Hello, good evening.

I'm Emily Hart, Ward 7, City Councilor and Chair of the Licenses and Permits Committee.

Welcome to the Wednesday, March 11th meeting of the licenses and permits committee.

Pursuant to chapter two of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

We're joined tonight by Claire Clatellier.

Could you please call the role?

This is roll call, Counselor Davis.

Here.

Counselor Wheeler.

Here.

Counselor Hart.

Here.

With all counselors present, we have corn.

Great.

Thank you so much.

We have a short agenda this evening.

First up is the approval of the minutes of the licenses and permits committee meeting of February 25th, 2026.

If not, I will lay that on the table for approval at the end of the meeting.

The next item is a grant of location, ID 26-0181.

Eversource applying for a grant of location to install a total of 62 feet of conduit in Ivalu Street from Utility Pole 179 over 5 to a point of pickup at 38 Ivalu Street.

And is anybody here from Eversource to speak on this item?

Jackie Duffy is in the audience.

The last time we met, we wanted to see who was next on the polls on those double polls to be removed.

Yes, thank you.

Hold on one second.

On poll number three, RCN is next to go.

And on poll number six, Verizon is next to go.

Okay.

All right.

And what about the um were you able to ascertain the hanging wires that are in the tree?

The low Y the low Y is uh the um communications.

So we would have you would have to get in contact with the um ICN.

It's probably ICN and Comcast because when people move, they don't take the Y's down.

So that's most likely what those Y is uh.

Okay, but there's um the ones that go through the tree are actually to the utility poll.

They're they're between two poles.

Right, right.

But that's uh CN in Verizon also.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um Counselor Wheeler, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, I could use a bit of a recap on this item.

Uh you know, looking at in Legistar, I can see the the overall simple information.

But um you know, could could you please remind me, Chair or uh or Ms.

Duffy.

Um, what is the issue around the order uh that you were referencing in particular?

Yes, thank you, um Counselor Wheeler.

Um so the this is we kept this in committee.

This came up um in February.

Um, and the reason was because there are um I actually like to sponsor a resident of Ivalu Street to speak.

Um but basically there are several issues.

There's two double polls and also some hanging wires.

Um general uh the the polls are not in good shape on Ivalu Street.

Um so that was what we were hoping could be addressed in this process.

Um I would like to sponsor Chris DeWan to speak next, if he's here.

Hello, good evening.

This is uh Chris Duan of 26 Ivalu Street.

Um thank you so much for the invitation.

I'll be really brief.

Uh this is a continuation of a request I have been making of EverSource since at least January of 2020.

Um at that time, we had two mature trees on the one block street where I live.

Um and Eversource's power lines were chafing against them, sparking smoking and causing damage.

Um and in January of 2020, I raised this in a similar meeting and um received a verbal commitment that it would be taken care of.

Uh it was not, and the trees subsequently died of their injuries.

I'm not an arborist, but um they they weakened and sickened and died and had to be removed.

Um since then, I am requested several more times that these um double poles and out of alignment poles and dangling wires that Eversears take some care with their infrastructure, and it just hasn't happened.

Um so the the ask here is to once again try to find a way to cause the utility company to um maintain their equipment in a way that it doesn't create a risk where we wind up losing things like trees.

Um I'm happy to answer other questions on that, but uh, but it's it's it's a very, very long-standing issue on my street, and also I know for the rest of the city.

Uh this is a thing that comes up council after council year after year.

Um, I would appreciate any advice on what we can do to incentivize or cause the utility company to take care of these things in a timely manner.

Thank you.

Well, the Chia, could I ask Chris?

Um, what what meeting was it that you brought it up and they said they were going to take care of it?

Do you know what date that was by any chance?

Uh the memo that I wrote to then counselor to counselor Scott is dated January uh Wentiath of 2020.

And I and I spoke with you, and you told me that you would through the chair.

Um I I spoke with um Jackie Duffy and was told that it would be taken care of.

Yeah.

So I brought it back to the division.

I'll make sure it gets done.

I I mean, I'm only the middle person, but I will go back again tomorrow and I'll I'll see what I can do for you, Chris.

Thank you, Miss Duffy.

Appreciate it.

And Counselor Davis.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, so just uh uh a little historical context, as Mr.

DeWan noted, you know, the the the issue of um abandoned wires and double poles um you know is is indeed an issue that the council has been wrestling with for a very long time.

