We're here tonight for the ad hoc bridge realignment property advisory committee.

Um Newport public workshop.

Um so we'll jump right into it and uh Colin, do you want to get it going?

I already want to start this.

Let's do it.

Hello, working.

Thank you.

All right.

So lots of you're gonna see lots of technological challenges uh with me tonight, so I apologize.

Uh again, Colin Kane, um uh I chaired the North End uh advice uh bridge realignment advisory commission um exceptionally ably supported uh by my fellow commissioners, Council Pannock, uh Jeff Deal, Tom Gibson, uh Roy Louth, and Jan Brody, who unfortunately could not be here tonight.

Uh but uh uh you know we're I don't know if excitement is the right term, uh, but we're pleased to be able to report out uh in a more conversational way uh the work that the commission uh you know basically uh generated in our 18-month uh study period.

Um the first point here is just a review, and and I also apologize for the font of my PowerPoint.

I haven't personally put a PowerPoint together in 10 years.

Um every time I tried to make it bigger, it blew up.

Uh uh, but you've you've read the substance of the report, uh, but we'll quickly review it so we can open up for questions and conversation.

Uh our assignment you know was to evaluate the status of the realignment project and understand the regulated uh by both DOT and Federal Highway disposition process of any of the uh DOT excess parcels.

We were also tasked with evaluating uh the physical and due diligence condition of those excess parcels and the surrounding private and publicly held properties.

Uh we were tasked to identify potential options uh of you know legal options of an entity that could serve as both the fee owner of the excess parcels as well as the we'll call it the permitting authority or disposition authority or redevelopment authority uh of the north end.

And then we were tasked with putting together some uh some next steps, recommended next steps.

I think it's very important, and we've said this uh in many settings, uh, but it's very important uh that the findings of the commission are 1,000 percent unrelated to the future use uh of any of the north end.

Um whether it's all open space, whether it is the re uh the daylighting of Elizabeth Brooke, whether it's housing, whether it's blue economy buildings, uh, whether it's a splash pad, uh the things that need to happen in the north end, um they all have to happen to support any one of those uses because of the current conditions of the property, um, and you know, the the permitting challenges that its current conditions present.

Um so the commission did not uh render an opinion, uh make recommendations around what should happen in the north end, uh what should happen in the north end uh should be a result of uh you know what the city of Newport's objectives are, what the neighborhood objectives are, uh what can be permitted, uh what we can we can afford to make happen, uh, and what the market is, you know, relative to any vertical construction or even horizontal improvements.

And please interrupt mayor any time.

We all drive by the north end, walk on the north end.

And everyone has, I think, a very keen understanding from at least from a visual perspective of the current condition of the property.

What we're talking about here from the RIDOT, the DOT access parcels is roughly 25 acres in four parcels that have been identified by DOT.

In fact, they've been recorded with the city of Newport after the Federal Highway Administration approved them as non-necessary for any future highway or DOT work.

So that that is a major and significant step forward.

And basically defines the completion, although we hope we get the landscape cleaned up and some signs, but the completion of the bridge realignment project on the north end.

We can see, look at this.

Did I mess it up already?

Look at it.

Oh, here we go.

The DOT parcels kind of form the spine, if you would, uh of the north end.

But they're surrounded by what we'll describe as underdeveloped, uh underdeveloped.

At the time they were not underveloped, they they responded to the marketplace.

Uh but today we look at them and we we we have a shopping center with a giant field of parking.

Uh we have uh a city laydown yard, a public works yard, uh that you know basically is a is a building stuck with a lot of service parking and public vehicles, a tradesman center uh that again is low, low-scale, low density buildings surrounded by public parking.

And you can see that pattern uh throughout the north end.

Uh that makes sense.

This was a dead end, right?

And so, you know, uh outside of a Navy base, uh, so the dead end respond, the market responded to the kind of the dead end and somewhat industrial characteristics of the North End.

Uh but within that, you know, we look at the DOT parcels, there's opportunity, not within the DOT parcels necessarily themselves, although there's some, but the larger opportunity is the combination of the DOT parcels and the surrounding and adjacent parcels.

We have meaningful infrastructure challenges.

Um even today, uh when it when conditions are, I'll say wrong, uh, the public works, we have to get trucks there to keep the sewer system running.

Um the RK Center is served by a private sewer line that runs north on JT O'Connell.

Uh, there is effectively no or quite limited electrical gas and water distribution, uh no telecom and no sewer services.

Now that is a daunting task to talk about a lack of infrastructure.

Uh but you know, as I say in many public hearings, we didn't stop building sewer when Rome fell.

Um, you know, we know how to do this.

Uh the city has a very capable engineering team.

Um, and and the the solutions, you know, are there.

There are places to plug into.

We, you know, there the capacity issues that can be expanded.

Uh, but today it'd be hard to put a building, a park, even with a park with you know, public heads, public restrooms, uh, because of the lack of utility infrastructure.

It has severe flood conditions.

Um I know Roy knows uh we had that pretty heavy rainstorm, uh, I don't know, maybe three or four months ago, uh, you know, and it basically shuts down some roadways.

Uh so we have heavy, heavy rain, um, especially when it's linked to high tide because all that water drains into the bay through the Navy base, uh, you know, we have significant flooding.

To further complicate making the north end better, it it is characterized by lots and lots of freshwater wetlands.

Okay, some that have been there a long time, uh, some that have formed as a result of natural flooding, some that are brand new.

Uh, if you look at the hill, if you call the the overpass to nowhere, the 138 overpass to nowhere, uh, and the giant hill uh next just west of the Wayfinder Hotel, you know, if you look to the left as you're heading north uh heading east on Admiral Calfus, you know, there's a whole bunch of Fragmite at the bottom of that hill.

That wetland didn't exist in that form until the high the realignment project happened.

So how DEM characterizes that wetland matters a lot.

If it's if it's a pristine wetland that we cannot disturb, uh, we've basically rendered that entire area unbuildable or unimprovable.

But we do believe there's a path forward, but we have lots and lots of wetlands on the area that we need help from our partners at the state in understanding what our options are.

Again, I go back to you.

Unrelated to use.

To the extent the Elizabeth River can be daylighted, which we fervently hope it can, this wetland characterization, how things get moved, water gets moved.

If we look at the standard reg book, we could not daylight Elizabeth Brook, notwithstanding it's really really uh incredible opportunities to improve habitat.

Uh the DEM regulations, the way they're written, are very prescriptive in terms of what can happen and setbacks.

However, and this is an important, however, there is ample precedent in Rhode Island for DEM to look at the overall impact uh of an area.

If we daylight Elizabeth Brook, if we create open space, if we create public parks, we can improve habitat, improve livability, and still satisfy that the objectives of the wetland regulations.

But take it unto themselves, and if they if they're strictly interpreted, we will have areas that cannot be built, never can be built, and never can be improved.

So we need some creativity, engineering and permitting creativity.

On top of that, as those that have been living with it for the last four or five years, uh behind Rogers High School, we have lots of the same dirt.

This was you know, uncontrolled urban fill.

Uh it has lousy, I know this is really geeky, but it has terrible load-bearing capacity.

You know, so from a geotechnical perspective, it's not great.

Um, it's not compacted.

Uh all things that can be managed and do get managed, uh, but all things that factor into how the area is improved and permitted.

And anything we dig, we put in sewers, we install electric, we put telecom in, when we build a road, when we build new stormwater detention basins, all of that goes into dirty dirt.

And we need to figure out where that dirty dirt goes.

Um, and it's much, much easier to keep if you as the Rogers High School experience shows.

If we plan ahead and we're able to keep that on site, hap it uh as opposed to trucking it off to Fresh Kills, New York or New Jersey.

