Good morning.

I'd like to call to order the Historic and Design Review Commission compliance and technical advisory board for Friday, November 21st, 2025.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis Garcia.

Here.

Here.

Spiller.

Here.

Fullerton?

Here.

Pollock.

Here.

Vasquez?

Here.

Thank you.

Translation Services, please.

Good morning.

Buenos días.

Las personas que requieren escuchar esta audiencia in Espanyol.

Pas it for favor a la cabina de atrás al lado derecho para que les proportionemos una parado interpretación.

Muchas gracias.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

The compliance and technical advisory board is an advisory board appointed by the city council.

I'm Jason Voss Vasquez, acting chair, and Juanita Ciproveda is the chair.

It is a the function of the board to advise the city manager and all relevant city departments concerning certain applications for permits for properties in historic districts and landmarks.

In considering whether to recommend approval or disapproval of an application for a certificate of appropriateness, the board shall be guided by the city's Unified Development Code and design guidelines and standards that have been adopted by the city council.

An appeal of a decision by an administrative official can be filed in accordance with the city's Unified Development Code.

If anyone present wishes to speak in favor or an opposition to any item on today's agenda, please sign up on the public comments sheet if you haven't already.

It is not necessary to sign up if you are the owner of representative for a project on the agenda.

You will be called on as the case is called.

Case representatives will be given no more than 15 minutes to present their case with an additional two minutes to respond to public comments.

Speakers for or opposed to a case will be limited to two minutes each.

Speakers may also sign up to yield their two minutes to another speaker who has signed up.

Anyone who is yielding their time must be present at the time the speaker is called upon.

Speakers will be called upon in the order in which they are signed up.

Following public testimony, any commissioner may call upon any speaker to respond to further questions.

Approval by the board does not take the place of any type of permit.

Permits must be obtained for all work.

Certificates of appropriateness for work approved by the board will be emailed to you within 10 days.

No work of any type is to be started without obtaining the appropriate city permits after a certificate of appropriateness has been issued by the Office of Historic Preservations.

At this time, please silence your cell phones.

Yes.

Abstain.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Um we have our cases pulled up on the screen here.

Um just a quick note that items number seven and nine have both been withdrawn and will not be heard today.

We don't have any public comments on those items.

Um so at this point we can bring our attention to items one through five, which is our consent agenda.

Um we do have a couple of voicemails for items on consent, so we'll start with number two.

Chairperson for the Historic Neighborhood Review Committee of Dignity Hill calling in on case number 2025-293-824 North time.

We do not agree with staff's recommendation.

Based on the notes in section A of the findings, it is deemed that the original roof was probably a wood shake shingle roof, and by 1931, the structure features a standing seam metal roof, which is more than likely the existing metal roof we see today.

Since the house never had an asphalt shingle roof to begin with.

Thank you.

Hello, this is Louis Francois, Chairperson of the Dignity Hill Historic Neighborhood Review Committee calling in on case number 269, 922 Nolan Street.

Even though the applicant did construct the gate properly, we do have one question.

Are the gateboards supposed to be horizontal rather than vertical?

That's the question that we had.

In addition, this is the same house that was supposed to have had the doors replaced and the columns changed so that the rock at the bottom of the columns was removed to meet historic guidelines.

Based on the pictures provided, this never happened.

What are the consequences for developers or owners who do not follow through with required changes to their design?

Thank you.

I'll note there's a letter in your packets for that item as well.

I think it says the same thing, but that concludes public comments for consent items.

Great, thank you.

Are there any commissioners wishing to pull any of the agenda items on the consent side?

I would like to um pull items two and five, please.

Thank you.

Any additional?

Okay.

Thank you.

Is there a motion for the remainder of the consent agenda items for approval?

I move that we accept the consent items number one, three, and four as listed.

Second.

Thank you.

Can every roll call, please?

Davis.

Abstain.

Garcia.

Aye.

Bergard?

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton.

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

If your address is 332 Adams Street, 619 Barb Street, 1900 West Weesatch Avenue.

Your case has been approved, and you do not need a uh stay for the remainder of the hearing.

Member of staff will be in touch with you, and your certificate of appropriateness will be mailed to you within 10 days.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um looks like we'll go to 824 North Pine agenda consent agenda item two.

Is the applicant for this item here?

Sir, if you want to come up to the podium and introduce yourself.

Good morning.

My name is Reynolds, owner and GC of the property.

Great, thank you.

You want to state your case?

Yeah.

Uh you don't have to hold that one.

Yeah.

Just trying to change the the clearly oxidized metal roof into an asphalt shingle, much like everybody else on the block.

Uh I did hear the comment that was uh sent over to y'all about some wood shakes on the roof originally.

You can see your little bit of where the wood shake was.

It was very old, it's very rotten.

Uh but we're just trying to maybe bring it back up to be a nice, nice building.

Much like the one in front of us that has, I think, an onyx black onyx black asphalt shingle.

We're pretty much just trying to match that that same style.

No profile is to be changed, no no slopes, no nothing, nothing crazy like that.

We're just trying to get it back to a good shape.

Thank you.

Uh, we'll move to questions.

Um, is there any commissioners on my left who have any questions about this?

Okay.

On my right.

Hello.

I have a couple of questions.

Uh the first one being you say that the the majority of the houses on the street have asphalt shingle roofs.

Right, yes, ma'am and um.

Do you know if they originally had wood shake as well?

Or yeah, I wouldn't know, man.

I I know for example, the one to my left has a metal, but I couldn't tell if there was any uh wood shakes at one point.

I believe the one in the front is uh it's a beautiful house, the one in the front, so I kind of keep up with it every now and then.

I never saw a wood shake shingle on it, but I honestly couldn't speak to the fact of whether it did or not.

And then my next question would be um why you would go with the choice of asphalt shingle roof versus replacing the uh the metal roof.

The way that I had submitted some renderings over for the house to be finished, I just think it's gonna be a better look of how we're gonna finish this.

It's just got like a alabaster white look with some iron ore uh trims.

So an onyx black asphalt shingle, I think will look.

I know a a metal roof might last longer, but the way uh that we uh install our asphalt shingles, I mean we're not going to make it look bad.

It's gonna look a lot better.

And um if I could also ask why onyx black versus something more in keeping with the color that's there now?

You mean more like a grayish tone?

Or white whites.

I don't see I hadn't even thought about it.

Uh I think color black is just more in style uh for our for our times, but I'll say I haven't given the thought to a white yeah, white shingle.

So the shingles on the roofs uh on the street are also a dark color?

They're the dark colors or your uh dark grays.

All right.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

I have a question for staff.

Is were you able to observe um other homes in the surrounding area that that also had I guess the asphalt shingle in various colors or what was the majority of colors?

Well I'll just I'll say this.

Um our policy for roofing materials is based on what's appropriate for the style of house, not necessarily what it had originally.

Um so most of these houses that were kind of turn of the century Victorians for sure all had shake roofs originally.

Um over time, um, just because of the maintenance involved with that.

Um materials have been replaced.

Very it's very common that they would add standing seam or uh soldered seam uh roofs over directly over the wood shake, as it was in this situation.

Um other times it would have been asphalt or some sort of um composite product until modern day composition shingles were available.

So um our you know, staff's only finding here is that a shingle roof is appropriate for the style.

