Welcome everybody to the December 16th Heritage Preservation Commission meeting.

Before we call to order, we start each meeting with a 15-minute public open comment period.

This is an opportunity for the public to comment to the commission regarding items that do not have a public hearing on today's agenda.

Each speaker has up to four minutes.

And with that said, will the first speaker please step forward.

In this room today, we'll have you go to the end of the table there and please sign in and then state your name clearly, and you'll have four minutes.

Okay.

Hi, as most of you know my name is uh Barry Dunwick, and I welcome all the news you know uh few of the review who are new, and I welcome you.

I the other people know I've done the same eight years when I give you most of the meetings, and I also went to the heritage preservation committee meeting, even though remembered that before that.

Um so the items I've been mentioned today is the the awards.

I I do think we should do the awards.

I just do want to caution you that the the last eight, the heritage preservation committee before it was a commission, had a lot of like experts in in architecture and land and people who actually built the buildings.

And so they were easy, it was easier for them to do some of those more technical awards.

I mean, I don't think there's anyone, there aren't that many people in the HBC who have really good novel to what makes better landmark changes, like changes to the buildings.

And so I it'd be harder for you to do it than some other, but I do think you should do some of the awards anyway, because I think that would be a good thing to do.

Um I want to mention that when it comes to the uh heritage preservation district report that Molly's gonna talk about later.

I still think we should have something in that report if it's not already there, but to help the property owners improve their buildings so we don't have demolition by neglect.

Some of it is intentional, but some of it isn't.

Some of it is they just don't know any better.

So I I think it's important to have in the future have somebody do outreach to the property owners to make sure they know how to preserve their buildings.

You have to get grants for two, but but even if they don't, uh it would be good for them to know how they could improve their buildings and maintain them because I don't know that they will know that now.

And I think education and incentives are both a good thing for that.

So when that's discussed.

Um, I'm gonna bar couldn't make it tonight, but I I know she wants me to talk about Indian height.

Um not so much we don't expect it to be discussed to you really, but I I do think at this point she deserves a uh sort of a general goal and timetable.

If you're gonna get a general uh person to sort of do a uh, you know, the whole plan, you know, the consultant.

I do think we should know what's the timetable.

Is it going to be three months, six months, a year?

Like what are we talking about?

It's already been a long time.

So there's that.

And once we get it back, how quickly will the HBC do it?

I'm also hoping, and it isn't on your agenda exactly, but I'm hoping you can also do something about what you want to do as priorities for the next year.

Like, do you want to do uh review on from the different uh landmarks uh of potential landmarks and inventory?

We're very far behind.

That was originally supposed to take about two years, about 12 years ago.

And we we've done most of them or we've done some of them in districts like the downtown district and to stuff.

But we really some of those buildings like the Kale and some of the individual buildings have been languishing there for like over a decade.

So I think it's important to have some kind of prioritization.

I know over the years Molly's tried to get the HPC issue priority meetings.

Very important that this body come up with priorities about what they should be doing next year, like which buildings, how how are you gonna how are you going to explore it?

So uh and so that's that's that's basically it to know again what what there will be HPC due next year.

You don't have to do it immediately, but what prioritization and don't spend a year talking about how to prioritize.

Just as a group, please come up with priorities and a list and which one will you do first, and we get to we get to it, but at least you know what's on the agenda.

But right now you really don't.

Time okay thank you also great one with the reading thanks okay all right well the next person wishing to speak please uh sign on in there and stay your name uh John Friesel good evening nice to be here and thank you for all of your time too so I can address a few points that I think are relevant with your gas um the award criteria that Mr.

Scholnik brought up uh certainly the criteria is everything um and I think his uh I didn't completely follow all of your uh your suggestions as related to that of some of the former members of the of the committee and then the commission and so forth but I think the important thing is the establishment of the criteria so that that award be something of uh of merit and not uh puffery and window dressing that's a that's an important very important charge on your part um addressing upheaps of buildings I would comment that um I would say that uh people that have an asset which might be a piece of real estate uh uh they are they are aware uh because of the requirements as it relates to the insurance company they they couldn't get insurance if they were improperly keeping a particular building up I don't mean to say that there might be times for some workshops but everybody's busy and just commenting Barry on that and I think it would be very hard to follow through and to and to use this commission's time in trying to educate people how to take care of the buildings I mean all of you uh most recently are aware of that um some of the projects that were proposed in downtown Rochester uh we didn't know that it was historic at the time of purchase well that's uh when that comes in front of the council again I don't know if I can say point of order but that's an out out and out wide uh so um people know how to take care of the facility if that's their choice to take care of the facility many of them choose otherwise so if they have a different argument um timetables uh I would say if more that more of the things that Barry pointed out to this commission uh um are are acted upon it's in the hands of the city council to be able to assign more time uh to Molly or someone else that Molly would like to work with primarily uh and so that's that's their charge and in the past at least uh we have thank goodness we have uh Molly uh lumbren patterns uh here it's just worked with your commission but uh her tasks are many and needs uh uh uh needs recommendation from the commission to be able to assign more more time from her or somebody else to this commission to work forward which uh with items that have been taken care of in the past um uh certainly uh I now I'm gonna talk about um um landmarks uh landmarks such as and um I think some of you have uh been here before what I've addressed okay is the clock a landmark I believe it is a landmark when I say the clock the clock from the fire station um that that clock is going to be relocated uh to a um uh uh a different location than initially was so uh uh some of the discussions in the past saying that these objects that are landmarks um they have been removed thank goodness from some of the buildings that were demolished otherwise they wouldn't be here today whether it's a clock whether it's the I'm gonna bring up again I'm I'm anxious for all of you to act on establishing other landmarks such as the Weber jet clock whether Hollywood whether Hollywood signed it uh China Mall sign uh just another thought that you are unaware of because I'm gonna call it a mobile landmark all of you are unaware of that um uh I currently currently own tried to give it the city many years ago the first uh the first gasoline powered truck of the city of Rochester 1909 was assigned to the Pierce grocery store that stayed in Rochester initially it went to hemp museum that was owned by the Bandle family who I'm related to the Vandal family therefore it didn't go when it was sold to Steiger and went to North Dakota the contents of of the of that museum uh my parents and I uh bought that luckily from the Bandle family and that is currently still in Rochester so think of this that is a mobile landmark uh some of you might be aware of the Aaron's fox that uh as a pumper truck that we give attention to my attention it is not a landmark by the way it was an it was not initially bought by the city of Rochester bridge revere is the landmark now thank you very much are there any other speakers wishing to speak

So think of this.

