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Record of Proceedings

City Council Study Session on Fire Cost Recovery, September 29, 2026

Public Meetings & Live-Streams — Tuesday, September 29, 2026
BodyNorman, Oklahoma
SessionPublic Meetings & Live-Streams
DateTuesday, September 29, 2026
StatusFILED
Video Record
0:00 / 1:01:17

Original source
Transcript — VerbatimClick a timed line to jump · ⧉ to share it

Speaker numbers apply only to this recording.

Speaker 1

0:00

Yeah,

Speaker 2

0:00

ready?

Speaker 1

0:02

Let's do okay.

Speaker 2

0:04

All right, welcome to the city council study session for Tuesday, September 29th, 2026.

0:11

We have one item on the agenda, and it's a discussion regarding the use of a third-party vendor to recover costs from emergency calls.

0:19

And we have uh members of the fire department here, it looks like to lead us through this discussion.

0:25

So please feel free to join us, Chief.

Speaker 3

0:30

Council.

0:31

Uh we are here tonight.

0:32

I believe this started several months ago.

0:35

Uh council member Dixon, I believe, approached the city manager about this idea, and uh several departments in the state are doing this.

0:44

And so we were tasked with doing research and uh coming up with information to prepare and present to you on uh what a program like this looks like, and then the council can decide whether we want to push forward with this or not.

0:59

But an overview of it is just um fire departments are allowed to bill in the state of Oklahoma on certain calls.

1:06

Uh it it first started with um car wrecks, so those that are at fault could be billed for the time and materials that the fire department could use on a scene like that.

1:17

After further research, there's multiple types of calls that that a city could bill an at-fault person in a in a certain situation on.

1:26

So uh with me tonight, I've got Deputy Chief Chester, I've got assistant chief Smith.

1:31

Uh they're gonna talk about some of the technical aspects, and Chief Smith's here to actually we were having some technical issues earlier, so he's here to make sure we don't have those.

1:39

And and Chief Chesser was our lead on this project, uh, reached out to a third party company who assists in this, and then other fire departments that do this, and and was able to gather information, put the slideshow together here, then we'll be here to answer any questions for you throughout the presentation.

1:55

So, with that, Chief Chester.

Unassigned speaker

1:57

Good

Speaker 4

1:57

evening, council.

1:58

I'll try not to put you to death by PowerPoint here.

2:02

That's not my favorite thing, but that's about the way to present this.

2:05

So as Chief King stated earlier, this is just gonna be a presentation.

2:09

And if you have any questions as you're going through it, feel free to answer or ask, and I'll see uh I can get them answered.

2:15

Go ahead.

2:17

All right, so the company that we reached out to is fire recovery USA.

2:21

They're probably the largest one that does this type of stuff, third party.

2:25

Uh they help fire departments recover costs from emergency responses.

2:28

As Chief King stated earlier, uh you have the car wrecks and other incidents that they help with.

2:33

It interfaces with commonly used records management systems to transfer data from nearest.

2:38

And so what that basically means is currently we're using emergency networking to log our calls and put that information in, and their system would mesh up with our system and could get that data.

2:50

But there's a little something called an interface in there that you have to work out, and it's basically how software communicates with each other.

2:57

So there's some technical stuff that has to have some oversight and management when you put it together.

3:02

Um this is a funding alternative with a no upfront charge to the department.

3:06

So when you do sign these contracts, there's you don't have to, you don't have there's not a uh subscription fee with this.

3:13

Um I'm gonna have to dig in a little further uh and see exactly they told me 20 percent, but when I read through some of the documents, I see 22 percent.

3:22

And what that means is off the gross billing, they're gonna be taking either 20% or 22%.

3:27

There's a couple of discrepancies.

3:28

I I need to get some clarification on

Unassigned speaker

3:30

that.

Speaker 4

3:31

Um

Unassigned speaker

3:32

it

Speaker 4

3:32

said that FEMA's published an update to their funding alternatives for emergency medical and fire services confirming most cities have the authority to pose direct charges.

3:40

That's the document and and the date there.

