Welcome everyone to this meeting of the uh City of Somerville's legislative matters committee of the city council.

I'm your host, Chair JT Scott, Ward 2 Counselor.

This is May 5th at 6.07 p.m.

Uh pursuant to chapter two of the X 2025.

This meeting is being conducted via remote participation.

And a recording will be posted shortly after the conclusion on the City of Somerville website.

Madam Clerk, if we could go ahead and take the role to establish this is roll call, Counselor Davis.

Here.

Counselor Mbaugh.

My experience.

Counselor Ewan Campen.

Counselor Shrezo.

Present.

Counselor Scott.

Present.

With four counselors present and one absent, we have Quan.

All right, wonderful.

Certainly would not mind taking up the agenda in order tonight, but I believe the administration has a request to take up one item out of order.

Just to be clear.

That is the item about a second hand ordinance.

Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

All right.

Well, seeing no objection to that from my colleagues, uh, let's go ahead and uh pick that one up.

Uh we'll take item 251686, amending chapter 8, article three of the code of ordinances pertaining to secondhand dealer licenses.

I believe you have an update from uh legal on this.

Oh hi, this is David Shapiro.

I think you you're asking for an update on legal.

My update is very brief.

I have reviewed the language and I have approved it as to legality.

That's my update.

Ah, great.

Thank you.

I understand it might have gotten to you late in the day.

So uh thank you for taking the time, assistant solicitor Shapiro, to uh give it a read through.

Uh let's see.

Sure.

Annalyst Salisbury, you have been uh leading the drafting in this effort, have you not?

Uh that's correct, Mr.

Chair.

All right.

Uh would you like to talk us through uh where you feel it is right now?

Because I know we'd received some pointed feedback uh from uh at least one uh secondhand dealer in the city.

Uh that's correct, Mr.

Chair, as well as some questions and feedback from members of this committee back in December when this was last taken up.

Um I worked with the city clerk and our assistant city clerk for licensing and vital records to uh make some changes to the proposed amendment uh that are responsive to those questions.

Um so uh I see that that is the version that is on the screen.

Um in sum the changes that we made, um, we're addressing questions from uh I believe it was both yourself and counselor Ewan Campen uh about whether a secondhand dealer would be required to request ID and produce a itemized receipt for items that they purchased at say an estate sale or a yard sale.

Um we did clarify in let's see, I believe it is subsection C of section 861, uh, that before purchasing merchandise or accepting it for consignment um at their storefront or place of business.

Uh so therefore removing the requirement that they might or removing the possibility that they might be required to ask for ID if they were to go out into the community and purchase things on their own uh for sale at their shop.

Uh can I stop you there?

861C, you say?

Uh yes, I believe so.

All right.

I don't see a storefront restriction there.

So that would be in the handout that is attached to the agenda, not the item that not the document that is attached to the item.

That is the original document.

Uh, all right.

So we are looking at the uh what we have on the screen is not the most recently updated one.

No, that is what is on the screen.

Yeah, there we go.

You are in the correct section.

Yeah.

All right.

I am looking at the wrong one.

Thank you.

Please continue.

Uh next in D.

Um, we did make some slight changes to clarify uh precious item or sorry, yes, I believe it was.

Yes, I believe it was D.

Um to clarify some precious the precious items category.

Um specifically, uh, you may note that I did remove the word donation from the first sentence of D because as was actually pointed out to me by our uh assistant city clerk who is clerking this meeting this evening.

Uh it would be unusual for a thief to donate uh a precious item to a secondhand dealer.

Um so we did separate out uh into three categories um items that include precious metals such as gold, silver, or platinum, um books, paintings, sculptures, or metalwork or or similar items that are marked with a unique identifier, uh, and items that are identified with a serial number or engraving, we did include some examples such as uh electronic devices or bicycles, which are purchased by the second hand dealer for 150 dollars or more.

Uh the reason for this was as noted, um there might be somebody who sells a VCR, which might be worth only five dollars.

Uh, and the idea of treating that as a precious item might seem a little ridiculous to some.

Um the sum total of 150 dollars we came to because that is roughly the average sale price of a used iPhone or bicycle.

Uh, and of course, as we know, smartphones and bicycles are very high theft items.

Uh and then lastly, we did clarify a bit about um the transaction records and receipts.

There was, as you may recall, previously a requirement in there that receipts and transaction records be sent to the chief of police.

Um in conversations with the police department, we felt that that was not an appropriate method for um enforcement and have kind of shifted to a strictly report-based model where if somebody reports an issue, then um enforcement can take place.

We are requiring that dealers retain receipts and transaction records for at least three years from the date of the transaction.

Uh and I am happy to answer any questions about those changes.

Sure.

Well, I've got uh a few, but I see Councilor Streso has uh has some questions.

So Councillor Streso, you have the floor first.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh first and foremost, I remember this being discussed earlier, but can we give a quick brief historical summary on the prompting of the the tweaking of the ordinance, etc.?

Um certainly counselor through the chair.

Um this came up uh in I believe it was September of last year.

Uh uh a few of counselors put forward an order requesting that the city clerk work to amend this ordinance to um essentially modernize it.

There were some things in there that that had kind of fallen out of date.

It was also a little bit unclear as to who was required to be licensed as a secondhand dealer.

Uh so we did add some clarifying language in there.

The vast majority of the red lines in here are to bring this ordinance in line with the style guide that the city clerk's office published a couple years back.

Uh has been a couple years now, actually.

Um so the vast majority of these changes are not in fact really substantive and are mostly style.

Um, but there were some some important clarifications in there.

Thank you.

I'm happy to hop back in line uh, Mr.

Chair, if you wish.

I just had a question, additional or two, but happy to get back in line.

Go right ahead.

Nicola.

All right.

Well, thank you.

Um trying to figure out so we we want to make sure that, right, if if if items are stolen, um that uh there is still in some way some kind of like ability that that's still that hasn't been uh lost.

Uh that that can still be tracked in some ways if item are items are stolen and and pawned or placed in in these uh shops.

Because as I recall last year, uh huge embedded, I remember the conversations, huge emphasis of like modernizing it, um, and and then the licensure, but can you go into details?

Any of that been changed?

I see that there's a three year is that a statue of liberty uh is that within the statute of limitations of uh filing stolen property or trying to find your your stolen property, etc.

This is there where I'm going with that.

Uh counselor through you uh through the chair to you, counselor, to answer your question.

Um the three years was uh uh a length of time that I had seen in other ordinances relating to um sort of similar things.

It doesn't have anything to do with the statute of limitations.

It may coincidentally line up with it, um, but that was not something that we considered uh when setting that three-year timeline.

Um it's it's a relatively common length of time to require that businesses keep records.

And last question, if I may, Mr.

Chair.

Uh where maybe I missed the strike through, but where are power tools and and power tools are like which are often stolen and uh pond items and even electrical, like I'm sorry, music musical equipment.

Does that uh like plus or minus 150?

So for instance, where power drills go come in on this.

Uh Mr.

Chair, through you, yes.

So those would fall under items that are uh um actually I don't know that power tools are typically engraved with a serial number, but they may be.

Um that's a that's a good question.

I actually don't know off the top of my head.

Um, but we do include like electronic devices or bicycles in there as kind of uh uh an indication that we're painting with a broad brush.

Um and the intent is to capture uh high theft items.

Um I would actually have to look and see if they are typically identified with a serial number.

I expect that they would be, but I I would have to double check that.

Um Mr.

Salisbury, yeah, I would like to find out about that.

Uh and fact check that that not fact check that, but uh get confirmation on that, including musical equipment as well.

