Okay.

Good evening and welcome to the City Council, Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, and Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority meeting of December 9th, 2025.

Madam Clerk, will you call the roll?

Councilmember Gandisbury.

Here.

Councilmember Peacock.

Councilmember Bruce.

Here.

Councilmember Grant.

Here.

Councilmember Nofire.

Here.

Councilmember Hinkle.

Councilmember Pollinger.

Here.

Councilmember Dixon.

Here.

Mayor Holman.

Here.

And I will ask Scout Troop 233 to help lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

Item number one, a resolution of the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, recognizing and honoring Patty Drennan for her outstanding contributions to music education, choral composition, and the cultural life of the Norman community.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the resolution.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the resolution.

Council members, you may cast your vote.

Canada and numerous professional conventions.

Whereas Ms.

Drennan's lifelong dedication to music culminated in 2024 with the creation of Requiem of Light, an original choral album composed in just seven weeks and performed by the internationally acclaimed Clarion Choir under the direction of Stephen Fox with chorus master and co-producer Emily Drennan Lopez.

And whereas this extraordinary work, deeply personal to Miss Drennan and her family, and honoring the memory of her late husband James Drennan has earned a prestigious Grammy nomination for Best Choral Performance, representing an achievement of national and international significance.

And whereas the impact of Requiem of Light and Miss Drinen's lifetime of artistic and educational compliment accomplishments bring great honor to Norman, celebrating a legacy of creativity, resilience, and profound contribution to the world of choral music.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, that the City Council on behalf of the City of Norman does hereby extend sincere commendation and heartfelt appreciation to Patty Drennan for her exceptional achievements, her dedication to music and education, and her remarkable contributions to the cultural and artistic life of our community, past and adopted this ninth day of December.

Thank you.

I truly appreciate this honor.

It's been a true privilege and a joy to have so many students that have passed through my choirs all through these years, not only just in school but through churches.

But she and I have uh she was also a Norman High graduate, was in my choir, and uh helped make some of this great music that uh uh we're being honored for.

And so I'm very, very thankful, very thankful.

Probably one of you or several of you might have been in my choirs or parents of some of those.

Um so it's been a true joy.

I uh I say that proudly because anywhere I go for workshops or whatever, I always mention that I'm a proud member of the Norman Public School system, and living here in Norman has been uh delightful, even though I we are house divided.

So thank you so very much.

Richard.

Thank you.

All right, item number two, a resolution of the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, awarding the 2025 City of Norman Human Rights Award in conjunction with the Norman Human Rights Commission to Brea Clark.

I entertain a motion to adopt or reject the resolution.

Motion.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the resolution.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the resolution passes unanimously.

And I will recognize Aisha Ali, Human Rights Commission Chair.

Good evening, Honorable Mayor Holman, Council members, fellow Norman citizens.

For those who don't know me, my name is Aisha, and I'm the chair for the Human Rights Commission for our city.

Before I begin going over the Human Rights Award winners, I wanted to take a moment and thank our current mayor and our council members.

The past few months have been amazing for our commission.

Not only for our commission, but our city as a whole, the impact we've had with just a few months has been great.

Um I've seen a lot of people and the responses just with a few things, and we're looking forward for a lot of things planning forward for 2026.

And thank you.

It's been very deeply appreciated.

I also want to remind us everyone here tonight, anyone who's watching and hopefully playing later on on replay, that one of the topics the commissioners and I have been discussing as a whole is how can we continue to strengthen our city, especially moving forward with 2026, um, continue the city's energy, um, strengthening and you know, building unity as we move into 2026.

And recently I read a quote by the poet Rumi: Beautiful days do not come to you.

You must walk towards them.

And as we end this year and move into an election cycle, I must remind my fellow citizens that remember to strengthen our city's spirit by choosing walking towards beautiful and positive days, collaboratively and beautifully, together.

I hope to be here at every council meeting to remind us to be positive in spirit and words and actions.

Tonight I am honored to present this individual winner to the 2025 City of Norman Human Rights Award to Brea Clark.

I have known this beautiful soul since we were both pregnant with our youngest sons, and we met each other at this I don't know what it was.

It was this random meeting that Ciano had us come to, and it was it was amazing, and it was our first time we met, and it's just been an amazing um ride for both of us.

I am going to briefly read what the nominees wrote.

It's been greatly shortened, so bear with me, guys.

It's an amazing nomination.

The members of the Norman Alumni Chapter of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity at our monthly meeting held July 12th, 2025, voted unanimously to nominate former mayor Brea Clark for this prestigious Norman Human Rights Award.

We believe Brea Clark has been at the forefront of these efforts and many more that qualify her for this award.

It was under her leadership that the Human Rights Commission's Inclusive Community Subcommittee was established.

Her support for all things inclusivity up to and including putting building an inclusive community on all City of Norman correspondence, which continues today, speaks to her core and heartfelt devotion for human rights.

Norman became the first city in Oklahoma to sponsor a Juneteenth Festival, which has become a community institution.

Norman hired its first diversity equity inclusion officer and Norman Institute its minority alliance organizations.

Some of her achievements we have mentioned a few previously, but it should be added that in her role as director of the JCPenney leadership program at the University of Oklahoma, she has maintained extremely high levels of diverse participants in innovative leadership.

The many innovations of Bria Clark in her time as a city council member and mayor, and previously as the president of the Norman Public Schools Parent Teacher Association, there are too many to mention and or repeat, but we would be remiss if we did not mention how much that leadership carried over to the state level, where she was an innovator and quote unquote envelope pusher in county metropolitan area and statewide organizations, and remains so today.

For mission impact on Norman for at least 12 years in school district wide council and mayorial positions, Ms.

Clark continues to, in large ways and small, move the pendulum of diversity, equity, and inclusion in Norman and Oklahoma, forward, not left, nor right, forward.

Service, service to Norman, describe the support system and or services provided, including in timelines, reoccurrence project, she has done this and above all sustainable projects to the community.

Brea Clark gave great service to the cause of human rights in Norman and her contributions live on in institutions that she initiated and supported in the City of Norman, quote unquote, building an inclusive community.

Whereas the City of Norman entrusts the Norman Human Rights Commission with the duties of studying problems of discrimination, advising city council on human rights issues, and coordinating citizen involvement in the promotion of human rights.

And whereas the Norman Human Rights Commission seeks to promote and encourage fair treatment and mutual understanding among all citizens and to combat all prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination that prevent individuals from reaching their full potential as human beings.

And whereas after receiving nominations from the Norman community, the Norman Human Rights Commission selects a group to receive the Norman Human Rights Award based on exceptional achievement, outstanding effort, and or leadership to promote human rights and equality and to serve as an example to all.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, that the City of Norman, Oklahoma, in conjunction with the Norman Human Rights Commission does hereby award the 2025 City of Norman Human Rights Award to former Mayor Brea Clark, passed and adopted this ninth day of December, 2025.

Okay.

First of all, I would like to thank the Human Rights Commission for this amazing recognition.

We did a lot of good things when I was on council for those six years, all of us and the team with the city.

But the work we did in human rights is probably what I am most proud of.

And I want to thank the gentleman of Kappa Alpha Psi for the nomination.

I didn't know who nominated me, and I just said hi earlier, and look, it was here.

And I also want to thank my family for supporting me in the most important work of all, which is the work of protecting human rights.

So I want to tell you a little story about the first stand I took for human rights here in this chamber.

It was September 2016, and I was still a new naive little baby council member, and I was sitting right there.

And I remember walking out and seeing a chamber filled with red t-shirts.

And if you haven't experienced that yet, you know that means something is happening in the Norman City Hall.

And this was because we were attempting to recognize October as LGBTQ history month.

The hall was packed, my heart was beating so loud, I could hear it in my ears, and the faces of the crowd were filled with anxiety, but also hope.

And the anxiety came from the fact that six years previously, when we had this proclamation before us, it wasn't a good look for Norman.

And that's putting it mildly.

And we all hoped for a different outcome this time.

And I was so nervous because not only was it a big deal for Norman, it was because Mayor Miller had reached out to me earlier and said that she had heard that a council member was going to make a motion to once again open up this proclamation to public comment.

So this brand new baby council member worked really hard and made some comments, and one of my favorite lines from my comments was we will not cloak hate speech in free speech.

And when that proclamation passed with no public comment, unanimously, the look on their faces changed from my anxiety and hope to sheer joy.

It was beautiful.

People were crying.

It was then that I realized that we can make a difference sitting there.

And it wasn't the first stand I was going to take for human rights, because I was sitting there when we debated changing the name of Dabar Avenue, which you may now know as Dean's Row Avenue.

I was also sitting there when we recognized Indigenous People's Day for the first time.

And I remember calling out Oklahoma City, telling them to catch up.

And I was sitting there when we received the recommendations from the beloved community subcommittee, and also when we as a community proclaimed that we acknowledged our former status as a sundown town.

And we apologize for it.

And we promised to do better.

And that proclamation hangs today in Greenwood Rising in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

We are the only city to have done that.

And I promise you, we were not the only sundown town in the state of Oklahoma.

But that's what we do here.

We're the funky college town that leads in so many ways, but most certainly in protecting and celebrating human rights.

And it's not just a few people, it's certainly not just myself that care.

So under my leadership, we took our municipal equality index score from a meager 41 to a perfect 100.

I believe this was our fifth year maintaining that perfect score, and we are one out of 132 cities in the nation to have that.

And one of the qualifications that we had to meet to get there was our cooperation with the Norman Police Department.

So Lieutenant Michael Robertson helped make that possible by agreeing to be our liaison.

Several staff members are liaison to the executive.

It also would not have been possible without our amazing residents who go out of their way to make sure we're doing the right thing sitting at that dais.

And I want to do a special thank you to Don and Kay Holiday for their work on a comprehensive non-discrimination ordinance that provides protections for our LGBTQ residents in employment, housing, and public accommodations, the first city in Oklahoma to do so.

And then post-George Floyd, when the nation was having a very personal reckoning with addressing racism, our own city manager saw that our residents needed a position focused on recognizing, celebrating, and supporting the diversity, equity, and inclusion within our city staff and in our community.

And he set aside plans for a much needed assistant city manager to make that happen.

So I stand before you tonight, not as a former mayor, but as a resident of Norman to remind you of our community's history that is filled with achievements that celebrate, respect and protect diversity, equity, and inclusion.

You know, diversity, equity, inclusion.

It wasn't that long ago that those were words to be proud of, not scared of.

That they were something to celebrate and not silence.

And today there are people who won't say those words because they're scared of losing their jobs.

Because they're scared of being targeted.

So I stand before you tonight, reminding that my personal mission was to build an inclusive community.

But truth be told, that's not actually our city motto.

While it was a personal mission for me, our actual city motto is working together to deliver exceptional service, which is an excellent motto for staff, even for council in some ways.

But when in our great nation, diversity is now being targeted instead of celebrated, when equity is the last goal on people's minds and inclusion is happening less and less.

This council needs something stronger.

I'm not here today to ask these residents to stand up to their elected officials.

I'm asking for you, as our elected officials, to stand up for your residents.

Your words matter, and your community needs you declare that we matter, all of us, regardless of what we look like, where we were born, who we love, whether we have a roof over our heads or how much money we have, we matter.

So work with your human rights commission to create a mission statement for council where there is zero question about where our elected officials stand on diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Honor those that came before you and sat on that dais and stood up for human rights and prepare those that come after for the expectation that when you sit at the dais, you stand up for human rights.

So when that next brand new baby council member isn't sure if he or she should take that stand because openly valuing diversity, equity, and inclusion isn't something our nation seems to care about anymore.

They can refer to the council's mission and know that here in Norman, Oklahoma, that's just what we do.

Treating our residents with dignity and respect isn't an exceptional act.

It's an expected one.

So as luck would have it, tomorrow is human rights day.

And around the world, and later tonight, you're declaring December to be human rights month in Norman.

So I challenge you to create a mission statement for council that acknowledges that human rights matter every day in Norman, Oklahoma.

Because while words matter, so do your actions.

So thank you very much.

Thank you for your service.

I know full well how challenging this job can be.

And tonight I want to thank again the Human Rights Commission and the gentlemen of Kappa Alpha Psi for this incredible honor.

Thank you so much.

Right.

Item number three, a resolution of the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma awarding the 2025 City of Norman Human Rights Group Award in conjunction with the Norman Human Rights Commission to Women in Action for All.

I entertain a motion to adopt or reject the resolution.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the resolution.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Our votes have been cast.

The resolution passes unanimously.

I'll recognize Aisha Lee, Human Rights Commission Chair once again.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Mayor Holman.

Sorry.

Our 2025 Human Rights Award group winner is Women in Action for All.

I can't say that acronym without sounding weird, so I'm just going to say it every time.

Our nominee writes, the mission of Women in Action for All is as follows.

Working together to voice our concerns and develop strategies to address critical issues facing our community and state.

The group was formed at the end of 2016 as and has an email list of 600 people.

Here are our five examples that support the goals of Women in Action for All, working on unhoused in Norman, education, environment, get out the vote, and immigration.

When a particular local need is recognized and brought to the steering committee, Women in Action for All tries to find a way to help.

As a group, Women in Action in All has donated to the Crop Walk, Red Direct, Red Direct, Red Dirt Collective.

It was a little typo here, Mutual Aid Fair, NPR, Women's Resource Center, Food and Shelter for Friends, stamps and postages for campaigns for issues and candidates, state petition drives, Norman caravans, and other areas.

Recognizing how the political divides were affecting our members in the past spring, we offered a short series of T and Sympathies meetings leading to various professionals who would help and offer friendship and hope to distressed women.

Coping skills improved for the attendees as well as a sense of friendship.

In the past, we have scheduled events which supported social networking amongst our members.

When we work together and support each other, each individual life thrives.

In giving and working, we become our best selves, and we cherish the feeling of community that it brings as a result.

As outlined in Women in Action for All's goals, the members have been active throughout the community.

The leadership of the group has been exceptional.

The group the group meets monthly and regularly as special speakers who inform and inspire the members.

Women in Action for All is dedicated to furthering all citizens of Norman on issues and bettering the community.

Their efforts to protect the human rights of the least and the last of us make them a deserving group to receive the human rights award this year.

I think Rhonda Stock will be accepting the award.

Whereas the City of Norman entrusts the Norman Human Rights Commission with the duties of studying problems of discrimination, advising City Council on human rights issues, and coordinating citizen involvement in the promotion of human rights.

