Mike Schmidt, I am here.

Sarah Stevens.

Aaron Buckley.

Mike Zhu present.

Ethan Swanson.

Present.

Dave Pesh is in Arizona.

So he will not be here.

And Paula LaRochelle.

And Dave Olson.

Excellent.

All right.

Next on the agenda is our open comment period.

We have one person.

All right, Barry.

Welcome.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Well, nice seeing you all again.

Um I want to mention two things.

First, about snow and uh snow enforcement on this snow on the sidewalk.

I'm really concerned about the way the city's snow policy is being enforced.

Uh there's many, many streets where I walk by and people aren't shoveling the snow.

People are reluctant to so we have a call-in policy, which basically means unless you rat on your neighbor, they don't enforce it.

And so that's a big problem because a lot of people are afraid, I believe, of doing that.

So we we don't have as many call-ins as I would like.

Uh I'm concerned too, because uh the way the snow enforcement ordinance works, you're supposed to wait 24 hours.

Everybody knows that.

But with but what a lot of people don't know is that they don't enforce the uh the law at all.

If the next day you have an eighth of an inch, or just a minute of squibble, like a almost no snow at all, it postpones it another 24 hours and keeps doing that until they have a day that's completely without snow.

And say so you could go like we had a four-inch snow a couple of months ago.

They weren't enforcing it for about four or five days.

I I don't I don't like that.

I wish they would change that policy so that they would have snow enforcement.

Unless it was like two inches, I mean, I wouldn't keep postponing the enforcement.

It's just a smidgen of snow the next day.

I I don't think that's a good policy.

I also don't like the policy, which is I didn't know about, and I spoke to some people in the council about this, they didn't know it either, where the the uh staff arbitrarily in a way decides that it's too cold for people to shovel snow, so that they actually tell them not to shovel the snow.

Now I'm somebody who's a rollator, and I know on my blocks there's been a lot of problems with that.

And so you know, we have to go out, we have to go someplace too.

So I'm just hoping that that they can they can change that policy.

And there's other issues too about how they specifically do it.

And I'm I'm just hoping that they can the other thing is they they they have an idea that as long if there's a layer of ice and it's not a steep layer of ice, but people can't go by, that's okay too.

Doesn't say that in the ordinance, but they they just make that as sort of an arbitrary rule.

So I'm I just want somebody to look at it because right now it's it's more and more difficult during bad winter days to go to get people about.

And we're supposed to be a friendly city for everybody, and uh it's not for people who are disabled and who um have problems walking, frail people.

Um the other thing I want you to mention is about roundabouts uh with roundabouts.

I know you have one coming up at the very end.

They appear there's not much discussion about the effect of roundabouts on pedestrians.

And what happens is when you a roundabout by its definition is like a circular thing.

So if you're trying to get diagonally from one street and then diagonally to the other side, it becomes very it comes harder to sort of do that.

And so I just think there should be more discussion about what the effect is again of roundabouts and how pedestrians would actually get around that big roundabout.

And so I I think that's an issue that's probably discussed, and I'm hoping they do that uh today.

Anyway, thank you.

That's basically what I want to discuss.

Thank you, David.

All right, anybody else?

Hi, Michael, go ahead.

Michael Wojak, executive director of the bicycle alliance of Minnesota.

Um couple of quick things.

Uh Barry, thank you for the comments on the round ball.

I never actually thought about the diagonal crossing one before, but that one is uh that one is new to me.

In general, we support roundabouts and just about every circumstance they can go in because they um significantly reduce the um likelihood and the um magnitude of injuries to pedestrians.

So it's um every every situation is unique, but we do support it.

Mostly what I wanted to come here and talk to you is give you a little bit of input on Elton Hills Drive in terms of what we think is possible and um the the no-brainer no-brainer decision, which is not necessarily P-back related as going doing a four-to-three conversion on that roadway because it is so dangerous today.

A three-lane roadway can typically handle 22 to 25,000 vehicle trips per day.

The um that corridor has 15,000 or less and has been that way for 40 years and it's going down, not up.

So once you do that, you end up with a ton of extra space.

And because along that corridor, there are three elementary schools on the north side of Elton Hills Drive, and additionally the um Kellogg on the other side of Broadway on the same Videous Roadway.

We would recommend a bidirectional cycle track be put in there with a generous buffer separate separating that.

The cycle track should be no less than 12 feet in width, which is the minimum standard for a safe cycle track.

And um once you have a single lane going each direction, we don't think that there's going to be a lot of new concrete poured because this is largely uh um resurfacing project, but um certainly minimizing the number of left turns in the corridor as much as you can, minimizing the crossing distance for pedestrians from curb to curb where you are putting those new ADA um extensions in, and then creating just a generous buffer between a um cycle track and uh lanes of travel.

There's probably so much room on there that you can still have one or two lanes of parking on either side.

There's not a ton of parking that goes on in that corridor, but ultimately the goal would be to uh make it much safer, particularly for uh kids accessing the schools right there.

Uh, this should have happened many years ago, but the council punted on it in 2019.

It's a new day, and um having strong support from this group and others would be helpful.

There are plenty of pictures now from the last few years of cars laying on their side on the sidewalks where kids were walking just minutes earlier.

We haven't had the tragedy yet, but Elton Hill's design design is absolutely poor.

There is no way that the current design is defensible and with all the space available.

We encourage you to um make star statements to looking for safety improvements for all modes of trans transportation, including cars, and the three-lane option is certainly the safest design for vehicles in that corridor.

So thank you for hearing me out.

All right, anybody else here to speak?

All right, we will close the open comment period then and set the agenda.

Uh the consent agenda for today is the minutes from the January 12th meeting.

And we have an uh information item 46A, which is the Roberts Rules overview.

So hopefully you've spread that as well.

And the new business, we have the Elton Hills Drive northwest from Broadway Avenue to approximately 500 feet east of Assisi Drive Northwest.

And 7B is the intersection of side 7th Street Northeast and 11th Avenue Northeast.

Is there anything else anyone would like to add to the agenda today?

All right, maybe just one for the minutes would be it says um for the uh conversation around the north uh south uh bicycle walk corridor, bike walk roll corridor.

Um it just says first and second, and it'd be nice just to add in avenues for those in the minutes.

So okay, that'd be it.

Great.

Can you say that again, Aaron?

Excellent.

It says first and second in the minutes, but it is not say first avenue and second avenue.

And so just adding that in for clarity.

So people reading in the future.

Um don't take that to mean streets, for example.

Okay, west.

Yeah.

Excellent.

All right.

Uh first we'll have a motion on approving the minutes from with the amendment from Aaron.

Motion to approve second.

All in favor say aye.

Okay, I'll post say name.

Motion passes.

Can we also raise that part of the presentations or we'll we can do that after the next one?

Perfect.

Uh is there a motion to approve the new sorry, the information item and the new business agenda.

So moved.

Second.

All they ever say aye.

Okay.

I'll post say name.

All right.

Motion passes.

Before we get to new business, then I think it'd be worthwhile for us to go around the room and introduce ourselves.

There are some new faces and people in the room.

Um certain things.

Yeah.

Hi, Craig.

I have an else I just invest making her about that on this station system.

Uh my name is Tullen.

Um heard about the Swim Karen.

So a little bit more about it myself.

