinance and to direct resources toward proven interventions instead.

Criminalizing homelessness harms vulnerable individuals, perpetuates poverty, and imposes significant avoidable costs on our city budget.

Redirecting resources to housing and supportive services not only is more humane, it is also more fiscally responsible, with evidence showing better outcomes for both individuals and communities.

Let's be a community that solves homelessness, not one that simply displaces people for experiencing it.

Thank you for consideration.

Tonya Nisley.

That's for a reason.

It's because we do have community and we do have people that care.

We have agencies that are literally ready to put their own personal time on the line to help people in need.

And we need a city that's gonna support us and support the people in it in a positive and productive way and not to criminalize people who have already been traumatized and punished enough just for being alive.

Please reconsider and please understand again in your hearts.

People need people.

People are that are gonna check in on them, and people that are gonna make sure that they get the care and the and that they need so that they're prepared to actually be in a home and be able to sustain it in the future.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Andrew Horn.

Andrew Horn, 34 Blueberry Hill Road, Amherst.

President Wilshar, members of the board, thank you for the chance to speak.

First, I want to thank the alderman who voted against this ordinance, and I want to thank Alderman Moran for his motion to reconsider.

I was a field organizer in Nashua last year, and I've been out knocking doors for Democrats again this year.

I've campaigned for many of you and uh for friends and allies.

I I'm here as part of the same democratic base that's helped elect this board.

And I'm asking you to oppose this ordinance.

I know our side is divided on housing.

A lot of Democrats are skeptical of new development after seeing projects promise affordability and deliver very little.

We have to deal with the reality in front of us.

Rents are up, vacancies are down, and more people are living outside.

The lesson from places that are tackling this is that we need both both compassion and more homes.

When a city adds modest lower cost options and makes it legal to share housing in flexible ways, it reduces pressure on rents and makes it easier to move people out of homelessness.

When a city just cracks down on visible poverty without adding options, people don't disappear.

They're pushed into more dangerous hidden places.

On ADUs, the state already requires at least one accessory dwelling unit per single family home.

That's a start, but Nashua still decides how usable those options are, how hard the permits are, what parking and design rules look like, and whether we allow other small lower cap class, lower cost homes.

Boarding houses, rooming houses, small apartment buildings, and conversions of big older homes into safe multi-tenant housing.

Those are the kinds of units people on fixed or working class incomes can actually afford.

So instead of passing ordinances that make it harder to be visibly poor in Nashua, we should do two things.

First, we should make the city more humane for people who are already homeless, more outreach instead of punishment, more low low barrier shelter and services, and treating people in encampments as neighbors in crisis, not nuance nuisances.

Second, make it easier to create and convert housing.

Explicitly allow boarding housing and rooming houses, legalize small apartments.

Um we want fewer tents and fewer people on the streets.

We need more keys and more hands, not more citations and criminal records.

I urge you to vote no on this ordinance and put your energy into those real solutions.

Thank you.

Ben Heaney.

Hello, my name is Ben Heaney.

I'm at two and a half Verona Street.

Um I'd just like to thank Alderman Moran for bringing this back to the table and listening to the community.

Um you guys have talked about this for 10 or 11 hours.

I don't think there's much more breath to waste on this.

Um I'd just like to lend my voice uh to those you know supporting repealing this ordinance.

Um, and I'd like you all to think about you know later tonight when you've got 900,000 dollars to literally build a roof and what I'm sure that passes without friction.

Um, the deep deep irony of you know what's going on here.

So thank you.

Tony Markowitz.

Tori Markowitz, sorry.

Hi, I'm Tori Markowitz, Victoria Markovitz.

I live at 759 Grove Street in Manchester.

Um, and I live in Manchester because I haven't been able to find affordable housing here.

Um there's a crisis and there's nowhere for people to live.

I've already spoken in opposition of this camping ban.

I wish I didn't have to be here again and speaking in opposition to it.

Um I think that we really need to be spending our time thinking about mid-term and long-term solutions to housing to the housing crisis and the homelessness crisis.

Um the warming station and the resource center are really crucial stepping stones.

Um they keep people warm and keep people from dying in the cold, and it's still not a solution to the homelessness crisis.

Um it doesn't create new places for people to sleep at night or for people to live and store their belongings and have a home.

Um some people will tell you, we um a few of us went to the encampment at Pine Street earlier today.

Um we met some of the people that lived there.

I talked to a pregnant woman, a reverend, a veteran, a mentally disabled person, um, all vulnerable people who deserve places to live.

Um we asked them what they wanted to see built in Nashua to address the homelessness crisis.

Um, and they said pretty much the same things as the public health department's been saying.

Um, shelter beds, transitional housing, more affordable housing.

Um, and I would really just like to see the board prioritizing funding to build some of these projects so that we don't have to be here debating whether or not people should be permitted to sleep outside when they shouldn't have to be there in the first place.

Thank you.

Annabelle Bonner Hello, my name is Annabelle Bonner, and I live at two New Haven Drive, apartment 203 in Nashua.

I want to start off by saying good evening to the board and to the community.

Um and also thank you for having this meeting.

Our system is structured but under stress.

Rising homelessness and limited housing options mean we both we need both long-term and short-term solutions.

I appreciate the city's concern for public safety and health, but if we ban camping where there aren't enough housing alternatives, we risk simply displacing people and criminalizing property.

I urge you to connect any enforcement of a camping ban to measurable progress on housing alternatives such as rapid free housing, problem solving funds, and safe temporary spaces.

People shouldn't be told where they cannot be unless we are also providing somewhere they can be.

A humane practical approach helps both those experiencing homelessness and the broader community.

While permanent housing takes time, we can create safe low barrier temporary options like sanctioned camping or parking areas.

And the president already mentioned indoor warming spaces, but with sanitation, security, and outreach services.

These reduce public health impacts while offering stability and connection to housing.

Criminalizing camping is costly and ineffective.

Instead, let's focus on harm reduction and service connection using referrals rather than citation and citations and arrests whenever possible.

Finally, I encourage exploring vacant or underused buildings, churches, relocatable units, or shared housing to expand capacity quickly and long while longer term housing comes online.

In short, let's ensure our policies reflect both accountability and compassion, balancing public safety with a basic dignity of ensuring of ensuring everyone has somewhere safe to be.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Haria Shams?

Thank you.

My name's Arya Shams.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm in Ward 8 Royal Trust.

And there's so many, I had something prepared.

Everyone's pretty much covered what I was gonna say, some stats.

When I moved back home, I grew up in Pelham, New Hampshire, which is like right next door.

And when I moved back to Nashua in 2020, I was so happy to leave LA during COVID.

I was paying $1,500 a month for a two-bedroom.

This state has 0.6% vacancy rate.

As a response to that, what we decided to do as a state is pass HP 60, which is no fault eviction.

So now with with no vacancy, no rent control, no fault eviction, you've basically legalized forced displacement.

And this case right here is criminalizing poverty.

If you're talking about crime in this area in Nashua, and the police is complaining about the crime, we're gonna be paying for that.

We're gonna be paying for the police, the increased police presence as we continue to recycle the houseless back into the criminal justice system.

They don't need fines, they need housing, not handcuffs.

And that's all I need to say.

Thank you.

Rihanna Laguerre.

Hi, I'm Rihanna from Haverill, Massachusetts, born in Lebanon, New Hampshire, however.

Um I have been unhoused before.

Um I am not now, and that is such an incredible privilege that I have a place to sleep in, that I have a roof over my head.

I can't imagine if the time period that I was in house, that I would to you know be thrown out of the tent I was in, everything taken away from me, and then a fine on top of it.

Um that is just the definition of beating somebody while they're down.

And um, it's been like 10 years or so since I've been unhoused, and I've come a long way since then, but anybody can become unhoused for any which reason.

And I just want to highlight that I don't think that is um within the police authority to be able to criminalize people for just not having a roof.

Um, and I don't think people should be uh criminalized on stolen land either.

Bustin Gersenfield?

Good evening, Justin Gersonfield, 79 Gilson Road.

As y'all are looking to reconsider this, I just wanted to give some reminders of numbers as we're looking at a housing crisis and just remember what I said previously of you've only listened to half of the experts.

It's time to listen to the other half of the experts, our public health officials, the researchers that have said that you need to have the hand in glove approach of having a place for all of our residents to go when we enact this.

Our minimum wage is 725 an hour.

If you work 40 hours a week, that is not even $15,000 a year.

So how are we going to expect if everyone in an encampment is working 40 hours a week?

How are they to afford any housing that we have available in our city?

Even if they have two or three roommates available to them.

So I want you to think about that when you're asking them to reconsider this bill of how many hours a week would people have to work.

I did the math.

It would be about 137 hours a week that somebody would have to work to make almost $50,000 a year on our current minimum wage.

So I ask that you consider that while you're thinking about the reconsideration of this ordinance.

Thank you.

Bob Keating.

But first of all, I want to say is something that I didn't plan to say, but we're in a more difficult time about housing.

The HUD has released the preliminary indications that they want to change 3.5 billion dollars of funding.

And some of that would be directly related to the COC monies that we get in the neighborhood of $2 million.

And so our actions may be more influenced about what we can do if this goes through to protect those who are already in permanent supported uh housing of that.

So that's the framework.

Um last week we had the strategic plan COC for ending homelessness.

There was a lot of excitement, uh new committees uh formed.

And thinking back of that, 21 years ago we had a tremendous amount of excitement about our plan to end homelessness, a home for uh for everyone.

Um we are 22 years later, and we have not we have not uh achieved that in part because we didn't keep the focus on what Miles Pendry, who is a long-term member of uh Harbor Care said when you were looking at what we had written, and he said, I get it, homelessness bad, housing good.

That's the central uh issue.

Um we do that each time.

So the ordinance itself, you've heard many, many different parts, but I want to add some some different things.

Nobody in the many conversations I've had over over months have said really who are living there have said close the encampment.

Uh nobody has said that.

Uh nobody has said that's the best place.

Nobody would go there for you know vacation.

Uh uh, it's not a place uh you know to be.

Uh people have chosen to be there because it looks like a better alternative to other things.

So in wrapping it up, and I'll I'll finish it up in the remarks after uh at the end of the meeting, is that we have the resources, we have a budget of 360 million.

Uh we have uh the ability to translate the money that we're getting now, $30,000 uh uh for police, uh extra police patrols to make that from 15 to 40 uh units people could uh move to just on that money alone.

So I'll I'll end at that point in time, but I hope whatever you decide on this is that you focus on what we're going to do to protect the people in the most vulnerable so that we become the city that is the best for people who are most challenged economically, mentally, and physically.

Thank you.

Phil Molbeck.

Currently a uh resident in sober living over on Kingsley Street.

Um yeah, I would I would be I would reconsider um due to the fact that me previously being homeless, um, only thing keeping me from being homeless is the past six months going through one of the programs out here, getting into sober living.

Um, you know, at one point a few months ago when I was living in a sober living house, you know, with the help of the OS program, Bobby Bag Latani, everybody over there, um, with the with the resources that are there, um helped me stay in my living situation.

I was able to, when I speak at meetings out here, um, I was able to share that information with other people, other people getting help and everything.

So, you know, I'm I'm grateful for that.

And uh, yeah, just they get the the resource center, that's gonna work.

Um I'm willing to play any part of it.

Um I've lived in a similar situation out in uh Portsmouth, New Hampshire at the crossroads shelter.

You stay overnight, you know, you guaranteed a bed, people can come in, put their name on the sign-up sheet, have an overflow department, it works in phases, and it does work.

It got a lot of people off the streets.

There was a time, I think it was maybe a couple years ago.

There was a homeless encampment, same situation up in Summersworth, New Hampshire.

That got cleared out.

People had nowhere to go.

Everybody flooded the streets, there's people laid out in front of market basket.

You know, um, even when I go out out here, I talk to people in the stores, cashiers and things like that, who also see this in front of the stores where they work, you know, Walgreens, uh, you know, Shaw's over there and everything, and and I know a lot of these people.

I've been in programs with them, I've been out here homeless with them.

I used to sleep in the alleyway at Temple Street Market and down by the falls.

Um, and you know, just it's just gonna scatter people around, no one knowing where to go.

I know somebody right now who sometimes sleeps across from um churchide market next to the church, just because she feels like it gives her hope.

