That's from mine.

I don't see it.

I don't see anything here.

Yeah, that's a good thing.

Danielle Gribry is she has notified us that she is um stepping up the board for personal reasons, and so she will not be part of the board anymore.

So there's an opening.

So if you know people who would fit the role well, make sure you guys.

So we do have an opening as Daniel is no longer on the board.

Dave Pesh.

Karen Buckley present.

Mike June here.

Ethan Swanson.

Present.

Paula Rochelle.

Is it do you is it hypnotated?

Do you want right or Michelle right now?

Laura Shaw.

Okay, Laura Shell, sorry, thank you.

Laura Shell.

So Paula Laura Shaw.

And then we do have a new member this evening who is attending, Dave Olsen, is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

So that is roll call.

And we will go to our open comment period.

And our open time period is five minutes or so.

Um where speakers will have around two to three minutes to speak their mind.

And so we have a packed house tonight.

So I don't know.

I'll open up to see if anybody wants to talk during the open comment period.

Barry.

Hi.

Yeah, I have a few things.

My first issue is again about no removal.

I I really would like to see the law change so that when it comes to people, pedestrians crossing the street, I really would like the law to say that you don't have to wait 24 hours.

Right now, if it's one flake of snow after a four um snow, you can't enforce it.

And if there's two days in a row, then they are enforced for two days.

And then three, even one flake of snow.

Postpones the enforcement for an entire day.

And that to me does not make any sense.

I would like to change the war to make enforcement be more realistic so people with disabilities can actually move around on the sidewalk.

Then as far as the agenda goes, I want to talk about the uh the bicycle, the area on Sixth Avenue between I as everyone here knows I have an apartment on Sixth Avenue between second, between Third and Fourth Street.

And I'm part of a condo uh arrow board and our people.

Uh we wanted to sort of have uh parking to disability and topples and stuff like that.

And but staff did accommodate that, and I'm happy for it.

I I still am concerned though about how useful that particular Sixth Avenue uh bike lane is because the fact is it's hilly, it's gonna be crowded, there's gonna be a lot of deliveries uh coming both north and south.

And I I just don't think it'll be used that much, so I kind of think it's a waste of money compared with the other bike lanes.

So I would I would rather not do it at all, but if someone can explain to me at least on the fourth, like what what is all of that wrap around the street?

Like how hard is it going to be if you're gonna have to climb over curves in order to get from one side of six to the other?

If you look at the uh the map for that particular block, it seems kind of confusing.

So hopefully somebody um can claim clarify that.

Um I I don't really see I I don't agree with the staff that there was wide support for the sixth avenue.

There certainly wasn't wide support for Sixth Avenue south of Second Street.

I went to a lot like a lot of the meetings, and I think they may mean above 2nd Street, but uh it does say I can clarify that.

So I just want to quickly have all the meetings there.

I I didn't see a lot of support.

I said most of the bikers there wanting other streets, not six, so I don't see what you mean above six.

I mean I mean above second street.

Well, in other words, north of second street.

Okay, south of second street, there was no real support among the bikers that I saw.

Um so that that's basically it.

Uh I I is that 10 seconds?

10 seconds for me.

What?

10 seconds remain.

Oh anyway, I I just I just think they should go for either uh Broadway or um second street, and I'll let other people comment on reasons.

Anyway, thank you very much.

Thanks, Grace.

Um want to be civil and yet frank.

Um we have the city of Rochester has granted to the male clinic and their role to move forward.

Multiple avenues.

Uh I think I feel that the mail clinic has not embraced uh the downtown business climate to the extent that uh traffic bicycle traffic or pedestrian traffic should be moved um uh west of First Avenue.

Uh it's a sensible route to move it more west of First Avenue for multiple reasons.

The density of people that will be going to the bold move forward to the clinic uh to Southwest to Southwest Rochester to try and uh have the people move on First Avenue uh will be a hardship for any uh business foolish enough to be in downtown Rochester.

Uh so here again, I'm gonna say I think the city has been disingenuous, and I think the clinic has been disingenuous uh by sacrificing the people that are along the corridor of First Avenue, and it should be it should be to the west, or put this project off unless until uh Broadway becomes utilized, which I think is too far to the east as it relates to the people that need to be moved around by bicycle uh or patients here.

Again, I'm gonna stress I believe it should be to the west of First Avenue and not on First Avenue.

Um along with uh as a representative of First Presbyterian Church.

Um I also feel uh have and have reservations uh relative to what uh um Barry had to say as relates to uh crossing of 4th Street, 6th Avenue, and the increased traffic that's going to be uh in that particular area trying to serve uh uh bicycles and or pedestrians here.

Again, I'll stress I think it should be west of First Avenue or not at all.

First Avenue should not be sacrificed to the benefit of this bold move forward.

We've given them avenues and they have not incorporated the community as much as they should have or should be doing.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

We're at our time interrupted.

Extend it.

Okay, is there anybody else that would like to speak?

One more person that would like to speak.

There are several people who'd like to speak, so I will turn it over to our board and ask if you would like to extend the five minutes to allow um more people to speak, or if we would like to have them speak after the presentation.

What do you feel is the appropriate action to place thoughts?

I would move that we extend the public comment period for 15 more minutes.

I don't know to try to get that same time frame of three minutes per person.

Okay.

I have a second.

Okay.

All in favor say aye.

All favor say nay.

All right, motion passes.

Um so who would like to speak next?

Michael.

Uh Michael Lojak, I'm the executive director of the bicycle alliance of Minnesota.

Our local chapter here is we bite Rochester.

I also serve on the state's advisory council for traffic safety.

Um here to lend some support and express some concerns about what's before you in the presentation.

Uh, hands down, our biggest concern is the public hasn't had a chance to bet this, so I would give you great caution that um if you're gonna make a recommendation, there should be some process for the public to be engaged, and that just hasn't happened yet.

Uh in fact, there's been no engagement since the city council directed staff to go back and add 2nd Avenue as an option.

So we remain concerned about that.

I have a piece of good news for you that um there's been some misinformation that's gone around and there's a belief that somehow bikes can't be on Edinburgh Plaza with a pedestrian uh easement.

That is not true in the state of Minnesota.

Actually, in the state of Minnesota, bicycle can't access pedestrian easements, except in certain circumstances which the uh city council controls.

So if you're hearing that uh bikes don't have the right to be on uh Ann Burrow Plaza if we have a pedestrian easement there, that is wrong information, and we should uh push back against that.

Big picture.

Wonderful work being done on Sixth Avenue West.

Great stuff, particularly between Civic Center Drive and 2nd Street.

We want to be very clear, it's a good secondary route.

Once you get south of 2nd Street, it's not all ages and abilities.

In fact, it's not even compliant with ADA standards.

The intersections of both Civic Center and 2nd Street for a number of technical reasons are too dangerous to be all ages and abilities.

We need a downtown route, either 2nd Avenue or First Avenue could potentially work.

The problem was shown on First Avenue is there's not been enough invested in creating a complete safe route from lower town to Soldiers Field, and there appears to be no plans to do so.

So First Avenue is the preferred option, and the two blocks look like a potential good starting point, but uh it's not a complete route.

Whereas um Second Avenue has a complete route from Center Street all the way to Soldiers Field that's already largely safe, let's use in the roadway, and uh and we um the existing third and fourth going north can get you to lower town.

The bottom line is there's a lot of good work being done, but uh the bicycling community is not sold on First Avenue.

That comment that there's broad support for first this um, I don't know where that came from, but um not what we're seeing.

And um we we do think that uh second avenue has potential and really we're agnostic as long as there's a safe route.

There are huge concerns with um First Avenue south of Fourth Street, north of Center Street, and Fourth Street, the entire length of it, which is not even clear or accessible or safe today, and it's been days since it's known.

So um the idea of connecting the network using four street just isn't really practical.

We have a number of local folks who can express um some details, but I wanted to provide you with that information, and I look forward to any questions.

I'm always available to have you, and kudos to the staff who's done some really nice work on this.

Um Aaron Me here, um specifically recommending our um advocacy comment or advocacy community today.

Um letter um from the advocacy committee, pass this around or um there's here um so the talks specifically about first avenue.

Um we feel that like Michael said, there's a good couple blocks of uh proposal, but a couple of blocks of bike lanes does not make a difference.

Um see it's on the face route.

Um we're not seeing that complete route of the firm proposal, even if this is being returned.

I think that that needs to be stressed that for first avenue to work at my stretch from civic center to solver state.

Um just a point too on the new um the new proposal it's proposal B for First Avenue um that keeps um angle parking on the street.

Um the width of the bike lane and not the two-way cycle track is I think it says eight plus two feet, which is below what NACTO um said is the minimum for a two-way cycle track um next to a road.

And maybe the easiest and most efficient way or cost-effective way to um make that safer is to make First Avenue uh one-way first to not compromise on any of the parking from uh option B there with the hangled parking, but still allow the cycle track to be wider, it need but 13-foot minimum.

Thank you.

Okay, uh Jennifer Personer, also on uh we bite for uh new relatively new to Rochester.

So when I was reading that packet, it's I I felt that it you know for somebody who's near the area, it does not really explain the thought process effectively because when it's trying to say, oh hey, this is the preferred alternative in that comparison table is weighted toward um First Avenue.

When I see in the thing, yes, it's a complete route except for these two chuck in the middle, which isn't, but like how's that a complete route?

