Please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

All right.

Approval of minutes.

Item number one, approval of the City Council Conference Meeting Minutes of March twenty-fifth, twenty twenty-five, April twenty-second, twenty twenty-five, July twenty-second, twenty twenty-five, August twelfth, twenty twenty-five, September ninth, twenty twenty-five, and October twenty-eighth, twenty twenty-five.

City council special meeting minutes of March fifth, twenty twenty four, City Council Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, and Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority meeting minutes of July first, twenty twenty five, and July twenty-second, twenty twenty five.

City Council study session meet meeting minutes of October fifteenth, twenty twenty-four, january seventh, twenty twenty-five, January twenty first, twenty twenty-five, April fifteenth, twenty twenty five, May sixth, twenty twenty-five, and August fifth, twenty twenty-five.

City Council Oversight Committee meeting minutes of December fourteenth, twenty twenty-three, city council finance committee meeting minutes of October sixteenth, twenty twenty-five, City Council Community Planning and Transportation Committee meeting minutes of October twenty-third, twenty twenty-five.

I entertain a motion to approve the minutes.

Motion to approve.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to approve the minutes.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

And the motion to acknowledge receipt.

I'm sorry.

The motion to approve the minutes passes unanimously.

All right.

Item number two, a proclamation of the mayor of the city of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the period of November through December twenty twenty-five as small business season with emphasis on Saturday, November twenty ninth, twenty twenty-five, as small business Saturday in the City of Norman.

I need a motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation.

Motion.

Whereas Norman's small businesses are essential to our unique culture and local economy, driving job creation and community investment.

And whereas national data confirms the power of small businesses with over 35 million small businesses creating most of the nation's new jobs and keeping an estimated 68 cents of every dollar spent within the local community.

And whereas while the highly effective Small Business Saturday celebrates its 16th year on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the City of Norman recognizes the need for sustained support.

And whereas to maximize the impact for our local entrepreneurs, we are branding the period of November through December as small business season, encouraging residents to continually shop, dine, and utilize local services.

And whereas Norman is dedicated to supporting these businesses, which preserve our city's character and vitality.

And now, therefore, I, Stephen Tyler Holman, mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim the period of November through December 2025 as small business season, with emphasis on Saturday, November 29th, 2025, as small business Saturday in the City of Norman.

And I urge all residents to enthusiastically shop small throughout small business season and continue this vital support all year long.

Passed and approved this 25th day of November 2025.

Hello, I'm Stephanie O'Hara.

I have Cadoodles Toy Store and Norman.

Very excited to be here.

This is our son Smith, our daughter Stella, and my mother Nana, who all work at Cadoodles.

Honorable Mayor Holman and members of City Council, thank you for this proclamation and for recognizing the importance of Small Business Saturday.

It's an honor to accept this on behalf of all small businesses in Norman.

Especially during the holidays, every purchase made locally helps support families in Norman and keeps Norman thriving.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and ho ho ho.

All right, next up on the agenda is council announcements, and we'll start in Ward 1.

Hello, Ward 1, those that are present, those at home, and everybody else in the city of Norman.

Uh one, definitely happy holidays to everybody.

Hope everybody has a safe holiday season.

Also would like to give some shout-outs a little bit more than I usually do.

One, I wanted to give a shout out to the people at our adult weldness center that hosted a great gal and had several different ones up here to help role play for their gal event that they had the other night.

It was a great success, great turnout.

Everybody there seemed to be having a really great time and everything at one of our Norman Ford projects and everything to celebrate our city.

So that was really, really great to have.

Also, a huge shout out to Kennedy Elementary.

Kenny Elementary, I was proud to be able to serve as their legislature of a day over there, meeting the kids as they got off the school bus, getting to do their pep rally, a couple other different details over there, and building a relationship with them that we're going to move forward with to be able to do some bigger and better things to recognize some of our kiddos over there.

But more importantly, want to shout out the principal over there.

From the second you walked into the door that day, that principal personally out there greeting parents, greeting kids, knew every kid's name, knew every kid's personality, knew every kid's likes, meeting them, putting a smile on their face, the whole pep rally brought in actually Indian culture, had a guy teaching some about Indian language and some Indian games and everything like that, and really showing that diversity that we're great at in Norman and everything like that.

So she's doing a really great job over there, improving test scores at a higher rank than most other cities are at this point in time and everything.

So shout out to her and her staff over there.

Want to shout out one of our own city employees, Michelle.

She knows who she is.

Me and Councilmember Grant was able to go represent and help with her.

She received one of the most extinguished awards that keep keep Oklahoma Beautiful gives out and was named one of our five highest performers in their beautification environmental friendly giving back and having a great impact on your community.

Makes Norman look good, definitely makes her and her organization that she represents in Norman look great also was a good success and definitely nice to recognize her and if then hopefully we can have her here to recognize it formally at some point in time also.

Also just want to remind people with the holiday season.

Let's don't forgive that Thanksgiving is not only time to thanks for what we have, but it's a thanks for the opportunity to give to others that don't have.

So I encourage you to look up food and shelter still as of this morning, still looking for volunteers for our annual Thanksgiving dinner giveaway, you know, going to serving lunch to those in need.

Me and my family will be there as we have the last five years and everything like that.

Definitely would encourage anybody to come out and join me.

It's a great time.

Get to know your other citizens that live in your town.

Also, if you reach out on their website with the family that host our Christmas dinner, they're also still looking for some volunteers as well to sign up for.

And then I also know that as of this morning, also when I was looking into it for myself, our foster families in Norman with the pitch of funding.

Really need some citizens to step up this year, maybe adopt one, two, three kids, whatever you can possibly give back.

Anonymous, they give you a little shop unless you just go get it, bring it back to them, and they'll hand it out.

That way we can make sure every kid in our town has a good Christmas this year.

And that's pretty much all I have.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Ward two.

Thank you.

Uh yeah.

So as a small business owner myself, I uh I know how important it is to get out there and support our local businesses.

Uh they are the lifeblood of our community.

Uh, you don't see Amazon supporting uh sponsoring kids' soccer teams.

You see local small businesses doing it.

So please, this Saturday and every other day uh of the year, get out there and shop Norman local.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward three.

Echo those comments most definitely.

Uh tomorrow night I'm gonna be doing a I'm gonna call it a uh listen and learn.

And I'll be at the uh library on on the west side, uh, Norman Public Library.

And uh I invite anyone you know wanna come out there from Ward 3 to come talk to me and want to hear your ideas or concerns or issues or talk about city projects, but it'll be a chance for me to sit down with uh Ward 3 residents and and get a good feel for as um for those issues or those concerns or if we just want to talk.

I I'll be there from uh six to eight.

So I appreciate that.

And I'm looking forward to see someone down there because I'll be down there by myself if not.

So thank you.

I've been there.

Uh thank you.

Uh Ward 4.

Yes.

Good evening, Norman and Ward 4, especially.

Um, since we won't meet again until December 9th on Saturday, December 6th at 225 North Webster.

That is the development center across the way.

We are having our last quarterly Ward 4 meeting on uh at 9:30 uh to 11 a.m.

And it'll be a review.

We'll talk about some things that are coming up in 2026.

But some things that I think I'm gonna cover are the three unrelated.

I have had a lot of conversations with neighborhoods across Ward 4 about that and code enforcement and all those things.

I've gotten asked again about the Griffin Master Plan, and I'll be happy to share what the north of Maine portion of Griffin could look like.

Um also thank you for the reminder, Councilman Burk Gansbury about uh Michelle Ladenbach's award, uh, the Towering Spirit Award.

She does a lot in our community, and I'll just say that she helps our neighborhoods do the organized cleanups, uh, keep Norman neat.

You can look that up and sign your own neighborhood up.

And through the city, you can get vests, gloves, trash can or trash bags, and then the city will come pick up what you've collected and report that to DEQ.

Um, and then I'd also like to echo the shop small.

Um, I she's not my constituent.

Her name is Annie Wymore, and she works with a lot of downtown businesses.

Um, and I liked what she had to say about supporting local.

I not everybody has the same means, so maybe shopping small might be more expensive than what you can afford for gifts for your family.

But ways you could still support local is do some of your meetups at a local coffee shop or brewery or restaurant, maybe exchange your gifts at uh the lore or yellow dog.

I'm naming Ward 4 places, but you know, that's my word.

Um, but it doesn't just have to be Ward 4, you could pick other local businesses across the city to host your uh get togethers, and then maybe follow their social media and share some of their specials if people in your community are looking for gift ideas.

You don't have to shop Amazon or Target.

Um you can look and see what the niche items are.

And I I love our small businesses because they're what keep Norman unique.

Um and they all have their own flavor, and maybe it's not for everybody, but when you find that, you know, we get really sad when our you know 10-year-old, 15-year-old businesses close.

So, anyways, I would just say think if you have it within your budget, shop local, and if you don't, maybe think about other ways you could support.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward five.

Good evening, Norman.

And specifically Ward 5.

I don't have any really big announcements at this time, and so I'm just gonna let everybody know.

Please have a uh happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward six.

Uh thank you very much.

I want to remind everybody about the Norman Christmas parade on December 6th at 6 p.m.

Um since we won't be having a meeting until after it, definitely go out.

It'll be at night, so it'll be well lit up and very fun.

Um, I'd like to uh just extend a thank you.

I've said this many times before to all of the people that decide to serve on our boards and commissions of the city.

That's a really great way to get interactive in the processes that we have.

Uh there are two ward six residents that are re-upping for uh their service on these committees.

Ingar Gaffrieda from is signing up for the environmental control advisory board.

Uh, and then Deborah Kretzinger is going to serve on the Norman Regional Hospital Authority.

Uh so thank you very much to them and to everyone who uh gives their time, donates their time to serve on those commissions.

And then lastly, I just want to say thank you to uh everyone for their interactions with what we're doing on council and uh have a safe Thanksgiving holiday.

If you're traveling uh out of Norman, be safe and next year invite your relatives to come here because we love your relative sales tax.

Uh we have plenty of hotels, so thank you.

Thank you.

Ward seven.

Uh yes, hello, um Norman and uh specifically Ward 7.

Um, I just have one um I want to give a shout out.

Um this may seem like not much to some of you, but to the people in my neighborhood, it's a big deal.

So I wanted to give a shout out to um City of Norman transportation engineer David Riselin.

Um I just want to say how much I appreciate him because I emailed him.

Um we were um my neighborhood had re uh was continuously reaching out to me um wanting um a couple stop signs in an area that just had yield signs, and um, and I emailed him about it, and then boom, there are stop signs there.

So everybody in my neighborhood was so happy today, and that makes me very happy.

So big shout out to David for that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward eight.

Uh thank you.

I'd like to thank everybody for uh mentioning everything that I wanted to.

Um but Christmas parade and Michelle Loudenbach, manager of the doors, uh huge honor for her and the city.

Um briefly mention um Eddie Radosovich.

Uh he's a uh college wall personality radio star.

Um bet a similar guy, uh University of Texas guy.

Um the University guy said that if uh OU won nine games this year, he donated a thousand dollars to the Norman Boys and Girls Club.

Uh we've done that.

Uh so Eddie Rudolphich called him out on Twitter.

Um I jumped in with all three of my uh Twitter followers and uh jumped in on that.

Uh I just like to say that last I saw over 20,000 has been raised for the Norman Boys and Girls Club over that kind of fun bet on Twitter that the guy in Austin, Texas didn't want to pay up on.

Um and again, I used all three of my Twitter followers to jump in on that and make it happen.

Um I see some scouts here tonight.

Uh probably earning uh maybe uh some kind of governmental badge.

Um love to see you guys here.