Uh we don't get into the color um with our guidelines.

Um and it it's really not about matching other houses nearby either.

It's really about what's appropriate for the style of the house.

Thank you.

Any further questions discussion?

If not, can I ask for a motion, please?

I make a motion that we uh accept the staff findings and the staff recommendations on this.

I second that motion.

Do we have a roll call, please?

Davis, aye.

Garcia?

Nay.

Brigard?

Nay.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton.

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

And Vasquez.

Nay.

Motion carries.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Please work with staff on the next steps.

Um item number five, nine two two Nolan Street.

Um, Mr.

Chair, did you want me to read the whole into the record?

Please go ahead.

Okay.

CTAP case number 2025-269 uh 922 Nolan Street.

The applicant's requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to construct a side carport with a driveway gate.

Staff recommends approval of the request based on findings A through D with the following stipulations.

One that the applicant meet all setback standards as required by city zoning and obtain a variance from the board of adjustment if applicable.

The property owner Drew Warwick is here in person, and um staff's also available to answer questions based on uh commissioner questions and the questions listed in the letter.

Thank you.

You want to come up to the podium and introduce yourself and state your case uh good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Drew Warwick.

Oh, sorry.

Okay.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Drew Warwick.

Um, this is actually retroactive.

Uh if you can see, um I live at 922 Nolan Street, and uh been there for three almost three years now.

Uh so it's for a carport and a gate.

Um the one that's what I'm looking seeking for approval.

The one comment I do have on the voicemail.

Uh those two things that the person was talking about out of compliance, that was not me.

That was a person who owned the house before me.

And the they're both in compliance now.

So it was stone to remove from the pillars.

You can see in the Google maps pictures, but it doesn't exist there anymore.

And then the city had me replaced, it wasn't the doors that had to be replaced, the windows had to be replaced.

It was they were listed as frosted windows, which is factually incorrect.

They were uh flumish glass windows, but I paid to get those removed and replaced.

So the doors are still there, but I out of my own pocket when I bought this house, I was found in violation for the house I bought.

So I actually those are both remedied already.

So uh here for any questions.

Uh the gate is for basically uh two reasons protect uh the carport and gate, uh sun protection as well as hill protection.

And then the gate is uh Nolan Street is a very busy thoroughfare.

Um and it's basically I don't have a garage.

Uh and my I don't have a gate to my yard.

And I'm many times at night, I'm gone a lot, but many times at night, people walk into my yard uh just last month, someone was looking through my windows.

I have a ring camera.

They look looking through my windows at night.

People have tried to open my door to my car at night.

Um so that is the predication for that.

Great, thank you.

And commissioners, I'll just note that the gate is from a previous HCRC action.

So the gate is in compliance.

It's really just the car part that needs action today.

Any questions from colleagues on my left?

On my right?

No.

Um let's see.

So the qu I guess my question for staff is about the gate.

Um it was approved by HDRC as horizontal versus the vertical.

Um I don't know that the design of the gate was uh uh supplied at that time.

It was a question about location, and so that there was a stipulation that it be moved as proposed from the uh sidewalk back to the um corner here of the house.

And the guidelines don't specify design of fencing in that detail.

Okay.

The fence, my fence posts are horizontal, the fence planks are horizontal.

That might be the comment from there.

Okay.

And then let's see.

And what is the so I'm not uh fully understanding what the neighborhood association was mentioning about the rock at the bottom of the columns?

Can you walk me through that?

Or it's I I I let me I I can answer.

So um this uh this property was originally or previously owned by uh a contractor, and so there was a bunch of work that was done without approval um in between 2020 to 2022.

Um so Mr.

Warwick, he purchased the property in uh I believe late 2022 or in 2022 2023.

Um I was his case manager for a number of other requests, and at that time he worked with staff to correct previous violations.

So um as far as staff is concerned, the only um remaining violation on site is the construction of the side carport um uh as it stands now.

So any other work that was done as he mentioned too with the uh frosted glass and the door, they all that has been remedied.

Great, thank you.

I can show you if you're curious.

No, you're fine, thank you.

Thank you for answering the questions.

I just wanted to ask those on behalf of the neighborhood.

So do you have a question?

Uh maybe staff can answer this.

I I don't fully understand um because it's not in the packet uh how the carport is in violation.

Uh sure, it was just um the the work was done without a certificate of appropriateness.

So um the the way that our recommendations are written to our um public boards is is that the we reference the work as if it hasn't happened.

So the carport as constructed here um was done without a certificate of appropriateness, but the applicant's here today to request approval for it as as constructed So just back not backdating it, but but going back and correcting not having the COA.

That that's correct.

the the way that our recommendations are written to our um public boards is is that the we reference the work as if it hasn't happened so the carport as constructed here um was done without a certificate of appropriateness but the applicants here today to request approval for it as as constructed so just back not backdating it but but going back and correcting not having the COA that that's correct so then another question for staff um you find this carport to be in compliance so staff is recommending approval of this carport as constructed with the stipulation that um the applicant work with the um development services staff to obtain a permit um typically that does require a variance from the board of adjustment given that this appears to be on the on the property line so any other questions if not uh discussion or we can move to a motion please I make a motion that we accept staff recommendation I second thank you can every roll cloud please Davis aye Garcia name Brigard aye Spiller aye Fullerton I and Vasquez I motion carries thank you thank you sir please work with staff on next steps okay that moves us to individual items so next item on on the agenda is a uh CTAB case number 2025-313 for 826 Dawson Street the applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to install a new front yard concrete driveway approximately 20 feet long and 14 feet wide and second install a concrete walkway from the driveway to the walkway at the front of the primary structure item one staff does not recommend approval of the request to install a concrete driveway approximately 14 feet in width based on the findings staff recommends the new driveway be 10 feet in width item two staff recommends approval of the request to install a concrete walkway from the driveway to the central walkway at the front entrance to the primary structure based on the findings the applicants are here virtually and so um uh Jose or Daniel um you if you'd like to unmute yourselves you'll have 15 minutes to present your request to the board and we do have one voicemail for this item that we'll listen to after the applicant's presentation thank you are they online yeah Jose I think you're speaking but we can't hear you you might need to change your um audio source no we can't hear that actually I think it's on our end he's um are he's coming in through the WebEx just not through the room um can you advise us of what we need to change on the settings hello yes we can hear you okay now you can hear me perfect this is whole David Rivero uh I've got my father in law Daniel through here we were both on the call good morning good morning you want to state your case sir or for um continue and uh state your case yes yes that is correct so it is a 14 by 20 driveway there was a previous uh driveway below on uh on the on the you know on the on the ground but it was full of dirt we started uh kind of like with a with with our shovel cleaning it up so we we were repairing it uh the obviously it is 14 that that's a repaired pad the these are the only two new ones the two new 33 by 36 those are new we just did it as a walkway um but the actual driveway what that was all repaired underneath below I mean it it's it's it's it it had the uh it had part of it so we basically port some on top so that we're able to drive our car in the the uh gate rail was there uh I didn't take a picture

The these are the only two new ones, the two new 33 by 36.

Those are new.

We just did it as a walkway.

Um, but the actual driveway was that was all repaired underneath below.

I mean, it's it's it's it it had the uh it had part of it, so we basically poured some on top so that we're able to drive our car in.