That doesn't I don't see how that's being proposed as a complete route when even in the table it says except for this chunk which you're not allowed to use.

So I that's I'm sorry, but I can't make heads or tails on why that's preferred when it's not actually there.

So that I think is is an issue for me.

And then the steepness, you know, and I think it was Jerry, right?

Made a error.

Sorry, made it a good point.

Um, that if he can't use it, it's it needs to be all ages and abilities.

It's not only bicycles, it's people with mobility aids.

You know, it does need to be suitable for the whole population who's going to use it.

And so that has to be a significant point to be considered as well.

But but I really think that if you're going to be providing those tables and saying well, alternative is preferred.

The information there needs to be accurate and complete.

That would be that would be questionable.

Is there anybody else that would like to speak?

Is it three?

Like the sidewalk is shrunk to 50% of its original size of three versus their highlights here.

Okay.

Yeah.

Anyone else?

No.

Good evening, Lizzie Krieg.

I guess I'll just speak to the first avenue bit that we're talking about.

And I mean, I just want to admitly put out there that like no solution is going to be super awesome for because we're working with a lot of UNA parts retroactively, rebuilding, repurposing, etc.

And I just hope that we can come to solution that can offer and maybe some sort of consolation prize for businesses who might be a little down about the situation.

There's this myth that I hear bouncing around all the time that parking is a perception issue.

And today, every day, all the time I hear people tell me over and over that they struggle to find parking.

I was like, what are you looking for?

You know, I had to verbally explain to them how to park, where to park.

So I think we pretend like that's really clear.

And I don't think it is for even locals or people visiting.

Um then be on a plate, so I was like, I don't think anyone they're going to ask them, but still, like I think we just really need to address that issue.

Um so yeah, I don't think it's going to be beautiful, it's gonna be rough around the edges, no matter how we hear this, maybe.

Um I hope that we all from whatever aspects we're coming from, like business owner, cyclists, whatever, can be open-minded about how we're each gonna compromise about this in different ways.

Um yeah, I teach kids middle schoolers how to bike, and I I guess just over and everything that keeps coming into my head is like continuity and predictability.

Um, and so if drivers already don't like what cyclists are doing, um, we need to figure out something that makes us look and appear even more predictable and more law abiding, and um so that they can know where we're gonna be, we can know where they're gonna be, etc.

So that's like where I struggle, I think with first is it feels like a blue that doesn't totally connect.

And I feel like I'm a strong commuter.

I take up the road, I like that, but that's not for everyone.

And so I'm also interested in a solution that will encourage new um commuters and new walkers of different routes to arrive at where they're going.

Um and I don't know if this is going to encourage people to try something really new because it isn't inherently continuous, and yet it might be our best opportunity.

So I also I mean, Ethan said this a while ago at one of the meetings that um if you all had if this is our only way to move the dial on getting more of a grid down now for more bike infrastructure in the future, which I think is what we all want.

Um, then I'm for it, you know, if this is what we really think we need to can do best to do that best flip if that makes sense.

So thanks for saying anybody else.

Um we will close the open comment period and we will set the agenda for this evening.

Um on the consent agenda, we have 4A, 4B, and 4C.

Um, we will need to move the appointment of chair and vice chair, which is 4A down to the new business as the new 6A, and then move um request for the letter for MindOt as 6B.

So that's one change the agenda, otherwise we'll keep the minutes from December 8th and the Roberts Rules of Procedure at 4A and 4B.

And then again, 6A and 6B, and then of course the informal information items of 7, 8 and 7B.

Um the agenda to me is uh for these types of mediums are very very important because uh especially when in my opinion, this is a little bit out of whack.

And that's not the case, but you have to go deep into the PowerPoint slides to find out that you're asking for a recommendation.

So and I'm sure that maybe the person who makes the agendas may not even be in this room.

But I would um I would say new business as 6A, 7A, and 7B are all new business in the fact that we are making recommendations on all three of those.

And in fact, 7A and 7B could be under old business.

But what I'm trying to get at here is, and I also looked at the uh the transmit of memos too, and they also say um informational items receive and file.

That's just not the case.

So uh I want to make a point that for us and especially for the public that the agendas do make a difference.

Um the way they're present.

Okay.

I don't know if we have anyone.

We need a motion.

I mean, do you want to we someone like to make a motion to adjust the consent agenda as mentioned, as well as maybe bring the informational items up into new business?

Sure, I'll make that motion.

Okay.

Is there a second?

All seconds.

Okay.

And this would be shown in the minutes.

Obviously, not now, but in the past.

Okay.

Yeah.

Is that how we looking at it?

Okay.

Okay.

Um, there's a motion on the table.

Uh all in favor say aye.

All right.

All right.

All opposed say nay.

Right.

Motion passes to move seven A and 7B to new business.

Yeah.

And then keep the and 6A, sorry, and 4A to the new business as well for chair and vice chair.

So we set the agenda now with the um motion on the consent agenda.

Yep.

And so is there a motion to set the consent or sorry, to vote on the consent agenda with the minutes and the Roberts rules of procedure.

So second question.

All in favor say aye.

All post say nay.

Motion passes.

All right.

So we're moving on to 6A on the new business, which is um to vote a new chair and vice chair into position for the 2026 year.

So I'm not sure how you want to do that.

If you want to nominate somebody or if you'd like to nominate yourself, um, really uh I think we can kind of go over the roles and responsibilities for chair and vice chair, which um generally tend to be setting the agenda for the chair and then also running the meeting as the chair, and then vice chair filling in um in when the chair is unavailable, but the chair the vice chair does not set the agenda at this time.

I make a motion to nominate Mike Schmidt to be the chair for the year 2026.

Is there a second?

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed to say nine.

I accept that responsibility and for vice chair.

I would nominate Dave Cash as vice chair for 2026.

I have a second.

All they were say aye.

I'll post say name.

All right.

Moving on to the request letter for support for minda active transportation planning assistance grant.

Matt, I'll turn this over to you to kind of give the introduction and bring us into where we're at today on that.

Thank you.

Uh you sharing anything.

I'm not.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Hi everyone, my name is Matt Lynch.

My title is Mode Shift Coordinator.

I work in community development at City Rochester.

And we have a request for professional advisory committee today.

And I'll share some background and make that request of you all that the city plans to apply for Minnesota Department of Transportation, active transportation planning assistance.

Grant opportunity to develop an implementation focused action plan that will advance Rochester's adopted mode shift goals, which stem from the comprehension plan.

And Rochester already has very strong plans in place, including the Active Transportation Plan itself.

But implementation guidance is currently spread across multiple different documents.

And this effort would help consolidate and prioritize that guidance so that we have uh clear actions, timelines, and measures to implement.

So the focus is on practical improvements for safety, connectivity, and comfort for walking, rolling, cycling, and accessing transit citywide, especially where network gaps exist and safety concerns remain.

And so we've uh already begun coordinating with regional agencies, educational institutions, major employers, and partners to already convene and discuss these priorities to implement or sorry, these priority strategies that can be implemented collaboratively and in coordination.

So multiple parties are interested in this effort.

From and I want I will share that PVAC's perspective is critical to this work as the action plan is really intended to translate the vision.

PVAC has long supported and it'll it'll evolve into coordinated and achievable next steps.

So we're requesting feedback support through a brief letter of support for this grant for the plan application that we've already drafted and is still in draft.

The letter reflects advisory support only and does not imply any funding policy or implementation commitments of you all.

And so I'm happy to draft that and coordinate it for review and signature with the chair.

And city council has already authorized submission of the application on January 5th.

And the letter would help demonstrate community and advisory alignment.

So I respectfully ask that PVAC approve providing a letter of support for the city brochesters planned application of this grant opportunity.

Thank you.

You previously we had discussed um email when you sent this request out that I as a requested that we bring it forward to the committee is January 13th still the date that you would like that letter um sent or at least signed by me.

I however if it needs to be a couple days later, that's fine.

We have a deadline of the 15th.

Okay.

Okay.

I don't know where you're thanks, Mike.

I I may have missed, but did you mention the dollar?

There isn't one.

Mindot allocates a million dollars per year when there were nine recipients in 2025.

I see by going on their site that in 2023, City of Rochester received 100,000 hours for a second street corridor plan.

And also in 2023, uh 25,000 for demonstration project and school street, wherever that is.

So but nothing in 2024.

I mean, that that's on the site.

I'm not sure of that.

The 11th Avenue demonstration product project might have been a beneficiary of the planning grant, but also it might or it might have been a beneficiary of the infrastructure grant.

I don't know the answer to that.

So is it when I go going through the information out there?

Um the community doesn't actually receive the money.

Does that sound right?

The money goes to a selected consultant and that consultants probably chosen by MINDA.

Correct.

So do they have like one consultant to do planning assistance for all the recipients who might get money under that part of the program?

That's my understanding.

However, there might be it might be a group of consultant um for consulting firms that specialize in certain needs for grant recipients, and we might assign them accordingly.

So is it up to the up to MINDA to decide how much they want to grant?

That's our understanding.

Thank you.

Any other discussion points.

I make a motion to uh approve a letter of support for this uh grant application.

Okay.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All opposed say night.

Motion passes.

All right.

Moving on to seven.

Well, I guess moving on to the six C.

Thank you.

Project update, reimagining Sixth Avenue.

Ah, so you don't.

