Good evening and welcome to the City Council, Norman Utilities Authority, Norman Municipal Authority, Norman Tax Increment Finance Authority, Norman Parking and Transit Authority Meeting of July 28th, 2026.

Madam Clerk, will you call the roll?

Councilmember Gandisbury.

Here.

Councilmember Deck.

Here.

Councilmember Bruce?

Here.

Councilmember Grant.

President.

Councilmember Kirby.

Here.

Councilmember Steele.

Here.

Councilmember Blodgett?

Here.

Councilmember Dixon.

Here.

Mayor Holman.

Here.

Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Okay.

Proclamations.

A proclamation proclaiming August 7th, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the City of Norman.

I'll entertain a motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation.

The motion on the floor is to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast in the motion to acknowledge receipt of the proclamation passes unanimously.

And I'll recognize Commander Joe Gill with the American Legion Post 88 to join me at the podium and accept the proclamation.

And Joe is the new commander of the Norman Legion.

Post 88.

Post 88 as of this week, today or as soon as July 1st.

As July 1st.

Commander Ernie Martin for 14 years served in that role.

And since uh move uh not moved on, he's still involved, I'm sure, but uh uh let someone else take over that post for the current and I really appreciate you doing that and for you being here tonight to accept this.

Thank you, sir.

A proclamation of the mayor of the city of Norman, Oklahoma, proclaiming August 7th, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the City of Norman, whereas the Purple Heart is the oldest military decoration still present, pres till still presented to the U.S.

service members, first established by General George Washington in 1782 as the badge of military merit and later revived as the Purple Heart in 1932 by General Douglas MacArthur in honor of George Washington's bicentennial birthday.

And whereas the Purple Heart is awarded to members of the United States Armed Forces who have been wounded or killed in combat, recognizing their braver bravery, sacrifice, and dedication to the ideals of freedom and democracy.

And whereas Purple Heart Day, observed annually on August 7th, offers a solemn opportunity for all Americans to honor the courageous men and women who have received this distinction and to acknowledge the profound debt of gratitude owed to them.

And whereas we recognize the service and sacrifice of these individuals not only on the battlefield, but also in the lives they continue to lead as patriots, community leaders, and role models of resilience and courage.

And whereas the City of Norman stands united in expressing our deepest respect and unwavering support for all Purple Heart recipients and their families.

Now, therefore, I, mayor of the City of Norman, Oklahoma, do hereby proclaim August 7th, 2026 as Purple Heart Day in the City of Norman, and encourage all citizens to honor our nation's Purple Heart recipients by recognizing their sacrifice and service to our country.

Passed and approved this 28th day of July, 2026.

Your Honor, thank you, and Council members and all of you who attended today.

Killed me over there.

We're being taken care of by the Veterans Affairs.

And we are thankful for that.

For many servicemen and women throughout the years that were given this award, we're thankful for it because they served some men and women received it multiple times because they were wounded several times.

And I saw times where men there were barely scratched and wounded.

They said, I need a purple heart.

And they got it because they were hurt in combat.

But at the same time, we didn't want to belittle or diminish this award.

And on behalf of the city, we thank you for proclaiming this day in August, honoring all of the men and women who've received this award over the years since George Washington established this award many, many years ago.

On the medal, it has his image.

And men that received it and women wear it proudly.

And like I say, I never got it, and I'm glad I didn't.

The wounds I carried are up here or in my heart.

But I'm okay.

I came home, and I wondered why did I come home and others did not.

We look back and we realized in Vietnam, over 53,000 men and women did not come home.

But yet today we are still losing men and women because of Agent Orange.

So when you see a veteran walking down the street wearing a hat, says Vietnam veteran.

Don't just well say thank you for your service.

Say welcome home because we were not welcomed home.

Make up for what happened to us back in 68, 69, and 72.

Thank us.

Say welcome home.

Thank you all so much for this award.

We appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Commander Gill.

And uh would just recognize a uh friend of mine, Kenneth Burbank, a Purple Heart recipient who lived his uh most of his life here in Norman and would come down to Friendly Market and talk about his experiences and things like that.

Um he just passed away last March, um about a year ago, so um good friend of mine who purple heart recipient, and um I always appreciated hearing um his stories and his perspective about what it was like uh in his life.

So and Agent Orange was something he specifically mentioned that had caused health issues for him his entire life since then.

So um thank you very much for being here and accepting that.

Um to council announcements, and we'll start at Ward One.

I guess after that there's nothing to say except Joe, welcome home.

That's all I got.

Thank you, Ward Two.

Um, I uh would like to thank the city's communication department and some of the other staff for keeping the storm debris updates on the city website.

That is something my ward in particular has been asking me a lot about, and so I appreciate the efforts that are going into that as well as the efforts still going into the cleanup itself.

Thank you.

Ward three.

Yeah, just like to diddle that uh do, you know, same and um I appreciate the text that calls the emails, in-person conversations on you know, a host of things you know, ranging from uh uh video cameras, flock cameras to storm debris pickup to stormwater management, uh homeless shelter, city shelter, the city budgeting.

I mean, this goes on and on.

I'm not the only one.

I'm sure all my peers here get the same emails or similar emails every week, and uh, but I appreciate it, but thank you.

Thank you, Ward 4.

Good evening, ward for and city of Norman.

I would like to echo a thanks to city staff, especially on the debris cleanup.

I believe we'll be getting our state funding since we're spending double what we thought.

And then maybe we might get some FEMA because it looks like between us and Tulsa we might have hit that threshold as well.

Um, on a happier note, on August 8th, uh, you can still buy your tickets for a taste of downtown.

Um go to downtown Norman.com forward slash taste of downtown.

The tickets are $35 for a passport, and you'll get to try um all kinds of stuff.

It is 21 plus because there are some um breweries and others associated with the events, but you're looking at Apple Tree Chocolate, Big Brewing, Custard Factory, Donuttery, which is new, uh Juliet Oyster Bar and Steakhouse, slightly newer.

But you're looking at Apple Tree Chocolate, Big Brewing, Custard Factory, Donuttery, which is new.

Uh Juliet Oyster Bar and Steakhouse, slightly newer.

Um legally brewed the local magic masala, also new main street trading post, also new prohibition lounge, scratch, tune d'acquer, the standard and yellow dog coffee.

Um, so I hope to see some of you out there for that event.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ward five.

No new announcements.

Ward six.

No announcements.

Thank you.

Ward seven.

Uh no announcements at this time.

Thank you.

Ward eight.

No announcements at this time.

Okay.

Um just mentioned Art Walk also this Friday in downtown Norman, I believe.

Wait, no, next Friday.

And then taste of Norman also on the eighth, as council member Grant mentioned.

Um, getting an opportunity to try out a bunch of different restaurants and uh places in downtown Norman for a price of one ticket, I think is a pretty good deal.

Um, also the storm debris cleanup updates.

Um several of us are sharing them with our wards and our social medias and things like that as soon as that we are getting them from city staff.

Um, and I've encourage everybody to follow the city of Norman's Facebook, Instagram, and email list, uh mailing list for those updates as they happen about anything that changes with uh the cleanup process, um questions about your neighborhood or your street, um things like that, and you can definitely reach out to any of us directly if you feel the need to, but uh definitely follow those pages uh for uh regular updates on what's going on and links to all the different um information sheets and forms that you might need to fill out if you've uh potentially and all sorts of stuff like that, but it is ongoing, and as I've just try to remind folks, um Norman does cover 200 square miles of city limits.

We're the 50th largest city in the United States in land area, and I've often mentioned as a comparison, Norman and Tulsa are about the same size in land area.

Tulsa has 400,000 people, and we have 130 or so.

Um so and there was a lot of significant damage having um 100 mile an hour or so winds in the middle of the summer when all the trees have all their leaves and everything still, so significant damage in many neighborhoods on lots of streets, and um I know it's frustrating and uh the expectation that everything gets picked up quickly, but I was reminded by city staff that the last big storm event we had was about a three-month-long cleanup process before it was all said and done.

So um for an ice storm a few years ago.

So I just encourage people to continue being patient.

Check out the uh websites and our social media for uh continued updates as they happen, and we'll get it.

We will get it all cleaned up and uh nobody will be left out or forgotten about um in the city uh before it's done.

So um, and then also just wanted to extend my appreciation to the council and city staff for the um uh annual retreat that we had this weekend and going over different priorities and issues as council member Bruce um uh listed a few of them out.

Um all issues that many of us are all aware of in Norman regarding stormwater and housing affordability and homelessness and development and um the library and the arena and the turnpike and um economic development policy and um all sorts of things like that were discussed and um just appreciate everybody's willingness to be open about different ideas and I assure everybody out there listening that this council is very focused on working to uh bring solutions to issues that we all know are uh facing the city of Norman and all of you and your neighborhoods and your businesses, and so they affect all of us too.

So um again, just appreciate that and all the work that goes into it.

And I'm looking forward to this next year of working together and trying to tackle these big issues.

So with that, I think we will move on to the consent docket.

This item is placed on the agenda so that the city council by unanimous consent can designate those routine additions that they wish to be approved or acknowledged by one motion.

If any item proposed does not meet with approval of all council members, that item will be heard in regular order.

Staff recommends item two through 17 be placed on the consent docket.

I'll entertain a motion to place items two through 17 on the consent docket.

Motion second.

The motion on the floor is to place items two through 17 on the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your vote.

All votes have been cast and the motion to place items two through 17 on the consent docket passes unanimously.

I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent docket.

Motion to approve.

Second to approve.

The motion on the floor is to approve the consent docket.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast and the motion to approve the consent docket passes unanimously.

All right, on to the non-consent docket.

Item number 18 is an ordinance amending section 36-201 of the code of the city of Norman so as to adopt a zoning designation for a tract of land located at the southeast corner of Reed Avenue and you fall the street and place in a simple planned unit development.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Motion to adopt second.

And I'll recognize assistant city attorney Anthony Anthony Purinton to make a presentation.

Thank you, Council.

Um here to discuss the simple planned unit development for uh what we're calling the Norman Housing Hub, which is a city development, which is something that's not very common, is for a city development to come in front of the city for zoning.

Um so we're going to be uh talking a little bit about that tonight uh and how that interacts with the approval process, but just to kind of provide some overall context to this discussion.

Uh again, we're talking about the zoning for the sh uh the proposed shelter location tonight.

Uh that's in the form of a simple planned unit development.

Uh and I kind of want to talk at this point about what this presentation is not.

So in a spUD narrative, we're talking about zoning classification, right?

So what we're going to be talking about tonight is the general use of the property, the you know, design criteria to be placed upon the property, spacing requirements, fencing requirements, things of that nature, mostly dealing with the built environment and how to it should interact with the neighboring uses and the neighboring properties surrounding it.

What we are not talking about tonight is I think the operation, the day-to-day specifics of the property.

That deserves its own conversation at a later time.

But tonight we are talking about the zoning coming in front of you for approval, which in the most part for a SPUD is contained within the SPUD narrative of that zoning designation, which contains the zoning criteria and zoning restrictions that pertain to that parcel.

And so that is the guiding document that we're going to be considering tonight, uh, and that is in front of you.

So I want to pay close attention to things that are contained within that SPUD narrative because that is the controlling language, and that is what you're deciding on.

So things outside of the SPUD narrative aren't necessarily relevant or can become irrelevant because again, I just want to focus on what the item is, which is the SPUD narrative and the SPUD ordinance.

So with that being said, I think that's kind of how this presentation is laid out, which is going through that SPUD narrative explaining one, the listed uses, the um the design and the development standards that are contained within that SPUD document, and then finally I'm gonna hand it off to FSB, the architects who helped with the site plan and the conceptual designs and the SPUD narrative itself in order to give those conceptual renderings to you so that you have an idea of what a potential development with those constraints in place could look like and how they could be and kind of do discuss the intentionality in creating the SPUD document and the SPUD narrative and why some of those decision decisions were made when we uh put this together.

So with that in mind, let's go and talk about a little bit of background, give some context to where we're at.

Um I'm sure all of you know that this subject tract is located uh along Reed, right south of Maine.

It's gonna be south of food and shelter uh to the north there.

And we're contained if you notice that big white area, that is all um Oklahoma State Department of Middle Hand land that uh is currently owned by them.

That is why it's white, because it is not zoned.