I I'm certain long before um my tenure here, which is now in its 11th year.

Um and you know, we have looked into what could be done about you know abandoned wires, dangling wires, etc.

It turns out that we you know we we we un uncovered several years ago a law, a state law that says that um if this you know if if the utility companies don't remove wires that the city absolutely has the authority to go and remove them and charge the utility company.

Now there's a lot of challenges with that, a confirming definitively whose wires they are, and of course, just having the um the capacity to to go around and and do that.

But um, you know, it my understanding, unless something's changed since the last time it was explained to me, is that this is that you know that is something that the city could do.

Obviously, that's not not something that that's not the most efficient way of doing business.

And um, I I recognize that um, you know, we have only uh the only representative here is Ms.

Duffy from Eversource, and there are a number of other utilities that use these polls, and it's this this sort of unfortunate circumstance of just a big circle with everybody pointing at the person to their left.

Um and we've just had years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years of this, and most of the time nothing happens and nothing changes.

Um it's really frustrating.

Um and so you know, unfortunately, I I I you know the issue writ large is not something we're gonna solve tonight in this meeting with this one grant application before us.

Um, but it is something that I think is especially with a new administration, worth raising again um, you know, at the council level for an item that is you know, sort of sort of specific on this to see if we could um I mean we're not in a financial situation right now as a city where we have tons of extra you know money and capacity hanging around, but um no pun intended.

Um but uh you know it it's it it might be worth coming back and have a conversation and collecting the representatives from the various utilities and um uh you know posing upon them again to uh clean up their masks.

Um that all said, um Ms.

Duffy, through through the chair um to Ms.

Am I correct that you're referring to sort of the the collective process to address double polls throughout the city and the need for utilities to um you know move their lines off of those in a sort of orderly manner so that polls can be removed.

So did I understand that correctly?

Yes.

So on the one um hold on one second on one of them it was Verizon and the other one was ACN.

So there's a uh a pecking order.

So actually, can I interrupt?

Could you just just for the sake of of folks who might be watching um and who don't recall the last conversation the council or this committee had on this?

Could you just sort of give us a high level of that what I'm talking about, that process?

Because I'm sure you'll explain it better than I did.

Okay, so we we go up, we get off first, then it's cable, TB, then Verizon.

Okay, let's take a higher level.

So there are double polls, a bunch of them around the city, right?

And we know where they are, and we have a list, right?

And and you all collectively uh I don't know if it's Eversource that is sort of leading the the process, but there's there is a there is a a sort of a deliberate process in place to you know remove those, right?

There's a data, there's a excuse me through the chia, there's a database called engines NJ UNS that they um keep the city can has has access to what and we have access, and I think I think the other utilities do also okay, and so and through the chair, so and and that um through that database, that database includes the double polls and and and that is that is sort of the process through which the utilities are collectively um you know, and I think there's a there's sort of an order of precedence, right?

Like this is the next poll to go, this is the next poll for for you.

So reach utility can look at where their next polls are.

And and the idea is that year over year we you all are eventually reducing the number of double polls.

This is the last the last time we had this this conversation in committee.

I I recall seeing this and say, well, wow, this we we should make this more known, right?

Because it is actually happening, at least that was the time.

Um so it through the chair, if I if I may sort of focus the question to the item before us, um uh there yeah, I think I understand that there are two double polls on on this street, and you mentioned the two utilities that are sort of the next in order.

Did can you speak at all to like what the expectations should be for where we are in that process or when those double polls can be, you know, when when folks should uh expect to those those to be addressed, or are there do we still have many utilities to go and would that translate into months or years or or weeks, or how should we be reading this?

That I cannot answer.

I would have to go to the back to the division.

I have no idea how long it would take them.

Okay.

Well, you I don't I don't want to lie to you.

Um I don't I just I appreciate that, but through the chair, I mean you you you spoke to who were you know which utilities were the next in line, so I I inferred from that that you maybe had had you know taken a look at the database and and was hoping maybe you might be able to shed a little more light on on where those are.

I I don't have to update the database.

I had asked the um the clerk that did it, and that's the information that she gave me back.

Just that those are the next two.

Those two polls, yes.

Okay.

Um that's all for now, madam chair.

I mean, I'm not sure that necessarily helps our our deliberation here, but I wanted to just give a little background for folks on that whole process and and how it might relate to this.

