Councilmember Hinkle.

Councilmember Blocett.

Here.

Councilmember Dixon.

Here.

And Mayor Holman.

Here.

Please join me for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God.

Indivisible with liberty and justice for right.

Item one approval of the minutes.

City Council special minutes of October 16th, 2025.

Of November 18th, 2025, and December 2nd, 2025, City Council, Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, and Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority minutes of November 25th, 2025, and December 9th, 2025.

City Council Conference Minutes of November 25th, 2025, and December 2025.

City Council Business and Community Affairs Committee minutes of November 6th, 2025, City Council Oversight Committee Minutes of December 11th, 2025, City Council Finance Committee minutes of November 20th, 2025, and December 18th, 2025, City Council Community Planning and Transportation Committee minutes of December 17th, 2025.

Motion.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to approve the minutes.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Thank you.

Ward two.

No announcements.

Thank you.

Ward three.

Yes, uh Ward 3 appointed to do another listen and learn this week.

Hopefully it'll be on Friday.

If not, I'll be early next week sometime.

But I appreciate everyone's attendance and pass listens and learn there in the ward and uh good conversation and uh I appreciate the insight that you may have regarding our ward in the city, but thank you.

Thank you.

Ward four.

Yes, good evening, ward four in City of Norman.

There is a Norman Resource Resource Fair happening tomorrow, Wednesday, January 14th from one to four p.m.

at the well, which is located at two ten South James Garner Avenue.

There will be many community resources, including a municipal municipal warrant clearing event, which handles failure to appear in court, non-traffic traffic, um outstanding fines and costs.

You can set up a payment schedule, you can schedule a court date or a cost hearing, and I recommend doing that.

It's expensive to tangle with the wall these days.

Then on January 31st from 9 30 to 12 p.m., there will be a neighborhood and stakeholder meeting at the Alameda Church of Christ to discuss neighborhood concerns about a proposed shelter.

City staff along with the Pace team, City Care, Continuum of Care will present.

And then the invited neighborhoods are Morningside Edition, Original Townsite, First Courthouse, and of course the Alameda Church of Christ congregation.

We will have a civil and productive QA after the presentations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward 5.

Good evening, Norman, and good evening, Ward 5.

First thing to go is I would like to tell everybody that with the election day for everybody up here, just about being February 10th.

The last day to register to vote in this election is January 16th, which is this Friday.

So if you haven't or you know someone who hasn't, go register to vote.

And then secondly, I will be holding a town hall meeting at the East Library on Saturday, January 24th, not this Saturday, but next Saturday at 11 a.m.

and it'll go to noon.

And the focus will be on what's coming up on the ballot in February and April because there's a lot of things and a lot of information and misinformation that I've seen on the internet about everything.

So thank you.

Hope to see everybody there.

Thank you.

Ward six.

I have no announcements.

Ward seven.

I also have no announcements.

Ward eight.

Thank you.

I just want to.

I'm not going to steal your thunder on the uh Go for it.

Francis Energy.

It's all you, boss.

That's in Ward 8.

Go for it.

Okay.

I have permission.

Went to a ribbon cutting today for Francis Energy.

We've got some superchargers they put in at the Crest parking lot.

They don't just work for Teslas, they work for all electric vehicles.

It's the first of 27 that this company's putting throughout the state.

So that's pretty exciting.

And just want to give a shout out to the wonderful students at Norman North.

They just kind of finished up Spud Week.

These kids raised over 160,000 for they usually I don't know how to written down, but they they pick a couple either charities or people that need some help.

Usually it's a former teacher, current former student.

Christopher Tweety was one of the SPUD chairs.

And that's it for Ward 8.

Thank you.

And I also did attend that ribbon cutting and just want to thank everybody that was involved in getting that together.

I think it's a great use of some of the parking out there that's probably not going to be used for shopping.

But is a great use for this.

Norman being the first city in the state to be able to get this and with plans to expand throughout the state.

And also wanted to extend a thanks to Governor Stitt for being there today and talking about the importance to the state of Oklahoma of having a diversity of energy resources and not relying on one single thing, and how renewable resources really help extend the life of fossil fuels as far as being able to use them as we try to lean more on renewable energy in the future and how Oklahoma currently is second in the nation in wind energy production.

So I appreciate him attending and everybody that was there for that, and Councilmember Dixon as well.

I think that's a great just showing for Norman.

And then also attended another ribbon cutting this afternoon for the hazmat sculpture at the household hazardous waste facility south of Highway 9.

That facility is one that throughout my years on council, constantly have heard residents talk about needing a place to be able to take things that you might have in your garage, like old paint or oil or other chemicals that you can't just throw away, and you we definitely don't want you to put in the drain and things like that.

So a few years ago, we were able to open the household hazardous waste facility, which serves Norman residents all year round.

We've we've for many decades had the yearly household hazardous waste event at Lloyd Noble Center where you can bring stuff, but this gives residents of Norman an opportunity all year round to be able to dispose of those things.

And their next step is being able to accept e-waste more regularly there instead of just the yearly event as well.

The hazmat sculpture sculpture being the reuse of decommissioned dumpsters that would have cost money to dispose of either way.

And so hiring a local artist, a team of local artists who spent time working on that, and it's pretty it's pretty neat.

I could definitely foresee people coming to Norman to take pictures of it, to do videos with it, and while they're here, going to restaurants in Norman and having breakfast or lunch or dinner or going and spending money in other ways in our community.

So I think that sculpture, in my opinion, will more than pay for itself over its lifetime in Norman, and is a great reuse of an industrial piece of uh you know metal that we use to pick up trash, you know.

So appreciate that, and I appreciate all the staff who worked on that and everybody that was involved in that.

And encourage all of you to go check it out.

Um, if you have some stuff you need to take down there, um go check it out while you're there.

Um, also want to mention the mayor's interfaith breakfast on Monday at 9 a.m.

at the Nancy O'Brien Center.

Um it's an opportunity for folks of all faiths in Norman or of no faith to come and get together and learn from each other and um and try to work towards better understanding of our different beliefs.

And again, if you don't have any belief, any any particular faith, we want you to know that no matter what it is that you follow, we believe that you belong in Norman, and so that is an event open to everybody, and uh, we have a whole wide range of faith leaders in Norman that will be there in attendance, and I really look forward to to bringing the community together in that way.

And then also want to remind everybody that on the uh this Thursday we have the finance committee meeting at 4 p.m.

Anybody interested in the city's budget and where we're at currently, where sales tax revenue sits currently, how we compare to other cities in the metro and the state.

Um we'll be going all over that over all that information as we do the third Thursday of every month at 4 p.m.

And that is live streamed on the city's YouTube channel.

If you can't be here in person, and you can watch the replay at any time.

And then next Thursday, we have the community planning and transportation committee meeting at 4 p.m.

here at City Hall.

Same thing, live streamed on the city YouTube.

And if you're interested in the public transit system or you're interested in any street and road construction projects, um updates on the termpike and what's happening there from the city standpoint, um, all of those things we discuss in that committee.

So I encourage you to tune in if if that's of interest to you.

And then uh lastly, just wanted to echo the comments from Councilmember Nofire about upcoming elections on February 10th, and this Friday being the deadline to register to vote or update your voter registration if you've moved or something like that.

Um, and just want to encourage everybody in wards two, three, four, five, and six, um, to uh exercise your right to cast your vote.

Local elections are often decided by very few votes.

Um, I've seen many elections in Norman decided by less than 50.

I've mentioned before that my first election, I lost by 21 votes and then ran again and won by 28 votes.

So it really does matter, and every single vote absolutely can make the difference in a city election.

So uh make sure that other people aren't making that decision for you on February 10th, okay?

And that's all I have.

And if that's it, we will move on to the consent docket.

And um this item is placed on the agenda so that the city council by unanimous consent can designate those routine agenda items that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion.

If any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order.

Staff recommends item two through 36 be placed on the consent docket.

I'll entertain a motion to place items two through 36 on the consent docket.

Motion second.