That is a mobile landmark.

Some of you might be aware of the Aaron's Fox that is a pumper truck that we give attention to it is not a landmark, by the way.

It was in it was not initially bought by the city of Russia.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any other speakers wishing to speak?

Seeing none, that is our open common period.

And so this meeting of the Rochester Heritage Preservation is called to order on December 16th, 2025 at 510 PM.

Commissioner Bodeker.

Present.

Commissioner Connell.

Present.

Commissioner Dobbmeyer.

Present.

Commissioner Gandhi.

Commissioner Kessler.

Present.

Commissioner Muchler.

Present.

Commissioner Poyer.

Here.

Commissioner Schable.

Commissioner Wasmer.

Present.

And Sher Zastro is present.

And before we dive into the other items on the agenda, really quickly, I wanted to give Commissioner Kessler a quick chance to do an introduction.

If you want to say a thing or two about yourself and maybe what interested you in this commission.

Yeah.

Hi, I'm Elida Kessler, pronounced like Lightoscope.

I work at Mayo doing healthcare IT.

Yeah, a little girl and also do some embroidery art for fun.

And this commission in particular, I a few years ago had started looking into my family history and got pretty deep into that.

And then I started looking into Rochester history more since my family has settled down here.

And so with that, I actually talked to Commissioner Chair Zapstro about this commission and sounded like something that aligned with what I want to do and how to help the city.

And so it and here I am.

So very happy to be here and I didn't get to know you all more.

Great.

Welcome aboard.

Okay.

So moving on, we have the order of the agenda in our packet and on the screen.

Are there any objections or corrections to the order of the agenda as presented in your packets and on the screen?

Are there any objections to the order of the agenda as presented in your packets?

Hearing none, the order of the agenda is approved by unanimous consent.

Onto the consent agenda, item four uh four A, the minutes from the November 25th meeting, which were included in your packet.

Again, are there any corrections or objections to the minutes as included in the agenda packet?

Are there any objections or corrections to the minutes as included in your agenda packet?

Hearing none, the minutes are approved by unanimous consent.

There is no item five or six this week with reports and recommendations or public hearings.

We are on to other business.

Coordinator Patterson Lundgren, go ahead.

Sure.

In your packet, I provided some additional information on the board on the awards that were um previously given out by the committee.

So prior to the establishment of the Heritage Preservation Commission, um, which is a commission of the city, right?

It's established by an ordinance.

It needs statutory requirements for a city commission.

Um, before that actually was established, this commission was established.

There was a committee that was formed.

Um, I believe it was formed by the mayor.

I can't find a lot of information about sort of how that all happened, but certainly before my time.

Um, but that committee worked on uh basically coming up with methods to promote historic preservation within the community.

You've heard some comments from the public about it tonight as well as in previous meetings.

Um, and so they did not have um, they did not have the ability to designate at that time.

They didn't have um that type of uh authority given to them.

Um they didn't have authority to review you know, changes to properties.

Um, so one of the things that they were able to do is to do kind of a promotional type of activity, which um these awards are are part of that, right?

Is to try and garner um appreciation for preservation projects within the community, you know, given kind of a lack of authority to do anything official.

Um so we talked a little bit about the Louise Hill Award last month, and um the plaque is uh see the photo on the screen.

Um, and then we found out from um some of our uh members of the public that actually there were other categories as well.

Um and there were six in total.

Um the information that was in your packet, you know, was provided by a past committee member.

Um, and it broken them down into kind of these first three, which are really uh um awards given to either individuals or organizations, right?

It's about people who have done things to promote historic preservation in the community.

Um, and this is all in your packet too, so I'll just go ahead here.

The other three categories are really more sort of property based or project based, right?

Which um, you know, which projects, construction projects did the committee find to be um, you know, worthy of an award for heritage preservation or adaptive reuse.

Um, and they had these three categories for kind of project or property-based awards.

Um what I will say, and um I don't have any particular recommendation.

I think that you know, if you if you would like to pursue something like this, um we can definitely do that.

Um, if you are going to do it though, I do strongly suggest that it be related to um to the authority that you're given and to kind of the mission that you're given.

Um, our current ordinance, which establishes and um kind of maintains and gives you the authority that you have as a commission is located in the Unified Development Code or UDC.

And in particular, it's um in section 6200 040 C, which is the heritage preservation overlay.

C three is heritage preservation commission, really duties of the commission, the HPC shell, and then it lists seven different things.

Um, the rest of this section C is primarily about um about the heritage preservation overlay, which includes the inventory.

Okay, so your authority is to use the inventory power to identify properties within the community that you think might have historic significance.

And then it also the rest of section C also um addresses uh landmark.

So once you've identified a property, um a study has to be done, and um, and then you have the ability to recommend to the city council designation.

Heritage preservation overlay is actually a zoning overlay district.

And um, so when we talk about kind of the landmark designation part of our heritage preservation program, really that heritage preservation overlay.

And then sort of the third kind of other part of section 620040 is um now how are properties treated once they become a historic landmark.

And that's the certificate of appropriateness process, where somebody makes an application, they come in, see the reviewed and approved at a staff level or um at this level by the commission.

So on the board, and um, I don't think I gave this to your packet, but on the board I've got that section out of the UDC with those sort of seven others, you know, kind of the mission of the HPC.

And a couple of years ago, I started to break it down into sort of this graphic on the right-hand side.

Um, really, you know, this idea of research and documentation.

We need to have a solid basis of information in order to uh do an inventory of properties and then designation, and that is where we move over then to the right-hand side, um, the upper right hand side of that um of that circle.

Um, economic development and sustainability, what are the ways that we support property owners with financial and technical assistance, um, the idea of sustainability and support um, you know, of them maintaining their abilities, uh their buildings, right, as part of a broader sustainability effort for the community.

And then the lower left-hand side is this public engagement and education.

Um, and that's I think where I think we're probably the the award would go.

