Good afternoon.

I'm gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order this work session.

Uh if you would please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you.

Um Councillor Colbert, would you lead us please?

I think to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

You may be seated.

See I just need to grab them.

I don't know.

Ah, there we go.

Perfect.

Okie doke.

Let's see here.

Got a couple items on the uh work session agenda.

The first item is New Mexico Department of Transportation.

Do we have everybody here for that?

Okay.

We're good to go.

And uh if you'd like to come to the podium and make your presentation, that'll be great.

Oh, where are I turning three?

Assistant district engineers, Mr.

Greg Clark, who in charge of uh assistant district engineer for engineering, and then Mr.

Isaac Chavez, who's the assistant district engineer for construction.

We're here to talk to you about the matter before you today on the agenda.

Thank you.

Okay.

Start off with Mr.

Car Clark giving a little bit of background on the on the issue you have before you today from the DOT perspective.

I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you, Greg.

Hello, Mayor, Council.

Uh my name is Greg Clark.

I was Paul Brasher.

We work under Paul Brasher, he's our district engineer.

We also have Mo, he's deputy secretary of the department here as well.

Um we are here to to um to to present the uh New Mexico 528 uh Pasea Riverside Intersection.

Um I uh um I I know it's um uh uh it's been uh lately in the news and um we we have been um at the department level have been working on this project over several several months um and um we we've hired uh test out a uh firm uh named parametrics and um what what they've done is uh do us they did a signal warrant analysis for us to see uh what the intersection uh what was going on with the intersection um we did have uh some p uh some handouts I don't know if you got them if you get them to the clerk she'll be if you'd hand them to the clerk she'll get them to us uh I think BJ was making some copies okay okay great apologize for that um but um uh so I can just kind of describe the the area um so the vicinity is on along 528 and um on the south that's uh bound by Iris um and Riverside intersection and to the north it's Hydalia and Willow Creek and both of those intersections are are signalized uh before and after the Pasea and Riverside uh intersection um it was brought up to our attention um several months ago that um uh there were there was some accidents uh in the area so we um as a department uh uh passed out um one of our on calls to to restudy the intersection to see what was going on uh with it um that took several months because we had to the consultant had to uh recount the corridor recount the intersections and um that happened that took place over several months um and um so so a little bit of background for uh what what has trans transpired what was taking place in terms of previous studies um it was it was studied back in december 2014 and then again on February 2017 and then we had a traffic volume redistribution in October 2017 and then now in October 2025 uh again it was recounted again um every year since 2014 the volume along 528 has has increased um from nineteen thousand five hundred and twenty fourteen up to twenty one thousand five hundred vehicles per day that's an average annual daily traffic so it's a it's a yearly

Um it was it was studied back in December 2014, and then again on February 2017, and then we had a traffic volume redistribution in October 2017, and then now in October 2025, uh again it was recounted again.

Um every year since 2014, the volume along 528 has increased from 19,500 and 2014 up to 21,500 vehicles per day.

That's an average annual daily traffic, so it's a it's a yearly count, um, a yearly average over the days.

Um so um that's what the traffic projections were, and then um so looking at that um based on that we test out parametrics, they're a local uh engineering firm to uh recount the the the corridor plus recount each of the intersections and um we've asked them to do to look at rig and re examine uh the signal warrants uh for the intersection as well as uh crash data uh analyze crash records.

Now the crash records um all we have is available right now is from 2019 through 2023.

We're always a year behind uh because of um reporting through uh the UNM records uh department, it's always a year in our traffic safety division.

So I don't have 2024 data or 2025 because we're we're still in 2025.

So um so the crashes were analyzed during this period of 2019 to 2023.

Um so um I can go over some of the statistics and the crashes.

Um going back after the traffic was recounted and the intersection was recounted, uh we asked the consultant to do a signal warrant analysis, and what they follow is the METCD 11th edition.

It's a nationally adopted criteria, and it has nine warrants is what they call it uh warrants, and um uh like warrant number one is an eight hour vehicle count, second was four hour peak hour, pedestrian volume, school crossing, those kind of things.

And um the traffic volume has to, there's some thresholds set for each warrant, and um and and the traffic volumes and the TERT movements in order for the signal warrant to be met has to exceed those threshold values.

And um so as a result of that, going through uh the latest traffic count now, um the intersection right now as it sits, it does not meet the signal warrants during the weekday hours because we we did extend it to a weekend count uh as well as the crash data for the weekends as well.

So uh usually our typical analysis just includes the uh Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday during the weekday, but in this case we extended it to the weekends to include Saturday and Sunday as well, uh, because that was consistent with the previous years in 2014 of what they did.

So we just wanted to make sure we're comparing everything.

So the results came back and during the weekday it uh the intersection did not meet signal warrants for the week weekday.

However, it did for the weekend on Saturday and Sunday.

So then we started looking at that and saying, okay, what what is going on on Saturday and Sunday?

So um, and so that so that was a that was uh an analysis point that that we were looking at.

We um just had that on our backside there that it's meeting on Saturday and Sunday.

So then we looked at the crash data, and what what um there was 25 crashes that occur between 2019 and 2023.

Of the 25 crashes in the intersection, 11 of them happened on Saturday and Sunday.

So that was a a big uh data point that was an outlier in in our case.

So we said, okay, what's going on on Saturday and Sunday?

So um, so the consultant looked up and we were looking at, and there was um there's three churches in the area um just west of uh 528 that's accessing the traffic is accessing Pasea and 528, and we noticed that the traffic crashes happened during service times.

And um that's uh that's presented on one of my slides in the in the handout.

Um so that was uh that was a data point that um we needed to look at and um so um as I mentioned it the signal warrants met on the weekends because of the higher traffic turn volume from Pasea Um, you know, off of 528 into Pasilla.

Um so I think that's what was triggering the signal warrants for the weekends was the was the traffic trip generations from the churches on Saturday and Sunday, and then the crash data correlated with those times as well.

Um so that's that's the driving factor that comes out of the analysis.

So we were looking at possible solutions.

So we had uh over the past couple of months, we our our staff, our traffic engineers met with the police department, City of Rio Rancho Police Department just to see what they were seeing.

Um and uh we we did meet earlier um last week to come uh present some possible solutions or findings in the interim.

Um right now the intersection does not warrant a signal, but we were proposing some interim conditions in the meantime and uh to to to help with this uh this problem, you know, on the weekends.

Um and we're we're um we're we're looking at it as a safety, we're trying to increase safety, you know, as as much as we can with these interim solutions.

Um and I call them interim because ultimately they should be a signal at some time down the road, and it it it could be it could be five, ten years from now whenever the warrants uh are met during the weekend.

Um so um on on one of my slides, one of the solutions for the weekend since the left turns out of PASIA and onto 528, we were going to propose some delineators to be installed in the intersection of Pase and 528.

And one of one of my PDFs um shows that um that that layout for the for the delineators there, basically candlesticks that are in there in the in the intersection.

And what it does is um it would cut off the left turn lanes from uh Riverside onto or Pasea onto 528.

And um in doing so it would prevent it would it would encourage a right turn right in right out of Riverside onto 528, and that motorist would have to go to the next signal up, which in this case is idealia, I believe.

Um yeah, I daily, and then make a U-turn and then come back down.

That's what we were proposing in terms of this of this movement here with the delineators.

Um and that that's something we can install pretty fairly quickly.

Um the next step would be to add additional striping and increase visual friction, is what we call uh visual friction.

Um and that can't be done because of temperatures right now, so it's more than likely will be done in the springtime.

Um so we would um the second PDF of the next page would show some striping applications and a possible beacon there at the intersection.

Um the it would it would really beef up the the striping um and the and the signs as well in that in that intersection.

So that would be the second application we we would come in in the springtime for this intersection.

Once those two things are done, then what we want to do after that is analyze the intersection uh let the traffic calm down and get used to the applications and then come back six months to a year later and recount it again to see if um if things have have taken effect or helped the safety of the intersection.

Um so those things that we were we were proposing, that's that was being analyzed and hashed out um over several meetings internally and externally.

