Good evening, everybody.

This is the joint uh committee meeting on school buildings, facilities, and maintenance.

Uh, we're here together with the school committee.

Um, I am Jesse Klingon, the chair of this committee.

It is now 6.02 p.m.

We're starting this meeting first with the um a little blurb that we read in order to be able to hold this meeting remotely.

Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

Uh that being said, um, could you please, Madam Clerk?

Could you please call the role to establish quorum?

Yep.

This is roll call.

Counselor Say here.

Counselor Davis.

Here.

Chair Klingon.

Present.

All right, with that, everyone is here and we do have quorum.

All right, excellent.

I am going to now turn it over to the school committee so they can uh establish quorum and open their meeting.

Thank you, Councillor Klingon.

This is Le Ron Bitone, Chair uh for the school committee's um subcommittee of the same name.

Uh I am establishing quorum here at 603.

Uh Sarah Phillips, are you here?

Laura Patone.

Are you here yet?

Not yet.

Okay.

Uh so we have quorum with two of three.

And I will turn it back to you, Councilor Clingen.

Okay, excellent.

Um we have a few things on the agenda.

Um, there are attached memos to the agenda for some of them.

Um the first item we have I will lay on the table.

That's the approval of the minutes of the school buildings facility maintenance special committee meeting of September 15th.

Uh we'll lay that on the table for approval at the end of the meeting.

Um item two, which is a standing update uh regarding uh that the administration provide the special committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates, both the Massachusetts school building authority process for the Winter Hill and Brown schools.

So I um have not watched the meeting.

I, you know, I I wasn't gonna have this on the agenda because I didn't know what type of if there would be a substantial update of any time, but I guess um since we we did put this meeting after the uh the CAG meeting, the citizen uh construction advisory group.

Um that I guess I'm not sure what happened at the meeting last night, but I know we have staff here to speak up uh to give an update or speak on this item.

So I see um Leia Zanaradassi's hand up.

Uh go right ahead.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I just I was wondering if we'd be able to take item four actually out of order.

Uh Director Blaze has a time constraint, and I was just hoping if it's not too much trouble.

Not a problem.

Thank you.

All right.

So Madam Clerk, we'll jump to item four, which is uh that the administration released the report on the school department composting pilot program and the commission of public commissioner public works update this council on any plans to reintroduce composting in the schools.

So there um there is a memo attached.

Uh it's a pretty lengthy memo, and we also have staff here to speak on this.

Um director Blaze is here.

I don't know if um I'll just say on this, uh, you know, this is something that's been, you know, uh important to all of us as a council.

Uh this effort really started back in 2018 by then counselor at large Hirsch, um, who really uh was very passionate about making this happen, you know, to the point where she would bring in trays with uh you know, with the with trash and leftover um food waste and you know, just wanted to to be the uh being you know responsible in our schools for making sure that we're um doing our part as far as composting and uh uh recycling.

So that said, um there was a pilot for a number of years.

Um one or one of the schools or or more than one, maybe, but um and so now you know we we're we're once again asking uh pushing for this uh to happen.

So Director Blaze, I'll turn it over to you.

Uh through you, thank you very much.

Um happy to be here.

I'm Christine Blaze, I'm the director of the mayor's office of sustainability and environment.

Um speaking on behalf of this um item.

And uh the memo, uh I can I can summarize it and maybe that and kind of do some table setting, and maybe that's the best place to start.

Um, you know, happy to take any questions, of course, too.

Um between 20, uh I I should clarify too.

So for I think about five months between 2018 and 2019, um OSE and the Department of Public Works ran a cafe cafeteria composting pilot inside four Somerville public schools.

And the pilot was uh analyzed by an intern who reported out um some findings about um contamination, about popularity, um, about operations, and made some recommendations on how to expand and improve on the pilot in the future so that we could take it out of its pilot phase and um you know institutionalize it.

Um that analysis also determined that additional personnel and resources would be required to maintain and expand the program.

And of course, that all came out kind of mid 2019.

And of course, we all know beginning of 2020, the pandemic emerged, our priorities and resources kind of shifted.

And at the time it was decided not to expand the front of the house, what I'm what I'm calling the front of the house program, um, because we sort of have two different sources of food waste in schools.

We have the food waste at the cafeteria level, and then we have the food release that goes beyond the cafeteria and into the kitchen.

Um at that point, it was determined to try uh addressing the food waste in schools in a different way and try the and and potentially with less personnel and resources that we didn't already have.

Um, and we ran a very brief kind of couple month kitchen organic waste disposal program.

And um that ran in two different schools.

Um unfortunately the results of that, the experiences, I guess, of that pilot um didn't pan out as as great as the cafeteria once did.

Um, and we there was a lot of concerns about um kind of training for staff, um, the labor required to do this.

And there were questions about uh frequency of pickups and um also communication between um all of the different departments that were involved in trying to help the schools run this sort of program.

Um so we decided to table that, but we did agreed to continue discussing it over the years and we've kept those conversations open with the schools.

They've been a great partner in this.

Um we at the same time were had an opportunity and identified an opportunity and a need to expand the uh staff that are working on all of these really complex issues, like addressing food waste in schools, which encompass operations, health, um safety, and um sustainability issues too.

So we we've all worked together to sort of help to build systems on the city side to make sure that we're ready to plan for and can uh work with the schools um to come up with a plan that works best for for everybody.

Um at the same time, we've also released the city's first zero waste plan, which calls for a reduction in uh waste overall uh community-wide by 90% by 2050, which is in line with the state's uh similar plan with with uh the same goal.

Um importantly, the state has also set um sort of a timeline for regulations around food waste in uh commercial spaces that produce a certain amount of tonnage of food uh over a certain period.

And they're we believe that they're looking over in the next couple of years to start enforcing that.

So working on this together with the schools is a really good opportunity for us to kind of troubleshoot and figure out what works best for us um while we have this time to experiment and play before we need to have something in place.

We also have, of course, our community climate action plan and the one that was released, the first one that was released in 2018, really only mentioned composting as a footnote and sort of said, hey, you know, people really want this, but it doesn't really match with our bottom line of our geographic greenhouse gas inventory.

So we didn't include, you know, uh um an item around this.

Um, but it did include a consumption-based emissions inventory, which um does look at the kind of cradle degrave emissions of all of the things that we consume.

And when you look at emissions from that perspective, it is really impactful.

Um food waste is really impactful, it's really valuable.

We all would like to see, you know, and we're working towards getting these programs up and running.

And um, you know, at the same time in our our 2024 climate plan, you know, that's the reason why we included goals around food waste in it, even though you wouldn't necessarily see it in a traditional um, you know, kind of greenhouse gas inventory of that type.

Um, we thought that it was important that the plans that the city was putting forward are reflective of what's important to the community.

And composting generally is more than just emissions, of course.

I think everybody, it sounds like everybody on the committee is has sort of heard or or is aware of all of the different benefits of composting too um from uh nutrient standpoint, um uh and all of the the valuable nutrients that we can get from there and and put back into our our own food and our food systems.

Um so we're really uh and it's also an education tool too, and helps to build um a culture of environmentalism and conservationism and teaches all of these really great principles too.

So um we're we're uh suffice to say we're working with the schools now on um we have a couple different composting programs uh going for the city.

We just launched our first uh curbside composting pilot program last week, and we have a hundred and sixty uh sorry, a hundred and sixty-nine signups just within a week, which is what we were expecting over a two-month period.

So that's very exciting.

It's clearly signaling that this is something that the community really is interested in, which is we knew, but you know, now it's it's reflected, and um, we're still working with the schools on this uh piece of it.

And we're also looking for synergy between this particular effort with the schools and the participatory budgeting drop-off food waste sites that were voted on by residents um in I think it was June of this year, where we have about a little more than 100,000 to uh site and establish some food waste drop-off sites around the community too, uh kind of like our neighbors in Cambridge, Boston, Arlington all do now.

So we're in contact with those communities.

We're seeing if there's any synergies there, we're learning best practices.

Um, and uh we're going to keep this moving forward for the community.

So um I'll just end by saying I really appreciate all your support with this.

