Good afternoon everyone.

Um time is on 3 p.m.

and like the call to order this historic design review commission meeting for Wednesday, March 4th, 2026.

May I have a roll call, please?

Ma'aman.

Here.

Savino.

Here.

Velazquez Galloway.

Present.

Mazuka.

Commissioner Mazuka, we can't hear you, but we'll come back to you.

Commissioner Givada.

Okay, not hearing our virtual commissioners.

We'll come back to you.

Uh Commissioner Groob.

Travieso.

Holland Fetzer.

Here.

And Gibbs.

I'm here.

Here, here, here, here.

We have a quorum.

Thank you.

May I have translation services, please?

Good afternoon, everyone.

Buenas tardes a todos.

Las personas que prefieren escuchar la audiencia in espanhol.

Thank you.

The historic and design review commission is advisory board appointed by city council.

I am J.

Maurice Gibbs, Chairman and the Vice Chair is Jeffy Fetzer.

It is the function of the commission to advise the city manager and all relevant city departments concerning all applications for permits for properties in historic districts for landmarks on city property and a river improvement overlay and for demolitions.

And considering whether to recommend approval or disapproval of an application for a certificate of appropriateness, the commission shall be guided by the city's unified development code and design guidelines and standards that have been adopted by City Council.

An appeal of a decision by administrative official can be filed in accordance with the city's unified development code.

If anyone present wishes to speak in favor or in opposition to any item on today's agenda, please sign up on the public comment sheet.

It is not necessary to sign up if you are the owner of or representative for a project on the agenda.

You will be called on as the case is called.

Case representatives will be given no more than 15 minutes to present their case with an additional two minutes to respond to public comments.

Speakers for or opposed to a case will be limited to two minutes each.

Speakers may also sign up to yield their two minutes to another speaker who has signed up.

Anyone who is yielding their time must be present at the time the speaker is called upon.

Speakers will be called upon in the order in which they are signed up following public testimony.

Any commissioner may call upon any speaker to respond to further questions.

Approval by the commission does not take the place of any type of permit.

Permits must be attained for all work.

Certificates of appropriateness but work approved by the commission will be emailed to you within 10 days.

No work of any type is to be started with that obtaining the appropriate city permits after certificate of appropriateness has been issued by the Office of Historic Preservation.

At this time, please silence your cell phones.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Um Megan, if you'd like to attempt roll call one more time.

Okay, we can see that you're speaking, but we will continue to troubleshoot.

I'm sure you can hear us, but we cannot hear you in the room, unfortunately.

Before we get started, we do have a few announcements.

So we would first like to welcome our new HDRC commissioner appointed by City Council District 8, Alexander Travieso.

So thank you.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

We're happy to have you join us.

And we also have a few staff announcements that many of you may already be aware of.

So our former director, Shannon Miller has transitioned into a new role with the city as chief downtown officer, and Corey Edwards is now serving as our interim director of OHP.

So we want to extend a big congratulations to both of them on these well-deserved opportunities, and we are really excited for them.

So the first order of business that we have are the meeting minutes from from February 18th, 2026.

Yes, Mr.

Chairman.

Second.

It's been moved and promptly seconded.

Is there further discussion?

Mayor roll call, please.

Ma'aman.

Savino.

Aye.

Galloway.

Aye.

Givata?

We have thumbs up.

Holland?

If you can give us a thumbs up, unfortunately, our audio isn't working yet.

Thank you.

Fetzer?

Hi.

And Gibbs.

Motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

And now if we'll turn our attention to the consent agenda, we have six items on consent today.

We do not have public comment in person or any voicemails for these items.

Thank you.

Do any commissioners wish to pull any items on a consent agenda?

Yes, Mr.

Chair.

I would like to pull item number two.

Item number two.

Any other items?

Mr.

Chair, I move for approval of items one, three, four, five, and six with staff stipulations.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconding further discussion.

Maybe ever roll call, please.

Galloway.

Aye.

Mazuka.

Try again.

Givata.

Trevioso?

Holland.

Fetzer.

Hi.

And Gibbs.

Hi.

Motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

If your address is 307 Delaware, 9800 Airport, 423 Blue Star, 801 North Olive Street, or 222 Mary Louise.

Your case has been approved and you do not need to stay for the remainder of the hearing.

Your um case manager will email you your uh certificate of appropriateness within the next 10 business days.

Thank you.

And then commissioners, if you want to give us just a moment, please.

We're just trying to uh troubleshoot um our uh virtual commissioners.

Thank you.

Uh Commissioner Mizoka, could you unmute yourself and try to um speak again, please?

Um let's see.

So we're we're just trying to see if if we can unmute you.

If you're at all able to unmute yourself on your side.

There we go.

Okay.

Yes, we can hear you.

Perfect.

Okay.

Um, our other commissioners online.

Uh would you please try unmuting yourselves just to see if we can hear you as well.

Perfect.

I'm here, home your honor.

Excellent.

Thank you, Commissioners.

Okay.

Problem solved.

Thank you.

Item number two, please.

Okay.

Mr.

Chair, I pulled this case because I have some questions for staff.

Okay, thank you.

Um in the case uh case materials, uh, under the f uh findings, there is a comment about see if I can find a comment about um let me find it.

Uh about the guidelines.

The guidelines for exterior maintenance and alterations note that screens should be simply should be simple in design as to not change the character of the structure and facade.

So can you and generally staff finds the proposed gate to be appropriate and consistent with the guidelines?

Can you talk about that as how this gate that is very ornate in its own right?

It's beautiful.

But as applied to the church porch, how does it meet the guidelines?

Yes, and thank you, Commissioner Zavino.

I'm happy to answer that question.

Um so from the initial HDRC hearing on January 21st, 2026, staff did re recommend approval of this request at that time as well.

And so during staff's review, staff found that this gate um due to the scale of the building would not overwhelm or negatively impact the character, and also that the gate is a reversible condition.

Um since the agenda was published, we have received uh late submission of an update to the gate design following the first HDRC hearing and then the later design review committee meeting.

So Adrian will pull that up as well for you all to review.

Just one second, Commissioners.

This one, I'm sorry, Commissioners.

It seems that this file is not opening, but it should be in your late folder.

Okay.

Are you guys able to access it?

Yeah, I'm sorry, Commissioners.

Our computer is um not cooperating over here.

Um aside from that, then um with the the decor infill of these gates, and this is iron, right?

This is a wrought iron um fabrication.

Um how does one see beyond that that material and that design to see the original doorway and the staying glass and all of that sort of stuff that's really pretty ornate?

Because it seems like it would obscure quite a bit.

Absolutely, that's a great question.

Uh staff believes that even though the gate is quite ornate, um, that once installed it looks quite busy on the drawing, but that it wouldn't be as busy once installed.

Okay, thank you.

Are you any other questions about this case?

If not, may have a motion.

On on the late files, uh, there's two different versions.

There's one that has some ironwork on the arch.

It's is there a design of choice.

Um if the applicant is here, would you would you like to speak on that item regarding the two options in the file that you had sent uh the case manager Edward?

Thank you.

Um the two options are just press the button.

Please identify yourself.

Just press the button so it lights up.

There we go.

All right.

Um my name is Reverend Burke, I'm the pastor of St.

John's Lutheran Church.

Um, and so the two pictures in y'all's files is um just two options for consideration for y'all that uh one has that that extra arch on top um and then one has it without it.