And um one other thing, the um Cervio Rancho was working on some possible speed cameras, uh, but state commission has to approve that before those can be uh uh utilized for this corridor.

And we're hoping the speed cameras can be put out there immediately before and after this intersection.

Um but um uh state commission needs to approve that.

Um that's in the works right now.

Um so the speed cameras with the delineators and the restriping and the remonitoring, that's that's our steps going forward to help the safety of this intersection.

And that's all these discussions have been taking place over the um at least the last three to four months in September.

Did the state commission meet this morning?

They did, yeah.

That's right.

I just figured that maybe special meeting was uh Mr.

Mayor, can you please turn on your microphone?

Of course I can, thank you.

So uh my question was with the state commission met this morning.

Um was the City of Rear Rancho's request for um allowing the cameras on 528 was that on the agenda this morning?

It was it was an informational um tab.

Uh the commission needed some more data and and BJ and uh Officer Pope and and uh City May Manager were all there and presented it to the commission and they took the information and now they think the next step is to come back in January or February for actually uh uh approval of that.

But some things have to be worked out with the commission first.

So uh that's where we're that's where we're at right now.

And and I I appreciate that, and I was hoping this the secretary would be here today too.

But uh because when we did the public meeting a few months ago over at the church at uh on Pasea.

Yeah, you know, the the secretary said you can put these out on 528.

And I questioned him about that and said, Can I?

And he said, Yes, as long as you go through all the processes.

And I'm like, but that's not what the people in this meeting heard.

They heard you can just do it.

Oh, yeah.

And so and we're so we're we're submitting the paperwork, and we're just wondering how long this goes, because you know, one thing that did catch us off guard was uh one one time they weren't allowed, and then the next thing you know in Bernalillo County they were allowed, and we're trying to get caught up on this, and it seems like that all went through pretty quick.

Yeah, and we're trying to get all the paperwork there, and it's not making the agenda, so I'm glad that it made the agenda today.

But uh I just like to, you know, uh, because there's a lot of people that are saying that we're lying, right?

That we can that we can put those out there because the secretary said, Oh yeah, you can put those on 528, and yeah, and we can't.

Right.

We can't, not until the commission absolutely approves a plan to do it.

And I think there needs to be clarity around that because it put us in it put us in an interesting situation when he said you can put those out there, and the truth of the matter is we cannot.

So you're absolutely right, Mayor.

Um I apologize, Secretary Cernak couldn't be here today, he was sick.

Um, but um, but yeah, it's going through the process now, and it was formally reintroduced today.

And um there's some internal um we're trying to get uh consistent um approval process with all agencies really.

That's that's what we're at.

That's what's the underlying issue.

So um so it is going through the process now.

It was introduced as an informational item today, and now it's it'll come back in January or February for for commissioned approval.

Although quite quite frankly, with based on the report numbers that I've seen and some of the traffic data that I've that we've accumulated over the last few few months since that meeting through patrols and and basically just speed monitoring from through the police department, so on and so forth.

Um can you talk about that corridor and that speeding is really just because there was a big push to reduce the speed limit in that meeting.

The public was saying, hey, reduce the speed limit, reduce the speed limit, reduce the speed limit.

Okay.

Um you know, what's the data we've been seeing as far as speeding goes?

Because uh the data I'm seeing is speeding is not necessarily the problem in there.

You're you're correct.

We we've been looking at the crash data and the traffic volumes uh and the speed, and uh there really isn't a speeding problem through there.

It's it's matter of uh of uh safety.

My point is I'm drilling back because this gives us a dual talking point here, is even if we did put the the the cameras were out there, it doesn't there's not really a uh there's not really a uh a behavioral issue to solve there.

Yeah, you're absolutely on the speeding side on the speeding side, yeah.

It may reduce traffic a little bit, but what you know um, but but not like a drastic reduction, you know, because right now the it doesn't the the data does not indicate that there's a speeding problem, and that's based on Ashtoware where we use Astro Safetyware.

It's a um it's a nationally recognized it's through federal highway that we use these tools, and um so really um we're not I mean there's not a safety, I mean there's not a speeding issue, so we have to as indicated by the data, um, so we are addressing the safety part portion of it and trying to limit the the turn movement out of Pasea.

I'm gonna defer to this point to counselor list because this is her district, and and uh I know she probably has a whole slew of questions on this, but I just wanted to hit that that that speed ban thing real quick here because you were there with me when Secretary Cerner said, Oh, sure, you can just put them out there, and it really communicated a message to the public that we could do it, and in reality we couldn't.

So I wanted to make sure with you here we had that that that clarification.

Uh yeah, right.

We cannot put them out there until we receive permission from the commission, and it required us submitting a plan to garner permission.

That's that didn't get said in that meeting, and I wanted to make sure that that got outlined.

Yeah, that that's absolutely correct.

Okay, because when we left that meeting, a lot of people called us and said, why don't you just do it?

Oh, and we're like, we can't, but the secretary said you could.

So just wanted to get that clarified.

Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, you're you're absolutely correct, Mayor.

Um, yeah, every every speed camera um has to be approved by as it sits right now.

The procedure is every speed camera that comes in within the district here has to go up for approval, and the and there's a two-step process.

We have to introduce it in an informational part and then come back at a second time for actual action to approve it.

And that's the process.

But we're we're we're caught up in a uh with multiple requests from multiple agencies right now, and every and it and there's no consistency, so we're trying to make a consistent uh process.

Um and uh so we're we're we're working that out right now.

Um but um but at the at the end, um any any any speed camera as it sits today has to be approved by state commission, our state commission.

Yeah, counselor list.

Hello.

Uh real quick, I want to also acknowledge and thank Representative Martinez for being here.

He's been a huge advocate and uh very invested in this situation.

Uh I am the counselor in this district.

I actually live right there.

I utilize this intersection uh on a on a regular basis, um, and I receive all of the nasty emails.

So I would like to before we begin kind of piggyback a little bit on what the mayor said, um I was really frustrated in the meeting that was held.

Thank you for holding it, and thank you for coming and speaking to people.

Um, but I do think there were several inferences made in that meeting telling the public that the city should be doing some things that we weren't doing, and that was extremely um inaccurate and very very unfair.

One of the comments that was made was that we could have RPD out there patrolling.

Well, they do patrol and they do catch speeders and they do write tickets, like they're doing their job.

Um, and then the other was these speed cameras.

And the mayor did very quickly say, excuse me, um, since when and how does this happen, and can I have it in writing?

And so I think that that got reported very quickly back to our city staffers, and our city staffers immediately back in the summer, like June-ish, started this process, except for the process didn't exist in writing, and so it was a matter of waiting for an actual what do we have to do to make this happen.

Then they did all the things that they were told, and then by happenstance, they found out they were on an agenda, so they showed up to a meeting to which they were told, oh, yeah, we we haven't figured this out enough, we can't actually talk about it, see you next time.

So then if it was heard this morning, fabulous.

But my understanding is now we have to send staffers to Bloomfield in January to potentially get approved for this.

So I just really really want the people to understand that while there's a hiccup on your side, and I'm not trying to throw you under the bus.

The city has diligently been trying to do this.

Right.

And I want all of our staffers to know that we know you have been doing this, and I appreciate you.

Yeah, um, I think that some of the things um that you guys have also talked about.

I'm I'm sadden that Secretary Cerna wasn't able to make it here because he very much presented very in tune with the people and very much wanting to do things, but I know his term is up.

So, what is a transition plan look like?

We all know that a lot of times in these types of positions, one person walks out the door, the new person comes in, and it may take a year before this becomes on their radar.

That's not gonna work for us.

So, what is the transition plan for this particular situation and how do we keep this moving forward without losing mental momentum?

Well, I I I hope to be around uh first of all, but we have Commissioner Chenowith, she's our district three commissioner, so she's very involved in in our process.

She sits on the commission meeting, uh commission uh uh board.

And um so you know, if something happens, you know, or things change, you know, uh we we will be there at the district level to help things through uh as well as Commission Chenowitz.

I I know she was uh uh pretty uh vocal about you know getting this through as well, you know.

