All right, good evening, and welcome to the city council, Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority, and Norman Parking and Transit Authority meeting of July 14th, 2026.

Here.

Councilmember Deck?

Here.

Councilmember Grant.

Present.

Councilmember Kirby?

Here.

Councilmember Steele.

Here.

Councilmember Blodgett is absent.

Councilmember Dixon.

Here.

And Mayor Holman.

Here.

Please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I put the flag of the United States of America.

All right.

Proclamations.

Item one and two will be acknowledged with one vote.

Item number one is a proclamation proclaiming the month of July 2026 as Water's Worth It Month in the City of Norman.

Item two, a proclamation proclaiming the month of July 2026 as disability pride month in the City of Norman.

I'll entertain a motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamations.

Motion.

Sorry.

All right.

Looks like it looks like all votes have been cast.

And all votes have been cast.

And the motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamations passes unanimously.

Very good.

And just so everybody knows Danielle is our deputy clerk and is filling in tonight for our city clerk who's on vacation with her mother, so please give us some grace this evening.

Please, thank you.

Okay, a proclamation of the mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the month of July 2026 as Water's Worth It Month in the City of Norman.

Whereas Water's Worth It Month is being promoted by the Environmental Control Advisory Board to help increase community awareness of Norman's most precious natural resource.

And whereas Water's Worth It is a campaign by the Water Environment Federation to help answer questions about how our actions, attitudes, and the things we most value are closely connected with water.

And whereas Water's Worth It Month promotes the protection and conservation of Norman's water resources through educational outreach, including social media and electronic communications, newspaper articles, and informational materials that encourage residents to conserve and protect water.

And whereas water's worth it, water is worth our respect and effort as strong communities are built on water, clean water is everyone's responsibility.

And whereas water's worth our health and future as water is essential to life, and investment in aging infrastructure helps ensure safe and reliable water resources for current and future generations.

And whereas Water's worth our passion as we look for innovative solutions for conserving water in times of abundance, and whereas water's worth our protection and conservation as preserving Norman's water resources ensures a cleaner, more abundant supply for today and the future while helping reduce water and wastewater treatment costs.

Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim the month of July 2026 as Water's Worth It Month and call upon all citizens and civic organizations to become knowledgeable and acquaint themselves with the issues involved in maintaining safe water.

Passed and approved this 14th day of July 2026.

Thank you.

All right.

Good evening, everyone.

On behalf of the Environmental Control Advisory Board, I'm honored to accept the proclamation declaring July as a water's worth it month.

We are fortunate in Norman that when we turn on the tap, we get good clean drinkable water, and the water and the waste that go down the drain somehow just magically get taken care of.

Behind the scenes, Norman has lots of wonderful and dedicated people working to clean and manage our drinking water, storm water, and wastewater.

Because they do their jobs, most of us don't think very much about water quality.

But we should.

Water is essential to our health, environment, economy, and quality of life.

Everyone has a responsibility to protect it by working together to keep it clean and healthy for today and the future.

We all have something at stake when it comes to water.

So what are some of the things that we can do?

Dispose your trash properly.

Medicines can be taken to the pharmacy for proper disposal.

Household cleaning supplies, paints, batteries, light bulbs, and many other items can be taken to Norman's household hazardous waste facility, reduce or eliminate the use of pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers on your lawn, save water in times of abundance, and reduce usage in times of drought.

Install rain barrels at your home, which also help reduce stormwater erosion.

And lastly, I encourage everyone to take a tour of Norman's water treatment facility and the water reclamation facility.

Both are fascinating what they do to provide reliable clean water for us and for those downstream.

In closing, I would like to thank the mayor and the council members for recognizing the value of water in our community and supporting this month of awareness because water truly is worth it.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

And on that note, would just remind everybody that in Norman we have year-round odd even watering.

So not even not just when it's really hot like right now, but all year round, we really want to encourage residents to conserve water as best as possible.

So up next, I would invite Addie Trout, OU student in Sooner Works program and member of the Roughneck Little Cis Spirit Group, and Avery Mitchell, member of OU Roughneck Little Cis Spirit Group, to join me here at the podium.

A proclamation of the mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming the month of June 20, see, it should be July.

Yes.

Got a little typo there.

Get that fixed.

July 2026 as Disability Pride Month in the City of Norman.

Whereas July is recognized across the United States as National Disability Pride Month, a time to honor the history, achievements, experiences, and struggles of the disability community, which includes more than 70 million adults and 14.5 million children with disabilities who represent a significant and valued part of our nation's diverse population.

And whereas this year marks the 36th anniversary of the signing of the Americans with Disability Act ADA on July 26, 1990, by then President George H.W.

Bush, and whereas the ADA is the nation's most comprehensive civil rights law addressing the needs of people with disabilities, prohibiting discrimination in employment, education, transportation, public accommodations, telecommunications, and access to state and local government programs.

Whereas the passage of the ADA was the result of tireless advocacy and courageous action by disability disability rights activists and remains a living testament to the enduring principle that all people deserve equal access, opportunity, and dignity.

And whereas established in 2019 by the City of Norman, the ADA Citizens Advisory Committee has remained dedicated to serving as a continuous resource on matters impacting individuals with disabilities within the city through personal and or professional viewpoints.

And whereas the City of Norman is proud to have organizations such as Sunhive Collective, Abel, Among Friends, Thunderbird Clubhouse, and others who are dedicated to supporting individuals with disabilities.

Now, therefore, I, Mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim July 2026 as Disability Pride Month in the City of Norman and encourage all residents to celebrate the countless talents, experiences, and contributions of individuals with disabilities as a part of their identity and strength, and to reaffirm our commitment to taking meaningful action to build a city that is inclusive for all.

Passed and approved this 14th day of July 2026.

And then if you guys would like to say a few words.

Thank you for declaring July as disability month month.

I would like to thank Sunewolks for believing in me.

And also thanks to the Welfneck Little Sis for setting the example of inclusion, which is one of our synomagic values.

Your support and encouragement means more than I can say.

And I am proud to be part of this community, the place I call home.

Thank you for helping create commu a community where everyone belongs.

All right, hi, my name is Avery Mitchell.

I am an amputee.

I lost my leg when I was two years old, so I've been without a leg for about 17 years now, give or take.

And I have not let it affect me in the slightest, and I have a lot of MPT friends that have also done the exact same.

I just really wanted to say thank you for considering the proclamation of making this July Disability Awareness Month, because I think it is so very important that we bring awareness to the disability community, because a lot of people hear that word disabled and they automatically think less than or they just put a label on us without seeing us or hearing us, and that is so far from the truth.

I think disabled people are more abled than most people I know.

So yeah, I just wanted to say thank you.

Okay, moving on to the council announcement, and we'll start in one more.

Well, it's kind of hard to beat that speech, but I want to give a continued thank you to every single person that's been helping with the storm removal here in the city of Norman from all of our business partners to all our nonprofits to everybody that's kind of pitch in to help us get back on track to getting back to normal.

Also want to welcome Counselors Deck and Steele for the first official council meeting tonight and everything.

Also look forward to a great term with both of you.

And that'll be it at this time.

Well, thank you, Ward 2.

Uh well, thank you, David.

I am just excited to be here.

That's all I have tonight.

Thank you, Ward 3.

Just want to echo Gansbury's comments, Mr.

Kinsbury.

Um, from what I understand over 4,000 cubic yards of storm debris has been removed from residents' uh areas, which is great, which is fantastic.

I appreciate the neighbors helping neighbors out as far as cutting down those limbs and those trees that that uh came down.

Um I know in my neighborhood, uh, Cambridge and Ward 3 uh SNEFCamato trees, I know Brookhaven the same way, but uh appreciate it and I appreciate the city's doing so.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward four.

Yes.

Good evening, City of Norman and Ward 4.

I would like to give thanks and special recognition to Lisa Craig and Ricky Jackson for their 42 years each with the City of Norman.

They recently retired.

Um thanks to Lisa for settling on the east side of the tracks in the very neighborhoods that she helped through community development block grant.

And I know people probably thought I had an adversarial relationship with detective or deputy chief Jackson, but honestly, I had a lot of great and uh off-camera uh discussions with him about all kinds of things, uh, and some of that will make its way into things I'm working on in the future.

Um we have an after uh storm information page.

I think the city is put out fairly well that it's probably gonna take us a month or more.

There might be some areas where we have to come back and remove more storm debris.

I would just say contact the Action Center if there's some lingering piles that you're wondering, is it on the map?

Um I am working with our OGNE rep to get information about down lines and power poles.

Um, and also get uh it on their map where their tree trimmers or linemen took down limbs but did not take them to the curb like they're supposed to.

Um I'd also like to say that we have retreat on July 24th and 25th.

Um I will be bringing forward Adapt Norman, which is based off of Adapt OKC that talks about climate change, and then post-storm um doing something like a tree canopy uh replacement program.

I think in the fall is when we'll see people replace trees, and we want to get that right tree right place messaging out there.

I think we learned from this past storm that trees with well-established root systems uh like long tap roots did well.

Some trees that were surface watered, their roots were shallow and they were more easily taken out by these winds.

I also heard feedback that in some of these cases the trees still had plastic on the bottom around the root ball, so left by contractors when installed.

I would say it depends on your insurance about the replacement of trees, but if you are not aware of the right tree right place program, please look that up on OG's website.

Um, and that is all for ward four.

Thank you.

Thank you, ward five.

I just wanted to well uh welcome the two newest members, and then um remind everyone in ward five who lives in private editions or with HOAs, they have until July 20th to get the waiver filled out and applied to the city to make sure to get your debris picked up on the private streets or in the HOAs, and that'll be all.

Thank you.

Ward six.

So thank you.

Uh no announcements for ward eight.

All right, and uh also would just extend my thanks to everybody that's um been involved in storm debris cleanup um electric companies working on that to get people's power restored and just all the city crews, all the county uh state um contractors, and then just neighbors and residents of Norman that have lended a hand in last week.

I mentioned uh the Norman High football team uh going out and helping people out, and then I saw afterwards uh you mentioned it, but then I saw them post about it afterwards.

The Norman North team also.

So both of our Norman High Foot Norman High and Norman North football teams got out last week and were going around the city helping people uh remove limbs and things like that.

So really appreciative of those kids.

Um really help make Norman look good, I think, by by doing that, and probably a pretty good workout and good conditioning for them as well for the upcoming season.

So um, and then also would encourage everybody to follow the City of Norman, uh Norman City of Norman.gov for regular updates on the cleanup process and links to whatever information might be relevant to you.

Um, and then um we'll be posting regular updates as they come in.

So definitely encourage you all to pay attention to the city website in that regard for further updates.

And then also um just mentioning the council retreat next week, where we'll uh with several new members, like I mentioned last week.

We've had uh seven new council members just since July of last year, and we've had three people represent ward five just since this time last year.

So the yearly council planning retreat where we're able to get to know each other a little bit better, hopefully, but also talk about you know what our goals and objects objectives are.

Uh what city policies should we look at and review what's going on in each ward um uh that others may not know about things like that.

So I'm really looking forward to that, and I would encourage everybody to reach out to your council member.

And if you have any um uh suggestions or questions or anything that you would like to see us discuss or be brought up, um definitely send that to us and and it'll get in there.

So and then um also wanted to extend my congratulations and thank you to Lisa Craig and Deputy Chief Jackson for over 40 years of service to the City of Norman and um longer than I've been alive, and a few of us on the council have been alive.

So uh I think Deputy Chief Jackson came in three months as a Norman police officer, three months before I was born.

So and so it's hard to imagine someone working in a job like that and knowing the type of work he did as a detective and the um very severe type of crimes that he uh investigated uh that he described uh would be very difficult.

So I really appreciate that he was willing to give um you know half of more than half of his life uh so far to the city of Norman.

And same thing for Lisa Craig working um uh for 42 years uh for the city and planning and doing grants, and at one time she was staying the night at the homeless shelter and running it when the city was the entity that was actually running the homeless shelter.

Lisa Craig was one of the city staff people that ended up having to stay overnight a bunch of times to be there and run it.

So above and beyond what the job title, I think, really describes.

So I really appreciate both of them, and I'm I know they'll be really happy in retirement and and do a lot of really good things.

So with that, we'll go ahead and move on to the next part, and that is the consent docket.

And staff has recommended that item 23 be removed from the consent docket.

Um for the rest of it, this item has been placed on the agenda on the city count on the agenda so that the city council, by unanimous consent, can designate those routine agenda items that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion.

If any item proposed is not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order.

Staff recommends that item three through 27, with the exception of 23, be placed on the consent docket.

And should I do the motion or do the questions first?

I'll recognize council member Bruce for questions on items 20 and 27.

Yes, we're thinking.

Yeah.

In fact, got a couple questions related to item number 20.

And I think uh Amanda's micro CHERF, I guess it is, Amanda.

If you can give me some insight related to the environment associated with those questions.

And I sent you some questions earlier today, but we're gonna paraphrase those just a little bit to make it go faster.

But one of the first questions I had to do with was number 20, that extension of the service agreement that you're going to put in place for the collaborative applicant associated with the COC.