And so one has uh the one without it is is a completely you know unobstructed view of the of the stonework and and masonry, and um the other one has it it it kind of is in a uh blank space in our opinion, but we just wanted to put two options that you know y'all y'all requested some things and we said yeah, uh yeah, that that makes sense, and we'll we'll try and meet y'all halfway and um so yeah, just a couple things, and I guess we we kind of lean towards the the one without the um the top, but we're certainly good either way.

Um we want to be as flexible as possible.

Yeah.

Uh first okay, step.

The the people online couldn't see it before.

I didn't have any other questions.

Sorry.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Professor.

Yes.

Um question again about the location of the gate in relation to the uh the archway and the beveled entry.

Uh Adrian, could you put up photo nine?

Sure.

And for technical questions, I'm gonna ask uh Mr.

Killis to come up and uh and Patrick and they can answer technical questions as far as placement and uh that type of construction things.

Is that okay?

Well, this is more in terms of um while you have it out at the front of the step rather than at the back of the beveled sides of the architect.

Um because the the one of the one of the primary uh intentions of this is to um is to extend the uh the perimeter.

We've had um the homeless will defecate, urinate.

Um they will uh destroy things on the church.

Um as you can see, the bottom of the church has been uh the bottom of the uh doors has been uh totally destroyed because they every night they they urinate on the on the doors themselves.

And so if the gates are halfway in, it protects the doors, but they're still gonna congregate in that space and and sleep there.

And so the intention is to come out to extend that that perimeter, but also not get in the way of the uh the handrails that are on the uh um on the sides there.

Well, it just seems it well.

I don't know what the dimensions from the door to the inside of the bevel, and then from the that inside of the bevel to the step uh looks uh maybe five or six feet uh from the doors to the inside bevel.

Um and whether the gates are at the front of the step or at the back of the bevel, you still have the porch where people are liable to congregate anyway.

Structural issue also uh is that okay if he answers something?

Chairman.

My name is Killis Alman.

I'm an architect here in San Antonio.

Um the way that the building is built, there's actually a concrete frame, and where you see that step right there, that is the front structural element of the facade.

And right at that inset that you see before you get to the bevel, there is a concrete column behind that that helps uh it supports that the big arch for the windows, and that allows you to anchor it to the concrete, and it it's that would be the place to put it put it best for the structural element.

Uh and it can go um the bolts can go into the mortar joint and go back into the the two columns that support that, and it'll be a good anchoring.

Uh there that is a slab back in there, but the doors when they open, uh they're just right uh at the bevel, they're just almost uh 18 inches maybe uh between the bevel and the face of the door.

So uh it is better structurally to put it where it's shown right there with the little inset uh up on that step.

Thank you for that clarification.

That's fine.

Um for context purposes, I like to um share for the commission that I'm familiar with what the Paris was spoken of because I I run by this church three times a week and I see the homeless inside that area.

So I understand exactly what what you're trying to accomplish here, so I understand why you want to place it where it is.

So um it it definitely makes sense.

Um because I I see I'm congregating it in a spot there as well as a little bit further down on other steps as well.

So I I definitely get that.

So um any other questions for the applicants may have a motion, please.

Uh Mr.

Chair, I had a I had a question.

Go ahead, Commissioner Holland.

If I could if I could see only because I can't see your the two different versions that are in front of the commission right now.

Can you put them back up, Adrian?

Thank you.

Give me a second, it'll it'll be up on the screen, shortly.

Commissioner Holland, we're just troubleshooting the file at the moment, so we'll have it up shortly.

No problem.

Yeah, try to open open length and but it's not there.

Is there something uh yeah?

I had tried that easy, and it says that.

Okay.

I'll just yeah, Commissioners.

I'm sorry, um, I'll just have to drag it this way.

I don't know why these files won't open.

We've tried to um switch them even to PDF, and we're still having issues.

So um it's not great, but yeah, it's very small.

But here you might be able to see a little bit.

And as a descriptor, the updated drawings remove the grapevines from the top arch, and then the second option also removes the very top portion so that the gate is only in set within the arch opening.

Thank you.

I yeah, I wish I could see it.

Um applicant is trying to do your um I wouldn't have to turn.

I can't I can't get it to live.

Okay, I'll accept your motion, sir.

I uh motion to approve with the more simple of the two.

Second.

Is it further discussion?

Mr.

Chairman?

Are you it's a good idea?

Um discussion just real quick.

I I was there at the at the BRC and I understand what the applicant's trying to do with respect to keeping um vagrants off of the steps.

Um I wish that there were a better wide uh and and I I wish that um I I truly believe that it would be better for it to be in set.

Um but I again I I sort of get it, and maybe there are some we're gonna go in the direction of modern solutions.

So you know for that reason I would just support simplifying to let the original architectural elements of the building shine.

Thank you, sir.

Commissioner Savino.

Um my concerns with this one, the reason why I wanted to pull it is because I even with the uh um updated door simplified with the removal of the grapes at the top.

I still have some concerns about the gate assembly.

Um I appreciate your um negotiating that strip up there and really appreciate the the DRC that we had to see the to see that front porch area to really understand what you were working with in terms of structure in that building, going inside and seeing that beautiful, beautiful church.

My concerns are is that the very decorative ornate steel, again, separate, you know, it has it has its beauty and its aesthetic desirability, and that's not what I'm concerned about.

I'm concerned about the entryway beyond the main doors are actually quite ornate, beautiful, right?

There's gothic motif that goes with the Gothic Revival Church and the design.

Your leaded glass is very indicative of the time.

It's very arts and crafts American craft.

It's um it's something to be viewed even from a distance.

And then your front is piece over here.

What do you have?

You have the Eagle of St.

John.

That's your namesake.

That's the church's namesake is St.

John the Evangel, Evangelist.

And so to obscure that with you know, the gate and all of the decor, as beautiful as it is on its own, just seems to be taking away so much from the original design, the American craft.

So for that reason, I'm not going to be able to support the motion.

Um I think having a plan, a building plan and a porch plan, step out plan, entry plan to show exactly where the inset or where that gate is located would have been helpful in the package also to address your security concerns.

I I think there I agree there are security concerns, but I also think there are other ways to address that.

So those are my comments.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments.

May I have a roll call, please?

Ma'am in Savino.

Nay.

Galloway.

Aye.

Hi.

Holland.

I.

Nay.

And Gibbs.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Can I have item number seven, please?

Item number seven, this is HDRC case number 2025-351.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to install signage at 3428 Roosevelt.

Within this request, the applicant has proposed the following.

Uh to install internally illuminated cabinet signs to read the all-new Mustang Sally's powered by Lopez Entertainment to be located on the front facade.

The total size of the sign will be approximately 123 square feet.

Staff does not recommend approval of the request based on findings A through F.

Signage should be consistent with the historic design guidelines, guidelines for signage, and the mission historic district design manual.

Staff recommends the applicant install a sign that features no more than a 50 square feet, features indirect or halo illumination, and feature metal sign faces as to not result in signage that features face lit or internally illuminated signage elements.

The applicant, uh George Rodriguez, should be here online.

Uh George, if you'd like to unmute yourself, you'll have 15 minutes to speak.

Oh even better.

So George, if you'd like to come up and introduce yourself, you'll have uh 15 minutes as I mentioned.

Sorry.

Yes.

Yes.

And then you'll just say your name first.

Um I'm here for George.

My name is Isaac Ortiz.

Um for this uh for this address, we're proposing a sign.

So I don't know if y'all are familiar with the area or if y'all have pictures of the area.

But um can I have somebody come up with me?

Is that fine?

The owner of the can I have the owner come up with me or he knows a little bit more about the area than I do.