You know, this is something that our department is very passionate about, and we're working really hard to find a solution with the schools um and a solution that is you know safe, won't exasperate the rat problem, and um keeps us um in line with not only your community goals, but the state goals too.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Um before I turn over to colleagues, I just want to say um, you know, I I see the some of the little nuggets that are in the in the report in the um the memo here is like less than five percent of some total emissions.

Um I think at this point in time, like from my perspective as far as composting goes, it's it's mostly about rats.

Like I think that, you know, we've been told in the past, even with like the city's now doing a pilot for the composting because you know, they said that we were paying by tonnage, but then we were just doing like because this is about how much we pay for trash and whether or not you know how much it's gonna cost us to run a pilot program unless we get serious buy-in, um, that the numbers don't work.

And when we hear that a lot, um I'm just trying to figure out how if we're gonna be running a pilot, like how come we can't just have the food, you know, and the milk poured into the thing and the food taken off the trays and just brought to DPW or something, like there's got to be a way, and then the company that we're doing the pilot with gets it.

I'm just I understand the logistics and I understand we're asking food service people to do extra work.

Um I don't know.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here just because you know, it's frustrating because I do understand that the numbers don't necessarily work in terms of you know what is important to us um as a community.

So uh I've just been listening to this talk for uh you know about eight years now, and it's just yeah, we haven't really gotten very far.

So uh anybody on the council side have anything on this.

All right, I don't see any hands raised.

Um all right, I'll turn it over to the school committee side.

Oh, thanks okay.

Yeah, uh yeah, thank you the chair.

Um thank you, uh Chair Flington for um kind of giving the summary of this and how um we got here.

I put in the order, but all my colleagues uh are in support of this.

And um I am inclined to agree with uh what you said, Chair.

Um yeah, I think at this point we know there's like so much waste, and thank you, director, for uh digging up this uh report.

Uh but um Steve Larlier would like to see us really uh take action on this and just do it.

Um we've done pilots, we as you said like different, you know, programs.

Uh but we have learned what we needed to learn.

And we know also that rats it that's like a really really big issue in the schools.

Uh so I'm really hoping that in the next um like by next September, uh, we have like a plan on this.

Um because more pilots, I don't know how much you know they will help certainly, but um yeah, yeah, I think yeah.

No, I appreciate it.

And I just want to just to add on to my other comment, though.

I just want to be clear.

What I'm talking about is the fact that food waste is heavy.

We don't pay by the pound uh the tonnage right now with the trash room pickup.

And so a pilot program would potentially, I'm sorry, uh a composting program potentially cost us more than just having it in the trash.

And I and I do understand that though those numbers don't pan out, but then there is the rat factor.

Then there is the you know, there's other factors.

I don't know what the I don't see any actual numbers here on the breakdown in terms of like in the millions, how much it would cost us to compost, and maybe it's in there.

I I um anyway.

So I just want to kind of make sure everyone understands this is we've been told in the past it's about dollars and cents.

And that's um all right, Councilor Davis, and then we'll turn it over to the school committee.

Yeah, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I I guess I I should just uh you know add my voice in and and sort of echo what my colleagues have said.

Um I I appreciate this the memo.

Um so thank you to the director for that.

And thank you, um, you know, for everyone who's put some effort into this.

Um you know, I I I did kind of when I read this, I did kind of look a little sideways at you know, one of the conclusions with the the back of the house pilot being you know, rodent concerns.

Um I'm I'm not quite sure how that works.

If if you know food waste is going in the trash, what how it would you know surely it would be better if we if we have a specific place for it that could be specifically more runproof, but um I you know I don't I don't have all the details.

Uh but you know, just I just want to uh even before counselor Hirsch uh brought this up.

Um I had brought it up.

Um my daughter had prompted me for a project she did in school.

Um and so you know it really ought to be a way we can do this.

I understand there's a lot of challenges.

I appreciate all the work.

Um and so I'll just you know reiterate once again my request that we keep pressing on this to find uh a way to um to you know um capture the many benefits that the director noted.

Um and and with a clear understanding that um uh we are not trying to do it to save money on uh on uh carding.

So um thank you for uh for reminding me, Councillor Klingon of that interesting response that we heard uh from uh a past administration.

Um so uh yeah, here's for figuring it out.

Thank you.

Thank you, colleagues.

I will turn it over to Chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Clinton.

Um I'm gonna take uh just a quick moment to shout out uh Annie at the West Somerville neighborhood school who wrote um an article in her school newspaper to um highlight the importance of composting and the positive benefits she and I also think it will have uh for our school communities.

Um both in terms of uh you know helping our kids do the right thing uh and help solve uh the problems that they have in front of them, right?

So this is um a way to really make sure that um uh we're giving kids opportunities to um uh impact the world in a positive way.

Um I also just want to um uh uh note in the memo, it indicated uh looking at food donation possibilities.

And I don't know if that has been explored.

I'd be interested, Director Blaze, in hearing whether that has been looked into, but um, you know, in addition to the rodent mitigation, um, I wonder if this could help um some of our community partners in serving those with food food insecurity.

Um and I know our school department uh provides nutritious meals for our students every single day, and the opportunity to provide leftover meals that would get disposed of otherwise um that are still fit to serve could be um part of a uh a braided solution to addressing the food insecurity crisis that I have to imagine is only gonna get worse in the next couple years.

Um, Director Blaze, I don't know if you have a response to that before I turn it over to my colleagues.

Uh through the chair, thank you so much for the question.

It's a great point, and it's definitely something that we are interested in exploring.

We haven't explored at least our department specifically hasn't explored food donations there.

And I can't I think it's it's important to note that the city isn't the only party at the table.

We have to get the schools on board with this.

And we have to consider their capacity too.

So it's definitely something that we're interested in exploring.

Um, I and I can't speak if uh if other departments have looked into this already.

Um, I'm thinking back to you know, the COVID days um and and the the folks that were working on the food access uh incident command um team.

Uh that so I would have to do more research, but I'd be happy to look into it and get back to the uh committee.

Appreciate that.

All right, I'm gonna go uh in order that I see the hand.

So Dr.

Phillips.

Thanks, three chair.

Thank you so much for this memo and this presentation, and to my colleagues on city council who who have really pushed this issue so strongly.

I really appreciate it.

Um of the many, many things I have learned in my six years on this committee is how hard it is to move an organization as big as a school district, right?

And on this issue, we're feeding 5,000 kids at least once, if not twice each and every day.

That is a lot of meals and a lot of food.

And it seems to me, and um, Director Blaze, please correct me if I'm wrong.

We have some sense of what it would take to do this well.

And I guess my request through you, Chairs to Ms.

Barry is to request that the district work with its finance team to cost out what would it take to seriously pilot a compost, any you know, any of the many models we could do, you know, what would it take to pilot it?

What would it take to implement it district wide?

And then let's um get it to President Davis and our colleagues on the city council, because I think in order to do this, we have to add this to the district's budget.

There's no other way to move this ship, and so we'd really need your help.

And so I think a starting point is to know here's what we would need, and then to think about okay, what are the trade-outs, right?

I think like 40% of our eighth graders, plus or minus are proficient on our standardized tests.

That's just one measure, but like that's the trade-off for this money in our budget.

Um thanks.

Thank you, Dr.

Phillips.

Thank you for raising that.

Um I'm gonna go to uh Ms.

Barry first.

Barry, sorry.

Thank you.

Um through you, Chair.

Yes, um, back in July, we had a nice meeting with Director Blaze.

Um in that meeting was director of food services, Lauren Mancini, myself, and Amara Anasique.

And we are very much open to starting the pilot program as long as we are all in the same page with rodent control and as long as all of the measures are right for both sides.

I know funding is gonna be play a big factor.

Um, and from what I understand from food services is in the back of the house, they really don't have um, which was brought up in the July meeting, they don't have a ton of weight food waste.

Um because, for example, if they have like chicken dinner, for example, then they'll then turn it into chicken pot pie.

And they you know what I'm saying, like as to limit the amount of food that is being wasted.

They do have you know, scraps such as like cucumber pails and things to that nature that would go into the composting.

Um I guess the problem that happened in the past was around um the pickup of the composting barrels not being consistent.

So they were there longer than they should have been, which was a red flag for our food service department.

