Yeah.

Good now.

Technology is supposed to make your life easier.

Thank you, Dryce.

All right.

Welcome everyone to the Thursday, November 6th meeting of the Business and Community Affairs Committee.

Today we have three items on the agenda.

The first being a report on special events attendance and visitors.

And I believe that Mr.

Olsen, Mr.

Shim, have a presentation for us.

So I'm going to turn it over to you.

Perfect.

Believe it or not, it's been about a year since we've done one of these.

We were planning on doing quarterly.

I think we got a little busy, and hopefully we'll get back into the habit of doing these.

But they're awfully fun to go look through and figure out especially these all these cool special events and festivals that we have in town and looking at our Norm Ford projects and other events that the university puts on, and even looking at our shopping centers to kind of figure out what kind of traffic's getting driven to Norman.

But uh we'll start off with well, first of all, we we never want to ignore me can out of uh out at Rees Park, which is our public art project.

He's over here supervising fireworks.

Uh I think this is from 2024.

So he is always out there making sure the baseball is getting played correctly.

Um medieval fairs happening, the technology in that robot is fantastic.

Uh this is kind of a full look over the past year since last time we did one of these reports to kind of look who's been in our town and um what what the average uh workload is.

So you look at that first uh first line that is going monthly, month by month about how many um unique visitors are coming in in town, and they have to be in um side city limits or for uh uh so long for them to actually count on that.

So you can see that that uh it does tick up in the fall, and that is connected to our uh football games when we have uh uh you know about seven football games a year, and that's attached to that.

We also have uh busy months in May, and that's attached to more likely to our grad graduation OU.

And then you do see a little bit of high high ticker ticks up in March and April, and that's our um usually our good festival seasons that we have going on.

That bottom line uh over there is uh what we call our employee line.

So that's this uh an average uh of people who are coming in and out of Norman on a daily basis uh or a monthly basis actually to work, and that's just a all in report when you start looking at those months.

Uh like we said, we haven't done this in about a year, so we went and grabbed information from all of our major festivals that we've had um uh in the past calendar year of 2025.

Start out with uh midieval fair, uh, and we'll go in there and even have a graph a little bit later on, but uh kind of uh ticking along.

We had a little bit of a rainy season uh in the spring, so that kind of hurt and dampened uh a little bit of our our visitors that came in, but on Friday night you can see that we had 15 or 10 up to 15,000 on Saturday, 22,000 on Sunday, which is if I remember right was our sunniest day, about 48,000 total.

You look at Norm Music Festival.

Uh, I think we also had some rain.

Um, but we had a large amount of rain that came in the night before, and I think it was on and off for throughout that whole weekend, but 53,000 come through there.

Pride festival that happens out over at Andrews Park.

That's a one-dayer.

Um about 4,000 people um in and out of Andrew's Park during that day, medieval fair, or uh excuse me.

I'm still used to saying middle fair, but uh Mayfair, which is uh recently popped back up over the past few years in campus corner, uh around 12,000 people uh counted through that jazz in June, 7200 people over in Andrews Park.

Uh Juneteenth uh in Reese Park, we have about 5200 that also, which is a really high number.

We also had I think it was game six of the NBA finals that night.

Um so I think that actually kind of might have hurt that number.

Uh then July 4th, uh one of our big bigger numbers in recent memory, uh almost 17,000 people, and that's just in the park.

So if you start looking outside of the um outskirts of the park, you start seeing um you we probably would have captured a lot more.

We always have a lot of people setting up um in Lloyd Noble going out even to the Walmart people um parking garages at OU.

People have their um usual traditions where they set up camp every year for fourth vests, and then our most recent one um that we just did.

Unfortunately, weather messed with that one too.

Uh downtown fest actually happened over at the WIFAC, and we had about 2800 people that ran through that.

Uh so just taking a uh a chance to look at the these numbers and line graphs uh going on.

So you start looking at year by year.

I remember uh getting a lot of text from our festival organizers telling us where all our drainage problems were.

You get a couple of inches of rain, and it does help you figure out where uh the park is holding water.

Uh but you can go in here and you see the the highest curb uh was back in 2023.

Uh we would um probably go go look at that and probably attach that that to whatever weather we're happening to have at that um year.

Uh downtown festival.

Uh you you look at that.

We did that this end.

So it got did move to the YFAC due to weather, and uh we did have that peak time right there at around seven o'clock.

Uh the festival did last from six to nine.

Uh it was pretty cool inside there.

Uh it's always interesting to see events and different events that happen in there.

They pack that place full of uh moon bounces, and then when you start talking about uh the versatility and how awesome it is to have a place like that in a moment's notice where you can shift a very important community event like that.

It's a great alternative to always have that in your back pocket.

Uh start talking about uh shopping districts around Norman.

Um that top line that you see up there, that is uh the UMP that always uh stays uh very very high up at the top of those numbers.

In fact, it's the most visited shopping center in the Oklahoma City area.

Uh it it um a lot of people go through there.

Um don't know how it ends up.

You always think uh my mind, I think it would be um Penn Square or or someplace up in Oklahoma City, but yeah, it is UMP that ends up having those people uh visit that.

Uh, but then you kind of go look through there and you start looking at all these other colors.

Uh the of course the the brown up top is uh university um town center, and then you got uh Sooner Mall, which is your your light blue line.

If we can find that in there, uh downtown Norman is uh that red line.

Of course, we have a lot of events and um really great restaurants that that help out in downtown historical uh campus corner is that TIL number, and that's probably coordinated with school.

You kind of see the lower dips during the summer when um school is out.

So it's it is kind of fun to see see where people are going to um spend their money in Norman.

Uh always always seems like uh UMP still hanging out there at the top.

Uh these are our numbers.

Uh we always take a look at our Norm Ford projects and uh WiFac.

It's kind of looks like I imagine somebody's um heartbeat would look a lot like uh but uh those numbers when you start seeing them ticking up there, those are our weekend numbers when we have events uh do uh do pretty well consistently scheduling those.

Uh we're about ready to hand ahead into our tournament season.

Uh as soon as fall sports wraps up, get out of football, we start hitting basketball and basketball is uh all the way until the summer, and then it kind of slows down as you closer you get to school.

Um this is a uh parkson rec one that should have been before the other one.

So kind of apologize this one slipped in a little bit there, but this is a graph of all of our North Ward, major North Ward projects.

So you can kind of see where the uh the visiting is uh Reeves ticks up really high right there around um Native fair time and uh stays pretty consistent all the way through uh until you get to the high hot, hot, hot time of summer.

Uh and then Westwood, you always see that that spike, of course, around the summertime.

Uh speaking of Westwood, here is our numbers to go along with that.