The the uh gate rail was there.

I I didn't take a picture of it, but we removed it, we left it there.

That way where the gate they were open, open and close.

Okay, is that all um you wanted to mention about your case, sir?

Yes, uh if we need a turn or add it, make it a 10 sorry 10 foot.

We can would you say that again?

Wherever you guys would like, sir, you're cutting out it just a bit.

Uh would you mind repeating that?

I'm saying that we wouldn't be combined.

So whatever to do, we can ten foot by whatever it is.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Uh let me ask my colleagues if there's any questions, and uh we'll move we'll carry on.

Any questions from colleagues on my left?

Yeah, I just have one uh for the applicant.

Uh sir, are you saying that the pad that you poured is on top of an existing pad that the original driveway was 14 feet?

Yes, it was partial.

Most of it was full of dirt.

Uh but when we started cleaning it up or moving up third, it was like partial, it was ones where the iris were driving.

He just said there was some concrete.

There was some concrete on there, but it's full of dirt, it was full of dirt.

Anything further?

And commissioners, just a reminder, my apologies for the interruption.

Uh, we do have a voicemail for this item as well.

Oh, okay.

You want to go ahead and play that?

Sure thing.

Thank you.

Hello, this is Louis Francois, chairwoman of the Dick Nowity Hill Historic Neighborhood Review Committee calling in on case number 313, 826 Dawson Street.

We agree with staff's recommendation not to approve this request.

The driveway must be reduced to the standard 10 feet in width as is outlined in the historic guidelines.

In addition, the sidewalk leading from the driveway to the front yard walkway must be one solid core cement, not 33 by 36 inch concrete pads.

We also have some additional questions that we would like confirmation on.

There's a new cement step right under the door that seems to have been added to the porch.

Was this approved?

Since we don't have any pictures of the front sidewalk leading to the porch, was that replaced?

And if it was, is it one solid core of concrete, or is it also concrete pads?

In addition, how tall is the fence and the gate?

Normally gates must be even with the front facade of the house and not at the front of the properly line.

Was the fence approved to include the location and the height?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um again, was there any further questions after that?

Am I right?

No.

Um I I had a question about why uh sir, did you uh make the driveway uh that additional 14 feet versus it just being the standard 10 feet?

Uh I just this if you look at the gate, uh it has the piece of railing that goes all the way to the front, so that you're able to uh if I ever want to install like a I don't know to open the gate because see that gate's kind of small.

Um, and so I want to be able to or to not get hit when we open the gate.

So kind of like the want to say be more here to drive into the driveway, whether being getting hit up you know, with the gate or this is a small 10 feet small center.

Is it uh sorry, you were cutting out a lot.

Um is it because you wanted the swing?

Um is it because you wanted the swing is it a swing gate and then or does it it's not a swing gate, it's it just rolls right it rolls along the back of the fence that is existing yes.

Okay.

So okay.

I guess there's no real big person.

Okay.

Um and then there were some questions from the neighborhood about the front fence.

I know that is not up for discussion right now, but um was that something y'all installed?

It's been like that.

That's the original fence.

Okay.

Um we're just here to talk about the driveway and the sidewalk leading to the driveway.

Jay, I just was going to echo that.

Um I know that that's not what we're discussing, but I just would encourage the applicant to get with the um historical society of their of their group.

Um because clearly the historical society has several questions, and um we wouldn't want them to have to come back to another meeting like this.

So um I would just encourage the applicant to talk to their society their their um historical society.

You meant is it a rewards to the fence you meant the neighborhood, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Sir, uh she was mentioning uh or requesting that you work with the neighborhood, the dignity hill association.

That you any other questions?

Okay.

Uh discussion.

If not, I'm ready for a motion, please.

I'd like to make a motion uh that we supports that we support staff's recommendation not um to approve the request of the concrete sidewalk.

Um well the recommendation to cut it back to ten feet that we do support that, and that we also support the recommendation uh to install a concrete walkway from the driveway to the central walkway at the front entrance uh to the primary structure based on the findings.

I second a motion.

Thank you.

Can every roll call, please?

Davis.

Aye.

Garcia?

Aye.

Regard?

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton?

Aye.

Polyg?

Aye.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Um, sir, please work with staff on next steps.

They'll walk you through.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for your time.

Next case.

So next item on the agenda, item number eight for uh uh CTAP case 2025-306 for 323 Callahan Avenue.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to replace 13 historic wood windows on the primary structure with clad wood pellar reserve window product.

Staff does not recommend approval of window replacement.

Existing windows should be repaired and retrofitted consistent with the guidelines.

The applicants, Ed and Linda Leaf are here in person.

Uh Ed and Linda, if you'd like to approach the podium, you'll have 15 minutes to present your request and answer any questions the commissioners may have.

Hi there, welcome.

And please state your names and your case.

Hi, I'm Linda Kohezer.

And Edward Leaf.

Thank you.

You want to talk about your request, sir?

Yeah, we we we understand why it's not being approved to replace the windows.

Our concern is we we just wanted to share our concerns about the efficiency and you know how much how much uh energy we lose out of those windows.

And our wondering if the windows can be made to look exactly the same as they as the historic windows, then not really sure about why when you're looking at it, it looks the same, then why is it so important?

And we understand that um there's a preference in the regulations for keeping all old materials.

Um we also understand that there's no uh accommodation or concern in the regulations for energy efficiency.

Um these windows were probably great in 1900 when they were built, but I'm sure that if those builders were building today, they would not put a single pane of glass in there.

And it's also uh my concern.

Uh I'm very concerned about our effect on climate change.

And the current San Antonio building regulations for new construction specify that windows have to have a U value of 0.4 or less.

And it's estimated that windows of this size have a U value of about five and a half.

So they're not only just slightly inefficient, they're wildly inefficient.

And so uh we're also starting a dialogue with the city council because we understand they need to uh make any sort of changes to these you know recommendations.

Um but we at least wanted to get on the record saying that it is a concern of ours, and we're not trying to change how the house looks.

We love that we bought the house because we love the way it looks, but we also want to make it the best house possible.

Totally understand.

Thank you.

Is there any questions from my colleagues on the left?

Yeah, I just have one maybe for staff.

There's a letter in there that says uh the condition of the windows.

Is that have you guys been able to look at the windows or it's I can answer that, Commissioner.

So I did a site visit on this property and assess every window, both the inside and outside condition of the uh of the windows.

And um, you know, based on our guidelines, you know, we determined that these windows are in excellent shape.

You know, the they they could use a little bit of reframing or a little bit of restoration work to make them open and seal better for sure.

But um overall, the the condition of the windows based on our guidelines and our assessment is in excellent and very um in repairable shape.

And then I just have one question for the applicants.

The windows that you guys are proposing, you kind of are saying look exactly the same as these windows, but they're better efficiency.

And I was just curious if there are other existing photos of those because I see like in the schematics, but you can't really like there's not enough detail to see how they compare.

I I'm sorry, are you asking the proposed replacements?

Um, because they don't exist yet, they're going to be custom made.

So that's that's the idea is that um anything we could have found that is uh off the shelf wouldn't come close to matching the lines of the current windows.

So that's why we went with a company that can custom build the windows to those specifications.

And so does that include like all the trim and like the like they would cut the wood to replace the same pieces and it would be like a replica.

