Rochester City Council study session, and we are in our more informal setting again, which I think uh really is conducive to a great dialogue, which we have two weeks ago.

Uh, today's agenda we have four items.

We have spongy moth management in Rochester, uh, and then we have uh supporting transformation update, a housing code update, and then we'll hear from our colleague, uh council member um Dory on any bath home program update.

So with that, I am going to turn it over to Kimberly Bramers and John Larson from uh the Department of Agriculture.

Well, thank you, uh Council members.

Uh thank you so much for having us.

My name is Kimberly Tilling Kramers.

Um I'm with the Minnesota Department of Agriculture.

I'm a manager at the department, and with me is our uh spongy moth treatment coordinator, John Larson as well.

And so we just wanted to come before you today to share a little bit about spongy moth.

Um my hope is that we'll uh share with you a little bit about what what is spongy moth, why the Department of Agriculture manages for this pest, uh the damage that it does cause to local environments, and then what our proposed management uh strategy is to assist here within the city of Rochester.

And so we'll jump into it a little bit about spongy moth.

Uh, we were just talking about this before we started uh this morning or this afternoon.

Spongy moth was originally called gypsy moth.

So if you're familiar with the term gypsy moth or have heard that uh uh pest in the past, this is the same pest, it's just got a name changed just a couple of years ago, and is now referred to as spongy moth.

It is a federally regulated plant pest.

So it's one of those pests that is uh it's an invasive insect pest that's introduced into the United States.

It's not a pest that we want here, it's not a uh uh established, at least in the Minnesota, it is established in the United States back in uh the east coast uh back in the 1800s, and so it's moving kind of westward, and we'll talk a little bit about that, but it's an incredibly defoliating uh impacting insect, and what it does is it's it eats leaves on over 300 species of trees and shrubs.

So it's a defoliator.

So it's the caterpillar stage that's the most damaging, and this is a pest that will come out, and it has and that's the invasive nature of it, is the fact that it can feed on over 300 species of trees.

So it has this really wide host range, and some of the preferred species of trees in which it prefers, particularly down in southeast Minnesota, is your oak.

Um, oak, aspen, birch, willow, basswood, those are some of the preferred, but again, 300 species of trees.

On average, annually, this pest is defoliating just under 800,000 acres annually across the United States where it is established.

And back in 2023, just a couple of years ago, the state of Wisconsin had just under 400,000 acres in their state alone, defoliated, trees defoliated from this particular pest.

Uh so it is definitely a damaging pest from both uh the environmental standpoint, but it also has some impacts to human health and impacts to potential property value due to mortality or trees dying uh due to stress.

But some of the human health concerns is the large cat the caterpillars um break off, they have these very long hairs, and those hairs can break off into the ear and float around in air.

And folks during outbreak levels, if they have sensitivities, asthmatic conditions, very sensitive people can have some um temporary responses to those.

Other folks who handle the insects can potentially have some skin irritations uh with handling the caterpillars themselves.

So uh the property value, this pest is not a tree killer.

You may be very familiar with Emerald Ash borer, which is currently established here in the Rochester area and all through Southeast Minnesota.

That is an invasive.

That one is a tree killer.

That one causes direct mortality to ash trees, where this particular invasive pest actually stresses trees, where it then leaves those trees vulnerable to other insects and diseases that then will move in, and that is what actually causes mortality.

Just similar to Emerald Ashmore, it is a regulated plant pest, so it's not only regulated in the state of Minnesota, this particular pest is regulated nationally.

It is currently only established in one-third its geographical range across the United States.

We are protecting the spread of this insect into two-thirds of United States, basically the rest of Minnesota and two-thirds of United States that does not currently have this established pest.

We partner with both the U.S.

Forest Service on this and uh USDA uh Animal Plant Health Inspection Service to kind of slow and manage this pest across the United States.

You may ask, okay, you just mentioned this pest was introduced back in the 1800s.

Why is it not currently established in the rest of the geographical range in which it can be established?

And that has to do with the biology of this insect.

The female moth cannot fly.

She has this incredibly large abdomen that's simply full of eggs.

She will lay a single egg mass, and each egg mass contain between 500 and a thousand viable little caterpillars.

So it doesn't take too many egg masses, too many females to have established populations.

It is the male moth that has flight, and this is the male that we've been serving for some time, and I'll get into a little bit of our survey program.

And that's the pest in which we we will be managing.

Spongy moth naturally only spreads about a mile to a mile and a half naturally on its own across that, and the only way this insect can naturally move is when it's in its tiny little first instart caterpillar.

It'll put a silken thread into the air and it will balloon or blow westward.

So it relies on the currents of the wind to actually move it to new treetops to get established.

However, human assistant movement has accelerated this movement of this pest across the United States, and it can anywhere be from firewood, household moves, outdoor equipment, you name it.

There's a lot of avenues in which this pest can get a free ride or hitchhike to new areas of establishment.

It is a federally regulated quarantine plant pest, so we would then uh what comes after established populations get established in the area, we do look at then regulation and quarantine to minimize the artificial movement of this pest to new areas.

Minnesota has been very fortunate to be a part of a national program where we have 10 states that are partnering together around the front, the advancing population front, and we work with U.S.

Forest Service.

So there's a program, the U.S.

Forest Service, uh slow the spread.

Slow the spread was in existence long before COVID came into play and use the term slow the spread.

We've been slowing the spread of spongy moth for over 25 years.

The program's goal is to reduce spread by over 60%.

So we're now we're talking about that natural movement and that artificial movement of 15 miles per year.

We're trying to reduce that down to six.

Over those that lifespan or that time frame of this program's existence, we've been able to reduce spread over 85% in many years throughout that project and throughout the years.

Map that you see is an area that we would had we not been managing for this pest and slowing its advancing front.

Our first treatment in the state of Minnesota happened in 1980 in St.

Paul.

Since that time, we've been trading hundreds of thousands of acres across Minnesota trying to slow the advancing front into our state.

And had we not been doing that project, you can see the red line, spongy moth would be a completely across the state of Minnesota in 2045.

But you can see that jig jet that zig kind of blue line is where we have been able to slow that spread coming into our state.

Protecting over 96 million uh hectares uh nationally across the the entire front of where it's advancing across the area.

This map depicts kind of our survey.

Um populations kind of ebb and flow along that advancing front.

They call how they how uh spongy moth populations move westward, it's like a forest fire.

You see those isolated populations, uh tiny little pockets, they will jump out in the front of that advancing front, they will coalesce and then move westward.

Our goal is to kind of suppress those populations as they're moving westward, and you can see in 2023, um, we are feeling the results of the outbreak populations that occurred in Wisconsin.

We had a significant outbreaks down in their went south central part of their state up in the Bayfield area, so there's two kind of areas where they had massive outbreaks.

Uh, those populations did crash, and that's where we're starting to see the resolution of where they've become actually established in our state to be able to manage and monitor for those.

We use the life stage of spongy moth to our advantage.

This is the most researched insect probably in the United States today.

Uh, there's a lot known about this insect.

There's a lot not known about this insect because of the invasive nature of it.

However, we use the biology, it goes through an annual life cycle per year.

So we utilize that biology in which to manage.

Uh, what we're talking about today is we're actually going to be managing or proposing to manage this pest at its own adult stage when it's in the moth form, and the only goal or only life stage uh what it's doing in that life stage is to mate.

It's not feeding.

Once it gets to the moth form, it does not feed, it simply is alive just to mate, reproduce, and then start the next generation.

And so that's the area in which we're going to target.

It's also the area in which we target for our survey.

So annually we set 20,000 early detection traps across the state of Minnesota.

We've been surveying for this pest since the 70s, uh, finding isolated populations and doing management.

In the city of Rochester, we've been probably managing annually from right in the middle of 2000s in the middle 2000s, about 2005 or so, if I look back.

If I look back, we've been managing your community and putting these placing these traps for you know over 10 years already, and we yet have not yet found isolated populations enough to come in and do management except for 2026, and we'll talk a little bit about that.

So these uh what the traps do is they give us an indication of populations, and then we do additional surveys in the area to determine if populations become established.

Our goal is to identify populations that extremely small, low population thresholds become before most citizens will even know they're in their backyard.

So our ability to detect these is incredibly sensitive.

So we're able to determine that very early on in the population threshold to be able to utilize a very unique opportunity for management, and we'll talk a little bit about that.

In 2026, we're proposing across the state of Minnesota, we have 35 areas in nine counties and 13 cities, and you can see those listed.

In the north, we're doing a lot of work around the Duluth, so the Carleton Cloquet area.

We've been working and managing pretty significantly in that area.

And then in Southeast Minnesota, uh, Fillmore, Mauer, Olmsted, Wabasha, and Winona.

I will tell you that this is the first year since uh Spongy Moth is moving westward that we've had a management in the city in the county of Olmstead itself.

Uh so this is fairly new to this area, but it is moving westward, and we continue to monitor as we move westward and trying to slow that population.

Minnesota is proposing to treat about 152,000 acres, and um we are experiencing some of the greatest uh population pressure and movement across the United States nationally along that 10 uh state front.

We're we're proposing to manage about just over 300,000, and you can see 150,000 are in the state of Minnesota alone.

So we have a lot of work here in the state in which we're working to kind of slow that advancing population.

For the city of Rochester specifically, we have three regional or three areas in which uh proposed management is looking to occur.

It's about 36,000 acres in size.

So uh you've got a couple of blocks, they're 8,000, 10,000, they're just uh in size, but there's three geographical areas.

This particular project would be proposed to be take place uh in late July or late June, excuse me, early July would be the time frame in which we are proposing to do the management.

And how we do this is by using a very unique method.

So it's called mating disruption, which is quite unique, um, and it can be only utilized in extremely low population thresholds.

So our goal is to use the synthetic pheromone, so it's the female sex attractant.

Um, it's in a synthetized man-made product called SPLAT, so specialized um specialized pheromone lure application technology, and it's G gypsy moth organic is what that GMO stands for.

It's gypsy moth organic.

They are in a name change, they're gonna soon be calling this small, of course, spongy moth organic.

Um, it is an EPA certified organic product, it's non-toxic and it's biodegradable.

Uh, then the product is basically made of food grade products and often used in makeup products.

Uh, that is the carriage in which we uh it's to adhere the product into the canopy of the trees, so then it can release the pheromone.

The pheromone is very species specific.

So this is a product that's only specific to male spongy moths.

So there will be no other impacts to other insects, mammals, birds, humans.

It's specifically it's species-specific, which is pretty cool and pretty unique.

Rarely do we get a product that is species specific to the point that will only impact the insect itself.

So we what we do is we flood this area with very small droplets.

Um, this particular vial that I'm holding is approximately about two and a half to three acres of product.

So it's an incredibly low threshold of product which will be uh dispensed through aircraft.

It is low-flying aircraft that will be dispensing.

Uh so most people don't even see the product coming out of the aircraft, it's at such a low rate.

But we flood the area, the male moths emerge and start flying around looking for females and which to mate, and they simply die before mating occurs.

So we don't even actually kill the insect, we simply flood the area enough where they can't find a female on which to mate, and they die before that occurs.

So it interrupts their mating, thus reducing populations and being able to suppress the populations as they move westward.

It is large one of the largest integrated pest management programs in our country, and we're very fortunate to be a part of that success.

Prior to operations, we do do a lot of public notification.

As you can imagine, low-flying aircraft is something that you may have concerns, and your citizens may have concerns about.

Um, that is not uncommon.

We've been working in large communities across not only the country in Cleveland, Ohio, but here in Minnesota.

We've done operations in Duluth, Chisholm, Hibbing, the Twin Cities metro area, so lots of areas that have been impacted directly from these operations.

In 2026, we have proposals in the city of Stuartville, Winona, Goodview, just to name a couple of larger communities in which will also be impacted.

But our goal is to make sure citizens, and that's why we're here today.

We want to inform you as the city council.

We were in front of your county, the county of Olmsted, the county commissioners last week, uh shared our message with them as well.

We've been in front of the city of Stuartville to share our message with them as well.

But we want to make sure you're informed about the proposal, your citizens are informed, and can get uh questions and answers.

Um we will do media blitz, whether it be in the legal um media, we'll do press releases, we'll do direct mailings to your citizens and learning them about a public meeting that's upcoming as well as then prior to operations occurring in late June.

Um there was a few more slides, but it looks like that might be the end.

But that's okay.

Uh, I can I can summarize it here uh very quickly.

The only other slides that we're gonna show is just a little bit about our public information sharing, our public meeting coming up uh that we have proposed, and John, you may know the actual date on that.

Tuesday, March 31st.

Um, we'll be holding two in Openstead County.

Um, Tuesday, March 31st, we'll be in the city of Rochester at the developmental services uh building, if that sounds right to Jeff.

Um, thank you, DSIC.

Um, and then April 1st, we'll be holding a town hall in um Stewartville as well.

So uh a few opportunities for folks to uh come and you know ask questions, express concerns.

Um then we'll also have a virtual uh public meeting option for all of Southeast Minnesota.

Uh so there's lots of opportunities for folks to come in us to for us to share our message for them.

Um, with that, I will end my presentation and we can turn it over for questions and answers.

Great, thank you.

Very informative.

I'm sure my colleagues have loads of spongy moth questions.

I'll I'll start off.

So you you mentioned this is the first time that uh Holmstead County has been uh targeted.

What happened last year that uh that uh put us on the map as far as as far as some uh mitigation and and uh and why the three uh areas in here in the city of Rochester?

Yeah, so we base it all on our strap our trap data as uh when I mentioned we trap annually, we've been trapping annually in the city of Rochester for many years, and so it's it's uh we watch populations over time, and once they get to a certain threshold where we're seeing um increase in moth capture in concentrated areas that we can start determining that populations are becoming established.

We also have a great uh model uh system as well that identifies like looking at all the data, um, how far the waste from the advancing front, how many populations are behind?

There's a lot of research behind it to identify these kind of potential problem areas, and then we do some boots on the ground surveys as well where we're trying to look for life stages.

Um again to find a life stage, you know, it is based on moth data, so we we can see an increase in population.

Like we just over time it has been increasing in this area, and it's definitely an area where it needs to get suppressed before we do.

We have other options to utilize for management.

Um, in the city of Winona last year, we were proposing a product house BTK.

So once the populations get to a certain threshold, uh we can't use mating any any longer.

Then we have to rely on other opportunities and other products to be able to utilize to suppress those populations.

So what are you saying?

We're at a low threshold.

You're extremely low threshold.

So uh should people, should the city or residents worry about their trees?

At this stage, absolutely they should not.

Um, we do not see impacts to spongy moth at this early stage.

So we're finding spongy moth populations extremely early.

It will take approximately 10 years, eight to ten years after we leave, but after we stop managing a community, that we start seeing outbreak populations happen.

Now that's give or take.

It can happen faster or slower, depending on where we're at.

We are seeing our biggest outbreaks or some populations building in La Crosse, Wisconsin that's not that far away.

So we've seen that increase pretty rapidly in the last couple of years, and it just is population dynamics, so I don't have like a crystal ball.

What I can tell you is that oak habitat is their preferred uh area.

They love oak.

And so when we see them go through oak belt areas, they move a lot quicker than they do like in an aspen type uh component.

Council member Frederick, how many insects per acre before you pull the trigger?

We don't have an exact number on insects per acre.

It's based on trap data alone.

Our traps are set at different grid densities depending on the uh the background in which we found in the past.

So we don't have an actual moth per acre kind of threshold.

It has to do with increase over the geographical area.

So if we have uh increases of tens and that that's a high number compared to a background of zero and ones in the area.

So it has really a lot to do with concentration of all the traps in that particular area having an increase in trap data.

When you say there's an outbreak in lacrosse, what's that looking like per what do you go by acre, mile, square mile?

What do you go by?

Yeah, so when we get to outbreak levels, they they base it on um acres of defoliation.

So we're not necessarily seeing defoliation in lacrosse, but what we're seeing is easy to find egg masses and alternate life stages.

So it would not be common uncommon for a citizen to find an egg mass already on their on their trees or see certain individual trees being uh defoliated.

It wouldn't be widespread, but it'd be individual.

So they're seeing life stages, they're starting to notice it in their backyards where we're way in advance where we're seeing just uh it would be very it not that you can't find them, it would just be uncommon for citizens to find them at this low threshold.

Why wait to take drastic measures until it's a problem?

Why not take the measures before it's a problem?

Yeah, and that's exactly what we're doing with this program is to try to get them in advance.

So that's why we're trying to treat really far in advance using a pheromone-based product that only impacts it's very species specific, trying to get ahead of the front, reducing it, and actually the slow the spread program, which it's been in implemented back in 2000.

Um, what I mentioned about slowing that reducing that spread, there's an economic study that's been done on that program to make sure we're are we using taxpayer uh dollars accordingly, and so for every dollar we spend, we save three dollars in in cost and impacts once that becomes established, um, particularly like in those outbreak areas.

I like the responsible tax dollars piece.

That's good.

Go ahead.

Councilmember Wall.

Is there anything besides looking for hitchhikers that residents can do, traps or otherwise that would assist?

In the early stages, um council member walk.

Um, what we'd encourage is that citizens definitely um it's the hitchhiking that's problematic.

Um we've been seeing um increases in the Rochester area for some time, and it has to do with human assisted popular, you know, human that artificial movement component to it.