Uh see there's a few days we go out there and we have around 2,500 to 3,000 people that uh show up.

Those are coordinated.

Uh we also had a wet, we can talk about wet springs and everything.

We had an unbelievable wet summer uh when we probably put our totals on it.

You can tell you can tell that uh especially that start of the summer when we were signing up pass holders, that does have a large effect on if how many people I signed up.

The previous two summers, I would say 2025, 2024, we had 7,000 plus.

I think we were in the um low 6,000s this year, and we do think that was all how wet um the summer started out with.

You want those hot days because you want people to get out there you know to the park.

Uh same thing right here, you kind of see uh those big bleaks you see that going up.

Uh medieval fair and then July 4th.

And then of course, you uh just like any other park you would see, especially tied to sports, those uh little little smaller um dips or weekends when they have baseball tournaments out there.

Griffin Park is March 1st.

Uh uh annual um Celtic Cup I have out there is probably one of the biggest youth soccer tournaments in the state.

It's uh I forgot how much they'd had 250-ish teams that sign up for that every single year, and of course, uh I think you start seeing these weekend blips again.

Well, that's just us having tournaments and regular league play out there at Griffin, and anybody that drives by on a Saturday uh morning to late afternoon um understands so what's going on out there at Griffin, and I think that's the the Jason and City portion of that, and we'll have to answer any of those questions go along with that.

Uh uh email to us this presentation.

Yes, ma'am.

I think we sent that to sorry I got it together really really late, but we get uh I got it over to the city clerk's office super late.

Brenda said she sent it out to you guys.

I saw the agenda, I didn't see the it probably came in the last 20, 30 minutes.

That's how late we got it.

Yeah, I'd like to look into some of those numbers when they're not small.

You can blow it up on your own screen later.

And don't compare my presentation to dance.

Uh it's not fair.

My marketing team made me step my game up.

Anything else before I go?

Floor is yours.

Yes.

All right.

Yeah, so this is actually our new Digidex software.

I guess it's PowerPoint on steroids, but we're able to send proposals for conferences and tournaments and things directly to those events holders, and they get a link and we can track it all.

And so uh kind of a neat new toy.

But um, so the what I'll look at here, you can kind of see the dates up top.

Uh so I'm going year to date, uh, July 1, 2025 through uh um October or um, yeah, October 17th.

January 1st.

Yeah, what did I say?

July.

Thank you.

And July 1 is my start fiscal year start date cycle.

Again, miss rehearsal earlier as well.

So let's see, how do I scroll down here?

There we go.

I'll just use my finger.

So for uh for that time frame, how are visitors uh impacting our economy?

And this software is uh Zardeco, it's tracking cell phones, it's tracking credit card spend, it also tracks um actual hotel stays through key data.

So it's the credit card swipes.

There's also some uh information we get where it's self-reported by hotels, but we like the actual data a little bit better that comes from this.

So you can see here percent of uh visitors uh down slightly the same period last year, but the total visitor spend is the same.

Um percent spend of restaurant uh and retail, everything is pretty flat.

Although I would like to point out um arts, entertainment attraction spend by visitors is up 5% from the prior year.

So that's uh that's a great sign and a testament to what a great arts community Norman has, and some of those festivals and things that we're we're talking about.

But um restaurant spend pretty uh even retail spend down slightly, arts and attraction spending pretty good, and you know that holds to what we're seeing citywide with uh sales tax being pretty flat.

I think the uh um recreational budgets are impacted a bit from our visitors with the way the economy's going.

Top visitor markets, we see this pretty steady.

Um we do see a lower impact, uh slightly lower 1% from Dallas, but that's our big market always.

Tulsa, Oklahoma City at Sherman Ada, Wichita Falls Lawton uh is always up there as well.

And then where are visitors going?

Um they're visiting when they're here, they're going to food and beverage, retail, education uh is the University of Oklahoma's campus.

Um now one of the um one of the things in here when we look at um spending data, which isn't up yet, but if you buy concessions at Owen Field, um that counts as food and beverage spend versus sports spend.

So when you look at sports, we'll we'll go into that later, but it uh it's a lower spin, but it's because it's all categorized in there.

But here's our visitors by region and what they're uh going to.

You see, we've got uh some out there at Lake Thunderbird.

Um we get that um deal there at uh or the the circle at the University of Oklahoma.

Um, but that's kind of the regions that our our visitors are going to.

And then if I go to the home, yeah, those uh I go back.

And then if I go to the go back, my mouse isn't working for some reason, so we'll do that.

Yeah, I was curious.

It looks like one of those dots might be the weather center or Lloyd Noble Center.

But like what's the one on the far west 60th?

Yeah, uh it's out there.

Is that you know visitors, right?

That's what that's where visitors are coming from.

It's uh it's where they're going.

Now, what they're you're putting here, these are kind of I had to map every inch of Norman.

And so I think when you look at West Norman, they just put the dot there.

So I think that's this whole west of I-35.

So that can include um Brookhaven Village and the big dot at the UNP area.

That's right.

Okay.

That's right.

So they they just had to, when I mapped it, they just kind of put it in the middle of that map in the region that we did.

So here, that same time period, um, we look at occupancy for the year to date, and it's up 6% for the year.

So though spending kind of is holding steady, we're getting um more people staying in the hotels than we did the prior year.

So that's that's great from our perspective.

We like uh that because that OPM, other people's money for their hotel rooms creates the guest tax, which funds our arts and our parks, and then uh our marketing efforts through Visit Norman as well, the sports commission.

So um average daily rate really flat.

Um RevPAR is that revenue per available room.

That's really what the hotels look at.

Um, so they like seeing that rev par up a bit.

And when you talk to Zardico, who creates this, or we get this data from, we are really looking good relative to many of our peer communities.

They're all seeing declines or dips, so even holding steady right now is good, and so being up is great.

We see demand up four percent, length of stay kind of held steady, booking window, hotel revenue is up, which is good, uh stay value is up, and then you see here STVR short-term vacation rentals.

Um, the occupancy was down slightly for those.

Um, I don't know if we had fewer on the market.

Um, but average daily rate for those was up almost 20%.

Um, so I guess the the fewer on the market meant that they were able to uh charge a little bit more.

Here you see hotel demand by month.

We know that our slow months, if if this was showing December also, it would be loaded.

Slow months and disregard that November 2025, because obviously today is the what 6th.

So those numbers will go way up.

But December, January are typically our slow times of the year.

Um, but you can see the darker green is the demand for this year.

Um the light green is last year, so we're up on demand for I think every month, which is a good sign.

Average booking window.

Um, that's just how far out people are booking.

Um, and that's up slightly, but it that helps us as we're trying to figure out when should we really target people with the uh the creeper ads.