Um but I from what I know, and we've done research, you can look up on the news.

It's been a very unsafe area.

Um there's signs in the area that have front illuminated signs.

I we can uh make uh reverse illuminated sign, which those signs are t typically for like Stone Oak area, um like real dim areas where the sign just has a very light halo.

Um there's already several places here like Pizza Hut and Um there is a wing daddies on the corner.

There was a Mexican restaurant right next door that was called uh vitales that had a front lit sign.

Um so we're proposing a front lit sign just because of the fact that it we need a light for for safety.

Um this building had always been um written on.

So if you go back on Google Earth and you go back to pictures, it was always tagged.

Um the cops are always getting called, and so we're within the city guidelines, but we're not within the historical guidelines.

But I I would like to uh see if y'all can make a consideration just because of the safety on the in the area and of the history with the the whole the whole block.

Um good afternoon, Commissioner.

My name is Rudy Lopez.

I'm the owner to Mustang Sally Sports Lounge.

Uh Mr.

Um George and and the gentleman here are the contractors for the sign.

Um and just to uh support what he was saying.

Um I was a neighbor uh to that Mexico restaurant prior to that.

I had a burger place there.

Um and unfortunately I had to close it because I was a witness to all the crime and everything that was occurring in this uh in this corner spot here.

Um I was getting daily break-ins and I finally ended up closing that business.

And when I was uh offered this opportunity by the owner himself uh because he just could not um handle all the crime, um the unpaid rent, the tenants, the the the process with the drug addicts, uh the everything they have burglaries that was going on.

Um I took that challenge on at the end of uh 24, and I not just went in as a lease or an occupant, I actually went in to purchase the property.

Um so I am an owner occupant in that area.

Um and here before me, I went and pulled a survey just on the address of their loan for the three years prior that I had it.

Um very dark, unilluminated.

Um, in place of that big sign, there was a four by eight sign, very dark.

It was riddled with bullet bullet holes right in the front.

And I have here seven pages of of just highlight um burglary theft, uh shots in progress, burglary in progress, I mean all the crime, not not to include a lot of uh accidents, um car accidents, traffic accidents that have happened.

Um when I took that challenge, I knew that Mustang Sally's had been there for 25 years in that community in the Southside community.

We are a growing community uh with the whole Brooks renovation, uh with Pleasington Road.

Um we are also I am also a partner at the business on Southeast Military and Roosevelt in that corner at the Picapica Plaza, and uh so we have been fighting to to win our community back and and restore this uh places like this to get uh to win it back to win it back in and and of course the homelessness, the drug is we're probably never gonna beat that, but as far as us part of the community, we're gonna try our best to keep fighting that.

And since I got it, my objective was to obviously in 24, the first three months when I got it.

Uh I was very regretful, almost almost to the point of just willing to lose everything that I had invested just because of the consistent crime and and and my gate was cut every night, and and uh you know the meter, the actual CPS meter stolen copper from the main box.

us part of the community we're gonna try our best to keep fighting that and since I got it my objective was to obviously in 24 the first three months when I got it uh I was very regretful almost almost to the point of just willing to lose everything that I had invested just because of the consistent crime and and and my gate was cut every night and and um you know the meter the actual CPS meter stolen copper from the main box so what I did was I had a meeting with CPS and there's seven electric poles that that surround that whole corner and um I purchased or I made a contract with them to pay monthly for the highest illumination that they could provide for me you know of course within their guideline and we eliminated that whole corner there um and it's kind of the same that says you turn on the lights and the kind of the roaches run away that's exactly what happened there I've been fighting and fighting I lit it all up and this past year we have we have uh overcame all that that drugness all that that homelessness the the the the prostitutes that would hang in that corner um it was just it was it was very bad um and these seven pages that I had prior to me the last uh that last few of them here is since I've taken it over and this has only been a very uh I think it was like a you know very in very minor incident that that police were called but hardly no more crime um it's it's downscaled tremendously um this last year we have uh uh up you know of course uh beefed up security and the lighting and this last year I think that what was missing there was a nice front lit sign to help um not only that but as you can see we have minimal parking lot I leased the property directly across the street uh I've leased it since I acquired this property for parking for our patrons and Roosevelt is a very busy street so that also helps us cross the street here um on this other uh on my left hand here I have a report of another similar community bar in the area that unfortunately in the last three years they have had three pedestrians killed crossing the street to get to that bar um I thank God that unfortunately I have not had that but because we have great lit um uh lighting I'm sorry we have great lighting across we do provide security we have armed security off duty security that we try to help out with the traffic across the street and uh we have definitely uh invested a lot of time and and uh money and lighting and everything and I think that this last year I think that was a sign that really helped us it it it it defines that night is very lit up and of course it it has minimized crime um but we have uh not too um maybe a little off of this but um this past year that we've cleaned up the the whole area and I think that we have won that community bar back for the community um we have also been recognized as uh the best uh of 2025 South Central award winner for a cocktail bar um under Bitter Business Bureau and Google rating this past year so because we have definitely put everything into that community bar and the community has once again came out and supported us so because of Better Business Bureau and Google Review we have won this this this award here in 2025 so again I hired the contractor um I hired them I told them to make me something beautiful something that that of course um I I did I allow them to do the design uh at their at their leisure I gave them a budget and uh I was very satisfied with it and I the whole community loved it and and people were posting signs on it in social media but uh again I know that um he explained to me that that you are requiring or you are asking recommending that we get a smaller sign and not so lit in the back again in comparison to businesses in Stone Oak but but I don't think the Stone Oak businesses have you know these 10 pages of crime that that we do that we fight on a daily basis there just to try to survive and and make ends meet so again I hope that you can consider the our our lit sign we are we're also um proposing that we take off the top and the bottom to meet the square foot requirements um if it's something that y'all would be able to allow just for the crime the lighting so um I do have a design of it with uh with y'all requirements we we actually went through City San Antonio and they allowed the requirements we didn't know that it was uh historical department at the time and so when we got that back we were already we already had to sign but we're proposing to take down probably like 50% of the sign to meet to meet y'all requirements it just wouldn't be the backlit but there is other signs in the area that are back lit that are front lit.

I actually could not find one backlit sign in that whole area at all I found neon signs for the theater um but everybody else from the Pizza Hut to the Mexican restaurants everybody has a front lit sign voicemails no voice on voicemails no no voicemails today thank you um I would um we're gonna look into our question portion so I'd like the owner and the um other gentleman both to come back to the podium please yes sir I'm sorry so uh my first question um focuses on the the case itself so this is a violation case okay so you install the sign without approval okay um I had sir I'm talking please like every time it's all please listen to my question uh you can answer appropriately okay so like I say it was a violation case put the sign up without approval um now through your admission the um sign doesn't meet the UDC guidelines okay

So this is a violation case.

Okay, so you install the sign without approval.

Okay.

Um I'm talking, please.

Like every time it's all please listen to my question.

Then you can answer appropriately, okay.

So like I said, it was a violation case.

You put the sign up without approval.

Um now through your admission, the um sign doesn't meet the UDC guidelines.

Okay, you um presented several um crime to uh statistics about why um before you put the sign up, you know, what things were like and now what they're like now.

Um so my question is one you mentioned that y'all didn't know it was in a historic district.

So help me understand that part.

I submitted a permit to the city of San Antonio and I did get a uh pass.

Um, but I didn't get a so it basically when they see it, they they approved all my all my renderings.

But y'all's is a separate email, and I didn't see the email.

I didn't get it for probably like two weeks later.