Um we're not just talking guitars, but like, you know, uh amps, etc.

Stuff like that, um, which may or may not fall uh over like with the serial number, sure with a roll and amp, but with power drill, maybe or maybe not.

Um don't we want to make sure we're doing the the least bit of harm if if people's equipment are still is stolen.

All right.

I appreciate that, Councilor Streso.

Uh is that it all right.

So uh it sounds like the request is to look into how to reference power tools and you know, uh the secondhand value of power tools, I think is also a question in terms of the 150 threshold there.

It's uh I think it's something that uh just to ask a few questions about.

Uh Councilor Mba, I see you have a question.

Really quick, Mr.

Chair.

Um, and uh musical equipment.

Right.

Right amps and uh Counselor Mba.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, since I don't have much time.

I just was curious about like you know, they kind of uh enforcement mechanism, you know, or incentive that will ensure that this updated, you know, licensing framework is is both effective and equitable.

Like what is it is that in that.

Uh Mr.

Chair, through you to Counselor Mbaugh, the the enforcement mechanism is not something that we have changed in terms of licensing.

Um that is something that that is is going to remain in place.

If somebody makes a report that a secondhand dealer is operating without a license, then there will be an investigation.

Uh and there may be some enforcement, such as a fine or or a requirement that they shut down their operation um until they obtain a license, but that's there's nothing new effectively there.

Uh and there's no difference between that lo that type of enforcement and the enforcement that we would see with other our other licensed businesses throughout the city.

Um my understanding is we're not sending police officers out there to check the licenses of every secondhand dealer in the city.

But if somebody does make a report, then they they may well show up to to make sure that there it is a license for that operation.

Okay.

And so that means um thank you.

Uh uh satisfactory.

So we had no that makes sense.

And and if I'm here, just follow up Chairman Scott.

I'm also just curious, you know, as to you know how my this changes in uh uh kind of like affect like compliance rates among say existing dealers and your entrance to the market.

You know, it's like how is that you know, just to compare because now we are updating something is already in uh like folks that have already been in the market and then is that also like the the ones that are probably gonna be getting in.

I'm sure the ones that are getting in, they're just gonna get caught up.

But the ones that this will be applying to them, like how would that change in requirement affect compliance rate?

Um, Mr.

Chair, through you, I I don't foresee that it will affect that.

We did clarify a bit um who is affected by this, but generally speaking, we expect to to rather I should say we don't have any predictions about uh changes in compliance.

Um because there were questions about whether this was um impacting secondhand dealers if they were not taking in um used goods for sale um and only accepted donations.

We we saw fit to clarify that, but we can't speak to whether that will alter people's inclination to comply with the ordinance.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chairman Scott.

Thank you, Councilor Mbaugh.

Um, you know, compliance with the ordinance is uh I think we're trying to make something that's uh going to be possible to comply with.

Uh I think there may only be one actual licensed uh business in the city, and I know we've got a lot more secondhand stores than that.

So uh, and in fact, I've gotten uh a few constituent complaints about one of the stores in the area asking about uh uh about some of the procedures there.

And it's tough when they're not operating with a license right now.

So hopefully we'll be able to uh move on this before too long.

Uh my only question for Annalyst Salisbury here was um, it says uh went in, I believe 61D.

Uh yeah, which is uh starting is at the bottom of our screen right now.

Uh secondhand dealer create a record of a transaction when they take possession uh of an item uh such as a book, painting, sculpture, metalwork, or similar marked with a unique identifier signature or stamp by its creator, manufacturer, or owner.

So um I mean, every every book has like a publisher's mark on it.

Uh is that what we're referring to here?

Um, Mr.

Chair, no.

Um my understanding of this is that this would be similar to, for instance, an autographed copy of a book.

Um, or you know, uh uh a signed painting or sculpture or something like that.

Um the intent is certainly not to, as you may recall, um, earlier on in the ordinance, we did exempt uh dealers who operate specifically and exclusively in the sale of books.

Um so I don't read this as an intent to capture all books, um, but specifically those that are unique in the sense that uh I think that the the unique identifier itself helps to um indicate our intent there.

Um for instance, I have a signed screenplay of Star Wars from George Lucas, and I'm pretty sure it might actually be the only one in existence, and I'd be very upset if it showed up in a secondhand dealer shop.

So hopefully this would prevent that from going missing if that were to happen.

I learned something new every day, Annalis Salisbury.

Uh and I guess I just want to, you know, this doesn't also uh exempt say secondhand uh we there's like a bunch of vinyl stores uh in the neighborhood here.

Um some are exclusively vinyl, some are vinyl and other things.

Um presumably those, unless they are signed, uh like a signed album, uh, you know, Michael Jackson signed a copy of Thriller.

Um, that those would also not be um covered by this section, regardless of whether or not it was a large collection of pieces that were bought in bulk for 200.

Uh that's correct, Mr.

Chair.

That would be covered under um uh subsection C.

We do require an itemized receipt for collections like that.

However, um, in conversation with staff within the clerk's office, um, we came down to we're we're not we're choosing not to be explicitly clear about what itemized means.

Um if somebody were to take in an entire mountain of t-shirts, we certainly would not expect them to take several days to sort through and list a full description of each t-shirt that they are taking in.

Um we think that it is appropriate to leave that to the discretion of the business owner.

Um, and then if it if it causes problems in the future, we can revisit.

That sounds good.

I know in my days, uh shopping the Garmin District uh dollar a pound bins.

I probably couldn't even give you an ID advised receipt of what I purchased.

Uh let's see, Counselor, you and Camp and I see you popped on screen there.

Do you have anything to contribute?

Just to note that I am here.

All right.

Happy to have you with us, sir.

Uh we will make sure that it gets uh marked down for the record.

All right.

Well, uh that sounds good.

I've got my questions answered here.

It sounds like there's a few outstanding questions uh from Counselor Strezzo, so I'm happy to leave this in committee.

Uh, hopefully we'll be able to um push it back out on May 19th, because we've got some room, I believe, on that agenda.

Uh and in the meantime, I will also continue to circulate this around uh for uh public comment for anybody who's tuning in.

Uh, please uh bring a copy of this by your favorite uh secondhand and vintage dealer in the city and uh make sure that they feel good about it and that uh it's the kind of language that they can get behind in terms of complying and being a registered part of the city.

Uh okay.

Well, given that, let's go ahead and uh keep this item in committee for now, and we will return to the regular order of business.

And I've lost my tabs.

All right.

Uh returning to the regular order, that would take us back to uh item number uh one on our agenda.

That's 260046 amending chapter 2, Article 3 of the Code of Ordinances by adding a new section establishing the time and place of regular meetings of the city council.

I know this is one that our chief administrative officer Kimberly Wells was very excited about.

I don't believe she is with us tonight, but uh Annalyst Salisbury, I believe she identified you to be the one to carry the torch on the side.

Mr.

Chair, that is correct.

I did write this, and I feel pretty confident in my ability to speak on it.

As you noted, this is a change that is uh derived from the new charter.

Uh the charter does require that the time and place of meetings be set by ordinance to make it a little bit more durable.

Uh previously it was set by the rules of the city council.

Um the proposal here is very simple.

The the first portion of it, the first subsection, is to simply codify the current practice of the city council.

Um the interesting part for committee discussion, um, or not not to make any presumptions, of course, um, is that in 2028, we are recommending that the regular meetings of the city council be held on the fourth second and fourth Tuesday evenings beginning at 6 p.m., um except when Tuesday falls on a holiday, in which case the meeting shall be held on the following Thursday evening at 6 p.m.