Um now, as far as the front of the house, I think that's where more of the funding issue would be because we would definitely need more staff to support the students around properly disposing the items.

Okay, thank you.

Um Ms.

Patone.

Thank you through you.

I don't want to belabor this topic.

I just very much appreciate city counselors, Director Blaze, um Miss Barry for being here to talk about the issue.

I think fundamentally it's it's clearly at least to launch this, it's an investment.

And it's an investment from the standpoint of students and culture and developing a culture of composting that you know does it's not maybe contributing to you know climate issues as much as we're concerned about it, but it does divert things from landfills.

And for students in particular, and I think we've touched on this, like they really feel this very viscerally.

If they compost at home, they're really unhappy.

Like my son, this is ages ago.

This is not composting, it was recycling, used to collect the styrofoam trays and try to figure out a way to dispose of it because he knew it was something that could have been done differently, and kids aren't necessarily um wetted with the whole sort of like big picture.

How do we do something at a big industrial scale versus them personally putting a can in a recycling bin?

So I hope that we can frame this as an investment.

I think over time, as students learn how to do it.

First of all, composting doesn't have to be perfect.

If a kid throws something in the trash by accident, it's not the end of the world.

Um, and I think it's gonna take time to get there, and it may not be a like reinvest, and then maybe the cost will go down a little bit.

But I just I agree with um Dr.

Phillips that figuring out how to plan for this and do it.

Um, I think it's one of those places where we can keep our kids from becoming cynical, because I think this is a place where kids become cynics and they go, well, if we if we don't compost here, if we don't recycle, I'm just using it as an example here, then why bother?

And like we're catching them at this very um sort of tender part of their lives.

So there's a value system that's not about dollars, but it's about culture and whatever we can do um for the school pity side to further this, and you know, again, thank you for this memo.

So detailed and so specific.

Um, someone has to decide this is an investment that we want to make in our community.

And I hope that that happens and I will continue to be part of the advocacy.

So thank you.

Uh Director Blaze, do you have any response before I turn it over to Dr.

uh Mr.

Clinian?

Uh through to the chair.

Thank you all.

These were such wonderful um responses.

And I it's great to hear that there's just so much support for this.

And I loved that last comment about, you know, the kids really want to do something because that's really why I've been, you know, pushing for this is that it's it's about creating that culture of conservationism, creating environmentalists today, because you know, no matter how you look at this, you know, there's all of these environmental benefits, not just it's not always just about emissions, right?

And it's it's really important that we get it ahead of that now so that we can achieve our vision 30 years from now.

So I am totally um, yeah, that I think that really struck me.

And and Annie is a great example of this too, right?

Um, we've met with Annie uh several times, she's great, and um again, it's great to see her.

Um couple notes here is that you know, I think on the cost point, I think there were two comments made about costs, and I or three or so, and I just wanted to kind of clarify we are looking at synergies between a couple composting programs, one being the participatory budgeting drop-off program.

Cambridge, Boston, and Arlington, I think Arlington too, co-locate their drop-off locations with schools.

So if we're looking for something that is a little bit similar, and we're kind of looking for somebody from the kitchen to go outside, you know, a couple of times a week and throw away food waste into like a rat-proof bin or maybe rat resistant bin.

Um, and that is picked up, hopefully on a daily basis, then you know, maybe we can figure something out.

And and we have now we have the best practice now through market research, we've had the best practices kind of laid out for us on citing those things.

And that's a conversation that you know, once we get a little bit more information um from our surrounding communities and we and and um potential, you know, like vendors for market research, we can approach the schools with some some ideas there um and include them on um uh kind of the the research arm of that too.

We've also conducted some um uh uh site visits at the schools too to uh better understand what um the rodent issues are and what recommendations um uh could be made to help them there too.

Um there's uh this other idea the the other point too, I I think Danielle did a really great job explaining kind of the difference between the front of the house composting, which is I think what the original item was about, um a report about front uh cafeteria composting versus back of the house is true.

There's a lot more um food waste at the front of the house versus the back of the house.

So um it might take two different solutions, and I think that's why and I can't speak for the administration at that time because I wasn't in Office of Sustainability at that time, but I believe that that's why the decision was made to try both pilots so that we could kind of get a sense of what we could do with limited resources and what sort of impact it would have.

We are seeing communities um decrease their total that they spend on trash pickup generally and tonnage as a result of incorporating composting programs.

Um there's also communities that you know in terms of like curbside composting generally.

Um, there's also communities that have turned to alternative methods and said, you know, in terms of the curbside piece and said, hey, you know, here's a discount for, you know, that the town can offer for our residents, right?

So there's um there's different ways that we can go about this.

Um I think the pilot program is just it's is sort of our our kind of proving ground, and then we can take what we learn and implement accordingly.

Um and yeah, I think and and I think in terms of contamination too, yes, some contamination is okay.

I think that that's where a lot of the resources come in for the front of the house program and could to get the aids to make sure students are composting or um putting their um waste in the correct bins and to make sure that custodians are signing them properly too.

Um, so there's a big effort here.

We have a great partnership with our Department of Public Works team on this too.

Um we split the environmental program manager who was here for 20 years when he uh left the city for another opportunity.

Um we split, we were he was doing so much.

We split his position into like five positions across three different departments, and one of those is a sanitation program, hazardous waste and sanitation program manager that's based in DPW, who um at that position, I think they're working to fill it now, but they would be really helpful in helping us figure out um what the best way to go about this is, and if we get something in place, then they can help us manage it too going forward.

Um yeah, so I think you know, we're we're investigating all of our options too, and um uh we'll we can certainly, you know, keep it keep in touch with the committee and uh, you know, as the schools and um the city continue our journey and figuring out we all want to do this, what's the best way to do it for Somerville?

That doesn't exasperate existing issues that we already have.

Thank you, Director Blaze.

Um I think what I'm gonna do is continue to check in with um Ms.

Barry and Ms.

Anosique um to find out when might be a good time to come back to this conversation.

Um so that's very helpful.

Uh back to you, Chair Klingon.

Thanks.

Maybe uh counselor, something else on this.

Yeah, uh, thank you through the chair.

Um I just had my my hand raised before uh director Blaise spoke, and I just like want to say thank you for uh trying to investigate all the options.

Um and it was Ms.

Group West that let's not do that this conversation ends here.

I really hope this is the beginning of the conversation of trying to figure out how to work with the schools, what we can do at the city level, and I think it would be great to get uh actual numbers so that the council is prepared before budget season.

Um we we're working with a certain number.

Um so that's like one request in terms of cost, and then the other one is the request to just keep that conversation going with uh school staff.

It's really great to hear from uh Miss Barry just now.

Uh some of the challenges.

Um I just want to say to like the point you made about yes, it's important to have additional staff to walk kids, students through like you know, whole you know, composting culture.

Uh having worked in the schools, they will say, yes, absolutely.

We always need an adult, you know, transitions take time.

Uh learning new routines, you know, take time, but this is exactly what we do in the schools, right?

Um establishing new routines, implementing new systems.

That's what staff, school staff do all the time in schools.

So as a former educator would say, I don't think we will have like many issues there.

Uh what we would need again is funding to uh for those positions, but I really trust that our students are ready for this.

Uh we've we our educators teach about this.

Um director Blaze, you know this you know better than anyone is you have uh worked a lot with staff and you see all the amazing things they're doing in terms of climate.

So we really hope we can lead the way.

Um and I trust that our students will will be thrilled to join once the we have a plan in place.

Okay.

Um so the order is that they release the report.

Um where is the report currently?

Uh through the chairs.

So we did find the report, it's in a draft version and it was created in a previous administration.

So we we can't like vouch for the information that is in it necessarily.

So I took um some of the uh or I took all of the recommendations from the report and I included in an appendix A.

Um but we do have, but uh, so those are I think pages three and four here of the memo.

I guess okay.

All right, is that so um satisfy you, Councilor Said, as the irritator of the order as far as the report unquote report goes, uh those bullet pointed um recommendations.

That's satisfying.

Um yes, counselor.

I think for now I am satisfied with this.

Uh Director Blaze has reached out to me uh before putting this together so we understand um what you've just explained about this being, you know, probably like from seven eight years ago.