And whereas the Norman Human Rights Commission seeks to promote and encourage fair treatment and mutual understanding among all citizens and to combat prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination that prevent individuals from reaching their full potential as human beings.

Whereas after receiving nominations from the Norman community, the Norman Human Rights Committee selects a group to receive the Norman Human Rights Award based on exceptional achievement, outstanding effort, and or leadership to promote human rights and equality and to serve as an example to all.

Now, therefore it be resolved by the City of the Council, excuse me, of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, that the City of Norman, Oklahoma, in conjunction with the Norman Human Rights Commission does hereby award the 2025 City of Norman Human Rights Award to Women in Action for All, passed and adopted this ninth day of December, 2025.

Thank you so much, Mayor Holman and the entire city council.

We are grateful for the recognition with this award.

On behalf of the women in action for all, we are so appreciate being recognized with the Human Rights Award.

We became a group in 2016.

We became involved in the community and the state, and we have grown to nearly 700.

I think it grew since the letter was written.

Our goal is to address community needs and the rights of women and the marginalized, to educate ourselves on important issues, and plan actions to move Norman and Oklahoma forward.

We understand if we want to see positive change, it's not about finding a hero.

It is about getting many people involved.

That is when the problems begin to get addressed.

And so we work to build relationships between people and groups and to support each other in taking positive steps for our environment, for unhoused and immigrant friends, our children in schools, legislative action, voting rights, and staying educated about the issues that affect our community, state, and nation.

We are humbled and very grateful for this community.

We love Norman and this recognition of the work that we do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Item number four, a proclamation of the mayor of the city of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the month of December 2025 as universal human rights month in the City of Norman.

I entertain a motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast.

Acknowledge receipt passes unanimously.

I once again recognize Aisha Ali, Human Rights Commission Chair.

And she's out in the call her up.

She's coming.

She doesn't need to speak.

I didn't leave there because I didn't know.

All right, will Dr.

Michelle Morales join me up here at the podium?

Okay, a proclamation of the mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the month of December 2025 as universal human rights month in the City of Norman.

Whereas each December, communities across the nation and around the world observe Universal Human Rights Month, a time dedicated to promoting dignity, equality, and the rights inherent to every individual.

And whereas Human Rights Day, observed annually on December 10th, commemorates the historic adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the United Nations General Assembly on December 10th, 1948, an enduring symbol of global commitment to justice and human dignity.

And whereas the City of Norman Human Rights Commission, as established under Norman City Code, promotes education and awareness of the rights protected in the city's civil rights ordinance, receives and seeks resolution of written discrimination complaints, and works collaborative collaboratively with residents and city government to continue to build Norman as an inclusive community.

And whereas this month and this day remind us of our shared responsibility to uphold human rights and foster respect for all people.

Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim the month of October, 2025 as universal human rights month, and encourage all residents of Norman to reflect on the importance of human rights and to support efforts that advance equality, justice, and compassion for all.

Passed and approved this ninth day of December, 2025.

Bryce if you wanted somebody else.

Thank you, Mayor Holman.

Um, dear friends, family, and fellow residents of Norman, uh, members of City Council.

Uh, it is a true honor and a heartening moment to accept this proclamation of human rights month from Mayor Holman as a result of the important and relentless work done by City Council through its human rights commission.

This moment represents so much of what living in Norman means to me.

A place that values and seeks to protect human rights and individual freedoms when nowhere else will.

A place that recognizes that human rights violations might be happening just around a corner in our neighborhoods, in our country, and not only in faraway places.

As I have told my students semester after semester, the cornerstone of human rights is to be found in the very first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which reads all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

Those very basic principles mean that you, me, our neighbors, those who we agree with or disagree with, those who are born in this country or not, are all equal and should enjoy the same human rights.

The Universal Declaration then goes on to specify additional human rights.

Article 2 states that everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in the Declaration without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth, or other status.

Article 9 determines that no one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention, or exile.

Should we decorate our houses?

And I told her we celebrate human rights by being aware of the violations that might be happening around us, by standing up for victims, by speaking up when we see anyone's rights in danger.

Even though human rights are individual rights, their defense is a collective duty.

So I'm hopeful that the celebration of human rights month here in Norman will be a reminder to all of us of our collective duty to promote and protect human rights in Norman and beyond.

Thank you.

Okay, next up is Council announcements, and we'll start with Ward 1.

All right, first foremost.

Hello to everybody in Ward 1.

Also hello to everybody here tonight that came out.

We was kind of getting excited thinking the whole city showed up to wish us a happy holiday or something, but I guess we'll find out here in a little bit why we're all here and everything like that also.

But I guess we'll find out here in a little bit why we're all here and everything like that.

Also, I have some thank yous though, mostly that I want to be able to give out before the end of the year.

One, thanks very much to Great Choir concert put on by our Norman High Choir team and everything like that.

That the Norman North very much appreciate all kids looked like they was having a great time this year.

A big shout.

Shout out as always to Ashley Creed and her group with Red Dirt Collective.

Another great mutual aid fair was held this last Saturday.

All the coats that had been donated and picked up were given out.

They had like 200, 250 coats all together.

And I'm wanting to say her final total was like four, four hundred and fifty people that was able to come through there and get all kinds of free services, food, all kinds of stuff for the holidays.

A lot of toys were there, bikes were given away, things like that.

So it's definitely good, especially in Ward 1's neighborhood.

Thank you for all the city staff and individuals to help with making sure we had a successful parade this year, tree lighting ceremony.

Everything went off without a hitch, weather cooperative for the most part.

Happy holidays to everybody.

Definitely shout out to all the scouts that are here.

It's always awesome to see the scouts show up and everything and help us with the pledge and how important it is to all of us.

Also, I want to give a shout out to an unconventional one, but give a shout out to the college football selection committee.

I want to say that we appreciate that our seniors, I know you're going to have the best graduation ever.

Considering that we'll have Alabama to be able to whoop up on for before the graduation.

Definitely as a city that goes on sales tax, we appreciate it.

But also remember, as Norman citizens, we're going to have a lot of people from out of town this week.

And show that normal way, show that caring spirit to everybody.

Show them that this is a place that they want to do business with.

Thank you.

Ward two.

Thank you.

I just wanted to commend everyone that put their name in the hat to uh run for city council on the next series of elections.

Filing was last Wednesday or last Monday through Wednesday, and I know there's a handful of people that are vying for the job, a handful of people are up here running for re-election.

I myself chose not to run re-election, uh spend more time with my family, focus on my business and things like that.

So just wanted to commend everybody else that is putting their name in the ring because it takes a lot of courage, a lot of guts just to uh run the race and wish everybody the best of luck and all the success.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward three.

Good evening, Ward Three.

Um we have another um listen and learn uh this Friday night, six o'clock to eight o'clock.

That's at the Pink Piggy there on Main Street, uh, West Main.

Looking forward to uh having some discussion, some talk, and just saying hello.

So come on out, pink pig, looking forward to it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward four.

Yes, good evening, ward four, city of Norman, and everybody who is watching or here with us tonight.

I want to extend a congratulations again to all those recognized and honored with resolutions and a proclamation.

It's a banner night for cultural contributions and human rights.

Next, I'd like to thank city staff for Winterfest and all the organizations that helped make that, including Sooner Theater, the Depot, Firehouse Art Center.

I'd like to thank OU Carceral Studies Constantorium for inviting Mayor Holman and myself to speak on homelessness and housing insecurity.

Uh it was a great community uh community conversation, and that's in mind the real costs that come with homelessness and that it touches many types of people.

There were folks in the room that night that once they understood the definition could include couch surfing, saw themselves also in those statistics.

Thursday at Oversight, which will be December 11th, 4 p.m., we will talk about shelter updates, short-term rentals, right to council, which we talked about diversity, equity, and inclusion earlier.

And I would like to say right to council helps uh tenants under the law uh be treated equally when facing eviction.

And then we're gonna talk about the homeless coalition that is forming a Norman.

Um I want to remind everybody we have a second Friday art walk this week.

Um Saturday, December 14th, or I'm sorry, Sunday, December 14th from 2 to 4 p.m.

Opolis will be doing a toy drive during their Christmas karaoke uh brunch.

And then on Saturday, December 13th at 1 p.m., Food Not Bombs is doing a community meal hosted by the Norman Computers at 916 West Maine.

And I would be remiss since we don't meet again for a full council meeting on the 23rd, which is the week of Christmas, that we have the Norman Christmas dinner, which is held at Norman High School Commons Cafeteria, 911 West Main Street, and it will be held Christmas Day from 11 to 2 p.m.

Santa will distribute toys and gifts to adults and kids alike.

If you are unable to attend in person, please contact 405-364-3273 by December 21st to make delivery arrangements for your meal.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward 5.

Good evening, Norman and Citizens of Ward 5 specifically.

I'll start off by also giving a shout out to the Scout troop that's here.

I understand that national level politics are what make the news, but what we do up here has much more of an impact on your day-to-day life.

It's great that you're coming out here and learning.

Past that, I hope everybody had a great Thanksgiving, ate all the calories, and then uh wish you the exact same for uh the happy holidays coming up.

And I would like to uh get something out of the way.

Everybody's been asking me why I haven't been or why I didn't throw my name in the hat to uh run for re-election.

And it's specifically because my employer changed their policies on me about 10 weeks ago.

And I'm not going to go into the details, but I fought tooth and nail to get them to let me finish out this term.

They wanted me to resign immediately.

And I was successful in that, and so that is why I did not file to run.

Thank you.

Uh thank you.

Good evening, everybody.

Uh I want to reiterate and say thank you to all of the volunteers and city staff that made uh the holiday parade and winterfest so amazing.

Uh I got to have a kind of a float.

It was just my car with a big inflatable on the back of it, but it worked.

Uh and it was really great to see so many people out there.

I easily saw like six or seven families having fun.

Um so that was that was really good.

I know a lot of people ran out of candy, so if you didn't get any candy, um I'm sure we can get you some.

So uh something that I always like to do is to thank people who take time to serve on our boards and commissions, and we have Danny Hale, who is a Ward 6 resident who is being appointed tonight to the Norman Regional Hospital Authority.

Uh so I want to say thank you to Danny for his service.

And then something that uh is really important to me that I want to make sure that we mention because it's on the consent docket tonight is item number 25.

Um, and this is a resolution approving the creation of the Norman Parking and Transit Authority.

Uh creating a trust for this is going to really bring a lot of opportunity for Norman.

Um this has been something that's been worked on as a concept by bunches of volunteers, several iterations of city staff, uh who knows how many city council people over the last decade plus.

So the fact that we get to have this on our agenda tonight and vote for it, uh I think is really important.

Um I really cannot wait to see what it does for the density and a lot of the things that we talk about we need in Norman so we don't sprawl out into the country and uh create walkable areas for downtown and and multifamily houses and uh lots of front doors for the areas that we need to be developing more things in.

Um and really just something a new tool to help support our city's growing ecosystem that isn't a new tax.

Uh it'll protect our general fund, and it's not something that we have to create a tax increment financing district uh to be able to accomplish.

So really important work on this.

I think that uh through the Economic Development Advisory Board Um as well as City Center TIFF, uh which was a long time ago.

I think we're 12, 13 years into that.

Um this is something that will tie all of that together, and it's I'm really proud of Norman for for bringing that on.

Uh and then my last announcement, I don't want to steal anybody's thunder, but since this is the last meeting in December that we will have, I believe that this is Brenda Clark or Brenda Hall's uh last meeting with us.

And so I want to say oh, and Anthony too, yes, uh and Anthony too.

So uh their institutional knowledge for all of us is uh there's just no comparison, so we will miss you very much, both of you.

And um, I'd say I'd love to be able to call you if we have any problems, but I don't think you want that.

So thank you guys very much.

Thank you.

Ward seven.

Um hello, Ward 7 and all of Norman.

Um I just had a couple quick things.

Um, first I wanted to also thank the scouts.

Um it makes my teacher heart warm seeing children here.

Um and also um I wanted to say a big thank you to the Human Rights Commission and everything they've done.

Um, and big thanks to former mayor Brea Clark for making me cry up here.

But um but um I I just really appreciate everything that they're doing for Norman and beyond.

And uh I also wanted to uh send a big shout out to everyone um responsible for the Christmas parade or holiday parade.

Um it was amazing.

And if anyone is wondering where all the candy went, it's at my house because my three kids came home with huge bags full.

So I I can meet you after and we can meet somewhere and I sneak it to you because I want it out of my house.

But um, but that was it.

Thank you.

Ward eight.

Uh thank you, City Norman Ward Eight, everybody watching at home.

Uh we've got the City Norman ugly sweater 5K and one mile fun run this Saturday at Legacy Park.

Um my mom and my mother-in-law uh retired public school teachers through the 90s, so I have plenty of extra ugly sweaters for Christmas if anybody needs to borrow some.

Um sorry, mom and Liz.

Um I'd also like to wish everybody a happy Kanza, happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas.

Any other holidays you're about to celebrate over the new year, uh end of the year.

And I also wanted to bring up uh just uh a thank you to Anthony and Brenda.

Um Anthony, if you'll please leave the combination of that safe in your office.

Um I think I think we'd appreciate that.

And Mama Brenda, thank you for everything you've done for all of us that sit up here for um the newbie um you know, council members uh just showing us the way.

Um over the years I've seen you have to kind of you know really be Mama Brenda and kind of get everybody uh acting right.

Uh but just you two are gonna be hugely missed.

Um the city you've the service you've given given to the city of Norman's been immense.

Um so just thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Mayor, just uh a quick note to our uh external auditor, that safe comment in Mr.

Frank, that was a joke, just so you know it's not really a thing.

Just wanted to clarify that for thank you.

Thank you.

Um I also would like to uh just welcome the scout troop for being here.

I appreciate it and would encourage you to stay for at least another 30 minutes or an hour if you can, because I I think we've got some items on the agenda that are uh reflective of the type of business we typically do here at City Hall.

Um and I think it'll be real informative for you to see how it plays out.

So thank you for being here.

And then also wanted to echo Councilmore Grant's comments about Art Walk this Friday.

Um we always talk about how there's so much to do with Norman.

There really is.

Um can't fit it all in the schedule, and I'm often wishing that I had less to do.

Um there's so many wonderful events and organizations in Norman and Art Walk in downtown Norman this Friday night is one of the best ones, and it doesn't cost anything to go and walk up and down and check out what's going on.

So I definitely encourage you all to do that too.

