For yes.

And I Mike McGain.

And uh starting the meeting at 3 15.

And I see we have all the commissioners here.

So we'll go right to the open public comment period.

Is there anyone that would like to come and speak?

Okay.

Um next we'll go on to the agenda items.

Um the first thing is the monthly meeting dates of the fire civil service commission.

You guys have those in front of you.

Can I have a motion to consider those?

So we'll can we vote.

I clear howdy.

Vote.

Yay for the consider uh the consideration motion made by Mr.

Gilmore, Commissioner Gilmore.

Yay.

Yay.

Great.

Okay, and uh I vote two, so that passes unanimously.

Um the next order of business is the minutes of the last fire commission meeting.

Can I have a motion to approve the minutes of the last fire meeting?

Okay, a second unanimous the motion carries.

Next item of business is the firefighter eligibility register, approving firefighter eligibility register as presented.

Is that you carry?

Yes.

So uh I think I alluded to this a little bit.

The last month's meeting, we interviewed 126, I believe firefighter candidates, and now we are bringing forth to you a list of approximately 65.

And would just ask for your approval of that list so we can certify it and use it as a source for us in our next uh couple rounds of hiring.

Right.

Any discussion?

I do.

Um out of these 65, excuse me, sorry.

How many of these have their their search as firefighter one, firefighter two?

I have a spreadsheet that I did not bring with me, but you have numbers.

Sure.

So it looks like out of the top 20, 12 of them have both of their required EMS and fire cert.

So it's a firefighter two cert and then an EMT license.

Um then looking at the next so down to the 70% cutoff, which is our historic traditional cutoff.

Uh 41 of those applicants had both of their certs.

I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry, there were 41 applicants, 25 of them had both of their certs.

So still over half.

Um then to cast a wider net, we went down five percent as a next natural cutoff, and then added 14 more candidates that have both of their certs.

So I added 24 to the pool, 14 of those over half half the exerts.

So this this percentage score is based off of their certs previous experience.

So this question part um certs, previous experience, uh you're shaking your head no, so I take it that's not what is the percentage then based on.

So when candidates come into interview, they have nine separate scores that they're given.

Okay, okay, so they have nine interview scores, and then there is a uh a question station where they they discuss history, work history, um certifications, those sort of things, but we do not give points if they have their certs versus if they don't.

We just take into consideration their life experience, what they bring to the table.

And I want to say that a lot of the candidates who came through and spoke with me also said that they had marked on their applications that they didn't have their certifications.

However, we were interviewing at the beginning of December, and uh a number of them said they were going to have those at the end of the month because they were taking horses at college.

So um, I would add a few more eventually to that list who probably have it now as opposed to the beginning of December.

Do we recruit out of those classes?

Out of the college or out of EMS school.

Do we recruit?

Do we let them know?

Hey, we're here.

Yes, we do recruit with the center of closest colleges.

Yes.

Okay, and that's for both IRA and EMS.

Usually they're dual colleges, yeah.

With the in is there like a written sorry?

Now the president chair recognizes Sean.

Oh, I just want to say with our new CPA.

If you get hired with experience, the chief has the opportunity instead of you up one or two steps with your wage scale.

Okay.

So just to say that we do in the end, we hire somebody now.

We have that option to hopefully draw in more people.

The recruitment that we have.

So if you worked in a different department, it's your discretion to come up uh uh two steps.

So that's new as of this last uh union contract, which was just settled around the first of the year.

So we haven't had a chance to really advertise that, but that is a great recruitment tool that we have now.

So like on this current list of the top 20, it looks like five have other career fire experience.

So they're a firefighter somewhere else in you know this part of the country.

So that gives us some latitude now to bring them in at a slightly higher pace that kind of keep them whole compared to where they're five out on the top 20.

Yeah.

But I think next time I would hope as the word spreads that Rochester you're doing what I would call as a form of a lie direct transfer, that we see a lot more career firefighters that are working elsewhere that might want to come work for City of Rochester.

Now that we is there any kind of aptitude test, written test that they have to go through in order for this process.

They don't have to have any certifications to apply.

Okay, so is there a test like any kind of written test?

No, there's no kind of aptitude postal exam, any kind of no.

Being that we're we're now at the start in April, correct?

We're going to the 48, was it 4896?

Um, we've eliminated the uh the circumference of their the radius of where you can work or sorry, live.

Yep.

And now that you have an ability to uh take uh a former uh employee and bump them up two steps.

Um it seems like we're just accepting anybody uh to apply when we could because it's it seems like it's gonna be a great department to work for.

Uh with with these things that we've we've changed, and now we're just accepting um anybody to come in.

Um so I can be a high school graduate, have a desire to become a firefighter, and I can apply.

So now I'm gonna be a part of this 126 applicants on the list and could potentially even uh score higher um than somebody that uh has experienced and has their search.

Is that I mean now we're gonna be spending more money, correct?

On in order to train these people, nope.

Yeah, but maybe you can't get hired without having minimum qualifications.

So even if say a graduate of high school 19-year-old score number one on the list that they didn't have your certification, they would be bypassed and we're they look at all the list and say number two.

And the first question is you have their working field and EMT and then S or TS when we potentially move on in the process.

You still have to meet the qualification.

And be hired, right?

But not to be on the list, correct?

So the list looks good, but it's kind of deceiving, is what I'm getting at, right?