We have a lot of reasons for this recommendation.

Um I will note from the outset, though perhaps one of the the less important ones of these uh is that that note about a holiday would probably only roll around once every five years on the rare occasion that Veterans Day might fall on that day.

Um it it is our recommendation for for a variety of more substantive reasons.

I'm happy to go through those, or I'm happy to take questions, whichever is your preference.

Uh all right.

Uh tell you what, let's go to Councillor Streso.

Well, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Wow, I'm the first one to raise my hand right on.

Okay.

Yes.

Um, yes, uh, Mr.

Salisbury, um I definitely do need uh details of a suggestion of Tuesday for some with kids, especially you know, single parents with kids.

The difference between Tuesdays and Thursdays is very much uh more complex.

So um uh to even get on board with the suggesting suggestion, and definitely hear more, need to hear more of the reasoning.

And I do see that um the time slide is potentially changed from seven to six, um, which uh I I want to hear as well uh from my colleagues about how that may or may not um help our constituents be able to attend meetings.

Um and even those with kids, uh school-aged children or little babies.

So I'll start with uh the first question of uh the the reasoning uh of suggestions for the Thursday to Tuesday.

And certainly, Mr.

Chair, through you to the counselor's question.

Um there are really kind of two reasons for this.

Um the first being uh staff considerations.

Umundamentally, uh Thursday meetings are a little bit of a nightmare for staff.

And there's a variety of reasons for that.

Um one of them is logistics.

Generally speaking, there is a lot that goes into post-meeting work.

Um so following a Thursday evening meeting, which could run quite significantly late.

Um, we do have our Fridays, which are a half day, um, and it is very difficult to get our normal work done as well as all of the post-meeting logistics done on Friday, especially given that we're going into a weekend and we generally would like to get all of the things done before the next business day.

Um so a change to Tuesday would allow us to use Wednesday, which would allow us to space that out a little bit.

Uh it also means fundamentally that that a lot of the items that are before the council could end up approved within the same week without actually having to wait over the weekend.

Um current practice right now is that items cannot go to the mayor until Monday, uh, which then might take a significant amount of time um depending on the on the the item itself.

Whereas uh if we were to change to a Tuesday meeting, we'd be able to put these items before the mayor on Thursday and have them approved as soon as Friday.

Um there's also a lot to be said for the issue of staff morale.

Um it is difficult uh to say the least to work a 12-hour day uh and then potentially be in a meeting starting at 7 p.m.

Uh until whenever your item gets taken up.

And of course, uh, you know, sometimes we do make the effort to take up items that have staff to speak on them out of order, but there's no guarantee that that the item would be taken up before the end of the workday.

Um and while certainly a 6 p.m.

meeting on a Tuesday falls outside of normal working hours, it does grant about an hour and a half for people to breathe, go get dinner, take a break, kind of decompress a little bit before having to attend a city council meeting.

Would that staff would be able to attend those in working hours?

And there are significantly more staff that tend to attend those meetings than attend city council meetings.

Or certainly more regularly.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I appreciate it.

And through you to Annalyst Salisbury, thank you so much for your work on putting this together.

And particularly, you know, the change of the day.

As hopefully folks have noticed when in my sort of you know planning out the city council meetings, I I try my absolute best to make it as as you know at least impactful as possible.

But it's just it's not easy to do.

And um, you know, Ms.

Salisbury laid out uh a number of ways that this Tuesday meeting in the six o'clock time would you know would be somewhat less of a burden on um at some of our city staff.

And and and I think that you know that that is a very compelling argument.

Um I'll also note as as an aside, and you know, this is a very secondary or even you know um lower uh priority, but there's a lot of cool stuff that happens on Thursday nights around our city, fundraisers and events and things that we often can't go to.

And and I'd love to show my face at some of those things.

Um, taste of the immigrant city, the homeless coalition fundraiser that you know, just enable to name a few.

So it'd be great to uh to be able to you know to show up to support those uh community partners that we have that are doing such important work of the city, um and and and you know, have that uh have that night free.

I mean, notwithstanding uh committee meetings that that may be happening, but I think it gives us a little more flexibility.

Um certainly a six o'clock committee meeting versus a seven o'clock city council meeting um feels like it it uh you know it will give it would give us a little more flexibility as well.

So I think this is a great idea.

I will I will confess that I I was very hesitant at first.

It might sort of initial maybe it's just as the oldest counselor, you know, change no change bad.

Um but it you know, in hearing the arguments um in the conversations I've had since then, I think it's it's it's very well thought through, and I appreciate that.

Um and and I'm in support.

That said, Mr.

Chair, um it it is a it's a pretty big change.

And you know uh while I I certainly have no nothing else that I uh uh at least at this point feel like I need to consider, although obviously I'll I'll hear my colleagues' thoughts, and if there's questions raised, I I would value those.

But um it might be the kind of thing that we want the public to have an opportunity to weigh in on.

Um I you know, I don't know.

I'm just throwing that out there.

Like it it because the change wouldn't happen until 2028, there's no you know, there's no rush.

If there's some if there's something that we're not thinking of, um, you know, it's the kind of thing it is a big fundamental change to the way the city council works.

Um it has worked for literally decades.

Um so I wouldn't be abject, I wouldn't oppose to keeping this in committee just just in case someone wants to tell us why we're all wrong.

Um I don't think that's gonna happen, but but if it were um that said, like I said, I I I wouldn't object if someone made a motion to to put move it forward.

So I think it's a great idea, and and thanks again to Mr.

Salisbury, and I know all the folks in the clerk's office and and council staff that put time into all of these changes that are necessary to um uh to to bring us in line with the new charter.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Counselor Davis.

Um yeah.

Well, I it seems like 10 years ago when we started on this council, that might be a call to have a public hearing about it, but um, I'm glad you're not going that direction.

Uh counselor Ewan Kim.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and just apologies.

My my thoughts on this aren't quite as gathered because I I think I'm still in the the apprehension phase.

Like I'm I'm I'm thinking through in real time the effect it would have on my life.

Which would be, you know, in theory, right?

Were I to be a city counselor in 2028?

Um it would be significant, I would say.

I mean, I I'm thinking through the the two years that I spent as president.

The two hours between the end of my regular work day and the city council meeting were really important for my planning.

Um that's when I met with the clerk to go through the details.

Um that's when I would have a little bit of dinner with my family beforehand.

That all said, um if the meeting were another time, I would adjust my schedule, right?

I think you know, I I came on to the council as as counselor Davis said, this was the way things worked, and I have gotten very used to it.

I it I've I've figured out how it can uh you know integrate into my life and a change I think would be difficult, but I just can't come up with any arguments against what liaison Salisbury just went through.

You know, I think those are really, really compelling reasons for this.

I don't think there is a time that we can hold our meetings that will be ideal for every member of the public, obviously.

Like I think there are members of the public that I've heard have made a really compelling case for our meeting should be during the day.

Um I've heard lots of people say that that would be completely unacceptable for them.

I mean, I think different constituents have different available times.

Um so I don't think we're gonna get 100% by no matter what we do.

I am a little bit apprehensive about this.

I will say that.

I'm not, you know, I didn't come prepared really to vote on this.

Um because I'm I'm I'm still working through it.

But I will say, like, I don't have any good arguments against what Brendan just said.

I mean, I think that those are like very legitimate arguments around that are that are based on kind of like inherent frustrations with moving city business forward um and respecting the time of our staff in addition to the public.

So, you know, I I'm I'm leaning towards supporting this.