Okay.

So just before I begin, I kind of want, well, I'll introduce myself.

Mike Collins, I think many of you have heard from me before about this project.

A couple of kind of housekeeping things before I really dive in here.

First housekeeping thing.

One item that I just want everybody to be aware of, and this will be kind of through throughout the process from here on out, is that the reimagining Sixth Avenue West project and the reconnecting the bike, reconnecting the downtown mobility network are now going to be separated into two separate distinct projects.

So that's just something to look out for moving forward.

That's the way it's presented in this in this meeting, and that is the way it will be presented at future meetings.

So for purposes of this specific presentation that I'm about to give right now, we're only talking about the Sixth Avenue component.

And that Sixth Avenue component ranges from Civics Civic Center in the North and 2nd Street Southwest to the South.

And then the other point I want to make is just thank you to everybody who's given your public comments and has been involved in our public engagement event so far.

That is actually super helpful for us to take that feedback in and help us kind of refine our plans and make sure that we're moving both sides of this project in the direction that's that the community wants to see.

So diving into it, we have a kind of a large project team here.

Just from the city side, anybody who's in the room, we have Cindy Seinhouser in the room.

Steve Sampson Brown is part of our project.

I'm the project manager.

We also have uh Matt Lynch, who's also in the room and has been involved, and then of course our public works teammates, Dylan Membrowski and Sam Bogzina.

Um we have representation from uh destination medical center through Brooke Carlson and obviously our uh consultants uh see Alex and Tom Thatwick through uh Tool Design and Gamble Associates.

Um so we do have a really kind of robust project team working on this.

Um so um that's just kind of to introduce everybody to uh to our team.

Um another thing I'll add here is really the purpose of this project.

So if you've been over by Sixth Avenue West at the moment, you'll notice there's a significant road closure.

You'll notice there's a lot of uh construction going on there.

The purpose of this side of the project is to really develop a vision that's kind of built and with built in kind of um with heavily community community input to make sure that the way that street looks and the way that corridor functions after that construction is one that everyone's happy with.

Um so that's the purpose of this.

We want your input.

We want to make sure that uh the work we're doing benefits the community as a whole and is is done um with the community um along the way.

There we go.

Um so project timeline where we where we're at.

Um so many of you have kind of been involved.

I know I've come to speak with this committee multiple times, but for those of you who who are don't regularly sit on this committee, um, we started our project initiation back in September.

Um just kind of fast forward.

We did do a uh city council study session in November.

Um since November, we have done some additional outreach, which I'll get to in a later slide.

Um, but we also are coordinating very closely with the um adjacent developments that are happening along Sixth Avenue.

Um obviously Mayo Clinic's doing a significant um development right um up against Sixth Avenue.

There's also private developments in that area, so it's a really dynamic and complex area.

Um we've been doing a lot of that work, and then obviously we've been taking the feedback that we got from uh both both this committee and uh city council at our public engagement events into our plans and kind of refining those and um where we are today is kind of presenting um those updates and then uh we do we do hope to uh go to city council in February to consider some recommendations.

Um this is just a summary of the engagement.

You will notice this is engagement for both sides of the project when we were conducting the the engagement, these projects were combined.

Like I said, moving forward that will be a little bit different.

Um but we have had um a fair amount of engagement.

We've done a total of 22 engagement events, six open houses, uh, two two site visits.

We've done door knocking on all three corridors, uh, both in the first phase of the project and in the second page, stage of the project.

Um, I believe we've spoken with over 28 businesses, um, and we've also uh made a connection with UMR and got um you know, got to speak with them about their future plans, um two neighborhood meetings and um uh business and property owner uh meetings, uh a specific meeting for business and property owners that are along the affected corridors.

Um so just a quick snapshot of kind of the the engagement work we've done today.

Um so where we are, I've already mentioned some of this uh coordination with the JSON and overlapping projects is ongoing.

Um that's one of the kind of the biggest challenges for this project is making sure that the work we're doing gels with the work that Mayo Clinic is doing and the private developers are doing, um, because like I said, this is quite a dynamic corridor, and we need to make sure that we get it right.

Um so that's why we have ongoing conversations with both the private development and uh what's happening at Mayo Clinic, um, and identifying design changes that may be necessary based on other plans.

Um parking proposal, the parking proposal that we that we're bringing forward um would be kind of very limited for pickup and drop off.

And we'll get to that a little bit when we show the um when we show the actual uh kind of concepts that we've developed.

Um, and then intersections.

I know this is um we brought to the study session that we're still working on the intersections.

Unfortunately, those conversations are still going, ongoing.

Com February when we do hope to go to city council, we do hope to have that issue resolved.

Um, but that at this current stage is still kind of a work in progress.

So just full transparency on that piece.

Would you back meet before the February council meeting or the council meeting maybe before?

I believe it's before PBAC or on the same day.

On the same day, I believe.

It's on the same, I believe it is.

So it's Monday, the second, or yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that could be a situation where we come back, but city council, I believe, is first, or no, there they actually directly overlap, so no, that we wouldn't be able to come here at that.

Correct.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and Mincy, I think this is um one of the things that we didn't share when we were here last night to talk to this group is the corridors in the downtown area that are actually showing up on MINDAC's pangary network for vulnerable road users.

So this is um these are pedestrian specifically, pedestrian plus other.

If the map were zoomed out, you'd see some of Highway 14 and intersection R63 and 14 showing up as an overlap between um pedestrians and bikes, but more specifically on the pedestrian uh network here.

So six it's it's interesting that all these corridors we're looking at, Broadway, First Avenue, Sixth Avenue, and Second Street are all major corridors within the community, and they're showing up this areas where safety improvements are really needed.

Next slide.

Oh, do you want me to do that link?

No, sorry.

Okay.

Um the vision that we're aiming for on this really hasn't changed a whole lot since we last visited.

The idea is to create a great street along this corridor that is also a complete street, and one that creates an opportunity for an experience that can be memorable and can enhance the neighborhood and the community connections along the corridor and through to the north and south.

Um, the features of the corridor retain one travel lane for vehicle movement in each direction, north and south.

Sidewalks on both sides.

But the proposals to widen the sidewalks a little bit.

Um the boulevards with some furnishings in them, and then a protected two way by point that would have a double boulevard.

This probe or this cross-section can't be um retained through the entire corridor because there'll be some points where there'll be churn lanes at intersections.

And so this space will have to get real tight.

There'll still be a protected bikeway there, but we'll lose some space because of the pen lines that have to be included.

Um I have a question, but I also have an overriding question that is because there's so many slides tonight.

Is it okay if we ask a question when there's slides on the screen of either of you or presenters?

If if you don't mind making a note, we do have a section for questions at the end of each specific part.

So that might just help us get through everything.

But if you want to make a note of that, we can certainly go back with your uh when we finish our presentation.

So some of those answers might be answered in future slides.

Generally, this is the overarching way in which we're proposing space be allocated because it gives a concept level design.

It's not intended to be really detailed.

But the idea here is to capture the essence of having um double boulevard with the protected bikeway sidewalks on the outside, another boulevard here, and then one way uh travel in each direction for vehicles.

The other features that you're gonna notice here are some narrowing down at the intersections to to shorten the crossing distances for pedestrians as well.

Um, we're hoping that this corridor can also be enhanced with quality tree plantings that will support more mature growth more quickly, and that happens with the type of soils and structure that you put those plantings in.

Yep.

Um so kind of where we are with this.

Um Sixth Avenue, um, because it's the um kind of accelerated nature, obviously there's work happening in that corridor at the moment.

We want to make sure that our work can catch up to some of that and um uh kind of team up with it.

So we are hoping to um bring a concept conceptual design to city council on February 2nd.

Um this will allow us to proceed to kind of um preliminary design, ultimately leading to final design and and construction plans for this corridor.

Like I said, there's lots of moving parts.

We have to coordinate with lots of other um other developers in that space.

Um, and then other areas that will need to be further developed.

So this um has a dynamic corridor, there are a lot of things going on, utilities, drainage, innovation, urban design, street inspections, and treatments.

A lot of that will happen during the preliminary design and the final design process.

So um kind of what you're seeing here tonight is a concept.

We want to make sure that people are comfortable with that concept before we start um really hashing out these specific details, but the specific details will take place during the preliminary design process and the final design process.

During that final design process um and preliminary design process, I suppose, um, we will come back and we will have public engagement.

This is where we're going to be asking for public input on more specific items.

So what we're presenting to you now is is an overall concept, but there will be specific items along that corridor that we are going to want public input on as we as we kind of work through the the stages here.

Um timing, advanced final uh advanced to final design is is as soon as possible.

And like I said, a lot of that is the coordination.

There's work happening in that space already.

So if we're to get our design to catch up and for input that you all um provide to us and input that the general public provides to us into that plan, um that we we kind of need to move to that uh preliminary and final design stage as soon as possible.

Um because of the other um kind of uh developments happening in that space.

The area from 2nd Street Northwest to Civic Center is potentially going to construction in 2027.

That is you know dependent upon other developments in the space.

So um that may flush away a little bit.

Um segments south of 2nd Street Northwest will be coordinated by other developments, and that that is primarily the mayo development that's happening in that space.

Um, I know there's um obviously both the the future Osman site and then the logistics site are right in that area.

Um, and as a result, some of the timeline for that space will be 2028 and 2029, of course, with a little caveat that there's uh the potential to change.