Right, and I believe she was at that meeting as well.

She was there, yeah.

Yeah, so uh I just want to make sure because we're still having hiccups.

Um I would like to know when and if you would be willing to host or attend another public meeting so that you can deliver this message to any of those same people that want to show up because I don't know that they're all tuning into this work session.

And I think that that is fair and owed to them.

They were very, very invested.

And so if you know it can be coordinated again, is that something that you're willing to do in a reasonable amount of time to come back and and share with the residents what your your messages and why and hear their feedback?

Yeah, I would I would uh would I would think we'd be open to it as long as things are you know handled on a professional level, right?

And um uh I will talk to we will uh we will we will coordinate with uh Secretary Cerna and see if he wants to um come back at a second time to present uh what what I just presented now.

Totally fair and totally understandable.

Um and then I I saw some of the things that you presented and maybe I didn't hear it all correctly.

You said that there would potentially be a U-turn at Idelia, but I think you meant or did you mean IRIS?

Because the U-turn at Iris then puts us where the fire station is, so all these folks are gonna be doing a U-turn at the same intersection where the the fire station is gonna go, and it does that matter, is that not problematic?

Well, we want we wanted to turn Pasea and Riverside into uh right in right out, and then so any traffic coming in to 528 would have to make a right turn and then go to Iris to make a U-turn or go the other way from Riverside out to Idalia.

Correct.

So all those U-turns at Iris, the fire station sits right there, and I I'm just curious if you feel in any way, shape, or form would that be problematic to them being able to execute their job?

Because um the concern is initially we're gonna have some car accidents with people figuring that out, and um we have now blocked rescue and fire from getting to where they need to be.

Um the we we've ran the turning templates, so there's enough air uh asphalt area for the motorists to make that U-turn.

Okay, but um I think we're gonna have to analyze that and see, you know, there during this um period after we do these interim fixes to see what when is the fire station coming in?

Or it exists there.

Oh, it's there now.

Okay, all right.

Um okay, we we will look at that and to that.

And I think it's about to expand.

No, is we're expanding yes.

A little bit.

Yeah, a little bit.

Adding a bay.

Surprise.

But nonetheless, I heard it was in the works.

I don't know how close to in the works.

Okay.

But just so you know.

So we will okay.

Okay.

Um so I would just like to make sure that that coordination or that is considered because it will be a little bit of a hiccup at least for some point in time.

Yeah.

Okay, thank thank you.

We'll we will analyze that.

We'll we'll keep an eye on all of this um going forward.

Um, but I I think Secretary Cerna, I think they made a commitment to meet with uh representative Martinez at a later time uh coming up in the next few months, couple months or January.

January is what Isaac is is uh telling me.

All right.

Um you know I I appreciate that.

Um I I think you also need to remember that you just publicly said in five to ten years that uh signal will be going in there.

I guarantee you the people in my district heard that and I guarantee they're gonna hold you to it.

So just plan your plan accordingly or be prepared to defend the why not because you you you set it on record and I promise they'll pull that up.

Um yeah, I understand that totally because um you know once it meets the signal warrants, then yeah, it it will be.

I understand, but again, you inferred that one's coming in five to ten years, and that's what got heard.

I I'm just on the receiving end of these emails and phone calls and confrontations, and I'm telling you what you just said and what they just heard, and I just want to hope that you are able to navigate this accordingly.

Um with that, I I appreciate you coming today.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Tyler, Mr.

Murray, thank you.

How are you?

Good.

How about you?

Thank you.

Couple questions for you.

Um do you know about how long the stretch of 528 is from Idalia to Northern?

What is it?

Roughly eight miles.

Uh daily to northern or northern.

Um idealia to Pasea is about 0.8 miles.

So I daily at T IRIS is about 1.6 miles is under two miles.

Oh okay.

So what I'm just saying, what I'm trying to do is 528 is a real long stretch, and we probably have what maybe five traffic lights.

Maybe, right?

So are all the roadways in the state of New Mexico governed by the same rules when it comes to traffic lights and turn signals installation?

Yeah yes, sir.

It's uh it's an MET CD standard that we must follow.

And all the lights in the state and in on any state highway have to abide by the exact same rules as we do.

So why is it that there's seven stop lights on 550 between 528 and the freaking river?

Um at one point or another it it would have met the signal warrants at one time.

I'm just wondering.

I'm just wondering what their crash data looked like between those two things.

And I'm wondering if all the roadways in the state of New Mexico are held to the same standard, why is that one different?

Um Yeah, that those are our standards that that we do that we do follow.

And we we have to answer to federal highway on it as to the answer.

I I don't have a specific answer for for that situation.

You know what I'm saying?

Have you been through that cluster of stoplights?

Yeah, there's a lot of but then I guess where I'm going with this is is that I don't know what their traffic looked like before they put in all the businesses, and because it seemed like that that was put in for business necessity, it wasn't put in for safety.

And I think public safety is way more important than the business.

But that's just I digress on that piece.

But I'm just I'm just wondering if all the highways are the same, heck, I can't even get a stoplight at up on 550 where people are getting killed.

So I just wonder what it takes to get a stoplight.

Obviously, this isn't it.

Do you I I would agree with you that the speed is not gonna solve the problem?

Speed van, you can put we can put 17 motorcycles on there, and we're gonna pull people over left and right.

We can put 31 speed count, it's not that.

What I think is going on, it's depth perception.

When people come out, and if you're going 55 miles an hour, when people come out and they look left and right, you can't and a lot of the folks that are going to the church, some of our, and I'm one of them, some of the depth doesn't work as well.

Right.

Now you can go 65 miles an hour because the red light cameras or the speed bands are gonna allow you to go 11 over.

So if you're at 65, you're increasing by 10, which is gonna be within the law.

So I don't think that the left out or the ride out or all the little speed bumps or all this little fluff that you guys are putting on the road is really going to solve anything, other than probably create, and just in my law enforcement experience, when you send another traffic diversion down to another intersection to make a U-turn, you've now just passed the buck, so to speak, because now that intersection is gonna become the problem because those people are gonna be making U-turns when they probably shouldn't be because they're in a rush because now they couldn't go where they needed to go.

So it seems to me, I mean, if I was the state of New Mexico and I'm just kind of looking at this, and then I look at the you know, like the six stop lights where they're not a necessity for safety, um, and we're trying to do something for safety here.

I just take a look at it, and I'm like, why why can we not put a light there?

I mean, it just it seems to me it's a safety concern.

It seems to me that it would solve a problem.

Um instead of passing the buck or just trying to make things go away.

And so I don't know what it is that you all can do, maybe maybe look at those stoplights and see what process they did, because maybe we can use the same dang process, because obviously it's not.

Yeah, I I don't know what the process that they went through on that, but we do we do have these standards that we have to follow in terms of warranting a uh a signal, and it's the signal warrant.

Six in a row.

Yeah, I don't know.

I can't after I can't answer what happened there.

Um I can.

But anyways, um I just I I think there needs to be a better plan.

And I think that um I don't care what all your little traffic studies say, I think these people deserve a stoplight there.

That's the way I look at it.

And uh I know it's not my district, um, but uh it it is it is the city of Rio Rancho, and I am concerned about those people and their safety.

So thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Oh, I'm sure from your district or the church.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, part part of the signal warrants, yeah.

The signal warrants do meet on the weekends and but not on the weekdays.

So we're if we put in a signal light, it would be working for those two days and the other days are affected.

Then then the other days it would blink yellow.

It would blink blink yellow, um, or yeah, probably flash.

Well, maybe that's a start because then if we could get a stoplight in there, just a stoplight and get all the get all the infrastructure put in, and on those weekends when those 11 track crashes happen, then we can actually stop those 11 crashes, and that blinking yellow would warn people in that intersection.

See, now we're getting somewhere.

I think that's a doable thing.

Putting a traffic light in there where it functions on the weekends, and on the weekdays it blinks yellow.

I think that's kind of cool.

And and that gets us somewhere.

And and that's what the signal warrants are telling us, or well, let's put in the traffic light that does just that then.