Uh the current property, the subject tract is not zoned because we bought it from the department.

So now it needs a zoning uh uh designation, which is why we're here tonight.

In the AM character areas, this one will be considered the core Norman.

And for the AIM future land use, it was designated as mixed use development.

The existing land use, again, kind of it's there really is no current zoning on the property or anything like that.

This is vacant land currently.

There is, if you notice, it looks like a road, there is no improved road on there.

It's more of just a pathway that I think has been worn down over the years conveniently to travel across the state property.

And there's an aerial.

What you will see the largest geographical element of the site, which is why it's a triangular parcel, is Bishop Creek that runs along the property's border, which creates a natural barrier as well as that.

Excuse me, we can't have any interruptions.

And so and here's a you know photo looking down read south of Reed, it's you know lined to the uh immediately adjacent to the property.

We also have R2, and so there's some houses along Reed across the street, and read is kind of a smaller uh street than normal because of the way it was originally platted.

So here's where we get into the list of uses.

And so every spUD narrative will contain its own list of uses that controls what that property can be used for moving forward.

Um, you know, keep in mind we kind of already have that governing documents because you know, we're going to be if this is the proposed site and the accepted site for the uh city's you know, bonded voted on uh homeless facility, homeless utility, then in that case, we already kind of had those guiding documents that limit how we utilize those funds, but this zoning designation kind of mirrors that and so it is a pretty general description of use.

There's only really one.

It would be a respite and unhoused overnight and emergency sheltering service, and that's what could be used for the property.

What that means is there are facilities supporting sheltering services that could include laundry, storage, multi-use space, dog kennel, and dog run, uh, and then of course, staff, operator, and community office areas for outreach and related services.

You know, use of the property as community garden and or open spaces, and then of course, you know, the catch-all community facility and multi-use spaces compatible with sheltering services.

Essentially, the property will be used for overnight shelter, right?

And those sheltering services that are compatible with that use.

Very simple, very straightforward.

Um, and it I think pretty much sets out what the property is gonna be used for.

Again, attached, I've also kind of shown what that could look like.

Again, this isn't contained within the spUD narrative, but you know, those kinds of uses I think inform some of the conceptual designs that have been given to council and the layouts inside of them.

So uh, and I think that a lot of this was contained in a lot of what council's feedback was uh to like the base base level of what this property will be used for.

So again, want to reiterate that the spUD narrative and a lot of what is contained in the SPUD that is designed for one, setting out what the general use of the property is, and we think that that use description is consistent with the voter-approved general purpose, which it was voted on, and then which again doesn't necessarily mean it didn't the the proposition didn't include the specific area in which we would put it, but the use I think more so uh and then of course general design criteria and standards for the development itself.

So again, the spUD narrative is not designed to uh have specific operational requirements or any activities, I think, which is you know important to note, outside the subject parcel, right?

This is contained specifically to the parcel in question, and it would be odd to put anything you know for the surrounding neighborhood, you know, or anything like that within this.

Not that they say we can't do that, or we can't talk about you know how we for example utilize CBDG money as we have talked about previously to like close an alley behind the houses on read.

So again, we're focused only on the subject parcel and the use and uh design criteria restrictions on that parcel.

So again, not saying that operational constraints and uh you know anything like that is not worth a discussion.

That's just not what we're here for, and that's not the item that is presented in front of you today.

Those are more you know appropriate to contain in operational documents, such as a contract for operation, which is not again what is in front of council tonight because we are not that at that level, right?

We need to zone the property, and then at a later date we will have the discussions, I think to a high degree of what that operation will look like and the operational day to day, and kind of again all of that will be consistent with the use generally of an overnight shelter.

The reason I think that it's more appropriate to place all of those operational constraints within more operational documents and contracts, is because it provides one greater oversight as council, as the owner to control the use of the property, which again, how often have you guys had you know, someone who comes out to city council gives a presentation and says we were going to use it in X, Y, and Z manner.

None of that's contained in the SPUD narrative, right?

Um you guys now, in a way, it's better because we have the power as the owner to use those operational constraints and go farther in order to ensure that the property is used consistent uh with the city's goals and objectives, but that is not through zoning, it is through contractual documents and operation agreements.

So it also creates flexibility in terms of federal funding, state and uh regulation and changes in those operational funding has to change with the times and also with the current landscape of federal regulations, state regulations, which change from year to year, right?

So uh it's important that we don't box ourselves in a corner and then later, a year later, federal regulations change, and the money that we counted on to use for that operation now we're constrained by the zoning.

So and then also, of course, I think that it gives a lot, a lot of flexibility to address neighborhood concerns as not only the shelter comes into its own, but also as the community around it and the neighborhood around it develops, and those needs change, and again, it allows us to adapt with the community as we grow with it.

So again, uh now we kind of get into I think the nitty-gritty of what the spud narrative really does, which is the development plan and the criteria and the design criteria, right?

So uh in your packet, you'll have a better, I think, both the green space exhibit and the land uh site plan, but it kind of lays it out.

There are two buildings, right?

Um, two approaches, a detention area, um, and that's the majority of what you'll see.

So uh just a general highlight of what some of those design specifications are.

It's a one-story building, uh, max one story, max of 40 foot roof pitch.

We had 15 foot building setbacks that were you know in the zoning document saying that high quality exterior materials, such as there's a long list, but masonry, stone, metal panels, uh will be used to avoid an industrial appearance in order to be more cohesive with the surrounding neighborhood.

Uh, you know, there will be, of course, rollout dumpsters within on-site exterior enclosures, which you can find on the site plan.

Uh, there is one primary interest sign, um, no more than 75 square feet.

All wall signage can't wall signage can be used, but if it is used, it has to be facing away from read.

So it would be, you know, for towards the parking lot.

Um, and it you'll notice that the parking lot is towards the back, as you've, I think, been briefed on several times.

It's a very intentional design decision.

Um, and we're also there's going to be sidewalks on read.

Again, two points of ingress and egress, so that emergency personnel, and then of course, our sanitation drivers can easily access and leave the facility.

Uh, you know, importantly note that there will be landscape in front of it to act as screening as well as the building itself, which acts as a natural barrier, and then um the lighting for the property will be consistent with the commercial outdoor uh lighting standards that the city has already adopted.

So protests.

So, of course, as a spud, there's a protest process.

Uh currently, I think we set a 5.6 protest within the notification area.

You'll see the parcels identified that did um submit a protest to the city.

Uh I think you know, and those were all sent out, I think, by US mail prior to pre-development.

Um, and then again, that's kind of a larger view of the property site map where you can kind of see the layout of the buildings, the setbacks, and everything like that, again, included in your agenda packet.

Um, and at this point, I think I'm gonna hand it over to uh Sean Lorg with FSB to kind of go over again.

I think you guys have had this presentation once or twice, but again, I think just to hit on the conceptual drawings and the drawings, why some of these decisions were made and uh how they're reflected in the conceptual drawings based off of the criteria set in that SPUD narrative.

Good evening I'm Sean Lord with FSB and let's just start with talking about the the site and some of the stuff that has been discussed already was was the intentionality of the siding and having and having it as a barrier between the the reed the the reed street and the the neighboring neighborhood utilizing the building as that right it it has a it's a single sloped pre-engineered metal building so it's about the most cost effective way to to build anything so we've we've been judicious from that side of it in our understanding of that we want to be cognizant of the the funds that are spent but the building itself is a single slope and it's the the lower slope will go towards the street okay and so on Reed Avenue the lower slope that comes down and so the idea there is to reduce the scale of the building to make it more less industrial.

Okay so an industrial and and that's this is the building is more of an industrial application I'll say that type is what you would see in in a you know pre-engineered metal buildings is what you're gonna see industrial areas.

However the treatments that we've applied to it are very much residential in in feel and in shape and and utilizing that back side and having it slope towards the street reducing the scale is an is a you know an architectural idea that that allows us to have some sensitivity towards that as mentioned as well on that on the east side of the property there that faces the Reed Avenue you'll have extensive landscaping and so a very sensitive aesthetic on that side of the street.

I would say on that on the street facing elevation is is very sensitive to to the aesthetic and what what people will be looking at and so you know trying to be have in mind that you know this is this is going essentially right across the street from a from an active neighborhood so that's the intention the intake side when we're looking at the site is is on the east side of the east side of the building so all intake for the shelter would be on that side the kind of loop road that you see is a is a code requirement for fire so that's the essentially a fire lane that goes all the way around the building and gives it gives us fire access allows the the building to be properly served by the by the fire department and some other side amenities and things we've we've drawn some things in a in a courtyard that that split the two buildings at this point that's you know that those things are kind of up for debate what actually ends up in there but the the idea again is is a programmatic idea that that allows for some outdoor activity within that space you know these these uh these people that we're serving with this the that will be served by this are are are um they're a lot of pain you know they're they're hurting and so we're trying to give them some some options some help I think that's the way to address this is is ultimately the building gives us that opportunity as a community to be able to hopefully change the direction here you know I think that that's why this is being discussed you want to flip can we oh is it I'm sorry this is just a blow up view of the same thing again there's there's uh you know we've got we've got uh code required parking we've got the you know our dumpsters are all on the back side as well so all the service components will be on the east side of the property there the there's no throughput in the courtyard area that's actually all fenced off so that's enclosed and so once you're actually in the in the building there you're you're you've been intake you've had gone through the intake process you're in the compound and so there's you're not you're not coming through that facade in any way shape or form so everything releases back to the east so that that facade again they will have uh we've been told uh that the operators and and this could you know be a discussion as well more of an operational thing we'll just touch on but security cameras will be completely around the entire site uh so they'll watch it they'll they'll monitor it they'll they'll make sure that um it's being utilized the way it's intended to be utilized this is kind of an aerial shot again you can kind of see some of the aesthetic sensitivities that that have been put into this and so this this shows the the elevated component there with the rock is actually the one closest to us is a uh is a dog run and so there there's a there's a dog run where you can let your dogs because that's a part of part of this uh idea as well now the dogs will not be let out into a yard to yap and throw a fit they will be taken out to do their business run around maybe throw a ball and then get back in and so

Again, you can kind of see some of the aesthetic sensitivities that have been put into this, and so this shows the the elevated component there with the rock is actually the one closest to us is a uh is a dog run.

And so there's a there's a dog run where you can let your dogs because that's a part of part of this uh idea as well.

Now the dogs will not be let out into a yard to yap and throw a fit, they will be taken out to do their business, run around, maybe throw a ball and get back in.

And so it's it's not just a free-for-all for that.

That certainly will be managed.

But what you can see though from this from this image again is a is an aesthetic sensitivity.

It's not just a large metal building sided component.

We put some clear story windows there as well, uh, natural lighting for the for the interior, but also it's an aesthetic thing for the neighborhood as they drive past.

This will not look like some industrial blob, you know.

It's gonna, it's gonna it's gonna perform and look as if it's a nice piece of architecture, and it and it serves as the you know, the biggest thing I can say is it serves as a barrier, and that's that's a very important thing.

This is again some some idea of and I you know, I even as we talk about this.

This looks almost resort-like.

It's an idea, so let's not get hung up on the idea of there's some activity going on there, we want them to get outside.

We want them to just feel human for a minute and and appeal to that side of humanity, but this is all contained, um, and so it kind of gives them a space that they can utilize to to get outside and get some exercise.

This is again the large barrier side of it, and so the east side here with the parking lot, and then this is the intake kind of a covered intake area.

I will mention that signage has been discussed.

We've got we've got a couple of ideas of of potentially in and city cares on there.

That's not necessarily who that is.

That's those are placeholders, and how we might utilize some sort of signage on this side of the building, uh, obviously following the spud requirements and making sure that we stay within that 75 square feet that are there are square 75 square 70 or square feet, yeah.

Um that's allowed, and so we'll stay within that requirement of the spUD.

Uh but this does a really nice job of uh screening.

I mean, that's a that's a 30-foot wall right there that's in front of you, and so um all of the things that come with homelessness are are not pretty, and that's just a simple fact.

Um so we're we're trying to give an opportunity to manage it.

And with that, I would open it up for questions.

Okay, thank you.

And uh Councilmember Grant.

Yes.

Uh I was at the planning commission meeting, and some of the feedback they had for for y'all were um places for kids to play and expanding on that.