Um you saw the thing, the application.

Um the outside part would be replaced, but the inside part would remain the same.

It would be taken from the outside.

So the other thing is is I know that windows of this age are are valued.

Uh we would be happy to make sure that the company takes them out as gently as possible and be willing to donate them or preserve them in some other way if they would be fitting for some other project.

We're not gonna just throw them in the dump if if we don't have to.

Yeah.

Any further from Commissioner Davis?

I just have a discussion point.

And I kind of line up.

Let me make sure that she was done first.

You're okay.

Go ahead, sir.

Yeah, in line of what she said.

I think before I were to approve that I would need to see some kind of illustration or sample of what the replacement window would be.

Didn't they send us pictures that they rendered?

They rendered uh some pictures.

I know I uh I didn't see the actual application.

Pella submitted it for us because they said they've worked with you guys before and know like the requirements.

So I believe they had the something submitted.

Okay.

Yeah, so Commissioners, what you see on the screen is is what the applicant submitted.

Are those are they fully wood or what are they?

Yeah, they're wood.

Yes, that's correct, Commissioner.

Okay.

Any questions from my colleague on the right?

Oh, go ahead.

Uh Commissioner Fuller.

I I want to uh make a comment and a question.

Um first I am I'm thrilled that you're here to to make this uh this point and to advocate because adaptation is becoming increasingly more of a challenge for all of us, whether it's heat or nine-inch rainfalls or or drought or some combination.

Um it's a struggle, I think in in the preservation community to figure out how we balance these important values.

I remember over 20 years ago when I was in preservation grad school, the first lead guidelines were coming out, and and we were there was a lot of consternation in the preservation field that um we too can be pro-conservation and and energy efficient, but the the way the original lead guidelines were written, there was very little value given to um you know embodied energy and preservation and and and other aspects of it.

So that's that's an evolving conversation that clearly has a long way still to go.

Um I think advocates like yourselves are helping to move that down the road in the literal bricks and mortar and glass um here in San Antonio.

So I hope you you continue this.

And I'm I'm wondering too you you might uh have some luck talking with the conservation society, and I'm wondering maybe they could set up a series of tours on how uh you know um adaptation for hot summers has been the case for over 300 years because air conditioning is relatively new here, and yet people have been living here a long time.

So whether it's the thick drapes on the windows in the summer or the rest, it would be an interesting way for them to engage on some of this and and uh find houses like yours that were pre-built pre-air conditioning on on how people survived the summers here because they were not easy.

Um one final thing.

I don't know if if you talked to the Office of Sustainability, because I believe they've been in conversations with OHB2.

No, this is our first uh engagement.

I did want to point out the photo that's being shown now, the previous owners in an effort to deal with the heat installed uh collapsible shutters on the inside, and they completely close, and you do need to use those in the summer when the sun's coming in.

And even then they they help a lot, but they don't mitigate all the loss.

So just just uh so you know, out of the is it eleven or thirteen windows?

Thirteen, out of those, only one will open right now.

Great, thank you.

Any further um I'd like to make a comment.

I really find it um commendable that you're interested in um you know looking at sustainability as an issue in terms of um heat loss or cool cooling loss, whatever it might be, um, and how that can impact uh the environment.

Um I do think, however, that given what was stated about the um kind of condition of your windows, that it would be really unfortunate at this point if you were to have if you were to remove them.

Uh but I also understand your concerns, and I guess I have a question for you, or maybe just a suggestion, and that is that um several years ago a friend of mine who lives in Baja King William Um showed me these inserts that they put in the windows behind the existing window.

And that was for increased energy efficiency, because it basically I guess in a way worked as a storm shutter, but you couldn't see it from the outside.

And um it helped a lot with the issues that you're talking about.

And the one concern is that you know, yeah, it is pretty much a panel that goes in behind.

So you can't open the windows, but you just said they don't open, so I don't feel bad about making this recommendation as a potential thing that you might want to look into as well.

Um the other part about the not opening is egress concerns, but repairing them would address that, so that's why we didn't bring that up.

But having I I I've yet to see I've seen several examples of what you're describing, and they severely impact the view from the inside out, which is you know, we we like our views, we like the neighborhood, and and we want to be able to look out on at our garden or whatever.

So that's what we may end up having to do, but uh either way, you know, wouldn't be ideal.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I've just got to say you've got a beautiful house and uh beautiful gardens and um beautiful windows.

Those are the the soul of the home.

Uh and as much as you love the home, uh the windows are uh integral part of that home.

And uh I've got to advocate for restoration and preservation of those windows.

Those windows are almost like an artifact you'd find in a museum.

And um you just gotta preserve them as well as you can.

There are experts out there that do uh make them more efficient.

There are folks out there who will help you down shave it down to the original wood that will make it more efficient.

Uh there's a professional right there in the room uh that does a lot of window work in the around San Antonio.

Uh I just gotta advocate for that.

And um I will not be supporting your request, but uh just wanted to say it's beautiful and I commend you for wanting to preserve the style.

But um yeah, that's that's it.

And thank you for coming before the commission.

Uh lots of people just start tearing out windows and uh doing things they're not supposed to, and you're doing the right thing.

And um thank you for bringing up the issue about the energy efficiency.

That is a concern.

But that also can be addressed through restoration.

Um so please work with uh one of our local experts on restoration.

Um but besides that, is there anything further from comment-wise?

Yeah, I I do just have kind of like a general overall comment because I think at least for me, this is really a case of first impression where someone has walked in and said we can a hundred percent replicate the look of these windows and increase efficiency because I feel like most of the time it's windows coming out and it's just um like stock windows going back in or window, you know, they're vinyl or they're whatever they are.

And so when I read like the standard specifications for the original wood window replacement, right?

We're not really talking about repair, we're kind of talking about like um uh like uh bettering, I think in a way um for everyone if we're still so I looks-wise, right?

Is it the look of the glass?

Like is it the I mean if they can replicate the window, how would anyone know?

That was kind of our thinking, like the important part is preserving the look of the house.

Well, and I'll I'll say it's also preserving the components which you said you'd do, like to to deconstruct and make sure they're usable for something else.

And I don't know, it seems like a lot of people are looking for those windows for replacement if they are in excellent condition.

Um but what is it specifically if it's not repair, it's just like a prohibition on removing the I just want to remind you we do have an in-person speaker for this item, so I don't want to get into a motion before we hear from them.

Um so yes, to like the untrained eye, it's gonna look very similar.

Um the main difference is that these windows are essentially built into the house.

There's a top sash and a bottom sash that are held together by a window jam within the frame.

Um with a replacement window, it's one uh product that um is inserted and it's on a track system, and so you can see that track, and that's like a little bit of a distinguishable uh uh feature that you can helps you spot a replacement window.

Um but we are also just per the guidelines.

We always uh emphasize retention and repair of original materials when possible before we look into any replacement.

That's the same for siding, that's the same for um porch features and columns and things like that.

So we always look at repair versus replace.

Um I do want to say that energy efficiency is something that we're absolutely um our policy supports.

Um but we're looking at different things here.

So there's you know, when you look at reducing your carbon footprint in your home, you have the operational load of preheating and cooling, but then you also have the embodied carbon, like uh Commissioner Fullerton mentioned, um the embodied energy, everything that goes into harvesting the materials and making products that go into your home.