I forget where that is.

You don't want to go to Fresh Kills.

Jersey.

We closed Fresh Kill.

Okay, sorry.

Yeah, we filled it up with stuff from Newport.

But um, but you know, it's it's you know, hundreds of dollars a yard to take it out.

Uh but if we can find a way as we're cutting and filling and installing infrastructure and planning for improvements to keep it on site with DEM's permission, uh it's a much more feasible path.

Um, and and just as safe a path.

You know, this is we're not asking DEM for any permission to escape past any regulations.

Uh we want to preclude direct exposure, uh, but there's ways to do that on a regional basis as opposed to a site-by-side basis.

So you can see the old dump.

Uh that's 1940, but it was an incendiary dump for a very long time.

You can see actually see uh the traffic circle there.

Uh on the right-hand side, um, you can see that is the parcel west of the wayfinder, and that what I'll describe as an emergent wetland.

Uh and if we strictly apply the DEM setbacks, you know, 100 plus feet, you can see that we have very, very little sort of improvable area, either for park or building or whatever we'd like to put there.

So I talked a lot about permitting, and I I know it's not an exciting topic, but uh, but at the end of the day, the front door uh to these parcels uh does run through DEM.

Um, DOT is the first gate uh whether or not to acquire the property from our partners at DOT.

Uh but that's a pretty clear process.

Um and DOT uh has been an exceptional partner uh throughout our our evaluation of the parcels.

Um and I'm confident will continue to be an exceptional partner uh as the city of Newport evaluates uh acquiring the parcels.

Uh but at the end of the day, yielding anything positive for the city uh runs through the state, and it runs primarily through DEM.

And more than a wink to the Army Corps of Engineers because the primary outflow runs to the Bay, which is managed by the Army Corps.

All achievable outcomes.

Very much the same conditions that the 195 parcel had, all those parcels, the 19 acres had coastal resources, DM, environmental conditions, lack of infrastructure, very, very much the same conditions in Providence as opposed to Newport.

The commissioner recommends, strongly recommends public control of the RIDOT excess parcels.

Now note, DOT has to sell them per federal highway requirements at fair market value.

That fair market value is established by a third party appraisal that then gets approved by federal highway.

Basically, federal highway says, you know, we help you buy the land in 1962 or 63 to build the bridge.

At the fair market value of the time.

But you know, public control, city control of the right out, uh the DOT excess parcels, we believe is very critical.

Perhaps not all of them.

Um there may be one or two.

We have not evaluated that because we haven't yet been able to dig into what the parcels themselves are, uh, but the majority of excess parcels we believe should be in city control because they are keystone to the what bridge are you talking about?

The Newport Bridge.

When they built the Newport Bridge, they took the property from over 150 property owners.

Okay.

Um so when they took it, they paid fair market value.

Uh whether they negotiated with that homeowner or business owner, or they just took it and then settled the amount in court, that was a taking.

Um, much of it financed by the feds.

Um so the feds basically have the ultimate sort of approval uh on DOT's disposition, the sale of the of the property.

I would say uh, and I've worked with statewide properties on many, many occasions, counselor, they're exceptionally talented at doing this.

They have they're probably some of the most sophisticated real estate professionals in the state because they do it all the time.

You know, they buy, they sell, they take.

Uh they're very, very good at it.

Um, and there's a clear path forward in that regard.

Um we describe the current conditions.

So it'd be great to say buy the property and you know, daisies and daffodils, I suppose is the different rather more appropriate flower.

But you know, and and we can go forward.

But at the end of the day, um, you know, we've we have some characterization of the land of the property.

Um city planning, um, city engineering department has done a very good job of understanding the the possibilities relative to infrastructure improvements and managing stormwater.

Uh, but we still have a lot to do and a lot to do relative to the possibilities of the north end um relative to improvement, because that will inform where and how utilities are installed, right?

Um how much utilities we have to put in.

If we're expecting a million square feet of green economy office building, you know, that's a very different load than a park and three public bathrooms.

So it's very complicated and time consuming process.

Again, it happens.

Uh it happened at Quonset, it happened at 195.

Um, heck, the Newport Bridge got built in the 60s, um, with far less technology.

So uh so we we recommend uh that a single center of authority be created uh to serve uh as the execution vehicle in the north end uh to consolidate and coordinate planning, permitting and execution efforts.

That entity would also serve as the taking the title to the property.

Um the city can take title, the city has had title, it probably still has title to excess buildings, that sort of thing.

Um the city has a more challenging, again, I'm not an attorney, uh, but uh attorney being was helpful in engaging a you know a kind of a public finance attorney.

Uh but the city council has a higher threshold in terms of its approval and how it needs to dispose of property as opposed to a quasi-governmental, which I find is to be the strangest word on the planet, uh, but a quasi-government entity, which Newport has had a history of with the Newport Redevelopment Authority, which is a quasi-governmental entity, charted uh and funded by the city alone, or a state chartered quasi uh entity, which it would be Quonset 195 Commission, et cetera.

Um and those entities would be take, they could take fee title to the land.

They could buy the property.

Um, and they could also serve as the agency of permitting uh selection of what happens there, uh, making decisions on whether we sell to Tom or whether we sell to Jeff.

Um, so that is the role that Quonset and 195 serve in their capacity as quasi-governmental entities.

What we can all what we what we need to do, uh, in our opinion, we need to start generating excitement for the North End.

Um but before that, we gotta knock on DEM's door.

Um we had a very positive meeting.

Um, uh we had the two city managers, uh Teresa was there.

Trish, I think you were there.

Um several members of the commission with the directors of coastal resources and DEM.

Um, and they wholeheartedly embraced the master permit approach, uh, which is is excellent.

Um they understood the objectives, uh, they've done it before.

Um the challenge is that that now has to get followed up with hardcore engineering reality, um, and it has to get followed up with hardcore support from DEM and CRMC staff, which sometimes where things break down.

Um but so from our perspective, we have a couple of asks uh at the state level, primarily the state level, but more federal money is always good.

Um but we need political will and support to basically ensure that DEM and coastal resources stay on our team.

And they are on our team, they're our partners.

Uh, but again, it's hard sometimes for regulatory agencies to step outside the parcel by parcel comfort zone.

Um, and this is much more regional uh and a much more challenging engineering and permitting path.

Um we also think that the city of Newport is too small from an economic perspective to support this solely on your tax base.

Um, you know, installing sewers.

You can do a lot of things yourselves.

Uh we can do a lot of planning, we can we can do a lot of engineering, um, but but the installation of infrastructure, the cut fill, the construction of roads.

It's not as grand as the bridge realignment project, but it is it is no mean feat.

Colin, yes.

This uh the master permit approach you're saying is this just for uh a group to acquire the parcels, or would it would they continue on overseeing the development and you know be part of uh the city somewhat like uh I would assume uh uh an offshoot of like the planning board.

So our recommendation would be a singular authority that is the fee owner, um, the sales agent, if you would, for the property, um, the permitting, leading the permitting, um, and uh uh helping resource at the state, it needs to lobby continuously at the state uh mayor, um, but also serving as the the primary permitting authority, pad ready, predictable approvals.

Um the effort here is to, and no offense to elected officials, is to depoliticize the development process to the extent possible.

It's not there's no such thing as a perfect depoliticized process, right?

Uh uh you know, we live in in a world where we have to ask the state house, we have to ask the city, we have to ask the federal government for resources.

But the the effort here would be to establish uh you know objective criteria, you know, uh uh agreed upon at the state, the city, and the federal level, what should happen here, uh, and then task an independent body uh appointed by political leaders uh to run it.