Um Sixth Avenue from 2nd Street Southwest to 4th Street Southwest, you will hear a little bit more about that piece of the project and the reconnecting to mobility side of the presentation, which will come up next.

Um so I'm not gonna spend too much time on that here.

Um reimagine Sixth Avenue West.

So obviously we'd like feedback and uh um we'd like feedback and general public input on um our concept plans, and then like I said, the um the segment for uh Sixth Avenue, Sixth Avenue south of 2nd Street Southwest support um will be discussed at the at the at the next presentation.

But um if you had comments on that and overall connectivity, we do realize that it's the same street, so um that's why we're we're welcoming input on that as well.

And then if pack is supported with the of the conceptual design we have here for Sixth Avenue, um, a letter of recommendation or letter of support would be um it's is something that's uh this committee is capable of and um something we'd like you to consider.

Um I think that sums up uh this yes, so I will actually leave it um open for questions and comments at this time.

And I know you had a question earlier, so yeah.

Could we go back to a slide?

Yep.

And it was this one, right?

Uh yes, sir.

Yep.

Because six avenue is a is one of the few streets that it runs from Civic Center all the way down to Ford.

And um so when we see 10-2 feet for the lanes, is this a uh like an 11-foot travel lane, a 12-foot travel lane?

Or what are we showing there?

Steve, do you want yeah, you name to that?

Or yeah, go ahead.

Okay, I I believe it's 10 foot or the full lane, the furniture foot with the gutter pan.

Yeah, curb and gunner, concrete curb and gunner, yeah, exactly.

Is that the intended um design for the entire Sixth Avenue corridor?

10 foot lanes, yeah.

From civic center drive to 2nd Street South West.

That is the that is the proposed.

Uh just because you have two yellow lines in the middle, does that mean that there's going to be something like that in the uh street?

Go ahead.

Center line line sharping?

Yeah.

Oh, we haven't got that far.

Well most likely, but not every street in Kutsky neighborhood has a center line.

So yeah.

Well, my comment is it should surprise us that the distance from Broadway, which is a major north-south route in this town over to Highway 52 is one mile.

Sixth Avenue is 40% of the way from Broadway to 52.

Let's call it halfway.

Um 10 foot lane to me is almost a form of traffic calming because it doesn't really promote through trips that much when the lanes are that narrow.

And since it is, I let's just say it's the answer.

It's the answer to the other north-south route from Broadway to 52.

It would seem to me that we wouldn't want lanes that narrow.

And you have a lot of right-of-way there.

So there must be a reason why you're hoping to have only 10 feet.

The boulevard themselves are it's to promote traffic calming.

So this has been identified as a pedestrian focused corridor.

Uh again, we want traffic driving at 25 miles an hour or less, and one of the ways to do that is narrow things up so it's not quite so easy to bomb down the road.

And that's why we've recommended a 10-foot travel lane.

Good.

And I'll just add to that.

It's also a way for us to get additional space to any landscaping.

It should create like a finger new patch green space lines.

Right.

We can see that.

Any other questions or comments on Sixth Avenue?

I mean, yeah, that's that was the next thing I was going to bring up is um if does the committee feel that you have you have a wrong support for the for the concept, any feedback, that type of thing.

And if I can just add some context to this request, when we get in front of the city council, they often ask us PVAC think.

So we're just asking for clarity.

It can be a form of a written letter after today's meeting, can be a form of some form of vote during today's meeting, but we're just looking to provide clarity to the council on based on where you stand on our particular proposal.

I I think it looks pretty good.

I like the idea of calling your project.

So it's just as the new person.

I don't know.

This is a something that maybe you're gonna get to later.

But is this corridor?

A place for bikers mainly drive through and not stop, or is this a corridor where bikers stop and leave a place to lock up your bikes and do something in the community that is within a block or two of this corridor?

I don't know if you can answer that question or not.

But if I'm on this bike corridor, and I want to park my bike, will I be able to do that?

Will there be places to lock up my bike?

So one of the ideas that we uh so ultimately that those types of specific decisions will be made through in the next phase, you know, when we get to preliminary design.

Um, but what I can say is obviously there's a there's a pretty significant hospital going up uh right along this corridor along the hotels, um uh again right along this corridor and uh and a couple um private developments.

So we have people have brought up in our in our previous public engagement that they'd like to see something like that.

And so that's probably something we'd consider as we move into the next phase, but um nothing's been concretely decided right now.

There's additional context to do where there's developments, housing developments that will offer street level activity in addition to the hundreds, if not thousand dwelling units at both Civic Center and uh Sixth Avenue and Second Street.

So those are two that we that are being planned now, and so there's going to be more destinations and activity between as well.

And mayor clinic has two secure bike rooms that are um within a block of this as well.

Mayo clinic.

Oh, oh yeah, so there's two, or it would be more Mayo affiliates, but there are two bike rooms that are adjacent to the corridors.

And I can say that I mean I think there's space in the cross section or just like in the adjacent area, but whether it be the city or this uh I mean it is right up against Mayo property as well.

That I think there are opportunities for more acts and other amenities along the corridor.

Okay.

Thanks.

I would make the motion that PBAC um formally um recommend uh proceeding with reimagining Sixth Avenue and West projects and just by a letter of support to city council for their February meeting.

Is there second?

Any discussion.

Okay, all in favor say aye.

All opposed say nay.

Motion passes.

Thank you, Mike.

Thanks.

Um, we're ready for the next agenda.

Um so the um, like I said, we've separated out these two projects.

So we're now just talking about reconnecting the downtown mobility network.

Um and so it's broadly the same project team that we presented in the in the previous slide from the um from the reimagining sixth avenue um uh slide.

But in terms of the timeline, it's again broadly the same.

Moving forward, they might be on different timelines, but up until this particular stage, they've really been on the same timeline.

Um, and uh one kind of difference is although we are coordinating with private developments along uh some of the corridors we've studied with uh reconnecting the downtown mobility network.

Um a large emphasis is focused on kind of outreach to whether it be businesses, uh residential buildings or institutions that are along these corridors because again, we're talking about um different streets in in many many of them at least are different streets.

Um this is broadly the same because again, when we were doing the the public outreach, I'm not gonna spend too much time on this.

Um the as we did outreach the first time, um, we did outreach for both sides of the project.

Um, so the statistics here are the same um as what was presented earlier.

Um Mitzi, I don't know if you want to speak to this, but um yeah, I think this is where you yeah, we can so anyway.

But one thing just to point out is uh the corridors we're studying are Sixth Avenue, First Avenue, and Broadway.

All of them are on the high injury network along the 2nd Street Southwest, which we all know runs straight through the middle of all of them.

Um so um just kind of demonstrating uh that improvements to these corridors could you know safety is is of paramount importance, and that's why this this slide is kept in here.

And like one of clarification, we're also now studying second avenue after after the request of the council.

Yeah, yep, but it wasn't on the high embrace network, but yes, we are studying second avenue as as a result of uh council motion on December 1st.

Um I just wanted to point out as we look at the um uh reconnecting the mobility network.

Um I wanted to point out that we do have an active transportation plan that was adopted in 2022.

Um I've we've heard a few times today about all ages and abilities, so I did want to put uh that definition here that was in the ATP, and that is bicycle trails and on-street lanes designated uh to be comfortable for all to all a range of bicyclists, including children, seniors, women's, women, people with disabilities, people moving goods and cargo, people of color, and low-income riders.

Um, and then I do have a couple uh snapshots here of uh the identified triple A facilities and both um sixth and first and part of second, if I can orient myself on this map, were identified in that um uh in that plan.

So um that's I just kind of wanted to make sure that I uh we we both provided that definition and also um uh provided uh kind of clarification that that these corridors were identified um as um as future developments and then optimism.

Okay, thank you.

Um I think we already kind of identified the corridors here, but this map did add the second avenue corridor from center street um down to fourth street.

So those are the corridors we were primarily looking at with this project.

Uh yeah, you just down the corner.

Oops, did I go too fast?

That's okay.

There you go.

Yes.

Um the things we we we found really compelling about what's happening in the downtown is the number of developments and redevelopments occurring within this vicinity and community development put together uh locations of different projects, what they are, how many dwelling units, these are all residential dwelling uh multifamily projects.

Two of them have a commercial or retail component in them, but overall, this is over 1500 new dwelling units within very close proximity to all of these corridors.

Um the other thing that uh may not be that obvious.

We didn't bring this map to you before.

Uh it's something that we developed since we last met, but because of all of the different activities in the downtown, the upsizing of utilities, the things that need to be done in order to support a more dense, compact and significant footprint for the medical clinic.

Um a lot of streets are going to be torn up in 2030, and they're gonna be torn up sometimes only because primarily because of what's underground that needs to be replaced, and each one of those is an opportunity to reset what what the finishing uh project looks like.

Uh, the other thing that it does is kind of highlights the disruption for everyone in the downtown, whether it's the businesses, the motorists, transit users, or so people walking and biking who are relying on very few corridors to be able to make their way through here as well.

Um we started to look at different ways in which the reconnecting the mobility network could potentially be looked at.

Uh there are a number of different maps here.

I think Dave you pointed that out.

A lot of different maps, and they're really just kind of rolling through what some of these different options are.

So with this one, it's identifying, you know, reconnecting the network could start with just these four blocks.