And I was kind of curious in the site plan if you had incorporated that uh feedback and found the location that you would um can I go back?

Yes, we do have that, yes, and I failed to mention that, so that's my fault.

Um the actual area for that.

I don't know if you can see if you could see here.

So this is a dedicated space here that will also be fenced that is for families, and so they will have their they have so the kids and families have their own dedicated outdoor space.

And this is this is the center one that separates the two buildings is general, okay, and so that that anybody can go there, but but this is a dedicated private area for families.

That will be fenced in as well.

Absolutely.

Um and only accessible through only accessible through the through the family area, which is the which is the building to to the south there.

Yes.

And then I saw community garden and the list of uses.

Is that in the proposed detention where that might happen?

Some of the so there's there's been discussions.

I don't believe that that's allowed.

Uh so that's there have been discussions that that is a desire at a certain point when we looked at this, we were trying to go a little further east, but I think that there's we've got some issues with um uh the flood zone and things like that.

So it it depends.

That's that's the answer.

And I the last time I the last time we presented this, I don't I don't think everybody understood the depth that we've gone to on this.

It's a concept.

And so the depth isn't that we've done construction documents, we haven't done engineering, we haven't gone through.

I don't have a civil engineer, and we're literally architects just taking a stab at this and looking at it and trying to give some thoughtfulness to it and trying to get some depth, but we're not there yet.

And so that's a you know, that's a four to six month process that will happen and will take place once all of this is kind of approved and move move forward where we'll you know we'll be able to answer those definitive questions that you have about uh how the how the facility is is operating, obviously, in an operations agreement that you might sign.

And then uh I am just thinking about Bishop Creek, and I appreciate the row of trees on the east side.

Um is there fencing to go along with that?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

Absolutely.

This is a completely contained um development.

Okay.

100%, and and it'll have it's a black vinyl coated is what we've put in in the spUD, black vinyl coated fencing for the back side, and then we'll have we'll have that's and that's that's porous and intentionally, so there's a security component to that.

People can hide behind things.

We don't want that to happen.

On the front side of the building, though, that is actually not like a non-poor fence.

So that'll be think think stockade, think wood, some sort of a true blocking element that you will not be able to see into the to the courtyard.

And then uh just thinking about stormwater, uh, are there low impact development principles in this design that would help uh I know there's the detention side of it, but anything like a rain garden that might help clean the water as it moves through this property?

To my knowledge at this point, none of that's been discussed or developed.

Okay.

It's not to say that we couldn't.

Um I don't think that anything's in the spUD regarding that.

No, I mean I think there's just a commitment that we will, you know, meet all of the city's current regulations and requirements for uh site retainage detention stormwater.

But it doesn't mean you couldn't have low impact development principles, correct?

Yeah, absolutely not.

Um all right, those are my questions for right now.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Gansbury.

Yes, Sean.

Hearing some of the concerns in the protest letters that I read and emails that I received, um, will there be separate fencing outlining that the detention pond by itself and everything, kind of protecting it from a kid in the neighborhood coming over or whatever else there?

The the detention is is think it it it looks as if it's some sort of a pond of water.

It's not that's those are largely empty.

They're they're allowed for big you know uh large amounts of is it going to have a fence in the very front running down the street.

It does have one in front, yes.

Okay, yeah.

All right, that helps council Bruce.

Clarify that just a little bit.

So is there uh there's a a fence that surrounds the facility that's relatively close in my mind, and there's a secondary fence around the perimeter.

Is that correct?

There's so if you can see my so we'll have a fence all along the north edge, down and around.

So the entire property with the exception of this element are are this actually is open to to clarify back to David's question.

The the detention is is not fenced, is not intended to be fenced.

Okay, and this is uh really for Anthony.

I'm just trying to give the straight my mind.

So you got 146 individuals, potential max in this facility.

But once you've been inducted, you know, you you can so that's thinking about if I was in there and 446 folks, I I would need to take a walk every once in a while.

So I mean uh I know we're not supposed to do operational, but yes, do I go at the back and so is there anything in the SPUD narrative that addresses that particular concern?

Absolutely not.

But that is it's because more of it's a spUD document, and that's I think a little too it's really more of the built environment, and so in in far as the built environment and how it could address that concern, the layout of the buildings and the structure of the buildings is designed in such that intake can be very continuous if necessary, but in terms of whether or not someone is allowed outside or inside the building is not really addressed in the SPUD narrative, no.

I appreciate I appreciate the ambiguity, uh the uncertainty.

Yes.

So the other other thing that I have has to do with uh I keep thinking about this particular design and the impact associated with the community, but it's really larger than that.

It has to do with I call it a strategic plan, where I I thought the city had promised the community, the neighborhood, hey, we're gonna work with you in a strategic plan related to your concerns.

When I think about that strategic plan, I think about mitigating risk for the city as it relates to Oklahoma Safe Neighborhood Act.

Can you can you give me some type of reassurance that plan is currently under development or has been finalized?

So I think what I will first again is because I have to kind of tie it somehow to the item at hand, right?

So uh correct.

Like in that is I think what has been stated by the city, or you know, some I think members of council or other otherwise that we would like to utilize the neighborhood and like be involved with the neighborhood as we move forward and addressing their concerns.

Absolutely, yes.

So for so for example, I think what you're talking about again is going to encompass so much more than what we can do and put into a spUD narrative, right?

I'm not asking for it, I'm just asking for an update as it relates to the strategic plan that we in good faith mentioned to the community hey, we'll work with the neighborhoods to develop that plan.

So if that plan hasn't been started, I would like to know.

Okay.

So yes, um, which uh separate from this, uh we have been engaged with, I think it's um Evan Taylor, who is I think a part of original town site.

Uh okay, good.

And so what we are currently doing is working on, it's not necessarily a strategic plan so much as like and they've used been used in other areas before, like what uh an MOU of sorts, like that's called a good neighbor agreement, right?

Which is it you know, puts into writing like what the expectations are.

It you know establishes a you know, maybe a formal complaint process or a dedicated complaint process in which community members can um input their concerns, right?

I I what I'm saying is that is the status is ongoing.

Do we have one now?

No.

Here I mean I I would be a little concerned if we had one in front of you today, because we're going to be evolving and the community concerns are going to be evolving as we build this, right?

It needs to be an ongoing process, not one that I can give you in a package that'll never change ever here today.

And so I think some of the steps that we have created to saying there should literally there literally should be some type of living document at this time related to those concerns, addressing the potential concerns and the needs that have been expressed by those neighborhoods and those needs being turned into potential action plans for the city.

That's all I'm saying.

So if we don't have anything on that so far, I'm I'm good with it.

I just need to know.

Yes.

And so again, um, just to pick up where I left off, in terms of the status of that, where we're at now, is we have had conversations and then kind of like looking at like generally like what could that look like, like what would you like to see?

Um, and then what we're planning on actually going down.

I don't know.

So I mean and Lisa Craig, uh who recently retired from the city, uh, I think two years ago went down and we toured uh the bridge.

It was a homeless facility, a lot like this one in a way in terms of its conception and uh uh that it that's in the city of Dallas, right?

Um we were struck when we went in there, I think by where it was at in relation to the neighboring partners, and when we parked, we were like, are we sure we're in the right place?

We didn't really see anyone.

It had been it's located right next to a brand new development, which is uh, I think high density uh luxury apartments called the farmers market, I think.

Uh and we talked to them, it was a whole campus in downtown Dallas, uh, and had a lot of conversations about them on how they run their facility.

And I think it's a really good uh facility to kind of use as that guidepost and talking with Amanda Scherf, our community outreach uh or community uh or I can't remember services uh manager, uh we've organized a trip down to uh visit them again and specifically this time talk about how the community relation piece works because they do have a lot of formalized good neighbor agreements that have been facilitated by the city uh as well as some like additional governing documents and how they relate, both on the city side and how they're funded, and also from how they have private agreements with the neighboring facilities.

So we want to look at a lot of good examples so that we can kind of step in their footsteps and also kind of mirror what they've done and how they've been successful.

And so we're putting a lot of time and effort, I think, into making sure we're doing all the research and we're getting good um use cases, and then that way we can come up with a better product.

So again, a lot of effort, time and attention we are putting forward at this time.

But we don't have a final product yet, no.

I I wouldn't expect you to have a uh final product, but you have a living document that you've started with the neighborhood.

These are the potential concerns, these this is how we can address them.

Those would turn into requirements for the city to mitigate the risks that are associated with Oklahoma Safe Neighborhoods Act.

Okay.

That's fine.

Um and just to clarify on that note, there's uh section two in the ordinance talks about the uh from the planning commission after conducting a public hearing.

Um neighborhood impact study and a plan for infrastructure and takedown schedule, et cetera.

I think that's part of what councilman Roos is alluding to.

Uh could you clarify that recommendation from the Planning Commission about what impact study and then schedule of I ideally two years and not longer than five years for said infrastructure to be installed, um collaboration with police department and other neighboring partners, uh things like that.

So are you talking about this the recommendation of the planning commission and like their recommendation?

Um so that recommendation, my understanding is, which again it I don't know how to necessarily formalize that in a spUD document.

Um it's just not something that I think is I can understand as putting in there, but that was more focused on what the city can do outside, not how it relates to the parcel, but as it relates to the neighboring impacts, right?

Again, I don't think this is something that if you know a private developer came forward potentially that you could necessarily like you know uh put in a spUD narrative, right?

But because we are the city, right?

In terms of like we are, you know, uh we have more power as the owner, right?

We can put those requirements on ourselves potentially, right?

We can take the affirmative step and you know, remediating some of the concerns outside of this parcel, right?

This contains you know some of the remediation tactics used in the built environment to make it cohesive with the neighborhood and address concerns from the built environment perspective, but outside of that, right?

That is a potential, I think, where that recommendation is coming from is like let's look at the community concerns, the community impacts, and then how do we address them?

So that is again more of a policy decision, I think.

Um, not necessarily a zoning decision, is how can the city be a good neighbor as the owner moving forward uh in terms of that continued reinvestment and uh intentionality within the neighborhoods?

So that is I think where that uh recommendation is coming from.

I don't want to speak for the planning commission, but that is my understanding.

Okay, it is written in into the ordinance on section two here.

Okay, uh the second whereas.

So the whereas clause in terms of like that's the recommendation.

I'd have to look specifically, but the whereas I think language um is more of like the legislative history, it's kind of like the context of where we're at, it is what happened prior to the council meeting, it memorializes the recommendations of them.

It doesn't create an obligation or anything like that.

So it's more of just memorializing that legislative history as it came before council.

Okay.

Um councilmember Kirby and then grants.

I was wondering on your storm, like do you have a plan for storm since we are in Tornado Alley and like for a storm seller or is it built in?

And then also, do y'all have plans anywhere to have like a backup generator that way if we have a storm um like we did not too long ago, we lost power here to the temporary shelter.

So what's the plan for that?

We have so so regarding generator, we haven't got there yet.

Um great idea.

Um, I think that there that's probably advisable.

What I would say on the on the uh storm shelter component, yes, we do have a hardened and we're not FEMA, we've got a hardened area that'll be utilized in the um kind of the dormitories of both men's and women separate that will that will be able to take everybody that's in the facility will be able to take cover in there.

Yes.

And thank you.

Just to clarify, because we're talking about the zoning item specifically, I just want to make it absolutely clear.

I don't think that's in the zoning item itself as we're a zoning requirement, but again, I think that is the intent moving forward as we're designing the property.

So I just want to make sure that that is something separate from what the item is in front of you, just to clarify.

Okay, councilmore grant.

Also to delineate between zoning and contract, I would assume by the time we got to a contract with city care to take over this facility once built and opened, that we would have the neighborhood impact study and agreements in place.

So again, I I would like to point out that that recommendation I don't think has been yet discussed by city council at an open meeting.

So like I feel like that's gonna require like budgeting and you know stuff like that.

So if that is the direction that city council wants to take, I think that is something that is worth a conversation to have, but I think that's one that you guys haven't had yet.

Um so as I'm assuming I don't know.

I'm sure it's coming.

I yes, I figured to give some history.

We did sit down with all three neighborhoods and uh the Alameda Church of Christ to talk with city staff, home together, Norman, COC and CityCare to discuss all the things that the neighborhood uh or neighborhoods were concerned about.