Um I think this is again just like to give us an idea of what was done uh since in this committee.

This came up and uh our colleagues from the school committee um requested to have this information uh that they asked for years ago.

And um yeah, I will put in a different order about the cost as they would like it to have to have a conversation around that.

Um so I am comfortable put uh marking this work as completed.

Okay, chair.

All right, so we'll work complete this.

I do always want to say this isn't about recycling, but I do remember uh counselor Hirsch saying that the kids would she would see kids crying that they feel like to school committee person Petone's point.

Um that they felt like they were breaking the law um by not doing what you know we've been told as a society is important to do.

Um clerk, we will work complete item number four and go back to the regular order business, which is um item number two, but the administration provide the special committee on school building facility maintenance with the regular with regular updates about the MSBA process for the Wendell Brown schools.

I know Council Saeed is recusing herself because of her location for residence to the one of the proposed um possible locations for a school.

So with that said, I will um I know that Director Rish is here.

And again, as I set it up before, there was new information that came out last night.

I I guess I didn't read, I didn't watch the uh the meeting yet.

It was it just posted, I think today.

Um so take it away, Director Hirsch.

I mean uh thank you, Chair Klingon.

Director Hirsch.

Um, yeah, two two updates.

One um we are um completing uh negotiations on the contract with Perkins Easman, who will be our architect designer.

Um we've uh negotiated the scope and fee.

Um both parties are happy with that.

We have some allowances um in there uh that I think will cover us.

Uh and we're starting to schedule uh meetings, starting with some um uh focusing on the educational program.

Um so a lot of the the educational folks at SPS um will be meeting with uh Perkins Eastman, get that um going.

So very excited to be entering that next phase.

Uh in terms of the uh construction advisory group, the CAG, we did have a meeting last night.

Um the primary topic of that was a readout of the survey in the focus groups.

I think uh most everybody here um from all the outreach and billboards around the city uh know that we had an online survey um around questions around the the location, the size, the programming preferences uh for the new school.

Uh we had an outstanding response, something like 2500 respondents, which is like a new record for um that type of polls.

Um so the the consultant that we had hired um to work with the CAG on developing um that uh survey uh reported out on the data.

Um I think the one conclusive thing that we can say um is that the preponderance of the community um is opposed to um citing a new facility at Trump for various number of reasons.

Um but uh most everyone has uh objections to it.

So perhaps counselor won't have to recuse herself from this item for very much longer.

Um all other um sort of uh topics uh of the um survey were more inconclusive.

Um not surprisingly, I guess.

You know, the the community as a whole is somewhat divided um on the issue of to combine or not combine.

Uh if if you look at different demographics, um certainly uh you know, wards four, five, and six are in favor of separate uh facilities.

Wards uh one, two, three, and seven are generally in favor of a combined facility, um, seeing the the benefit uh sort of the cost benefit of a combined uh facility.

Um the different age demographics is you know, the the ages that are sort of uh brown, you have children that are brown school aged tend to favor a um separate brown school.

The um the ages that are are either younger as in you know, going to be going into school or older as an already in high school tended to favor a combined school.

Um, so you know the the report is released.

I think we'll be um posting it on the website soon for everyone to be able to take a look at the graphs and and the the data.

Um, but you know, that's that's generally the upshot in in broad brush, nobody likes the idea of Trum.

The rest of the community is divided almost down the middle on whether to combine or not combine.

Um, and and clearly the the preference there would be for combined sycamore, not a Trum.

Um we also had a presentation on the focus groups, um, which were intended to be a deeper dive with a smaller group of with smaller groups of people so that you know not only would we have that sort of top level data um but also dive more into um reasoning behind uh their their sort of preferences.

Um and there were focus groups with with educators with the teachers, with parents of both you know Winterhill Brown and non Winterhill Brown families, um, special education uh parents, uh non parents, you know.

have that sort of top level data um but also dive more into um reasoning behind uh their their sort of preferences um and there were focus groups with with educators with the teachers with parents of both you know winterhill brown and non-Winterhill Brown families um special education uh parents uh non-parents you know so that we had a bunch of different focus groups and and there again um you know the the uh there were differences among those different demographics um you know certainly that the the existing brown and and winter hill folks seem to favor separate schools the educators interestingly enough favored a combined school um and and you know that that there was just sort of a a range there too um so there's no clear consensus among the community um and it's fairly evenly divided uh which I think is why this is such a a difficult um you know uh topic uh and and I I do think that um it I think the CAG really needs to the members of the CAG need to be commended because they've been looking at all of this data um and and now we've got the additional sort of outreach data uh for them to to look at and um you know I the the intent is that their next meeting is on the 10th um between now and then um they're going to start filling in some you know like uh online you know it's uh forms uh and the idea is that on the 10th they'll they'll do some deliberation uh around the um their recommendation uh and then we've got one more meeting scheduled after that I think on the 24th which would be two weeks after that to sort of finalize it and the the form of it um you know in broad brush what we're kind of talking about is is similar to like a a Supreme Court decision where there's a decision and the justifications for it and the the additional um information that the CAG has gleaned um to to offer uh to to the mayor um and to memorialize all it is that they've um you know sort of uncovered during this uh exploration uh there's also an expectation that there likely will be as in uh a supreme court decision um a a dissenting opinion uh because i don't think we're gonna get to unanimity on on the cag um not everyone will agree um but there there will be sort of a a majority and a minority um opinion that that sort of states their their um reasoning behind that um so uh all in all I think I think that the direction that that group is is taking is a very good one and and again I on behalf of every everyone on the city side team want to thank them for all of the the work that they've put into to this effort uh the director well I have a couple of just rapid fire questions uh the first one is um okay so the CAG decided that they don't want to build on Trump we've been told ultimately this is the mayor's decision I'm not sure what information that they've looked at in terms of the dollars and sense of it or and just in you know and what information they've put into this calculation um and then the further the quite the second sort of part to that question is you know how where does this put us in terms of timeline with regards to a final decision being made where we have an outgoing mayor um is she prepared to you know pull the trigger on something or is this going to have to be pushed until the new year and does that affect the timeline.

Yeah thanks for that um question chair um you know to be clear um you know what what we're seeking here really is is more directional um than anything else because um we we still do for the msb a feasibility study um explore trum options um and and essentially uh provide to the msbA reasons why trum um doesn't work for the community but you know we still have to have at least two sites to weigh but all of this information you know both from the uh from the survey and from the CAGS deliberation and um another important thing to to um remember is that Trump field is protected under Massachusetts Article 97 uh which means that if we build on it uh we absolutely must offset that that um loss of open space at another location um and for the purposes of evaluation um on like what that would cost uh we did estimate what it would cost us to build a softball field at Sycamore Street and when you account for that that sort of land offset and construction cost it actually makes that a more expensive option um so that there there's there's a number of of sort of things lining up um that to to to document to MSBA why it is that that Trum would not be a preferred option compared to Sycamore Street.

Um, so that there's there's a number of of sort of things lining up that to document to MSBA why it is that Trum would not be a preferred option compared to Sycamore Street.

Um, so so I think that you know, all of that is is coming into focus fairly well.

And the reason why we want to do this is again, you know, what we're on a certain timeline with the MSBA.

Um, you know, we we just we just uh through their process hired the the architect, the architect is now gonna start the feasibility study, but we wanted to do as much legwork ahead of that formal start of the feasibility study as possible.

And I see all of this effort as feeding into this, so that as Perkins Eastman starts the feasibility study on day one, we've already done the community outreach.

We've already done due diligence on the sites, we've already um worked up some cost estimates.

So, you know, we're we're essentially giving that feasibility study a several month head start.

Um you know, and and all of that is to say that you know the city won't be formalizing that report and sending it to MSBA for approval until we're into um 2026.

Um which means that it it very much is you know, the next mayor has a lot of influence on that because you know, really it's it's gonna be the next mayor in his capacity of being on the school building committee and hit in his capacity, um uh as as you know, signing the documentation on the funding agreement.

Um, you know, it it does sit there.

But for us to cash in on that head start um on the feasibility study and getting Perkins Eastman uh hitting the ground running, you know, we we do want to have that, you know, to have all of this work of the CAG wrapped up in December.