Because they're not uh even if I had the top 20, which I assume they do have their their certs of the top 20 of the top 12 habit.

So I could potentially be on the top 20 and not have my certification get offered the job, but I don't have my search at, so then I where do I stay?

Do I stay up to stay on the list?

Do I get bumped?

Do I so if I may, or can you look ahead and go to you?

Um if I may, there's there's there's steps built into this process that aren't reflective on the list.

So for example, the chief has discretion with the rule of three, okay, and when we know the this next academy is coming up in hypothetically September, what will happen is Jill, our recruitment assistant, will start calling these candidates on the list, and she'll say, Hey, do you have your certifications?

If they say no, we bypass them and we go to the next person on the list because everybody has to have those minimum qualifications before they can proceed any further.

So they're gonna come in for a chief's interview, chief's gonna talk to these candidates, he's gonna have his discretion with the rule of three, those candidates, and we'll be brought forward for a medical and a psychological evaluation to ensure that they're fit for this role, and then a background or actually missed that in the background too.

There's a background check that's also done in conjunction with the chief's interviews.

So there are a lot of pieces to this puzzle outside of that list that really help us ensure that we're getting the right candidates in the door.

Where are you at as far as your interview in the background?

It seems like the background should probably be one of the first things that are done.

It is versus going and talking to him, get his interview, and then finding out you've got something on your your background.

So it's my understanding, and I'm not the HR professional, I'm new to Minnesota, but I believe you can't do a background on a candidate until they have a contingent offer.

So they've got to be interviewed by the chief and have an offer that's contingent on successful completion of their background and their psychological evaluation, I believe.

At least in Wisconsin, that's the way it was.

Yes, and you're shaking your head yes.

So you have to have a continuum.

I believe that I meant for that.

That is correct.

Um so if I could just follow up.

So I'm I'm sensing some some concern about putting candidates on a list that don't have both of the required certifications.

And that's new to me as well.

We didn't do it this way uh in Wisconsin.

Uh that's why I'm a fan of casting a wider net and kind of dropping down a little lower in that percentage because now we we do have a list that does include more candidates that do have both of those certifications.

I have asked HR, so we've been doing it, my understanding is two years now this way where you can apply, get on the list and not have your certs.

So my question to HR has been of the past two lists, how many candidates were offered jobs, did not have their certs, and then either A got them and they got a job, or B never got them at all.

Because I think that will tell us is this model of hiring successful or not.

If the question is we've offered 12 candidates that didn't have the required certs a job, and none of them ever got the certs, then I think we're doing a lot of work on the front end for nothing.

So it's a lot of work to interview all these folks and compile all the scores and bring you guys a list.

If the answer is we've you know offered five and all five have gotten their certs, well, then I think it's a case to be made that this process works in this way.

Um, but overall, I think there is room to evaluate what we are doing.

Um I've never seen a city before that publishes a list and then doesn't have a find the higher off it for nine months.

And I know you want a list in reserve in case something happens if some people retire or get hurt and have to uh retire early.

But my experience is your top 10 candidates or usually like your high performers, you're the ones you really want, they're gonna get the job offer somewhere else up in the cities, they're gonna be gone by the time we offer them a job in September.

So it seems like we're doing a lot of work on the front end and maybe not getting the best candidates.

So maybe finding a way to reinvent this, but still, you know, come um still working within the constraints of a civil service process.

That's the challenge.

That's that's new to me here in Minnesota because we did not have civil service in Wisconsin.

I I mean I would agree with that.

Um especially if you have like you said the top 10, and yeah, they are gonna walk, they are gonna go somewhere else, right?

I need a job now.

They'll need it two weeks from now.

Right.

Right, we're agreeing.

Um, is there a commissioner um at all involved in any of the interviews?

Can we have a commissioner?

Is that a thing that we can have commissioner as part of this the interview process?

Whether it be the the let's say the the president of that year um be a part of that.

Yeah, I don't see why not.

Then uh I wouldn't um I guess you're still on discussion.

I'm sorry.

You're still in discussion.

Do you do you have any other questions that okay?

Um I have something I want to ask you after this.

Okay.

No big deal.

You can you can't apply.

I'm sorry.

You can't apply.

I can't get through that second.

Um I just want to say whatever that we can do, I think, to make it more competitive to streamline the process, we'd be glad to look at so okay.

Um there's no more discussions.

Are we ready to vote?

Make a motion to accept the sorry.

Were you gonna make a contingent on we're not trying to put words in a motion to accept the list?

Okay.

Do we do it?

I'm sorry, go ahead.

I'll make a motion to accept it as it's written.

You have a second.

I second any other discussion on the motion.

Or is it too late?

Chair can recognize you.

Chair recognizes the chief.

Sure.

I would just uh echo Commissioner Gilmore's comments.

I I do think that the adoption of the 4896 of our work schedule here, uh the removal of the residency perimeter, and now with the lateral transfers, I do think we are going to see a lot more high-qualified candidates, candidates with experience applying here in the future.

So hopefully we can uh hopefully the conversation about candidates that don't have research is a move point.

I think you nailed it when you said those things.

Okay.

I was looking to say, are we ready to vote?

And yay or nay, but they both said yes.

You can do all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any oh, same sign?

Any opposed, same sign?

Motion passes your name.

Motion passes you hand.

Any other business?

Any any late?

And we are in adjournment.

Thank you.