Um you went to our website.

At what point do we really hit you hard?

And so we look anywhere from uh uh in January, February, March, it's way shorter, so we can do some more targeted delay um advertising to them as it goes further.

We want to, you know, when they're booking, we want to time our ads right.

So that's how we use all of that.

Then you see here occupancy, as we talked about, uh is up.

January is always a slow month for us, but uh those mid to upper 60s are always a good sign.

Once again, that November will go up as we get all of the data in ADR.

We looked at that.

You can kind of see it broken down by month here on that left chart.

Um, it is pretty flat.

The September number from last year, those coincide with football games that we'll go into, but um I think that that bump in ADR was because of football back then.

So and then you see RevPAR, but really that's a hotel number, it's right on track, which is uh which is good, and then revenue, and there's our our room count as well.

So you see there we're talking that uh dip in short-term vacation rentals, so I don't know.

That's something we should probably dig into.

I don't know why there was a decrease in those starting in September of this year.

So kind of interesting what happened there.

So um we'll start doing some research into that.

With that, I wanted to uh end this portion.

You guys I'm sure have seen this, but this is the guest tax collection.

So if you look at last year, we're of course in fiscal year 26 already.

But for FY25 here in June, we ended the year at almost 15% increase last year for the fiscal year.

This year has started off really strong.

I think Anthony will get the next numbers for to see October soon.

Um I think I got it on the 10th of October, so should be coming.

But for the first three months of FY26, we are almost up 25% from last year, which was up 15%.

So that's a great sign for uh for guest tax.

So that's all I've got on that one.

I will move into the football presentation, unless there are questions.

Dan it is there a way, or maybe this already includes people coming to Norman for healthcare services.

So I think there would probably be a way to track Zardico just upgraded their geolocation tracking.

That's always where it wasn't quite as good, and I had to rely on Sarah and Ural Software Placer AI.

But I'm guessing between the two softwares now, we could geofence Norman Regional and get zip codes of where people are coming from.

And so if you guys are interested in that, that's something we could look at.

I'll get Sarah.

I would just be curious to know how much out-of-town support comes in for our healthcare system.

Thank you.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, let me go back to the start here.

Okay.

So I we want to do a recap of the entire football season once it's done, but I knew you guys had asked.

So just put it together, and I keep the running tabs here, but uh, we know the season kicked off August 30th here.

And I never miss a chance to put uh our Heisman winners up here, so that's always fun.

GBA.

So the schedule this year, we kicked off the 30th.

We've had um five games so far, two to go, and we know that November 29th game.

Daryl, you've got the police ready to go, right?

For LSU.

Um we have heard they're uh they're pretty rowdy.

Um so week one was versus Illinois State.

Now, this was this coincided.

Um go back here.

So this was um September or August.

August 30th.

Yeah.

So we had a game last year, same weekend, but it was a Friday, if you'll recall.

So um, when we're looking at year over year, it gives us a pretty good comparison.

Um, our occupancy was down just slightly, 60 to 61%, so pretty flat.

Average daily rate uh was up 10%.

So people were paying more.

Once again, that uh helps with that guest tax collection.

Um length of stay was the exact same, but stay value was up because of that average daily rate and the uh the spin.

So you see here short-term vacation rentals, those Airbnbs was up 7% on occupancy, up 44% on ADR.

And if you look here, that now it's not apples to apples when you're looking here because a hotel room includes singles and doubles, and this is a whole house potentially.

So when you look at the difference in rates, that that is why that's there.

Um booking window, occupancy.

So you look here, um, dark green again is this year, light green is last year.

Um, Friday, of course, is a Friday game.

So we had a higher occupancy.

We start ramping up uh on those days.

But the first game, Illinois State is always a there's not as many.

I think they're the Red Hawks.

There's not as many Illinois State fans that are traveling.

Um, so we get a lot of local folks using those tickets up if you're in the metro, you're driving.

So we'll see upper night mid upper 90s for future games, but 83% on Saturday, and then that Sunday, just a funky thing where it's start of the week, but that's when everyone clears out.

So they leave Sunday and ADR.

You'll see our ADR was up.

Um, even for the Friday night game, it was higher on our Friday night for this year.

And let's see, RevPar, of course.

Uh you see there, everyone.

I I recall the Friday night game.

That was the uh Labor Day weekend.

So everyone skedaddled and went to the game Friday and hit their holiday last year.

So we're up RevPar significantly.

So all right, we'll go then visitor snapshots.

69% of out of state visitors this year up slightly.

Um spin towards local businesses down just slightly.

Um the average spend was exactly the same, and you can kind of see where people are coming from.

This is gonna look similar, although you'll notice here my there's my cursor.

Uh we have that Illinois State.

So the the dot Chicago is uh all those visitors, and then where are they spending their money?

This is where that spend I was talking about food and beverage.

Um that includes the concessions in the stadium.

Tickets are not included in any of these numbers because those are all bought ahead of time, they're bought through tertiary parties or tickets.

So um we don't have that um that ticket information.

So when our sports is 10%, uh that's kind of misleading there because it doesn't include those ticket prices.

But that's why food and beverage is so high, all those concession sales within the stadium.

But we also know people like to eat and drink while they're here attending a football game.

So our top visitor markets you see here, these are all OU fans coming from Texas, Oklahoma, other places, and these are the people that are staying in hotels.

This is stuff we really dig into to help us with our marketing and advertising.

So I'll move on.

Just the executive polls.

Uh 19% of the people in the destination were visitors.

That was down a bit from last year.

Visitors are 50 miles or greater, so we have that whole metro area that's here.

Spending though from visitors was up, which is a good sign.

Retail spending was up, restaurant spending was up slightly, arts and entertainment um was down.

I think that's timing of what events are happening here.

Um restaurant spend uh actually is pretty flat.

Retail spend down slightly.

So, and this is some of the same information you were getting before.

So we'll move on to uh week number two.

So this was Michigan, and um kind of some of our hotels that we heard from Tennessee was the high watermark last year.

Uh this year, Tennessee um or Michigan uh was higher than that.

So this was let's see, I should have kept that schedule up.

Um yeah, Jason, pull that up.

So we had a September 7th.

So this was uh last year, the Houston game.

So we had a home game, still apples to apples with the football game, but not Michigan.

Uh so occupancy was 76%.

That includes the Sunday where everyone leaves town, average daily rate up 57% for those three nights.

Revpar, of course, was up, demand up significantly, length of stay uh was up.

Yeah, thanks.

So September 6th, September 7th was the game last year.

So these includes that.

So and we knew people would stay longer when they come.

Michigan fans are staying longer, and we're seeing that in average length of stay.