Um if you have to leave early, uh I'll be paying attention, I'll catch you in the hallway.

But I have something for you.

Um love seeing the scouts here.

Um sometimes this is not the easiest badge to earn.

Uh there have been some scouts that through some really long meetings.

Uh so hopefully this one is short tonight.

Um, but that's all.

Oh, I also wanted to mention um Norman Convention and Visitors Bureau, uh Ward 8 resident Steve Gillis um is being reappointed to that, and Dr.

Lacey Anderson, uh Ward 8 resident being re uh reappointed the Norman Regional Hospital Authority.

Um and just can't stress this enough.

Please, we need people on boards and commissions.

Please reach out to your to your uh council person, uh to the mayor, uh the city manager, city clerk.

Uh we need you.

We need you, we need you.

Uh thank you so much.

Thank you.

I just drove all night long to get here from Los Angeles.

I left last Wednesday night and went to a show at the Viper Room on Sunset Strip on Friday night.

And then got up really early, Pacific Coast Time to watch OU Play at 9 a.m.

in a hotel room.

And then I went to Six Flags and rode nine roller coasters in four hours.

And then went to watch UCLA and Washington play at the Rose Bowl.

And then went and saw the Rams play Baker Mayfield on Sunday night, which was quite the experience, even though it ended up not being a very good game.

And then got back on the road and came back to Norman so I could be here in time for the meeting tonight.

But it was really exciting to uh get the opportunity to go experience that.

My cousin works for the Rams, so he got us tickets.

And then my buddy that I went with, he had passes to Six Flags.

I had not ridden a roller coaster in easily over 20 years.

So I didn't know.

I was not knowing what I what to expect there, but it was it was really good.

Um great opportunity and a really good time uh spending time with my dad on the trip and my buddy Rhett on the open road, clearing your head, collecting your thoughts, things like that, um, especially with everything that we've all been dealing with collectively over the last few months, years, our whole lives, whichever it may be.

Um so, but I'm I'm real thankful.

I enjoyed the uh 75 degree weather every day out there, um, but I'm really grateful to be back in Norman where I know where all the streets go and I know a lot of people's names and things like that.

Um but just wanted to mention that uh that little fun trip I had.

Um, and because UCLA is apparently saying they don't want to play in the Rose Bowl anymore, and Saturday might, Saturday night might have been the last time there's a regular season college game ever played there.

So uh but there were so few people there that we were able to sit on the 50 yard line because this there was nobody sitting there.

It kind of looked like uh Norman High and Norman North when they play each other at OU.

Except this was a college game.

Um but anyway, I did want to echo the um Councilor Hinkle on the winter fest next week uh in downtown Norman.

The parade starts at six, and then the tree lighting is at seven, uh, right at the James Garner statue.

There's a new tree that the city installed this past year.

And so I encourage everybody to uh show up for that and check it out.

And then I also wanted to thank um Kennedy, uh the staff and the kids at Kennedy for inviting me to come read to kids.

Um people were coming to school after hours to uh people that were excited, kids that were very excited about reading books, and it was a great opportunity as a former Norman or as a former Kennedy kid myself, uh getting always get it anytime I get the opportunity to go back to Kennedy and visit and walk around and talk to the teachers and stuff is really exciting for me.

And then uh just getting the chance to uh read to kids and talk to them about city stuff.

Um and then also wanted to thank the uh kids and staff at Norman High for inviting me there last week um to talk about local government and uh what a council manager form of government is and what we do here, what is the mayor, what is the city council, what is a city manager, um and they had really great questions to ask about uh the termpike about the library.

And I've spoken to Norman North and Norman High recently, and the first question the kids asked me were what's going on with the library.

So um they are aware they're wanting it to be reopened just like all of us, and uh that's kind of refreshing that the youth in Norman is excited about getting the library reopened as soon as possible.

So um also wanted to mention um community planning and transportation committee will be on the 17th in December because of Christmas.

So it'll be on Wednesday the 17th at 4 p.m., usually on the fourth Thursday of the month at 4 p.m.

But this uh coming December, it will be on the 17th.

Um and just like all of our committees, um, they're available to watch on YouTube, or you can watch them uh live stream as they're happening, or you can show up here at City Hall and watch them in person if you'd like.

Um community planning and transportation that I chair, like I mentioned, is where we get the monthly um report on public transit ridership, the budget projects.

We get updates on street construction projects, and last week we got an update and had a discussion with city staff about the upcoming Lindsay Street project that will be uh taking place uh between Pickard and Elm Street, and then Elm Street and Jenkins.

It's two separate projects.

2019 voter approved bond project is not a widening project, um, except to add turn lanes at the intersections.

But if you want to watch the replay of that meeting and see the presentation from city staff and the discussion of uh council had about that upcoming project, I encourage you to check that out.

And then again, um all of our committees that meet on Thursdays at 4 p.m.

are available to watch on the City of Norman YouTube channel or attend in person.

And then um also wanted to echo that same support for small businesses, they are the backbone of the city.

Um the example I would give to that is um you know a lot of folks in Norman are probably excited that we're getting a shake shack, right?

There's not there's I don't know if there's one in there, might be one other in Oklahoma so far, and we're getting one, right?

It's a big national corporate chain name brand.

Everybody's excited.

Um but when I was in California, there were shake shacks everywhere.

I could get Shake Shack anywhere, right?

And but you know what I couldn't get?

I couldn't get the diner on Main Street.

I could go to a breakfast place and get breakfast, but I couldn't get the diner.

I couldn't go to the diner.

I couldn't go to a place that looked like that because there wasn't one.

There was no other diner.

That's the only one that there is that's like that one.

But there's lots of shake shacks, and there's lots of targets and lots of Walmarts and lots of things like that.

So support your locally owned small businesses because, like other council members said, they are what make us unique and make us different than any other community where you could get shake shack anywhere, right?

So support your locally owned small businesses, and because again, they are the ones that do give back.

I don't ever see a Amazon thing out at the Norman High football field on the fence.

It's it's all the locally owned small businesses that are contributing their their money to help support our our sports teams and all of our nonprofits and all the organizations and activities that we all love.

Um, and then also wanted to uh just mention the game this coming Saturday, LSU, the last home game, maybe.

If OU wins could get a home playoff game, which would be pretty exciting for Norman, I think.

Um but it could be rough weather, but I just want to encourage everybody to um uh go out and support the team, have a good time, support locally owned small businesses on Saturday and every day, and have a really good time.

It's exciting season for everybody, it's exciting season for OU.

They've got everything in their hands.

If they win every game, they're national champs.

So there you go.

Um and then lastly, just wanted to also welcome the uh scouts to the meeting.

I appreciate you all being here and hope you'll encourage all your friends uh to also come attend a city council meeting.

And even if you're not working on a badge, you're welcome to always come and check out our meetings and participate.

So thank you very much.

Um that's all I have.

And with that, we will move on to consent docket.

Can I see something real quick?

Yes.

Um, just to note for the record um on our system, we still have a previous council member listed as in ward three.

So I wanted to correct the record that it is uh Robert Bruce.

Um so when it comes up on the screen, my apologies, we'll get that fixed.

Um this item is placed on the agendas so that the city council by unanimous consent can designate these routine agenda items that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion.

If any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order.

Staff recommends that item three through 26 be placed on the consent docket.

I'll entertain a motion to place items three through 26 on the consent docket.

Motion second.

The motion on the floor is to place items three through 26 on the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

That's from last of it.

Mayor Holman.

Yes, I think it was No, I actually had something I need to say on this one.

Oh, yes, yeah.

Uh just regarding item number four.

I actually have a conflict of interest on that, so I will be recusing from the discussion and the vote on that item when it comes before us for a second reading in two weeks.

Okay.

We'll be voting on the consent docket as a whole tonight.

Perfect.

Okay.

Was that a vote from the work?

Okay.

All right.

I'll entertain a motion.

The motion on the floor is to place items three through 26.

The motion passes unanimously.

All right.

I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent docket.

Motion.

Second.

Are there any comments from council regarding any item on the consent docket?

Oh.

I have one.

The wrong button.

Councilmember Grant.

Uh yes.

On the item four, I would just like to say that we are taking uh feedback from concerned residents about this particular spud, and we will be making time to meet with people to hear their concerns and potentially find some solutions.

So you know, maybe we may delay the vote in December, or maybe we get to a place where we can confidently vote on it by December.

Either way, just want to put it out there that we are listening.

Even if you haven't heard from us in email, some of us are a little busier than others.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh no other you may vote.

The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your vote.

So it's yeah, because they were already started.

Okay.

All votes have been cast in the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously.

Um I would like to reiterate council member Bruce's voting in the ward three spot.

Okay.

All right, to the non-consent docket.

Item number 27.

Consideration of approval, rejection, amendment, and or postponement of contract K-2526-102, an interlocal agreement between the City of Norman, Oklahoma and Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, real property trust for a 3.23 acre tract of land lying in and being a part of the southeast four of section 29, Township 9 North, Range 2 West of the Indian Meridian, Cleveland County, Oklahoma, in the amount of 74,290 and budget appropriation.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the contract.

Motion.

Second.

I would like to recognize Anthony Purinton, assistant city attorney to make a presentation.

Thank you, Council.

Like you mentioned, this is an agreement, an interlocal agreement with the city and the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Real Property Trust.

And this is for purchase of a parcel along Reed Avenue just south of Main Street here in Norman, located just south of food and shelter, uh directly north of community uh Central Oklahoma Community Mental Health Center on Alameda.

This is a 3.2 acre property, some of which is within the floodplain.

Um this would be for the location of a permanent shelter, which has been one of council's priorities for many years.

This is a little bit more you know, technical document for like a survey that we had done that shows a little bit more specifics of property which is in the agenda packet.

Uh, and just some of the background here, which there's a lot more here than what's on your screen, but generally um for this particular parcel.

This has been a parcel for this area has been a particular interest of council and some community uh groups for some time as a spot for a permanent shelter on June 27th at the direction of city council, the city prepared survey and legal description, sending that to OMES, which is like the purchasing agent for the state, and they do a lot of the real property transactions for a lot of the different state agencies.

Um and this was the survey that the city identified as a legal description for the best possible location for a permanent shelter on this state parcel.

Um on August 13th, we did get a response back from OMES that you know that the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse was uh interested in our offer, and so we started to uh negotiate that contract, and how that worked is OMES obtained an appraisal on October 22nd.

We received that appraisal.

Uh, and then we also got uh draft contract from OMES, and it's a standard form contract.

One page, very simple.

Um, and we prepared it for both parties' uh agenda.

Uh the purchase price, the terms of the agreement, like I said, it's pretty simple.

Uh purchase and sale, 74,290 dollars, which is a great appraised value.

I've purchased you know uh a lot of property on behalf of the city.

Um, never is it this low.

So I think that this is a great price and it's an appraised value exactly of that property.

Um it's a cash transaction, so we would be exchanging obviously that for the deed.

Um it does not include mineral interest, which is standard for the state and most property acquisitions.

Uh and the conveyance would be via quit claim deed, which is standard practice for the state of Oklahoma.

Um government deed usually is gonna come in the form of a quit claim deed when they're conveying property.

Um then if we were to purchase, then you know, you guys are normally the last one to sign.

You're actually or the and this is the case here.

Um the state's usually the last one to sign, but we uh managed to get them to go ahead and approve it first November 20th, a couple days uh last week.

They did approve that, so you guys would be second to sign, and it would be effective upon council approval tonight.

Uh closing on the property would occur fairly quickly and sometime in December of this year.

So we would be titled to the property uh before the end of the year.

Uh if there are any questions um related to the agreement, happy to answer them at this time.