That does not obviate the role of the planning board.

Um, you know, at 195, um the plan the city of province, we it's adopted the city of province's planning regs.

Um independent of North Kingstown.

So there are different approaches to it, Mayor.

Um I think importantly, you know, we suggest as well that this is not just the Rhode Island DOT parcels.

Okay, then they're the keystone, you know, the unlocking the merits of these underdeveloped properties that are surrounded, uh require control and ownership, uh utilizing these DOT parcels to move stormwater to man to get that infrastructure in there, uh, maybe have some developable areas there.

Uh but the the impact of of that, you know, should positively affect the surrounds.

So uh, in our opinion, that the the North End redevelopment authority, whether it's state or city is broader, encompasses a broader area than just the DOT parcels.

Um we will certainly seek the cooperation of the third-party property owners.

Sometimes you get more cooperation when you have a bigger whip.

You have no place to put stormwater.

You have a bunch of dirty dirt.

Let's cooperatively figure out how we can enhance the merits of your parcel, your property, you know, by helping to solve that on a collective basis.

Colin, are you saying that the direction of development should either be in the hands of one entity, whether it's state or city or we are.

Okay.

You know, that's an uncomfortable thing to talk about.

Um especially the council has let's say it'll be we recommend buying the stuff.

Um, but you know, the the council would be giving up the planning would be giving up a certain uh amount of its prerogatives.

Um the goal there is again to depoliticize the acquisition permitting and uh development process.

I guess please, no, please and integrate to make sure that you know all the work that went into things like the North Enduring Plan are actually accomplished by having a um you know a single point uh control development uh as that as I get to um you know when I look at it, you basically got a big wedge of property that starts up by the way the wayfarer uh gets down and comes down to the city.

The property itself really is not good for the property as it stands right now, really can't be developed on its own.

But you can't do anything worth doing unless you have it.

Um if it's just left warehoused as it is, you're gonna have all these little islands of development at uh former highlight property across um and you'll get more of the kind of development that's water there property integrated because you'll never never accomplish any of the purposes of the also end plan.

So you know, getting control of that property number one has to be a priority, uh, and then number two, having having an overall authority uh that can uh can execute the vision.

Yeah, and and and I guess I want to also clarify something.

You have a lot of discussion around seating authority.

It's not really seating authority, it's really providing one place of execution, right?

So you've got you there is a there is a north end development plan, right?

There is city planning.

So there's a lot of guardrails that have been put in place, but what's really happening is you're concentrating the execution of those plans into one organization that is set up for the sole purposes of executing those those plans within the guardrails that are established by the council.

So who would establish this group?

So from a statutory perspective, counselor, um the city had could re-constitute the Newport Redevelopment Authority quickly.

Um it would need to have its own budget.

Uh, you know, it could be staffed with the support um of uh existing city professionals.

Um but so that would be a a feasible and practical approach.

Um the question becomes and the same would be the state, except that gets has to go through the legislative process.

The question is really, and I don't have an answer is do we get state support, meaningful state support uh without state involvement.

Uh I'm not excited about again.

I live in North Kingstown.

I'm frequently reminded I'm not from Newport, but um, you know, that you know, we don't want to see control as Jeff describes uh of outcomes uh to some appointee from the city of Province, right?

It's not it's not that's not the goal.

Um, you know, I think Kwanset has been very sensitive, has been very successful in you know integrating with the with the town of North Kingstown and bringing value to the town of North Kingstown uh through its efforts.

But um it has to be constituted by this here Newport City Redevelopment Authority uh the city council could do.

Redevelopment group, what what do you mean?

What what group is what group you mean?

You had a redevelopment authority, I think.

A long time like back when the Americans cut the avenue like bad memory, I understand.

Okay.

I don't mean yeah, I mean I know some people don't like it, but I'm just saying that but you're thinking about that kind of a that would be yes, correct.

Um and it it it had it held assets.

I think that the Newport Redo Authority on the armory, you know, whether people are having that outcome or not.

But I I that there is precedent statewide um under state statute, the city can form this group.

What type of guarantees do we have that uh this quasi public agency would adhere to city and particular city council ordinances underlying planning zoning rules, et cetera.

We we have, in my own opinion, a tough enough time with regard to the planning board that we currently have seated doing what I think, and counselors can opine as they want, but doing what I think is uh an inappropriate reaching in certain developments.

There are rules, we have ordinances regarding planning and zoning.

Uh and we can name at least a few examples of where the planning board, our own board, uh our own council appointed board has gone beyond what I think is the intent of the underlying ordinances, the intent of the planning and zoning laws.

I think it could be much worse from the perspective of uh some body reaching out and doing far more than what the underlying ordinances are designed for, especially again, if it's not a body which is exclusively appointed by the council.

I I I certainly can't opine, counselor, on current planning board decision making.

Um but I can I can only share my experience and this I think this can this experience has been consistent since the 195 commission was formed.

Uh the the zoning um for the 195 area uh was constructed collectively with the City of Providence and their planning professionals.

Uh the one project that tried to shove itself through uh was the Fain Tower, um, and it failed uh on that merit.

It was not able to get past the agreed upon city zoning standards.

Um that had lots of political tailwinds behind it to make happen.

Uh so that that's that's is that's the most kind of the biggest example I can I can cite.

Um you know, Quant adheres to the agreed upon regulations of the town of North Kingstown, um as and obviously state racks.

But I agree.

I I is there an opportunity or possibility that could happen?

Um yes, of course.

The 195 commission, though, was not uh a city of Providence appointed commission.

City of Providence, as I recall, had an appointee on the commission, but yet the two appointees, pardon me, but yet the uh overwhelming number of appointees were between the executive office, that is the governor's office, and the legislature, correct?

Uh your spot on that is correct.

Um and uh regarding what you said about Quant a few minutes ago, you had mentioned that Quant's point redevelopment authority, which I think has done a great job.

Uh I know they're lobbyists well in there uh their folks up there and tremendous work, but they're under no obligation to, as you said earlier, adhere to any North Kingston standards.

If they don't want to, they don't have to, correct?

I I think it's more aligned.

I I don't want to opine, I've I didn't work at Quantum.

But we do have the guardrails of the North End Urban Plan.

We have we do have our own zoning laws.

I mean, that would have to be taken into consideration in all of this.

And Council, I I think there would the this permitting exercise is going to inform the the possibilities of the North End.

I mean North End Urban Plan was like you know, it's well done, lots of public input, but it's a cartoon at this point.

Well, it is it isn't the yeah, but it's still a path.

It it can create a path forward to what it is that the city wants to see there.

It can.

But I think that path can be much better informed by we know what areas we need to put a sub an electrical substation.

We know what areas we want to you know provide the the opportunity for a parking structure, centralized parking structure.

Uh we know that our roadways do this, either get people from you know, Admiral Calvis to this part of the parcel.

How do we do that?

Uh that's where we're gonna run our utilities.

Then the zoning, I think, is informed by where we believe we'll be in investing in infrastructure and placement.

So I think there's a lot of uh, you know, a lot of water sale upon before that zoning gets recast with the city um and whatever this quasi is.

So how how many um how much of these 25 acres is actually usable though?

I mean, if we're talking about wetlands or talking, you know, there's are we how many are we talking?

Literally can't say, and I'm not trying to uh avoid the question, counselor.