Um, if you look at number six on the screen, provide so the HPC shell number six, provide educational opportunities for heritage preservation, act in an advisory capacity to its citizens, and reflect the history of the many groups that make up the city's rich heritage.

I think that's probably where um where an awards program would go.

Um, and that it would somehow be related to that kind of task or mission of yours.

So that's what I have on this agenda item.

Um, and I can you know go back and look at information if you're interested in that and talking about it.

I guess at this point, I would just say, you know, what is your um wish in terms of discussion and possible next steps.

Thank you, coordinator Patterson Lundgren.

So I kind of wanted to open up a discussion here and just see what the interest is.

Uh I think a logical next step if we wanted to do this would be to ask coordinator Patterson Lundgren to look at the UDC and come forward with with a report or recommend and recommendation.

Um, potentially could even be next month, but sometime early 2026.

But before we do that, I wanted to just have an opportunity for everybody to share their thoughts.

Um, I agree it should be rooted in our duties as laid out in the UDC.

And I think the educational one there, B6 uh on that last slide.

It would fit there.

I see a few other ones.

Um, but before we really dive in and dig in, I just wanted to see if anybody else was interested.

Uh also um the past committee had multiple categories, and I uh I would actually agree with what some of our speakers said today that we don't have uh a whole panel of experts.

We have some.

We certainly have a history center representative here.

Um but to really dig in, I think it is maybe above and beyond our scope, but I think a simple kind of single award uh during National Heritage Preservation Month could be very fitting for us and could fit in with the educational opportunities.

So with that said, does anybody have anything they they would like to ask or add?

Uh Commissioner Poyer, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair Sastra.

Um coordinator Patterson Lundgren.

Would this if we did an award, which would probably result in not a lot, but it would result in some of your time.

I mean, is that um we we don't direct to work?

So if you comment on on that.

Sure.

Um yeah, either way, it would probably take some of my time to coordinate things.

Um I would say um I would I I don't think there would be support for it being all on me.

Um I think that it would have to be probably a committee or an individual appointed by the commission, probably a committee, um, you know, to probably create the program ultimately.

Um, and then also run the program.

Um, some of the things we need to think about, including my time, but also uh really minor, but like, you know, okay, so are we going to continue to add names to the existing plaque?

What's the budget for that?

Probably really minor, like I said, who's managing that?

Like, you know, what's our process, not just to determine who our awardee is, you know, who's reaching out to whoever the engraver is, kind of how do we go through that procurement process, right?

There's a lot of different things, even though it's, you know, not a huge amount of money, but um, but those resources start to add up.

And those are things that I think um we need to determine before we make a decision about whether or not to bring an awards program back.

Okay, thank you.

Um yeah, I I agree with Chair Zastro's remarks, uh, especially about the um a single award seems like it would be um more appropriate.

And um, I guess I'm cautioned too.

I would not want us to spend time on an award at the expense of doing our mission.

So if you know, I don't mind if our meetings last a little bit longer, but I wouldn't want this to conflict with anything else.

And so if we're open to to like a three-person committee to to do this award or if we're like uh like Chair Saster said, if we had a um report recommendation on the next month, I'd be open to that.

Thank you.

Commissioner Baeter, you had your hand up.

Uh yeah, I was just curious.

Um the last time this was uh was implemented was in 2012.

Is that right?

Um, I think so.

Let's see, what did the top show?

I think it is 2013.

Yeah.

I was just looking at the mission form.

So thank you.

Screens.

Um yes, Commissioner Kessler.

The curiosity, um, I know that we had said that this is kind of like the nomination form that we found.

Have we looked at what other cities are doing in terms of like recognizing people in their communities or buildings that are being preserved in this capacity?

Good question.

I have not.

I have not either.

I know that there are other communities who have done similar things.

Um I think there was one community I worked for where we talked about it a lot and then never started looking.

So um, yeah, I'm aware of it, but that's been a while too since I've done any looking.

I think that would be another, wouldn't want you to have to recreate the wheel of those other communities who have done this process and help us with that if we wanted to implement this.

I think most of this came up from just the prior awards and community members revisiting the idea and reminding me of say there's a plaque, and then I was surprised.

I didn't I walked past it and had no idea it's been there.

So any other commissioners with thoughts or questions.

Um, so there isn't action requested on this, but can we just maybe a room temperature?

Would people be interested in pursuing this in early 2026?

Is this something Molly should put uh even minimal time in, or is there not interest at all?

I guess any thoughts or should we just do a show of hands?

Okay, let's say so.

Show of hands who thinks this is worth pursuing, I guess a little further as a commission.

Okay.

I'm just gonna like not raise my hand because that's fair.

And anyone who doesn't so I I think it's worth pursuing.

Um could we maybe have a little more discussion just to give Molly some guidance, I suppose?

Yes, Commissioner Walker.

Um if this hasn't been done for almost a decade uh or more than a decade, actually.

Is it is that something in the community says, hey, whatever happened to that award, or is it something that people really didn't know existed and now they want to bring back?

Like was there prestige account?

Like I don't know the background of it, if it's something that needs to come back, or sure.

Um so in my looking at it, there were um post bulletin articles about it every year.

Um there were ceremonies, so one was at the Heritage House.

It was actually co-sponsored by um the the History Center and their executive director at the time, I believe came as a speaker, um, at least for one of the years.

Uh so some of that information is included in the material that what um you put in the packet.

Uh, I think I maybe have a few other forms or post bulletin articles floating around.

So I would say it was somewhat known in the community that this was happening.

It was in the post bulletin.

Do you have anything further to add from your looking into it?

No, I really um haven't done much more than what you've provided.

So yeah, and I haven't read all the articles, so okay.

I kind of glanced at them to see, you know who was nominated.

I would ask if there is anybody who would be willing to do a little bit of maybe research with me if there's if there's somebody who you know will be willing to do some just vote calls with you know plaque and kind of maybe research on other HPC awards and that would be helpful.

Uh-huh.

Yep.

And I will say too, this coincided with National Heritage Preservation Month.

So in some of the initial press releases, it it said that this was happening with you know other communities throughout the nation having their own events.

So I do think there is some legitimacy to it.

Okay.

It just is a matter of do we have the appetite to take it up.

Uh Commissioner Hoyer.