Um also uh let's see that and uh also want to thank the staff and everybody who uh worked on the winter fest and parade this past weekend.

Uh some folks have asked why it's not called the Christmas parade, and my response has been that it has evolved into more than just the parade.

Now there's a whole block of Jones uh by the depot closed off.

We've got a stage set up with bands playing and food trucks, and um there was a reindeer, a real reindeer there uh that was set up.

So there's a whole lot more, and there was a drone show, so there's a whole lot more going on now than just the parade.

So uh want to encourage everybody to bring it next year, bring your families.

It was really packed out this Saturday night.

Um and I had a really wonderful time getting the opportunity to press the button to turn the tree on.

So again, thank everybody who was involved in getting that uh put on this year and look forward to next year.

Um and then I did also want uh to echo the comments about local elections uh coming up in February over the next two months.

Candidates in wards two, four, five, or two, three four, five, six, and not eight, because councilmer Dixon is running on a post.

Everybody in ward eight thinks Councilman Dixon is doing a great job.

So uh or nobody wants to sit in that seat.

Um but they're very important.

Those candidates will be coming to your doors and sending mailers to your mailboxes and looking for opportunities to talk to you about why you should vote for them.

And so I encourage you all to really pay close attention, ask good questions, think about the things that you see on a daily basis in Norman that you wonder about why it's not getting fixed or why something was done that way, and be sure to ask those candidates what their opinions on those things are.

So and then above all, make sure that you and your family and your friends and anybody you know that is a Norman resident, takes the five minutes that it really takes to go vote in February in a local election.

There's usually there's never a line, basically, and so it really is an in and out situation.

You can do absentee, you can do vote vote early.

Um so there really is no excuse.

I want to see everybody get out and cast those votes and these wards coming up.

So it's very important.

And then wanted to remind everybody that next Wednesday on the 17th, we'll have the community planning and transportation committee meeting, normally on the fourth Thursday of the month.

But because of Christmas, we moved it up a week at 4 p.m.

here at City Hall.

It's also live streamed on YouTube, and you can go back and re-watch it if you can't make it to the live stream.

Uh but we'll be getting our monthly update on the transit ridership report, and we'll be getting some updates on uh some road construction and other transit or infrastructure-related projects that are going on around the city.

So if you're interested in transportation and street construction and those types of things, then tune in to the CPTC next Wednesday on the 17th at 4 p.m.

And if you have any questions about those items, please feel free to email your contact your council member or me directly, and we'll make sure those get asked in the meeting.

And then also wanted to uh mention the um the opportunity uh for our community next Friday.

It's gonna be very chaotic with graduation weekend and a home playoff game against Alabama.

Um I did talk to the mayor of Tuscaloosa, and he said that they weren't feeling very confident in the situation, so we'll see.

Um but it will be chaotic.

I think it'll be a lot of fun.

I would encourage us all to embrace it.

Um it's it's not ever happened before.

We've never hosted.

I don't know if there's ever been a game played in December in Norman.

Uh so um I think it's exciting, it's an opportunity.

I hope that our local businesses uh really benefit from this unexpected home game, and of course, hoping that the um at OU is able to win and go on to the Rose Bowl and then all the way to the national championship and win it all.

So I just again encourage everybody to embrace it and have a really good time and and let's see what happens.

Also, um, I think this Friday, and I guess the part I got signed up to every Friday at 8 a.m.

You can tune in to our local sports talk radio station, K Ref, and uh hear me at 8 a.m.

with the Plank Show, Chris Plank Show, and we'll be talking about Norman economics and sports.

So 8 a.m.

to 8 15 a.m.

every Friday morning.

So we'll see if I work at the bar on Thursday night if I'm able to get around to that in the morning.

And then um also just wanted to uh wish a happy holidays to everyone in Norman.

Um there's so many different traditions that are celebrated in Norman as a diverse community that we are, and um just want to encourage everybody to think about the things we have, uh be thankful for what we do have and the people that are in our lives and the good that's out there.

Um there'll be plenty of time all year to think about all the bad stuff.

So and then when you're doing your shopping, I just really want to strongly encourage you all to consider supporting locally owned small businesses.

Um it might be a little bit cheaper to go to the Walmart, and I understand that everybody's budget is tight at the moment, you need to save money wherever you can.

But locally owned businesses need our support, and um that little extra two or three dollars that you spent at a locally owned business compared to a corporate chain could be what helps keep that local business in business.

And uh those dollars tend to stay here longer when they're circulated through a local business like that, and so it would mean a lot to them, and it would mean a lot to us if you would support locally owned small businesses over the next few weeks and really all year round as well.

Um, as I mentioned before, and many of us have.

Oklahoma is the only state in the entire country where cities operate on sales tax revenue only.

In all other 49 states, cities operate on property tax and sales tax.

We only operate on sales tax, so we need everything you buy to be in the city limits of Norman, and we need everybody that doesn't live in Norman to also buy everything in Norman.

So and then lastly, I do just uh also want to recognize Brenda and Anthony.

Um my entire 13 years on council.

Um they've been invaluable resources as staff people and just as as great people, as great human beings.

Um but I have often thought about what would we do.

I've gone to conferences with other elected officials from smaller towns that do not have the support staff that we have as a council.

They don't have a clerk and an attorney and a and directors of different departments, they might have one person that does everything, and and there's a lot of ways that we could get in trouble through the open meetings act and different things like that if we don't have a uh clerk and staff that really know what they're doing, and there's a lot of ways that we can get tru in trouble financially too, if we don't have people in the finance department that are experienced and know what they're doing, and um over 50 years of uh date you guys, but over 50 years of combined experience just in the city of Norman alone, um, and that is is is not replaceable.

I know I'm very confident in Jamie and uh Kim, I think, who maybe whoever the next finance director might be, but but uh you can't replace that type of experience and decades of of institutional knowledge about the city of Norman and those things.

So I am just so thankful that we've had you both here to help us uh navigate this, and it's really been an invaluable resource.

And I'm I really wish you both the best in retirement.

You've really earned it uh uh as much as anybody I've ever known in my life.

So thank you very much, Anthony and Ring.

Okay.

Consent docket.

This item is placed on the agenda so that the city council by unanimous consent can designate those routine agenda items that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion.

If any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order.

Staff recommends that item five through twenty-eight be placed on the consent docket.

I'll entertain a motion to place items five through twenty-eight on the consent docket.

Motion, second.

The motion on the floor is to place items five through twenty-eight on the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

I'll vote all and the motion to place items five through twenty-eight on the consent docket passes unanimously.

All right, I'll enter entertain a motion to approve uh wait okay.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Okay, are there any comments from council regarding any item on the consent docket?

Councilmember Grant.

Yes, I would just like to highlight item 11 is authorizing a contract to FSB on a shelter concept design.

And as I said last Saturday at the Ward 4 quarterly meeting, we will be talking with first courthouse, original town site, and morning side edition neighborhoods to discuss whatever this concept becomes, get feedback, work on it, and come back again.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, the motion further comments from council.

The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

The consent docket passes unanimously.

All right, on to the non-consent docket.

Item number 29.

Ordinance upon second and final reading, rezoning property generally located north of Etawa Road on 72nd Avenue Southeast to grant special use for a public utility in A2 rural agricultural district for a strip piece or parcel of land.

There is currently a motion on the floor to adopt ordinance 0-2425-15 on second reading section by section from council's meeting of February 25th, 2025, moved by Councilmember Hinkle and seconded by Councilmember Grant.

The ordinance comes before council this evening for further consideration.

Are there any questions from council regarding this item?

Okay.

If you do the presentations or we can.

We can wait, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Um, well, they've we already did the presentation before.

Is there a new one?

I guess uh not necessarily, but we have public signed up to speak.

Do is there anything from OEC or is there any?

I don't believe so.

Do you all have an additional presentation?

My name is Joe Crodell, and I represent Western Farmers.

Patrick Grace with OEC was going to do a presentation.

If you guys would like, if you have a decision that you've reached amongst yourselves, we can just uh since it's been almost a year, we've got new counsel.

If you guys might uh you know go over what this proposal is or if anything's changed since February.

Absolutely.

And then we'll ask any questions from council after that.

Yeah, okay.

Absolutely.

Um Western Farmers, just to start, I'll give a brief overview and then turn it over to Patrick.

You'll have a lot more information.

But just to start, Western Farmers is or has acquired property just north of Etawa Road off 72nd to build an electric substation.

Um this substation will serve OEC customers, and so that's why OEC is here to provide more detail and pertinent information about that.

Um so just as a background, but I'll turn it over to Mr.

Grace here.

Well, thank you, Council.

There uh was a presentation.

Is that cued up?

We'd like to do it.

Okay, great.

Um while we get that set up, let me uh also echo the congratulations.

Um for those that don't know, Bob Busser is on the OEC board, he recommended rec um represents his part of the OEC members and his wife Ellen has sat in that seat.

It's kind of weird not seeing her there.

And so, Brent, I don't know you very well, but I feel like I do because Ellen thinks the world of you.

And she loves retirement, as she can tell me and speaks very highly of it.

So congratulations.

So uh there's about 40 slides you're gonna have to get in.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, here are my slides here.

Well, uh, thank you everybody for um uh hearing this again.

Uh for those that saw it, this is a little bit different, but I'll be trying to be very brief because um I'll try to just get to hit to the high points here.

I know there's a lot of questions, and I know there's there's public comments, so I want to get that knocked out here.

So uh the gist of this whole deal is that in basically eastern and southern Cleveland County, we are running out of capacity as OEC.

For those that don't know, Oklahoma Electric Cooperative, we are the other power company in Norman.

Um we serve probably 25% of uh Norman compared to OG that serves most of it.

Uh we started in the rural areas, whatever whatever's rural back in the 1930s was OEC, and then as um cities have moved out, then we kind of become um intertwined, and so uh we're here because uh we've had growth in this this area over decades and decades that has uh eaten up our capacity.

So um Mayor Holman, I appreciate you uh allowing the the Boy Scouts or the scouts to stay because uh maybe it won't be as bloody as uh as is there's been some conversations in here, so I appreciate that.

So um and uh you know what is the scout motto, which is be prepared.

And so that's that's really what this is about.

If you look on this map, um there's two boxes in the bottom, um right and left.

Uh the one on my right are the far east is Little Axe substation, the one on the left is noble substation, and there's a green line that connects them.

Uh both those substations were built in the 1950s, um and they have um served us well, and we upgrade them over time, but as uh certainly the city has changed and annexed out and um through that um we've just run out of capacity now as um we have grown and grown and grown.

So uh I think it's great.

I'm I'm a I'm a Norman guy.

I um I didn't have uh Patty Drennan in in class because I was an engineer, so I had no musical ability.

Uh my son's in theater, he can sing, so uh he did and he does community theater, so uh we might I'm learning all about that now.

But I was at West when she was there and graduated Norman High back when there's only one high school.

Um so uh it's great to see Norman uh what it's done.

I love Norman and I and you know everything that's happening out there, especially in East Norman and and South Class and uh but with that uh comes electric electricity demand and um and then you fast forward to the last few years when we've seen some extreme winners, um Winterstorm Uri, uh which was kind of a once-in-a-lifetime event.

We had rolling blackouts um for the first time I've ever seen.

Uh we didn't have it as bad as Texas, but uh we had some, and that's um and thought that maybe that's a uh once-in-a-lifetime deal, but we've since had a couple winners just like that.

Um not not quite as bad, but enough that we now plan for it.

And so when you see on there, our demand has increased faster in the winter than the summer because you've seen those extreme winter weather events.

So they've all been maxed out capacity, and so now we need a new substation somewhere, and that substation uh location there in the stars about halfway in between the little axe and noble uh to serve both north and south.

Um but uh with with the growth, but uh about so about half of it will be in Norman and half of it will be uh just sort of south there.

Um so uh you know, briefly what what is power do?

We we um probably don't need to go too much into this about both fire um OEC and OEC fiber.

Uh we serve uh critical services, and especially in the rural areas where electricity is the main form of both uh power and water.

Um having power outages, especially in the dead of winter, uh is a big deal.

So uh something that we we take um seriously and something that this substation uh will alleviate on that.

So I know there's there was conversation last time.

I know um there there may be there's comments about uh storm water, and uh just to be clear on what we're asking today is the zoning to allow the substation to be built.

We are not asking for exemption from any uh the city or uh permits ordinances or any DEQ uh standards, so it will all be built an engineer site, so it'll be built to uh the city permits for stormwater and also to DEQ standards.

And um I think Western farmers can speak to this if if need to.

Um, and there may be other um permits that have to happen for substations in and above that.

Um so uh this this graph right here just kind of shows all the substations how they're maxed out.

And um this was almost six months or nine months ago when this happened, and we went through a hot summer, uh or actually about a normal summer, and uh and and we we pegged all these and so we're now a little bit worse than um than that.

And it's just we're running out of capacity and need a substation.

And the the the site that the uh the substations at is that transmission line that was also built in the 1950s.

Um it had at the corner of a transmission line and a section line where our our power lines are already at, is where it really needs to be uh to maximize the kind of the long-term economics of it.

Um OEC is not for profit, we are owned by our members, kind of like a credit union, if if people are familiar with that.

And so any extra cost just means added rates.

Any lower costs that we get means lower rates, and I'm very sensitive to um trying to keep rates low as possible.

I consider that one of my main jobs at OEC, and uh try to keep the the lights on, reliability is first, but then affordability is after that.

So um, you know, I guess in closing, and I'll open up to um questions.

I know you'll you'll have a lot and you'll have other comments.

Just uh I think OEC is headquartered in Norman.

I'm really proud to be in Norman.

Uh love Norman.

Um really feel like it's a place that we can recruit great talent to.

Um we also serve other counties, but being in Norman is is fantastic.

And so having a relationship with the city and being a good city partner is what we're all about.

And hopefully, if you've heard of OEC, it's been positive, and hopefully that there's some trust built up that if we um we do things, try to do things well, we try to do things in an excellent way, uh, something that represents both us and our members and the city of Norman.

So um ready ready to go.

So thank you.

Okay.

Questions from council?

It looks like we have council member Grant.

Uh defer to Brandon or Councilmember Nofire if you wants to go for it.

The buttons not working or what?

Oh, I just okay, cool.

Yeah, Councilman No Fire.

Yeah.

All right, so one of the main questions my constituents have been asking me, and I just want to get it out in the open is this for a data center in any foreseeable future?

Okay, thank you for the question.

There no data centers at all.