We had a timeline on the project to get it done.

Um they were having an event, and I thought it was passed by the city.

I didn't know it was it was a historical by the time I saw the historical.

Since I don't do the permitting, I have it go we have a permit person that submits it.

Um I didn't see the historical part of it.

I do have a pasto from City of San Antonio, but that is pending your approval.

Well, it knows it's say pending your approval, but it always is pending your approval.

And like I said, I didn't know that that was historical.

Um so that's why it got overseen by by us.

Um for the owner, did you not know this is in the historic area?

No, we did not.

I do not know it was asked the owner, sir.

So so again, um when I purchased a property, um, there is a property beyond our back uh in the back part of it that was mentioned to be historic, but uh this property was not mentioned to be in that historic uh association or uh think Mission San Jose.

It was not so when I hired the contractor, of course.

Obviously, um I hired the contractor because I've seen his work and he's done other work at other locations.

I could not have told him put up a sign and go ahead and put it without permits.

You know, uh at this point I um I hired him as a contractor, and um I trusted that everything was in, of course, in in cooperation or or uh aligned with the city uh permits because I would not be so proud of to put up a sign that's illegal.

You know, I mean, obviously that that was their part.

Gotcha.

Thank you.

Um I have other questions, but I'm gonna yield to my um other commissioners.

Um so I'll start with my um virtual applicants.

Um Commissioner Holland, any questions for this applicant?

Thank you.

Commissioner Mazooka, any questions for the applicant?

Yes, I I was curious to know as to whether there's any other lighting of the property other than the sign illumination.

Yeah.

Um other lighting on the actual building itself, sir, or surrounding.

Um there is uh directly directly on the property.

There is seven CPS polls um that we have that I have paid for.

I pay on a monthly basis uh to have uh 25 uh thousand uh illumines on each pole.

That's that's with CPS.

I have a contract with them that I pay monthly.

And those those are like street lights?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Uh are there any lighting?

Is there any lighting under the awning of the building?

No, sir.

Um under there's an awning, yes, sir.

There's um uh recess cans that are under the uh walkway there under that black part of it.

The awning.

Oh, the awning maybe I'm I'm I'm talking about like the porch other the awning, there's a couple of uh reasons under there.

Yeah, and yes, right there.

That's not sufficient illumination to uh stave off no life.

So the CPA the CPS the CPS lights the way they're designed is they shoot light straight down signs when they're illuminated, you can see the light from the front.

So when you turn the sign off, it actually it doesn't illuminate the building itself.

So you can just see the light on the floor, but you really can't see past the building.

The building completely turns black.

I wish I had a lighted picture to show you, but well, you know, one thing that might change that is if you had spotlights from the awning directly onto that sign without interior illumination.

Just a thought.

Okay, okay, like on top of that little roof, like directly to the sign itself.

Yes, okay.

From both sides and the middle, and it would show up directly the white and the and the writing.

Yes, sir.

Like um, or you were showing that little awning there.

That's the you can't really see it on the picture, but there's about a uh like a four or five foot uh little roof right there, and there's lighting underneath for the walkway, but like you said, not directly to the sign.

Yeah.

I I was thinking of focused spotlights directly on the sign from that.

The way Bill Miller is there?

Yes, sir, yes, sir.

Like flood lighting.

A light from above.

It wouldn't be the same type of illumination, but that that probably could be is an option.

Um it wouldn't give the same type of illumination, but it would light up.

It'd be kind of like the Bill Miller's, not the newer Bill Millers, but the older Bill Millers.

They have um a sign on a wall, and then the light shines to them, which are not illuminated, but it still doesn't give off like this like enough lighting or the same amount of light.

Well, perhaps your lighting your signer could figure out how to illuminate it that way.

That's all.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Um Commissioner Givata?

Uh no questions right now, sir.

Thank you, Commissioner Chavyaso.

Questions at this time?

Thank you.

Commissioner Savino.

Um, yeah, so your proposed what for the applicant um for your proposed signage if you were to remove the top band and the below powered by Lopez Entertainment.

We're still looking at a sign that's about a hundred square feet, right?

Um is that what you're coming up with?

From our calculations, it was uh it was less than that.

Or 94.

Um approximately right, right?

94 and some shades.

Right, so just so I'm in the right hall park, right?

Yeah, a little under.

It is okay.

Um and the reason why, and and let me come back to um uh the name itself.

Um, of course, I would have gotten a a new name right for for the place, but again, that has been a community bar there for over 26 years now.

And um so I wanted to put emphasis that it's the all-new.

Like it's been here, we're still community, we're still side south side, but but it's the all-new, you know, come in and try us.

Like don't don't don't be afraid.

And that's why I put emphasis on that, the all-new.

Um the Lopez Entertainment is my company that again I own several businesses in the area.

Um, and that's just a brand that we have that they they feel comfortable with uh in the community.

And that's why that part of it is is kind of uh uh more uh to to describe the the the meaning of still Mustang, but it's the all-new.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Maman.

No questions, Chair.

Thank you.

Commissioner Galloway.

I have a quick question for staff.

Um and uh pardon my uh ignorance on this.

Uh so uh the the signage uh measurement or the you know the restrictions is because the sign is on the building, is that correct?

Because I pulled up Google Maps and looked around the neighbor uh looked right across the street, and there's several large like signs that look like they're illuminated, but they're on like pillars or something like that.

Can you clarify that for me?

Sure.

Oftentimes when you see larger signs that currently exists, they were pre-existing signs that were just refaced.

So we would have to look at those specific properties to really know the history of that sign installation.

Uh but for any property that is um subject to the historic design guidelines, signage should not exceed 50 square feet.

Yep.

And I um just just to um uh support that um directly across from us, uh there's two different uh Jaliscos, Takeria Jaliscos.

Um one of them uh recently uh uh had a fire and he put a new sign, and it's it's way bigger than mine.

And right in front of Pika, there's another taquería Jalisco, and that was not a refase.

That's a brand new sign, and that that's that is like three times bigger than mine.

I mean it's huge, and there's one on the building, one on the on the actual pole, and then one on the side showing the drive-thru too, and and they're humongous.

Um there's also right around the corner, which is also in the historic, uh, there's the uh drive-through.

Um it's called the drive-through liquor uh margarita barn or what is it called?

Uh beer and all drive-through.

And um they also have a brand new uh frontlet huge sign that that that has been passed through uh historical commission previously.

Thank you.

Um Vice Sheriff Etser.

Yes.

Um I see some other signage on the building.

Uh there's some in the windows on either side of the door.

Are those illuminated?

No.

Uh no, sir.

That um that actually is just uh uh it's like a vinyl, it there's glass there.

And um, so we covered it, so the temptation of them breaking the glass.

Actually, one of them had a small bullet hole prior to it, so we replaced it.

We covered it, but that's just uh vinyl sticker on there.

Um there's one on the side.

Uh there's a box that's not lit up, it's on the side there.

You can see that one had an old banner there.

Um that was one of the original that was there, and I just never touched that one.

That one's still been there.

But that one's not illuminated.

No, it's not illuminated.

Okay.

Um this one, knowing that again, you're you're improving the neighborhood and you're dealing with um uh uh crime issues, but having the additional illumination from CPS on the pole lights.

Um obviously has helped your your situation and having lights uh under the the little awning.

Uh perhaps that could be enhanced so that the lower part of the wall is brighter.

Um then uh just um I think Commissioner Mazuka's um suggestion of lighting the sign from the canopy rather than internally lit has some uh advantages to um uh being more in line with the guidelines.