Uh one of our charges is education.

And I don't think we've done that.

And so I think this is the category that would fall into and would whether it's a big deal in the community or not, uh, you know, it it could be something.

So I I think on on that grounds, I think it has merit.

Uh yes, Commissioner Marshall.

Uh thank you, Chair.

Um, I think it is good for public engagement as well, going down into the community.

Um, and I think we can take a look maybe at the cadence of things.

Maybe we don't have to do it every year, or we decide, okay, or if there's um, I think before it was in the post-bulletin, people could nominate themselves or other people.

So based on the nominations or what the committee or whatever we decide a good framework.

Well, then that sounds good to me.

Um, I think where we're at is probably looking at some sort of recommendation.

Um as far as how this could be done in committee.

I don't know that we have anything else specifically that I guess we're looking for in that recommendation.

Yeah.

Um, but the understanding would be that this would be something probably a committee of one to three commissioners would be helping working with coordinator Patterson Lungren to make sure that this um program goes through if we do vote to do this.

Any other questions on that?

All right.

Then I think we'll just watch for that recommendation when you're able in early 2026.

Okay.

So then moving on to item 7B.

Funding and program updates.

Go ahead, coordinator Patterson Lunger.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So periodically I've brought updates about the funding program that was created in 2024 for the downtown downtown commercial historic district.

And Chair Zastro asked me to do another update and give you, you know, some just some information about how that program is going.

So the downtown commercial historic district or the downtown historic district was approved by city council.

I believe it was in January of 2024.

When they approved that, the other thing that they did was ask community development to bring back a recommendation for some incentive or assistance type programs for property and business owners within the district.

Actually, we brought something to the HPC.

And created some you know documents to kind of share that information out.

On the right hand side of the screen, you see kind of a clip from one of those.

And on the left hand side, you see just the really basic kind of outline of what these three different programs are.

So the pre-development grant is up to 20,000 per property, requires a 50% non-city match, and is for soft costs.

This was conceived of uh with the idea that people may need assistance hiring architects, engineers, um, you know, professional specialties to help them figure out what their project should be before they actually know, you know, what kind of the bricks and mortar aspects of their project are.

The loan is um the pre-development grant is funded by um city, and now I'm not gonna get it right.

It's a um it's a tax um uh shoot, it's a city fund.

It's um income from I think it's a like a sales tax to sales tax income for the city.

Um and I can give you more information on that.

That part of it isn't is not kind of my specialty there, but um both the pre-development grant and the loan are funded by um by that source of uh funding for the city.

So um the loan up to 200,000 per property, you know, really great deal because you get 10 years, 0% interest.

Um, we actually do a forgivable um for second-story apartments if somebody wants to add a um a dwelling unit downtown.

Um so those are kind of the two city pools of money um again from that um uh sales tax.

Um the third one is what we call the DMC infrastructure investment fund, and that that fund acts like a grant, right?

So uh you have to match it.

The applicant has to be able to match it one to one or 50 percent.

You can use the loan as part, all a part of that match.

So for example, if you had a 400,000 project, you could get 200 from the DMC infrastructure, you could get 200 from the loan.

Um, and then you could also get the pre-development on top of that and have a nice project without basically putting any of your own you know money in at the beginning.

Um, so this is sort of the basic program that was created and was adopted and um implemented in July of 2024.

So um the way the process works, uh, and I actually created this flow chart earlier today, so um hopefully this is um accurate and I haven't missed anything.

Uh basically what we do is um we ask somebody, property owner um or a business owner to complete an online uh intake um application or part one application.

We need to know the address so we can make sure that it is qualifying, that it's in the district, and actually it's a contributing property in the district because those are the only ones that are eligible.

Um we are looking for at least some sort of project concept, you know, storefront rehabilitation or roof, you know, replacement.

Um, and then we hope that they at least have a little bit of an idea of what they're looking for for budget.

Um, with that intake form, then I do a first look at it.

I work with Josh Johnson, who is in our administration department.

Um, and he works very closely with the downtown.

Um of the things I look for is is the project going to require certificate of appropriateness?

Because that's one of the first things I want to determine.

Um, if it is, and that's actually not shown in this process here, just realized, but if it is, um, I'm gonna reach out when I reach out to the applicant, I'm going to start with that, make sure that they're aware of and that we start to put that into their timeline from the beginning.

Um, so then we determine the timing.

Uh, I make sure they're aware of some DMC requirements.

Um there's targeted business requirements for contractors, there's um some sustainability requirements, um, sort of green building type requirements, goals that we're trying to meet with all DMC money.

Um, and we have that discussion.

And then once we think that they're ready, we send them an invitation to the part two application.

And that again is an online portal.

Um, and they're asked to fill out um what's called a source and use form, um, and then provide estimates or bids from contractors.

And um this when it's says part two application here.

Uh see if I can move the house right here.

So this again, this goes into the DMC and the city loan, right?

That's the kind of the bricks and more of the actual construction project.

What also can happen is somebody can request a pre-renovation grant.

Um, so we're going to drop down and talk about that a little bit here before I get too much into the part two application.

Um, the pre-renovation grant, again, we need to see at least two estimates.

Um, so kind of the simplest thing is, you know, it's going to be the architects who they're working with.

What are the two estimates?

What's the project?

Um, what is it that they're going to get with this money?

Um, and then it gets approved at uh a staff level by community development, and um they can start to incur those costs.

Umce the project is complete, they can ask then for a reimbursement.

They can either pay and get reimbursed or they can send us the invoice with their assurance that the project is done, and actually in this case, they send the project with.

So it's going to be the designs, you know, that the architect has done.

Um, and then that they can use to feedback into the part two application, especially if it's a more complicated project.

Now, for projects like roofing projects, um, where there really isn't a design aspect, oftentimes uh the pre-renovation grant will be skipped.

Um so the part two application, uh, they need to tell us, okay, what is this project?

Um, you know, what are the costs?

They need to support that with estimates or bids from contractors.

Um, and then they need to show us a financial stack of how they're gonna pay for this.

So you've got um uh let's see, like a I'm just trying to think of um, let's say you've got an $800,000 project, right?

Um, okay, so I'm gonna ask for the full $500,000 from DMC.

I'm gonna ask for the full 200 from the city loan.