All right.

Are there any questions from council regarding this item?

Councilmember Peacock.

That was from last time.

Okay.

Councilmember Grant.

Yes.

Um, maybe not so much related to our agreement, but I would just like to have it on the record.

Last we spoke about this, there was interest from uh members on council about uh relocating the shelter as quick as possible, but that's truly not feasible because there needs to be some groundwork as I understand it on this site.

Um I will defer that question to someone more capable than I.

Uh who anyone want to take that from staff?

I'm yeah, I'm not a construction person, but I know someone who is, luckily.

I'll pass that to Jason.

Jason Olson, um, director of parks and recreation.

Can you repeat the question so I can pay a little bit of attention?

Um, so I've had some people reach out with concern about the quickness we might move to relocate the shelter.

And in discussion, we've talked about MPS uh portable classrooms potentially, but as I understand that, that is not a feasible timeline.

There are things to still be done environmentally speaking on this land, and honestly, we have our eyes on another date.

Yeah, so basically, when you start talking about any piece of land and new construction, there are there's a few things that that any developer, which the city will be the developer in this case, would have to do.

We would have to um zone the land appropriately, and we would have to plat the land appropriately, and that is not a short process.

So that will take a um anywhere from I'm guessing just off the top of my head, four to six months to properly do that.

And during that process, we will be designing and hopefully uh moving forward with a uh what we would call a prefab building, which would um is basically a building that uh comes on prefab from a manufacturer that that can be um customly designed on the inside of it to basically erect once we get everything properly zoned and platted.

So earliest we might see any kind of movement would be potentially summer of 2026.

That's what I heard, but you know um, I would say I would say somewhere in that range, yes.

Optimistically speaking, there could be delays um when we talk about looking at that site and what might be needed to make even a prefab work.

There could be other construction issues.

Uh theoretically, but we're kind of working in in concert with all that.

Okay, um, that's all I have.

Thank you.

Oh no problem.

Thank you.

Okay.

This is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on this item.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers registered for this item?

Yes, Mayor.

Evan Taylor.

Mayor, council members.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Uh, my name's Evan Taylor, Ward 4, and I live in original town site.

This is the neighborhood immediately west of the Griffin South property and directly across from the parcel under consideration.

We are one of Norman's oldest neighborhoods, a mix of longtime residents, young families, renters, and homeowners.

And because of our location, this project will affect us first and most directly.

I recognize that the item before you tonight is technically a land purchase, but the staff report, as well as the report tonight, have acknowledged this parcel as being evaluated for use as a shelter site.

That means the decision to purchase this land is not neutral.

It sets in motion a sequence of foreseeable decisions and foreseeable impacts on the surrounding neighborhood.

And those impacts are not theoretical.

Our neighborhood already experiences significant pressure from existing services.

A temporary low barrier shelter placed next to homes creates impacts on day one.

That's not an opinion, it's an operational reality.

And decisions of this scale require structure and safeguards before they move forward.

When the McCowan village was opened in 2017, the neighborhood was given commitments about safety coordination and follow-through.

Over time, several of those commitments were not kept.

I raised that not to revisit the past, but because this is precisely the moment when we can avoid repeating those mistakes by putting the protections in place now.

If the city proceeds with this purchase, we need clear, practical, and enforceable commitments.

First, as we'd ask that a formal planning framework be put in place with milestones that have to occur before any temper temporary placement, any prefab would be put in place.

Second, we'd ask that a standing citizens oversight committee with neighborhood representation be established now before any temporary placement is even considered to ensure the opportunity for accountability, coordination, and public reporting as this project develops.

Third, we really need an honest evaluation about whether a low barrier model is appropriate on a residential street.

This is a land use question.

Different models have different external impacts, and the model must match the location.

That's something we'd require of any private developer.

In addition, much of the land surrounding this parcel is still owned by the state, which the city cannot police.

That creates a gap that must be addressed in the design.

These are practical steps that we can take now to reduce risk, improve design, and make this project workable, both for the people who need the services and the people who live nearby.

But if the city is not prepared to establish those safeguards before deploying temporary structures, prefabs or otherwise, then we are not ready to purchase this land.

I want to be a good neighbor, I want solutions that work.

Being good neighbors is a two-way process.

Do not rush a temporary shelter next to us without the planning, the framework, the oversight, and the protection this location requires.

The groundwork must come first, and it must start now.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sorry, Dan Munson.

Hi, I'm Dan Munson from Ward 7.

So I think the cost of this property is very reasonable.

Um you don't get to buy uh acreage uh this cheap in Norman almost anywhere.

So I think the cost is really, really good.

Um the second thought I have on this.

I know that the houses that are just uh west of Reed near food and shelter, those houses are impacted.

So I'd like to see the city buy those houses.

Um additionally, I'd like to see some fencing or walls go up to help uh prevent some of the eyesore that comes with some of the areas around food and shelter.

Because I think it has a real negative impact on just the property values.

I know I wouldn't want to live off a Reed Street.

It would be it would not be great for me or my home value.

Um I think uh a wall on the the southern part of that property.

Um, you know, six or eight-foot wall or a privacy fence of some type.

I think that uh could potentially be uh helpful.

Um, I think that's what I got.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Judy Moss.

Thank you for letting me speak.

I'm Judy Moss, Ward 4.

I'm a member of the original town site neighborhood uh executive committee, and also the chair of the safety committee of the same organization.

And I live four blocks from the three-acre triangle-shaped lot.

Uh why we organized in the first place is because of um concerns involving safety in our neighborhood.

We intend to keep a close watch on any plans that might impact our quality of life.

Any impact in traffic, safety, lighting, noise, and pedestrian activity.

We feel that this thing is happening too fast.

The process is moving too quickly.

So we are requesting that the vote be postponed so that our neighborhood can have a clarity from the city on what all is involved here.

We need clarity and transparency from the city leadership before this purchase.

And I do appreciate Council uh woman um Grant.

Who has said that she is going to be addressing this issue at a town hall in December.

That's the type of thing we're talking about.

And we need to know what's going on because this is impacting our neighborhood the most.

So I'm not real clear on how it goes, but there is something we would like to see as a neighborhood to see.

We know how it impacts us because we've been dealing with the traffic and pedestrian traffic, particularly since food and shelter opened.

So we would like to know what impact to our neighborhood would be done be due to being not exist next right next to food and shelter.

And it's already bad enough, is it is so we would like to see if there's anything that can be done in planning and designing that will help us to at least get a handle on that.

And we'd also like to see the impact of how this uh purchasing this lot and putting a shelter on it will impact the Bishop Creek watershed.

Uh it's going to be uh back to that Bishop Creek, and which is very important to our city for water source, and we'd like to know exactly what impact that would have on the on the creek.

Um I live um I moved to original town site after food and shelter was built, so I don't know what it was like before.

I've heard it was a pretty nice neighborhood to live in.

Um but since we moved there, we've had several items stolen out of our yard, and one night, one afternoon, actually, someone threw a large rock through our bedroom window.

Um so uh all we're asking for is to be able to be safe in our own homes, and we don't really feel like we have that right now, but we would like to be able to have uh impact as an organization and as a community in the planning of this thing so that that we can you have a place at the table because this is what it's mostly impact.

Thank you.

Thank you, John McGraw.

Appreciate the opportunity to talk tonight.

I left my house and without putting my hearing aids in.

So if I'm talking real loud, just let me know, please.

So I'm uh John McGraw from Ward 4, member of the original town site neighborhood organization.

While I understand that the item tonight is just the purchase of three acres, what happens at those three acres obviously is going to impact our neighborhood.

Can we agree that residents need a seat at the table while the potential shelter plans for that property are being developed and to minimize further impact of a permanent shelter that it might be on our community?

I appreciate the city of Norman and the members of the uh continuum of care and faith-based and Norman community leaders on the long hard work they've done for many years to address this issue.

Homelessness is complex and difficult.

Just because previous plans didn't work as promised, doesn't mean new plans necessarily won't.

We just need to want to be involved.

Thank you.

Thank you.

John Scamyhorn.

Stephen Ellis.

Sorry, this microphone keeps popping in and out.

Hi, Steve Ellis Ward 4.

Um I actually live uh on Reed Avenue, about a little less than four blocks south.

I'm a little about four blocks south of food and shelter, so this is a little uh south of that.

Uh not in the original town site uh neighborhood because I live south of Alameda, but I live just south of Alameda.

So I can walk to food and shelter quite easily.

Some of the food and shelter uh uh employees live in my neighborhood.

And so I understand that there are concerns about the location of uh homeless shelter in the area.

As a matter of fact, most of us who live over there understand that food and shelter creates certain kinds of burdens on our neighborhood.

And I also recognize that in general, people don't want to live close to the very poorest people in town because that can affect their property values.

And it also can affect the stability of their neighborhood.

But we're there already, right?

I mean, food and shelter exists there already, and there has to be some place for people who are very poor and indigent to have a place to lay their head.

And this is a nice location.

It's close to services, and in particular, the services offered at food and shelter.

I I do think that it makes a lot of sense for the city to do things to lessen the impact of a permanent shelter uh in that neighborhood for the neighbors.

Uh and in particular, I think just providing more amenities in that neighborhood would be really useful.

And I think would also help unhouse people as well.

Um so I I do think that close consultation, I think you should buy the site for sure tonight.

It's a great deal.

Dan was exactly right about that.

Um, I think we should buy that.

I think we should have a planning process for how that would work.

And I I think it is important that the neighbors have some say in what goes on, but it just can't be a veto.

People have to be someplace, and this is a very good place for people to be.

And I think at the limit, uh I want to agree with Dan Munson.

It might be useful for the city to at least consider as the very bottom line potentially buying some houses in the area.

But I think there are also things that the city can do uh to support the area that involve uh, you know, design kinds of issues that might be able to be helpful.

I don't know exactly how those would work.

Uh there are probably best practices somewhere, but also just amenities.

There should be parks, there should be things that you can do in that neighborhood that make that neighborhood attractive regardless.

But I want to be very, very clear.

I really think we need to have this shelter ASIP.

Uh I uh some of you may know I'm on the board of Norman caravans, and we got a report yesterday that there is uh uh sort of police, Norman police action sort of over on near Ed Noble Parkway that's going to be moving some people from the place that they're sheltering right now.

Uh it's getting to be winter.

We've got to find places for people to stay.

We can't just keep kicking this can down the road.

So let's make this as easy as possible for the neighbors, but let's do it.

Thanks.

Marguerite Larson.

Marguerite Larson, Ward Six.

I feel very strongly that this property should be purchased immediately so that things can be started.

I agree with our Word 4 residents that they should have some say in it, but I also think that we need to have something permanently located for our in-house population.

It's better safety for them, it's better safety for the entire city.

Actually, I don't know what that Ward Floor feels most impacted, which they probably are, but it does affect the rest of the city as well.

And I really believe that if we had full services in there, we were providing education and we were actually taking care of our own house instead of just throwing them somewhere because we don't want to look at them.

Doesn't really make sense.

We have had this problem for a long time.

We now have a possibility of finding some sort of solution, and I think that the sooner we act on this, the better off the entire community is going to feel and going to be, and you as lawmakers will probably feel great about knowing you're helping our unhoused population possibly staying out of the winter cold.

So I am hoping that this passes this evening and that you all agree do agree to purchase this property.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Valerie Warren.

Hi.

Hi I live in Ward 4, and I'm a member of the original township.

And I live like 500 yards away from where this is proposed in this triangular-shaped piece of land we're trying to purchase.

I also agree that we gotta do something.

And I can tell you, I can't even go by my notes anymore, but it has been difficult to say the least.