Um, but I will say, you know, as counselor strozo raised, like I have two young kids, it is not easy to prepare before a 6 p.m.

meeting all the time.

Um I would make it work.

I'm sure that counselors will make it work, but it's it's a it's a challenge for everyone, and I would imagine particularly with with uh people with young kids.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thank you.

Thank you, Counselor Ewan Campen.

Uh, you know what?

I do think it's an interesting thought.

I also wouldn't mind getting our meeting started a little bit earlier, but uh I know I tend to get up uh quite early.

Not everybody does.

Um, I I think this is a useful thing to think about.

You know, one thing that occurs to me uh is that you know, when we're putting in agendas uh for meetings, uh, you know, if an item is coming into the city council, it can't be put onto a committee agenda until uh you know, before it is actually accepted by the uh by the council and directed to that committee.

So uh I wonder if having our meetings on Tuesday would mean that no item that came before the council on a Tuesday could appear on an agenda before uh the following Monday, which right now I think the delay is to Tuesday.

Uh just putting it out there, I'm not sure about all the logistics of that, but uh I wonder about if it if it abbreviates the amount of council uh committee meetings that we're able to get in functionally between council meetings.

Uh, because I know it's already a pretty compressed schedule.

So it's just one thought I want to throw out there.

Uh I saw uh Councillor Ewan Campin, you popped your hand up, and then I saw Councilor Strozo, you did yours.

So Councillor Ewan Campen, go for that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh another issue that I neglected to raise.

We currently don't allow committee meetings the day before a city council meeting, which is a every other Wednesday, second and fourth.

Um, you know, I don't know if that that's not in law anywhere, right?

That's a function of clerk office capacity as I understand it.

Taking Monday off the table would be really hard.

You know, maybe this is the point you were just making, Mr.

Chair, but that that seems like a real issue to me.

I wonder if the clerk's office could respond.

Yeah, I mean, it's not just taking Monday off the table, but it's also taking the Wednesday and Thursday following the council meeting off the table because we couldn't uh publish an agenda.

It would functionally shrink the meetings times between city council meetings to just the four days of the following week, I believe.

Uh Salisbury, on that point, do you have anything?

Um, Mr.

Chair, uh I I do to some extent.

I think that the I I can appreciate the concern.

I don't think that it is as significant, a real concern, but not as significant a concern, I think, is as you're worried about.

Um currently the the sort of buffer of the weekend certainly does provide some assistance in that regard.

Um, but that does also introduce some issues when there are Monday holidays and things like that, um, which are frequent, of course.

Um and so there are really already kind of these these obstacles that we are required to navigate around with regards to the open meeting law.

Um so I I don't think based on my conversations with the city clerk that this would cause the level of disruption um that you're you're expressing concern about.

Um you know, it's it's already relatively um uncommon practice to have items come off the city council uh agenda in significant numbers and go directly onto uh a committee agenda immediately following it.

Um and so there's really not much of a change in that regard.

I do know that that's uh occasionally the case for legislative matters, um, when something is is of particular urgency.

Um, but there is no reason that I can think of why we would not be able to sorry, I'm just trying to plot out the time in my head.

Um those meetings could certainly be held on a Friday.

Um I I cannot think of any reason why posting the agenda on a Wednesday would prohibit those meetings from being held on a Friday evening.

All right.

Well, you'd have to ask staff how they feel about staffing Friday night meetings, I think, in terms of uh staff morale.

Mr.

Chair, that sounds like a party to me, quite frankly.

Thank you.

Uh let's see.

I saw oh, Councilor Chazer, you brought your hand down.

Uh so unless you got something, I will go to Councilor Davis.

Council Davis.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and it is on that direct point as well.

Um it's it's a excellent point.

Um I I as Mr.

Salisbury said, I I think the the net impact would be uh you know, it would only really relate to those somewhat less uh typical scenarios where there's an item submitted in the it to the city council on a Thursday and then it goes onto a committee agenda the next week.

I I would bet that if we looked at those data, it would be uh that'd be pretty small percentage of the items that are in the council, certainly with legislative matters.

That's you know, that that does tend to happen.

We we we squeeze we slip those those uh Tuesday ones in, but you know, to take take this agenda itself.

Um, you know, the these the the these items have all been on here for a long time.

Um so I I think that you know we certainly could still have committee meetings Wednesday, Thursday.

I don't know, I feel about Friday, but that hypothetically could happen.

It could be a Friday day meeting as well.

If there was uh, you know, if there was a a pressing need to uh to get our minds together on something.

Um, you know, and then yeah, you you would need to um I think we know we'd we'd my my anticipation would be that that the you know committees like well we'd have to think about it, right?

Like where does finance sit?

Where does legislative matter sit?

Where does where does land use sit?

I think in my head, I was thinking that that probably land use still sits on that Thursday on the well, land use would sit on the Thursday of the council meeting.

Um because those those have to be advertised when it's public hearings, those have to be advertised well in advance.

And so you'd sort of you'd know that, and then and then the finance and and legislative matters would have plenty of time to uh to post an agenda for the following week.

Um or something different, right?

That's just sort of one uh you know um off the top of my head kind of thought.

So um, you know, I it's it's definitely a factor um that we should think about, but uh you know, I'll note that it's um I I think I I I I I would bet uh that a lot uh I don't like betting.

Um I would guess that that a vast majority of items on uh on uh committee agendas uh have been sitting in that uh in that box for uh for for more than uh more than a week.

Um and that it wouldn't be a uh a significant impact.

And as I said, if if there was something really, really pressing, well we could sort it out and figure it out and we'll we'll make it work.

Um if if that's the the decision we decide to make.

And I one thing I'll just also note too, um if I may, Mr.

Chair, to um Council Campus point.

Um also completely valid and and should you know would share some of those concerns, at least as it relates to um to planning, uh I'll note that um since I took the the presidency, um I I I at my request, we've moved those planning um meetings to Wednesday.

Um it's my opinion that that planning ahead of time um is easier and less stressful for everyone.

And that if something comes up between Wednesday and and the now the currently thirte uh uh Thursday council meetings, we can we can text each other, we can sort it out.

But um, you know, that that that those planning meetings happen ahead of time so that we're you know we can do it in a more sort of calm uh uh you know, calm manner.

So hopefully that would that would mitigate some some of that concern at least.

Um while there certainly are lots of things that come up in the time right before council meeting.

Uh for the most part, all y'all have been pretty good about letting me know stuff ahead of time because that's what I've asked.

And I and I think going forward, uh you know, I would hope that um you know, for whoever holds this role uh in the future that that you know we we set that precedent because it just makes everyone's lives easier.

Um and so you know, I think that that you know, having to do I guess it I you know, as I think about it, I guess the planning meeting would then be Monday.

Um so you might have a little bit more because folks haven't thought about stuff um over the weekend, maybe, whereas now they're thinking about stuff on you know Tuesday, Wednesday and let me know.

But um, yeah, I it it as Council Cameron said, if that's the way it went, we'll we'll we'll figure it out.

We'll we'll shift the calendars, we'll sort it out.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair.

All right.

No, thank you, Ms.

uh Council Davis.

I I appreciate that.

Um yeah, I think there's I think there's some thought that we can put into this.

I I don't think uh I'm ready necessarily to move this out right now, but I really appreciate approaching the discussion on it.

I think what I'm what I'd like to do is to take a little bit of time with pen and paper and try to figure out exactly uh what this would mean for in terms of a potential uh committee schedule and what this would do to our ability to schedule things.

I I knew uh have a concern about how folks would feel about Friday night uh city council committee meetings.