I remember that's myself.

Uh this is my second meeting.

I'm mostly listening and learning.

Hello, Larja.

Um year and a half hour.

Ethan Swanson.

Seven months on the committee.

And like one walk around.

Excellent.

Aaron Buckley.

I think I've been on PBEC now for two or three years.

And yeah, love to quite walk all around the community.

Sam Benzina, City Traffic Engineer in Public Works.

I'm Amy Kriaski, I'm the assistant city engineer in public works.

Burn Carlson, deputy city attorney, and I'm here tonight to present uh item 68 to you.

And I'm Mike Schmidt.

I'm the chair and I've been on the I think just a little bit longer than I replaced someone, and I'm in my last uh term here, but uh it's been fantastic, and I really I really look forward to coming to use meetings every every month.

So thank you.

Uh Mike's who uh agreed about your uh block button.

Awesome.

Great.

All right, with that, then we will get to uh 7-8 and you may just 6J first.

Okay, you want to go see?

Yeah, we we did informational first so Brent could get out of here.

Okay.

Um do you want to go over the 6A or is that just Brent has a pressure?

Oh, you're sorry, go ahead for that.

Yeah.

All right.

Um I know you all uh again, my name is Brent Carlson, deputy city attorney.

I've been with the city for about eight years.

Uh and I go, I advise several boards and commissions within the city.

Um PBAC is not one that we regularly come to, but uh every so often like to get to some of the other boards and commissions just to kind of provide a uh a Robert's rules update and just kind of some informational um information in regards to procedure.

I expanded this just a little bit to include government records and and uh open meeting law.

I've got 14 slides for you.

So we'll try to get this done in 15 minutes or so, as I know you have a couple of other uh important items on your agenda for tonight.

Um so maybe.

Okay, so uh just a reminder that um you are uh in this situation on PBAC, you're an appointed representative to the city of Rock as an appointed representative.

You are all appointed uh by the mayor.

Um you are a records custodian, which means that it's your uh your responsibility to maintain records in your possession.

So you might ask, um, you've probably heard about the Minnesota Government Data Practices Act before, uh, and it establishes a presumption that government data is public and accessible to the public for both inspection and copying, unless there's a federal law, state statute, or some other temporary classification of data that provides certain data are not public.

So what is government data?

Government data is all data collected, created, received, maintained, or disseminated, disseminated by any government entity, regardless of its physical form, storage media, media, or conditions of use.

Basically anything that you can think of could potentially be government data.

You might ask, well, why is this?

Why do I care?

Why is this important?

Um and the main the main point here is that any messages that you receive, whether they're text messages or their emails uh related to the official business of the PBEC could be are considered government data.

So if a member of the public were to make a data request with the city, we would likely have to disclose those.

Um and so I'd included emails, text messages, uh social media posts.

Uh so the idea here is is just making sure that um obviously when you're communicating uh in your official role as a PBAC member, uh keeping in mind that those aren't necessarily private conversations and that um they could be disclosed to the public at some point if we were to get a request.

Ownership of the device doesn't matter.

So whether you send this from a personal cell phone or from uh a city's uh phone or or tablet or computer.

Uh I thought we'd talk a little bit about um open meeting law uh next.

So all meetings of the city council, city committees, boards, and commissions are open to the public, uh, which basically means that at least 72 hours in advance notice of the meeting is given to the public.

Uh so uh as most boards and commissions within the city of Rochester do, we we adopt uh a schedule uh where I believe the PBAC meets on the uh is it the first second Monday of every month.

Um so there is a published schedule that members of the public um know about and that's how we satisfy this uh meeting notice.

There has to be public access to the meeting.

So tonight we're in a little bit different location than room 104.

So we opened up the main door into city hall.

Obviously, the door into the room is unlocked, um, so that any member of the public could come and go for the duration of the meeting.

Uh a public meeting also meeting also means that there's a record taken uh of the votes.

Uh so uh we do that with the OWL here where everything that is um said here tonight is both recorded, audio and video.

And then the fourth element is public access to the meeting materials.

We've got a uh public copy uh of the materials here.

So any member of the public that uh didn't have a chance to look at the agenda ahead of time would be welcome to use the the public copy.

So that's um may seem strange that we just have a public copy and nobody ever really uses it.

Um, but it is a requirement of uh of a public meeting.

Um so just know kind of the point on the bottom there that public access does not mean that the public has a right to speak or participate at the meeting.

Um we allow an open comment period.

Um so members of the public are welcome to speak during that, but that's typically the limit of when members of the public would be um allowed to speak.

Making a good record.

So uh as I previously noted, all meetings are recorded, both audio and video, uh, and are posted to the city of Rochester's website after the meeting.

Um again, just some practice pointers and roll ensure roll call attendance is taken at the beginning of the meeting.

The chair did a nice job of doing that just by calling out everybody's name, uh stating whether they're present or not.

I also think it's a good idea to articulate those members that aren't here, uh, just so that um the record is complete as to who is here and not necessarily assume that somebody isn't here because every once in a while, as you know, members leave the commission.

And and so sometimes you have, I think the ordinance says that you should have nine, but sometimes you have eight because there's an opening, et cetera.

So just noting who isn't here, I think is also important.

Um in order for this body to um conduct a meeting, you need to have a quorum, which is five out of the nine members present.

Um, and then in order for you to actually pass something that's on the agenda, um, a quorum of those present have to have to vote aye or vote yes.

So if you have five in attendance, at least three have to say yes.

If all nine of you are in attendance, then at least five have to say yes in order for there to be um you know for the motion to pass.

Ensure all motions are noted for the record.

I'll get back to that point in just a minute here.

Uh, and then ensure the results of all motions are noted for the record.

So um I included an example, and this is really probably something for the chair, um, but just noting who makes the motion and who makes the second.

Um, because it's not always clear from the video, and sometimes uh voices are difficult to decipher.

So if you know somebody makes the motion, say motion made by commissioner X, seconded by Commissioner Y, and then that way the record is is very clear as to who made the motion and who seconded the motion.

Um the next piece would be all in favor say aye.

Um a lot of times if everybody votes aye, um, the chair doesn't say um all opposed say nay, but I also think that's important for the chair to say all those opposed say nay, just so that um it's clear that it's a unanimous vote.

And again, we're making a good record.

Um so even if all nine say yes, um still call for the nay vote um just so that we're creating that that clear record.

And then finally, ensuring that all of the uh that the result of the motion is clearly articulated on the mo, on the on the record.

So motion something like motion passes unanimously, or motion passes seven to two with uh commission member X and Commission member Y voting nay, just so that the record is very clear as to what um what occurred.

Any questions about any of that?

I don't know if it's a question here, but um the normal practice of the commission to uh give out printed a paper copy of the agenda at each meeting, or is it just something we look at on our phones or laptops or do we get paper copies of the agenda?

Or isn't that the usual practice?

That haven't been our practice.

Yeah.

So then I'll make sure I have a normally paperless has been our practice in fact.

Okay, thank you.

Have you been getting the meeting meeting notices though?

Okay, yeah, okay.

And hopefully everybody is getting the gov delivery notices that get sent out and then the link to the to the agenda.

So good.

All right, we'll keep rolling here.

Okay, let's talk a little bit about open meeting law basics.