And and Mayor Ballantyne is very much taking this um, you know, because she's been been with this, you know, since since the Brown since the Winter Hill closed, she's very much invested in and seeing this CAG process through to the end.

Um and and does want to uh get that recommendation and make the decision.

But there is the acknowledgement that the next mayor um is gonna be the one signing the documents.

Uh and and so we we don't exactly know what the contours of it is.

Um, but but the the the thought is that um mayor Ballantyne will will consult with the mayor elect in November and December um before releasing the decision and and uh essentially giving um the the team the their marching orders.

Yeah, I mean I actually think my my question was a little off-based anyway, because it but it's just trying to square a lot of the the past talk and past thought process about you know we we should have a decision in uh you know October or the fall, but then when again this comes just from so much confusion and it being such a storm that it was never really going to be the CAG that the Keg would be wouldn't would inform the mayor, the mayor would be part of the MSBA building group, and then that's where her vote would be part of it.

But then of course we want obviously want the mayor to be in so it hasn't really affected timeline at all as far as from your point.

I I don't have the graphic in front of me that show you, you know, not like it matters at this point anyway, but uh I just think and kind of looking back in the look look back machine.

But um, so either way we'll have a new mayor that will be on the MSBA thing, and they'll so they can still take that recommendation for what for what they want to take it for.

All right, yeah, I don't really, you know, the only other thing I was gonna ask, and I this is kind of meeting's going on a little longer.

You know, we we spent spent a lot of time on the composting.

Um was just about the the when the folks were at the CAG were presented with the the um, you know, I don't know what cost analysis they're using or if they're just voting out of their hearts, because I know there's a lot of people who feel very passionately about the Brown School, but what were they using to come to their decision as to whether or not they think we should be combined?

Like and what what are the alternative options, like you know, we've talked about if you have to make the window school bigger, maybe like again, this ain't happening because we're building a new school yet at this Kennedy, but maybe building on to the Kennedy at one point was so you know, there was these sort of potential ideas to help with capacity.

Um has any of that been part of the discussion?

I'm sorry, Speaker.

Yeah, um for for what the what we presented to the CAG in terms of options, we sort of took the Kennedy um option off the table because that um for for a number of reasons.

It would really wasn't pertinent to to the CAGS exploration, but we did update uh the cost estimates from that K capacity study to reflect the enrollment numbers that were agreed to with the MSBA uh through the eligibility phase, um, and also just to update the the cost estimates to you know 2025 dollars.

Uh so we we ran a number of scenarios for different size schools, different location schools, um, and uh came up with with construction cash flows for a number of different scenarios on different timelines.

Uh work with Ed Bean and Mike Masterboney um on then what the the uh debt service would be.

Um and you know, we because we don't have valuation um projected out, we couldn't actually estimate what the resulting tax bills would be um on the debt exclusion for those different scenarios, but we know what the the total debt was for the high school and then what the um impacts were on homeowners.

So you know, we kind of were able to draw um an analogy there.

So um the the CAG had a number of different um scenarios.

Uh in uh I I should be able to share that um widely once I um uh update it um and and can get that out.

It's like you said, I'm sure this is all going to come out in the feasibility study, they're gonna take all this.

I'm just kind of I was just trying to get a peek into the folks' heads.

Um I didn't know if in that conversation anybody said the words like, and I don't know if this is this isn't I'm not going on record of saying this, but I've heard of like you know, in 20 at this point in time where we are the the building envelope for where the brown is, there wouldn't be a possibility of rebuilding a school there, like at least not with any MSBA help.

Is that a is that a factual statement?

Through the chair, yeah.

I mean it it is it's somewhat speculative.

Um, and you know, I I don't think MSBA staff wants to speak for the MSBA board any more than I do.

Um, but uh essentially reading the T leaves, um it is exceptionally unlikely um that if we don't combine the schools and and then uh try to address start addressing the Brown under a separate separate application starting in like you know 2032, um it would be very unlikely that the MSBA um would be granting the city of Somerville money for that project, um at least for the foreseeable future.

Okay, that's all I have.

Any colleagues anything on this comments, questions?

Counselor Davis, counselor Saeed.

Yeah, actually, um Mr.

Chair, thank you.

Um if I could just just clarification that you you you asked a question about MSBA um funding or financing for a project involving the in some way involving the existing ground school, and I think I heard director raish answer question about the timing of of uh any potential project.

And so uh, you know, at this point, honestly, I I think nobody actually really knows um you know what members of the uh of the MSBA might do in you know down the road.

And as Director Ray said, it's highly speculative anyways, but I just wanted to clarify that um you know the the what we do know is that what we do know is that was some some confidence is that it would be a bit uh if at all um down the road for any MSPA project that involved a renovation of the Brown School.

Um we don't really know as I understand it, you know, we have no reason to think that that that such project would or wouldn't be viable purely because of that building itself.

Is that fair to say, Director Rish?

Uh yeah, I mean again it's it's highly speculative at this point.

Um, but the the indications are that um the the Brown school would be very much low on the MSBA's list.

Um, so it would be a long matter of time um before it would become eligible.

Okay, yeah, no, and I was just asking that because I mean it's probably rumor mill stuff.

I had heard that like you know, based on the size of the lot that you know, um it you know, based on the size of the lot or whatever anyway.

Um yeah, so so there's absolutely the possibility in the future.

So, but in the meantime, we'd be thinking about if the ground goes down, we gotta we gotta have a plan for another school uh in the in the short term.

Um let's hope that doesn't happen.

We'll see how this all goes.

Um, but okay.

Um Chair Baton floors your chair cling in.

Chair Klingon, I will turn it to Ms.

Patone.

Thank you through you.

Thank you, Director Raish for giving us this preview of the information.

I have a couple quick questions.

One, do we know when something's gonna be published about the survey and focus group results?

Uh through the chair, I think it's just a matter of um getting them posted um and and all that.

Like I possibly as early as this week.

Um I'd uh maybe next week.

Okay.

But I don't think it would be much longer than that.

Yeah.

Um yeah, because it sounds like you know, I didn't know what to expect.

I mean, I had some expectations that it was different than what I expected.

Um so uh I think that it's important that it gets out to the community, obviously, beyond what we're talking about here.

Um just to clarify, I don't think the CAG is necessarily made a recommendation not to use Trum.

You were saying there was a very clear message from the survey that the people who participated in the survey said they were not interested in Trump.

And I also know that the city administration, which I guess is you is skeptical about the opportunity to do that based on the concerns about cost of replacing the contiguous um outdoor space, but the CAG hasn't made a particular recommendation on that.

Um the last thing um is about it seems like this decision making is kind of a moving target that I'm struggling with because the last conversation I asked very explicitly to the district to ask the city who this is how this decision would be made, and it was the clear message uh was that the current mayor was making decision before the end of the year.

I totally understand why the current mayor would collaborate with the incoming mayor.

I also totally understand that the CAG is technically the advising body, but we all know that if a mayor is not on board, incoming mayor is not on board, you're really it's really hard to be successful.

And MSBA would not be supportive of a plan where they were gonna invest a lot of money and if the current mayor wasn't um board.

So it sounds like it's just a lot a little more complicated.

And uh if the CAG makes a particular recommendation, I appreciate that they're going to try to be as nuanced as possible, it sounds like they they already know that there's kind of camps and positions, and it sounds like they've made some progress to kind of bring people together, but having the idea of having a decision and a descent is really, I think valuable for the community.

And it just reflects how emotional and complex this decision is.

One, because again, as I say, I want to move through the um feasibility study as quickly as possible and and give the Perkins Eastman team some clear direction um on all of the the factors that are gonna go into this decision.

And and so that we're uh we're not wasting a lot of time and effort on something that isn't supported by the community or the mayor or mayors.

Um, you know, it that's important in delivering this project as quickly as possible.