But um, you know what?

I I think it's worth considering and uh taking a look at it.

Uh so I I think I'm happy to do that uh in the interregnum between next meeting.

Counselor Strezzo, I see you got your hand raised.

I'm back.

The interwebs is being not super great right now.

So I missed some of the conversation, which is kind of a bummer.

Um so I'll I'll have to follow up.

Um but I yeah, I I'm not ready to make a decision tonight.

Absolutely not.

I agree with you, Mr.

Chair, that I think that um we should we need to sit and get out that pencil and paper and see exactly what it would look like because yeah, I wondered then, okay, as we're just about to also on this agenda have a rule change for submitting agenda items, what will that look like and in January 2028 of deadline, etc.

uh posting agendas for regular meetings.

And then one additional question, and this uh I suppose is more rhetorical at this point, and although it is a different body entirely, but the school committee, which also meets on seven o'clock at night.

So are there plans or considerations from the school side of this to change?

And I know different different uh employees in different bucket.

However, um, is there talking consideration of uh school committee body doing the same to 6 p.m.

over seven?

So and I definitely either way want to um hear from the public on this and what they thought.

Would this make this easier for say for instance we have a citation?

Um, or when um a member of rank goes up in their family comes, is is six o'clock easier, or is it harder for some of their family members to be able to get to council to get uh firefighter promotion or not?

Yeah I think those are I think those are good good and interesting thoughts.

All right uh well it sounds like we've all got a little bit to noodle on I really appreciate the uh work in bringing it forward uh I anticipate I'll probably have a few conversations with our uh new chief administrative officer and probably with you too Mr.

President just trying to get my head around all this um so I I recommend keeping this in committee and then we can come back to it again at a future meeting hopefully with uh a little bit more a little bit more thought we can start asking our our constituents and friends about it because I'm sure that the number of those that watch these meetings regularly um we know who the regulars are all right uh so let's go ahead and leave that in committee.

Uh next up in our agenda uh we have item number two that's 260354 uh the rule four the rules of the city council be amended to update submission deadlines for agenda items consistent with the provisions of open meeting this one I'm very excited about uh analyst Salisbury I see the language appears on the screen here uh would you like to introduce this or uh counselor Davis would you like to be the one to introduce this since it's your item I think I I could take the one this one Mr.

Chair if it's okay with you and Larsbury uh this was uh uh put together at my request so thank you uh thank you Brendan for uh for putting pen and paper uh for me um yeah that you know so uh as the item says it you know the the this the intent here is to actually better align and more closely align our our rules and in fact our practices with the actual law um so I know it's a a really radical concept that we should just follow the laws that apply to our scheduling and posting of agendas and such.

But uh you know the the this came about because so historically you know this council and the board of all of them and pre before this have um used the supplemental agenda and just so for folks folks at home um you know we publish an agenda on on Tuesdays and then traditionally any item that came in you know after uh after that agenda was sort of put together um and prior to uh the publishing of a of a revised agenda on Thursday went on what's called the supplemental agenda if you look at it at the agenda anything that's with starts with the number 10 um that that's that's that's the supplemental agenda um and the public doesn't see those until Thursday of stopping there the public doesn't see those items until the day of the council meeting that in my opinion is clearly contrary to the intent and probably the letter of the open meeting law the requirement that we post an agenda 48 hours ahead of the meeting time.

So you know that as to me is is is really a clear and and unambiguous um and and you know something that we should uh you know do a better job of of of a adhering to now there are some gray areas because uh the open meeting law through a variety of of sort of uh sources of legal input and I won't bore all y'all with the you know the the the the nuances there but um you know there's some gray area if if if it it if the the presiding officer uh could reasonably anticipate that an item would be discussed at the meeting then um then it needs to be on the agenda if the presiding officer could not reasonably anticipate then it it shouldn't be on the agenda.

That kind of sounds funny because it's like well you you all just gonna show up and start talking about things that aren't on the agenda well no so it you know the the the the wording of the of the language itself is is a bit it has some ambiguity you know in in and of itself um what we've done in the past or what we've done uh sorry in in the past almost well going on a year now since since I took this position is um it is trying to be you know uh more closely aligned with the both the spirit and the letter of the open meeting law uh as my colleagues will will know um and anyone who all of our regular viewers will will recall when when things are in that section 10 I will ask you know I will make a note of well why is this you know why was this not anticipated?

Why did this come up?

And it you know and then the second prong of the requirement is is there some specific time consideration right?

So there have been a whole host of items that have never made it to agendas or haven't made it to the agenda that week because um I have asked those questions and the and the answer has been it can wait it can wait for the next for you know for the next meeting.

Um the other thing we've done is to push things to a committee where it will then be properly noticed and before any deliberation happens, it can be it can be uh you know, it would be noticed to uh to the public.

But um the the intent of this is to is to really you know codify or or or not codify, but you know um reflect in our actual rules, what we've been doing uh more or less for the past um you know past several months.

Um it does and and we'll stick with the the Thursday night meetings for now.

If we decide to change that, we'll uh we'll we'll get out of calendar and figure out what the what the right dates and times are.

Um but for now, whereas the current rules require something to be in by uh the end of the day Monday, this actually would extend that time till Tuesday morning.

Um if for those of you who can who can do math and and understand how a clock works or a calendar works, you'll you'll think, well, wait a minute, Tuesday at seven o'clock would be 48 hours.

Why is it why has it been Monday?

The reason is the clerk's office has to has to type the agenda.

They have to push a lot of, yeah, they do a lot of keystroking and uh and and compiling and things to actually get so you know the letter of the law says if something is submitted at you know 659 on Tuesday, it need it needs to go on the agenda.

Practically speaking, that's impossible, of course, right?

Um, because that button's gonna get pushed um you know, not later than 48 hours before before the meeting.

So there's sort of a gray error that that is allowed for the practicality.

We've we've shrunk that from our current rules.

So it it now allows until you know effectively, you know, what what what Brendan finds in his in his inbox Tuesday morning when he when he rocks up to his desk um is uh you know is is good to go.

And what isn't there uh is not unless it meets those requirements of being having been unforeseen and or not reasonably anticipated, anticipating foreseen.

I can't remember it's foreseen or anticipated, but same concept.

You know what I mean.

Um and has some some time sensitivity to it.

Um so that's the crux of this.

Like I said, it is intended to sort of have our rules reflect both the open media law requirements and what we've actually been doing here for the last few months.

Um hopefully it is uh I mean, you know, I hope this isn't controversial.

I hope there's no significant concerns.

As I said, it does actually give us a little more time in the world before to submit things and have them be you know validly um uh you know uh appropriate for uh for for the agenda for that week um and and lessens the likelihood of someone um making a claim that we're somehow violating OML can we try to avoid that as much as we can.

That's uh that's my long-winded explanation, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you for your indulgence.

Uh no, thank you, Councillor Davis.

I did just have one question for you.

Uh so it references that uh items submitted by a member uh appearing if been by Tuesday by 8 30.

Uh any item submitted by a non-member shall only appear on the agenda if it is in the hands of the city clerk by the close of business four days before the meeting, which is Friday uh by 1230 p.m.

I would presume that would uh cover public comment or uh public uh petition.

Yeah, and I think I I might defer to to analyst Salzbury on this.

My understanding is that there's you know, oftentimes when when things are submitted, there's a bit more um you know back end office work that that is required to to verify, etc.

But um, Brendan, if you want to add any color to that, uh I'd um through you, Mr.

Chair, I'd defer to Mr.

Salisbury.

Um, Mr.