And again, this is all found in chapter 13 of Minnesota statute.

So again, we mentioned that and we just had it here, but the open comment period is a total of 15 minutes in length.

Each member gets a period of four minutes to make their comments.

Public hearing procedure, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this.

It's sort of a standard that's established in our unified development code.

So I I kind of doubt that you all are going to have to deal with deal with public hearing procedure.

So I'm just going to sort of skip over that part for now.

And if for some reason you have one, um, we can we can talk through that more at a if different time, but it's just sort of a specific procedure that the chair needs to go through if there is a public hearing.

Um my little note here in red um is basically what I just said is I don't think um that this board or commission really has public hearings.

So open comment period.

What I like to do is sometimes people get confused about the difference between an open comment period and a public hearing.

But because you don't have public hearings, um, let's not introduce any more confusion into it and we'll just move on.

Quorums outside of scheduled meetings.

So it's okay for you all if there's some type of a kickoff event or some type of a gathering that a quorum of the PBAC would like to attend, that's okay.

Um however, don't discuss anything that's anticipated to come before you.

So if you feel like um you're attending something that could potentially come on the agenda, whether it's the next agenda or it could be coming before you at some point in the future, would just ask that you not discuss anything.

Um looks like we have a member doring.

Which way should I go?

Probably this way.

Yeah, to member Doran.

Okay, so don't discuss anything that um uh is anticipated to come before you.

Obviously, it can be kind of a little bit difficult to know what might come before you or what might not come before you.

So in and out, they're on the side of caution.

You can email a quorum transitory information.

So for example, I'm running late, or uh I can't find the I can't find the room where are we meeting tonight, or um, did the location change?

Things like that are generally okay.

Um but don't email a quorum about city business.

So uh you get the agenda.

Um don't email more than four of your other colleagues um about what you're thinking on a particular item.

I would suggest that you really not email each other at all, quite frankly, um, but certainly don't email uh a quorum about city business, and then you can't have a string meeting.

So for example, um we'll just if the chair were to reach out to each one of you individually via email, even though there's not a quorum of you on a single email thread, because everybody on the commission is being included into the conversation.

That could be considered to be a string meeting, and that would be a violation of the open meeting law.

Let's transition quickly into Robert's rules of procedure.

So uh there's no need, uh, these are developed for large body assemblies.

Please know that um all of the boards and commissions in the city of Rochester typically use Robert's rules of procedure.

Um it's not necessary that you memorize every detail.

I know in your packet there was a um sort of a 101 chart that was included.

Um I think that's really a good simplified version of how Robert's rules works.

And and I would encourage you to just take a look at that.

And if you have any questions, um feel free to reach out.

I find this chart on the left here.

I'm sorry, it's a little bit small, but I I find it to be useful.

We sort of start at the top of the chart and we'll just quickly go through this.

So number one is that uh a member of the PBEC would make a clearly worded motion.

So I make a motion to approve XYZ, or I make a motion to deny XYZ.

Step number two is for somebody to somebody different to second that.

Okay.

So I the person would say, I second that motion or second.

Okay.

If a motion does not get a second, it then fails.

And we would look be looking for somebody else to make an alternate motion.

Okay.

So a motion must be made and get a second in order for the discussion to ensue.

Number three says that the chairman or the chairwoman restates the motion just to provide clarity as to what the motion is on the table.

And then number four is the discussionslash debate occurs.

A lot of times what I see is staff will make their presentation, and then we have this robust discussion, and then at the very end we make a motion, a second, and then a vote.

But really what Robert's rules contemplates, and there's not really anything wrong with kind of having the discussion, but again, just trying to pull us back to proper procedure and talk about what Robert's rules says.

That would contemplate a motion, followed by a second, and then the debate occurs.

And keep in mind, just because you you second something doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with what the motion is.

You're just second seconding it to continue the discussion.

Like let's discuss what the motion is.

Let's discuss the merits of this particular item.

So I wanted to make that point.

Number four, then the discussion occurs, and then we keep going down where we'll call for uh a vote, and then all those in favor say aye, all opposed say no, and then um the the chairman would um note the result of the vote, like we talked about previously.

This is a Robert's rules cheat sheet.

Um again, uh you this is this one looks a little different than the one that you have in your packet.

But again, if you just Google Robert's rules cheat sheet or one, you know, 101, something like that, you're gonna get hundreds of different results.

Um a couple of things I just wanted to point out here.

Um I highlighted in yellow.

Um the first is to uh introduce business, which is just your main motion, um, which is uh it needs a second, it is debatable, it's amendable, and it requires a majority vote.

Sometimes when a motion is made, um there's a second, and then the sort of the discussion ensues, and based upon that discussion, it appears that maybe some type of an amendment um would be best to kind of maybe align everybody, or we want to change the motion slightly.

Um so again, um that would require uh uh a majority vote of the um of the commission, and then you would be basically discussing them the original motion as amended, and the vote, the final vote would be on the motion as amended.

Um maybe the last thing I would point out here is this bottom one, consider something out of its scheduled order.

I did look at your last meeting, and I think the commission at the last meeting voted to extend the open comment period.

It appears that there's quite a few people that wanted to speak and maybe had exceeded the time limit you all would typically allow for an open comment period.

Um so uh basically the point here is is that it's okay to make a motion to extend the open comment period by 15 minutes, for example.

Um I would suggest that you add some type of qualifying language, such as for 15 minutes, or to allow the rest of the speakers that have signed up to speak, or to allow three more speakers to speak, something to that effect so that it's not like an infinite extension, and then you know it's sort of a free-for-all at that point.

Okay.

Um the main point there is it requires a two-thirds vote, which is a supermajority.

So in order to suspend the rules, it requires a two-thirds vote, not your standard majority, but rather a supermajority.

Okay, um, we're getting towards the end here.

Um, this is just a slide about conflicts of interest.

Um, and typically conflicts of interest deal with some type of a financial interest that you may have individually or personally in regards to an item that might come before you.

Um what this final point here says that basically um if you feel like there is a conflict of interest, I would suggest that you reach out to Amy and and just make her known of that, you know, make her aware maybe there's a discussion that needs to occur there.

And if and if Amy feels like, well, maybe she should loop in the city attorney's office, she would be a good contact person for you to kind of start that discussion as to, and then um, you know, ultimately the decision is yours.

Um, but I think if if when in doubt, uh make the potential conflict known, and maybe after discussion, it's found that yeah, there really isn't a conflict here, but thanks for bringing it up.

Uh again, airing on the side of caution.

Uh city ordinance sort of lists nine different um conflict of interest.

I'm not gonna go through all these, but just know that it a lot of times it has to do with some type of a financial interest that you may have in a particular item.

A quick note on abstention, oops, abstentions and recusals.

Um an abstention is choosing not to vote either for or against a motion.

It's really a way for you not to take a position for whatever reason.

Okay.

Um, but I would I do want to emphasize that um by virtue of you being on the commission, you have a right to vote on every agenda item.

Okay.

Uh so for example, where I see this come into play a lot of times is if it is if somebody wasn't at the last meeting, okay?

Somebody wasn't at the last meeting, and one thing you always do in every agenda is to approve the minutes from the last agenda.

So um some people choose to abstain because they weren't at that last meeting and they didn't have an opportunity to go back and review the meeting, so that because they really don't know if the minutes are accurate or not because they weren't there.