So we really encourage people, you don't have to go far into Wisconsin to go do your recreation.

So if you go to Wisconsin and areas where this pest is established and having uh impacts, could be easily hitchhiking, you know, sitting in your trailers and your campers, and then you're moving that product back home.

So being very cautious of that, we talk about firewood all the time as being a vector of movement of different forest pests.

This would be a similar thing.

Um, at this stage, we don't encourage any citizens.

You you may find traps in your local hardware store that are spongy maw traps.

We encourage folks not to to buy those.

The reason for that is you can't necessarily trap out the past because you're only trapping males.

You're never going to have impacts to the population, but what you will have is impacts to our survey that will pull survey data from us knowing where those populations potentially are.

So it could actually negatively impact the program versus have any kind of control at a local residence property.

And you talk about halting the spread.

Is there any hope for eradication?

At this stage where we are, we do hope that in the city of Rochester that we could hope for uh you know uh early eradication to delay establishment, but we can't say with 100% we're ever gonna get eradication.

When we see these isolated populations way out in advance of the front, for example, in the city of Austin, we have a block.

We do believe there's an eradication possibility because that is way out in advance of the upfront.

It was definitely an artificial movement of some sort.

We hope to have eradication where we eradicate that population, and they may not see it for another you know, 10 years, 10, 20 years.

Yeah.

Councilmember Miller, just to build on council member walls' question.

Could you lay out some potential future scenarios for us?

So you treat with the pheromone if that's successful, great, we're delayed 10 or so years.

But you mentioned that once these would become established, the pheromone treatment wouldn't be the product of choice anymore.

Can you talk about what would be and how the different scenarios go moving forward for us on lines of products?

Yeah, um that's it's really hard for me and the crystal ball to know 100% of where things could be.

Um, but I can give you kind of philosophy or thoughts on where this would be.

Um, I will say that Olmsted is very early in the management.

So we're very, very early.

We're like I mentioned, it's the first time we've been in Olmstead County.

Uh we hope to suppress and stole that population.

It really has to do with the dynamic is happening behind the front in Wisconsin and how those populations build and push westwards.

Um whether that this will not be our last time, we'll be uh here and in the city of Rochester, probably, or the city of or the county of Olmstead.

Uh we anticipate managing for some time.

Um I don't have a time frame on how long that is, but I could say it's we're very early in the stages of this pest.

Um by helping manage and slow these down, we're hoping to suppress that.

Now, once they get to a level, I mentioned another great product, and I want to talk really positive about we have another product when we do have isolated population where there's actual life stages and it's a concentration of insects in in establishment.

We use another product called Bacillus theringensis prestachia or BTK.

It's a biological uh product that impacts the feeding of the caterpillars, and it only impacts moth and butterfly caterpillars.

So we use a very environmentally kind of sensitive products.

What happens when this pest gets established in areas, people don't like insects and they go to the extremes.

So they will go to their local hardware store, they will buy uh kind of a generalized insecticide, and they will be spraying for their trees and it'll be killing all kinds of things.

So our goal here is to as species-specific products as possible to not have those negative impacts, but yet still have impacts of slowing this advancement.

Okay, thank you.

Council member uh Keene.

Uh yeah, first I want to say thanks for being here.

It's it's good to know, like in March before low flying planes start showing up in in June.

Um, but I kind of a follow-up on these other ones.

I'm still looking at the maps, the earlier on national maps and the Canadian maps from page nine and saying when you're in quarantine, is this been is that a forever state?

Yeah, so once we get into quarantines and out it becomes almost a forever state.

Um, because of the fact that these populations we would not be able to, once they get to those thresholds, we simply can't, we don't have enough resources to actually eliminate them and eradicate those in areas of establishment.

That's where you see we keep adding to the quarantine slowly as it advanced westward.

Once the pest goes under quarantine, then that's when we uh regulations come into play for uh anyone moving wood bo wood products.

Uh your lumber industry, uh, firewood becomes restricted, um, we nursery uh trees and products become regulated, and so we work with them to uh certify those products and be able to move those westward.

So there is a program that we have established to help uh move those commodities to make sure that they're treating them, certifying them, and that they can move uh out of that quarantine area.

Okay, so let's just take up uh you know, like Western Pennsylvania's been under this for years and years.

Um with the existing treatments that you're talking about in quarantine, they're seeing like nominal impacts to their trees, is it uh affecting their their uh canopy in a big way or small way?

So we're seeing continuous outbreaks of sponging moth um happening across the nation, and that's why I mentioned the 880,000 acres happening on average, uh, that ebbs and flows uh up and down.

Um different states can implement different programs to help suppress outbreak populations.

You mentioned Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania is one of the states in the entire country that has the largest suppression program going on.

So it's their State Department of Natural Resources that does a lot of aerial application to suppress their natural woodlands uh spray when they have outbreaks to reduce those populations to protect their their forest.

Uh they are seeing continuous mortality on their oak-dominated forest.

They still see uh um outbreaks happening and where they're seeing some decline in and loss of tree.

Okay.

Um I was also interested in your local maps when you showed the the different um rectangles around the city, not the city center.

Um, and these are I'm assuming just coming from the results from the thing.

Um, some of those are in the airport model, and is that are you aware of like flying within the airport canopy?

Yeah, that's that's a wonderful question.

Um we do, yep.

We uh so we've worked in a lot of different air spaces, including the international airspace in Minneapolis.

So our our applicators work very closely with all the local uh airports and and traffic, uh, military routes, uh towers.

We work very closely, so they we work uh very closely with the airport on those types of so anytime we're actively near an airport, that is definitely a communication that occurs.

Um we haven't they it is a US Forest Service contracted um a group of individuals that have been on the contract uh since 2000 since the existence of this program, and uh they have more probably acres of treatment of forest acres than anyone in the country.

Uh they're really pretty pretty very experienced pilots.

The areas around Rochester, you you noted, I mean, they're very there's some urban areas, but mostly more rural areas.

Does it have you found any sort of pattern that it moves faster in the rural areas or moves faster in the urban areas or no no correlations?

There's not really a correlation.

The only correlation that we see is that urban centers tend to have more artificial movement.

And so, like the Twin Cities metro area is hot a lot for us.

And what I mean hot is we have a lot of uh trap catchers in particular year and they may crash or it may be get established, and then we've we've had done an awful lot of applications in the Twin Cities metro area, and that's dealing with that artificial movement.

Yeah, um, we've gotten that question because it happened in 2026.

It just happens to be a lot of communities this year, um, little cities, you know, the Stuart Bills, the Winona, um it just is coincidence of where those populations kind of happened.

It didn't, it doesn't have a we don't have any correlation like it was an artificial or it was natural.

These these are more of our we're seeing natural kind of isolated populations.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Councilmember Dory.

I think you answered this, but I'm gonna ask anyway to make sure I heard correctly.

It's not a is it a one and done application or will it be repeated?

And should our residents be prepared to see these mitigation efforts continue year after year?

Yeah, for this particular project, we hope that it we will not repeat the product or project again in the same area the very next year.

Um, however, there is could be potential that we could.

Um that I can't say with 100% certainty that we wouldn't.

Um, but it's unusual to come back to an area to do management again in the near future.

Um we we typically see where we suppress these and we tend not to be back into these areas for several years later.

So that's our hope is that we don't have to come back uh to this area.

Now, whether it would be a new area within your city, there's that potential.

And then other than uh more dead moths around their property.

Have there been any reports of adverse uh reactions of residents to the application of the product itself?

What should our residents be looking out for?

Yeah, so that I I appreciate the question.

Um we have not heard any um impacts from any human health kind of situations.

Um the only concern we may have had is like um horses and penned horses concerned about them running through a fence.

Um, but we've been out in those operations, those typically the horses are not you know too too fearful, but we encourage farmers or folks that are concerned to you know corral them, keep them inside.

Um, it tends to be more concerned from citizens that they see a low-flying aircraft, and the more the bigger concern is they look up and they don't see product actually being dispensed from the aircraft.

So then that raises concern of why is an aircraft flying low and not actually doing any dispensing of product.

That tends to be our biggest concern is that people just don't understand that low rate, and we won't be applying on every single area within that big polygon area, you know, those big blocks.

We are targeting tree canopy.

So the aircraft will be shutting off over open water, over fields, over large pavement areas.

They will fly a single pass over those areas, but their booms they'll shut their booms off.

So we are only targeting tree canopy in those regions.

Thank you.

So a question um, so when you do target the three polygons in Rochester, well, we know those dates and have the ability to tell our citizens these low uh flying planes will be here this date, this date, this state, so that they can get their horses in, or if they even though I I heard you that it it doesn't impact humans, that they can stay in when that's happening.

And is there another is there a way to identify the planes?

Like are they all yellow, like there?

Yes.

Um couple of great questions.

Yes, our planes are intentional.

We do our outreach intentionally to show you the exact aircraft that we'll be flying over.

So you have a visual, you know that they're going to be yellow in flying and they're going to look like this.

So that is intentional uh on the outreach that we utilize.

In regards to notification, um, we will be doing a couple of things.

Uh we put together what we call a local government listserv, and so each and every one of you will be on that special listserv.

It's only for uh leaders and as administrators of cities and county governments and their leaders.

So the council members, mayors, county commissioners, and our goal for that is to notify you before we notify your citizens.

So if we send out a press release, you will see that press release before it hits the paper.

Um if we send out a postcard to your citizens, you're going to see that postcard before your citizens.

When we get close to operations, so this asks this answers the question about how will my citizens know.

Um we will let you know approximately a week in advance of our targeted uh application.

We have a targeted week of the end of June into the first week of July through all of Southeast Minnesota.

Once we know the Rochester area a little bit tighter, we can give you a better date.

We'll let you know about a week in advance.

We'll send out a notification, not only to you, but to any citizen that wants that notification approximately week in advance.

The night prior, we're gonna let you know again.

And then it's all weather dependent.

Then the next morning, you're actually going to get another email saying we're going to start operations this morning, and aircraft are going to be in the air around 6 30 a.m.

And they're going to be applying pretty much all day long.

And then once they're complete, we'll send you another notification saying we are completely done.

We're moving out of the Rochester area, we're moving into a different region.

So you will get those notifications on that on that special listserv.

But your citizens, which is incredibly important, is that they will get a postcard approximately two weeks before notification before we do operations.

So they're going to get a notification by a postcard saying then that this project's going to be occurring.

Then the second thing we really encourage citizens to do is sign up for either a text message or email notification.

And through those text messages and that email notification, that's when those citizens who say, you know what, I'm just not comfortable with this.

I just want to be inside during when your aircraft is in that area.

This is the way they are able to get that notification.

So they're going to get up-to-date information immediately when we're in and out of that area.

Thank you.

Councilmember Wall.

Do you have any idea what percentage of defoliated trees recover?

I do not have that particular answer.

Um, it really depends on the health, and I and this would be a great question for you know somebody in the Department of Natural Resources that deals with civil culture.

Um it does definitely stress and it depends on the health of the tree.

So if we're seeing uh dry years and drought and impacts, you're gonna see a lot more mortality in a one year of defoliation, or if you have other insects that are defoliators or other stresses on those trees, that can cause the mortality.

So it could take it, it's a it's multifaceted.

Councilmember Miller, just one quick question.

Should residents only living in those um polygons expect mailings from a postcard, or would it be citywide or county wide?

We would be focusing just on the citizens within that block and close proximity to that block.

Um, unfortunately, mailing costs are incredibly expensive, and it's so unfortunate.

Um, and unfortunately, sometimes citizens don't even, you know, don't look at their mail, they're thinking it's junk mail.

So we're doing our really we're doing a really hard, we're trying really hard to do like very colorful postcards, bringing notice to it, so it's not a black and white.

We we do that extra step to try to be eye-catching uh so people pay attention.

All right, thank you very much.

Very informative, very thorough, and uh looking forward to your uh strong communication.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for having us.

Next up, we have our uh supporting transformation update.

And I think um the studyhouse is going to leave this off for us.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

That's it.

It's always targeting.

Go for it.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um, so we have um a great presentation for you today.

We have a three-part presentation.

Um Ian and I are the first part, and then we're gonna flip and let Jenna and Tim come over here because they have the second half.

So today is really meant to be provide you an update on a component of the supporting transformation work that's happening in Rochester.

Specifically, we want to talk about the 38 million dollars that uh you approved as part of the budget process to invest in infrastructure in the downtown and greater downtown adjacent area.

So we're gonna talk about our approach to project management and project phasing.

We want to talk about the communication and engagement strategy that the team has been working on very diligently, and then also want to have a conversation around your expectations and understanding of the the question of overhead wires and and how to approach any potential policy changes going forward.

Want to ground us in this conversation today tonight or this afternoon, really when we think about these guiding principles that were developed across our partners, City, DMC, Mayo, thinking about the work over the next five years and using these guiding principles as that North Star for us in this work.

Tonight is really, or septiness really about two of the guiding principles, and that is specifically focusing on the maximizing opportunity, how we're approaching this in terms of making infrastructure investments that are work for the next 15 years for preservation or replacement work for 50 years, but also that providing the best experience possible throughout construction and the particular that first bullet, optimizing and aligning schedules across other projects in the private sector.

So we're minimizing disruption to the public.

So again, just for a frame of reference, this is the area that we're talking about, and specifically we want to talk about the $38 million that's happening in the green areas for investment.

And again, they do align what you're hearing tonight, except for CN teamers, how we're aligning those with particularly with Mayo's boat board and bound.

The other part of this for that we really want to convey is that this approach is very integrated.

We spend $38 million, right?

This is about how do we make these investments in the context of the Sanitary Sewer Master Plan, the Stormwater Management Plan, the transportation improvement plan.

So you can see the different plans that are informing how we create alignment.

So alignment not only happens in when do we get into the when everybody else is in the road, but when we do so, do we do it in a way that's very intentional and matches up with all of these other documents that you have ultimately approved over the past few years.

And with that, I'm going to turn it over.

Oh no, next slide.

So for me.

And again, to help you understand it's very much an integrated approach.

It's not just the strategic transformation team that's working on this.

We have our partners and development services, city administration, communications and engagement, legal finance, parks and rack fire, RPU, lots of city teammates that are informing this work.

And in fact, had a really great kickoff project management meeting last week with the team and our partners at DMC attended.

And I think what we were able to convey to them is there's a lot of intentionality and a lot of collaboration working happening across city departments in implementing this so that we're doing it a way that's responsive to your expectations as well as trying to again minimize the impact as much as possible for the general public.

With that, I'm going to turn it over to I.

So as Cindy said, we've been busy in reviewing what construction is going on, the timing of it, the phasing, when our blocks are going to be under construction and what's going to be done and when.

And so this is the project list that we developed.

As you can see here, you might recognize some of them, like Sixth Avenue has come before you a few times.

Couple of the projects listed on here are not location specific, but more of a broader program to help identify the investment of the 38 million.

A little bit more on the RQ later.

But as you can see here, there's different projects with different stages going on.

You'll see some maps later on when those are going to occur.

Some projects are further along than others, but most of them are still in early stages with it being scoped.

As Cindy said, uh, just recently we got a kickoff meeting with all the project managers.

Um project managers were assigned based on their skill set of uh what the project needs are and when they're available to work on the project because some of these projects are going to be a few more years out.

Yeah, and so you'll see the project managers are identified there.

Um we we did also um initiate a project management approach for these project managers so that we're all aligned, um, and then also uh we're gonna be having an ongoing monthly meetings with these project managers so that we're all aligned in regards to the focus of these projects, moving forward using the project management approach, um guiding principles, and so on, communication, so on and so forth.

So ongoing uh coordination with all these project managers, uh, and then also with our partners DMC.

What we have also here are the estimates assigned for, or not assigned, but um uh estimated for planning and construction.

Uh these are all very broad level at this point, and as we start scoping and bidding out these projects, we'll be updating this.

So, again, working closely with our finance team, um meeting regularly to review these.

Uh, right now there's not a lot of changes because it's really broad at this point.

And then this responsibility matrix exercise is really just an a sample of what we've what we've been doing.

There's a lot more that we are reviewing in regards to who's responsible for what, who's going to be there first, who's going to be there last.

We have funding responsibility here, but it's just not funding, it's also design and construction, who's going to be responsible for that, what makes sense.

And once we get to a better understanding of which area is going to happen and who's going to be responsible, we'll be memorializing that and an agreement or amendment to an agreement still to be determined.

We've got our attorneys working together.

And so when that does get decided upon, we'll be coming to you again for review and approval of those agreements.

So more to come on that.

And these next several slides are maps.

This is an overall map of all the projects in the next four years, starting this year to 2029.

And then the subsequent maps are based on construction years.

And so you see here a lot of these projects will be primarily just one-year construction, but a couple a few of them will span over a couple years.

What we wanted to show is in this area here, what are the city projects that will be impacted in that construction unit?

And you'll see in 2026 here yet, there will be construction going on.

The part that's in green, I can't remember.

Yep.

The construction, that's going to be later this year.

So you won't see that in early 2026.

But as of now, for these projects, we're a little bit behind in regards to our design and getting coordinated with the packages that are going package D and the UPUI projects.

But we are gonna we're continuously looking at it and making sure that we're going to be aligned when they're there.

2027 is a little bit more busier in regards to construction again, working in coordination with what is happening out there with package B3 and package D.

And 2028 becomes a little again just working with the package D, as you can see here.