Chair, through you, um, or to you rather, as you were the one who asked the question.

Um Counselor Davis is correct.

There it there are some additional logistics that go on with regard to uh approval processes and things like that for items that come in uh either from members of the public or from members of staff.

Um so this would apply notably to items submitted by staff as well.

Um so we are not um unfairly burdening only the council or only members of the public, we are applying this to everyone equally.

Um there are, of course, uh, as as counselor Davis alluded to, um, some gray areas and some nuance.

Certainly if somebody has a license that only got approved, you know, you know, uh on Friday morning, um, and they are unable to put in or a public event, for instance, if if you know that gets approved Friday morning, doesn't make it onto the agenda, but the event is the Friday after the city council meeting, um, there could be some flex there to make sure that it does appear on the regular agenda, um, or if absolutely necessary to appear on the supplemental agenda if it was you know not reasonably anticipated uh and uh does naturally have that time sensitive component to it.

So we're not going to be preventing people from holding their block parties uh or anything like that uh by this change.

There is obviously going to be a component of uh you know, things happen, um bureaucracy being what it is, as important as it is, does occasionally move slowly in a way that frustrates people, and we want to be cognizant of that and make sure that we are not disenfranchising any of our residents.

Absolutely, I appreciate that.

Uh and you got ahead of my other question was uh that while we have certainly had some legislative liaisons that considered themselves the 12th counselor, uh city staff are not actually members of the body.

So uh so this would also apply to uh items that are submitted, for example, by the mayor for consideration or uh by city staff for consideration.

Yes.

That is correct, Mr.

Chair, yes.

All right.

Well, I feel good about this.

Uh I appreciate the explanation, uh, Council Davis.

And I I'm comfortable moving forward with this, because as you said, it's basically codifying what you're currently doing.

Um are there any other uh any any more discussion for members?

Uh I personally am uh prepared to entertain a motion to to approve.

So moved.

All right, Councillor Davis, you get to move to approve your own item.

Uh all right.

Well, uh looking for any discussion on that item or on that motion.

Uh seeing no discussion on that motion, let's lay that item on the table to recommend approval in a single vote at the end of the meeting.

Wonderful.

I love getting one out of the box.

So the item number three has already been taken up.

So that brings us in the order of business to item number four, which is uh item two five one six eight six, amending chapter eight, article three of the code of ordinances.

Oh no, that was the second hand dealer license one.

Uh and the item three was uh actually, so item three was the order to work with that's 25149.

So uh we could probably mark that work complete since the city clerk has in fact been working with uh so let's mark number three work complete.

And um chair Scott, excuse me, just quickly, that was referred for recommendation, so we do need to give it a disposition.

So if we could place it on file.

Okay, we can place that on file then.

Thank you.

Uh place that on file.

We will keep the uh the ordinance, that's item number four in committee.

We already got that disposition.

Uh, which brings us to item 251762 that the code of ordinances be amended to prohibit the use of taxpayer funds for self-promotion.

Uh this is a fun one.

Counselor Davis, was this yours or was this uh counselor uh counselor Wilson's?

Oh, it was the it was the two of you joined at the end of 2025.

So counselor.

Mr.

Chair, thank you.

Um this is an ordinance that I've had uh kicking around in my brain for a number of years.

Um and uh you know, uh chalk it up to five finally got get finally getting off my butt and and asking uh uh analyst Salisbury to to help me out uh with uh to put something together.

Um and uh it it I think it's it's worth noting that another piece of that um that sort of motivation was um I at the time then the uh the incoming mayor um uh having had that conversation with him and him saying, I completely agree.

Do you do you want to put it in together with me?

And I said, Well, I think that would be great.

Um you know, to because uh as with well, Ms.

Chat, as just about all of our artists, if if the mayor doesn't want to doesn't want to do it, then we have a hard time making it happen.

Um and so I I'm I was happy that that then counselor Wilson was uh it was in agreement on on the concept.

Um there may be some gray area around the edges as we get down this that I will uh uh look forward to exploring with our our current mayor.

Um, but but for the most part, um, you know, I I think that the fundamental principle here is I just got sick of seeing mayor's names plastered all over everything.

Um and you know, all throughout the year, and and gosh gee, especially on those odd numbered years, it just seemed like mayor's names cropped up.

So I can't figure out why it was on those particular odd number years that mayors' names just seem to seem to be in front of me all the time on on city communications and city printed signs and banners and everything else.

And um, I guess I guess that just kind of um you know I got stuck under my saddle, uh if you will.

So um so the intent here is to is to put an end to that, um, to to uh uh make it uh to ordain that um none of us, the mayor included, uh will effectively have you know have the ability to to use city resources for the sort of personal what what what the intent is, what what is sort of this sort of personal promotion.

The intent is what is sort of this sort of personal promotion.

If you think about the former banner that used to be for uh for for the Greek festival, Mayor Curtitone.

Big letters right underneath it.

You know, press releases that said the office of mayor so and so would say blah, blah, blah.

You know, we just we we know it's the city of Somerville, right?

It's the city, it's the taxpayers who are presenting these things at the end of the day.

Um so that's the intent here.

Hopefully, pretty straightforward.

Um I'm sure folks could poke holes and things that I and I I I sheepishly I see Lia Zon Radazi with her hand raised.

So I hope I hope it's something in agreement.

But if we've missed something here, then uh I'll be happy to hear that input as well.

But that's the idea, Mr.

Chair.

Um, and thank you for giving the opportunity to explain it.

Uh all right.

Well, let's see here.

Uh Liaison Radassi, you had an update from uh the comms department or from other city staff.

Through the chair, thank you.

Um I am not disagreeing with any through you to anything that Councillor Davis said.

Uh um then Councillor Wilson did uh co-sponsor this um and is very much on board with this.

Um I'm just hoping on behalf of the administration that we can have maybe another meeting just to touch base with comms and maybe have some offline conversations with counselor Davis as the sponsor to make sure that we're not inadvertently uh looping in something and and making sure that we're just creating the best legislation possible um without any inadvertent uh consequences.

But yeah, thank you.

All right.

Well, I mean, this um so council Davis, this ordinance has been in uh now for six months.

Uh it has been before the city council.

Um I guess I'm curious as to uh how you would like to proceed.

I know our comms department is massive and has frequently been uh let's say one of the one of the primary organs of this kind of communication.

Uh what what would be your intention here, sir?

Uh thank you for asking, Mr.

Chair, um, and through you uh to Lia Zonradazi.

Um thank you.

Um I I well, I think the fact that it's been in here, sitting here for six months, um is uh you know could could could go both ways, but I I think you know the fact that I don't when I'm when I'm coming down Beach Street off of Mass Av um to get back to my house on Highland, I I I now see uh you know, drive slow save lives instead of a mayor's name plastered under the sign that says welcome to the city of Somerville.

So um, you know, the Mill Wilson administration is already uh very clearly, in my opinion, um complying with the spirit of of this ordinance in in many ways.

Um and if if comms has some questions or because I I mentioned in my initial statement, there is some gray air.

I think there's a little nuance.

So I would be absolutely thrilled to have that conversation.

And I think it's I I I um appreciate and respect the uh the request to sort of uh try our best to make sure we're on the same page.

Um we might not be.

There still might be some gray area we fight about, but that's okay.

We're different branches of the government, and that's all right.

Um, but but by all means, Mr.

Chair, I have no problem um keeping this one in committee if there's uh if there's a good conversation to have to make sure that we um we all are aligned, that no problem from my end.

All right.