The heck with all the fluff that's in the middle of the road that doesn't do anything.

You know, that's what I'm thinking.

But thank you very much for that comment.

I'd love to see that traffic light put in there so it works on the weekends then.

Mr.

Mayor.

Counselor Weimer.

You spoke about these um delineators.

Can you describe what those are for me?

What little white are the plastic things or fiberglass things that stand up?

Yeah, they're like the candlesticks that stand up.

They're like 36 inches high.

And they're like a white plastic curb and and then there's a vertical element to it.

But they are meant to fall over if they ran over if somebody ran them over.

And how successful have you found those to be?

Um we we've applied that at the same application on 599.

We have a similar situation as this on 599 at District 5, and that's what was being utilized.

And it's effective.

And do they get run over and break and park?

It's a maintenance problem.

It becomes a maintenance item.

Because I just anticipate that's exactly what's going to happen.

Um then secondly, with regards to those, has there been any discussion with the public safety folks, the police and fire about blocking access to that intersection from left turns?

Or is the intent that the fire trucks run over those?

Uh well, no, um we've had a meeting with uh with the police department, yes, City of Rachel.

Um as a result of you know that meeting, we would want to you know do these applications, you know, for the candlesticks, you know, to present that left turnout onto 528.

We want to do the delineator um application.

And so the police were okay with these delineators.

Uh yes, I yeah, I believe so.

I I I ask because we're often asked why can't we put speed bumps on our residential roads?

And the answer is because the emergency vehicles don't want to have to be slow slowed down, and I see that as one very distinct way they're gonna be slowed down.

Yeah, and you're you're correct, the EMS, that's problematic for EMS as the speed humps are um but but in this case we're we're trying to address safety and um and and by doing so we're installing these delineators to increase safety to redirect the left turner to one of the signalized intersections is what we're trying to do.

Yeah, I I understand what you're trying to accomplish, but are you solving one problem at the expense of another problem?

I that's I'm just asking the question, and maybe Chief Wenzel can can speak to that or if you if you've not had a chance to review this, I'm not I don't want to put you on the hot seat, but okay.

I I guess I'm just saying that should probably be revisited and just make sure that the emergency emergency response folks are on board with this solution.

Yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Councilor Cobreth, Counselor Lynn Time, Counselor Dabson.

No, we're all good.

Okay.

Um just a couple quick things for myself uh on the delineators.

And people are gonna turn left out of there anyway, and it's gonna create another obstacle.

I will say I am very concerned in a corridor, whereas Councillor Tyler mentioned, speeding is not really the issue.

But I I do agree depth perception is, and not every one of these intersections has D cell lanes or merge lanes, right?

They don't have that extra facility.

Right.

So if we're gonna push all this down to these stoplights, I think in these particular uh areas where the stoplights are, I think they do have D cell and and and acceleration lanes.

I I I'm not sure, but I think those two do as well.

But just really makes me nervous that you're running traffic at 55 and you're telling people go down here and make a U-turn and go up here and make a U-turn.

It it it for me, and and I don't know what safeguards you can put in there.

Once again, striping if the point is is to heighten people's awareness, um, you know, uh creating you know visual friction, as you said.

Um visual friction, uh people get used to that stuff, and they you know, they at some point in time.

It's like painting crosswalks, you know.

You people get used to them, they just keep going anyway.

Um so I'm I'm I'm I'm not gonna I'm I'm just gonna state that I I'm a little concerned about pushing, you know.

Uh I don't know how many cars come out of that church, those three churches, but pushing them all down to intersections at this time of day.

Um and so let's say you have 30 cars that push down to if you come off of if you come off of Pasea, and everybody makes a right hand turn, because there's no left option at this point.

So that's it.

Now you have 200 cars that have pressed down to Riverside that are fighting for their moment to make a U-turn to come back.

Yes.

That's that's a lot to take off of this intersection that would disperse some of it right now in this current configuration, pushing it all down to a single flow of traffic that is there for one specific reason, and that's to make a U-turn at Riverside, once again, which is an intersection that houses uh a fire department.

Um that that that that e that egress out of that neighborhood is used constantly by the fire department.

Um or pushing all this traffic if they decide not to do U-turn, pressing it all into on the riverside, and then they take riverside all the way back around, and now they're racing through a residential neighborhood to get back around.

What's that?

Yeah, so I mean I can see the different things that are emerging from that, and I'm just I'm just a little concerned about that because I understand while the sick the signal doesn't warrant the traffic uh on weekdays, this just really I'm I'm concerned that exacerbates the situation because it takes all of the traffic from the churches and pushes it all to Riverside.

Okay, it doesn't it doesn't disperse it at all, right?

And um it just it just moves it all down here.

So anybody that needed to go to the north or get across to Riverside is gonna be pushed down to this intersection.

And I think the I think the accidents that we've seen, and and I can you know the one accident that was a T-bone, they were trying to they were trying to shoot across 528.

Yeah, they were trying to come all the way across.

I think that's a very dangerous move without a light in either way.

But in this particular case, we're pushing unless you say U-turn on on Green Arrow only, um you're gonna have a line of traffic from Riverside all the way back to Honduras sitting there queued up, and because there's not enough in that left-hand turn bay to hold that kind of traffic, you're gonna push that traffic out into a travel lane, and it's gonna stop that.

And if you have traffic that's coming over that hill and coming down from Idelia and they're not paying attention, you've got a stop line of traffic there that could create a multi a multiple vehicle pile up from uh from a rear end of somebody that wasn't paying attention because they were on their cell phone and looked up and didn't realize that traffic had come to a complete stop because everybody's waiting their turn to throw a U-turn.

So that I just want to I don't know, maybe that's that's not something you get in a data report.

Uh it's just something that you kind of think this is a possibility, and and I think it lends itself to that possibility.

So I would just be curious if you do push all this traffic.

Do we have a total count of the cars that came out of there that made a left during these time periods?

You see what I'm saying?

What the left motions, because it's all the left motions that are gonna end up back down at this intersection.

The rights not so much, they can stay in the right-hand lane and they can just go wherever they're gonna go.

Yeah, but anybody that was either going straight or making a left is gonna end up down here.

Did we get any kind of a count on that?

Um we the the uh consultant probably counted that in their traffic data.

We just didn't pull it out.

Um, but I can get that information though.

Because that's the number that is gonna impact Riverside, right?

Which I believe at this point, if you're gonna throw that much traffic into Riverside and put that kind of stress on that intersection, right?

Now we need to do a study on that intersection.

Right.

Um we would need let me let me ask let me go back and we can pull that information out that left turn.

So and and I know you I know you want to jump in here, but I just have one thing.

So did I did I did I did I stimulate some new thoughts here?

I don't know.

I'm sorry, Mr.

Mayor.

I didn't mean to do that.

Well, no, but it it actually is fabulous conversation.

So um I implore you before you walk out today, I I have you asking you you need to put a date of with the calendar with uh Chief Wenzel before you leave this building today, um, because you will actually disable that entire fire station with everything that's been discussed today because the riverside loop is the only way for them to get in or out to get to people.

So if you block off with 200 people trying to do a U-turn, they're gonna need to go the other way.

But now you've just put barricades and candles, sticks, and all this junk in the way, and they can't get the fire trucks out.

Or you've now put 200 extra cars going through my neighborhood, which is gonna be fabulous, and I'm positive we will hear from every single one of those people.

So I I implore you to have a conversation with them because my priority is not disabling that fire station.

My second priority is not annoying the neighbors and keeping everybody safe.

So I am now completely a train wreck with this whole idea.

I would just like you to know.

Mr.

Mayor.

So and oh I had one more thing.

I I let me let me put so on the U turn.

I just want to know what kind of U-turn protections are gonna be put in at these two intersections.

Um again, but if you put in if you put in U-turn on Green Arrow only, it's just gonna stack the traffic way up.

And it's gonna take it out of the out of the turn bay.

And it's gonna put it into a through lane that that's gonna stop traffic.

So then somebody not paying attention, yeah, it's gonna end up going right in behind somebody at 55 miles an hour.