And um that serves as the basis of what we might uh what they might choose to do or adopt in a good neighborhood plan, and then leaders from those neighborhoods of some are here tonight, uh, got to tour CityCare and West Lawn Gardens and see how uh permanent supportive housing works when city care operates in that neighborhood, and the other collection of services and amenities because that area, even though it is low income and has shelters, does have commercial and other things going on in the area as well.

So just wanted to put that out there since our planning commission didn't know that.

Um, and maybe other members of council did not know that council Bruce, is anybody else trying to push their button?

Go ahead.

Okay, Councilman Grant, where where's the plan?

Or was the tenor of the plan or where's it living document where the residents have listed their issues and the cities assist those issues for potential action items in the future?

I I haven't seen a written document on that.

Sounds like it's coming.

Um we will be working on that.

Um we're just talking to the clerk about um, yeah, because I would say how would the neighborhood know what to ask for in a good neighborhood agreement if they didn't go up there and actually tour it and have conversations among themselves.

Um I understand your concern, but it's not the only neighborhood impacted by homelessness, like their neighborhood, um old silk stocking, for example, that wants us to do stuff about homelessness around Salviation Army.

So wow, I appreciate the questioning on this part.

Really, we're looking at the zoning and how that impacts the lived environment.

I I agree.

This is no different than that.

Are we still on questions?

Yes, okay, just make sure.

Yes.

Um, and on that note about questions, um the agreement part of it, a separate agreement with an operator that could be city care that the council would have to approve at a later date.

So here's what I'm gonna say, and I know I keep repeating myself, and I'm sorry, but I just want to like what I'm trying to avoid by keeping referring to the SPUD narrative is I think promises are incredibly incredibly incredibly important, especially in this conversation.

I don't want to have any promises made here tonight that are not in writing, right?

Because you as council haven't had these discussions yet.

We have not made any of those promises.

You can say that we have these intents and we have the intent to have the discussion.

It is on, I think this council to have those discussions, but until that promise is put in writing, I don't want to say here today that we're putting it in writing or that we're saying it because that is how we ended up with similar situations that we're hearing from the neighborhood concerns is we were promised this and this and this at during the zoning process, and they never happened.

Why?

Because they weren't in the zoning document, because that is the promise that we're making tonight.

Those promises are the ones I'm concerned about and any other promises that council is interested or willing or wants to discuss, I'm more than happy to have that conversation with you.

But I think that at this point my goal is to not promise things to the neighbors that we haven't actually put our money where our mouth is or had those conversations dedicated to those items, um, because at this point we're deciding on whether or not the zoning and the zoning requirements in this document are going to be put in place, those promises will be put in place.

Those other promises, which I think are important, have to be decided at a later date because that is not what is in front of council now.

So all of those promises, yes, will be made at a later date if council decides to put them on an agenda and make those promises at that time.

That's up to you guys, and I'm uh I think that that is the intent.

But right now, the promises we have today, those are not the promises we have in front of us today.

No, but I'm assuming that they will come.

Yes.

Right.

And any before this facility opens, any operating agreement with whoever the operator is, will have to come before this body again and for a public hearing and be approved or not at that time.

Correct.

Perfect.

And then can nor any Norman resident as part of this, any Norman resident would be able to access this facility.

No.

For services.

No.

For example, um, sex offenders.

Uh it's not within the area.

I think that well, it depends, it's a complicated question because you know, every individual case is different, and it was at a different time, and there are different statutes that apply, they're depending on the person.

But no, I mean, I think essentially there are certain legal constraints such as that.

Um, but again, that's not contained within the zoning document, that is contained within state law.

So no.

Okay.

This simple answer to that question.

And then there was discussion about, well, we had discussion about and citizen committee similar to the animal welfare oversight committee that was formed to oversee the creation and construction of the animal shelter several years ago, and having a similar citizen committee.

Um more official one than the home together that would still exist as a citizen committee, but a formal one that would actually oversee the construction of this, but not necessarily related to this SPUD document, but more an answer to some questions we've heard about neighborhood involvement representatives from the neighborhood being on something like that as well.

So uh council member Bruce.

Just uh I just want to clarify this.

I'm not asking you an operational excuse and question.

I'm asking a question based on six or seven months ago where people said, both from a city and from staff and from neighborhood, hey, we're gonna get together and develop this document.

We're gonna develop a document about our concerns and our issues and how the city is going to address those concerns and issues.

Some of those turns into needs related to some type of plans relate to execution of putting in lights or putting in fences or security patrols and stuff of that nature.

I can see from tonight that we don't have at that document established, or even the start of it.

Is that correct?

Even the start of it.

Because we haven't directed staff to do that.

Is that correct?

No, not necessarily.

I'm I'm not gonna say that there is no intentionality or like so like I guess do we have a draft document?

Is that the question?

You bet.

Oh, yeah.

And no, no, there's no draft of like a you know, like uh no.

Um but are we having discussions?

Are we talking about it?

Yes.

So even in your brainstorming sessions where you did nominal grouping or some other technique, there is no notes related to those meetings.

Hey, these things are topics of importance that we need to resolve on.

Do do we do we have a list of community concerns?

Oh, oh yeah.

Uh I mean, I mean, uh I can give you all the action center complaints.

I can give you um, like, I mean, uh y yes, we've taken notes for those meetings, and they're especially the public meetings, because there's gonna be minutes.

Um, so there are written documents pertaining to the um effort to produce a later document, I guess.

Uh if that answers your question.

I just uh one just comment, I'll I'll leave it at that.

So by our actions alone tonight of what we've discussed has proven the concerns of the communities that are gonna be around the city shelter.

Because this was a concern of theirs that hey, we're we weren't going to take appropriate action in a timely manner.

So to me, uh appropriate action would be this the start of the living document to list their concerns and give potential courses of action to mitigate those concerns.

That's all I have.

Thank you, Councilmember Grant.

I think Ansberry.

Um I appreciate delineating between the SPUD narrative and the other things that we're gonna do.

And as the chairperson who actually chairs over site, I can promise to the neighborhood, especially regional town sites sitting there, uh, that we will bring those forward in oversight to discuss further as appropri when the appropriate time comes, because we are always juggling many things.

Um yeah, I totally expect this conversation to continue.

But my vote tonight won't be contingent on that.

Um fully supportive of the SPUD.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Grand Candisbury.

Yeah, I'd like want to say, you know, I go over there around Reed Street quite a bit, and I go talk to people quite a bit, and I've even reached out to a couple of the members of the community over there as well.

And yes, I've taken mental notes and you know, notes on paper for myself, Bruce.

But I if there was a meeting that existed about where we sit down and talked about this, I wasn't invited to that meeting either, because I didn't go to a meeting like that and everything.

And I think that's why he's trying to say we need to have one.

And one of our other councilmen at our retreat actually put that on our big board to discuss a read improvement kind of policy and how we're going to go about that over there on Reed Street that I look forward to addressing, you know, very very soon.

But I think for the case of a SPUD tonight, it's this isn't the conversation for how or who the operations going to be.

That's for when that contract gets put in place and we're trying to prove that contract or not to get all those narratives and get the person that's going to be running it in front of us to nail them to the cross and ask them those hard questions about how they're going to run the facility or not.

And I'm not talking operational execution.

Councilmember Bruce, Councilman Gasberry.

So and just to, I think another thing as well is like there's not going to be one living document that is going to address all community concerns.

We're going to have to address this in multiple ways.

One of which is how the built environment addresses some of the concerns of the neighbor.

So in a way, it is not one living document that is going to address these concerns.

It's going to be a group of documents and a group of protections and a group of intentions and the documents that flow from those that create a network of the protection to address those concerns.

This is one thread in that fabric.

So again, if you want to think about it as one living document, I would say think of it as one living tapestry.

This is one thread.

One, where we contain some promises that we are putting in the SPUD document that contain uh regulations and uh criteria for the built environment, and we have listened to the community members and what their concerns are.

And at this point in the process where we can address the built environment, we are trying to implement that feedback.

But again, do we have every single part of that?

No, we're still weaving.

But until we get to that point, it is one thread at a time.

So this is one of the threads that's in front of you, and that is why I've been so purposeful about making sure that we are on task, and like what are the promises here?

Are we looking at the promises that we're making here?

Are they realistic?

Do they address the concerns of the neighborhood?

I haven't heard anything necessarily about well, I think you should have put this, I think you should have put that.

Where is this?

This is missing.

That is what this discussion is for.

And if that's the case, I think we did a pretty good job.

Um, but again, we haven't heard from the public yet, and I think that's going to be a large part of that, and then council gets to make their decision.

So I want to make sure here tonight that the part in front of you guys contains everything that the Spud document should contain to address the concerns of the neighborhood.

And so I think that's kind of where I want to go.

Yes, we could have a lot more.

This is what we have in front of you tonight.

Okay.

All right.

This is an opportunity for members of the public to make comments regarding this item.

Madam Clerk, is everyone signed up to speak on the side?

Yes, Mayor.

Megan Strong.

Okay.

Welcome.

Uh so from my perspective, we come down here pretty often to have the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If we leave these people out in the elements, you're going to see the kind of things that you see in encampments.

If you don't assist the encampments with any kind of infrastructure, just like any other human enterprise without maintenance, it's going to fall apart and it's going to be a nightmare.

And if we forever play these silly games about finding whatever sticks to throw into the middle of the path, we're not going to get anywhere.

These policies and conditions that lead to this situation do not originate with the city.

They do not originate with the state.

Some of these are worldwide conditions that have always been with us.

Doing exactly the same things is going to continue to net exactly the same results.

So if we put all of our effort into chasing people who have put their stuff down, which Charles Dickens wrote about in the 19th century England.

And then they end up in the same place or a hundred yards away or 200 yards away.

Because from where I'm sitting, it seems like we have an underclass of people that just keep getting shit on.

I've been awake 40 minutes.

I don't I don't have all my language in yet.

It's not conscionable.

I'm sorry to watch it.

If we can please um like to remind everybody this is a rezoning, so if you uh we'll have further conversations and debates and votes about operation and policy, but this conversation is about whether you think this piece of property that's never been zoned for anything, it's institutional state previously state owned for a hundred plus years, should be rezoned to allow for overnight staying.

So just so everybody's on the same page about that part.

If you think this piece of property is appropriate for this use or not.

So proceed.

Yes.

Uh Mayor Heidi Smith.

I'm Heidi Smith.

I'm from Ward 5.

I'm also with the Cleveland County Continuum of Care.

You all know me, been here before.

Um I was thinking about what to say tonight.

The thing that I that has really been in my mind for the last week is we have addressed homelessness in Norman in the manner of building the plane while we're flying it.

It has been a crisis, it's been an emergency, we've taken steps that then because they weren't incredibly well thought out, or because they were the least terrible option.

That has been the theme of 2026 is what's the least terrible option.

And I think with this shelter specifically, we looked and looked and looked, and I think the number is 13.

I think this was the 13th site that they actually tried to put either some places had had a contract before, but this is just doing the next right thing.

It's saying we want to take steps.

We know that this is important to our community.

The home base plan is the highest priority is to have a permanent shelter in our community.

We need the space, we need the resources.

So this is just saying we're doing the next right thing, and we're taking it steps in order.

I would just highly urge each of you to say, yes, we're going to have community conversations, yes, there's things that need to be resolved, but this is just the next right thing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor, City Council members.

My name's Evan Taylor, I'm Ward 4, and I'm a resident of the original town site neighborhood.

And I wanted to begin by saying that I do not oppose this vote.

Don't want you to either.

I understand that approving the spud authorizes the zoning that makes this shelter real.

And I recognize the need it's meant to serve.

Now, but approving it really does make it real.

Real for us.

And I can tell you guys are already sitting with this, but I ask you to continue to sit with that for a moment because we're the ones who live next to what becomes real.

Our neighborhood already knows what goes on on Reed Avenue intimately.

We know it because we live there now.

There's already an extensive encampment there.

There's already heavy traffic.

There's already a natural concentration of people that are drawn to that exact place because that's where they eat their meals.

And uh there aren't hypothetical, there just aren't any hypothetical impacts.

The study needs to discover.

There are daily conditions, and they're not going to pause why this building goes up.

Now, the planning commission recommended an impact study, and I appreciate the instinct behind that.