Uh we we don't if it's used in concert with slots a lot.

gets recast with the city um and whatever this quasi is so how how many um how much of these 25 acres is actually usable though i mean if we're talking about wetlands or talking you know there's is are we how many are we talking literally can't say and i'm not trying to uh avoid the question counselor uh we we don't if it's used in concert with slots a lot um if it's you know just used independently and d em says everything is a pristine freshwater wetland very little so it it very much depends on you know the what we're able to get permitted uh and uh the engineering solutions where where can we manage this stormwater there's a lot of it right um you know where where where you know where do we bring sewer from and and how do we get it there so i i again i'm not trying to be coy uh but a lot of great work has been done uh particularly by the planning board and your engineering department um we know what has to happen next but it that's another round of investment but does that question about the usable land play into how much the state would want to sell it for i mean is this is that one would hope but i i think that horse is out of the barn so you know we so the an appraisal has been conducted um we have not as a city had a chance to engage with dot understand the specifics of that appraisal uh we would hope very much that we had an opportunity to conduct our own appraisal just like what happens at a taking um and you know have it informed by this report the input of our planning and engineering team but you know uh that's going to be a third party DOT federal highway decision not city of newports right unfortunately um what intrigues me most though is uh the the the lots of land that are already in use like let's say the you know the the the Walmart stop and shop parking lot um they need improved infrastructure they there are there's that whole area across the street from there which it needs reworking I'm sure is there any way to expand their infrastructure into where there is no infrastructure I mean it does it make sense that would that be possible to tie in with them or in order to make it seem more feasible I I don't know I mean I'm I'm just looking at how feasible is it that after we buy the land yeah yeah we can set up this commission but where are we going to get the money and where are we gonna where are we going to get all the resources for this so it's absolutely feasible and and again recommended that the solution lies collectively it not just with the DOT parcels.

The city's control or or whatever entity city quasi whatever we call it public control of those parcels provide that opportunity counselor to work with our adjacent property owners um and with our permitting authorities the money side it's a real question um it it it is going to take meaning meaningful infrastructure investment okay that happened at 195 it certainly happened at QAS at you know federal and state dollars and continues to happen there um you know but a lot of these things uh you know sewer water power those are metered activities those are bondable activities right um so there are they they do get financed uh with prospective usage fees so it you know even parks we set up uh again I'm sorry to reference 195 I just did it for a long time you know the the the park maintenance schedule uh is funded by extra taxes paid by the the buildings that have been built there we we it's we put that you kind of infrastructure together uh so that we had a funding mechanism outside of government independent tied to that property because it benefited those property owners a downtown improvement district if you're but you know if we don't try to improve what's already there then it's uh put we need we need to put on board the owners of those properties in order to on that commission wouldn't you say and in order to have their buy-in on this I don't want I I don't think so but I I again I we're hoping that the path forward is in everyone's self-interest uh to perform and and we think that that can happen do I believe that some people will believe it's not um that's why authorities are generated um to preclude bad actors and bad behavior who put the bond out or the bonds out for the 195 projects the underlying that was the state counselor the state did it so the quasi public that was set up the state essentially went to the state and asked for the money or asked for at least bonding the full faith and credit of the state of Rhode Island that's correct and similarly you would envision something like that for us.

That would be our goal thank you I'm fantasizing perhaps but that would be the goal where where is Ry dot on all of this I I greatly appreciate all the work that the commission has done because I'm sure it has not been easy but we haven't heard from RIDOT directly so is that going to happen?

So is that going to happen?

Um we we do have an update on that.

We actually uh Deputy Carlo and I had a conversation with uh um uh Mr.

Uh Chris Chris Santilli this morning and and Colin has been in touch with him as well, uh uh with with my blessing because of his work on the commission.

And he told us the same thing that he told Colin as recently as October 11th, which is the the property has been appraised by RIDOT um and they use the third party.

We know who that third party is now.

Uh today was the first time I learned who that was.

So uh that's public record.

We should be able to go find that appraisal.

I think at a future date, I will uh uh request to meet with the council and executive session to discuss a possible recommendation to conduct our own appraisal.

Uh I I think the the relative smallness of that investment would reap dividends in the long run in terms of trying to bring the price down a little bit.

We we know we're not going to get that property for free, nor would we ever expect to.

Uh that wouldn't be right.

Um, but to try to find out what a fair market value appraisal is once those two appraisals are reconciled would be our goal.

Um the the city is positioned uh um aptly to be able to purchase these parcels when and when the time comes.

Um and then also checking my notes here for my meeting this morning from our meeting this morning.

Um, and and the the parcels have been uh um they have been registered with with land evidence here in the city.

Um so we we know exactly what the acreage of those parcels are now, and and we do know what the the one appraisal that's been done, what they are recommending in terms of both value and utility.

And by utility, I don't mean like utility like stormwater sewer, I mean utility in terms of how much of it is useful.

Um and there are varying percentages depending on the parcels.

Um so within the last few weeks, we've learned a lot more than we had up to this point.

Uh and I I think we're ready at a future executive session to discuss um recommendation for our own appraisal and then to prepare ourselves for the eventual uh uh purchase and sale of that property.

Um Mr.

Santilli did confirm because I I wanted to hear him say it, he did confirm that whether it's by fee appraisal or by auction, and we certainly would prefer fee appraisal.

But either way, the city of Newport will get a right of first refusal under state law when the time comes.

So uh we are required to be notified formally by letter.

Um and so it's not like we're gonna miss our opportunity that we will be notified and have an opportunity to make a decision.

And typically when communities are offered a decision like this with the law being 30 days, communities ask for and are frequently granted extensions if they need more time to fit it into the rhythm of council meetings and this and the like.

So um uh just to conclude, we know more now than we did recently, and I think we're in a good place in terms of the acquisition.

The bigger picture, as Mr.

Kane is pointing out about how to execute development is uh remains remains to be seen.

Why would we want to do that though, in terms of using our own money to purchase the excess land?

And and before I get the answer to that question, uh we do have the right of first recusal as I understand it when there is nobody uh who generationally is entitled to bump uh the municipality.

Are there any generational former owners of the land who would in fact be given the right of first recusal?

The other way around.

Yep.

So there are three.

Um there used to be well over, as Colin said, 150.

All but three have now passed on, uh, whether in the form of businesses that used to exist or individuals.

Uh so one individual and two businesses.

Yep.

When and if those three bid uh and win the bid, the larger playing uh the larger plan, Colin, uh they got us by the goattails there, don't they?

No, not necessarily it is a good question, though, counselor.

Uh so uh they they none of the 150 are the parcels, right?

These would be small pieces uh at best.

Uh so corners or sent or piece or carve outs.

Uh we had two of them uh at 195, and and those were resolved uh through negotiation uh you know over a three-year period uh with the 195 commission DOT and that property owner.

Uh so you'll hold out let's call it what it is.

Uh at the end of the day, part of the city's due diligence um on the acquisition side uh would be to evaluate the impact of those, you know, the path of resolution on those uh and ensuring um and this would be across all of the parcels uh that the purchasing entity can get clear title.

Uh so literally by having a title policy issued to the acquiring entity.

Um so there's definitely some you know uh you know some work to be done.

Uh but I'll go back to my original statement about DOT and statewide properties.

They're very, very good at this.

Um and uh they're very professional, they understand the process, um, and it sort of plays itself out more frequently than I think most right islanders understand.

I like your ideas.

I like the commission's ideas, as Lynn said and others, I'm sure on the council agree.

I appreciate uh all the hard work.

I think it was Stephanie actually, who's counselor Smythe who said it, and I'll echo those uh comments.

But if you tomorrow had to make a decision, the city goes out to bond, gets the money, or the city pays cash from whatever sources we determine, versus what you told me about 10 minutes ago, uh the 195 commission did, which was essentially go to beg to the or beg the state for the cash, and the the state used its resources and uh its credit to get the money to the 195 commission for the purpose of purchasing the land.

Which one of those two would you uh rather do?