The motion on the floor is to place items two through six, thirty-six on the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to place items two through 36 on the consent docket passes unanimously.

Alright, I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent docket.

So are there any comments from council regarding any item on the consent docket none?

The motion to approve the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

And the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously.

All right, on to the non-consent docket and item number 37.

Uh staff has item 37 be postponed until January 27th, 2026, so that it can be considered with the preliminary plat at the same time.

Motion to postpone item 37 to January 27th, 2026, so that it can be considered with the preliminary plat at the same time.

So motion to postpone.

Second.

Are there any comments from council on the postponement of this item?

And just for clarity, I'll I'll go ahead and read the item real quick, just so everybody Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, amending section 36 201 of the code of the City of Norman so as to remove part of the southwest quarter of section 15, Township 8 North, Range 2 West, and the east half of Section 16, Township 8, North Range, Township 8 North, Range 2, West of the Indian Meridian from a PUD planned unit development and place same in a PUD planned unit development located east of U.S.

Highway 77, south of East Cedar Lane, and north of Post Oak Road.

And we had no comments from council on that.

Okay.

Are this is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding the postponement of this item?

And as a reminder, please state your name and ward number for the record.

Are there any comments from the public?

Um do we have any comments from the public that would like to speak on the postponement?

Seeing none mayor.

Okay.

All right.

Are there any final comments from council on the postponement of this item?

No.

Okay, the motion on the floor is to postpone item 37 until January 27th, 2026, so that it can be considered with the preliminary plat at the same time.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Cast and the motion to postpone item 37 to January 27, 2026, so that it can be considered with the preliminary plat at the same time passes unanimously.

Okay, item 38 is consideration of adoption, rejection, amendment, and or postponement of ordinance uh 0-2526-21 upon second and final reading.

An ordinance of the Council of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, amending section 36 201 of the Code of the City of Norman so as to remove lots 48 and 49 in block 4 of State University addition from a SPUD simple planned unit development and place in a SPUD simple planned unit development located at 765 Jenkins Avenue.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Motion.

Second.

Okay.

And is there a representative of the applicant?

Looks like we have Mr.

Yes, Mayor.

Thank you very much.

Uh Gunnar Joyce.

Yeah, the applicant here.

And uh we'll go pretty quick.

I know you guys are very familiar with this site as a quick summary, and then I'll walk you through the slides.

Essentially, this ask is to remove the commercial requirement on the ground floor and do more dwelling units.

And Councilmember Grant, if you remember, we met uh two years ago when this came through in detail about what commercial uses might actually be able to thrive in that environment.

Uh and I will say you were spot on correct because we went through that list and had to cross out uh pretty much all of them, and then when we took it to market, nothing was feasible.

A lot of that is because of the limited parking uh and what kind of use could actually have gone there.

So admirable it was approved the first time with commercial, but uh commend you because I think you'd read the writing on the wall perfectly, and that's the request this time is to allow residential in the entire building, no commercial requirement on the ground floor.

Uh zoning and land use, it is a spUD and it is requested to be an amended spUD just to take that commercial obligation out.

There are some minor changes to the site plan that I'll show you, mostly about parking layout.

And one key item that uh I know the developers proud of uh is the new bike access lane.

So along the north there, you'll see and compare it from the previous one to this one.

That is all paved.

The hatching is just to show that it's not designated parking for the tenants that'll live there.

That is a that is paved so that bikers could get to those bike racks that are in the middle of the site and then out to the alleyway and back without really having to go through the middle of the parking that was proposed last time.

So that white site plan that's the approved one existing today, and the bike racks are just called out sort of in the middle of that parking area.

So if you were fully parked up, you'd have to drive through or kind of maneuver around cars.

Now you see on the bottom right, we have a bike access lane that's designated for that multimodal transportation.

Otherwise, we've maintained uh the previously approved and pervasive percentage of right at 66 percent, 65.7 is to the exact measurement.

Uh the only removal uh really change is removal of that commercial requirement, uh, but otherwise a modified and changed parking layout and bike layout that we think will function a lot better in practice.

It is already platted, it is 0.16 acres, it's two original old town lots, so no plat associated with this item.

The new layout would be six units, six two-bedroom units, and it is a variety of housing types.

So we talk about the need for that.

This is one that we've never actually proposed before.

It's basically three units on the first floor, three units on the second floor, and then community living on the third floor.

So obviously the proximity to the university, this lends itself naturally to student housing.

Again, that will not be anything designated.

You know, anyone could apply, but I think likely to expect the walkability right there to campus corner in the university and the layout, a variety of that housing type that's something that's not on the market right now, uh, really lends itself nicely to this area.

Twelve parking spots, but obviously that tandem parking layout.

Uh again, when you look at the area, this is a location that can justify that.

A true park once destination.

This is the same area we talked about that with Trinitas, just across the street.

I'll show you that uh in a second, just to remind you of the area.

But really, when you're living in that kind of communal space with a shared kitchen, shared third story, uh you you know the people you're living with.

So it's easy to go ask, hey, can we move the cars a little bit like my family does often and have to shuffle in the driveway?

That's something that can be done here, and it's not in an area where you know we're constantly having to get in the car and leave to go eat, get in the car, and go to class.

All of this is very walkable right here in this location.

So we think it's a uh a layout that will function nicely given this area, and it's something that exists right now in the city.

So just in a uh one screenshot, you can see tandem parking in four different places.

We're in the area of Santa Fe, and you can see Apache and Sims.

So this is uh a concept that is already in practice.

And again, just as a reminder, we are just north of Boyd, but we're right in the middle of the core walkable area.

As we move along Boyd, we have those townhome projects that were recently approved, probably 18 months, two years ago now.

The Rev is a new project, just basically next door in Trinitas to the south here.

So this is a really populated, dense area, and in all these presentations, we kind of reiterate the walkability of this location that lends it so nicely to these projects.

Uh and with that, that I'll wrap it up and take any questions you you may have.

The only real change other than that layout with the parking and bike that I talked about is a removal of a commercial requirement as they took that to market and couldn't obviously find an end user that that could make that work.

Uh that brings more housing, which I think is a positive thing in this area.

No protests, only two people showed up to pre-development.

We're just curious about when ground would break, and so uh haven't faced any opposition at all through the process.

Unanimous planning commission approval uh last month.

And with that, take any questions.

Okay, um, looks like we have uh actually hold on.

Council member um Peacock Councilmember Peacock has requested to abstain from voting on this item, and I need a motion to allow that.

And a second.

Got that okay.

And so just to be clear, you're voting on the abstination of council member Peacock.

Okay.

Motion on the floor is to allow council member peacock to abstain from voting on this item.

And the motion passes uh by vote of eight to one with councilmember peacock abstaining.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Okay.

Moving on, are there any count comments from council on this item?

And I see council.

Yes.

Um I really like all the changes that have happened here.

I just have a couple questions.

Um, so what is the projected cost per unit if you happen to know at this point in time?

Don't know at this point in time, and and to to that point, not to you know, try and quickly say we don't know, but um we we still expect construction to be probably a year or two out from approval.

And so, as you know, that that will have its own implications on what you know the cost per square foot of construction looks like uh at that time.

But it'll be market rate.

Absolutely.

Um and that answers my question about when it will see it potentially come online.

And then I just want to say thank you for exhibit C allowable uses, which uh include multifamily residential, common areas and lounges for residents, laundry facilities for residents, mail and package rooms, storage room, and bicycle storage areas, rooftop or upper story amenity spaces for residents, accessory uses, customarily incidental to residential occupancy, mechanical rooms, trash enclosures, parking areas, and I thank you for not putting short-term rentals in here.

And I think the tandem parking, you see what I see, and how that's problematic.

So thank you for not putting that one in.

Yeah, absolutely, drastically different allowable uses than last time.

So absolutely.

And that's it for me.

Thank you, Councilman.

Okay.

And um let's see.

The first floor.

Um are they ADA accessible?

We do have uh ADA parking space, but uh brush past that, and so I believe that is the intent is to have some, but uh I I can't speak for certain.

