Okay, I do see Clerk Fisher Cassial and the attendees.

There we go.

Hello, everyone.

Um, this is Delaney clerking tonight.

Apologies for the Zoom issues on the clerk's office side.

Thank you, and good to see you, Clerk.

Okay.

Good evening, everyone.

I'm Ben Wheeler.

I use he, him pronouns.

I'm counselor at large and finance committee chair.

It is 6 02 p.m.

and I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, March 10th, 2026 meeting of the Finance Committee of the Sumerville City Council.

Pursuant to chapter two of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

We are joined by Clerk Delaney Fisher Cassial.

Clerk, could you please call the role to establish quorum?

Absolutely.

This is roll call.

Counselor Link.

Here.

Councilor Strasbo, present.

Councillor Hart.

Here.

Counselor Scott.

Chair Wheeler.

Here.

All right.

With that, we have all but one presence, so we do have quorum.

Thank you.

We will be taking up our seven-item agenda in the order posted.

And as a general note to everyone, if I pronounce your name wrong or I get your title wrong, or use the wrong pronouns for you, please do not hesitate to interrupt me.

I want to get it right.

So item one, committee minutes, ID 26-0295.

Approval of the minutes by the finite of the Finance Committee meeting of February 24th, 2026.

Any discussion on this?

Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval.

Environment grant environment related grant requests.

Item two, mayor's request ID 26-0268.

Requesting approval to accept and expend a $31,000 grant with no new match required from the Department of Environmental Protection to the Department of Public Works for upgrades to the hazardous household waste facility.

Commissioner Wiseman and Program Manager Yoshikawa, could you please tell us about this grant?

Sure.

Sure.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, this grant is uh is uh provided by the Department of Environmental Protection uh for a number of improvements that we would like to make to our household hazardous waste facility.

Uh that is uh uh a bay located in uh at one Frany Road where we host our um monthly uh seasonal and monthly hazardous waste events.

If you have specific questions about what is included in this um upgrade, uh I'd like to invite uh my Yoshikawa to join us.

Thank you so much.

And just to be clear, uh uh manager Yoshikawa, do you have uh anything in particular to add or more waiting for questions?

Thank you, Chair.

Uh I will answer like just the broad details regarding what's covered under the award.

It includes winterization of window and water pipes, a new garage door with a pedestrian door cut outside to allow for easier entry and exit, um, purchase and installation of safety data sheets, uh, application of an oil and gas concrete sealer, educational signage and floor markers, and then PPE and spill materials.

Thank you.

Members of the committee, any questions.

Um I did have one question, and this might be more about the Frany Road facility in general.

I'm not quite sure what the the physical scope of the hazardous household waste facility itself is.

I I have been told by some residents that because at Frany Road, if you wish to speak to someone in the offices, I believe you need to go up some stairs.

Is that right?

I've only gone to drop things off and talk to somebody in the kiosk before.

Through the chair.

There that is true.

However, we installed a phone and signage at the water and sewer uh office so that which is an inaccessible entrance.

So if anybody needs somebody to speak to them, we can come downstairs and go to them.

Thanks.

I appreciate that.

That answers my question.

Any other questions or comments from anyone on the committee?

Okay, thank you both for being here.

Seeing no more discussion.

This is on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Um, moving on to item three, mayor's request ID 26-0270 requesting approval to appropriate 56,339.46 cents from the bike share stabilization fund for installation and startup costs of a blue bike station at the Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association Development Site.

I believe we have Director of Finance and Administration for the Office of Strategic Planning and Community Development, Alan Inasio here.

Um Director Inasio, if you are here, am I seeing Oh, yes, there you are.

Uh Director Inasio, could you please tell us about this appropriation?

Thank you.

Through you, Chair.

This is a relatively uh routine uh stabilization fund appropriation request back in the fall.

Um we received a uh blue bike station uh donation from the uh Boynton Union Connect Transportation Management Association.

Um so that we've gone through the process.

Uh we're ready to order uh before we order, we have to formally appropriate out from the stabilization fund.

Um there is a memo attached with the station specifics.

Um this one has a slightly unique configuration, I think because it's like an angled uh it's gonna be at an angled configuration, but pretty standard item nonetheless.

Um there's about a six-month lead time, so definitely um excited to get the vote tonight so we can get this order in queue.

Any questions, please feel free to let me know.

Thank you, Director.

Committee members, any questions for Director Adnacia.

I saw a mic go off.

Now you gotta speak.

Um, director, I I have a question.

I'm I'm a little confused just about the basics of this item.

Uh it's a donation, but the city is paying for it.

What am I missing here?

Uh through the yes, through the through the chair, good question.

Um, we do ask the various development sites, you know, usually it's larger developments uh that trigger this commercial developments, typically.

Um the reason being is that the city of Somerville is actually the entity in the regional bike share program.

Um so you know, the regional bike share program with Boston, Cambridge, Medford, Arlington, all the associated towns.

Um, and we have to purchase the station equipment from the regional bike share uh system and their contract.

So it's linked to our contract, it's ours, and you know, we kind of also um want to be in control of the process of making sure everything's standard, we install it um appropriately.

Uh we get the contract rates, um, kind of all those details.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand.

Um what is being donated here?

The value, the value of an 18-dock station.

So it's uh the value of an 18 dock station, the slab that holds the bicycles, 10 bicycles, basically like the entire fit out of the station installation.

So is this something where we are appropriating money to to initially pay for it?

And that money is going to be paid back.

No, we we collected it in advance.

I see.

We this money has been donated, and now we're going to spend this donated money.

Correct.

Well, yeah, correct.

We can we can accept funds into an existing stabilization fund.

I see every single appropriation out has to come to city council.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate that.

Uh, thanks for catching me up.

Other members of the committee, any other questions for Director Inacio.

Thank you so much for being here.

Uh, seeing no more discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

Okay.

Item four, mayor's request ID 26-0271.

Requesting approval to accept and expend a $22,800 and eight cent grant that requires a match from the Metropolitan Mayor's Coalition Community Safety Initiative to the police department for youth violence prevention.

Now I know I saw you, uh Director Wisdom, uh Summerville Police Department Director of Finance and Administration, Emily Wisdom here.

And I believe you are representing the police department on this.

So please, Director Wisdom, could you tell us about this grant and the required match?

Yes.

I just want to make sure, can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay, excellent.

So this is an annual grant that we receive.

And it is used for um it's a youth uh a youth prevention um type of grant.

And um this year we have been working to um to kind of improve our program over the last year.

Unfortunately, kind of in the middle of the year, um, we had someone, the person who was guiding this, this these grant funds being spent, um, retired, and we have uh a new person.

So um recently, Captain Uh Di Olivera was um promoted to to the captain of community relations, and he's really uh taking a wholehearted picture look at what he can do um with the funds that we have.

So in the past, we have used this grant.

Um it's it's an OT grant, so it pays for overtime.

Um, but the purpose of it is used for um hotspot patrols, um, youth police academy, and then youth basketball games that we've hosted with our our officers.

Um we're still planning to maintain the youth academy and the basketball games, but um Captain Di Olivera is looking for um new ways to kind of spend this money and invest in the youth in our community.

Um, you know, there there's been some conversations about um maybe taking them to the Mystic Center or the aquarium or things like that so that they can engage um uh and do activities like that that um that might be um something that you know uh engages the youth and um works into the overall uh prevention of you know our creation of youth safety um within our community.

Counselor, I I would add on the back of that good afternoon, everyone.

Um I would add on the back uh on the back of that three years through you, sir, is um this grant here uh has largely uh been extremely supportive and helpful in helping us reach some of our most modernized communities, uh particularly the mystics.

Um we work with them in building productive um uh pathways and relationships with them uh through sports and a range of different uh activities, as uh Emily had mentioned uh in the past.

Uh she also mentioned uh Captain Di Oliveira, who was recently promoted to the rank of captain.

Uh, he commands our community relations division, and he has uh the task of building out uh our community relations and our community policing strategy for the police department.

So this grant is extremely helpful.

Um it's been a dynamic tool that has enabled us uh progressively and perpetually over the years to really be able to engage uh some of our youth, particularly some of our youth that have some of some of the more challenging um backgrounds and experiences.

So just want to give you some additional context uh in terms of how we use that and the types of individuals and young persons that we're looking to engage.

Hi, sorry to jump in.

Could you just um verbally state your name and uh position for the recommendation?

Yes, I'm I'm I'm sorry, I I didn't see you there on Emily's call.

Uh this is Summerville Police Department Chief Shumaine Benford.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thank you, Chief.

Members of the committee, do you have any questions for Director Wisdom and Chief Benford?

Okay, thank you.

Um I'd be excited to you know continue to hear updates about this.

Uh it sounds like a I've got my hand up.

Oh, please.

Uh I'm I'm sorry, I'm I'm not looking.

Uh, okay.

I I apologize looking at the wrong set of Zoom screens, and I see two hands here.

Counselor Link.

Uh yeah, so uh I I um I love everything that I'm hearing.

What I love less, I I'm looking at the the actual um the requirements of this grant, and I see that um one of the provisions is uh contribution uh of daily crime data to um the mass fusion centers, uh particularly cop link.

Um so uh which would I be right in characterizing that as a system that ICE has access to, and that we would be uploading um everything from what I I was trying to do some research on this, so I don't know if I've got it all right.

But it we are uploading data that would be stuff like parking tickets, accident reports, uh complaints, and of course, arrest data.

Um is that true?

Thank you very much for the question, Counselor.

Um what I would add is is everything that you just named is a matter of a public record.

It's already publicly disclosed and accessible uh for anyone coming in.

Um it is a condition of the grant uh that that information has to be shared.

But again, um A it is shared uh because it is a public uh public information, they're public reports um available, um eligible for anyone.

And B, uh the state uh has uh the relationship in the contract uh with cop link uh for departments across the Commonwealth to be able to access and use for investigative purposes.

Okay.

Uh I guess to um to share just it sounds to me like it's a real easy way for um immigration enforcement to uh quick and easy access to data and uh we've already seen some people uh arrested at our um for routines that being arrested at the courts.

And I I just have to wonder if that's um if this is um if this is giving them if this is supporting those efforts.

Uh it definitely it gives me a pretty large amount of pause.

I I just want to underscore, and I appreciate you sharing that council.

I just want to underscore again, it's already public record, uh, nothing that we are uh disclosing by our own volition.

Um it's already public record, uh, you know, the Massachusetts Law A.

Um, and I do, you know, I would hate to uh you know discard all of the enormous gains that we've made as a community by engaging this group, and I believe some of your colleagues uh may even have persons that are close to them that have benefited uh from this over the years.

So we have guide rails uh in place.

Um, but again, um, you know, public information, information that's accessible to anyone.

Uh we have very limited capacity to not share that information, but to be clear, that is a condition of it, but I want to just underscore that this benefits some of our most marginalized and disfranchised persons.

Yeah, I would I would argue that it also potentially um hurts some of our most vulnerable people.

Um yeah, uh I I'm I understand the the huge value here, but I also understand that there's but it seems to me that there's also it's uh there's a bit of a poison pill in there from in my mind.

Uh sorry, I'm still muted.

Counselor Strazo, please.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I will be supporting this grant.

This is a grant for some of the new counselors who are in four meetings of uh the finance committee.

Um, this is a grant that has existed for numerous years, and it is also in line with supporting um as some of our counselors have, um, claimed is an important value, finding ways to keep kids engaged, and also helping out kids that are some of our most disenfranchised in the community.

Um this is an ongoing program that has uh been going on for many years, and a lot of parents um are happy to put their kids in this program, especially the basketball game, which the kids in the mystics and the parents in the mystics continuously love to have.

It is a big thing.

And in my in my first term of office, I remember how important it was to get the um bleachers put in for the mystics uh uh tenant uh area because there weren't even bleachers for the basketball games.

This is absolutely a grant that helps support our most disenfranchised and also many kids in the in our city that um need assistance for parents that um need more uh opportunities for their kids uh to connect with the community.