Where do they come from?

What country, what place in the world, how do they get here?

How long do they last?

Do you have to replace them again after a certain amount of time?

Um and I don't want to say anything disparaging about this product because it is a high-end product.

You're gonna spend a lot of money if this is approved.

Um but the wood quality is just not the same.

And so we have seen in other cases, and I'm not saying this is gonna happen here, but with a wood replacement product that has simply not lasted more than 10 years before wood rot and other um maintenance issues come into play.

Um you do have to paint these pretty regularly, and there is upkeep involved.

It's not uh it's not a uh maintenance-free product.

Thank you, Corey, for that additional.

Mr.

J can I add one more thing.

Go ahead.

Um, I think this is the bottom of the read that there are cities in China that we all are.

I've read that there there have been new cities built in China that are s similar to and in some cases almost near replicas of European um cities where people who may not ever be able to travel to Europe can visit and maybe even live in this replica city.

And um as a as a thought experiment, imagine if some other place in the world built um an exact replica of the Lavaca Historic District.

Um to say this is this is uh San Antonio and you know, pick your place to just drop it right on in.

But with you know, the improvements of climate change uh technology and double or triple sash windows and and these things um and and double and triple uh pane windows.

What would the difference be between you know Lavaca 1 and Lovaca 2?

Um and what is it about ours that makes it unique and special to this place?

And I think part of it is the materials.

And and as we just heard, um these materials um are special to a particular place and even a particular time.

Um you know, if you if you look at them as artifacts or as archaeologists in a hundred, two hundred years or more, you know, they'll say, well, based on the growth rings in the wood here, you know, in the rafters uh or in the windows, this appears to have been brought in by rail, which had only been in San Antonio for thirty years.

Um that's the only reason they could build this here.

And uh it came from Mississippi, as opposed to wood today, which might come from Canada or somewhere else.

And it's not that um there's anything wrong with Canadian wood per se.

I'm just saying that it tells a specific story about that point in time.

And and we're helping to be stewards of that as we protect these materials as much as we can to repair and replace only when when when necessary.

That would be my my argument.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

I I would just like to add a comment building on both um what staff said and what you said, and that is that um in a historic district that is as old as this one and your house is old as it is.

One of the reasons that um it's requested that the windows be repaired instead of replaced is that um the type of wood that your windows are made of currently, uh you can't get the quality of that wood anymore.

That's called old growth, right?

So those trees lived for a long time going through the cycles of growth in a way that no matter how expensive your windows are now, those trees do not.

They go through a much shorter life cycle, and they're usually raised on tree farms where it's like they're eating like at a buffet every day.

So the cell cellular on the cellular level of the wood, um the cells are much larger because they're in constant moisture, they're constantly eating.

So the strength is not the same when um you have a tree that goes through what's called um spring wood and summer wood wood cycles where it's actually um kind of hardened and then it grows and then the cells are smaller in the summer because there's less moisture, and all of that gives you the quality of the wood of your windows now, which is also one reason that historic districts want you to save those windows and just repair them.

And there are drawbacks to that, absolutely.

Um but by the same token, I I'm I'm familiar with the Pella product and I know it's excellent, but I also know that it's not the same quality of wood.

And that would be my concern is that in 10, 15 years, you're gonna have to do it all over again.

Where these uh these windows have lasted what, a hundred years?

Yeah.

125 years.

Yeah.

That's pretty long time.

It is.

One, I've had Pellow windows, and I saw them recently, and that's coming up on 40 years, and they're still fine.

So it doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna last 10 years.

I've never ever seen that happen.

Uh but two, I agree, the wood is far superior, the old growth wood.

Um, but it could make the exact same argument that the glass is far inferior.

The glass making 125 years ago just simply they didn't have the technology to make glass the kind of quality that is today.

So it's kind of a you know, which part do you want to look at?

You know, the wood is kind of not able to be replaced.

I understand that.

So that's probably old glass is beautiful.

It is.

And we could go on and on and on about the pluses and minuses of this.

Uh like we could talk about the glass in it if it were the original wavy glass.

Is yours the original wavy?

Can you tell?

About a third or so.

Yeah, that are the same.

There's several that you can see the colors.

You wouldn't want to throw that away.

It's not all original glass.

You want to restore those beautiful things.

But let's go to our in-person speaker, please.

Yes, I do apologize, Commissioner.

So we have one uh speaker that signed up to speak.

Um if you'd like to approach the podium, you'll have two minutes to speak.

Please state your name for the record once you get up here.

Thank you.

Good morning, Commissioners.

My name is Robin Foster.

Uh I am a historic window preservationist restorer.

First of all, I would like to applaud the applicants for coming in person today to make their case and not just tear out their beautiful old windows.

I I appreciate that very much.

I also understand their desire for energy efficiency, and I am happy to speak on that and correct some misconceptions that most of the American public has on this issue.

Uh I would also like to thank the commissioners, particularly Commissioner Garcia, for her understanding of what makes old wood windows so great, including the quality of old hardwood that cannot be beaten with any modern product, hands down.

Um it is true that the applicants' windows have lasted 120, 125 years.

They'll last another 100 years with proper care and maintenance.

Um the glass is beautiful, and uh I would like to correct some in some misconceptions about old glass is not as good as new glass.

Glass is glass, what makes uh the triple pane, double pane windows of today, why those are hawked as being energy efficient is simply that there is air between them.

Uh the problem is the seals on these multi-pane windows, the seals on this, these double pane windows, the seals don't last.

Perhaps the higher quality, most expensive windows do have seals that will last for some time, perhaps a few decades, but the seals will eventually fail and the the windows will fog up, air is allowed in, and then the windows have to be replaced.

Generally the windows have to be just completely taken out, and the whole unit has to be thrown out, and that goes into the landfill.

If the applicants are concerned, as we all should be, about environmental sustainability.

It is important to recognize that modern windows are made with a lot of petroleum products and new wood that does not last, which is why it often has to be clad in another product.

Uh the pro the manufacturing process is very harmful.

Whereas restoring an old wood window generates a minimum of waste, prevents these windows from going into the landfill, and it also uses local labor.

I myself am a graduate of San Antonio's Living Heritage Trade Academy, as are several window restorers in town.

Employing us to repair or restore windows keeps that money in the local economy and generates so much less waste.

As to the subject of energy efficiency, I am a member of the window standards collective, the window preservation standards collaborative, excuse me, as well as the window preservation alliance, both are national trade groups.

The WPSC has conducted studies for the last 15 years on energy efficiency with old wood windows and has proven that it is possible to achieve achieve the same energy efficiency as modern windows and even surpass it.

When an old historic window, a wood window, is paired with weather stripping products or storm windows, whether those are interior or exterior, they perform better and they will last so much longer.

They'll last a hundred years if you invest in good products and the good labor to put them in.

It is possible to achieve energy efficiency in a hot place like San Antonio.

We window restorers are happy to educate the public.

We understand that they simply may not be aware of the options available to them.

Thank you for letting me speak on this subject.

And ma'am, while you're up here, is there any kind of forum like my colleague mentioned that you'll host on uh whatever basis that does educate public because that is something that is sorely missing, it appears from all the cases that we've had to help educate our public.

Well, Office of Historic Preservation, when they host events such as the Home Repair Fair as they hosted last May.