And these are all uh as we continue to work and coordinate when things slip or move, these will also be impacted.

And then 2029 will be kind of the ending year with the Donald Size upstream project.

I think I said that right.

Um, and so that ends with our uh in 2029.

If everything goes according to plan, that will be the end of the construction seasons for this 38 million program.

So as we've been talking about this work across our teams, we've been wanting to make sure how do we have continuity?

How is when not only at the end of this work do we make sure that we still have a vibrant and healthy downtown, but that we have not what doesn't look like eight separate projects, that there is synergy in terms of not only the infrastructure below ground, but what does the above ground streetscape look like?

And so that when you arrive in this space, Sixth Avenue doesn't line up nicely with Third Avenue or Fourth Avenue or First Street, but there is a there is a language that lives across this $38 million investment.

Um so one of the as we've been talking, uh one of the criteria for that came from the DMCC board was that not only do we think about that synergy of design and having a palette of design, but also that we consider in innovation as a part of this, right?

As we're America's City for Health, what does that mean and how can that translate into some of the work that we do in this using these $38 million?

So as a team, we have decided that maybe the best approach would be to go up for our RFQ, and that RQ would be with the intention of creating a cohesive design strategy.

We already have tools like we we have design guidelines for this district, but those design guidelines are a palette that provide a lot of variety for how some uh a project might address really great streetscape.

What we want to do is create a cohesive design.

We also want to use this RFQ as an opportunity to not for us to say this is what we feel like innovation looks like, but rather do um explore, do an exercise get engagement.

Does innovation in this 38 million dollars look like materials?

Does it look like means and methods of installation below ground?

Does it involve some kind of I don't hate to use the word gadget, but a sensor, right?

What does how do we when we define innovation, what does that look like?

And so we want to recommend using a process that is bringing people together.

The schedule would be to come to you with the recommendation for a consultant to hire who will guide the design cohesion strategy and the innovation development for this space, and with the goal that there would be neighborhood and community engagement throughout the process, and we have a recommendation that would come to you by November.

And why we say that is because that still gives us time to walk it nicely with the Sixth Avenues design project, which we hope to be completed by the end of 26 and go out for bid for construction in winter of uh 26.

Um, it also then tease up the design work that will be beginning for the projects that will go under design in 27, specifically Third and Fourth Avenue.

So that has been the discussion that we've had internally along with our partners at DMC in terms of how do we approach uh integrated design and innovation in this work.

Um for a minute.

Yes.

Um councilmember of Miller.

I guess I'll have some questions after the wrap-up of this.

So I don't know if you had any.

No, that was just the remote.

We could we could pause here for questions, or we could go into the communications engagement piece and pause there for questions.

What it's broken up into three seconds.

Yeah, perfect.

I I just had a few questions about you'd mentioned integration and coordination and planning, and I feel like we've had a few checkpoints on pieces of that, and I just hope for some clarification.

So when I look back at our our recent decisions, we've we've looked at the site development plan approvals in December of 25 for the north and south parking ramps for Mayo, which included some maps showing um public art, uh screen art at the street level, a pocket park, and that feels like private space that's not necessarily contemplated by this.

Could you just talk about like the projects like that or approved for me?

So they contemplate some of these elements.

How do we expect or what should we expect for coordination with Mayo on an integrated approach?

Thank you for that question.

It's a great question, and I failed to bring that up.

So we have been also in conversation uh with our partners at Mira Mayo because and and we would do so also with any other development that comes along the way.

For example, City Walk, right?

What we want to do is at the end of this, make sure that it is a process that brings all those design efforts together.

What we're doing in the public realm consideration of what Mayo is doing in their campus landscape plan, what City Walk has we want this to be a process where it it um it looks very synergistic.

So and I appreciate the the mention of other projects, but I just I want to stay with Mayo just a minute because uh when we look at this timeline plan delivered in November 2026, my understanding is the north and south uh parking ramps are largely complete by that point.

So, how does this plan specifically inform the the north arrivals and the south parking ramp, which include public um space elements?

Sure, sure.

So those projects were uh uh were approved to have a site development plan and the um the landscape components of those, the public realm components of those, even though we say public realm, but I'm private property, are at a staff level uh review and approval.

Okay, they what informs that are the city's design standards for DMC district, which are a higher level of design standards, and so that is what informed both the North and South Arrival.

It's also what will inform the the um West Logistics final site plan approval, including uh the park, the pocket park I'll call it on 7th Avenue.

Yeah, and I appreciate you bringing it up because I was actually curious, and I looked up these site development plan approvals that came to council, and and just in the recent update on Sixth Avenue, we saw different intersection design in the in the packet from I guess our January 21st meeting.

There there shows a diagram of Center Street West and Sixth Avenue Northwest showing a roundabout of sorts, and I brought up this question about the expansion to include turn lanes and how much that encroached on the available public spaces.

And so the reason I bring this up is we see versions of this, and then we hear that it's at a staff approval level, but it does seem like some of those things are subject to change, and we've talked about expectations and setting public expectations.

So, you know, I look at the uh north ramp, the south ramp, and there are mentions of potential art locations and other things like that.

So I guess what assurances do we have that those elements that are included as potential or future are actually carried through when they're public or public realm privately owned.

And so I will uh I want to answer, but then I will also uh we have other teammates not here at the table but also available to help with answers.

Um so, first of all, I think we heard we heard that very loud and clear communication from you over the um most most recent items.

We plan to come back at regular intervals, not only providing updates on transformational capital projects, but in this case, it's very important that we bring forward to you our um here's where we're at in terms of engagement around a unified uh landscape plan for this you know 2530 square block area.

So that's our intent to bring you know continue to come back with updates, um show you how we're responding to what we're hearing from uh the neighbors that participate in these engagement processes.

Um I would then I guess defer to uh Miss Woodward or Mr.

Yetzer to speak to the site development plan that try to force the plans as presented.

Um sometimes there are unforeseen conditions that are discovered in the process, and then they work with staff to try and address it and meet the intent of those designs that were submitted.

But I I would just ask Ms.

Woodward if she had anything else to answer.

I think I think I would just differ not too much, so don't we'll save everybody on.

Um so as we are still moving through for the north arrival and south parking, they're still back and forth with Mayo.

There are items that are identified in terms of what needs to be completed for those landscape plans.

Uh most of that is happening on their private property, but also identifying items that were in the condition site development plan approval.

Um, and so those items have also been identified in terms of showing construction documents for some of those items.

So there is continuation of conversations back and forth that those get finalized, and we will need to sign off.

Um so there was a conversation last week I had mayo of what still needs to be done with those items.

Um, in terms of also briefly speaking, and I'll let Tyler jump in if I'm um inaccurate, but as the Sixth Avenue was kind of being refined, some of that West logistics came in first with the site development plan, and there was some within the traffic study the need to do something with that intersection, and those as 6th Avenue move forward, some of those things made adjustments, and so as we kind of move forward with some of these, um, I think those will get resolved as we kind of move forward.

Um, and any of those site development plan agreements that there are ongoing things that are back and forth with mail in terms of what they need to provide for that full approval, and then we also still kind of go through that process with the building permits as well.

Okay, and so I guess quick follow-up.

So between when the site development plan is finally approved and when we see what's built, is there a touch point between your approval and the construction of it?

Like how we or the public or anyone else who's you know a set of expectations or potential elements.

But like if I walk to you know the pocket park uh at the South Parking, do I know what's going to be built before it's actually finished and open?

I think we had committed to bring providing updates to city council as we move forward and those items get fully realized.

I think right now some of them are still conceptual as they're finalizing that, um, and that we will provide some updates to be able to share out.

I think there's also been some commitment by Mayo to have some of those conversations with neighborhood groups and continue to provide updates as they move forward as well.

Great.

Okay.

And I would if I could just say the um the agreements that you approved mayo has to be done by a certain time.

So um depending on the the uh site, they have to either be done by June this year or by November this year on that site, the campus landscape plan specifically.

So slightly different question.

Uh could you tell us how this um sort of cohesive public realm design strategy is different than like the Cutsky Park engagement with Gell.

So the Cutscape that engagement only included Cutsky Park.

Did not go over, it did not go east of 7th Avenue.

And so what we're talking about is east of 7th Avenue and capturing.

I think the what Gail did in um themes that came out of that Cutski Park engagement are going to be really helpful, particularly on the the west side of the investment as we transition and step down from a very intense large development into a very um neighborhood scale that has some you know multifamily but a lot of two-story, three-story uh buildings.

So that's stepping down.

So a consultant is not starting from scratch, right?

Yeah, this is not a new project that's similar to an old project because I think also with the the historic district plan, one of the things I heard from stakeholders when I participated was you ask us over and over like what we should do.

We want some follow-through.

So I just want to make sure that this isn't like doesn't feel like a brand new thing.

No, there's going they're not starting at zero.

There is a lot of engagement work and planning work that has already been done that we want them to build off of and and to that event.

We are not starting with zero on engagement either, right?

And so our engagement strategy is just a little bit different as we think about this 2530 square block.

Um and but also Kutsky Park is a little Cutsky neighborhood is is a little bit unique, and so we feel like there's a little bit more in-depth engagement that can be that neighborhood specific when we get to there.

Does this inform then continuity to other neighborhoods that are adjacent to downtown, Lower Town, the Sixth Street Bridge goes into the Sliderly Park?

I mean, is that a design set of at least principles and concepts that other neighborhoods can feel like there's some interest and focus on like feathering the border there too?

I think it's really more about feathering the border.

It does not penetrate into those neighborhoods, right?

That was not um that was not contemplated in the 30 million dollars that we asked for.

Um and so it but certainly it isn't suddenly a you know a hard line, and we don't think about how we taper and and actually it can help inform you know what might happen in the future uh to other impacted neighborhoods.

Thank you.

All right, uh Councilmember uh Palmer.

Thank you, Mr.

Miller.

You have some good questions.

Um Mr.

Miller brought up update, but or you said update to the neighborhood groups.

That's not a negotiation, that's just hey, this is what we're going to do.

Am I getting that correctly?

In terms of when are you talking about males projects going back to so um yes, but um the community development team, when they review those site plans, they very much take into consideration what they heard at those neighborhood meetings and try to press for that to also be um translated in the final design and final gates to if I go to that meeting and say I want a hundred oak trees, then I expect a hundred oak trees to be up?

Well, I I wouldn't s I couldn't I couldn't comment on that specific example, but I know they take the input of the neighborhood into consideration when they do the site development.

Okay.

And I'm just trying to be outrageous because you're gonna get outrageous.

We want all pink flowers, and you're gonna say, Well, I heard I want all big flowers.

That doesn't make much sense for me.

But what they might say is I understand from that you're saying a hundred oak trees, but what I'm hearing is an outcome that has a tree canopy.

And so how do we how do we protect and preserve a tree canopy?

Is a solution adding a new making sure that there's a hundred oak trees, or is the solution come in a different way, but still has the same outcome of tree canopy?

Well, I would disagree with that because if I asked for 100 oak trees, I'd expect 100 oak trees, and so that's kind of the example that that's but let's go a little bit different here.

In 2029, you have Sixth Avenue is going to be into a lower town area.

Um, and so how are we uh going back to Mr.

Miller?

You know, I wrote down here, you know, what do we do at Lower Town east of the river here?

Um Sixth Avenue east and west um of the bridge.

I mean, are we including all these neighborhoods uh in involved in this?

Um but I'm looking at that red spot up there, and and that is definitely affecting lower town.

So that area is uh that is the downstream upsizing project.

Um it is not a streetscape enhancement project, right?

Downstream upside.

Correct.

Yes, okay.

Um so again, when the basically wastewater types, yeah.

Okay, but if we're tearing up the road, why wouldn't we upgrade that the the uh the atmosphere of that road um that we move ahead?

By when we want to put down trees and um in in boulevards and stuff.

The roads ripped up.

So part of um, and that's not to say that that can happen, it's to what scale, right?

What we're trying to identify uh in in the map that we can previously in the um well, no, it doesn't sorry, it doesn't um give that level of detail.

But we identify what are more pedestrian-oriented corridors, what are likely when we be more vehicular-oriented corridors, and so depending on the nature of the corridor, does it get curved sidewalk and some trees back in, or does it get curved sidewalk street trees, um wider boulevard, cycle track, uh bump out nodes, to what extent does the level of enhancement happen?

In the looking at the again, what was what was why we decided this approach of of seeking 38 million dollars for investment was to not only create um development capacity with the underground infrastructure, but to uh provide uh and lessen the impact of the neighborhoods that were most intensely impacted by Mass Gold Forward and Bound, and there was consensus that Kutsky neighborhood, not that the other neighborhoods aren't impacted, but there is absolutely a greater impact to Cutsky Neighborhood.

There it is now with traffic cutting through.

Um, and so how do we address and mitigate that very intense impact in Kutsky neighborhood?

It's not to say that it isn't also happening elsewhere, but not to the extent.

So about two weeks ago I sent out a question.

I asked about the pocket park and center street and First Avenue by the East Listics Building.

It's a it's large-size rocks right now.

Um I would expect if you're doing logistics building that that would have had some green space at that time.

Then you go across the street to the um uh proton beam buildings, the buildings are all shoveled in, it looks like it's under construction, but really all they're doing is is parking their their construction vehicles on the yard.

Why aren't we why aren't we pushing mail to do what they said they were going to do there?

And so it goes back to what come Mr.

Miller's kind of saying is hey, we had this idea east, we didn't do anything.

Why should I trust you that you're gonna do it everywhere else?

Yeah, and that's a great question.

And we um uh we have to pull up and what see what the criteria were the conditions for putting that pocket mark in because they did agree to put something in, it was dependent on when a building was done, and I don't know the easy let's let's hold them in a east logistics completion of that construction.

Yeah, so both of those the pocket parks were gonna come at the end of the construction, and we've actually been meeting with Mayo as they are finalizing to start probably construction this summer.

I think it's around April, May for both of those items.

So they are outstanding items in terms of what they need to um complete at both of those projects, and we've been having conversations as they're finalizing those items and going into construction, starting at least at the end of April through September.

But but the finishing of the East Logistics Building was done two, three years ago.

Yes, and it's still an outstanding item, and there was some coordination with construction of the other, and so we had discussions of what does that look like and recognizing that both of those still need to be complete.

So as you stand there and you look at large rock, which which is a heck of an investment that somebody put into that area, it surely doesn't look like they're they're they're getting ready to sold it.

Um again, I'll go back to what Mr.

Miller is saying is if it took two or three years after the building is completed there, what's the rest of it gonna look like in are we allowing them?

I'm confused on that.

So that would be an outstanding item to get a full certificate of occupancy that they have to complete all of those items.

So those are outstanding items, and we've had those discussions with Mayo to be able to complete those.

And we have been working with them to identify those, and we follow up with them to anything that's outstanding.

And we've had that on other properties as well, um, in terms of these are outstanding items that generally have to take a little bit longer, and we're working with them to get those completed.

Well, if I have a temporary CEO, you don't typically give it two to three years to get done after the building is done.

So more questions.

I I'd have to go back and look, but I believe a condition of that particular condition on discernment was that it would allow Mayo to use that as a lay down site for a number of years.

That's why that hasn't been completed yet.

So that is something that we have brought up as an example to Mail, and they acknowledge that part of their CP is to close out that landscape.

And it was part of their agreement too.

I'm just I'm just backing up what Mr.

Miller has doubt, and everybody says, Well, trust us, but you know, it's hard to trust one once we have this other agreements done.

So point made.

Thank you.

Other questions?

I am done for I have some questions that kind of take off on uh Councilmember Miller and Councilmember Palmer in that I don't have a good sense of what the geographic scope of this uh innovation in a innovation RFQ is, and it causes me a lot of angst if we don't know what that geographic scope is to go out for bid on it, they're not going to know either, and then we're gonna have some mission creep, and I'm not sure what we're gonna get for the $300,000.

So I guess I need to have clarity on that geographic area, and I also need a little clarity to to council member Palmer's point on the hundred.

Did you say oak trees?

Oak trees that will be infested with spongy loss, but that uh that what it what are the amenities, what what actual materials that is this pallet going to be incorporating their uh design ideas to and can you give me kind of give us kind of a sense of what you know there's trees, there's benches, we'll what are we talking about?

Sure, sure.

So to the first part of your question, I pulled this map back up again.

Well, we're talking about this is the geographic area, right?

Everywhere where you see a color where we're gonna be in doing um improvements, right?

Uh this is a geographic area that may or may not have innovation.

We're not saying innovation is going to live in every single block, it might be one specific area, right?

It might be one block.

And what does what does innovation look like?

I share your concerns about you know how how big is the universe in terms of when we're talking about innovation, and so uh how do we tighten that up and not say we're gonna do 50 innovative things, but we're gonna lean in really hard on one or two and become known as the city of innovation in this space, right?

Is it like what we did during COVID and we measured wastewater and saw when COVID was getting peaky in our community, and you could forecast when it was going to start to spike, like that's innovation, right?

So, is there something like that in the underground infrastructure that helps with um uh sense how much water people are using or the you know something like that?

So I think we're still trying to get our arms around how we narrow that and tighten it up so it it um is easier for a consultant to submit a proposal on to your second question in terms of the palette and materials.

Again, we already have a really good foundation and the design standards for a DMC district, right?

Um, but it's it has everything.