Yes.

Thank you.

While we were speaking, I've already sent um a text to the um community relations person to get the ball moving on this.

That's wonderful.

That's fantastic.

Um I just wanted to say briefly, just to counselor Davis's point.

Um I am working on the next resolution to to move that larger conversation forward along with um Councillor Scott, who's done a lot of work on this in the past.

And um I I just want to counselor Wheeler, just one second, because I want to ask a question specifically following up on uh counselor Davis's questions, um, to to Miss Duffy.

Um so given that am I correct in understanding that Eversource owns the polls.

Miss Duffy, are you still there?

Yeah, no, I lost you.

I I couldn't hear what you said.

Sorry, you just went you went blank.

Okay.

Am I correct in understanding that Eversource is the owner of the polls?

Yes.

Okay, and so is there um I understand there might not be a uh a regular communication with like RCN and Verizon, but I'm just wondering if there's a way to reach out with them to them.

Well, that's why we have that database.

That's the only way that I know that we we contact them, unless it's you know, maybe a struck poll or something like that.

But this I will look into.

I I'm just sending text now to get this really moving.

I was out there, I know how bad it is, and I feel bad that that tree died, and then I agree to it in 2020.

I take full responsibility for that.

But I can't tell you, I can't tell you when these other ones are gonna get off.

Yeah, okay.

Um, Counselor Wheeler, did you wanna thank you, Chair?

Um I'm just trying to take this opportunity to try to uh to enhance my education on the background of these questions.

Uh I don't understand what uh the precedence in question refers to.

I don't know if we're talking about an order of polls or an order of companies that have some kind of say or responsibility for a given poll.

Um I'm just I'm I'm coming from uh a lack of grounding in this.

Uh I don't want to take up everyone's time to teach me, but I would love an explainer as though I'm in fifth grade, uh that makes it crystal clear what we're talking about.

Thank you.

Thank you, Counselor Wheeler.

I appreciate the question.

Um and apologies for not making it more clear sooner.

So I'll I'll take a stab at it.

And Miss Duffy, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Um when there are when there is a double poll, each before it can be taken down, each of the wires that is attached to the one of the poles has the old poll.

Um, you know, what often happens is they have the old pole that for some reason needs it, you know, isn't structurally sound anymore, and then they affix it to a new pole that is stable, but then leave all the wires attached to that original poll.

And so each utility has to move their line separately to the new poll before the old poll can be taken down.

And that goes in this order that Miss Duffy was just telling us.

Um I believe that's the order that of Eversource, then cable, then TV and then Verizon.

And so all of that has to happen before the old poll can be taken down.

Um Ms.

Duffy, did I get that right?

Perfect.

Yep, you're perfect.

Counselor Wheeler, does that answer your questions, or do you have more questions?

Thank you.

Um so you know, I'm I'm curious about how this type of coordination works and uh and who's responsibility, if anyone's this type of coordination ultimately is having just served on this community a short amount of time, you know, I see that we start these conversations because there are these applications for a grant of location and essentially our ability to say yes or no, a lot you know, it is what spurs the conversation to be happening.

I just want to recognize that may structurally not be the ideal way to approach these questions, right?

Um if we're dealing with these questions only when a grant of location is requested, uh there may be a mismatch with the need in different areas.

Maybe there's not a grant of location needed on this street, but there's a big problem.

And then plus holding up a grant of location uh on these grounds, that that might be inconveniencing or adding cost to uh you know a project or a home or a developer.

In some cases, they may have deep pockets and it might not be a problem, but it's one of the things that can then cause something to stretch out with ultimately companies like Eversource really being you know, none the richer or none the poorer for it.

Um so uh I'm glad and I and I appreciate your your presence and your attention and your you're taking responsibility, Ms.

Duffy.

Absolutely.

That that really matters.

Um it may be that this approach is the extent of the council's powers currently.

Um it seems to me like uh it would be good to try to identify at least some kind of mechanism by which out of the rhythm of these grants of location, the city, whether it's counselors, whether it's the mayor's office, whether it's its staff, can be communicating with these utilities and and having a common understanding of a plan for what's gonna happen when.