And um it would be disappointing if um counselors find reasons to poke holes in in services that provide a lot of help to a lot of the poorest in the city.

So I will absolutely be supporting this.

I've seen the good work come throughout this.

Thank you, counselor, counselor Hart.

Thank you.

Through you, Chair Wheeler, to um Chief Binford, uh thank you for that information.

I just have a a question because I'm I'm guessing that this requirement might not be only in this grant.

Like what, like if outside of this grant, is that data shared through Coplink?

You know, because of other requirements.

If you could tell us more about that.

One moment, ma'am.

This is the only one off the top of my head that I am aware of that explicitly uh acts for this.

Um I stop full short of saying uh that there may not be others, but we are not aware of them off the top.

This is the only one that expressly uh asked for it uh that we're aware of.

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question uh to that, uh, Chief Benford and Director Wisdom.

Is the the data sharing in question um data that we would not otherwise be sharing with the fusion center?

It's it's not the it's so it's this particular no-foot is attached to the Commonwealth of Mass.

Um so in Massachusetts, uh as you and others may be aware, uh there are two fusion centers.

Uh the BRIC supports the Metro Boston region, and there's the Commonwealth Fusion Center.

Um so again, other than publicly accessible information, uh, we don't share.

Uh, you know, certain reports and information are automatically imboggled.

So sensitive investigations, uh, investigations uh involving persons that may be the victim of sexual assault, domestic violence, uh, all that information is emboggled.

Thanks.

Part of the background that I just want to recognize here is we're in very uncharted territory nationally, right?

Um, I think in many other years, we could have a degree of confidence in the range of possible uses of data that we would be sharing.

Uh given that we're in this environment where there's there's a lot of uncertainty about exactly what the implications of different types of sharing are.

Uh I want to make sure that we're taking seriously the um the challenge of really understanding what these kinds of requirements mean.

Uh I do want to want to really uh express appreciation for the expertise, Director Wisdom and Chief Benford, that you are both clearly bringing to bear here in reassuring the committee that this data is already publicly available.

I do know that there's different levels of readiness of availability.

And um I didn't, you know, we're we're in a sort of environment where even something like this, I didn't catch this provision on you know page four of this uh of this particular document.

So I I just want I don't want to um I want to acknowledge that we're we're navigating something truly difficult here.

Uh I think uh I can only speak for myself.

The last thing I would I would want to do is arbitrarily stand in the way of you know what seems like uh a wonderful program.

And uh I do want to make sure that we're we're fully understanding the implications of these various requirements before we move ahead.

Um that this item that seems so innocuous had something that there's legitimate questions, I think uh attached to.

I think procedurally, um, we as a council um and a city staff need to maybe do more to proactively note and highlight and and address and discuss the implications uh of these questions so that we're not um you know, we're not just in the moment having to make uh a quick judgment on it.

Uh and I I will uh go back to another cycle through our committee members.

Uh Counselor Lang.

Uh Mr.

President.

Oh, oh, I'm I'm sorry, Chief Benford, please go ahead.

I just want to reply.

Thank you so much for chairman.

Thank you.

Are we muted?

Yep, okay.

Thank you so much for sharing.

I just want to quickly uh just share that.

Um, you know, I appreciate your comments.

I appreciate uh the the ability to have a conversation.

Um I just want to underscore two points.

One, um we are committed to this city and the value set as well.

And we and our officers, our uh our civilian staff work extremely hard to make sure that we adhere to uh the value sets uh of our community um and engaging in and with our partners and accepting resources.

So um we're all advocates tirelessly uh in that place uh in that space in furtherance of our communities.

I would also say uh that as we look at this this this uncharted territory, uh let us not let us not lose sight of the tremendous work and gains that have been made as a result of it.

Um and the tremendous price on the other side of allowing some of those errant practices to set us back as a community.

I have felt it directly as a police officer, uh, and walking and working in this city uh as a result of the work that some of our federal colleagues have done, but I'm unwilling to give up um and remain committed to building on those relationships that we've born and I would just caution that uh by adhering and walking down some of these paths that we could inadvertently be setting ourselves up for down the road for what the side effects or the uh you know the uh the backside of those decisions are.

So I just want to highlight that that we're all committed to it.

One, two, recognize the tremendous work that has been done with the support of this grant and that we continue to do.

And then thirdly, think about the relationship that this department and the officers do every day in building and working hard with those relationships.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate that, Chief.

Counselor Link.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, through you.

So first of all, I just want to address uh I think some of the the really um the very great things that um Chief Benford just said, uh, you know, that I really um I so appreciate that that we do have um a police force that is uh fully committed to you know the uh welcoming communities um and making sure that that we're um we're trying to do right.

But uh I guess I my my my question I I guess to to put a fine point on it is uh I guess are we 100% confident that um the data uploaded to Copling will not result in uh an ICE action against one of our residents.

Thank you very much for the question.

I I think you're asking uh a question that um I can't answer.

Um I think just as we've mentioned, right, 100% this this administration um and some of the actions I think have challenged um everything about our social systems.

Um and again, um I I could what if it um a million different ways?

Um, no doubt about it, and still not come up with uh definitive answer.

Um as I said, we're committed to doing the right thing.

We've done it boots on the ground, we've had conversations, we've gone out above and beyond with our officers here to try and mitigate those impacts uh that we know are gonna have that we're gonna have uh in our community A, and quite frankly, that we SPD are gonna be left to deal with uh when this is all said and done.

So no, I cannot 100% guarantee that.

But what I would tell you is we're working every day uh to ensure that the values of this department and this community are what stands uh out front.

Through you, thank you, Chief Metro.

Counselor Strezzo.

Uh thank you.

Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the conversation.

It's good to be thorough.

So I I do want to say that um it's important to check, check everything.

But I want to make clear that we've already established as a community, as an each of us as counselors that we're not interested in uh compliance with ice and we're not interested in supporting ice and again, this is a value that each of us hold.

And we have to be very careful alongside that value that we're not accidentally uh disenfranchising members of our community through programs like this one, which has existed for many years.

If you've been in the community enough, you know about it, you've heard about it.

You know parents and families that have used it.

And we have to make sure that we're not that yes, that we're being careful, but at the same time that uh quick judgments, you know, again, these programs have been here for a while.

And to be cautious that that we're not harming our kids and our families in the process of doing this.

Um if this information is already public record and out there, then I guess that's all I have to say.

Thank you, Counselor Strezzo.

Um, Chief Benford and Director Wisdom.

Uh I I guess I'm still curious to know more about uh to what degree is this information already available.

Uh I'm trying to apply a practical lens here.

Understanding that there are there are sometimes things that superficially seem alarming, but as you've sort of alluded with this, uh may not actually change what information is available.

But I've also heard in some of the questions we've discussed that we're not sure if this information being shared could lead to impacts on members of our community.

So I have questions now, and and to whatever degree you're prepared to answer about this data, its availability, its sharing in more detail now, that would be helpful.

I'm also wondering is this something where taking a pause on this, having a longer uh a longer discussion, coming up with a more informative background data about this data share sorry, background memo about this data sharing.

Is that something that could be helpful?

Um perhaps between now and and Thursday's council meeting.

Thank you so much, uh Mr.

Sheer uh for the question.

One is it's it's pretty cut and dry and it's pretty clear.

The information is 100% unequivocally a public record.

You could walk in off the street uh to our front counter to the records window and ask for any police report that you want.

Save for the ones that are sensitive, for which we purposely embargo, uh, like a sensitive investigation, or one that is protected by law, such as a sexual assault and/or domestic violence.

Um all of our public, all of our police reports are 100% public record accessible uh to the community and any member of the public for that matter at any time.

Thank you, Chief.

I think the distinction that that I'm imagining in my head is between formal availability with a slow request and response process versus fast database searchability that can be can be accessed more readily um, you know, say by a federal agency casting a wide net.

Yep.

So I I you know, again, we're all very committed to protecting everyone.

The assumption is is that you know, the one possible assumption is that you know that the implement if every bit of information is going to be uh used against a member of our community.

Again, we wanna have those safeguards, and that certainly is the approach.

Um, but I I I do think that we're at a granular level um with this that doesn't substantially change uh you know with the delay in the conversation.

I just want to highlight that it's public access and public record, and yes, right.

Uh could it be uh laborious for someone to do that work?

Uh absolutely.

But again, this is about what can we do for our residents as an entity of the city of Somerville.

And as much as we want to protect, I don't think the intent is to make anyone's uh you know, anyone's job under city government harder, A, and as the counselor put it, certainly to further disenfranchised persons.

So again, I just you know, argue and reiterate to answer your question.

Um again, um, you know, we could have very broad conversations and be granular in that space forever.

Um, but it is public record.

We're all committed to the community and certainly not committed um to purposely exposing anyone.

And I don't believe that this does that.

As the commit as the uh counselor has said, this has been a long-standing grant that has been used to support um our community for many, many years, and I don't think that substantially changes.

Thank you, Chief.

And uh, and I want to appreciate what you're saying about the intentions here.

I think part of what's so difficult about navigating something like this for all of us is that we're in an environment where our intentions, your intentions, police staff's intentions um can be excellent, but there are other intentions out there that are not.

And uh, and so there are some difficult questions I think that come up given good intentions on the part of those of us in Somerville.

How do we accommodate uh how do we account for the um the lack of good intentions elsewhere?

Counselor Hart.

Thank you.

Um and I want to appreciate you, Chief Benford and and you as well, Chair Wheeler, for uh laying these issues out.

Um it is, I feel like really uh difficult.

Um I wanted to ask about the program and you know, this almost 23,000.

Like if we didn't have this grant, you know, would could the program continue with an allocation um in the city budget for 23,000.

Uh counselors, thank you so much for the question to the chair.

Um, everything is a dolls in uh issue in question, right?

Right now, we are not budgeted uh for that.

Um, and as we always say, right, uh, you know, layperson's level, um, you know, anything is available uh for price.

If we're willing to pay for it as a community in the many different areas for which we've built uh robust city services and police services uh to benefit our community.

Um I think that there are many areas that we receive federal funds um that we'll have to have a difficult type conversation with this.

So um the short answer is yes, if the city is willing to fund it, that there's an opportunity.

I always hate to miss an opportunity to use external funds uh to help us offset the needs uh and the benefit of our community, so that's some of those difficult funds from very limited city budget uh can be used for other priorities.

Um short answer is yes, if the city is willing to fund it, uh, but would just you know caution that I I imagine across many departments, certainly not to speak for them that this is a conversation that this body and others will have to contemplate um if that's sort of the posture that we have.

Thank you, Chief.

Uh as a follow-up to Counselor Hart's question, um, the the $5,720 match, is that something that comes from police department general funding?

Yes, each year we ask for uh um the city council match with our with our budget.

Thank you.

Um members of the committee, uh I'm curious if uh you have the inclination to take a roll call vote.

Uh yes or no to recommend this now, or if anyone is interested in moving to possibly discharge this without a recommendation um to to take it up with the broader council.

Counselor Strezzo.

I'm sorry, Mr.

Chair.

Again, this is a program that has existed for numerous years, and it helps kids at risk, and it helps kids that are frequently disenfranchised.

And I think we have to really take a sense of self-reflection here.

I'm willing to vote for it tonight.

Um, and I will vote yes, because I know I know what kids in our city this impacts.

It is the poorest kids.

It is the most disenfranchised, it is the most at risk.

And I've seen the successes in it.

And um, there are definitely definitely uh line items that we should check in with and double check and and confirm, etc.

But we also have to be careful in our roles of the negative impacts that each of us could have by finding reasons why we can't support things and support the poorest kids and a program that has helped kids and families for a long time.

Each of us chose this role and claimed we do this, did this to help our community.

So I'm fine to vote for it tonight.

Thank you, counselor.

Counselor Link.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, I just want to note that there's no bigger disenfranchisement than being sent to a detention center where you have no rights um and you may be um you know killed through um uh a toothache that uh refuses to that the detention center people refuse to see.