All right.

It is it is not.

Um I can elaborate on data centers and the challenge it has to the grid.

Um, as you might imagine, we're already strained as it is.

OEC is 92% residential, and so taking on data centers is not something we're in a really good position.

We mainly say no to data centers because uh both substation capacity and generation capacity is a problem.

So um so no, it is not.

Okay, thank you.

Uh my next question would be this was very specific.

How tall are the how tall is this substation specifically going to be?

Okay, so the um the transmission lines that are already there are probably how many 40 foot poles?

Ums.

So the transmission lines already there is way taller than anything the substation is gonna be.

The highest thing it'll be is about about 20 feet.

If you if you can think about substations, um, you know, the the one we had pictures of uh the one out on 36 and um Robinson, and it's uh the highest thing you have there is probably about 20 or 20 or 30 feet, but nothing taller than um uh anything that's uh that's that's already there.

And this can't became a big topic last time.

Is that the you know our request came after the substation that's out on um West, where's that West Franklin and 48th?

Uh it's a massive 40-acre substation.

It has the same name substation, but they they couldn't be more different.

Ours is a a standard basically, we're a rural operator typically, and so ours is much more of a a smaller football.

You know, you see hundreds of these across the state in agriculture areas.

That one is a big transmission line switching station with those huge poles that go that they'll go across, nothing like that.

So that's that middle image was is something that is tough to get out of people's heads last time, but it is much smaller and much much more of what you see around town.

Okay.

So you mentioned that it was roughly 75 decibels, which is about a standard dishwasher, correct?

Uh what kind of noise abatements will you do for anybody around it?

Uh we haven't ever had any problem with noise, even the noise, even when you see um the subs the substation of the West Normand, we call it West Norm Substation, that one and 36 and Robinson.

Um it has houses that back up right to it within probably 30 or 40 feet from houses.

Certainly there's there's swim pools that come up right to the back of the of the fence.

Haven't had any problem with uh noise there.

Now with this site, I know um you know you and I have talked uh a lot, and I know that uh you're really concerned both about that and about the the aesthetics of it.

And so uh putting a solid fence is something that that it will plan on doing, and some landscaping around there to help um visually and help a little bit of noise doesn't help quite as much uh with noise, but uh they're once the once the they're in operation, they're very, very quiet from um you know, and it's right there along the road, so compared to the road noise, it's it's a fraction of that.

Okay.

Uh a big concern that a lot of my constituents have actually reached out about is whenever we've talked about it, it's not a solid pad, it's a lot of gravel and things of that nature.

So, how do you keep weeds out of that, such as pesticides or because this is in the watershed?

Uh so uh I know we have uh gravel and it's you typically permeable, and I don't and I know they have maintenance that comes out there uh once a month.

And so um I don't know if you all would want to uh talk about how you you know um Mark or Travis, yeah.

We do herbicide application as well.

Would you like to uh if you'd come up to the podium, please down the process.

I'm I'm Mark Sage with Western Farmers.

Uh I'm the manager of transmission and distribution services.

Uh I'm over the crew that will maintain these locations and our power or power lines and the easements in the power lines.

We do have herbicide applications.

Uh we contract that out.

We maintain the vegetation around, we mow the sites, all the location where the grassy areas are, uh, our transmission line easements as well.

We do vegetation management on those to keep the the trees from growing up into them.

Probably similar to what OEC does.

Understood.

Yeah, I was that was just a big concern since that is directly in the watershed and this lake's not too far away at that point.

Yes.

I will speak to that.

The you know, whatever herbicides we do, and we do use herbicides on the the power lines for when we spray as well.

Uh all that is um up to DEQ code and everything is is permitted.

There's um everything's approved uh through and I don't know if I'm saying necessarily right, DEQ.

Um so um all approved for what we're doing.

EPA approved.

EPS.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, Brand.

Uh another thing that's been brought up is you're going to put in a retention pond to my understanding, is that correct?

Or uh there uh I I'll let Travis talk about the the drainage.

I think the drainage um it's designed to flow into the the drain right there.

I know I know it's a big big topic, so um is the um another engineer here.

Travis got your manager of transmission distribution engineering at Western Farmers.

There's no retention pond.

Okay.

There's a um maybe what we're thinking about, there's an oil water separator that if there was a catastrophic leak of the transform, this device separates the oil and water so the oil doesn't make the site.

Uh drainage, so you know, per standards, Oklahoma law.

I mean, any water that flows on the property, we can't change the direction of the water flows.

I mean any pro any water that hits the property is going to go where it used to go originally.

Okay.

The only concern I have with that, and just so we all know is there is a house located about a hundred feet north of where this is going.

And I want assurances that it is not going to affect their property at all as far as drainage.

Because they have provided me with several pictures of whenever it rains out there, it it's that's a pretty solid spot for the rain to flood into.

It will not affect the neighbor.

All right.

The fun questions.

Okay.

Uh so originally you said that there were five sites that you were considering.

Why is this site the winner?

Uh I know that once again I may have Travis to keep come up to talk about that.

Um combination of factors go into it.

Like I said, the the two main things are underneath the transmission line, you know, the uh to to come off the transmission line, it's that's a big endeavor, and it actually takes up a lot of land to build it either north or south.

So uh trying to find a site along that transmission line is really the the um best for everyone, I think the best long-term um needs of the mini-type deal.

And then from that you try to match it up to find a section line where uh we have major lines running north and south, and so that fit right in there.

There was a couple sites to the uh I think east and west um that uh didn't match up quite well with the existing uh power and also the the site issues.

So they uh went into a lot of stuff.

I don't know, Travis, if you want to um talk more about that.

Yeah, so this site would have the the least amount of impact as far as new infrastructure.

The other sites we looked at would required either a new transmission line to be built, uh access roads, um OEC would have built quite a bit more distribution line.

So, like like Patrick said, this is where the distribution and transmission cross that that was the ideal location.

Okay, and then my last question, unless I think of some later, is uh this is a hundred-acre plot, roughly.

And why are you picking right next to this gentleman's house whenever you have a hundred other acres?

I mean, I understand that they're there that's where the power lines cross, but the transmission lines are also all along that northern boundary.

Right.

So um the the substation is the spot where the big transmission line meets our distribution.

So the dirt the relationship between Western farmers and OEC, you know, I uh talked a lot about that last time.

Uh Western farmers owns the substations and they provide service to us.

We they're a cooperative, they're owned by the by 20 co-ops like us throughout the state.

And so that's where they they come in there.

So uh if wherever you put that that substation, uh you now have four smaller but still um like the lines you see running down the down at typical any street.

We call them distribution lines.

Um you'll have four of those coming out.

We typically have four features coming out of the substation.

So wherever they have, that has to get uh to like I said, to where all the power needs to go, north and south.

And so uh if you put it back, um, you know, you've put it in the middle of 160 acres, then you have to build line across um all that the pasture with the north-south.

Um if you go to if you think about the the map, the map here to show, um, or else I'd I'd show it.

We do have a substation that is that's offset that that runs uh that you run north and south, and it's just two overhead lines that go, and it really just ties up more of the property.

So putting it at the corner of the property or at right there on where the um the top the northeast corner of that quarter section is really where it minimizes the least amount of um disturbance to the property and also to uh what has to be built to get the power out of there and where it needs to go.

Okay.

I'm good for now.

Okay.

Council Grant?

Yes.

Um thank you, Mr.

Grace, for being here.

Uh when last we heard this item, we were waiting for a district court decision, and that has been made.

Um will you let us know how that has worked out post uh that decision?

Are all parties happy?

Um the I'll turn it over to the attorney to talk the the attorney stuff.

The my understanding, I'll put it in layman's terms and he can he can correct me, um, was that uh there was a appeal of the condemnation to for the for this to have to acquire this site, it went through combination, which we don't like to do ever, um but in this case this was uh necessary.

And uh there was appeal over whether that combination was happened legally and uh the appeal uh the district court, right?

Um determined that it was it did happen illegally, and then so after that we we have uh reached a uh an agreement with the landowner um afterwards to uh to settle the dispute of the the price and the combination, and then that's all that'll happen in within the last week.

And so Joey, anything you want to add, or Patrick did a pretty good job.

You might want to sit for the bar exam.

Um but yeah, there were two there's two pieces in every condemnation case.

It's whether the authority that's seeking to take the land can take it, and whether uh they're offering just compensation for that land.

And so there were disputes as to both.

Um, and we were here last the main dispute that you guys were concerned with was whether Western farmers had the ability to take that land, and the district court did rule that Western farmers could take the land through eminent domain, and since that um that interim order has been entered, 30 days has passed, and so there's no um appeal rights even further than that.

And so, and as Mr.

Grace said, um the landowners and western farmers were able to reach a monetary settlement as to the price piece, so everything is square between as far as I'm aware, everything is square between uh the horses and western farmers.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks.

Okay.

Any other council questions?

We'll have another round, but okay.

Um thank you.

Okay, this is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on this item.

Remarks should be directed to council only.

And limited to four minutes.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers registered for this item?

Uh yes, Mary, we'll start with Trey Kirby.

Kirby Ward 5.

Um I just want to start off with saying that, like they were saying, this is in a watershed.

Uh it is a co-op, so they are the neighbors.

I mean, and you don't never treat your neighbors by extorting them or stealing from them.

As he said, they came to a settlement after the eminent domain.

Um, I mean, how many did the guy spend a hundred thousand dollars to get to the point he just didn't feel like fighting anymore before he finally settled?

It wasn't because he wanted to, he had other options.

Norman has the opportunity to have agriculture uh tourism.

We have opportunities to have a lot of stuff, and when you power line out the country where people would do agri-tourism and other kind of stuff, then it kind of runs the purpose of the beauty of Norman.

Also, where electric is super important, so is beef, and so is water, and that property, as you're hearing, is on a watershed that feeds into our water, and just because the EPA or the DEQ says it's okay, don't make it right.

They never did state what they were going to be spraying.

Are they gonna spray bare uh like Roundup because Roundups under multiple lawsuits that it's called cancer, but yet it's approved to be used by the DEQ and the EPA, so there's a ton of other herbicides that they could use.

I mean, if we're gonna approve it, then we need to at least set a standard on the water because Thunderbird supplies 80% of our water, and we produce three times the energy in this state than we use.

So if we're gonna put a substation there, and they've already made the agreement through, as far as I'm concerned, extortion and abuse of the eminent domain.

Uh, at least let's make sure the poisons they're spraying aren't gonna leave forever chemicals in our water and our animals and a hazard to our future of our children.

Also, they speak of being fair to their community, but in certain areas, if you're trying to do a housing community and they don't like the type of housing community you're doing, they charge you a second rate uh charge.

You don't get the residential charge, you get a commercial charger, you get an industrial charge.

So you have tenants who are trying to rent a house on low income, and they're trying to charge them more for their power than what they charge other residents.

So if they're gonna come in and put in a substation, they need to treat all residents equal and charge everybody the number one and not the number two, three, four, five uh way of rating people.

And I'd like to know out on 156 just before Ediwall, they just expanded a power station, a substation that's similar to this one.

How many years before they expand this one and make it as big as that one?

That'll be all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um next we have Gary King.

Yes, Gary King, um 72nd Avenue 5300.

I'm right next door to this contraption they're trying to build.

Um, we were shut down in the first meeting, we weren't able to speak at all on this subject, which I think would maybe had uh bearings on this whole outcome that has now been processed through.

And um, you know, being right next door to this, this has been going on for two years.

It's it's really I can see what how the turnpike people feel they're in the path of this, they're worried and they don't know where this thing's gonna be.

I can I can truly now say I can feel what they're feeling.

And I doubt any of these guys have been out there to see when it rains, how much water comes through that property.

And I don't they're not gonna be able to control that.

Um it's like you said, when are we gonna stand up?

This is in a f uh protected watershed of Norman, and I've heard from members about when they were talking about the turnpike coming through, the protecting of these watersheds.

When are we gonna stand up against these people from placing a electrical substation in a watershed that's active and is a hundred and less than a hundred and fifty feet from my house, and I have to listen to I moved out there to enjoy the country in the agriculture setting, not an industrial setting.

Now they're wanting to place industrial out there right next to my property, and so now before you make too much of a hateful decision.

I think maybe you should go out and sit by one of these substations, like on 156th, especially at night.

You can't sit there and listen to that.

And we sit out in our front yard in the evenings, and this is where they're placing it.

I I built my home 400 feet off the road for a reason to get away from the road noise.

Their substation is 400 by 300.

They brought it right back, even with my house.

They're placing a substation right in the path of this water, so it's it's not gonna, it's it's gonna go either on me or it's gonna flood them out pretty bad.

And so now I'm thinking, so am I gonna have to just stay in my home and not be able to enjoy it outside out there now.

And for us to not be able to speak in the last, not the last meeting, it was it was the previous administration who did not allow us to speak.

My neighbor had written a letter, and we were allowed what three minutes back then or four.

We weren't even allowed to, she wasn't even allowed to read her letter.

And I think that was really unfair at that meeting, and I think that was in August or July.

Um not really sure what when that was, but um the next speaker is Rita Y.

Yeah, do you think why Miss Rita Jones?

I live directly north of Mr.

King at 5250 72nd Avenue, Southeast.

Ten years ago, my husband and I, he's now deceased, bought our five-acre property and our home for the quiet and the beauty of the land.

It represented the quality of life that we wanted for the rest of our lives, and I'm opposed to anything that disturbs that reality.

We bought it in good faith.

Mr.

King has lived there forever, as you can see.

I don't understand why someone can come in and disturb everything and take that away.

I don't want to sit on my patio and see poles and wires and hear noise of construction or operation.

And this structure also will greatly devalue my property.

There is no way we would have bought it had that structure been there, and nobody else will either.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Michaela King.

Hi, Michaela King at 5300 Southeast 70 second.

My dad's property and my childhood home.

I just kind of want to say it from my perspective how I feel about it.

Um thank you for allowing me to talk today.

I just want to stand here not only as a concerns concerned citizen, but as a devoted daughter and a member of a family that has called our property home for decades.

Today I urge you to reconsider the proposed substation that is planned to be built next to my childhood home.

A home that my parents have built from the ground up with their own hands, their own sacrifices, and their unwavering dedication to provide a stable and loving environment for their three children.

My father has worked tirelessly to construct our home, pouring a sweat, time, and hard-earned money into making it a place of comfort and security for our family.

My parents' investment was not just financial, it was emotional, personal, and generational.