Um I also want to acknowledge that you know the the Winter Hills school community in particular, um really is owed, you know, that direct confirmation of of what direction we're going in.

um on all of the the factors that are gonna go into this decision and and so that we're uh we're not wasting a lot of time and effort on something that isn't supported by the community or the mayor or mayors um you know it that's important in delivering this project as quickly as possible um i also wanna acknowledge that you know the the the winter hills school community in particular um really is owed you know that direct confirmation of of what direction we're going in um you know with the acknowledgement that they're still gonna be at the edge of the lead for a number of years while we design the build the new school um I I I at least want that community to to know where the home is gonna be um and likely the size of the building you know the the the the general size of the building that we're looking for um I I just think that will give that community a lot of solace in in that understanding um so I I didn't I don't think there's any reason for delay um you know maybe I'm being overly optimistic on how easy it is gonna get um consensus uh you know how the recommendation of the CAG and honestly don't forget there's also gonna be a staff recommendation we've said this all along that there's and and you're in all transparency it's largely myself and Ed Bean that makes the the staff recommendation um but um I'm cautiously optimistic that that both the outgoing and mayor elect um will be able to synthesize all that data in november and December and and come to you know sort of the same conclusion on it.

Thank you Mr.

Rach.

Dr.

Phillips thanks to you chair I just wanted to appreciate Director Rage for that last comment.

I think the families at Winter Hill will feel heard and seen so thank you.

Hey not seeing any further discussion here go back to you Chair Klingon.

Thank you and just one last comment on this just so it's abundantly clear is that whoever the mayor is is going to be on the MSBA group and they will have a voice but um you know and obviously we want the mayor to be on board but those discussions will happen in the MS so yeah hopefully we can all have a unanimous decision coming out of the MSBA group that we send up uh to the MSBA so um and I have faith in who whoever the mayor is they will respect the wishes of not only you know taking all that information into account and uh and and deliberating and coming up with with the best direction forward um they will support I don't think we'll have a contentious thing but yeah I guess we'll see.

All right um so that one stays in committee as usual um madam clerk let's jump over to um we'll just get through some of these quickly number three that the director of infrastructure and asset management update the council on when the school building's maintenance project website will be available to the public.

That's from council site.

Yeah uh through the chair I have to express my apologies to counselor Saeed um we have just been so flat out with all of our priority projects most of them school related the Argenziano kitchen the Argenziano classroom this MSBA thing um and and trying to um it's we just have not had the the person power uh to to turn our attention to this um hopefully as the as the uh summer construction season winds down uh in over December January we can work with comms and and make some some progress on this um the other update I can give which has uh something of of connected tissue on this you you've probably heard me talk about the asset management system and the CMMS um I think we finally finished there's one last term remaining on that contract I think we'll resolve that tomorrow um so that that contract should get signed this week uh and that group is chomping at the bit to to launch the CMMS and and I I think as a as I've described one of the things that that's gonna do is is give much better reporting particularly on like 311 requests um but also routine maintenance and we're gonna be able to put um you know the the the the additional work that we do on the schools and there'll be a reporting mechanism out of that.

So we're we're one step closer um to to making that a reality for us.

Okay.

I appreciate that you were all very busy and um I look forward to uh when we are able to get to this I I don't know I if we're all imagining the same situation.

I mean I I'll turn it over to Council Saeed to expand on you know what her order is about but we've talked about this before similar to Chelsea where they sort of have their you know capital project ideas and whether like whether or not you know we're gonna be updating the chiller in 2026.

You know I always I always hear these words I never knew it before chiller or you know um the uh the these couple of different terms with regards to the big systems in the buildings.

So um I'm happy I'll I'll be happy when that goes up so people can really kind of go to the school department website or wherever this is gonna live and and look at the school buildings and see you know what's what's in the pipeline, what's happening, or what um you know what's in the future.

Um council site, you're the originator of this item.

Take it.

Uh through the chair.

Um yeah, I uh thank you, uh Director Rach for the update.

And uh I understand the September and October really busy, busy months uh in the schools.

Unfortunately, we missed an opportunity again to have all those updates on a website.

So um constituents, school parents uh really see like all the work we're doing in the buildings.

Um to your point, um, to a question, uh chair about what um what's my request here.

This I uh director Rage explained uh briefly the um what his staff are working on or hoping to um have like live on a website.

Um yeah, so I just want to clarify that I'm not here telling you how to do your job.

I just want the information to live in one place and for updates to um be added uh consistent uh regularly to uh a website.

Um so yeah, happy to keep this one in committee so we can uh take it up next month, uh, or whenever we meet next.

Yeah, um, absolutely.

What I was just saying, counselor, is that there's been talk about something similar.

I want to, and I don't know if you're talking about the exact same thing.

So, like, you know, I hate to for them to do some work, put some information out, and then it's not you know exactly what you were looking for, or or you know, I mean, so I think we can we can work together to make sure that um, you know, whether it's smaller things or whether it's like, for instance, the stuff like over the summer, like it's posted that like we we have these great things at the uh DPW and that the um IM team was able to accomplish through the summer months.

Um, you know, everything from the small to the to the long term.

I'm down.

Yeah.

So uh I don't know where that could get discussed offline between you know, counselors and school staff or or here.

Um we tend to have an agenda that runs long, especially with the two bodies.

Um but yeah, so we're gonna keep this in committee anyway.

Uh so we'll bring it.

You want to keep this in committee?

Yes, uh I would like that chair.

And they can reach out to director Rage offline about this.

Um last time we discussed it, we discussed this in committee was very sounded like this is uh the very initial phase.

Um, so um director rage staff imagine is open to suggestions and uh to what like parents, school parents are looking for here.

And um, yeah, and we are we're about to build a new school and having a place where people can get updates is important.

Yeah, yeah.

I think so just real quick, Director Ration, I'm not trying to put anybody work any work on anybody or shift things, but this is where it gets a little interesting, where we have like because I understand the mayor's comms team, you know, I don't know how busy they are on a daily basis, but would this be um like something where we could talk to the school side comms team?

Would this even be something that would be on the K-12 side of things or the city?

This is because it's you know, I know it's DP, it's school, it's it's the city side, the buildings, but I don't know.

Do you have any uh idea where you where this would live in your mind?

Yeah, we we've always envisioned it as being on the coming out of the city comms, um, and and being either on IAM or DPW um pages.

Uh and uh yeah, that's just sort of the the way we envisioned it.

Okay.

All right.

So then we'll have to talk about this some more.

Uh I'm gonna turn it over to the school side for any questions or comments.

Uh Chair Paton.

Uh thanks.

I wonder if Councillor Said had another thing to add.

No.

Okay, just no, it's her hand was just still up.

That's fine.

Residual hand.

Um, I didn't have any question.

Do I see anything from my colleagues?

No.

No, I think we're good.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, I don't know if any of you have ever checked out that.

And by the way, it's funny to point it out since it's not really updated, but Chelsea did have a good thing going for a while where they have, you know, um, the different schools and what's happening, you know, construction that's happening for schools.

All right.

So let's um we'll keep that one in committee, uh Madam Clerk.

And we will move on.

So we'll quickly we'll do item number five that the commissioner public works provide information regarding the installation safety and accessibility of a railing of the concrete stairs between the play structures, soccer field winterhill innovation school playground.

I've been working with the administration for a while on this council strezzo put an order in last meeting.

There is a memo attached this railing will be installed.

There was a lot of back and forth for a bit about you know because it was a massive community pro like a big community process around this and the design was a design and so that but then some conditions changed.

It's not acting as a schoolyard like there was a differentiation where when it was a schoolyard so anyway the the the parks department in the city has has um agreed to put a railing in um as it's been pointed out by some constituents that it's the only fully like only accessible slide in the city.

Okay we have uh liaison radasior hand up thank you Mr.

Chair just quick correction um not parks department public uh public space and urban forestry piece off under director uh perfect thank you all right so this is done uh work complete number five madam clerk that's happening item number six we might need director reach for this um that the administration informed this council of the process action and communication used to consider acquiring the acquiring the closed school building privately owned by the Archdiocese of Boston on Thurston Street after the window community school innovation school is deemed unsuitable for use so this kind of speaks to you know and I've been talking about this for a while because I do feel like you know we have an opportunity to sort of build a a larger sort of campus style um the the the St.

Anne's school building is no longer in use it sits vacant um it's sort of directly adjacent to the Winterhill school so it just the way it would be in terms of the layout it would be um a really great opportunity to be able to increase capacity on the site without going too high and then having to rely on elevators so that's why I've been continually talking about this site and I don't want to lose the opportunity um to to be able to acquire this site uh if you know it if it ends up getting sold or into some 20 year lease with a trial school or something like that.