You see that booking window too.

They booked on average 57 days out.

Uh many of them booked way longer than that.

So all at the standard.

Yes, there were uh a lot at the standard.

Um, what I was uh talking with uh to different people throughout, I get to talk to a lot of the visitors when they're here, and um, whether it's Michigan fans or Auburn fans, and they all for first time to Norman for the for a game.

Michigan's never been here.

It really helps me focus on and remember what a great community we have.

All of you here work at solving the problems that Norman has, and no one likes to, they all like to complain, right?

And and send that, but no one says, hey, you're doing a great job.

The Michigan fans, the Auburn fans, that they all to a person said how welcoming we were, what a great town we had, how clean it is, how pretty it is, and so it really refocuses me and helps me remember, you know, Norman is an amazing place, even though we do have to help work on solving the issues.

Every place has them, but man, we've got a great city to live in.

And um they they agreed.

So I'll go through these pretty quickly.

Occupancy, you see there, we're at 93, 95%.

Um, and they hold a few of those rooms back for uh giving um to different people.

So we're we're for all intents and purposes completely full.

Um, you see the year prior for Houston, uh 61% and 88%.

So we are uh we we blew that away.

So we are uh we we blew that away, and then you see here ADR, that average daily room rate um up significantly there, which we love to see for our arts parks and and visit Norman and the hotels love to see that RevPar number up.

Out of state visitors was up slightly.

Um you have all those Texas fans coming, so that's always gonna be, even though they're OU fans, uh similar, but um you see here the percent.

Well, I'll show the percent spin towards local visitors, 55%.

That's up 10%.

So all those Michigan fans when they come, they want to experience uniquely Norman things.

Um then you see there just some different.

We have a few dots here that Illinois and Detroit that uh a little different than we we generally see, and then once again, this will all kind of be the same.

So I'll go over it, but food and beverages is always the highest for these football game weekends.

18% in the destination were visitors, but percent of total spending in the destination was up 20 up 22% of the total spending was from visitors, up 8% from that prior year.

So all right, week uh uh versus Auburn.

We had the away game at Temple, and then we had uh Auburn, so September 28th.

This uh this one won't correlate.

There was the Tennessee game was September 21st.

So average daily rate for Auburn wasn't as high as Michigan.

Um and what was the Tennessee game date for the Auburn date?

20th.

Okay, so this does correlate.

I'm sorry.

Uh so you'll notice here I was telling you uh Tennessee was the high watermark.

So Auburn did not hit the Tennessee numbers.

Uh we were uh we were down slightly, and you see 82% for uh Tennessee.

They came early, they stayed late, and uh that was always great to see.

Um short-term vacation rental numbers here, once again, not quite as high as Tennessee.

But occupancy, um, I thought everyone would want to come boo Jackson Arnold, but um it wasn't quite as uh we didn't have that uh anger maybe towards him that I anticipated.

So 86% still really good.

Um, and then that ADR 286.

You think of a uh big game in the big 12, we were lucky to get 199 a night.

Um, so we're still getting way more than that in a down week for um for the SEC.

So 65% out of state visitors, um, 59% of visitor spend was towards local businesses.

That's always my favorite thing to see, and then uh not a lot of Auburn fans showing up here.

I'll have to ask them why that is, but umce again, food and beverage retail education is where they're going.

That's the campus.

So then I'll go through fast here.

Um executive pulse, 23% were from out of town, 20% of spending was uh was from visitors.

October 4th.

This one uh occupancy was up October.

We did not have a an we didn't have a home game in October last year.

Uh so we're up.

ADR obviously, you see that 136.

That's the difference between a football game weekend and not having a football game.

Parents weekend was this weekend, yeah.

This was Kent State.

So that's why not an SEC game, but we still packed.

Uh the other thing I will mention is we have Visit Norman has been doing a shuttle from downtown to campus corner.

We attempted that the first weekend for Michigan, we rented carts, but without owning them, and the ones we're renting are not street legal, and so I couldn't get insurance on them.

So we paused, and now for Kent State, we picked it back up.

Um we had to buy two street legal six passenger golf carts.

Those have been really successful.

I think we could uh if we can figure out a way.

I don't have a need at Visit Norman for a whole fleet of golf carts, except for these six, seven weekends a year.

So we figure out a way to get more, they would be heavily utilized for these weekends, and uh the Kent State um visitors loved them.

Um Auburn, we didn't get to do them for, but at Auburn, the week we had to mint a skip.

We had Auburn's fans asking about hey, is are these carts around?

And let's say not this week, but we're excited about that and looking for ways to partner in the future.

So um we'll just scroll down here.

You see occupancy 96, 95%, and ADR uh 406 and 412.

Those Texas parents uh are coming and um spending a lot of money while they're here.

So um percent spend towards local businesses, 64%, um, which is always awesome.

Uh 67 average spend.

We'll keep just keep going because I know you guys have other stuff.

24% spending in the destination from visitors, and then we've got uh this game was I should remember is Mississippi.

Yeah.

Date was the 25th.

So we did not as an away game at Old Miss last year.

So this is once again comparing to a non-football game weekend.

Um, this was homecoming.

Average daily rate was 285, occupancy 71%.

So we'll go down here and look at occupancy 95 and 87% for Friday and Saturday, with uh 312 and 311 for our ADR, which is really good.

Spending here, this is uh this didn't populate for me.

There was some sort of uh data cannot be retrieved error.

Um but if we look at this once again, the same thing.

I didn't like that weekend.

Um maybe is too soon to uh to get all of that spending data just yet.

So anyway, those are uh that's what I have.

Excellent.

It sounds like year over year, we're up net positive, uh trending in the right direction.

So does anybody have any questions on what we just saw?

I just like to say that I really love the program and how it does break it down so far for us to be able to see exactly because everybody always is asking me, you know, where's that SEC money?

Yeah, and this makes it easier to show that it's spread out everywhere, you know, little segments of that things.

Yeah, definitely helps.

And that is uh uh an average, of course, of all our hotels.

So when you look at those rates and things, it's uh our motel six and the now.

So there's a big so that gets us the middle range and gives us a good idea of it.

All right.

Oh, Maryland.

I was just gonna add that um after the Michigan game, I got a call from a doctor in Houston who's a Michigan fan and came to Norman for the game and uh just said how much uh of a wonderful time that his family had at Norman and at the game, and uh how they went downtown, they went to campus corner, they were thought it was all real exciting that they really enjoyed their stay in Roman that weekend and they looked forward to coming back.

That's right, uh, even without a football game.

So that's great.

Uh one two two ladies from Michigan uh what as I chatted with them, they're leaving scratch, and I said welcome, and they said, you know, everybody has been so nice and gracious.