Um and then I still continue to bring up this question, and I know this was a pilot program from the past, that we really should talk about bringing it is allowing this corridor to be designated as a safety corridor.

Um that was you know, I've I've I've seen a few of the safety corridors around the state where it says traffic fines doubled.

Um meaning you gotta pay attention when you're in this area, and it seems like it would be a great uh place to do this with all the residential roads that come out onto 550, especially the ones that don't have D cell lanes or don't have uh merge lanes, uh, that you're just coming right out on the 550.

Right that you know, safety corridor, you need to you need to pay attention.

Right.

You don't be on your cell phone, don't don't be texting.

And and once again, let me go back and say this to you guys.

I know all the things that you do, you you have to go off of data driven decisions and you have to go off of data, and I get that.

And so I do appreciate all the work that you all have done, but we're gonna bring that human emotion side into it a little bit, as you've seen here.

Yes.

Because that's the that's the side we're gonna get from our constituents.

We're not gonna get the data.

Oh, okay, the data works.

The only data they see is a car full of dead people.

And that's that's all they need to see right there, and that's all we need to see is some of our community members, some of our neighbors are no longer with us.

Right.

Um, and so this is a very big wide intersection that people shoot across.

Right.

Um, and uh that make left hand turns, limited visual uh opportunity to the north uh as because you come over a blind hill.

Um so you and and when you when you throw somebody in there that it might be speeding, it throws all of the timing off.

And as uh as uh uh counselor Tyler pointed out, uh depth perception is huge and not understanding how far away that car is how fast it's moving, and do I actually have time to get out and and merge and and and make a successful turn there?

So I would really like to if we if there is a way that to do a traffic signal that just operates on the weekends, um you know, I'd love to see something like that that would help with that.

Um, you know, and then uh if it's if it's flashing yellow um during the rest of the week, then then great.

I'd love to see something like that if that's an option, and I'd like to explore that more.

But uh those are the things that I think immediately just would show people that we're we're trying to do something here, right?

Right.

So marking it as a safety corridor.

I think putting up the candlesticks and saying, hey, well, we don't trust you to go left anymore, so we're gonna push you down here and see if you see how well you do with a U-turn.

Yeah.

I I don't I don't know how well that's gonna work.

And and but I appreciate all that you guys are trying to do.

I don't want to I don't want to let all this go by without us acknowledging that you're putting a lot of work into this and you're you're trying to get you're trying to help us find some solutions.

Yes.

Uh but I I see, like I said, Sunday morning.

I I think the the first day we have this blocked off.

I guess Counselor List and I can go out there and see how far this traffic backs up for a U-turn and and then does that create a whole new problem at that point because you've backed it up into a traffic lane.

Yes, yes, Mayor and Council.

Um I won't be able to find that to see it on the traffic.

Oh, okay.

Um what there's a couple of things, other things too.

Um when these churches went in, they have a they have it they generate traffic, right?

Right.

Trip generators.

There was no TIA that came for each of those churches that came to the department.

That's a problem.

That's part of our approval process.

Now the TIA, what it would identify, okay.

I I try I generate this much traffic.

You're gonna we have to make improvements to the intersection.

Well, that didn't happen.

So that's a problem.

Um and follow not following our processes, you know.

Um what we would do.

Would that have been the churches uh or the the city at that time?

Because those all those went in long before my day.

Yeah, probably mine too.

I I don't know how but here we are.

Here we are.

We can we can say it was done wrong then, but here we are.

Yeah, we can't ask them to tear the churches down.

Right, no, exactly.

Right.

Uh we're just trying to fix the traffic trip generator issue now.

Um so that's that's one thing, and then the other thing, too, since it is happening on the weekends, Saturday and Sunday.

We were also gonna propose maybe the churches can work together and maybe hire uh the Rio Rancho Police Department for traffic control or some other mechanism for traffic control during Saturdays and Sundays.

That's not wise.

That's gonna put them in harm's way for no reason.

We're not gonna do that.

That's not that's not a wise thing to have traffic guys out there at 55 mile an hour standing in the middle of I-40, basically.

Uh we're not doing that, not to our guys.

Okay.

Um because that was in comparison to like the Sagebrush Church on the course.

That's what they do.

And and we've and and we've looked at uh we'll we'll have we'll have the the PD kind of look at and assess that along with the council and see if that's uh you know we could we can look at that.

But I understand that as well, Mr.

Uh, yes, Counselor Tyler.

Lieutenant, will you give me uh or someone from the PD kind of chief?

Give me your overall.

We haven't asked you guys yet.

We're sitting up here jammering around, and it's you guys are the one supposed to be doing all this.

He's our traffic lieutenant too, so he knows how many tickets it write.

And they need to write more.

Uh good afternoon, uh Mayor, governing body, counselor Tyler.

Thanks for uh asking us to come up.

Uh I just want to say a few things.

I can say my piece, and then I want to bring up uh Lieutenant Pope, who is our uh supervisor over our traffic unit.

Uh he has some facts.

So uh I do understand now that uh Lieutenant Pope did work with DOT and some of this.

And uh one thing I want to say is when we started looking at 528 and coming up with a plan, uh we were looking at the speed and getting our speed cameras out there.

This was before this this other issue came up at all.

So I have a feeling that when Lieutenant Pope was in those meetings, uh they were kind of geared more for this specific issue instead of the ginormous issue we have along 528.

Uh, one thing I will say, I am totally amazed at looking at his stats from our uh uh speed trailers that we put out.

We put them out in ghost mode so they didn't show and so get hopefully get a more accurate uh speed count.

Uh just the sheer number of vehicles that go through that area to be was astounding, and it's only growing.

Uh so I heard what you said about uh perception being a problem in that area.

I do believe it's perception, and one thing I'm afraid of and listening to everything that's gone on is if perceptions an issue and we're turning them right and then making them do a U-turn.

What's the perception at that intersection?

I mean, I go home that way.

I I hit ours and uh 528 going home every day, and just watching people make left turns is horrible, it's scary, especially my daughter-in-law, but that's neither here nor there.

So no, no.

So uh one thing I do want to say, and I I don't want to, I'm not trying to write checks that uh chief has the cash over there, but you know, we put up those um lane delineators and all.

If if FD doesn't run over them and they have to go down, I don't know how they're gonna do a U-turn in one of those trucks.

I mean, our officers would be able to do it better in a car, but still under emergency driving situations, it's not ideal to me.

Uh I I'm not a big fan of making them hook U-turns at Iris, and I just wanted to get that out myself.

I would like to uh bring uh Lieutenant Pope up to kind of give out some of the uh stats that we have, and uh again that that particular area doesn't show a tremendous amount of speeding compared to other portions of 528.

So I just want to bring them up, please.

Thanks, Chief.

Thank you, Chief Mayor, Counselors, thank you for having me.

Uh basically we did two different studies, two different points of the year at the beginning of the semester as well as the end of the semester around school time.

So this was done between March, late March, as well as the beginning of August.

Both times we put our trailers out, and I'm sure you've seen our trailers or message boards, speed trailers.

We do have two of them.

We put them in ghost mode, and during that time, we were able to capture eight different locations, both north and southbound in certain areas.

So for context, uh 528 and Pasea area, uh, we did monitor both north and southbound on different dates.

Uh during that time, the post-the speed limit for both north and south is 55 miles an hour.

During that time, it was captured at 55.6 uh for northbound and 54.9, which is the speed limit.

And that is nearly 60,000 to 80,000 or 80,000 vehicle or 80,000 vehicles traveling northbound on 528.

Obviously, southbound it's a little bit different because everyone's headed towards 550 because they're making their um normal commute.

Uh you're looking at 40,000 less.

And during that time, we're still looking at 55.5 as well as 56.1.

So there are outliers, right?

You're gonna get your speeders and your occasional individuals that like to set the world record.

And I do want to uh um state that those uh trailers are put in ghost mode for a reason because we're not looking for the high score, but we're still getting roughly about 2,000 cars that are traveling 11 miles over the speed limit, and that's about three uh point six percent to 2.6 percent.

And during those times, um those are um different parts of the year, right?