Okay.

Um, so some people choose to abstain.

However, what I'm telling you is even if you didn't have a chance to go back and look at the minutes, even if you didn't have a chance to look at the um at the recording, you still have a right to vote.

However, um I would encourage you um to take the time to go back, listen to the recording, um, just because a lot of times topics could build on on themselves where some things that's discussed at the next last meeting could carry over into the current meeting.

So I think by virtue of the fact that you have been appointed to this position, I think it would be in your best interest to go back and just make sure that you are reviewing that video ahead of time, and that way you can confidently vote on everything that comes before you.

Finally, a recusal is uh is a removal because of conflict of interest.

We talked about that.

Um just briefly on the proper procedure.

If you do come to the conclusion that you want to recuse yourself from a particular agenda item, you don't need to recuse yourself from the entire meeting.

Just recuse yourself from a particular agenda item.

And I know staff would probably like to know that ahead of time.

Just a quick say, uh, I intend to recuse myself on 7B.

Also let the chair know so that way when you get to item 7B, uh, the commissioner can say, you know, I'm recusing myself, and then we would actually ask that you leave your seat and then just step outside of the room.

Uh that way you don't have any influence on the discussion or the vote that's being taken place.

Once the agenda item is done, um, staff or that somebody will come out and get you and then bring you back into the room.

So sometimes, you know, people just sitting, you know, in the corner or something like that really isn't ideal because as the discussion evolves, you might be making facial expressions or gestures or something that could give some inclination as to what you feel about a topic or that agenda item.

And really the idea item behind a recusal is you're just you're not partaking at all whatsoever.

So that's why we ask that you leave the room.

Um, this is just a reminder that um uh because you've sought appointment, you're you're you fill out an ethics um disclosure form, uh, which basically lists any interest in and businesses that you have in Rochester, etc.

We're not gonna go through all of this, but um just a friendly reminder there.

Um sometimes uh boarding commission members ask our office, well, what information about me is public information by virtue of the fact that I'm on a public city commission.

And these are the different things, uh, one, two, three, four, and five that would be available to you.

Please know that the city doesn't readily post your information online, okay.

But just know that if somebody did make a data request with the city, these are things that would be um fair game pursuant to that um Minnesota statute 13.601.

This is what the information looks like uh for the PEC.

So this is the information that's readily available on the website, the city's website.

And I just want to point out that if you were to click on the little email um icon over here, it doesn't pull up your personal email address, it comes up with something that looks like this.

So the requester would put their name there, their email address, they would type their message and then they would hit send so they actually don't even get your personal email address as part of this process.

However, that being said, um, make sure that the city has the correct email address for you.

Sometimes when people apply to be on a particular board commission, they give one email address, and then once they've been appointed, either that's an address they don't monitor that often, or sometimes commission or board and commission members make a separate email address that they use just in their individual capacity.

That way, if there is a data request, it makes it a little bit easier to go back and just know that I've only done I've only communicated through this separate email account that I've created for my you know for my position on the Bay.

Just a note on that that Dana's not no longer part of the commission.

So we have to get her removed.

And I know that was quick, um, but that's all I have.

Is there any questions?

Obviously, Amy can be a good resource for you.

Uh otherwise, the city attorney's office, our contact information is online.

And if you have questions, uh, I would suggest that you go through Amy first.

Um, but if anything arises, um, feel free to reach out.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Are we ready?

Yeah.

You've all got that.

Let's try to maybe can put it into practice.

Um, I'm Sam Benzina, City Traffic Engineer, Public Works.

Um, been with the city about nine years now, almost nine years, um, which is actually uh relevant to the presentation.

Get into that.

But uh yeah, here to talk about Elden Hills Drive today.

Um just a little bit of background, uh, all the way back in 2020.

Rochester, we adopted our actually through RoCog adopted our Rochester Area Bicycle Master Plan.

We actually had our joint city county planning department back then that came up with that.

Elden Hills Drive was identified as a major city bikeway.

Um as far as what that means for Elden Hills, um doesn't totally matter because that document's been replaced.

Um, but it was identified, you know, for future bicycle facilities.

Um 2016 came along and we needed to mill and overlay the street.

So we submitted to city council uh epoxy payment marking plan, so durable payment markings.

And so the plan was to mill an overlay and then restripe the road because we were working with a blank canvas.

Um council denied that.

They actually pulled it from the payment marking package uh and denied anything on Ellen Hills.

Um and then, yeah, we didn't do any payment maintenance.

So in 2019, there was a council initiated action.

Um, city council said we want to move forward with that recommendation from 2016.

Now I say that how long I've been working here is relevant because I started working here in 2017.

And I didn't actually know what they recommended in 2016.

So I looked that up.

It's like this isn't really a great idea.

And I recommended to city council, hey, let's study this.

Let's actually uh get a plan and uh you know have it have a data-based approach where we're actually setting it and getting public feedback and things like that.

Um that went to a study session and there wasn't actually any action taken.

They there was no action.

So again, payment maintenance was deferred.

One thing that we did do actually was um program the project in our capital improvement program for improvements to the intersection at West River Parkway.

So it's not like we did absolutely nothing.

We we did program a project which is budgeted for 2027 as well.

So we're kind of lumping that all in with the pavement preservation as well.

Uh 2022, uh, we adopted our active transportation plan, and Elton Hills was identified as a top 10 all ages and abilities network near-term gap.

So in that plan, they identified 10 priorities for near-term gaps.

Uh and then in 2027, again, we're planning a mill and overlay.

We're doing a traffic study again.

We're updating the 2019 traffic study.

Um, payment maintenance has been deferred for a long time, and we really need to do a mill and overlay project now.

Um existing conditions, it's four-lane undivided with parking on both sides.

Um, if you get down the east end, like near the recenter and over the bridge over the Zumborough River, there's no parking.

So it's not like this exactly the whole way, but generally speaking, um, this is what we're working with out there.

In 2016, what they recommended was just remove the parking and stripe it with bike lanes on the sides.

Um there wasn't any, like I said, no public engagement, no studies.

They were just gonna do this uh and just didn't go over very well.

So 2019, we did the study, we've had a neighborhood meeting, and this is what we recommended to city council, or what we presented at the study session.

A three-lane motor vehicle section with a center two-way left turn lane, one driving lane in each direction, on street bike lanes on both sides, parking on the south side of the street.

And then again, I mentioned we we also programmed in that uh intersection improvement project at West River Parkway.

So as we are opening up this can again, uh we have some city goals, primarily to improve the condition of the asphalt.

Because again, that's what's really driving this.

It's a it's a mill and overlay project.

Uh it's not a full reconstruct, just milling off a couple inches of asphalt and replacing it, um, working with our blank canvas again to restripe the road.

Um we want to increase safety for all users, that's always a top priority, reduce the crashes, crash severity, and reduce speeding, and reducing speeding is a primary way we can reduce crash crash severity.

Uh we want to meet our city's traffic service standards, so that includes things like delay and queuing, right?

We don't want to cause a bunch of traffic jams by removing traffic planes.

And then alignment with our other city and regional planning documents.

And I highlight a couple of those.

Um just a couple weeks ago, Roco uh adopted our safe streets for all safety action plan.