Uh we window restorers do demonstrations and show homeowners or anyone interested how to perform repairs, but we're also available to answer questions.

We don't have a specific um conference or something.

Perhaps that is something we could do because I love speaking about old wind windows and educating people on what makes them so great.

Um I do write an article for my neighborhood newsletter, the Monticello Park Neighborhood Association, trying to educate our homeowners there on how to take care of their windows and why they should keep them.

But I agree more information needs to be out there because the window replacement companies have very large advertising revenues and they are able to drown us out and unfortunately convince homeowners that oh, are your windows more than five years old?

It's time to replace them.

Unfortunately, that creates a debt cycle for homeowners because on average, I mean most people can't afford the top of the line replacement windows.

So they are buying the the lower end ones that go into the landfill every 10 to 15 years.

And not only is that a tragedy for petroleum waste going into our landfills, it's a tragedy for the homeowners who are trapped in the debt cycle of replacing these windows.

Furthermore, every time a historic window is removed, it damages the frame.

So it's damaging the building envelope.

And even a custom fit window is not going to be the same as an original historic window.

But with every replacement, that's every 10 to 15 years, that building envelope is eroded a little bit more every time.

And eventually get to the point where it's it's it's completely changed the building.

They can be kept and repaired, and we do that.

And made openable.

And absolutely make them openable and beautiful and functional.

Um we can make it so that they look beautiful when you look through them.

Your view is not obscured.

Um there's so many options.

Most homeowners just aren't aware.

Great.

Thank you for your uh advocacy and time.

You're very welcome.

Uh is there any further comment?

If not, I'll take a motion.

Go ahead.

I'd like to make a motion to uh support staff's recommendation, which states that they do not recommend approval of window replacement, and that the existing windows should be repaired and retrofitted consistent with the guidelines.

I'll second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis, aye.

Garcia?

Aye.

Regard?

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton?

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you again for working with us on this and for make it into a making it into a little education uh lesson too.

Uh please work with professionals like the one that spoke.

Um again, thank you for your time.

Next case.

Item number 10 on the compliance and technical advisory board agenda, case number 2025-242.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness to replace 31 historic one over one wooden windows with an aluminum clad double-hung window product.

Staff does not recommend approval of window replacement.

Existing windows should be repaired and retrofitted consistent with the guidelines.

The applicant may provide additional information during the repair process to demonstrate the feasibility of retaining original materials.

In-kind replacement may be considered for administrative approval on a case-by-case basis.

Based on the site visit, windows 25, number 25, 35, and 36 may be eligible for an in-kind Fully Wood replacement upon verification by staff.

Yes, thank you.

We do have an in-person speaker, and we have um Felix Pinya, who is um online with us.

He's the applicant.

Uh Felix, you have 15 minutes to present your request.

Yes, ma'am, thank you.

And good morning.

Uh I am the homeowner at 134 with Keith Highway, and um I'm doing renovations at the moment.

Um regarding the exterior, I intend to keep the integrity, and um every single look about it, exactly the same.

Um nothing will change, even the exact same color will stay the same.

Um my application is for Anderson windows, uh series, but I think there's uh incorrect book here.

Were you indicating that they are aluminum windows?

And it's my understanding that the interior component is wood, and the exterior is wrapped with labor glass.

So I don't know if they if those two different um that's questionable there.

Um the structure has a total of 40 windows, and uh there's an outdoor patio on the front with the oval shape openings, those were later closed.

That patio was closed in with uh blocked glass and aluminum windows, perhaps sometime uh 1970s or so.

Um my intentions are to open that patio back up, and I do have uh, I guess I have permission to remove those so those four windows uh not being asked to be replaced.

There's uh window number six six, which is uh oval shape also facing front.

Um that is a very unique window, and I have um communicated with Anderson windows that it would be very costly to replicate that window with the same type of uh e-surface, and so that window been okay with restoring, um, even though the keys to restore that window is much more than the estimated $30,000 given by Anderson windows.

Um the remainder of the entire windows for the impressive school are going to look exactly the same.

There's there's going to be no different, they're going to be painted the exact same color.

Um anyone in driving the neighborhood, anyone driving into the neighborhood in coat, including probably not tour buses if you if you want to say not going to see exactly what's there now.

The structure was built in 1918, and uh I am in disagreement with the with the committee and also uh my case manager.

You know, we're high-text-paying property owners, and we should not be subjected to a video 1915.

Um regarding uh energy efficiency.

I was there last winter, and I caught major flu because the windows do absolutely nothing for for the weather.

Um the uh I I get it.

This lady that's coming before me, she spoke really well, and she has good intentions, but um, but I'm willing to bet that perhaps she and some of you don't live in our district here, and it's kind of unfair for you guys to be subjecting us to these uh regulations which were written years ago.

My neighbors are waiting to see what the outcome would be of the chain today because they too want to replace their windows because they too are subjected to the weather, and you know, you guys can't be subjective, allowing some neighbors to do some things and other neighbors not.

I feel that's discriminatory.

My front neighbor has no windows.

I don't know how that happened, but um you know uh I come from a um highly political family.

Um Felix Pinna Gonzalez, my great uncle was Henry B.

Gonzalez, who lived a couple of doors over.

My cousins also Gonzalez lived down the street in the 300 block.

Um this is the uh congressman district 23 at the moment here in San Antonio, and um another relative Henry P in the past was also a high political figure.

In the past was also a high political figure.

If I have them behind me today, we would probably help to change the regulations that you guys are having to abide.

They make absolutely no sense.

Why are you making us live in 1915?

This is ridiculous, especially if I'm willing to keep the integrity of the look of the house exactly the way it is today.

And so I am proposing I am actually asking this to give it some serious thought.

In fact, in my case, my windows are 115 years old.

And they are not serving their purpose.

I understand this lady says they can be good for another hundred years.

There's no telling.

And the last estimate is $85,000, and that also doesn't include any additional hidden costs.

So you guys are forcing me to abide by restoring windows.

Then I would have to pay Anderson windows and be happy.

That's all I'm asking you guys.

This is just not uh a big ask.

Um I'm an attorney, but I don't practice law.

I'm a real estate broker by trade, and I've dealt with a lot of historical properties.

Um I live in Los Angeles, but I'm a San Antonian native.

Um the historical properties here in Los Angeles are protected if there is a known architect involved or that designed a home in the past, or there's a well-known celebrity.

And um, I know San Antonio is much different than Los Angeles, but here in Beverly Hills, we take homes that are uh as old as my home, 1915, and they get torn down.

Um you guys, my grandfather and was involved with building Hemisphere Plaza, and um the city took the liberty of tearing portions of hemisphere plaza down for newer structures.

So if you can subjectively say let's tear down Henry's Fair Plaza, but we can't touch Monte Vista.

Uh that makes no sense.

Um I think that uh the guidelines need to change, and uh I'm going to ask that you guys take this and everything I've said into consideration and allowing me to uh move forward with the Anderson windows.

Great, thank you.

Isn't that all you have?

Well, I may have some follow-up questions, but go ahead.

All right.

Uh, we have an in-person speaker.

Thank you.

Good morning.

My name is Robin Foster, and I live in San Antonio and I restore historic wood windows professionally.

San Antonio is a leader nationwide in preserving historic wood windows.