I know we didn't draft that requirement into the uh spot.

Okay.

And uh there's a current driveway on Jenkins um from the old house that used to be there.

Uh you're moving that driveway.

That's great, and then you'll fill in the sidewalk absolutely, and there's already an existing sidewalk in the front.

Right.

And then um the only other one was the trash pickup.

Did you have was that it was kind of tiny, but where the trash bins will be at?

Where they will be kept when they're not being placed out on the alleyway.

That's great.

Uh question, you know.

I believe we're gonna do polycarts and then put them uh on the rear of the site, maybe in that paved uh portion up to the north.

Uh seems like a natural place that it would lend itself.

We don't have any call-outs because we won't be using dumpster, so it's not on the site plan, but uh they're movable, so it I think you'd expect it likely in that uh northern paved area.

Okay, and currently this is an empty dirt lot.

Great.

Okay.

Um let's see.

See anybody else from council?

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thanks.

This is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item.

Madam Clerk, are there any public comments?

Uh yes, Mayor.

We have Cheryl and Denzo.

Cheryl Antenso and our properties in board four and six.

Um, regarding the dumpster or not lack of dumpster, um, I can see where it could be problematic with people who who are not necessarily um family members living communally in this property, um, kind of passing the buck and not really dragging polycarts out to where they're supposed to be picked up, and that to me presents a hot mess.

Um I would propose that there be a dumpster um and have that uh available to the residents rather than you know, however many units, polycarts.

Um, plus I know uh individuals have to pay for the polycarts and have um city utilities.

So it doesn't make any sense to have a bunch of polycarts, who's paying for them.

How many are they gonna be?

One for each person or unit.

Um it just to me that doesn't make a whole whole lot of sense in a multi-family unit like that.

Um that's one major issue.

Um, the other issue is um, so you're having communal living on uh open floor plan on the top floor.

Personally, knowing behavior of uh folks, I see where that's an area where there could be a lot of um discord and partying going on.

Uh you know, who gets to use it when all of that.

So um I just have a problem with this particular type, but to me, it just sounds more like a flop house, but you know, maybe I've lived a long time and seen what's gone in in Norman with different types of housing.

Um anyway, that's my concerns, and um you might want to take that into consideration when you're voting on this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Carlinda Grapple.

Carlinda Gravel Word for it's my understanding that this is consistent with AM Norman, and this will be the first AIM Norman project that we're passing.

It's my understanding that another AIM project, the first one with trash issues, parking issues, some issues that the citizens are really concerned about is not going over very well with citizens in our city.

So you please be available to citizens that need to reach out to you about those issues.

And please be available to answer those questions.

And please be professional to the constituents that you disagree with, but please offer a listening ear because you may not agree with those constituents, but they may have something really important to offer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Chelsea.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Steve Ellis.

Steve Ellis, word for.

I walk by this place fairly often, a couple times a week or three times a week anyway, because it's where I walk when I go up to my office from the east.

And I I guess I don't have a huge problem with this particular like the particulars of this thing.

There's a Miahawakon uh grocery store on the same site.

So I guess I'm a little surprised I'm not uh thinking about whether or not that there's any commercial appeal to that.

Um but I want to go big picture here, right?

So I've been talking about SPUDs and and how we should think about SPUS as a you know zoning option that we should have because uh there can be trade-offs for really special things if we want them, and uh and the developer is willing to you know make special concessions to the city.

That's the way it's originally supposed to work.

But this seems like a really odd proposals for a spUD, even in the particular details, right?

So one of the issues that that came up uh from the lawyer for the applicant was yeah, you know, we took it to market and it really didn't work.

And I want you to just reflect for a minute how weird it is that as the city council, you're making judgments on the marketability of private projects, right?

I mean, really the classical way zoning is done, and I I don't mean classical style zoning, I mean even including uh form-based code and stuff, is that the city as a whole makes some judgments about where we want the kinds of things that we want to have.

And in this particular area, you know, we've made a bunch of judgments about mixed use and the like, because this is very close to campus corner.

Um what that means is that the city says, look, if you can meet these requirements, go to town, but we're not like your partner in this thing, right?

It's a private enterprise thing.

You're supposed to go, you know, throw throw your bread on the marketplace and see what happens.

And one of the weird things about spUDs is that you become an essential feature in uh profitability analysis for a particular firm.

So these particular uh developers are coming to you and saying, Well, I know we asked for it, but I don't think we can make any money, or we can't make as much money with what we were planning before as we're proposing to you now.

So you need to sit and and make judgments about our profitability in order to have this discussion at all, which just seems weird.

Um so one of the things that I want to suggest in the longer term, uh, but I think really is raised by this uh this proposal, is that we kind of get out of the business of doing everything as a spUD.

Uh the center city form based code uh was sort of our original model for this.

It's like, yeah, as long as you as long as it looks right and it meets our criteria, go to town, but it's on you.

We're not gonna have to come back and ask you a lot of questions.

And I think that's probably a better model to keep you know, the city side, the city side, and the developer side, the developer side.

So I I hope you'll see this uh as a potential.

That is all I have, Mayor.

Okay.

Is there anybody else in the audience who has not spoken on this item that would like to speak on this item?

Okay.

Okay.

And seeing none, and is there any final comments, questions from council regarding this item?

And I see Councilmember Grant.

Yes.

Um could I have Mr.

Joyce back up to the podium?

Hi.

Fire away.

I just want to have some clarifying comments.

So right now, this is bare ground property, no commercial entities will be impacted.

That's correct.

Um with uh trash, I think it's item K for sanitation.

It says that sanitation services for property shall be consistent with the city of Norman's applicable sanitation standards and regulations applicable to apartment units, as amended from time to time, such as polycart service for each lot, no curbside recycling services will be provided on the property.

Um, as you get closer to realizing this uh property coming online, is there a process for you to work out that final sanitation component with utilities?

Absolutely.

So we have to do all that when we do building permits and go vertical, and then that's you nailed it all the way down to the letter.

It is item K, so that's very impressive.

Uh, but it it essentially says we'll comply with city ordinances, and so that's what we'll review when we do building permits and go vertical.

At this stage, it's really just about use, but the more granular details uh we just say we'll comply with whatever the rules are the city has at the time.

And um, just for clarity, this particular parcels that's outside of center city form-based code.

Exactly correct.

There is a technicality there that it's part of the code that when the parking garage is built, it would come into form-based code.

But at this time, you're exactly correct.

But I do appreciate it trying to keep with the intent.

Yeah.

Um, and then I'll just say this.

Uh we have incremental development or Inc.

Dev as an entity doing a boot camp series for people who want to do info of which this particular project is.

And I would certainly not fault the applicant uh for not realizing some of the things we're learning during this series, which is that mixed use is very hard to accomplish as your first project.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So, anyways, thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Okay, um, let's see.

I did um want to ask maybe our public works director, or public course, our utilities director, Chris Mattingley, to just briefly uh mention polycart versus dumpster in this area, and how maybe we do the city decides on what's the best approach.

Um also understanding that each individual property having its own dumpster could be a challenge as well in this area.

So it's part of a larger conversation about how to manage sanitation.

Chris Mattingley, Utilities Director.

And you're right, it's it's a tough area as we develop, you know, make it more dense in downtown Norman.

This is going to be a struggle.

Parking, and where do you put the dumpsters?

We have the same issues on Main Street and Gray with the commercial entities also.

But yeah, we prefer dumpsters, that would be nice, but there's just not enough room to put the you know the brick enclosures around them and make them where they're um protected.

Um so the polycarts, we have those also in in the center city area, and it works.

We're as long as we have an alley to be able to get up and down and be able to service them, we can do that, and they do need to set them out so we can get to them.

But we we haven't had a lot of problems with that, just sometimes a little sloppy, maybe in some of the alleys, but when we talk with the owners or the renters and try to get a hold of someone to make sure they're setting them out properly.

Okay, thank you.

And then um Gunner, Mr.

Joyce.

Um might just mention why do you why does the your um client why do they believe that tandem parking works for this project?