You can have saw cut, you can have in you know when you're thinking about pouring concrete, you can have solid, you can have tool joints, you can have um stamped concrete, you can have pavers.

So I think we want to lean into what have we learned about what works and doesn't work in the public realm in this four season community, and um think about what's or what already is in the um designed guidelines that we have and pick from that larger palette and say this makes sense for the area that we're talking about, highly urban, not as much green space.

So, what does the hardscape look like?

How does how does that heartscape feel to someone with mobility impairment, visual impairment?

So that and that is why, as we get to you know, on a construction project, we say 30 percent, 60 percent, 90 percent.

What we want to say is for in this area, we want to tighten up the palette of materials to say this is what's gonna work in this area.

Now let's think about what works specifically for Sixth Avenue in this palette because it's all it all relates to each other.

So if we say no papers anywhere, none of these projects will have papers because that's what's come out of this process.

If we say no papers but stamp concrete, where does it make sense to stamp concrete, right?

Not everywhere, but on you know, interesting um nodes or intersections where people gather, right?

So one follow-up, and I'm gonna go to council member keen and then we'll let you wrap up the communications engagement uh piece.

So uh you you talked about uh 30%, 60% design.

So with this innovation uh consultant coming on board, will we have some efficiencies of design that we can actually uh see some savings on that process because of the work they're doing?

That could be something that we might say you to look to that.

Yes, yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

Innovation doesn't necessarily mean oh, this is a thing we can touch or solar on something, it might be means and methods of installation.

Okay, Councilmember Keene.

Yeah, thank you.

Um I guess higher level, I it is kind of daunting when you look at that uh projects page on page 41 and just try to picture if we didn't have the DMC funding, what would we be doing with these different areas?

Those obvious ones on here we've been dealing with Sixth Avenue and also the Kutsky stuff, but some of the other projects I looked at and said, I think those are being chosen in a in a good way, but here's my input on it.

I think Mayo's gonna be very obsessed and concerned with how the North and South uh arrivals and how the West logistic and they're going to make sure that their medical business is integrated and working well.

I still want to make sure what we're doing here with the city is make sure we still have an integrated downtown that allows this to happen, but also has other things that are capable of happening.

And I want to kind of stress that as we go through it.

Uh as far as looking at the projects, the one that surprised me is Project I, and I just want to make the comment here.

This idea of like the mail, when you get done with uh package D where you're doing the first street southwest of Fourth Avenue, and then you're you talk about this downstream sanitary sewer.

Um, I'm gonna make the comment here that I'm glad to see that being able to happen because I always thought these were the difficult ones because they were outside the zone.

Yeah, uh, just an explanation on that downstream upsizing that is upsizing and work that Mayo needed uh to serve the hospital after they get done with the development.

So that's being done through a contribution from Mayo Clang, um, and that's what's driving that outside.

So we agree it's nice to see that uh being accomplished.

It's actually gonna be a similar project with mail contribution, uh, which isn't allows us to uh doubt headline to the rest of the work can also and if I could just add that also is gonna serve the entire area that is likely to be right for additional private investment, and so making sure that there's capacity throughout the wastewater system for what we know is kind of you see a lot of projects that are on the cusp that are now coming to fruition that are going to also be served by the state sewer shed.

Good point out.

Yeah, and I actually we have some data on that.

I could have I should have concluded that, but we can send that out.

We have uh because it isn't just about creating capacity for mail, this is about creating capacity for future growth.

I mean we'll add so I'm hearing slightly different things here.

I'm good with with uh public works update that this is really a city-led project with mail contribution, but I'm gonna call that different than a DMC spending the 38 million dollars here and having it listed as project I.

I think of those as different things.

So if I could just clarify when we I want to go back to make this responsibility matrix, we're all gonna be in this space, and so when we say city-led project, we're saying instead of like both city and mail have work in there, let us take the lead on that project and you reimburse us, versus another block might be it makes sense for Mayo to be the lead on that project, and we reimburse them.

I'm good with that.

I understand that different work, and I and I think we've done a good job with sort of about balance that, but that's different than how DMC funds are spent, and I want to differentiate that from a city-led project that's outside the district that may always contribute to Mayo dollars are in my view very different than DMC dollars, and I'm not commingling them.

Council President Charine, Mr.

Miller one.

Go ahead, Mr.

Mayor.

That's the clarification, Councilmember Keene.

Um Cindy, can you go to the 2029 slide?

So it's also important to point out that there are DMC funds contribute to just a portion of that.

You see the A or B area in the upper right-hand corner of the slide.

That's the start of that downstream upsing project.

It takes off from there, goes up Fourth Avenue through the main room into 13th Street Northwest.

So it is part of a larger project.

The fact that it's listed as having DOC funding is because that first segment is in the district.

So it's a combination of funds coming together for that.

But that's why you're hearing both of those things in the explanation.

Yeah, thank you for that clarification.

I think again it's important for me that we we maintain that the differences there.

I I also want to follow up and this was the discussion with startup by councilmember Miller about different projects.

And I I guess I want to differentiate between you know, we see a project that has murals that has this other stuff.

Um, and I want to differentiate between we want these projects to meet our standards, and that's I think community development's dedicated to making that happen.

But there are other things that happened in our approval for demol demolition that became conditions of the demolition, or things that happened in our our our vacation of the streets that became not quite conditions, but public statements of what was going to happen based on those.

And those are different sort of commitments to me than meeting our community standards.

And I I think and I really do look for staff to make sure, like when you talk about um, I've gone back through um and council member wall conditioned things with the demolition, and those should we should make sure those happen.

Uh above and beyond males, this is a private project, and they're doing their private project.

Um, and I guess I will leave that out there.

If there's something I'm missing there, please correct me.

Thank you.

Okay, quick comment from Councilmember Miller.

Uh quick, be quick.

Uh I just again want to go back to this uh request for qualifications and note some innovations that I've heard mentioned on our council.

Um we've talked about air quality and how do we make that space uh both visible and improved air quality.

Uh Councilmember Palmer mentioned last week um considering no right on red policies to improve intersection safety.

Uh Councilmember Wall mentioned uh flexible spaces in Europe that accommodate different modes, and I just highlight retractable bollards as a very innovative but obvious way to protect people and flexible spaces, and then from the accessibility perspective, I was I had the honor of being on the sister city trip to Japan this past year, and they use what are tactile um white king guides, I believe they call them tenji blocks, but thinking about accessibility built into the public space as you're talking about the Steinhauser for different users of different uh levels of ability or accessibility.

Um I've seen those in Europe as well.

So I've never seen them in the US.

We could be innovative and bringing them to Rochester for the first time.

And I again just want to not reinvent the wheel and think about the things that we've talked about in this space, and we've heard from other engagement and make sure that we're thinking about how to incorporate those.

And you'll see that on the tour.

All right, let's go to communications engagement and partnership.

All right, well, we'll start first with um communication and engagement and thinking about partnership.

Uh so I don't think anything necessarily new, not trying to reinvent the wheel, but just really hammering home four particular points with our intentional communication.

Uh, lead with transparency and timeliness, communicate early and often across trusted channels.

Uh, this one I think is especially important.

Make it easy to find a verified up-to-date resources and information.

Um, and you heard it mentioned in kind of the first part of this segment, uh, and also very important in terms of communication and engagement, but leveraging our partner channels.

So when we think about whether it's DMC, the RDA, UMR, etc., that those partnerships are incredibly important.

We're talking about community confidence around information and being aware of what's happening.

Uh, also not new to you, um, but I think important to note is the IAP2 spectrum of engagement, and I always uh if you don't live in it every day, a good reminder that um form that first um level of engagement is a level of engagement, and it's one that is really important, right?

So uh when we think about the work that uh we're we're discussing today, you obviously heard there's going to be pieces of engagement that pushes outside of that inform area into that and consults are involved.

Um, but also you saw on one of the slides that we've done, we have all done a lot of work to date, and that means that we're in a really great position that we can leverage that foundational work to focus on the inform, where we're also um you know, back to points made today that we're not asking the community again and again, you know, the point about historic district or anything else that largely we know what the community feels on things, and then we're really trying to focus in on what else might we need to know.

Um, I think really good points too on how can we as the city team, as we work with the selective consultant, make sure part of what we're leading on our leading with is hey, here's what we know, here's kind of where we're starting with.

Um, does that sound right to you, or uh what might we be missing as we start off on that work?

But again, just the focus here is that really we will be spending a lot of our time in inform, and then that's out of respect to the community in terms of all the work that's happened today.

So, what have we been up to?

Hopefully, these things on the screen are familiar to you.

Um, first being the downtown Rochester Construction.org website, see a couple of the screenshots from there.

Um, the link newsletter on the build newsletter, uh being thoughtful of the email communication that's coming to you by way of Allison's Friday email mentioned today, neighborhood meetings, social media updates, uh PSAs that I'll mention or I'll get into a little bit further here, um, media releases, which is slightly different than the PSAs if you're split and hairs, and then commute uh community special events.

So, how are we showing up in spaces where communities at so wanting to highlight just uh here is specifically with the website that launched just about a year ago?

It's hard to believe.

Um, but we've been very happy with the utilization of the website by the community.

So, thinking about in 2025, close to 30,000 visits, um, 20,000 of those being unique visitors, um, which is really positive.

Uh, 46,000 page views and 19 email submissions.

Um, when you think about the 19 email submissions last year and thinking about four thus far, um, that is one of our ways that we ask people to let us know if they have questions.

Um, and while we might want to see more there, that also means that we likely have provided them the information they're looking for.

Uh also, as we know with 311, uh, that is a our team there is also keeping us informed if we were to see an increase in calls coming in that we have an opportunity to address, and I can say confidently that we have not seen a big spike in calls coming in about downtown construction, which to me says we're heading in the right direction.

And then just thinking about the link newsletter in terms of data, uh, we have 381 subscribers with an open rate consistently of over 60%, which if you know that space, that is a really positive percentage of folks who are actively engaging in that in that newsletter with click-through rates ranging from six to ten percent.

So for those folks looking for more information, that's when they're tending to click through, but uh positive to see uh metrics and how we are being successful in those spaces.

So I want to just mention um the public service announcements in a particular, you know, why are we mentioning this?

But you're aware that we have the PSA process that's existed for quite a long time.

Um I won't go through all the steps here, but what I will say is that through this we have a different approach in the way that this work is happening, and by that I mean how we work with our partners.

So if it's Mayo Clinic that we're working with in their communications team, uh we have bi-weekly meetings with that team as well as representatives on the call from um DMC, and so as we see potential um impacts come through, we're in communication with the Mayo team and in with the DMC team as we think about uh those major and minor uh impacts, but also how are those things being communicated, not just by the city team, but anticipating media requests, anticipating potential questions inside the clinic by Mayo staff.

So, again, something that seemingly is part of our day-to-day process that's just elevated as we move through construction.

Um, and then this last slide for my portion I wanted to highlight.

Um this was shared by Miss Steinhauser, and I think it's a really great um visual uh well, not ours, it's uh the RDAs, uh, and you may have seen this, but this is another piece of data that we can use to say how are things going, right?

So I want to call your attention to uh uh the different lines, specifically looking at the blue line and then that orange is red line.

So the blue line, as you can see, is 2019 monthly foot traffic.

Um the the red orangest line is 2025.

So the positive, even through construction, is that downtown is seeing close to pre-pandemic numbers of traffic.

So we hope in 2026 that that um traffic uh surpasses what was 2025 or right in line.

So again, these are things that we can monitor in partnership uh with folks like the RDA to understand are we in a in a positive trajectory, or are there things we are are there things we are seeing through the data that indicate we maybe need to change our approach?

Council member Palmer.

And a quick question on your data on the left in the bar graph, it looks like the residents is pretty much stayed the same since 2019.

And I really appreciate you having 2019 information on there.

That's really helpful.

Um, but but it looks like the blue is almost the same amount of people the entire time.

And then you turn around and you look at employees, and the employees still have not come back to 2019.

Um, is that how I read that correctly?

I I think so.

That's what it looks like to me.

Thank you.

Council member Miller.

But I guess if I might I I was curious, pulled up their website.

Um, it looks like residents have increased from 389,400 in 2019 to 526,700.

I think a lot of questions about how the data are sourced.

Um, but yeah, it does look like that increase is minimized because it is a smaller number than the other groups.

Thank you.

Gotta squint pretty hard, but yeah.

And I think to the question or the point on data, um, Miss Tanhouser correct me, but I think it's the place or AI data.

Correct.

Yes.

So council member Miller.

I do have a question, a comment uh because you mentioned trusted um messengers and trusted communications channels.

This has come up a couple times at our our council as well as the difficulty that we have as elected officials to communicate directly but not having tools, and I just don't want us as elected officials to be lost as trusted communications channels and people who are communicating with constituents outside of the city organization, but related.

And I'm still kind of wrestling with how we are more effective in that.

If I could just jump in and um, I think it's a great question.

It's actually one that we've been working on, and I I hope that uh at the next study session where we're talking about transformation capital projects, um, with Ms.

Bowman's team, we've been talking a lot about how do we give you the talking points you need for projects, for initiatives, um, and so that's some of the work that her team's doing right now is kind of populating the story based on um that from both by projects but also uh in other spaces both as we're hearing stuff, and her team is in the first point of contact, whether the calls are coming in from 311 or some other way.

But we know that's a gap, and we're working on a strategy to fill it and hope to have that update in April with the study session.

Okay, I think that's great.

I I agree that that's a gap that we don't have a compository of information, but I think the tool side is also a gap because it leverages only the personal email or Facebook or social media following, etc.

Council member, if I can, I will say I know there's been interest um specifically with uh the platform indigo and um a couple council members uh on the latest better public meetings uh call.

Um I did give an update.

We have been an active conversations with them most recently getting an update on some questions with the sunshine laws and and data uh as well as um pushing for the best pricing we can get.

So I have uh the forthcoming internal meeting to discuss that to see if there's any additional questions, both um from legal and just uh the nuts and bolts of how that essentially would work.

So I would hope within the next month here, um, either by way of city administrators' owns or otherwise, we could provide an update on that.

So we have hearing you and working through the process to have a response on that topic, as well as a lot of other things.

We heard a lot from different council members, elected officials about being um sort of a tool for how to be more present as it already exists.

And um, so the throughput of what Ms.

Bowman was sharing earlier on an earlier slide about trying to be more intentional about how we utilize the tools that already exist to make sure that we're ahead of things with you, is really being intentional across the lot of people involved in this and other things that aren't even on the list of projects that were sharing earlier to make sure that you have the changing information, but also at a high level so that if it is changing, then you're sharing a higher level information and not this is what the corner looks like right now that it might change in you know three weeks, three months, three years.

Um, so we're trying to be intentional about putting all of that together in a way where each of you also might show up differently in those cases.

You may have more interest in some things and others, some things might be impacting your board way more gradually than others.

I would say uh when it comes to the NIM meetings, the neighborhood information meetings, that process is you do an amazing job of giving us, I think on a weekly basis here are the NIMs of the of this week, and we can pick and choose where to go.

If if we could get something like that with community events as well, that uh all in one place, because then we can we are working on a process for that where we also just send the calendar invite and then you can say yes or tentative and decide if you're that's good too.

Other questions on community and partnerships.

Turn it over to our lead at RPU.

And now for my favorite part of the conversation underground and power.

Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak to some policy considerations around undergrounding overhead wire infrastructure.

The goal for this presentation is not to talk about any specific segments, but just to frame all of the different policy aspects that need to be considered as we assess questions like we'd like that underground, and how do we make that happen in conjunction with these co-investments?

Um, I would encourage this council, I've encouraged the RPU board to consider that in undergrounding it is always possible.

It's just a matter of cost and coordination.

We have many examples of successful undergrounding projects, and we have a few examples of failed undergrounding projects, and it really comes down to how they're approached, how they're funded, and how they're coordinated up front.

So to start with that, um, the RPU board does have a policy regarding underground conversions.

Typically speaking, if overhead wires seek to be brought underground, the person requesting the entity requesting is typically the funding source.

We have many examples where RPU is the entity driving the undergrounding project.

Uh a relevant current example is 18th Avenue Southwest.

It's a project that's in open active design right now.

It's an over a two million dollar contribution from RPU seeking to pull the overhead feeder underground as a as a part of that project, and we're working uh coordinating with other city departments to do so in conjunction with that road project.

Um there are often cost savings.

I will say sometimes these are minor compared to the capital investment.

Um in the later slides we talk about overall in the low teen millions in this DMCI DMC broad impact area of what it would take to pull all the wires underground.

If you look at call it 13 to 15 million dollars of investment overall over a 20-year period, that would save about 220,000 dollars of vegetation management costs.

So you're spending 15 to save a very small fraction of that.

Now there are other benefits to reliability improvements.

Um there's benefits to aesthetics, there's many benefits to there's even some safety benefits.

Um those are all considered here, but often the costs far outweigh the monetary benefits of these type of projects.

Um you see a poll, uh, I would encourage you to think about it touching up to seven different entities, uh, six of which are outside of RPU that are outside of our control.

These are joint use structures.

RPU is typically at the top, and a couple wires below, and then below that lives a whole host of private telecom attachers as well.

Speak to that a little bit later, but all this has to be coordinated for all of those to successfully come underground together and coordinated.

And there's also the customer to consider here as well.