And during March as well as late April, and then again we're seeing this in August and September.

So I don't believe um speed is necessarily the issue in this intersection, it's just the um the reduction would be helpful in this area, making a safety corridor, like you said, Mr.

Mayor, uh, would be something to maybe reduce it.

And that's something that we have been talking about.

Uh I have been meeting with um NMDOT because I mean this is something that we're trying to work together on making our citizens a lot safer.

And so this is a joint effort on trying to get these um in um these safety requirements in so that way we can um have our uh community traveling safely.

Uh we're talking about 550 and Northwest Loop, those were other and uh intersections that I I don't know if you're aware, but it has met the threshold for a controlled intersection, so those will be coming in.

There are um other issues that are preventing that a little bit longer.

I mean, obviously we will be seeing those um changes coming soon.

Um but that these are just different things that I want to indicate that yes, we're trying to deter.

We're trying to add extra infrastructure to add that physical um friction as well as that traffic calming, and these are different methods that do help it.

One thing I do know is those speed vans were a deterrent.

You would see it all the time where people would slow down, and our stats with our speed vans drastically reduced uh at the towards the end of the program.

However, with these new cameras that are up, it spiked again, and in two days, and just a one little intersection that had over a thousand citations.

LT, can't we just buy a whole bunch of like white vans and put speed van on the side of it, and even though it's not one and just put them out there as well?

Yes, we can do that.

Um but um I I do know that there is gonna be those individuals that are not gonna be paying attention.

I mean, I did pull over your um daughter in law that one time, but yeah.

But um yeah, these are this.

I just want to emphasize that we are the traffic section of my sergeants.

We are working with NMDOT, the networking efforts, and uh I I see your guys' efforts, right?

You're speaking for the citizens, but we're trying to make those improvements um right now, making those adjustments.

Um there is just a couple other data stuff.

L T let me ask you one question.

Um, and I appreciate all your efforts, you know that.

Um that the stoplight that we were just talking about, the one that would function on the weekends and blinks yellow on the weekdays.

Do you think that that would also would that help out at all?

I mean, it would have reduced obviously 11 crashes from happening, but do you think that that might help us on the weekends when we need it the most?

I do, and I believe this is another thing we're talking about.

Aerohood ridge, right?

That just came in.

We're talking about not a full access intersection, but something like we see a high resort in 528, a high T intersection.

This is something that we've been talking about as well at this intersection when it meets that criteria.

So we're not having those individuals crossing completely across the road, but then we have the uh safety like getting a fire truck or a police vehicle in those areas.

So cool, thank you very much.

Good and to that point, and we're gonna have to wrap up because we've got to get on to the next item.

But um, I want to thank everybody.

But to that point on the safety corridor, when we talk about the light at Northwest Loop, but I know that's not where we're here really to talk about, but coming down from the bend as you go along Enchanted Hills, uh you know, when people are pulling out of there out of enchanted hills and making a left onto 550, and they look right into that sun, they're not seeing oncoming traffic.

So the um you know, looking at that as potentially a safety corridor as well because of those all that residential traffic that comes right out on there, and it's the left outs that are the problem.

I won't attempt them.

I go down this I go down to to uh to uh safe light and I just use that light whenever whenever I'm in Chanted Hills.

Okay.

So uh okay because it feels so much safer.

One of the mayor and council I um the safety corridor, we are bringing we're we are bringing back the criteria for that um because it's been kind of dormant for a while.

Nobody's really used it, but it's it's there.

So we're working with our traffic safety division to bring that up and what the um uh thresholds or whatever is needed for that.

Um but the Northwest Loop and uh US 550 Northwest Loop that does warrant a signal.

Now we're working with the um your traffic division here at Rio Rancho, but uh also the developers in the area to work out some sort of an agreement to uh get that put in.

Uh intersect uh signals cost about two and a half million dollars.

Well I want to tell you I appreciate that because um that has been another intersection that I was concerned about in my district as well as hers, but that one is in my district, and I I appreciate all the work you've done on that one too.

And I know that it's gonna get done, but again, two and a half million dollars.

Let's get those guys to pay for it.

Yeah, and then we're working that out with uh hopefully with the help of the City of Aero Rancho to maybe help in that area to bring the three developers in to work out some sort of an agreement, and they're just waiting for the first person to go, you know, kind of thing.

So if they can they can distribute or share costs, then that would be a lot faster.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Perfect, thank you all very much.

Appreciate you guys and appreciate the tell the secretary we said thank you.

We know you guys are working, Paul.

Thank you.

I know you guys uh deputy director, appreciate all of you all for your hard work.

We know this is I we know it's a top concern for everybody, and we're just gonna continue to work together to figure these things out.

Thank you, Mayor.

Mayor, Mr.

Chair, Counselors.

Let me offer this.

I can't I can't commit the secretary's calendar, but I'll tell you what, if any of you would like to propose to have a town hall meeting with your constituents, we would be glad to attend two step through this with you for your constituents and respond to their inquiries and get this thing out in the public and maybe foster a better understanding of better understanding of the limitations that we all live under in resolving these issues here.

Let me mention one other thing.

Mr.

Clark mentioned that in Santa Fe in District 5 on New Mexico 599, which is the relief route to Santa Fe.

There's an intersection called Via Veteranos.

We had the identity when I was a district five engineer, we had the identical situation where people would come out and make the left on the 599.

They look could presumably they'd look both ways, but go anyway and get and get hit.

We had a couple of fatalities, so we put up the candlesticks delineators, and we we cut off the left turns out of Via Veteranos on the five under 599.

We just took the decision out of the hands of the drivers.

And uh the intersection didn't warn a signal or an interchange at the time, and so we we closed the left turns, and these little candlesticks, little plastic things, as Greg said we're about 30 36 inches high or so.

I never heard from any law enforcement or first responders that they were an impediment and they caused them to have to make a want to make a U-turn.

They just they would just run them over and crush them the way the public does.

We ended up in district five.

We ended up replacing the delineators like every Tuesday.

Have our meetings, people go out and because people who disagreed who are gonna take traffic control into their own hands, we just run them over.

I've never seen a fire department or police department here that would let a delinear delineator or a chain link fence stand in their way to get you there, get to their job.

Okay.

But I appreciate it.

So we'd be glad to uh visit with you anytime.

We appreciate the coordination and the cooperation of the as always with the rear rancho staff.

Thank you so much, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Brash.

Appreciate you.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you all very much.

All right, I got to move on on the agenda.

Uh we have an update, uh, project ranger update.

Mr.

City Manager.

Mr.

Mayor, members of the governing party, uh good afternoon.

Um Chief Wentzell and I are gonna provide a quick update.

My first update will be actually on behalf of Alberto.

So I'm gonna read Alberto's talking points, but um his something uh he had to step out for family emergency rounds 12 noon.

So um and uh his his return is um he's hoping to make it back, but I don't know else.

So we're just gonna go ahead and uh and proceed.

So the uh first thing we'll do a quick update is on the community meetings.

Um, and I'm just gonna, if I may, I'm gonna kind of just read his his talking points here, even though I've seen them previously.

Um Mr.

Mayor, members of members of the governing body.

I'm pleased to provide an update on the Castillian Corporation community outreach meetings that the governing body requested at the November 13th council meeting.

Um the meetings were beneficial in providing further access to Rio Rancher residents at three separate locations on two different dates at three different times of the day.

Three community meetings were scheduled last week to provide an opportunity for residents to learn of Project Ranger directly from Mr.

Andrew Kreitz, the chief financial officer of the company.

Two of the meetings were designed to be drop-in office hour formats for face-to-face meetings, and we had planned had a plan a plan in place to pivot to an audience presentation in case of the two office hour meetings had larger turnout.

The third meeting was designed to be a presentation with a large audience.

Uh, the first meeting was December 9th at the hub in district three.

Uh there was actually 29 people in attendance.

Uh councilor uh Tyler was uh present and welcomed the attendees.

Um this was what we originally set it up for to be a small face-to-face office hours type discussion, but given uh the larger audience, we moved into the main portion of the library and treated as like more of a community meeting uh with a presentation um and then uh and you mr.