Yeah, I think that uh the biggest one uh to go to the slide again is just the location.

I mean, we had this same discussion at a a much higher level when we did Trinitas, which is you know uh right there just south of Boyd on in the same location.

That um typically when we did apartments, you know, you want to see 1.2 parking space per unit.

Used to be the code requirement, now recommendation, right?

But as we're flushing it out more, and um you guys were the leaders of the discussion and removing parking minimums, that we want a more walkable community.

We want to encourage pedestrian um you know multimodal access.

And when you look at, okay, where can we do that?

You know, do we we look and we talked about it in detail about the the residential dwelling units that were proposed with the arena project, right?

And talking about are we able to even propose enough type of uses to where people will walk there no matter what are we going to use cars?

Well, you can point to this direct area as somewhere where this is truly a park once, and maybe not even move your car for a week, especially if you're a student that's just gonna walk across to Sarge's and then go to campus corner.

So if there's any location where it works, I think this specific area is the location.

Okay.

And you're again your client believes that absolutely for his development on those.

Okay.

All right.

Um, seeing no other comments or questions from council.

Okay.

Number seven.

Yeah.

Yep, council member Bruce.

You write right?

I'm getting my steps in.

I'm just focusing back on uh removal of the commerciality.

Can you cover that again and the sole reason?

Yes, so um, we did in detail uh the last go-around with with council member grant as to um what that would look like.

And so the idea at the time, and again, now we propose it on almost all of our you know larger mixed use um projects where okay, we're gonna propose a a apartment building, 400 unit apartment building.

Well, it it a lot of conversation with council members and and in meeting comments have been we want to see more mixed use.

Back then, when we did it the first time, we did it as a requirement.

So the cur the ground floor had to be commercial, residential could be on top.

Well, we found uh throughout, you know, I think more of the market, not speaking like we have, um, discovered that it's very difficult to uh finance that.

It's it's uh higher end construction, it's it's uh taller ceilings, it's different materials for commercial grade, and a lot of these kind of multi-family smaller projects uh didn't have that in their um you know portfolio.

And I think you nailed it when you're doing one of your first projects, that as a requirement kind of kills the project.

And now we've gotten to the point where a lot of these PUDs have it as an ability, it's not a requirement.

But if we have a commercial use that wants to come in and be a small coffee shop underneath, or maybe it's one unit and half the ground floor is residential, uh, and that way we can have some commercial in the building.

That that's the language that's been proposed since probably 2023 moving forward.

This one at the first time was it's an absolute requirement that it would be commercial on the ground floor, and you'll see many of these projects that have been approved with that type of language at this current stage don't have any commercial on the ground floor, just because the market in Norman hadn't caught up.

New York, San Francisco, higher end, that's very common, right?

You have your bodega and you have all the apartments and dwelling units up above it.

We want that ability at a zoning level today, so we don't have to come back project specific every single time and rezone, you know, lot by lot, project by project, floor by floor.

So that's kind of the update we've been actively doing in the city for the last two or three years, but this one beat the jump, and it was a requirement, not an allowance.

Okay.

All right.

All right, seeing no more questions from us.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Although it all votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt an ordinance on second reading and section by section passes by a vote of seven to two, with council member Peacock abstaining, and council member Bruce voting against.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on final reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All those have been cast, and the motion to adopt the ordinance on final reading passes by a vote of seven to two, with council member Peacock abstaining, and council member Bruce voting no.

All right.

Next is miscellaneous comments.

This is an opportunity for citizens to address city council.

Due to regulations, council is not able to participate in discussion during miscellaneous comments.

Remarks should be directed to council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less.

As a reminder, please state your name and ward number for the record.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers registered for this item?

Yes, Mayor.

We will start with Shay Fenwick.

Hello, Council.

Uh Shy Fenwick, Ward 5.

Um, I want to speak regarding the um regarding the homeless shelter and the proposals for for the bond issue to contribute to said.

Um I would like to speak in favor um and thank you again for for hearing that and for working through the process with that.

I deeply appreciate it.

Um, my concerns primarily are um, so I'm a I'm a teacher, right?

I've taught at pretty much every single level from preschool to college, and uh including some Greg classes.

Um, but I currently am a teacher in Moore, Oklahoma.

Um I have homeless students, I've experienced homelessness myself.

I am ABD, right?

Which means I'm about I'm one good paper away from getting my doctorate.

And so I am pretty much a testament to what can be accomplished with the appropriate interventions and supports within our society.

And I think that uh that we have done, I know I've seen several council members at the various events discussing some of the conditions around unhoused folks here in Oklahoma, and especially in our area, including the Alice survey, which is the asset limited income constrained population, which comprises about 45% of our residents, right?

So these are folks who have jobs, they don't necessarily have other kinds of assets.

They work for a living.

A lot of them are parents, and a lot of them are also either elderly folks or folks who are single and who are essentially working their way through college or through job training.

This includes our trades, right?

Um, so these folks, we're talking about the income threshold for assistance for bullet you have to make below this.

It's about 14,000 per person, right?

A little bit over that.

Um, basic needs are about 30,000 for a single person.

It's about 80,000 for a family of four, right?

And that puts you over the threshold for assistance and below the threshold to be able to actually meet your bills.

Um, when we look at our population of folks who are unhoused, uh, for a variety of reasons in a variety of ways, a lot of what we're looking for, and is honestly the weight on our other services, right?

So when we talk about schools, I you know, I'm a teacher, right?

And so I pay out of my own pocket for uh for nature valley granola bars and other kinds of things for my students because the data shows us that hungry kids do not learn.

It's physically impossible, they cannot do it.

When you are dealing with survival stress versus dealing with actual knowledge acquisition and coding and excitement and the joy of being in school, these are incompatible conditions, right?

They cannot exist in the same human at the same time.

And knowing where you're gonna sleep and knowing where your next meal is gonna come from is an integral part of being a well whole human being, right?

And when we look at what our schools are contending with, the disproportionate weight of human survival is falling on these other services.

And I deeply appreciate the potential for Norman residents, my friends and neighbors being able to have a place to support them as we go through this process.

Contributing to this part part of this concern is that our eviction rates in Oklahoma are skyrocketing.

It is a significant issue.

It is going to do nothing but increase if you look at the data coming up.

We are currently Cleveland County, I believe, is uh fourth highest in evictions.

Um, and that has a lot to do with the composition of our population, but also because of some of the income concerns, especially the conversation about retail, which does directly impact part of what we discussed here.

So I just wanted to thank you for your consideration, and I appreciate your time.

Have a great day.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mayumi Windler.

Hello, uh, Miami Windler or two.

Excuse me.

Okay, so Monday, I looked at the agenda and uh the HTML agenda.

Anyway, it was an 810-page PDF, and it was very hard to navigate.

And then I looked at it again today because I didn't get through it yesterday or on uh yeah, on Monday, because it was so unwieldy, and now it's back to the normal format where you have each agenda item with the links for all the documents in line.

So thank you.

Whoever did that, because that makes it a lot easier to parse through everything.

Um about the bond elections.

So for the roads one, how much?

Okay, so this one is for $35 million.

How much was the last one?

And um, is this going to be just like trading out like are our taxes going to increase on this new one or no?

Um that should probably be specified in the I don't know if it would be in the ballot language, just to you know comfort people that we're just going to do the same thing that we've been doing every five years for like the past 20 years.

So that would be a good thing.

Um, on the homeless shelter bond.

So when we voted on this before in 2020, it was five million dollars, and now it's eight million dollars.

So what happened in six years that it's three million dollars more?

I mean, is it all just like uh construction costs, building materials and stuff like that?

Um what if we had passed it in 2020?

Would that five million dollars have been enough at that point?

That's it.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Diana Hudzel.

Excuse me.

Good evening, Diana Hudzel.

Um Ward 5.

I'd like to talk about the agenda item number 13, the $8 million proposal for the permanent shelter, which when factoring in bond debt interest will actually cost taxpayers close to 12 million.

I think that total cost matters.

Um, tonight you passed a first reading of this, putting it one step closer to the ballot without disclosing a single detail about the long-term operating costs.