So while I would agree that there is definitely uh a positive impact of this program, I have to note there's a very very potential large downside that will uh not only dispotentially disenfranchise people, but some of these poor kids could lose a parent or both parents or be sent away.

I um move to discharges without a recommendation.

Mr.

Chair on that.

I'm sorry, Counselor Strezzo, there's there's been a motion and just as a point of order, I want to refer to the clerks here.

Okay, but Mr.

Chair, on that um thank you.

Please just just point of order.

I I'd just like to hand the floor to the to Clerk Fisher Cassiol.

That is fine, but I it is against the rules.

And as chair, it if if that sounds like some conflation, and it sounds like counselor link was making some accusations, and I think that is inaccurate, and I think that's against our rules.

Thank you.

I appreciate I appreciate the clarity.

There should be there should be no acceptable.

I think we all agree there should be no accusations or conflations across the table.

Everyone is is addressing the chair.

Um and I appreciate that clarity.

Correct.

And I doubt it there should be no disrespect or conflation in trying to make uh assumptions that are that are complete.

Okay.

Thank you.

And and and I just want to recognize we're dealing with with intense topics here, and we're all coming from a place of caring.

Um I I want to respect, I see uh counselor Hart's hand, and I just want to refer to Clerk Fisher Cassial because there was a motion to discharge without a recommendation.

But according to the rules, if a counselor is attempting to uh it is against rules to insult each other.

So and that needs to be called out.

And point of order, I was not insulting anyone.

Yeah, thank thank you.

I I can only speak for myself here.

I didn't hear an insult.

I did hear, I did hear uh fear and okay and concern.

And uh and I I want to encourage everyone on the committee to make sure that we are speaking, you know, uh uh about the pros and cons of of decisions and and propositions as we see it and make sure we are not addressing or referring to other counselors.

Correct.

So that is not acceptable for account counselors to try to do that or complaint or accuse.

We're all here and we're all on the same page that we we we want to care for our community.

Thank you, counselor.

Uh Clerk Fisher Cassial.

Uh given that there's been a motion to discharge without a recommendation.

Is this a situation where we can continue the discussion or do we need to address that motion now?

Um to be fully honest, this is uh a unique situation that I'm not 100% sure on.

Um so I don't want to give a clear answer.

Um perhaps um if um I see IGA is um in this meeting, perhaps they could give a a set answer.

I want to make sure that we're not leading anyone astray here.

Um Rajisi, um, not to put you on the spot, um, but could you maybe speak to this?

And if not, I can check with the clerk's office to get um an official answer.

Uh Lee S and Radassi.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um IGA does not feel comfortable weighing in on procedural matters for the city council.

No worries.

All right, I will check with the clerk's office, so um let's hold for now and I will get a definite answer.

Uh thank you.

And can I just say my my best guess procedurally is that a motion has been put on the table, but we can be discussing that that motion and the question of whether that's how we want to proceed or not uh as part of our discussions.

Do you want to just call for a vote on that then?

But Ms.

Counselor Hart.

Well, I yeah, I I didn't want to do that without hearing from Counselor Hart, and I just wanted to make sure we were doing this.

So uh Clerk, if if it's okay with you, I'm going to go ahead and invite Counselor Hart to comment on the matters before Ash.

Sure.

Chair, can I just um I think um I assume Councilor Hart doesn't want to talk about the the motion.

I do.

Oh, okay.

Okay, I'll take it back.

I was gonna say I would withdraw the motion, but that's okay.

Sorry, I appreciate everyone's patience.

I'm gonna go ahead and call on counselor Hart to speak on this motion.

Okay, thank you.

Um yes, on the motion.

Uh personally, I wouldn't mind discharging without a recommendation.

I I really see this um in all of these decisions as you know, weighing the risks and the benefits.

Um obviously this it sounds like a wonderful program that has a lot of benefits.

Um and I just want to be sure I understand any risks uh before uh taking them.

So I wouldn't mind uh more time.

Thank you.

Thank you, counselor.

I think we are now waiting to hear back from Clerk Fisher Cassial.

Yes, and um Chair Wheeler, so just to confirm, um, we want clarification on if we have to go ahead and proceed with that vote.

Um and or if we can continue the conversation, correct?

Yeah, I I I think we're okay.

I I think we are okay to um to go ahead and um and do a vote on whether to discharge without a recommendation.

Okay, I I will say I do believe that we we have to go through with um finishing discussing the motion.

Yeah.

And you know what else uh on that uh Mr.

Chair I think Councillor Strezzo.

Thank you.

I think it number one, we all signed up to be city councillors to make sometimes difficult decisions.

And every um line item can't be punted to the regular city council.

This is a committee to make decisions.

So I just want to remind colleagues of that.

Second, um, we need to determine if there is a time crunch on accepting this grant or not.

So uh through you, Mr.

Chair, to uh anyone in IGA or whom is to speak on this item.

Do you have that information?

Mr.

Chair, uh sorry, Castle Lanka, Liaison Rodazi is is as something IGA has just been mentioned.

Is that something you have any comment to make on?

The chair, I would defer to the police department.

Right.

They they should still be here, right?

Yeah, we are.

Chief Chief Benford and and director wisdom.

Um, would you speak to the the time constraints and timeliness?

Yes, uh one moment of uh uh director wisdom will we'll speak to it.

I just want to underscore uh again that delay in taking the funds as we enter the warm weather and the peak season for young persons that are home, it is going to impact services and programming for young persons.

Uh so I would just pause uh and director wisdom can give you some factual dates that are um that are attached to the grant, but I want uh again that to be underscored by this directly impacts real world real-time programming.

Um the chair, um, we have we do have till November 30th of 2026 to spend it.

Um, but as Chief mentioned, we do do a lot of our programming in the summer, and we're coming up on that.

Um Mr.

Chair, through you can uh can we get some specifics on that?

Where are some specific and and Counselor Strezzo, I uh I hate to do this.

If you wouldn't mind uh raising your hand and but Counselor Strezzo, please continue.

Nope, you're right.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

You're right, Mr.

Chair.

Um I will uh yeah, okay.

Um through you too, um uh Emily uh wisdom and uh and Chief, can you please give us some uh timelines of the schedule of programming, please, and when decisions have to be secured to uh assemble these programs, including the uh the basketball game?

Uh thank you very much, counselor, and through the chair.

Um I don't have the schedule ahead of me, but what I can tell you is is that uh during the spring months uh we start to do outreach uh to our respective communities around programming that is going to happen in uh late spring uh as well as early summer.

Uh so consistent with uh many persons that have uh many families that have young persons that look for programming.

These conversations start in the spring in earnest.

Um they will include the basketball game, they will include uh the uh assistance police academy, uh, for which many of our young persons uh participate in.

So a range of those different services will happen throughout late spring and through the summer.

Uh however, outreach and work in that space uh will start in earnest uh in the spring.

Uh just uh you know as as the warm weather transitions.

Thank you, Chief.

Counselor Strezo.

Thank you.

When does uh the announcement with the REC department have to go out and uh location secured, I assume.

Yeah, those are all things that will be being done by uh community engagement now around space.

Um as you know, um much of our program uh programming does occur over at the mystics, um, and that space uh often has to be secured uh months in advance uh because they too have programming as well as other partners uh that come in.

Uh there are uh reservations of uh school space where we hold some programming uh for young persons um as well as uh potentially some uh public fields uh that do require some type of either reservation and interaction uh and res uh and engagement with uh the pox and rec department.

Thank you, Chief.

Um to to take a turn speaking uh and and to return to the question, I I want to recognize the the real validity of the points that Counselor Strezzo you've made and Chief Benford uh you have made as well about the value of a program like this.

Uh again, in my mind, uh it's one of the many frustrating and uh and in some ways frightening uh aspects of the uh policy reality that we are in recently in this country, that something as wonderful and innocuous as as this program uh is being tied to these kinds of of sharing that you know it and I take the point about uh there not being a qualitative difference in the information that's shared, but perhaps a quantitative uh a volume difference in the data that's shared.

In my mind, and and to your valid point, Counselor Stress, uh sorry, to to the valid point that the good good at large counselor, I'll try to take my own advice and not not be directly addressing the the point that was raised uh about our making decisions uh as finance committee members.

How I at least see my role on the finance committee as a as a voting member is uh that I'm trying to consider questions of financial efficacy.

Uh and that that that's the the real solid purview of this committee in in my view, as I understand it.

It's not the only understanding, of course.

Uh when we're talking about um unexpected aspects that that come along that are not questions of financial efficacy, uh, but questions of financial value, social value with these other kinds of trade-offs.

That's where to my mind I start to wonder uh about a matter moving beyond just the domain of the finance committee.

Um I'm seeing a hand from uh director wisdom and and Chief Benford.

Sure.

I I think that there's a motion, and uh I think at that point we're only supposed to be on the motion and uh debating on the motion.

Um I appreciate that.

Clerk I yeah, I checked in um with our clerk's team, and um Peter within the clerk's office has advised me that Chair Wheeler, essentially it is up to you if you want to go ahead and take that vote or if you want to continue conversation.

Um it's really at your discretion.

Thank you, Clerk.

I appreciate that.

Um Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, I see a hand.

Um very briefly, um, I just want to acknowledge two things.

Um this issue is so important that many members of our team that are not being compensated uh are watching online um and have shared that to the uh councillor Strezzo's early appointment, Mr.

Chair uh question um around engagement with our partners.

Uh we we have started those conversations um even earlier than we have uh in the past and uh have met with uh our partners over with our parks from Rex and other departments as it relates to scheduling and planning out our junior police academy for our youth.

Um I would also look to acknowledge uh some of us, the colleagues uh that helped reorient me uh this uh some of this discussion came up last year uh around uh crime link uh and uh and uh uh and the information uh cop link and the information being shared with our federal partners.

As I testified to earlier, uh it is EOPS in the state that maintains the contract that uh cities and towns are able to use uh that uh resource uh on behalf of and they have they testified last year that they do not share and do not uh allow federal partners to have access uh to that data in that system.

Again, that's testimony uh that that was uh provided by the state.

Thank you, Chief Benford.

Counselor Strezzo.

Okay, so just so I have it clear that the data is not shared federally.

So that kind of uh uh that is uh so it's not shared.

So uh that that kind of uh alleviates some of the concerns of our colleagues, it sounds like uh Lehzahan Radasi.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yes, um, just to support what Chief Benford just said, I should have looked up an email thread that I knew.

Counselor St.

Um, Counselor Scott had reached out to uh EOPS last year about this to ask what kind of information sharing there is with federal agencies.

So I did it while we were having this conversation, and I want to confirm EOPS's response was the Commonwealth Fusion Center does not provide crime tracer access to any federal partners.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lia Zan Rodassi.

And I'm sorry, just as a follow-up on that crime tracer.

That's the first time I've heard that term in this conversation.

Apologies, Mr.

Chair, uh Crime Tracer is another name for cop link.

Okay.

So they changed their name.

Thank you.

So it's been confirmed in a previous year uh in response to a similar set of questions that it is our belief that there is no data sharing through CopLink with this data with the federal government.

Correct.

Um Counselor Scott reached out to EOPS, and I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing this.

Um to ask about information sharing between crime tracers slash cop link and federal agencies allowed by funding grant agreements.

And the response was that the fusion center does not provide crime tracer access to any federal partners.

My apologies.

I should have looked it up in my inbox earlier to pull this information.

Thank you.

Counselor Link, thank you for your patience.

Yeah, uh, thank you, Chair.

I I'd love to see that in writing.

Uh I'm I'm I'm happy to hear it, but I would love to actually see it.

Yes, and I I just want to uh I want to appreciate your your finding that liaison Radassi.

And I I just want to to ask all of us to make sure that we are keeping in mind that we are in this unusual environment and questions like this are going to come up.

And uh I think the more that we can be making context available uh before our finance committee meetings, I think the more ready we all can be to decide on these matters.

Counselor Strezzo.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair.

Um, why don't uh why doesn't why doesn't uh IGA, why don't you just uh send an email right now and we can review that and uh have that in writing uh per uh counselor link's request and we can just uh take a quick recess and take a look at those actual uh forms in writing.