I thought to myself, okay, how has that document changed from previous years?

I guess the previous four years or three years.

Um, so I can't speak to the previous years, um, but I know in seeing last year's contract and this year's contract, um, the only difference was the listed out activities.

Um it's still Thunderbird Clubhouse as the collaborative applicant, and that's been the whole time that this contract has been going on.

Um, and they've been doing those activities this entire time, regardless if it's been on the contract or not, because it's um mandated by HUD for them to be performing those activities that are listed.

What about any changes to key performance indicators that you're looking for to manage that program with that service agreement?

Yeah, so um really the only thing we're looking at is just those activities.

Um just making sure that they're doing them.

Um, in terms of like key performance indicators that I think maybe you're at least my understanding that you're wanting to see is maybe how many folks are in permanent supportive housing programs and such like that.

Um that would come from those agencies that are receiving those funding opportunities through the continuum of care.

So, really, we're just looking at seeing are they collaborate collaborating those meetings?

Are they um organizing the pick how are we doing our monthly meetings, the coordinated case management and things of that nature?

Well, that's really activity-based.

What I'm looking for is enhancements on performance from previous years, since this is the fourth year we're going into with this uh service agreement.

I would expect enhanced performance, and we track that performance for continuous process improvement.

Yeah, so this contract is really for Thunderbird Clubhouse to be the collaborative applicant.

And previously the City of Norman was a collaborative applicant, and then when the City of Norman wanted to um not be the collaborative applicant anymore back in I think 2022, 2021, um Thunderbird Clubhouse stepped up and said that they would like to be it, and this contract helps supplement that.

So again, the only things that we're really measuring is are they doing the activities that are listed within that contract that HUD says that they have to do as a collaborative applicant?

I would think we would have some uh since it's our service agreement that there would be additional insight as far as enhancements related to performing the function as a collaborative advocate to include coordination, communication with the different members of the COC.

The other thing that I saw in the service agreement had to do with system gaps from my perspective from a layman's perspective, but having uh insight related to systems and how systems can work for you or against you.

Do you see any gaps that could have been addressed in that service agreement?

So the gaps that we're trying to um address within the continuum of care are in the home-based study.

Um so I do think that we have made a lot of progress in that home-based study.

Um, one example is the city of Norman now having a dedicated outreach team with an outreach social worker that works under me.

Um, so that's one gap.

We've worked on some you know, housing solutions, some affordable housing solutions.

Um we have worked on creating a permanent year-round shelter that's low barrier and housing focus.

So we are working on identifying those gaps and working towards closing them.

Um I think the big thing is just funding.

Um, a lot of the agencies have been cut on funding, um, whether that is actually through the continuum of care or there are other contracts that they may have that are state and federal level.

When I think about system gaps, I'm really thinking about systems in place or that need to be in place to do the COC collaborative uh agent more effectively.

And uh, you know, what I see from my limited limit view is capacity and demand management.

I I see a huge gap that needs to be addressed.

The other thing I want to touch on here is the shift in federal policy, HUD policy related to the housing first to a different model, a model that uh is more of a balanced continuum.

I did not see that addressed anywhere in that service agreement.

Can you explain that?

So the shift in from housing first to more of a balanced continuum is not a hundred percent official yet.

Um, we did have a discussion today during our continuum of care monthly board of directors meeting about it, and we will move with whatever you know HUD in the federal government says that we need to move towards.

Um, it's just not a hundred percent clear yet on what that looks like.

There's still some court litigation going on.

I mean, it's not 100% official locally, is that what you're trying to say?

No, like it there's um a court case up at the federal level related to it.

That's still aren't there like notems being issued now by HUD?

I'm sorry, what was it?

Is there like no?

I call them notums to be, you know, they're issued by HUD to hey, this is the direction we'd like to see the field go in your field.

Yeah, like the recent no fo came out saying that they wanted to go more treatment focused.

Um, and again, we had that conversation today, and our continuum of care is going to go towards whatever HUD wants us to do.

That way we're maximizing the dollars that we can get in our community.

If we don't go that direction, you know, we're on our own.

Potentially, or we lose funding, we won't get as much.

Okay.

That's it on item number 20, uh, as it relates to Cleveland County continuum care collective applicant and the service agreement.

That's a it's our contract with that uh service uh uh that service agreement with the uh collaborative applicant.

The uh the other area is uh let's see, it was number 27.

Uh the street program, uh grant application.

I think we're we're gonna submit a grant, uh grant application for uh unaware of this, totally totally new to me.

Hit the uh consent docket and uh sent you some questions today about that, and uh really wasn't aware of uh you know, the submarine center being proposed by the city that I apparently was put into uh a concept or uh you know um an I had an idea that was put in place many years ago and it was brought back up.

Yeah, so with this grant opportunity through SAMHSA, it is three million dollars a year for four years no match.

Um so when it came up in the middle of June, we took a look at it and saw that municipalities could apply for it.

Um, and our goal with it is to enhance street outreach and potentially open up a sobering center with it, um, which will help one address some of the home base um strategies of having more outreach for encampments and things of that nature, but also identifying that we have a lot of on-house folks that are utilizing emergency services or are going into incarceration because of public intox charges, which then it creates more barriers to housing.

So having the sobering center um would help reduce some of those barriers to housing and get them engaged in treatment too.

And again, if HUD is going towards this more treatment focused, this also kind of falls in line with that.

So the hypothesis, what if I'm just I'm not homeless?

I'm just visiting Norman and I'm I had too much to drink.

What I mean am I going to the sobing center instead of the county jail?

As long as there's an opening at the sobering center, I believe that they would be able to.

Okay.

Let's say we get the grant.

What specific evidence-based practices are we committing to?

Yeah, so if we are awarded the grant, um we have Red Rock behavioral health services as a dedicated partner in this.

So they will be providing the evidence-based practices.

Um, some of the ones that we have listed in our grant application are motivational interviewing, solutions focused brief therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, alcohol use disorders identification tests, cage questionnaires, drug abuse screening test 10, and screening brief intervention and referral to treatment.

And they'll maintain all the fidelity around that as well.

They have that in their documentation in their EHR, and then they also have a quality assurance department as well that would oversee everything.

Okay, one of the two other questions.

So uh I think something like this, I think about liability, just me?

I think about liability.

So the city would not own or lease any space that would be up to Red Rock, so Red Rock would be held liable if anything were to happen.

The money would just be coming through the city, and then we contract it out to Red Rock.

Then I would imagine this this program is right in line with HUD, and they're gonna expect performance metrics.

Yes.

Yeah.

So at this time, um, we know a little bit about data collection, but in the NOFO, it says, Um, and I have it written down here, according to the NOFO data collection and reporting tool and related guidance will be provided after the award is granted.

Um, so I'm not a hundred percent sure what that will look like.

Um, but it does say that we will have to provide um data quarterly per the NOFO.

Um, so but what that looks like we're not sure yet.

Well, I wish you all the success in getting the grant for the first year and then year two through four.

But it's gonna be uh pretty significant program if you get it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

That's all I have.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Any other questions from council on items on the consent docket?

Councilmember Kirby?

Some questions that were asked to me uh about item consent docket number four the shelter reason.

Um so from what I understand there's six different types, and you just said it's gonna be a low barrier that was just voter approved because it didn't say it on the ballot information on the on the ballot information, it didn't specifically specifically uh list Reed Street and it didn't say low barrier, no barrier.

Um so there was questions that were coming up on the original wording at the top of the City of Norman website, it says a permanent homeless shelter and resource facility.

Um of the types would be permanent supportive housing, which is not the same as a low barrier no barrier.

So being that there's a school and a daycare and a church and all that real close to this within 2,000 feet, how will you are y'all going to be checking IDs when people come?

Um because my understanding a low barrier no barrier means we don't check IDs or anything like that.

Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong.

I'm trying to answer these questions though for so um I can't speak specifically to how city care runs it, but my understanding with how they run the current shelter is it so low barrier means no ID.

You don't have to have an ID to be able to go in there.

Um how they're getting information is or I'm assuming just getting their names, um, looking them up on HMIS, which is the management system that they use to input data.

Um so I'm not a hundred percent sure if they will be checking IDs or not, but that's something I can find out for you.

So you don't know if they're doing like a statewide OSCN to make sure that it's we don't have anybody within 2,000 foot of a school violating the rules?

I can find that information out.

I think that's a good question, but I'm not a hundred percent certain at this time.

Because right now where it's at is in a commercial area, so it's not near this.

Um the next question I was asked is since the current one had got shut down and for like fire extinguishers and whatnot.

The city owns the shelter, but city care uh operates it or runs it.

So who at per se this new one will be to make sure that we're staying up to fire code?

Is that gonna be on the city, or will that be on city care themselves to make sure that fire extinguishers are recharged every year per the fire marshal?

That way we don't have a brand new building getting shut down like we just had happen with the current one.

It'll fall on both of us, um, probably mostly us, I'm gonna assume.

Um, I mean, I've already had discussions with staff about even going in there now after the uh state fire marshal is coming, and again, I've only been here like two and a half months now at this point, so um, but I do have some goals to be able to go in there and check on things moving forward.

And then during the commission meeting, the commissioner's meeting last month.

A question, I think about 46 minutes in was asked.

Um, since that is in a watershed, will there be a sign kind of like at the food and friends to where it'll say no camping or um on city care property to make sure that we don't have huge encampments that surround um the brand new facility because we're the whole point is to get people a path forward and help and not encourage them to stay into tents and uh to me it would seem like especially since it's in a watershed that we would make sure that we didn't have encampments popping up around a brand new shelter that's there for a path forward.

Yes, I believe City Care will be enforcing that.

And uh our project will be entirely fenced.

Obviously, there won't be any camping inside the fence and property outside the fence currently still owned by the State Department of Mental Health, and would be the responsibility of uh state and county government to ensure uh camping is not taking place on that state land.

So we'll control what's inside the fence, state's got what's outside the fence.

And then another thing that was on the planning commission that I was being asked about is there's uh an impression that Reed Street could be owned by the state from uh main street all the way to the shelter, and if that was ever closed down by the state, it would force people to be coming out of the shelter and shining headlights on two specific houses.

Have we addressed with the neighbors what we're gonna do about the headlights coming in and out?

I am not aware, but that's something that I can find out and get back with you with.

And I'm sorry, I'm just trying to go through everything that we have here.

Um and will we try to like with emergency vehicles coming in and out for the 911 calls?

Um, will we have like a no sirens, no lights approach to where they can come in to where if it's like two o'clock in the morning and there's an issue that we have to call an emergency vehicle?

Can I guess that'd be a fire department?

Um in our uh police departments right outside the door.

I'll ask uh our police chief to come in and help us address that.

If we can go to the next question, we'll come back to that one when we have a call, and it may be based on the nature of the call that comes into dispatch.

And then the very last one that I'm gonna ask that was in the um in the lawsuit, it's listed as an alms house is how we passed it on the particular wording.

And back in the day, that was mainly for poor, disabled, or mentally ill or um immediately unhoused, you know, from like tornadoes or whatnot.

And it said that they were required to like work a local garden.

And are we gonna have a garden anywhere on this for people to work it?

If so, that'll be once again near a watershed, and will we be using chemicals to treat it?

I'll take that one.

Thank you.

Um I think what that's referring to is an argument that was made in the litigation related to the ballot language.

The ballot language did not include the word alms house.

It uh talked about a homeless shelter community facility, which is in line with state law as uh we saw and as determined by Judge Tupper.

Uh, that's currently on appeal with the Supreme Court.

Uh so we don't have a final decision on that yet.

But alms house was part of the legal argument of what is a public utility, and that was one of many things the court has determined to be a public utility over the years.

So that's not necessarily an indication of how we're gonna use our homeless shelter.

That was just an example of another public utility that the court has approved under that constitutional provision.

Okay.

Thank you.

The chief uh councilmer Kirby, Chief, is here if you if you'd like to So you can you describe to us criteria for when lights happen when sirens happen when you're responding to uh call for service at the existing shelter, and how might that be different at a new permanent shelter on Reed Street?

I don't know that there would be a difference.

If it's a code three call that's somebody's life is in danger, somebody's in danger of being injured, we're probably gonna be running code three.

Uh if it's a medical emergency, well, you're gonna have the ambulance and fire running code three, whether it's in the neighborhood or whether it's over here at this shelter, either way.

Can you tell me how many calls a day or month do you run over at the current shelter?

I couldn't tell you.

I'd have to look it up.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief.

Oh, don't go away.

I have a question.

Uh Chief, I think Councilmember Grant.

Oh, come back to you, Councilman Kirby if you have some follow-up.

Councilmore Grant.

Uh yes.

I just want to cycle back to item 27 with the sobering center.

Um in the past, since Councilmember Bruce wasn't here during these discussions, and I believe you were in meetings with former Mayor Heichler and myself.

Uh, what is MPD's stance on the development of a sobering center and its impact on um police time?

Yeah, the I I think it would be a great thing for us because it would we would be able to drop them off a lot quicker at a sobering center than we would take them into county of jail.

And when I take them to county jail, I'm paying every night that they're there.