Asking Norman taxpayers to vote without knowing the true costs would be a blind leap of faith with public money.

If the operating costs haven't been determined, that's a failure of due diligence.

Operating costs should be factored into the design, especially for public projects.

If they've been determined and are being withheld, that's a failure of transparency.

During last night's Chamber of Commerce candidate forum, it was suggested the public shouldn't worry that cuts to city overtime might cover the shelter's operating costs.

If that's the plan, it's unrealistic.

We also heard that city care might take over operating costs five years after the shelter opens, might is not a plan.

Tax carers cannot budget on a promise.

So my two-part question is simple.

What is the estimated operating cost for the shelter and how do you council plan to fund that cost when our city is already facing at least a $7.6 million deficit this year, which by the way went up $700,000 with the new finance report that comes out that's gonna be discussed on Thursday?

A projected $4 million deficit next year, and reserves too low to cover future shortfalls.

Based on current city care contract and the national benchmarks for full service shelters, annual operating costs could realistically range from between 2.8 million to nearly 5.5 million per year, three to six times the current cost of the Gray Street shelter.

Why not look to the Norman Salvation Army, which have a has a proven track record since the 1800s in Norman?

They have a broad and growing donor base, demonstrate measurable results, and provide case management with long-term 60 plus day stays that help people stabilize, excuse me, and move to permanent housing.

Residents also have access at no cost to the Salvation Army residential addiction recovery program in Oklahoma City.

The math is clear.

City cares served 397 people from January through November 2025 at a taxpayer cost of $713,000, about $1,800 a person.

During that same time frame, the Salvation Army served $222 people in the same period at $1.3 million, about $275 a person.

The Salvation Army is increasing its shelter capacity by 263% to accommodate another 100 individuals.

If Norman residents want to help those experiencing homelessness, we should do so in a way that's compassionate, effective, and financially responsible, not by committing to a shelter that the city at this point in time cannot afford.

But if you intend to send this proposal to vote of the people, you must disclose projected operating costs and your plan for covering deficit shortfalls so voters can make an informed decision.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Gary King.

Billy Jewel.

Billy Jewell Ward 5.

I'm here to talk about the uh substation y'all passed last council meeting.

I did file an order of reconsideration today.

I don't know if y'all got it or not.

Uh I'm not an expert on the subject of a substation, but I have built several for OGE, Lubbock Paran Light.

They don't have to be built a hundred foot from somebody's house.

One I built at Tinker, the power came from several miles away to that substation.

It can be moved.

In the previous meeting, the question was asked was the intimate domain deal settled.

They answered yes.

Actually, it was not until 1216, seven days after the meeting.

That is public record OSCN.

In the planning commission, they were asked if they did a water survey.

They said yes, we did.

That's why we're putting in a water retention pond.

When it came to council, they were asked about the water, the uh water retention pond.

They were not, we're not putting that in now.

What changed?

The water didn't.

They were also the uh planning commission said it was too close to an adjacent house.

They denied it.

Planning commission denied this seven to zero.

Uh question was asked if these substation substations make any noise.

The answer was no, they don't.

Well, maybe a little bit of fan noise.

Drive up to one.

You will clearly hear it's a very loud humming noise.

Very irritating.

Questions about lights at night.

We only use these lights when we're working.

Drive up to one.

You'll see the lights are on.

These are easy.

I'm not gonna call it a lie.

They didn't tell the truth.

If they can't tell the truth, what are they hiding?

Uh there was asked about the chemicals that were used to spray the vegetation.

The answer was I'm pretty sure it's EPA and DEQ approved.

Pretty sure.

We're in a Lake Thunderbird watershed.

That's going in.

Excuse me.

That's going in your drinking water.

Stir it up, take a look.

The uh there was a question about health issues of being close to a substation.

Google it.

Cancer and mental disorders.

Tons of research on that.

High risk of cancer and mental issues.

We don't want Mr.

and Mrs.

King to have any cancer or any mental issues.

I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

We're within a hundred feet.

That's a little close.

These substations can put be put anywhere.

I'm gonna ask this council to reconsider.

And on the reason that you were asked some, you were told some very vague answers on some of the questions.

I can go into 15 of them.

I've got a ton of research that I've done since that meeting.

It can be moved.

The time is up.

Yes.

But thank you for coming.

You're welcome to come back next time if you'd like.

We're happy to see it.

And check your emails and take that into consideration.

Richard Stewickey.

Richard Stewickey Ward 2.

On behalf of my daughter, Tracy Egerer Ward 7.

About 25 years ago, during my first term on console, we had a major problem.

Raw sewage running out of the manholes onto the streets.

I got called in for a three-on-three.

Fortunately, I was in the first group because staff had this asinine idea on how they would handle it that would keep EP off our backs, but would do nothing to address the cause.

And we came up with eventually a citizen-led initiative that led to a major improvements in our stormwater system.

Part of that system improvements was an interceptor, which runs through the front yards of this on the south side of Dalton Lane in Ward 7.

Now, for some reason, somebody on city staff allowed the developer to connect directly to that interceptor for all those houses on the south side of Dalton Lane, rather than into a regular sewage drainage pipe.

So there are about a dozen connections to that interceptor that don't belong there.

I'm sure no one on council knew about it at the time.

Very stupid thing to do.

Well, that interceptor sank several inches.

Several drivers that were destroyed.

My daughter's driveway was destroyed.

She had no idea at the time that the interceptor was even there.

Until several months later, when her sewage started backing up.

The lines from the houses are too short to take up the strain when the interceptor dropped, so the lines broke.

And uh so we put in a tort climb.

City attorney's office decided that the city is not liable.

Well, if the city's not liable for allowing home creations to connect directly to the interceptor, who is I see that the staff is still as short-sighted as they've always been.

Now I suggest you take another look at my daughter's tort claim because I'm going to be lining up every member on Dalton Street, on Dalton Lane, for a for a massive lawsuit against the city if it's not taken care of.

That's all I've got to say.

Thank you.

I'm just gonna finish up what Mr.

Joel was saying, and what he was trying to say was Mr.

and Mrs.

King do not deserve to have a substation so close to their house out in the country where they built a peaceful life and are working on retirement.

And there was plenty of other places that they could have put that that didn't affect them without misleading the council.

I watched this council use the power of three for I think it was the turnpike.

It may have been the tith, but I believe it was the turnpike.

So y'all do have the ability, I would think, to do the power of three and overturn that thing and bring them back in here and make them answer everything.

And they did not answer a simple question of what is being sprayed as a farmer, it should have been Roundup or 2-4D or you know, one of 200 other chemicals that they could have listed that people could have looked at ways that they could protect their properties if it comes that way, but they want to list the chemical, and it's not illegal, I wouldn't think, just to go ahead and pressure them a little bit to go ahead and tell you what they're spraying because it does affect all of our water.

And being in Ward 5, most of us aren't a whale, so it's actually all the people in town's water that we're out here trying to protect, and we don't even drink it.

We're talking about at the forums of a horse arena over on the south west side of Norman.

And I get it, it was gonna bring a lot of money, and it's an awesome idea.

But have we ever considered about reaching out to the Roundup Club out on 60th, the little 20-acre uh arena that's been in this town my whole life that we grew up going to for barrel racing and everything that a tornado took it out and it volunteering, maybe a little assistance from the city would get it back up and going, and it could be kind of the small test trial of just how good that one on the west side would do because you could do farmers market, you could do small auctions, you could do agriculture education, uh, you could do little petting zoos.

I mean, there's a thousand things you could do there that would bring money into the east side, especially ward five, and it would also help supplement all these businesses with customers that would want to come in and eat just four or five miles to the west of that location.

It's already existing, it's already got power, it's already got a well.

I mean, it just needs some volunteers or maybe a little money to help get the bleachers back in and a hole fixed in the building.

Uh, and it would help a local Norman resident that's probably a fifth generation to help our our community.

I just think that'd be something worth looking into.

And then the last but not least, with the homeless shelter.

I just had a question.