Elm Hills was identified as the number three on the list of tier one priority corridors in Rochester.

Um, what what the plan says is that uh the road cities within the Rocock planning area should review the prioritized locations and program potential opportunities for uh incorporating program projects.

Um the placement as a tier one priority corridor is based on three categories.

So it's based on the high-end network, so that's historical crash data, how many crashes are actually happening out there.

There are a lot of crashes happening out there.

The crash profiles, which is risk factors present.

So even on other corridors where there aren't crashes happening, there might be elements in the design of those streets where severe crashes happen regularly.

And Ellen Hells has those as well.

And then high concentration public comments, right?

Through the uh Safe Streets for All Safety Action Plan document.

Um they did do public engagement comment mapping and collected a lot of public feedback on that.

Uh one I like.

Uh, and this is what the Active Transportation Plan says about it.

I'm not gonna read it to you, it's in your packet and they're on the screen for you.

But uh we want to design for all ages and abilities, and typically that doesn't mean you're two-year-olds, you're gonna be biking on the street.

You know, most of the time, what we're talking about is like an eight to eighty.

So an eight-year-old up to an 80-year-old would feel comfortable using this facility.

Uh, another planning documents that we're gonna be reviewing.

Um, Rokog's 2050 metropolitan transportation plan.

Uh, and these are all things that have been updated since uh 2019, since the last time we presented to city council.

We've updated our city's comprehensive plan.

Uh, we've identified transit-oriented development along Broadway, things like that.

Um, Rochester Public Schools has adopted their elementary safe routes or school plan.

There are two public elementary schools and a private elementary school on the north side of the corridor.

Um, the city of Rochester does have a complete streets policy, um, which means we're gonna be considering all modes.

That doesn't mean we have to accommodate them all on every road, but we do have to consider them.

And our ADA transition plan is in the process of being updated as well.

And um, kind of on the side uh in kind of in coordination with this project, but we are looking at a lot of the pedestrian ramps along the corridor, programming a project to uh approve those as well and bring them up to ADA compliance.

So here's where we kind of opened up for discussion.

I planted some seed questions in here to get get some conversation going.

Uh, but yeah, I want to hear from you all what design elements are important to include as we consider a design here and as we continue engaging the community.

Um, you know, we do plan uh we're gonna have a neighborhood meeting, we'll have a study session.

Uh I plan on talking with the school district and potentially you know, parents at the schools about what's important to them.

Does the committee support the overall project goals?

And you know, I didn't go through all the cross sections that I included in your packet, but there's quite a few a number of them, as well as a decision matrix that goes with like the pros and cons of each of those.

But they all have different elements in there that can spur ideas.

Tell me what you like and don't like.

And ideally, if you'd like to support at least one, or if there's several top ones that you want us to consider, please let me know.

That'll turn it over to you all.

Um well, I mentioned you know, our traffic service standards, so we will be reviewing those.

So again, delay um queuing.

Uh we're reviewing the crash history and looking for there's a specific type of crash that we're seeing out there, and how can we mitigate that?

Um, we're looking at travel times.

Um we did collect speed data to see you know how fast are people actually going out there.

Um, which I can tell you is is pretty fast.

We do have some radar speed feedback signs out there.

It is still 25 miles per hour, correct?

I'm not calling.

Well, Nell's is third miles.

So it's 30.

Yeah.

And it is a major arterial, so per our speed limit policy, we would still design for 30 miles per hour.

Okay.

Will there be any additional considerations for the traffic lights going in or is what is there and nothing?

I'm just I don't know uh potentially.

Um yeah, so uh included in in the study is um intersection control evaluations at actually three intersections.

Um West River Parkway, that's where we have the the major project planned.

Um the other ones, so we are looking at near the the Lutheran school, and um kind of a combination of 14th and 15th Avenues by Elden Hills Elementary.

Um there's an existing very old traffic signal at 14th Avenue.

So we're kind of looking at could it better serve the neighborhood or the school and/or the school if it was moved over to 15th Avenue.

Um those are the three that were primarily looking at.

If we are getting into installing new traffic signals, they might come as a later project and not necessarily part of the mill and overlay project.

But I assume there'd be more cost incurred in that as well.

Then that funding would have to come from some other fund.

It would, yeah, it would probably be a future CIP project, potentially state aid dollars would would be my guess.

So there's potential that it would could be or would be striped with anticipation of a traffic signal being put in at some point.

Could that cause confusion if it were striped in one way and then delayed of having a traffic signal put in?

Um no, I don't I don't think it would.

I think we're pretty sure we would set it up appropriately for the interim.

Okay.

So we're not gonna go over each slide on the alternatives.

I wasn't planning to I can bring them up.

No, I just I didn't want to talk about a specific one.

I did um one thing I had some questions on was the uh looking at like the medians and the bump out on some of those, and I didn't quite understand what we're meeting because the median seem so difficult with how many driveways there are everywhere, you know.

So are you okay with making some owners out some telling some homeowners hey you can't pick a left out of your driveway anymore?

Uh if we were to do medians, it would probably be or or curb extensions, it would probably just be in like select locations near near intersections.

Um, I mentioned 14th Avenue near Narrow and Hills Elementary School is a T intersection.

So one of those legs does not meet a left turn lane because there's nowhere to turn to.

So that could be a place where we install a short piece of median.

But anybody on a driveway though, if they they're now forced to coming out to take a right.

And if they wanted to take a left, they either gotta take a big long route or they drive through neighborhoods.

We would probably try to avoid that.

One of the goals is to improve the safety and you create enough people who now every time they want to go left or every time they have to come in from the R direction are now doing the loop d loop through neighborhood streets that currently have very little traffic.

Yeah, we we certainly don't want to solve one problem by creating a new one.

So the parking, I know there are a couple options for parking was taken away.

I mean, how likely is that?

Or I don't, I don't think they're going out in you know in that neighborhood, but I know there's a lot on street parking.

So just kind of can you talk about some like the thought behind some of those considerations?

Yeah, I mean if you go out there, it's it's not heavily utilized, but I've seen.

Um I don't think we have any options that completely remove the on-street parking.

Okay, yeah, orbito.

Does there might be one with curb extensions that where it's showing like near an intersection?

So we would we'd bump it out at the intersection, but most of the corridor would still have the on-street parking.

Um a few of them remove parking from one side and not the other.

So we can consolidate the few people that are parking out there on one side of the street.

And you know, if we make it a more comfortable street, it might invite more people to feel comfortable putting their cars out there.

Um the cars being parked there is a traffic calming tool.

It does help slow cars down.

Um the other benefit of having it on one side is that Elden Hills wouldn't have to follow the alternate side parking.

Right now they're still supposed to be moving their car to the other side of the street every other day.

You also remove have as many potential driveway intersections by having on one side or the other.

If you have a two-way on one side.

So if you have a two-way versus one way on each side for traveling.

We have a one-way on each side for traveling, every driveway on both sides, the potential point of conflict.

Um something that's not gonna be appreciated by people who have to navigate that every time they go somewhere if they drive.

So you know, just moving it to one side is half that amount.

And then is there a side when you'd have those slides that show a one-way or a two-lane bike track?

Is there a side of a street those would be on?

Um, if we were to do a two-way cycle track on one side, it would probably be the north side, and we probably try to keep the parking on the south side.