I don't have to pay anything when I take them to a sobering center.

And generally, just talking to Oklahoma City, when you take them to the jail, you're there four hours minimum at the jail.

At a sobering center, sometimes they're there longer, and they agree to go there.

It's voluntary that they go to the sobering center and they agree to the terms that's there.

So generally they're staying there six hours at most of them.

They get resources, like in Oklahoma City, they'll give them a sandwich and a drink when they wake back up, give them some resources for uh making better decisions in the future.

But I'm definitely uh a fan of a sobering type center and make it much uh quicker for us.

And then I just want to speak to our festive environments, particularly on game day.

Um so if somebody were picked up for a public in talks, like say on campus corner and we had a sobering center, this is a better outcome for a visitor, I take it than going to jail.

Yeah, it would be.

I mean, they're not gonna have to pay a fine and things like that.

Uh they would just be dropped off at the sobering center, they'd get out, uh, be referred to resources, probably in their area when they got back home, and uh hopefully change their behavior in the future.

That is the hope.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Councilor Bruce?

Uh just life experience.

There's you know the you don't have a deterrent.

I mean, well my my projection if you don't have deterrent, yeah, you're gonna have an increase.

You're gonna have an increase.

I don't know.

I I understand that.

Because it's subsidized.

And if we had chronic people, we'd probably be taking them into jail.

Uh but the people like we're talking about that you might get off campus corner or uh finding various places, uh, we would definitely drop out a sobering center, uh, hopefully to get more help.

And there still is a deterrent, I feel that it's taking your time.

That's six hours that you're out.

Uh that you wouldn't make it.

I understand from the police perspective.

I I I get it.

Any time you subsidize subsidize anything, you're gonna increase.

The uh if I'm a visitor Norman, I'm thanking you.

You know, if I'm homeless, I'm thanking you.

You know, which all right, I get it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um about how long, just on that note, how long do you think um currently does a Norman police officer take to book someone into the Cleveland County jail?

How long is that officer off the off patrol process?

Off the street.

I mean, you're probably looking at our minimum, a minimum.

Uh once you pick them up, and then you take them up to county, you go through the process depending on how busy they are and what's going on, get them booked in there.

By the time you leave county, you're gonna be close to an hour.

When I toured the Tulsa sobering center a couple years ago with former sheriff Todd Gibson, um, they had explained to us that part of the way they had paid for theirs was they calculated the cost of the time for Tulsa PD to book someone into the county jail versus the time it took them to drop someone off at the sobering center, and they put that together and were able to calculate this is how much we're saving in officer time uh but them not being at the county jail for two hours or whatever.

Yeah, I can see a sobering center, particularly when you have it in downtown sort of area.

It'd be a lot quicker than driving all the way up north.

They were saying about 10 minutes was how long it took Tulsa police officers to check someone into the sobering center compared to over an hour at the Tulsa County jails.

Real quick.

Um anyway.

Anyway, just um yeah, thank you very much, Chief.

Any other questions from council on the consent?

Kirby, do you have any uh councilmer Kirby?

Do you have any follow-ups?

I do.

I'm asking legal about it though right now because I don't I'm in it.

So I'm in a pickle because ward five voted no to the homeless shelter, as you know.

Um and I have to leave my personal feelings right there at the door.

Um I'm really struggling with the fact that we can't get an answer on the registered offenders being that close to a school, and I struggling with a yes vote on until I get that answer, and I was asking if there was a way to move it to where it could still be voted on by everybody else without me voting no to kill it because it has to be unanimous.

So I'm just trying to figure out a way because I can't vote to it it to be that close to a school until I get that sex offender uh question answered.

I yeah, that makes sense.

Um that is one option where we can just vote on it individually as a not a consent item.

But this I've probably already been talking to you about it, but this is just the first reading, so in two weeks we would have the actual hearing with the public and everybody on this item, and that would be the opportunity to vote no if that's what feel compelled, or if council wants to postpone it or whatever um two weeks from today would be that opportunity to do so.

This is really just the notice to everybody that we'll have that discussion in two weeks.

So, but we can do that, or we can take it off and vote on it by itself.

If there's a way, I would really prefer because I need my word.

Um I mean, that was one of the main questions asked multiple times, and as a representative of Ward 5, I feel it's best that I represent the people who are concerned about that particular issue.

Um but I don't want to stop this from moving forward because I know how important it is to move forward as well.

Okay.

Um councilmer Dixon has a question if you want to continue.

Are we it's my understanding we're just voting on the zoning, it's not the operations of the shelter.

That's right.

Any other councilmember Bruce?

The first reading.

Yeah, there's always a second reading, and then there's you know, unlike the contracts and the grants, that's one time.

So it's a little bit different than those situations.

Yeah, but um whatever uh works best is fine, I think.

So I would just say that again, if if uh for the peace of mind of any ward five residents again, uh regardless of what we do tonight, two weeks from tonight would be the unless we postpone it somehow, but there'd be a public hearing two weeks from tonight here in this room with city staff, and then would there be an opportunity for public comment in regard to the shelter rezoning?

And then the council we would uh take a vote to approve it or not, or we could vote to postpone it, whichever one of those options uh the council feels like doing.

But in two weeks there will be a uh public hearing on this item unless we postpone it tonight somehow.

So whatever you'd like to do, council member.

I don't want to postpone it, but I don't want to vote yes on it either.

Well, I'd say just voting you're voting yes tonight is just voting on the public hearing happening in two weeks.

And then in two weeks, if Ward 5 voters want you to vote no, that would be the opportunity to vote no.

And we'll get those questions.

I think those will be answered for you by uh two weeks from today.

But we can take it off consent and we can vote on it separately too.

So whichever one works for you, council member.

I would like to take it off consent and vote separate.

Okay, I think we have a motion on the floor.

Okay, so we'll need a motion to amend that motion to remove this item, item four from the consent agenda.

Um I actually took comment before I did a motion to place items three through twenty-seven on the we need to get a motion on the floor, then we can exclude it with that motion.

Okay, so might say that again.

Sorry.

We you can take a motion uh to include items.

Let me find my item three.

So I would entertain a motion to place items three through twenty-seven with the exception of twenty-three and four on the consent docket.

Correct.

And if there is a second, second.

Okay.

And then the motion on the floor is to place items three through twenty-seven with the exception of items twenty-three and item four on the consent docket.

So we'll be voting on item four separately, and item twenty three has been is being pulled from the agenda anyway.

So okay.

And council members, you may cast your votes.

I heard that statement now.

All right.

All votes have been cast.

All votes have been cast in the motion to place items three through 27 with the exception of item four and twenty-three on the consent docket.

Passes unanimously.

All right, and I'll approve a motion to approve the consent docket as is motion.

The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Okay.

Grant Dixon.

Got a little confused there.

Um we pull up item number one because I don't have it on this.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Item number four is consideration.

I gotta repeat the result.

Okay, yeah.

All votes have been cast in the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously.

All right.

And then we'll uh item number four here is consideration of adoption rejection amendment and/or postponement of ordinance zero-2526-68 upon first reading by title.

An ordinance of the city council of the city of Norman, Oklahoma, amending section 36-201 of the code of the city of Norman as to adopt a zoning designation for a tract of land lying in the southeast quarter uh section township range of the Indian Meridian, Norman Cleveland County, Oklahoma, in place in a simple spUD planned unit uh planned unit development and providing for the severability thereof.

Uh property generally located at the southeast corner of Reed Avenue and Ufala Street.

And uh I guess the motion would be to approve the first reading.

Okay.

I'll entertain a motion to approve or reject the first motion to approve.

All right.

Um right, council members, you may cast your votes.

Or is it you might need to reset it real quick?

Hold on.

That's still showing it.

It's gotta be reset.

There you go.

Okay, there we go.

Okay.

All votes have been cast and the motion to approve the ordinance.

Item number four passes on first reading.

On first reading by a vote of seven to one.

Voting against council member Kirby.

Thank you.

And again, that will be back here in two weeks for a full uh public hearing and public comment and presentation.

Um other procedure that we need.

Is that your okay?

Okay.

I don't know if we had to do a second one on that one.

So okay, and we'll make sure we get any questions answered before then, hopefully.

All right, item 28 is an ordinance amending section 36-201 of the code as to remove property generally located near Wiltshire Drive and Arcady Avenue from PL Parkland District and place the same in R1 single family dwelling district.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Motion to approve.

Second.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section.

Wait.

Don't we need to do comment first before we approve it?

Okay.

Okay.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Is there a second?

Second.

And is there a representative of the applicant to make a presentation?

Thank you, Mary.

Yes, sir.

Sean Reger for the applicant tonight.

Let me get to order.

All right, development here.

Just a second.

Here we go.

All right.

So we're in Southeast Norm tonight.

What we have is really a very straightforward zoning and plat.

It is two really very different items, and so I want to take you through them.

This is an example zoning of sometimes things just get missed.

This was a zoning on a parkland shift that got approved in the map, but didn't get approved in the application of the rezoning.

And it's a little bit confusing as to what happened, but I'll try to explain that as best I can.

So tonight before you are item 28 and 29.

28 is the little yellow area right there.

It's a rezoning to correct a park, a mistake where a park was built in the right location because it was built as the map was approved in 2013.

Unfortunately, the zoning was not approved with it.

And so the zoning didn't get shifted when the park got shifted.

And so we're here tonight to correct that mistake.

And uh and then the red outline is a preliminary plat item tonight.

That is the larger area, which is item 29.

So I'll try to explain the difference of what these both mean and how they got here.

Again, it is two different items.

On the left is the rezoning to correct, basically a mistaken uh parkland dedication that got moved, park got built, but the zoning didn't get moved with it.

And then on the right is a preliminary plat that is just updating the remaining phases of the preliminary plat and meeting all of the updated engineering design criteria.

So first, let's talk about item 28 and explain what happened because you're probably wondering why are we rezoning parkland for a park that's already been built.

Well, this stuff happens sometimes.

And uh what happened was in 2013, we were here, I was here at the podium, and uh it was a rezoning and a large preliminary plat that was in front of the council at that time.

And what happened was the zoning uh, as so often they do, blew up into a big controversial zoning of highway nine, and so the rezoning was rezoning the commercial lots across highway nine and the plat and the access points on highway nine, and we basically spent months debating that and and working that out.

Well, nobody really uh realized that when we did that, the map on the right that was approved, moved the parkland from what you see on the left over, but there was actually no filed zoning application to move that park.

And so the map moved the park, and everybody went forward and we built the park, and the the development got worked forward with the park in the new location, but all the while the zoning mapping of your city showed that the park was still supposed to be over there on the left.

So just flat missed.

That's why we're here tonight is to correct that.

So tonight, this is the mapping to show you staff wrote the park location was modified as part of the 2013 plat.

It was, however, a corresponding rezoning was not requested at the time, simply a mistake.

Rezoning was limited to the commercial frontage along Highway 9.

And so that's the zoning map as you see it today.

You see that the park is still zoned in the green area to the left.

But then if you look at the next map, the park was still showing as rezoned on the left, but it's kind of hard to see on that graphic.

But the park where it was actually built is now shown as light green in a different location.

And so uh there it is built.

Unfortunately, the zoning still shows the park on the upper left there.

I mean, on the the diagram in the middle, the park is the green area by zoning.

Unfortunately, it got built where fortunately it got built where it was intended to be built, but the zoning is still left over on the upper left.

So item 28, beautiful park, good park, it's there, all functioning, it meets all the parkland requirements of the development.

We just simply need to correct the zoning and put the zoning over where the park is for the parkland.

Uh, this meets AIM Norman, just so you're aware, we're not trying to do anything that aim norm does, even though it was done in 2013.

AIM Norman fortunately realized that the park is in the actual location where it is and not where the zoning shows it to be.

And so Aim Norman correctly showed the park in the in the currently built location.

Aime Norman says that the area I'm asking you to correct the zoning on to change from parkland zoning to R1 should be urban low and urban medium.

And you see on the left side is what aim Norman says that should be, which is low intensity, predominantly residential densities, greater than three units per acre, and that picture is out of aim Norman, suggesting what the development would look like.

That is exactly what we're building.

If you've been out to Bellatona, it's a nice neighborhood that has housing just like that on the left.

So item 28 in conclusion is simply to correct the parkland.

And so if you move the parkland zoning over to where the park is, or let me just say that differently, if you approve the R1 district zoning for what is proposed in the red circle, then we have corrected where the park should be and where it should not be.

Staff wrote parkland to R1 is consistent with both the development history of this area and the city's parkland dedication requirements.

So that's item 28.

Item 29 is a preliminary plat.

And we do have a couple of council members.

Congratulations.

I'm glad you're here and we welcome you.

And preliminary plat, let me kind of explain what a preliminary plat is.

When a preliminary plat comes forward, oftentimes what you're going to see that comes forward on zonings is you're oftentimes going to see kind of three pieces come forward.

You're going to see a stud, we want it to be commercial, residential, something.

Then you might see a rezoning request, which is what I just presented, which is much more specific as to use, meaning R1, maybe, or a PUD with very specific things inside of it.

And that's use.