I noticed that it's only being funded by uh property owners, and there's not a lot.

I think there's more people who rent in this town than own properties.

So you're gonna want the support of everybody on that vote, but only for what, 45% of the people are being asked to carry the cost of it.

Um I get that everybody looks at a property owner and thinks, well, they're rich, but that took three jobs in 26 years to acquire.

It wasn't nothing about wealth, it was a lot about sweat and blood.

So since everybody supports the shelter and everybody supports helping our citizens that are uh hurting, how about everybody help pay for it?

I think that would be we'd probably get it paid off a lot quicker and maybe be able to help like the women's shelter or get that money freed up and start helping other people who need help and not just focusing on the one.

That'll be all thank you.

Thank you.

Ben Plumber.

Ben Plummer Ward 4.

Um The first thing I just want to suggest a collection of ideas.

And the first is that you ban non-human entities from owning property.

Or basically, private equity firms are coming in, they're buying, you know, they're buying up apartments, they're buying up vet clinics.

So if your vet bill is skyrocketing for your animals, um, you could force them to notify their customers when they sell out to these private equity companies.

So you sell to a private equity, fine.

You have to tell all your customers so that we know not to do business with you anymore.

Um another suggestion is possibly an eviction tax.

So if eviction rates are going up, maybe there should be a threshold.

And above that threshold, a tax kicks in, so that you know, to discourage landlords from raising the rent to the point to where eviction rates you know go up.

And um also what about universal health care in Norman?

I know that's a big ask.

We don't have any money, but it could be paid for simply, you know, first you require people to you require the businesses to purchase a standard universal health care, you know, insurance.

And that covers, you know, it's the same price for everyone, regardless of pre-existing condition.

And then once you have the money, you use like a bond or something to purchase the Norman regional health care system or the hospital or something, and then send all your patients there.

So you you own the system and you also use a tax to pay for it.

And then, of course, the next thing is the there's a golf course near Lake Thunderbird, and I'm sure they're splaying they're spraying Roundup and stuff.

And Roundup has been associated with Parkinson's disease in women and autism in men.

So it creates neurological problems.

And for like a mile around any golf course, there's a like a 300% increase in neurological conditions and cancers and stuff.

It's crazy.

Um its sale at retail outlets, or at least at you know, at least its use in golf courses would go a long way towards you know furthering the health of the community.

And um I guess that's it, because that's all I have to say.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Evan Taylor.

Mayor, council members, thank you for the opportunity to speak.

Uh my name is Evan Taylor, Ward 4.

I live in original town site.

It's the neighborhood that's immediately west of the proposed shelter site, which is the subject of the $8 million bond request.

Uh, as we all know, the construction of that and operation of that facility is going to affect the neighborhood first and most directly.

I want to be clear on the outset uh what I'm not asking for.

I am not asking council to abandon the idea of a permanent shelter, and I am not asking for every operational detail to be resolved within the next two weeks.

I understand this was the first reading of the bond ordinance, and that council intends to submit this to the vote of the people.

But the sequencing of decisions matters, and a bond election tied to a specific site effectively commits the city to a particular location, scope, and investment before many of the operational assumptions are fully documented.

Once approved, contracts are going to flow, flexibility narrows.

It makes it especially important to be clear on the record uh what is being decided now and what's being deferred to later.

On January 6th, the council reviewed a conceptual design for the facility.

That rendering focused on the building footprint and the architectural form, but it did not situate the facility within the residential context.

As a result, it did not convey how access points, pedestrian movement, or exterior activity when interact with the adjacent neighborhoods, and issues that typically would be examined once a specific site is selected.

That discussion understandably centered on building form, cost control, and visual compatibility, but what it did not address in any systematic way were the operational assumptions that will ultimately determine the neighborhood impact.

For example, how are people expected to move on and off the site, how exterior activity is anticipated and managed, how spillover is going to be addressed, especially when the land adjacent is state-owned and not subject to normal enforcement by the city, and what mechanisms exist to address impacts that are unexpected.

These questions we know have been raised with staff through our council member, and they remained unanswered in any public document or staff report.

Not because I think that they're unreasonable, but because they've been deferred.

Now, uh at this stage, I don't, I'm not asking for final answers, but I'm asking for some clarity, and that is before the second reading of this ordinance, you know, will council receive a summary of assumptions being relied upon with respect to the neighborhood impacts.

You know, will it be clear exactly the type of shelter model this is going to fund?

You know, what off-site behavior is anticipated, and what happens if those assumptions prove wrong.

I don't think those are abstract questions.

They really are going to underlie some of the understanding that will be important both to the voters and to neighborhoods that will be affected.

You know, I want this project to work.

I do, but for that to happen, the public needs to that public trust needs to be maintained.

And council needs to be clear on the record about what is being decided now and what is being deferred.

While bond elections often proceed formal land use approvals, operational assumptions that shape the neighborhood impact are usually examined when the site has been selected.

Advancing a bond tied to a specific location without the clarity risk leaving important questions unresolved.

Thank you.

Thank you.

John Scammy Horn.

Good evening.

I'm Dr.

John Scammy Horn, a retired chemical engineer.

I have lived in Ward 1 for 45 years.

It would seem that the deficit spending the city is experiencing every month would be dominating discussions by this council.

City finances aren't dissimilar to family finances.

If a family is spending more than incoming revenue, they must reduce spending.

First necessary expenditures must be covered.

For a family, this would be a mortgage or rent, utilities, food, and so on.

For the city, it would be police, fire utilities, salaries, and other obligations.

For a family, niceties might need to be passed on.

Maybe Buffy can't make the trip to Paris with her French club.

Maybe Jimmy won't get that new pore she was promised as a graduation present.

To ignore necessary expenditure cuts were resolved in bankruptcy court for the family.

For the city, eventually deficit spending will cause painful cuts to critical services like public safety.

We all have compassion for the homeless in our community.

Just because a specific initiative isn't supported doesn't mean we don't care.

It seems like the highest priority of this city government is the 300 or so homeless residents rather than the 130,000 residents who just want to live in safety.

The tail is wagging the dog.

The city has inserted or proposed to insert homeless facilities in the middle of nice, relatively safe neighborhoods.

The most recent example is the permanent supportive housing proposed on Triad Village Drive next to a senior housing facility.

Thank God the initiative was abandoned.

But I understand the city has other parcels of land there and is still high on uh getting this done.

Ward one citizens don't want any concentration of homeless individuals in our in our ward.

During the depression, the metro area developed community camps for the unhoused.

One of the largest ones in Oklahoma City was located near the stockyards, away from downtown and residential neighborhoods.

We don't need to ruin nice neighborhoods with enclaves for the homeless.

Why not put homeless facilities far away from commercial zones and established residential neighborhoods?

What is wrong with keeping the homeless out of sight?

Optics are important.

When Norman is trying to attract businesses, do we want to be viewed like Portland or San Francisco?

Do we want visitors to SEC games to go home and say Norman Oklahoma is a dump?

I don't think so.

Rather, let us make Norman safe, prosperous community.

When we promote human rights, consider homeowners who have the bulk of their life savings in their houses.

Their human rights are endangered by placing homeless initiatives in their neighborhoods.

There is a balance between providing housing for the unhoused and protecting housed residents.

In my opinion, there should be a there has been a de-emphasis on the rights of the homeowners.

To put seemingly endless resources into homeless problems, it is time to prioritize those who have built Norman and who generate the taxes that run the city.

The current topic of the interest is the new proposed homeless shelter, which will cost about $8 million and cost a lot to operate.

Floyd Carroll.

I think I saw him leave.

Sheryl Landinzo.

Good evening, council and all of those at home watching council.

A lot has been said this evening on a variety of issues.

And I want to remind council that it is your uh duty and responsibility to represent all of Norman, not just a subset of Norman, not just one particular group of Norman, but all of Norman.

And it's disconcerting to me that the city can give away through TIFFs, uh tax monies for the next 20 years or more, right?

Or entity or business, right?

Basically bankrupting the city, um, and not having that money come in, and when then wanting to turn around and do bonds on ad valorum taxes.