Their home represents their life's work, their dreams, and their future.

Now, as they approach retirement, much of their financial security is tied to the equity they have built in this home.

The placement of a substation next to our property threatens to min diminish the equity, stripping them of resources they have diligently saved for their golden years.

Beyond the financial impact, the presence of a substation so close to a residential home brings concerns that cannot be ignored.

Studies have shown that substations can negatively affect property values, aesthetic appeal, and even sense of safety and well-being.

No family should have to endure the worry of watching their most valuable asset deteriorate because of a decision that disregards the personal and financial hardships it may cause.

It is a place where children play, where families gather, and when home homeowners take pride in their properties.

A substation in such close proximity disrupts that harmony and sends a message that well-being of longtime residents is secondary to infrastructural expansion.

I understand that development is necessary, but it should never come at the cost of the families who have spent decades contributing to the community.

I respectfully ask that the council to explore alternative locations for the substation.

Locations that do not impose undue hardship on homeowners who have already invested their lives into their properties.

There must be a solution that balances city's growth with the respect considerations that families like mine deserve.

Please do not allow my parents' decades of hard work and sacrifice to be diminished by a project that can and should be placed elsewhere.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you.

Cynthia Cynthia Rogers.

I think Eagle Cliff.

Potts Farm, where things pass our regulations, but you get more events and more displacement more often, and people get flooded out.

And I wish we could do something about a regulations to address that.

So I think we need to be very careful about activity in our water sensitive areas.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Richard Lavart.

Mr.

Cromer was wanting to speak.

Would you mind if he went ahead of me?

JD Cromwell.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I missed him.

He skipped, he signed up on the wrong item, but it's not Roy Orbison's son.

No, sorry, I had eye surgery.

I look like Rory Orson, but I'm JD Cromer.

I'm here for the Stan Ward family who has the land across the land from Mr.

King.

I talked to Mr.

King about this, and I saw his problem.

But there's other problems, you guys, you gotta understand.

I drove a dozer for 57 years, and the water impact over Mr.

Ward's filled a great big gigantic pond overnight.

We put a six-foot ten horn and it almost washed it out.

I've been through Mr.

Ward's property and also I don't know if y'all know this, but the City of Norman has got Mr.

Ward granted the city of Norman a wildcare vegetation area for a wildlife to be let loose there.

And if the water gets over there, I think that contamination, it's kind of funny.

My dad worked for OGE for 33 years, and I got a little bit of knowledge of electricity and my relatives have been in the business in California, Texas, and everywhere else, but I'm just saying I think it's a bad idea because it's gonna wash your plan out and wash it across the road because heavy rains, the water will go across the road.

So all the gravel and all their little neat stuff over is gonna be in the middle of the highway, roadway, excuse me, 72nd, and they're gonna have to figure that out.

Uh you can't divert water a 40 acres or runoff into this area.

You'll flood Mr.

King or flood whatever around him.

Um I guess my final words to say is uh I like to ask all of y'all thousand you like to have this next to your house, raise your hands, and I like to see what you all think about having this thing built by your house, the city council people.

Can you do that for me?

Okay, maybe I say maybe the people in the audience, how would you like to have it built next to your house and see how you would feel of the what you grew to build to stay for the rest of your life?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

LeBron by the Kings, and uh there are a number, uh there are 25 different signatories representing a whole bunch of different households that that I'm also speaking for.

I can't yield all over time for you.

I can give you additional time to have this minutes.

Okay.

All right.

Very good.

May I ask uh Ms.

Hall would would you raise your hand or someone let me know when I'm down to my last minute?

I do.

It's set at seven.

Yeah, beg pardon.

Oh, okay.

Okay, now don't start my time just yet.

Uh Councilman Dixon, you omitted the Seinfeld holiday of uh festivists.

Okay.

Okay.

Are you ready?

So uh you know about anything.

Okay.

Okay.

I also brought uh handouts uh that just had a few things that I had neglected to include.

Um I'd like to begin this way.

Uh okay, I'm I'm a lawyer and my main practice is in Oklahoma City, but I've the last several years.

Uh I worked with Stan Ward the last three years of his life and and got to know a heck of a lot of folks down here.

My partner actually keeps an office on the Gray Street just a block down in the midtown building.

Um one of the things I worked on was our fight against the Turnpike Authority, and uh it was uh illuminating and also rather frustrating.

Uh when one litigates against big companies or the government, it can be quite a challenge that seems like they often have a virtual unlimited uh reservoir of attorneys and experts and so forth, and so I'm here as the one riot one ranger for the one riot.

Mr.

Grace did a nice job, but he did misspeak in uh at least one or maybe two respects.

He he said that all the nearby existing substations were built back in the 50s.

Actually, the West Etawa station was built in the 70s, and I know that because Mr.

King's uncle built it.

Um another thing is uh there were some possible representations as to the height of this thing.

Um in their own materials or the staff report back from uh Planning Commission, which was a year and a little less than a month uh 13 months ago, uh confirmed that this thing's gonna be 50 feet tall.

So for folks that live in close proximity, a 50-foot structure is like a four or even a five-story building.

It doesn't blend in with the countryside.

You can't eliminate that site by building a berm or planting some vegetation.

Is that you know a lot of times it's easy to look at protestants and just think, well, that they're just NIMBY people, and we got to do this deal regardless.

Well, maybe not.

There is no more profound change in zoning than going from A2, rural agriculture, to I2, heavy industrial, which is what we would have here if you all decide to approve the special use permit.

So I'd like to disabuse you all of that thinking, hopefully.

And the other thing I I really would like to mention is this the uh horse trust property, as I think JD noted, is a hundred acres.

And the question arose well, you know, why did they have to propose to plant it right adjacent to the king's home?

That's a hundred feet, and that that's the staff's own materials in the Planning Commission agenda or report that they worked up last November.

Um hundred seven feet.

Oh, you've got a kicker that can kick in twice that distance.

That's awful close.

And also the notion that this uh the decibels are going to be 58 or 70, whatever the representation was, I would question.

I mean, I I've been by power stations and and many times in my life, and I I can always hear a humming or buzzing sound.

So imagine having that going on 24-7.

Mr.

King didn't want to say so.

I'll say it for him.

Uh he he has medical condition that uh makes him especially susceptible.

There's really no agreement among experts as to whether or to what extent electromagnetic pulse can potentially be carcinogenic or cause serious health problems.

It's an open question.

Anyone that purports to have the answer that it does not is uh I I question the sincerity of such a comment.

It it's it's uh it's certainly a concern, and especially for folks living as close to this as the kings.

Um Mr.

Cromer mentioned something about uh the the wild care uh across the road, and some of the pictures that we showed you, I think make it quite plain that there is uh an extreme degree of fall if you look at the topo map.

The fall comes from the south and west directly on uh to this site and to my clients uh the the king's property, and I one of the photos that I showed is uh depicts uh a massive amount of water from a recent rainfall uh going through the tin horn, apparently, and flooding the ward property.

Now that's without a catch basin or a detention pond that that would pool uh uh surface runoff.

Also, I I'm not clear as to the specs.

You know, I Mr.

Grace was good enough to give us his uh statements concerning the the uh the need for this and any reference, I think he said that their capacity is in danger of uh being running out.

Um we would have liked, as a matter of transparency, to see some raw data so that we can know exactly just what kind of a shape they're in, how close they are to capacity and so forth.

Um I would submit if you look at an aerial, you you can see as power companies often do, they have these uh they they like to go in a mid-section line typically because that's the least intrusive.

So when they build their power lines, here's this east-west line coming uh that this is 72nd Street.

I'm sorry I didn't include a copy of this, I just got it tonight.

But my point is simply that this could be extended if it's not already extended, and this thing could have been positioned way to the west at the back of the horse land.

Now the horses might have been made happy with a private settlement, which is well and good for them, but it doesn't address the concerns of all these other nearby uh landowners.

Ward 5's unique.

I mean, people build their dream homes and move out there because the country life is very appealing to them.

You know, they want to be Norman citizens, and they are, but they also move there for a reason.

And so the notion that we should approve putting a heavy industrial power plant four or five stories tall in this area is we just don't think that's sound decision making.

Also, umger G, I'll just say G, I can't pronounce her last name, but she's the lady that runs wildcare, and it's a nationally renowned uh uh nonprofit that cares for wildlife and and and takes in wildlife that have been injured or dumped or in distress, and they place them on these uh properties.

And the wards uh gave uh uh 80 acres uh for use rights to the wildcare uh group, and that as I said, that's directly across the 72nd from this uh location.

So I know I'm getting down to the last 30 seconds of my time.

I just encourage you all to really take a serious look at this.

This this I think is a horrible precedent.

I think it should have been incumbent.

Now nothing's happened since last really, except for uh the fact that they settled with the horses.

But in November, November 14th of last year, the planning commission voted thumbs down unanimously.

It was a seven zero question.

Council member no fire.

All right, I have a question for someone from the power company if you would like to come up.

Uh once again, starting off with a rural softball.

All right, he mentioned the substation at 156.

Is that one yours?

Is that the last that is the little X substation?

I believe that.

Okay.

Uh so he said it was recently expanded.

How big did you expand the footprint of that when you did, roughly?

I mean, I'm I'm not looking for super exact decimal points.

Like where did you start and then how big was it when you were done-ish?

I don't know the exact number, but yeah.

Uh, but the the technically we did purchase more property there, but what the what the intention there is to we got rid of the older substation and replace it with a new substation.

That that's and in doing that, we put a larger transform there for more capacity for OEC.

Um just ballparking.

It was maybe 50 feet.

We expanded it.

Okay.

I'm looking at a map of it up here.

Thank you.

And then so how big will the substation be that you're actually putting in?

Will it be the comparable to the one on 156th?

Um I think the uh you're telling like property-wise or actually like chain link fence.

Let's go with both answers if you could.

Um there again, I don't know exactly how big we have it at uh little X, but um Max will probably be a little bit larger because we went 400 by 300.

Um typically we go 300 by 300, but we want to we wanted to shift it away from road in case you guys ever wanted to expand the road.

Um this chain link fence size will be about the same.

Okay.

So out of that 400 by 300, how much will the actual uh substation itself take up?

Because I assume you have like right-aways and everything in there.

Um the chain link fence is about 120 by 80 feet, give or take.

Okay, so that's the actual substation 120 by 80?

Yes.

Okay.

There's a you know, there's an access road to get in there and uh you might be the one to answer this, but how close are the subs how close to substations are houses in the actual city, like the one in Northwest Norman?

Do you have a uh there Patrick said earlier like 30, 40 feet away.

They're very close.

I would point out too that those substations when they originally built, they were built in a field.

There was nothing around them.

The city of Norman built to them.

Understood.

And then lastly for now, so the uh Mr.

Webbarth over there brought up an interesting point of putting it at the back and using the exact same right-away essentially as the current transmission lines.

Can someone address why you can't just do that?

There again, that'd be more impact to the landowner.

We'd have to build a longer access road.

Oh, we see we'd have to build more distribution lines.

There'd actually be more infrastructure involved with that.

So would that require the purchase or imminent domaining of a lot more land at that point then?

Yes.

Okay.

Like just from what I I've actually asked that question.

I just wanted that to him personally.

I just wanted that out in the open.

And is it am I correct in that you would essentially have to uh have a strip the entire length of that?

That's almost double what it is.

Yes.

Yes.

We'd have a like I said, access road distribution lines, so yes.

Okay.

Uh that's all the questions I have at the moment.

Thank you.

Councilmember Grant?

Yes.

Uh I was hearing a lot of concerns around water.

Um and I was digging into the packet that comes with this item.

Um I to understand that it's not gonna change the historic rate of flow.

Correct.

We're we're we're not allowed to change the flow, the the way the water flows.

The the way the water flows now would be the way it flows when we're done.

So the existing issues are just gonna be the same.

Correct.

Okay.

We we may actually improve it because we're gonna have a gravel pad that should absorb and hold more water and release it slower over time.

Uh yes, I did see that in the site plan.

Uh all the different building materials for that.

Um so that's uh encouraging to know it could help to improve.

Thank you.

Okay.

Councilmember Bruce.

I think this is probably for Mr.

Gray.

Um I didn't see anything in the packet regarding like an analysis of alternatives as far as besides this one location, where were the other locations that were potentially evaluated?

Uh the like I said uh mainly done by Western farmers, uh, but we had some input in that.

Anywhere along that transmission line going east and west along the section line would have been highly considered.

Um but um landed on this one.

Um mainly the fact that when you look at the the power flows that go north and south um into uh where we need the relief, um the that and then where we have existing infrastructure, this is where it landed.

So your your primary limit to uh east and west along that line.

Uh the practically, yeah, to I mean I think you all saw what building transmission through Norman did um with uh that uh that substation out in in West Norman.

Um our poles aren't that tall, uh, but uh extremely difficult to go through um any any area um with transmission lines.

So siding it underneath the transmission line, you know, and half of this property or some portion of this property is already under an existing easements and um and so you know obviously it can't be used.

I would I would like to um to acknowledge what um the gentleman just spoke about on the on the hype.

Um he is correct.

I I I misspoke on that.

That's what I get for for trying to answer the question.

Um the uh most of the uh I I will stand by the statement that the tallest thing around is the transmission line, but there are if you look at that transmit uh substation, it has like a a kind of an uh N structure and that's 20 or 30 feet, but then there are um existing um kind of lightning rods that go up, ground rods that go up that the tape of the tip of them do go up to 50 feet.

So so I will I was I stand correct on that, and I apologize for um being incorrect.

How how much land do you own at that site?

I I heard 100 acres.

No, the our the it's 2.75 acres.

That um I know that that I think that's what the landowner owns there, and and in regards to water, you know the the that that it is a very small footprint of all that, and so if the if um so are the where the where it's projected now, the land that you own there, how much land do you own on that footprint?

Is it is it an acre or three acres or two 2.75 acres is what's a long memory.

It's along the line.

Is that along the 2.75 acres, yeah?

So 2.75 acres, but if I understood correctly, it's less than 150 feet from a house and I don't know, a hundred feet from the 150 feet from the road from 70 72nd.

Yeah, I think I don't know if we have a if we have a overhead picture of it.

I don't I don't think we do.

Um so you did an all uh uh I'm gonna call it an Alice of Alternatives along the east-west line there, and this was the best location that you could find.

Yes.

That was available.

Uh it wasn't available.

Um the um and we had to use condemnation, which um I um we rarely do and do not like to do it.