I think it was meant to protect us.

But here is our honest concern.

A study is just a snapshot.

It describes one moment and the challenges we're talking about, spillover, traffic, encampments on state land that the city can't even enforce on.

These are not a single moment.

They are gonna shift from month to month, from season to season, and a snapshot taken this year within two years or no farther than five years really tells you nothing about the problems we're going to be managing in the future.

And so my neighbors and I are asking is not more paperwork.

You know, we want a relationship.

And I've already been meeting with the city attorney's office with Anthony Perrington and with Amanda Sheriff, your new community services manager, and those conversations have been very, very good.

What we want is a kind of dialogue like that, make it permanent and official.

We need this channel where the neighborhood can reach a named person at the city to get real substantive responses on a reasonable timeline where we solve problems together that actually arise.

Not once paperwork uh not once on paper before anything's actually happened.

So uh, and I think that's what it means to be a good neighbor.

Uh, you're about to build something next to us, the things you do will affect us, and the things we do will affect you.

The only way that works, and the only way neighbors can make it work is by staying in conversation.

So approve the spud.

But as you do, and I think it the desire is there, commit to us to building that loop between us and the city, give us a seat on how this gets managed, be our neighbor, not just our zoning decision.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Lisa Schmidt.

Good evening.

I'm Lisa Schmidt.

I live in Ward 2, and I have for 27 years.

I'm here as sort of the unofficial spokesperson for the faith community and some of the nonprofit organizations that all come together to try to build a network to support our most vulnerable citizens, whether they are the people of Norman who are homeless or the people of Norman who are near homeless.

And a lot of us do put our efforts, the churches, the mosque, the groups that come together every month and have for several years.

Every third Friday of the month, we come together to talk about who's being served, how they're being served, how can we help people prosper, how can we work together?

Um we talk about what's not being done.

Those meetings are open to anyone who would like to attend, and we just really want to thank you for taking the next step because we see this as such an important piece of supporting and helping and helping us help others that you're taking the next step by approving the zoning in this area that we know people will be best served in that area.

We are used to helping and serving people in that area.

That we just want to thank you for approving this and hope that we can continue to work together with the neighbors.

We consider the neighbors who are housed in the shelter to be important.

We consider all of the neighbors that are around that shelter to be our neighbors, and we really do want to be a source of dialogue and help and understanding and listening to everybody involved so that we can help more Norman people prosper and really serve all of God's children.

We see every one of them in those encampments now and being sheltered and in the overnight shelter as children of God that we are called to serve, and we really appreciate the chance to be involved in those conversations and discussions.

And thank you for thank you for this commitment.

We look around at other communities, and you really are making a stand and responding to real situations and real people and real families, and we just feel that that's very important.

We look around at other communities and you really are making a stand and responding to real situations and real people and real families and we just feel that that's very important want to be a part of that so thank you Alex Landfair Alex Landfear uh Ward 2.

Um given the homelessness crisis that Norman's been experiencing for the last six years I think it is appropriate to uh rezone this land so please approve this bud uh thank you so much thank you marguerite Larson Marguerite Larson Ward Six I am very excited that um this is moving forward I really think that this shelter is imperative absolutely imperative to the community for all the community and so I am very very hopeful that you all will approve this things will move forward and our unhoused population will have some sort of destination in the end thank you thank you Mayumi Windler Hello uh Maimi Windler Award 2 so first off yes please approve this um and then next thing is it is still related to the homeless thing I looked at all of the documents online uh thank you for suggesting you know looking up homeless statistics uh so 2025 416 unique people um 193 housing connections and 28 people connected to housing um so far this year 234 unique people 100 housing assessments and 36 connected to housing so we're pretty much on track for the people and the housing assessments but we are doing you know really well on connecting people to housing and I'm hoping having a permanent shelter where they can just be there the whole time that'll get more people you know connected to housing and getting on their documents and getting them back you know into a productive life so thanks thank you Dan Sean good evening uh I'm Dan Strawn I've been in ward six for a little over three weeks now um about a quarter century in ward seven before that and a quarter century on the west side of Norman before that um I'm also the interim chair of Home Together Norman and um was the founder and for 20 years the executive director of the homeless alliance in Oklahoma City.

I can talk about homelessness all day but that's not what we're here about.

I I want to address the spUD very directly and and I would suggest to you that the way to think about it is as civic infrastructure like a OGE power station or a water treatment plant or a senior center.

Those are things that benefit a broad swath of the community and there are also things that that maybe people don't want to live next door to but because they benefit a broad swath of the community folks like you have to kind of decide where that's gonna go and you may wish that the dark side of the moon was available for development it's not so you got to figure out where in Norman you're gonna put these things and there was a there's a lot of work as Heidi mentioned done to find the appropriate location and that's what this Bud does for us.

Now it's gonna benefit the 2000 or so people it serves in a year directly by meeting their basic needs and moving them towards housing but it benefits the other 128000 of us here in in Norman if you're one of those folks that are uncomfortable or scared or angered by the presence of homeless people on our street this facility helps with that problem.

If you're one of those folks who, for moral or philosophical or religious reasons, feel like we have an obligation to care for the least of these, our brothers and sisters, this facility does that.

So it spUD will enable us to have a facility that will benefit the entire community.

And so I would urge you uh to vote yes on the spud.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else that has not spoken on this item that would like to speak?

Please come forward.

On the rezoning for the Spud James Cromer or five or three and a whole bunch of others.

We have four Air B's over there in the same area, but here's the whole deal.

I used to lease that land to cut hay off of it.

It's a swamp land, and here's another city project that's gonna fail.

Check, do core samples because it's nothing but a soggy bottom out there.

Check it out.

We're tired of spending money for stupid engineering mistakes.

Thank you.

Um I have a couple things I'd like to mention, neither one of which has anything to do whether the shelter should be here, specific about this plat and the spud application.

Uh first, zoning changes usually accompany a plat.

This property is unplatted.

Apparently, the city is exempt from plating.

Um the plotting process often identifies issues and requires applicants to address those issues before it even comes to planning commission.

And I guess the city gets to skip that.

So there's pieces missing in this application by not doing a plat.

Second, uh SPUD or PUD always seems to have a site plan that regulates the project.

The SPUD narrative in this one references a preliminary site plan that's subject to change.

How can council pass a PUD referencing a site plan that would change in the future?

This is the zoning document.

That would allow changing the zoning ordinance effectively with no public hearing.

This application and narrative and site plan probably would have never made it to the planning commission agenda if it was any other applicant.

Some quick deficiencies.

Staff can correct me on that if I'm wrong.

The entire site plan appears to be designed around the floodplain, but there's no mention of the floodplain in the spud narrative.

The area shown as floodplain and floodway are based on a 2008 FEMA map that specifically excludes the entire Griffin campus, which drains into Bishop Creek.

Really vote however you plan on voting on this.

But the floodplain stuff is interesting.

I mean, the site plan could have been modified since planning commission.

Happens all the time.

Nothing was modified since planning commission.

It has 850 feet of chain link fence running through the floodway.

Why wasn't that moved?

So I know there's an urgency to get this done.

I understand that urgency.

But this is a zoning document that stays forever.

So I hope we get it right the first time.

Because it's hard to go back and change once you build the building.

Thank you for your time.

When you have questions about zoning and open ends, and just like the man said, things come in later, get put in that, well, it's too late.

Got a whole packet full of them.

Same thing right here.

There's questions being asked, not answered.

Why are we gonna go through with this?

Why don't we wait until all the questions are answered and do it at one time?

Go for it.

I just wanted to come up and make a comment after I heard about the uh comment that was made about the uh land being a floodplain swamp.

And uh I've lived at uh on Stewart Street, about five blocks from the shelf uh the food shelter for about seven years, and um that flood canal that comes off of Bishop Creek and uh goes all the way to the river, uh runs right in front of my house.

And on three different occasions when we've had some terrific rain, we've had flooding in our neighborhood.

So this is something to consider because there is some flooding that happens there.

I've seen it myself, and then there's been times when that uh canal is just looks like a uh rapid river running with all the water that runs off of it.

So that is something to think about.

Um because we've had uh my neighbors now we're we live on kind of a high spot, so we're not too bad, but there's some neighbors that have gotten water in their houses, and there's a bacon lot there at the corner of Stewart and Comanche.

It looks like a lake when the waters get that high.

So y'all think about that, okay.

Thank you.

Please before my time starts.

Uh we can ask questions or we can't ask questions.

Okay.

And then there is a chance to talk about encampment uh policies and ordinances later, correct?

Yeah, okay.

Just wanted to make sure that is that is the case.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Just wanted to uh to clarify.

Um I guess uh I was a little bit uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jackson and uh uh the ward of the world or uh human being or humanity, and and then specifically if you want to zoom in with a camera, it would be ward four, uh somewhere around Flood and Maine.

So I guess I was uh uh a little bit concerned at what I would call um an anti-social city agenda uh that I I happen to see tonight, and it's trickle down psychological effects that I've been seeing in my very short time in Norman here.

Um, specifically for a city that has a hundred million dollars general revenue fund every year, and uh uh 300 million dollars that it spends taking just five hundred thousand dollars from a soda company to plaster their name on a water tower.

That is the height of absurdity.

Maybe I don't know much about absurdity, but to me that seemed like a bad deal, and city sells out water to soda company seems like bad PR.

Uh there was not a chance to discuss it.

I asked somebody else in the audience whether it had ever been discussed before in this forum.

So this was not about the rezoning.

The way that it relates is, and thank you for the segue, friends.

Uh talked about soggy bottom.

Is he gonna talk about the germane item?

Yeah.

The way that it relates, and uh thank you for introducing the notion of soggy bottom.

Uh people have been very critical, as you probably will see, of the market socialist company country, uh China, which I'm sure you've all heard of, losing 30% of market value in homes uh in the past, recent past, so that now a home costs the same amount as it did in the 1990s.

That's good for some people who want to buy a home and stay in their homes.

I think that people here love their neighbors, and I think that people here in Norman love their homes.

And I am too concerned about what happens on a daily basis, but I think people here might love their property values a little too much.

So, in a market socialist society, it's worth noting because this may be the only opportunity that counselors on the dais get to hear about this stuff, because you guys have busy lives.

Markets and financial institutions exist not as the ultimate good, but they are a tool in order to have a regulated tightly and democratically decided, as in certain mechanisms it is in China, as in certain mechanisms it is here, society that can be deploy those tools for those purposes, not for the end of ever rising profits and property values, because that puts us into not just crises like the 08 crisis, but otherwise.

So this sort of love of property values is something that people who are in encampments now, they're not ignorant of.

Okay, they're not helpless, ignorant.

They may have learned helplessness because of the psychological effects of that problem in our society, but they can tell you very much the name of my favorite party, which is the rent is too in the relation to the rezoning.

So this you've got about 30 seconds left.

I had about 30 seconds for it's cut off.

And this uh, what do you call it?

Rezoning of a spud plan is certainly going to help in that regard.

My question would be what is going to make it different from the property just north of there where you had cameras and fences and that type of thing.

So if anybody on the dais can answer that, I would be appreciative because it seems like it's rebuilding just about the same thing.

Uh for this, by the way, Russell Rice Word 2, uh, just for everybody else.

The land is known to be 33% floodland.

Uh for 77% of it is not, so that they are building on that part of it.

And that information was put out to uh the public in the many meetings ago in the executive room back yonder.

So uh, and then also uh answers some questions about uh why some things aren't being done yet because it's not funded.

Some of the things can't be done yet because it's not funded, they can't keep track of everything because it's not funded.

It's hard to do that whenever it's not funded.

I mean, yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else that has not spoken on this item that would like to speak?

Mr.

Johnson.

Okay, Rodney Johnson War II.

I just had a couple of questions really.

Um, I understand this is rezoning.

We all know that this is where the homeless shelter is gonna go.

We had a vote on it.

Um we bought the land.

Um, it has nothing to do with our morals or our religious convictions because we're gonna try the best we can to help our homeless neighbors that we have in our town.

We've already made that decision, it's gonna go here.

Um, so that's not what we need to discuss in this planning commission, or I'm sorry, in this city council commission for rezoning.

The here's my question.

Why does the rezoning have to happen now?

Because to me, it seems like you can rezone this over the next, I mean, call a meeting anytime, if you city council meeting, and rezone this at any time.