3:42

If someone wanted to look that up, they could.

3:44

As Chief King stated, it's currently used by some Oklahoma fire departments, and it's commonly used in cost recovery for automobile accidents is the most common.

3:52

Next slide, please.

Unassigned speaker

3:55

Okay,

Speaker 4

3:56

so toxin incidents that can be billed.

3:58

Um I've kind of put these over in primacy.

4:00

Motor vehicle incidents, hazmat, fires, water incidents, and special rescue.

4:05

The last three are pretty uncommon, and if you go to the next slide, I'll I'll talk about those.

Unassigned speaker

4:11

Uh

Speaker 4

4:11

motor vehicle incidents, this is the most common.

4:17

Ouch shutting down.

4:19

We've got plan B.

Unassigned speaker

4:20

That's why we brought it up.

Speaker 5

4:21

Oh,

Speaker 6

4:21

yeah.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Fire Department Operations█████████████████████████████████████████████71%
Public Safety████████████████25%
Contract Management█2%
Technology and Innovation█2%
Summary of Proceedings

City Council Study Session: Third-Party Fire Cost Recovery Discussion – September 29, 2026

The City Council held a study session on September 29, 2026, where Fire Chief King, Deputy Chief Chester, and Assistant Chief Smith presented a proposal to use a third-party vendor, Fire Recovery USA, to recover costs from at-fault parties in certain emergency responses, primarily motor vehicle accidents. The presentation covered billing mechanisms, mitigation rates, potential revenue, administrative impacts, and policy concerns. Council members discussed insurance implications, equity, staffing, and public perception, ultimately directing staff to gather more data and revisit the topic after additional study.

Discussion Items

  • Proposal Overview: Fire Recovery USA would handle billing for qualifying incidents (e.g., auto accidents, hazmat, illegal burns) with no upfront cost to the city, taking 20–22% of gross billing. Integration with the department’s records management system (Emergency Networking) would require an interface.
  • Potential Revenue: Based on 284 auto incidents in the prior year, the estimated gross revenue was $234,130, with a projected net of $182,000 after the vendor fee (calculated at a 90% recovery rate). Chief Chester noted that the actual national recovery rate is 50–75%, and it may take up to two years to reach full revenue realization.
  • Mitigation Rates: Standard rates were presented: Level 1 (basic response) at $637, Level 2 (with cleanup) at $726, with higher rates for vehicle fires and extrication. Rates are based on national cost data and can be customized to reflect Norman’s actual costs. Council member Grant requested local cost data for a recent multi-vehicle accident at Highway 9 and 24 SW.
  • Scope of Billing: The presentation focused on auto accidents but also identified potential billing for hazmat incidents, illegal/control burns, and water rescues. Deputy Chief Chester noted that most departments limit billing to auto accidents to avoid complexity, but hazmat billing was discussed as a way to recover high costs.
  • Insurance and Public Impact: Council members expressed concerns about potential insurance rate increases and whether fire response costs are already included in insurance premiums. Council member Margaret questioned whether residents would see this as “double billing” after paying sales tax (PSST). Chief King acknowledged ambiguity but noted that vendor claims rates won’t increase, while some insurers suggest otherwise.
  • Administrative Burden: Chief Chester warned of significant training and oversight needs, including documentation by fire captains and interface maintenance. Fire records management already requires substantial staff time, and adding this program could require additional positions.
  • Equity and Billing Concerns: The city would need to decide whether to bill uninsured motorists. Council members Curry and Dansbury argued against writing off uninsured individuals, while others worried about discriminatory billing. Council member Deck also questioned the high projected recovery rate in the presentation (90%) versus the more realistic 50–75%.
  • Comparisons to Other Cities: Guthrie generates $20,000–30,000 from a similar program but has lower call volume. Tulsa began a program only in January 2026 and has not yet released data. Council members suggested obtaining Tulsa’s contract and year-end data before proceeding.
  • Hazmat and Special Cases: The discussion highlighted the growing cost of hazmat incidents, including electric vehicle fires, natural gas leaks, and university-related incidents. Council member Kerry supported billing for hazmat due to high expenses and easier fault determination.
  • Revenue Destination: City Manager noted that revenue could be dedicated to a fire department account, similar to the hotel bed tax, with funds appropriated in the following year’s budget after collection.