Well then uh I guess I would hope that uh those conversations can be arranged by IGA in the intervening few weeks and that uh hopefully we'll have the opportunity to move on this soon.

Counselor Streso, I see your hand, you're recognized.

Oh thank you.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, I think if we're going to keep it um in committee, and because right, I get that there's uh a list of some things.

So um yeah, we don't need 8,000 tote bags with mayor's names on.

I think we can be in agreement with that.

But I um I would like uh through you, Mr.

Chair, to uh Liazon Medasi.

We could have like a longer list of of just other items.

How it how it can be um how how it could be impacted.

I don't have a problem with this uh ordinance, but I to her point as well.

I I want to see exactly how extensive it can get.

And what exactly does social media mean?

Does that mean that um I'm opposing this idea uh just out loud thinking, but does that does that mean any Instagram page?

Does it mean a video?

What how how deep do we go with this?

Uh I I want just want to know that too.

Thank you.

All right.

Sounds good.

Uh Counselor Davis, before we put this to bed, do you have a response?

Yeah, just just briefly, Mr.

Chair, uh, and uh through you to to Councillor Strazu, um thank you.

Yeah, to could uh another excellent point.

Um as I said, I I anticipate there's gonna be there's no way to be perfectly clear on all this, right?

So my my goal and my objective is not to have a perfectly fine line.

Um I think all of these questions are great.

I mean, they're the kind of things we should think about.

Um and without question, even if we to whatever extent we do come to uh you know as clear as possible in agreement, there's still gonna be some cops, some stuff that that clearly is in violation.

And that's okay, right?

The the idea here isn't not isn't a gotcha.

It's a you know, and and I have if you know I have sent the mayor many many pictures by text over the past few months of like, hey, here's look at this one, look at this one.

And it's okay, I get it.

We've got you decades of inertia on these things, and it's gonna pop off and that's pop up, and that's totally cool, right?

We're just we're trying to get to a better place overall.

Um none of this is intended to be, you know, any, like I said, any kind of a gotcha or anything like that.

So um, you know, for the public's expectation for every expectation, I completely anticipate that you know if and when we do pass this ordinance, there will still be effectively violations that that happen, uh and that's okay, right?

We're that that those will be learning experiences, those will be uh, you know, uh opportunities to clarify uh everyone's intent um and and nothing more, nothing beyond that.

Um obviously hypothetically there could be a different scenario, but but uh certainly in this administration, I don't anticipate that being the case.

And so I look forward to uh to having any conversations we we can and need to and um and then get this in place, Chair.

All right.

Last bite at the apple, Councilor Streso.

Last bite.

Thank you.

Uh so I agreed.

I uh threw you to uh counselor Davis.

Yeah, I I I hear I hear your points, and you know, like I said, I don't I don't disagree.

Um I think it's also um I think it's also really thoughtful to if we do have like 30,000 water bottles with mayor blah blah blah.

Um that's wasteful if that's the if we have one mayor who's no longer mayor, what do we do with 30,000 water bottles with mayor blah blah blah.

But I do think I do like the idea of um when we enter Somerville, uh mayor blah blah blah welcomes you or their our the mayor's name on our entrance to welcome to Somerville.

That is one case, right?

I think it could be useful for visitors.

There's a purpose behind that.

Um but right, like some of the smaller stuff with press releases go.

Yeah, we don't need 30,000 press releases necessarily saying Mayor Wilson says this and Mayor Wilson says that.

Um I don't know, I leave that to the comms professionals to figure out what that means.

But yeah, I went a little bit more detail on this um as we get along.

Thanks a lot.

All right.

Uh so I I will keep this one in committee.

I will encourage uh IgA to broker discussions with uh both Councillor Shezzle and Counselor Davis in the in the intervening two weeks.

Is that something you can do, Council uh Liaison Ridesi?

Uh Mr.

Jerry, yes, I think that is something I can do.

All right, thank you.

Uh I'm reminded of several conversations I need to have with comms.

So maybe we'll put this on that list.

All right.

So let's keep this one in committee.

Um and then that brings us to the final item before us this evening that this council amended to rule 24 by requiring a majority vote of the council before a counselor can be removed from a committee.

This is a uh legacy counselor Burnley order.

Uh which was uh intended, I suppose, to provide some check on uh the leader of the city council's ability to reassign committees uh at their discretion.

Uh so uh we have it before us.

It it was still sitting in committee.

Uh as it turns out, this circumstance didn't come up where uh where it was felt to be necessary.

I suppose we have the the current sitting president here.

Uh do you have any thoughts about this before we uh choose a disposition for it?

Count uh counselor Davis.

Uh uh happy to share uh my views, Mr.

Chair, uh, since since you asked.

Um, I I my immediate thought is that um this would um create uh uh uh uh some significant hurdles in just sort of the day-to-day practicality.

Uh at times there there are several times, several if not many times throughout the year where um, especially on our our committees with three folks, um, you know, where counselor too is away, or there's a a really you know, it's a specific item that um that one counselor um uh you know had submitted and that council is not on the committee, and one of the committee members is away, and so you know the request will come to me to uh to replace that that counselor on the committee for for the purpose of just that evening.

Um, it obviously just to meet quorum.

Sometimes we have to we have to go to the go to the bullpen.

Um and that I don't know practically how how that would work with with his ordinance um uh at all.

Um I I do understand and and I want to you know on and respect what I what I uh assume is the attention the intent.

Um, you know, it's a it's a pretty pretty significant power that the president of the city council has to uh you know to to replace and remove folks from committee um as they wish.

Um now there is of course a check on uh there because the there's a process for removing the president.

Um but I I'm not aware of as as you noted, uh uh I think you know, Mr.

Chair, that the other that the scenario didn't come up.

I'm not aware of there being um and maybe there maybe there has been, I guess as I'm saying this out loud, maybe I just wasn't aware of it.

Things could have happened.

But um, you know, I I would hope that anyone sitting in in the presidency would um would have you know the the the enough respect for for their their colleagues that they wouldn't you know willy-nilly um you know remove or replace folks on on committees.

Um to me that's just uh it's a fundamental obligation requirement of the job.

Um and it's not I I said a respect for their colleagues, it's really a respect for the for the voters, right?

Um the voters, our constituents put all of us in these offices.

And I think it um I think the president needs to respect that and um and you know, undertake the committee assignments um with that very much in mind.

And so in my opinion, that that is all the check I need at least um to make sure I'm trying to do this as fairly as as I'm uh able to.

Um and I I you know I I suspect that that that's that's the case with uh with others who have held this uh this role as well.

So um I don't see a need for this.

I do see I do have concerns, as I mentioned, if it were if we're put into place, I think it would it would be uh an undue burden on our ability to to do the city's business.

Um so you know, my my preference would be to uh whatever disposition is necessary to um to to not uh move forward with this change, Mr.

Chair.

All right.

Well, we certainly could place the item on file.

Uh, but I will go to counselors Ewan Camp and then Strezo, and then I'll provide my thoughts as well.

Counselor Ewan Campen.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, you know, ultimately I I'm I'm also in support of placing this on file.

I concur with what Counselor Davis just said.

I think I really understand the motivation here.

You know, you look we often hear descriptions of how statehouse leadership works, where if you vote the wrong way, leadership will strip you from a committee chairmanship and cut your salary in half by doing so.

And I don't think that's good.

You know, I I don't think that power should be centralized in such a way that it can be, you know, used to uh just kind of control the behavior of other legislators.

Um but I I don't think that is really in play here.

Um, maybe this is biased for my experience, but my my experience in the presidency was how do I put this?