We just have had such a great time.

It's uh we can't guarantee you're gonna get the same reception in Ann Arbor next year.

So we'll see.

Uh but uh Ann Arbor is one of the communities we use as a uh peer-to-peer university town near Detroit, kind of like we're near OKC.

So uh and I would also like to give a shout out to Mayor Holman.

He uh did drive one of the golf carts uh for a Friday evening.

They we drive them Friday and Saturday night, so it was rainy, and um he was out there um driving visitors around.

So uh I did hear some students that were going, and they their two carts happen to be right next to each other, and they knew the mayor was driving one, they go, Oh, that's the mayor, we're gonna get in that one.

So mayor of the people over there.

So council member grant.

I was just gonna say, I think last time we did talk about uh how much hotel overflow was going to maybe OKC.

Did you ever get an idea?

Yeah, uh they I don't have their their specific numbers, um, but I do know their occupancy, and we have it from last year, and I'll be able to get that in a chart for you at the end of football season.

Last year we saw they were their occupancy was uh up significantly on all of those home game weekends for us.

Um, and they're not only uh attributed to football, they have other events going on, but football is a huge driver for the entire metro area in their hotels.

We have 3,000, there are 83,000 plus in the stadium, so uh it fills the entire metro.

How many hotel rooms are in Oklahoma City?

I want to say it's close to 16,000, but I would need to look at the most recent number on that.

So to kind of expand on your question, we were able to get some of that data from Oklahoma City equivalent of Norman visit Norman.

Um and on the weekend of the Tennessee game, which was the banner for us.

September 21st.

From the previous year where they didn't have a football game that weekend, uh they had a 40% increase in stays for how many rooms?

Like 16,000.

So 40% of 16,000.

Yeah, it's a lot of people.

I mean, there's also there isn't, but it was compared to a previous weekend or uh weekend year before where there wasn't a game in Norman.

So pretty that was a pretty clear indicator on how much was the kind of runoff we have.

Capacity of about 7,000 more hotel rooms potentially in maybe.

I'm actually wondering about the short term rental thing, too.

Yeah, we'll ask uh we'll we'll contact our vendor that helps us track all those and see if they've got any insight as to why our number in decreased rentals decreased.

Yeah, because that's not the complaints I get.

Definitely people are partying.

All right, excellent.

Well, if there's no more questions on that, we're gonna move on to our next item.

Thank you guys.

Um at staff's request, we're gonna bump item three up to the second slot.

So the next item is a discussion regarding the use of blue safety lights and weather stations and safe parts.

Uh way.

Don't blame me.

Yeah.

All right.

So this one will be pretty quick because these are very simple machines, but uh, this is the case blue light, uh emergency tower.

Um, there's a full diagram of it on the side.

It's very simple.

Like I said, it's got a solar panel option that goes on the top.

Um, the blue light, which is kind of your indicator for being able to find it after dark at night if you needed to.

Um, a couple of light bars that help illuminate it after dark, um, and then you can see the cell tower on top, and then down on the face plate, which is the uh silver kind of metallic piece at the bottom.

There are a couple of options for those.

Um, there could come with a camera option, there's a speaker, there's a one or two button uh option for police or fire or both.

Um for us, we opted to do the one button, it goes straight to emergency dispatch at PD.

Um, it offers a couple of things.

You can um police know that this is out there, so if they receive a call from this number, they know the exact spot that you're at for this location.

Um, it's in their system.

Um, you can see on the newer models now, it does have an option for a wireless mass notification.

They did not have that option at the time, so we don't have that.

Um, we installed the first system that we have in 2020, late 2020, um, at Saxon Park, south of highway nine.

Um, we chose to put it kind of right there next to the parking lot because you have the um the exercise equipment trail to the south, you have the larger running trail to the north, kind of native trail.

Um something that people have said is well, I carry a cell phone.

Why don't I just call 911?

Um, and in a lot of studies, what they found is while it may be easy to sit here and have a discussion and talk about dialing 911 when you're in a panic state and you know your blood and journal and starts rushing that uh this does seem to make it simpler and does in certain cases save save time and save uh lives.

So that is what yeah, another thing just on the safety side of that that I like to bring up is one thing that makes it a little safer too is the fact that especially after Saxon Park, your sales service might not be that great.

And you said that when you hit that button, PDR knows it's that one that they're going to where they wouldn't know where you're at in there with your cell phone.

It's got an assigned address.

We did opt for the camera option.

Um sometimes people just like to push buttons when they're on stuff.

So we thought that if we had a camera option, that would also kind of deter just false false alarms and and that way we could kind of uh get rid of some of that.

Uh so that um you might be catching us up.

This is our only blue light we have in the system.

We have requested them a few times through the Capital Project uh to update and put them in more parts we haven't um got those approved just yet, but uh eventually you like to have some in Ruby Grant and out at well, it's just not cool.

We'll keep requesting those and um and hopefully get those one of these years.

But always remember, council that capital budget, your priorities are our priorities.

So depending on your temperature and desire for more of those, they work their way up on the priority list when we bring you the proposed budget.

Councilmember Green.

Um I was curious how many how many times has it been used since it's been out there?

Oh well, they don't monitor that now.

Um I'll show you in the next one that a kind of newer upgraded version has more monitoring features, is kind of what they've added from back in 2020.

Um what I need to do is run through the phone number, it has an assigned phone number.

I'll have to run that through PD dispatch, and I can I think I get that number.

How many times they've gone out there for the Council Member Gansbury.

Uh couple questions.

One, I guess this one's been there a little bit, but how much is the cost of one now?

And also are we able to repair them ourselves, or do we have to call third technician out?

Because I know the hospital got rid of theirs because of the cost of the keyboard or something like that.

Uh so let's see.

So we have worked on them ourselves.

We've had to make uh speaker updates.

Uh they recently went through 3G to 4G for their cell service.

Um, so we are able to work on them replace batteries, simple stuff.

We actually installed this one ourselves too.

And they average in 2020, we paid about 11,000 for this one.

Um, and again, we self-installed this, so that saves a little bit, but um right now depending on how many bells and whistles you get on it, it's about 15,000.

Um there is a uh uh cell service fee, like if you for your cell phone, like a data fee.

Um, and then there are options for monitoring and maintenance now that uh I'll go ahead and just switch to the next one.

Now that they've been bought out and night scope is now the like manufacturer that essentially took over uh case emergency systems, which is the previous vendor that we bought from.

So this is kind of their new improved model.

Um it's got the user interface, it's got a lot more.

Um to me, what I see is the the options for monitoring the interface are a lot more detailed than the old one.

And we've got that mass notification.

Uh we didn't put that on there when an option now, but um, if you want to go into the weather stations too.