Um, and so basically there is just the homeowners, uh, the people who have have their life savings and investments in this city, um, uh carrying the weight of the city, you know, and uh it just doesn't make any fiscal responsibility in my mind to do that.

So there's got to be a better way to to handle this.

Um you can't you can't be, you know, robbing from Peter to pay Paul.

It doesn't work that way, it never does work that way.

We need to have a better understanding of how our monies are coming in, who's getting the money, why they're getting the money, um, and uh, you know, where where the federal aid grants have gone for the last 30 years.

Um, why have they we don't have money for infrastructure?

Why our infrastructure has been crumbling when we've been promised gutters lighting in the core neighborhoods, and we still don't have gutters lighting sewers in the core neighborhoods.

There's been a lot of grant monies coming into this town.

We're a foundation grant city, we don't even have to ask for it.

We get it, comes down the pike, but it's not been spent the way we were promised it was going to be spent.

Look into it.

There are people up here that have been on this council a long time and know exactly what I'm talking about.

Citizens of Norman wake up.

Thank you.

Carlinda Gravel.

Mayor, Council.

The first thing I'd like to do is draw your attention to a meeting that was held with Salvation Army.

What was that?

December 18th, I think.

And that meeting, something was revealed in that meeting that there's been a code violation.

A liquor store and a dispensary have gone in a year ago, the liquor store within proximity to a religious organization, and that's not allowed within a certain proximity to that.

So can that be checked into what do we do about that?

Uh council members were present when that happened.

Mayor was present discovering that these entities went in, and it's a violation for the distance to their religious part of Salvation Army.

So fix that.

Now citizens need help, and you're the ones that can do a lot of the helping.

But like's been said here this evening, is you need to consider everyone.

And a lot of us do live on the east side because we choose to, because we love it.

We love living on the east side, right?

We want to be there.

Put the TIF over on Griffin property.

Bring it on.

We need we need more on the east side.

Bring us up.

Don't make us east Chicago, which is what there appeared to be a little bit of a go with our neighborhood alliance groups, talking about, oh yeah, we're Eastside.

People don't want to come to the East Side.

East sides have bad reputations.

No, not Norman's East Side.

We're not like that.

Check into Edo.

That was a racial slur at one point.

Yeah.

But also I wanna say that we wanna know what you're going to do to protect the citizens that need help in that neighborhood where the shelter may go in it as well.

And are you gonna give us a contract?

Are you gonna make some promises and sign it?

Can the city do that to make promises to citizens, not to lower property values?

People work hard for those.

Um came to our attention recently.

There's an 80-year-old gentleman over there, doesn't have the option of moving.

If you buy his house, you won't have anywhere else to go.

He can't afford another place.

He bought that a long long time ago to retire in.

And he's got some serious struggles over there at 201 Reed.

I'd invite you guys.

We have a citizen who has reached out to me personally and would like to invite any of you and all of you to come and stay at her house on Reed so you can gather some data about what the citizens may be facing there, so you can be prepared for what kind of contracts or what kinds of documents need to be written in to protect all the citizens that need help.

Thank you.

Kelsey.

Chelsea Gravel, Word 4, and thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you tonight.

You guys did so wonderful last night for those of you who are at the forum.

Really wonderful turnout.

I really felt represented by all the wards.

And I know that we had others, we had Ward What and Ward 7 that were also there to represent city council, even though they didn't have to be.

That was beautiful.

It was amazing to have a really big turnout last night.

It's wonderful to see that people are caring.

And where we're seeing that people are caring is that they're really angry.

And I know that I'm seeing it, and I'm not in your shoes.

So I'm not getting the emails you're getting.

I'm not privy to that information.

But what I am seeing from my neighbors and from those of us that are coming to forums and folks in the neighborhood that are reaching out to me thinking that I am aware of something more than I am just because I follow what's going on, and I'm not, I'm not aware of anything more.

But I'm hearing people that are worried about the future of our city and worried about where we're going and worried about their not their pocketbook, but our city pocketbook of should we be worried about our water and housing and our problems with businesses and problems from council past and problems with a TIFF, and we all know the problems with like credit cards and taking debt out, and I don't have an I don't have an opinion.

I don't have uh the the ability, the smarts, I don't have the education to make a decision on that, but I am hearing people that are really afraid.

And I know that we've had problems in the past with a council that has not been truly transparent with the public, and I'm hoping that moving forward with the shelter that we're able to do something that we've been able to do in the past.

We recently had a survey that was done with 300 people.

That is out of 300,000 people that's being represented.

Out of that, a third of the people were aware that we have a shelter.

That data in itself shows that we need to inform more people of what's going on here in Norman.

That not only do people not know that we have a shelter, but Salvation Army has been here forever helping, taking care of people.

They're not out here in the streets having the same problems.

I'm hoping that now that we have city care in place, which is a great organization, organization, they've got it placed up in the city, they're really working hard to get people back on their feet.

Um, I'm hoping that we actually do that.

But what I'm hearing is that they're planning on people loitering, they're planning for the parking lot to make it so we can't see the people.

I don't want to not see the people.

I want there not to be people that need help out on our streets that want help.

I don't want it blocked from my view with a wall.

I want actual help.

I don't want us to plan for new lighting like they're planning to put into our neighborhood, into my neighborhood, into my family, into my neighbors.

I don't want more lighting.

I want places for people to go, but if we were actually targeting the need, we would be doing research and studies on what we have, and we don't have people that need a house.

We have people that need a drug program that need to make a decision after coming out of jail.

We have people that are struggling and don't want to go live in a shelter because they're still fighting other demons.

And we're trying to fix the problem with a housing issue when we don't have people that want housing.

They want to live in a trap house.

They want to live in a drug house, not because they want that.

They want what we have.

But their demons will not allow this, and we're not addressing that problem.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is it Bill Hudson?

I'm sorry.

Hard to read your writings, sir.

Good evening, Bill Hutzel Ward 5.

I watched the finance meeting last month, and sales tax revenues were flat again.

Norman had a deficit of 5.8 million last year and is on track for a 7.6 million dollar deficit this year.

Yet council has done nothing to slow spending.

In fact, last month, the council person thanked the Nokoma City Architectural firm for the design of the proposed new shelter that hasn't even been put up for a vote of the people yet.

How much did that cost?

Norman is currently paying around $68,000 a month to city care and also paying the utilities cost for a 50-bed shelter.

Do we know the operating cost for the proposed shelter?

Here's an educated guess.

You're going more than double the beds, which would be 136,000 a month.

That doubles the current hours.

So now we're at 272,000 a month.

It also provides medical care.

It probably takes it close to $300,000 a month.

Can anyone on camp council verify that?

That would put the cost at about $3.6 million a year.

Has anyone on council asked what the monthly operating cost will be for this proposed new shelter?

I believe during the presentation, CityCare was told they wouldn't take over the operating cost for four or five years.

The 20-year bond issue you want us to vote on is for eight million, but with the debt service moves a total closer to 11 million or 12 million.

I've said it many times in this chamber.

Anytime the government, whether it be local, state, or federal, gets involved in trying to fix a problem, it costs more and is less efficient.

And you also talked about education for the public.

Why not put an insert or a postcard a postcard in the water bills?

Provide some information and a question if the citizens want the shelter.

The citizens can answer the question, send it back with their payment, or put a stamp on it and mail it back to the city.

Don't do the bond issue in April.

Get the responses back to see what the citizens want.

You can always do the bond issue in June.

Also during the finance committee or meeting, the Salvation Army made a fantastic presentation about their expansion and upcoming goes.

The Salvation Army has been in Norman since 1892 and has many connections with other organizations and companies to help solve many problems and needs for the people of Norman.

Let the experts at the Salvation Army do what they have done for over 100 years.

Maybe Norman can give the Salvation Army a small grant each month, much less than $68,000 to help them.

Bottom line, Norman needs to get out of the shelter business.

Last week you also talked about raising a pay for the mayor and council.

I agree, council puts in a lot of hours and pay should be raised, but not now.

