Hello, everyone.

My name is John Link.

I'm the chair of the school buildings facilities and maintenance committee.

I use the Yee Him pronouns.

It is 6 13.

We are starting late due to some technical issues.

Thank you very much to our clerk's office for powering through and sorting it out.

We're going to call this meeting to order pursuant to the uh pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025.

This meeting of the city council will be conducted by remote participation.

We'll post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on uh the city of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

With that, um can we establish quorum, please?

Yeah, we can.

Counselor Scott.

Counselor Saeed.

Here Chair Link.

Here.

All right.

With that, we have two members present, so we do have quorum.

Wonderful.

Uh we'll take a brief recess.

Uh so that oh, and we have to um all right.

So uh I guess we do have to do a I forget.

Do we have to actually vote on the do we have a roll call in the recess?

Not to recess, but when you guys come back.

Come back, that's it.

Got it.

Make sure no one gets lost.

We don't need another roll call.

Thank you, Chair Link.

Um my name is Ron Bitone, Chair of the Uh same school building facilities and maintenance subcommittee for the school committee.

I will also establish quorum.

Um Liz Eldridge, are you here?

Present.

Laura Petone, are you here?

I'm here.

And I am here.

We have quorum to do business.

I will turn it back over to Chair Link.

All right, thank you very much, Chair.

And let's uh re-establish quorum.

All right, let's do it.

Uh counselor Scott.

Counselor Say here.

Chair Link.

Still here.

All right.

With that, we still have quorum.

Everyone made it back.

Wonderful.

All right.

Um, unless there is uh any disagreement, we're going to um table the uh minutes for approval at the end of the meeting.

Uh and go straight into uh item number two, then um.

So this is uh item two, ID 260241.

That the administration provide the committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates on the Massachusetts School Building Authority MSBA process for the Winter Hill and Brown Schools.

Good evening, Chair Link.

Um members of the committees for your record, Richard Rach, Director of Infrastructure and Asset Management.

Um, not any big updates since our last meeting of these committees.

Uh the MSBA continues their formal review of the preliminary design program, and the tech team continues work on the other portions of the preferred schematic report.

Um just you know, so everyone knows and and you know is uh aware.

We'll be mobilizing uh drilling rigs around the uh the building uh to do test borings to inform foundation design, um, see what's under there because there had been another school and some other buildings that were demolished for the winter hill.

Um, of course, our experience with the high school says we will probably miss any hazardous materials with our test borings.

We only discovered it once we knock down the building and start digging.

Um it'll also inform uh design for uh ground source geothermal, uh, should we decide to go in that direction?

Um so we'll we'll be going deep enough and put in monitoring wells that we understand what the depth of um groundwater is and that that sort of thing.

So these uh borings will serve multiple purposes.

Um so you'll you'll see that uh um deployed uh this week and next, or we're running out of this week, so I guess it's gonna be next week.

Um other than that, I would the team also had another uh community um engagement since our last meeting.

Uh this one was held at the tab uh and try to focus a little bit more on parking and site conditions.

Um I haven't got a readout.

I just got back from travel myself.

Um, but uh that that was another meeting that happened.

Um, but otherwise things are are moving along nicely.

Well, welcome back and thanks for for making it to this.

Uh I guess my my only question is uh around those borings.

So um I guess how many how many borings will there be?

Um is it uh how loud is it gonna be?

Uh I hope we told the the people around.

Um, and then I guess just like what do we um expect in terms of uh how drastically or not drastically that can change things.

It's not really going to change anything.

It's just going to inform our designs.

So I think we get like five or six borings.

But no, I've been around boring riggs myself.

So I just kind of don't hear them anymore.

But yeah, we have let the neighbors know that that this is happening.

We'd be doing it during normal construction hours anyway, to three or seven to three.

That was my last question, actually.

Because we just had an experience with uh some neighbors over here with the um with the DOT where they were doing borings in the middle of the night.

They did they the DOT deliberately did off hours for their own operations and detours.

We're just gonna do normal uh 7 a.m.

to 3 p.m.

shifts.

Um I guess um chair between it to you.

Thanks.

Any questions from our side?

I'm not seeing any.

Uh oh, sorry.

Uh member elder, go ahead.

Oh, good uh through the chair.

Um quick question for you.

Um I know that there was a meeting recently at the tab um talking more about community design.

Um I wasn't aware of the parking and site conditions one, and I know that's been a hot topic of conversation.

Um, do you have any more information or will we have any more information soon about um that piece of things?