It's like you mentioned there there's fewer driveways on the north side, and there would be fewer conflict points.

Um so one of your uh discussion questions was um would we like to support one of the um segment options?

So I would like to make a motion that um the committee support for segment one.

So we're looking at on the slides, um East Frontage Road to West River Parkway.

Alternate 6B, a two-way bicycle facility median and parking on one side um with the parking being on the south side, um, and the two-way bikeway then being on the north side with all of the um school access there.

There's a motion on the table.

Is there a second second vote?

Okay, thoughts and discussions.

I don't know if you want to bring that slide up.

I think it's alternative six B.

And was that for just a portion of the board on?

Yeah, but uh for just um segment one, East Fron Edge Road, West River Parkway.

And on the agenda packet, I'm looking at the enthusiasm 41 and 42 for the overview.

So yeah, segment one, east frontier road to west river parkway, so it's the western portion of the corridor.

So it's 6B.

Do the check on that.

Were you saying earlier that where that starts going past houses and driveways that would not be the right medium?

Um, I think this one is saying median is more of the uh boulevard green space between the cycle track and the the curb.

So it's not a center medium track.

I would say this is congruent with a lot of the other recommendations of having a two-lane cycle track, which is easier to plow in the winter, right?

Um it's easier just in general for safety-wise, especially if parking is on the other side of a street.

Um so those are I think two positives that this plan has available for us.

I would make a friendly amendment to extend the cross section of 6B for the length of the corridor.

So there is a motion to extend 6B across the entire corridor.

Is there a second?

What does that mean?

We I just want to make sure I know what's entirely there in the Broadway.

Yes, okay.

So just all the way to Broadway then.

Is there a second for discussion?

Okay.

Uh I think I I think having it go all the way to Broadway gives, especially on the north side, gives a lot of people access to 125 wide.

Um talking to somebody today who uh commutes their own bike and make it better for them also.

Just a lot of people there that a lot of people have met in the past who have bike rides starting there with type of leg ride for a while.

And um, you know, so it's safer for more people to do that, uh as a lot of value to and it also connects it in more to the rest of the exhibiting network.

Um or question is whether or not there is the space.

Um my understanding rather than looking at the packet, is that segment two uh the space that we're working with isn't as wide as segment one.

So there's a limited option for what can be provided there is that way this um option isn't included for segment two.

My misunderstanding that for segment two, um there is no on-street parking currently, so if this were to extend through there, we probably would lose the on-street parking as well.

I don't know.

There's not currently on-street parking.

Right.

So how would you lose it if there currently isn't it from if imagine this cross section, but without the parking?

That's what segment two would look like.

Okay, so you wouldn't wouldn't have four lanes there anymore without right here.

I I guess I can my question for you is how is the bridge um if we were to extend this all the way through, how is the bridge then part of the extension that goes all the way to Broadway?

Um the bridge, I mean there is four lanes over the bridge right now.

Um I mean, this would certainly fit on the bridge, okay.

What does that traffic light there's the you know the speed of traffic and the number of lanes is the what controls the throughput at a traffic light?

As from a traffic point of view, what concerns would you have if you are you know are you looking at making it two?

I guess what concerns do you have at traffic lights with this?

Um we may need to move a couple heads around.

Um but you know, the traffic studies in progress right now.

So I will say, you know, we did show in 2019 that a three-lane section would work.

Um since then, one of the things I just changed is that we've had a global pandemic, a lot of people working from home.

Traffic volumes have actually gone down.

So I'm not super concerned about being able to meet our traffic service standards in in 2027.

Okay, I I just I see that intersection at West River Parkway and they'll drive twice a day.

Um, and it can get kind of backed up, uh especially heading west traffic there.

So that's what two lanes and so here.

I guess not.

One just other question, I think it's from a feasibility constructability perspective.

Is there so it sounds like there's not budget to do this cross-section today?

So also in the packet is a decision matrix that does identify that you know the major con of this option is cost.

Um if you were looking to support something a little bit more palatable in the immediate scenario, um this would fit within the existing pavement.

Uh it is on street, it's not behind the curb and protected, uh, but option six A.

Um it's something that you know we could do this in the interim, and then six B is something that we could do with a full reconstruct in the future.

So you couldn't do six B on even any section of it right now.

I mean, it's not that we couldn't.

Okay, it's that I'm not sure that we have the the budget for it right now.

So if this was the direction that we all decided we wanted to go, um we'd have to find the money for that somehow.

Do we know the cost of what this would be?

Do we know the cost of A versus B?

Not fully yet, no.

Okay.

Is it that a decision that city council goes on?

Or ultimately, yeah.

And then what they'll have to represent and third off.

Um maybe just to throw a I don't know, a motion that's hopefully encompassing here, but a motion to recommend um six B for the extent of the Elton Hills corridor with 6A as an interim solution if necessary due to budgetary constraints.

So is that an amendment to the original motion?

Yeah, sorry, I guess we're not making new motions now.

Yeah, so it'd be an amendment to your original motion.

Okay, yes.

So the amendment to the original motion is to support 6B for the extension of the project with 6A being an alternative if budget does not come into fully fund 6B.

Yes, is that correct?

Okay.

So motion on the floor.

And it'll just declare this to the entire both segments.

Yes, second.

All right.

Any discussion more on this?

I would just say are you better off just proposing six B and then if they have to somebody else along the line has to cut it?

No, do you give them that?

You give them that out right away.

Yeah.

I can appreciate that.

I guess it's more there was quite a number of different solutions or different corridor layouts presented.

And if anything, it's like, yeah, I'd like to go for the whole thing if if possible, but if budget doesn't allow, I think being clear about which the other one is that budget may support today, I think might be helpful, but open to other perspectives.

I feel like we could be like this is our top, here's our second, you know, if we have a third, we could put that in.

Sam, can you comment on the um block B I guess the block between traffic and the the cycle track?

Is that is that just striped in in 6A?

Or is there some kind of you know, bollards or other items that we can put up there in non-seasonal in non-winter seasons?

Yeah, so what we're showing here is is the striping.

Um, you know, we could do the delineators like you've seen downtown.

I'll say one thing that's good about this option, you know, you got the two the two five-foot bike lanes, the two-foot gutter, plus a six-foot buffer.

Typically, what we look for when we're driving a plow down the road, we need about 14 feet.

Uh so this offers a lot more than that.

So we would be able to actually just drive a full plow down this and still have some sort of physical barrier in there that we would not have to remove every winter.

That is definitely something we cannot do with you know one bike lane in each direction on both sides of the street.

But this would allow us for the space to still do that.

Sorry, if you have the raised median, does that mean you do that change flower 15 something different?

Like with 6B?

With 6B, sorry, yeah.

Um, not necessarily.

I mean, we could still drive, you know, with a with a 10-foot cycle track, we could still drive like a one-ton pickup down the middle of that.

All right, anything else?

All right.

Uh call the role.

All in favor say aye.

I'll say nay.

All right, motion passes eight to zero.

Thanks, Sam.

Yeah, thank you.