You know, um, and those are the things that when we're in those situations, and my homeless situation started back in 2016.

So, other than if I was you know met up with somebody who luckily gave me a place to stay for a little bit of time, being on the streets dealing with mental health, dealing with addiction.

We want to get better.

We can get better.

We're not stupid people, it's just that we're broken in a lot of ways that a lot of people don't see, and we don't want to live that way.

And some people just aren't ready, some people just don't know the resources out there.

Thank you.

And uh that's all I want to say.

I would definitely reconsider.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Cassie Carroll.

My name is Cassie Carroll, and I'm fortunate enough to live at 32 Will of a Drive.

I've been homeless a few years ago.

My young daughters and I were living in an RV in my mother's driveway.

All because two idiots decided they wanted to try their hand at property management and bought the house that I had called home for over five years.

They couldn't afford to do so without more than doubling my rent.

But that didn't stop them.

Now I'm a homeowner.

And no, I didn't get where I am by picking myself up by my bootstraps, because that isn't possible.

I also didn't get there by being fined or forced to relocate over and over again.

The honest answer is privilege.

Nothing more.

But no one has ever gotten ahead by being fined.

You think that their living situation is a concern of public health and safety?

How do you think they feel?

Having only a thin tent wall separating them from the outside world, from the elements, from the dangers of it all.

You don't feel safe sending your child unsupervised into the park anymore.

At least they don't have to live there.

To place this burden on the most vulnerable members of our community is a disgrace.

These people need a helping hand, but the only hand reaching out to them holds a violation.

Rather than punishing those who cannot afford to live, we should be holding accountable those who make living unaffordable.

The banks that hold a house off market to create scarcity.

The landlord that overcharges his tenants, because that's what the market will bear.

The employer who does not pay a livable wage and in doing so lines his own pockets with the fruits of our labor.

We work over 40 hours a week for billion dollar companies and still can't make ends meet.

And that is truly wrong.

If any decision is made here tonight, let it be to feed and clothe and house my neighbor, for they are cold and hungry, and it is the only right thing to do.

All right, Cazola.

Thank you.

It's uh Eric 9 Johnson Street.

Um I'm here to uh stand in against that ordinance.

Um before I begin too, I'd like to thank uh Alderman Lopez, who is the only alderman to come to the continuation of care symposium last week, which was specifically addressing the homelessness epidemic that's happening in Nashua.

There was a conference room full of experts, full of health experts, researchers, statistics, tons of people, and it was a wealth of knowledge.

They were just saying every single thing you could imagine for helping solve this problem.

But the number one thing that caught me while I was sitting there listening was no one, and and I they were bipartisan, no one was standing in support of this ordinance.

As a matter of fact, there was a lot of people pointing to statistics and data saying how this ordinance is going to hurt.

And I would just encourage you the next time we have these work groups, come and listen, listen to the experts, listen to the health officials, because they're there literally tirelessly every day, pumping through data, coming through solutions, working on issues.

And I volunteer with Grant State Organization Project.

We're we're down in the camps today, and they we were just talking to people.

What are you going to do?

What are you gonna do when you're displaced?

Where are you going to go?

And they were talking to all the social workers, saying how you know I've almost got my social security card, I've almost got my birth certificate.

These are things I need to get a job, these are things that I need to get housing.

And being displaced, they're not going they don't have a way to keep track of the social workers or where they're going to be.

So you're just hurting them.

You're making you're setting them back further than we already are.

Like exactly my friend Bob said over there.

No one wants to live down there.

It's a horrible condition.

But banning them and and making them illegal is making the the whole situation worse.

And one last thing that I wanted to point up, because I'll just be honest, I'm kind of tired of it, the whole slander of it being a crime haven and homelessness being dangerous.

So I I back when I lived in West Virginia used to work for the Bureau of Crime Statistics, and so I pulled up the Department of Justice's crime statistics hot map here.

And if you can see all of Nashville, this is specifically violent crime.

And almost all of Nashua has violent crime.

So when we point out all the time that the homeless, oh, there's violence down there, and we need to do something because of the violence.

The whole city of Nashua has violence.

If you look even closer to the river, there's more of a hotbed of violence than what's going on at Pine Street Extension.

So please, when you when you try to slander those folks that are suffering enough, please consider that it's statistically wrong.

Like there's more crime elsewhere than just that specific area.

So thank you.

Um we get your name and address for the record, please.

Uh hello, I am Kai H.

Yeah, thanks.

Take it out so that you can hold it.

That's good.

Hello, my name is Kai H, and I live here in Ward 6 uh 43 Caldwell Road, Nashua, New Hampshire.

And I'm here to tell you why the law about camping in public is just so wrong.

We don't have enough um shelters and bed, we don't have enough beds and shelters.

And if we don't have enough beds and shelters, where do people without homes go to sleep?

Where public property is prop is public, and people can't go into shelters, and public property is all they have left.

And I think that having a place to sleep is a basic right for all people.

What this law is doing is basically making people illegal.

And what I've learned is that every human being is a blessing.

That is why this law should be taken down and thrown in the trash can.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Kim Hester.

I'm Kim Hester, 43 Caldwell Road, and I'm pastor at Christ the King Lutheran Church off of Broad Street.

And I'm not sure I can follow what my 11-year-old son just shared with everyone, because he speaks from his heart.

Myself and my husband are pastors, and we are often involved with people and in relationship with people who are unhoused.

And he hears the stories.

He meets the people.

And he has relationships with them just as we do.

And when he overheard us talking a week or so ago about this meeting, he said that shouldn't be.

And I said, Well, then you need to step up.

And he did.

And he tells tells me often that he doesn't understand how we can make it so that someone cannot simply sleep.

And I don't understand that either.

After how many years of education and experience as a teacher and a pastor, it's a question I can't answer.

But what I do know that it is much more complicated than simply what our laws are going to be or not be and how they're going to make people less than who they are.

It is a big problem, and the first thing we must engage is the homelessness first.

Housing must come first.

From there, all the other pieces, the hunger, the mental health, the jobs, everything else falls into place.

But we have to start there.

And until we get that, we're never going to come close to solving any of this.

And it's only going to keep getting worse.

And it's only going to draw greater divisions between people in our community, as it is, we're already divided.

This makes it bigger.

It is time that we stand up for our neighbors.

It is time that we remember that our neighbors are human beings.

Let us not overlook the people who stand in front of us, who stand around us, who are part of who this community is.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Sabrina.

I am agent 777.

And I work for the president of the United States of America.

And I have been taking record of how living conditions have been living in a tent on Pine Street Extension that is being talked about.

And I think the major problem about living in those conditions, and why I feel like it might be taken away, is because there has been a lot of disorderly conduct going on.

So it's been causing people to autistic, so it takes me a moment to get this out.

But a lot of people have been disorderly on Pine Street extension, and it's been very unclean in that area.

However, not everybody has acted disorderly, and I don't think it is fair to move out people who have been very orderly and very neat, and have been very grateful of the resources that have been freely given, like being able to be on Pine Street extension with a tent for free camping and free items that people may need on Sundays at the library that people have offered up.

However, some have taken advantage of that and made that area very disorderly.

So if you're going to move anybody out of that area, I would say make sure you know who you're moving out.

And don't move out the people who have actually been clean and care about hey, we were given the free space.

That's all I have to say.

Thank you.

That concludes public comment.

Communications requiring final approval.

Communication has been received from Mayor Jim Donch regarding multi-year contract award software subscription placer AI.

Alderman Clee.

Thank you, Madam President.

I motion to accept place on file and approve the multi-year renewal for the continued operation of Placer AI with Placer Labs Incorporated in the amount of $55,938.

Funding will be through Department 120 Technology Maintenance Fund, General Fund, 55 other services by roll call, please.

You've heard the motion.

Is there discussion on that motion?

Saying none, would the clerk please call the roll?

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Alderman Moran?

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau.

Yes.

Alderman Lopez.

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

Yes.

Alderman Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Senate.

Yes.

Alderman Jetty?

Yes.

Alderman Tvot?

Yes.

Alderman Clee?

Yes.

Alderman Dowd?

Yes.

Alderwoman Kelly?

Yes.

Alderman Wilshire.

Yes.

13 yes, 0 nays.

And that motion carries.

Communication has been received from Mayor Jim Dondres regarding multi-year contract award, lead paint inspection, risk assessment and clearance services.

Alderman Moran.

Thank you, Madam President.

I'd like to make a motion to accept place on file and approve a contract with New England Restorations LLC.

DBA above the rest inspections for lead inspection and risk assessment services and the amount not to exceed 560,000 dollars.

Funding will be through Department 184.

Urban Programs Fund HUD led hazard reduction in healthy homes grant.

54 property services by roll call.

You've heard the motion.

Is there discussion on that motion?

Seeing none, would the clerk please call the roll?

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Alderman Moran.

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau?

No.

Alderman Lopez?

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

Yes.

Alderman Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Senate.

Yes.

Alderman Jetty?

Yes.

Alderman Tvot?

Yes.

Alderman Clee?

Yes.

Alderman Dowd?

Yes.

Alderwoman Kelly?

Yes.

Alderman Wilshire.

Yes.

12 yes, one nay.

And that motion carries.

Communication has been received from Mayor Jim Dontress regarding multi-year contract award.

Change order number three for sewer contract one.

Alderman Clemens.

Thank you, Madam President.

I move to accept place on file and approves change order number three.

2025 sewer replacement project contract one with CRISP contracting and the amount not to exceed a million dollars.

Funding will through Department 169 Wastewater Fund bond 54 property services by roll call.

You've heard the motion.

Is there discussion on that motion?

Say none with the clerk please call the roll.

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Alderman Moran.

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau.

Yes.

Alderman Lopez.

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

Yes.

Alderman Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Senate.

Yes.

Alderman Jetty.

Yes.

Alderman Tvot?

Yes.

Alderman Clee?

Yes.

Alderman Dowd?

Yes.

Alderman Kelly.

Yes.

Alman Wilshire.

Yes.

13 yes, 0 nays.

And that motion carries.

Communication has been received from Dan Healy, City Clerk, regarding results of the November 4th, 2025 municipal election for the City of Nashua.

Alderman O'Brien.

Thank you, Madam President.

I would like to make a motion to accept and place on file the record of the returns from the municipal elections of November 4th, 2025.

That the election results for the candidates named their end be declared final and consumer to the candidates having received the best number of votes case for the number of positions available for the respective offices.

Be declared duly elected by roll call for the ensuring term, with the exception of the races for the Board of Alderman's awards one, five, and six, which requests have been made for recounts and a special board of alderman's meeting to be held uh to be scheduled for Saturday, November 15, 2025 at 9 p.m.

in the city hall auditorium for the purpose of conducting a recount of the ballast cast for ward one, ward five, and ward six.

That would be November 15th at 9 a.m.

Mr.

Alderman O'Brien.

Did I say that?

You said PM.

That'd be off short.

That'd be a late night.

Well, I'm not a breakfast early person.

So you've heard the motion.

Uh is there discussion on motion?

Saying none?

The clerk please call the role.

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Alderman Moran.

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau.

Yes.

Alderman Lopez.

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

Yes.

Aldwin Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Senate.

Yes.

Paul Wynn Jelly.

Yes.

Baldwin Tebow.

Yes.

Aldwin Clee.

Yes.

Alderman Dowd.

Yes.

Paul Woman Kelly.

Yes.

Almond Wilshire.

Yes.

13 yes, 0 nays.

And that motion carries.

Pursuant to Section 44 of the City Charter.

Alicia Gregg will now come forward to take the oath of office as the new Alderman at large.

Come right up to raise your right hand, please.

Solemnly swear that you will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon you as an alder person at large of the city of Nashville, according to the best of your abilities, and faithfully to the laws and regulations of the city charter and the constitution laws of the state of New Hampshire.

So help you guys.

Thank you.

Alderman Gregg.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Petitions.

None.

Nominate nominations, appointments, and elections.

Appointments by the mayor.

Greeley Park Advisory Committee.

Susan McNamee, new appointment, term to expire November 25th, 2028.

94 Concord Street, National New Hampshire 03064.

Mine Falls Park Advisory Committee, Laura Santier, reappointment term to expire November 1, 2028.