And kind of an older lady, it's getting more challenging.

We all gotta work it together.

We're in it together.

I'm not sure exactly what the solution is, but I really feel strongly about maybe we do a neighborhood impact assessment, and um I'm under a lot of care for anxiety and heart issues right now, and um this is just adding to it more on a personal note.

We try and all interact and live together.

I mean, we have to.

Um we uh do the best we can, but it is getting I don't want to more than difficult, and um we sometimes can't get uh people to respond when we need it, so at least security should be an issue, maybe address the crime that comes with the overflow from the um like because not everybody can get into the shelter.

There's people that have issues that allows that doesn't allow them in there.

That overflow does tend to hang around, so so they have easier access to what they need, and anyway, uh I feel like I'm kind of reiterating what we've all been talking about.

But thank you very much for the time to address this issue, and um, I hope we all find a good solution that works for everybody that we can all be safe because it is a safety issue for them as well as for us.

Uh anyway, thank you again for your time.

Thank you, Floyd Carroll.

I'm pretty sure all you guys know me.

So my advice to you guys is that good leaders solve problems, great leaders solve what caused the problem.

But uh I also realized because you guys are in government, you create problems and then want to solve them, and then we're gonna pat you on the back and get throw money at you.

But surely you can take one of the nutty professors' class, economics class, and understand that.

And I'm glad Stephen Ellis is for it because I'd like for him to move down there with them, and I'll buy him a tent and I'll go down there and check on him every now and then to make sure he's alright.

Yeah, I'm the guy that sent the video over here with a girl getting raped in the middle of the daytime, and she somebody got stabbed in the face before I I got out of this meeting in here.

Actually, I was kind of handpicked for this, so I was born and raised in Oklahoma.

My kids were stolen from me and screwed up, and I was charged for it.

Now two of them's dead.

One of my grandson home, so I've been raising grandkids over there for 20 years.

So if if we can't feel safe over there, I don't think you guys should feel safe anywhere where you're at.

Is that fair?

And also, this young lady that's talking about fixing that community up.

We asked for lights in that whole neighborhood, and we got denied.

You should write that down.

Thank you guys, Misty Lamb.

Hello.

My name is Misty Lamb, and I live in Word 4 in the original town site neighborhood.

I am part of the original town site um association, and also was the event or the event chair.

So I plan the events in our neighborhood, and we did tons of cleanups and stuff, trying to already assess the issues that we have currently.

I ask that you guys postpone this and really assess the situation because we are the ones that affects directly.

I mean, just me on I live on Main Street.

I sit on my porch and I have seen prostitution, I have seen drug deals, I have seen them use drugs, literally just sitting on my porch.

I have seen them use drugs, literally just sitting on my porch.

I've seen them defecate right on the corner of Finley and Maine.

Like literally, they use the bathroom right on the street.

So fixing the situation is a necessity.

We do need something.

But heed the rush.

Make sure that you're making the right decision and it's going to be effective because up till now it's not.

So we need that affection.

We are not safe in our neighborhood.

I can't go on my porch after dark.

I can't do things in my yard.

I can't.

I'm where we live in fear already.

So adding to the situation, building something permanent that I'm for it.

We I I know the need.

I see it every single day.

Walk in front of my house.

I see the carts hauled in trains.

I know we need something.

But make sure that it's not gonna be something that directly impacts the ones that do pay taxes, that do pay to live in this town.

You know, I I just really hope y'all take into consideration that this is going to directly affect our neighborhood.

Yes, it affects Norman as a whole, but it directly affects us.

So consider us when you're making these decisions.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Trey Kirby.

Jeanette Coker.

I don't think issue.

Jeanette Coker, ward for my understanding is that you're buying this land next to food and shelter to put a homeless shelter or facility on.

Done before I can give you my opinion on this.

You council members need one too.

What impact is expected?

What impact has food and shelter had on our neighborhood?

There's got to be a group somewhere that has done impact studies.

That's expected for what you all are thinking about doing.

And you need to know that also.

I guess what I want to do is redirect your focus.

I feel like your focus is on the homeless.

I want you to focus on us.

We live there.

And they say the homeless presence means they can't go outside after dark.

They have to pick up whiskey bottles and beer bottles and drug needles off of their front porch and out of their yards.

Well, food shelter has a new director.

I think we should give her a chance to change the impact.

Because right now the impact will clearly be negative and absolutely intolerable.

And give, I think her name is Mrs.

Billings, is that right?

Give her some time to improve the impact.

Now, someone suggested that you buy the property that's most affected.

What would those people do?

You're not gonna give them there's been houses for sale.

They can't sell them because they're they and you can't keep them rented because people are sleeping on their porch or sleeping in their shed.

They can't even rent them.

And so they're not worth anything monetarily, except it's a place for those people to live.

Unless you buy them a comparable house somewhere else in Norman, you are not being fair.

So I don't like the idea of buying the houses.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Luigi Pulvani.

Hello.

Luigi, what for?

I would say just okay.

I didn't work for I would probably work for one of which is less than a block from the shelter.

So I'm very directly impacted.

I would say buy that lot.

There is no downsides on buying it.

If you change your mind tomorrow, we can make a park, we can make whatever else with it, we can make a storage, whatever.

Once the city has this piece of land, then we can decide what to do with it.

Then we can do studies, then we can do everything.

But we have an opportunity to buy, let's go for it.

I want to remember you, remind you that the one time we had a vote about a permanent shelter, word for voted overwhelmingly in favor.

So the one time we asked everyone in Word 4, the word itself was very much on board.

All the delaying tactics, let's wait, let's see, are just a soft no, as well as all the um saying let's not do it without any alternative suggestion because we do need uh place to not let the less fortunate of us sleep in the cold.

Um the uh original town site neighborhood association made some great point, extremely reasonable, and uh uh I think everything is summarized with uh we want to sit at the table, and that seems the most reasonable Pacific point.

Um we should talk about it, not saying not made it.

I said let's build it together.

Let's build it in a way that makes everyone comfortable and safe, because there are issues, that's undeniable.

Uh I've heard all sorts over the years been involved with neighborhood association, I've heard all sorts of stories, and then when I ask, so did you report to the police?

Is there a report has been filed?

Is does this exist has been documented.

The situation was getting gets very spotted, and you had many answers there.

So I don't know if there is uh lack of belief in the police, lack of reporting.

I don't know what it is, but for sure the stories we hear, they're not in the report and not in the numbers, they're not accounted for.

And um for sure we could use more police presence over there because I never I I'm lucky enough to never had any issue with uh food traffic.

I live on Gray, so they go straight in front of my house.

Drives my dog crazy.

Um never had an issue, but there are situations when I've seen people that maybe could have used some help, people that may have not been on the street, and uh maybe uh some police presence more concentrated in that area could help.

I would love to have the police chief here to speak for what's being done and what's planning on doing and reassure all the residents.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Cindy Rogers.

Good evening, Cindy Rogers.

Um, as uh my partner told you we live about four blocks away, not in the immediate neighborhood, but um certainly we have some experience, particularly when the Mattoon camp was just across on the north side of uh Alameda.

So um I think it's a no-brainer to purchase the land.

The price you can't beat.

Um there will be uses for it no matter what, but I also think it makes a whole lot of sense to locate a shelter near services.

And so I know there's a lot of impact.

Oh, by the way, I don't think we did a neighborhood impact study when the shelter was put downtown either.

Um I know every place that we've proposed for a shelter, there's um a lot of concern about um and valid concerns about the immediate localized impact.

So I don't think we should discount those.

And if you don't kick people out at 7 a.m., they're not traip through neighborhoods all hours of the day because they're where they're near where they need to be and where they can get the services to help them get out of homelessness.

But that being said, I think we should, as we proceed to actually design build the shelter, we should think about this like we do spUDs.

You have to protect the neighborhood.

I just had a very brief conversation with the police chief back there, and I said, remember that neighborhood policing stuff we talked about, which we're not doing, because I was like, couldn't we just have a designated police presence in that neighborhood?

Like, shouldn't that neighborhood get more presence than the rest of Norman because they are more impacted by factors related to people being unhoused?

Um he seemed to, well, he's suggested, and I believe him, that he just doesn't have the staffing for that.

So I think as we develop this plan, we should find funding for a designated police presence, community policing, a person that's there that knows the neighbors, that knows the impacted community that is there 24-7 or whatever the shifts are.

I think that absolutely has to be part of this plan.

That has to be the trade-off you make with a neighborhood that is going to be impacted, that doesn't feel safe, and you we can do that.

Um, I can't tell the police chief what to do with the staffing, but if you added a designated line that definitely goes for that, then you sort of can.

And you guys control the budget.

So I would propose that that be part of the bargain of putting the shelter there.

Um I also know there's lots of design features you can do to protect the neighborhood, to control where people will be walking.

But this notion that providing shelter in places for people to be actually gets people off the streets, out of the business um porches, out of people's yards.

And so I think that has to be part of the solution.

We if we don't, if we just keep pushing people out from where they are, they have to be somewhere.

They have to go to the bathroom somewhere.

We have no facilities for people.

So we're not going to end homelessness, but maybe we can help some people improve their situation and improve the situation that this neighborhood is facing right now.

Thank you.

Mayumi Winlar.

Hello, uh, Miami Windler Ward 2.

Um really awkward piece of land being that weird triangle with the creek there.

I'm wondering how much of that 3.23 acres is actually usable, like where you can build things on it.

Um recognizing that it is an awkward piece of land.

How about a community garden, like in that southern part where it's just like that little point?

Um, you know, a community garden would be good for the food and shelter people for anybody that would be staying at this to be built shelter.

It'd be some place that you know the community can use.

It could be a good like growing kind of opportunity, not just vegetables, but growing a community.

Um pets.

There needs to be a place for pets.

People don't want to, you know, abandon their animals, and so I know that's why a lot of them will not go to shelters because they can't take their animals, and so that would be important too.

Thanks.

Uh council member Grant.

Um is there any other comment from anybody else in the audience on this item that hasn't spoken yet?

Please.

Sure.

Please remember to speak your name and ward number clearly into the record.

Excuse me.

Karen Chapman, ward four.

And I want to be only the second person to mention the impact on Bishop Creek here.

This area is, it's my understanding, close to a tributary of Bishop Creek.

I can't emphasize enough they need to have a plan in a force to control any litter, any discharge that has the possibility of going into the watershed and subsequently into that tributary, into Bishop Creek, into the Canadian River, so on and so forth.

There needs to be a plan, regardless of what you want to do with this property to take care of this issue, to have someone on it at all times to make sure there is no discharge or litter going into that tributary.

Please.

Thank you.

This piece of property is a piece of property that advocates for the unhoused have been working on for years.

We've been dreaming about it.

It's nice.

I believe somewhere I read the city manager wanted to make sure that it was a purpose-built homeless shelter.

I like that.

That's what it's supposed to be.

On top of the houses in the area, you know, they're rough.

The city should buy them.

You could even make a program out of rehabbing them and then putting people in them cheaper than putting them in single family residences.

Just saying.

I think that there is getting platted and plotted.

I don't, is that right?

Yes.

So after that, fences and lights would be really good.

Because we do need to take care of the neighbors that are over there.

If we're not going to buy the houses, we need to make sure that they are safe and they go outside at night because I can go outside at night, they should too.

Let's see.

Yeah, I guess that's about it.

Vote yes on this, please.

Uh I'd love to see this grow as I continue on.

Thank you.

I think that um say it again.

I shall leave ward three.

I think that the city should purchase this land.

Um I don't think the city has taken three, four years to think about it without considering various different aspects.