Get the state to pay for it or make us pay for it.

I'd always like someone else's money, right?

Um I'd rather go Dutch, I guess is the way uh, but but it you know, I think that it's a it's a I think the first, and this is our first recommendation that the city engage uh with DOT.

I again I think public control, and our recommendation is at least that in the near term city control of the parcels is very important.

Okay, these are recorded lots.

These are this is public record.

These properties have value to the abutters uh in some or all.

Uh DOT has no obligation to sell all of it at once.

Um but they do we do have a right of first refusal.

We do have a great seat at the table with our partners at DOT.

Um they are prepared to negotiate, work with the city in any terms.

I think realistically, for us to go up and knock on the door to the state and say we need 12 million bucks, making up this number in the infrastructure, you know, to do another 195, um that's several years uh of work.

Uh 195 worked because uh you know, Senator President Roger thought it was very important.

Uh you know, I'll be I'll argue to rest control of the property from the city of Providence.

That'd be very blunt.

Uh I don't think that's the case here.

Um so I I there might be a uh uh a winner that is state chartered, state resource help, but does provide you know, let's call it more local control or lack of better terms.

So when the president helped you get that state money, uh he was doing so in part because the city of Providence uh was not acting cooperatively for what would be uh everybody's best interest as state residents.

Is that fair to say?

That's accurate to say.

And you know, and I think Brown University wanted the whole thing too.

Yeah, was also playing pre-fent defense.

Sure, absolutely.

So in the end, when the state gave the money to the or agreed to use its own credit uh for the benefit of the 195 commission, the 195 commission has control of the property, not providence at all, correct?

Yes, but subject to and consistent with providence zoning and planning statements.

Certainly.

Whereas in this case, um, if I'm correct, just a few minutes ago, you said local control, city of Newport control over the property, the ownership of the property would be more preferable uh than having to wait a number of years to go through that process.

And frankly, we don't have a Donnie, we don't have a president Regierio.

Uh we have some great people.

Uh but that's why I'm hedging my debts, Counselor.

That's why I don't have an answer for you directly.

Appreciate it.

Yes, are we under time constraint like so the appraisal has happened, and I heard our city manager say that the city can do another appraisal.

So is there a time frame that we have to be that we have to consider between the appraisal and purchase?

It's hard to say.

The urgency.

Oh, well, uh uh a couple of things.

So one is the urgency that you know it is public, right?

So another enterpr entity could make a run, lack of better term, um, at some of these parcels.

Whether or not that happens, I can't know.

But but staying close to DOT gives us a much better insight to that than sitting on the sidelines.

Um, you know, the the the we I always this is kind of an old real estate term, counselor, but you know, time kills all deals, right?

Right.

We we know the variables that we have in front of us today.

Um uh we have a very cooperative and willing partner at DOT.

Uh we have a good understanding of you know what's happening.

So again, I don't have to write the checks, so it's easy for me to say.

Uh uh, but you know, we would suggest there's some urgency around this uh uh because we know the players and we know what's what today.

We don't have any third party actors chasing the stuff, and we still have our right of first refusal that if we need to post quickly, we can.

Um I also and this is a bit more qualitative.

You know, uh we have uh we have two very capable uh leaders at the state level.

Uh uh, the director of DEM and the directory of coastal resources, um uh that have gone through this process, have led this process um in other places on the state.

Uh, you know, whether or not they survive uh gubernatorial change or legislative, I you know, it I one doesn't know.

Um, but we have very capable professionals in those in those roles today that have endorsed our approach.

Again, it qualitative, but we have a set of variables that we understand today.

We don't know it could get better next time, but don't know.

Um we were very fortunate uh at 195, but we had director Janet Coit at DM, and she was world-class, right?

So um so that's uh so I say we have cooperative state authorities.

Well we don't have, um, and I think this is important.

Um this has not the governor was very helpful in getting us in front of DOT.

DOT's been terrific.

DM Gosel been very very willing to meet.

Uh but this is not risen to any level of visibility on Smith Hill, right?

Um Newport for some reason remains down there.

Um, I I think if if if the state from an economic development perspective uh is talking about green economy, uh, is talking about the strength of our hospitality enterprises, it's talking about the the merits of our open space and parkland, you know, this is a great opportunity that fits MACDAB within those objectives.

Um but right now I don't think this North End was a construction project for the bridge realignment for the past five or six years.

So it needs to be elevated, uh, we suggest uh to the state level.

Colin, how many um parcels are there and what is the acreage?

So there's 25 acres, round numbers.

Um there are four parcels, but that is somewhat simplistic because you're not going to develop eight acres or ten acres at a time, right?

Um so uh, you know, I think now that they've been recorded, um they've been surveyed with the engineering team and the the planning department, you know, it's pretty easy to figure out what we don't want, what we want.

Um so I I they're not you you can look at it as there's a lot of dirt, and if you tack on slots, city lay down yard, tradesman facility, uh RK, there's a lot of opportunity there to do really, really special things that are completely consistent with what the city of Newport wants to happen in North End.

Um, you know, I I you know I I assure you that if there is a quasi created that the first order of business is not gonna is gonna say, you know what, the heck with the city of Newport, we're gonna put you know five data centers to suck all the power out of Newport and a bunch of warehouses, right?

That's that that's just inconceivable to me.

Uh the other thing that's very much going for for the for the North End.

Um, you know, this is Newport's special.

I mean, Newport is um it's it's it's it it lives almost outside the overall island economy um because of what what what you are.

Uh um so there's uh there's a market driver here, and I'm not suggesting that we just throw a billion apartments and hotels.

Uh I'm not suggesting that at all.

Uh because I think lots of objectives can be accomplished North End, um public and private.

But it's special, and we have a big Navy base there with a lab with incredible sophistication.

Um so there's a lot of merit to the location um that I would say even downtown province does not have.

I'd also like to say another thing as well is that um I think this is to part of your point is um this doesn't all happen at once, right?

This is a sequential thing that obviously needs a plan from the city, but you know, the first step is that purchase of the land if that's the direction that the city wants to go, whether it's the city itself or as we've recommended through uh some sort of quasi agency.

Um, but again, you know, the development of the infrastructure and the uh other parts isn't everything that just you know you don't just jump in with both feet.

So this is a sequential thing.

The first decision obviously is purchasing this land in the best interest of the city.

I think that's our recommendation that it is uh through a uh an agency that can manage the execution of this, but help from the feds or the state with regards to financing the the infrastructure and other things could be something that could happen after the fact.

Um, but doesn't necessarily need to happen right now.

Clearly, is Colin said the you know 195 commission went about in a different way because there were different objectives uh uh across the state.

But I think that you know, as Colin has said, is that it's uh Newport is a special place.

It's got a special place within the state and the state economy.

And one would think that there would be support from the state at some point in the process, but not necessarily uh necessary up front.

Think about it from a sequential point of view.

Yeah.

Sorry.

How big was that 95 project?

19 acres.

19 acres.

19 acres.

Yep.

Um I agree with what you said regarding uh the sequence.

But if hypothetically the city of Newport and its taxpayers were to say uh we will spend 10 million dollars for the per purchase of the acreage, uh, we would want at least, albeit uh we know, as you said, that we'll have to wait some time.

It's not all happening at once.

We have a sequence, but if we're gonna go ahead and spend the 10 million dollars, hypothetically, uh, we would want some assurance from the state that they have a hell of an interest in helping us finance the tens and tens and tens of millions in infrastructure and physical plant uh improvements that would be necessary to make the 10 million dollar purchase worth it.

Does anybody disagree?

No, sir.

Do you see that we would get that assurance?

It's not gonna come in a big bucket and uh and a lottery check.