I'm gonna have to throw in another 100 of my own.

So show us where that money's coming from, make it clear what you're asking for and how you're going to contribute if you need to, um, and submit all of that through the second portal.

From there, we look at it internally.

And this is a team, um, a collaborative team between the city, including community development, city administration, um, and then DMC representatives, and we look and we talk about okay, what is in this application?

Is it clear?

Um, there's oftentimes where we have to go back and talk to them and find out and okay, what is it that you're really looking for?

What is this bid?

You know, this doesn't make sense kind of stuff.

Um, and we're looking at both the DMC money request as well as the loan, the city loan request at the same time because we're looking at that stack.

Um, only the DMC money requires approval from a body, and that's from um actually two bodies.

It's from the DMC board, and then also from the city council.

So if they're asking for DMC money, it has to get on a DMC agenda.

So we've got window windows of applications that um as soon as one closes, the next one opens.

Um just closed last week.

And um, so now we're looking at you know the requests that have come in for that under that application.

Um then kind of we're we're working on the numbers, like how do these fit?

How do we um how do we split?

Is it eligible for both programs?

There's some differences that I'll talk about here in a minute about sort of what um of eligibility under under the city loan and the DMC infrastructure investment.

Um DMC approves it, then the city council approves it.

Once that happens, we get them the agreements.

There's going to be a grant agreement with the DMC infrastructure investment, there's going to be loan agreements, there's going to be assurances that they have to sign, um, like some environmental requirements.

Um, if it's a loan, um uh the city becomes, I think it's called the secondary on the mortgage, right?

So there's a lot of documentation and things that they need to sign.

Once that gets done, they can contract um with their contractors, and that's when the project actually starts.

So it's a it's a somewhat lengthy process in you know, in having to take it through that, but um we've made it as kind of short and concise as we can, um, given the fact that we've got such a variety of projects happening.

So uh within this first year, and actually um through October of this year, we've had 11 different applications that have been approved.

One of these is actually the same property, and they came back and asked for some more funding.

Um, so there's 10 properties with 11 applications.

Um the map that you see on the left hand side show these different properties.

And um this uh bar chart actually shows um all 11 properties, and then the split between in the blue is the infrastructure investment, the orange is the city loan program, the gray is their match from some other source, and then the yellow bar in the back is the total project.

So total projects are um, and I can't see my notes here on my uh on my computer, but total projects are running from like 8,000 down to um one that I think was even under 20,000.

Um, so you know, we've got such a variety of projects happening.

You'll see some of those some of those um rows, like number nine there doesn't have an orange.

Um so like they didn't take part of um of the city loan program.

They just requested money from the infrastructure investment, both nine and 10, and actually 11 too.

Um, but like 11, you're seeing where they're matching, well, all of those are matching completely with their own funding in the gray.

Um like the first one, number one, um, that's a match across DMC infrastructure investment and the loan.

They didn't have any of their own funding because it was under uh 400,000 for that project.

So this just gives you kind of that spectrum of what's happening at um these 10 properties with these 11 approved um, I'm gonna say projects, but the projects actually include, you know, like there's one that is doing um, you know, structural work plus the roof plus um, you know, HVAC, and then there's one that's doing, you know, um uh windows and roof, right?

So across those 11 approvals, you've got this mix of different sort of project aspects.

So this is again through the end of October, um, the breakdown in funding for um uh through both of the programs through both the DMC funding and the city loan program.

Um, as of October, we had just over 200,000 um left in the loan program.

Now, when I say that, this is money that's committed but hasn't actually been used yet.

So now we're um working with all of these applicants to make sure that they're um doing the work, right?

I'm looking at have they pulled a building permit yet?

What you know, if not, I'm reaching out to them, finding out some of the earlier ones that were approved in about a year ago now, like okay, kind of what's going on, what are the problems?

Um do you need help?

Um working with you know, with these 10 different owners or applicants on these things.

So with our current um, we actually have one that's being reviewed right now that was at DMC last week that got approved, it still needs to go to city council.

We got two requests that came in last week.

We're coming close to having all of the um city loan that million dollars committed at this point.

Um so we're gonna reach a point where we have to kind of be careful when new people come in after this in the current window and moving forward who are looking for loan funding because we can't overcommit, and then we got to kind of again look backwards and say, okay, are we are those projects happening?

Um, maybe some things aren't going to get done, maybe they've changed their minds.

How are we going to reallocate that?

Um we still have quite a bit left in the DMC funding though, and we still have money in the pre-renovation because that was not uh so the city committed to a million dollars um through the first um this first round.

Um, and that's the money I'm talking about here that we're we're coming to the end, but then they've also committed to I think it's 125 each year for pre-renovation.

So we still have some of that.

Um let's see.

So we had some questions come up from the DMC when they looked at the types of projects.

And uh when we first uh created the program, we had four different kinds of areas that they were looking at.

So there's legislation that was done at the the state under state statute, um, which created the DMC and uh governs how they use their their funding.

And um it talks about infrastructure, but it talks about infrastructure including building rehabilitation.

So it fits this program fits with under that requirement.

Um and then the four different areas that um that we decided to to fund with the DMC money was adaptive reuse, building system upgrades, building safety and preservation and co-modernization.

Sometimes it doesn't quite match like the terminology we use here, and that's one of the things that when I'm working with my colleagues at DMC, trying to make sure you know that they're able to work with their board in the terminology they're used to, and I'm able to work with you and the city council um to kind of make these programs work together.

Um so there was some questions about adaptive reuse and if that really met the state legislation for infrastructure.

And um ultimately what um what the DMC decided last week was that it it does.

They can still do adaptive reuse, but we're they're gonna get away from doing interior type work.

So if you look at um the approved projects under that first paragraph, um interior renovations, including two new residential units and and um over three properties.

I think the third one was a restroom uh like project.

So interior, um, what we're going with now is to really focus on what we're calling building shell and core.

So the shell of the building is the exterior.

So anything on the exterior that is um anything on the exterior that requires a certificate of appropriateness, um, this money can be used to support to support that because there's a little bit extra that they have to go through because it's a land art property.

Um, anything that stabilizes structurally stabilizes the building is gonna be either the shell or the core.

Core is going to be um uh HVAC, plumbing, um, electrical, things that protect the building itself.