That last wire that connects to the home of the business.

RQ owns it if it's overhead, but if it goes underground, it becomes a private asset and it's funded privately, and that often comes in the form of a tax assessment to fund that type of infrastructure.

Talk about the cost of that in that as well.

These are relatively high dollar capital investments on the RPU side, anywhere in the range of two and a half to five million dollars per mile to coordinate just the RPU side of this, and then there's other private investment that comes with that in the service laterals, the telecom providers.

Those include costs such as acquiring easement.

There's often an additional room outside of the right-of-way that's needed to put this infrastructure underground.

So there's private property easement that's often needed here.

And then rough cost for a single family home, it's about $10,000, average cost to pull that wire underground, and for a business, it can be upwards of $30,000.

That also requires building side modifications.

You need a new service riser instead of a service mast, new meter socket, bring it up to code in some cases.

So the costs are not minor in some of these cases.

So the two graphics there are from our service assured program, but they just represent kind of the difference between an overhead wire and an underground service.

Spoke a little bit about advantages and trade-offs here.

Many requesters.

Maybe I missed it, but I think there was one thing missed on that.

What's the charge to bring an overhead?

Free, right?

So very good question.

Question about what it taught what it means to bring an overhead.

For all new development, underground is the standard.

So we're really talking about redevelopment and infill development.

You know, we said you had the underground piece to bring it in.

It's already existing, obviously, so that doesn't cost anything.

But in those areas, if you have to bring in a new line, what's the cost to bring in a new line overhead?

You're talking like a main overhead from off the overhead into the house, into the business, into all that.

Sure.

There, if I could just park that question for a moment, I'll show a couple examples of where private service laterals were left overhead, and we can talk about the specific cost there.

Just fine.

Yeah, I'll remember to come back to that one if you let me pause that question.

The answer is zero dollars, but there's an impact there of remaining overhead wires.

There's tree canopy advantages.

The most fun and most challenging part of my job often is regarding trees.

Everyone has an example of a big Y tree or half of a tree that comes from trimming around power lines.

And so just recognize that tree canopy is a valued community asset here, and many of these trees live on private property as well.

And so that's that's something to be considered, and there's value to this.

But it often doesn't outweigh the capital cost.

And many times going underground can disrupt disrupt the root ball and damage the trees if you have to go from overhead to underground, and so it's not always a free pass to go underground and avoid future tree damage as well.

The easiest safety improvement is there's just less exposure if a car hits a pole that can create not a risk of I think they're magnets for cars sometimes to hit them, but often that creates safety hazards, and so going underground often generally has a lot of safety benefits for the community as well.

I think I've touched on the trade-offs there, so for the sake of time, I'm going to move forward.

I've touched on joint use structures and coordinating the telecom here is not an insignificant part of this.

The city has the right to manage their right of way, but they don't always have the right to force telecom providers to go underground without compensation there.

So from a cost perspective, sometimes uh achieving a full undergrounding outcome can require cost investment not only to utility to a private entity, but also to another telecom type private entity in the community as well.

And if you miss some of these things from a policy, you being we miss some of these from the policy perspective, we can be left with elements of overhead wires that exist that kind of miss the overall outcome altogether.

Underground doesn't mean invisible as well.

So I just wanted to remind everyone of those great green boxes that live in the community are required and often are required exactly in the spots where the poles are removed from.

True subsurface is uh is possible, but it comes at another scale of cost higher that is not within our current design standards.

It is achievable, and there are some cases where we are able to move those transformers indoors if they go to uh privately run dry type transformer.

So it is possible, just comes at a higher level of cost there as well.

Let's look at a few examples.

Um the left is a pre-Berkman apartment, and the right is a post-Birkin apartment or hotel.

This is a great example of where a coordinated underground project that was funded primarily by the developer was successful.

Lines moved underground, and for that corridor, there's really no overhead lines, and the telecom providers moved successfully here as well.

Here's what I would call maybe a couple unsuccessful examples.

I think on the left is a view up Sixth Avenue Southeast next to the 2017 development loft mayo park.

This was one where there is, I think TIFF funding available, and the developer used the TIFF funding to contribute to even some of the undergrounding of private service laterals on homes, and there were some holdouts.

If you zoom in right there at that first driveway on the left, there's a remaining pole in the air, and you see some wires.

There is not a means of forcing uh private uh private services underground.

So sometimes there are holdouts where you end up saying, No, I'm not interested in undergrounding or being assessed or paying $10,000, and even if it was offered from the developer to pay for that, you can lead a horse to water, but not always have a successful conversion there.

And then on the right is a picture from North Broadway from last year's undergrounding project.

If you pay attention as you drive by, you'll see some examples of secondary lift poles that are left there because we offered coordinated undergrounding, but there was not a participating private entity and there wasn't a funding source.

Um we also have to talk about responsible use of public funds because this becomes private infrastructure.

We don't take ratepayer dollars and move them into private entities, so that is typically born across cost borne by the private homeowner or some other contributor who's willing to make that private infrastructure happen.

It's a would not be a responsible use of public dollars in that regard.

Um we assessed overall the expanded impact area.

These are where the kind of project areas would exist if we sought to underground these as a part of coordinated project areas.

Um call it $13 million overall.

There are easement costs, uh legal work and some contingencies.

You never know what you know until you get into those projects as well.

Um looking for some level of direction here from the council that I can bring back to the board of how to uh maintain our goal towards undergrounding.

Um we're right at 66.33% underground overall, so we've made progress even in the last year with some undergrounding projects.

There was no budget for this DMC area established in the 26-27 budget that was focused on eight Fifth Avenue Southwest.

So to move forward with these, we would be looking for contributions or other sources of funds, not ratepayer dollars in this area.

And that's what I had prepared for you all this afternoon.

Questions, council members?

Comments?

Councilmember Miller.

I guess just as a start of a question, there are some other proposed developments in this uh map that you're showing on preliminary estimates, including like the onward project on the north end along Civic Center Drive and Fifth Avenue Northwest.

Are there any preliminary discussions with them as far as expectations or no?

This was just done at an early this work here, was done at an early planning stage when the road corridors and what could be associated with this DMC expanded area was done.

So there's been not a lot of work done here to coordinate funding sources, it's just budgetary estimates.

But it's reasonable to expect that some of these corridors or blocks might likely have a private developer interested in undergrounding portions of this.

I would agree that would be a reasonable expectation, and it might be valued by a developer to contribute towards undergrounding.

It often is something that's desired when you're putting investments in to bring that aesthetic.

And sometimes there's uses of property that's desired all the way up to the edge of the right of way that would lead to those contributions as well.

Great.

So then an actual question along the Sixth Avenue Northwest border.

We've heard about this double boulevard from tool.

Does the viability of a double boulevard with overstory trees conflict with overhead power lines?

Um I would say overhead designs can be incorporated into any type of cross section.

Okay.

So and depending on the change of the I I'm not intimately familiar with the road section that's being described there, but um one of the challenges in general here is you're taking existing infrastructure that's overhead that's never existed in the right of way, and it often requires coordination with the LET utilities to move and mixed space or private easement.

And so that's part of the design challenge that would be um that would be part of the design goals once we've uh bid off one of these projects.

My final immediate question is if if so we've we've heard about this Dick Watts philosophy of how much of the downtown is uh under construction through 2029.

If we pass on these blocks, what is the reasonable next point?

How many how many years might they continue to exist over time?

Like how many?

It's like the intersection design of Broadway Highway 14.

We we reconstruct that, and that's a 50-year lifespan.

Yep.

From RPU's perspective, we always discuss when there's a time for an asset being needing to be replaced.

Is that the right time to underground it?

The pole assets in this area have all different types of vintages.

There's some examples of polls that were set within the last two years that would be a challenge to invest in underground those.

It's not always a waste.

I would say we can reuse some of those newer poles, so there is some recycling reuse opportunities there.

So from RPU's perspective, we look at opportunities anytime there's a coordinated project, it's an opportunity time to look at putting that together, or if there's an aging asset, but it's also a challenge to do it unilaterally from RPU's perspective because to go underground requires coordination with all the other utilities.

So we take opportune times when there's work happening together.

So realistically, 40 years from now, that's still the overhead configuration.

We build assets for 40-year life, so yeah, the renewal assets could come decades down the road.

Okay.

Council Member Dory.

The 60% figure you just gave to us.

Is that citywide?

Is that in the project?

That is citywide, 66.33.

I just looked up the number, that's how we closed 2024.

Okay.

And there's two people.

There's a how much goes from overhead to underground.

That's the top number that we divide that that's in the numerator, the bottom number, new development all goes underground, and so that that percentage blends down with city expansion and new underground going in and conversions happening.

Thank you for that clarification.

Councilmember Keen.

Uh, yeah, I appreciate seeing this because I've seen it a little bit before.

The one that surprises me though is the Sixth Avenue coming off of uh center, uh Civic Center, and that not being part of this discussion we've been having about a Sixth Avenue.

Uh can you talk to that or why that's not a part of that project?

So uh first there the the funding sources haven't been identified yet to the undergrounding piece on the Sixth Avenue from a outside of RPU investment.

RPU didn't budget in these undergrounding areas, so there's not current RPU sourced funding for it, and so the the whether it's going to be coordinated with outside funding opportunities, whether it be development or um taking other sources of funds, uh we haven't identified that yet to find a source to bring it all underground.

Okay, so when I when I hear uh I'll just talk about the all the duct work and all the electric uh the undergrounding work for utilities, it's everything but electricity.

Yes for the the DNC contribution.

Can you talk to the uh the genesis of why that is?

Why it's not considered a utility when we say underground utilities?

Well, I do believe in uh Sandy, we could jump in and help me here as well.

The the contribution of the the upsizing of the infrastructure was focused on the underground wet utilities that already existed there on a per block basis.

It did not include the overhead components of utilities or RPU or any of the private telecoms.

And that is correct, and and I would say part of the um what we were focused on in the uh below ground was uh increasing capacity of the wet utilities in particular.

I I I hear that, but I I know there's all kinds of work moving electric capacity from the new South Southeast um uh transformers and moving it into downtown all underground.

That's totally different work.

Um that's you know, major major lines that's but I I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that but if it's an existing utility, or does it have to do with whether it's servicing the downtown buildings or whether it's servicing the neighborhood to the west?

So let me ask a little bit more.

You're not you're talking about other duct banks and electric infrastructure.

Well, I'm talking about I I've been I know there's a lot of other when we talk about this duck duck underground, there's been a lot of electricity work down there, but it's not individual lines going to homes, it's major sources coming into downtown.

So maybe they're totally different things, but I I guess I did not accept up front that when I hear that we're under good they're doing all this underground utility work that it was everything but electricity.

There's a lot of underground electric work that has gone into the bold forward direct mail investment, direct RPU investment that's funded a good portion from Mayo to provide new backbone infrastructure in and around the downtown.

But none of those conversations to date have been around undergrounding other existing infrastructure that serves other uh customers until very recently with the approval of the 38 million dollars and the idea of aesthetic undergrounding and protecting trees.

The so the undergrounding of these pieces here on this map have really been a very recent conversation within the the timeline from when the DMC contributions towards uh utility upsizing for the white utilities had been brought forward.

Okay.

I I I'm reacting a little bit to a discussion in another uh public meeting where it was said that these don't service the new buildings in Mail, they service the neighborhoods to the west, not to the east.

And I guess I didn't think that should have come into uh into discussion, but going back to your request here as far as direction needed, it it doesn't seem right that that this the work that's happening here should be uh f we should be trying to find a way to route those expenses to RPU rate papers.

So I would not support that as the direction of uh the which I think means maintain the consistency of the RPU policy.

Um as far as system cost and benefits for existing rate pairs, it's my understanding that RPU does have an outlook in five years and has a nominal budget for undergrounding and are trying to slowly but surely do this stuff.

And I guess I I I think that's the consistent way to do this.

I guess I still question when someone is doing something like putting in a park or or changing uh the the work on one side of the street that that wouldn't be the project that would include undergrounding.

But I think the problem with that is you've got to have a select like distance to underground.

You can't just do one city street and have it up on both sides on the other side, it's just inconsistent.

I would agree there's limited benefit to doing piecemeal undergrounding, especially when you're going over, under and back over again.

So we typically like to find larger projects that can be coordinated together that provide the most benefit.

Thank you.

Uh councilmember Frederick, thank you.

When you put in your new underground electric, are you running in a pipe?

Are you pulling it?

Are you putting in a pipe first and running through the pipe?

Or is it just the line going in the ground?

Most over most higher voltage pieces are in pipes.

A pipe goes in the ground first.

You consider a new subdivision, for example, the pipe goes in first, and then RPU comes back and then puts our wires in behind it.

So do you have other utilities renting real estate in that pipe and running through it as well?

Is it always look for enjoying trench opportunities with other utilities like telecoms, for example, and we try and put those pipes together into a common trench.

And not in the same pipe.

Not in the same pipe, but in the same trench.

Very good.

I was just curious about that.

We try and maintain separation, and sometimes that includes gas in that same.

There's a reason for it.

I get it.

Yeah, we do.

I don't need to get down that rabbit hole.

So I just uh I just want to just like Mr.

Keene mentioned what he's in support of.

I'm in support of whatever provides the most reliable service for the best value for the best price.

That's what I'm in support of for the consumer.

Councilmember Wall.

I was uh unsuccessful in getting recognized some while ago.

And the times appropriate, uh I'll have a couple of questions for Ms.

Steinhauser, but I can wait.

Okay.

Um Councilmember Palmer, real quick, I agree with Mr.

Keene.

Councilmember Miller.

Uh just a question.

Since we've talked a lot about Guthy Park and the special million dollars to the DMC public realm, have we asked them what their preferences are of the space?

I mean, I I say that rhetorically because I I have heard it come up in public meetings.

Um, but I feel like it's been in this NIM style.

We'll take your feedback, we'll write it down, and then we'll come back to you.

But it does feel to me like there's been additional engagement with Tusky Park and the Gull report, etc.

I just sense that there's from Mr.

McCullough's presentation some precedent for paying for private service connections when there's a broader um benefit to the public experience.

And I'm just curious about that.

Like how much has the neighborhood been engaged in the potential use of the eight million dollars and doing C funding.

And and when you're talking about the underwise, you're talking specifically Seventh Avenue and Six, correct?

That's where I've heard it come up the close.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's a great question.

And actually, one of the things that we have been talking about internally is that that $8 million in Cutski Park Cutski neighborhood needs a special process.

It needs a much more engagement, much more co-design.

And so just from a scheduling perspective, and talking with our partners over at DMC who very much want to be part of that process, we really feel like 26 is not the year that we have capacity to do that, but rather it's in 27 and it's a very intentional much more intense process to engage the neighborhood.

So it is it's in our plan, just not for 26.

Okay.

So I I guess I'll just reiterate that I I would agree with Mr.

Keene that I wouldn't be in favor of shifting these costs under repairs, but I do feel like we have a special part of digital funding source to work with the neighborhood to consider it the best use of that fund through the Gell report and otherwise, and what I've heard over and over is the importance of overstory trees and shade in the West Logistics Center Park, and that's felt like it's been in conflict with overheadlines, and I would just encourage staff and the DMC process to work intensively with them to resolve that and present some of these numbers, and it really be a process of co-design or shared decision making on how that is best used in the public realm.

That's that was our intent.

We're not here to say here's what we think should happen in your neighborhood, but what would you think should have because I don't think anybody's ever said this is what it would cost, right?

So you there's been an allocation of eight billion dollars in DMC funding source, but here's how much could go to this undergrounding, should should that be possible, how much of that would it take off?

And I appreciate the specificity of this analysis.

That among the other vehicles.

Sure, absolutely.

So I'm gonna ask a more pointed question regarding the undergrounding on 7th Avenue Northwest.

So I see a estimate of 1.99 million, and to the following up on Councilmember Miller's kind of public good, has this been a discussion point with our partnership with Mail Clinic as far as I know I know Mr.

McCullough mentioned if there's a private funder that uh that is available to fund it.

Has this been an ask or or a point of discussion with Mail Clinic regarding the undergrounding on 7th to fulfill what I think was the initial intent of uh the linear park?

So uh we have not asked them, would you be willing to fund 7th Avenue, right?

Well, we have raised the conversation around because we've been asked, will Mayo's park include the bearing of overhead wires for that when they do the park?

And that is not something that they had anticipated as part of the park design.

No.

And is are these expectations have they been delivered to our neighbors in Cutski Park?

Because part of what my concern is uh setting expectation expectations.

I am of the uh of the mind that uh Councilmember Keene, Councilmember Miller, what uh the the uh rules and guidelines that uh Mr.

McCullough uh clarified for us, and and uh so I'm in line with that, but if there is a private funder out there for this project, then uh I would like to see us pursue it.

If that private funder said no, this is not part of our plan, then I think it's very important that we as early as possible.

I hope today isn't the first time where we set the expectations to the neighborhood that that is not likely to happen.

And I know they had a meeting last week.

Is that message delivered to them?

I was not at the meeting last week, so I'd have to check the staff.

I am not personally delivered that message.

I know we have I would say implied it in various conversations, but as directors, you've just said no.

So we will do that.

Tomorrow.

Oh, tomorrow.

So they will hear tomorrow.

All right, council member will as far as feedback for RPU, I believe Mr.

Keene's uh approach is very fair and reasonable.