18 Grasmuir Lane, National New Hampshire 03063.

There being no objection, I'll accept the appointments as read and refer them to the Personnel Administrative Affairs Committee.

Reports of committees.

There being no objection, I'll declare the report of the September 22nd, 2025 budget review committee be accepted and placed on file.

There being no objection, I will declare the report of the October 22nd, 2025 joint meeting.

Committee on Infrastructure and Police Commission be accepted and placed on file.

Confirmation of Mayor's appointments.

There being no objection, I'll confirm the following new appointments to the Grilly Park Advisory Committee.

Kathleen Lodi, 12 Bartlett Ave Nashua with a term to expire November 13th, and Richard Smart, 159 Searles Road, Nashville with a term to expire October 14th, 2028.

Are either Ms.

Lodi or Mr.

Smart here with us this evening?

Please come forward to take the uh the oath.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

You raise your right hand, please.

Do you solemnly swear that you will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all of the duties coming upon you as a member of the Greeley Park Advisory Committee, according to the best of your abilities and agreeably to the rules and regulations of the city charter and the constitutional laws of the state of New Hampshire?

So help you guys.

Amen.

And I do.

There being no objection, I'll confirm the following new alternate appointment of Michelle Ernest, 40 Concord Street Nashville, with a term to expire November 11th, 2028 to the Historic District Commission.

This Michelle Ernest here with us this evening.

Please come forward for the oath of office.

And thank you too for your willingness to serve.

Raise your right hand, please.

You solemnly swear that you will faithfully and appropriately discharge and perform all of the duties coming upon you as an alternate member to the historic district commission of the city of Nashua, according to the best of your abilities and agreeably to the rules and regulations of the city charter and the constitution and laws of the state of New Hampshire.

So help you got Nashua Housing and Redevelopment Authority.

There being no objection, I'll confirm the following reappointment of Thomas Monaghan, 28th Swart Terrace National with a term to expire October 14th, 2030 to the National Housing and Redevelopment Authority.

I don't see Mr.

Monaghan in the House.

He will be sworn in at a later date.

Planning board.

There being no objection, I will confirm the new the following new alternate appointment of Benjamin Zoller to Pasadena Ave Nashville with a term to expire November 11, 2028, to the planning board.

Is Mr.

Solar here with us this evening?

Please come forward for the oath.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

You solemnly swear that you will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all of the duties incumbent upon you as an alternate member of the National Planning Board, according to the best of your abilities and agreeably to the rules and regulations of the city charter and the Constitution and Laws of the State of New Hampshire.

So help you guys.

I will.

Thank you.

Treasurer tax collector.

There being no objection, I'll confirm the following appointment of Diane Mulholland for Chesterfield Lane Londonderry with an indefinite term as Treasurer Tax Collector.

Raise your right hand, please.

Do you solemnly swear that you will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all of the duties incumbent upon you as the city treasurer and tax collector of the city of Nashua, according to the best of your abilities and agreeably to the rules and regulations of the city charter and the constitution and laws of the state of New Hampshire?

So help you got.

There being no objection, I'll confirm the following reappointments to the zoning board of adjustment.

Steve Lionel, 19 Cabot Drive, Nashville, with a term to expire September 30th, 2028.

Jay Mencara, 13 Mount Pleasant Street, Nashville with a term to expire September 11, 2028.

Objection, and that's all.

Okay.

Is either Mr.

Lionel or Mr.

Mankara here this evening?

Please come forward for the oath.

And thank you for your willingness to serve.

Do you solemnly swear that you will faithfully and impartially charge and perform all of the duties incumbent upon you as a member of the zoning board of adjustment of the city of Nashua according to the best of your abilities and agreeably to the rules and regulations of the city charter and the constitution and laws of the state of New Hampshire?

So help you guys.

I do.

Thank you.

Unfinished business resolutions.

Second reading of R-25-211 relative to the acceptance of a horse trailer donate to the City of Nashua Police Department by Friends of the Nashua Police Department Mounted Unit.

Alderman Dowd.

I'd like to make a motion for final passage of R 25211 by roll call pursuant to charter section 49.

I'd like to briefly speak to it.

Alderman Dowd.

As you all know, we have a horse unit now in the city of Nashua.

And the trailer is being donated free of charge to the city from the friends of the mounted police.

And we need to accept it as a city property because of liability insurance reasons.

You've heard the motion.

Is there a discussion on the motion?

Seeing none, would the clerk please call the roll?

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Aldwin Gregg.

Yes.

Aldman Rand.

Yes.

Aldman Thibodeau.

Yes.

Perfect.

Alderman Lopez.

Yes.

Aldwin Sullivan.

Yes.

Aldwin Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Senate.

Yes.

Alderman J.

Yes.

Aldwin Tebow.

Yes.

Aldman Clee.

Yes.

Alderman Dowd.

Yes.

Aldwoman Kelly?

Yes.

Baldwin Wilshire.

Yes.

14 yay, 0 nays.

That motion carries and resolution 25211 is declared duly adopted.

Unfinished business ordinances.

Second reading of O-25-056.

Rules for remarks by Alderman at meetings.

Alderman Tivodeau.

Thank you, Madam President.

At this time I'd like to make a motion for indefinite postponement of O25-056 by roll call.

You heard the motion?

Is there discussion on that motion?

Seeing none with the clerk, please call the roll.

Baldwin O'Brien.

Yes.

Aldman Gregg.

Yes.

Alvin Red.

No.

Ald and Tibetau.

Yes.

Alderman Lopez.

No.

Alderman Sulvan.

Yes.

Baldwin Clemens.

Yes.

Baldwin Senate.

Yes.

Alvin Jelly.

Yes.

Baldwin's Hivo.

Yes.

Baldwin Clee.

Yes.

Baldwin Down.

Yes.

Alderwoman Kelly.

Yes.

Alwyn Wilshire.

Yes.

12 years, two nays.

That motion carries an ordinance 2556 is declared indefinitely postponed.

Third reading of O 25-079 prohibiting camping on public property.

Alderman Moran.

Thank you, Madam President.

I would uh like to make a motion to reconsider O25079 by roll call.

And may I speak to it?

Alderman Moran.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um, I'm sure I've spoken to several folks in uh directly or via other channels because we can't all meet as Alderman Jetty points out frequency outside this chamber to discuss uh city business, so that's why we're here uh so we don't want to violate any right to know law so we can discuss it uh right here with everyone listening in.

But um ultimately I was asked by colleagues around this uh horseshoe to uh bring this forward in addition to people that are here in the audience.

Um I had a phone call with uh the president of the United Way, Michael Affelberg about uh the complexities of um trying to get people's tires and wheels fixed on RVs and campers, which we didn't put a enforcement date on.

It was effective, and there's complexities around even considering uh dates on the camping because of the parking ordinances where they're set up.

So I had a um offer to bring it back for a reconsideration uh so potentially another amendment could be made to uh as it was represented to me to at minimum make a motion of to amend to push the data out further on this so that nonprofits and chatters that are here at bear bones minimum can continue to work to get RVs and campers that are still there.

Uh they have not different stories, different uh uh information received, different experiences from different people, different perceptions, but no one's been towed.

Um and at some point it's gonna happen.

Uh and right now all the crisis resources that they have available after already being you know essentially defunded over the last uh 12 months uh for other services uh and limited resources that I already have.

I mean, Mike Alfelberg shouldn't be pulling United Way money to fix someone's tire rims.

Um I mean that's kind of not something you would ever consider.

It's not something the city's not paying, but we're so apt to you know tow it and store it and take it away and pay for it for the sewing.

But it's impacting this current um ordinance that's already in effect because they don't think they have enough time.

Uh they don't think they have enough time to do it all.

And the winter is here, the holidays are here, thanksgiving soon, Christmas is here, and some folks uh may have noticed over the past several months.

I'm a little bit different.

Um, I think I've had uh you very uh exent existential uh religious experience at during the Jubilee and uh taking confession in the Vatican um and then uh experiencing uh all the uh just the experience of that and I'm trying to live it.

I'm trying to make good on my faith, and I'm trying um that actually do what the priest told me for once and one of the things that we talked about is helping the poor, what drove me here because I have my own conflictions with my faith.

And this is what I'm what I'm doing uh because people ask, nonprofits ask, and I don't have a problem with it, and I don't care about being shamed.

I don't care about uh any of that, and then Sky Meadow comes.

Uh such a tragedy, and at that moment, I decided my life is here in Nashua for perpetuity to do what I can do to help.

And um, I know people say it's grandstanding or whatever, but I'm fundamentally changed.

If anyone wants to have a conversation with me about that outside this chamber, be prepared to fight to the death on it.

Theoretically, not literally, okay.

They've expected different from me all the time because I'm just a different person.

But the last since since July and the tragedies that we experienced, and this is the second uh mass shooting that I've experienced in uh two years, and there's so much bigger things happening.

Why does this need to be it?

Why does this need to be it?

Um, and then I could go on any, I could sound paranoid about experiences of faith that I've had since then, even up to watching Sister Act over the weekend with my kids.

Um, and then explaining the the religious fundamentals behind a Christmas carol when we watch Scrooged, the Bill Murray version, the good one.

Uh because I still I've said it here over the past four years, almost every Christmas season.

Um you shouldn't have to be um you shouldn't have to be supernaturally terrorized to help the poor people, okay.

Um, and I know that there's a fundamental belief in how it gets done, community safety, the police.

I do not discredit anyone's version of that.

But at the end of the day, a landlord got a special board meeting to speak directly without a time limit.

A landlord downtown got a special board meeting.

He these folks didn't, and they got three minutes, maybe three minutes at the end, too.

But they didn't have a dialogue and a conversation, a back and forth.

Why this, why that?

There's other resources there uh in the community to do that.

We could have a special board meeting at the COC meeting at eight in the morning, nine in the morning, but we didn't.

So that's another reason.

Uh we can continue to talk about it for as long as I'm here if it's practical.

Um, and I don't mean to offend anybody.

Um, but I just think what why are we doing this in the cold?

You know, we don't have resources to help these folks right now.

And the arguments I've seen on the other side are just as valid and practical.

Those are the theories and arguments that you're you're firm on.

That's fine.

Um, but I want to give these people as much time as possible because unfortunately, it's it's a fact.

A landlord and business owner's got more time with this board.

They got a special board meeting.

The lower income unhoused folks and the nonprofits and charities did not.

That's the power dynamic in the city.

And I'll continue to talk about it to December 31st, 2025 and beyond in the city, as long as there's unhoused, and I'll be here until day I die.

I might not be a Nashua native, but uh this is now my home, and I I'll fight for it the way I think it should be fought for, and I will work together for folks who um oppose that view because at some point there's gonna be a line that crosses that we can realize where we can help each other.

So I appreciate just the consideration of putting it back on the on the agenda.

I understand that people have said the same thing over and over again, but again, the landlords who jack up the rent get the extra time.

You guys didn't, and here we are.

And so I hope we can vote for reconsideration to give my colleagues who want to uh offer an amendment the opportunity to offer amendment.

Thank you.

Alderman Dow.

Yeah, I appreciate all of Norren's compassion and and uh with the people that are involved in this, and because I know he truly has that compassion.

Um most of what you were registered in sounded like 080, not 079, and in my discussions with the police department, if there's some reason that the item can't be moved, they will give them extra time.

Um, but the other thing, I was down at the encampment today, and I think the least compassionate thing we can do is to allow them to have to stay there during the winter without giving them some place inside to get out of the cold and weather.

Those tents are gonna be crushed by the first wet snow we have, and unfortunately it's not too far away.

Um we have places that we could set up for people to be inside, and we're not taking advantage of it.

I don't know why.

Danny Will's the college owner is allowing rentals of those dorms, they're empty.

And one dorm could probably handle most of the people at the Pine Hill Extension, and there's more than one dorm.

I don't know why we couldn't spend the money to lease one of those buildings.

We'd need the infrastructure to take care of the inside.

That's gonna be a lot less expensive than you know, waiting for things to be built.

The other place is Elm Street.

We've got a year or two before we tear down that building.

And there's all kinds of space in that building.

And I brought it up several times, and they said, Well, you know, there's whatever reason.

No, let's get these people inside.

There's this restrooms, there's water, there's heat.

The only place is not heat is the Chestnut Street Gymnasium.