Is that the only thing we're gonna vote on with this?

middle of that all right anything else all right uh call the role all in favor say aye all vote say nay all right motion passes eight to zero thanks Sam yeah thank you is that the only thing we're gonna vote on with this uh I believe several questions there's two actions um also the other requested action was endorsing the overall project goal goals of the pavement conditions and increase safety for all of the users on the corridor so if you guys took action on selecting the preferred last section was the second requested action if there's a motion on the first is it something for change all right so the the action so I can read it again uh the requested action is to uh endorse the overall project goals for the improved payment conditions and increase increased safety for all users along the corridor is there a motion so second second all in favor say aye and discussion I think we can we can stop yeah okay I guess I I my my question was that I didn't see anything in there about neighborhood connectivity or um because right now that uh it's it's a very difficult for to cross on bike on foot it's almost scary um and that has created a neighborhood separation there you know kids aren't gonna cross to go to the park for trick retreating to go see christmas lights uh going to school they're more likely to be in a car to drive and it's it's just it's created a neighborhood separation and I didn't know if those were our goals or um a goal that was something to look towards increasing the neighborhood connectivity and you're you're talking crossing at West Circle cross no like crossing anywhere on Elton Hills between the two stoplights you know and even at the stoplights you're crossing you know uh 80 feet or 80 what 80 feet whatever or 72 feet of asphalt you know and in my experience crossing there I like on foot I won't do it unless it's like nobody um and on bike is dull gotta really feel like you got your feet set and your everything goes so you can spread across I think I think one of the virtues of the plan that we approve which is you know six B or six A dropping down from four lanes to three lanes slows traffic and it also creates more of a buffer so it's actually less crossing time on foot.

So I think that does kind of lend itself towards the the first goal um without without exterior solutions I'm not sure there is a good well I would just say should a goal be in you know do we support the goal should a goal be should we have the goal of increasing neighborhood connectivity I would support that okay uh amendment to add increasing neighborhood connectivity to the goals for the project okay this could just read like the explicit I don't want to put the more south on it from Hills as far as like any neighbor connected I agree with that yeah would you like to make an I I meant to make it uh what's the girlfriend say uh increased safety on crossing on hills north south uh in the furtherance of neighborhood connectivity okay all right is there I guess any more discussion on that anything more that we want to well I I will add with with this section you know uh if we do get the the speed reduction I would say at lower speeds you're you're actually less likely to get in a crash anyway um you have more reaction time for your driving slower it doesn't take as long to stop um and if there is a crash it'll be less severe than at a higher speed so but also with this you know you're crossing one lane at a time you have the ability to you know cross you can wait in the middle and then watch for the next direction and you can actually the six feet is actually wide enough for a pedestrian refuge you can actually wait there before you even cross the cycle track so I do think that from a pedestrian crossing perspective this is also much better I think yeah I think we agree with that just to make it explicit goal I appreciate the um amendment make that whole uh more specific and we are uh in our communication council and the project plan so and I guess a process question is do we need to vote on each of those now or is it as a collective okay so we need to I would just say for simplicity reason we could I think we know what you added for the uh amendment and then um we get a mo vote on the amendment and then yeah the old yeah so yeah the overall yeah the vote on the amendment as a whole and then vote on the original motion as amended okay so the vote on the table now is the amendment to the uh original motion and all in favor say aye all in close say nay all right amendment passes eight zero and now we're back to the original amendment and the original

Okay, so we need to I would just say for simplicity reason we could I think we know what you added for the uh amendment and then um we could have vote on the amendment and then the old yeah yeah the overall yeah the vote on the amendment as a whole and then vote on the original motion as amended.

Okay.

So the vote on the table now is the amendment to the uh uh original motion.

All in favor say aye.

I'll all post saying eight.

Right.

And it passes eight zero, and now we're back to the original amendment, and the original amendment is to support uh action number one uh from the packet today.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All O say name.

Motion passes eight to zero.

All right, moving on to the second item on the agenda today, which is the intersection improvements on 7th Street Northeast and 11th Avenue Northeast.

Yeah, so I'm presenting on this one as well.

Uh so little bit background.

This is the 50-year-old traffic signal now.

Um it is reaching the end of its useful life, and we either need to replace it or do something different there.

Um and then additionally, there's a sewer project coming up, um, the Silver Lake Siphon that is going to go through this intersection and our traffic signal is actually in the way, so they're going to remove it anyway.

So we really need to do something different there.

There's a second.

Sure.

I am like having so much trouble picturing this intersection.

I think I'm orient the wherewith apps from some other landmarks.

Um if you go from uh cruise lumber over to Silver Lake Park.

Oh god, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So just east of east of the giant playground over there in the new pool.

Um so we we studied the intersection, did an intersection control evaluation, recommended a mini roundabout.

Um so what I want to talk to you all about is the active transportation plan does identify 11th Avenue Northeast uh uh for all ages and abilities, triple A facilities, and 7th Street Northeast, west of the intersection uh for triple A facilities as well.

To the east, it kind of dives off into the residential neighborhood, and that's not part of the active transportation plan, but so this is a a draft layout of the mini roundabout.

And so similar to the last discussion, um you know, we're not going any further west on 7th Street.

Um but what this layout would allow uh is for you know what we're showing here is like a 10-foot shared use path on the west side of 11th Avenue that could eventually be extended to the north and to the south, even uh with a future reconstruct.

Um and then it leaves a lot of empty space on 7th Street.

There's a lot of there's just a lot of space on 7th Street.

Um so we could do a lot on the north side of 7th Street there, or or the south side really, but um I guess I just want to talk with you all about you know how would you all envision the triple A facility on these quarters in the future?

Um what we're showing here is you know, slip ramps from the on-street bike lanes on 7th Street to get up and then circulate around the roundabout.

If you choose to go through it that way on a bike, you can also just merge in with traffic and use the roundabout that way as well.

But um, this one's a pretty open discussion.

Um I'll just kind of open it up for questions and thoughts.

So it looks like the several different ways sidewalk traffic and then get onto a bike line.

Or yes, well, and just so if I start off on the uh start off in the north west uh intersection there, it shows like you got uh bike weight coming down and then it looks like you have an angled sidewalk at the end of it.

Somebody wanted to yeah.

So if you're if you're biking south on 11th Avenue, and you don't want to circulate in the roundabout, there would be a slip ramp to get you up onto the wider shared use path.

And then once you go around, you can another slip ramp to get you back into the on-street bike lane to continue west on 7th Street.

Yeah.

And that looks really ideal, but then I don't quite see anything like that anywhere else.

If you're if you're biking east, there's a short little slip ramp there too.

We're trying to kind of weave through the that red dot is a power pole.

I'd rather not relocate that if we don't have to.

There's a pretty big utility line going through there.

But then it back onto so even first of all, you just got like a sh uh right angle, right angle kind of thing there instead of like having a little more concrete.

Um if you wanted to go south, you know, if you're heading west and you wanted to go south.

And so you come in there, okay.

The slip off looks good.

And you got really short, sharp turn and then turn again, and then getting onto the street if you're gonna take the street is uh just a dumpy off at 90 degrees.

I mean, yeah, that that is what we're showing right now.

Um we do have a future uh reconstruction project from 11th Avenue to go to continue south from this intersection.

Um that's not saying we can't do anything different than what's shown here in the interim, but uh there would be future plans to continue some sort of tying into an actual bike facility in the future potentially.

Um is that slavery?

231.

Okay.

One of those one.