Um I hate to drag us back uh 45 minutes.

Um, but is the design the design consultants cost, uh, how much is that?

Is that included in the planning estimate and in the final 38 million?

So we are budgeting about 300,000 for that project uh for that consultant, and there if you recall that um included in the current DNC in the budget in 25 was a million dollars for planning, engineering, and design, and so it would come out of that million that original million dollars, so not in the 38 million.

Okay.

And then uh the second question short question but it actually intersects with uh quite well with what President Schubert was just talking about.

When I first saw uh what the title of this would be I thought we might get an update on uh the uh vertical park on seven uh do we get some kind of update about that because I I think that seemed to be a some considerable interest on the part of uh the council and the vertical part of linear part on 7th Avenue so uh I apologize that that was the expectation I just thought but we can we have a study session with you um on transformation capital projects next month and we can include in that um any information that we have on where that project is at again it's a staff level approval and I but we can provide an update on where we're at with getting designed from now and what we are what we know about the design can I just clarify um so on one of the slides um so it is included in that 38 um the consultant yeah it's not in that slide to um but we do have a million dollars we do have a million dollars in the try to go back and clarify something um I think Mr.

Miller said the goal report I don't know I have a copy of that or I don't quite know the history and I asked the question prior weeks ago eight million dollars of DMC money can't be spent outside the DMC area how are we going to pull that off so uh so first of all we'll get you a copy of the Gale report it's just an informal um report that DMC did it's not something that's come to you that you initiated that you adopted it's just been it was an informed engagement you didn't miss it.

Thank you.

And then uh we in our conversations with DMC the very question was of this 8 million what if through the neighborhood process they identify investment beyond your boundaries that would require coming back to both the DMC board and to the city council or boundary modification if you wanted to advance those recommendations and to spend the $8 million.

Okay and and this just a bad point for me is one of them we asked them I believe or we thought we did on the parking ramp up for the rec center to extend the boundary they said no I know our friends at the county want us to extend it out there to their um Seneca site um which I don't know if we're gonna do that but I would not be in favor of extending the the boundary for DMC in yeah pretty anything else on this topic council member keen yeah just this is back to Ms.

Bauman here just on the this uh spectrum of engagement and I I know I've used this we've seen this before I really like it as far as a method of communicating but my input is that a lot of times we imply that we want to collaborate or that we imply that we want to involve the neighbors where I think what we really are trying to do is inform and even consult with them and I I think I think it would help head off some problems to be more deliberate with that and say we really we both mainly inform but we also do want to consult and we want to have these ideas and they may come to be but the there seems to be an implication of oh we need your ideas we need you to tell us what to do and then we don't do it and I think that's where a lot of the bad feelings come from all right we're gonna take a four minute break and back with our two other agenda items

Housing code code update.

We want to give you some context and history around our rental inspection program and process.

We want to talk about some of the data to inform some of this since we haven't had an opportunity to share this program with all of you, or it's been some time.

We wanted to kind of give you that context up front.

We'll talk a bit about some of the internal and external discussions we have within the city and housing providers to bring you these housing codes to you today.

I'll transition it over to Heather Barnes, the new manager of housing and neighborhood services to talk about the specific uh updates, and we'll have time for questions at the end.

So, just a quick overview of housing and neighborhood services.

This is a division within the community development department.

We rely on the housing code as our guidance for enforcement.

It's also known as chapter seven of the Rochester Code of Ordinances.

Worth noting is we use it as a mechanism to enforce rental properties, and there's information there on what a rental is requirement.

But technically, it's also it can also be used for any residential property for uh for sale uh included.

So just wanted to share that.

We require the city of Rochester for every property that does that is occupied in which the property owner um has another, excuse me, rephrase this.

We require rental license for every property in which a property owner does not reside at the property to have a rental license.

There are some exceptions.

Um essentially require a rental to uh renew their license on an annual basis, and we have inspection requirements for that as well through our property incentive program, which I'll talk about next.

We have a variety of different inspections that we do, but the intent is to regularly inspect our properties for property maintenance essentially.

Uh historically, we would inspect properties every two years or by an we change that with the adaptation of the property incentive program in 2023.

But essentially, we we would have perhaps a new use rental inspection for a new rental, we would have a routine of renewal.

Um once we do that, we give up uh a notice of violation and list the corrections needed in 30 days, and then we would come back for a reinspection till all those items are met for compliance.

Just as so, really, we're intentional about going to properties and training maintained compliance and property maintenance.

Um, however, residents, community members also have an opportunity to uh submit concerns to the city to investigate separately if needed.

That's done through our 311 system, and if that occurs for a rental, for example, we would investigate that separately, we'd go through different processes, and we call that an investigation inspection.

So just know that all those exist uh to ensure uh uh property maintenance and livability.

Our team has four housing inspectors.

We also have uh a teammate who is a half housing inspector, half code enforcement, and then we have a zoning uh compliance liaison as well.

So, as mentioned the property incentive program, really what this is is we go out for our routine inspection, uh, and based on that inspection, the results in a one, two, three, or four year inspection cycle.

So, once again, council approved this in 2023.

Our intention really is to incentivize compliance uh uh for those inspections, and I'll show you kind of how that's been going for us so far.

Other things to know is a specific criteria that scoring is kept as kept confidential on purpose.

Our inspectors actually asked to not know it to avoid bias.

Uh so we've edited that, we've looked at other communities for designing this.

We looked, uh, we've edited it internally for the other city staff to look at this, and we've really just been tracking how it's going to see if we need to make baseline adjustments to that scoring.

All right, so some quick data if you're interested, uh, how has it been going?

And so we're going pretty well.

We would like to see this is just sort of a baseline once again of the one, two, three, four-year inspection cycles.

We would like to see more properties result in that three and four year number.

Um, this is looking at property licenses or not looking at by units, and that's worth noting, and I repeat that.

But a license is for a building.

So we require a license for each building.

So it could be one unit, it could be hundreds of units.

So keep that in mind.

Another thing that we will take a look at is we intentionally, for every new use rental, we automatically result them in a two-year result.

Uh, we do that because we find often um their score sort of uh results in a lower result because we have more findings the first time, not always, but often, and we used to do two-year inspection cycles previously.

So we made that decision that a two-year, or excuse me, a new use rental will come back in two years to sort of maintain that consistency.

Um, so you see that reflected in the data, and that's something we can consider going forward to show aside from new uses.

How is it looking?

Uh, by the numbers, you've seen some of this information recently in your action plan update, but we're we're seeing the numbers trend upward slightly.

Keep in mind when we're looking at this, it's sort of a net increase because rentals can come off of our rental license program and transition to homeownership as well.

But today, or as of February 12th, we have over 6,000 rental licenses.

Remember, license for building and over 23,000 rental units.

I think if we look at this data from last year, the same month, that's a net increase of about 300 rental units.

Council number doors.

And are those rental units uh multifamily rental units, or what is the larger percentage of those?

All of the above is captured in that 23,000 number unit.

I we could clarify.

I want to make sure I have that right.

Most of them are multifamily.

My quick I'm running through the numbers in my head is that yes, the highest proportion are going to be multifamily.

And that data was sort of captured in your action plan update as well.

Okay.

Council member miller should include short-term and long-term rental.

Does include short-term rentals as well.

So council member former.

Thank you.

So we have a large brand new building.

We don't inspect it until the second year, or do we inspect it right away?

If it's a brand new building, we're not going to inspect it for two years.

So we make a note on this certificate of occupancy.

This is new, this is two code, we're not coming back for two years.

Why would you wait till four?

Why wouldn't you wait till four?

Like I said, primarily consistency with what we used to do and what we see, and typically we find those issues two years in.

So it's certainly open to discussion, but it's intentional for us to be more consistent in what we're finding.

But we used to inspect a Merberg team once.

Years ago.

Sure.

But you're suggesting to go four years.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Continue.

Rental license applications.

And we we figure this might be of interest as well.

This is showing new use rental applications by the month last year.

You can see this number fluctuates a lot.

I'm just double checking here.

Other ranges from 21 to 40 with an average of 27 a month.

And this could also be we have instances where a rental changes ownership and their time to transfer that sort of lapses, and then they have to apply again.

So that could also be encompassed by this number.

But it's interesting to show the change often we get new use rentals.

And that's worth noting because this next slide shows you how many inspections we're doing, and that sort of correlates with that data of new use rentals.

This is showing certificates again, so not respective of all the units.

So one certificate could be hundreds of units, but it's showing as one inspection.

It's including new use inspections, routine or renewal inspections, re-inspections, complaints or investigation inspections.

And the range for this is between a thousand to twenty, eight hundred inspections a month with an average of 2200.

So that's about how often our team is doing these inspections.

September was a smaller month.

We had less new use applications.

I think we had a staff out and we had a lot of large building inspections, so lots of units are showing us some other number.

So with that, I'm going to transition it over to our new manager of housing neighbors neighborhood services.

Heather Barnes to talk about the housing code updates we are proposing.

Awesome.

Thank you, Taryn.

Thank you for having me, Council.

This is the first time, so we'll see.

Perfect.

Okay.

So as Taryn kind of mentioned, we last updated in 2023.

That was our that was a complete rewrite and the first go at aligning with the International Property Maintenance Code, also known as the IPMC.

These most recent updates are to better align with the 2024 IPMC.

So a lot of the updates are small in nature.

We wanted more clarity on code language used for violations.

We often see.

Basing our housing code on an international standard is a best practice to be vetted by experts and more predictable for our community members.

Some of our guiding sources are listed here.

As mentioned, we follow the IPMC.

That's the standard as a city, as Terry mentioned in 2023, we've decided to follow.

Other references and guidance comes from a variety of places, some of which are listed here.

So this is a list.

I realize it's quite small, I apologize.

But of internal and external engagement.

So starting in August of 2025, we have a quarterly Rochester Multi-Housing Association, also known as RMHA, their management committee.

We let that group know that our housing code update was taking place over the next few months, just as that initial onset.

On October 22nd, we had an annual RMHA in-person event.

Uh that same announcement was given of hey, a housing code update is coming.

Around 60 housing providers were in attendance that day.

On October 24th, we communicated to all housing providers on file in our system for active rental licenses.

So that's 6,000 or so rental licenses that Taryn mentioned on upcoming changes and how they can remain informed.

And then from September to December, our team reviewed the current code line by line comparison to the 2024 IPMC.

From December 2025 to February 2026, the internal review expanded outside of our uh housing and neighborhood services division that includes administrative assistance, uh the building official, Rochester Fire, and the City Attorney's Office.

On February 13th, an email again went out to all housing providers on file for active rental licenses, informing them of this meeting, uh City Council study session today, March 9th, and a summary document that was given of the housing code for those changes.

And then on February 19th during our next quarterly RMHA meeting, we gave space for any questions that that management group had uh from that email that was sent out just a couple days prior.

So we want a better equipped housing providers to be compliant.

We want properties, as Terry mentioned, to score higher on that property incentive program.

This is achieved, we feel by clear and predictable housing codes.

The expectation is housing providers know what we are looking for and what we would write in a letter of violation.

For example, um, pictured here in 2025, along with the help of our uh communications department, we updated the complete pre-inspection rundown document for a detailed list of items to look for before a city inspection takes place, and the pre-inspection checklist for a quicker review.

These two documents were released in 2025 to help aid and clear and predictable housing the code updates being brought to you now in 2026.

So I'm gonna go over four kind of noteworthy updates, uh, just the highlight of those.

The first is we did remove the offer to rent while waiting for an inspection.

Prior to the full integration of the property incentive program, at some points in time, scheduling an inspection was months out.

We are now in the third full year of the property incentive program, and we're currently around one to three weeks out for scheduling and inspection.

So we see the intent of the property incentive program coming to fruition by these higher intervals between inspections.

This change will also improve a renter's ins experience by ensuring they move into an already inspected property.

Secondly, and along those lines, this is why the change to late compliance fees are being made.

Currently, this fee is assessed either 90 days after the rental license expires or 90 days after the most recent inspection.

We're removing the or the after the most recent inspection clause, due to inspection scheduling availability as being more available, like I previously mentioned, and then probably more importantly, this clear deadline prevents confusion on when late compliance fees will occur.

It also keeps the rule being applied consistently to each rental license.

The third highlighted change here is if a conversion of a single household dwelling to a multi-household dwelling takes place, the updated code gives a list of criteria of what's needed for compliance.

The property owner can either comply with and complete permitted work to bring the property up to code with the change in occupancy.

One example would be fire separation, that's the most common one.

Um, or would need to remove interior doors that created that separation.

This update also aids in the effort to have safe living conditions for those occupying the home.

And lastly, uh measurements detailing for egress windows.

This is codifying policy.

We recognize that there are cases where new use rentals have approved permitted windows that met the building codes at the time.

These details added to this housing code update gives us direction to point to when inspecting while providing clarity to those to what those requirements were in that year.

Council member.

Just a quick one on that slide.

The third one there, you have single family and a multi-unit dwelling.

I don't know how many you do in a year or an average, but basically that makes it an ADU.

It's more reacting to what we see a lot is folks illegally adding a unit, like making a duplex out of single family dwelling more than anything else.

Is that makes sense in the you have a lot of those?

We're seeing a lot, yeah.

Okay, and so you you mentioned one of the requirements is the separation of fire one hour separation between the units, but also separate on electrical separate for separate everything.

Um there's a huge cost to that.

And so you're saying that it's being done, and then you all find out about it, and now they gotta go backwards.

And then we have options for compliance for converting back to how it was approved.

Councilmember Frederick for clarity on that.

For clarity on that, I do want to just reiterate for the 20 people listening today that uh it is very expensive.

And it's not just easy, you don't just go buy a house and turn it into a duplex.

It's it's not that simple.

And I just don't want people to get the idea, oh, we can just take these houses and split them into duplexes because the the just the fire separation is a huge deal, and so is all the separate utilities and all the things to go with that.

So I just wanted to clarify that.

Thank you.

Councilmember Miller.

I guess to build on that, but from more broadly on an engagement, is there engagement proactively to the community of saying, you know, I think we talked a lot about the example of a senior couple or individual living in a house that's too large for them.

And it seems very sensible that one pathway to staying in your home is to finding new flexibility within the finding renter.

Have we thought about workshops or engagement to the community to help manage that, especially if you're seeing more of these situations where people are coming in and you're finding out about it after the fact?

I will say we haven't explicitly thought about communication campaigns to describe what we're seeing, but we are trying to consider other pathways to this that are legal and ways to provide resources to do that.

So without committing to specifics, and we have some in mind that I I think would align with the action plan, for example, and would also address this.

Okay.

Second question about engagement.

It seems like this internally and then focused on housing providers.

So engagement with any groups of tenants, renters, and how might that inform some of the inspection process?

Obviously, I I would agree that we would want uh buildings to be in compliance and those buildings or licenses to be granted for longer inspection periods because they're in compliance.

But I just wonder where there's an opportunity to hear from tenants, um, and especially as we have some enterprises that are managing a lot more property, making sure that we understand from a tenant perspective where those management companies are in compliance with our code, but also some of the pitfalls.

I think that's a good point and good feedback.

And we did the larger update in 2023.

We didn't have avenues to reach um tenants and residents, so did we to this point no?

And certainly that's something we can think about um in trying to find it right.

We'll have to think of more organic ways to connect with tenants.

Okay.

Councilmember Palmer.

Mr.

Miller's saying um I agree 110% with that, but also are you planning to bring it to a public hearing then to the city council?

I believe since it's going to be a proposed ordinance.

Um, the next slide.

Go one back then.

Yeah.

Um, I'm gonna ask about the egress windows, and we had kind of a conversation by email on this.

Um if I have an existing house and I'm going to change my window out, all I have to do is just not make it smaller.

And we've gone back and forth on dates on uh when we had egress windows when we didn't have e-gris windows.

So if I have a house built before 1965, you're saying there are no egress windows, we don't really care.

Yeah, uh, and the code is that is that kind of what we're saying?

I'd say it's very situational, right?

You can replace like for lights, or we're looking at the situation when the property was filled, if they're existing approved plans, if they are in the windows, so we do a lot more in-depth work.

Um, and something I think you're also aware of is that we also have a process called it an administrative modification process with windows.

We're trying to be more explicit, this is approved or not, but we have a secondary process essentially if you're asking to stray from the code and you have rationale to do that, we have the opportunity to do that deeper dive.

So it's a clear answer, right?

But right, there wasn't a code before that time explicitly that called out the size of egress windows and minimum requirements in that respect.

So if I have a house built 1970 and I have an awning window, which was approved at that time for a bedroom.

Right.

Unless I'm changing the use, we really don't we we can't make them change that window to an egress window.

The current equus window.

It was approved for replacing like for like right, we couldn't make them eat today's standards, and we're looking to make that more clear in our code.

So again, if I'm in a house in Elton Hills Drive and I had an awning window and I'm gonna rent it out now, um, I can rent it out and I don't have to change out the egress window.

I I would generally say yes, still situational.

Generally I would say yes.

Well, you see, when you say situational, that's where the problem comes in with with tenants and landlords, and in if I'm gonna buy a unit, do I have to wait to find out and get a gotcha, or do I this is the rule?

Yeah, that's fair.

Well, and that's a what Mr.

Fredericks is talking about is so who inspects it.

And and I know that that one of the hardest things to do from inspection perspective is be um consistent with all your inspectors.