Sure.

So I'll make this quick.

But uh to go along with that, and the reason we don't have mass notifications, we do have mass notifications on these weather stations that we have placed at um Ruby Grant.

We have one at Saxon as well, and we have one at Sutton Wilderness.

And they have their uh they have a lot more stuff that gets back to us, um, information, data, weather data um that tells us and alerts not only us but folks in the field, staff.

It does have a mass notification for things.

Um so if you are in the park, um, you at some of these parks that we've selected, you could be up to almost half a mile away from your vehicle at some point.

Um so what they do is if the lightning's within 10 miles, it alerts with a with a voice notification that you know why that alert is happening instead of the tones and the ringing, it tells you, hey, lightning's approaching, it's within 10 miles, seek shelter.

Um, we also uh installed it to have the heat glow.

So if it's too hot, um if the humidity's too high, different thing.

If there's a super smart equation that somebody else developed that tells you when your body's not going to perspire fast enough to keep you cool when you're outdoors running.

Um so it notifies that as well.

And that helps with our staff during the summer when they're working outside all year.

We use this as the we use that data to keep them safe too.

And then this is just a picture of kind of some of our kind of interface that we see, and then we can really deep dive in and it tells us how much uh precipitation, wind gust, um we got guys on lifts, when we got guys out in the field.

Um, if we got too much moisture, stuff like that.

Obviously, is this an app that a regular citizen at that park can download to get the same information?

We don't have that set up yet.

Um I think there is possibly that we could put it on our website and be able to access it from the website from the parks and rig website.

Yeah, we pay we pay a small fee for um specific users who can adjust the statement.

The preset we have exactly.

I just have one um on the weather alerts.

Is that cellular or does it use like an emergency radio or emergency weather radio frequency?

For just the weather alerts, like it alerts the system.

Okay.

So it will alert to some of my staff's cell phone, others that may need that specific location.

Um, but it also sends out an alert in the park.

I've heard that it's substantial noise, and we kind of put it in the middle.

We also have it on a timer, so like past 10 p.m.

It doesn't go off.

So in the middle of the night, it's not close to that point.

Just to Council Member Gansery's point, you know, it might be in these areas with limited cell phone reception or weather might knock out the cell phone reception.

So just another way to be able to get the information to people when they need it.

So yeah.

No, I think these are a great thing.

I mean, I absolutely have supportive of locating them everywhere that makes sense.

Um, you know, there's all the all the public safety times that you would need one, but also all the weather times in a state like Oklahoma.

I mean, I can't think of really a better reason to put them.

So there are any other questions or thoughts from council on that one?

How's it asked?

But I would like to get that information about how often it's used.

Yeah, we can get that with the heads nodding your next proposed budget on the capital side.

Just may have some of these in it.

Excellent.

I appreciate you guys.

Thank you very much.

All right, item number two, there's on now number three is discussion regarding the process to include campus corner and the center city tax increment finance district.

Ms.

Walker, I believe we have a presentation from you.

So welcome.

Okay.

Let's talk about Center City TIF District and Campus Corner.

Um I want to start just a little bit with the form-based code.

Um just because they are so tied together.

The form-based code was adopted in 2017, and the campus corner area was not included.

And so the language that we hear a lot about, we need this adequately sized parking structure is actually in the form-based code, not in the project plan.

And it basically says the exclusion of this commercial area will be evaluated by city council with input from stakeholders at such time that an adequately sized parking structure that is open to the public is completed or an appropriate funding mechanism is approved.

Now, what's adequate is uh subjective.

Uh, but because it was a this is in this form-based code, I think it was really intending to um to be at least enough to accommodate some of that higher density development that the form-based code was planning for.

So you can see here this is the form-based code map.

And I don't know if Microsoft will show up.

Yeah.

Uh, right here is campus corner.

Uh so no, you see, no colors denoting the form base code designation there.

Um, so it just kind of goes around it and and completely leaves it out from that zoning designation.

So around the same time in the same year, we we adopted this inner city TIFF district again, looking at the anticipated infrastructure needs because of all this high density development we were anticipating with the form-based code, and so it was very heavily focused on public infrastructure and facilities because we knew we have old sewer lines, old water lines, old everything in this area of town, and so it would need to be upgraded to accommodate those kind of higher densities.

And it's the total for this particular TIFF is 47.4 million dollars.

All you see, all of it really tied into that public infrastructure facilities and improvements.

Uh the boundary does include campus corner, but because campus corner was not really included in the public infrastructure facilities and improvements, it's not really included in a meaningful way in the project plan.

So it's in there, that means we're getting any growth in the avalurum tax from that district going into the center city TIF for public improvements and uh projects can be done there, but we don't really have any money in the project plan to do any projects there.

Um, and and this is why this project plan was very specific.

We did an infrastructure study with Johnson and Associates in conjunction with this, and very tightly tied the the project cost to that study.

So that study anticipated the sewer lines, water lines, storm sewer, those kind of things that I was talking about earlier, all to be uh public improvements, so publicly owned.

Um, and it says uh those are authorized project costs, uh nothing about parking or garages.

It did include on street parking, of course, with the street improvements, but some of the things that we've talked about and what the center city foreign post co-talked about, the parking structure is not included in that plan.

In fact, when you look at the map for that plan, Center City is just grayed out.

There's there's nothing.

Um, so this is why we're here today because we think maybe it's time to address this problem.

Um, I know there's been some interest from council.

I think it came up at your retreat this summer.

Um, so how do we fix this?

Although it's included in the project area in the increment district, what can we do to meaningfully and include it in this project cost?

And so I think we have to figure out what project costs we're looking at.

If it's a if it's a parking garage, what dollar figure is that going to be?

What's that need?

And can it be accommodated with accommodated within the existing project cost budget, or do we need to go ahead and amend that dollar amount cap and amend that language about public infrastructure facilities and improvements to to accommodate a parking garage?

Real quick, Councilmember Grant?

I have a question.

Does so publicly owned structure would be us for this parking garage?

Do we get to get Apple War for that?

No.

Okay.

Um, so I think that's under uh the Local Development Act, you can fund projects that aren't publicly funded through assistance and development financing.

So there might be some ways to tweak that language within the project plan to help accommodate maybe a more flexible approach, or maybe a both words.

Right, right.

So it the key though is it needs to provide public parking to bring it into center city.

Um I noticed that it said if we it was like built it or approved uh an appropriate funding mechanism.

So if we did a parking trust and authority, that would I mean since it's so loosely defined, that could be a trigger.

I think an appropriate funding mechanism might be a debt issuance, recognizing that it's gonna take a couple of years to design and build the garage, but you could go ahead and bring that area into the center city form-based code while it's being built, or you can wait until the garage is built.