Um, so really looking at you know, what is that current building, what are the historic aspects of it, how do we focus using money on those aspects instead of kind of interior build out for whatever the use is, whether it be residential, whether it be commercial, right?

So interior walls, um uh interior sort of um finishes like flooring, um uh I should say interior partition walls, like new partition walls.

If it's historic plaster that needs to be repaired, that still would qualify.

So um there's an image there.

Uh this comes out of the sustainability world, this idea of shell and core.

And I just found that image online, and there's a couple different categories of um of uh build out.

Um definitely kind of that shell and core on the left, and then some of what's in the center, but you know, things like um carpeting and you know, any kitchen or bathroom remodel, like those are not gonna be eligible anymore.

Um so that was what the DMC decided just a week ago.

And um, so that moving forward, that's what what we'll be doing working with folks.

Um, and then we'll be looking after another year and kind of seeing how things go.

Um the other thing I wanted to mention, and some of you might remember this if you were at that first meeting where we had the DMC representative, um, and I can't remember who was here in May of 2024.

Um, this might be new for those of you who who are have been have come on the commission since that time.

Um what we came up with, and this was something that the DMC um came up with that I see kind of different models like this.

Um, but it's not just about financial support to the historic district, and um we came up with these sort of eight different categories.

In your packet, the diagram shows some of these bubbles in green, and that is where the DMC focuses.

It's financial, it's um I think it's public realm, it's um can't remember what else was on there.

I think recruitment and retention for the city, it's going to be financial, it's going to be regulatory, it's gonna be mobility through transit and you know, pedestrian improvements, that kind of thing, public realm.

Um, and then the other organization that we really see kind of um as a strong collaborative partner in these eight areas is the RDA, the Rochester Downtown Alliance.

They are uh programming activation, their branding and marketing, um, kind of all three of these groups work on public realm, and then RDA activates the public realm.

Um, and then there's going to be other partners in this uh small business administration, chamber of commerce, um, others who are going to assist business businesses within the historic district.

Um, not necessarily exclusively, but the idea here is that as we're working across uh different organizations and working collaboratively to support the district, um, we're aware of what other organizations can bring to them and we try and you know, when they do an intake form, go back to the to the request for funding, um, and we have that first conversation with them to try really understand what their needs are, and then try and help them uh locate other resources on other things.

You know, maybe they are looking for funding to expand their business, not necessarily building-wise, right?

Or maybe that's only part of what they need assistance with, where are the other sources that we can try and help align um align with, you know, to assist them.

Um I think the one other thing I wanted to mention is um, and I don't have an update because um you'll be getting more within the next few two months, but the public realm again, that was uh considered part of um the assistance and support for the historic district property owners and businesses.

We are um working on the public realm uh visioning plan.

Um stakeholders, including businesses and property owners in the district have uh have participated in that.

We've engaged with them with our uh with our consultants.

Um and this is really intended to be a benefit to to them to support them as businesses.

So how do we um you know, how do we find ways within that public realm of creating a space that will bring people, bring customers to these businesses downtown?

Um, so just kind of tying that back into again the sort of eight areas of support.

Um I think that's my last slide.

And I'm guessing there might be questions, and I can back up if you want to look at anything more specific.

Um again, or if you've got questions, I may need to, you know, uh answer it through email.

But if you've got great questions.

Thank you, Gordon Redison Underman.

I have a few right away, um, and then I'll ask other commissioners.

So this is all for the downtown commercial historic district.

Uh, are there any funding options available for historic properties outside the district?

No, there are not.

Um the RDA facade agreement grant.

No, I know that's not for the city, but is that still going?

Um yes, it is.

Okay, so that would be another possibility for businesses or writings, property owners.

Okay.

Um, and then 40% of eligible properties have already participated, plus even more recent ones you said rolled in.

So would you consider this a success so far from your perspective?

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, you know, that we have almost a million dollars that you know has been committed to projects.

Um that's that tells me that there's a want for it out there, there's a need for it.

Um, I think that again, what we're finding within this first year is the hand folding the help that people need.

Um, you know, these are people who are experts at, you know, cooking experts at um, you know, selling and collecting records, right?

I mean uh antique experts, right?

All the people who are running their small businesses, they're not project managers, they don't work with contractors, they don't work on construction projects.

Um, so that's where I think a lot of um uh the time is and effort is going.

Um again, it's successful, but I think once we can really find that we can find a way to help them with that part of it, not just the money itself, the funding, but help them actually do the projects.

Um that is I think our next kind of how are we going to do that?

How you know do we have what it do we have the tools or do we need to find other tools to do that?

Sure.

Well, and then we had obviously a pretty tested year with the district this year.

Um, and so this commission, our council, and I was at the recent DMC board meeting, and even Patrick Seed was saying they're they're really working to have businesses come in and fill these spaces.

It seems like we're really committed on every level to this district.

Um, and it looks like about 3.75 million remaining in the various um funds.

Is this something you think that we would have to look at in 2026 already for considering new recommendations for funding?

Or do you think with the success?

Do you think it's I guess my question is how urgent do you think it is that this commission be considering um recommendations for future funding for this district?

Yeah.

Um I think one of the things that we're just starting to kind of um look at and that we need to do some some compilation on is these funds that are committed.

Um like I said, that um maybe we haven't had permits pulled yet.

What's going on there, right?

Before we look at additional funding, I think we need to look at are there other tools to make this, I don't know, it's not first round, but these first two years successful where like we're actually seeing the projects happen.

Um, and there's quite a few property owners who and applicants I should say, who um just are still kind of struggling to get that the contracts, get everything figured out.

Um, you know, for some of them it's priorities of what to do with their building, and you know, they asked for something now.

It's like, okay, there's the other priorities they need to shift or try to figure out how to help them do that within what was approved or um additional approvals.

Um so I would hold off on asking for more funding, right?

Because we've got all this money that's committed and yet it hasn't been paid out yet.

And that's where we need to sort of pause, um, especially with the loan program.

I guess I'll be looking for hopefully in the future, if we hit that point that staff you could maybe let us know.

Sure, okay, those funds are dwindling.

Uh, we can check in, I think, as well.

Um, two more very quick ones.