That's a whole other story.

But the rest of the building, even on that first floor, more than enough room if we use that facility.

And my God, if we had to use some of the old classroom space, why not?

I I've heard you know uh it could be difficult when we ask them to move to someplace else, but that's another story.

To me, I was down at the encampment today.

I saw a man sleeping on the asphalt in a parking space in the middle of that the bigger parking lot.

And I looked at all those tents and and a heavy snowstorm, they're gonna crush.

Are we gonna wait till somebody dies?

The police department aren't going in, and they have told me numerous times they're not going to go in and arrest people, especially people that are down in their luck and are just homeless.

But there are people in that encampment that are a danger to the people in the encampment and the city, those are the people they'll go after.

And and they would they have said that they would feel very disheartened if if we reconsider this now.

Um, because they have been called to that site 74 times since our first meeting.

And I have all the reasons, and I'm not gonna read them out, but there are many of them are criminal activities.

Um and they can't respond with one police officer, they have to respond with several because the dangers of the area.

That's dangerous to the people that are living there, too.

So I I you know, we've we've taken some steps, we're looking at risk resource center or the warming center, but we've got to take other actions to get these people inside.

And the reconsideration is not gonna help that one iota.

And usually in my 14 years on this board, the only time we reconsider is there's something drastically changed from the last time we approved the the ordinance, and the only thing that's changed is that site when I went down there today is twice as big as it was when we started this discussion.

So it's getting worse, not better.

So we as a city need to take action to get these people someplace to live inside, not intense waiting for a huge snowstorm or ice storm, you know.

Um and and that can be work with the Department of Health, you know, and and we may have to hire people to be resources that these sites, but let's do something to get these people out of the cold and the wet and out of that area.

If we don't, if if we just push this off, somebody's not gonna make it in that weather.

Somebody's some of these we're gonna next thing we're gonna have is either somebody die or a fire.

Neither one could go to alternative.

So let's just stay the course for right now and take other actions to get these people someplace to live.

Thanks.

Uh, thank you, Madam President.

Um this is never an easy decision, and it's one of my colleagues in the state house referred to um the decision that the um six state sit state, I mean U.S.

Senators made when um they they crossed the line to um open the government.

Um he referred to it as a Sophie's choice, and that's kind of how I feel about this.

It's a Sophie's choice.

Do you help one or do you help the other?

I think the best thing that's come out of this, and there's never a good thing, is that we are all talking, and as my colleague from Ward 2 just stated, yes, we have to do more, and yes, we have to find the housing for these people.

Is it gonna happen before December 15th?

Probably not, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be working as hard as we can.

I've spoken to public health, and I know they are working as fast as they can.

Um the um the bids have come in um recently for the resource center, and they're doing everything they can.

The nonprofits are are banding together as they have been doing.

They've been doing this all along.

Um so the bottom line is there's never a good answer.

Do you help one group, do you help the other group?

Um we look at it as a humane thing to um not leave people out in the cold.

And as my colleague just stated, we have to get them out of the tents.

We have to get them into better places to live in a safer place to live.

And um, as some of the um people spoke as well, is we have to look towards low barrier or no barrier um type of shelters.

That's the only way of helping everybody.

And um, thank you, Madam President.

Walderman Lopez.

Um, to some of the earlier comments made, I think a lot has changed in the last two weeks.

At this point, I feel like I'm living seven years for every day, but we never contemplated a scenario where SNAP would be shut off or that we would be millions of dollars short with our HUD funding.

And I don't know if everybody fully grasps the implications of that.

But the nonprofit organizations that are saving the city money, every single person that the United Way is able to help keep their RV is literally somebody that we're not gonna have to try to dispose of that RV, which was covered in previous meetings.

They're not gonna have endless pools of money to respond to this.

Once we put this into ordinance and this ordinance into effect, you don't unring the bell.

And where it was pointed out that the comments regarding campers and RVs was more germane to 080 than 079.

It was directly stated that the people who are in the RVs that we took ended up in the campsite.

They're not unconnected.

This is a series of dominoes that are being knocked over, and every nonprofit expert is telling you this is not gonna work out the way we want it to.

I don't believe, as Alderman of Ward 4, that we're gonna see a safer community.

I already see campsites being set up and moved around in even more obtrusive areas, and there isn't a solution for that either.

You can give somebody a fine, but that doesn't mean they can pay it, and that doesn't mean you're gonna have a reasonable turnaround for even being able to bring them to court.

So there isn't a disincentive there.

All there is is a blemish on their record months from now when they're trying to get into programs and trying to access supports that they need.

I think we have to accept the reality as a board that these larger regional crises are not going to be solved by the federal government.

I don't think any of us really contemplated that a few of our leaders were gonna basically wring the the death knell of the Affordable Care Act because they want to reopen the government.

These are big things.

They're not just political talking points, they affect people who are unsheltered and people who are low-income and people who may be right now fairly stable but are one medical incident away from being unsheltered and being homeless.

So a lot has changed if you're looking, if you're seeing the things that are happening.

I do think that there are a lot of people that are in need in uh the campsites.

I also think there's a lot of people who aren't in those campsites right now that are unsheltered around the city that are still there, and I don't think that creating a a additional ordinance to police behaviors is gonna do any good when the issues that are being cited and the 70 or so infractions or concerns or complaints that the police have received need to be enforced in the first place.

When the police are saying there are people in there that may be, you know trafficking drugs or you know, public intoxication, disorderly behaviors.

Those are things the police have the ability to intervene on.

And when the fire marshal says, well, there's fire danger, people are having open fires and that kind of stuff, then that needs to be addressed.

But that doesn't mean we need to create a new law that criminalizes people who are not don't have any other options or don't have any other solutions.

I agree with some of the previous speakers that we need to really move on actionable items, like when we have a large building that's still being maintained, and we have at least tonight $300,000 that we probably won't actually need because our led program continued.

We need to put that where it will count, and we need to start looking at immediate solutions because the public health department has been clear that they need a resource center.

They've also been very clear that we don't have enough shelter capacity.

All the nonprofits have been cleared that we also don't have enough capacity.

The hospitals are coming forward and saying, where are people gonna go when they're in crisis and they have nowhere to turn to?

We don't have the capacity either.

We need to actually take resources that we are using for strategic planning or long-term development or infrastructure development and putting them into crisis stabilization methods that we have right now, and we need to start knocking down those barriers.

But how do we start knocking down those barriers when tonight we're adding one?

If we don't even reconsider this, we're not listening to the people who are speaking.

We're complaining about how long it took them to say things.

We're complaining about how many meetings we had to do this, but we all just ran, well, most of us just ran for re-election.

This is the job.

Like we were elected to do this.

And if we're not making sure that we're addressing our our unsheltered people in uh an ethical and effective, pragmatic way, what are we doing?

We're gonna spend all this money on towing RVs in vehicles and trying to play whack-a-mole with large groups of people that we could literally do a better job of intervening with if we are able to continue doing outreach and engaging them with positive solutions.

We're not ca we're not solving the problem, and that's been stated multiple times.

We are exacerbating it.

So I think that needs to be remembered that we're not nobody here is gonna have clean hands when we you know we don't reconsider this or if we don't act on it.

Because the police are advocating for their role and their perspective, which is fine, but they're not the only voice.

And we've been hearing from a lot of other voices.

We need to give them equal respect.

So I think we need to start looking at how these things are actually connected.

And I don't think anybody should underestimate the amount of work that has been done in the last couple of weeks, specifically to try to address these situations.

But if all these nonprofits are pulling together and all this disattention is on that specific campsite, and all these people are are are doing their best to figure out solutions, and they're not getting it done.

What is going to change by spreading that even further?

And by signaling to all of these people that are trying so hard, the city is not a good partner, and it's not going to invest more, and that we're just gonna kick the can down the road.

The truth is the only thing that hasn't changed is we still don't have the resource center, and we haven't even seen an actionable plan for increasing shelter capacity.

So at best we have the promise of in a couple of weeks we might have a place for people to go during the day where they'll have to stay awake before they go to sleep, before they go to a warming station overnight where they'll also have to stay awake, and we still haven't increased any of the solutions that they'll be will be presented to them.

I don't think we should move forward with this, I think we should reconsider it.

And as a point of protocol, this is the time to do it.

You can move to reconsider during the meeting or the next regular meeting, unless somebody at this board thinks we have a chance of suspending the rules and pulling the SUSE maneuver, which if no one's gonna reconsider it, then I don't think there's any chance anyone's gonna suspend the rules.

This is the time to talk about this.

And practically speaking, if we don't talk about this, it's gonna take effect in two weeks.

Thank you.

Turned around there are all these hands up.

I'm gonna start with Alderman um Senate.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um right to the chase.

I am gonna support the uh motion to reconsider.

Um last week at the uh personnel administrative affairs committee.

Um maybe it was I I can't remember.

I'm all off kilter with this odd schedule the past couple weeks.

But regardless, last week I made the comment that I didn't want to see the conversation on this topic stopped now that we passed this uh this ordinance.

And I um it was presented to me that maybe that assertion that that could even happen was ridiculous.

Um to that I would counter and say that there is probably certainly an appetite in this bill in this uh room tonight to say no to this reconsideration and move on to other business.

Um when I when I think of this, and and I think of how we got here, uh a little shy of a month ago, we were presented with this ordinance and and and a desire to push it through that night.

First reading, second reading, a demand for final passage.

And I thought then, and I still think now that putting this before tangible results-driven solutions is putting the cart before the horse, and we're going to trip over ourselves.

On the other hand, we have proposals that are out for first reading, and I know that there are legal uh machinations that require that they go this way, but we have results-driven solutions in the pipeline that are gonna move at a trickle pace.

So we criminalize first, and then we solve the problem down the road.

I recognize that that's how the process has to play out, but the irony can't be lost on anybody in this room.

Solutions later, wipe away now.

And I think that the assertion that this is going to do anything is just ludicrous at this point.

Without a place to go, the encampment on Pine Street extension is going to show up somewhere else, maybe in smaller iterations, maybe in one large iteration, and then we're gonna be focused there.

People don't disappear.

They're not gonna go away in spite of the quiet part being said out loud a couple of weeks ago that people should be looking for out-of-area solutions.

This solves nothing.

I know we say it's not gonna solve the homelessness solution, it's not solving anything.

It's taking out a leaf blower and blowing the problem around and not raking it up and actually putting it somewhere.

I can't believe that we're here.

I can't believe that there's an appetite to say no to this.

Let's reconsider it.

Let's hear the amendments that are being proposed and see what we can do to do better.

Because I don't think we did good.

Almonds.

Almond.

We need to get through this meeting.

It will go much better if we don't applaud.

I understand that you're happy about his speech, but we need to get through the meeting.

Alderman Kelly.

Thank you.

I'll start by saying that I think a lot of the aldermen who spoke before me made the argument for reconsideration.

And I think what a lot of us, whatever side we have been on, understand that the timing just sucks.

It's getting cold.

We all walked in the Veterans Day Parade a couple days ago.

It was snowing.

It was cold.

So we have that timing issue, but also the timing issue that was just talked about that we are putting criminalizing homelessness ahead of actually putting solutions out there.

And even when our sister city Manchester did this, they opened up a shelter.

So when people in that encampment said, Where do we go?

They said, Here's where you could go.

We don't have that solution.

We do not have it.

It doesn't exist.

Go to the COC meeting.

There are not shelter beds.

So I'm not going to repeat myself because we've been asked not to repeat ourselves.

I know everyone knows exactly how I feel, but I am going to tell a story.

After we ended last Tuesday, I had to walk to my car, and because there were so many people here, I had to park on the back side of the garage.

And I walked past a gentleman who I've seen many nights sleeping on the back side of the garage with nothing but a jacket.

And I had to walk by him, and I wasn't scared.

All I could think of was how sad I was that I had failed him.

And yesterday, I was at the Bidda Tour.

We went on a tour of all the places in Nashua that are so beautiful to develop.

And one of the places we went was Pine Street Extension.

And as I was sitting on that bus, I was talking to someone who was living in that encampment who we are going to take her house, her house.

It is a place that she can be outside of those shelters, and we're going to put it on Gilson Road under lock in key and tell her, good luck.

I don't think that's who we are as a city, and I don't think that's who we are as aldermen.