Uh Kreitz walked through uh a version of a uh a slide deck similar to what we saw here at the governing body meeting, as well as the uh um Northern Meadows meeting in October.

Uh then that was uh in the afternoon, I think uh one uh two to four o'clock was that one the next day at Star Heights in Council District 1 uh at midday, um mid-morning midday.

Uh the there was another meeting, uh, same approach set up for one-on-one, but also had room to pivot into a community presentation, and there was 19 people.

Uh Councilor Dapson was in attendance, welcomed the attendees.

Um, and then on December 10th, the third community outreach meeting was held at Mariposa Community Center, uh, the building that's owned and operated by the HOA, the community up there, um, you know, meant to be modeled, you know, similar to the uh Northern Meadows elementary school meeting.

Uh that had about 55 people in attendance.

Uh the room was full.

I was in the hallway the whole time, um, sitting on the uh bench press uh in the gym that's next to the uh to the I think you guys were in the yoga room it looked like to me from outside.

Uh councillor Tiger uh welcomed the attendees.

Uh there was residents of Mariposa in attendance.

Uh also the turnout included attendees that look like they um that came from outside of uh uh city limits and outside of Mariposa to ask some questions about the project.

Um in summary, the uh there, you know, in summary their observations and feedback from the audience of the residents of the communities in district three and one were appreciative of the access provided to them and uh appreciate the company for also making themselves available.

And um, as we've seen a few times now with Andrew, it's you know he's willing to talk late into the night um and uh to get the information out about their project.

They they were available.

Um Mariposa meeting had a lot of uh you know, I'd say um Councilor Tyler was in better earshot than I was, but maybe some um heated or you know, louder volume type questions.

Oh, yeah, it was very loud.

Yeah, and uh they you know definitely was willing to engage in the conversation but that just so you know though, Mr.

City Manager, that did not come from our residents, most of those heated conversations.

It's on but most of those didn't come from um our residents, they came from the the outside group of folks that showed up there.

Yeah, so um that's where most of the uh stuff and actually the county was there.

Masterson was there, and some of the other folks are there fielding some questions too.

So it was good.

It's fun.

Mr.

Mayor, members of the governing body, Chief Winslow.

I'll be getting you guys a quick update on where we stand from the fire protection um following our meeting from last month with the governing body.

So the new timeline that we have with everything we had the received a proposed MOU from Sandoval County administration on 1121.

We reviewed that, and then we scheduled an in-person meeting.

That in-person meeting was December 1st.

We had Sandoval County Fire, myself, uh my command staff.

We also had State Fire Marshal Office, and we also had Sandoval County uh Deputy County Manager Masterson in attendance.

We had reviewed the MOU and we sent back comments.

I sent back those comments to Sandoval County on December 10th.

As of today, we are still awaiting feedback from those comments that we sent back to San Diego County.

The review of those actual comments and the review of the actual MOU.

So we did an internal review with fire executive staff, command staff as well as city administration.

The proposed MOU has clarified the role that State Fire will be having, which is that uh involved in the actual fire plan review.

And the in-person meeting established re-ranchal fire rescue as well as the utilities department role and review of the water plan for the site to include hydrant placement, water storage, and final approval from both departments.

However, there are a few issues that are still outstanding.

In fact, there's three, and they kind of center around Sandoval County Fire Rescue, maintaining the authority having jurisdiction, which if you remember from November's governing body meeting, that was something that we were pretty adamant about needing to change and be assigned to re-arancho fire rescue.

And Chief, didn't we offer an amendment to that very specific?

Yes, Mayor, we did.

So they said no problem, all of them got up, they're on putting maybe we need to play that video back for them.

It could help.

So the the big three things that we're standing on.

Uh the water was been taken care of in that in-person meeting of December 1st.

However, fire inspections, pre-plan, and the creation of an incident action plan would still remain with Sandoval County Fire Rescue, even though Rearanchal Fire Rescue through the automatic aid would be the responding agency.

In my opinion, but does not effectively position our department to meet the expectations of our community, the broader community, the workforce at Project Ranger, or my firefighters.

So where does that put us?

There's technically about two different outcomes I see going.

Obviously, we're still awaiting response, but the first thing would be they agree to the MOU proposals that I've made, which would mean we take over all fire inspections on an annual basis.

We do the pre-plans and we create the incident action plan as a responding agency to that site.

Or two, they don't agree, at which point I would then move to discuss the MOU that we have with them for automatic aid.

Now, currently what is going to happen, uh I'm gonna be reaching out to them hopefully tomorrow to ensure that they have received my email with my comments, and then look to schedule a meeting again in person with both San Diego County Fire Rescue, San Diego County Administration, the State Fire Marshal's office, and my command staff to discuss what we do next and how we move forward with it one way or the other.

With that, I stand for any questions.

Mr.

Mayor.

Counselor List.

You had comments there, you just didn't follow them.

I like I like it better.

You wouldn't you didn't go by the PowerPoint.

Just awesome.

I like it.

Launch right out into it.

It's all good.

Uh I just want to say thank you so much uh for the follow-up from both city manager and from Chief Wenzel.

Um, Chief Windsell, it's uh no secret that I am extremely passionate about this particular area of the project and all of these types of things that you had requested and that I think are essential.

Um I am so so disappointed that we are here having this conversation, and it is not the resolution that was vividly hashed out for an hour on this specific issue, and that grown men stood in this room and said yes, and yet we're still exactly where we knew we would land.

Um I think that it's very important that the residents understand.

I do believe that I can speak on on behalf of my counterparts, but at least for myself, I I think that this is a shared amongst our our service providers, but this is not a city-county issue.

This is a logistic responsible decision making issue.

This is about public safety and keeping the public safe and keeping the first responders safe.

This is this is not an us versus them conversation.

So I think that's very, very important that people understand.

Um, second of all, I think we need to reiterate the importance of Rio Rancho Fire being able to be the ultimate um uh authority and decision maker in this process, in that it is our manpower, our equipment, our personnel that has to show up, and everything has to be according to your knowledge base and your skill set and your expertise.

And so if someone else is making decisions on your behalf, it's fruitless for you to show up and then have this in equipped uh ability to respond to the situation.

Um, I also think that is extremely disrespectful to the community to say we the county are unable to respond to this area, so we have a contract with the city to respond to this area because they're equipped to do so, yet we still want to call the shots, even though it's not us and our people.

There, I'm not aware of any professional organizations or corporations that contract out a job but still micromanage that job that they contracted out.

You contract down an expert to do what you cannot do in-house, and so I am in full support of us not renewing the automatic aid agreement should they not come to the table with 100% of what you need, and I don't say that lightly because I know as first responders, your innate gut instinct is we'll we'll do whatever it takes to make people safe, and even if that means we get the short end of the stick, but in this situation, the short end of the stick means that the people get the short end of the stick, and the personnel get the short end of the stick.

And so I don't know where my counterparts lie, but I just want you to know that I fully support not renewing or terminating the automatic aid agreement should they not come to the table with 100% of what you need to do this job successfully.

Mr.

Mayor, Councillor List, thank you very much.

Appreciate that support.

Mr.

Mayor, yes, Councillor Culbreth.

Thank you.

Um I agree with almost everything that um counselor list said.

I think it was more like two hours though, not one.

Um and the other my other just semantic point um is that I'm not disappointed because disappointment would have required expectation that something different would have happened.

So I'm actually not disappointed because this is what I expected to happen.

Um and while it's unfortunate, it's not entirely unexpected, in spite of um the words that were said, um, and I I think I uh mentioned some of that on that night.

Um so but I do I do think right the priority has to be given, as we said from the beginning, that we need to have the AHJ in place because we would be the ones responding um and and leading that effort, and so I'm in full support of you, you know, continuing to pursue first, right?

Continuing to pursue collaboration, continuing to pursue us having you know the best outcome would be a collaborative outcome.

Um, however, we know that that may not ultimately end up being the case.

And what's what's set the the most disappointing is that this will impact residents of Sandoval County because of the lack of that automatic aid agreement, right?