It's all an email.

And then uh come back to committee.

Thank you, Counselor Streso.

Uh Counselor Link.

Uh thank you, Chair.

I'm a memo to the the good counselor's um uh suggestion.

I would also though would request that it um that we get it in.

I would like that to be part of the public record.

I want uh I would like that um when our our members of the public um rightly look at this and have a lot of questions um that they have uh uh the resource to understand what we're understanding.

Thank you, Counselor Link.

Counselor Strezzo.

Thank you.

Okay.

So it's a call to question for us as a a the finance committee body to vote.

Uh from committee.

And so then uh we have confirmation of our concerns.

And I suggested that we email, and again, the emails are coming to the council is public record.

Uh so we have that.

And whether or not we take a vote on that, uh, it's still public record.

And so we can pause, have that information that IgA just shared with us.

We can have it send email.

We can look at it, take a recess.

10 minutes.

We're already uh a whole hour into this meeting.

So uh, and then we could uh uh take a look, come back, we can further deliberate, and maybe we can make decisions on the many agenda items that we have that we are assigned in this committee to make decisions on with a yes or no, but a decision.

So that's what I'm proposing, Mr.

Chair.

I know that we have a um a uh call for a decision to discharge in committee first.

Uh, but also um we already we have uh information that we can uh look for ourselves for those counselors that are still kind of scratching their heads on on what direction to go or consider.

Thank you.

Thank you, Counselor Strezzo.

Counselor Link.

Uh yeah.

So just um yeah, uh uh to uh our Counselor Low Large's point.

Uh we do still have a motion on the table.

Um, so I think we need to take care of that um before we uh entertain any other motions.

Um and then um I I I'm not suggesting um that we necessarily um delay the the vote.

Um I'm saying that I do want it to be part of the um I want it to be accessible about to the public without the FOIA request.

Thank you, Counselor Lank.

Um Clerk.

Can you help me with uh uh I would like us to take a recess.

Is that something that we can do well?

I would like to withdraw my motion, Chair.

Counselor Link.

Uh, I think that does simplify things a bit.

Um, I just want to flag this is like an email exchange between Councillor Scott and E.

So I I can cop I I kind of want to check with Counselor Scott first to make sure that he's okay with me sharing the information out to the committee.

Um, I'm not sure what kind of like privacy situation would be involved there, so I just want to make sure before I share anything.

Um, but I did read um what the email exchange said.

The Ralph.

Why don't we take a ten minute recess for Councillor Strasbo's suggestion?

Um be in touch about these procedural matters.

Uh, we might be able to, you might be able to communicate with Counselor Scott.

And why don't we reconvene in ten minutes?

How does that sound to everyone?

All right, thanks.

Um please.

Uh was that Councillor Stresso?

I sure did.

I said okay dokie.

Sorry, Mr.

Chair, raising my hand.

Hold on one second.

Raising my hand.

Thank you.

Um, thank you, everybody.

Let's reconvene at seven thirteen.

I appreciate everyone's patience.

Hi, everyone.

Calling this meeting back to order.

Clerk, uh, do we need to take a roll call to re-establish quorum or can we just resume?

We may need to wait a moment for uh Christian Cassial.

Yes, yep, we'll need to um do roll call to re-establish quorum.

Great.

Clerk, could you please take a roll call to reestablish quorum?

Yep.

All right, Councilor Link.

Here.

Counselor Strazzo, present.

Counselor Hart.

Here.

Counselor Scott.

Chair Wheeler.

Here.

All right, with that, we have four members present, so we do have quorum.

Okay.

Mayor's request ID twenty-six-zero two seven one.

I spoke during the recess with legislative liaison Radassi.

Uh Liaison Rodassi um has the email in question and is in the process of redacting it to make sure that the version that's shared is proper.

Yes.

Excellent.

Okay.

With appreciation for everybody's perspectives and their patience.

Requesting approval to accept and expend a forty-three thousand dollar grant with no new match required from the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the police department for software.

Chief Benford and Director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this grant?

Schneider, um, who I believe may be in the gallery, um, as well as our Yasmin and the entire IGA team um helping us uh in this space.

Um I want to just flat um at a very high level uh Mr.

Chair, um as I mentioned in the past, um you know, we have the dubious task of working through some very difficult challenges, uh, but also providing police services, particularly to those that have been victimized or those that are in need of uh uh of our services.

And um I just want to um uh again highlight that we are all equally committed to uh to this community in policing in a way uh that uh honors our uh value set uh with regards to the forty-three thousand dollars.

Um we know that those funds were going to be used uh to support two key initiatives uh that are extremely helpful for us um and our specific mandate, one uh being great key uh and the other uh being blue voice.

Um I know that counselor Link uh had submitted several questions uh that he had uh for which we were able to reach out to the vendor.

Uh they worked uh over the weekend in addition to some others uh to try and get responses to those questions.

Um and I also know uh that counselor Hart uh submitted uh two questions uh additionally uh that we uh would be able to uh to speak to this evening.

Um, and I'd like to just uh recognize Sergeant uh Detective Sergeant Schneider, uh, who uh should be in the gallery, uh, who commands uh several of our units and detectives uh to speak a little more about the technology and provide some uh some detailed grind information around how it's uh how it's used um and how it's uh more spoken more importantly, how it's used to benefit uh this department in our community.

Detective Sergeant Devin Schneider, I I see you and recognize you.

Um would you would you please address the committee?

Uh to the chair, thank you.

Uh counselors, uh good evening, everybody.

My name's Devin Schneider.

I'm a detective sergeant with the Somerville Police Department.

I supervise the special investigation unit, and uh one of my duties is to oversee the digital forensics team.

Um just here to talk to you a little bit about Grey Key, uh, how we've what this tool is and how we've used it in the past two years since we've had it.

Uh Grey Key is a specialized digital forensics tool that um is used by law enforcement.

Uh what it does is it allows us to um access and extract data from mobile devices uh during criminal investigations.

The system allows us to attempt to lawfully unlock mobile devices and conduct forensics examination, recover digital evidence.

Uh digital evidence in mobile devices is now one of the most important um sources of evidence in modern criminal investigations, and it's a standard tool in contemporary policing to have the ability to be able to access and extract data from uh mobile devices in these investigations.

So a couple of examples of how we would use this tool.

Um, in cases where investigators believe that a mobile phone might contain evidence of a crime.

Detectives first have to establish what's called probable cause, apply for a search warrant through the court.

This process typically involves um preparing an affidavit, which outlines the facts of the investigation, explain why we believe evidence of the offense is likely to be on the device that we're looking at.

Uh a judge or a clerk magistrate would review the affidavit, and if they determine that probable cause is established, uh they grant a warrant which authorizes um law enforcement to conduct a forensic examination of the phone uh or unlocking of the phone.

Uh once that warrant's issued, the device can be examined using special forensics tools such as Gray Key, where we would unlock the device, extract digital evidence, um, which can include communications, photos, videos, location data, or anything that's specifically relevant to the case that we're investigating.

A couple important things to note is that um phones are never unlocked without a legal without legal authority.

Um just having a phone committing a crime doesn't mean that we're applying for a search warrant for a phone.

There has to be um what we we would call um a nexus to the phone, meaning that that phone has some was somehow involved uh in that criminal aspect.

Uh many investigations, especially those that involve victims of crimes such as sexual assault, domestic violence or exploitation.

Um investigators can examine a mobile device with voluntary consent from the victim.

Victims also provide written consent, allowing us to conduct difference examination, um, other phones so investigators can recover evidence such as messages, photos, social media communications, or other digital evidence that's related to the crime.

Uh these consent searches allow investigators to um quickly obtain that critical information um and also supporting the victims who are actively cooperating with the investigation.

Um Grey Key kind of operates in two capacities uh in the in the sense that we have it is the first one is what we call brute forcing a phone.

That's where we hook it up to the Great Key machine.

Uh and Gray Key will attempt to do an unlock of the phone if we don't have the password.

Um we have that search warrant.

We're that's what we're looking for.

System also provides the capability to conduct a full forensic extraction of cellular phones once access to the devices is obtained.

These extractions are considered among the most advanced in digital forensics um industry, and in our experience, it provides a very rich data set.

Um as a result, investigators, we frequently use Grey Key as our primary method uh in Somerville to access lock phones and uh the primary platform that we're using to do these comprehensive forensic examinations on mobile phones.

Uh we've had Grey Key now for about two years, and in that time we've done um 58 digital device examinations.

Um of those 58, approximately 70% uh of those examinations were done using Grey Key.

Most of these cases involved violent crimes, sexual assault, firearm offenses, or crimes against children.

Um just a breakdown of um highlight some of these crimes.

Arm uh six were from robbery, arm robbery.

Six were from firearm offenses, four were from um shootings, sixteen of these cases involved the sexual assault or rape.

Four of these cases involved uh child abuse or a child sex offense.

Two of these cases were um elder abuse, three of these are three of these uh devices involved the homicide.

Uh two of these devices involved either a suicide or overdose investigation, and um the other 15 cases are are spread out between cases such as domestic violence, civil rights violations, school threats, uh drugs um or just uh simple larceny cases.

Um an important distinction between uh the consent and the you know uh search warrant is uh for our stats is we're it's split about 50 percent.

Half of our examinations that we've done have been through a search warrant, half of them are are done through consent.

Usually when we're doing consent, it's more um uh uh involving a victim in the case would provide consent because um typically, if we're doing an investigation, what we would want to get is um uh we would want to get a search warrant.

Um it's just preferred more legally, so it doesn't look like we're trying to coerce a suspect.

Uh it's always more uh legally sound to get that search warrant than even if they're presenting consent.

So it's pretty rare in the in the instances where we would do a consent search of a of a phone if it involved uh a suspect that we were obtaining the device from some of the benefits of maintaining uh gray key in-house is you know it lets us to access encrypted device lawfully.

Uh we can recover that digital evidence quickly, um, a lot more quickly than if we were to try and farm it out to a lab.

Uh labs typically have a 20-day wait associated with them.

So if we're investigating a crime, especially a crime um that has some kind of exigent circumstance, it could be a long wait.

Um having the ability in-house strengthens our investigations and the and the prosecutions because our own investigators are the ones who are unlocking and and and examining that data.

Um, and and the biggest thing is that uh to help serve our our victims because a lot of times when a victim comes in with a phone uh with a consent search, it lets us do it a little bit more timely than sending out to a lab.

Uh, people rely on their phone.

So usually when we have these types of investigations, we're making a special appointment for them, we're trying to make arrangements where they can come in, we're giving them a time frame.

We're gonna say, you know, we'll have your phone and we'll be able to download out depending on the amount of data on the phone.

It could take uh a couple of hours, make sure that we have a way to communicate with them, not just our victims too, but many times our suspects.

Uh, we're trying to work with them, uh, especially if we're trying to rule out suspects uh who may be in it, you know, claiming innocence and want us to look at their phones in order to rule them out as a potential suspect.

We're also trying to work with them uh on timelines because people rely on their phones, they're very important.

Um, and another big reason, especially with the amount of uh sexual assaults and uh child cases that we investigate, it it limits having gray key in-house in the Somerville Police Department, limits the amount of people who are reviewing the sensitive data, um, and it protects their privacy.

Uh when somebody examines your phone, it can be a very intrusive thing.

So we want to have the least amount of people looking at that device as possible, um, which is another good reason to keep that, keep our capability of gray house in the Somerville police department.

And you know, the quicker that we work to get this data in these cases, especially with homicides, uh sexual assaults, things.

Um lot of times people are trying to conceal their data, they're trying to delete their data.

Um, this just expedites the process.

Uh, an example of of where we use gray key successfully in a case to expedite uh an investigation.

Uh, we had an investigation last year that involved trafficking a minor.

Detective were able to seize uh the phone of one of the suspects and do a forensic examination.

Um, the examination revealed text messages and conversations between the suspect and a accomplice indicating that the two are engaged in a joint enterprise to traffic the teenage victim for commercial sex.