Uh yeah, uh let me get back to you on that.

Uh the um the design team will uh prepare uh something in time for our next um uh uh school building committee meeting uh or uh yeah, which is when is it?

Uh Monday.

Yeah.

So the the school building committee will will have uh a meeting on the eighth, and so we'll have materials on that and uh we can distribute those out.

Okay.

Um seeing no other questions on our side, we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

Thank you.

Um we will um just leave this one in committee as we do and move on to item three, uh ID 26-0709, uh, that the administration report to the school committee and this council on indoor air quality conditions at the Kennedy school, specifically regarding mold and humidity levels and outline steps uh being taken to address them.

This one was uh also from last time.

I think we were waiting on some uh reports on actual the site visit and um processes that were might be created.

Um Commissioner Wiseman, I see you're here.

I thank you, Chair.

Uh Eric Wiseman, commissioner of DPW.

Yeah, so then since our last meeting, um I met with the school department to outline a protocol for handling air quality um concerns uh and requests and complaints.

Um in brief, that process would be um defining an intake uh at the school department level of these sort of complaints, um, then in a process of information gathering on the part of the school department about the nature of the request, uh, what the incident was that that is causing the request.

Um if the school department deems it necessary, we would then the department of public works would conduct uh an on-site investigation.

That would be a site inspection, uh, that might be a visual inspection, smell inspection, um moisture detection.

It sort of depends on the the nature of the concern.

Uh sometimes uh that would be pretty unnecessary because you know, moisture or mold or something might be immediately visible, and then it would immediately go into a remediation uh process.

Um and then after uh that investigation or remediation would be necessary or was completed, uh the school department would then determine um based on criteria that they're working on what would be the next step and whether an air quality test would be necessary.

So um that's so like the broad um the broad steps of the process.

We have not, or the school department hasn't formally defined what would trigger uh one outcome or another, but that's where we are on that.

Um as for the Kennedy school itself, we did a couple of site visits after the meeting.

We went to uh several classrooms uh and also like looked through 311 requests and we didn't we did not find a lot of requests about air quality.

Um and um, but uh based on the conversation last meeting and asking around in the school, we checked out several uh storage spaces, including I think the one mentioned in the meeting.

Um we didn't see a ton of evidence of um uh mold or anything like that, but um, we do have areas now to keep an eye on.

I think there was some staining from an old valve leak as part of construction that we replaced.

It was just a ceiling tile um in one of the classrooms that was identified.

Um so that's like something that we're going to continue to keep an eye on.

Thank you.

So just just to be clear, you said you didn't see a ton of evidence, but it sounds like so those.

We didn't see it there.

We didn't see evidence of mold in the in the storage space spaces that were identified.

Um I I assumed that you just meant that you saw things like the staining, which was maybe not necessary.

Yeah, that was in a different spot, but yes, yeah, we didn't see anything in that storage space.

We didn't observe anything.

I mean, I didn't want to say you know the person had no reason to make that statement, but we could not find anything.

Yeah.

Sorry for not speaking more specifically there.

I don't know, just wanted to make sure I understood.

Uh I I uh I don't have my I'm not in in the Kennedy School, so I don't really know how to keep pushing on this if I need to.

Um so I'm gonna leave it to Chair Baton and the school committee.

Thank you, Chair Link.

Um I'm wondering if member Pitone has any information.

Yeah, go ahead.

Go go ahead, Laura.

Oh, okay, sorry.

I'm so sorry.

Uh you can hear me?

That is a neat trick.

Yes, we can hear you.

Yes, I'm I'm on my phone and the computer because I didn't completely transition.

Anyway, um I was happened to be at the Kennedy the day that um Mike Bowler was there and Danielle, who is not on the call.

She is in the call.

Yes, she's and I just wanted to compliment both of them for their desire to try to get to the root cause of things.

It was they were very thorough.

I didn't go through every single room with them, but I happened to go into the storage room.

Uh that one of the ones that was behind the um stage.

Uh, and we had a really you know good conversation and um uh Mr.

Bowler talked to the custodian about certain areas to try to keep that space a little clean and um you know there's a lot of stuff in that space, and there's also like a heater.

It's not part of the full like system-wide HVAC, but it's like a heating unit.

And so there was some mention at some point about a smell in that room, and I I kind of like was guessing, and again, this is not facts, but uh that it might have been from like when you run a heater like that that's maybe dusty, it can really not smell good.

So anyway, that's just something I'm only bringing up so that uh Director Wiseman can kind of flag that for himself.