I do want to clarify the area that's shown as a dashed here.

Um that is already designed as a shared street.

So the intent there is that bicyclists would share the lane with the vehicles through that part.

That's through the piece plot the piece.

Another potential uh route that we looked at.

Um, having heard some feedback about first avenue and concerns about disruption on first avenue.

We continue to look at different options.

This option identified potential to come up second avenue and turn at third street.

That's currently a one-way that can't really be done between the curves, the way that that street is currently constructed.

It would require removing parking and then cutting through the curve.

So the space constraint there would preclude that from being just a striping um change.

And then this solution would be looking at the second avenue corridor using Annenberg Plaza.

The solid line is the only portion of this route that would be a separated protective bikeway.

These dashed lines show that those would be shared in lane with vehicles using down here using the existing street design.

And then there's some modifications happening up there, but that puts bicyclists in the space shared with um the ballet and the pickup and drop off for the khler and um and the gondon mingle buildings.

And this kind of shows that a little bit differently.

Can I go back up to that one?

This option would show you know longer term.

If there are an opportunity to continue First Avenue further north, that could be a turn that would include a longer connection.

This one just takes that piece off.

And then to take a quick uh a little bit closer look at what uh wanting to move forward.

I think you might have actually skipped one here.

That one.

There we go.

Okay, and then the other option is this is the reimagined Sixth Avenue project here from 2nd Street to Civic Center Drive.

But from 2nd Street South to Fourth Street Southwest, that would be another potential route for reconnecting the network.

You could use the arrows too.

Yep, they're here.

We'll go to the next slide.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So we were asked to just take a look.

We're not, we were not asked to redesign Annaburg Plaza, but to really just take a look at what a route using 2nd Avenue through the Annenberg Plaza could potentially look like.

So that is an exercise that we went through, and what that could potentially look like is that you could put in a protected bikeway through the plaza, but when you get to the end of the cul de sac, bicyclists would have to share the lanes within the street with vehicles.

They're really it's a very constrained space.

This drop off and pick up lanes on both sides, and it really makes it a very tight space to be able to add in a separated bikeway to that part of the part of the corridor.

And then this is Annenberg Plaza, second avenue here.

And potentially this is not part of the project that we're looking at, but potentially in the long term, there could be a protected bikeway that that would tie into, and then get you back to the sort of the Fourth Avenue corridors where there's currently uh bike lanes.

And then we'll look at First Avenue.

Um the interim solution that was identified as I'd say the preferred solution was to change the parking from angle to parallel on both sides of the roadway and have a protected bike lane on the west side of the road with a wide blocker between.

We did hear a lot of feedback around this and a lot of concerns, and we continued to iterate different options.

This is what that would potentially look like if that were the solution that was were chosen.

And I just wanted to clarify this is what was brought to um city council at the study session on November 10th.

Yes.

So this is not by S.

That's correct.

Just a clarification.

Um, and then we went back and looked at another option, one where it would minimize changing the angled parking on both sides of the roadway and really focus on changing that on the west side of the roadway to the extent that that could be done and still accommodate uh a protected bike lane.

So that's potentially what that would look like.

This is um from 2nd Street Southwest to Third Street, historic third, where you're seeing the angled parking retained on the east side, but parallel changed on the west.

When you get uh south of the historic third, though, the space constraints here uh with the the marine garden demonstration project that really narrows the road bed down quite a lot, and that does create a little bit of a challenge.

And is it really possible to retain the angled parking along this portion of the block?

So that's why you're seeing that type of a design with parallel and just part of that block.

Um and then we also did put together just a side-by-side chart so you could see some of the different characteristics and what that looks like if you're looking at First Avenue versus 2nd Avenue.

Not going to read through all of these, but happy to respond when we get to the questions if you have questions about them.

Um there are just different features and and pros and cons.

This is not meant to be a scorecard, if you will, but it's really meant to demonstrate trade-offs.

So when you're thinking about these, you're just more aware of what those are.

And then as Mike said earlier, the other part of reconnecting the network is considering Sixth Avenue Southwest from uh 2nd Street Southwest down to 4th Street to reconnect with the bike lanes on 4th Street.

So there is an opportunity for just a partial reconstruction on the east side of the block, those two locks to include a protected bikeway that would not have a grand the grandness of a boulevard, a double boulevard as you would have to the north because there are different space constraints here, and it would leave the west side of the road as is turn this we're in the city to things.

Yeah, so we'll just take this.

So I want to disclose here what got posted on the agenda.

We've actually changed the title to a preferred option versus recommended.

So first thing we want to acknowledge, and I think it goes back to the 25 blocks that DMC is supporting 38 million dollars of infrastructure construction on.

As city staff, there's 20 of us literally working on those blocks every day.

And since last week, even in the putting of this agenda, we've had some new information about sequencing with the Mayo Boat forward on bound projects, the post-sequencing of the city's uh $38 million that essentially come in and do the streetscaping.

So standing here tonight, we don't have a clear recommendation, it probably has to do with timing.

Some of the things to understand, and it's already brought up, but we understand that, and we have heard since uh our last talk with you and a starting session with the council that the businesses on First Avenue, small businesses are feeling the pressure of construction, and it's coming at them in many different ways.

So it gets down to parking supports, retail, good retail.

We understand that.

Donald Shoop has taught us that.

Uh, but we have as a staff started to look at okay, how is parking handling on First Avenue and Third Street Southwest?

Um, so there's competing priorities.

First thing I'll acknowledge here is uh we haven't completed our study, but people are staying longer on First Avenue.

So we're not getting the turnover to support trips to local businesses that probably any good downtown street would like.

In fact, you can pull in today or tomorrow morning if you want, pull up to a meter, pull out your credit card, pay for three hours, go to your desk while you're working, pull out your park mobile app, reload for another three hours.

And if you want to take a risk in 15 minute time window, as your park mobile second session of three-hour session expires, you won't get a ticket.

You can reload on your park mobile app.

So you can stay all day.

And the trend we're seeing without checking license plates and following up is we've got people who are employees from the mail clinic, just they takes a handful, there's not a ton of spaces.

They're choosing to pay a premium to park there to make it convenient for them to get to work versus the other options or employers are currently offering.

Contractors, the same thing.

We can see if you show up in the morning, you can see who's dressed for construction, work for the day, and they pull in and they're just willing to pay a premium.

Mayo clinics bringing thousand plus uh trade craft workers into downtown.

There's a plan for them to shuttle downtown.

We can't control where people coming down from the twin cities are going.

So we've as a staff in the last uh month and a half, we've identified hey, there may be a better way.

We don't have recommendations yet to promote turnover of on-street parking, which will support spaces being available for on-street parking.

So that's a layer to this timing that we haven't uh ready to make a recommendation yet.

Um also talk about intern design.

So any good city in America, uh Jersey City is a great example nationally.

You know, they don't spend money on concrete, they prototype first and then they fine-tune.

That's why we're calling for when this uh if this uh option moves forward on First Avenue.

We essentially use paint and planters and see how it works.

We can make adjustments within a week or two if something's not working at a particular intersection, or we can observe for a whole season and say this is generally working well.

Let's then move forward as a staff and make a recommendation to make this more permanent through the city's normal budgeting of its capital improvement project.

Keep in mind for the reconnecting the network option uh through city mail agreement.

We have 480,000 to work with, and some of that's gonna go to a designer.

480,000 doesn't buy us a lot of curb relocation, streetscaping and things like that.

So that's why we're proposing an interim bill at some point on for focused on First Avenue.

Uh again, we've already revised our approach to retain the angle parking on the east side of the street.

Again, we've already revised our approach to retain the angle parking on the east side of the street.

Also looking for opportunities.

I think Nolan Shields here from our parking division.

As a staff, we've already talked about hey, there is space available in the ramp at the end of Third Street.

You know, are we signing well to get more people to understand that there's space available?

So we're looking at strategies there as a staff too.

And again, these are these are things that we've been working on week to week, and we'll continue to on week to week.

But those are some of the driving factors.

Again, we're trying to minimize loss of on-street parking.

You know, we all like convenient parking, readily convenient parking.

So the question is for any urban community in downtown area.

What's the trade-off?

What else could you have if you gave up a little bit of a convenience to allocate that space within the public right-of-way for something else?

One of the things the city staff sees at First Avenue is any main street retail suffers when it gets disconnected from the people that will support that.

We know through other communities and other research that bikers generally are prone to supporting retail along their ride.

That doesn't mean every bike is going to stop and ride, but more than a car driving 30 miles an hour down a street, making an impulse by a biker at a slower speed, is more willing to stop and linger in a retail space.

So that's one of the layers we see as staff here.

Again, a lot of things, which is why we're leaning towards First Avenue is a recommendation more than second avenue.

Again, modified payment markings for the interim build.

We could really uh do that quite quickly, which in my mind means if it's a terrible idea and it's not working, we could also reverse it quite quickly.

So there's some flexibility there in our approach.

Um again, Sixth Avenue West, 2nd Street to 4th Street.

Um talked about protected bike lane.

Now the other thing I want to go back to is the our community development provided this.

Can you bring up the map of future developments?

Oh, there you go.

Okay, so first thing I want to add this is uh first and banks.

So this is uh just about open.

Uh the one thing that's not shown here is UMR in the last couple of weeks have come out and said we're looking at putting a thousand students on this site through through property that they own over the next several years.