Um I'm confident the city will hopefully take the residents' um concerns and like everything else, have a group study session committee, whatever that comes together, including residents and including a diverse group of residents and citizens that would represent those that live in that area.

But I think one has to remember, including the residents has to remember that right now where the shelter is, we have a lot of businesses that have come to the city complaining that it's impacting the current um businesses in that area, and where we've been moving the shelter back and forth from Main Street to Gray, it's been impacting the current um economy, the area over there.

And so, you know, as a group of citizens, we all have to think collectively that the city has been listening to this group, this ward, this group of citizens, and the only people suffering in this whole time are the unhoused.

They're not changing where they're at, and we're messing with a group of people's psyche, and they're not changing the environment, they're not getting any better.

So someone mentioned it earlier.

The root problem is we're trying to make these people come out of the situation where they're at, and we're not helping their situation by shifting them around.

You know, I'm an educator.

When we train kids and we try to help them become stronger students in the classroom, we don't just move them around, we help them in the situation by helping them become lifelong learners and help them in the classroom.

We give them different skill sets, and that's well not what we're doing with the unhoused right now.

We're just shifting them around and telling them that you're a problem.

Well, let's work as a city and work with these unhoused and help them and help them.

The root cause is we're trying to find an environment to work with them.

And if we work as a city and come together as a city, we'll help them.

So we're moving them away because it's caused a problem everywhere.

So let's just move them one time and work together as a city.

That might help.

All right, this is an opportunity.

Let's see.

Yeah.

Yes.

Are there any final comments, questions from council?

We have Councilmember Grant.

Yes.

First, I just want to thank everybody for coming out, especially from original town site.

I'll just put this out there again because it's been some months since I last posted about this in some online forums.

But it has always been my intent to once if we get this land, um, begin the process of connecting with the different neighborhoods.

Um I'm gonna call Eastwood Park area for uh Professor Rogers and Ellis, but then there's original town site, there's first courthouse.

We also have nonprofits and businesses that operate in the area.

I'll just say that food and shelter also has different leadership now, and the mission that they have for those tiny homes, I think will be coming more to the forefront.

On that note, we have a pace team officer, Lieutenant McWarter who serves on the board, and so I'm hearing that the culture is beginning to shift, especially enforcing trespassing and shopping carts.

Um if we approve and I'm supportive of buying the land and going through the process, which I will ask planning director Hudson and City Attorney Anthony Purington some questions here in a minute to kind of address those concerns you have about impact.

But um I would just say that I think that there are a lot of uh opportunities to collaborate on the design and the impact.

I as I understand it, City Care is interested in talking to all the neighborhoods and impacted stakeholders.

Um I will say for downtown because after City Care took over, um they've done a lot of legwork with the business community and have built a lot of trust in return to the point that there are people who weren't supportive before who are now interested in donating um to CityCare's mission.

So I say all that uh just to you know prime the pump that I will be reaching out should we vote on this tonight and secure this land.

And with that, I would like to invite planning director Hudson up first.

Good evening.

So we're just purchasing the land, but could we go through the steps for uh the actual process of uh bringing this online?

Like will we have pre-developments?

What kind of uh process can we expect and therefore invite our concerned residents to participate in along the way.

Correct.

Uh so yes, this would have a pre-development meeting because they will have to plat the property.

It is actually less than 40 acres, so technically, if it was already platted, they wouldn't have to do a pre-development meeting, but because it's not platted, we will have the pre-development meeting after they have that, then they would go forward to uh planning commission.

Of course, come to you for city council.

We would have the uh internal meetings, we have a DRT meeting, which uh internal staff looks at the preliminary plat, we do the review for that, and that all happens before we go to planning commission.

Those aren't necessarily public meetings, they can come to them if they want to, but it's really an internal meeting, and we meet with the engineers and everything that are working on that design.

Um, to address one of the points that was brought up with a citizen oversight or other ways of putting guardrails on this.

Um, I'm just thinking of like even like landscaping and lighting, all that gets worked out before it goes to pre-development or after like somewhere in between.

It doesn't have to be before it goes to pre-development.

Uh the city being the applicant, if we have worked everything out and we have the site plan the way we want it, uh we were always open to additional neighborhood comments at the pre-development meeting, and maybe that's something we want to change after we have the pre-development meeting.

Um, we really need all of that in place when we come to planning commission.

So, writing the SPUD narrative, we would be able to write in there those controls for lighting, landscaping.

There's been discussion of wall, if that's something that we're you know, looking at as well that would all need to be included in that SPUD narrative.

Um, and just to go back to some of the things that we've done ahead of time.

We plan to vacate an alley as I understand it to create uh less opportunities for I would say mischievous behavior, but you know, problematic camping.

Um when we think about creating an environment that is supportive of the neighborhood and this we want the shelter to be successful and the operations to run smoothly.

Um these are some of the things that we might discuss in the holistic design of what's going on over there.

Um these are some of the things that we might discuss in the holistic design of what's going on over there absolutely, except I'm not a hundred percent sure where we are on closing and vacating that alley.

I know it has been a discussion.

I don't know if the city manager wants to respond to that because I'm not sure exactly where we are on that.

Okay.

Uh the council's direction was clear to uh initiate the process to abandon the alley.

And this is just to be clear, because I'm sure there are folks that have you know just started listening in.

Um if they may have missed this in a previous meeting, can we clarify that Allie?

So I believe there's two pieces.

There's a north-south component and a small east-west component behind reed.

Um, and there was mischievous activity happening uh back in the alley, and at the recommendation of our pace team in the Norman Police Department, they said we don't really have a lot of utility activities.

We're not picking up trash back there in that alleyway, and to uh eliminate the opportunity for behavior we would like to see less of council can abandon the alleyway, and basically what happens is the property is abandoned to the adjacent property owners through community development block grant funding, uh we have the ability to build brand new backyard fences for neighbors and their backyard just got bigger, and they won't have people behind their fence doing naughty things.

So that's that is an effort that it was separate and apart from the push for a permanent shelter location, but should absolutely improve the quality of life for those neighbors.

And what is the time estimate on getting that actually vacated?

I'll look over at Mr.

Sturts.

Months 90 days, 120 days.

Has to go to district court, so potentially 90 days optimistically.

Um right.

Um then on an impact assessment, and I don't know if this is for Anthony Purington or not, but how would we build that impact assessment into the process of rezoning and planning?

Is it a part of the process?

Well, I I guess so I'll answer it from my side.

The way I would look at it.

I mean, the impact assessment would be how we can have those control measures that are written into the SPUD narrative.

We would look at that from the meetings that we would have with the community, pre-development meetings.

Um I don't know that there would be a different impact assessment report along with this, but ideally, what we write in that SPUD narrative would be the control factors, and we would be getting that input from them.

And I also feel having done a few of these, that there's usually a traffic assessment or study depending on uh like what we expect to happen over there.

I think Scott's search should probably answer that, but I know with platting there is a traffic impact.

And I do think that that road doesn't go all the way through.

It doesn't work.

So that's why you know we're come on, Scott.

Yeah, Scott Sturts, director of public works.

Uh so in this case, because of the size and the volume, there would not be a full-blown traffic impact analysis.

There would just be a letter, and that would be what we use to make those determinations as far as traffic and decisions that we made regarding traffic control or changes that would be necessary, but because of the size, it does not it does not warrant enough trips in a day that we do a full traffic impact analysis.

Um what could we expect of public works role in this?

Because like we were talking about uh access to the site, also where the road dead ends.

Um would your department have input on how that should be developed to be super functional for both the shelter and the neighborhood?

Certainly, this would be just like any other development project.

We work closer with our partners in planning.

Uh the DRT team is both it's part us, it's part them, it's parks, it's utilities, it's all just coming together.

We're all involved in the plotting process, and it all plots go through that process.

We look at what traffic flow is necessary, what what items are gonna be problematic.

We've already taken some time to start looking at this.

Uh so yes, there would definitely be a joint effort of by all city staff that would be involved in the normal plotting processes.

Okay, thank you.

And then uh if city attorney Anthony Pierrington would like to come up to the podium.

Yes.

I feel you're holding the piece of the puzzle that would speak to what City Care's intentions are and also how the city would proceed in taking in uh input from stakeholders.

So if uh you would like to outline some of that.

Um, you know, I'm not necessarily sure I have that answer, but I do know kind of what City Care's intentions are to some degree.

Uh I think that you know one of the things we love about City Care as a partner is the fact that they're kind of the model uh in a lot of respects.

Um, and that's one that we identified as terms of a best practice in terms of how to operate a shelter.

I think that they have a lot of really great policies in Oklahoma City on good neighbor agreements and stuff like that.

They've shown very impressive uh you know efforts in order to like mobilize the communities around them and like be involved in the communities around them.

They have also I will say been key in redevelopment around the areas where they operate, especially in regards to permanent supportive housing.

And I think they're one of the, if not the largest, permanent supportive housing operator um in Oklahoma City, and they're the developer as well of those housing units, and a lot of the times they're in the areas around where they operate.

So in the event that you know we are looking, or there's you know, opportunities for redevelopment in the area surrounding this site, I think that we're primed with our partnership with CityCare to utilize those permanent supportive housing and that model that they have in Oklahoma City, and potentially that would be a great way and great avenue in order to kind of um maybe invest in that area and kind of expand what they're doing in permanent supportive housing, low-income rentals, stuff like that.

To that point, uh to address the neighborhood impacts, and uh I would say that if CityCare is really good at what they do, they don't really utilize a full-time COP, they have security procedures that work for them.

I think this was kind of a point of contention with working with food and shelter when they ran a friend's house.

Um, I'm also aware pace is in the area.

If we were to do a neighborhood impact study, could we pull data about how property is moving in the area and then also what calls for service look like uh currently?

Um Councilmember Grant, we do have access to that data and would be happy to assemble that and share that with council and the neighbors uh just to recognize what current conditions are and then what anticipated conditions should be.

Yeah, okay.

Um I would say, have you been able to talk to the new leadership of food and shelter about their thoughts on the potential permanent shelter in this area?

Uh my understanding is that Kathy Billings, who is I think the new um director of food and shelter is not starting until the early December.

Um I know for a fact that you know, like you mentioned, Lieutenant Lee McQuarter is on their board.

He has been very um great in terms of like that's kind of the communication channel that we have.

So I mean, we know that they're aware of it, and then I know that CityCare uh is in very close collaboration at the moment with uh food and shelter uh in terms of like getting prepared for winter and everything like that.

So I think that that collaboration is already underway in terms of the operator side of things.

Um, and I think that you know we're we're lucky in this regard because we have you know, food and shelter who's right next door, um, who we uh have partnered with in the past, and then also city care, both of these are operators who are gonna be able to provide a great uh perspective when we go to make decisions about design, about um functionality, about neighborhood impact, and there's gonna be a lot of lessons learned.

Um, I think to be able to not have one and two, I think, providers who we can draw experience from is gonna be invaluable as we go through that process.

So that collaboration is necessary and it's ongoing.

Um I think I see new opportunities for collaboration, especially with new leadership at food and shelter, and to maybe restart some conversations that may have fallen to the wayside over the years regarding impacts in the area.

Um I would I just ask at let's say we buy this and then we move on to the next step.

Is that really just beginning to connect the dots between residents, nonprofits, businesses uh in the area on the design.

I think that you know it in order to do what you're saying.

I think, unless we if we just follow the same process that we've always followed, there's always going to be that baked in um community input element of it.

Um so I think in on the one hand, the design that's kind of the purpose of how it's been designed and the process that's in place.

Um that being said, it's also a flexible process, and there's a lot of different ways that you can implement that uh if that's what city council it wants to direct.

And I think that you know, we can be as flexible as we need to be to work with the community, and I think uh that process gives those um opportunities as well.