Key Outcomes

  • No formal vote was taken. Council members generally supported further study rather than immediate implementation.
  • Staff will obtain a copy of Tulsa’s contract with Fire Recovery USA and request data after Tulsa completes one full year (through December 31, 2026).
  • The issue will be brought back for discussion when staffing concerns are addressed and additional fire stations (10 and 11) are online. It may also be referred to an ad hoc committee.
  • Council member Grant emphasized the need for cost calculations based on Norman’s actual response data, and council member Bodger requested clarity on whether fire response costs are already included in insurance premiums.
  • The City Manager suggested that any future program should target provable negligence (e.g., hazmat, illegal burns) rather than routine auto accidents, to minimize public backlash and administrative overhead.

Meeting Transcript

Yeah, ready? Let's do okay. All right, welcome to the city council study session for Tuesday, September 29th, 2026. We have one item on the agenda, and it's a discussion regarding the use of a third-party vendor to recover costs from emergency calls. And we have uh members of the fire department here, it looks like to lead us through this discussion. So please feel free to join us, Chief. Council. Uh we are here tonight. I believe this started several months ago. Uh council member Dixon, I believe, approached the city manager about this idea, and uh several departments in the state are doing this. And so we were tasked with doing research and uh coming up with information to prepare and present to you on uh what a program like this looks like, and then the council can decide whether we want to push forward with this or not. But an overview of it is just um fire departments are allowed to bill in the state of Oklahoma on certain calls. Uh it it first started with um car wrecks, so those that are at fault could be billed for the time and materials that the fire department could use on a scene like that. After further research, there's multiple types of calls that that a city could bill an at-fault person in a in a certain situation on. So uh with me tonight, I've got Deputy Chief Chester, I've got assistant chief Smith. Uh they're gonna talk about some of the technical aspects, and Chief Smith's here to actually we were having some technical issues earlier, so he's here to make sure we don't have those. And and Chief Chesser was our lead on this project, uh, reached out to a third party company who assists in this, and then other fire departments that do this, and and was able to gather information, put the slideshow together here, then we'll be here to answer any questions for you throughout the presentation. So, with that, Chief Chester. Good evening, council. I'll try not to put you to death by PowerPoint here. That's not my favorite thing, but that's about the way to present this. So as Chief King stated earlier, this is just gonna be a presentation. And if you have any questions as you're going through it, feel free to answer or ask, and I'll see uh I can get them answered. Go ahead. All right, so the company that we reached out to is fire recovery USA. They're probably the largest one that does this type of stuff, third party. Uh they help fire departments recover costs from emergency responses. As Chief King stated earlier, uh you have the car wrecks and other incidents that they help with. It interfaces with commonly used records management systems to transfer data from nearest. And so what that basically means is currently we're using emergency networking to log our calls and put that information in, and their system would mesh up with our system and could get that data. But there's a little something called an interface in there that you have to work out, and it's basically how software communicates with each other. So there's some technical stuff that has to have some oversight and management when you put it together. Um this is a funding alternative with a no upfront charge to the department. So when you do sign these contracts, there's you don't have to, you don't have there's not a uh subscription fee with this. Um I'm gonna have to dig in a little further uh and see exactly they told me 20 percent, but when I read through some of the documents, I see 22 percent. And what that means is off the gross billing, they're gonna be taking either 20% or 22%. There's a couple of discrepancies. I I need to get some clarification on that. Um it said that FEMA's published an update to their funding alternatives for emergency medical and fire services confirming most cities have the authority to pose direct charges. That's the document and and the date there. If someone wanted to look that up, they could. As Chief King stated, it's currently used by some Oklahoma fire departments, and it's commonly used in cost recovery for automobile accidents is the most common. Next slide, please. Okay, so toxin incidents that can be billed.

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