Messages also contained discussions of using violence to control the victim.

These include statements such as um, you know, that they intended to beat the victim if she didn't comply.

There's also a reference to dropping her in the quarry if they couldn't comply, which we interpreted to mean um, you know, possibly committing a homicide on on this victim.

The digital evidence that we recover from that phone um allowed us to quickly investigate the accomplice in this crime.

Uh, we were able to get an arrest warrant, locate the second suspect, and arrest them quickly before any more harm could be done.

Um access to the device, the fact that we had gray key and all this allowed us to um rapidly recover these communications and you know, expedited an investigation that allowed us to intervene quickly, involving a case that was an exploitation of a minor.

Uh another case that you may have actually seen in the news last year.

We had an investigation where a um a victim was assaulted by an Uber driver.

Identify and arrest the suspect uh during the initial stages of the investigation.

We're also able to um get that suspect's uh tablet and his cell phone um using gray key, we're able to brute force force his password.

Uh also while using a consent search of the uh the survivor's phone in this case, um, we're able to uh cooperate a lot of the information that we received, including location data, uh and other key details of the investigation.

Um the case is still moving forward, but um that all happened in-house uh in the Somerville Police Department using Grey Key as a tool to unlock and examine those phones.

Um one other minor consideration as as we go forward, you know, and technology is becoming more and more prevalent, especially with AI.

Um we're seeing a lot of these cases now, and it could be uh um the new wave of crime where AI is being used to exploit elderly, um, to exploit money out of different people.

Um having great key in these uh forensics tools really helps us uh to validate and that identify media origination.

Making sure, you know, so we can tell whether it's it's something that was created fictitiously with AI or or if it's a real uh person on the other end of those conversations.

Thank you, Detective Sergeant.

Uh I see a hand from uh Director Wisdom and Chief Benford.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

Um, just in closing, uh on the back of the uh detective sergeant's uh comments.

Um I uh uh thank you very much, sir.

Really appreciate that.

Um I just want to um again highlight uh some of the benefits um and really uh the extreme value uh of this tool and resource from the investigative uh standpoint, uh expedients uh in the investigation, um, particularly when we have uh you know violent crimes and individuals that have been impacted, uh, you know, the effects of crime are very uh subjective for persons.

So experience on our part um is always helpful.

Um this tool does um allow us to do that.

Um I would also uh mention again, uh, as the detective sergeant mentioned earlier, uh search warrants, uh they are signed off by a jurist uh at the court, so probable cause uh has been established.

Um with any search warrant, they determine the scope and intensity.

So it's never a fish expedition.

We're able to go in and search uh for and where uh uh is already authorized and supported uh through the search warrant.

Uh and then lastly, uh from a financial implication standpoint, again, uh this resource comes to us by way of uh grant funds uh and minimizes the impact on uh limited uh city operating funds and allows us to maintain uh this critical service and resource without further exacerbating the city budget.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief.

Um before I I move and call on counselors, you know, I this is a two-part item in that there are these these two different software items.

There's gray key and then there's also blue voice.

Um is there anything that um that anyone from the police department wants to say in terms of comment on Blue Voice.

Uh Mr.

Chair, thank you.

Uh and through you, uh yes, thank you very much uh for that.

Um I do want to mention uh just a couple of things.

Um as I mentioned earlier, uh there were several uh written questions uh that was submitted uh by Council Link uh for which we provided a written response uh too through IGA.

Um it really is subject matter or proprietary responses, uh for which we are not uh the subject matter experts in this space.

We are really laypersons and in-uses of the technology.

So I just want to highlight that.

Uh I also want to mention uh that uh when we talk about exigence circumstances as it relates uh as it relates to uh gray key.

That was a question that came uh from counselor Hart.

Uh the detective sergeant uh spoke to that um around uh, you know, with the exception of consent with the exception of a search warrant.

The only time that we would go into that phone um is would uh would be uh when there is an exit and circumstance uh that presents itself.

Um specifically as it relates to Blue Voice.

Um I want to again uh reiterate uh for which I know director uh wisdom uh testified to uh in the past uh is that this is a tool um and a resource that is an on-demand uh tool and resource for officers in the field.

Um it does not openly search the internet, it only uses the tool and the technology to search data that we input into it.

Um and we intend to use that uh by inputting uh policies and procedures, uh city ordinances uh and state law.

Uh we do not intend to use the technology uh for report writing, uh, nor do uh would we share uh any uh data through that platform.

uh in the past uh is that this is a tool um and a resource that is an on-demand uh tool and resource for officers in the field um it does not openly search the internet it only uses the tool and the technology to search data that we input into it um and we intend to use that uh by inputting uh policies and procedures uh city ordinances uh and state law uh we do not intend to use the technology uh for report writing uh nor do uh would we share uh any uh data through that platform we don't collect any data that is a tool and a resource that is very specific and germane for the officer in the field uh as it relates to uh blue voice thank you chief benford i see a hand from counselor link yes thank you chair um through you uh so uh first of all um uh uh through your chip through the chair uh thank you chief benford for uh getting me all of these these answers um the and i think you just you maybe answered um uh one of my my kind of follow on questions it sounds so it sounds like but just to confirm so there's there's um there's no plan to use like the the there's uh on the website on the the landing pages a um uh a feature for like writing reports um and the the plan is not to use that so we're not entering in any any um personal identifying information of any kind uh from our our from anyone who might be interacting with the police that is correct we will not be using it uh in that way thank you uh and then the the my last question is um well while uh i understand that we're gonna uh it's gonna be the what what they're calling a closed uh I think what are they calling it closed loop so it's not going out to the internet um it's only using the the source documents that were providing it um the the the question the the answer that I received did um mention that there was two different there was two variations of that um and there was one that was um option that when essentially you being used as a um like a high powered search engine essentially right um through the municipal documents and the state documents um and that it would only then cite the documents themselves and not um uh and not try to summarize them um which is where the my concerns about hallucinations come in um so uh are we planning on using it in uh to uh to summarize or are we planning on using it just to cite the actual uh you know laws that may be applicable from the search thank you very much for the question uh and through the chair the expectation is that this tool uh will provide um an on-demand uh resource for the officer in the field and direct him her uh him her or they uh to the specific areas in the statute that are articulated in responding to the questions that the officer has um uh you know what I would say about AI um I think this is a healthy discussion I think you raised some really valid points around having an open and candid conversation um you know what we're finding in the discipline is that we're not gonna run well we're not gonna outrun AI um I think several years ago uh you know there was there was intimidation about it um and a lack of understanding in terms of how it may impact us and what we're quickly finding is is the industry has pivoted and all of our tools and resources are being built out this way.

It does not undermine that we still have to send officers to training.

It does not undermine that we still expect that officers are going to have a comprehensive understanding of the law while also recognizing that we can't be everything um and remember everything at all times.

So we're hoping that this is a real time tool that will help orient the officer uh to that uh to that specific uh law ordinance or rule uh and still rely on the officer to make the appropriate judgment call based on real world uh facts and circumstances thank you chief that was uh yeah that I think that um answers um all of my concerns as long as yeah as long as we're not using it to actually um analyze the law then then I I'm much more comfortable with what this is uh thank you thank you counselor Link Counselor Street Thank you Mr.

Chair I'm I'm fine going behind counselor cart if um uh if if she's fine with that too sure counselor heard sure I just wanted to say uh thank you through you chair uh thank you to Chief Benford and um Detective Sergeant Schneider um for very thoroughly answering the questions that I have posed as well so thank you thank you counselor counselor stretch thank you Mr.

Chair um I I appreciate the conversation on this um and my colleagues uh questions on this as well and I read up researched all the things and I also want to uh through you Mr.

I appreciate the details of this and how um how it can be uh these programs can be helpful in um in cases with sexual assault with child rape or child exploitation with human trafficking um and how difficult these cases are are hard to um well we know with with cases of of rape and sexual assault that very few cases are are convictable um and and that's so the the conversation and how how um everything moves so fast or just uh how technology needs and et cetera um can be implemented um is is uh a dialogue and an interesting conversation.

So I appreciate this.

And um as this is the second time we're discussing this in committee, and there's there's a lot of agenda items and uh to discuss.

I am moving uh for a vote, uh move to approve offer a vote, whatever you wish, Mr.

Chair Uh, thank you, Counselor Streso.

Um the the read that I'm getting from the committee is that we are comfortable with approving this item.

If that's not the case, okay.

Thank you.

Then uh with appreciation, as my my colleagues uh said, for um for the extra explanations and answers to questions about both of these pieces of software.

This is this is new territory for every municipality.

Um there's a limit to how sure we can be about how any AI related technology works.

Uh so I uh I appreciate and and I am counting on the police department as you navigate the the Blue Voice tool in particular um to uh to be keeping our city's values in mind and um and being on the lookout for mismatches between what this AI company says they're doing with data and any signs that that that's not quite what they're doing.

Counselor Link.

Thank you, Chair.

Um I'd I'd love to uh I uh I can do this after the meeting here, um, but I'd love to share out the um the answers I got um for for these my questions because I think that they're uh it makes it pretty clear that um that this is a this particular AI is is fairly limited.

I do think that as a city we need to have uh um you know some some guardrails around AI in general um and some use policies, but um this particular case.

Um I I would welcome that uh you know with a balance of of level of depth and time.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm not doing that.

I it's sure I'm not suggesting that we uh we pause for anything for this.

I'm just saying I I would love to make it uh accessible to everyone.

So I'll find ways to share it.

Thanks.

Thank you so much, Counselor Lies and Radasi.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I would just uh through you to Counselor Link, um, double check with the law department around the parameters for that.

Thank you, liaison.

Um this item, seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

Okay, item eight, mayor's request ID 25-0849 requesting approval to accept and expend a 127,000 dollar grant with no new match required from the Boston Office of Emergency Management to the police department for a special response team equipment and training.

Chief Benford and Director Wisdom.

Could you please tell us about this grant?

Uh thank you very much, uh Mr.

Chair, greatly appreciate the opportunity.

Again, I want to um acknowledge all of our colleagues for the work that had been previously done um uh in furtherance of this discussion.

Uh this money again comes to us by way of uh the UASC program.

Uh it supports uh training and equipment of our special response team.

Uh this team is an extremely important asset tool and resource uh that we have available in our community again um for uh use during our most troubling um and most dangerous uh instances that come up in the city.

Um we use this team uh to help us and uh proactively um around preparation uh for the manora lighting um and the Christmas tree lighting, uh different rallies uh that have occurred um around the city.

Um uh and so we use that resource uh to help us have uh situational awareness as well as uh maintain a security posture should we have bad actor actors that look to disrupt uh the process uh for folks uh and persons to be had and to be present uh during debate.

Uh these funds and resources um uh help to offset uh backfill and all the time for training costs uh so that uh individual persons that uh consummate our team uh maintains their proficiency uh and competence uh in the skill set.

It also helps the city uh and the department offset the investment in extremely expensive equipment uh that's used like shields, uh like helmets, uh like technology uh communication uh and interoperability uh with our radio systems, all of which are extremely costly, as well as when we have individual persons that cycle in and out of the unit, uh, we often have to uh uh equip them uh from head to toe uh with the proper equipment.

Um, and regrettably, because we all have different body types, um 90%, 99% of that equipment is not interchangeable.

So these tools are all procured uh with this resource.

They're extremely helpful.

We uh we rely on them um every day.

We rely on them for how we go about uh ensuring uh safety and security uh for our city, and as I've said, uh being able to respond to those threats uh when they do happen.

The performance period of this grant uh is a three-year period.

Uh these funds are being awarded uh with the UASC year uh F by 24.

Uh so we've already uh a year has already gone by.

Um I highlight that because these funds are not funded annually uh in the sense that this 127,000 is available for one calendar year.

It's only over the three-year performance period.

So when you break that down, uh, you know, the safe assumption is to think of it through uh, you know, as thirds over the performance period of three years of the grant.

Thank you, Chief Benford.