Yeah, okay.

So this would be pretty consistent for four to five years.

Yeah.

To me on this, like if it's something that's cheap to do, like taking this and then getting either a bike, some sort of even trail that connects it to the trail network by the river and my silver lake would be good.

Because if it's just isolated bike facility here, I feel like this won't be used very much, but people are able to somehow get to uh to that, they can start commuting downtown along that or just through recreational.

And it was room on seven, then like kind of doing that as relatively cheap, I think.

At the same time is this really good.

I've peddled through this intersection alone and with the whole group, like all different sizes of groups, and I think just the sheer size of the intersection and like kind of the lack of of real clarity in it is a bit disconcerting, and it's been just awkward interactions with car drivers there.

So I would be in favor of this.

I think as as a sort of as a whole, but I would say that um, yeah, maybe more consideration can be made to the slip lanes, angles, making sure that it's as smooth and reasonable as it can be for both pedestrians, people rolling um through this area.

And I do think it's something that like while it may not connect today, it does create a great link in the future to make those connections.

Yeah, I just see a lot of projects where there's missing details on how people can go between the two, and that takes into reality how people bike, you know, kids don't want to bike through a roundabout, they'd much rather you know have an easy way if they were on the road in the lane, you know, it'd be really nice from every direction if they could say, hey, I just have to slip off, I don't have to come to a stop, take a 90-degree turn to get off.

You know, just slipping on and off and uh just have having some curb cuts and a little more concrete, I think make a lot a difference.

Now are you thinking specifically the west side of 11th on the south side?

Oh, I'd or something.

I'd probably make it on three uh well, I like I said I like the northwest corner, and I'd probably add something different on all three other corners.

I mean, I I'm I'm kind of with you.

You can at least on the south side, like that's those 45 degree turns are uh or nine degree turns, rather than 90 degree turns are like tight, right?

If you're if you're coming in and you're you know, I'm I'm obviously you're not traveling at fast speed, but you know, uh there are some some areas around Rochester too where you got it, gotta be really good.

You gotta stay on that path, because if you're not, you're gonna dump, you know, or especially with little kids and that kind of thing, right?

So um and do we know how wide those those lanes are the inside the slips the as you as you come in and you turn right and then you turn right again.

Seeing this one.

So the uh one to the on the west side.

Yeah, that one's close.

Is it diameter?

That's like yeah, I think it's a like a five foot sidewalk.

Okay, so if you come in off the coming off the bike lane there, yeah, and then take a right and then you turn back in the water.

It's and it's not quite as tight in there, I think that'd be more helpful.

Um like not quite as sharp, it's not quite as narrow, not quite as sharp.

I I think the narrowness can be a problem too because if you have a high pedestrian traffic, you automatically create a conflict route.

Well we'll sidewalks in general, just to not the shared area.

Five feet five feet.

I mean but you know, but I'm sure you all know this part of town, you know, it's not illegal to bike on the sidewalk.

And there's not a lot of pedestrian traffic around there.

I I mean three links park is there.

So I mean there are you know, and and people going towards Silver Lake in general, but I don't I don't recall seeing you know masses of people necessarily.

But with the pool, right?

You are gonna have increased traffic in that way as well, especially if anybody's coming over from you know the um Cory Hill neighborhood and coming south from the northern heights and things like coming from the other side of 7th or 1.

And the other side seven too, yeah, the hall the four directions.

Yeah, is there any consideration to put it make a trail on the south side of seventh there, like by three links, like make that widen that up?

So at least for that section or so we're just got a narrow sidewalk.

Um like continuing west.

Yes.

Well, I guess that's kind of what I wanted to talk with you all about is how how do we envision that corridor in the future?

Because we're trying to set it up, you know, for the interim, but also what it could look like in the future.

Um try to avoid a lot of rework.

So when we're planning for a triple A facility on 7th Street, like what does that look like to you all?

Is that the two-way cycle track on the north side?

Is it 12-foot shared use paths on both sides, like we're doing on Broadway right now?

I mean, I would just to throw it out for conversation.

I mean, I think either would be lovely, but really it comes down to having adequate space for all users, so that could include sidewalk for people to bike and roll um that is that is separated from vehicular traffic and is somehow protected, whether that's a curb, a median, or some other mechanism.

And I could see it, I mean I could see this being the starting point of like, hey, you've done the intersection, but I would say that um it it seems like the road definitely flares out to the west, maybe wider than is necessary and just uh the amount of vehicular traffic there.

Um it it just seems like it's still quite a wide corridor that you could use in other ways.

So like you could even take some of the width that's going out in the grass right now and bring that into a more consistent corridor, which might reduce the overall cost for the city um for utilities and maintenance on it.

But again, at a fundamental level, like the project that's presented to us this, yeah.

I'd have some like tweaks with we're talking like some minor adjustments to sidewalks and the cycling facility there, but overall I would be in support of what's presented.

So how would you when people say tweaks, what does that mean to you from you know you what you know are we talking to you right now instead of going up there and drawing on it, or is this something you know, how's that work?

Oh just your comments you're on the record, but and um I'd just like to add uh as I love the you know bike paths.

Um not generally a huge fan of share use um just from a pedestrian and like little kids um safety standpoint.

Um so I mean I ideal um is uh like protected through a bike lane and uh separate um pedestrian an extra wide sidewalk on the south side, yeah.

Yeah, on the south side running past all of the parks.

Um you have so much space.

I mean, really through that whole area through the suburbs.

Just making sure that you know kids wanting to access the swimming pool, going from the neighborhoods, they do so without having to navigate near bike traffic and car traffic as much as possible.

This is probably in the scope, and that's serves as like the beginning of like a path just along the seventh, like all the way like to Cascade Code Park, like I think being able to do that, you know, in one go on the south side of it, and actually things like pops and like you know, all of those things that just happen on the south side, I think would be great for just overall, you know, recreational travel.

Any thoughts specifically about 11th Avenue?

Because it's significantly narrower.

Um we're showing here would probably in the future translate to a five-foot sidewalk on the east side and a shared use path on the west side.

Um I don't know.

I I don't know how much more we could get in there than that.

I don't either.

I just know currently I try to get off that any part of that 11th as soon as I can about it because it's just it's narrow and it's dangerous.

I always try to cut my neighborhoods to the same thing.

Yep.

Yeah, it's like right where you want to ride.

It's right there.

Yeah.

So uh would you still avoid it if there was a shared use path on the west side?

No, that'd be that.

Okay.

I mean, I'll just for sake of everybody's time as well.

Like I'll make the motion that we sort like support the draft mini roundabout as presented.

Um just have thoughts towards maybe minor adjustments to the angles of sidewalks or um bicycle facilities to ensure that they're uh you maximize functionality.

All right.

So the motion is to uh approve the adoption of the draft mini roundabout with um minor tweaks as already put forth in conversation and so that's on the table is so all in favor say aye.

I'll post say nay.

All right, motion passes.

All right.

That is the end of our agenda for this evening.

Our our next meeting is March 9th at 6 30.

So I'm just putting that out there.

I will be gone.

I hope Matt will be figured out.

I'll say anything.

Okay.

Is there a motion to uh code me?

Yeah.

All right, all in favor say aye.

I'll put say name.

All right, motion passes.

Yeah, I appreciate it.