And I really hope you'll reconsider what this decision means in this city.

All right.

Anyone else?

Alderman Jetty.

Thank you.

So previous uh colleagues of um, you know, Alderman Dowd in particular came up with some great ideas about where we could, you know, we we might be able to find places for these people to go, like Danny Webster College and Elm Street.

But then they're not available yet.

And you know, when he also talked about how you know we can't allow people to stay in these tents when the snowstorm might cave them in.

You know, I uh I I think he's true, I think he's correct about that.

But you know, I I I think we have to first find a place for these people to go before we can remove them from where they are now.

That that's my problem with with the current ordinance.

And you know, let me just remind you what what's on our what's on the what's before us right now is a motion to reconsider.

Now a motion to reconsider is in order when someone who voted in favor of something has a change of mind or a change of heart, uh, and and wants to change his mind, wants to reconsider it.

And I think it's just common courtesy for us as a board to allow it to be reconsidered.

You know, we haven't heard you know, there was there was mention of an amendment.

We haven't heard what that amendment is going to be, you know, to just you know not agree to reconsider to allow that amendment to be made to even hear what it's about.

You know, doesn't seem very uh collegial to me.

So I would encourage my colleagues to at least vote to reconsider it, and then let's let's hear what the the amendment that's being proposed might be, and and then you know let's take it one step at a time.

So I encourage people to you know vote to reconsider as a courtesy to the person who has had a change of mind or her.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Aldman O'Brien.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

I wasn't gonna really get in this.

I've heard it before quite extensively in my committee of infrastructure.

I uh had everybody there, you know, city directors and everything else to discuss this issue.

And uh what time did we work until past midnight, just about, you know, pretty close to it.

And uh so we made the recommendation, and then we went to the full board, and it cut, you know, we did have an amendment that was put on that was a little bit lenient to it, and made it amendable that it it did pass the committee.

But when we got to the full board, the police identified that we really can't enforce this as it is written.

And now it seems it's got to be offered with an amendment to write it again.

When do you make the decision to patch the hole in the ship or to abandon it?

How many amendments does this one little thing need?

What I do know is this pesky little document that's called the United States Constitution, and we could give laws to the police, but it's up to them to enforce it.

Just because we as a board approved the camping ordinance, there is a December date to it, the start date.

But I'm sure that they would say, yeah, they would wait.

Yeah, I agree.

Descartes was put before the horse on this.

I would have liked to have the resource center before we had this, but that's not the way it worked out.

But here's the deal.

Okay.

And my you know, experience, when you want help, you gotta put your big boy pants.

You know, I could take you to the meeting.

Wow.

I could take you to the meeting, but you gotta enter over the threshold.

It's tough.

I had to do it in AA, but I'm glad I did.

The thing is, if we choose what we uh consideration of this means we're going back to ground zero.

Ground zero.

And that's not gonna help anybody.

So the thing is, my objective with this and keep it standing, is my hope that it isn't perfect, but it gives us something to work with.

Now, part of the problem was with this board and the committee of infrastructure.

We had grand ideas for the Pine Street extension parking lot.

But you didn't look past your nose, didn't you?

Somebody comes out and says, oh, you're gonna put parking and charge parking at you know, parks.

That's wasn't the intent of the infrastructure committee.

What this place, Pine Street Extension Parkingot would have been, well lit, monitored and everything, and maybe this problem wouldn't existed or been minimal, to say the least, to it.

But we have a problem, and in my 35 years, I mean, I have been punched by administrating Narcane, because I destroy somebody's buzz.

But the thing is this.

But the thing is, you got to get it to the get them motivated to get the help that they seek.

Okay.

And if not, I'll tell you, in my learnings and everything else, and perhaps my good friend that is a therapist can discuss the things of enabling.

It's bad.

And so therefore, I would want to give the help exactly what some of you did say.

But that's getting the help, and we're working in that direction.

But uh reconsider this, we're going back to ground zero, and I don't think that's right.

We work too hard.

Well, we're on the right track here.

Thank you.

Alderman Greg.

Thank you.

I wasn't going to talk tonight, but I think that you know, one thing that we're overlooking a lot of is that, you know, and with all due respect to my my colleague, I worry about saying, well, these people just don't want help or they need to pick themselves up by the bootstraps.

This is not the right thing.

And maybe perhaps this bill continues to be reconsidered and talked about it because it's not the right step.

If it was the right step, it wouldn't have this much friction with it.

I worry about the fact that this seems like a panic move.

We have something that a lot of us do not understand.

We have people that do not have a home.

Well, they have a home.

It's actually in a tent, and we can't understand that.

Part of that is we don't understand the trauma that every single one of them have that has put them in that position.

This is not a choice based on, oh, I'd rather just go live out there.

These are trauma-based things.

People who say, I don't want help.

It's not that they don't want help.

Anybody who works in trauma understands it's because they're tired of failing.

They're waiting for a solution that can be handed to them and looked at.

We have no solutions.

You can't make a punishment without a solution.

You will re-traumatize these people in a way that you might send them completely over the edge.

That can't be fixed anymore.

Our job is to represent every single person in Nashua, whether they have a house, whether they don't have a house, whether they're here working.

We have to represent all of them.

And a lot of the people that currently do have a house could be unhoused.

Are we going to then traumatize them by saying, well, you can't have this one place?

I understand that we have mine falls.

It's my favorite place.

If you saw the forum, that's my favorite place in Nashua.

Um I get to go there.

And I get to walk, and that's like a nice place to go, you know, have the scenery and stuff.

We have people they're fighting to survive, and we have to honor that, and we have to honor what their journey is in that.

And I think we absolutely should reconsider this because we don't have it right yet.

Alderman Uran.

Alderman Moran.

Thank you, Madam President, and thank you to my colleague at large.

Um for your comments.

I appreciate them, uh, especially for your first uh comments at the board.

Um I also appreciate my colleague at large uh his dedication to the city as a firefighter and putting his life in line every day.

He has experienced things that many of us have never needed to experience because he is one of the professions that is out there every day, just like the police, um, but also the nurses, the social workers.

Um I don't have to remind uh the vice president, but I ran uh safe station here in Nashua and the mobile crisis team for a significant period of time.

Uh we I got to know the former chief road so well that he's now my uh insurance salesman for my business.

Uh why he's doing a little side job in retirement.

Uh three o'clock in the morning when the at the time deputy chief calls you uh to say there's someone that's as at the fire station who needs uh uh addiction treatment and there's no one available, you go, whether the program manager, the director or the CEO, oftentimes they would end up at Alderman Lopez's uh uh shelter because we didn't have a place for them to go even with treatment.

Um I've also narced many people.

I carry Narcan with me daily.

I as a crisis clinician I've been uh assaulted, I've been stabbed, uh, I've been um beaten up, well, tried, um, attempted.

Um but those are so rare.

I've done it over over a decade.

It's rare that it happens.

Um and it's part of the job and risk because of the thousands of people that you I've helped in the decade plus I've been doing this, what I'm talking about, three or four experiences.

Um, and I know there's nurses and doctors and others that have been involved as well, but quite frankly, to see someone like Mr.

Keating come up here so frequently over the last 20 plus years, dedicating his life to this, and saying this over and over longer than I've been here, longer than many other people have been here, and there's still limited to no action because we've allowed housing policies to price out the working class who are literally represented in every fashion here, that you have to have someone like me tell you guys that you're selling yourselves out because the next board, when there's filled with a bunch of uh 250k uh white-collar folks, you're next.

You're the next enforcement action that's coming because they don't want you here either.

And that's the type of policies that we have in this city.

limited to no action because we've allowed housing policies to price out the working class who are literally represented in every fashion here that you have to have someone like me tell you guys that you're selling yourselves out because the next board when there's filled with a bunch of uh 250k uh white collar folks you're next you're the next enforcement action that's coming because they don't want you here either and that's the type of policies that we have in this city we're pricing everybody out and the working class people around this board are doing it to themselves because maybe you can sell your house and move to another distant off land of Florida or whatever but who would leave them behind when you turn that property over to someone who can easily afford it because the nurse the doctor now I'm sorry the nurse the physician's assistant the social workers firefighters can't afford to live in the city that they serve this is a constant problem with like places like Boston and Burlington you price people out high income owners live there and who has to get on that commuter rail to come serve all those people the healthcare workers the service workers the IT techs because where are they coming from outside of the places that they've been priced out to live and then what happens next migration right they get priced further further out further out of course we need a communal rail right we need to commute all those people and migrate them to serve the wealthy.

I am the wealthy and you guys are selling yourselves out and stuff like this is doing it.

I got to peer into the side of the wealthy they could care less about you and they could care less about me.

I got the peer they don't want me there they don't want people who pull themselves through by chance from homelessness and poverty food stamps unemployment etc to get to where we are because we talk like this when you grow up in poverty homeless in housing you talk like this they don't want to hear you talk like this they want to use Mason's rules decorum all these other policies that they put in place to silence you and this is just one of those silences because if it's not the house you folks are next in one way or another it may not be that you're being criminalized but what are we gonna have people just evicted moved on moved out and next thing you know people have called this place their home for generations they'll be living uh I don't know Colebrook maybe that's probably the next affordable place to live thank you Alderman Dowd just two quick things um the current legislation says that on December 1st thing you I believe 15 days if I'm not mistaken it's a month from now two things one I'd like to believe that we could do something with Elm Street or or Danny Whipsta College in a month and we may need the help of some of the uh organizations that are willing to help to set things up but it would give these people someplace inside that's warm and safe uh just leaving them there I know they have their tents a home but their tent could be destroyed by a heavy storm um and I I'm pretty sure in knowing the police department if if we said that hey we're working on something and there'll be a place for them to go if you hold off a little bit that they would and and you know if they don't uh we can do something else but um and the other thing is I I heard that somebody's talking about we bring it up for reconsideration because there are amendments I'd like to get an idea what those amendments are at least in general and are we thinking of making these amendments to the motion and keeping it in place with the amendments or doing away with it entirely makes a big difference Alderman Moran and then Alderman Lopez to all the men down and maybe Alderman Lopez is a better person to answer this but uh one of the thoughts that was proposed to me on was doing it immediately following the holidays uh January 2nd uh keep it in effect but the effective date similar to what Alderman Senate had proposed uh was just an option uh the discussed whether that comes forward um there could be others but um that was one that kind of come that struck out to me a practical one Lopez so it was commented earlier um that maybe someone with a therapy who's a therapist could comment on enabling and um the reference was made that you can bring a person to the threshold but they have to cross it has been stated repeatedly we do not have a threshold there is not a place for people to go to all of the shelters are capacity the transitional housing programs are full the warming station hasn't even come online and we're literally already counting the cold weather emergency overflow beds that we all only have had those for years because more things happen in the winter too and it's more dangerous for people to be out.

We do not have a threshold for people to cross at this time, and it's not enabling somebody to recognize that you can't push them somewhere where they can't go.

It's showing compassion, sure, but it's also restraining yourself from being terrible.

There's not you can't enable somebody if they're not willing to take a choice they don't have.

Um I won't comment further on that because as a therapist, I wouldn't necessarily try to apply enabling to scatter shot a hundred people who have very different circumstances in very different situations.

That is a point that's been made time and time again, too.

Is these are not all the same people, they're not all criminals, they're not all substance users.

They have very different stories in very different situations, and that's what public health has been trying to do.

And all of these nonprofits, the nonprofits aren't even all the same organization.

They all do different specific missions to address specific populations, and they're all affected very unequally by changes in public policy, which is right now really, really unwelcoming to anybody.

So I don't think there is a threshold for people to cross into.

I don't think we can look for any better angels in the near term.

And I don't want to be unfairly critical, but it was also mentioned that earlier this year an attempt was made to put parking meters into Pine Street Extension to light it up.

I pointed out at the time we can light that parking lot up anytime we want to.

We have that in the budget.

We don't need to put parking meters in front of Greater National Mental Health, in front of churches, uh, in front of Hearts Peer support, and start charging people for the the I guess the opportunity to have lights.

But what was evident is there's a lot of development happening in that area.

Nimco has been pulled down and we're putting in a new housing program.

That same developer also bought another building in the media area.

Biden is giving tours of that area because they want to develop it.

It's what they do.