Okay.

And also just to make a note um directly, uh the CPS lights that are on there again, as you mentioned, uh it is uh almost direct to the bottom, and the reason for that was more to light it up, but more for the parking area, what very minimal parking that we have there.

That front sign since it's been illuminated, it it kind of lights up front, and the patrons park directly across the street, so they walked that, so that's that's a lot it's been a lot of help um just for that area.

And again, um it's not it's not the sign that was up on top originally.

Um I had to actually put a banner over it because again it was it had bullet holes in it, just how was I gonna make a statement to make a new Mustang Sally's when you walk in and directly there's some bullet holes they're like uh let me make a U turn and I'm gonna leave, right?

And so I kind of wanted to change the whole appearance of it and make them feel safe.

But that was the the whole project with the the new sign, but it is eliminated front, so it does help the patrons where they park across the street.

Again, being just for the safety of my customers.

Um I don't, you know, I don't want to have a statistic like this other bar and come on the news that I I should have, could have, and I wish that I would have saved somebody's life.

So at this point we have not had a fatality or not have an accident.

Um but but it's proven it's right around the corner where where they have had uh several fatalities doing the same similar situation as mine.

Okay.

Question for staff.

Um the additional signage is on the windows.

Is that taken into account in in terms of total signage for the building?

I don't believe that has been reviewed as part of this uh recommendation request.

But generally, yes, so any additional signage would be included.

Um that oftentimes includes window signage, but staff can review that separately.

Okay, thank you.

Um the the parking lot lights from the city have been there for a while.

And there's uh been a dramatic change in the in the criminal activity since the sign got put up.

Because those lights have been there since when he first got to bar, and we installed the sign about four months ago, five months ago, and there's been a big improvement in the amount of uh stuff going on at the bar, break-ins in the cars and stuff like that.

And I and I and I think I think we've we've already talked about that right several uh quite a bit.

And again, it's just for the safety of the community.

I just feel that that that sign should be lit up nice and bright and um directly across to the left, there's two huge abandoned buildings that have been there for at least um 20 years, and they are completely dark, uh completely dark.

There's no illumination, and uh since then a lot of the homelessness have moved in there and there's every weekend there's cons uh consistent fires and you know and thefts and and uh all kinds of crime there.

So um they kind of stay directly down the street, not uh not not near us anymore.

Um but those buildings are actually right directly across from the mission San Jose um uh property there.

Thank you.

Um everyone's had opportunity for questions.

I may have a motion, please.

Mr.

Chair, I'll make a motion to um support staff's recommendations second.

Second further discussion, please.

Um I would well my thoughts are that there are a number of solutions here, a number of good solutions to address your security issue, your visibility issue with the business.

We need to take into account the window signage.

It looks like there's signage on the north side of the building as well that does need to be taken into account.

And I think with all of that information, it just needs to go back to the drawing board.

Thank you.

Um I'll do go around for my rest of my commissioners.

Um first my virtual applicants, I mean virtual commissioners.

Um Commissioner Howland, any um comments for the applicant?

No comments, thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Mazooka.

No, other than to consider other options.

Thank you, sir.

Commissioner Gibotter.

Uh no discussion right now, sir.

Thank you.

Commissioner Charvioso.

No discussion at this time.

Thank you, Commissioner Mammon.

No comment, Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner Galloway.

Um, my only comment is that um, you know, I still looking at the Google map.

I went back to 2016, the hometown burger that's three doors down, has a giant sign, like the same size that's that's the sign.

So I I recognize that while it's out of code and it's a violation case, uh the neighborhood is um is sort of conforming to this.

So I I'm gonna vote no uh on the the proposal.

Thank you, sir.

Vice Chair Fetcher.

Um I'll be supporting the motion.

I think that uh there are other options and since there are other signage elements on the building that it uh the whole signage package needs to be uh looked at as a complete uh submittal.

Thank you, sir.

And um I too um am going to support the motion and the reason being is because you've um you've you've made your case um by well you've made a case of trying to describe or explain the signage away because of the crime in the area.

Um but we're focused on the sign.

The sign that doesn't meet the guidelines, the sign that's a violation case, okay.

It's great that you have you know illumination from the um the city light poles for CPS and that you have you know um security and things that nature, but I agree with my fellow commissioners, especially um with Commissioner Savino stated, you know, that there are other options and there are other mitigation efforts that you can do.

Um but the I don't think you've made your case when it comes to the signage because explaining the crime and explaining the signage this they don't they don't really mesh together for us.

So um so for that um reason I'll be supporting this motion.

So sure, you can ask the question, clear sir.

Um if there's a way we can go back to the drawing board and figure out how to how to do a light that faces a sign instead of the sign lighting up, would that be an option?

I suggest that when you go back to the drawing board that you focus on what the guidelines states, and if if you if you focus on what the guidelines states, um then you're gonna be fine.

So the guideline states that it's not gonna be not not illuminated and a quarter of the size.

That would be the guideline.

Yes, sir.

Not not illuminated at all.

Um a quarter of the sign.

But there's I mean there's other people that got permits all around the area that have lighted signs.

I don't think it's fair, especially especially because it's a bar.

If it was a car lot that's closed at night, if it was any other place that was closed at night that wouldn't couldn't cause possible death.

I mean, I would I would say I mean that that's I mean at the end of the day, we're at your mercy, but I think it's important to the place that's open until two o'clock in the morning.

So you have um you have many options available to you.

We are an advisory board appointed by city council to to um help enforce the U to C guidelines.

Now whatever the outcome of this vote today, you have you have remedies.

Okay, so if you if this doesn't go in your favor, you can um you can come back again, you can try to you know uh uh adhere to the guidelines.

If you don't want to go there, you can always um follow an appeal.

Okay, so it is you is really your option, but just understand that we have guidelines to follow, and then that's what our purview is here to focus on that.

So the option that um one of uh the boards had said to where we could possibly leave the sign and and make it illuminated like Bill Miller's or something that's not open late, is that not an option or so here what we're gonna do and and I don't we're it's not for us to design your sign for you.

Yes, sir.

Okay, so again, I just want to be clear.

We're focused on the U to C guidelines.

Staff provided guidance on what the sign should look like, how it should fall within the parameters, and if you do that, then you're then you're gonna be fine.

Okay, because you could really it didn't even have to come to us if you fell into that guideline, but um it's a violation, okay, and you didn't fall within that.

So if you can modify it to fall within the guidelines, then you're gonna be fine.

If not, then changes need to be made, or again, you can file an appeal if this doesn't go the way that you would like it to go.

Okay, so we can go back and design it and we can come back here or you uh we get with staff.

But that'll work.

Yeah, and again, just last consideration.

I mean uh this sign you know was over thirty thousand dollars, you know, and it's gonna definitely put us put me in a big setback too as well.

So um, you know, I you don't just tear down that sign and just throw it away.

So again, just in consideration, I know what you're focused on, but so um I hear you when it comes to the amount of money you spent on a sign.

However, you're in a historic area, you didn't follow the guidelines, and the sign is out of compliance.

So um I appreciate your comments, I appreciate your comments.

So um we've given you a chance to present your case, and then so now we're gonna take a vote and then we'll see how it goes.

Okay, thank you.

May I have a roll call, please?

Savino.

Hi.

Galloway.

Mazuka.

Hi.

Holland.

Fetzer?

Aye.

And Gibbs.

All right.

Motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Item number eight, please.

So commissioners, this is item number eight, HDRC case 2026-055.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to construct an approximately 375 square foot detached garage with an approximately 288 square foot covered porch at the rear of the property.