Um no, I I again sequentially uh, you know, let's let's stand, let's get with our partners at DOT and let's let's you know again if the council endorses it, we'd like to buy it.

Okay, you know, we're not saying we're buying it all.

We're not saying when we're closing, okay.

There's still work to do relative to understanding and compiling the environmental information that DOT has put together.

We don't even have maybe Trish does, but you know, we got these recorded lots and survey.

We don't really have working exhibits.

You know, we we we have very little to share publicly with, you know, here's actually what has been recorded.

Here's where it is, you know, you know, wow, Roy's house is right next.

You know, so we we have to we we have to take those steps, uh, which are very straightforward.

Um, you know, we we do, I think need to kind of conceptualize.

You have the team to do it.

Um, you know, kind of use not necessarily what happens, but kind of concepts uh so we can understand how much sewer capacity is needed, how much electrical power is needed, where we can put centralized parking, where roads can go, and what the wetlands treatment will do, where stormwater goes.

That's kind of I call it conceptual.

Now that we know where the parcels are, counselor, we can begin to play with that a little better.

Uh and I think without spending a lot of money, we can go have thoughtful meetings with our neighbors, right?

Um all the while staying at DOT's hip and understanding that we still very much would like to acquire this, but the city needs to understand the next steps.

Um, and it also needs to socialize with this state, right?

So um so you know, that so our kind of you know, one, two, three, you know, would be DOT.

Um again, we recommend acquiring public control of these parcels is important.

Uh we would recommend regular meetings with our partners at DM.

Coastal is a as an ancillary role, but DM is critical.

Um, let's strike whether we have the director's support um and and great professionals at the city level.

Um let's consolidate that due diligence formation.

Let's make sure we get clean title.

Let's make sure that if we're buying it, we're knowing it has environmental contamination, understanding how bad that environmental contamination is.

If it's if it's a super unfund site, DOT, God bless you, right?

Um, we're not going to take that piece.

Uh again, thoughtful, um, sort of iterative approach.

Um, you know, let's figure out where wetlands edge and not edge.

Um we have identified the type of entities uh that have my statute can be created.

Uh, but you can begin to define that, counselor, what the city would like to have happen and see if that stands up relative to the goals of the North End um and statutory requirements.

Um so no one's suggesting boom, here's the quasi, you know, here's the dirt.

And that's certainly not what happened at 195.

That was a result of many, many work.

Um we gotta we'll figure it out pretty quickly whether or not we have statewide support uh realistically, it's an election cycle, right?

It's gonna be challenging.

We don't know who our next governor will be.

Uh we we probably may not even know who the next speaker is going to be.

Uh but we have very capable leadership at the state house today.

Um, and I think that this objective relative to North End and support of the city of Newport uh doesn't sit with one politician or or you know, one speaker or one president of the Senate.

You know, this is a statewide objective that has is objectively good um for the city and for the state.

So I think kind of engaging in that and then engaging is it real or is it not real?

Um and and keep going, push forward.

Um lots and lots of conversation is had has happened um around you know, neighborhood input and charrats, very important.

Uh but let's start moving toward concrete action um in the north end because it's well understood, uh it's well characterized, and I think the city, I'm sure there are arguments about this, but generally I think has a pretty good idea uh uh of what it would like to see happen up there and how do we begin to codify that?

But codification happens after we know our engineering reality.

So Colin, do you recommend that the council take action uh officially as a next step and a realistic and part of a realistic action plan?

Do you suggest we, for example, compose a resolution uh which would endorse essentially what the commission is saying and perhaps even uh appoint a liaison um perhaps even yourself to uh to act on our behalf with DOT with DEM, etc.

I think the first question I I'm not comfortable in doing we're we're we're an advisory commission counselor.

Um you've heard our recommendations.

Um I I know what I would do, but I don't want to I I think it's really incumbent upon the council to uh we're always here as a resource to to share our perspective or experience.

Uh uh, but yes, we would recommend public control of the dirt.

Um, I think on the liaison side, I think a tiger team is a Navy term, um, you know, of different departments.

We have, you know, you have a great engineer, you have great planning professionals, you have great city management support, pretty small group um can can manage that without costing a nickel, um, as long as attorney bean is willing to help.

I you know, I think that there's uh there's you have the resources today to advance this without spending much money or if any.

Um so uh but um again, I don't want I'm sorry not to kind of prevaricate around that, but advice commission.

Sorry, no, sorry.

Um no, all good.

Um I'm curious about that um center of authority that we talked about a little bit earlier.

How much involvement, like you've seen these before?

So, how much involvement have you seen from boards and commissions that already exist or community when it comes to these centers for authority?

I think a lot of involvement from the community and from boards and commissions that already exist.

Yeah, you know, the you know, I I would go to even to the extent, you know, in there's still there's design review uh 195 that basically is the city of province uh that is functions as the design review committee with a third party architect.

Uh so there's no, you know, again, I there's there's lots of permutations of this.

Uh what we're talking about today, um, you know, post-completion, post-infrastructure, sale execution.

We believe there should be a single center of authority.

But today, the primary issue for the next five, 10 years is we gotta get it, get a buy it.

You gotta figure out how to permit it, you gotta figure out how to get our adjacent parcels to cooperate, and we gotta figure out how we resource getting all that cool stuff, you know, into into the north end.

Um so to be honest with you, that that's a very difficult proposition unto itself.

And then I don't know how that happens uh when you have an engineering department that has lots and lots and lots and lots of demands on it already.

Okay, you have a planning department that has lots and lots and lots of demands on it already.

Um and even if you just hired one great professional, you know, it takes more than one great professional to pull this off.

And it takes authority.

I think not just the professional capabilities, counselor, but it has to be like it has to be powerful, the center.

It has to have um it has to have the ability to push through in a meeting like this with the the head of wastewater management, the the head of stormwater management, the head of wetlands, the head of remediation.

Guys, we're gonna get this done.

We're all on the same team.

We're gonna get this done.

Do we have engineering solutions that satisfy?

Don't say no.

Tell us how we get there.

Um, how do we achieve the same objectives in a more creative way?

If it doesn't have any power, it's cocktail conversation.

Colin, uh lot of great questions going on, a lot of good conversation.

Are you finished with this?

I am sure.

Yes, sir.

Sorry.

I'm gonna say before we get too far down.

No, it's my ammo.

We have a lot of good conversations.

I won't pour you anymore, Mary.

Um, at what point, and maybe this is for uh city manager Kennedy.

Have we had um just like a group of like our Newport departments together to go over everything?

So I know we have we have two very well-intended people sitting over here with Teresa and Trish and would rather see at this table as well.

So I know we have we have two very well-intended people sitting over here with Teresa and Trish and would rather see at this stable as well, but uh so we can come up with our own um after we after we get this this report what we want to do and making sure that we have a immunity.

We have the staff has been very engaged in the vision, but as as Colin mentioned, some of that vision is for lack of a better term, a little bit pie in the sky at this point because of what we don't know about the infrastructure.

We have also done quite a bit already with the city staff in terms of uh phasing, uh especially in the Department of Utilities with the contract that we have with Jacobs Engineering in laying the groundwork for some permitting factor the technical report that's that's expected in January of 26.

Um and and phase one of that particular activity involves the Prescott Hall area, um, some of the directional drilling that's been going on in that area, and and water storage, storm water storage.

Uh that particular phase is about 90% complete.

So uh we are fairly well advanced in some of the efforts already.

It's a question of in the future, do we do we take the groundwork that has been laid and ultimately turn that over to a uh to a to a third party authority?

Um that we don't know yet because we don't know how that's that's shape shaking out.