I am a member of two national trade organizations for historic window preservation.

I'm a member of the window preservation alliance, as well as the window standards preservation collective.

We know that old historic wood windows are a much better product than anything that is made today.

The applicant is correct.

These windows have lasted a hundred years.

I can't guarantee that they will last another hundred years, but experience has shown that if they are maintained and restored, they will last another hundred years.

Replacement window companies cannot guarantee their products.

They typically go back into the landfill every 10 to 15 years.

Some of the highest quality windows can last longer than that, but ultimately they will fail because of the seals that are between the panes of glass.

It ruins the architectural integrity of an old house like this to replace it with modern products.

They will not last long.

When those old windows are removed, the old window frames are going to be damaged.

These windows can be repaired, all of them.

Repaired and restored.

I should also mention that where energy efficiency is concerned.

75% of a house's energy loss comes from sources other than the windows.

Windows only account for 25% of buildings energy loss, and of that 10% comes from air infiltration.

This is easily repaired.

There are products that will last another hundred years, such as weather stripping, such as spring bronze, storm windows, interior or exterior, but like a wood storm window with glass.

That will make a window as efficient as a modern window.

So you can continue.

Thank you.

These should not be removed.

I looked carefully at the pictures as best I could.

I believe there's 40 windows in the house.

31 are being requested to replace.

Of the three that the Office of Historic Preservation identified as being beyond repair, actually, in my professional opinion, they can be repaired.

You would be amazed what I and other window restorers can do.

We can fix just about anything.

And that is local labor.

That is not labor, that is not materials that are being bought from Anderson Windows or another replacement window company.

San Antonio has invested heavily in its preservation, and they trained a number of us in the Living Heritage Trades Academy to learn to restore its building stock in these old windows.

There is every reason to keep them.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um folder there for your review.

Thank you.

I'll move on to questions.

Any from my colleagues on the left.

Go ahead.

I just have one for the applicant.

I'm sorry.

How long have you lived in the home?

I'm not living in there.

I have a caretaker there at the moment.

I purchased I purchased it a couple years ago.

My intentions were to move in this past October, but there's been a lot of delays with uh with the windows back and forth with Anderson back and forth.

Other window companies are waiting on estimates on these rehabers and dealing with my own general contractor, but the house.

There's a lot of stuff that I did inside to cure the uh HVAC and the plumbing system is 115 years old and had sewer line issues that are taking care of all of that.

With permits, of course, but no.

This is going to be my corner home.

And I intend to pass it on to my kids.

Uh this is not something that's going to go on the market.

I'm not a flipper.

I do have a real estate back home, but those are not my intentions.

And I can appreciate the style of the building of the structure that's uh you know the Spanish colonial and um it blends very well into the neighborhood, and it has been for 115 years.

But um I think it's ridiculous that you're making me or giving me permission to replace some windows but not others.

Um that's kind of like uh taking a car being able to own it disrepair but not disrepair.

Sure, and and my question was leading that has to live in it, not you guys.

Thank you, uh sir.

So her basic question was whether you reside in the home or if you're in San Antonio and let her ask it her way.

Yeah, so well my my original question was just leading into a second question, which is um so you bought the home recently you're in and I heard you say you were from San Antonio or had tied to San Antonio, so were you you're aware?

So were you you're aware?

Can you tell me what awareness you had about buying a home in this district di uh in this neighborhood?

Yes, ma'am.

I was born in San Antonio and I moved away when I was 18 for college, and I'm in Los Angeles at the moment.

Um I'm heading into retirement and I'm I'm ready to come home.

Uh I purchased a home through uh about two years ago.

Uh my parents uh we had family in the area, but my parents were going to purchase a home on restash many years ago.

We ended up not buying it.

I don't I don't know exactly what happened or why we didn't buy it.

Um I moved away, and so I always uh wanted to own my own house in Monica.

Here I am.

But now I'm somewhat being precluded from doing what I or and how I want to live.

It's not right.

I I think you guys need to change uh your frame of thought.

And um I know you have guidelines to abide by.

But those are ancient.

They need to be changed.

And we can change this.

Thank you, sir.

Sure.

Yeah, and I I appreciate that, and I appreciate you coming here today.

I think um it's great that that you came here first, but um I just wanted to get the sense, and I appreciate you asking that question of of what your understanding was buying in this neighborhood since you purchased so recently and these guidelines were in place, and so I I appreciate you answering that.

Any other questions from my colleagues on the left?

Go ahead.

Thank you for uh hearing uh sorry.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with us today, Mr.

Pena.

Um I want to know if you've uh I hope you'll have a chance to review some of the online resources uh that the Office of Historic Preservation and the Conservation Society and other groups have.

Um I'll I'll just point you to the San Antonio.gov website um on the historic districts, and there's one dedicated to Montevista, which does point out that facing deterioration um across the neighborhood and development intrusion, the neighborhood residents formed the Monte Vista Historical Association in 1973 to conserve to preserve the community, and they were so well organized that they um pushed the uh city council to designate it as a local uh historic district in 1975, and they've been cultivating that identity ever since.

In fact, they're one of their uh elements uh that they they raise up is to be able to keep the physical identity of this neighborhood intact and to educate the public, especially the youth about the knowledge of these inherited neighborhood values which contribute to a wholesome urban environment.

And then it was even added to the National Register as a historic district in 1998.

So the neighborhood, as you've uh seen on your visits back, as you heard, I'm sure growing up, um, has a very distinctive um personality and culture, and and the neighborhood uh residents have been so proud of that that they've been uh working uh as as a nonprofit entity and um by pushing city officials to create these specific guidelines for the specific buildings in that neighborhood.

And I appreciate, as you might have heard, you know, our last speakers were interested in windows and energy efficiency, and preservation is you know an evolving process.

We're not expecting anyone to live in you know glass museum boxes.

Um the question is how do we as as as a community um wrestle with identity um in terms of you know the the cultural heritage that has been passed on to you us, and in your case, you know, your family has a tremendous uh presence and cultural heritage here.

And what does that mean to make it San Antonio?

And you know, and Los Angeles has their own, but it's it's the one for Los Angeles, and it's wonderful that you're coming back, and this building is a part of that, uh, the materials in particular.

So um I I I would ask uh that you review some of the materials online um because a great deal has been written and and and spoken about Monte Vista because it's such a a landmark district, and I think you might find it very helpful and interesting.

Additional comments.

Yes.

Um, sir, I would like to uh just also mention that um you have advocated that the commission see it maybe from a different angle in terms of these guidelines.

And I would just like to point out that these guidelines are put in place by the neighborhood itself.

It was a belief and a desire that the neighborhood in the 70s had to preserve and to make sure that their neighborhood was going to remain intact, both architecturally speaking and in terms of the built fabric.

Um to say that we need to potentially re-examine these guidelines and not be subjective.

They were uh guidelines that are you know very carefully thought out and perhaps they selected and want to enforce, but uh these were not made up by people who were uneducated about what it was that preservation is.

And we are not subjective, if anything.

I think our role is to be as objective as we possibly can.

And that might sometimes look as if we're not um fully aware of what your desire is.

Um however we do our best to try and mitigate um the kind of let's say uh decisions that we have to make and keeping with the guidelines that it's our duty to uphold.

So that is where maybe uh at least my um desire to keep these wood windows and have you repair the ones that need to be repaired uh come into play.