Only in rare cases do we feel like that it's a need that um that has to happen in that location that we we use that um because I I don't I don't necessarily disagree with anything that that the people said about that or the turnpike.

I mean it's it's um it's a necessary evil, but one we legally have um and try to use it in a responsible way.

Understand how why not further west uh on the two or two point whatever acres.

Yeah, so if you take the take the site and you you move it, move it west on the transmission line.

So it's still so it checks the box of the fact that it's under the transmission line.

Um but then if you take that, I don't know how what deep is two or three hundred feet, you you end up taking that whole swath out because now we have to have a road to get at we have to have build a road to get out two to seventy second, and then you'll have four big three-phase um power lines that go along with it.

So you have to have the road separation from um everything.

So you end up taking this big triangle swath of the the property, um which is you know, when we when we evaluate it, when we try to take the least amount that we can, especially um in a condemnation uh case um to do that because just practically that's um it just needs to get you know, basically in simplest form, it needs to get from the transmission line to the that road distribution line, and so being as close as possible is the best long-term solution.

How do you know the the water won't flow north and a little west onto neighbor's property?

How do you know that?

How how do you know that?

Uh it's an engineered site, and so um the that's a question for the civil engineers, not now I will say just north of the site is a um I don't how how long is the transmission line easement we have there?

Um hundred foot wide transmission line easement that goes north of there.

So uh whatever water is already running through there, like that's um I think the middle picture is that this is gonna go and like the water is gonna hit our site and go right into the the the neighbor's property and um if it goes around it it's still um it's still within that transmission line there.

So but once like I said the sit that's a job for the I'm an electrical engineer, so I don't I don't I don't deal with anything you can see or touch.

Um so that's um and that's and what's the we fought we'll follow the the permits for that and I believe the permits are that we are allowed to um handle the stormwater in the historic way to keep it the same way it was it is it possible to move the station farther west on the land you currently own?

Uh no, not with the land we currently own.

We only took the minimum amount that it was right there.

The the actual chain link fence area is as far west on the property as we can push it.

I don't have any further questions right now.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh mayor, can I have 60 seconds to rebook a couple of those?

Hold on just a minute.

And uh I got a few questions I want to make sure cover here.

And Mr.

Grace, if you'll just um if it was answered while I stepped out, if you'll just say that it was already answered.

But the question about what there was a little discussion about what's being sprayed as pest herbicide, and that it meets you know, DEQ, all that.

What is the question was what exactly is it?

Or what show chemical I would have to look that up or and is that a standard one that you use that is used by Western or by OEC on all your stuff?

Uh it's gonna be different than what we use, but but Mark may be able to answer that.

We hire contractors that are lace uh that are licensed to spray the application, much like I'm sure much of you get your yard sprayed every year uh for herbicide application, they're licensed applicators.

The herbicide is not any different than what's sprayed on your yard that's on the agriculture fields that are out there in the area, the hay fields, it's gonna be the same stuff.

It's licensed, it's it's authorized by the state of Oklahoma.

There's nothing any different.

Is there a name of it or is there a brand?

They will have a list of the different varieties.

I don't have that with me.

Okay.

But like I say that that location is we also mow it and maintain it.

It's not gonna be as good as your yards, but it is mowed and maintained and and looking nice as well around those areas.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then um, I think you guys did talk about the other substation at 156.

Okay, and then so what what specifically is being done to um mitigate the impact to the king property.

So what is in between here between the station and their chap you might talk about what um you know the trees and some other stuff, but yeah, yeah, the specific.

Uh and we've had this request before, you know, the like I said, the West Norman substation has a solid fence as well, right there next to Brookhaven.

And um and there's also some landscaping stuff to you might talk about there's an existing row of trees that's between us and and the the king property.

And that will that's we're not touching that yet.

Uh we can we can put up a like I said, a solid fence like Patrick was talking about.

That that should hold down the noise sum.

Um we could do landscaping, but keep in mind we have this has to be low growing because we don't want to get up in in the power lines.

Okay we can do some things that that don't grow up.

Um especially the the power lines are there, like I said, they're they're quite tall, and so there's there's some vegetation you can put there that can um provide visual relief.

Um we and and and we were happy to do that.

Okay.

And then uh the question about noise from uh the substation, um, your current substations, is that an issue that you hear feedback from residents regarding noise or lights or things like that for people who own property next one?

I I have not ever heard any noise complaints um around um the substations and I know you showed at our back in February you showed examples of the existing substations around Norman and and most of them are in residential subdivisions.

Yeah, well we yeah, and uh the the one in Brookhaven there is Brookhaven built around it, and so the substation fence backs up right in right to people's people's backyards.

Uh what we call the Lidell substation, which's out on I think Alameda in between 36 and 48th.

Um I'd have to look at a map, I may um I've already misspoke.

So uh that um that has substation built up, and we actually have to access that substation through the subdivision.

So we actually go into a cul-de-sac and kind of get in there.

Now what happens if that transformer goes out and um that we need to get heavy equipment back there?

That's um I don't know that that's that's been contemplated, but um but yeah, so it coexists with uh both agriculture and residences uh across our service territory across western surface territory uh without any issues that that I've heard.

I was just gonna point out a normal operations, there's no lights in the substation.

Um there will be a light, but that's only if we have to use it at night for outages.

So normally there won't be any lights on.

And the noise part, so what no is there like a buzzing?

What is what is happening out there where someone Mr.

King's sitting on his porch?

The main thing to hear would be um the fans on the transformer running.

Like I said, there's a there's electrical standards and even TR uh two, I think, um mandates that transformers have to stay under 75 decibels.

Okay.

And so those fans they run all just constant or are they shut off for a while?

They're automatic, so it when it winter time they don't run, but in the summertime they may run depending on how hot the transformer gets.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

And then um just to confirm for the record, this being a special use restricts it to this just this purpose.

So this isn't a blanket industrial use where if the substation's gone, somebody could put in a factory or something.

It restricts it to just this substation, nothing else could be put there without coming back through a whole process.

Okay.

Okay, that's the questions I had, and we got a few more council questions.

Councilor no fire.

All right.

Uh so just to make sure I have this in my head correctly.

The land you own is 300 by 400, and the 400 runs long ways east-west, correct?

That okay.

Yes, okay.

Just making sure.

And the fenced off the actual uh substation area is going to be 80 by 120, roughly, correct?

And it's on the uh furthest south of that or the furthest away from his house.

So it'd be 120 north-south, 80 east-west.

Um I don't know the exact dimensions.

Um it's kind of in the northwest corner of the property.

Um I don't know how far off each property line we are with it.

Um there is I think there's a drawing actually in the uh in the packet that shows kind of the layout.

Yeah, I'm just making sure it's as far away from his house if this does go through as you can actually put it on there.

Because it seems like you actually have a much larger plot of land versus the actual footprint of the substation.

Right.

I said so some of that was we we anticipate expanding the road in the future, and we didn't want to have to you'd have to pay us to move the substation, so it's it wouldn't be good for the city of Norman if we put the substation right next to the road, you wanted to expand the road, we'd have to move the substation.

And so as I said, just just making sure I got this in my head.

Which corner uh where on the uh your property is?

I I think I understand your question.

Also, the um since that's tie into the transmission line, um, so it's gonna be um rather close to the edge of that hundred feet of the the transmission line easement.

Um so it was um so we only got further as much south as we needed to, but it will be um because you'll have to have lines coming from that transmission line that's to the north.

And so it's gonna be right there, probably right in the middle as far as north-south of that property.

Not not as not farther south as it can, but as far west as it can, like I said, to get rid of the road.

So not necessarily um it's it's as further south as it can be um given that you have that transmission line there that um that has to sign it to.

Okay.

And then just hypothetical thought process here.

Say your uh engineers are wrong and the water flow starts messing up with Mr.

King's land.

Does he have any recourse for that?

Can he get you to come back out there and fix that?

Definitely be to our benefit to fix it too.

I mean sorry, what it'd definitely be our benefit to fix it too.

We we don't want runoff off our property.

I mean, we don't want the gravel leaving the property either.

So yes, we would fix it.

Okay, just making sure that assuming the worst there is reconciled.

Well, and uh also the and this is where I mean, you know, I don't know if that's certainly not legal thing, but um, but you know, we are had headquartered in Norman.

This is not gonna be the last time.

It's probably probably the last substation in a while.

Like I said, this went in the 1950s, 1970s, since we build a substation.

We do not anticipate, certainly in my career needing another substation um in Norman.

Um the uh but someone from OEC will be back talking to City Count Norman City Council at some point.

Um and so it's not like some of these other companies that come in that um are like next era that like they come and they leave I mean like the that they have um no accountability like we're we're here and this is uh our town.

So if if there's issues, whether that's um recourse through uh legal means or even just getting a uh board member involved, the board member ought to operate similar to what what you all operate and governing our actions.

Um we're gonna want to try to make things right, uh we see I and I know that's oh excuse me.

I know that's uh not something that's um you know legally action, but hopefully our past um actions that have you dealt with OEC or heard about OEC, we have a good reputation of of being good stewards and hopefully that if there's problems we'll take care of them.

I I think I think I I and I I know we'll try.

Are there any other questions besides me?

Council Member Grant?

Okay.

Um yes.

So uh it sounds like industrial use is not gonna be even a thing.

Um if you could give a quantity, like how many houses will be served, projected housing, uh, because I do think there may be some developments that were approved that will come online.

And then there is this supports commercial business too as well, if I'm not mistaken.

That is correct.

The um I typically a substation like that could st will serve about 2,000 houses.

Um maybe more depending on the size and how much commercial load the uh a lot of the south campus or the south class and development, the new target, all that stuff, uh that has um uh added to the strain or when you call it strain.

We're we're happy to serve it.

We want it we we want to provide power, we want to provide um um reliable power.

We I said I I love seeing that part of Norman grow.

Um, but that commercial load, and the more that happens, which I just think um will continue, especially that South Class is very um I think a great area, uh, then we serve all of that.

And so as that comes on and as those plates are approved and that commercial load comes along, that's um adding to the capacity needs of that area.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Councilmember Bruce on a follow-up back on that uh analysis of alternatives.

Uh I don't know if you call it that but there's some document out there you guys did more than likely.

I mean, any any business would come up with that analysis of alternatives and have alternatives and evaluate them and have assumptions associated with those.

Was that shared with the city?

Uh I don't know that we have anything official, Kim.

I don't know that you um Yeah, the uh it's more kind of an iterative process where they uh start looking at sites and we we talk about where we are and kind of look at it.

I don't know that that it's um that we have an official analysis of alternatives.

I mean Yeah.

Not uh not anything probably that you're talking about I I just bring that from another career field where we're spending money on projects and plans and stuff like that, and there's always an analysis of alternatives where you'd have your assumptions and stuff like that.

Yeah, I think more series of meetings, you know, when we we talk about areas and where we need it ultimately uh what ends up happening is that uh OEC does a formal request to Western farmers, and then there is a document there that says we would like a substation here.

Um but that's that's usually at the end of the process where we've really looked at uh uh alternatives, and I know that um uh our system engineer runs a lot of load flow studies that um those certainly have uh documentable outputs that that show that stuff, and if he was here, it's what I used to do, they don't let me do they don't let me do this the the engineering anymore.

Um but um you know so various things that go into that, but not a formal report.

No, that's all I have.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Grace.

Yeah.

Oh sorry.

Um Councilman No Fire.

So like I was telling the scouts earlier, what we do up here impacts your lives a lot more than you would ever believe anything at the state or especially the federal level.

What we have to decide tonight is weighing between damages to these people sitting in front of us versus actual needed infrastructure.

Nobody nobody doubts that this is actually going to uh be needed, that their need for electricity and electrical substation somewhere is not in doubt.

It's just is this the right location and is it is everything right about it?

And this is probably one of the hardest decisions I've ever made on council deciding one way or the other about that.

But given everything I've heard tonight and everything I've talked to, all the people I've talked to, I will have to absolutely support this measure, and I will be voting yes for it as a Ward Five counselor.

I just I don't normally discuss things on how I vote, but this is such a hot topic, and I feel I owe it to the people sitting right here to tell them why I am supporting this.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Labarth, since we did public comment already, I'll give you two minutes to do a closing.

Mr.

Mayor, um like I mentioned earlier, I I uh worked with Stan Ward, and and the biggest thing we worked on was uh litigating against the turnpike authority because they rolled out their umpteen billion dollar access program with zero public discourse, which is a horrible thing.

I mean owners of engineering firms were allowed to know what was happening and participated in drafting the doing the route designs and so forth, and and some local government uh people thought to be influential were apprised, but the general public was not.

And we won in the trial court, but uh the Supreme Court in a split decision reversed it.

And uh I was so frustrated I formed a nonprofit Oklahoma's for transparency and government.

And I believe from my experience, and I'm I'm not a spring chick, and I've been doing this for a while, although I this is the first time I've appeared before you all, but in my experience, it's incumbent on a public utility or a developer to reach out to the neighboring community and have meetings and explain things and be transparent.

And that has absolutely not happened here, not at all.

There was no effort by Western uh elect by uh uh I forget the acronym, but Western farmers, to uh contact the kings or any of the other people.

And we shouldn't function that way.

I know, however, that it was it was disclosed that they had five different potential sites they looked at, but we were only able to ferret out three of them.

This site that they landed on, but also uh the ward land, of course, that was when Stan was still alive, and he uh told them to pound sand, so they they decided they'd uh go elsewhere.

But there was also one designers sent it to the west, due west over on 60th.

And okay.

Um I agree with comments uh from council member no fire about what we do here, and that's partly why I encourage you scouts to stick around and watch.

Um these decisions aren't easy.

My personal side uh is with the residents and is concerned about them.

My council member hat is concerned about a public safety matter that people without power during the winter or the summer here is not an ideal situation.

Um I do really wish this process had been gone about differently as far as working with Mr.

King, even though you didn't need his property to do this, um, it does impact him.

And um, this is what we get paid the big bucks for.

And um it is very difficult.

Um like you mentioned, most people wouldn't want to have this next to us.

A lot of people do live next door to substations, as we've seen.

Um, but if you didn't live next to one next door to one and they were gonna build one next to you, I think any of us would reasonably feel a certain way about that.

So um I appreciate the comments and the questions from everybody tonight.

And um with that, if there's no any further comment, question Councilman Bruce.

I'm sorry, I just um Mr.

Gray, I got a couple other questions for you.

I I didn't really catch this.