The city starts with a balanced budget every year, but council starts increasing spending before the ink is dry.

Until city finances are on solid footing, you should postpone any discussion of pay raise.

Thank you.

Cindy Rogers.

Hi, Cindy Rogers, Ward for I'm an economist at OU, so I'd like to crunch numbers.

And I encourage citizens to go.

You could just click on it and buzz through and see what happened at the BACA meeting.

For instance, at that meeting, they gave attendance numbers for all the events that have happened in Norman, these unique homegrown organic Norman events.

I tallied them up.

149,200 was the attendance.

Even with the bad rain days that sort of put a crunch on some things.

Now let's put that into perspective.

I said, hey, for kicks, what was the projection of the increased attendance at the proposed multipurpose arena in the UMP?

So went back and looked, and um the initial estimate with a 10,000 500 seat arena was about uh 256 additional attendees per year.

But that's not right because now it's going to be a smaller arena.

So if you adjust it, the initial attendance is about 80,000.

So this is my plug for more unique to Norman, homegrown, lots of events that bring people and bring community together as a very incremental way to attract people to town and build our build on our uniqueness.

I looked at the finance committee meetings.

Yeah, we always have that uh budget crunch.

Um, and I noticed I was happy to see a discussion of park impact fees, although that made me think about what about the Raft Ellis report and our utility impact fees, because I think that was due in November.

So I guess I'll have to ask about what the status of that is and what we've learned from how we're keeping up with new development.

Um then oversight.

So we've been talking about the shelter a lot tonight and the oversight committee.

If anybody really wants a handle on the data that the city's been collecting and looking at, go there.

There's tons of information from CityCare about their clients, about housing affordability.

Um people should go there.

Don't you shouldn't assume the city isn't looking at and hasn't done a lot of work because there's a lot of research.

Um I understand the leave it to the Salvation Army appeal, but you know, we did that, and that's why the city had to open a center in the first place.

They don't have the capacity, plus there's they move people in and out.

You can't just be there all the time, and people will be homeless for a long time.

So you do need multiple approaches.

And then what about that $8 million?

Well, I'm on the Norman Forward Citizen Financial Oversight Board.

At the next meeting, I think you'll be getting our annual report with the numbers, but I had them fresh in my fingertips.

So we spent how much is eight million dollars in the perspective of taking care of everybody in town.

WIFAC, the Young Family Athletic Center, the biggest item, even got bigger than the library.

Um 48 million dollars is a budget on that.

Norman forward altogether, 164.

The TIFF, of course, at 600 million.

So we've got to put it in perspective.

And people that are having housing insecurity, they're part of our community too.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Steve Ellis.

Steve Ellis, Ward 4.

Uh, I was actually gonna talk about the issues that I raised in an email that all of you got, but I uh was reminded of a couple of things uh during the meeting.

So I want to start with a little bit of bonus content.

Uh I'm not as good at crunching numbers as my wife, but I am pretty good about all of the being careful with data.

And a couple of things came up during the meeting tonight that I think everybody needs to be super careful with.

Uh, the first of all, so we call it a uh bonus A is uh when you're looking at data from shelter providers, which is something that uh Cindy just told you you can look up.

Um you've got to be really, really careful not to conflate the number of unique individuals helped, which for food and shelter is just a little under 400 or uh a friend's house, sorry, uh is just a little bit under 400 people with the number of shelter nights provided, actually used, which was just a hair under 17,000 since CityCare took over.

So there are a lot of people kept off the streets by Norman's own shelter.

Uh not to say that Salvation Army doesn't do as uh a good job too, but they're actually their their uh usage rate is a lot lower.

They've got like 40 beds and they don't quite fill them every night on average.

But it's really important to realize that when you're comparing the number of unique individuals helped, you can't just compare it with the bed nights at the other place, right?

Ever it's all hands on deck when it comes to helping the unhoused.

We need Salvation Army desperately.

I'm super happy that they're increasing their size, but that isn't gonna be enough to handle even what our current shelter does.

Okay.

Uh point B on the bonus is um advalorum taxes are not just paid by property owners.

I think you guys know that, right?

They get passed on in the community to the users of that property, whether they be renters or people who are buying from firms that take those places.

They also impact housing values, usually in a positive way.

Uh, that's a little bit more complicated.

But advalorum taxes are actually one of the most fair broad base taxes that you can have.

So, I mean, in a way, uh, I think it's important for Norman to think about Go bonds.

Uh okay, here are the two original things that I was going to talk about.

First, I just wanted to make sure that when Norman talks about the bond proposals on the April election, that they're gonna keep up their continued uh analysis of the bonds that suggest that the bonds aren't going to raise anybody's advalorum taxes.

I believe that's true.

That's what they Norman's staff has said for years and years.

If you actually look at the advalorm taxes that are owed for Norman uh in their sinking fund, they usually range between 10 and 12.

Uh there's no way that adding the $8 million 20-year tax increases that above out of that range, right?

Uh it looks like the highest yearly uh payment on that eight on the 20-year bond is gonna be about 700 million, uh, which is 0.4 of a mil at our current assessed evaluation in Norman.

So it's almost nothing, right?

So the package of bonds together here, I'm quite sure they were designed to keep your property taxes basically the same.

It basically matters there.

But secondly, put them together.

That is all, Mayor.

Okay, anybody else in the audience who has not spoken that would like to speak, please.

Hi all, Ella Crenshaw Ward Six.

Um, I just wanted to say there's been some discussion about the placement of the shelter on the east side of Norman and in the middle of town.

And I live on the east side, and I wanted to say I'm completely in favor.

Um, I think that it's very important that the shelter be in a location where it's people can access services and resources because if we want to help people out of homelessness, they need to be able to access community services, churches, health care, all kinds of things that they need to be able to improve their lives and their, you know, improve their situations so that they can get out of homelessness and get housed and get into a stable living situation.

Um, also I live on the east side and I have never had an issue with our homeless neighbors, and I just wanted to point that out as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any final comment from anyone else that has not spoken on this?

Okay, seeing none.

Okay.

Um would just mention, just to answer a few of the questions I heard is um the street maintenance bond is not a tax increase.

Um is a continuation of a bond program that voters first approved in 2005 or six, and has been renewed every five years since then.

Um there is a list of projects from every program going back to then that lists every street that's been completed out in there, and that is publicly available if you want to check the track record of that program and make sure that every pro every project that was promised in that program has been done.

I'd absolutely encourage everybody to do that.

Um, and then let's see, several of the ones I had taken notes about were answered through other folks.

Um we did discuss potentially putting forward a charter amendment to increase council pay, which has not been increased since 1981, I believe.

Um, and we are the lowest of any city around here.

Uh the mayor of Moore makes $500 a month, which is five times more than I make, even though Norman is double the population of Moore and about 10 times larger in land area than Moore.

Um, yeah, every community makes more than us, but I don't think any of us are doing this for the money.

And and I think we understood that right now is probably not the best time to ask for that.

I don't know when, ever will be.

There probably isn't a good time.

Um but I think the desire from council is that we're not gonna pursue that question at this time.

So uh just wanted to clarify that uh that one, and then yeah, everything else was answered that I had written down.

Is there any other final comment from council question?

Council members?

Yes, sir.

Mentioned next week as far as the special yes.

So first reading tonight, well, yes, we will have a our meeting next Tuesday where we will discuss the shelter ballot item, we will discuss the other ballot potential ballot items for April, and then uh two weeks from that is next Tuesday here at City Hall, and then two weeks from tonight we will have the second reading on those items and make a final decision on whether we will vote to send that forward in April.

Um we will get count uh presentations from um staff and the architecture firm on the shelter uh bond council will be here as well, um, and then we will have a full public hearing about that item and the other items as well before we make any final vote.

So two weeks from tonight uh will be a public hearing, but also next Tuesday, council will be discussing uh the items uh that we potentially might send forward in April, and that'll be a public meeting as well that you can attend.

Any other comments from council?

Okay.

All right, thank you, everybody.

This meeting is adjourned.