That's what the property should be used as.

What what how should it be functioning as a use on site?

Platting is usually the final piece that we bring.

And platting is just making sure that it is creating lots and blocks legally.

So if you go on to properties on the county assessor, you will see them described as what we call meets and bounds, which is 39 degrees north, thence, 400 feet west, thence, et cetera.

That's called meets and bounds, legal descriptions.

When we take a property through platting through this process, it turns it into lot one, block one, and that means you as a city have accepted that lot as a functioning legal lot that can accept city services of water, sewer, trash, streets, fire, police, etc.

And so platting is that process.

Platting has nothing to do with use.

The use is already determined, it's done.

Platting is just simply saying, hey, we understand what your ordinances say, how to create a lot and block.

We're here to do that.

And so that's what this one is tonight.

The other aspect of platting is that sometimes developers bring large plats through.

And this is an example of that.

And what you're seeing is from 2003 on the left, we have a large plat that was brought through for Summit Valley on the west side and Bellatona on the east side.

And then it was approved again in 2008, and then again in 2011, and then again in 2013 when that park was shifted.

The reason they go through so many transitions is because you have a code that says when we preliminary plat one piece of land, we're required by law to preliminary plat the entirety of the land.

We can't just pick a part of the land and say we're going to preliminary plat that piece and leave the rest alone.

Your subdivision regulations require us to preliminary plat and plan the entire ownership.

And so since 2003, this ownership has been planned in that big of a fashion.

And so it's been approved five times, four times previously, since 2003, so over 23 years.

And the developer, the way it works functionally, is they continue to just build on that plat.

And they continue to build phases, and then when a plat expires, they come back as I have tonight to update the plat as the as the phasing continues on.

A plat is only good for five years, and it's good for seven years if you build part of it.

Well, this one obviously has had part of it built, but it was only good then for seven years.

2013 was the last time it was approved.

So we are back tonight to update this platce it has expired.

So that's what was approved on the left.

If you see on the the large piece on the left, is what was approved.

Tonight I'm here with this developer asking you to just simply update the approval of this plat.

The only change from 13 years ago is if you look on the right, there's blue dashed areas, and if you compare that to the left, we just slightly change the the layout of the interior streets.

That's it.

Nothing else has changed.

So I'm asking you to reapprove, reapprove this preliminary plat from when it was approved in 2013.

It obviously is being built out.

There are stub streets and stubbed utilities and water lines and sewers already built in place, stubbed out into the rest of this development.

So if you approve this tonight, it's already ready to go.

The staff wrote this is basically in summary, 104 acres, 403 single family lots.

That's good news.

As we know, we have a severe shortage on housing.

This is this is basically modest housing that we go in as single family housing.

No variances are requested.

That's important to note too when we do a preliminary plat.

Preliminary plates sometimes we will ask you for variances of your ordinances.

We might ask you to allow for a longer cul-de-sac or a shorter separation between street intersections or things like that.

When we do that, you have an important decision to make.

Tonight, and oftentimes tonight, I come here with no variances.

We're not requesting any variances from your city ordinances.

We are just simply asking you to approve the plat, and then we have to build it to match every single ordinance you have.

And the good news is in 2023, the city updated a manual called the Engineering Design Criteria, the EDC you'll hear us refer to it.

Book about that big, big old book that says that's how we have to build the stormwater, the streets, the fire hydrants, the curbs, everything.

And we, the engineers, Chris Anderson with me tonight has to design that development to meet every one of those criteria.

If we ask for a variance, then you have a decision to make when we don't ask for variances, like tonight, is typically considered a ministerial approval because we are just saying we're going to meet your ordinances and build it as is.

Staff recommends approval on this one.

Again, in summary, on the left, it's a rezoning to correct parkland to take away the parkland designation from where the park used to be and let it let it be R1.

And on the right is a preliminary plat update, simply updating from what was approved 13 years ago so that we can continue the development.

That's it.

I'm sorry I went at length there, but I wanted to kind of explain why this was a little confusing and why it's back in front of you when the park was built in one place and not the other.

I'm happy to answer any questions you have, and I thank you very much for your consideration.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Um there any comments from council and council grant?

Yes.

Um I was looking over the agenda packet for this and seeing that most of the protest was about flooding concerns and asking for enhanced stormwater mitigation.

I saw where you listed that staff said uh and I saw the staff report saying that it met the plans or they're approved.

Was there enhanced mitigation with that?

No, and I'm I'm glad you asked.

I didn't know if you wanted to hear more about that.

I have slides that can tell you about the the issues, and Chris is here to talk about that.

Let's talk about the protest.

Uh there was a protest.

I don't know if they're here tonight or not, but uh they came to pre-development and talked about it.

Let me kind of answer your question in broad fashion if I can, Councilmember McGrant.

Um, so on the left is this area, and the yellow outline on the left is the preliminary plat that we're asking you to approve.

And this question in this, the their protest was really relevant to the preliminary plat, not the parkland.

I didn't read anything in their protest to the case.

Yes, it was with item 29.

Yeah, this was item 29.

Yeah.

So the neighbor that protested and wrote the letter is basically multiple of them, but a larger family, I believe, is in the red box at the top.

What I want to show you is you see the green areas, those are water quality protection zones, what we call WQPZs.

And if you can imagine, you can kind of imagine those are as streams, stream plane quarters.

That red box, you see the green one coming out of it, that drains south out of that box.

So we're not draining this whole yellow area up into their land.

It's actually the reverse.

Their land is draining down into our land, is one answer to that.

Secondly, you can see our development basically drains down to the south and then over to the east.

You can kind of see the fingers of trees and street and canals that are coming in from the east.

So our land basically drains to the south and to the east.

On the upper right, I would also suggest their protests said they were agricultural and they wanted to stay agricultural and they wanted everybody around them to basically stay agricultural.

Again, we're not here for rezoning tonight on this piece.

We are just here for preliminary plat.

But I would indicate and show you that AM Norman has this parcel, all of our land on the north end around them to be urban medium.

And I showed you earlier, urban medium is intended to be a fairly intense residential area of eight units plus densities.

So uh so it's intended to be developed out pretty significantly.

What I want to show you on the left side is in your packet.

This was a photo that they shared on their protest.

And on the upper left is that red area.

The yellow is our preliminary plat.

And we are basically haven't built anything yet in this area.

So I was intrigued that they had basically written a protest.

It seemed to be suggesting that we had caused flooding on them.

We haven't done anything up here yet.

We haven't built a thing.

So, and as you saw previously, most of their area comes from other places.

So we're not draining anything into their property yet at all.

When we do build on the right, it's kind of hard to see on the screen, but you can see we are only a little bitty sliver of land coming up next to them.

On the right, you will see green area.

That green area, once we build this, will actually be changed to where it drains away from them because that's basically the street.

So the street and that area green will now drain basically down the street and be collected and taken down into stormwater.

The only thing that will drain to them is an area that already drains to them, but it will be the backyards of 17 houses.

So the backyards of 17 houses will drain to them.

It already drains to them, and I suppose part of the roofs of those 17 houses.

But we have to design it in such fashion to make sure that it handles the stormwater.

And by law, you've heard us say this many times, Councilmember Grant.

We have the right to convey water where it naturally goes.

And in that case, it does naturally go there.

So I think in short, this neighbor has issues.

The red outline on the right is the drainage area that all drains into their property.

A tiny fraction of the drainage comes from us.

Most of the drainage by far comes from everywhere around them.

And we haven't done anything in that drainage area yet.

So does that answer the question?

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

And Chris can tell you a lot more than I can.

If you'd like to no, that touches all of it.

Thank you for the clarity.

Thank you.

Councilmember Kirby and then Steve.

I was going to come on here and light that now.

Okay.

Um I the one who held this up and I met with your developers as well as the people who were protesting it on both sides touching Lindsay, not just the one on the left.

Right.

I do want to address the fact that you are being misleading and that that is on a hill, and them 17 houses do directly dump into that person's property.

And that watershed you're pointing at is the Day Blue Creek, which comes downstream and floods a whole lot of other properties just south.

And we're worried about one area, not the five farmers that are going to be flooded down south.

But we won't talk about this right this second.

The parkland area had to be, it's it's not being plotted till now.

And when I met with the owners, they said they would respect the trees down there in the watershed in the coolant area and make that the lower part of the yards.

But I do want to go back up to address since the homeowners put their trust in me that this was gonna be uh handled, and so did the property owner that you represent, guaranteed me that he would work with the resident who does own livestock and has been there for over 30 years.

So you are becoming his neighbor, it's not opposite.

Y'all y'all need to be playing nice with him because he has lived there for 30 years.

So the water from the 17 houses you're talking about right now goes across land, a land mass.

And as you know, carbon stores in the soil making it to where it can absorb mass amounts of water since it's been um regenerative farm for the last 40 or 50 years, it can hold an extreme amount of uh water.

The second you doze that up, that water is gonna run across it like concrete, it will no longer absorb that water.

The second you put 17 roofs on it, the the rooftops are gonna cover up the grass that used to absorb that water.

The shed in the backyard is going to cover up the grass that used to absorb the water and all the landscaping will cover up the grass that does that water.

Um they were not trying to be vindictive.

I'm pretty sure they filed a petition every single time you've asked for this development.

I'm pretty sure they've they filed a petition.

This wasn't the first time, and you are going to be dumping water on them, and that will affect their property, and they have a pond that is already full, and their bottom part of that land stays wet.

So if you add water flow to them, they may lose five acres of land that they can right now graze on and have been able to for the last 30 years, and they won't be able to now.

So I got them to support this project.

That's why they're not here tonight because I worked hard and ensured that y'all were going to honor and be trustworthy neighbors, and then you just now use the words that you're allowed to dump that water on them.

And you're right, you can let it go across on them, but not at a rate faster than what it is right now.

And when you put them 17 houses in, it will do that.

And I know this because I own two irrigation companies and I've been in construction for 30 years, and I've come behind a lot of developments like this, putting in retaining walls and French drains to capture water to keep people's property from flooding.

So I would just ask when you're in here discussing stuff like this and saying that they don't really have a reason to gripe, they a hundred percent have a reason to gripe.

And they did say they will work with the owner of this property.

So I would be voting yes on this tonight because the homeowners are taking faith in the property owners that y'all are going to work together because he runs very expensive horses and very expensive cattle, and if pollution goes off on them and they do a USDA inspection and it fails, they just lost the livelihood of that farm.

And I would appreciate you just honoring the deal that we made of making sure that everybody works together and that we don't disturb them any more than we possibly have to, if if I don't if I can request that from you, please.

Sure.

I want to make sure you you finish your thoughts.

So maybe you must understand.

That's what I said.

Yes.

They will drain right on them.

Correct.

I said that.

Yes.

Yes.

So the 17 houses, backyards, and rooftops will drain their way.

And to you, it might not be a big deal, but to a farmer who relies on that land, it is a huge deal.

And the fact that they went ahead and came to the table and agreed that they would let the neighborhood come here was I mean, I think that was great that two people were able to meet up and talk about it.

And we had a great conversation, and then you kind of came in here and took digs at them.

And I don't I don't appreciate that.

I I didn't take digs at him.

I was asked a question and I responded to the question with all due respect.

I didn't take any digs.

I was asked a question, I answered, said 17 houses would drain on them.

That is factual.

I answered a question and said you do have the right to drain historically.

You do.

Also, I would say we have to put up silk fencing.

So through the construction process, the city of Norman through their inspectors will make sure that we put up silk fencing all around that property while we're under construction, and we have to seed it and make sure we don't overly seal it beyond that.

So I don't think I misread or miss misled at all, Councilmember.

I would disagree with you.

Are you going to make sure water don't flow at them at any faster of a rate than what it currently is flowing on the existing land?

By law by code, we have to honor that provision.

No, you didn't say different.

I'm just saying you're kind of waving it off like it's not that big a deal.

And I deal with these kind of issues every day in our ward about people saying they're gonna do one thing and then not and then coming in here and acting.

So, like I said, not accusing you of nothing.

All I'm trying to say is the people are putting faith that y'all's gonna make sure their property's not flooded when you build these 17 houses.

I understand that, but I would absolutely disagree with you that I waved off anything and misrepresented anything.

I absolutely disagree with you.

That's our that's your right.

Thank you.

Councilmember Deck and then Steele.

I didn't actually okay.

Sorry, Council Steele and then Bruce.

Uh so as a news or council member, if someone does file a protest letter, like what what process does that look like on your end?

Like, what do you do to alleviate those concerns?

So we look at those concerns and we read the protest, and we just consider whether we can do anything to react to it if we need to react to it.

Uh we don't react to everything, council member.

We don't.

Uh uh it matters as to how relevant that protest is, how applicable it is.

Uh we as a developer have to go forward and develop these properties.

Uh the city of Norman, whether they like it or not, council member has said that this area is to be urban medium density and develop that way.

So we're simply doing that as landowners developing it that way.

We look at the protest letters, see what they say.

Do they have uh concerns that we can address?

Do we need to address them?

And that's how we usually approach it.

And that's usually between you and whoever is protesting.