Why is the first step not speaking with the neighborhood and getting something in writing?

And to me, I think my fellow citizens that live in that neighborhood are giving up something that uh say a little leverage here, because they're the ones that are gonna have to live with that, they're the ones that have lived with that for a long time, and you know, we're talking about property van uh property values and all that in that neighborhood.

You know, I would anybody that's been in that neighborhood, I would care to guess that you could go in that neighborhood and realize these aren't rich people, these are people that are trying that probably have most of their uh in or their assets in their property in their homes, and you know, I don't think we've done a good enough job in the past and uh understanding what that neighborhood has really um done for us and has put up with um for several years now.

So why can't the conversation and those type things that have the guarantees to the neighborhood and have more guarantees to the public start before you rezone?

So maybe there's a reason that you have to rezone now before you do those other things.

If there is, I'd like to hear it.

Um but to me, rezoning is just rezoning.

We know it's gonna go there.

We know what we're gonna do with it.

We know, and maybe some of these other problems also, as far as the floodplain and all those type of things, maybe those can be addressed.

Now a lot of people have stated that this is the first step, and they want to do this because it is the first step.

Maybe it doesn't have to be the first step.

I don't know.

But I think you should at least discuss that.

And uh I and if it if you can rezone and it doesn't have to be the first step, and things can move forward before rezoning.

I would suggest you vote no and you start the conversation and have something in writing, like Mr.

Bruce was talking about, and give those neighbors some type of guarantee because their property values are already plummeted with what they've had to put up with so far.

And um, I don't know, those are the questions I would have.

My time's almost up, so thank you very much.

Thank you.

Seeing no other public comment, uh final comments from council and got council member grant.

Yes, uh, I would like to recognize uh public works director Scott Sturts uh to answer questions about stormwater on this location, and then maybe a question for Mr.

Peerington about the plotting process.

Thanks.

Yes, ma'am.

Um could you speak to the stormwater concerns that uh members of the public brought up?

Yeah.

Public works.

Um basically what we're looking at here.

I think the main discussion tonight has been about the floodplain, that issue.

Uh, there's floodplain and floodway on this site, basically starting at the center line to Bishop Creek, and then it goes or this tributary to Bishop Creek, and then it goes to the west onto the property.

Uh, from early on, we identified that.

We knew that that was an issue that was at concern here, and so the site design has been purposely laid out in a way to avoid those two areas and not have an impact, uh, which is the best way to address those.

Uh basically, we don't have a direct rule, but we don't allow development within a floodway.

A flood way, by the way, is that area that will flood in an event that's there that we can guarantee that's the most inundated area, and then the floodplain is that area that will kind of spread out and take the remainder of that flow.

So in this case, they have totally avoided that uh that flood way, and in fact, even the floodplain area.

So that's really the best thing that I've got to discuss on that.

Um, you know, as far as the the area to the north on Griffin not being included, I can't give you a definite reason why that's not included on the mapping.

I could definitely look that up, but that area is typically cut off uh based on an acreage, and you have to have a certain acreage coming to an area before they evaluate that when they do floodplain mapping, and I think that's probably the main street just became that cutoff, but I'd have to look into that further uh to make sure that that's the case.

But we definitely have the floodplain identified clearly on this parcel, so from Main Street South on this.

And the way this is designed, uh you have that detention pond that releases at the historic rate.

Um, is anything that we're doing going to work in concert with the Bishop Creek uh Nature Park that we're also building to the south of this?

They're totally independent, but yes, the the because of the detention pond, so basically this will be designed in a way that will collect that water and discharge it at the historic rate at or below the historic rate.

Typically, you see just a little bit below because it's really hard to get it right on that number, so usually we aim for a little bit lower number.

Um, because of that, it's not gonna have more water going through at any one time to that location.

Uh, so they while they're not working together and they're not really tied in any way, that will uh minimize the impacts to that and on further downstream.

All right, thank you.

And then the next questions are for Mr.

Pierrington.

Um could you address the item about uh the plotting process and the city's uh fidelity to that?

Yes, so I think you know, council did get a contract for um engineering services like related to the design, um, and that would kind of customarily be going into a plat.

Um historically, no, we have not platted our own projects.

Um we just I I can't necessarily speak to the historical reason why that, but like legally, no, we are not required to uh plat our own properties.

Um you could also tell none of the property north of it is platted, state ownership, so uh it is just you know part of it.

So Crimson flats not platted.

It is platted.

Uh oh.

But it is private ownership.

It was city ownership, public-private partnership in that particular instance.

So the city did go through with the plat process as the city owned it, knowing that it would exchange hands um to a private developer in that process because it would be then private ownership, so that is why um we made the decision on that one to plat.

And then how much of this can change before it has to come back for a rezoning?

So um that's a really I think good question.

Those are set out, and um I have it right here.

Uh and you know, I'm somewhat uh, I think there was a concern about the fence and the floodway.

Uh it is a concern.

Um so that's going to be in six or thirty-six five oh one at the very last section, K administration, the planning director shall be permitted to approve minor amendments and adjustments to the spUD narrative or site development plan map, provided the following conditions are satisfied.

There's a list of conditions for fencing, for example.

Um, I think uh let's see here.

Uh screening and fencing requirements can be amended, provided amendments shall not substantially alter the spud.

So, for example, if the floodplain permit committee didn't want to permit it being in the floodway, um, what you might see is a potential amendment where that just drops over to not follow the floodway, but follows, you know, is in the floodplain, um, which is you know a little bit easier to do.

And so that line might need might not be a very straight line at the end of it, but it will look a little wandering with the stream.

So uh, but that is like maybe a small amendment that can be done administratively.

So, you know, yes, there are changes, there are um potential small uh amendments that are recognized with specific criteria that can occur in the code.

So just to be clear, if it requires a fence, it will have a fence.

Uh if there were to be no fence, it would have to come back before us.

Yeah, so what so that says that we will have a fence, the location of the fencing is you know, potentially shifting, um, could shift, and that could be like a minor amendment.

Um and Jane correct me on any of that if I'm wrong if she's here.

So uh, but yeah, that's kind of the process for that.

So there's no way to just take things out.

Uh I mean they can shift, but they if we approve it tonight, they have to be there, otherwise it comes back before us to change that aspect.

Correct.

Um so anything subject to the uh administrative um, you know, small adjustments, anything that would go beyond that would come back to you guys.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

And then there was a question about um the soil, and I would assume as part of the construction design process for this the testing the ground to make sure that it can support a building is something that is being done.

Because yeah, to my knowledge, nothing's ever been in this never nothing's ever been built on this piece of property specifically, and that I've ever seen any record of.

So typically before you go in and do any kind of building, go do some kind of geotech uh testing.

Uh, you're gonna test those soils, see what they what they really are, and that way you know, especially if you're gonna be doing paving because you want to be able to know to make sure you're putting in a paving uh system that's gonna be long term.

So I would anticipate that there would be uh uh some budgetary uh in this for the engineering to go through and do geotechnical uh survey of the area and make sure that the soils are are compatible and adequate for construction and design.

Thank you.

And then uh maybe for legal or for planning, but the question about why rezoning it now and why not later?

Um there was um uh recognition as to what budget resources are available while the ballot question still sits before the state supreme court.

Uh there were activities that we could undertake uh to get to um that building permit issuance as efficiently as possible.

The element for is our architect described, we have not yet engaged the civil engineer into the project.

That'll happen almost immediately following uh the final ruling of the state supreme court.

So uh all those activities will happen.

We're trying to move uh forward.

We recognize council's desire to uh replace the shelter on Gray Street in the most efficient manner possible, and these were steps that we could take with budgeted resources available and not waste any time.

Okay.

Any other final council member uh Grant and then Bruce?

Councilmember Bruce.

Yeah, uh Evan, if it's all right the asking.

Evan Taylor, yeah, even Taylor neighborhood.

A couple questions for you, sir.

I don't know that asking this would be the place to ask that to last.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This would yeah, not be the time for that to ask the resident now.

But there will be a time for that for sure.

Any other questions that you would have for your staff?

Answers to any of this question?

I'm sorry that I just uh I I uh just can take a moment here.

I I spent uh October, November, December hearing a bunch of concerns.

Evan, that's okay.

Evan, that's okay.

You don't need me.

Okay.

I don't think I can do that.

But I I heard a bunch of concerns from the neighbors that live in uh old township and other areas related to that strategic document and make sure that it gets done.

And I was very happy to hear tonight from Evan because I believe he's one of the leaders of the neighborhood, though, uh in that area.

And so uh I was very happy to hear that there is open communications with the city staff on the concerns in old township.

I would like to see something more than that, but I I understand it's coming in the future.

Any other comments from anybody else seeing none?

Okay.

The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast in the motion.

Sorry.

And the motion to adopt the ordinance on second reading section by section passes by a vote of eight to one with council member Kirby voting against.

I'll entertain a motion to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

Second.

The motion on the floor is to adopt or reject the ordinance on final reading.

Council members, you may cast your votes.

All votes have been cast, and the motion to adopt the ordinance on final reading passes by a vote of eight to one with council member Kirby voting against.

All right.

Uh item number 19 is an ordinance adding section 24-510 to chapter 24 of the code of the city of Norman prohibiting camping in the establishment of encampments on public property.

Prohibiting obstruction of public sidewalks, trails, easements, and access routes, providing exceptions, providing for enforcement, providing for severability, and declaring an emergency.

And I would like to recognize councilmember Gandisbury for a motion.

Yes.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I'd like to make a motion to postpone item 19 indefinitely.

Second motion.

Okay.

And the motion on the floor is to postpone the ordinance indefinitely.

Um do we want to take any public comment about that?

Or any other whatever you feel is mayor's appropriate.

Yes.

Okay.

Then is there anyone from the audience?

Is there anybody signed up to speak to the case?

About the postponement.

It is a postponement, so it'd be speaking on the postponement.

Yeah.

So I don't have anybody signed up for the postponement because they just are now.

Yeah.

Okay.

Would anybody open to the floor?

Like to speak on the postponement of this item.

Uh Russell Rice would too.

I believe that this should be postponed indefinitely.

Absolutely.

I think it's the best for the city.

Thank you.

Okay.

Yeah, I think postponing this is a great idea because I didn't even know what this was about or why this was showing up on the agenda.

I hadn't heard anything about it until I got a test message about it from somebody at church a couple of days ago that was asking me what this was and whether it was related to what it was related to, what it was about, what was going on.

So uh yeah, I think that would be great.

Thank you.

Can we get your name for a record, please?

Yep, just I forget I'm up here so often.

Electron Shaw ward six.

Thank you.

Anyone else would like to speak on the postponement?

Um yeah, it's me, Ward Six.

I think it would be a great idea to postpone it because at this point there is no alternative.

So I think until you can find something substantial that is a great alternative for our unhoused population, our unhoused friends, postponing is probably the best thing to do.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Alex Landfeer at Ward 2.

I agree with this postponement as well.

Um, I think uh this is antithetical to solving the homelessness crisis that we've been experiencing.

So please vote to postpone.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, please, Mr.

Taylor.

Hell again, council.

Postponement is a good idea.

Postponing indefinitely is a procedural move that kills something because there's no obligation that it come up again unless there's a new initiative.

And I think that's a mistake.

This is not an issue that's going away.

It's an issue that right now is being handled highly on a discretionary basis, which this ordinance didn't fix because it also made enforcement highly discretionary.

It didn't say who gets to decide.

It really sets it up for people to be treated differently.

And so it needs to go back for some work.

So postponement a good idea.

Postpone indefinitely.

I would urge you to vote no.

Put a timeline to bring this back to conference, discuss it some more because this issue is not going away.

Thank you.

Okay, another question.

Is this not a state law?

And don't we have to obey state law?

And are we um are we making our ordinance align with state law?

Now it if a postponement is is needed, maybe maybe you do that to maybe address some of the concerns.

I definitely wouldn't do an indefinite postponement if this leaves the city and those those certain homeless people.

Um threat of maybe the state coming in and doing what uh Governor Stitt did once already here in Norman.

And he also uh gave Oklahoma City and Tulsa money to help address their homeless uh problem, but didn't do anything for us.