Agent, can I stop you for a second?

Yes, sir.

Um can you all take a conversation outside, please?

Thank you.

Sir sorry your case is over, sir.

Please, thank you.

So I'll I'll repeat the request, Commissioners.

So the request is for the applicant.

Uh the request the applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to construct an approximately 375 square foot detached garage with an approximately 288 square foot covered porch at the rear of the property.

Staff recommends conceptual approval based on findings A through G with the following stipulations.

One that the applicant provides detailed and accurate construction ready drawings for the proposed rear accessory structure to include elevations.

Two, that the applicant provide full window and door specifications that meet staff standard window stipulations, that the windows should feature an inset of two inches within facades and should feature profiles that are found historically within the immediate vicinity.

Meeting rails must be no taller than one and a quarter inch and styles no wider than two and a quarter inch.

White manufacturers color is not allowed, and color selection must be presented to staff.

There should be a minimum of two inches in depth between the front face of the window trim and the front face of the top window sash.

This must be accomplished by recessing the window sufficiently within the opening or with the installation of additional window trim to add thickness.

Window trim must feature traditional dimensions and architecturally appropriate sill detail.

Window track components must be painted to match the window trim or concealed by a wood window screen set within the opening.

And third, that the applicant meets all setback standards as required by city zoning and obtain a variance from the board of adjustment if applicable.

Thank you.

Um is Adrian Zamudio.

Just trying to build a just a garage structure pretty much to I'm moving in from New Bromfels, Texas, moving in from a house probably three times the size of this house.

And I'm definitely not gonna be able to fit everything from that house into this little house.

And um I need some storage space basically.

That's pretty much it, sir.

That's pretty much it, man.

Okay.

Sounds good.

All right, no voicemails for this case.

No commissioner, no voicemails or letters for this one.

Thank you.

Commissioner Holland, any questions?

Did he respond?

Commissioner Holland, can you hear?

You're muted, Commissioner.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Commissioner, Mazooka.

No questions.

Thank you, Commissioner Gueva.

No questions right now, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Commissioner CharbySo.

No questions at this time.

Thank you.

Commissioner Sabino.

Yes, I have some questions.

Let's see.

Typically we don't ask for cons or the UDC and the guidelines don't ask for construction ready drawings.

Okay.

I know that the package here is really, really incomplete from a number of standpoints.

And I'll address that in a second.

But to the stipulation, construction ready drawings.

Sure, Commissioner.

So we intend to, of course, come back with this request for final approval.

And so our aim is to basically provide detailed information for you all to be able to consider final approval.

So for us, what we're asking for is you know traditional elevation drawings that are accurate that have all of the measurements to um reflect basically what the final outcome will be.

And so just elevations then.

Do you need uh do you need a site plan?

Do you need a plan?

Yes.

Any window scheduled?

What is it that so we want we want a site plan and we want elevations to basically reflect um again all all sides of the garage as well as all the material specifications?

Okay.

Okay.

Um more questions.

Thank you, Commissioner Mammon.

Uh question for the applicant.

Do you agree with the with the some of the contractors that I work for that do some work here in the historic district told me anything under a thousand square feet, you don't have to pull any kind of drawings for that.

But I have no problem with it.

I've got to pull some, I'll pull some.

It's really not a problem.

So of their recommendations, that's the only one that you question.

Yeah, I mean he I I know about all the I mean on the on the materials that you guys wanted.

I mean, I he gave me a list of it, and we'll follow the guidelines.

So thank you, Commissioner Galloway.

No questions.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Fesser.

Yes.

Um specific questions, and I'm ready to make a motion.

Yes, sir.

I move for uh conceptual approval with all of staff stipulations.

Second.

Yes, uh, I agree with staff that uh we need more information on what you're proposing.

Uh there's some conflicting information that was submitted.

Uh there's a vinyl window and then there's a clad wood window.

There's the siding with uh wood grain uh which is not in the guidelines as opposed to a flat uh smooth finish.

Both of those are in the submittal.

So I think clarification uh in the final submittal uh with uh measure drawings and a uh dimension site plan and um details for uh the windows and doors in that I think would be appropriate.

Okay.

Yes, Commissioner, and just to clarify, I'll we'll of course work with the applicant on that.

But you know, as we were discussing, you know what what we would uh be a you know be consistent with the guidelines and what wouldn't, that's where those updated details kind of came in.

So it was a little bit of an evolution based on our discussion of what is appropriate and what is not for a historic district.

Some of the stuff I was updating to the website you said wasn't so I started emailing like on a different email.

And yes, we started sending in stuff from what they were asking me to update.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, I'd like to uh continue with that line of thought, including just be really um I think it's important to be really specific about the site plan and the locating the building relative not only to the property lines but also to the other structures on the property, which brings me to something that I think we typically want to see in order to determine whether materials, details, anything is compatible with the primary building.

We need to see that primary building.

We need to see all four elevations in a photograph or in photographs of the existing building.

So if that could be added to the application, that would be really helpful.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Um virtual commissioners, um Commissioner Pala.

Any um comments?

Commissioner Holland.

Yeah, he looks forward.

Um Commissioner Mazuka.

Okay.

Commissioner Charlie.

Not at this time, sir.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner Mammon.

No comments.

Commissioner Galloway.

No comments, thank you.

Um Vice Chair Petcher.

I'm fine, thanks.

Thank you, and Sabino.

Any farther than once?

Thank you.

Um, since we don't have our virtual advocates at the moment, I mean virtual commissioner at the moment.

Um may I have a roll call, please.

Mammon.

Hi.

Savino.

Aye.

Galloway.

Aye.

Um I'll skip the virtual commissioners for now.

Travieso?

Aye.

Fetzer?

Hi.

And Gibbs.

Hi.

Motion carries.

Motion carries, thank you.

Okay, well, thank you.

Thank you.

Item number nine, please.

I'm sorry, Commissioners.

I'm trying to get it to open, but it's having issues.

So if may I suggest uh a brief pause just to see if we can get the the virtual uh commissioners going.

Um it looks like the case file did up did up uh finally show, so I'll leave it to you.

Uh sir, sir.

Sorry, I was so are we ready or you can approach it?

Commissioner, this is up to you.

Um we've got the files up, but um, you know, the WebEx for the virtual commissioners, it seems to have again had some kind of an issue.

Gotcha.

If you would like, we can um re reboot it.

Hopefully it won't take too long.

Um that's that's of course your call, sir.

That'd be great.

Um time is now 408.

We'll stay in a recess for five minutes.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Um time is now 416, and we are back in session.

So um Adrian, you can continue.

Okay.

Let me just go ahead and Commissioner.

All right, Commissioner.

So we're we're back online.

Thank you so much for waiting.

So this is item number nine, uh HDRC case 2026-048.

The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to construct an approximately 500 square foot rear addition to the primary structure.

Staff recommends approval based on findings A through J with the following stipulations.

Number one, that the applicant extend to the historic gabled roof form to the rear rather than the proposed roof form and eliminate the dormer.

Staff recommends that the proposed shed roof not modify the historic structure's primary roof form.

Two, that the applicant install a vertical wood trim piece to denote the division between the original structure and the addition.

Three, that the applicant submit to staff updated documents, including elevation drawings reflecting the historic gabled roof extension and shed roof without the dormer, as well as the vertical wood trim piece between the original structure and the addition.

Four, that the applicant reuse and incorporate any existing salvageable wood siding on site.