Um I like the idea of debt issuance being the trigger.

Yeah, yeah, we believe we'll have your parking trust document for you at the November council meeting.

Yes, that is ready to go.

Um so you can make amendments to project plans under the local development act.

Um whether the process you use depends on whether or not they're major or minor amendments.

An amendment is minor if it doesn't change the character or purpose of the plan, does not add more than 5% to the area, that's not an issue, or does not add more than 5% to the public cost of the plan.

So 5% is just 2.37 million dollars.

So we're probably looking at a need higher than that if we're adding to the dollar figure.

Um, and because of that explicit tie of the existing project plan to that Johnson analysis, there could be an argument that we're really expanding on the character or purpose of the plan.

So we probably would want to go the major amendment route just to make sure we're following the process and we don't get hung up with some challenge there.

Uh the difference is a minor amendment is an easy, you know, relatively easy ordinance amendment that goes to council, a major amendment, you appoint the statutory review committee, they look at this proposal, uh, make a recommendation, then it goes to planning commission and then to city council, and we have a couple of public hearings.

Uh but that that would be the way to insulate yourselves against a challenge of major versus minor.

Um, I think that's my last side slide.

Councilmember Hinkle was up first.

Yes.

So if we do end up doing a public trust for parking and transportation, and that funds this, then effectively we could just pause on doing any amendments whatsoever, right?

Yeah, that doesn't have a funding source that's sufficient, I don't think.

I think what we're thinking is to fund the parking garage, you'll you'll at least need TIFF dollars to serve as a backstop for that financing.

And uh, your honor, the opportunity uh details to be worked out if there is um TIFF revenue in support of uh developer assistance and financing.

Uh there's still the need to administer the public parking component and or potentially collect the revenue for the whole thing, which would be largely applied towards uh debt service for the period of the of the uh debt instruments.

So uh we absolutely see value in the the parking trust going forward, and we just don't necessarily have all the details about how it would be plugged into the ultimate uh construction operation of that parking structure.

Councilmember Grant.

Uh two things.

So, do the property owners have to be willing to be a part of the if we make an major amendment or it's already in the increment district and the project area, so it's really just the dollar figure.

Okay, so they're probably I would imagine they would be fine with what we're talking about.

Um, and then the cost estimate.

What is the process for that and how long could it take to get that number?

We know um from talking with people who've been building parking garages and just kind of researching what those costs look like across the country.

There's a range of costs you'll see from 25 to 35,000 per space.

So I think it's more a matter of identifying the number of spaces and and developing maybe the higher end of that estimate just to make sure we're covered, plus an appropriate design cost.

Like acquisition of land, and then figuring out how much parking actually could fit there.

Or I think that part could probably the acquisition of land might take a while if you don't have willing willing sellers, but uh the we could certainly get estimates on those parcels.

Um, and we could engage willingness of the owners to part with them.

Yeah, and we could develop a uh probably a very conservative estimate for construction at the garage and then develop a design fee based off of the percentage of that.

We could get a decent estimate or ballpark at least.

Just the concept of what is possible in terms of what would fit, depending on the configuration and the ability to assemble a couple of additional parcels.

But right now, what may park 87 uh vehicles could park upwards of 500 vehicles in the same footprint uh if we're able to add a couple of uh additional pieces and then go up five floors.

Yeah, that was my next question.

Five or six stories.

Think in five, but the ultimate design may help dictate it, it may be five and a half with additional uses on top.

Council may decide we want to see more active street frontage, so it may get taller, but you're picking up retail opportunities on the ground floor.

And we may want to look at how center city, if the intent is to bring that into the form based code along with campus corner, how does that impact how it should be designed?

Okay, I think that's it for me.

So my intent is not to really add new projects in campus corner.

There may be some, and maybe the parking garage is one of them.

But the campus corner TIFF from 15 years ago redid the sidewalks and curb and gutter and repaved and put new lights in and put new parking meters in on ASP and White and Buchanan.

Boyd Street frontage was not updated, and um university was not updated.

And when you go on ASP north of White Street, it was not updated.

But the core part of campus corner 15 years ago got new sidewalks, new lights, and then we replaced the lights again like three years ago.

Uh not the poles, but the actual uh fixtures.

And then the we can sell got rid of all the parking meters.

There used to be one in front of every parking spot, got rid of all those, consolidated them into a couple on each block.

So I don't know that we really have a bunch of new projects, maybe a few, but new projects to add for campus corner to be in the center city TIFF.

For me, it's mainly about getting campus corner into the form-based code area so that if redevelopment happens, it's done under an urban and not the old 1950 zoning.

Volare was developed by Wright next to the deli, you know, five stories tall.

That was developed by Wright 10 years ago, and it was built in an urban footprint.

It didn't have any parking requirement.

It could have been there was no height limit, so it could have been as tall as Pete Wilson wanted to make it.

And so that one worked out pretty good, and I think overall it looks good, but um, I would hate to see something get redeveloped and it be redeveloped in a suburban form because it's not in the form-based code area.

Um, and maybe the form-based code part that's for campus corner, just like the other areas of the center city area have different color codes, and that means different things as far as setbacks or height limits or whatever.

And campus corner probably needs its own specific form-based code.

Uh, but that's been my main motivation for getting center or campus corner into the center city as we're eight years in.

Um there could be re there's been talk of redevelopment, there could be redevelopment on campus corner, and I think it should keep that redevelopment, should keep with the urban form that campus corner currently has historically had.

And what really got it started was when we built that new parking lot.

I kind of made the argument that we built an 87-car parking or 87-spot parking lot, and it's not being fully used.

So it seems like it's adequate to address parking needs on campus corner because it's not being fully used on a daily basis.

And maybe that'll change when we lower the price of it to 50 cents if we do that.

But I feel like we built a parking structure, parking lot that has almost a hundred spots in it.

It's one block from the main commercial part of campus corner.

So that's kind of where I wanted to get the conversation going, was staff informed us that that parking lot probably doesn't meet the definition.

Yeah, you know.

As I said, it's pretty subjective.

Yeah.

I mean, if you think to the future of how it could redevelop and how the area around it, even north of it is redeveloping, that maybe there's a higher need to be able to do that.

Yeah, and I wasn't sure.

I wasn't 100% sure if campus corner was contributing to the TIFF because it was drawn out.

So I also wanted to make sure that if we I didn't want to keep waiting until we're halfway done with the TIFF to get campus corner into it and start getting uh increment from it, especially if there is redevelopment.

And so um so yeah, I'd that's my main motivation is again, I think there could be some I think the frontage on Boyd needs to be redone.