So, how do you how do you as a department make sure that everybody is consistent?

I walk through an apartment, and you walk to an apartment, and we we all are looking for the same thing.

Yeah, I'm answer both of those questions because as you anticipate make that feedback a lot.

Um and we do a number of things, and we're certainly open to discussion because it's important to us to try to be consistent as possible.

Um we've done mock inspections before as a group to try to observe everyone.

Generally, everyone's gonna be at a heightened level of review when we're doing it all together.

Um and I know Heather's team meets bi-weekly as well.

And generally all those conversations are technical in nature, and we're talking about are we consistently calling this out?

Are we consistently calling that out?

We certainly get our own inflow of um uh feedback from housing providers as well.

So we we take all those very seriously, and we're usually researching those internally and making sure we're consistent.

So it's not a perfect process, but we are aiming towards that, and those are some steps we continue to take to try to be more consistent.

I think your other question about the awning window and what to expect.

Um it's true that we put in our code explicitly to say if you have a window that's approved, uh excuse me, it's original or you replace like for like at this time it's approved.

We've had rare examples, and that's why I have to add that in there.

We found a window was reduced in size.

Usually you don't see that.

See that, but it's happened.

So that's therefore doesn't come out.

Thank you.

Councilmember Fredericks.

All right.

So uh first of all, the owners paid for these inspections.

I didn't go over.

The owners pay for all these inspections, and it's and it can get pretty costly.

So I want that to be out there.

Um they just you guys just don't send us a our notice and say, hey, we're gonna inspect and just show up, we're required to pay for those things with adjust to the cost of things.

The next thing is this there's a fine line between there's there's people out there doing market rate housing that's expensive, but some of us are in the affordable realm of things, and all of a sudden when inspections get extremely nitpicky, out of bounds, things get very expensive, and things that things that probably aren't imminent danger.

Okay.

So what what code is the most nitpicky?

Is it international?

Is it Minnesota State?

Is it Rochester City?

I'm gonna answer that in a few ways, right?

Because one of your points was the cost to inspect, which is true.

So thank you for pointing that out.

I mentioned that rentals pay an annual uh license fee, so that costs is $66 per building and an additional $20 per unit.

So that's the baseline cost of what it costs to um do inspections for us to respond to complaints as well.

That's all covered.

Um we have penalty fees, we try to offer an incentive, right, for complaints, and then penalties if we have um expired license, which we have our fair share of those as well.

I want a feedback for you on that too.

Sure.

90 days is super graceful.

I mean, that's absurd.

In the private world, you get about two weeks to pay your bill or 30 days at the most.

So 90 days is more than sufficient to pay a deal, fix the problem, you know, don't pay a fine.

So I I just think you're extremely graceful that way.

So go ahead and rest of it.

I appreciate the feedback.

I think your other question is where is the higher prevailing code?

Uh and there isn't necessarily one, right?

The IPMC, I guess is our standard, and that is generally the guide that says you should maintain things.

Let me ask you this first.

That's it.

Just so we don't go down a whole path.

We don't need to.

Which one gives you the most movement?

Which one gives you and the and the tenant and the property owner the most movement?

Um it's a difficult question, right?

Because one gives us the property maintenance code, tells us that a property should be maintained, and then the building code gives us restrictions, right?

So, in a way, the property maintenance code is is the code sort of to your point that's saying you need to maintain it and gives us flexibility, but then we have a balancing and then we can't be more restrictive either than building code.

Because uh, you know, is it what could a person just adopt the Minnesota State Code done?

Could a person interduct, could a city, I should say, adopt the international code done, then we don't have to make our own policies, do our own thing, we just have it.

Let them take care of all that stuff that way anybody moving.

This is a huge transitional community, people move from elsewhere and know what to expect.

We know what to expect, boom.

Not, well, this says this and this says this and this says this, but this, you know, there's a lot of that.

And you know, the situation, a lot of people in the realm of affordable housing, which means not let's face it, not to new code.

They're faced with okay, how do we keep this affordable?

How do we, you know, because you hear we want affordable housing, we want affordable housing, and boom, next, your taxes triple, this goes up, that goes up, then you're slapped with 10,000 in improvements.

It's like, okay, how do you keep it affordable?

Less regulations.

That's the answer.

You know, it is things need to be safe, and it's super important, but there's a line.

There's a line there, and I want to know which code would come more in line with keeping things affordable because we talk about a lot in this community, but we talk out of both sides of our mouth.

Because we talk about a lot in this community, but we talk out of both sides of our mouth.

We don't we don't go down that path.

We go down more of this, more of this, more of this.

So thank you, Councilmember.

I I wanted to pick up on a uh a point that uh council member Fredericks made in that the different codes that we use.

Is there an effort to bring them all together and have uh transparency about what the code what the codes are here in Rochester, regardless of which standard it comes from, so that when new uh developers, builders uh are here, or somebody is converting a single family home to rental that they can say these are the this is how I comply from an ease of regulation standpoint.

Yeah, I would say that's what we're setting out to do with this code update.

It's based on the IPMC, which is a standard that folks should know and expect in some communities, just adopt the IPMC standard.

This is a way of us also pulling in some of the state-specific code requirements.

So we're trying to merge the two in this respect uh for clarity.

Uh so that's what I would say.

That's what we're setting out to do to provide clarity and balancing between those two guidances.

And how is that going to be then communicated to the end user?

Sure.

Uh I I would say we've been communicating it all along, it reflects our pre-inspection checklist as well.

What you're seeing isn't isn't uh large changes in actually what we would look at.

It's just written in a way that's more predictable and clarifying where those sources are.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Keene.

Yeah, I wanted to clarify.

You talked about if it's owner occupied and they have a renter, is that a rental unit or is that a different scenario?

That's what I would clarify.

If the owner does not live at the property, then uh certificate is required.

One can have uh roommates in theory, yes, without requiring a rental.

Okay, that's that's always checking on you didn't have a it wasn't a way of saying, and then there are no rental restrictions other than uh for an owner-occupied having a paying roommate.

Correct.

There are no requirements if an owner occupied lives at their property but has roommates.

Okay.

Um I'm gonna kind of cut through some of this stuff, but uh what is the number of like renter complaints that drive inspections?

Is that a is that like a two percent or like a we would like to get back to you on that?

That's a great question.

And it's uh it's a big number that fluctuates.

So we could I think we'd like to get back to you on that data to be specific.

I and I also kind of I'm struggling with this input from my peers here as far as like let's make it the the problem here with policy, a lot of times you uh someone will approach this with the mindset that we have to make sure the evil landlord doesn't exist in Rochester and we set up a set of policies to assuming they're all that way, and then we create trouble for most of our most of our good ones.

But the flip side is you know, you can also do the thing of saying, like, oh no, we assume everybody's good, and then we end up with these bad situations.

So on those two extremes, what where do you think we're where do you think we error?

With with how our code is written today, yes, the spectrum of evil that's a great question.

I I mean I would say the context I have is our original code uh was uh customized and was pretty restricting, I would say.

So we have looked to try to better align with other standards to meet somewhere in the middle.

Um so it is a tough policy kind of balance, but today I think that's us trying not to be more restrictive than we are able to, as the state building code tells us we cannot.

So my input and what I thought we were doing back in 2023 was trying to come up with a system that said, if you're running good places, you're not we're gonna read we're gonna move out the inspections, we're going to like give you grace and credit for being good good operators.

I thought that's what was going on.

I think that really is the goal, and that that two-year thing might get down, like if I looked at it in a couple years, you might be in that 60% in the three and four years.

So that would be a good direction.

My reading of this is I think we should assume good outcomes, but when we don't get them, I think we should be very uh punitive.

But we should assume good outputs until we don't get them.

But then I think this is where it's different, then then I think we should be punitive.

That's that's my input.

I want to pick up on a question that comes or re-emphasize a question that uh council member keen asked, which is I think if we get the data on where the complaints are coming from and can use that in really then getting a handle on you know where we are in that spectrum, and can then adapt our incentives and penalties to uh to fit you know what we're seeing.

So I want to encourage that council member.

Yeah, I guess I think that's a great point, and also just looking beyond just the address, uh, but looking at ownership.

Uh if we see a particularly bad actor across multiple spaces to take that into consideration.

Uh just a comment.

Uh I guess uh one clarification on Councilmember Keene's um question about roommates.

Uh what point does that move from roommates to a separate unit?

It's also a rather gray question.

Um we have encountered situations once again where properties uh look and feel like they're operating in separate units.

So it really sort of depends, and we're looking for separate facilities and separate entrances, and we're looking for conversion, uh, and it's gonna come to our attention if we're not there.

Sounds like council member answer for that is a lease.

Sure.

If they sign a lease, that's a tenant, that's not a roommate.

We still might not necessarily require rental license, even if uh an owner decides to write.

That's where it's really great stuff like that.

Because to me, if they sign a lease, that's a separate that's a tenant.

And today I'm a roommate.

Um Sean's gonna come live with me for a while.

He ain't signing a lease.

You're not living with me.

Yeah, and today that's that wouldn't be enough for us to do that.

And I guess I'm just looking at uh like what is successful, and I see these checklists as well.

This is a different topic, but related to our uh strategic priorities.

We talked about housing access and accessible units, but often that can be a binary yes or no, this unit is accessible or it's not, it doesn't capture what features would fall into an accessibility matrix.

And I guess I'm curious as should we be successful in moving more properties into that three and four year reinspection cycle.

Are there opportunities to better capture um accessible features and better communicate that to potential residents?

Because I I've heard that there's often a mismatch between available accessible units and the people who are looking for specific key features, but the more granular look at what features make it accessible is the challenge.

Yeah, we're also familiar with that experience and recognize that that's specifically been clear uh uh asked for community development to respond to in the city's actions plan.

So we are looking at ways that we can capture that information, and then we'll be brought back to council.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Paul Mill.

Well, thank you.

Um I'd be remiss if I didn't say in the original that I remember the housing code was two pieces of paper button back.

And so um I I like the I code.

No, um well, probably maybe when you become 1990.

Um thank you for throwing me off here.

Um I like the I codes, and I'm assuming about the rest of the I codes that Minnesota has that you can go to the ICOD and read it, you don't have to buy it.

Otherwise, it's like an 80 dollar document.

And you and I have some emails back and forth.

Um, one of them is 713-14 is opening protections according to the state fire code, and in I don't want to have to go out and buy the state fire code.

So you're saying that the fire marshal will somehow be able to link that so that we can find that.

The other thing that you've said is that correct me if I'm words wrong.

Um, you've said that every time we do a code violation on a we we write the code violation so that landlord can go, it's not like Dan just made something up, that it's actually a code section.

Um this appeals saying then 7613.

You have in there, it it says 10 days, and I know some landlords are troubled by that because the mail doesn't typically come, and I might have to get a bid or get something in your answer.

Was well, from a building code perspective, they want to move fast, but but if if I have a landlord and I get this letter at day eight, do I just send you a note saying I want to extend this and give me a 30-day grace or 60-day grace before we have an appeal?

So a couple of clarifications just for everyone to know.

We have a board of appeals and they see appeals for the building code, the fire code, and the housing code.

And so we're referring to uh building code that says we have to hold a well two twofold.

Um the appeal must be requested by the applicant within 10 days of a determination, and then we have to hold the hearing within 10 days of filing that.

So we've um that's mostly uh for properties under construction, I would say, so that we're not delaying construction.

Um, and we generally work with the applicant to respect extensions to your point because it's in everyone's best interest.

So I would I guess I would say we haven't we don't have very frequent appeals, we have them on an annual basis, and in that respect, we have honored some uh written extension or process for that to your point.

Does that answer your question?

It does, and then the uh to go back onto the appeal part of it, we charge for them, and I don't think it's a right to charge for that appeal.

I think that makes it a difficulty for people.

I think that makes it a difficulty for people, and I'd also like to see the city council get a uh report back on what what is being appealed, and so if there's a large area that we're being appealed on and what were the the turnout on it, I think that'd be just an informational item for the city council.

I don't know.

I think $75 can be a hard shift, and most people will say, Well, they're not going to give it to me anyway.

Um I think having no fee with it makes more sense, especially since we don't have very many of them.

I'm gonna I'll finish it up.

Um, I'm gonna go back to what Mr.

Miller kind of hinted at, and I think this might be a different way of doing this.

And um, if we have a standard for for for rental, the landlords know that instead of licensing the units, why don't we just license the landlords?

Because what Mr.

Miller is kind of getting at if I own five houses and this one's a dog, um, I can't go with these four and punish that landlord.

But but if I have a landlord that has licensed, then we know who to contact and we know uh what it is, and we don't have to worry about doing inspections.

I'd say receiving what you're saying, and I would say this also aligns with the specific uh uh task within the action plan uh to take a look at our uh rental processes and specific calls for action for uh making contact information more public.

So I'd say this is something we will be addressing and bringing back to you.

We may have some software challenges with your specific recommendation, but I think the spirit of what you're both getting at will be coming back to council this year.

Well, I think what it does is that if it gives the tenant, if they have a problem, they can get a hold of you and say, hey, I have no running water, then that's a violation.

You get a whole landlord and say what's going on here, and you can kind of track that.

But but I think going, especially now that we have all these new units and everything going on, it's really I'm assuming most of your your correction letters are none.

Um, and if we have fire code in there or we have fire sprinklers in there, the the fire marshal is already doing his inspections every year.

And and so from a safety perspective, that's what we're going after is safety.

I think thinking getting rid of doing individual inspections and having an inspector go through and look at the closet and look at the the bathroom and all those other things.

I I think that the tenant can do that and look at our standard and say this is our standard.

Here's what you're saying.

It sounds like a policy recommendation here.

That's a policy recommendation.

Councilmember Keene.

Yeah, I know this isn't exactly on our topic for today, but I am interested in the fact that you said like that um their rental licenses 6,000 and then there's 23,000 up about 300.

But a lot of these are, and we we've talked about this before, how many of these are the single family homes?

I know our coalition and our housing things, we've been trying to do more home ownership, and with the same time we're wrestling with the idea that most of them are getting purchased and added into the rental market.

And I know that we're not talking about like we're talking about now right now when they're rental licenses, but I'm also gonna talk about like is this a positive thing for quality of life in Rochester, or is this actually causing us more problems on the housing coalition and the housing direction of having more home ownership?

And I'd like to think of what ideas we could have to um stem that from happening is for more and more of our more of our entry-level housing market.

And I'll have a similar response to that specifically called out in your action plan and what we plan to do is provide um data of what's going on, what we're seeing in Rochester, similar to what you saw today.

Examples from other communities and probably policy considerations to your point.

So we hear that in that we've provided this year.

Councilmember Palmer.

I would push back on the word most.

I don't know what the number is, and I think that that's blown out of proportion by some people, and I think some facts would be nice to know.

But I will say if you've looked at the federal um legislative stuff that's going through, they're looking at corporate landlords who own 250 unit, 250 single family homes or or more, and I think the state's above the same about a level that they the state really doesn't know how to do this, and they're gonna come down with a some kind of a recommendation, whether or not they do, I don't know.

And I agree with councilmember Palmer.

We we don't have our arms around it.

I I've met with the community development on this, and is it is it you know, six percent is it this and and we don't know right now, uh, but it is something that I'd like to make sure we get our arms around.

And I and anecdotally I've heard that it is growing.

Councilmember Frederick, another thing that needs to be discussed is is the privacy fact and the intrusiveness of inspections.

A lot of people don't like having their places went through.

It is a it is a large source of contention, and especially if there's a reinspection for something, you know, two, three times back in a person's unit, it's excessive.

And you know, once every four years, that's fine.

That's fine.

I I would I'm not much for being reactive to things.

I do like the proactive piece, but with this exception, if there is a problem, person is going to complain as a as a person that owns a property, it's in your best interest to take care of that person to take care of the property to all this.

It's in your best interest to take care of that person to take care of the property to all this.

Nick's absolutely right.

Is there bad landlords?

Of course there is.

You know who they are.

You know exactly who they are.

And you know, being more proactive with people like that, but for the for the people you know that are doing a good job, a reactive approach would be okay.

It would be okay.

Because if I don't want to turn this into a personal thing, but when I get a call, I'm over there the same day, sometimes within the 20 minutes.

Okay.

So that's the level people want to operate on.

But just like any other business out there, you have to provide service, you have to take care of people, you have to care.

And if you're not doing those things, you don't got a business.

You just don't.

So there's the other end of that spectrum, you can go all the way the other way and say the person that maybe runs more of a loose entity.

If they have even 10 rentals, and they run it really on the cheap end of the spectrum, they're still providing a service for people that want to rent a home for 500 bucks.

There's not there's you know, you start remodeling that whole thing, getting it all the code, everything like that, all of a sudden there is 1500, and that person that's renting the 500 place can't afford it anymore.

It's a real thing.

So there is a place for each person.

There is different living situations for each person, and I like to see it be up to that person without sacrificing their safety where they want to live.

Because it's there needs we say we want to be everyone welcome, all encompassing in this community.

Well, let's do that then.

All right.

Anything else on this topic?

Thank you, council member.

Little fashion, sorry about that.

No, that's what we're here for.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Oh, do you want to do next steps?

Real quick.

So next step we want to have to return to city council.

Council member Palmer asked about this.

Yep, yeah.

So next steps are to return to city council for formal adoption.