Five, that the applicant installed a standing seam metal roof featuring panels that are 18 to 21 inches wide, seams that are one to two inches high, a crimp ridge seam, and match the current finish or standard gavaloon finish.

Panels should be smooth without striation or corrugation.

Ridges are to feature a double muncher crimp ridge configuration, no vintage ridge caps or end caps are allowed.

All chimney flu and related existing roof details from the uh historic roof should be preserved.

An inspection must be scheduled with OHP staff prior to the start of work to verify that the roofing material matches the approved specifications.

Six that the applicant installs fully wood windows as submitted, and that meets staff's standard window stipulations.

The windows should feature an instead of two inches within facades and should and should feature profiles that are found historically within the immediate vicinity.

Meeting rails must be no taller than an inch and a quarter, and styles no wider than two inches and a quarter.

White manufacturer's color is not allowed, and color selection must be presented to staff.

There should be a minimum of two inches in depth between the front face of the window trim and front face of the top window sash.

This must be accomplished by recessing the window sufficiently within the opening or with the installation of additional window trim.

Window trim must feature traditional dimensions and architecturally appropriate sill detail.

Window track components must be painted to match the window trim or concealed by a wood window screen set within the opening.

And seven, that the applicant meets all setback standards as required by city zoning and obtain a variance from the board of adjustment if applicable.

There is a letter from the King William Association supporting staff stipulations as well as an updated uh document, an updated elevation document in your late folder.

Thank you, Commissioners.

And the applicant Chris Coker is here in person.

So Chris, if you'd like to come up and introduce yourself, you'll have 15 minutes to present your request.

And then I can um you know scroll back and forth between the original documents or the new ones as you'd like.

Just let me know.

Okay.

Hey, uh good afternoon.

My name is Chris Coker.

Uh this is my property.

Well, I haven't been in here in front of you guys in many years.

It's been 2021 since the last time I've been in here.

I'm no stranger to historic.

Uh I work with staff on quite a few projects as historics kind of my thing, so uh I have a bad habit of it.

Um so what I'm requesting today, and I've been working with them uh even prior to purchasing this property.

Um, is adding an addition to the rear of this house.

There's already an addition in place.

Um the addition is um uh not historic in nature, was added later.

Uh part of it has uh a concrete flooring.

So, anyways, what I want to add is 500 square feet as it sits now.

The house is a thousand six square feet.

Uh we want to add 500 to the rear side and bring it up to be pure and beam just like the rest of the house to uh match the historic nature of it.

Um so the original discussions that I had with staff um was that will you take me to the original proposed the original with the um the one with the gable?

Um I've got finish with the one that y'all recommend.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um so going by historic guidelines, you know initially, so staff's recommendations that the get the gable on the left-hand side of that run all the way to the rear of the addition.

I'm fine with that.

Um I didn't do that actually in this initial because I know that historic wants to see a distinguished uh line of demarcation between the original structure and the new structure.

So I didn't think that the gable being extended all the way to the back would be something that would be supported by staff.

So this was the design that I came up with.

Um one of the things so I like either either of the ones that I'm gonna present to you today.

So I'm I'm really I kind of like this one better just because I like the the distinguishment between the original um house and the addition, how the roof flows to the rear, but I'm also like a uh dormer junkie, so uh I just love how it kind of breaks up the flow of the roof and adds an element of dimension to the properties.

Um historic have some sort of dormer on them.

Um so that was kind of the design, the concept of this um this one.

I I agree with all the staff's recommendations as far as the um the uh materials and everything like that.

That's generally not generally, that's I mean what we do on every project.

So it'd be uh the metal roof, one inch, uh, one to two inch standing seam, crimped, um, and uh in the proposal.

The addition would have um approved pillow wood clad windows on them to match um the design of the the originals on the front of the house.

However, the um the original, not the original windows.

There's a couple spots on the if you'll show yeah, that one, um, where we want to put original windows in.

So we'll we will I'll have my um wood my window guide do exactly the same window as this, but put them back in where they were taken out from the previous owner.

approved pillow wood clad windows on them to match um the design of the the originals on the front of the house however the um the original well i'm sorry not the original windows there's a couple spots on the if you'll show yeah that one um where we want to put original windows in so we'll we will I'll have my um would my window guide do exactly the same window as this but put them back in where they were taken out from the previous owner so um so there's one spot to the right of the front door entrance where something was taken out was probably a door but because there's already a door there I'd put it replace it with a window exactly like the one that's to the left of the front door um and then also um the one down the right hand side as y'all saw it had um looked pretty obvious where it was removed I want to put that one back um obviously like kind quality materials um what else maybe we should go to the new one so having worked with staff on that first design um when they came to give the recommendations I think it was last week um middle of last week they said after extensive um discussions about it they prefer to do the gable all the way to the rear um so I asked my architect if he can get me some sort of rendering prior to today so this is what he got me and they wanted so on the original one we did an inset where the addition was to distinguish between new and old um however this one staff recommended that we move the wall back out and just put a one by four trim I've done it both ways on any project I'm not opposed to either one um so uh let's go to the right rear corner yeah so this is the other side um this is I just got these renderings today and so I did discuss with Adrian this morning that the roof line is not how staff would recommend it and I understand that I just did not have enough time to go back to my architect and ask him to redo that in order to give the the proper one for today's um hearing so uh part of staff recommendation is that I don't alter the original structure uh of the roof and so what I would do is I'd bring the top of that I might as well use my pointer since I bought one I would bring the top of that guy down to somewhere in here to match this roof line um and what'd we say like right below it I think yeah would probably look best to start it like right below that ex that roof line and then work its way back.

So this this actual roof slope here and so I'm doing a little bit of research on this and talking to my contractor about it.

The one inch one to two inch standing seam metal roofs with the mechanical crimp on it generally can be taken down to like a quarter inch slope so quarter inch 12 on it this one shows which I don't know that I'm super comfortable with that um I had recommended a 312 this is actually a two and a half twelve so we see how much because there's a large span there's like a 60 inch difference between the top of that and the bottom down here.

That's a a very large difference.

I think I can get that slope down I'm I'm hoping maybe an inch or so one twelve something like that to be more along the this uh lines of a shed roof which was actually requested anyways correct uh shed style roof so that would be like the only alteration to this that that I don't have an iteration of to actually show y'all um but besides that chimneys will stay in place um I think I kind of covered everything there so I'll I'll take any questions y'all may have on that thank you sir um we'll start off with our virtual commissioners for questions for the applicant um commissioner givata questions no questions right now Mr.

Chair thank you commissioner masooka no questions but I'm I'm inclined to um to agree with this proposal the new designs I think they look great thank you sir appreciate it um commissioner howling questions thank you thank you commissioner yes oh uh I have a question point of question actually the home that I'm here on the screen is along the proposition to build one between onto the onto the rear of it yes to the driveway there is a there's an alleyway in the rear yeah uh there is and commissioner just to clarify it's a it's a rear addition to the existing house so it'll be part of the structure not not a second house behind it.

And commissioner, just to clarify, it's a it's a rear addition to the existing house, so it'll be part of the structure, not a second house behind it.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Commissioner Sabino.

Oh, yeah.

I have some um I have a question, but I'm gonna preface it with a long observation.

I think part of your the awkwardness of the design is um that you're struggling with, especially on that one um gable end and where you've got a shed coming in, as well as the opposite side.

But that it looks like on the original you um didn't have is this flush condition.

Flush going from front to back from the main house to the addition.

Before it looked like it popped in a little bit, yeah, right?