So uh maybe uh if we uh align our uh ordinance with state law, which we have to do anyway, um maybe we can go back and uh try to get some of the money that I think is rightfully deserved to Norman for this problem if he gave it to Oklahoma City and Tulsa and worked with them and didn't work with us.

Um but you need to think about also um what uh implications are gonna be on the city if we don't align our uh ordinances with state law.

Um so that's the only thing I would add.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think your sprained angle is catching.

Uh that sounds like a very bad sponsorship deal as well.

Uh and also an incredibly bad headline.

Soonerville bans tent camping of people on land.

I mean, we should at least postpone it for a hundred years.

Um yeah, we should at least postpone it for the indefinite amount of a hundred years if uh if this is truly the Sooner state.

I don't think I need to explain the joke anymore.

Uh as as someone who was uh I suppose uh raised singing the sooner song but not born and bred here.

It just sort of doesn't make sense in my head.

And I think that uh a lot of people that uh that are our unhoused neighbors also think it doesn't make a lot of sense and are drawing their inspiration from those quarters as well.

So that's just my opinion.

Uh I had some more stuff written about uh the care with which Norman shows its unhoused neighbors, and I think you all have heard that.

People here know that, and I would hope that people throughout Norman, all 130 plus thousand, uh, and even throughout Cleveland County uh do also know that.

So I won't uh I won't belabor that point.

Um, but I will say that none of us, at least I don't, and I don't think anybody, I mean, you can shake your head yes or no as I go down, uh, Mr.

Gainesbury, uh uh Councilmember Deck, uh, Mr.

Bruce, etc.

etc.

Councilmember Grant.

I don't think you know what it's like to pop the blisters.

Are you in support of pop the blisters on your feet when you're in a can an encampment that might be broken up the very next day and you don't know because the thing has just been put up 24 hours by the city council that you don't have internet to watch the meetings, etc.

etc.

I don't think you guys do need to be explained that, but I also don't think you know what that's like because I certainly don't.

Um there is not an at-large uh seat for that type of thing.

So until that seat exists, Mr.

Mayor, we should postpone it.

Okay, that sound good.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um Gansbury.

I have Councilmember Grant first.

Yes, please.

I didn't know for sure not to go to public comments on the motion, but just for transparency of why I presented the motion for indefinitely to postpone, is because I truly am looking out for the interest of the city of Norman as a whole.

And there's actually, and I think Bruce might have been referring to this act earlier tonight, even is the Oklahoma State Neighborhoods Act of 2026.

Feel free, please go look that up and read it for yourself.

House Bill 3985.

Okay.

Within that House Bill 3985, and you can look and see who signed it, who tried to make it law, which of our representatives may or may not have signed it.

You look up all that for yourself.

But what that House Bill 3985 basically says that starting in November, when the law goes into effect, any ordinance that a town or city has on the books, then becomes what they are mandated to have to do.

Meaning that if we set this emotion tonight, and then in November, one resident calls us and says, Hey, what about this?

We have to go respond to that instant every call, or possibly get fined or sued by that individual and be taken to court as a city.

So until I can get clarification for our council for our city, for our residents, people in my ward, and protect our money and our interest.

I think as a council, I need to get us all more educated on what this is, what the legal standing is going to be.

And the reason why I asked for the indefinite part of it is for you, Evan and everything, is that with it going into effect in November, and it only affects towns of 130,000 or more, and we was at 128 on our last census.

So that means in four years at the next census, we will be held liable for anything that's on our books.

I'd kind of like to see other municipalities handle it legally and try to get sued by their municipalities and by people in their town and see how well this law actually holds up in court before put myself at the risk of that with our city funds and everything.

So that's the reason why I made the motion for indefinite law.

Okay.

Councilmember Grant.

Councilmember Grant.

Yes.

Uh thank you to Councilmember Gandisbury for bringing the motion.

Um, I'm supportive of indefinitely because I believe we have new council members, and I don't know what our schedule for discussion will be like in the next few weeks, it'd be hard to put a date certain on the next time we would put it on an agenda.

Um to our city attorney Knighton.

Uh because you wrote the staff report, and I believe you presented.

Um, when did that conversation on this particular item take place?

I don't know the specific date.

It was a couple of Tuesdays ago.

We had a study session that we presented both of these two ordinances with regard to camping, and then also with regard to some changes to our parks ordinance.

I don't uh do you remember if our new council was seated?

They were not.

Okay.

Um, so I expect in a new discussion with different council members, this could take a minute, and I also share similar concerns.

Uh speaking legally, what is on our books and what's enforceable.

Um, and also having uh alternatives to some people because I don't think anybody, especially I've heard it from PD, uh, tell somebody you have to go somewhere else.

They ask, where is that?

And they're like, I don't know, it just can't be here.

So if we eventually go down this path and put this on the books, I would like to have an answer uh for our public spaces where somebody can go if it's not a park.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Steele.

Yeah, so I I just had similar concerns to what council member Gansbury had, and in response to the indefiniteness of it.

Um I I don't want this to be an indefinite kicking the can down the road.

I think that we do need to talk about this as as soon as possible at the next available committee meeting that we can, and while the fire marshal may not be happy about, I think we need to be locked into that room until we come to a consensus so that we can address this and proceed as a council.

Thank you.

Councilmember Dixon.

Uh I'd like to make a motion to amend the postponement of indefinitely to make the postponement on the October 27th City Council regular meeting.

October 27th.

And we have um just for clarification, council member Dixon.

We have to vote on the indefinitely first.

So it would have to fail.

That was the original motion, though.

Typically, we have to we vote on the amendment.

And then go.

Yeah, I'm sorry, you are correct.

I forgot we didn't have a regular motion.

So do I have a second?

Second.

Okay.

Okay, so we can vote on postponing this item to October 27th regular council meeting.

Okay.

And then council.

And also Councilmember Gansbury has a question about that.

In order to assist and also with public concern and everything, I'd be willing to go along with that date.

That way we do have a date where the public doesn't think we are putting this on the backboard, and that it's not important to us.

And I can also agendize it between now and then to allow other council members.

Yes.

And then council could uh postpone it further at that point if we want to make the next one.

Councilmember Dixon, do you have anything further?

No, there's that amendment.

Councilmember Blockett, did you have a question before we vote?

No.

Okay.

And um, just for a little further clarification, I think city staff, park staff has been looking at this since the grants pass, Supreme Court case came down two years ago, I think, and um how that impacted policies like this, and um that's where it's come from anyway, but has not been discussed with new council members, and then there have been questions about this new state law and how if we were to codify this, how that might impact us.

So um I think it's definitely worthy of the conversation.

And if we postpone till the October date, then we can decide then if we're ready to move forward with a uh approving of policy change or um or codifying it or postponing it or denying it or whatever we want at that time.

Okay, so just for clarification, can uh council member Gainesbury, you would like to withdraw your uh motion to postpone indefinitely.

Uh with for procedure, I'll withdraw the motion to postpone indefinitely in favor of Dixon's motion.

Councilmember Steele, are you in agreement with that?

I agree.

Okay.

You say that into the microphone.

I agree.

Yes, I agree.

Thank you.

Okay, I just want to make sure.

Yes, is the answer she's looking for on the record.

On the record.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, so the motion you guys are gonna be voting on is to postpone um this item to October 27, 2026.

Um council's regular meeting.

You may vote.

Sorry, my mic went off.

All votes have been cast in the motion to postpone to October 27th, passes unanimously.

All right, and item 20 is uh sort of companion item uh ordinance amending section 2-316 and section 24-507 of the code of the city of Norman providing for oversight, prohibiting certain activities in public parks, prohibiting except providing exceptions, providing for enforcement, providing severability, and declaring an emergency.

And I would also like to recognize council member Gansbury for a motion.

Yes, sir.

The language of the item being comparable to the item before, I'm gonna make a motion to postpone until October the 27th.

Did you say second?

Second.

Got it.

And as it is a companion piece, uh, we'll go ahead and take a vote on that.

Just take the vote.

Is there any council comment about that?

Councilmember Bruce.

How is it comparable?

I mean, we're talking about different things here.

It's a companion item.

I know it's command, but how's it comparable?

Both items talk about camping.

And camping in parks.

Talks about canoeing and other factors of it.

But there is comparable language between the two of them.

So I would let the city attorney answer that, please.

Yeah.

Sure.

The way that these two ordinances were drafted, um, because we were talking about camping in public parks, this specific ordinance, there's a specific provision in the ordinance regarding Sutton Wilderness that prohibits camping in Sutton Wilderness.

And because we were contemplating a separate ordinance with regard to camping on public property, which Sutton Wilderness would be public property, we struck the camping language from the Sutton Wilderness Ordinance in lieu of what would have been the new language and the new ordinance with regard to camping in public.

So if you were to postpone the prior matter, and you were to go forward with considering this matter, you would be striking the ordinance prohibiting camping in Sutton Wilderness without something to replace it.

So you effectively would be enacting into ordinance that at least until you decided what to do with the prior ordinance that would be allowing camping in Sutton Wilderness, which is currently prohibited by the ordinance that's in effect.

So that's how they're related.

That's sort of the part that causes a little bit of difficulty with regard to considering this ordinance unless you consider the prior ordinance also.

So right now you have protection of non-camping in Sutton Wilderness.

That's correct.

Okay.

I got it.

Councilmember Kirby I just want to point out that we've had meetings about camping in private yards and nobody supported it.

We've had meetings about camping in parks, of which nobody supported we've had meetings about every type of camping in Norman, of which everybody said, you know, we need to do something about this isn't nothing that hasn't been done already in 132 municipalities or 150 municipalities over 32 states, and has shown very, very high rates of success.

So the public parks are for every single citizen in Norman, including the homeless.

And I don't see how this particular ordinance does anything besides just protect the public parks to make sure that every single citizen gets to enjoy them.

So I'm in I'm some supporting this ordinance if it don't get postponed.

Councilmember Dixon.

Uh thank you.

I yeah, this is like I mean, nobody brought up any of these issues all the time we were talking about all this.

Um and to just kind of try to pull to the last minute is really uh it's interesting.

Um now we're gonna allow camping in Sutton Park.

If we don't postpone and we vote to approve this, we would be allowing camping at Sutton Park.

No, no, if we approve it, we we're not allowing if we don't do anything, if we postpone it, whatever, then it's allowed.

The way I understand is if we postpone it, it's currently not allowed in that state.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Okay, I'm so sorry.

But because we didn't approve, or because we didn't take action on the first item, if we were to approve this item, it would I guess create some sort of gap in and that would it would allow it.

Okay, I will I will do better with turning my ears on.

But that was I mean, I then no, that's uh understandably confusing.

Doesn't take much to confuse me, so sorry.

I'm good.

Councilmember Dixon Steele.

Yeah, so just for further clarification, this this does to make some changes to Sutton that might be unintended because we postpone the item before this, and so as the the council member of the Sutton area, I just want to make sure that it it stays intact until we iron everything out.

That is correct.

Correct.

Yep.

So that's why I'm in favor of this postponement, so nothing changes about the Sutton Wilderness language currently.

Council and I'm sorry.

I would say too that uh expectation is not that we postpone this till October 27th and never discuss it until then it'll be um this would be on an upcoming study session um for full council discussion about uh or even committee, but one of those two full council discussion about how to proceed.

Councilmember Still, do you have to say yes as long as we kind of uh iron out, you know, basically separate the the two items so that item 20 could stand on its own, then I would be in favor of bringing it up even just at the next council meeting.

Oh okay.

Okay, councilmer grant.

Um the way the way I understood it is if we don't pass 19 that in passing 20, you would allow camping at Sutton.

I think if you were to hear that, even if you could got get no traction on October 27th with the previous one, you would probably have to pull out Sutton from that item uh because you don't want to pass an item where you're going to allow camping.

So I guess further discussion and a study session about what to do with that.

Um but I'm in favor of the postponement.

Okay.

All right.

If you want to um take comment.

Uh as it's a companion, we'll just go ahead and take the vote.

Take a vote.

Yep.

Okay, council members.

Um the motion on the floor is to postpone this item to October 27th, 2026.

You may vote.

Okay.

All votes have been cast.

Um, excuse me.

And the motion to postpone this item to October 27, 2026 passes by a vote of eight to one with council member Kirby voting against.

All right, miscellaneous comments.

This is an opportunity for citizens to address city council due to open meetings act regulations, councils not able to participate in the discussion.