Yes.

like uh it would be good to try to identify at least some kind of mechanism by which out of the rhythm of these grants of location the city whether it's counselors whether it's the mayor's office whether it's its staff can be communicating with these utilities and and having a common understanding of a plan for what's going to happen when yes and I I acknowledge I may not be the first to to state this idea do the Chia play um I see Moose has been in contact with that uh community relations person so he knows about a lot about what's going on with the double polls yes and just to your point counselor wheeler um absolutely this is what I've been working on um with counselor Scott and um engineering and um the legal department and we're trying to figure out like because this had like like counselor Davis referred to before this has been attempted in the past um to address the situation in a more systemic um fashion um and so far we haven't uh well as counselor Davis said there has been progress made and so we're very appreciative of that and want definitely want to recognize that there has been some progress made um but that we you know also recognizing that there is more work to be done um in this area and um and in particularly the the coordination and um you know having everybody um being able to address issues across all utilities right so um we are working on figuring out the best way um to approach it and so that will be this is just the beginning of the next phase of of this effort and so you we'll be seeing more I you know soon thank you so much chair I'm excited to hear about that I appreciate your treating this proactively and working with city staff to to get a better solution thank you thank you and Miss Deffi did you have something else to add that that I um preempted you from saying no I don't think so okay um well and also to counselor Wheeler's point I you know definitely don't want to do anything punitive to a specific um you know on a particular individual grant of location um so um and I appreciate I appreciate uh Miss Duffy I appreciate what the information the new information that you've been able to share tonight and Mr.

Duan I really appreciate you being here tonight and to provide the the longer term context um for this issue so um taking I just say something to the Chia I'm sorry Rich could I get a copy of that that you sent to um JT Scott back in 2020 if you can they have my email and my cell phone with the city if you if you don't mind sending it to me and I was wondering if we could get this approved for 38 Ivalu tonight with the stipulation that all this work would get done because it's holding up this customer and it's starting to be spring and they probably want to get everything done I don't know if that's um a thought that we could go look at yes I will I would like to get this I would like to get this done tonight I share that oh awesome thank you stuffy yes um Mr.

DeWan do you want to respond to Ms.

Duffy's question?

Through the chair I am happy to uh forward you the email I sent six years ago perfect thank you Chris okay great um so I I'm thinking that we should um move this forward like I just mentioned um with the but condition the license um that before construction starts um that we would like to see some um uh um given that given that ever source is not the next to go and just thinking about how to how to condition this um because we would still like to see the these issues resolved um let's see that um that there are what what do people think of conditioning it on that there are um continued efforts to to resolve these issues would that be uh make sense as a condition yes counselor wheeler uh thank you chair uh i'm a little concerned that continued efforts is a bit vague it might be something where we have really what we have ultimately is a a promise of good faith uh you know i i want to hear what uh what you and others have said about wanting to balance the the fallout of of this being drawn out longer i don't know anything about this particular uh resident or customer or or

Uh I'm a little concerned that continued efforts is a bit vague.

It might be something where we have really what we have ultimately is a promise of good faith.

Uh you know, I want to hear what uh what you and others have said about wanting to balance the the fallout of of this being drawn out longer.

I don't know anything about this particular uh resident or customer or um property owner.

Uh but uh I wonder if we could could maybe get a little more firm.

Not I'm not speaking from a place of certainty about this, but uh but could we could we articulate something achievable that's specific that um that as a condition might be even more motivating.

Yes.

Um well the what ideal, you know, I'll just say what ideally um I would like to see is that as a condition of starting construction that that the double poles are removed, you know, and that the wires are relocated and properly tensioned and you know that everything is fixed.

Um my hesitation with that is that because we are dependent on work from RCN and Verizon, um that it doesn't, you know, I'm and they aren't here.

Um I'm just wondering if you know that that would be an appropriate condition.

Um but I you know that I don't I think it would be that is what we would like to see here.

Yes, Counselor Davis.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um I appreciate the discussion.

I I and I had a conversation with uh acting clerk about this today.

Um this general concept, not this specifically.

Um while we do have broad discretion in in you know applying conditions, my concern in this case is that the in order for the conditions to be met, third parties that that you know are aren't a party to this grant duplication, would you know they need to do things and that we there's really no practical mechanism for us to for for you know for that to happen through this grant allocation process, unfortunately.

Um I I don't I don't like again years of frustration here we are again.