So um can you just give us an update and where you know if you last time you talked to the archdiocese and whether or not they're open to a sale um should we take it by eminent domain obviously um uh nobody's doing that now um yeah so director rich turning it over to you so uh so good to the chair um I last talked with the archdiocese uh a little over a month ago um about this property we're not you know in a position uh where we're ready to to jump in and make an offer um because we still have a number of steps to to go through on the MSBA process um you know the the late breaking news of like an hour ago that uh Trump field is proving to be pretty unpopular is late breaking news um yeah uh and you know so they uh we're we're not in a position to to um be making a a solid offer um but uh the archdiocese is still um open uh and discussing with with a few different uh entities um you know what what could happen there so the the conversation remains open um and and i think it's in terms of the uh potential negotiation that's probably about as as far as we want to talk about it uh in a non-executive session sort of setting oh i got you um all right well thank you for that i'm i'm tempted to leave in a committee but i'll probably work completed not yet i want to hear from the school side and stuff but um but i but i i really you know it makes me anxious to think that you know the window could close on that but again it's all timing and you're right the timing's not right we don't even know what we're doing um but it's good to you know keep i i just want to like we want to keep bringing this up to you all to to let you know that because i don't know what the challenges are like if the higher you you know if you have five floors on a school uh you know is that too much for the little like you know i mean maybe older kids like that's where the you know the the the professionals come in but it's always i've always heard that we didn't want to build too high up on that site um because of the incline but that could be that could be also that challenge could also be met in some other way as well so uh we just want to kind of keep keep the eyes on the possibility uh be a great way to expand the footprint of the school um okay uh anything from the school uh the city council side nothing anything from the school committee side well i'll just take this opportunity chair clan to um uh echo your interest in uh exploring this opportunity and i have great faith in

So uh we just want to kind of keep keep the eyes on the possibility, uh be a great way to expand the footprint of the school.

Um okay, uh anything from the school uh the city council side.

Nothing.

Anything from the school committee side.

Well, I'll just take this opportunity, Chair Klingon, to um uh echo your interest in uh exploring this opportunity.

And I have great faith in Mr.

Raish and his team that they are doing everything that they need to do.

And uh without having any interest in jeopardizing potential negotiations, I will leave it to them to uh you know find the best path forward if such a path exists.

So just full support.

Um uh in that exploration at least.

And uh not seeing anything from my colleagues.

Nope.

I will turn it back to you, Chair Clingen.

Thank you.

I am gonna work complete this.

Like, you know, like I've been talking behind the scenes about uh Council Stressel did put this in, and like I said, I'm just backing our play as a way to have have you know make sure that we're keeping an eye on this, but let's work complete this and uh Chair Clang and I I apologize.

I see a late breaking hand from Ms.

I will not back to you.

Thank you through you, um chair.

You know, in a in an ideal world, it would be great to have more property at Sycamore Street.

That's a given.

But I also want to acknowledge and recognize that if that is going to be part of the calculus, it's gonna cost money.

Whether it's to buy the property, whether it's to dismantle and take down what's already there, it's not um a zero cost consideration.

Again, in my fantasy, I'd love that we'd have that property and be able to work with that.

And I know that um the city folk would too, but it's gonna be have to be something that's factored in I totally trust the city to put that in their analysis.

But it would be tremendous to have that extra space and add more outdoor space and have a little more breathing room for a building that's considered a Sigma Street.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And you know, one of the good news is that um the consultant, I think that we ended up going with, or at least some of the I know one of the consultants or two, maybe they're aware of this site and they're aware of you know the these conversations, and they do have they did have it in their presentation when we were picking firms.

Um, so it's very much you know, gonna probably be part of the calculation and conversation.

So um, oh absolutely.

It's yeah, it's it it will increase the cost, but it's just from everything where I was hearing about capacity and you know, challenges of building.

Um, so yeah, hopefully we can uh make something something work.

All right.

Um Madam Clerk, we will work complete item number six.

Moving on to item item number seven by uh the director of health and human services inform this council which buildings have menstrual products available and which buildings have inoperable menstrual product dispensers, and when are they scheduled to be replaced?

Uh there is a memo on file um from the DPW commissioner who's in charge of buildings.

Um and it's it basically it has a list of the schools.

Um they state in the memo that as far as they know, there are no inoperable dispensers.

Um the only school that do not have dispensers are the Capoana, which is an early childhood center, and the Brown, which goes up to fifth grade.

SPS administration and DPW are not aware of any inoperable menstrual product dispensers in school buildings.

If individuals are aware of an issue with the dispenser, notify SPS administration, and the city will work to get the uh get it resolved.

Then they have a list of the schools.

So um, and they also note that you know menstrual products are available at all the nurses' offices.

Um in uh in all the schools, but there are dispensers in all of the schools except two.

And um, yeah, so I think that's pretty answers that pretty definitively.

Um can check back with Council Strezzo as far as what she's hearing about inoperable uh dispensers, and that's uh with that.

I will turn it over to colleagues.

Council Say, the floor is yours.

Uh, through the chairs since we have staff uh from uh the schools here, I just want to ask in the event dispensers broken, or uh what what is the process for um making sure it's fixed and um yeah, that's my question.

I think this will go to uh director Barry.

I thought it was Barry, is it Barry or is it just spelt wrong on it's spelt wrong?

It's okay, it's Barry, B A R R R Y.

That's okay.

I'm like, I've always thought your name was Barry.

Um and I do know that there is, yeah, there is like a uh you're trying to a different reporting system uh instead of having staff put in 311.

So I'll let you speak to that.

Oh so through you, Chair, thank you.

Um first off Severville Public Schools is very appreciative to DPW, um Commissioner Latin, Liz Cortiello, and Karen Carroll in Health and Human Services for getting this program into all of our K through eight schools.

Umstreso.

Yeah, so actually her and I had a great conversation about this last night after the CAG meeting.

Um as I was at the high school, I was like, oh, I'm gonna check some of these while I'm here.

And to come to find out they're they were in working order.

Um, and we have no data that shows any of these being out of service.

Um, and the correct way to report if they are out of service is via 311 request.

Um, and just a little background on how we do the 311 request.

So typically at school level, um, either the school secretary or the school principal or AP will enter the 311 request.

Um Amara Anasekay and myself are typically always CC'd on those.

So we see everything that's coming through.

Um that way their way are in the loop of what's happening in all of the buildings.

But at this time we show no data saying that any of them are inoperable.

What's the say?

Uh thank you.

Uh follow-up question.

Uh yeah, it's it's great to hear they're all functioning is uh if can you tell tell us uh very briefly um how does the refilling how often do they get refilled and um if you know we have some schools that need them more than others, um and how do we address that so through you, Chair, yes, so our custodians are the ones that are refilling the products.

I don't have specific data on how frequently they're being used, you know, if um at the high school they may be being restocked more than in the K through eights.

Um I would say Liz Cortiella would be the one to have that data.

I'm happy to ask her to share that um in collaboration with DPW and the custodial staff.

Yeah, thank you for that.

Um yeah, I think just thinking since we have this item we're having this conversation about, you know, uh it can just imagine currently uh, you know, that family we have I'm sure you know that there are families who are making these choices between food on the table and you know, getting these products uh for their students is just to be um mindful of that, and if that are con if they the students you know go through them within like the first couple hours of the day to think about refilling them or they can go to the nurse.

Um having spent years, you know, in the high school building and know that's where we need them the most.

And uh yeah, that usually that's the issue where they're just they're just not on by 10 a.m.

So you go to the nurse and not every teacher, you know, will let the students go to the nurse, you know, like the whole dynamic.

So just thinking about that.

Um yeah, right now we're like learning that many families are gonna lose their snap benefits.

So I'm sure hard decisions will have to be made in terms of food on the table or getting things that students need.

Um thank you.

You're welcome.

I'm happy to get the data.

And also um in the buildings, including the high school that I have done spot checks on, they have been at least three quarters of the way full.

So it seems like they're being checked as often as toilet paper, soap, paper towels, things to that matter.

Oh, that's great to hear.

Yeah.