Okay, and then uh to the residents' point about being concerned about what it's already happening there.

Um would you say that the pace team right now is like the best connection for a neighborhood that is experiencing those issues?

Uh to you know, we can talk to um Chief Foster, but he's not really working in that particular angle of the issues that the homeless uh crowd presents.

So if people wanted to get things addressed, they would connect with Lieutenant McGorders PACE team.

Um I think so.

I mean, I think again, pace team already knows that area, they've already been heavily involved in that area.

Um there's a lot that goes on uh with the pace team in terms of you know it's not just you know, for example, like trespassing.

That has been something that we have been working with city care very closely, or not city care, uh, food and shelter very closely uh in the past several months, I would say, in terms of enforcing trespassing after hours.

Uh efforts have ramped up uh to try to kind of address that concern.

Uh and that has been very successful, and I think that uh that is a lot of it is contributed directly from Lieutenant McCorter's team.

So that's already ongoing.

So, yes, I think you know, reaching out to the pace team for sure.

Uh I I think that there's probably not a whole lot that they're gonna point out that the pace team is not already aware of.

Um, but I do think that that makes in those connections.

Yes, that connection is important.

Oh, and Councilmember, to that point, we recognize that all of the property immediately outside the footprint of the existing food and shelter property is state land, and all of those activities that are less than desirable are only enforced by the county sheriff's office.

And I would say they just they don't have the level of responsiveness that our pace team has.

If the city owns it, the city is responsible for policing it and ensuring it operates according to the adopted rules in the SPUD.

So if we acquire this three acres, that's just more area that we have say in.

And I just as an aside, I will say that one of the officers on the PACE team is very excited because there's a particular uh electrical box that's right on that property that they're very excited to be able to enforce after.

So I I think that that does offer three point two or you know, 3.23 more acres of city's jurisdiction to enforce.

Okay.

Um, thank you.

I have no more questions.

Councilmember Gansbury.

Yes, um, I just like to kind of address some of the concerns brought up by the citizens, especially citizens award for in particular.

Before I even was elected on council, and one of the running points I had on council is my passion due to my outside normal job is all of our communities.

I want all of our citizens, those that have jobs that don't have to all succeed in some way, shape, form, or fashion.

And this discussion that we're having tonight at earliest, as we heard, is a six-month down the road project at best.

Next week, we could possibly have snow and ice on the ground.

And I'm gonna have some pregnant lady out sleeping in the snow.

I'm gonna have a senior citizen out there sleeping in the snow, and I'm gonna have a veteran out there sleeping in the snow that don't have a place to stay because our shelters aren't big enough, don't have enough room, don't operate the right waste, kick them out in the morning, can't stay all day in the warmth, things like that that this problem will solve for the future.

Okay.

Another thing that I'd like is to encourage everybody more for truly.

Helen's had some very, very great ideas, and the master plan that I've seen of the Griffin property as a whole would be my selling to point to y'all that's put up with the impact of the negativity of everything.

And to know that I've worked really well with Anthony, and as some may or may not be aware, we just purchased the land that the actual soccer fields that we pay 20 million dollars for, we just finally purchased that land from the state, working for over 10 years to be able to get that finalized with the state, because state agencies change names and numbers every day of the week, basically.

And for him to stand up here tonight and say, guess what happened?

The state literally has already signed the paperwork for us at this price tag, is unheard of in our realm and world.

So we would be foolish not to gladly hurry up and sign that contract before they get fired at another person takes a spot and they don't want to sell.

But as we've all heard in the news lightly, in my world, in my realm that I live in, I'm very, very grateful.

State of Oklahoma's going to invest in a great facility for mentally health in Oklahoma City at our state capital.

And we have a great plan in place with some of our people and developers in our town for that property that is in your front yard and is what you see that includes a brand new school possibility, brand new housing possibilities.

An upstander will actually increase the value of your property that you currently have now.

So we have to look at the long game sometimes rather than just a short hardship for all of us as a city.

But no, personally, I wrote down every single person's thought of what they would like to see or be heard of and do and everything else.

And I'm going to make it my point that I at least try to address these for you and make myself available for any and all these concerns that you're going to have moving forward.

Councilmember Bruce.

I don't know if this is a question for Anthony or the city manager, but uh I'm glad to see the lines of communication are open with the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health.

I would like to see those remain open for other opportunities that might present themselves soon as we maybe future cutouts and stuff of that nature.

But uh I think it's smart to push forward with the land purchase.

But I also think it's smart to continue talking with the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and keep those lines of communication open because you never know what other opportunities may come up in the future.

I would like to get some type of confidence that's going to occur or our plan to ensure that occurs.

The current administration at the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse appears to be um serious about the transition to the SSM behavioral health hospital that's been vacant for a while up in Oklahoma City.

Um we saw the news report, I think when our community saw the news report that uh the state was able to uh reach a deal with the Catholic Church, and we were told that that process could take six months to two years because it requires a signature of the Pope.

Apparently that happened.

They are moving forward at uh an accelerated pace to occupy that facility, and they recognize Griffin is just it's got limitations.

Uh, but since the facility they have now acquired was originally designed to provide that service, they indicate they'll have 30 beds occupied by the end of this calendar year, which I've never seen the state move that fast on anything.

That was shocking.

And they're telling us they believe they will fully occupy the new facility by the end of 2026.

Uh so we're excited to see um an accelerated pace.

We are now receiving phone calls from the development community from out of Oklahoma that saw those news stories, have gone to our website to look at council's master plan and said, we we think we might be interested in helping make that happen in Norman.

Who do we talk to?

Uh Mr.

Puritan has been very successful in uh keeping contact with those people who have been able to help move the soccer park forward, now this piece forward, and hopefully ultimately the balance of that property so we can get that private investment uh in the Norman and turn right now what is just a bunch of vacant land not on any tax roll into a positively producing asset in Norman.

It's the largest infill opportunity in city limits.

Um it is rare that such an infill opportunity comes with zero current assessed value, and council has discussed the establishment of a tax increment financing district over that property to provide um infrastructure.

It it needs sewer infrastructure, water infrastructure, curb gutter, sidewalk, street lights, all of those things, and those benefits absolutely will spill out uh into neighborhoods on uh all four sides.

So we're gonna keep those people in uh arm's length to grab them whenever we need them, whenever the next opportunity presents itself to leap forward.

And um we're just glad council was able to hang in there the whole way with us and had the vision for uh recognizing the the master plan document that uh you have advanced is is the type of thing that provides comfort to the ultimate end user to say if I take that risk and take down such a big property, I know I'll be working with council to meet their goals and objectives and still receive uh a return.

So I think you're all moving in the right direction, and we've got a really good Rolodex developed now with the current staff at the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services.

Okay.

Okay, um I would just say that uh this has been a pretty long road as far as dealing with shelters in Norman.

We've had shelters in Norman.

I've mentioned before that Salvation Army opened in the late 60s on North Porter, and Food and Shelter for Friends opened in downtown Norman back in 1981 and operated there on uh James Garner, formerly Front Street until 2017.

And um it's proven to be a pretty divisive issue politically in Norman.

Um there are folks that don't think we should have a shelter at all.

That um that if we just got rid of services, then homeless people would wander off somewhere else, and maybe some of them would.

I don't know.

Um, and we have a lot of folks in Norman that support having a shelter but have concerns about where it should go.

Um, a lot of folks that were that are supportive of shelter have kind of the view of I'm all for it as long as it's not in my neighborhood or next to my business, right?

And that's a reasonable um, I think position to have.

Um and when we looked at the Hootner Drive property last year, that was next to an industrial area, next to a railroad tracks, next to an interstate, uh, next to Johnson controls, you know, so uh not near anybody that lived there, uh, but it was near businesses, they had concerns.

Johnson controls had concerns, had interest in buying the property too, apparently.

Um, and the concern there was that property wasn't near anything, there was no public transit there, there were no services within miles of that location, and so um pretty much everybody that night was in agreement that it wasn't a good idea, so we didn't do it.

And um same thing with the Griffin property for years.

Personally, it's something I've believed was the most logical location for a shelter in Norman, that there is no ideal location in our city limits for a shelter, but of anywhere in Norman, the Griffin Hospital property, which has been home to social services for over a hundred years, uh, made the most sense.

Um the piece of property that's in front of us tonight isn't probably the piece of property that I would hand pick if the state said pick what piece of property you want to put a shelter on.

I don't know that that's the one I would pick.

Um but dealing with the state can be very difficult.

It took 10 years to purchase Griffin Park from the state.

And just negotiating for this piece of property has has taken quite a long time and a lot of effort from city staff.

And so I do believe it is an opportunity that we have to take at this moment.

Um, that there is a long road ahead for what actually happens with that property.

Um six months maybe at best, but a permanent shelter, how that's funded, how that's constructed, how long that takes are all questions that are gonna have to be answered before there's a permanent solution there.

And so um I I really do appreciate the residents, all of you that came tonight and spoke about your concerns.

I think they're again very valid concerns.

Um you have every right to have an expectation that city council and staff and nonprofit providers in Norman are going to be respectful to your neighborhood, are going to be proactive about working with you, not expecting you to call us and tell us what you think, but us going into your neighborhood, talking directly with you on your front porch, not here at City Hall, so that we can have an actual perspective about what you're seeing every day.

And then absolutely working with you on what happens to that property, what it looks like if there is a shelter there that's permanent.

How does that look?

How does it function in your neighborhood?

And those are things that you should be involved with.

And that's what every neighborhood expects when we have development projects come forward.

Um many neighborhoods, I know there's some neighbors here tonight from another neighborhood in Norman where there's a proposed development on our next agenda.

And um, you know, neighbors are concerned about lights and noise and traffic and uh changing character of a neighborhood, whether it's a homeless shelter or not, people are generally concerned about things changing in their neighborhood.

Um, whether it's a commercial business coming in or maybe it's uh there was a house there, but now there's gonna be a three-story apartment building there, you know.

So all those things have have impacts on neighborhoods, sometimes positive, sometimes negative.

Um, but uh I again I think there is a road ahead for us, and um I, as mayor absolutely expect collaboration with neighbors on how this goes forward.

Um, I have confidence that Mayor or Mayor Councilmember Grant will uh will be working closely having those neighborhood meetings.

We'll be keeping all of us um to date on those conversations if we're not there.

Uh but as mayor, like I said, I plan to be involved to the best of the best of my ability going forward with this so that we can get something that will actually help address this issue in Norman.

We're not gonna solve homelessness in Norman with this shelter, even if it had 500 beds, it wouldn't solve homelessness in Norman.

There's other issues that we all are familiar with and we could rehash that are bigger than just housing or the city of Norman that go way beyond just our little town here that need attention from the state and federal, and hopefully the new Griffin Hospital will help with that.

I will not hold my breath uh just given the track record of the state of Oklahoma, but um I'm hopeful that they will be able to turn a new page with that new facility, and that more people in central and really throughout the whole state of Oklahoma will get help that they really need that could help prevent them from being ending up in this situation in the first place, or if they are in that situation that will actually help get them out of it so that our communities, our neighborhoods, our police, our nonprofits aren't the ones who are burdened with this every day.

So thank you for your patience, everyone, and I really do look forward to the conversation ahead.

And with that, um I think we can go ahead.

Number seven.

Number seven.

The motion on the floor is to approve the contract.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to approve the contract passes unanimously.

All right.

Next item is miscellaneous comments.

This is an opportunity for citizens to address city council due to open meeting act regulations.

Council is not able to participate in the discussion during miscellaneous comments.

Remarks should be directed to the council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less.

And as a reminder, please state your name and ward number for the record.