Um I'm sure Mr.

Bowler had already mentioned that, but um, and there was a teacher in particular that I don't know if Miss Barry wants to speak to it or if we've talked enough about this, but um that they had been concerned specifically, so they went and tried to track them down.

So I don't know how that went, but I just wanted to compliment and think that there was clearly uh energy trying to follow up on this and and really positive intentions.

Uh Ms.

Barry.

Thank you for you, Chair.

I am Janelle Barry facilities safety and transportation coordinator for the district.

Um we were able to go in that teacher's classroom and we did some investigation and found that there, like Commissioner Weisman said, is a valve that had leaked onto a sailing tile just causing staining.

Um there was no other evidence of black mold or anything like that.

Um what I have reiterated to school principals is to make sure their staff is reporting any evidence uh or what they think is evidence of staining, molding, water damage, things of that nature, um, to either themselves or the school secretary so that they can put it in as a 3-1-1.

And from that point, we will do an investigation um questionnaire that I will speak with either the principal or the staff member that has reported it, and then we will go through the proper channels with Commissioner Weissman and his team on further investigating.

Fantastic.

I love a good process.

So this sounds like the right process.

We don't it it sounds like a little bit of a mystery with respect to what this was before.

It definitely doesn't sound like the nature of the complaints that I was hearing from folks, but um, you know, we need to get those three-on-ones in.

So um we have that in place.

This is a good a good news story as far as I'm concerned.

And um would love to see uh it tackle you know the next iteration because something will go wrong at some point.

Um Commissioner Weissman.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

And I just do just want to say that we will continue to uh keep an eye on it.

Um we'll be especially sensitive to any complaints about the Kennedy School.

Um, and we'll absolutely check out that heater and see if that's something that just needs to maybe be taken apart and cleaned.

Follow up with that.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Thank you for your support.

Really appreciate it.

Um I don't see any other comments, so we'll go back to you, Chair Link.

Thank you, Chair Patron.

Um, yep.

Thank you.

Also, uh Commissioner Weissman.

Uh it's just it's great to actually see things get raised and then uh addressed in a timely manner.

It's fantastic.

So I really appreciate that.

Um so we'll mark this one as work complete, I believe, uh then and uh move on.

Um that brings us to agenda item four, ID 26-0710.

Um that the commissioner of public works and the director of infrastructure and access act asset management update this council and the school committee about safety improvements to security cameras, enclosed schoolyard fencing, balconies, and other infrastructure at the Argenziano school.

I'm not sure who would like to talk about this.

Commissioner Weissman.

Uh thank you, Chair.

I'm happy to talk about the first parts of them.

Um our staff went on a walkthrough with uh Danielle Barry and school staff uh to look at the issue of the cameras uh as well as the enclosed schoolyard fencing.

So we we took that feedback and our scheduling work for those two items.

Uh the these issues were will both be dealt with after the school year.

So the the enclosed schoolyard fencing should be completed um before by the end of June, and the cameras should go in sometime this summer.

Uh great so can I ask so I I saw the um the submission for the the defense uh kind of diagram.

Um my rudimentary diagram, I apologize.

Yeah, it got the job done.

Um so uh I'm curious when it says uh locking uh you know, double gate locking single gate.

So um what kind are we talking about?

What kind of lock yeah?

So so I I think this is a thank you, Chair.

This is a a standard chain link fence uh that will have double swinging doors so that um as necessary vehicles can access the school yard.

Um and then during recess, the staff will be able to secure the gate.

Uh and uh then the the parts of the schoolyard that are not um not marked as locking gates are just uh chain link fence between the the portions of the wall.

Okay.

See I um so this is this is one place I'm intimately familiar with because I'm I'm there uh every day with my my kids.

So I'm so just to I just want to double check that I'm RC and Crooky.

So the the idea is like that these because the this playground is also where all the drop-off happens, of course.

Um that so like kids and parents would be able to get in and out freely um in the in the morning and in the evening.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

Yes, that is my my understanding.

And then during recess, the gates may be closed.

Yes.

All right.

And then my my only other um I guess question runs um is just the so that there's the two there's I guess there's one two, three.

There's four so there's four fences that are just gonna be fences and no gate.

Um I know that two of those, like it's they're kind of dead space, they weren't meant to be traveled through in the first place.

The other two were actually meant to be um points of of ingress and egress.

Uh is it so that we're just kind of shutting those down though.

Uh that is yeah, thank you, Chair.

That's my understanding, yes.