We're hoping to get on the April 6th agenda.

It will be a council item for first reading and public comment.

Uh, and a goal of June 1st, 2026 for an effective date for this updated housing code.

Uh, this is still a draft and still pending final city attorney office review as well.

Council member I think we should have a public hearing.

I don't know how the other members feel here, but I think we should get renters involved, and I think we should have a public at least chime in on it.

I am absolutely in favor of uh public hearing.

So you would like to re notice the public yeah, that's required notice here.

Thank you.

Great job.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys.

Next up, we have Councilmember Doran on our Any Path Home Udate.

Yeah, I'll try to move quickly through the presentation here.

As you know, that uh we signed on to a charter for the Any Path Home Initiative in the mid-part of last calendar year.

Um, after we signed on to the charter, there was uh um there's an executive director who was hired, and then that executive uh director simply did not work out.

So we uh the initiative was left in a place wondering how we're going to proceed forward and and what our next steps were, and that's what I really want to share with you today.

So here's our 2025 progress report.

We finalized our leadership council.

So uh that leadership council includes uh agencies who provide direct service to those experiencing uh homelessness, involves representatives from the main uh mayo clinic, um uh from the county and from the city.

Uh, we also talked about how that leadership council was going to function, and I'll get to there in a second.

We also formed operationalized work groups.

I'll I'll fill that fill you in on those uh later.

A couple of the ones that are um active and doing really great work so far, our public space solutions work group, and I'll tell you a little bit about their work uh there, and then um uh our steering committee, which is agency group, uh the agency work group that also does a continuum of care conversation uh quickly.

Uh and then that's where you see that uh implemented uh any path home case conferencing.

Uh so this case conferencing happens by a specific name by uh uh uh by name list.

So instead of just looking at people's statistics, they get to know individuals there if they're individualized needs.

This case conferencing, all agencies gather together.

Uh they break down the silo model that has been um part of the um people experiencing homelessness uh continuum of care, I guess, and and really breaks down those walls so they they work collaborative collaboratively with the goal of getting everyone in housing here in home.

So the mission in the past few months here's what we've really worked on.

We've um we've uh redone our charter.

We heard that information from this council as well as other uh agencies as well, that we needed to uh do uh some continued work on that charter language, really laying out expectations.

Uh we did not get to the point of of uh of laying out specific outcomes.

Uh that's that's still in process.

Um that charter work also looks like you there, council member.

So when it comes to the council, will that go back to in our case our this body or the county, you know, who then will ratify the that charter.

Yep.

I have not uh completely verified this with city administrator Zelms, but our hope would be that that our revised charter, which was uh supplied to you in our packet would come back before the city council for adoption again.

All member agencies are are redoing that process.

Thank you.

Um in that charter we clarified structure, um, and then uh I'll talk about that in a second, and then uh decision making process and authority.

Also, we decided uh who is going to how we were gonna go forward as an initiative, uh, particularly who is going to lead uh the leadership council, which is really the authoritative body in this structure.

Um, and it is the recommended recommendation of the leadership council that the city and county both take roles in that leadership, uh avoiding any direct conflicts of interest with direct agencies.

Um our framework is shared by core values and purposes in the charter.

You can read those over um and we can discuss them when it comes before the council for approval, uh, maybe structured uh decision making and then um member responsibilities.

In uh in the charter lays out six working groups.

First, the oversight uh with the leadership council.

This is the body that will handle uh finances, it will make all direct um decisions about oversight, currently has 10 members, uh city counter live expertise, so members from the table here in this community are on there, the homeless response agencies and other community leaders.

Uh the leadership council's role would be to assist with obtaining resources, ensuring the use of best practices, and ensure we are not making decisions about people most impacted by them without them.

That's why it was important to us have uh people with lived experience on the leadership council.

Then you have the steering committee, implementation of the local homeless response system, agency leadership that oversees operational functions, identifying resources needed to build the uh ideal response system, and then provide accountability for our stated outcomes.

Case conferencing work group, this is the folks who are managing that by name list.

They connect individuals to housing options and uh consists of direct service staff.

Uh, one of the other documents contained in your packet today was a snapshot of uh 2026.

Uh that includes a number of of folks who are on that by name list.

Uh that document needed to be revised after it was submitted for a publication.

So that number is closer to 297 individual folks are on that by name list.

Through uh January and February, 30 unique individuals came off that list, but we added 30 additional individuals.

So we're operating at kind of a net zero gain on decreasing that number uh uh of the list, but that's not saying that through case conferencing, we haven't had some success in getting people housed.

Okay, does that make sense?

Also, uh some other interesting factors that you're gonna see on that list is uh the largest group experiencing uh homelessness in our community.

Our demographics are tending to view uh skew younger than people would would maybe imagine.

So I think on that, it's either 25 to 35 or 35 to 40 are our largest groups.

There's a large percentage of the population that is in the BIPOC community.

Um the intention of the AnyPath Home Initiative is to give you a monthly snapshot like this, and also to share that with the public.

Um if we keep going on, um, another great functioning group is the public space solutions group that's running by uh Miss Edens from our uh community development office.

Uh they are working on uh gathering and sharing community insights from businesses, law enforcement, and lived experience, outreach and shelter providers.

They dedicate collaboration and personal centered actions towards addressing community safety and public spaces intersecting with people experiencing homelessness, and they create actionable solutions to help decrease unsheltered homelessness and ensure everyone feels safe and welcome in our community.

So far, uh that public space solutions working group has been focused on uh the blocks kind of surrounding uh the landing, where we've gotten a lot of uh community concerns about public safety, um concerns from uh a budding business owners and property owners about uh just impacts of the outhouse unhoused community um on their own private property and and in those public spaces.

It's also important to note that a key partner in this public space solutions work group has been RPD and the CAT uh team.

Um Captain Hodgman uh has been invaluable, Terry Dose has been uh invaluable in that work as well.

We are also that public spaces group is also spreading now further downtown uh as well.

Uh community alliance, this is just outside community members engaging and learning and connection around uh homelessness.

Um the first really community alliance event is happening this Thursday, uh March 12th, uh, as the AnyPath Home Initiative will be discussed at the landing C2 forum uh at Autumn Ridge Church.

So if you need information about that event or would like to attend, just let me know and I'll get you more specifics.

I'll be representing the city on a on a panel discussion uh for that about the work that we've been engaged in.

And then community partner members, these are non-direct service uh providers, uh, and the plan is to connect these non-direct service partner members to the AnyPath Home Initiative through partner membership opportunities that's kind of laid out in the in the charter that was provided to as well.

And these are folks who have a dedicated commitment of core values and mission alignment with community facing active support and shared purpose.

This is what this whole thing looks like so far.

The idea is to uh work together together and collaborating to identify who is experiencing homelessness.

Uh, this was difficult to do as member agencies were un uh running as silos because we had no indication of uh someone say someone uh came to the landing for um services, that person wasn't then being tracked by Catholic charities or by the Salvation Army at the same time.

So it's really this collaborative work group, and then as we gain the identity of these people, it's then working collaboratively too to understand what their needs are to have housing, but housing that is sustainable.

Then that collaborative group works together to figure out what action steps need to happen from a system-wide perspective to get that person uh connected with the resources they need to attain housing, and which specific agency is going to partner with that person to attain housing.

So, again, in that in that um in that example of the landing in the salvation army.

It could be that uh someone shows up to the landing looking for housing, but the landing has no programs that meet their needs, and that person in the past could have been left behind.

Now, because the landing and the salvation army are talking about the programmatic offerings that they have to assist people to uh to achieve housing, the landing would then say, okay, salvation, I can work with this individual to get them uh the resources they need.

And that's where that match comes in, as you see later on in that slide.

It's one of the questions.

Can you council member uh Craig?

Yep.

Thanks.

Great presentation, Councilmember Darning.

Um Great Information question, and you know you know where I'm going with this one.

What is the biggest disparity you're finding with let's call it transitional housing?

Because we both know there's a large group that needs a lot of services to be able to live.

Maybe never independently, so on and so forth.

But what is the biggest barrier you're finding our group that you're maybe having trouble getting connected?

Uh that's it's a very complicated question.

Uh so there are our definite people who need a lot of services to to achieve housing, right?

So a barrier to that has been identifying which agencies can provide those needs, right?

So that's a huge barrier.

There are going to be people who are never going to want to live in housing as well.

We realize that need.

We have not yet come up with a tangible solution for that.

That is a large, large, large systematic problem.

So those are the kind of discussions we want to start to have.

We've been so focused on coming up and revising a charter operating bylaws, financial policies.

Right.

So we're going to engage in that work.

We're not quite there yet, is how I would answer that.

When you're ready, I'll be waiting.

Okay.

Can we get to the proposed city role?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

So the proposed city role is that after a while, so skip the case study.

It worked for someone.

That was the case study.

I was gonna give you the narrative.

So the leadership council recommendation of city county roles moving forward, and these are the responsibilities.

First, that the city of Rochester serves as the communication support organization for any path home.

This includes all community relations and communications about any path home and developing and implement communication strategies around priorities.

This is a big role.

The idea would be that any path home as a collective would generate the content.

It would be utilizing city structures to push that content out to keep the community informed about how this initiative is going.

Then that the city uh the city would take over the leadership council chair position, and that is going to be held by an elected official.

So I've been operating in that capacity since December, late November, early December.

And that that city that leadership council chair would be the community spokesperson for any path home.

So again, utilizing city communications department to aid in that work, but also going and making themselves available for civic uh other civic opportunities to talk about uh the initiative, right?

Um then the proposed county role is operational support.

They have all the data and they have been uh functioning in this space for a long time.

Why not continue to utilize that expertise?

So uh again, providing coordination and administrative support, supporting data infrastructure and systems alignment, facilitating communication across partners.

Uh the we created an AnyPath home coordinator position that was uh that uh was approved uh by our county partners, so they're creating a new FTE position to fill this coordinator position.

This person is going to ensure that the accuracy of data coordinate the case conferencing worship that happens, facilitate property manager engagement, supervise an outreach team that is meeting with those or going out into the community and meeting those who are experiencing homelessness.

Uh and again, like I said, it was approved in the county and uh by the county in February of 2026, moving towards hiring this position.

The update today was that that hopefully that coordinator will be in this position by mid-May at the latest.

Uh right now, the assistant associate director of housing Courtney Dumpstead is is taking this work on top of her other work as well.

So that is the presentation, and I'm happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

Well, thank you, uh, council member, and uh we'll go to uh Mr.

Well, how do we expect any path home to show up in the Thursday night meeting with the landing?

Uh the whole meeting is about any path home.

It's all members of uh it's all member agencies who are presenting their specific programs, things like that, and then how we are working together collaboratively.

Good.

And uh uh answer as short as you can, uh, understanding every person is an individual.

What's a typical homelessness cycle?

So that's in that uh that's in that uh document that we sent out before.

Um I'd have to pull up the document to say that specifically, right?

I don't want to miss, I don't want to fumble that, but I was I would refer you to the document.

Okay.

Council member Palmer.

Thank you.

The mayor's not here, but she literally dragged the county into doing homelessness and the e-being shelter and stuff, but and we have supported that.

Um I'm gonna be um cynical here.

Um three years ago we sat here at the bail off civic auditorium, we heard all this great stuff, now we're doing this other stuff.

There's some problems I have in what you've written already, and and um, and one of them is is that uh everyone in Officer County has a home.

You know, and the definition of home can be almost anything.

Um I don't agree, agree with that.

The other thing on your core values, you have housing as a right, and I, for one, don't believe it's a right.

Um, and and you're also in your core values blaming the system failures.

Um I'm not particularly sure that I can blame the system for everything.

I think you have some personal responsibility to for your actions, and I and so I I'm not supportive of that.

Um I've been a big pusher on this is that the county gets the funding for this.

Um I really don't want to see any city funding going to this.

We already have two million dollars going to the from the police department, which is a large amount of money, and our private businesses downtown are spending a lot of money um on homelessness, and it's not being very productive.

And so um those are just my my my things when you come to us with it that uh uh those are things that I I do not support.

Okay, council member Keane.

Yes, I wanted to just clarify.

I I have four different places here where I wrote down where there's uh city responsibility associated with any path.

Number one is leadership, number two is police and cat, including uh the social social welfare in the streets.

Number three is housing, and then number four is communication.

Um housing will be a goal that's not where very well defined now.

CAT is a member, uh not even a member agency of any path home.

They are working in in conjunction with public space, so they're not on that on that leadership level at this point, but the other two aspects that you you uh talked about in terms of city involvement are very much spelled out in the charter.

Okay.

I I'm still struggling a little bit because I I I studied some of this uh bit when it was towards zero and and some of those different things.

I recall the studies from Milwaukee and I think it was also Houston, was a structure sort of like any path, but it was like uh authority, not just a c a collective, and somebody would assign something and they would fund something to be done.

Um this it's unclear to me that any path has any authority over any organization in the group, or am I missing that there really is like a structure to this that we're going to break down and like give responsibility?

Yeah, so some of that will be spelled out in a bylaw, bylaw and financial policy document uh where we will actually be dispersing funds to make people responsible to implement those funds uh to do specific things associated with housing, right?

So the the charter that's going to be presented is the overarching we agree to work on this together.

Implementation of that work will be spelled out more clearly in the bylaws and the financial policies that are still under review.

Okay.

I mean, if if any path home is a communications in a way to everyone to talk, that's probably that's reasonable and it might solve some problems.

But I'm actually looking for some sort of structure that it's more of like you when you have a leadership thing and then you have these other core other teams.

I think of like um authority of reassigning things, and I'm not sure.

Yeah, the leadership group that's gonna do that.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

In terms of internal structure, leadership council is that ultimate authority with the sub-work groups, the leadership group is going to get reporting from those subgroups and then assign other tasks down to that subgroup.

You're gonna ask them to work on things, or are you going to truly say you don't work on this one, you work on this one?

I I don't I don't get the you so you okay, good.

I I believe so, yes.

That's the intention.

All right.

All right, that's what I'm looking for with this.

It's more of a like if there really is this, like I I think House Member Palmer is right that there's counties got this lead responsibility.

I'm good with the city taking some responsibility, especially on leadership, especially on the the uh enforcement with the feet on the street.

Yeah, and we're involved whether we want to be or not.

Um housing stuff is I'm still trying to get my arm around that in the communications.

If we can help with that, good, but I'm I'm also looking for some sort of and I'm gonna call it for lack of word better words, control over the different players to try to organize that work so that it's structured instead of random.

Yeah, you're talking about a system, and that's what we're trying to implement.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, so uh I'm gonna pick up on uh what council member Palmer uh said, but first disagree with him.

I do come from a place that I think housing should be a human right, but I do want to follow up on kind of the funding.

So we the county, it sounds like they're funding a position.

We are contributing communication support.

Correct.

And so I think as we move forward, I think, and and Councilmember Palmer mentioned the two million dollars that that RPD has uh said that they put into it.

I'd like to see an update on that.

And so understanding more kind of where the funding streams that the public uh this the city and county come from in contributing this and then you mentioned grants or funds.

I didn't I don't understand where those are coming from or is there is there going to be a grant making function?

Where does the funding for beyond what the county contributes and the city contribute come to the organization?

Yeah, we're gonna seek outside funding for the any pack home initiative, whether that's corporate funding, uh uh large benefactor factor funding, all that kind of stuff.

So that's the inflow of capital.

The other component of that would be used for operating operating and then supporting programs that are going to uh uh achieve our goals, things like that.

Uh in terms of the first part of your question was then a grant making policy to specific agencies.

Is that what you're looking for?

Well, I I understand it now.

If you're you're you're yeah, you're looking for major funding sources then to that will delineate those funding through through metrics that are being.

So I guess more any future clarity to city contributions and corresponding county contributions, which we haven't gotten.

Okay.

Um right now that county has about five hundred thousand dollars in the initiative.

Any further questions?

Well, one, I just want to thank you for your leadership on this and uh your your leadership beyond your role as a council member.

I know you've put a lot into this and and are committed to continuing to to uh do that.

So uh so congratulations on that.

And I'm going to go to council member Frederick, President of the Stoma Thunder.

I was just gonna say thanks for doing this, Van.

You can say it too.

I'm gonna thanks for doing this, Dan.

And what I what I'm hearing is that versus going somewhere and and and people saying, oh, I don't know where to go for that.

Maybe try here, maybe try here.

We're gonna have a one-stop shop.

It's gonna be all under one hood.

We know where to go for X, Y, Z, and you're gonna have your ducks in a row so you can get somebody an answer not.

Well, I don't know, try this.

I don't know, try this.

That's what I'm that's what I'm hearing.

That's the ultimate goal.

I like it.

I like it.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Dan.

30 seconds.

All right.

She said your next study.

I don't think we're 30 seconds.

Um City Council learning session.

Um trying that again.

Um March 23rd um at the Rochester Support Center, so up at RCTC's campus.

Um so please do not come here, go to RCTC's campus.

Um and um that will be with Bethany Von Steinberg's um strikes and leadership.

Um also did just want to note that you do have an upcoming council meeting next week.

Um it is so far shaping up to be mostly consent agenda and then a public hearing item related to what you probably already read about in the newspaper, um, which is conduit bond issuance uh by the mail clinic.

Um and of course it's always up to you whether consent remains consent.

Thank you.

We are here.

Thank you.

Thank you.