So it doesn't take a genius to realize that that area is is very interesting to people with money and people with resources.

We don't have a solution for homelessness right now.

We don't even have a compassionate contingency plan for what to do if the police do go out and try to do any part of their job.

What we do have is a lot of people who would love for legislation and ordinances and political support to allow for more areas to be developed, and that's not gonna make mine fall any nicer as an area.

It's not gonna make our community any safer over the next couple of months.

You saying we didn't see past our noses is kind of silly because I'm legally blind.

I can barely see past my nose, and I could see where that was going.

So I am concerned about the belief that over the next couple of weeks we could suddenly I guess meet those three ghosts, see the the spirit of Christmas and open up a large-scale shelter, because we haven't been doing that.

I pointed out two years ago when Stepping Stones uh had to close its doors that that location was zoned for emergency shelter capacity, and I pointed it out to multiple city departments, and the answer I got was that is not where they would like it to be.

Not public health, other city departments.

And I pointed out a couple dozen times that the police uh training facility had electricity and water, and we could put the if we couldn't use the building itself, we could have put the portable classrooms, and that wasn't what we wanted to do with it either.

I don't have this optimism and this bottomless hope that things will change in a month.

But if there's way more effective leaders than me around this horseshoe, then please take a step forward because it's needed now more than anything.

What I do see right in front of us is whether we should reconsider this, and I think we should.

We should be listening to the public that's coming out and telling us this isn't a great idea.

We should be listening to the partners that we have, the professionals that we have.

I mean, Sue Mead has been working for 40 years in the doing homeless outreach, and we're just gonna okay.

Well, your three minutes is up, thanks for your time, but it's late.

We need to start listening to these people because they aren't just making this up because they're do-gooders or social justice wars, it's because they know what they're talking about.

I think there's plenty of grounds for reconsideration.

Alder Woman Kelly.

I'm gonna hold for now.

Okay.

Motion before us is for reconsideration of ordinance 25079.

Would the clerk please call the roll?

Alderman O'Brien.

No Baldwin Gregg.

Yes, Alden Ryan.

Yes, Aldwin Tivodeau.

No Aldwin Lopez.

Yes, Alderman Sullivan, no one Clemens.

No Baldwin Sonnet.

Yes, Baldwin Jelly.

Yes.

Alderman TiVo.

No.

Alderman Klee.

No.

Alderman Dowd.

No.

Alderman Kelly.

Yes.

Alderman Wilshire.

No.

Six Yes, eight and nays.

And that motion fails.

New business resolutions.

Yeah.

Um.

I would just like to say that I I think we ought to go criminalize the new one.

I think that we need to start working on finding a place for these people inside as fast as possible.

And I think we need to work on the money for the resource center as fast as possible.

We need to check with legal counsel, but I believe we could have a second reading.

There's nothing on the floor.

Right.

First reading of R-25-214 relative to the supplemental appropriation of $59,499 of unanticipated revenue from the United States Internal Revenue Service into the Capital Equipment Reserve Fund.

Additional sponsors Alderman O'Brien.

Was that Alderman Clemens?

Alderman Clemens.

Alderman Moran.

Given it's first reading, I'll send that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday, November 24th, 2025 at 7 p.m.

in the Aldermanic Chamber.

First reading of R-25-215 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 3 million of assigned fund balance into fund 7074 special education expendable trust fund.

Additional sponsors, Alderman O'Brien, Alderman, Greg, Alderman Moran, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Senate, Alderman Clee, Alderman Dowd, Alderman Kelly, and myself, given its first reading, I'll assign that to the budget review committee, and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday, November 24th, 2025 at 7 p.m.

in the Aldermanic Chamber.

First reading of R-25-216 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 300,000 of assigned fund balance into anticipated fund 7090 resource center expendable trust fund.

Additional sponsors, Alderman O'Brien, Alderman Gregg, Alderman Moran, Alderman Lopez, Alderman Sullivan, Alderman Clemens, Alderman Senate, Alderman Tebow, Alderman Clee, Alderman Dowd, Alderman McKelly, and myself.

Given its first reading, I'll sign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of Alderman public hearing on Monday, November 24th at 7 p.m.

in the Aldermanic Chamber.

First reading of R-25-218 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 1.5 million of assigned fund balance into fund 7026 capital equipment reserve fund.

Additional sponsors.

Given it's first reading, I'll assign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday, November 24th, 2025 at 7 p.m.

in the Aldermanic Chamber.

Mr.

Clerk, you missed 2017.

Okay.

Sorry.

Um that's good.

First reading of R-25-217 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 220,000 of assigned fund balance into fund 7080, police overtime expendable trust fund.

Additional sponsors.

Alderman O'Brien, Alderman Sullivan, Alderman Tivo, Alderman Dowd, and myself.

Given its first reading, I'll assign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of Alderman public hearing on Monday, November 24th at 7 p.m.

in the Aldermanic Chamber.

First reading of R 25-219 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 1.5 million of assigned fund balance into fund 6600 benefits self-insurance fund.

Additional sponsors.

Alderman O'Brien.

Alderman Clee.

First reading of R 25-220 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 200,000 of assigned fund balance into Department 194 contingency account 70100 general contingency for the intended purpose of covering expenses to clean up Main Street in the river fronts.

Additional sponsors Alderman O'Brien Alderman Tivo Alderman Clee and myself a few minutes first reading I'll assign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of Alderman public hearing on Monday November 24th 2025 at 7 p.m in the Aldermanic chamber.

First reading of our 25-221 relative to tax deed and property auction.

Additional sponsors Alderman O'Brien Alderman Clee given it's first reading I'll sign that to the committee on infrastructure and the planning board.

First reading of R25-222 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 325000 of assigned fund balance into Department 194 contingency account 70100 general contingency for the intended purpose of covering community development block grant and lead program expenses due to the federal government shutdown.

Additional sponsors Alderman O'Brien Alderman Moran Alderman Sullivan Alderman Dowd given its first reading I'll sign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday November 24 2025 at 7 p.m in the Aldermanic chamber.

First reading of R25-223 relative to the supplemental appropriation of $95,784 and four cents assigned fund balance into grant project activity 1092 fiscal year 2020 lead paint hazard control grant.

Additional sponsors Alderman O'Brien Alderman Moran Alderman Tibo and myself given its first reading I'll sign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday November 24th 2025 at 7 p.m in the aldermanic chamber first reading of R 25-224 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 9000 of assigned fund balance into capital project activity police department roof repair and replacement additional sponsors alderman O'Brien Alderman Tebow Alderman Clee Alderman Doubt and myself given its first reading I'll assign that to the budget review committee and schedule a special board of alderman public hearing on Monday November 24th 2025 at 7 p.m in the Aldermanic chamber new business ordinances.

First reading of O 25-082 regarding proposals for the development of city owned real property additional sponsors alderman Lopez given it's first reading I'll assign that to the personnel administrative affairs committee new business motions oh alderman moran it's me again you again yes as always I say that with jest um I'd like to make a motion to refer the proposals of the development and sale and disposition of property at Elm Street Middle School to be referred to the Board of Health for a recommendation to the Board of Alderman on which proposal Penrose or LMG is best suited to meet the four pillars of housing approach by roll call and if I could speak to it Alderman Moran uh thank you madam president as you know the Board of Health is the only board with 100% control of um the the Board of Alderman we have complete control in who's appointed to that board and they just issue advisory opinions that's it they look at what um may be sent to them by this board for a further review this particular one would be the four pillars of housing and they make an advisory opinion back is there let's say uh precedent for the board of health to do such a thing yes there is uh the mass mandates on the cratom research that just came through and that we heard and amended based on their uh recommendations do you have to follow what the board of health advises absolutely not because Alderman Moran one of the first things I did was move to vacate the mask mandate despite the advisement of the Board of Health I feel that as we are having the conversations about housing and the recent um landslide of the uh question one that involved the Board of Public Health that we should make more of an effort to involve them in matters that are so important to the city like housing and as I was meeting with uh Congresswoman Goodlander and Henry Och at Harbor Care who's also on the Board of Health who I also voted for we're talking about housing at health care.

So it seems like it's a practical uh approach, a reasonable approach, precedent for it, and urgent because COVID was very urgent.

Kratom wasn't as urgent though as on house homelessness and the policies of um that we're currently implementing in the city that uh makes one of Nashua's largest employers, hybrid care, uh not be able to allow their um employees to work and live here because they can't afford it.

Rather prior prior prioritizing different types of employers.

Um and when I say folks uh that need to be considered, we need to look more at the 60 percent AMI people, and I think the Board of Health is in a position to do that.

It can start here, they can continue it the next term, and you can take as long as you want, and you could say there could be an argument coming forward that says, well, they're they they're not gonna get anything done next month.

But just last week, as on the finance committee, I voted to support an Elm Street um what is it, survey or something?

Uh that won't come out until next board anyways.

So we aren't gonna have the information to make the final decision no matter what.

What would it hurt to just send this to the Board of Health and get some scientific research on whether one is better than the other in a small faction of the overall picture of who is uh best suited to address the four pillars of housing of the two's proposals, and I'd ask that you support it.

Alderman Clemens.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

I'm gonna stay off camera because my um internet connection has been uh iffy tonight.

Um not as bad as last time though, so that's good.

Um I I I agree with colleague had just said in regards to why the Board of Health should look at these proposals.

However, um I think it's a little premature, and the reason I is because we do need to understand what we're gonna do with the Keefe Auditorium on that property uh and whether or not we're going to move forward in some fashion with that, or if that's going to be redeveloped, or you know, there's a there um I think um this is something that I would absolutely entertain as we get more of a uh understanding of what we're doing with the entire property, um, because I do think that whatever we end up doing at the Keefe is going to have some impacts maybe on the way that those proposals um our are um were presented to us.

So uh with that being said, I I I love the idea, I love the concept of it, and I'm sure that you know uh um if this doesn't pass tonight, I I encourage uh Alderman Moran to poke me and I will make the same motion further down the road.

But as far as um sending it there tonight, I in particular cannot support that at this time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The only thing I appreciate my colleague at large comments, and I'm I'm not um looking to uh disparage or anything like that, so don't take this as uh anything other than uh just uh general comment on the time it takes to do the research.

As we saw with the Kratom, it took about six to eight months.

Um if that does becomes something that the next board wants to entertain, it could slow the project down further.

And it is practical to begin the research, and if you that um survey uh study, that's the word, um, comes back and says um whatever that uh the board wants to vote on, that can too can be sent to the board of health to review, but I need everyone to understand, and I do appreciate my colleagues' uh comments, the research is time consuming.

The earlier the better.

Research and data is as Director Badley is here can explain, is it's it's it's a time intensive uh to look at different studies, relate them back to a size and city like Nashua, demographic-wise, um, and make a reasonable recommendation.

This is not a study of this virus kills, and we need to do this now.

This is a thoughtful way of look reviewing literature, research, and practice.

Um, and it's just very time consuming.

And just hearing that you or others would bring it back next, it just could further delay a project that's so vital uh to the city, and uh I hope the better the better effort and time that they have to hit the ground running if this is something the board wants to do, uh they need as much time as possible because uh at some point someone's gonna say the developers need an answer, they need to put money down, and no one at that time, I see Dr.

Cummings smiling, he knows.

He knows no one at that time is gonna remember that Alderman Moran from previous term um made this motion because it quite frankly it was too little too late at that point.

Um I don't know if we should get it that far, but I would you know I still would certainly poke him for not just for that for other things and non-political things.

I would definitely go out to uh to dinner.

My wife and I uh Ben and Ashley I do time, uh so I'll be poking them about other stuff, but um I think the best time uh is to do it now.

I'm sorry, thank you.

Let's make poke again.

Alderman Lopez.

Um I would just ask um, I guess either Alderman Clemens or Alderman um Greg, um, because she's on the committee.

Is something fundamentally different about the Keefe Auditorium?

Because I thought we'd literally put it into an ordinance or a resolution that we would be planning for that to be there, and I don't know if I missed something Alderman Clemens.

No, you didn't miss anything.

Um, but if if at the end of the day we do all the studies and do everything, and then we're the board decides that we're gonna count, then you know, I think you've got another large space on that property, and I don't know how that changes the design plan.

And that's really my only thought.