Um are there any members of the committee uh or uh you know, Detective Sergeant, any other guests who have comment on this.

Um I just wanted to share that uh you know, a bit of information that I was able to find reading the cover letter on this item.

Uh I did want to note that it makes reference to the obligation for the city of Somerville to adhere to requirements in the state of Massachusetts uh project plan agreement with Uasi for fiscal year 2024.

Um I was able to make a uh public records request to the City of Boston to sorry to the Boston Office of Emergency Management and get a copy of that just to be able to look at the section that's being referenced uh by by my read.

Uh all of the items there were in line with my expectations for what that's worth to others.

Uh one question that I had for you, Chief Benford.

Um it sounds like the equipment that you're talking about is a mix of uh some which is fairly routine and some which is um more in the kind of armored direction of you know a shields, for example.

Uh and you know, I I know there's been concern raised uh in many different cities about the tendency for uh this more hardened equipment to lend itself to military-like mindsets in even the most well-intentioned officers.

Uh one question I have for you is is that a concern that that you and and your department uh are aware of, and and what steps do you take to counteract that?

Uh thank you very much, Mr.

Chair, for the question.

Um I greatly appreciate that opportunity.

Um the officers here in SPD is uh, you know, we're not faking our value set here.

Um it's very clear in the city.

Um, and every officer uh takes uh the job with SPD, understanding that we are uh a department that's accountable uh to the community, and we police according to those to those thresholds.

With that said, there are a couple of things uh that we won't compromise on, and that's officer safety, right?

Because there's a direct link between officer safety and community safety.

Um, and we can and will balance both.

And when we talk about uh you know militarized responses, we take a measured response uh to everything.

When we think about uh our special operations, um, we do it very deliberate.

So as an example, uh, when we plan for our major events, we don't put officers out in tactical gear on the front line.

Those officers are available as an asset offline out of sight, if in the worst case scenario uh we need them.

So that's one example in terms of how we mitigate them.

When we start to talk about uh officer safety, when we start to talk with special operations in terms of serving search warrants or uh attempting to take dangerous violent felons uh into uh into custody, we always balance, try to balance uh the impacts that it has on the community, the time that we're executed.

In fact, in the state of Massachusetts, uh we have uh specific times that are articulated by the court uh for when warrants cannot be executed.

And if we do step outside or need to go um outside those parameters of a night uh nighttime warrant, which are typically the exclusions, we have to get very specific um uh permission from the court um and though those uh uh tenants that are uh consistent with the authorization of the search warrant.

When we do those things, we always do it uh on balance.

Um we use those teams to safely enter a home or to safely enter a location so as to minimize the impact or the possibility uh of danger uh again to the community uh and or the officers.

Umce we are done uh with that initial phase of the operation, those officers are often removed from the uh from the scene um and other assets, tools and partners within the operation uh take over.

So there's often not a long-standing uh presence of those officers on scene.

I do want to be fair, uh, in the discussion when we talk about community safety and officer safety.

Um when we're entering a home and we know that we're trying to take a suspect into custody that has a violent firearms history, uh, that has a history of consistent um uh activity with firearms.

We do take uh into account the highest level of security posture that we can uh in going into that, but we always start with how do we maximize and how do we go about this operation while prioritizing both community safety and officer safety.

We do that with a high level of deconfliction.

There are multiple stages that occur as part of that process.

And it also uh we go uh as we go through the approval process, it includes uh seeing executive level managers within the department to ensure that we have multiple eyes uh on it, most importantly to ensure that uh the uh the the dynamics of the value set of our community as well as the spirit of our rules are being uh taken into account from decision makers and policy makers within the department.

Thank you, Chief.

Uh one quick note I wanted to also uh add is that among the other equipment that uh that is listed in in your letter about this, uh Chief Benford, um, are the uh poll cameras, the two poll cameras, and I wanted to point out to everyone that there is a surveillance technology impact report about those cameras that's available uh on the in code uh website of the city of Somerville.

Um as well as referring to a previous item, there is a surveillance technology impact report available for the gray key software.

Um I believe the most recent year for that one is uh 2023.

Um in terms of an independent report.

Thank you.

Uh counselors on the committee, are there any other comments on this item?

Okay, seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

Um that brings us to the end of this series of police department related grants.

Um liaison Radasi, could I just check in with you about if you feel like the information um regarding the the email chain is in a position to share now?

Um because we could also go ahead with the the next item instead of returning to this previous item.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yes, I sent the email.

Um as I noted in the email, I'd appreciate some extra time to have a law review my redaction because I am not a lawyer, so I'm not sure I did it correctly.

Um, but the content contents of the email um should be in your inboxes.

Thanks.

I I have to say I don't seem to be seeing it.

Um okay, sorry, it's it's in this this other chain um handouts for the finance committee meeting.

Thank you.

I do see it.

Um why don't we return to that item, Clerk, uh to item four uh ID 26-0271.

Um and maybe we could begin by just giving everyone three minutes to to read this email and review it, if that's okay.

Uh thank you all.

Uh please give us just a few minutes.

Okay, if everyone is ready to resume um discussion on this item.

Um members of the council are there further thoughts.

Call for a vote, please, Mr.

Chair.

If there's no other uh comments here, um I'm inclined to call for uh a vote on recommendation for approval for this item, unless anyone wants to make a case otherwise.

Okay, clerk, uh could you please uh do a roll call vote on recommendation uh for approval for this item?

Yes.

So this is um recommending approval on item number 26-0271.

Counselor Link.

No.

Councillor Strozo, yes.

Counselor Hart.

Yes.

Counselor Scott, Chair Wheeler.

Yes.

All right, with three votes in favor, this does pass.

Thank you, Clerk.

Okay.

Um that concludes the items related to public safety.

Um I appreciate the um all of the questions and answers and the uh the helpful testimony of of our detective sergeant as well.

Um thank you all and um have a good night.

Thank you very much.

We appreciate you all.

Appreciate you understanding and the opportunity.

Thank you.

Have a good night.

And we will move on to item seven.

Officers communication ID 26-0201, the director of economic development conveying the potential use of an urban center housing tax increment financing tool, uh TTIF, to incentivize housing production.

And we have uh the very patient director of economic development, Rachel Ned Kearney.

Director Ned Kearney, could you please speak to this communication?

Yes, good evening, everyone.

I want to introduce as well.

Um Katie Wees, uh, who is our one of our economic development planners and is going to be presenting with me on this topic.

Uh Clerk, just to double check, can she share her screen?

Um I think we are seeing it now.

Uh so it's working.

And welcome, Katie Wees.

Okay.

And mine, I'm still seeing the view is still showing the um agenda.

There should be tabs at the top that you can toggle.

Yeah.

Oh that is new.

Now I can see that.

Okay.

Very cool.

Um so good evening, everyone.

We are here tonight to go ahead or the next one.

Um talk about the urban center housing tax increment financing program.

Um, it is a very, very long uh name and it has been christened the UCTIF, not by us, but by the folks over at uh housing and level communities.

Um so the octave program is a state program.

Um and it is a program that is designed to assist communities with incentivizing housing.

It is a tax increment financing program, which we'll talk a little bit about as a general concept.

Um, but it has a very specific purpose, and that is to look at adding housing in otherwise commercial areas.

Um we are really looking at all tools to finance the new housing production here in the city of Somerville.

And we have been for a while.

What is interesting about Octave is that it is a tool that is fully within the city's control after you get approval from the state to have a zone.

So it's a it gives us a lot of flexibility.

And it can make a real difference in some of these projects that are stuck.

Wanted to just share a graphic we've used before just that describes what tax improvement financing means, especially for anybody who might be listening at home.

And for our counselors who are who are newer, this is the same graphic that we used in our presentations around the transmedics tax increment financing agreement.

Transmedics is a is a traditional tax increment financing agreement.

That is, that is a it's a tax agreement that is linked to commercial development.

Typically, tax increment financing requires that there be a in the state of Massachusetts tax increment financing requires that there be capital investment and job creation.

That's a traditional TIFF.

Octif is was built as a tool a dozen or so years ago to allow tax increment financing for housing.

The state has a lot of specific requirements around the program.

And communities actually have to have an approval from what's now housing and livable communities before they can utilize it.

Katie is our in-house expert on all things octave.

And so she's here to die into answering those detailed questions.

Do you want to just bring you off to speed that we've used this tool before?

Um this would be what we're looking at is establishing a broader potential use of this op as this of this option.

Um the the first time we used Octave though was was for the Winter Hill Um 299 Broadway project.

So Katie, actually, if you don't mind going back to the map for one second.

Um I think you all are familiar with the 299 Broadway project, um, the old Star Market site.

Um and what we did with the Octave zone is that we aligned our Octave zone with the urban renewal zone.

So the urban renewal area for Winter Hill includes what is the Star Market, uh, the Old Star Market and Walgreens, which have been demolished for the 299 Broadway project, but it also includes a couple of other parcels.

So anything within that pink boundary is actually where we can utilize uh octave as a tool.

So we've used it for the 299 Broadway project, but the there's also a couple other smaller sites within that that could potentially utilize Octave as well.

So the Summerville Land Trust uh is working with How to Hat for Humanity on Sewell Street, um the little parcel at the to the right-hand side, there are the two little parts that stick up.

Um, if the octave could be a tool that we utilize uh to support that project down the line if it if it needs to uh octave could also be utilized at the corner.

Um there's two parcels at the corner, which are not inactive redevelopment conversations right now, but again, octave could be a tool for anything within this pink boundary.

And that's really the sort of the reason I wanted to pause on the map is that the program is that it's I'm I just want to interrupt and with apologies, Rachel.

I'm there is the audio is slowing down for me, and I saw getting approval of a zone, an area that you want to use it, and then there's actually a second step, which is deciding which projects.

And I'm trying to state that might be uh yes, I'm I'm sorry, Director Nagardi.

Uh, I think there is an internet hiccup happening.

I'm happy through you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm happy to take over while Dr.

Ned Carney.

Thank you, planner Weeze.

Uh that would be wonderful.

Can you hear me uh still a little perfect spoty?

And can you hear me better now?

Yes.

The image is still frozen for what it's worth.

Uh but Katie Wees offered to take over the presentation if you can hear us.

So thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I will continue uh through you.

Like pull up my notes really quickly.

And it was a very it was instrumental in allowing that the financing for that project to move forward.

In the case of the 299 Broadway site, it also allowed for a higher level of affordability than otherwise would have been both able or required.

So we've been looking into this tool as a possible possibility for other areas in the city.

As was alluded to earlier, there are a few steps that go ahead before any agreement is even negotiated.

So initially we would need to define a zone and develop a plan that identifies our goals for this tool in the city, and then any future project would need to come and negotiate specific terms on a per project basis.

After it goes through a local approval process and goes to the council for a vote of approval, it would then go back to HLC housing and livable communities for final approval.

Just a reminder, which I think we we noted a bit earlier, but the qualifications for the zone itself, it must be primarily commercial.

And the projects within that zone must be primarily to deliver housing.

So this isn't a tool to build new commercial properties.

It is primarily intended to deliver new housing.

The zone also must meet some specific uh conditions.

So one of the following, um, such as uh high commercial vacancy rate, uh higher unemployment rates, or others um more specifically defined in the program requirements.

We've been looking initially at uh the areas in assembly, some areas within assembly square and portions of East Somerville, primarily along the interstate highway, where there are some um housing projects that have been stalled that could move forward if they were to um if if they had if they had the ability to move forward.

So um a lot of the the area of the zone that we've been looking at so far is underutilized there, it's characterized by um almost 50% surface parking or vacant lots.

And as I mentioned previously, there are there are projects that are underway that uh could move forward with with the help of a tool but are currently stalled.

So just to um to wrap up.

Um, I'm sorry, I didn't even bring up any project that goes through um that that negotiates an UCTIF has to meet a specific affordability threshold, whether that's one of the ones um listed or an existing inclusionary zoning ordinance.

So again, just today's presentation was to familiarize the council with this tool as an opportunity for the future, and we've done some research into potential areas that could that we would bring back in the future to the council for um review, but today was was to bring it um to to bring some information about a potential tool.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, uh planner Wees.