Like you're not using like the city as a go-between or anything like that.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but we are simply here to seek approval for a plat and zoning, which is the right of every property owner and the city is not a go-between.

You are the decider of whether we get those items approved or not.

I understand.

And then I have uh some questions for Jason, if you don't mind.

So circling back to item number 28 for this uh parkland rezoning.

Um, what are the requirements for parkland dedication for a development?

Thank you for the question.

Jason Olsen, director of parks and recreation.

Hello, everybody.

So when a neighborhood plat does come forward for a development, uh depending on the projected number of residents, uh, they will work with the the parks department to uh come up with part of that development to donate back that certain acre acreage depending on how many number of residents are there, and as they work to that, they usually come back and we go out there and check, make sure the land is suitable, uh, make sure it doesn't have uh too many slopes, make sure it's accessible, uh, make sure it hit hits all the criteria to become a park, and then um it goes to part board, and as long as that's acceptable, the part board will uh make recommendation uh for that to become parkland to you guys.

All right, and then so there's already Bentley Park uh in the area.

So if items 28 and 29 does pass and this area is developed, does Bentley Park still satisfy the requirements for the Bell Tona edition?

Yes, and it does satisfy and uh the preference of us would be just because the way that not only does the parkland dedication du uh works, but also our park impact fees that come along with every development of the house.

We wouldn't want to start splitting uh park impact fees between two parks in in a same contrast um concentrated area.

That would just make it impossible for or very difficult for our uh the park system to work or maintain a park two parks so close together, especially if they're connected to the same neighborhood.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Bruce.

So Mr.

Reger.

I just have a few questions for you on this particular slide.

So I live down in uh Ward 3 Cambridge area.

I'm I'm very familiar with water offloading, you know.

You know, you're talking about the 10 mile creek, boggy creek area and design overcome by events, you know, and just that sort of stuff.

So Boggy Creek, 10 mile creek area, that's gonna come up later in the future.

So please put that on your notes.

But anyway, I was looking at this uh your your slide there as far as uh the one you just had up that you removed.

Do you want the aerial right there?

So I just want to make sure I understand it.

The green area again, the green.

Yeah, so the little green area on the right is and I probably should have Chris come up here and talk more.

This is his graphic if you want.

The green area on the right is the developed street.

Come on up, Chris.

Chris did this graphic.

So yeah, Chris Anderson was SMC engineering stormwater.

Good evening, council members, uh, councilman Bruce.

Yeah, so uh kind of just uh explain the slide a little deeper than then Sean did.

Oh, by the way, I also wanted to point out he said the last time the preliminary plat was approved was 2013, but in the city's timeline was actually approved again in 2020, so six years ago it was approved.

Um the entire drainage basin is shown by that red hatched area and the red outline.

Uh that's the amount of area that's draining down through that creek adjacent to uh the houses there on on the Davis's property.

Uh that's uh 129 acres of land.

So that's why in the pictures in the protest letter, there's a lot of water that's running down through that creek.

That's a large area that drains down through there.

Most of that area right now is is undeveloped.

Uh there is some development.

You can see there to the north, but that whole area drains down through there.

In our calculations for the city of Norman, uh, for an undeveloped area, we use a runoff factor of 0.4.

All right.

For a residential area, we use a runoff factor of 0.7.

So not quite a double increase, but a pretty high increase.

So in our layout there, the green area is currently draining back to the to the west towards the Davis' property.

But after we come in and build our street, even that that red line through there is basically a ridge uh along the street there.

Everything and that's right now, that's the natural condition.

Everything to the west of that drains west back to the east, it drains to the east towards those other trees and those other low areas that you see.

When we come in and put the street in, uh that ridge also kind of na even though it it drains off left and right, it also drains to the south generally.

So when we come in and put the street, that street will pick up that green area and take it south to the first intersection and then back to the west past the Davis's property back into the stream.

So that green area is going to be removed, and I believe that's three.

I've got a I can't see that up there.

I've got it on here.

So that uh area being removed from the drainage area is 3.08 acres.

The purple area that Sean talked about again is the back of the houses, part of the houses and part of the back and all of the backyards of those 17 lots that are in that drainage area.

Those still will drain that direction, and they will have a higher runoff factor of the 0.7.

And so that's 2.23 acres.

When I ran the calculations on that again for that huge basin, uh the before we ran for the Q100, which is the is what the city of Norman has is designed for for the hundred-year flood.

The number we kept for that is in CFS cubic feet per second.

That number was 272.62 CFS.

That's a lot of water comes down through there, obviously through those pictures.

After we remove the portion that is now gonna be going south and not going that way, and added the increased runoff factor for that purple area, the after effect is a Q100 of 272.77 CFS.

So an increase, but a.15 CFS out of 272 CFS.

So very minimal impact.

If there's a problem when we get back, again, this is a preliminary plat.

This isn't detailed construction plans with the final plat.

If we get to that point on the final plat, and there's a problem with the city, and they say no, we can't increase that point one five, then there are some things that we could do to mitigate that.

So and the developer will incorrect.

I'm not following you there.

So when I look at this, and I'm thinking, you know, area space, you know, area in the curve and all that good stuff, trying to find the area.

I'm thinking, well, there'd be really less runoff given that green space is going south.

Less runoff going west.

If the west, the area under the purple, well, it's really less runoff.

But we have the roof, but we have to increase the runoff factor.

Yeah.

Increase was from 0.4 to 0.7.

So that's why there ended up being, even though we removed some area, we had one area of increase runoff.

So that's why there was a slight increase again.

The area of the increased runoff is from what?

From what?

I mean, are you are you the rooftops and sidewalks?

Okay.

So you mean you tell me the roof?

You mean you tell me the roof, the roof, these other structures that may be the CMA, the other structure that's in the purple area is actually an increase.

When you take consideration the green area and all the floats going south.

By 0.15 CFS out of 272.

Okay.

I mean, if that's what you're modeling.

Okay.

Yeah.

Just uh there's also detention ponds in this area.

If I saw the pictures right in the in the addition, and there's green space, is that correct?

There is green space, that's correct, yes.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Council member Grant.

Yes, uh I have a question for staff.

Uh I'd like to recognize Scott Sturz.

Um on the staff side of things, when this gets built out, we'll be doing um quality control checks, I take it, to make sure that it's built according to the approved plans.

Yeah, Scott Surge Direct Public Works.

That's exactly right.

Uh, we actually have inspectors that this is what they do.

They go out and they inspect these neighborhoods while they're being built.

They make sure it's built per the plans and specifications.

So they're out there watching the roads be built, they're watching the storm sewer and the sanitary sewer be put in place.

Uh, they're doing checks, they're running uh tests to make sure that all the materials meet the requirements of the city of Norman, and then in the end, we wind up getting all that information.

So when when we get ready to bring it back to you as a final plat, which means that's when we bring it back to you and you say yes, go file it, and they can start selling lots.

When we do that, we have all that information in it at hand and we get a report from staff that says that they have met all the requirements, and then the development committee, which is made up of staff members, looks over it, approves it, and then it comes forward to you for final approval.

But we do check all those items, yes, ma'am.

And that final plat would be on consent or off consent.

That's typically on consent because at that point you've already approved preliminary plat.

We've already known what the neighborhood should look like and what the requirements are.

And now all we're doing is saying that basically when you read those staff reports, uh, it'll say it's met the requirements of preliminary plat and it meets all city code standards as been inspected and meets final inspection.

Okay, and then um when it comes to enforcement during the construction phase on silt fencing, what is that process like?

Okay, that's really now uh more of in the utilities area than it is under me, but having done that in the past, uh we do go out, we do inspections routinely uh at least once a month.

I think they may be higher than that now, and they do go out and they check that and they they notify the owners of any uh issues that need to be repaired or any problems that they find with the silt fence or with any of the other sediment control.

It's not always silt fence, it might be a silt dike, it may be a sedimentation basin, but they do go out and check those, and then we always push for getting uh grass down, uh vegetation growing to help slow down that water.

Um we see a lot uh in these neighborhoods where during construction there's a ton of water that comes off.

We're hearing a lot about flooding adjacent neighbors, and then as soon as it's built and the grass that homes are built and the grass comes in, we that that starts to lessen because we can actually the grass helps hold some of that on those backyards and helps it soak in.

And then Councilmember Grant, to that point, the developer's engineer prepares that they prepare a stormwater pollution prevention plan and an erosion control plan.

Uh Michelle Aldenbeck and her team are the group that go out there and ensure that what the developer's engineer supply is what's being adhered to.

And then you know, just to get it out there and to maybe a Swedish fears.

Uh, if the developer weren't to follow the process or not be in compliance, um, they can't really proceed until they come into compliance, correct?

That's correct.

Basically, we would not bring it forward to you to council until we had so we do the full inspection and we watch all of it during the construction process.

At the end of the construction process, we do a final walk through and we check all those items that we don't think meet or that need uh further assessment or need to be be addressed.

Uh then we go out and we do another inspection, and then we don't even bring it forward until everything is met and we feel that it meets uh the plans as drawn.

All right.

Um those are all the questions I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Seeing no further questions from council, this is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item.

Madam Clerk, are there any public comments?

Yes.

Um Marguerite Larson.

Marguerite Larson Warts X.

I am um beware, Trey.

That's all I'm saying.

Um I am very concerned about habitat, and I am concerned about green space, and I am really concerned that it's only seven houses.

It's only seven houses, it's not that big of a deal.

Everything will be fine.

So my concern is, and I understand that that people want to develop their property.

My concern is when is enough enough?

When do we start protecting the environment, and when do we start protecting what is giving us our natural resources in favor of development?

So that's my question to you.

I would be very leery, because I do believe that people tell you what you want to hear, it's like a salesman coming to your door, they'll tell you anything you want to hear, just buy the product.

So those are my concerns is that there is absolutely no protection for this green space or for the people that live there.

Thank you.

Um Floyd Carroll.

Um he's no longer present.

He left.

Okay.

Anyone else from the audience who has not spoken that would like to speak on this item.

Cindy Rogers Ward 4.

Um so I've made this comment before.

I'll just keep bringing it up until we um uh address the our our uh regulations which talks about rate of flow and not volume of flow.

And we've had this issue before.

Potts farm, I think we're familiar with.

So you can flood your neighbor more often more times, and that can cause lots of damage.

And I hope that we can get around to talking about not just how fast, but how much water is displaced on neighbors, because I think that's the thing we continue to miss.

Um, and we saw that in many places in Norman.

And I don't know how to, I don't know why the aim plan didn't really take that up.

Um, but that's that's an issue about how much water is displaced, not just controlling how fast.

Um, because if you're getting water leaked on you three times as often as you were before, that's gonna cause damage, whether you're farming or your backyard or whatever you're doing.

So that's my concern with this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Rodney Johnson Ward 2, and I'd like to welcome my new council member.

Um, and I appreciate your speaking with me at my door when you were running for office.

No one else ever did that running for council.

Okay, on this issue, I think you're right, Mr.

Kirby.

Um I think that the uh presenter to me as a non-partial person just looking at this definitely through the homeowners under the bus.

They will even admit that the the rate off of those seven houses is going to increase on to the person's property, the the flow of water.

Um not only that, from what I understand, listening to the conversation, once this preliminary plat is approved, the city has only their only responsibility is to make sure that what you approved on the preliminary plat happens.

So if that water flow continues, and you approve this preliminary plat, it's my understanding, and I could be wrong, might want to ask them that as long as they follow those instructions, that's it.

So until they work with this homeowner to make sure that there's not going to be added runoff, um, I think you should vote no.

And I definitely do not think that you should allow them to uh to say we'll just fix it, because they won't.

Let's face it, if they wanted to fix it, they would have fixed it already.

What they don't want to do is they don't want to spend the extra money to fix it.

And you know, I don't know, they got bean counters.

I don't know if it's uh uh feasible for them financially, but the point of the matter is if you app if you have way I understand it, if you approve this plat, that homeowner is screwed, and there's nothing that they can do about it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Miami Winlayer board two.

So okay.

Eagle Cliff, those backyards where they were eroding, and basically those homeowners are losing property because it's eroding away.

So along this west line, uh what mitigations are gonna be put in place to prevent those backyards from falling down that that hill.

Um I mean, there's that side of it.

There's also on the sorry uh the the Davis farms.

Um what effect is that gonna have if you know dirt comes rolling down because you know you're taking away the existing vegetation, and so that's what's keeping the ground there.

Um another thing that I found interesting in the protest letter is they have a bull like a 1,500 pound bull that's gonna be romping around.

Um and the protest letter, uh they're asking for you know, adequate fencing, you know what's gonna happen with that, and if there's families that are gonna be living around here, children are curious and they are stupid, and they are gonna want to go and play with the animals, and that could be dangerous.

Um's responsibility is that you know, if the Davis properties, they say no trespassing, but a child jumps the fence or whatever.

Where's the recourse there?

That's it.

Thanks.

Thank you.

All right, are there any final comments from council regarding this item?

Seeing none, and just to be clear, this item is the parkland uh the parkland issue, and then item 29 is a companion item uh for the zoning part, uh, the preliminary plat part.