One of the things we heard on our our ride with the biking community is first avenue already has a traffic signal.

For riders that are not advanced, why first have versus second at this location?

Uh we've heard people are more comfortable with less ability or maybe a cargo bike crossing where there's a traffic signal versus at second avenue where it's uh essentially on uh not control.

So we've got a density of a thousand students, we've got first and banks, we've got some other developments.

You know, where are they all going?

If my thought is if you're living in downtown and picking one of these spots, it's not because you love to drive your car everywhere.

You're choosing an urban environment because that's a lifestyle that you like, and these folks tend to walk and bike more than other places that live.

People live in suburbia.

I live on the southeast corner of town, past 50th Avenue, and I drive every day.

I don't bike into downtown, but these folks are more out and about.

So again, it's a factor influencing how are we providing a connected network now that we're getting some residential density in our downtown and downtown's evolving over time.

How do we capture that?

So I think maybe I'll pause there if we have any questions, but just want to provide some of the logic of why we're leaning towards First Avenue.

Um, the last thing I'll just touch on.

So Mike brought up the definition that we as staff are working under of an all ages of all abilities network.

Other documents have different um versions than that, the natural design guide, the Ashto design guide, all have different versions of what's an all-ages, all abilities network.

But here we have a council adopted plan.

So that's our definition of staff, and it's a little bit more open-ended.

Uh, I will I will acknowledge the grade going up Sixth Avenue is tough.

We took a ride on our community bike ride, 30 people made it up the hill, but not everybody would.

Maybe an eight-year-old one, uh, maybe an eight-year-old would not, but uh, we still feel sixth avenue is a route worth investing in as a way to build out the connected grid because many people would use it.

Maybe it's just not for everybody.

First Avenue, uh very flat route, calm traffic.

The trade-off there is the two blocks through heart of the city.

You're riding in traffic, as Mitzi pointed out, heart of the city really was designed as a shared street, but it's not a protected bike lane.

And I feel like as city staff over the last year, most people prefer the behind the curve option.

That's the majority of feedback received.

Amy sitting here, she worked on East um Street, thank you.

That was wrong.

So same thing, that's an option uh behind the curve.

So generally a staff will looking to implement behind the curve options in those many places.

Just want to add one thing, Steve.

Uh, just related to the comprehensive plan, it's its objectives to uh provide affordable livable quality life in Rochester.

The risk and what the city is working towards is providing transportation options to residents and visitors.

And the risk is if if options are not available, everyone to go towards the default, and that means increased congestion.

It means increased demand for parking, and it means everyone's competing for a finite space.

So we are trying to provide options to be available, uh, so that people can make be making short trips, like Steve said you may not make the trip downtown, but maybe somebody who lives within one mile radius, certainly that spot open for Steve to drive in and park.

So we're trying to provide these options to the community.

So that's the risk involved here too.

Is we want to provide them because if we don't, there will be competition for finite space.

Yes, it's first of a comment.

I think it'd be helpful in these uh different plans to get a sense of the the number of uh parts and spaces that are changing, or just a proportion or something.

It's kind of hard to evaluate, you know, especially with like the angle versus the parallel, like what is the actual change in spaces and how that'll put that people.

I think my case so option A, which is the option that we presented to city council in February, or sorry, in March, or well, November.

Thank you.

Um that option um was uh the existing in that in that corridor right now is 75 spaces.

Um that proposal has 30 spaces between uh second street southwest and fourth street southwest.

So that is a reduction of 40 45 spaces.

Um option B, which is the one uh with parallel on one side, um, again, 75 existing today.

Um, that option would have 41 remaining, which is a reduction of 34 spaces.

So we were able to get some spaces back by doing it that way.

Um those are the numbers at least between those two streets.

Um, and then the second just the question is were there any plans looking at connecting uh as far as like the reconnect mobility network, including Broadway, because there's the protected bike lanes that already exist that go down to like center or something, um, that kind of just end there.

Is there were there any like plans or just kind of like studies looking at connecting with that?

Yes, it was an early on option here.

Keep in mind our total budget based on agreement with um clinics 480,000.

It it came to us as as staff and our engineering team, you know, that's a five, 10, 20 million dollar type of corridor redesign.

Uh traffic speeds tend to be higher, so we'd want to deal with that at the same time while we're creating space behind the curb, and that's just really became an interim type of option.

Now, I think as staff we've identified, hey, that'd be a good long-term goal.

As you pointed out, we've already got uh north of the railroad tracks, we've already got the lanes in place, so it's part of a long-term build.

It's just the funding isn't there to, and we were tasked to reconnect the bike lanes on the shorter term uh time frame rather than longer terms.

Okay, yeah.

Um when thinking about some of these networks, um I find it really valuable if there's a lot of lot of options because we don't know where people are going to come from.

Um they're gonna come from everywhere, they're gonna look at their options, they're gonna make the decision about how they want to get there, and the more options we provide, the more people can be served.

Um, with that in mind, um like sixth street, especially between the South or Sixth Avenue between 2nd Street South and Fourth Street South.

Um there any like is there any I don't know, is there any numerical way to quantify your overall connectivity of a network?

I don't know, maybe that's a misty question.

Yeah.

Um, well, maybe if we want to mean kind of the broader network map that might be a little more how to fall.

Okay.

Um in this case, I think it's less about assigning quantitative score to it.

And it's more about what does it mean if it's there and what does it mean if it's not there?

What does it mean if it's not there?

Okay.

So if you end up without this key, uh-huh.

You really need to rethink if you're gonna build protected bike lanes on these two blocks.

Because you don't want to bring bicyclists down to second street and just drop them there.

You're gonna second street's gonna change.

It's not gonna continue to behave the way that people have known it in the past.

With dedicated um transit lanes on the outsides of the street, or the south edge of that, there's gonna be pretty frequent transit movement through there.

And without a protected bikeway, that would be um not advised as a solution.

Even though there's a hill here, it would be protected, and that would be a better solution than dumping people out on the second street.

So that that's part of you know how to quantify that.

If you don't do this at some point now in the future, do you really want to do this then dump bicyclists right at second street?

I also know there's like a employee parking uh block employee parking room around that on six, is that on the uh there's a peer bike and say the west ramp that's against the uh against the corridor there, yeah.

So if you don't have that stuff on six to the south, now you're saying bike over here, bike north, bike back along center street, and you'll maybe be able to do the 2030 or the directness of a route does matter too.

And I think for people who are whether you're walking, biking, or driving, honestly, if you have to do a lot of things saying you need to fix the picture on it.

I would just say I'm uh most definitely in favor of the complete floor or including the purple section there on Sixth Avenue.

I think having a safe um protected facility, including the hill, totally understand that it is too steep to be an AD, I think is still a massive improvement over what it is today, and very much worth doing.

Um the curiosity I have is uh it makes sense when we're coming down from the north with third and fourth avenues with the green dotted lines ending at center street there.

Okay, I can go east or west and that do whatever.

But my curiosity is on the other side, third and fourth avenues from the south.

Is there any expectation that like mayo would create some like okay?

I can like cross second street here and then park my bike because I'm coming to an appointment where I'm a staff member.

We haven't really got that far.

Uh we have talked to staff, you know, are these bike lanes to nowhere essentially?

Yeah, uh Minsi's right, uh the the bat or business access and transit red painted uh transit lines that will be the link BRT project at this point, based on the uh uh traffic, the the bus traffic flow, the amount of signals on second street.

We are not advocating for bikes to share the bat lanes or other communities such as Madison, Wisconsin that allows the in downtown bikes to be in there by that lane.

Um we don't think transit efficiency-wise, that's gonna work out too well.

So um in terms of it mayo identifies facilities for a landing point uh in terms of parking, that's probably where that will evolve to.

We just haven't got to that part of the conversation.

Okay.

And then I guess last comment would be option B here.

I think I have some reservation around second making the jog under the third street ramp there.

I and I think it is a width as well as like lighting concern, and I guess I would have there um where I would probably prefer it riding continually down second or first.

Okay, okay.

Question on peace plasma.

We've we've heard over time that the plaza has all kinds of letters all over the place and it affects walking on it, and that same surface is in is in the drive, the drive lane on First Avenue.

And some bikes show piece bother here.

Yeah, some bikes have smaller tires, some minor latest bike as wider times.

Is there any consideration to making that a better surface if you're gonna have bikes in the lanes with the cars where it's better?

And the other part is there's these poles on both sides.

That maybe would be more of a concern if the bikes were supposed to be on the sides of the lanes, but it sounds like they'll be in the middle of the lane.

So that may not be such a problem, but what are we saying?

Or what's the plans for Peace Plays itself in terms of straightening out the surface?

So for peace, peace plaza roadway surface, there is no plans to modify it currently.

Now, again, as Mike's pointed out, we have a lot of information to be at about the 10 to 20% design part of the process for either of these two projects.

So uh I do think as we get into it out on Peace Plaza, East Peace Plaza, which has the poem.

Um, there's actually pavers with two different heights uh that are out there.

You may have never noticed that.

Uh there's a higher profile letter and a narrower one uh closer to the street.

So I believe I was not here when they built Peace Plaza.

Um I don't know if you happen to remember the street has the lower profile letter, but we could certainly look at possibly lowering the profile.

Uh that would be major surgery to the street, possibly outside our uh 480,000 budget, but it's something that we would certainly uh evaluate.