Now it's flush, and I think that's what's giving us a difficult time in acknowledging the original house for the addition.

If you were to, you know, kind of come in about a foot on either side, then whatever additional roof, whether it's the long gable or the shed, it the long gable would just sit a little bit lower so it doesn't tie into the main gable.

Because often times when we have extruded gables that have been added on over time, you can see the shifting, the structural shifting in the roof.

But what if you were to yeah, turn it under and do your shed roof?

Your shed roof would then attach to your gable that's been fully expressed on the end, because you have a corner because you've turned it, you've turned the corner.

And then it'll look like an addition.

I know I've got it coming to sketched out here.

Oh, do you but uh but to the question would you be amenable to um going to a design review committee so that we could work on that?

Um as a matter of time would be the only reason that I would oppose that.

And I and not to say that I would oppose it.

Um because I I in a way kind of work through it, the process with staff ahead of time to try to come to a um what the staff desired.

Um but when I say time, it's just time is money.

Right, right.

And I under I understand that I think there's I'm not opposed to it, but there's a difficulty in putting something like that in a stipulation for one thing.

And I'm looking at it not as how expeditious is it for staff, but rather for how is this going to wear over time?

And how will it be legible as an addition to the main house?

So if you would notice, so part of what you're asking is about the inset or the straight side.

Umriginally we just well, I don't know if it was you and I that discussed the inset, did we?

Yeah.

So uh we discussed the in set, we added it.

Staff recommended, staff said, and so I added it, and you would see that in this correct iteration here.

Uh huh.

Um, which I I mean I like the NSA.

Uh I'm not I don't know that I have a strong opinion either way, whether it's the NSAT or the one by four.

But what I'm taking from what you're saying is that if we did the the last iteration of the drawing where the gable roof is all the way extended, you're saying that because of the wear over time, you could start to see the the difference in the the roof line.

You will.

You will see it.

And especially on an elevation that is so prominent, and that you want it to be consistent and as as perfect as possible, it might be worth taking that extra strap step and dropping it down a little bit.

So you're saying just in the rear side like right here, dropping the gable maybe a foot down below where the that gable ends.

No, you're using the your late drawings.

Your most recent drawing, not this one.

So this is what a DRC can be useful for.

Um if we use your look at the newest drawing, there you go.

That gable, the new gable would sit below the original gable.

That's what I'm saying.

Yes.

So you're saying like a foot, but start it like a foot below the original or something like that.

I think a foot would give you enough space to do work.

That's funny because that was my original idea with my architect.

And he and I for some reason we got away from that.

I don't know why, but uh I think what it had to do with was maybe the shed style roof on the other side um having an issue with something having to do with that.

You could do the same thing on that to where your shed roof because it is set in, merely kind of attaches here.

It's not a blending of shapes and forms.

It's attaching separately.

Right.

Anyway, and what it does is it also allows the original historic volumes to read accurately rather than this amalgam of stuff.

I will say if I can add to that, I have a tendency to make these historic properties look fantastic.

So it's none of my properties look like just a mush of stuff together.

They're they're very distinguishable, very historic in nature, uh all guidelines having been followed.

They are very admired by many people.

I will say that.

So yeah, not to get too far, but the question is, are you amenable to a DRC for something like that?

I would be, but I'd prefer I'd prefer not to.

Okay.

That's my decision on that.

Thank you.

Commissioner Mammon.

No questions.

Thank you, Commissioner Galloway.

No questions.

Thank you.

Vice Chair Fetzer?

Yes, I was the same thing whether you'd be an amenable to a DRC.

I've sketched some things here for a roof, Commissioner Seveno has sketched some things for a roof, and it's a little we don't want to design it here for you.

We need, but we need uh I think some more time to discuss it.

And if you uh have your architect there uh for the DRC, I think um we might be able to get to a to a solution that would uh meet the guidelines as well as be something you'd be proud to uh restore and construct.

I would ask, do I not currently meet the guidelines if I'm agreeing to all of staff stipulations?

So keep in mind, I I think that I'm doing myself a disjust uh disservice by actually showing this to where that roof line is up there, because I think when you bring that down to where it's more shed style, that all this really looks really well together.

Um and along the lines of what everyone would prefer.

So that would be that would be what I say about that.

We had a lot of discussion when coming to this.

So it wasn't, you know, we didn't quickly throw this together.

Um I spent a lot of time myself going through a bunch of different designs and historical neighborhoods, looking at the roof lines, pitches and everything of of what we have around here.

This one's in Nathan Historic District.

So of course it's not very big.

Nathan is not.

Um so I did have to branch out over to King William and uh La Vaca as well.

But that being said, a lot of thought did go into it.

So I I think maybe that I'm just presuming that this top portion here is throwing it off a little bit, we will bring that down and it will look um very specific to our to the neighborhood.

Commissioner Sabino.

Um the shed roof is what is problematic, especially at that size.

So you're saying you're going to continue the gable down and attach it a little bit lower.

It's still well, then by that point it's almost a flat roof, which is more of an aberration for a historic house.

So a possibility is um uh turning that whole area into a hip roof, which would allow you to raise the the plate a little bit higher and engage that roof a little higher up, but that's a whole nother idea.

What do you think of the first design that I had then?

Well, there uh uh the drawing, the roof plan I think looks different than the rendering, so I don't know exactly what was for this one here.

Yeah, no.

This is the you've got a a strange collision between two gable roof forms.

Um but anyway, that's a DRC thing.

Thank you.

Um may I have a motion, please?

Um sure.

I'll make a motion to um uh refer this to a DRC for further discussion to solve the roof forms.

Second.

It's been more than properly second um further discussion.

I'll just say it just for the reasons we talked about there.

There are lots of good uh opportunities there, and I know time is money, but also how something gets framed, it could be framed a little bit more um uh there could be a way to frame it more efficiently too, which is money too.

I'm not gonna take as much time in for last quick blurb as the last guest did or the one prior to that, but I I would also say that I've out of all the projects I've done, I've never had um the neighborhood association support uh my original iteration of something.

And so I think that uh King William supported um all the staff's recommendations.

I think that should carry some weight.

Thank you, sir.

Um I make uh Mr.

Chair, may I make a recommendation at this point?

Can we uh maybe to facilitate this, um recommend a time certainty, maybe the next available um DRC?

Yes, I would make that for next week the next available DRC, which would be next week.

Second concur.

Yes, second concurs, and then um get you in next week for the the DRC, and then you'd be on the agenda for the next agenda, which would be the 18th.

If I do, um so when we meet for a DRC, we come to a conclusion on something for the next HDRC agenda.

Would we would I still have to present or could I be on the consent?

So call for staff.

Yes, so that would just depend on you know our recommendation if we if we can recommend it as submitted, you know, or with stipulations that you agree to fully, then usually that leads to it being on the consent agenda.

Got it.

I agree to all your stipulations as is right now, so but that's fine.

Um thank you.

Um final comments, um Commissioner Gubata.

No comment right now, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner Mazuka.

None.

Thank you, Commissioner Holland.

No comments, thanks.

Thank you, Commissioner Charieso.

No comment.

Thank you, Commissioner Mammon.

No comment.

Commissioner Galloway, no comments.

No comments.

Thank you.

May I have a roll call, please?

Mahmin.

Aye.

Savino.

Aye.

Galloway?

Aye.

Mazuka.

Aye.

Givara.

Aye.

So aye.

Holland.

Aye.

Fetzer?

Aye.

And Gibbs.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

That was the last case on the agenda.

Thank you for everyone.

We are adjourned.

So uh next.