So uh any single final comments here.

Okay, all right.

Then the motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading, section by section.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

Okay, all votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section passes unanimously.

All right, and I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

The motion on the floor is to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All right, item 29 is again a companion item, but a consideration of awarding acceptance, approval, rejection, amendment, and/or postponement of uh preliminary plat 25 26-16 for Bellatona edition, generally located between State Highway 9 and East Lindsay's East Lindsay Street, east of 36th Avenue Southeast in Ward 5.

I'll entertain a motion to approve or reject the preliminary plat.

And uh the representative already made the presentation about it.

Are there any for the engineer?

So on what uh one of the count a couple of the people just brought up in the crowd, it does increase the flow by just a smidge.

Um have y'all taken an effect like there any way to reduce it to less than and not more than would you be willing to add in French drains or something at the bottom to divert it to keep it from going onto their property?

I can't answer that for the developer.

I know that he promised that he would work with you and work with the landowner when we got to the final plats and the construction plans.

All right, this is for Mr.

Reger.

Yes, sir.

Same question since you are advisor or do you just do this portion or will you be there during the portion of working with the property owners?

So when it gets to final plat, it's just the engineers.

We we uh in fact, when it's just a preliminary plot, typically we're not even involved in a preliminary plat.

So it would be the engineers and basically Chris's firm that would carry it through on final plates would you be back to present on a final plat?

No, you rarely, I think maybe one or two in my career.

Uh final plat is just implementing the preliminary plat.

The preliminary plat is implementing the ordinances of the city and meeting the ordinances unless we've asked for a variance, which we have not here.

And from your understanding, this won't be built in the next five years anyway, they're just working that way as it grows.

Yeah, this is probably the final phase, I would think.

Yeah, this is that this started in 2003, 23 years ago, and we're only about halfway up the mile, so I it's gonna be a long time, I would think.

And then I have one more question, but it's for Mr.

Stewart.

Yes, sir.

I am currently dealing with an issue in Ward 5 by people not following the screen tilting, the type of gravel, uh everything you listed is not being um the rules aren't being followed, and they're coming repeatedly, week in, week out, day in, day out, asking for enforcement, and nothing is happening.

So, what can guarantee me that if I pass this that y'all are going to make sure the silt fencing is put up?

How do I know?

Because right now, everything you promised to happen is not happening on another job.

So I mean, I don't want to make a mistake that's darn already been made previously.

Okay, and again, I'm not over the uh the erosion control inspections in that group right now, so I can't really answer that directly.

Uh but I do know that we work hard with those groups.

Uh those are items that are hard to maintain, they do require constant maintenance.

Uh so I I can't make that guarantee.

Because it's not your department.

Yeah.

Uh can I have Mr.

Maddenly?

Thank you, Scott.

Chris Mattingley, Utilities Director, the doers group.

I mean, we we walk a balance.

We really want people just to do the right thing, like you're asking.

And so we try to work with them, show them what we need them to do.

Sometimes they get upset and they come in and gripe against us that we're being too mean to them, but we do try to tell them that this has to be done.

If there's red dirt in the street, red dirt on your neighbor's car or on their porch, it's not doing it right.

So you gotta do better.

Do you issue fines?

Do you make them clean it up?

I mean, what exactly comes of the situation?

When it's when it gets down to that, we we write a mean letter and say next is coming a fine or something more if unless you get this fixed.

And so we stay after them.

It's it's trying to be uh enforcement's tough, you know.

You know.

Thank you, sir.

Council member.

Uh yes.

Um, and this is for city manager Pyle.

Um developers come to complain at the end of the day.

Uh yes, in terms of the policy about how we go about enforcing and ensuring compliance with those uh engineered submitted solutions to prevent that kind of runoff during construction.

Um, and we have several examples uh where uh even years after the project was complete that the solutions they had provided had failed, and we'd gone back and ensured compliance and had developers come back and reconstruct stormwater detention solutions that didn't live up to the expectations or what the engineers had promised.

So it it's a purpose and a function that we remain active in, and that actually was the driving force behind the the formation of the doers group was to be uh proactive, educational, but uh our city attorney will also indicate that we you know press charges against people for failing to uh comply with what they submitted.

Um, and I'm not suggesting we go zero to sixty on the first offense, but um I think if we have a list of frequent offenders that we might shorten the duration or number of attempts to come into compliance.

Um I'm a I'm aware there are issues with different developers in all the wards, um, but that is something that we get to control, and I just want to point that out for council member Kirby.

And just for us to recognize all of the easy places in Norman to build, we've already built done.

So where we are currently developing inside the 48s generically, there's a lot of hillsides, there's a lot of red dirt.

Uh, it is becoming more and more challenging to keep that soil on site during uh the development process, which just means sorry, it's gonna be a little more expensive, uh may require sodd, it may require additional technologies to be employed to ensure that red dirt doesn't wind up on your roads or making its way into our our streams.

So full-time job, we've got four full-time employees, that's how they spend the line share of their day.

All right, thank you.

Thank you okay.

All right, this is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item.

Remarks should be directed to council only.

Once public comments have concluded, council may choose to answer your questions.

Um again, this is a companion item to the previous item, so uh your comments might be similar.

So but this is an opportunity for additional public comments.

Are there any uh registered for this item?

Yes, uh Cindy Rogers, Marguerite Larson Mayumi Windler.

Same same story, second first.

Okay, that's all.

Okay, anyone else from the audience who wasn't signed up that would like to speak, all right.

One more thing.

I had a conversation with a council member, and the discussion was about how many places in Norman where a plat has been approved, and then that area was done totally different than what was approved here at City Council.

It seems that I guess that is a continuing problem.

So there is obviously a problem with enforcement.

So I think it's it's time, like uh Miss Grant said, that uh you take more of a firmer control about how enforcement is done and what is in the preliminary plat.

So if you want to approve this, my suggestion would be somebody to make an amendment that the engineering has to be done where the property owner will not have extra water flow onto their property, and you do that when you approve this plat, then it will force them to do something.

The engineer just told you that they may possibly be able to fix this problem.

So if they don't want to fix a problem, make them come back and bring it to you after they've spoken with the the homeowner.

So if you allow companies like this, I mean, listen, I don't blame them.

They're a company, and they're in the business to make money and to make profit.

So if they can ignore what you're trying to say and what you're doing, they'll ignore it.

If you approve this, I guarantee they won't fix it.

That property owner will have water coming onto their property, extra water.

And look, I used to live out by the lake.

There's a big problem with water coming on to your property, especially if uh places where it may be county where people don't even have any say about it.

So ward five has a lot of unique problems, and uh I think that it's time that we start uh addressing some of those problems and at least helping them out because they don't let's face it, they don't get all of the benefits that the city has to offer like I do here in the city.

So um I don't know.

I think you should just make it if they're if you wanted to prove this, that's fine.

Um we do need more housing, I agree, but uh I would just add an amendment to the preliminary plat that forces them to make sure that no more extra water runs off their property into an area where the um city has already said that is important in case we have the hundred year flood.

So their property is very already very important, it's gonna take a lot of water in that hundred year flood.

And how do we know when the hundred year flood's gonna happen?

Could happen next week.

How did we know that they were gonna hit get hundred mile straight straight line winds a couple of weeks ago or last week?

We we didn't know.

So um I think the council needs to uh take a forward looking approach and uh make sure the property owners protected because they are protecting a lot of Norman residents by allowing their property to be one where if a hundred year flood comes along, they're gonna take a huge hit from that.

And I'm sure they know it.

So it's our responsibility to protect them because they're protecting us and force a corporation or a company that has the money to do it to do it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Please come forward.

But two weeks from tonight.

I mean, there's miscellaneous comments tonight.

If you'd like to speak about the shelter, you're welcome to.

Seeing no further comments or questions regarding this item.

Seeing none.

Okay.

The motion on the floor is to approve the preliminary plat.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

There we go.

Okay, there we go.

All votes have been cast.

And the motion passes with the vote of seven to one voting against council member Kirby.

Okay.

Staff has requested that item 31 be heard before item 30, since item 30 isn't needed if item 31 fails.

If there is no objection, we'll consider item 34 or 31 first.

And seeing no objection.

Okay.

All right.

Item 31 is a resolution amending the aim normman comprehensive land use plan to remove the 30-acre urban reserve land use minimum requirement for development.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the resolution.

I'd like to recognize Laura Hoggett, Planning Services Manager to make a presentation.

Laura Hoggett with the planning department.

Um so the um acreage requirement in the urban reserve area during the aim process was a hot topic.

The steering committee spent a lot of time kind of discussing what they wanted to see in this area.

So 30 was chosen to help preserve large tracts of land for coordinated long-term planning and to discourage premature development in this area.

However, since the adoption, it has come up that perhaps this is limiting flexibility for development in this area and maybe not allowing people to split up their land in the way that they have historically been able to.

Yeah, I'd just like to say that to the people that served on the AIM committee.

Split it up, and then all of a sudden they were told no, you gotta pick your favorite or whatever to be able to give it to now.

So I really for that reason I think that we're still trying to follow the AIM project through and to its completion and try to watch out for those things, but just for the residents out there, ward five, I think it's in the last three people that have said in ward five, all three of them wanted the 10 acres back and everything.

So in honor of them.

Okay.

Count uh anybody else have questions?

Councilmember Steele.

Just so I know the historical implications of this.

Did it used to be at 10 and then it went up to 30?

And then now it's going back to 10.

So this is putting it back where it was before the change.

When AIM was adopted, it made it just in this area where the urban reserve is 30.

It's not all of East Norman.

It's just this kind of sorry, it's kind of just a chunk.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And I think agree the intent uh from the committee was 30 acres would make it more difficult to develop, ideally make it more difficult to develop urban city elements and would more likely keep it rural.

Uh but as we mentioned, there's been some complications perhaps a lot of existing land out there that people have owned for a long time that they would like to use in a way that's still rural but wouldn't work under the 30.

So I was the same way initially supportive of that, thinking, well, this is a great way to pretty much restrict development in rural Norman and uh for you know for the foreseeable future.

Um, but we've definitely seen some complications with people that have uh slightly less than 30 or whatever, and um people that have owned those properties for a long time.

So I think it's a good change to make, and I think it still will serve the purpose of protecting the rural area like we want, and uh the goal to be making better use of the existing space that we've already developed, that we've already widened the roads that we've already put in the pipes, make better use of that existing space and preserve our rural areas.

What I believe the goal is and what I support.

So council were grant.

Yes.

Um it was the intent intent of aim to make development harder to do, and some of the things that were part of the 30-acre rule are still applicable here as far as uh water and sewer connection.

So it's in the character area, the 2045 reserve, I think is what it's called, character area that you still have to connect to services to develop to do the cluster development or to have a land use change essentially.

So in this area, that develop um infrastructure would be kind of cost prohibitive given the cost of concrete and other things depending on who it is, I guess.

I guess that they have money if anything's possible.

Um I just want to say that I'm supportive of it going to 10 because originally it had been 10 and it was with the intent of not building out this area.

Um and in doing this, I it does not mean that I support another change in the future to for anything that's non-conforming, like a two-acre parcel.

Um I believe that the 10 acres is still appropriate.

Any other comments or questions from council?

Council Murra Kirby.

I just wanted to point out that by having the 30-acre.

There's over 600 people losing their homes right now to the turnpike that would like to continue to stay in Norman.

And the last time the city of Norman bought a 30-acre property, I think it was 28 acres.

We paid a little over 800,000, which is unfeasible for the average uh person.

I'd also like to point out how we're trying to do affordable housing, and I don't see how it'd be possible for somebody who's 29, 30, just out of school, out of college, um, to be able to buy a 30-acre track at 800,000.

So that whole area was originally taken 112,000 acres, was originally taken in 1965 through a Supreme Court ruling to protect um from development.

And once again, um I'm with the other council members going back to this actually will protect our land more than what the current AIM plan does, and it'll also give the opportunity to people who are suffering from the turnpike uh authority still in their land will actually still be able to stay right here in Norman.

Um so once again, I'm heavy in support of this 10 acre rule because it preserves Ward 5 like it was supposed to.

Thank you.

All right.

All right, this is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item.

Remarks should be directed to council only, and once public comments have concluded, council may choose to answer your questions.

Madam Clerk, are there any speakers register for this item?

Yes, Billy Harless Billy Harless, um 5401 Element Street Ward 5.

Um thank you, Mayor and uh counsel for taking this in consideration.

I did have a letter that I sent uh to all the council members, and if you have any questions about that, I'd be glad to answer that.

I'm glad to see that this looks like it's gonna move forward to uh the 10 acres.

Um it is uh when I bought my 20 acres, my intent was to split it someday and maybe split it and have it for a family member, and that's still my intent.

And and I was uh, as some of you may know, I lost my house at a tornado and busy doing this, and I was just really surprised by the lack of notification on this.

I know that the aim plan was well advertised, I know all that, but I didn't dream in a in a million years it would go from 10 to 30 acres.

And should something like this happen in the future, I think with GIS the ability to send out emails just by doing a geofence and sending those out to notify property owners um that this is that something like this is gonna affect their property value in such a negative way is really uh save a lot of trouble.