Yeah, the part we're talking about is farther north.

Um it's the pedestrian crossing.

Yeah, Mike, if you can yeah, can you keep going?

All right, step on the yeah, jump back in north of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so right.

So we have the letters.

Uh this past summer we did make some improvements over here on East Peace Plaza related to uh people with mobility concerns.

Uh and like one of the things we did was we put in a couple rows of flat pavers behind the ballers, which would allow anybody that's vision impaired to identify the flat tactile surface and then getting to the uh trunct donors themselves and understanding they're approaching the edge of the street.

So um, but that's all outside.

We'd be asking people to ride in traffic.

So um, yeah, I think we need more feedback.

I've certainly ridden my bike, which probably has a medium width tire up and down the street.

Uh I guess I hadn't personally considered that.

We haven't heard of that so far, but um, definitely something we would uh explore more.

Yeah, I I don't know.

I'm under dry conditions that it's that big of a deal, but when you have mixed weather, it can affect the surface differently.

Yes, um that okay.

When you're talking about parking turnover, um, and you said we've been looking at it, you're aware of it.

Was there like a timeline when you would have recommendations and a timeline when that happened?

So we could see how effective it is, or no one.

Would you feel comfortable answering that?

Or you want me to try and maybe you can fill in the gaps so we can start.

I I think at this point we're we're like I said, we're we've under we've understood we're starting to understand the patterns.

The patterns don't fit a traditional rate of turnover that you'd want in your downtown urban retail zone beyond that.

Um in terms of have we put together a formal study?

No, I mean, I think we would probably, you know, in two to three months, maybe closer to two, depending on availability, uh, at least have some better stronger conclusions of what we've done for observation.

I don't think we have the staff or the fee to park a consultant out there and actually take counts, but we do have traffic cameras in the area, so we can you know grab a snapshot at 8 a.m., 11:30 a.m.

and 4:30, and then have you know, maybe an intern look at those.

Um, so there's some trend lines we can look at, and I don't know knowing what what other data might be available.

Um, the parking team does physically do counts out on the street, also just to look at occupancy.

Um there's there's some data available from the new smart meters that are in place now.

Um, however, it's not 100% complete just because your parked mobile um transactions are by zone, not by space.

So it's hard to tell like which space within that zone is actually occupied, whether that's 100% of the time or 80% of the time, or physical counts are are pretty accurate we take um every couple of months uh at two different points during the day.

Um, and on first avenue.

Um, I think most people in this room know it's super busy.

Um meters are probably full between 80 to 95 percent occupancy all the time.

Yep.

And I will mention uh there is some transient parking available in the third street ramp, but again, that's a longer distance back to the curb, and that's probably for the more fully mobile people that are uh need parking availability.

Well, if you're parking their lawn bank, how far away are you walking anyway?

Well that yeah, I agree.

Okay.

Um co-worker, name by name, his wife works at the Mayo Clinic, and she calls it princess parking, and she'll pay 40 bucks a day to have the convenience of doing that or whatever it costs her, and it's just some days she doesn't feel like as a designated mail employee.

Um, you know, going to her designated lot and taking shuttle bus or whatever.

So I mean, it's very hard to prove that we don't do intercept studies, we don't spot you know, we're not yeah, observe falling people into buildings, but generally you can kind of tell when someone's dressed up to work at the mail clinic and they head west on second street, that's probably where they're going.

Um like I said, if you're dressed for a day's worth of construction, it's pretty easy to identify what those folks look like.

You know, you got the third uh street ramp there.

And it seems like there's been a lot of uh disruptions to parking with a lot of the projects that have gone on over the years because the city ever looked at trying to uh kind of support that transition by using the public parking ramps or even the public parking lots in other places in town.

Um, like I don't know if it would be effective to give the businesses cards so that employees are people who show customers could get free parking, you know, enough to do that for a couple months for people to get used to using that ramp, or if employees could get some free parking if you need it on the ground level so we don't have to walk as far.

Um yeah, so um currently we have uh business validation programs, businesses are able to validate parking for whoever they choose to, whether that's employees or customers.

Um there's no specific program, let's say discount for um a downtown business employee uh has been discussed at council, uh, but no programs have been created.

Um additionally, I would say we we do work.

I mean, parking works very closely with public transit.

Um we work closely with public works transit mail clinic, we meet with them also on monthly basis, and we we we do try to collaborate and come up with creative ideas on where to put all these people that are coming into downtown, particularly during this kind of ramp above construction and um loss of parking, whether that be from old court on bound or some of our city projects for uh street restoration and things of that nature.

Um I just I think we all know that it's a finite resource, and it is definitely hard to balance, especially in this super high time of high demand.

Um, but I do think that the constraints that we're feeling are still temporary.

Um definitely willing to think of thinking more ideas and try to think outside of Boston.

Um could you remind us?

Hall on do you park for free main ramp?

The first hour yeah, so parking in the ramp for the first hours free.

Um D lings and weekends, yeah, and all the evenings and weekends.

Um I mean, the the most recent rate changes really intended uh to try to start to influence people's behavior about parking on the street, so such in such a way that it was slightly more expensive to park on the street than in the ramps.

Um, but obviously, if you're gonna park long term, parking ramp is the easiest way.

Um I would just add from one of the comments earlier.

Uh we we do continue to hear that parking is hard to find and parking's not available.

Um, and we're working on ways of doing you know, re-signing, improving signage.

Um, all of our Google information is up to date, so all the locations are um available online.

Our web pages, parking web pages are revamped all last year.

Um, there's a ton of more information on there.

It's hopefully easier for people to find uh as part of our technology improvements at the ramps.

Uh they all have digital signage outside now that tells you how many spaces are available inside the ramp.

Um, we're also working with our IT team and our mono team, which is the equipment provider for the ramps to hopefully project those um built parking spaces on the web pages themselves, uh also just trying to create additional transparency and all people find this.

So, what is the difference in cost between two hours on the street and two hours in the ramp when the first hours passed, so it's not free anymore?

So um I should have memorized, but parking at the meter is two dollars per hour, and parking in the ramp or up to two hours is between one and a half and two hours, I think is three dollars.

So it's pretty minimal.

I would say it's about an hour, like a dollar difference per hour.

I'd like to follow up on one of the members' comments here about parking and try to make it easier for people or cheaper.

Because we've all heard the complaints about losing parking on that street.

And 75 to 41 to me is still a drop point drop.

And if the city were to turn around and have a lot of signings up there saying, you know, you're gonna whatever you have to do to make it so that people are using the ramp, if it's two first two hours free or whatever, so that there's some alternative good alternative for those people who have lost parking month.

Because I I don't know.

Well, you you say you can use the technology or whatever to um make it difficult for people to park all day.

I guess if you could do it, you can do it.

But is it it's yeah, I mean, I don't know, is it against the law to do it?

It's not no, it's really just a strategy.

I mean, everybody in America, every town, downtown, everybody loves cheap uh convenient parking.

It's always a trade-off between creating that urban experience and vibrancy.

Um again, cars create dead spell, cars create dead space.

So again, it's a balance, and we acknowledge, which is why we're taking a date up and an implementation recommendation right now about balancing available parking, the extra layer of downtown construction and the pressure that's putting on both on and off-street parking, but uh no one's shared at least off-street parking, there's generally uh occupancy available, but uh people visiting uh what we're hearing, people visiting downtown prefer on street for convenience, which is understandable.

Everybody likes convenient parking, so yeah, it's it's to your point, it's um to balance.

Yes, uh I like to say Donald Shoop.

So John Shoop's an economist uh from UCLA, uh kind of the godfather of modern parking theory, and he used to say no great American city is known for its parking, so it's a challenge everywhere, but it's a balance, and it's uh that's what we're striving to hit here is the right level of balance, and I don't think we're quite there yet.

So um, we're willing to keep we're gonna keep working on it as a staff and and try and come back with a better balance.

Do we have like limited time parking downtown like like up to one hour, two hours markets?

Or from my understanding?

Uh durations, I think are you uh so other than the sun road market lot, all of the meters in the downtown core are three-hour time limit.

Okay, and then as you move outward, there's kind of uh unknown time limit meters, which are really technically only 10 hours because we only collect or enforce from each five.

Yeah, okay.

You can three hour limit, but it's actually not if you that's right.

Staff we try not to advocate uh advertise that, yeah.

Um, but it's a reality because it it informs a parker's behavior, or and not everybody parks for six hours, but there is a way to do so if you really want to try.

And again, those folks are not most likely visiting storefront retail businesses along the corridor, those folks are downtown for some other purpose, and at that duration of six hours plus, you really should be in a parking rant.

That's that's the best strategy.

So if you're using that spot, even if you're paying the city 40 or 60 bucks here, and you provide one customer from going into a store, whatever you talk to yeah, exactly.

So right now, uh, if a if a shop owner validates a parking, they're paying for the parking for the customer.

Correct.

Yeah, that's how that works.

I think during COVID, when I was I didn't work for the city of Rochester, there might have been a couple of months of like free parking program, but that was what 50,000 a month, or it was a pretty big number.

I don't yeah, I think you calculate out to be somewhere between 40 and 50,000 a month.

Um, and I'm probably knows this, but during the free parking, I I wasn't in this rule at that time either.

But basically what I heard was is it was kind of free for all when your your long-term downtown employees were taking up all those spaces on the street anyway.