So the Shell and Core concept, does that apply to the city revolving loan?

No, that is the DMC funding.

Okay.

Yep.

So the city isn't also adopting that for their funding option?

We have not brought that forward to council to change.

We have a um, we actually have some documents that were um that were adopted by city council and I think by the DMC too when um when the program was first uh established.

Um it's kind of how the sausage is made.

So we don't sort of put those out there for um the general applicants because we just help them through and try and keep it as simple, but the policy documents are out there.

So yeah.

Thank you.

And then my my last one here.

Um I see on what uh page 15 um that uh economic development loan uh is one million dollars available annually.

So does that refresh or is that incorrect on the document?

That is incorrect on the the website.

Thank you.

Yep, I think there was some confusion when that was first adopted.

I would get that corrected.

Thank you.

Commissioners, so that's a million dollars total.

That's a million total.

Yep.

Yes, Commissioner Debar.

Thank you, Chairs Astro.

Um, coordinator Patterson Lumber, just a question.

Uh, there may or may not be interested in this, but I'll ask it anyway.

Um, I know in the past we've talked about allocation of your time between HPC work and broader community development work.

And do you view the time that you spend on these matters to be community development work, or do you view them to be HPC um activities?

Yeah.

So um I work for community, I work within the community development department.

So all of the work I do is part of community development.

Um, my role is heritage preservation and urban design.

That's right.

Yep.

So um this work, um, even when I'm not directly working on items that I'm bringing to the HPC, that is this is heritage preservation work.

So it's that half of my role.

Um, and then just a reminder, and you know, that even though it's supposed to be balanced, pretty much half and half, like I don't track that time separately.

Um it's not half and half every day, it's not half and half every week, probably half and half every year, except for I probably put more time into heritage preservation.

Um, and then there's a lot that is both, right?

There's a lot of work that I do that is both heritage preservation and urban design.

Thank you.

Any other good?

Just to follow on the Commissioner Domer's question.

So of your heritage, I just not took a spot.

This is just a shot in the dark.

How much of your heritage preservation time is on this program?

There's been an awful lot.

Yes, that's what these two years.

Yeah, a year and a half.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

And again, a lot of it is, and I have um one person who helps me a lot, like we work on this as a team, and that's Josh Johnson.

Um, and then there's a lot of people from DMC who have spent a lot of time on it.

I mean, um, would we're to spend a lot of time on it?

Um, it's just trying to reach back out to the applicants and help them as they you know submit something and try right, try to figure out like what it is they're asking for, what um and it part of that part of that has to do with the fact that when we um got this program off the ground, um, you know, if you go back to my first slide on this, um kind of this was, you know, we had a page, we have a page on sort of each of these, but I mean we really tried to leave it open so that we could figure out as we went along, like what is the need, what should the eligible things be?

Um, what is our process?

Um, you know, not there's a lot of people who haven't gone with the pre-development grant, and we kind of assumed we assumed that it would be very kind of systematic, where it'd be from one step to the next to the next.

Well, now some people are saying back, well, now I need help with that soft cost.

I need a designer to come in.

So it's um it's messier than that.

And um, so then our communication was much more simplified going out, and it's much more customized, right?

It's customized to the property, to the projects um, and to the person because some of them know how to do construction projects, some of them like I said, don't.

So, Commissioner Grande.

So before this program started, but they would get any kind of pilot scroll in any way, or this is the first time they're getting yeah, this is yep, this is the first of kind of the big help.

There is um uh Chair Zastro mentioned the RDA facade grants program.

Um, the RDA operates with funding under a special district, it's a special tax district in the downtown.

Um, so their money is collected and given to them by the city as a as a special tax.

Um, and part of that is for a facade grant program.

Um I do work since since I started, I've been working with the RDA director a little bit on that, just you know, when a project happens.

Well, the first thing I did was say, okay, we've got these properties within the proposed historic district that may need to require certificate of appropriateness.

So that's when I started to get involved in it, because we didn't want to have funding be approved if a project wasn't approved.

Um I continue to work with them again, depending on the different directors' abilities and um kind of expertise scenarios as well.

So they're already there has been that funding available, but that's I think like 10,000 total.

Yeah.

Is overall had been normal, you find that this is the first program.

Um yeah, the first assistance is the first time.

Yes, yep, yep.

And this is unusual.

Um some communities have um programs, I think I'm aware of two that are again around that five to ten thousand dollar mark.

Yeah, that's been a while now, right?

Costs have really gone up.

Other places I've worked, um, nothing, nothing even touching this amount of money for projects.

Thank you.

I think that really speaks to the dedication to to making this district work.

Any other questions about any of the aid packages?

Okay.

On to item seven C, our calendar.

Yeah.

Oh, for next year.

Um, so you won't officially adopt it until the January meeting.

Um I've had this in front of you a couple of times, and actually I've had a few people comment.

Oh, you know, there's an error there today.

Um, we realized or a couple days ago, we realized that the October date was wrong.

I've updated it here.

I think we had it at the 22nd, which is like a Saturday or something.

Um, so 27th and all that should be correct.

Um, I've also added January 2027.

Um, because again, you don't actually adopt your calendar until the January meeting.

Um, but mostly what we're looking at is that fourth Tuesday of the month.

Um, I've given you a couple of days here where you know, if you want to have discussion about altering um the meeting that day, May um 26th is Memorial Day.

So we would have our HPC meeting the day after that.

Um wait a minute, May May 25th.

Yeah, I think so, May 25th.

I apologize.

Um, either way, our meeting would be the day after Memorial Day.

If that's a concern for everybody, um, if you know, if it starts to impact possible uh quorum, thank you, or um, we should probably address it.

Um Thanksgiving week and um the week of Christmas sometimes as kind of those late uh late holidays in those months sometimes cause us to uh to change our monthly meeting on those months um like we are tonight.

So if everybody's okay with what we have, we'll bring it forward for adoption in January.

Um yeah.

Commissioner Hart.

Thanks.

Yeah, so you've already moved the the December one, which I support that, and that's what we are right now here, and we have everybody here, which is really nice.

Um I would be in favor of moving the May and possibly even November back to the third.

I mean, last uh last month in November, we we met the quorum by the bare minimum.

Yeah.

And uh, you know, the start of Memorial Day is kind of the start of summer.