But um, to your question about the the city staff's involvement in in some of the site development and design concepts, that's that's been ongoing and remains ongoing.

Uh it's probably more mature than a lot of folks realize, but there's still so many unknowns, and that that that that sheer quantity of own unknowns is really truly daunting, which is where I think frankly, to to Mr.

Kane's point, we we could use some help.

I think that the challenge, Mayor, and this is unrelated to the capabilities of your team.

The challenge is on a piecemeal basis without legal authority, it's very easy for the regulators to say we're not going to do that, Mr.

Schultz.

We're not gonna do that, Miss Green.

Okay, that it's just and that is unrelated to how great they are.

Okay, um it even on a phase basis.

We haven't solved the environmental remediation issue.

Okay, but yeah, we'll get we we haven't figured out where we're gonna we're gonna do all this digging.

What where are we gonna put this stuff?

If the city doesn't we you know, we can't call the OT say, hey, we're gonna put all this junky dirt on top of your junkie dirt already.

So um so that you you again the efforts it's it's a lot of hard, hard work.

Uh not sure it's as coordinated um vis-a-vis the state regulators as it needs to be.

I just want to make sure that we like the city of Newport has uh a desired goal, so if we do get you know um this team that's gonna for all intents and purpose represent our wants and needs, we I want to make sure that we have like this is what we want to do and turn it over to this may say now go get it done, you know, as opposed to having well one group of the of the the department heads might want X on another group might want Y another one.

I want to be make sure that we're like on the same page and so and that's exactly what you need to prevent.

You're right, spot on mayor.

At one time we had a uh building authority, and I'm just wondering if it wouldn't warrant because of the size and scale of you know, and you say Newport small, but for us, this is a big deal.

Oh, I'm saying it's the 24,000 tax base.

That's your challenge.

To have to have a building authority with members on it that have expertise that uh can coordinate with you know, not only the people uh the departments in the city they have to coordinate with, but also the city council.

I think we should look into it.

I I agree.

Um to that end, I think we're we're pretty well positioned to have that discussion.

We uh, you know, to to your question, um Gene, and also to the chair's question about you know what are we doing in terms of a cohesive approach.

As we as we as uh the staff have been working through some of these challenges, we've been purposely trying to mold them within the five pieces of plan that we already have.

In fact, uh uh Director Crean did a great job earlier today of kind of summarizing it all on a two-page white paper.

But we've got the we've got the 2024 now, the 2025 strategic plan.

We draw from that.

We draw from the Jacobs contract, which is a study titled drainage system investigation and flooding analysis, Prescott Hall Watershed, Elizabeth Brook Daylighting and Master Planning.

We have work that's been done by the Eastern Rhode Island Conservation District and the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation um for designing habitat improvements uh to support the watershed.

And then of course, and most importantly, we have the North End Urban Plan and the North End Equitable Development Strategy from 2020 and 2022, respectively.

And so we've been we've been bringing everything in within these umbrellas.

And um to Mr.

Kane's point, uh, these are also the guardrails that that an independent third party district would also lean heavily into to determine what the community wants.

Now, what a community wants is always evolving.

So what we drafted in 2020 may not be the same as 2025.

So do we need to continue to have ongoing dialogue?

Absolutely.

And of course, and I think I think Colin, you'd agree that that that dialogue could continue, whether it be with a city controlled uh authority or a state mandate, uh a state uh uh sponsored authority, correct?

Yeah, what what what happens that I that I have snapped my own personal opinion is and there's been different projects around the city where we get these ideas of things we want to do, and then those ideas start to formulate.

Oh, we want to do this, this would be great.

Oh, we get uh you know, we want to whether it's housing or what we want blue and green economy on all this stuff.

But we don't have like an idea of how much is this even gonna cost us?

So we're doing all this all these things, but we're like, is it gonna is it a million dollars for this parcels?

Is it 10 million dollars?

Like so when let's get like that information first, and then we worry about how much we can spend.

You know, it's like can't go to the grocery store and buy everything in the store if we have 100 in pocket, right?

I mean, but how do we keep it a political?

I mean, I think that's the most important thing, to be honest with you.

I mean, I mean, you know, politics is what has stopped almost every single thing that we've ever tried to do in this city.

So I mean, it's it's the it's the big wall.

So we already have a north end urban plan, which might seem cartoonish, but it does show that the community has participated in the the overlays and those the various zoning areas and the types of things that we want in those areas.

So I I'm you know, I'm just saying, well, you know, how do we keep it a a political I don't know?

So I think and I think it's important.

I mean I do forgive me for my terms.

It's always a I wasn't meant to be arrogant about it.

It's not it's well executed.

Uh it does very much uh take into account um the the community objectives, the neighborhood objectives.

Again, whether that is current uh is up, you know, remains to be seen.

By cartoonish, I meant that it it unfortunately managed expectations that this is all achievable in a short period of time.

When the reality is, even some of the places where buildings are shown, you know, we'd love the community center here.

It's a smoke show wetland.

I mean, it's not going away.

So so it just went a bit out of sequence, but the the fundamental information contained in that is all valuable and can be brought forward.

Uh, but applying the engineering and permitting reality that's not any design standards set up more than like development.

I do think you had an expectation problem.

People saw the the illustrations and well, yeah.

But the the implication of it um is fresh.

It's a good plan.

I think the standards are both thought out.

It could guide development there.

But right now, um, you know, absent uh taking a larger book at the area to get like the peaks field development on one acre plots as opposed to looking at the 23 acres plus.

Right.

Yeah, I yeah, I understand that.

I mean, it's like when you know you're building a new school and they say, you know, the teachers say, What do you want?

You know, well, this is what we want, but we know that it's not uh all possible.

But um, so yes, I I I understand that, but I I don't want us to have to reinvent the wheel by you know going out more community import, more politics involved in this.

It's just it just seems as though we've been we're beyond that now.

And um, you know, any any any project is going to suffer because one counselor wants this and another counselor doesn't.

Uh you know, that's I I want to avoid that.

When do we find out what the what the appraisal is?

So we we already know what it is.

Uh we know the company that did it.

Um do you think I is can I mention that?

Are we at that point?

I Colin, I want to make sure that I I mean it doesn't, it's it doesn't help.

I I think that again, I the the challenge with the appraiser mayor um is, and I I think I suggested this in public.

I figured this is going to happen.

They would say, well, yeah, here's what was paid for slots per acre, and we're just gonna apply that to the same acres next door.

Uninformed by wow, there's a giant drainage structure here.

Wow, there's a wetland here.

Wow, this stuff has no utilities.

Wow, you can't eat the dirt.

So it's that it was a very, very simplistic appraisal.

Um not denigrating DOT, uh, they followed a process, uh, but there's there's it it could be better informed, but it still won't be free.

It doesn't go to zero.

You want to get our own appraisal.

I uh I mean I preliminarily speaking, I would recommend that.

Um that's a subject for a executive discussion, uh exact executive session discussion in greater detail.

But preliminarily, yes, I would certainly we at least need to get a second opinion, just like you would for anything major in your life.

Medical situation, uh uh you know, a major purchase you want to get a second opinion.

I think that it behooves us to get that.

But would the does the state um sort of I've been told that what the state wants is what the state wants.

I mean, do we is our appraisal does it mean anything?

It reconciles.

I mean, again, it really depends on DOT DOT accepts it and then federal highway endorses it and the methodology.

That's the number.

Uh that there's no one, we're not playing let's make a deal with DOT.

They're following legislated standards.

Um, and that's what they follow today's.

Um just like and I believe the city has been engaged in other takings or how does it how does our an assessment from the city play into this price tech?

You talked to me.