I do hearing hearing about the tiny aspect of it though, um has changed my mind, and I I will support the motion uh tonight.

So as you can see, sometimes change people.

Um thank you.

I so one of the things we're working on that Cape Commission is is what does that look like and what do we need?

And unfortunately, um you know, if we can build out a theater that that works for the community, um we're gonna need certain things like parking and stuff.

So that will actually start to change things, and I think we've invested right now in you know going through with a plan to look at what that would look like and what that cost is.

So I actually think it would be good to wait a little bit.

Um the um the commission is uh really committed in this next month to getting together with the developer and making sure they know what we would need for the theater and kind of what that would look like, because as it stands right now with the four walls it has and the very small footprint it has is not really conducive to a functioning uh theater unless we diminish the size, which that's kind of part of the point of the Keefe.

So there is gonna need to be some expansion outside of what that footprint I think is right now.

That's just my guess.

This is not an expert opinion, but just based on what we're talking about.

I think it would be good since we already have that in process.

If we get too many things in process, I think it could confuse matters.

Anyone else you've spoken twice.

I know.

Um if I may you may I would be remiss seeing Director Bagley and uh fearing that uh what I said may be taken politically.

Um if I'm not sure if she could confirm um or deny uh the time it takes to review research literature, especially when it um when it's something so um niche called for this any comment on the last one.

I'm sorry.

Good evening, Bobby Backley, Director of Division of Public Health and Community Services.

It does take a while to go through um document research best practices, so it's not something that could be turned around relatively quickly if we want to do a really good job with it.

Thank you.

Is there further discussion on that motion?

Seeing none, would the clerk please call the roll?

Alderman O'Brien.

No.

Aldwin Greg.

No.

Aldman Rand?

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau?

Yes.

Aldwin Lopez.

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

No.

Aldwin Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Sennet?

Yes.

Alwyn Getty?

Yes.

Albin Tebow?

No.

Alderman Clee.

Yes.

Alderman Dowd?

No.

Altwoman Kelly?

No.

Aldman Wilshire?

No.

Seven years, seven days.

That motion fails.

Okay.

Period for general public comment.

We have a few people signed up.

Miss Lee, it looks like she's already left for the evening.

Bob Keating.

Bob Keating, five uh Coburn Woods Drive.

Just want to highlight that I think there's a consensus here about that we need to do more.

Um and we need to do a focus other ways.

We've spoken about you know most of you more about the overall budget, but we have 360 million dollars.

Tonight there was millions of dollars of uh supplementary approach appropriations that were uh directed to certain areas.

And I think that's an impetus to be able to look what we can do.

I mean that there are things from Elm Street uh to uh Daniel Webster that have been discussed, as I said earlier, permanent housing is what it was what our plan was 21 years ago.

That's ending homelessness.

All the other things are important to get out of the elements and help people on their ways, but they're not permanent housing.

So whatever we do, try to keep in that direction.

Uh so that would be the what I would hope.

In terms of specific things, that we clearly have the warming station.

That's incredible, because that could that can uh have a lot of people go there, uh maybe all of them that that would want to could be other could be contained in there.

I do have a caution that the health department that the their idea about the longer term uh program in in terms of a permanent place.

I think if I were to vote today, that I would see that this as more helpful than the $300,000 for the the day program, and that's most of the feedback because when we get to May when the warming station closes, that then we're gonna be back in that situation that we have much less place for people to you know to go.

So I don't know all this stuff, and and but uh if if I was saying the choices is permanent um and overnight um uh is more needed here in the uh in the community.

And I'm gonna think in long term is that we have uh a next budget coming up, and that if we put one percent of the budget there toward um more permanent solutions, that would be 3.6 million dollars.

Um we if we looked at moving toward 2% over a period of time, you double the numbers.

If we looked at for a capital fund, we we found 21 million dollars that we bonded for the uh the arts center.

I think we need to think along those kinds of lines for uh for the most challenged in our community uh for capital nine.

So thank you again for all that.

I thought it was you know a important what what has continued to go here, and I hope that we take what's happened with the encampment and to move us forward to really come to better solutions for what are the people in our community need.

So thank you, Gail Oisington.

Gail.

Okay, Paige Bochman.

Here?

Okay, Zabrina.

Also not here?

Okay, Bobby Bagley.

Bobby Bagley, Director for the Division of Public Health and Community Services.

And I just wanted to uh speak to the um R 2521 5 that is listed under the supplemental appropriations and ask that this is considered as a positive for us to move forward with getting the funding that will be needed from the um to get assigned into the fund balance for us to start this uh resource center, so we need to have the funding to get that in place.

We do know that a resource center is not going to uh end homelessness, but this does give us the opportunity to have a place where we can meet people where they are uh during the course of the daytime, have our community partners, as you've heard so many from uh talk about supporting this effort as well.

So this will give us an opportunity to start uh looking at some uh solutions for right now until we get to uh more permanent long-term solutions to address the housing issues that we are uh being challenged with within our community.

So I do ask that that will be strongly considered uh for passage onto this list of um supplemental appropriations.

Thank you, Latanya Mussioli.

Good evening, Latony Mussioli Housing Services Officer with the Division of Public Health and Community Services.

Similarly to Director Bagley, um, I want to thank this board for taking the time to consider the supplemental appropriation for the resource center.

Um I truly believe that it's something that our community needs, and I do think it's a step in the right direction to support our unhoused population and allowing them to work with service providers, be indoors, stay warm, get away from the elements, um, and just have an opportunity to move forward.

So I just wanted to say thank you.

Okay.

Yes, yes, thank you, Madam President.

Tim Cummings, Director of Administrative Services.

I apologize.

I may have missed it, but uh on the agenda that we have here, we have R2521 relative to the supplemental appropriation of 148,000 dollars.

Did that get approved this evening and did I miss it?

Mr.

Gary, okay.

It did.

Yes, okay.

Great, thank you.

Okay, that ends our public comment.

Remarks by members of the board.

I'll start over here.

I'll only say that it's an honor to serve the people of Nashua and with all of you.

So thank you.

Thank you for stepping up to do so.

Alderman Lopez.

Um I just want to start by expressing my condolences to the family of Gloria Timmons.

Um, and the many, many, many, many friends and lives that she touched throughout uh Nashua.

She will be missed.

Um, and I welcome my colleague uh Alderman Greg.

I know it's not easy sitting in the chair of somebody who's passed tragically, um, but uh it did occur to me as she was remarking on that um elsewhere that we're all sitting in somebody's chair, and we're all trying to take on the legacy and the heritage of the other aldermans that came before us.

That's not easy.

So tonight was particularly difficult for me.

This is really one of my tent pole issues as alderman, um, and I think everybody here knows that.

Um I I think everybody knows I'm not gonna stop here.

Maybe this particular avenue is closed, but I am dedicated to trying to help people wherever I can, uh, particularly the unhoused and um any anyone who's willing to or interested in in making tangible um efforts along those uh lines.

I would welcome the support um and the opportunity um to work with you.

Um I will invite all the board of alderman members to attend continuum care meetings.

Um it is not a hostile group.

They're very happy to see people, they're very happy to share the information they have, and as dark as it can seem tonight, looking at all the things we couldn't do, the continuum care is constantly showing us what we can do, and they're showing us how many people are housed, how many people are sheltered, how many people are moving on to housing and to other programs.

So I encourage people to to consider that and and to get involved.

Um one of my colleagues has mentioned that he really thinks it's important for us to move forward with a concrete plan for uh standing up uh more shelter capacity.

Um, and I would I would welcome that opportunity.

Um I know Director Bagley has done research in that area.

Um I as was pointed out uh manage the safe station program, which was a similar time of year.

We stood that up during the opioid crisis, the weekend of Thanksgiving, which is why I happen to know it's the longest weekend of the year where programs are closed, and it's important to have some institutional knowledge, and that's available through many of the organizations that are present.

And I would definitely offer myself as a resource if there's any help needed in trying to figure out how to organize staffing policies or rules or or that types of type of thing.

If there's more ways that I can help, then I'm definitely willing to step forward.

Thank you.

Alderman Sullivan.

Uh, thank you.

I have a few things.

Uh I wanted to uh I I don't know, it's for me it's a funny story, it's a great memory that I have of Alder Alderman Timmins.

Um there was one time she was uh uh holding a sign out at um Ward 9, and I don't know, I don't know what what election it was, but I went to vote and I was you know in a hurry, and I ended up uh sitting there chatting with her for about a half hour.

Um, and it was great, and it was the most time I had spent with her uh ever because she always sat either uh opposite of me or far away from me, and I never had the opportunity to to chat with her, and I have to say that that uh was the first memory that I thought of uh when I heard the news.

Um but congratulations to uh Alderman Greg.

Welcome to the horseshoe.

Um look forward to working alongside of you.

And um last weekend, I think it was last weekend.

Nashua was was the center of the boys' soccer championship as uh Nashua South played Bishop Girton.

I reminded my kids all the time when they played high school sports, and and most student athletes.

Most student athletes don't even get to play in a state championship, never mind win a state championship.

So I think it's it's a great honor for both of those teams.

Uh but I do have to say congratulations to the Bishop Burton Cardinals for winning triple overtime, very exciting.

And then I think this weekend we move on to football.

So great, great sports.

Love to see the high school rivalries uh uh come about in the city.

I think that's great.

We need more of it.

Um this past Tuesday was Veterans Day.

Nashville Rotary Club held its first ever veterans uh breakfast uh downtown.

We had about 70 people, plus minus.

Uh so we were really happy uh about the turnout.

So uh Alderman Jetty and myself um we uh I ate pancakes, a lot of pancakes before the before the parade.

I don't I didn't see you eat any, but um okay, so I had yours.

Uh so it was good.

Uh but it was a good event and looking forward to uh your number two next year.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Alderman Clemens.

Uh thank you, madam president.

Um wanted to welcome uh Greg.

Um welcome to the horseshoe, and I look forward to uh working with you.

I did want to um of course mention that I am extremely upset about the loss of um Alder Woman Timmins.

She was a friend.

She was uh a very um resource really for me.

Um for just different different things over the years that you know, particularly when she was on this on the board of education.

I I would go to Alder Woman Kimmings to ask questions about what was going on there and and and different things.

I'll just miss her her candor.

And so my won't is um go out to her uh family.

I did want to mention um the election.

I thought that um it was uh very well.

I want to thank um Dan Healy for running and doing a great job, and really all the election workers across the city.

I thought they um they did an excellent job, and of course the work's not done.

We'll um this Saturday uh I will be there and we'll all be there to do the recounts and and um we'll put a final stamp on this election, hopefully that day.

Um lastly, I want to thank all of my colleagues here on the board for their generosity in my time of need uh with my my wife's illness and her hospitalization.

And your generosity as well did not go unnoticed by my wife and I, and it really shows me how blessed I am to have all of you as colleagues and friends.

So thank you all.

Thank you, Madam President.

Yeah, I mean, I I couldn't possibly get through this portion without uh talking about Alderwoman Timmins.

Um like many of my colleagues, I probably have innumerable memories of her.

Um, but in the immediacy of learning that news, I didn't have one that jumped to mind.

It was actually my wife that uh recounted a story from 2023.

I can't recall if I was already officially running or if it was just the worst kept secret in Nashua.

Um we ran into Alderwoman Timmins at the Multicultural Festival at the Nashua Public Library.

That was the first opportunity my wife had to meet her.

And Gloria was instrumental in those early days in helping me recognize what the job was and come to the conclusion that I had the capability to be here sitting amongst you.

And that's not confidence I carry with myself ever.

If you ever want to look up self-doubt in the dictionary, my picture is right there.

Um but we we ran into Gloria and we got to talking, and she got to meet my wife, and she got to meet my son, which lit up her day.

And Jessica made a comment along the lines of well, if Tim wins, and Gloria got that look that I'm sure we've all seen before, that glare.

And she told her, and these are her words, not mine.

She said, it's not if Tim wins, it's when he wins.

And that's what Jessica brought up in the immediacy of learning that Gloria had passed.

And I don't know, if if that's your story and you that can't put a smile on your face, I don't know what can.

Um so we will deeply, deeply miss Gloria and send our most heartfelt condolences to her family, who she loved more than life itself, I think.

Um I wanted to touch upon some items that we heard in the public comment tonight.