And I myself would have been able to go down and uh because I was gonna split it anyway, been able to do that before that went into effect.

And so um I'll be glad to answer any questions, and I I do appreciate y'all's service to the community.

So thank you, Mr.

Harless.

Thank you.

What else I'm sorry?

Sorry.

Um Ben Plummer Don't see Cindy Rogers, Cindy Rogers, still ward four, but I love ward five.

Um all of Norman.

So I was on the AIM housing subcommittee, and um, you know, it's just like one of two voices that oppose um the 30-acre rule, because what it actually did was allowed you know one acre or two-acre development.

Um it would have only been valuable for somebody to come in and do a housing development, and um not an individual to build a home, and it obviously took rights away um from people.

And and I think the most disturbing thing was I asked, I said, all these people whose zoning is gonna be changed.

Have you notified them?

And I was stunned that the answer was no, we don't have to.

And I think that's just wrong.

You can't just change what people can do on their property without telling them.

If it was a neighbor doing something and they were within a 350 uh yard feet, whatever it is, radius, you would tell them.

So I think the process how this got re rezoned in the AIM plan without engaging the peoples whose properties were going to be impacted, which is wrong.

And I hope we never do that again.

Um I'm in favor of the 10 acres because that will actually uh reserve uh well.

I think I think it will preserve the rural character better.

Um I still am plugging that we call it a rural reserve and not urban reserve because before the AIM plan, and I'm gonna say the turnpike, that was supposed to be preserved as rural um Norman to protect our watershed.

So I feel like, and I was involved in the process of calling it urban reserve was a little bit of a bait and switch.

I think that was a little sneaky thing put in there, like we're preserving it for urban development when the intent was to preserve the rural part of our community, which makes Norman special.

So I'm in favor of this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Marguerite Larson.

That's all.

Anyone else from the audience that has not spoken that would like to, please.

Brandon Novar, Ward 5.

So Mayor, Council.

I just want to let you know, since several of you are fairly new that I was the one that actually started this about 10 months ago ish.

And as soon as I sat down on the dice, I was approached by a couple families immediately that were coming up here and expressing the exact same problems that other people have said.

They wanted to divide their land in the future between their kids, and they were no longer able to.

And I told them I would see what I could do, and that would start me down the rabbit hole of research.

And the more I learned, the more I realized what the 30-acre rule was actually about.

It's in the name actually, urban reserve.

They want to stop families from dividing land into parcels too small to develop at a later date.

And I know this for a fact because it says in the staff report, and I quote, the 30-acre minimum was intended to preserve large tracts of land for coordinated long-term planning and to discourage premature or fragmented development in the area of Norman.

That is antithetical to the character of Ward 5.

And it's bad for multiple reasons.

First, sprawl, as all of you know or will soon learn.

We have a terrible problem with supporting our current infrastructure and the added stresses would just be terrible of additional sprawl.

Second, and even worse, is we're talking about the Thunderbird watershed.

We need to minimize the impermeable surfaces and going back to the 10 acre rule would absolutely do that.

It would completely help that out.

And then lastly, the 10 acre rule preserves the character of Ward 5.

People move out to the rural parts for a reason.

They want to get away and 10 acres versus 30 acres that can be subdivided into two-acre tracts really helps that out as well.

And so with this information and reasoning in front of you, both helping families and quantifiable problems, such as stopping sprawl and protecting the watershed, I will be asking that you vote yes on this item, returning the 30-acre rule back to a 10-acre rule.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm sorry, uh, Mayumi, I skipped you.

When Lyra War II, yeah, I wasn't sure if I had which things I had said I wanted to talk about.

So on this one, the naming is confusing.

Urban reserve, but it's word five, and that's just that doesn't make sense to me.

So I'm just kind of wondering, is this gonna happen again to another chunk of land somewhere where oh now we want this other piece to be some other strange name that doesn't really seem to fit, and we're gonna put limits or increase limits on that.

Um yeah, I just wonder is this gonna happen again with like the next land use plan that comes across.

And should there be guardrails on that?

Thanks.

Thank you.

Anyone else who would like to speak on this item that has not spoken on this item?

Okay.

All right, any final comments from council on this item?

Um just wonder is this gonna happen again with like the next land use plan that comes across and should there be guardrails on that thank you anyone else who would like to speak on this item that has not spoken on this item okay all right any final comments from council on this item council McKirby do just want to point out that there is only 50 30 acre plots in Norman is that correct okay thank you in that area so I mean we're talking about 50 50 properties that this is I also think the urban reserve should be called rural preserve um as well and um again at the on the face of it one house per 30 the 30 acre rule says to me you can have one house per 30 acres where one house per 10 acres means 30 acres you could have three houses is how I viewed that so the way I was viewing it definitely last year was by increasing it to 30 that's drastically limiting how many houses someone could fit um in a square mile um and then any property could be any property owner can come forward and request a rezoning of any property in all of Norman to do whatever they want and then it's up to us to approve it or not but again I think the the most salient point is people who have owned property uh potentially for many decades multi-generational that have uh had plans or interest in um having 20 acres like mr harless and dividing that into two and um for whatever reasons uh notification and different things like that which I agree we need to improve upon um in future uh processes like that to make sure people are notified and have ample opportunity to make adjustments before the deadline type of thing so I think this is a good move to change this back um the 10 acre rule worked very well for a long time I think and um has done really good at preserving a lot of rural East Norman and would allow uh people like Mr.

Harless to um hopefully do what they've intended to do with the property that they've owned so that is uh my comments on that and I'm seeing no further comments so the motion on the floor is to adopt the resolution council members you may cast your votes or guess hold on we got a reset here okay here we go all votes have been cast and the motion to adopt the resolution passes by a vote of seven to one voting against council member Dixon.

All right item 30 is an ordinance amending chapter 30 subdivisions of the code uh section 30-606A to remove the 30 acre minimum lot size requirement for rural certificates of survey with an urban reserve land use designation I'll entertain a motion to adopt and again this is a companion item to this previous one I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section motion to adopt this is a companion item to the previous item are there any comments from council seeing none okay this is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item madam clerk are there any public comments yes Billy Harless Ben Plummer sorry Cindy Rogers Marguerite Marguerite Larson Mayumi okay anyone that didn't sign up that would like to speak on this item okay there are there any final comments from council on this item seeing none okay the motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section council members you may cast your votes did it do it hold on hold on okay still saying that okay hold on we'll get that thing look clear that was not clear okay okay I think we're good try it now didn't work all votes have been cast and the motion to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section passes by a vote of seven to one voting against council member dixon okay I'll entertain a motion to adopt reject the ordinance on final reading motion to adopt the motion on the floor is to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading council members you may cast your votes all votes have been cast and the motion to adopt the ordinance on final reading passes by a vote of seven to one voting against council member dixon all right last item is miscellaneous comment and script isn't here but do we have anyone signed up for miscellaneous comments yes Ben Plummer not here Cindy Rogers

All votes have been cast.

And the motion to adopt the ordinance on final reading passes by a vote of seven to one voting against council member Dixon.

All right.

Last item is miscellaneous comment.

Do we have anyone signed up for miscellaneous comments?

Yes.

Ben Plummer.

Not here.

Cindy Rogers.

Still Cindy Rogers still Ward 4, still love Ward 5.

Um I I guess I just want to reiterate that enforcement is is an issue and construction zones.

So uh Jenkins Avenue.

I was going back and forth lots of times, taking my daughter to law school a couple times a day.

That was a city project, but dust control was terrible.

Um I mean I called it in a few times, but I we just need to do better on that.

Um I think you give people incentives to follow the rules.

You can have fines.

You could have fines that increase with the number, and then you can have a stop project.

And because if you just ask people nicely and they don't do it, what do you expect?

So I hope we can consider doing that.

Another thing about fines is when people have to show up multiple times.

That's city workers, it's city time, that's money, so we could at least get reimbursed for for that.

So I hope we could think about doing that to help with construction runoff and uh the dust, the particulates in the air.

Again, Jenkins was a mess.

Um, and I always felt bad because that was a city project.

Figure we should have a higher standard for our own projects.

Um, maybe.

Uh I will say that OU is actually quite good on their projects.

I call the guy and he gets it fixed right away.

Um, so that's one area where where they they do better than the city on their construction projects.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I know that is a city project, but it is funded with federal funds, so I think ODOT might be administering it.

So yes, definitely that's a still we should be enforcing that.

Gary King.

Gary King Ward 5.

Um, this is a subject that was just brought up well ago about uh storm drainage runoff on a project that was built next to my home by Western farmers and OEC, and was told that this would be built in two months, 60 days, and they started April 1st, and they're still out there, and it looks like they're gonna be there for a while, and they're out there on weekends.

I don't know if you've ever heard tractors with beeping backup noises on their tractors, but there's usually about three of them out there at a time, and they've been out there on Saturdays and Sundays when I'm trying to enjoy the weekend with my family, dust blowing all of my vehicles, my house.

Um now they have diverted the water, they have built up that pad up that 300 foot pad, 300 foot wide pad, and left an eight-foot ditch between me and them for the water that used to run through there, and it doesn't go to the ditch.

And I'm wondering on that plan, does it show where that water is supposed to go?

Because it's going on me.

And it's compromising my um lateral lines now.

It's starting to wash my topsoil off.

It's tilting in red dirt and mud on my property and in my ditch.

I can't even mow my ditch because I'll sink in the mud.

Um Patrick Grace stood up here and said that they were good stewards, and that they would take care of any problem that was brought before them, that they have been here in Norman, and they would not uh they would be here to take care of any problems.

I approached the project manager out there about this situation.

He said he couldn't help me talk to the city of Norman about it.

That's not doing any good because I've been told that y'all can't do anything about it, that it's a civil matter, and it's not a civil matter.

Because the first thing when a builder gets a permit to build a project, that's the first thing they look at is the site to make sure the water is not draining off on someone else's property.

And I know some of you have seen pictures of this water that's coming on my property, and we've not had rains like we usually do.

And I'm afraid when we do uh I'm gonna have some serious problems in my front yard, and my lateral lines are probably gonna have to be removed or or something, but um, I think the city needs to step up and do a little bit more control out there on this project and taking care of what is going on out there because it seems to me that they can just do whatever they want.

And they have not missed very many uh there's not been very many rain days that's caused them to carry this on so long, and I can't see that they're gonna have this finished probably within another month, maybe more.

So it's it's taken they've taken my whole summer with nothing but noise, sometimes seven days a week, and I think something needs to be done about it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Marguerite Larson Mayumi Windler.

Hello again, Miami Windler Award 2.

Uh, okay, so I guess that was item number 27, the streets grant program thing.

Um, I'm just wondering.

Um, has there any you know been any kind of program, any kind of grant like that in the past, or is this just a brand new thing?

Um, because it would be really good if we could get that, and it would really help.

Hopefully, it would help people that are currently hanging out on Reed Avenue.

Um again, I would like to know if there are any kind of statistics on how many people are being helped by you know um city care, the the shelter.

How many people are actually getting into permanent housing?

Um just like with the the animal shelter statistics.

I don't need names, I just want numbers of who is coming in, who is going out, what value are we getting for the money.

Thanks.

Thank you.

The council oversight committee in June did uh get an update from I think it was yeah, it was last month.

I got an update from City Care, um, a quarterly update about shelter numbers and rehousing and um all the different individuals that have been served this year.

So I think multiple contractor updates.

Council Mr.

Grant, if you'd like to.

Um, the unhoused information page, which is just easier to Google, honestly, has all the contractor updates that gives the statistics for age, uh demographic, disabilities, you know, all that, and the number of people that are being helped, along with um each of these reports will have specific unnamed individuals and their situation and how specific, let's say if it's the VA and they need to be connected to their benefits in order to get housing.

They'll talk about those scenarios.

Again, you can find that on the unhoused shelter information page that the city keeps.

Thank you.

Scott Lambert.

Good evening.

My name's Scott Lambert.

I'm the majority owner of the Nown Hotel, and I own a property next door at a 534 South University Boulevard.

I mean also it's which is located in the wonderful Ward 4.

Council Member Grant, you did a great job.

Um I want to thank the mayor, council members, city staff, and the Norman community for this opportunity to speak tonight.

Those straight wins were brutal.

Okay, they were absolutely brutal.

They took out a lot of businesses and a lot of residents, and it was a sad situation.

And for uh sad situation for three days.

We had some of the examples that were out were Blue Moon Sushi, Mickey Z, Midway Delhi, of course, the Nown Hotel.

We were out for three days.

Even our homeless shelter downtown and Norman PD and Emergency Operations Center and even the Westwood Complex were down for a substantial amount of time.

Norman faces both an immediate and long-term challenge.

The reliability and future capacity of our power grid.

I'm hoping to start a public conversation to give everybody support to move this forward so we can become a great city.

Or we are a great city, but to be even more so.

One of the most important steps in ensuring a reliable power infrastructure is for Norman citizens to approve a franchise agreement with OGE.

This is more than a contract, it's a partnership that will help us prepare for both today's needs and tomorrow's opportunities.