So that would be my preference.

Uh I guess also show of hands, is anybody else uh would you like to see that brought forward uh when Molly brings the calendar next month, uh considering uh Commissioner Poyer's changes.

I I would be open to it.

Okay.

And just one reminder on that is we may not be able to meet council chambers because that would you know on the third the third um Tuesday.

Yeah.

Um so move the November meeting back a week and then also the um May meeting.

Um the third Tuesday.

The other thing I'll do is I'll look at sometimes the way it falls on the calendar might make sense to move it a week forward.

Um, so I'll look at that.

Um sometimes there are five Tuesdays.

Yeah.

Sure.

Uh yes, Commissioner.

Before we move to number eight, may I ask a question?

Yeah, well, it's not uh I'm sort of inserting here allow it.

My last meeting.

I just wanted to do one thing for our good friends over there and ask a question.

I know there's a lot of interest um by certain people and probably more than we know in Indian Heights, and I know that there's a desire to kind of, you know, after maybe some hope that if we would get to it this year and we didn't, which is understandable, and I see there wasn't on our agenda, probably because you haven't had time to work on it.

Um can you give uh any sort of um not concrete but better idea um to us about timing for the uh engaging a consultant and um and just the overall time frame for consideration?

Sure.

Yes, thank you for the question, uh Commissioner Dolmeyer.

Um yeah, I think the last update I gave you was that um, and I'm gonna explain it again.

So looking at Indian Heights, um we we know that we want to look at it, and I've I think it probably qualifies for our local historic landmark designation.

Um, but I think there's also a possibility that it could qualify as a national register designation.

Um, if we got national register designation, that would open up um some possible funding through grants, competitive grants to do programming like signage or other type of interpretive, you know, um programming to help people kind of understand and educate about about the significance of the site.

So that's one of the reasons why it would be good to look at national register designation.

Um the historic significance of it probably is related to um, and I have to think of the term, um cultural significance um as a Dakota um site, not just for the because there were people buried there, but um, because it was probably considered like a spiritual site.

That's a little bit outside of my realm of expertise.

So even if we do just a local designation, we're probably gonna want to hire consultant to help with that.

The first step that I've taken, um, well, not the first step, I've been working with um a member of the Greater Rochester area, Dakota.

Um, and uh she and I have had conversations.

Um we've done the city has done the indigenous ethnographic study, which supports a lot of kind of this these ideas that I'm expressing now.

Um, but the step that I've taken most recently is to submit what's called a questionnaire for national register status or significance.

Um I was I did submit that about a month and a half ago.

Um it basically just gives the very basics of the site.

You send that to the state preservation office who um oversees the national register within the state of Minnesota.

And um I was I did get a communication from them about a week ago um asking for clarification on where to access the indigenous ethnographic study.

The person who reached out to me um is the national register archaeologist.

So um he is probably the one who is most kind of aware of uh um indigenous cultural sites.

Um the other SHIPO or state preservation office staff tend to be more focused on architecture, the built environment.

Um so I think that what that tells me is that they've got their person who you know is specialized in that in that realm, looking at our questionnaire who will be the one probably to respond to me as to whether or not he think it thinks it has uh potential to be a national register site.

And in terms of engaging a consultant, that you want to get that information first.

Okay.

Yep, because um if we decide to do national register, we also would qualify for a grant, again, competitive grant to get money to hire consultants.

Um, and so we kind of have to take it step by step.

Yeah, so I'm guessing within the next month, you know, we'll hear back from them.

Um I think it says like they may take up to 90 days, 60 or 90 days to respond to the questionnaire, which I was like, oh you know, but thank you.

Yep, yeah.

Um just going off of that.

So next month, another thing we do is uh so when we adopt calendar, we elect officers, um, but we also I believe discuss our priorities for the coming year.

So this would be a good time to discuss that, I believe, um, as a commission, uh, how we can prioritize Indian Heights.

Um also I would mention the signs um and object landmarking.

I would like to have some sort of refresher on that in early 2026.

Um I think I would wait to see if my fellow commissioners want to express that as a priority as well.

Um, but I think we're to the point where we've heard it brought up so many times.

I would really like us to be able to have a discussion as to whether we want to prioritize this and what some sort of schedule for that could look like is better.

Um I think at the very least, and unless there's some major kind of application that we get, um, I'll plan to give you the inventory and landmark list so that you have those so that you can look at them, the updated ones.

Are there any other um questions or business from commissioners?

Uh then really quickly, we do have a history fact from Commissioner Gandhi.

Good evening, everyone.

In the spirit of holiday season, I want to share something a little lighter and very familiar.

A piece of Rochester's past that our Heritage Preservation Commission helped recognize and protect as a landmark, the year of Corn Water Tower.

While Rochester is best known today for healthcare, the city was once shaped just as strongly by agriculture and reprocessing.

The year of Corn Water Tower is one of the most visible reminders of that earlier chapter.

The tower was built in 1931 to serve a nearby canning plant.

Large amounts of water were needed to wash the and process vegetables and vegetables grown in the surrounding farmland.

And cone was one of the main products.

While it may seem today, it was originally a serious piece of industrial infrastructure.

Over time, the canning operations closed and the most of the surrounding industrial buildings were removed.

For a while, the future of tower itself was uncertain.

What makes this tower notable is it survived.

Community interest helped preserve it.

And in 2021, the tower was restored.

Then in 2024, it was officially designated as a historic landmark following review by the Heritage Preservation Commission.

The commission recognized that although the town is not architectural grant, it represents an important part of Rochester agricultural and industrial history and has long served as a recognizable community symbol.

This designation is meaningful because it rodents our understanding of preservation.

The year of Corn Tower represents working history, agriculture, industry, and everyday labor.

Reminding us that historic value is not limited to prominent building and famous names.

Today, the year of cone tower no longer serves its original function, but it continues to tell an important story about Rochester's past and how the city has evolved.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Gandhi.

Thank you, Chair.

And with that, um, I think we're ready for a motion.

I believe we uh sorry.

Second.

Okay.

All in favor?

Yes.

Thanks, everybody.

It was fine.

Okay.

Hope we cross paths again.

Yeah, very Christmas and happy holidays.

Thank you.

Don't forget to put your side.