It was often like hard to find people who had the capacity to fill all the various committee seats.

It was very rarely an issue of uh you know, trying to bully someone off a committee.

That never happened.

It was much more kind of begging people to please serve on a committee because we need, you know, these are these are jobs that need to get done, and we all have a ton of work and we all have a lot of responsibilities already.

Um so just in reality, you know, I'm I'm not super concerned about that.

And and as Counselor Davis said, I just I I think there's already a really good check on the presidency, which is that we they have to get re-elected every single term.

Um yeah, and I I just I think that functionally what this would mean is that it even if there were a way to kind of wordsmith it so that it was just to avoid kind of vindictive removal from a committee unilaterally, I just think that it would mean that no one could ever be taken off a committee.

I I think that's what the functional, you know, just knowing how the legislative process works.

I think that's how it would actually play out, and I'd be quite concerned about that.

Um, just knowing that there certainly could be plenty of reasons why why it might need to happen for totally whatever the opposite of untoward reasons is toward reasons.

Um so for all that, I I respect where this is coming from, but I don't uh wouldn't support it.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you, Counselor Ewan Camp and Counselor Stresa.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I agreed with my colleagues.

Uh I will not support this.

I think that I hear what uh counselor Davis said, and that makes total sense.

So I would I will not move to place it on a file because I want to hear what you have to say, uh, Mr.

Chair, but uh I definitely want it to be placed on file.

Uh or to move it or whatever at a later date, uh or not later date, but later minute after you're done speaking and hearing from us or from we get to hear from you.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, uh Councillor Streso.

Uh so I appreciate Councilor Ewan Camp and bringing up the speaker of the Mass State House because that is, of course, the preeminent example.

Certainly, no president would ever excuse uh abuse their executive authority, right?

Either Mariana Rivera, current speaker of the State House, or Saldamassi, previous speaker who was convicted of conspiracy and fraud, nor Tom Fenneran, the previous speaker convicted of obstruction of justice, nor uh Charlie Flaherty, the previous speaker before that, who was also convicted this time of tax evasion.

I'm sure none of them would ever use their executive authority.

Um I guess my point is that norms are not a guarantee of good behavior.

And uh for a many an hour sitting at the knee of uh counselor Bill White, uh, I heard I heard tell of many shenanigans related to uh committee assignments um that at the time were considered the norm.

So I can appreciate the uh I get I can appreciate the urge here.

Um and I guess my ultimate uh take on it is that any action of the president can be challenged uh by the members and can be uh overturned uh by by a vote of the members, although I'm not certain that a president, I'm not certain we have a provision for uh removal of a president, uh Councilor Davis.

Did you you said there was a provision for that?

I couldn't find that in the rules of the city council.

Could you remind me?

No, ms.

Chair, I I I think I probably didn't articulate that as I intended.

I I I was referring to the fact that it's a one-year term.

And and therefore, you know, if someone wanted to continue on, then they did to get to they did have the votes.

Ah, well, we would certainly not want to extend the term of the executive.

That would remove them farther from accountability.

Wait.

Sorry, what were we talking about?

Oh, right.

Okay, so uh I you know what I'm inclined, given that it is a uh given that it is a one-year term, and given that there is a lot of shuffling of committees, that does happen for very legitimate uh logistical reasons.

Uh I'm also inclined to put this uh item uh on file.

Uh, but appreciate that we've had a conversation about the importance of adhering to norms and the expectations that we have of how the council will conduct itself, including the president of said council.

So with that said, uh we'll go ahead and mark that item placed on file.

Uh Madam Clerk, I believe that's correct disposition for it.

Correct, we can do that.

And then uh all of the rest of our items have had dispositions assigned to them or uh have been laid on the table for a vote at the conclusion of the meeting, correct?

Correct.

I can run through that if you'd like before we adjourn.

Sure.

Uh Counselor Streso.

Thank you.

Um I'm I'm uh manually raising my hand today.

Not I know, and and I know we're done.

Um, but quick procedural question.

Oh my um I forgot to raise a point.

I know that we um we we placed uh one of the items from move for approval, uh the rules change uh of the city council um norms.

I'm fine with that, but uh I did forget to bring up a quick point.

Uh logistics, can we quickly uh are are we able procedurally to bring it forward quickly?

Um I don't have any problem with passing the rules.

I want to make that clear, but there was a point that I feel like if this is the moment to discuss it before it gets back to regular council.

So I want to I want to take this quick moment to discuss it.

Uh what procedurally, how can we procedurally bring that back forth before we vote on it?

Right now it's simply been laid on the table, so we can simply pick that item back up off the table to hear your uh considerations before we uh take it up for a vote.

So I believe you're referring to number rules of the city council, yeah.

Um there were a few of those.

I just want to make sure we get the right one.

You're right.

The the general uh you're right.

Uh the chair, I think it would be mission deadline.

Correct.

Correct.

Okay.

Item number two, that's 260354.

We'll pick that item off off the table.

What is your uh what's your consideration?

What's your deliberation?

Thank you, really quick.

Um, thank you.

Oh, okay.

We talk about uh uh council members uh needing to be on screen if we're virtual.

However, should we make a a adjustment there's a Vincent sighting?

Okay.

Um uh should we make an adjustment uh because I don't think it's mentioned in this in the rules that if, say for instance, uh counselor cannot, so I'm having like Wi-Fi issues tonight.

So I'm having like Wi-Fi issues tonight.

I can't be on screen, but I could still be present uh verbally.

Should that be considered?

Okay, no, you say or video is not reasonably correct.

Well, it would be clearly definitely heard.

Okay, so being heard, I'm sorry, I'm going into rule five, and I know we're talking about this, but I was wondering if if this is worthy taking up.

Um what?

Forget it.

Nope, forget it.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, I was gonna say it's rule five.

We can we can certainly go to rule five another day.

I was just I was just gonna say we we thought about that exact thing, and I raised it, and I that's why we wrote it the way we did.

So it's a good one.

Thank you.

Excellent point, and we covered it.

Thank you.

Yep, yep.

Got it.

Thank you.

All right, we're done.

All right.

Um Madam Clerk, if you would like to run through the dispositions of items, including the ones still remaining to be voted on.

So we have agenda items three and six placed on file.

We have agenda items one, four, and five, captain committee, and that leaves us with agenda item two laid on the table for approval.

Well, then let's pick up item number two and a motion to adjourn, and we can take those votes uh simultaneously here.

Okay.

So motion to approve agenda item two and on adjournment.

Counselor Davis.

Yes.

Counselor Mbaugh.

Counselor Ewan Campen.

Yes.

Counselor Shrezo?

Yes.

Counselor Scott.

Yes.

And before we actually adjourn, uh, before we before we cap type tabulate that and uh call for adjournment, I just want to say uh counselor uh did have to leave uh a little bit early for this to attend uh his eldest child's performance at the high school.

So we appreciate his attendance at start.

Uh also want to say at our next meeting uh May 19th, it had been the intention to bring up the rental registry after conversation with members, I believe we will continue uh to intend to bring that item before us.

I have heard from city staff that they intend to return with amended uh surveillance technology annual report uh based on the suggestions of this committee and a an amended impact report for crime tracer.

Uh so I do anticipate those also being on our agenda.

If you have other items that you'd like to make sure get onto that agenda, uh, because we only have a few meetings between now and the start of budget season, uh, please do reach out to the chair and I'll be happy to work with scheduling those.

Uh so with that comment made, the results of that roll call vote, Madam Clerk.

That item is approved and we are adjourned.

All right, thank you very much, everybody.

Have a good evening.