Uh just before we move on to questions, I wanted to do a little check about uh whether we have director Nodcarney uh fully able to hear and participate in the questions.

Yes, um, after it was all fine for the entire last set of presentations and then I got kicked out, but back.

Okay, glad to have you back.

Uh Counselor Stresso.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay.

Uh first as I I think I may have printed the first through you, Mr.

Chair, to our uh economic development uh masters.

Um masters of economic development.

Um so I think I printed out the first version.

What's the difference in uh slides?

That is not my question, but just so I can say consistent on on um what I'm doing, uh what was omitted or included.

I think I think we added the map.

I don't think the other slides really changed.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

So with that, uh if we can start, I have about three questions.

First, when this was when when a um uh when you hired a consultant last year and presented this to the council, which by the way was a different council than this council, there are new members.

Um I said that I was not comfortable getting deep on this topic without hearing from the Office of Housing Stability and the Housing Division.

I still um want to not get into any serious conversation on any amendments to AMIs without their feedback, which is crucial.

Um so I I just want to put that out there.

Um second, when we talk about, I'll start with page six, the project qualifications.

If that's the same pages that you have in the second one, we're talking if it's project qualifications.

We can jump to it's a different number, but we'll jump to that slide.

Yeah, cool.

Um, thank you.

Uh it says uh uh second bullet point unit mix must satisfy a minimum affordability threshold.

So I see that 15% affordable to households at or below 80% of AMI, and then 25% affordable to households at or below 110 AMI.

Now, for anyone that uh isn't too deep on or you know isn't well versed on EMI and it gets really confusing real fast.

Um that's market rate, correct?

110%.

That's pretty much that's like 110, like the that's close to market rate.

So 110% it's about 83 or the or 118.

So I know in the past there has been consistent problems filling apartments and units with 100% AMI or 110% AMI because with the qualifications being it's essentially market rate.

Why would tenants want to be in a unit that is essentially market rate and go through all the complexities of the recertification process every single year for something they can just not have to do with market rate?

So can you expand on that, please?

Sure.

So these actually are not our standards, these are the states.

Um when we did the 299 project, uh, we were following the um again, it's it's the you have to meet a minimum of one of these three criteria.

So the minimum criteria that we used at the time with 299 probably was a minimum it needed to meet our inclusionary zoning uh standard for the whole the project as a whole.

Um, the state has built this tool to incentivize across again the entire state.

It's been utilized in Worcester, Lowell, and a few other locations.

In some municipalities, that 110% is the um target level that they're trying to reach.

They're looking at it more from a workforce housing perspective.

Um whereas in our in summerville we have tended to focus more on the affordable housing market, um, exactly for the reasons that Councillor Scho you mentioned uh that the 110 is not meaning is not um sorry, I'm no need to repeat what you were saying before.

So we would expect that we would be looking at the inclusion area, but again, this is just it's the minimum criteria that the state is setting.

Um it is again something that we would be looking at on a project by project basis, not as the zone itself.

Thank you.

And and Mr.

Chair, through you on that, if they are actually built with the state's qualifications of 110 or even 100% AMI, which is essentially market rate, and they're only designated as market rate.

I'm sorry, only designated as uh housing that you have to qualify at 100 or 110%, then what happens when these units are not able to be filled.

Now, back in the day, for anybody who wasn't like fighting for affordable housing in 2012 and 2014 and 15 here, um typically, yeah, that that was like the model, right?

Like the the earlier starts of the affordable housing conversation was eight hundred and ten and a hundred percent AMI was included in that, enveloped in that for to be designated as work house uh workforce development like housing, and that was where we started, and then fast forward five, six years, we have a bunch of vacant units that we can't fill because they're lodged in this designation that isn't getting utilized because everyone can just go on market and not have to, and we're still stalled on that.

So my concerns are that, and if that is that being modeled as a affordable housing unit when it's technically like, yeah, sure, income restricted, but not technically affordable housing because it's still kind of market rate.

I know that's a lot at the same time.

Please forgive me.

I'm happy to back up if necessary, Director, Mr.

Chairman.

Through the chair.

So UCTIF is an incentive program, right?

We are we are incentivizing the production of housing through our tax dollars, right?

That's that's the essential point of what this looks like.

Um I think the question that I I think we can we should put some thought to as we develop our our next conversation with you all is what's the recourse if they aren't meeting their affordability, right?

If they are not filling the units that they designated, what what recourse do we have and what do we want, do we want that to look differently because we have um dollars in the game, right?

We're we're committed to the product in a different way.

Uh 299 is it's a substantially higher level of affordability than a typical project, right?

And so it's we're let there's a little bit less worry about meeting these minimums, but I think that's a really good question, counselor, of you know, what recourse are we building into our agreement?

Um when we go forward as at the next stage with an UCTIF map that we would be bringing to you all again.

The city council actually has to approve all of this before it gets goes to the state for approval.

Um is that we would be um approving a few different things.

We'd be approving a zone, what's the area in which we would apply this?

We would be approving a plan, which is a narrative to describe what we're trying to achieve.

And then the third thing is a form of agreement, which is the baseline dot legal agreement that we'd be looking at when we actually then negotiate with a project.

In that form of agreement is where I would say we would want to look at language around that recourse question.

Um, Mr.

Chair, through you, if I may, to director.

Um, but who would make that decision?

Would that be a decision that was completely built and made by economic development?

And so the council has no role in that through the chair.

No, this is we changed the form of agreement um under the Winter Hill Urban Renewal Plan with counselor council feedback.

Um, and that's fully what we would expect here as well.

Um I also would anticipate that this would be something that would be being tracked with the housing division.

Again, the housing division already does annual recertifications um to review you know that that they're in compliance with the inclusionary requirements.

Um I'm sorry, Counselor Strauss.

I'm gonna I'm gonna cycle back around if that's okay.

Nope, got you, got you.

Um yeah.

Uh there's there's much more to talk about.

Uh counselor Link.

Thank you, Chair.

Um two questions.

I think I can get them all both pretty quickly.

Um so the the first one actually just kind of to pull in the same thread that um counselor Stressow was was pulling on, um, which is just uh uh some clarification.

So it's we must satisfy so the project must satisfy a minimum of one of the following.

Um who decides which of those minimums it is?

Uh um yeah.

Katie, help me remember this.

I think it's we said that in our plan um and form of agreement, or is it negotiated by project?

It's negotiated by project.

Okay, because uh I mean I it's just I guess I would call uh attention to the fact that these are um the first two minimums are less than what we would normally be requiring.

Um then uh so my my second question um is oh my goodness, I just lost it.

Um, is how are we balancing um or is there an uh eye towards balancing this uh you know incentive to build or incentive to actually uh you know, if this tool, if uh I I worry that if developers see all this tools used uh in this project, and if I just hold out in land bank for just a little while longer, maybe they'll cycle back to me and give me a little bit of a of a bonus.

Um so how are we balancing that that kind of uh incentive versus maybe actually deincentivizing um people to build?

I'm just writing that one down.

I think that's something we could also look at in the in this form of agreement um as well and in the plan.

The plan is really to lay out our intentions, right?

What do we what kinds of projects do we want to incentivize?

What are our goals here?

Um and it gives us then the staff who are going to be doing the negotiating and then also city council who reviews the actual agreement um the background, right?

Because this could be a few years between when we approve this plan and zone and when we actually negotiated that agreement.

So I think that we could be looking at that um as well.

Around, you know, is there a expiration date, right?

Does our form of agreement include a you know, this is here if you build within the next 24 months?

Does our form of agreement include a, you know, this is here if you build within the next 24 months, you know, you have to pull a building form within X months from the date that you were approved for the TIFF in order to make sure that it's um live.

When we did with the sorry, just to interrupt that because that's not quite what I'm asking.

Um I'm just wondering how it works.

Uh I worried that this is telegraphing to developers that they could wait and maybe we would offer them a bone, right?

Um, and so that they would maybe stall their projects.

Um, maybe they see that it's like the math isn't great, and if they wait, maybe and and uh ask uh and uh just where they would have developed otherwise, they might not because they they see that there's there's this potential thing to grab.

So how are we how are we telegraphing to to developers that like you know, this is not for you.

Yeah, um, I think what we've been looking at is you know, we've been trying to really target our looking at our analysis of where this tool could be applicable to to a couple things.

One is where is their commercial vacancy right now?

Um that's criteria one that we have to look.

We need to look at what is our our definition of vacancy that we're we're targeting.

Um commercial vacancy is the one that we've been looking at with assembly.

Um with the other thing that we've been looking at is where do we have products that have stalled for for a long time already, right?

Products that are already permitted, um, ready to go, and yet because of the downturn in the market, we just are not seeing any movement on them.

Um we know that it's it's just the numbers are not penciling right now.

So the this is really a sort of a tool that fits in that gap, but it does not expire.

So that is a question that we can look at of you know how do we um we might want to set ourselves our own sort of expiration timeline on it kind of thing.

Thank you very much for your answers.

Thank you.

Um Director Nat Kearney, I I have a few follow-up questions of my own on these questions.

So one thing I didn't quite understand is that the zone must be commercial, but the project must be residential.

I feel like I'm missing a step.

Yeah.

Um so what the state, the reason this exists, right, is the as a program.

Again, this was developed more than a dozen years ago and it's a statewide program.

What the target locations are are sort of the uh traditionally like a downtown district that has no housing.

It doesn't, it has no housing, jobs housing balance, right?

We talk a lot about that in summer vision.

We're looking for jobs housing balance.

Um, and so if you think about, you know, uh a neighborhood that has uh like and I would say Winter Hill is a pretty classic example of what they were trying to accomplish, right?

You have a low slung single-story retail district, adding housing above retail, you know, is what we're is uh is a is a goal, right?

That's an area that they're trying to fill in, get those feet on the street, have that built-in population to serve the the retailers.

That is the sort of the infill housing that they're trying to accomplish through Octave.

Assembly actually is that same classic story at a different scale.

We've been trying to figure out how to launch how more housing in assembly.

We have some, um, but a lot more potential for housing.

The assembly square neighborhood plan calls for a lot more housing than we see today.

Um we do have a vacancy challenge in assembly square as well.

And so that's that's what they're trying to achieve is thinking about those locations where you've got concentration of retail where where could there be infill above um assembly?

Similar story um higher density.

Thanks.

I I still feel a little confused because it seems to me as though there are also entirely residential areas where the same, the same exact arguments hold, but but um I'm also understanding that this is a in some ways a state program.

And that that's another piece that I was a little confused about.

Is there state money that's involved with this program?

That so would would we, in the absence of state legislation on this, would we be able to waive different taxes in order to encourage development?

Or is it something where we wouldn't be able to do it on this kind of case-by-case basis, but for this enabling legislation on the state level.

I believe, Chair, your your second answer is the is the one that is my understanding of it.

So tax agreement financing in general had been um tightly held by the state.

The state used to require that every tax increment financing agreement project, every single project commercial or not, had to be approved individually by um by state by a state agency.

So when it was sorry, the acronyms have changed as the structure has changed, but it used to be that the it was one um housing level communities and economic development split apart.

Octif went with the housing level community side and regular tips went with the economic development side.

It used to be even for something like transmedics, we would have had to have a state approval, a state approval after a local approval.

They've taken away the state approval requirement for the commercial projects, but the state enabling legislation still defines what we can do in terms of a tax increment financing agreement with a commercial entity.

Octave is the same basic setup on the housing side.

Thanks.

And so the state still has all those they didn't the state did not get rid of the state.

So in that context, that these minimums that some of these are a bit paltry, let's say, that's okay because if we want Somerville to have higher standards, we can.

Okay, thanks.

That helps me with the context.

Counselor Strozo.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm happy to be uh in the back if uh counselors who haven't spoke uh wish to, and then I can take round two.

I think at the moment you're the only one.

Right on.

Take it away.

Thanks to be great to be back in the queue.

Yeah.