Yeah, so one of your options would be to instead of re reducing the cost or making two hours free to let the shop owners know they don't there's no pay.

They validate there's no payment to the shop owner, no payment to the parker.

So there would have to be some work done that way.

But it would help out the people who are saying that their customers need parking.

Yep.

I mean, that's even they could go into the rant, but it's still free.

So they're getting their parking.

Right.

That'd be city council policy decision.

There's uh, you know, the 30 to 50,000 a month.

That that's a pretty big price tag.

Again, the way the city budgets, you know, it's just we just aren't able to come up with revenue, but we budget uh a fiscal year, two years at a time.

So again, we need to figure we need revenue to offset parking, is an enterprise fund, which means it has to operate on its own set of books.

Um, so just because parking wants to be nice and give away part, uh giveaway free parking, they really need a revenue offset, and that's gonna come from somewhere that's gonna either pay from and come from a user paying to park or coming from um other general fund revenue, which again that's okay.

Not everyone.

I think we can move off parking.

I think we're not solving any problems.

Um we we are over time.

Um, so Ethan, unless we haven't brought up any questions on the second.

I realize that.

So at this point, I know um some people may have to go.

Um, but that will also leave us um potentially without a quorum if we decide that we want to have a recommendation from feedback for this proposal.

So uh I guess I'll ask how do people feel about extending our time or or having a further conversations prior to making a form of remote on Sixth Avenue down to Fourth Street spot.

I'd if that is a proposal you'd like to make, you certainly are welcome to do that.

Um again, I I just want to respect his time.

Um, and I know that there are different obligations people have.

So um can you not give more conversation about ending tonight?

Okay, um we would I would be fine without a recommendation, but not necessarily.

I will make the motion to formally support the um Sixth Avenue from 2nd Street to 4th Street Southwest.

That's fine.

Okay, I'll second that.

Did you make that motion?

Yeah, all in favor of that motion say aye.

Uh I would post say nay.

Okay.

The second one is there any ability for this group to and is there any interest to meet earlier in February to continue this conversation?

Basically, shift our February meetings are to be for council to have some formal recommendation together for council work.

We would probably need um staff there as well, right?

To have questions put to them.

So I think we would have to request that staff come to that as well, which would be what to date that we February.

It would have to be in January, yeah.

It would have to be because the second is the meeting city council.

Yeah.

Would uh would staff have more information that we're down that we would that we've now seen.

I mean, do you expect in two weeks you would have more information?

Um I mean, I I so I think the difficult piece there is that in order for us to prepare for the February 2nd City Council meeting, our agenda packet has to be finalized and submitted by the 26th at the very very latest, um, which basically means deferring this meeting to next week.

Um it is possible that we just do not bring and see if maybe you can say this.

Maybe we for this side of the project.

Well, it's a it's a new, it's now its own project, but for the reconnecting the mobility network project, um, maybe that doesn't go on February 2nd, and maybe that goes at a different date.

Um, and we focus on reimagining Sixth Avenue for uh February 2nd, and we could potentially look at a another date or but that would require a separate meeting here because it overlaps with that February 2nd, meaning that we would take the um reimagining Sixth Avenue beast to city council just because the meetings overlap.

So to answer your question on, I think we touched on all the key points here.

We work literally every day to refine ideas, tweak ideas.

So there may be some new talking points, but there's not gonna be a revolutionary new concept or idea.

They're first Broadway's too expensive, first half has parking implications related to small business, second avenue has Hamburg Plaza and a lot of on street riding.

Sixth Avenue has the grade, and I think those are going to be the primary themes of any particular corridor.

So you would like a recommendation, but you're also going to be fine if you just get our comments.

Yep.

We will we're happy to share maybe getting a lot of comments.

And my comments are that I see defaults.

I mean, some of these people see more faults.

I don't know work downtown.

But I see peace plaza as being a problem when we look at that street, even from all the way over here looking at Google, if you can see it's got problems with the surface.

And the other is I think that there would need to be some kind of thought put into trying to deal with the parking that's lost to the shop owners or to those businesses down there.

I mean, it might be something that the council has to say yes or no, or I can't imagine just 30 to 50,000 a month that would be involved.

This just doesn't seem possible, just for some shoppers who parked.

But those are my reservations with the um one can be solved, and one of the both could be solved.

Those are my reservations.

So are we looking at having a meeting before February Sargon or saying anything about that that we recommend is that you delay until March, or you know, well, that's that if there's a motion and we can bring that forward.

Um we can also ask staff if meeting on, or if we can yeah, delay the second half of this until sometime in March to be brought to city council.

We also have a meeting in February that's not on the city council meeting if we want to staff there, push this meeting back a week or something.

Um I would like to make a motion that we advance um sorry that the pet bike committee would like to make a recommendation on the second half of the um reconnecting the network.

However, that we are not prepared to make a collective um recommendation yet, and so we would request that the city council and staff also then um push uh moving that forward until we can provide that recommendation at our next.

Oh Cindy, I just want to I just want to jump in on Cindy Steinhouse, obviously.

Although that's a motion you're making you're saying and I can give it there a second to that motion.

I would say that motion open for discussion.

So can I just jump in from a staff perspective?

Um, appreciate that um you want to have more discussion on the second half.

The reality is um the schedule, right?

Um sixth Avenue.

We we've got 30 blocks of improvements that are gonna happen over the next four years.

Sixth Avenue is the first one at the gate.

After that, it's likely Third Avenue, Fourth Avenue, Side Street, First Street, Fifth Avenue, Center Street.

So there's a timing and sequencing of this work to minimize as much disruption.

And I know that sounds hard to believe, but to minimize as much disruption as possible when you're talking about so many blocks in a 30-square block area.

I say that with the context of we can't bring the first half of this discussion in a vacuum without because re-establishing the network, sixth avenue is one of the solutions.

So bringing forward sixth avenue without a sense of the second half of this uh of the um input that we're asking for could delay Sixth Avenue, which has a significant effect.

Like Sixth Avenue's got to get designed, it's got to get bid for 27 work into 28, and right after that, we are moving.

We're already work starting work in 27 design work for something that's happening in 28, 29, and 30.

So unfortunately, I think it's a real challenge for us if you separate them.

Now, what I think could be done is even though you're not there is a sense that you are willing to make a recommendation, an advance recommendation.

You can certainly provide your pros and cons around each of the options that have been presented for the council to consider.

But it's I'll just be honest, it's not gonna be possible for us to delay bringing a recommendation to council on the reestablishing network.

separate them now what I think could be done is even though you're not if there is a sense that you are willing to make a recommendation an advance recommendation you can certainly provide your pros and cons around each of the options that have been presented for the council to consider but it it's I'll just be honest it's not going to be possible for us to delay a bringing a recommendation to council on the reestablishing network just when you think about the context of everything that is happening over the next four years four years now 2026 to 23rd 38 million dollars of street movements and then the starting movements in a resting 30 support block area actually or are we just gonna go with an old separate comments or so point of clarification I believe there's a previous motion blocks on the sixth avenue so we heard that is staff I guess what to do on the east side of downtown is probably where there's there's not a strong consensus if I can kind of share what I'm hearing correct so the motion on the table was to delay until we can have our next meeting and we haven't established when that next meeting will be okay right so is do we want to amend the motion to have a date for the next meeting and then vote on whether or not we as the committee and staff are able to attend that meeting to have further discussion to make a recommendation and just for clarity the amended time that we would have to meet is next Monday correct yeah it's a federal holiday you can't meet on a federal holiday that's right sorry and I just like to circle back in fairness to expectations of this extra effort potential what Mike said you know meetings on the second as staff we've submitted our document to the agenda process on the 26th you know we've really wrapped up our writing of the proposed whatever we're proposing on 22nd 23rd 12th we're not gonna get a monumental amount of work done in a week and a half um so essentially 90 plus percent of what you heard tonight is going to be 90% of what arrives uh to a written recommendation of the council and also discussion with the council um I'm just asking a question to Amy because I I don't 100% all the rules is virtual adoption if folks can meet sooner no I don't think I'm hearing no okay that's fine yeah yep it was during COVID but I think that was yeah I it's a good document yeah for what dates would be available to cool now and then that work with the law none of them I mean um that's your choices retract a motion to I don't I don't know I believe yeah I don't think you can retract it you can admit okay you can retract it if the second or agrees I agree to retraction okay I have to second for whatever people decide do we want to you know I've we've made comments we've asked questions the staff has that information the president of the council is here uh that's the only council person here all the staff are here um you can relay to the council and the president can also that it's a it's a very tough question I mean this these are some tough things here and um we never got in our discussion we never got to a recommendation or not a recommendation but we did discuss it and we know it's an important um develop we know it's an important piece of infrastructure and that's as far as we could get with it that's that's that's how I see it I mean sure okay uh motion that we say we support either second or first uh we do not support just six we support sixth and whatever intelligent choices made on second numbers okay that's a weird motion if anybody can remember that is there a second yeah more discussion on that all right uh so sorry just um this would be removing six avenue now as no no that's added in yeah it's just say it was fourth sixth and whatever decision is made on having either first or second but I I guess I just don't want to put us in a position where we're only recommending sixth and saying we don't even want first or second correct okay but if we have better wording for that I would love to okay all in favor of that motion uh yeah I vote say may all right is there a motion to adjourn

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

All right, say aye.

Thank you, everybody, for your time.