Thank you.

Sir, and I'll just add to uh my colleagues uh comments questions.

Um as I and I'm sure you listened to the case before.

Um again, this neighborhood is seen as a museum.

Historic districts are a museum.

Part of those museums is the artifacts, which are these windows.

Other elements within with that are part of these homes include the tile roofs, the other things that make it unique to the museum.

And this is uh just not an ask to uh go into the museum and just take out the artifacts and uh mangle them.

This is uh something you need to preserve and protect, like a museum is meant to be, to preserve those artifacts.

And um I'm just gonna say uh I'll be with uh staff's recommendations to not allow the replacement because these windows again, same story, second verse, uh can be restored as horrible as you may think they are.

They're I'm guessing uh staff looked at all of them and what maybe one or two uh were in fair.

There were three that I would say fair condition, the remainder certainly repairable.

Um and the image you're looking at now, he has already received approval to open up that front porch again, which we absolutely support.

Um and uh the triangular window there is not part of the replacement request.

Thank you.

So I'll I'll leave I'll end with that.

Um just that these are repairable and replacement is just not something that uh that house needs and it is not a subjective uh uh application that we're we're doing this.

So um with that I'll ask for a motion, please.

I make a motion that we accept staff recommendations.

I'd like to second that motion.

Thank you.

Can I have roll call?

Davis.

Aye.

Garcia?

I.

Spiller.

Fullerton.

Aye.

Pollock?

I.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Please work with staff on next steps.

Thank you.

Next case.

Sorry, Mr.

Chair, the computer's frozen.

Uh just one moment.

I don't know if you need to uh

I don't know if you need to uh is it just Adobe that's frozen.

Yeah, the applicants online.

Hi, we can see you.

Uh we're having a technical moment and then we'll get started on your case in just a bit great, Mr.

Chair.

Sorry about that wait.

Um CTAP case number twenty twenty-five- two eight nine one zero two Thrain Boulevard.

The applicants requesting our certificate of appropriateness for approval to one, construct a four-foot tall metal mesh front yard fence set back from the property line, and two, construct a four to six foot tall metal mesh style side yard fence insulate installed parallel to McCullough.

The item one, staff recommends approval of the front yard fence request based on findings A through C with the following stipulation.

One that the fence feature a wood frame design not to exceed four feet in height, and item two, staff recommends approval of the request for the side fence installation based on findings as submitted.

Um the property owner Rob uh Rob Halverson is here um virtually and um Rob, if you'd like to walk the commissioners through your request, you'll have uh 15 minutes to do so.

And really quick, was there anyone to speak for or against?

Um no.

So there's no letters, voicemails, or in-person speakers at this point.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr.

Halverson.

Okay, thank you.

Hello everyone.

Um we are uh we would like to build a fence um for privacy and protection.

That area isn't quite uh a lot of traffic.

And so we've been finding that people have been walking through our yards and people have glittering.

Um and so we want to respect the community and make a really attractive looking fence.

Um it it's quite straightforward.

We would ideally like to make an all metal fence because we think it would blend in more uh blend in nicer and be uh coherent and co uh continuous around the property.

So if you guys could see that we would appreciate that.

Um but yeah, we are open to the recommendations that you guys put forward.

That is pretty much it, but um if you have any questions, I'd I'd love to hear them.

Sure, Mr.

Halverson.

Uh let me go to my colleagues.

Any questions from my colleagues on the left?

I do.

I have one for staff, please.

Um so the applicant says that they would like to request um an all metal fence and recommendation number one says that you guys uh the staff is recommending wood.

Uh would the staff um agree to a metal fence or support a metal fence or no?

Uh great question, thank you for that.

Um so for the past two and a half, three years, uh staff's been really consistent on front yard fan fencing um having a wood panel if it's gonna have any type of metal mesh.

Um there have been times um both at the HDRC and at the at this C tab at this commission where um the board has gone against staff's recommendation and has approved a metal framed uh metal mesh fence.

But our recommendation uh is the the the wood frame.

Any any additional from my colleagues on the left?

No.

Um I just have a question again for staff.

So you just answered in regard to the front fence.

Is that correct?

That you'd want that to be wood.

What about the side?

That's correct.

So for the side yard uh staff's recommending approval as submitted um as far as side and uh rear fencing that's behind the front wall plane of the historic property uh or the contributing property, it's we've consistent consistently approved metal post fencing and alternative styles and such.

It's just the front yard fence that we're uh recommending approval with a wood frame metal mesh fence.

And has there been um I didn't see it in the packet?

Has there been any kind of uh oh yeah, I guess there is a drawing that shows where the fence is going.

Um applicant, um have you considered that idea that maybe the front would be a wood fence and the side fence would be metal?

Yes, um the reason we would like an all-metal fence is because the wooden fences in the neighborhood have a lot of damage and the sun beats them up pretty bad.

And so we were also told because of the shifting soil, a metal fence will have more integrity and stay up straight.

Because we're seeing a lot of leaning fences, a lot of collapsing fences, and so you're dealing with weather damage, you're dealing with soil damage.

And so we just thought the metal fence really looks really slim, looks really smart, but it also will have more longevity.

Also, there is a few other wire and metal fences in the neighborhood along with wooden fences, and so all the metal fences in the neighborhood that are existing look look straight.

They they just they hold up better.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I guess my only question is for staff.

Uh the front yard fence will not exceed four feet in height, is what you're recommending.

And they the applicant wanted to go higher than the four foot?

Uh great question.

No, the um so staff will typically add a height stipulation as a part of the um overall approval um given that sometimes there is some um confusion about what development services will approve based on a permit, which is five feet.

So um the applicants requesting four feet in height, we're supporting four feet in height, and we just made sure to reiterate that in our stipulation.

Thank you.

And then the side fence that runs along Macullah is considered back or backyard fencing, whatever.

Correct, yes.

So any fencing that's behind the front wall plane is considered rear fencing.

So um you can get a up to a six-foot tall approval um both from staff and uh from development services is based as part of the permit review.

So since it's the house is on the corner, would the front yard be considered where all the blue is on this illustration is?

Yes and no.

So the um just anything past, and let me get the mouse.

So anything past this front wall right here is considered front yard fencing, so it doesn't matter whether it's uh parallel to the rain boulevard or this small little section here that is parallel to McCullough.

Anything behind this front wall plane here and back is considered rear fencing.

Okay.

Um and also to our recommendation or the request from the applicant is anywhere from four to six feet in height because they've uh selected to choose multiple heights at this rear yard.

Okay.

I just wanted to be sure about the application of the four foot fencing.

It would be again where that square what right there, along McCullough up to the front plane of the house.

Or in line with the front plane of the house, and then once it gets to the back or along the house, that's when it would go to six foot.

Is that correct?

That's correct, yes.

Okay.

Um see I'll take a motion I'd like to make a motion to support uh staff's recommendations.

I'll second.

Thank you.

Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis.

Aye.

Garcia?

Aye.

Regard?

Aye.

Spiller.

Aye.

Fullerton?

Aye.

Pollock?

Aye.

And Vasquez.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Thank you, Mr.

Halverson.

Please work with staff on next steps.

Okay, thank you, guys.

Thank you.

Otherwise, we are adjourned.

Thank you all.

Thank you.