Um uh thank you very much.

Um and I I uh through you, Mr.

Chair to Counselor Link.

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up about uh just who is this for?

Yeah, this is very much for major developers.

So um this this is this is what it's looking like.

Um with that, uh Mr.

Chair, through you to uh uh director Nat Carney.

Um I am I'm really stuck on the numbers, and I I get that it's this is a state uh tool, and that's that's it.

I appreciate that elaboration, but we know that that like trying to jump start most or jump start in a community that's trying to jump start is way different than where we are here today in 2026 in Somerville.

Um we yeah, it's it's definitely not apples to apples.

And my concern is is the numbers of the shifting of now 50, like I'm page my page six on project qualific uh qualifications, where meeting those three bullet points of 15% affordable to household at or below 80%.

So like uh a lowered, definitely lower than 20% of um of more of the lower income uh qualifications, while we have an increase of that of the either market rate or middle uh grade or definitely higher.

And I don't know that uh here in Somerville, that's a different kind of qualification.

And so essentially, are we incentivizing developers, major to developers to just build them as luxury units that technically can be reserved as affordable housing on the on the on the uh higher end of the of the percentage AMI?

So we are we saying that we can do that and then well, but actually it's I don't know.

I I have my this is a this is that page I'm not sure how that isn't going to negatively impact for residents in our city.

So um like I I don't know if that's a statement or a question.

I I don't know, but those are my immediate impressions and my sticking point on that as well.

So director, feel free to thank you.

If I do Mr.

Chair, the um think about this way this is this is these are the standards for who can who we can begin negotiating with.

We don't have to negotiate with anybody, right?

The octave is an is an opera, it's an option.

Uh it's not a um we don't have to say this.

It's this is all discretionary, right?

And it's in every agreement with to uh approve a tax and commitment financing agreement for any single project would have to come back to the council.

The these standards are really saying at a statewide level, if you want to even be in the game of a pl of using this tool, you're gonna have to have a project that meets these minimum standards.

In Somerville, our minimum standard is you have to get approval through our zoning ordinance, and our zoning ordinance has a higher level of affordability required.

So our standard zoning approval, we already meet that qualification across the board.

So this is really thinking about then how could we can we use do we want to use this tool to incentivize the production of housing faster than the rest of the market?

Do we want to use this tool to incentivize um a greater degree of affordability?

Do we want to um incentivize something a little bit more unique about a project, which is what 299 was, right?

Like there, that's those are the questions that we can use Octave to try and answer.

Part of the reason that we're here thinking about this today is that the market is not producing housing right now.

There's not our pipeline is is pretty much zero when it comes to large scale projects.

So the question on the table around Octave for us has been is this something that we keep we've been seeing it as maybe this is something we should consider really diving deep into because we do want to see more housing.

We do want to see projects launched that have been stalled already for two to seven years.

Um can we beat the market and continue to build on our pipeline goals um faster by um bringing our tax dollars to bear.

Thank you, Director Link.

I've been promoted.

Sorry, Counselor Link.

What department am I a director?

Uh no, sorry.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, so uh just so I can uh I just what I've heard, I just want to make sure I don't I'm not looking at this with roasting glasses.

So this is there's the potential that we could have um that we could be requiring we could incentivize projects that are deeply affordable um with this uh as opposed to 10 uh as opposed to uh 110 or 80 percent um and not yeah, and it's and it's up to us, not up to the there's no state requirement.

Okay.

Thank you.

Counselor Streso.

Thank you.

To elaborate, uh Mr.

Chair through you to uh I don't know whomever, uh Counselor Link or Director Nard Nardconi.

Uh affordable to whom the the developer, because 80% is not that affordable.

Like that's not that's not let's be very clear here.

So you're saying uh you're agreeing, Director, uh Mr.

Chair through you to you're agreeing to affordable project affordable for the developer, correct?

We can set our standard for what we think affordability means as long as it's more affordable than one of those metrics.

For the developer, right?

No, no, for the our housing stock, it has to be at least 15% of units targeting 80% AMI, or at least 25% at that 110% level, or another combination if we have an existing inclusionary housing ordinance, which we do.

Okay, but to clear, pardon me, through director, the Mr.

Director.

15% okay, 20% is our standard of affordable housing.

So the first bullet point is less than that.

That is 15% of affordable housing at or below AMI.

The sweet spot and the extreme need is even way below 80%.

The extreme need is at like 50% AMI and lower.

So 80% AMI, which is much higher, is not hitting deep affordability and the needs of our constituents that are struggling to stay in our community.

Let's be clear here.

And the second bullet point is a completely different conversation.

25% affordable to households at or below 110%.

Again, that is close to market rate.

And the people that would qualify for that can would in our experience in my experience and talking about this for many, many years on the council, is that there's not a lot of incentive to rent units at 11 100%.

I'll stop there because we could go back and forth, but I need to clarify and fact check on this because or you know, or not not fact check, I'm not in any way suggesting that you're not, but I'm saying that we need to make sure that we're explaining this as that we're we're talking about this as with that perspective that it's not just like more affordability.

The reality is we're shifting numbers, and this is a state.

I know that you did not put this forward.

This is a state program.

I understand that.

But that's that's a different qualification.

We have extreme needs for affordable housing with units that are 50% and below.

There's a devastating need for that.

Um, and and thank you.

Sorry, uh, Counselor Link, I know you have your hands on.

Thanks.

And and uh sorry, Director Kearney, just just to speak to to this conversation, because I think this is a very important thing.

Um these are low thresholds, and it could well be that Haverall or Canton or some other town besides Somerville might say, hey, we're gonna do UCTIF with you know this building that's 25% quote unquote affordable to households at or below 110% AMI.

But Somerville, if our city staff, you know, our mayor or city council don't want to do UCTIF at that low a level.

And we want to say, first of all, you've got to meet the actual existing inclusionary zoning ordinance 20%.

And in fact, for UCTIF, we might even insist on higher standards with you know, it may be that we say we want a certain amount uh at 50% of AMI, a certain amount at 80% AMI.

We we could set much more high standards, so to speak, lower AMI numbers, but higher standards.

Um, and these are just the question of if we called up the state house and we said, hey, are you okay with us using Octaf in this case?

They'd say, Well, are you clear of these pretty reasonable low thresholds?

And we'd say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they'd say, sure, go ahead.

That that's the only kind of role for these for these bullet points.

Is that right?

Correct.

I think there are think about something.

Is that we have projects that were approved at 12 and a half percent because they were approved in an earlier version of the zoning ordinance.

They cannot octave unless they come up to one of these standards.

So that would be the only case in which we would tap one of those standards in Somerville.

Otherwise, our zone inclusionary zoning ordinance is your bottom line threshold.

Thank you.

Uh Counselor Lang.

Thank you, uh, Chair.

Um, just to I think kind of maybe almost uh reiterate, just but uh just so I think it's really clear.

So it in theory, we could the city could say this uh project is uh we're gonna give you this um kind of offer.

And uh we've decided that it's gotta be you know 50%.

This is a very hypothetical, but we we've decided that 50% of the units have to be 50% affordable.

And that would be that would be the offer that we can decide that that offer is is going to be there.

And the city council would be involved in that and deciding what that offer would be.

Yes.

So if I can explain a little bit about the process.

So there's a this is a multi-step process.

And this is where Octaf becomes complicated, and why we want to bring it to you in this early format first, is that you there's a you have to write the zone in the plan, which is this is the area in which we are willing, we we are applying this tool.

It meets these criteria around um uh commercial vacancy or meets the definition of blighted.

So that is the analysis that Katie has been deep in, trying to find area areas that that could work and meet that threshold.

Then there's the plan writing itself.

What are our intentions here?

All those steps.

The plan and the zone have to be approved by the city along with the form of room, which is like the the broad brush strokes of what we're trying to what we're negotiating within.

And after that whole package gets approved, then you actually begin, we would actually then begin negotiations with an individual project.

That's not always the case.

Octaf has typically been done where you already have a very specific project and they've happened together.

But when you read the or the way the the program was originally conceived, it was conceived of as you get this area defined as saying this is the area where we want to use our tax dollars to incentivize housing production.

And after that, then we'll talk about negotiating with individual projects.

That gives us a lot of flexibility then to negotiate with those individual projects, right?

We have the flexibility to say, uh, this is where the market is in this moment in time.

Right now, our focus is on 50% AMI units.

And so, unless you're producing a 50% AMI units, we don't want to talk, right?

It gives you that flexibility to then have those individual negotiations.

And once you actually have that individual negotiated agreement, it comes back to the city council for approval of the individual approval.

So the city council has a lot of stages in which there is a check and balance on what's going on here.

Um, and nothing goes through without without those um folks.

Thank you, Director.

Any other thoughts or comments from anyone in including Director Nod Carney and Economic Developmental Economic Development Planner Wees.

Well, uh, thank you so much.

Thank you for staying all the way to the end of the meeting and for all of this background.

It's nice to know that we have this tool.

Um, and uh I'm curious to see what opportunities come up for us to deploy it.

Motion to adjourn.

All right.

Yes, but first, uh, we got a vote.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Uh that does bring us to the end of tonight's agenda.

Do I hear a motion to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn?

Motion.

Councilor Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn.

Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the role on recommending approval of these items and adjournment?

Yes.

And um, Chair Wheeler, to clarify, what would we like to do with this item number seven?

Um that was sent for discussion.

Do we have a work complete or thank you?

I I believe it would make sense to market work complete.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Uh that item is laid on the table uh for approval.

Um Mr.

Chair.

Oh Mr.

Chair.

Sorry, counselor counselor strezzo.

Sorry, is it too is it you just I was about to say it and see if this is still okay on that last agenda item.

I wanted to ask uh the director what uh because none of this is approved, and there are many conversations.

I I just quickly wanted to ask if uh clerk thinks it's still suitable for me to ask what the what they are proposing in economic development, their next steps for this uh item would be or where their next approach is or they going to be sent to another committee, etc.

Or thank you.

Clerk, is it possible to put the motion to take a roll call and adjourn on hold and to take backup item number seven?

Can we go back in time quickly?

Build a time machine.

No.

No.

Okay.

We're giving the clerk a workout tonight.

That would be at your discretion then.

So if you thank you, then I delayed.

And uh let's let's pick back up item number seven uh for this question.

That question, yeah, right.

Boom, done, right?

Um through the chair.

Yes.

So our um we are in the midst of we want to come to you all and have this conversation.

We're speaking with various stakeholders in and around assembly, um, particularly looking at you know, does this feel like the right fit?

Um, we're engaging a lot with the housing and housing stability and housing advocates uh in to get into these very questions around what feels like the right kind of signals to include in the plan.

Um, because we that's what we want to double check um before we bring something more concrete to you all um to consider.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, for indulging me and um director for that.

And um on that, uh I did not still hear um I still did not hear actual communications from the director of Office of Housing Stability and the Director of Housing within our city.

So but uh so I'm done with that, ready to move on, keep that uh just uh is approved or I'm sorry, uh if I may they are part of the team working on this.

I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director.

Mr.

Chair through you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Counselor.

Thank you, Director Nod Carney, thank you, planner Weiss.

Uh seeing no further discussion on this item, it is marked work completed.

Uh do I hear a motion to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn?

So moved.

Councilor Link moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn.

Could the clerk please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the role on recommending approval of these items and adjournment?

All right, on recommending approval of the following items and adjournments.

Item one, um ID number 26 slash 0295.

Actually, excuse me, we sorry.

Um, number two, ID number 26-0268.

Item three, ID number 26-0270.

Item five, ID number 26-060169.

Item number six, ID number 25-0849.

Counselor Link.

Yes.

Counselor Strazo, yes.

Counselor Hart.

Yes.

Counselor Scott.

Chair Wheeler.

Yes.

All right, with that, that is all votes in the affirmative.

And it is 8 42 p.m.

All right.

Thank you, Clerk.

Uh, thank you, Liaison Radassi.

Thank you, everyone who joined, and thank you, members of the committee.

Have a great night.

Night, everyone.