Um university needs updated and then asked would be canon and it should go north of campus corner, probably needs some touch-up as well, and maybe some repairs to the improvements that were made a few years ago.

But um, but I overall I don't have any specific projects that I want to add to the project plan that are four that I have in mind specifically to do on campus corner.

And to the mayor's point, since we did that work on ASP and uh stopped at Boyd, um it that's not a long drawn-out process to get cost estimates to bring what was left off to that same standard.

So that that's not a uh too heavy a lift for us to keep the uh process moving forward.

Just real quick to Maryland Holman's point.

I mean, I think to me the the appeal of doing a project on this site is exactly what you were talking about, the urban form, and it's you know, you've got apps astro street, which is the most urban street in all of Oklahoma, and then it stops right there at White.

If you were able to extend campus corner north, you know, ground floor commercial, you get rid of the surface parking lots, which are missing teeth uh and the smile of urban forum down there.

I think it's contributes a whole heck of a lot to the area, notwithstanding the parking, notwithstanding like the all the other added benefits, but just the increase of campus corner um closer to main street and making that connection, I think is really powerful.

You mentioned that the catlet parking garage is pretty much the exact size that could fit up.

I did a little test fit.

Um Catlet, it's uh that has no retail.

It supports 125 cars per floor, so at Ford Floors, you get 500 cars, and then you know, there's still a little room left over.

Yeah, so even if you were able to carve out some storefronts on the ground floor, I think you still you know have inside behind it.

Yeah, and you know five stories, you're at 625 or you know, whatever.

And so um, I got a couple questions, but I'll come back, Councilman Durant.

Yeah, on the form-based code part, and thinking how it wasn't a part of the original.

Um so would that go back to like Johnson tickets to help figure out?

Uh, and then also we still have that ad hoc committee with maybe a couple pending meetings.

Um, but I was thinking, you know, for Valari, you know, that went up several stories.

What does that mean for the infrastructure below?

And if you see that replicated on campus corner, what does that mean for like sewer water?

Yeah, and I know Johnson and Associates has been working on some updates to that plan to help us phase some improvements in, but so that would probably be a really good question for them to look at and and maybe add to their report.

Um potentially that might also carry a dollar amount to add that.

So I was kind of curious what it would cost.

Uh I guess outside of the parking structure design of what that could look like, but what that part of campus corner could.

Um yeah, that's it for me.

Councilman Dixon.

Um I was just gonna ask what the um calculative split is, um, like how much stays in the district, how much goes to the other taxes.

It's a 90-10 split, so 90% of the growth in property tax in the district is allocated for increment and project cost into the project plan.

10% of the growth continues to go to taxi jurisdictions.

Okay, thank you.

My only questions are really, you know, so if it's a public garage, does that mean it can only be public?

Could you have a portion of the spaces be long-term lease to housing developments in the area?

I mean, because the whole idea was to support housing development, and so being able to offer that.

Um you certainly could lease spaces just like we do with our gray street lot.

Um I think, and and David Floyd's here, he can tell you this better than me, but um, I think it might impact whether it can be a taxable or a non-taxable bond, depending on how many of those spots you've got leased out.

We certainly want to make sure we have enough for the public, but we may want to think about those kind type of costs too.

Kind of fall related to that little follow-up.

Um, since it's a public garage, could you tie other uses to it that were done by private developers, such as housing above the garage or again ground floor commercial or something like that?

It's all in the agreements.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

You have anything to add to that?

Um, no.

Excellent.

So I'd love to hear.

Okay.

Um, well, I mean, I think for me, I don't want to speak for everybody else, but I think it's a real priority to get this moving as fast as possible.

Um, all garages across Northern, but in particular this one because of all the housing we're seeing.

I know there's a lot of pent-up demand for housing projects that want to get off the ground but can't because of the parking requirement.

I mean, it's either either we develop these sites for housing or we turn them into parking lots.

And so consolidating all the parking into one structure makes a whole heck of a lot of sense to me, and I would throw all my support behind it 100%.

So to mention that I mean primary the motivation for this caveat was about I mentioned it before, so sorry if I'm repeating, but that uh the proposal was to limit height on campus corner of new buildings.

And like I mentioned about Velare, there's no height limit.

They could build as tall as they want.

And so in exchange for taking away a right that property owners currently have to build as tall as they want, the exchange was uh will provide a parking structure for campus corner if you agree to give up your height unlimited height.

I personally didn't agree, really agree with that.

Um I'd I like for the market to decide the height of buildings.

Now, if it's the residential neighborhood and you don't want a 10-story, five-story building next to it, that's understandable to regulate that when it comes to height.

But like where Velare is, if Valare was 10 stories, what would that matter?

That's what I feel about this side.

Um and the building that's next to the deli that's on the corner, it's two stories.

Well, what if it was five or six or seven or eight?

Um, so I'm other discussion, but uh if that's a sticking point too, I'd I'd I'm not real interested in a height limit in the middle of campus corner.

Yeah, um, and that being the reason why we made this deal to begin with uh back then.

Ms.

Walker, would that be an amendment that we could include in this process for council's consideration?

I think that would be an amendment to the form-based code, which would need an amendment anyway to incorporate campus corner and and identify what color, what form gets assigned to that.

Um so yeah, I think is there any benefit to redo on the entire plan of starting the clock over the 25-year clock?

I mean, it definitely gives you more time to finance things if if you wanted to just draw you know the area around campus corner and create a new TIFF, you could certainly do that.

Okay.

A new 25-year TIFF.

And that would start the clock.

I just think you know, we've I we're you said you said eight years into it, and so a parking garage getting built, we're now probably 11 years into it.

We've eaten up half the clock on the 25 years, and so doesn't just make more financial sense to restack the deck and make sure that we're capturing all the potential increment.

Um if we identify uh to council member grant's point, if we identify a lot of infrastructure needs in campus corner as a result of pointing into the form-based code, maybe those costs get too big.

Okay, and we need to look at that.

But we'll keep it for that as we go forward.

From a major amendment to starting with the brand new same process, same process, just campus corner, yeah, customer grant.

Uh process for the center city form-based code update would be getting an ad hoc committee to redo that or yeah, uh, that's I think how we've done amendments in the past is use a committee to kind of work through those things and and uh and identify amendments.

We haven't had wholesale amendments like this, you know, as far as really assigning what kind of um form form as is applicable to an area.

Uh we used a consultant in the in the uh plan to begin with.

We could be engaged the consultant or we could try that through the committee process.

And your uh committee in that particular effort may have um a makeup that in is is a little more heavily weighted on those property owners in the newly affected area and they may share the sentiments that the mayor put on the table for us.

Interesting all right well I don't see any other hands raised so if there's nothing else committees adjourned.