I think what yeah, what we look for is a and we do a request for proposals from a and we're what we're ultimately looking for, the way we write the RFP is we're looking for a firm that has experience in true land use cases because candidly I don't think that's what Ride Ot is they went to the master price agreement, they had a request for proposals from people that do services for specific types of appraisals, and they it met qualifications, and as Mr.

Kane said, they were awarded the contract, and appraisal was done.

But that firm may not have the expertise in land use and development of the process.

But will the state take that our assessment or our appraisal into consideration?

The the test we will the test is fair market value.

So if for some reason Colin's right, I mean the state is probably gonna take the position that this is our appraisal, so this is a fair market value.

But if we were able to show them through our appraisal that mistakes were made, and they question whether that was fair market value, then it's possible that it could be helpful.

Okay.

So the key is fair market value.

Uh that's what the feds want in the fair value market as of today, or at the time today.

Uh of what?

Today, in terms of today's condition.

Okay, because I thought I heard you say something about at the um at uh fair market value at the time of the purchase during when the bridge was done.

That was like 1930.

No, that was that was back in the day.

Yeah, they had to pay fair market value too.

They took it.

Okay, at that, okay, I understand what you're saying.

Okay.

But Colin, I uh forgive me if I'm wrong.

Uh about 40 minutes ago, uh, you told us, and I agree, uh, about the great expertise that RIDOT and others within the state have regarding this very question.

Uh the question of how much is the land worth, and you uh followed up by saying because they've done this so many times and they do it so frequently.

So are we veering on a different path now than what you said maybe 40 minutes ago or so?

No, I don't they'll follow a process.

They uh uh as the city manager said, they they they went to the master price, they they hired uh an appraiser, and the appraiser followed the logic that I thought they might uh you know, even a year ago.

Um, but we have an opportunity to inform that appraisal.

And again, DOT is there are our partners, uh counselor.

So um that's why I say stay close to DOT and let's convince them of the accuracy of our appraisal, um, and then let them convince Federal Highway that it's fair market value.

Ultimately, fair federal highway is the arbiter in this.

Um again, I just in fairness to DOT, they they probably have a thousand properties.

They didn't they didn't mail it in, they followed their process.

Yeah, Mr.

Correct.

Correct.

Hey, uh Mr.

Mr.

Santilli, uh I I think he was half joking, but I believe the number was correct.

I don't think he would have pulled it out of his head.

He said he's in the middle of working on 70 73 different real estate projects right now.

So uh he he conceded that this is just one in a lengthy pile for for for me.

So I got the distinct impression, so did so did Mike that that um if we can persuade and convince with with with a data-driven approach that the appraisal had some flaws, I think they will absolutely cooperate with us.

They and and and Mr.

Kane is right, they've been very, very cooperative so far.

We're very, very appreciative of Ride Out properties and real estate and and and their support so far.

Before we make that decision, which I tend to agree with, uh that is based on what Tom said and what Colin said it's a third-party appraiser, it's not DOT itself doing the appraisal.

Uh therefore we can't rely necessarily on those years of experience.

But before we do it, uh we should have an understanding of course of what the actual appraisal is and whether uh I mean we we don't want to if DOT says the land's worth seven million based on our appraiser, and we then go ahead and hire an appraiser uh for a hundred thousand dollars as our consultant, our own third party advisor, uh and he comes back and says, or whatever it is.

I don't care if it's ten dollars.

Uh and he comes back and says or she comes back and says the property's worth nine million.

Two million more than what the state said.

That I we have wasted the ten dollars.

I can assure you, counselor, you know, with the benefit of the the efforts of uh of the commission um and and your engineering and planning team, we will not come out with nine million dollars.

So um uh so and I think the range between ten and twenty thousand dollars would be you know kind of where she probably lands.

I don't want that's where the market would say.

With the embrace, yes, sir.

Correct.

Yeah.

And essentially your your guarantee.

I think I'm giving my sign up.

My professional opinion based on 28 years in the real estate business concept.

That guy is gonna go give us an appraisal, which is less than it was mailed in the first one.

Hey, hey, Colin, um this is to one of counselor Carlin's points earlier in the evening.

Um, do you foresee a scenario whereby if we're not let's just hypothetically, let's say we we're pursuing the idea of a third-party state sponsored uh governance body.

If that's not ready to kind of set up within the next year or two, but but Ride Out is eager to sell and to get into purchase and sale agreements.

Do you foresee a uh uh a scenario whereby we the land is conveyed to us for a fee and then we in turn convey it to a then future budgeted uh governance authority?

Or conversely, is there a is it is it just a situation where once we buy it, no matter who the governance authority is, too bad you already bought it.

No, I I again I'm not a lawyer.

I mean I'm assuming if the city bought it, it would have to sell it to somebody.

You can't just give it to somebody.

So thereby it would have way more market right discussion.

So in a way, we could potentially get reimbursed, you know, plus or minus some appreciation or deep if we can figure out how to resource it correctly.

Some of those entities can be created pretty quickly.

These are already enabled in legislation.

Um so they could be quick.

Um, I think we would want to if we paid for it and then we conveyed it to uh another entity, we would probably want to make sure that bond council, there could be reimbursement correct um with for that authority back to the city um for the purchase price.

So those are a few little things we could we look into.

You know, the you're gonna have to graduate approach and comments on form.

Speed sentence do it's a city quasi.

Um that's gonna take more time, but it you know it gives you the financial assurance state.

It's a kind of risk management decision on how fast the property has to go through this process.

How long do you want to wait for an answer to the state?

One session, two sessions.

Um the potential seats on that on that body, uh ideally we'd have a a decent proportion of newport representation, but we know there would be some state representation as well.

Um Colin, from your experience on the on the 1950 uh commission, um, did you find that having state legislators from other parts of the state or regulatory actors who then sat on this board?

Did it give them visibility into a part of the state they might not have otherwise paid much attention to?

The reason I asked that question is because if one of our concerns is always that nobody sees Newport is one of the potential secondary advantages to this, having some legislative and and regulatory visibility in the city that might not have otherwise existed.

Yeah, I I just like having you know it was it was good to be able to call the the president of the Senate, speaker of the house and say, I can't get a meeting with DEM, we need a meeting.

We need a meeting.

Um, you know, DOT is not helping on they helped everywhere.

But uh you know, that's what you get if you have strong state leadership help.

Um whether we can achieve the same objective through a Newport standalone, it it's really it's a judgment call as Tom describes uh city manager.

Um you know, I would say actually the the more the more challenging of our of our commission members were the Providence folks because they they would they would trade politics, they would try to trade favors, and it was challenging to kind of, and that's Providence.

I know that's not Newport, but uh it actually became harder to manage than someone that was perhaps from elsewhere and had a more of a statewide perspective on the property.

Everyone's got a guy, right?

Um so but uh uh but mayor, I mean, we're we as a commission, um it was a privilege to serve uh the city.

Uh uh it was more of a privilege uh uh uh uh uh to work with your city staff, uh just incredible professionals.

Um uh great great counselors.

Uh we we had great support at every state entity we interacted with.

Uh, you know, we are really confident that there's a a realistic path forward uh that can achieve a lot of wonderful things that are consistent with the neighborhood objectives and the city's objectives.

Um in the absence of that, we're gonna be looking at what we see today, you know, for a very long time.

So uh, but all of us are available as a resource anytime, anywhere.

Um, because we like like working with y'all.

Thank you.

Any further questions from the council?

And then well, Colin and and and the commission, thank you guys so very much for the work you guys did.

It's it's been incredible.

Thank you.

I I would also be remiss if I didn't thank the the council that selected that group because they did a hell of a job selecting you guys.

So then thank you very much.

Look forward to