A strong partnership allows us to continue investing in things that make Norman exceptional.

A thriving arts community, strong social services, vibrant festivals, events and events, successful local businesses, great restaurants, excellent health care, world-class education, and outstanding quality of life.

The future of Norman is incredibly bright.

I wish you could talk to the people I get to talk to the now hotel.

People are excited about Norman.

So we need to prepare for success.

Demographic trends show that our city and the University of Oklahoma are positioned for significant growth over the next 75 years.

Consider this.

This is incredible.

Texas has approximately 32 million residents today.

It is projected to approach 93 million by the year 2100.

As that growth continues, more students and families will look to Norman and the University of Oklahoma for education, opportunity, and a place to call home.

The question isn't whether growth is coming, the question is whether we'll be ready for it.

That starts with investing in the infrastructure that supports every resident and every business currently and for future generations.

Reliable electric service is one of the foundations of a successful and modern city.

There's a quote that has inspired me tremendously and numerous generations of leaders.

A society grows great when old men and women plant trees whose shade they will never they shall never sit in.

That's what we need to be doing.

This is exactly what this movement represents.

The decisions we make today are not just for us, they are for our children, our grandchildren, future OU students and their families, future entrepreneurs, future employers, and every person who will one day choose to call Norman home.

Tonight I encourage all of us, our city council, our wonderful city staff, OGE, local businesses, and our residents to come together with a shared vision.

This franchise agreement provides a framework for OGE to continue serving Norman and investing in the infrastructure that supports our community.

More importantly, it creates an opportunity to strengthen the long-term partnership between the city of Norman and OGE and to work together for the long-term of the long-term planning needs to support future growth and reliability and capacity.

One thing is certain as Norman continues to grow and evolve, we must continue investing in the infrastructure that supports our community.

Let's seize this opportunity to strengthen our partnership, plan for the future, and ensure Norman remains one of the strongest, most resilient, and most vibrant cities in Oklahoma for generations to come.

I hope people that are listening, I don't know where the camera is, but please reach out to me as a community and let's see if we can do something about this power situation in Core Norman and Campus Corner and around the whole city.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

That's all.

All right.

Anyone else that has not spoken that wasn't signed up that would like to speak?

Please come up.

Billy Drew Award 5.

Last week in the planning commission, there was a man up there that has been going five years trying to get a project done so he could build a business.

Five years the city's been fighting him because he altered his site plan.

This is the site plan presented by Western farmers to this city council for approval of the rezoning.

When they walked out that door, they threw that away.

This is the site plan that was given to Stormwater for approval.

And I approved it.

We've had nothing but a mess out there.

Section 36201, the code of City of Norman says it has to be built by the site plan.

Why is it not?

Who is checking on this?

We've had a mess.

We've had more problems.

We don't have a water retention pond because they said they want to put one in.

That's an inch and a quarter rain.

Inch and a quarter rain.

Inch and a quarter rain.

This is out in the street.

On an inch and a quarter rain.

We don't have what are we gonna do about that.

I'd ask the city to uh stop all the work on this project.

Make them start over redoing their zoning, whatever it is, and this time tell the truth and present what they want to build, not what they want you to believe they're gonna build and go believe, go build whatever they want to build.

Thank you.

Anyone else uh thank you.

Um my name is Sue Sanders Ward 4, and um I'm not speaking against anything just on behalf of the homeowners in the food and shelter vicinity regarding the new um proposed shelter.

I bought my house there in 96.

It was a really nice neighborhood.

I wanted to settle there for the rest of my life.

When food and shelter was built in 2018, noise trash and traffic became a problem.

Uh things got worse in 24.

Well, I lived across from the shelter.

I was physically assaulted, my car was bashed in.

I was verbally threatened with rape from a couple of men on the other side of the road.

Another guy exposed his genitals in my front yard for several hours, preventing me and my daughter from leaving the house.

The man was peering in the windows and pounding on the door.

Also, it took a while for me to receive help, um, though I called 911.

Um these were some of the dangers I encountered.

Um I was fearing for my life, and though I had to blow my retirement savings, I felt I had to move elsewhere.

Um I still own that property, but I have a hard time keeping it rented.

And uh I've had no luck selling it.

Prospective buyers when they see how messy, unruly, and crowded the street is they choose to just drive past, they don't want to come in and see the house.

And um two other houses put up for sale in the area have been broken into, so I'm afraid to let it stand empty.

Between renters, I'm compelled to go back to that house and guard it, which um is very fear-inspiring for me.

The trespassing situation has been much more frequent, and several times campers have broken into my backyard.

The yelling, swearing, and fighting in the street is worse, unlike the circa white two circa Y2K East Main Place that had no requirements and that had requirements and consequences for occupants feed and shelter.

I feel doesn't have effective barriers, so its clients can use as many drugs, commit as many trial crimes, more or less, and neglect mental health treatment.

Um I think it would be nice if they were encouraged to get help for these kind of things.

Uh you know, and I'm I'm not blaming them.

I'm just talking on behalf of a property owner.

Um a few years ago, the police chief at that time called to explain they can't respond to trespass calls or crimes that I couldn't guarantee wouldn't be ongoing when they arrived.

I was told they prefer not to arrest these people.

Most of them had warrants, and the city could not afford to jail extra offenders.

I'm concerned that the expansion of shelters in this area will draw more people and make it even more of a crime pocket.

I challenge you to look up the change in crime statistics in Norman, how it correlates with the time following the establishment of food and shelter, and just I'm afraid for more building there.

Um I propose that the land south of Ufala might be fenced in and used as a camping area.

There are people of this community that prefer the freedoms.

But it's pretty clear to me about why it was rejected is that the people of Norman are not happy with the services that OG provides.

We live in Tornado Alley.

Norman has always been in Tornado Alley.

Oklahoma has always been in Tornado Alley, and yet none of our lines are buried.

At least not in the part of Norman that I live in.

And I understand it's expensive to bury lines, but it is also clearly expensive to repair them when there are outages.

But there are many people in our community who cannot and do not have the time or the resources to fight with their insurance companies to be able to afford it.

And I think it's very important that when we do go back to the negotiating table with OG, we talk about these prevention measures because it is not feasible for the people of Norman to have to lose power this frequently, like as we have seen this summer.

I know it like I've lived where I've lived for three years now.

This is the first time I've lost power for an extended amount of time.

But I know that's not true for everybody in Norman, and I expect that in the coming years, as there are more extreme weather events, that we will see more power outages if our lines are not buried.

That we have not buried the lines, and that the city, I think maybe has not been uh firm enough in their request to do it.

Um I understand this might be like difficult for the city to do, especially because OGE does control all of these lines.

I understand that they own them and that there's no other option.

Um, but I think that our community and the city council should be very firm um when negotiating with OG that these prevention measures are more important than ever, um, including I think better maintenance of uh trees and limbs around the lines.

Um I have definitely seen and I have heard from people in the community that they felt that the outages would have been either not happened or been less severe if OGE had been more um vigilant about keeping limbs away from the lines.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else that would like to speak that is not that wasn't signed up.

Rodney Johnson Ward 2.

Um I obviously know that you guys are gonna have your retreat next weekend.

Um, so I have a few things I'd like to talk about that I hope you can talk about at your retreat.

Um first of all, the reason I said what I did on the previous plat is because I've seen the pictures of this gentleman's land.

And I was here when one of my first meetings I came to was when uh when Western farmers, OG and E promised that none of this was gonna happen, and then it happened.

And I guess the city staff's working on it.

I hope they do.

Um I think you need to have more enforcement to be able to do to correct some of those uh the problems that come up.

Uh secondly, um, the gentleman that was at the planning commission this past week in ward, well, at this month's meeting at ward in ward five.

Um, the gentleman was a great entrepreneur.

Sounds like he's done a great a lot um with what he has.

He's an entrepreneur that I don't think Norman Meat wants to leave, wants to lose.

But we are gonna lose him because of the way he's been treated and what's happened.

People shouldn't have to hire um attorneys and all of that to uh be able to get something done, especially you know, when I'm thinking about uh economic development.

It's kind of hard for ward five to come up with economic developments.

But one thing we can do for those people out there is if they want to have a business on their property, we should make it damn easy for them to have a business on their property because you know there's not a lot you can do out there when especially on you have the five acre plot.

Um I mean, you maybe have something at the lake or something like that, but I think it would be more important to help uh support the people out there that that want to start something on their own property and let it grow.

Um so I think that's something you need to talk about.

Also, um I think you definitely need to talk about the sales tax incentives.

When that came up, we were told, or I think the city manager told us that um it would just take a couple of meetings of the economic development to come up with some rules.

Well, why aren't we having those couple of meetings?

Uh so that should be able to be done quickly.

Um so um I don't know why why that's not happened, um, but I would like at least Ms.

Dick.

Um I would I would appreciate if you'd bring that up also.

Um the next thing I want to talk about is the lawsuit against the uh the uh TIF in the stadium.

Um I know that when we heard from some of the people that are against that stadium, um they said, well, the city can stipulate to certain things.

Um, you know what?

When it came up to maybe you guys getting sued, you didn't stipulate anything, you you passed what you needed to pass.

I understand it.

That that went through properly according to the law, as far as we understand it right now.

Um did I sign their petition?

They said all 11,000 people are against it.

That's not true.

I signed their petition because I did believe that something that substantial should have gone to the vote of the people, but when it came up for a vote, I would vote for it.

So a lot of those people that signed that petition, I believe may have that same philosophy that they believed it should have been a vote of the people, but anyway, you should talk about that, talk about the lawsuit.

Um, and I think that we should stick with what's already been done, and again, on these plats, and I I couldn't believe what that gentleman back there has to deal with.

Further comments, any final comment from council members?

Councilmember Grant?

Yes.

Um, I wanted to speak to the homeless shelter.

Uh I will just say that I was reached out to by a property uh management guy who also does uh realtor work, and he had a client that wanted to sell some housing near the proposed site, but because of the lawsuit, which is with the Supreme Court, um CityCare had told him that they probably will hold off on trying to fundraise and purchase those properties to be like permanent supportive housing for people exiting homelessness until that lawsuit is settled.

Um on the retail rebates, it is on my council retreat priorities, and I've also spoken to city attorney walker about thinking um strategically about this being sales tax is regressive, meaning it's born on the backs of the working class more so than the property owner class.

And so if we're gonna develop a retail rebate, we might ask what are we getting for uh that type of funding stream, and is there social good built into it?

How can we be creative here?

Um, so I feel when council has uh directed staff that we can start the process with EDAB and give them an outline of what we're thinking.

Um, and to the point about OGE um in 2022, we were working with them on the franchise agreement and outlined that they should have better tree management practices, bury lines, and have a five-year review committee where we just sit down with them and talk about any of the progress that's been made.

Um, and that is why that council at that time put that on the ballot.

Uh, the second time it came to the ballot was because former mayor Heikla as a private citizen started a petition and they had enough signatures and it went to a vote of the people, but it was not supported by council at that time because none of the things that we were asking for were actually developed in the two attempts that we tried to pass a franchise agreement.

So I do appreciate Mr.

Lambert and the word one resident.

Sorry, I forgot your name.

Um coming to speak on that.

I think it will take the community having real discussions to build build the partnerships with OGE and bit between large businesses, small businesses, and residents to potentially see something that will get us to a new franchise agreement if we ever make it there.

Currently, we're operating outside of one.

Um we still collect the franchise fees, but um it is a tenuous relationship.

Thank you.

Okay, any other councilmember Bruce for the property owner on Reed Street.

I uh I see your concerns daily.

Uh I think that uh the city's gonna have to make a decision as far as uh protecting the city as it relates to residents in that area.

Uh for sure in a couple years we have to act as those properties across the street, and have an additional room and space for that area and handle almost like a campus.

And you know, if you know the for the street really to be the entry into that campus, Reed Street.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Any other comments, Councilmember Kirby?

I want to address the comment in the back about the substation.

I don't know exactly what I'd be allowed to say up here, but I would like to make it all of our city and our manager aware that we need to address this as soon as possible.

I mean, I know they've came up here endlessly and spoke with the inspection department, and now they're here again.

This has been going on for well over 90 days without any um actions being taken.

And now he is brought for three different or two different um they didn't follow the code.

They didn't follow what we approved up here or didn't approve up here, and the construction is going forward.

So um, I mean, we need to give them some kind of assurance that we're actually gonna do something considering they submitted one print and then built off of another one.

Uh waiting until it's done can end up costing him almost $10,000 in septic damages.

So is there a way we can assure them that we're gonna go out tomorrow and make sure they're following rules?

Already uh directed staff to send um an engineering group and a stormwater group to the site first thing in the morning and report back to council uh what their findings are.

Thank you, sir.

Okay.

No further comments.

Okay.

Well, thank you all for being here and everybody watching at home.

Um we will see you again.

I think we have maybe a study session next Tuesday, but our next council meeting is two weeks from tonight.

And again, we'll discuss uh we'll take up the shelter issue among other things.

So all right, everybody have a wonderful evening.

We'll see you next time.

Thank you.

Safe travels, lots of pictures.

Yes, indeed.