Um the conversation that we've been engaged in has uh had at least some adjacency, both from folks in the public and here in the horseshoe to spirituality, faith.

Um and that's not a grand a grand part of my life, but I was raised that way.

Um and I remember, I remember a lot of what I learned in those days, and I I think we we kind of go to the buzz phrases, love thy neighbor.

What I remember about Love Thy Neighbor, the Sermon on the Mount, was that one of the people hearing those words sought to clarify who was my neighbor.

And the response was met with the uh the parable of the Good Samaritan, the emphasis that my neighbor is whoever is in need.

And so that's what I'm left with thinking tonight.

I don't know if we've demonstrated love thy neighbor to the best of our capabilities.

I also wanted to talk about the top topic of pulling oneself up by the bootstrap.

Somebody came up during public comment and shared their experience with broaching homelessness and recounted the fact that they were fortunate enough to avoid that by the skin of their teeth simply due to privilege, due to luck.

But be in the same boat.

Um my wife and I brought our first home in 2013 after we paid down what had seemed for years insurmountable debt.

Maybe we'd gone into after losing four jobs on my front in 2008, and really breaking out the credit cards just to survive, which for those of you listening looking for financial advice, the worst way to do it.

Um we had a little left over.

The only reason we were able to do those things is because my father-in-law passed away at the age of 58, maybe seven months before my wedding.

And I I have to remind people this all the time because a lot of people look at the situation that I was in then really, really poor.

And the situation that I'm in now.

And they tell me, Oh, well, you guys pulled yourself up by your bootstraps.

No, we didn't.

And I know that I'm not just speaking for myself tonight when I say that if we had the opportunity to get Nick back and trade it all, we'd do it in a heartbeat.

And that's how adjacent we were to that situation, and that's why I feel so strongly about it.

Because it really, you know, when you look at those situations at their bare bones, it could be any of us.

So I'll leave that there, and I will conclude by saying, welcome.

It's my new colleague, Alderman Gregg.

Um I joked earlier tonight that since Alderman Moran left us for uh greener pastures in Ward 9.

Ward 7 is back at the table.

And I'm so thrilled to see you here.

I thought you have already given us a shining peek into the sort of alderman that you're gonna be.

So I'm looking forward to working with you.

Welcome.

Alderman Tebow.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um the first thing I want to say is the resource center.

That would not have been on the table if we didn't if the mayor didn't put these uh ordinances out there.

It was buried, and it's been buried for a while.

Now it's coming out, and and we're gonna work on it.

It you know, it's not gonna come out tomorrow, but at least we got some things in the works to start to get it moving.

So um that's a positive that's come out of this this uh these ordinances that we are looking forward to going.

Otherwise, it was buried, it was not gonna come out.

We were gonna do the same stuff we've always done every year, and at least now we're moving in a in I think a better direction, at least when it comes to the resource center.

Um I want to welcome Alder Women at Large Greg.

I don't know what name you're gonna go by.

Uh I'm just going by the tag right now, and um is gonna be Alder Woman at large or Alderman.

I don't know.

It's Alderman or just Alicia.

No, well, no, no.

Alderman, Alderman Greg, thank you, and uh welcome to uh the board.

Very exciting to have you uh aboard.

Um the Veterans Day Pancake, the Veterans Day parade was amazing, as always, it was extremely cold, uh, but it was a good turnout from elected officials, and uh and my son got to volunteer over at the Veterans of the Pancake Breakfast, so that was great.

Um so lastly, obviously, Gloria.

I I got to sit next to Alderwoman Timmins for two years at the corner here, and I was our only neighbor for those two years, other than maybe attorney Bolton occasionally.

Um, and he she still had a shout over to him.

But uh, you know, she was a friend.

Uh you know, it's it's heartbreaking to hear this news.

I I coached with her son Al and her three grandkids were on that team, and um I always asked her to come and watch her grandkids play, and she said no because she was a curse, and um I always got a kick out of that.

I always tried to get her to go to watch her kids play.

I'm like, they're so good, you gotta watch them play.

We're not gonna lose, but she she wouldn't, she wouldn't go.

But she was an advisor to me those first two years, a mentor.

Um the things she had to go through when she was on the board of ed, some of the things that happened over there was just terrible, and she fought through it, and she's just an amazing woman.

Um, my thoughts go out to her family.

Uh, and you know, it's been hard for me the last couple weeks.

I think about her every day.

I'm gonna miss her.

I'm gonna miss her call.

She's one of the few people that could call me and yell at me, and I wouldn't get mad about her yelling at me because she was probably 100% right.

Um, she kept me in check a lot of the time those first two years with uh a hand on my arm or a whisper in my ear.

Um now Trisha has to do it.

Alderman Clee has to do it.

So but um I'm gonna miss her, and uh that's all I can say.

Thank you.

Alderman Clee.

Uh thank you, Madam President.

Um, Madam President, I did not raise my hand for 025218, and I would like to be a sponsor of that um of that ordinance.

And I I would also like to uh welcome our newest member, um, Alderman Greg.

Uh I know it's not easy to have to fill the role of someone who has passed, but we both know she was one of the first people to approach you to run, so it seems fitting that the person who's gonna sit in her seat would be you.

Um she wanted you desperately, so I think that's a fitting seat, and I think you'll do a phenomenal job just based on today.

Um, and when I gave when I teased you about that you weren't gonna make the next one, you immediately went in and found out about the zooming, so it's nice to hear that you will be here, even if you'll be out of town.

So I think that that just shows um how committed you are to this.

Um I'd also like to send my condolences to uh Gloria's family.

Um she was an incredible Alder Woman.

She um when she first got voted in, she called me and said to me, Um, can I look to you for um advice and so on?

And I went, I'm not sure I'm the right person, but I'm always happy to answer any questions, and um oftentimes we debated after a vote.

Um, you know, why did you do this or why did you do that?

And um while I had been on the board here a little bit longer than she had, I still still felt like I was being schooled.

That uh my my mother was talking to me, and um we would have many, many conversations.

Um she is going to be missed when I got that call at 7 45 that morning that she had passed.

I I felt like someone had um punched me in the gut.

She and my husband were both veterans in the army, and um she said to him one day, where's your veterans hat?

And he said he didn't have one.

Well, the very next day he had one.

Gloria handed me um uh an um an army veteran's hat, which I wore proudly in this last parade on his behalf, and Gloria.

I felt like they were both with me.

Um he loved her as much as I did, and I know she loved him as well.

Um and um Alderman Lopez.

Um, I've never attended the continuum of care meetings, always had the intent of doing so, but it always felt like something came up.

I'm gonna try a little bit harder to be part of that, and um, I'm not gonna say that I'll be there all the time, but I will try harder.

So thank you for reminding us this.

And um, tonight and the past few nights, there's been a lot of passion spoken about one side or the other, and um the truth is passion is a beautiful thing.

Anyone who listens to me go on and on will hear my tears, hear my escalated voice, and and so on.

So I think it's good to be very passionate, and I think that as a group, as we leave this door, we are still friends, um, even if we're on the opposite side, and and um to that I want to um embarrass um my colleague who'll be leaving, um, Alderman Moran, and to say you will be missed, your passion will be missed here.

But I definitely think you should talk to someone about maybe being one of the newbies on the Board of Health.

Um that might not be a bad thing, that might not be a bad thing.

They may not like that, but you would have the passion and so on, and you worked hard.

And I know you didn't work hard to get yourself on there, but I think it might be a it might be a good thing.

Um and um I do want to go back to one thing that one of my colleagues said about the multiple multicultural um festival.

It was a passion of Gloria's, and every year when it would come up, she would remind us it's coming up.

Make sure you attend, and if you didn't attend, she would shame you at the next Board of Alderman meeting because it was a passion of hers, and she loved seeing all of us there.

So I hope in her memory, and as well as because it's a good cause that we all continue to do that, um, as well as the people out there.

Um and to all the veterans, um, I wish you uh a happy Veterans Day, not just for November 11th, but every day.

Um I thank you for your service.

I know um my husband didn't go in voluntarily, Uncle Sam came knocking, and um he stayed in this country and he served his country.

Um so thank you very, very much, and Madam President, thank you.

Alderman Dow.

Yeah, my condolences to Gloria's family.

Uh she and I spoke very often.

And uh she was in my ward and uh would always call if she had concerns or guidance.

And uh as I told Alderman Greg, we used to sit right across from each other, and every time she came into the meeting be a smile, and we'd exchange pleasantries at the beginning of the meeting.

Um, and that will be solely missed.

Um also I didn't when I met with uh Alderman Gregg, I talked about the Greg history in New Hampshire politics.

Um Hugh Gregg was a close friend of my father's when he was governor, and my father worked on his campaigns, which long time ago.

And uh I had a lot of interactivities with Judd Gregg over the years when he was governor and then when he was a senator, and so now I welcome Alderman Gregg, who serves us both in the state and now in the city, and congratulations and look forward to working with you.

Alderwoman Kelly.

I love the seat when I have to go last when everybody's said most of the things, but um I also wanted to remark on uh losing Alderman Timmins.

Uh she will be greatly missed.

Um really an incredible force on the board and otherwise in our community.

Uh I also wanted to welcome um Alderwoman Gregg, or she's going Alderman Gregg, sorry.

Um it's quicker.

It is a little quicker, but um I just wanted to, you know, I've gotten to know her very um very closely in the last few months, and her and um Amber Morgan are just gonna be incredible uh people to be on this board and I I'm I'm proud to call her a friend, which you know happened very very quickly over the last couple months, so welcome uh to the board.

I'm going to just uh take up the religion thing because it was it was passed down to me, so here we are.

Um I actually went to the UU church about five weeks ago because I wanted to see the new building, and I've gone every Sunday since um because I realized how much I needed community um of people who you know this is a great community, but I needed a different third space.

I really been enjoying it and uh one of the things that they talked about uh that our colleague before was the uh Good Samaritan story.

But the positive was that everyone tells that story as as a is a story of like, oh well, you didn't choose to help that neighbor or you did.

But they added the layer that the uh journey from Jericho to Jerusalem.

I think that's all right.

See, I'm not a church person.

Here we go.

Is 3,000 feet uh from um sea level wise from one to the other and so that road was very treacherous.

So when you look at it with that lens, that it's not just who is stopping to help, but what are you willing to risk to help others?

And I thought that was really powerful.

I too would like to um send my condolences to Gloria's family.

I was friend friends with Gloria, and we'd go out to breakfast with her and uh June Karen and have a lot of laughs.

Gloria was a really great, great person.

I'm I'm gonna miss her quite a bit.

Um other than that, committee announcements Alderman Lopez.

Uh human affairs is scheduled for next week.

We don't actually have any legislative business.

Um I was working with environmental health to see if they could give us more information on how people can access, make um express concerns about code enforcement and that kind of stuff.

Uh, you know, issues like that.

Um but I will have to check with my members and make sure if we will have quorum for that.

So I would say everybody check your emails and make sure we don't miss anything.

Other committee announcements.

I don't have a committee announcement, but we have a special meeting on Saturday morning at nine o'clock, so be there, please.

Who's bringing coffee?

Who's bringing coffee?

I think you just volunteered.

Yes, I did.

Albert Jones too.

No pancakes out.

No pancakes.

Alderman O'Brien.

Rick is buying pizza.

Depends how long it goes.

Great.

I like pancakes.

Sounds like we're gonna have like a pizza.

Alderman O'Brien.

Yeah.

I was thinking about the pancake.

Telling me I would like to make the motion at the no November 13, 2025 meeting of the Board of Alderman be adjourned by roll call.

Motion is to adjourn with the clerk, please call the roll.

Alderman O'Brien.

Yes.

Alderman Gregg.

Yes.

Alderman Moran.

Yes.

Alderman Thibodeau.

Yes.

Alderman Lopez.

Yes.

Alderman Sullivan.

Yes.

Alderman Clemens.

Yes.

Alderman Sonnet.

Yes.

Alderman Kelly.

Yes.

Alderman Thibault.

Yes.

Alderman Klee.

Yes.

Alderman Dowd.

Yes.

Alderwoman Kelly.

Yes.

Alderman Wilshire.

Yes.

14 yay, zero names.

We're adjourned at 10:34 PM.

Thank you, everyone.