You mentioned there was an increase in demand, five percent and eight percent summer and winter.

And um I'm is that right?

Uh there was a um currently is there a capacity issue?

Is there a capacity issue about reason uh reaching a m you know a constraint line?

What is that?

Yeah, so the um substation capacity, there's uh you have all those substations like kind of along those lines.

Um all of those are reaching, and I think I've got the the data here on the graphs here.

Uh you can see from Liddell, Pink, Lexington, Little Axe, Noble, all those substations, they all um get reached their nameplate capacity, meaning that um at some point in time, usually over um a super hot or super cold day, that they reach over their nameplate capacity.

Now can you run it over their nameplate capacity?

You can't.

Um however, um you know these uh as can you tend to grow five at five to eight percent historic um growth.

Um you can just see that that trend line that you have to get get a solution there, or else uh you get to the point where you overload them too much.

I mean, it's kind of like you know, you can you can run your car 20,000 miles without getting the oil change, and it's probably okay until um till it's not.

And so uh you just uh you get to the point where there's the capacity and they can overload it for a little bit, but not indefinitely.

And so you need to have more substation uh capacity basically to uh transform the power that's available on the transmission line to be able to just be distributed through the distribution lines to houses and businesses.

So that answer question.

Pretty much by melee many here.

Let me so on the uh X scale the zero to one twenty.

I guess that relates to capacity.

Percentage, yes, percentage of nameplate, yes.

So yeah, you had 100 percent capacity on some of those now, right?

Yeah.

It looks like little X and Noble.

So what what what does that mean that you go over 100% eventually it's gonna fail?

Uh yeah, you can uh like the design to go over a hundred uh a hundred percent at about a hundred and twenty, hundred and thirty percent the uh protection mechanisms where it will trip off the substation and it'll de-energize it.

Um that's a protection so that they don't uh you did the transformers are two to three million dollar pieces of equipment, and so uh you don't want to run them um overload for too long, and if it gets too high, it's usually a sense that something's wrong.

And so um you can do it for a little while and um we'll then but you know, project this out.

Um that's why I kind of just get nervous of that uh you know we did start this years ago and we're hoping to have it in place for this winter, and that's not gonna happen.

And so you uh and we're gonna do our best to keep the lights on and keep something from happening.

Um and then that the summer of 26 is also something that uh we're actively trying to to do, but and but until this substation gets into place, we will be on the on the edge of capabilities.

Just trying to understand a little bit more.

So when I'm looking at these bar graphs here, is this a point in time or is this no?

We're operating at 100% capacity at normal right now, and it's continuous.

So it's going to be in the peak period.

Okay.

And so it's gonna be uh some of these substations are winter peaking, some of them are summer peak peaking.

So you're gonna take the the highest hour typically.

Um, and you know, the summer time you you'll take a it'll it'll peak between you know five and seven p.m.

Um and on the the hottest day.

Winter time is a little more complicated because it can stay cold for um, you know, basically hit two peaks in the the the morning and at night.

Um so the the average uh no the a day like today, um you know, it was a little cold, everything's fine.

Um plenty of capacity.

It's just you know the uh you know you we've kind of we I always say internally would we build our church for Easter Sunday um for substation capacity, and that's what this is.

This is the the high level um and then you project out uh in the future.

Um and and like I said, we'll be fine for uh this winter and this summer if we don't see anything crazy, if we don't see a polar vortex this winter, uh I feel good about it in the summer if we don't get to a hundred and we haven't been in 110 in a while, so um as long as that doesn't happen.

I that I feel okay.

Um, but that answer your question on the yeah, the uh just uh so in my mind you add another station, your loads on these existing stations that they go down.

Yeah, so we'll balance out the load.

Um, then and take take a load off of Noble and Little Acts and it'll it'll serve that.

Um so it takes I so you add it in, and then every every all of these go down.

So you you know you're buying down risk.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Okay.

All right.

You might ask.

Um sorry, Ms.

You might ask what consideration if any was given to expanding existing substations.

I think we've had the questions asked if somebody else would like to ask that question of Mr.

Grace.

I'm sorry.

I'll ask you uh yeah.

On the the last slide that I showed on um the last time, and I don't I don't have it this time.

But like I said, the couple of substations built in the 50s, a couple of them in the 70s, and they've been upgraded um several times, sometimes two and three times.

So uh the we just have reached the maximum we can put at that site.

And so they they have we have we have kind of squeezed the blood out of the turnip for those sites.

And trust me, we don't um um we will we will make do with the existing sites as long as we can because uh substantials are expensive, and certainly this process is is a is a lot, and we will we will do what we can until we have to take alternatives of a new substation.

Uh two to the five or three of the five or four of the five, you've maxed out.

Uh yeah, the all of these have been upgraded um probably within the last five years.

You know, the there's talk about the one on 156, that's a little lax.

That was just recently updated.

Um highway 39.

Okay.

Okay.

And thank you.

And and it's very common for us to uh because the substation we put we put back 20 years ago.

Um is once that gets gets hit, we will upgrade the the um there'll be you know 10,000 megawatts there, we'll update a 20,000 megawatts, update 30,000 megawatts, and then that's what we when we peak out.

Okay, thank you.

All right, the motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

And the motion to adopt the ordinance on second reading passes by a vote of eight to one voting against council member bloggett.

Okay, I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on final reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

I'll vote to have to adopt the ordinance upon final reading passes by a vote of eight to one, voting against council member belogett.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um I need to state for the record that I'll abstain from consideration on item number 30 tonight's agenda on tonight's agenda.

I am the architect of record for the project under consideration and therefore have a financial financial and professional interest in the matter to avoid any conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety.

I will not participate in discussion or action on this item.

I'll entertain a motion to allow council member Peacock to abstain from item 30.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to allow council member Peacock to abstain from item 30.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All right.

Item number 30 is an ordinance.

Upon second reading, uh second rezoning property located at 1107 and 1111 South Chautauqua Avenue from R1 single family dwelling district to planned unit development.

And I would recognize Councilmember Blodgett for a motion.

Yes, thank you.

Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to postpone this until February 10, 2026.

All right.

Okay.

Okay.

Are there any comments from council regarding this postponement?

Okay.

All right.

And this is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on the postponement.

Remarks should be redirected to council only and limited to whether you support or object the postponement.

Does anyone wish to speak?

And since there wouldn't have been a sign up for this, um, is there anybody that'd like to speak on postponing this item or not postponing it?

Okay.

All right.

Oh yeah, come on up.

Uh hello, Miami Windler Award 2.

Um, I am in favor of postponing this one because I think it needs more work.

Um that's it.

All right.

Thank you.

Okay.

All right.

Are there any final comments from council regarding the postponement?

Councilmember Grant.

Yes, I would just say that to those concerned residents.

Uh Councilmember Bogget and myself and Councilmember Peacock will be reaching out to discuss a different direction.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, the motion on the floor is to postpone the ordinance.

Uh this says March 10th.

It's February.

Okay, to February 10th, 2025.

Council members, you may cast 2026.

Because it also says 20, it says March 10th, 2025.

Okay.

May cast your votes.

February 10th.

All votes have been cast and the motion to postpone the item till February 10th, 2026 passes unanimously with Councilmember Peacock abstaining.

Okay.

Item number 31.

Final reading, increasing the number of board members for Norman Regional Hospital Authority, and to allow a maximum of two board members to be appointed from another community in which the authority operates at least one facility consistent with Article X, Section 1 of the City Charter.

I'll entertain a motion to adjust adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Motion.

And I'll recognize Catherine Walker, Assistant City Attorney, to make a presentation.

Thank you.

And council send it on to the Charter Review Commission for consideration.

The Charter Review Commission discussed it, made a recommendation, and it finally went to a vote of the people in 2022 and became effective in 2023 with approval by the governor.

So these two items that amended our charter, allowing additional board members to be located in other cities where the hospital had facilities.

Are there any questions from council regarding this item?

Seeing none.

To be clear, we have uh the positions have been filled.

Uh but they aren't currently anybody from outside Norman.

And currently we don't have an actual written policy for how we would appoint somebody from another community.

Is that right?

Right.

The ordinance uh just needed to be updated to match the charter change and now the trust indenture.

Um so that will allow the council based on the mayor's uh nomination to appoint two board members from other cities where facilities for the hospital are located.

Okay.

Thank you.

And Councilmember Gannisbury.

Yeah, I was just needing to make it clear that due to be an employee of the establishment, I will be just not taking part in the vote or anything.

He should have done that before when you I'm sorry.

We were over here talking.

He wasn't sure of the problem.

I didn't know exactly the procedure need to take, but if I just hit abstain or I don't know if the city attorney or clerk would like to weigh in.

I mean, I don't I mean that's not as heavy some in the future, maybe so I can let me know you work there, but I don't know if you have a financial interest in who the board members are, but maybe clarify that.

In this case, uh I doubt that you have an employment consequence, so if you do please let us know.

Other than if you don't, you could just disclose it on the record and then you're allowed to continue to participate.

We'll do that in the future.

Okay.

You're good.

You're good with disclosing and and participating in the vote.

Okay.

Okay.

Any other questions from council on this item?

Okay.

This is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on this item.

Remarks should be directed to council only.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers registered for this item?

We have Andrew Rosen now.

Hi there, Andrew Rasno Ward 6.

The growth of Norman Regional outside of Norman makes it reasonable to grow the board, and I'm glad we went through that process to make this possible, including people from these other communities.

However, I want to remind council of the impacts of that growth.

As most of you are well aware, Norman Regional has put itself in worrisome financial straits through the expansions into these other areas.

I wanted to bring one of those consequences of those changes to the council's attention.

I missed it when it happened.

In a news release on June 5th, Norman Regional announced the closure of their inpatient pediatric department.

This means that the ER can treat and stabilize children, but we can no longer admit children to Norman Regional Hospital.

They have to be taken elsewhere if they require further treatment.

I have no doubt that the ER staff is capable of helping our children.

However, in a city of over 130,000 with a hospital that is operated as a public trust, I think it is disappointing to say the least that our children cannot recover here where they live and learn.

It's a big difference for parents to go across town versus going up to OU children's and the difference between being able to visit their children on a lunch break or easily being able to get a comfort item from home.

There are other reasons that contributed that decision to be sure, but it's undeniable that Norman Regional Systems Financial Health was a factor in this.

Those finances are stretched by the very expansion that prompted this effort to include the potential non-Norman residents on the Norman Region Board.

To be sure, these other cities where we might have board members from would have a vested interest in what Norman Regional does.

That being said, I urge you to make sure that members appointed to this board have a vision for potentially undoing the local loss of services, not just this one, but the many loss of services we have had at Norman Regional over the years that has come about as a result of these expansions while still providing care at these new locations.

We expanded Norman Regional expanded there, they need to provide care as well.

A public trust health system like this should be an asset for Norman, but it feels less and less like one.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Uh Cynthia Rogers.

Oh, okay.

Sorry, didn't see you.

Okay, that's all.

Okay.

Anyone else from the audience that hasn't spoken that would like to speak about this item?

Okay.

All right.

Any final comments from council regarding this item?

Seeing none.

All right.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast and the motion to adopt the ordinance upon second reading passes unanimously.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

Motion.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on final reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the ordinance upon final reading passes unanimously.

Item 32 companion item is a resolution approving the first amendment to the amended and restated trust indenture of Norman Regional Hospital Authority and confirming its acceptance of the beneficial in said trust for and on behalf of said beneficiary and in all respects in accordance with the terms of said first amendment to the amended and restated trust indenture.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the resolution.

Motion.

Okay.

And then this is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on this item.

Remarks should be directed to council only.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers registered for this item?

Cynthia Rogers.

Okay.

Okay.

Anyone else that didn't sign up, didn't speak?

Okay.

Are there any final comments from council regarding this item?

And seeing none.

The motion on the floor to is to adopt the resolution.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the resolution passes unanimously.

All right.

And on his comments, this is an opportunity for citizens to address city council.

Due to open meeting act regulations, council is not able to participate in the discussion during miscellaneous comments.

Remarks should be directed to the council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less.

When the super target or the new target was coming, it had an outside garden center that they did an NDA on, so we didn't know you know what was coming.

And I expressed my concern then about runoff of what could be from that outside uh yards and you know, putting in a separator tank and we didn't it, but we gotta ask ourselves at what point in time do we want to be the change.

I heard Bria Clark stand up here and speak of all the amazing things that was accomplished throughout her years uh on the council and as a mayor.

And we still have a lot to accomplish, like she said, especially in Ward 5 and agriculture.

We ignored the fact that they use herbicides.

They said that they use herbicides.

You had the guy come up here and talk about it, but not one person made him say what they're gonna spray.

Not one time.

I mean, you asked, but they used the cop out of well, we contract it.

Yeah, we understand you contract it, but when are we gonna be different?

But she spoke about how we're the only town in the state who recognized uh sundown and you know, stuff like that, which made us set standards that other states and cities have not even thought about setting because we are a big college town.

So you look at states like Michigan, Texas, Maine, Ohio, who have all had to put down herds of cattle, they can no longer use their milk in Michigan this year.

The uh game wardens had to put out signs that the deer could not be consumed because of the forever chemicals, and that's the word PFABs.

It's forever.

It's not today, it's not next year, it's not a hundred years from now, it's forever.

Our water department probably can't even uh filter out half these chemicals that they spray.

We're working across the state of Oklahoma to ban you manure and the use of these products on all the farmlands.

As a farmer, I refuse to spray that chemical because it will kill the future of my children and my grandchildren.

So when I set up here and I watch our representative from Ward 5, ignore the fact that they're gonna spray uh forever chemicals, ignore the fact that they never once listed when you asked what chemical they're gonna spray.

Ignore the fact that roundup is the main chemical that they will use, and there's multiple class action lawsuits about the cancers that this forever chemical will cause.

The state of Oklahoma took the time this year to pass legislation to make it to where when our neighbors spray these forever chemicals and they come over and they kill our cattle, poison our goats, poison our future, poison our water supply, of which 80 percent is Thunderbird.

And this rolls right down into Thunderbird.

We have to make a difference and stand up.

Whether it's light, whether people agree with it, it will roll into that in the future when our kids can eat deer.

You gotta thank deer is the one thing that was supposed to be the healthiest meat that our kids were supposed to be able to go out and provide food for their family without having to farm, without having they're gonna teach your kids how to hunt.

You know, you had the Boy Scouts standing right here, and it's to do your duty with honor.

You know, y'all, I respect everything y'all do, and I appreciate it.