Um and you know, while on the one hand, I I you know I have I I want to and I and we have in the past sort of tried to use the this process to leverage um you know some improvements uh you know in this case I I think I'm inclined to to agree with sort of the what's been discussed and and you know Councillor Wheeler's suggestion that it's really coming down to good faith here and um the degree to which the the folks at air resource can um yeah anything they can do obviously but but yeah to to encourage that process to be moved along from the other utilities, but you know, we need the other utilities in the room to sign to to sign off on this, and and they're they're just not a party to this.

So I'm not sure unfortunately I'm not sure how much that would really have to make conditions that are that would really apply to other parties.

Exactly.

Yes, Counselor Wheeler.

Thank you.

I I really appreciate the the nuance of this conversation and and the focus on the practicalities.

Um I wonder if there are any aspects of this that are entirely within EverSource's control that we could that we could specify.

And that's something I'm speaking as someone who is not familiar with the wiring on the street.

Um I feel like if I were, I might be able to make some more concrete suggestions.

Um just purely as background understanding of uh of the wiring situation, I would be curious to ask both our our guests, Ms.

Duffy and Mr.

Dwan, if they have any suggestions about aspects of the wiring that are entirely within Ever Source's control that might be among among the points that we could touch on.

That I don't know of.

I mean, we have that we have that database.

That's all I know we can do.

And they we we we rely on them to come and take the Ys down.

That's all I can tell you.

When they're next in line, they come and they do it.

Thank you.

And and Mr.

Duan.

I'm sorry.

I'm that's the chair's job.

Go ahead, Mr.

Duan.

Thank you.

Through the chair.

Um, this is not my area of expertise.

I appreciate that we're dealing with multiple companies, most of whom are not in the room.

Um, and the the actual regulatory authority rests with the state.

Uh so it is it does seem to me to be a matter of personal trust and and all people just trying to do a good job and get along and make things safe uh for everybody.

Um if I had to come up with something, I would suggest um that asking Eversource somehow to make a formal evaluation of the condition of what's on the street in writing and at least assert that it's safe.

Uh and if it is unsafe, I would ask that they fix those safety issues um immediately, uh perhaps even preempting the the the waiting for these other companies to respond, which so far as I can tell, that never happens unless external pressures are is uh is applied.

Um it's been six years.

Uh, but but I would suggest that's entirely within EverSources Court to have somebody come out and take a look and write a paragraph either saying everything is to our standard and fine, or we identified a deficiency and we are fixing it.

I think that that would be a not unreasonable to ask.

Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate this conversation and the creative thinking.

Um, uh so I I've been by there a couple of times, including today, because I I knew from that work had been done.

Um and so I wanted to see if there were visible you know changes and improvements.

And certainly I can um appreciate that uh just from uh not knowing about about you know the the technicalities of this uh polls and lines, um just as a layperson, it does not look safe in a lot of respects.

So um that to me sounds like a reasonable thing to request other counselors or Ms.

Duffy.

Do you have any um reactions to Mr.

Dwan's proposal?

No, that's to me that sounds good.

Counselor Wheeler.

Sounds good to me too, Chair.

Thank you.

Great.

Okay.

So um thank you, Mr.

Duan, for for this um idea.

Um I will move that uh this license be approved and conditioned on um Eversource making a formal uh evaluation of the polls and lines on Ivalu and uh submitting a written report of their findings.

Did I did I get that right?

Did I leave anything out?

Anyone?

Or Mr.

Duan sounded perfect to me.

Um I I am also not a legislator.

I I don't know how to do what you do.

Thank you.

And Miss Duffy, yes, did you want to speak?

No, I think my mouse just moved.

Oh okay, thank you.

Okay, so um Clerk Letellier, can we um should we take a vote on that?

Or at this point, um, can we take the vote combined on that and the minutes approval?

We can take a roll call on the condition and then we can take a roll call on both of the items.

Fantastic.

Okay, thank you so much.

So uh we will take the roll call on the condition.

So on a condition that Eversource make a formal evaluation of the polls and lines on Ivalu and submitting a written report of their findings, Counselor Davis.

Yes.

Counselor Wheeler.

Yes.

Counselor Hart.

Yes.

And on the acceptance of agenda item one and approval of agenda item two and on adjournment, Counselor Davis.

Yes.

Counselor Wheeler.

Yes.

Counselor Hart.

Yes.

Those items are approved and we are adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.

Chris, thank you.

I got the paperwork already.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Thanks everyone.

Thanks.

Have a nice night, everybody.