And so there are other constituents for the county that are going to be losing the response that they that they would need, and I I find that completely unfortunate.

And that's actually what is disappointing to me is that there's not been consideration taken for those members of Sandoval County.

Um but I do have so that color means surprised.

Um I I actually, though, I'm uh I'm very I I think the community outreach has been great, it's been very helpful.

Um I'm glad that a lot of the water issues have been addressed.

I mean, I still have some concerns over the water, but it is what it is.

They're continue to be addressed.

I'm curious.

Um, actually, city manager, if you can talk about Paseo del Vulcan funding and where we are, is that where that's next?

Okay, because that's I think that would be my next question.

Well, I have a question.

Um that's all I have.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Counselor Tyler.

Well, I mean, I think we all said it, right?

Um if they don't come to the table with what you want, then we just go our way and we do our thing.

They'll have to figure out how to get fire service done out there, and probably how to get water.

Because if we're not servicing the area, there's probably no reason for us to run water out there.

It's it's it's one of those things.

I think that my main intent for the water to go out there was to make sure that we had the firefighter capabilities, and I think that um with if we're not if we're not doing any of the work out there and we're not responsible, so why should we run the infrastructure or do any of that out there is so that goes into a different discussion?

But I completely agree with um counselor list.

I am in full support of uh the automatic aid being abandoned.

Okay.

And um, if they're not gonna do it our way, then find another way to do it.

I mean, it's that simple.

It it it it doesn't take rocket science.

Um, but it's it's very, very simple.

So I think you're the right man.

I think you're doing a great job.

Just hold their feet to the fire because they sat up here and told us all this stuff that they were gonna do.

Oh, yeah, we're gonna get the day one.

Where's it at?

Nothing, nothing's here.

And so if they're gonna keep going back and forth and they want to be in charge, let them have it all.

It's yours.

Have a nice day.

We'll watch from the outside.

Okay.

Um all right.

That's it.

That's all I have, Mr.

Mayor.

And the water thing, I guess we're gonna go to next.

I'm I'm good.

I'm good.

Thank you very much.

Chief Winsl still has the floor.

Chief Winsless, you have the floor.

Still his debate.

I will yield the floor to city manager.

Mr.

City Manager.

Yeah, I'll just I'll sit right here.

The chair.

The slide in front of me.

I just Mr.

Mayor, members of the governing body.

Um, thank you for your comments.

I just also want to really two things.

One, um, acknowledge Chief Wentzel's work on this.

Um, and we spent a lot of time after we got their MOU in preparing a response on how can we make this work under different confines.

It was not just a quick, you know, a quick no, we spent some time thinking about different different scenarios.

Truthfully, you know, despite everything that it represents, and I think is one of the things that we see with public safety folks is they like challenges too, right?

They they want to protect everybody, but they also like challenges.

We and you know, I fullheartedly mean this.

We want to make this work.

Um, we'd like to make this work, um, because you know, for all the reasons we've we we've talked about.

Um, you know, Chief Wentzell, as he mentioned yesterday, is gonna follow up with you know, a phone call and a request for a meeting based on our most recent um you know response to them.

You know, we didn't send them a red line of the MOU they sent us.

Let's just talk about broad stroke parameters, you know, a framework and a structure.

Because that you know, documenting it and turn having the the attorneys capture it and make sure it fits everything in a document.

That's the easy part.

Um we got to get back to where we have a an understanding and in a and a framework.

And fact of the matter is while it's not necessarily penciled this way, we're asking you know, it's simply asking for you know what is the framework for how we handle Intel.

That has kind of evolved through practice rather than documentation.

So we're just asking for something that we're already doing.

Um, but again, you know, I applaud Chief Wentzel for his hard work on it.

I think he much better rather be working on Fire Station 8 and a couple other things, um, and getting back to talking about day buses and all kinds of uh you know um other neat things that help our response, but we want to make this work, um, and we hope we can bridge that gap.

Um, and they will see our perspective on it.

You know, hopefully, not to say that we're not trying to we're trying to see their perspective.

We hope they'll they'll see our perspective.

We can bridge that back gap and get there and get there to a scenario where um our fire chief and the folks he serves, which is the the residents of Rio Rancho and a lot of residents of Sandoval County, and uh the uh men and women in his um in his charge, um that he can feel comfortable on how he's serving them.

Uh you have a map up here on the screen, um, which you've seen a version of this, and I added some talking points kind of right here uh in the right hand corner.

Um I uh this the bullet points you see here in the right hand corner was based on interactions and communications with the county when I requested an update on the status of the funding of PDV and timing.

I shared with them this slide so they know what I'm presenting here as well.

Um and I really think it's going to be uh um we'll be back in January, February with additional updates.

Um kind of you know, we discussed this sum the other night, and you know, best way I think the fair to characterize it is they're still working through it, um, looking for for more information um and and more funding.

PDV to UNSER is about a 24 million dollar project, 11 about 11 million dollars, 11.2 has been funded.

There is a gap of 12.5.

The 29th, 28th, 29th Street extension, which would run parallel to PDV and and for one portion to the south of PDV, then later on flip to the north of PDV.

Um, that's about 8.2 million dollars.

Um so Sandoval County is submitting a capital outlay request of uh to the legislators of about 20.7 million, call it 21 million dollars to construct these two um the these two uh projects.

So Sandoval County is submitting a capital outlay request of uh to the legislators of about 20.7 million, call it 21 million dollars to construct these two um the these two uh projects um at this point uh roadway construction timing is to be the to be determined based on the capital outlay appropriation whether that's they're funded in its entirety whether it gets emergency funding clause um which would make the funds available mayish or junish if I'm not mistaken under an emergency funding clause rather than the typical we wouldn't see they wouldn't see the funds until August September or October um it is possible that uh there won't be roadway you know so I I you know this is now me just some surmising here a little bit whether they go on the first phase of PDB the timing for that maybe they accelerate it once they know what's happening on you know the timing for the balance of the funding for what would be phase two of PDV and getting it to out the 28 28th and 29th street that does uh leave a uh a a question mark our or a pending topic of discussion is what will be the routes for construction traffic um and the routes and and at least calendar year 27 for employee and freight traffic out to the facility so those um you know I my answer is um still you know waiting for more information they're seeking the funding um and in this upcoming legislative session ask them to keep us apprised um and uh definitely we'll keep you posted um you know via different formats with which we communicate with the via the governing body but given this topic most likely would give you an update in city manager's report at one of our meetings or January or in January or February if not at a work session so uh with that I would stand for any questions um Matt Construction traffic that's obviously a big one um is would we uh would we be able to go ahead and run that up progress and then come back down rainbow or go out king from rainbow yeah for go progress to rainbow rainbow back down to king maybe have the county grade those roads so that that construction traffic stays off King Boulevard through northern meadows because Mr.

Mayor members are the governing body that is obviously um I think something that they are looking at when they said they're exploring what their options are for construction traffic.

I mean I would say that's how we'd be looking at it whether it's progress or 28 slash 29th I do know the county has uh hired uh heavy equipment operators recently um they hired a couple of hours so I think they're anticipating doing a lot of road work um a lot of road blading um so but yes the keep it off of king it will have to be 28 slash 29th and or progress a combination thereof because collectively king from UNSER all the way to rainbow over the last six seven years we've spent twenty million dollars in there give or take the because we're we repay king from from Willow I don't know that project cost that's what yeah but the the the front portion with the the roundabout yeah was eight if not ten yeah it was between eight and ten and then whatever they think the other one was vital yeah so for a reason we spent a lot of money in there and I'd hate to see that road get torn up with a bunch of heavy trucks or anything like that because it's not it's not a truck rated road uh for that kind of traffic so um definitely want to keep that traffic out of out of northern meadows I think counselor Lennon time would agree with that you sure no but uh yeah so that's just a thought uh of of that right there um I I don't have any other questions around that Mr.

Mayor members of the governing body that's all I have thank you okay no other questions from uh council all right then we are adjourned until our regular governing body meeting which will occur at six p.m.

see you all back here