And the kids are using the honor system, it sounds like you know, because I imagine scenarios where you know somebody's uh taking more on this year.

Um turn it over to you, Chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um because at our schools, our students are um allowed to use whichever bathroom best represents their gender identity.

Not every student who uses a boys' room.

Um, or let me rephrase that.

Some of the students who use the boys' room may be menstruating.

And uh I noticed in the list that uh there were some gender neutral bathrooms, but they were there were no boys' rooms listed.

And and I that surprised me a little bit um for the high school.

Um I do know that you know it may get more complicated placing dispensers in the boys' rooms.

Um I don't know, Miss Barry, if you could speak a little bit about how those are placed and if that has been a topic of conversation.

Um and you know, because I I really want to make sure that we are serving all our kids and make sure that you know everyone is supported to the um uh to the best extent possible.

Um yeah, we'll leave it there.

Through you, Chair.

So I wasn't originally part of this conversation as to where the dispensers would be located within the school building, but I'm happy to find out um how the decision was made as to where they would going to be installed and get back to you on that.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Uh Ms.

Patone.

Oh, thank you through you.

I just want to thank you for bringing that up.

I think you know, obviously, there's some decision that a gender neutral balance room.

I don't want to make assumptions, but the way I'm reading this is that a gender neutral bathroom would be an option for any student that's seeking for something, but you have flagged, it looks like the only school that doesn't have one in a gender neutral bathroom is here Genziano.

Unless I'm reading it wrong.

So I'll be curious, and I just want to thank Mr.

Um Petone for five minutes.

Thank you, Miss Patone.

Okay.

So um Ms.

Barry, we'll look forward to hearing from you back about those two questions then.

And um uh I'd be happy to relay it to the other counselors here and turn it back to you, Chair Klingon.

Okay, thank you.

So do we do we want do we want to keep this thing committee?

Though I'm here.

Um to get those follow-up questions answered.

All right, we'll keep it in credit.

All right, so item number seven, madam clerk will be kept in committee.

Moving on to item and it's our last item.

Item number eight.

But the director of infrastructure and asset management provide an update on the condition of the high school building, exterior tiles, and efforts to prevent and mitigate mitigate future tile failures.

Um, I do I know I remember there was a notification that went out telling neighbors and people and folks that um there was some drone activity, there was some investigating going on, um, using the use of drones, and you know, there's certainly a lot of concern about tiles, tiles falling.

Um director.

Director Rach, you're still here, right?

And speak on this one.

Tiles high school tile situation.

Defloor is yours.

Okay, thank you, Chair.

Um, yeah, so uh we soon after uh the event happened in late September.

Uh we did provide a memo to the school committee uh and copied uh the city council on the situation.

Um so you know, I'll just sort of reference that um in terms of the history uh of the tiles.

Uh since that time, uh I believe the date of that memo was September 29th.

Uh since that time, uh we've continued investigations.

We did um bring in a a third party um an outside uh independent third party uh to review the the situation.

Um that was the company that flew the drones um that was flown on uh October 6th.

Um they turned their report right around on October 8th, um, and uh supplied that to um the company Sunrise that was doing the hands-on uh inspections.

They were thankful for that um additional uh information that helped them sort of triage and prioritize their hands-on inspection.

situation um that was the company that flew the drones um that was flown on uh uh october 6th um they turned their report right around on october 8th um and uh supplied that to um the company sunrise that was doing the hands on uh in inspections they were thankful for that um additional uh information that helped them sort of triage and prioritize their hands on inspection uh at this point in time they have finished um inspecting all the areas of the school that they could reach via boom lift um there are some additional areas that they need swing staging um to to get to and they're uh getting to those areas um this week uh and and so the entire building should be wrapped up in terms of uh the in the inspections uh by next week uh they've been documenting uh everything they've been doing they've uh brought in the manufacturer um of the system uh they're a licensed uh installer of that manufacturer uh and uh are reviewing all of their findings with that manufacturer as well uh and and they've they've been giving us updates we will get a a full report um once everything is is complete uh the the good news is that um they did discover the root cause of the the tile that fell in the rear of the the building it was the same location as last year it was the replacement tile that fell this year um they know what that that cause was they did uh a lot of investigations um uh pulling off tiles uh to see if that uh um situation was uh happening elsewhere it was it was not uh in in all the areas that they um investigated they also came up with uh a uh a less invasive way of measuring for that uh which was approved by the manufacturer and and everybody that uh reviewed it um and and proceeded to do the investigations for the remainder of the building using that methodology um there was a a nice uh sort of endorsement uh principal kirsten uh had been sort of spying on them watching them to the investigations and and uh she remarked to the team how uh thorough uh those investigations were um and and how she she was feeling assured that um you know that that the the investigation was uh being conducted in a very thorough uh manner um so uh we're hoping to have the a final report um early november uh and we can disseminate that to to um to everyone uh but things are things are tracking well okay uh i don't see any questions on our side um turning it over to chair baton uh thank you chair cling and i well i did see dr phillips with their hand up earlier is that's do you still want to speak mr vage went on to address my question so i put it down thank you has a knack for that well i will ask a question um that i i'm not sure if if you know the answer to but um well we'll give it a shot uh so i understand the the tile as with last time the tile um fell and struck a uh a parked vehicle no one was hurt thank thank goodness um do you know whether the damage to the vehicle is covered under the insurance um uh for the the building uh that's actually a good question that i can't answer it off the top of my head i'll have to get back to you um on that um i i also don't know how extensive the damage was um those buses are kind of beat up as they are um but i'll i'll get back to you with uh with a definitive answer on that appreciate that uh dr phillips sorry i did have a question what was the root cause so the the root causes and and how that panel was installed uh originally was out of specification um so the the the the it it's a it's a whole system and there are metal rails that run vertically and they have pre-drilled holes in in those metal rails um at exacting locations and then metal clips go into those rails and the terracotta tiles sit on those clips uh and and the the location of those holes are are really exact specification so that the top and bottom of those tiles sit up against that and there's also gaskets on the back that sort of provide outward force so that they don't rattle around um what had happened during the installation of that particular tile um and it's unknown why because it's clearly out of specification and and against the manufacturer's policy and against the installer's policy um but whoever put that tile in elongated those holes that the bottom holes for for the you know the the bottom of the bottom two of the four clips and so they were um larger and over time the bottom clips sort of worked their way down which meant that the the top of of it then came free from

And it's unknown why, because it's clearly out of specification and against the manufacturer's policy and against the installer's policy.

But whoever put that tile in elongated those holes, the bottom holes for for the you know, the the bottom of the bottom two of the four clips.

And so they were um larger, and over time the bottom clips sort of worked their way down, which meant that the the top of it then came free from the top clips.

Um the the installer is um mortified that one of their laborers had done that, uh, which is also why they went to the extreme measures of pulling off as many panels as they did to see that no other holes were elongated, and then came up with this measuring device that they could do that from the outside.

Um, so that was that was the root cause of it.

It was uh a laborer doing something out of specification on that one bloody tile.

And and thus began a great investigation.

Only the laborer had spent, you know.

That that goes to the the old adage measure measure twice, cut once.

Uh in this case, uh measure twice and don't cut.

Don't cut.

There we are.

All right.

Um Chair Klingon.

Um I think we're at the end.

I'll turn it to you.

Appreciate it.

Okay, great.

Well, that's everything on our agenda.

Um, any questions, madam clerk, on disposition of any items?

Are you getting everything done?

Yeah, just what would we like to do with this last item?

Oh, um recommendation from school committee side.

Uh I I think we have a commitment from Mr.

Raish to send us the final report.

So I think we can close this and uh look at that when we get it.

All right, perfect.

So we're complete on that one, madam clerk.

Uh and then I would uh counselor Davis moves to adjourn.

Uh so roll call on adjournment and the uh minutes from the September 15th meeting.

Perfect.

Okay, so on approving item number one, the minutes and adjournment.

Tensor site.

Yes.

Tensor Davis.

Yes, Chair Klingon.

Yes.

All right, it is 7 46, and that's all in favor of adjourning in the minutes.

All right.

Thank you, school committee.

Thank you.

And we are adjourned.

Appreciate it.

All right, we're good next.