But the question was is where are these fairbrew chemicals going?

And they're going right into a federal watershed that the Oklahoma Bureau of Land Management stopped the turnpike from building in because it would have polluted our water.

And we set up here now multiple times and have allowed NDAs and have allowed big companies like that power company to ignore the fact and use oh will the EDE EPA and the DEQ allow it.

Yeah, well, they allow fluoride too, which is coming out to you know, show cancer and problems.

We have to make a difference now, and we do know that these forever chemicals are causing a problem.

So we have to address them.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Marguerite Larson.

Okay.

John's gaming horn.

No.

Andrew?

Rosedale.

Rosanel?

Andrew Rasno Ward 6.

A few months ago, council heard a request to install Flock AI cameras.

I've heard that the council is not moving forward.

If so, good.

Regardless, I wanted to talk about these AI cameras and the growing AI threat that AI mass surveillance poses to we the people.

I want to remind everybody what these cameras can do.

In Aurora, Colorado, a family with a six-year-old girl was handcuffed and held at gunpoint after Flock's license plate readers mistook their family SUV for an out-of-state stolen motorcycle.

Another flock mistake saw a 12-year-old New Mexico handcuffed.

In Redmond, Washington, a man was detained in his own driveway after flock cameras incorrectly told police that his personal vehicle was associated with his son.

In Columbine Valley, Colorado, an officer showed up on a woman's porch demanding that she confess to being a thief.

The officer ignored the woman's attempts to show her that she was elsewhere during the thefts.

The officer claiming that because flock cameras had identified her car, she must be guilty.

And these mistakes aren't even necessarily the most problematic part.

Flock readers and other um license plate readers track everyone.

No suspicion of criminality is necessary.

All are recorded, criminal and law-abiding citizen alike.

What happens to this daily routines of the entire city?

These companies claim something that's a fiction.

It goes to a supposedly secure cloud where only the operator has access.

However, flock can be subpoenaed.

And that's not even necessary.

Flock contracts allow them to disclose data for any investigative reason, and sometimes even include broad licenses to use the data they collect for any purpose that flock sees fit.

Researchers have recently showed that flock's hardware security is minimal.

The flock cameras that they tested leak their data in real time, and of course, the cloud can be hacked.

The best data security is to not create data in the first place.

Before Flock, citizens' daily lives were not in one place.

Even cell phones with their location information are scattered among several companies, which requires a warrant for the government to access.

This AI surveillance camera system creates a new comprehensive data set of people's lives that is right for abuse.

And this is far from theoretical.

One police chief in Kansas accessed the Flock database 164 times to stalk his ex-girlfriend.

It can be used to train Flock's AI model, which relate renders the deletion of data moot.

The AI that's trained on our lives would have the records in its training, regardless of Flock having deleted or anonymized the data.

FLOC also violates state laws on data sharing multiple states.

Evanston, Illinois sent a flock cease and desist to end their contract.

Flock removed the cameras in Evan, Evanston, only to reinstall them shortly thereafter, even though the city was no longer paying them.

Here in Oklahoma, license plate readers that were said to be only for checking insurance status have been used illegally for other purposes.

These systems harm law-abiding citizens.

So I think saying no to spending our tax dollars to install AI mass surveillance is a start, not the end of the conversation.

Privately installed flock cameras have the same issues as government-installed ones.

We should discuss as a city how to prevent people on public streets from having their lives profiled by these cameras.

Should we at least require signage?

Can we and should we ban them from monitoring public streets?

We should also encourage the state to pass legislation to safeguard citizens' privacy rights.

I want to go back to that officer that falsely insisted a woman was a thief based on flock cameras.

On her porch, the officer said to her, you can't get a breath of fresh air in or out of this place without us knowing.

This is not the type of community that Norman has been, nor the type I want to live in.

We can fight crime without building a surveillance state.

Regardless of who sets up the devices, we should reject a limited warrantless AI-driven mass surveillance of everyone here in Norman.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Jason Albread.

Hello again.

Okay, so I want to go back to one of the uh consent items number 13, the monthly reports for page 11, the general fund revenue and expenditures.

So sales tax revenue, the budget was 23.4, the actuals 22.9.

Not great.

Um general fund revenue 44.6 versus 41.8.

Um the good thing is the general fund expenditures 47.8, and the actual is only 46.9.

So yay, we are not spending more than we budgeted, so that's good.

Um also on page 16 for the permits and licenses.

Thank you for including the numbers.

I appreciate that.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Cynthia Rogers, good evening again.

Still Word 4.

Um, I wore my decorative holiday hat because every year I have a wish list for the city of Norman, the city that I love.

And this year's wish list has to do with the resolution, basically the economic development incentives policy that was passed in uh 2013.

I think uh Mayor Holman is the only person that was on the board at the time.

And my wish list is that we modernize this to follow best practices so we can make informed decisions for our city when we're talking about economic development incentives.

And also, I want to I brought out a handout.

It's only two pages.

So the economic development incentives policy is pretty interesting.

It creates the Norman Economic Development Authority, and to be guided by the economic development advisory board.

Do you know our economic development advisory board has um seven positions, four of which are in one ward in ward three?

Five wards have zero representation on that board, and that's a board that's supposed to be guiding our economic development, which should be community-wide.

So part of my wish list is the board represents the community more broadly.

The economic development process talks about eligibility criteria.

Things have to meet some or not all criteria.

Well, okay, so some of this criteria is um a business that has some association with the university.

If you meet that, you meet the criteria.

Um of the criteria are specific industries that should be targeted.

Oh, but then it says other projects.

So in other words, you could just erase all those industries and just whatever you want.

So I think there's some serious problems.

I was at the economic, I listened to the economic development advisory board meeting.

They were discussing the proposed tax sales tax rebates for Sooner Mall, which would be private public funds to build private capital.

Um, and I have that's the handout I gave you, and some serious questions, some good questions were asked, but some really important questions were left out.

So if we're supposed to be assessing the economic impact of these, there are really important questions we have to ask.

And one of the big misconceptions that we continue to have about what's the benefit of a TIFF or some spending that we have is looking at sales tax revenue growth.

So here's a little story.

When the University of North Park came in and Academy Sports came to town.

I stopped going where I used to go, and I went to Academy.

I didn't spend more, I didn't buy more soccer shoes, but I shifted my money.

That's not new money to the community if we shift our spending.

And that's what happens with retail sales.

And that's what happens with entertainment.

It's largely displacing and shifting tax dollars.

You cannot use the tax sales tax collection as a measure of the impact on the community.

People in this community continue to want to do that.

Any economist who does this sort of thing, not just me, I can give you hundreds, will tell you that's not the right measure.

That's not how you analyze it.

But we can look at theory, we can look at other places.

We could look at the University of North Park sales tax.

Luigi Polbani.

Luigi, what for?

First of all, evidence you say it.

But first of all, I wanted to make an appeal to everyone to vote and vote conscientiously because we're going to have we're having two big teams, the OTA and the T if they're gonna shape Norman for the future of the city because building or not building, spending or not spending this money will impact and shape Norman for the future.

Council Pay we was discussed a couple of uh someone brought it up a couple of um councils ago.

I think is uh is a great team, it's something we should discuss.

I see the council people, I close them with that are fantastic, dedicated, they put a lot of time, energy, effort, uh, emotions into what they're doing, and they should be compensated for that for what they do for the city by the city.

Um we touched on ruler three at the last word for meeting.

We was shown that is uh um hardly enforceable waste of time, uh brings to nothing.

We already have rules to address uh loud neighbors, uh neighbors, neighbors that are parking properly.

We can just get rid of that.

We can scrape it from the books, and it will everything will be simpler, better, and we'll get save some time.

Um Griffin, great.

We have a beautiful vision for the future.

We can make it better, we can push further, we can make it more European, I dare say, uh, more mixed development, uh, what I see in the rest of the world.

It's shops at the bottom, houses in the top, street parking that are used at night when people get back from work during the day for people that go shopping, you have your shop next to your house, you can make much, much more of the space you have in the city, and this brings more revenue and makes the city more livable.

Uh short-term rentals, we touched on that.

Uh we should raise the fees, we should raise the fines.

They've been there for a minute, short-term rents are just a curving our neighborhood, they're making them empty, they're making them worse.

They're making more dangerous, and we should ask them to give back to the community for what they're taking away.

Also, it's a way to disincentivize it.

Um permanent shelter.

Um there was a lot of discussion about it.

I would love, love, love to have the chief of the police here, address some questions, talk about the area, not just for what's gonna happen in the future, also for what's going on there today, because what I hear a lot is yes, this terrible thing happened, I don't tell the police didn't show up.

Um yeah, flock.

Uh yes, data is not secure.

I mean, think about trans union, millions, hundreds of millions of social security numbers stolen from uh large decades-old established institution.

Flock is a startup with proven weak security.

I would not want my information, who I am, what I do, where I go, when, why, uh, just out there.

Um I'm not sure I've read a lot of uh Ringor Bell's agreement with the police.

I don't know if Norman Police has an agreement with ring.

Uh it goes right into the same uh team of AI um sponsor control.

Diana Hudzel.

Good evening, Diana Hudzel Ward 5.

First, I want to give a shout out to the city for the parade.

It's the first opportunity my family and I have had to actually participate in it.

Who knew?

Who knew 3,500 pieces of candy could go so fast?

Quite a crowd, really good thing.

People should participate.

So what I wanted to talk about tonight, um, I listened to the uh conference meeting about the one item about the economic development for Norman, and I know that that's something that you're considering as far as how we do that organically through contract or whatever.

And so I appreciate the conversation, and this is actually my third time to come talk about the general concept of economic development.

But I wanted to share some information with you from the your city's own budget books and things that have transpired that that are are in or in the actual on the actual website.

So I've already talked about you know, last year we ended $5.8 million short in revenue and had to dip into the cash reserves because we had a 1.8 million dollar shortfall in sales tax.

And when you um look at the budget book for um the comparison, which it's good that we have open transparency that there's out there, when you look at um the population growth and the revenue growth compared to Norman compared to some of the other cities, it's really very staggering how much those other cities have increased their revenue, but not their population like Norman has.

And so I just wanted to share some of those with you.

Um so in population growth, Oklahoma City, Broken Arrow, and Edmund have percentage-wise grown their population faster than ours, not necessarily more than ours, but faster than ours.

Um, and then in revenue comparison, that's the most staggering to me because that when you look at the 2010 revenue books for uh Norman compared to the other cities for 2026, Broken Arrows increased their revenue 407% in that time frame.

More has increased it 301% in that time frame, and they're one-eighth the size of Norman, and there are 70,000 less residents than we are.

Edmund has increased theirs 299%, Oklahoma City 18 and 45%.

Norman has only increased it 86% during that time frame.

And those other cities that I mentioned, at least three of those have less their sales tax is actually less of a percentage than ours.

So they've actually had to work harder than we did to gain that amount of sales tax.

And then one of the other items uh on the revenue expenditure comparison, which is the amount of money that you spend per resident on services and everything based upon the revenue that comes in.

The city of Moore actually um spends more than per person, um, or not more per person, but they've actually grown more.

So more has actually increased uh the amount of money that they spend per citizen 131%, broken arrow, 129%.

Oklahoma City um 56%, Edmund 33%, and Norman, when you look at inflation, and these are all inflation-based.

So what I told you in considers inflation for those, Norman is actually spending less per resident now than it did in 2010 based upon inflation, which are our number in expenditures in 2010.

We expended 1,653 per resident.

The budget book this year says $2,250, which is only an increase of $197 over 16 years.

So I mentioned this because we've got, you know, you've got Simple Modern is a Norman, was a Norman boy.

He chose to put his headquarters in more.

They did 250 million dollars in revenue.

You had the Warren Theater that went to more, Costco that went to more, 260 million dollars in revenue, and other things.

So I would just like that to ask that you consider economic development for Norman, but that you don't do it based upon encroaching into Ward 5, that you look at infill restoration and using empty store lots to do that.

So good luck with your decision, but please use the data as your deciding factor.

Thank you.

Audrey D.

Ward one.

Um I would just I'm still being the tift at Horace.

I we really need to stop considering using public money for these private industries.

Um when we build these, we do cannibalize our local businesses, which as Mayor Holman pointed out, and the data tell us more cents on the dollar spent at local businesses, stay in the local economy.

That's what we want.

And when we use tax dollars to incentivize these large national companies to come into Norman, they put our local businesses out of business.

So we are spending the same amount of money or more money, but more of it is leaving our economy, which hurts us in the long run.

Additionally, I think like everybody else here, I'm really against uh the flock cameras or anything else like it.

Just because we've taken one company off the table doesn't mean that um we're not going to get somebody else coming here asking us if we would like to give them a whole bunch of money um to watch the citizens.

Um additionally, for everybody here, um the companies cannot actually track you right now.

It's really hard as long as you practice good data and online hygiene, um, which means clearing your cash.

Please do that.

Um with these with this technology, um then it really is uh an invasion of our privacy and a violation of our rights.

Um, and I would like the council to keep that in mind when another company comes knocking.

Um additionally, I do think we need to consider uh the watershed a lot more.

I understand that this transmission station was uh a time sensitive matter, and I do think um the correct choice was made.

But now that either isn't such a time sensitive matter, maybe consider steps we can take to protect our waterways in the future, um, especially from these forever chemicals.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

I have just one go down.

Sorry.

Just those from Ward 1 and those that are here and everything like that.

Uh, this next starting Saturday, I will be out of state for about seven days, going to go meet my biological daughter for the first time.

And so I will still have my city phone, I will still have my city iPad and all that, but I will not be able to meet anybody for that seven-day period and everything like that.

But I still will be answered calls, all that good stuff like that.

So Grant.

Yes, uh, I was saving this for that end, but um congrats to Finance Director Francisco and City Clerk Hall for making it through another meeting, and I appreciate all your help and my time sitting up here and all the times I came to your office asking all kinds of questions about either the budget or process.

Um, you guys will be hard to replace your award winners.

Uh I know Brenda, you've gotten an award, but you were also nominated for Woman of the Year at Oklahoma Municipal League.

Uh still think you should have got it.

But um, I can't thank you both enough for your time serving the city of Norman, and I hope our residents uh recognize the amount of work that you've put in and investment in Norman.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Well, I try to draw it out as much and as long as possible.

I got everybody to speak that I could to make this meeting go as long as possible.

Okay, with that, um, thank you everybody.

Have a happy holidays and we'll see you next year.