We have anyone signed up to speak.

Yes, Mayor.

Um Dan Munson.

Hi, I'm Dan Munson from Ward 7.

I'm gonna be all over the place tonight with topics, so uh just bear with me.

Um first thing I want to say is I think we need to increase city council pay $50 per month annually until we hit a $1,000 stipend uh per month.

So I think I think that's what we need to do.

That would take 18 years to do.

Okay, but I think we need to put that in a ballot, let people vote on it.

I think another option uh is in lieu of payment, allow city council members to be on the health care plan of the city.

So give them a choice.

Um Olympics are coming in 2028.

I would love to see the city of Norman help host uh some uh different events for the Olympics.

I think the WIFAC would be a great facility for us to host a really nice dinner for the people from different countries.

So uh if I can help, I have barbecue pits and I know how to use them, so I'll help in that area.

Um there was some discussion about bonds for police, fire, homelessness.

Um I'm not in favor of that.

What I am in favor of is increase in the PSST percentage.

That's what I'm in favor of.

I feel like we we borrow so much money.

Our state, our federal government, our city.

Um I'm in favor of paygo.

Uh the less interest that we pay as a city, the better.

Are you gonna get things as quickly as if you take out a loan?

No, you're not.

We have a lot of stuff already.

We have a lot of stuff.

Look at what all the things that Norman Ford has brought to the table.

So let's just increase the PSST uh fund.

Um prior to this meeting, there was a uh a meeting uh about the Cleveland County economic development.

Um there was there were several things in there that were concerning for me.

It didn't seem like there was a lot of accountability for the results.

So if you come to me and you're asking me to hire you, I'm gonna ask you well, what kind of what kind of deliverables can I expect?

If I give you a hundred thousand dollars, can you guarantee me a net new 10, 20, 30 million dollars in new revenue?

Will you put that in writing?

How will you measure that?

Who will measure that?

That's what I thought it's required of me as uh as an employee for my company.

I have a new person starting December 1st.

I had to put a dollar figure to what they were gonna increase revenue for my company.

Guess what?

I'm doing monthly reports, I'm doing quarterly annual reviews, I'm doing and uh I'm doing annual reviews.

There is all kinds of accountability that's gonna come in place of me hiring somebody.

Remember this.

If you sign the front of a check, you are an employer.

If you sign the back of a check, you are an employee.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Judy Moss.

I'm very pleased with tonight's council meeting.

Very pleased.

I feel like that uh some of the uh transparency and clarity that we were needing for our neighborhood has been explained well.

I appreciate council member uh Grant's leadership in getting some of these uh questions asked tonight so that while we're here we can get a more clarity because that was our issue as far as the postponement.

Uh we realize that uh dealing with the state has always been difficult.

It did sound like a really good price for the for the land.

We just wanted to make sure that nothing happened that would impact our uh um neighborhood without us having a seat at the table basically.

I feel like that uh the council, the room, the people uh who are here this night in our neighborhood was supportive of what we need to have happen to make us feel more secure.

I was very pleased.

I do feel like that the assessment impact assessment is still important for the simple reason that there may be some things that come out of that assessment we hadn't thought about.

You know, we we we've had a lot of experience with what happened with food and shelter, and we've had a lot of experience in our neighborhood, but there may be some things that the experts can say that we haven't thought about that could be dealt with at the front.

So I still feel like that that assessment is still important.

But um I appreciate the open door, David that you gave us.

I I felt that um and uh I'm very pleased, and I know that I wanted to have this uh vote postponed.

That was my uh stand.

Um but uh the reason I wanted that was clarity, and I got it.

So thank you.

Thank you.

John McGraw.

Okay.

John Scammy Horn, good Stephen Ellis Steve Ellis Ward 4.

Steve Ellis, Ward 4.

I feel like the need to one up Dan Munson here, so I'm going to suggest NIL money for city council members, right?

That's really where all the action is.

And it's even cheap on the on the budget.

So there you go.

I want to thank everyone for their vote on the Reed Avenue purchase tonight.

And more how do we make this work, which I think is exactly the attitude that it's appropriate.

I mean, I I do care.

I live very close there.

So I think it's important to uh to to take care of both the neighborhood and the people who need to use the neighborhood, which includes it's always going to include lots of unhoused people because the the county mental health center is there and food and shelter is very close.

So it's gonna be a place where we're gonna have some of Norman's poorest folks hanging around, and I think it makes some sense to try to do what we can uh to make it possible for people to live there.

Um everybody to live there, right?

I and I want to suggest just like a maybe a down payment or maybe a good faith gesture uh to the people who who live in the neighborhood would be something like uh, you know, ring cameras or alarm services, or even just the city will come out and put in a better deadbolt for you.

Just something that shows that the the council is very very serious about that.

Uh the final thing that I want to address tonight is uh the meeting uh the study session that happened beforehand.

Uh I was I was unable to be there, but when I got here, Cindy handed me uh a copy of the uh the email response that the head of the Norman Economic Development Council sort of doing business now as the Cleveland County Economic Development Council, but it's actually a pretty pretty much the same organization.

And honestly, it doesn't seem like he wants to do business with you guys very much.

He doesn't want to follow through on the earlier contractual obligation to do audits, doesn't want oversight, is is really interested in going a different direction, and I suggest that you let them do it.

There's no particular reason why the city of Norman should be involved in that.

And you know, that's something that you've heard Cindy and I talk about a lot uh up here because we study local economic development issues.

Um they can't really point to super successes.

So they don't want to be responsive to you.

I think it's time to just break up that relationship.

Uh if you build a better mousetrap, if Norman is the kind of place where people see opportunities as um city manager Pyle suggested, uh, you know, the world will beat a path to your door.

And just thinking about things in terms of offering incentives.

I understand there's some discussion at uh uh EDAB meeting about sales tax rebates.

You cannot buy your way to prosperity.

You have to be the kind of community people want to Marguerite Larson, I believe I saw her leave.

Valerie Warren, she left.

I'm starting to enjoy this.

Believe it or not, I don't hate that guy.

He does have he does have some good points.

But we actually try to get lights all over that place over there, and that's been going on for the last year.

I don't know if cameras are gonna work without lights because I got cameras and they work really good with my yard light.

I don't know who's responsible for that stuff.

There is a couple street lights down there too.

I know OGE is responsible for that.

But any cooperation that we can get from this council would be appreciated.

Does the whole city council have to work on this, or could just the city manager push that through?

And also I appreciate you, Holman.

I now that I'm getting to know you better, I like that.

Thank you, Misty Lamb.

No, Misty Joel Rayburn.

Okay.

And I did get confirmed that there are.

Hi, my name is Joel Rayburn.

I'm a constituent of Ward 7.

I'm a student at OU, and I wish I could say it was my pleasure to be standing before you today, but given the circumstances, I can't say that it is.

I'm here to talk about an issue of grave importance that involves threats to the safety of members of our community.

Um you may have heard about the incident involving Dr.

Vahid Abedini at OU.

For those of you who haven't, Dr.

Abedini is a professor of international studies at OU, who we learned yesterday was detained over the weekend by immigrations and customs enforcement.

He was detained while attempting to board a flight to a conference in Washington, D.C.

He was detained at Will Rogers, and no reason was given for his detainment, and for two days he was thrown into jail.

His whereabouts were not known for all intents and purposes, he disappeared into the system.

Now, thanks to public outcry from his students, his colleagues, and his friends, he was released yesterday.

But the story isn't over.

This is just a prelude to the kind of intimidation and political retribution that federal authorities seek to take against more people in Norman against anybody that doesn't conform to exactly what they determine we should think or say or do.

Now I think this should be especially disturbing to you as city leaders of Norman because as the home of the largest public research institution in the state, we have long been a safe haven of inalienable political rights such as freedom of expression.

And on top of that, there are thousands of immigrants that live right here in Norman.

As a student at OU, I've been lucky enough to call many of them my friends, and I will tell you that the international community at OU includes some of the kindest, most generous people I've ever met.

They form an irreplaceable part of our community, and that is a community that now is under threat.

If they can do this to a professor, they can do it to anybody.

They can do it to international students, to the immigrants that live and work and have families here in Norman who call this city their home.

And I would urge you strongly to condemn in an official capacity the illegal detainment and the degradation of the basic dignity of the members of our community who are immigrants.

Furthermore, I would ask you to take whatever action possible to ensure that in the future the Norman Police Department will not collaborate with ICE officials in the execution of their unlawful raids.

In 10, 20, 50 years, our children and our children's children are going to ask us what we did at a moment like this.

This is your opportunity to plant your feet firmly on the right side of history and to do the right thing.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Kirby never showed.

Okay, Jeanette Coker.

And I've talked about this before, but of course we have practically a whole new council, so um I won't give you all my background, but I am a firm believer in high barrier, because particularly in a spot like this.

I think they're called Oxford houses.

They are a good have a good pattern of success.

And don't put people in our neighborhood that you wouldn't want next door to you.

Does that make sense at all?

High barrier, and I don't really know that much about high barrier because all you hear about is low barrier and no barrier and all the reasons why that's uh better, and I don't believe it.

I don't believe it's better because I don't think we are doing anything to help the people at all other than giving them a place to sleep.

I've gotten up and griped and gripes and griped at you all about that too.

But anyway, think about high barrier.

Luigi, Luigi.

Michael Carter.

Thank you.

Uh Mike Mike Carter Ward 4.

I wanted to address a topic that's going to be on your agenda next week, and that's item number four on the consent docket tonight.

That's the application to change R1 zoning to a SPUD on Chautauqua in one of the heaviest traffic corridors in the entire city of Norman.

There, you'll hear from our neighbors next week or the next council meeting.

Uh but I wanted to say a few things.

There are many, many objective reasons to oppose this.

It has to be a spUD because it ignores most of the zoning rules that are already in place.

So it needs special zoning rules in order to go in this place.

And that includes everything from no parking, uh 85% non-permeable.

Uh the water runoff is just not taken care of at all, no recycling.

There are so many and uh no setbacks uh for a three-story building.

But what I wanted to do with my time tonight, because I'll unfortunately be out of town at a business uh situation in two weeks, is to echo Mayor Holman's earlier statement that we need to support the things that make Norman unique.

One of the things that make Norman unique is our campus neighborhoods.

You we have the best tree canopy in our campus neighborhoods.

We have the greatest mix of residents in our campus neighborhoods.

We have everything from million-dollar homes to small rent houses.

Uh they're all R1 zoned.

One of the things the mix of students and full-time residents makes it unique.

This spud will completely change this.

It will push the domino over the edge where we'll have 24 units on a tiny little lot, far too big of a development for the property and for the location.

So our neighbors are afraid that the neighborhood character is going to be irrevocably changed once if this is approved next time.

And we have an example.

We just look east of campus corner and northeast of campus corner.

All of the affordable housing there, nearly all of it's been torn down and replaced with many dorms and student apartments.

We have something to look at and be afraid of.

We don't want that to happen to our neighborhood because we can see the blight that it is over there, and we'd rather not have that happen to our neighborhood.

And to the benefit of only a few people, only a few developers did tearing down all the affordable housing east of campus corner, northeast of campus corner.

Those are the only people that benefited from that.

So many of you probably lived in some of these small rent houses in the campus neighborhood.

I did when I was a student.

And when you live there, you feel like you're in a neighborhood.

You feel like you're part of something, that you're a citizen of the city of Norman, that you're not somebody living in an apartment complex, somebody living in a 24-bedroom house crammed onto a too small lot with inadequate parking.

So let's really examine this closely.

Is this the step we want to take to start the landslide of these giant developments taking the place of our little rent houses in the campus neighborhood?

So thank you.