Didn't miscellaneous comments.

Remarks should be directed to the council as a whole and limited to four minutes or less.

And who do we got signed up for miscellaneous comments?

Yes, Mayor.

Um Lisa Schmidt.

Lisa Schmidt Ward 2.

I'm here to sing the praises of the utilities services department in the city of Norman.

I was thrilled first that the city committed to picking up the debris.

I had a ton of debris and lost some really old big mature trees.

But yesterday I had a plumber out on a different issue who, and because I had water pouring out of a pipe in my house, and the debris was sitting on my water meter, so the plumber could not get to my water meter to turn it off to address my problem.

So I called the water main the line maintenance number, right?

Uh I was never put on hold.

I was people listened to me.

I tried to express the urgency of my situation, and I understood that there's a lot of demand and again hot people working really hard, but they were right there within 30 minutes with the contractor.

Nobody knew, and I could not remember where my water meter, which pile it was under.

I had five piles of debris in my yard.

Fortunately for me, it was into the next to the last one that they removed.

Uh so we did reach the water meter.

I was so grateful.

Everyone was so kind and professional and just right there and willing to stay and work until that was completed.

And I'm just really grateful and want to shout out to all of the people involved.

So thank you.

Great job.

Yes, thank you.

Marguerite Larson.

Sorry, I don't have any meeting.

Marguerite.

Yeah.

And then Mayumi.

All right, Larson, what six?

I I um I have input as always.

So going back to the problem that the proposed shelter is insinuating about water.

How about just planning a lot of vegetation?

People do that all the time.

Other places do it, other countries do it, other cities do it, and it really eliminates a lot of that problem with water and drainage and flooding.

So when you're thinking about this, you may want to initiate additional vegetation.

That's all.

Thank you.

Mayom Mayumi.

Uh hello again, Miami Windler Award 2.

Okay, so for the June monthly report, um for the general fund finance or uh general fund uh revenue and expenditures.

For the general fund finance or general fund uh revenue and expenditures.

So sales tax 410K off of the budget general fund 1.6 million negative.

But then expenditures were negative 7.84 million.

So yay, you were not spending as much money as you know, we budgeted, so that's good.

But just keeping an eye on it.

Thanks.

Thank you.

That's all I have, Mayor.

Anyone else that would like to make any miscellaneous comments, please?

Yeah, just one thing right Johnson Ward 2, one thing really quick.

Um I just checked, um, and it's about the same as it was when I was watching on YouTube all the time.

It's always about 75 to 100 people watching on YouTube, a lot more people that show up for our meeting.

And I have one question I'd like to ask each of you.

Can you please be louder and speak into your mic?

Because on YouTube you can't hear, and Mayor, your voice is really soft.

And so those people that are watching on YouTube, and for those people like me that are sitting out in the audience and didn't wear my hearing aids today.

Could you all be sure to speak into the mic and speak a little louder, please?

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think we are uh working on a project to update the uh system up here.

So hopefully, because the mics don't reach very far back, and we have to lean way up to get them.

And yes, I have a soft voice already.

So yeah.

Uh okay.

Yeah, yes, Mr.

Jewel.

Billy Jewel Award 5.

Last week I spoke about the uh site plan.

You yourself told me you'd look into it.

Has anybody done anything to look into it?

So far, the only thing we know that's been done was a city engineer was sent out there.

They had no paperwork, no site plan, and the man had no idea why he was there.

Why did we even waste our city money to send him?

Scott was told me a while ago that he was gonna have a meeting with me when this meeting was over.

I hadn't been able to catch him in his office either.

I got the paperwork.

Where's he at?

He's gone.

He told me, I'll meet with you when this is over.

When are we gonna do something about this?

Everybody says, Oh, we're gonna do something about it.

Crickets.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

Gary King Ward 5.

Um, yeah, just to follow up with Billy there.

Same, I know some of you guys weren't here back in December when City Council approved a property next to me, a hundred feet from my home to be rezoned for Western farmers and OEC for an electric substation, which they are gonna be using sterile chemicals, and all that is going right into our watershed, and I'm surprised that that this was I'm a prize surprised that this was approved.

Anyway, it's just like Billy said, Yes, I did talk with that engineer that was out there, and he didn't know why he was out there, so I stopped.

I did stop to talk to him.

He said asked me what my concerns were, and I said, Well, they have no exit for their water that they have blocked that used to run through this property, they've dammed it up, and they've created a little ditch beside me and them, and it doesn't go out to the street as I said last meeting.

Nobody's uh tried to fix this project.

Um I don't know if they're going to.

Um I I feel like that the city approving this should not leave me out there on my own to handle these problems that are arising every day.

This and there again, this was supposed to have been a 60-day project.

They started the first of April.

There goes my whole summer that I've had to listen to this nonsense.

And are we are we gonna address it or we're not?

Because I haven't seen any, I haven't seen anybody out there inspecting it other than that engineer.

And he didn't he didn't have any paperwork.

And he he was he asked me what my uh concerns were, and I told him.

And I I don't even think he knew why he was out there, and I and I sent him some pictures of the prof before and after the project had started and showed him how much water flows through that property that they have just created a dam.

And he said, yes, they do have a really uh bad issue with some drainage problem here, and he started taking pictures and took a picture of where it runs over on me on my lateral lines, and I thought that something was gonna get uh done, but is it I've asked for the city's help and uh I I'm not seeming to be getting it, so that's something needs to be thought about.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else with uh so uh blink twice if uh I'm never gonna get to ask a question about that 10-year deal with the soda company you can ask about it.

What will it be addressed again?

Um I don't think so.

So the contract's been voted on, because the first time I read about it was in the paper on Thursday.

I assume that's the first time other people read about it.

So I maybe I was wrong, maybe I've been out of the loop, but I I assumed there was going to be some discussion about it because it is literally the highest visibility thing in Norman, and you've now sold it out.

So anyway, I mean it's mind-boggling to me.

Even the oil people haven't put their drop on the building, which is a little bit higher, probably.

So anyway, that's just uh mind boggling to me that there was no discussion at all of it.

Uh, but I guess that's uh um that's my problem.

Um, in terms of the public uh park uh question that you had, Councilmember Grant.

Uh I've uh camped in public parks in the Midwest throughout the Midwest and Canada and the Northeast, and um I have been told that the state park is usually the option that to the answer your question about uh when what police officers are guided to say when they are trying to come up with an enforcement mechanism, and you probably know from downtown Norman that's like 10 miles away.

And I've walked 10 miles in Norman and Oklahoma City, and the blisters get even bigger, it's even worse on you.

Um the possibility for like actually um uh any sort of work that you're doing is then interrupted completely.

So please, if I win that trip to Mars before October 27th, you know, please consider that when you all are talking about that on October 27th, because the bus does not run out to Thunderbird uh at the moment.

I mean, if it did, that'd be great, I'd be able to go out to Thunderbird.

Uh, but uh it doesn't even run out to the public library at this point.

So Thunderbird seems like it might not be on this year's priority plan or whatever.

Um so uh either put it on there or postpone the October 27th discussion again.

That would be my comment uh because otherwise you're basically telling people, oh sorry, that's a you problem, not an us problem.

And from what I've heard from the council, that's not the ethos that you all are about.

You're about the community of Norman, everybody being part of that community and helping our unhoused neighbors.

So glad to hear it.

Thumbs up, stamp of approval, all that good stuff.

Don't go back on it.

Thank you.

Anyone else that would like to speak?

Public miscellaneous comment?

Yes, please come forward.

Yeah, Cross Burgess and Word 4.

I guess I also just want to ask, was there any?

I might be out of the loop like our last speaker.

Was there any public input about the water tower?

There was there were public meetings about it, but uh there was not a public hearing about it.

I guess then I feel like there should have been.

I mean, I don't know if the the city council's out of touch, but it is literally the first thing you see when you drive into the city here, and it's just kind of it's not the most important thing in the world.

Um I think the other stuff discussed today is is certainly more important.

But I don't think the city needs $500,000, um, as has also been discussed.

And if they do, we should have had at least some input about who we're gonna accept $500,000 from.

I think I mean hell, pay the city could pay $500,000 to a public artist to put a mural up there or something.

We don't need to give it to Dr.

Pepper.

Uh I don't know.

I feel like there should have been public input.

So that's all.

Thank you.

Does he think we're paying?

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

Um final comments from council board one.

Anybody else?

So thank you.

Okay, see you none from anybody.

Um I would just mention, because I was one of the driving forces behind it, but the discussion about the water tower.

So in our meeting prior to this one, we did have a um conversation about it that was recorded.

If anybody would like to go back on the YouTube channel and watch it, um, where we talked about the details of the agreement and the history of how we got here, and it really started about three years ago with a discussion about the water tower as it was showing rust, and uh utility staff actually had planned to allocate funding to go ahead and demolish it, um, which was uh in the range of a half a million dollars to tear it down.

Um it's been out of commission since 2010.

Um and from what we know, it is the oldest water tower still standing in Norman, and it's almost a hundred years old.

Um it's in an area that I personally grew up in, so it's been a prominent fixture in the skyline for my whole life, and uh close to the stadium in the duck pond and right it there on top of the hill with the railroad tracks and everything.

And so a couple years ago we started the discussion about what to do with it, and um as it wasn't in use anymore and uh was starting to rust, that's where utility staff suggested we should just probably tear it down.

Um, but pretty significant cost of nearly half a million dollars to do that, and just my personal preference about historic preservation and that it's a massive canvas.

The idea of, well, maybe we should not tear it down and um keep it and figure out something to do with it.

And so the initial discussions were about just uh repainting it white and putting Norman on one side and OU on the other side or the SEC logo or something like that, something pretty plain and generic.

Um and uh those conversations didn't really get anywhere for whatever reasons, and then um kind of went out in the community and pitched the idea to the arts council and different people in the community about we could do a mural or an art project or some kind of contest for it or something like that to preserve it.

Um there are cities all across the country that have done really neat art things with old water towers and make them look like a teapot or a rocket ship or something like that.

And so um uh one idea I heard was a contest where people pay a hundred bucks and then you get your name put on it, so they could have a couple thousand names just put all over it, you know, whatever.

So all sorts of ideas, but nothing really gained traction.

And then last fall, um, you know, the Fansville commercials during football season.

There's a water tower in the commercials that looks a lot like that water tower on Lindsay Street, and that was just one idea about well, the main character of those commercials is Brian Bosworth from OU, the sheriff of Fansville.

And what if Dr.

Pepper would be interested in uh this water tower and maybe doing something neat with it?

And uh there was a council member that had a connection with somebody who knew somebody at Dr.

Pepper, and they reached out and they responded and said, Yeah, we actually are we're interested, and we've been looking for a an old water tower to do something like that with, and uh we're very interested in partnering with the city.

So the agreement is they're paying us to repaint it.

Um instead of us spending half a million dollars to tear it down or us spending half a million dollars to repaint it.

Dr.

Pepper is paying us uh the amount basically that it would cost to repaint it and then put their logo on it uh for a span of 10 years, and then the city council at that time could decide to do something else with it.

Um utility staff has indicated that uh preserving the tower could keep it its future use for things like uh non-potable water, using it to water things like Reeves Park and the OU golf course and other things like that in the future.

So it preserves a piece of Norman history, it does something kind of neat with it, um, and it's an asset that we're not currently using for anything.

And I would probably feel different about it if it was something we were still in use about putting some uh you know corporate logo on it or something like that.

But this is a piece of uh utility that was gonna be demolished probably if we didn't do this.

And again, after two years of unsuccessfully trying to find some other uh idea to do with it, this is what came up.

And and so um I agree it might not Dr.

Pepper might not be everybody's favorite drink, it's not my favorite drink, but uh but anyway, it was an opportunity, it seemed neat, and um I could definitely see people coming around to take pictures with it and do neat stuff around it.

Well we did we asked about trying to put uh we wanted to fill it with Dr.

Pepper maybe and put a spigot on it but we couldn't so anyway that I just wanted to uh provide a little bit of insight on that and uh appreciate city staff and legal staff and council members uh support in pursuing this uh idea for the last couple years and and uh doing something instead of again instead of tearing it down uh figuring out a creative way to keep it so anyway if there's no other comment from anybody else then this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.

Yeah I think the command was thinking we're getting a