Barbara, Barbara.

Sorry.

Good evening.

Mayor, council members.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak before you tonight, and I will be back again in two weeks.

I am also addressing item number four on the agenda tonight of the rezoning of the area on South Chautauqua.

I am Barbara O'Brien.

I am a resident at 1124 Chautauqua that is across the street from this proposed rezoning area.

My main concern with this is the traffic impact.

If you've been on Chautauqua, you know that it is one of the main corridors.

It is the main corridor from South Norman, South Campus, all of the dorms, all of the fraternity and sorority houses, all of that, the north-south access to Lindsay, which is one of our major east-west corridors in town.

We live on Chautauqua about three blocks south of Lindsay, and every single day the traffic is already backed up in front of our house because of you know people wanting to access Lindsay and using that light.

There are on football game days, other sporting event days.

It is already an area where we see multiple wrecks every year because you cannot go straight across Hoover.

You have to get on Chautauqua to get to the other side.

And it can be difficult to see when the traffic is backed up.

I'm very concerned about this, and I'm also concerned, as my husband just said, about the potential impact that this can have.

So I will encourage you to vote no on this item two weeks from tonight on the agenda.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Cindy Rogers.

I had a glasses malfunctioned, so I'm gonna squint and read this.

Norman does a lot of things that are very important for economic development.

Our water infrastructure.

Remember when we upgraded our smell and taste in a reverse osmosis system?

That's essential for economic growth.

Our public schools, if you want people to move to your town, you pass school bonds, so you have nice facilities and brand new football fields, bridge bonds, road bonds, all the other bonds, the transit sales tax.

We have a bus system, Norman Ford, quality of life amenities, what was packed with the WIFAC, the Adult Wellness Center, soccer, football, baseball, parks, the room stacks, which supports Norman Sports Authority and Visit Norman, which recruits events and uh happenings in town, police and fire services, industrial site support include in the UNP North, those pads by MI, the help for Emmy to move from South Norman to the UMP, the new road in Saxon Park.

I forget what the industrial park is called there, but by Saxon Park, the upgrades there, two-way grade street, um, University North Park incentives.

All these things are how we invest in our community to make people want to live here, to make businesses want to come here.

So this notion that we have to do something, while it's true, we are doing a lot of some things, and we're doing important things, so things that you know.

My day job, I'm an economist and a professor, and my particular expertise is economic development, regional economic growth, urban economics.

So this is stuff I've been reading about for 30 years and writing about.

In a recent book, Dan Maynes, you probably saw it, Nourishing Growth, Suffocating Life.

He's talking about water infrastructure, economic growth, urban environment, and citizenship in Norman.

He tries to help explain why we subsidize economic growth when it's destructive.

His focus is on how it's destructive for the waterways, but also for civic engagement, and I'll add to that also for our fiscal situation.

Our budget is underwater because we keep growing and we keep adding infrastructure that we have to maintain and capital improvements and expansions we have to do, but we're not getting enough revenue from this new development to pay for that.

So what we do is we shift those costs to current and future property owners and residents who pay property taxes into directly.

So his book points out actually an important point that was, I think mischaracterized in one of the recent meetings about why we vote on utilities.

And that had a lot to do with our attitude and this notion of who should pay for growth.

Yeah, there was a police thing going on, but that wasn't the main push of why we vote on utilities because we have to talk about this discussion.

And that leads me to the Raff Dellis report should be due.

It's November.

We should be hearing about that, which will tell us about the costs of growth and how we're paying for it and how we should think about that.

Thank you.

Mayumi.

Hello, um, Iami Windler Ward 2.

Okay, about reporting on things.

Um I've attended a few of the animal welfare meetings, and they have reports on intakes versus outcomes.

How many animals come in and how many animals go out, whether they be adopted, returned to their homes, or otherwise.

I've asked about this before about you know, people that are at a friend's house, like, you know, where are the statistics there?

How many people are coming in, how many people are gaining permanent housing, you know, are we making progress?

Um then this also goes into the the whole uh NEDC Cleveland County Economic Development Ummission thing.

I only got to see like half of that of the study session.

Um shouldn't we know where that money is going also?

Shouldn't we know where you know how are how is that making an impact?

What are we getting out of it?

That's it.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Maggie Kaufman.

Mr.

Mayor, Council members, I'm Maggie Kaufman, and I live on Hoover Street.

My husband and I have lived there 25 years in Ward 4.

I also am speaking on item four on the consent docket tonight, the proposed 24-unit apartment building on Chautauqua Street.

Charming.

The Hoover and Chautauqua neighborhood is the perfect juxtaposition between Norman life and student life.

West of Chautauqua, you have an established old neighborhood, full of family life, sprinkled with the energy and vitality of student life.

East of Chautauqua, you have the fun and energy of student life, quaint and charming with their porch decorations on game days and their holiday lights.

That's where we live.

That's where we choose to live.

That's where we chose to raise our children.

And choose to enjoy the rest of our days.

The proposed property will at least triple the amount of people in that very footprint.

And will most likely quadruple it.

And with that, the amount of traffic will be quadrupled.

The amount of trash will be quadrupled.

Noise will be quadrupled.

And the view goes from the quaint to the garage.

The only concession, if you can call it that, given to the neighborhood residents, is making Hoover no parking.

That is not something we want.

Remember, this is our neighborhood.

This is our home.

This is where we welcome our family.

We enjoy our kids coming home and play with our grandkids and welcome our family on holidays.

Where do you suppose our guests park?

Does someone valet our 93-year-old mother to the front door and go park a street over?

This is our home.

This is our life.

Don't destroy the beauty and the charm of living near campus just because of greed.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Thank you for your time.

Please.

Please state your name and ward for the record, please.

Hello, my name is Michael.

I am in Michael Gladson from Ward 4.

Um I would just like to put a little bit of pushback against something that was spoken about tonight.

Um I think that police presence isn't really the answer to the neighborhood's problems.

We need more mental health uh officials.

I I don't know if that is like a station within the COC.

Uh but I've been profiled to my own neighborhood walking, I walk, um, and it's not a good feeling.

Uh and they're not equipped to to deal with that kind of problem.

So yeah, that's basically it.

I sorry, I'm a little nervous.

That's my first time speaking, so uh but I I think mental health would be mental health professional would be the best way to kind of tackle that problem.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, anybody else?

Final comment?

Please.

Hello, my name is Joe Grobowski, and I'm from Ward 4.

That I'd like to address the item four on the agenda.

Um, I live in that neighborhood.

In fact, I'm about a hundred yards away from the proposed slate of that building.

Um I didn't get on my radar until last night, actually, and then I didn't see the plans until uh just before the meeting.

But I'm looking at a three-story structure that has the capability of people on the top floor looking into my backyard.

And the neighborhood itself has a special character, and it's had that way.

I've been there for since 1993, raised my kids there and things like that.

So you know, I've liked that neighborhood, but that would certainly be an encroachment that I've seen different proposals put forward that have kind of nibbled away at pieces of the neighborhood and things like that, but it still maintains a lot of that character that we have there.

So, and then when I looked at the plans itself, I'm seeing a building that's going to be 12 feet off the right-of-way.

And I'm saying that uh, you know, you're putting a big structure sort of like telling you that your individual space is one inch, you know, and and that's certainly an encroachment into the neighborhood itself in a general way that uh that sort of overshadows the uh the neighborhood in a in a not a very good way.

Um as I moved made notes here today.

One of the other things that I thought about was that the building fits on that property, at least the proposed building fits on that property, sort of like a postage stamp.

And so there's not really much space outside of the building on that property uh for things, and that includes you know the refuse, the the garbage pickups and things like that.

That one of the things that I've noticed over the last year in the neighborhood, I'm not sure where it started.

I suspect some of this is really coming from the fraternity houses, but but I've been noticing more rats on my property.

And I think that that is a generalized issue, actually.

I may talk to the fraternities there about you know how they manage their dumpsters and things like that.

But you know, I keep, you know, little traps, you know, base stations and things that I check around the house, and we do get some mice coming in.

Uh I deal with them.

I can see what direction sometimes they're coming in from the from that away.

But that's something that also needs to be considered in developing that.

That if you're putting a bunch of people on a small space that doesn't have room to deal with some of the issues like that, uh, that that really isn't a good plan, and that I would oppose that kind of thing.

So both for the structure itself being that tall, kind of overshadowing the neighborhood and ruining the care ruining the character of the neighborhood, and also some of the other issues associated with have already been mentioned, all the people, the traffic and things like that.

That uh, you know, it's been a really nice neighborhood.

It sort of characterizes a pleasant place to be in Norman.

We've enjoyed it for our time there, and uh, we'd hate to have that spoiled and by this level of encroachment.

Okay, seeing no further comment, is there any final comment from council members?

Council Member Grant.

Council Member.

Yes.

Um, those students have left, but I want to address the issue with ice, and maybe the transcript in the daily can carry this message onwards so people can know.

Um, back when we had our discussions about flock cameras, Jeff Deputy Chief Jackson read a time again that the MPD is not working with ICE.

Um, I do know that a resolution has been discussed, but currently uh if you want traction with people getting arrested and turned over to ICE, that is going to be with your county sheriff.

So Cleveland County Sheriff is um Sheriff Amison.

The way it works for Norman is that uh we've had conversations in the community between MPD and immigrants about what they're looking to enforce, and it is not immigration status.

Um PD only cares about what crimes are not the legal immigration status of victims or perpetrators.

However, if somebody is arrested for committing a crime, then they go to Cleveland County Detention Center and the sheriff is working with ICE.

Um, we don't get a lot of say in how our uh dealings with the Cleveland County Detention Center go.

Basically, the city pays to house inmates there, and it's not a very uh it's not a contract that you can negotiate a lot, as what I'm told by municipal court.

So I just want to put that out there.

Um then to speak to the mental health portion uh brought up by one of my constituents tonight.

I will say I'm optimistic, but it isn't over the line yet, that uh the second van that we have allocated funds and purchased and have been wanting to do on our mental health crisis response.

Um we see a pathway forward that we have not had in at least the last four years I've been on council, where we could see three mental health care workers um potentially hired, and they may work under the city manager's department, um, and they would operate that van and attend people who are in mental health crisis.

Um so I just want to put that out there.

Like I said, we're still working on it.

Um, but we you know have not forgotten uh what happened when all the residents came out and said we want a real response for mental health that is unarmed.

So want to put that out there as well.

And then to item four, the Chautauqua rezoning.

Um I mentioned earlier at the start of this meeting that we I'm open, I think Councilmember Blodgett and Councilmember Peacock and potentially Mayor Holman and whoever else you might want to speak to, but I would like to have a meeting with uh the neighbors impacted, and I've spoken to a constituent in Ward 4 already today about this.

Um apologies if you have not gotten an email from me.

I have been very, very busy, and I think my colleagues also for various reasons have been have their own issues, and so if you haven't heard from us, it's not that we're not taking in the feedback.

Um, we're just catching up to the work.

So if we aren't able to get a neighborhood meeting within the next couple weeks, I could foresee us postponing and having some discussions.

Um I'll say the developer in my experience, um, and I got very lucky because I was walking into the situation.

Was working with another or wasn't working with another Ward 4 neighborhood, met resistance, and about the time I was coming in to council, everybody was at a point where they were willing to talk and say what could go into the lot that is going to be a restaurant.

And it was they didn't want to strip mall, but that developer wasn't gonna build a park.

So I think with some work between the neighbors and the developer, we might end up at a project that people can support.

So that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, seeing no further comments.

Everybody have a happy and safe Thanksgiving and do all your shopping on Friday locally here in Norman and Saturday and every day.

All right, this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.