Okay.

Uh and then my my last question is are we uh so it's a chain link fence.

Um are we I guess I'm just curious, are we I've got uh you know almost five-year-old and a seven-year-old, and one of the things that they love more than anything is a good chain link fence to climb on.

Um so are we um are we sure this is accomplishing what we want?

Um, and then we're not just gonna have kids on the the other side of the fence that we have to chase down.

Uh you know, uh uh chair, I I believe this is the standard fencing used in our school yards.

Uh I don't think it's it's an unusual treatment around the schools, but I could get clarity on that if you would like.

Okay.

Um those I think are my questions, thank you.

Um for now anyway.

Um I see a lot of hands up, so I'm going to uh um hand it over to Chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Link.

Um I'll defer to my colleagues first.

So I see Laura and then Liz.

Laura, go ahead.

Thank you.

Through you.

Um first of all, glad to see this.

Exciting that this is going in sooner rather than later.

Uh I just want to make sure I had it had an opportunity to see the diagram, but there are the at either end there's the double locking gates.

And then are there multiple single gates or just that one by the basketball?

It's hard for me.

I just see little red lines, and I just didn't know what those were.

Yeah, through the chairs, sorry.

Again, sorry for the diagram.

Um we don't typically get architectural drawings when we work with uh fencing companies, but um and so this was my understanding based on uh conversations with uh facility supervisor bowler who conducted the walkthrough.

Uh I believe there's only one single gate.

Um I could clarify that though.

And may I have to do a follow-up.

And this is something that the district has seen and is comfortable with, and the like specifically the building leader, the principal in terms of what they're trying to accomplish.

Danielle?

Hi, yeah.

So we have done approximately three to four walkthroughs of this area um to make sure that Principal Soto and her staff are completely happy with the design.

And on our walkthrough on Monday, I think I probably asked her five times if she was absolutely positive this was the right fit for the needs of the students.

So she is totally happy and totally on board.

And we appreciate the fast response that we've received from DPW to come and meet us every time I call them and say, hey, can we do this one more time, please?

So we really appreciate them being on board.

That's fantastic.

Laura, anything else there?

I have another okay.

All right, we'll get back in line there.

Umdridge.

Thank you.

Um through the chair.

Quick question.

Um in terms of the height of the concrete, like that that the uh fencing is being attached to.

Um I'm not sure how tall.

I know if I remember remembering correctly, and maybe it like varies in certain areas.

Um is there have we looked at that just to make sure that there isn't any um concerns about that piece of things?

Uh through the chair, uh I'm not sure the specific height of the different sections of the wall, but um my understanding is that this was the desired um desired layout.

Liz, do you have a follow-up?

Okay.

Um I actually have a follow-up on on that.

It is the height of the fencing going to match the height of the cement wall.

Uh thank you, Chair.

I'm not I'm not certain.

Um I I imagine the height of the fencing will be consistent if the if the wall undulates, I imagine uh there'll be a uniform height to the fence, I would guess.

Okay.

Um and can you describe the locking mechanism?

Is it is it like a lock lock, or is it just a sort of closing mechanism, and someone who wants to open it can just open it.

So uh chair, most fences have like a standard uh closing mechanism that can be locked.

I think uh locking and unlocking that fence during the school day would be at the discretion of the school leadership.

All right, that makes sense.

Um we'll go back in order here.

Um member Pitone.

Thank you.

Um that was the start of my question.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Beatone.

And my follow-up is I just want to make sure that I understand.

I'm assuming that at the end of the day and on the weekends, none of this is gonna be closed or locked.

So that's just how all of our parks are set up.

So unless that the principal during the school day locks it, it won't be locked.

The chair, that's my understanding as well.

And that was discussed that it would not be locked.

Danielle.

That is what we have agreed upon that um principal soto will take the responsibility of closing her and her team, not just her solely, but um closing the two ends during the school hours, and then she will in the afternoon at dismiss right before dismissal time, and those would be open.

And would remain open until the following school day.

All right.

I'm seeing some nodding there, so we'll move on to the next question.

Member Eldridge.

Um, thank you.

Um I don't not sure who the best person to address this question is.

Um I'm I know that there was a couple of open houses that were done this week for AIM families to come from Winterhill and check out the new space.

I'm wondering if there was any discussion amongst the parents just about the fencing in particular, in terms of if they thought that it would meet the needs of their kiddos and every kid has a little bit of a different profile.

And um just wondering if that perspective was um if we solicited feedback from some of the families.

Um maybe you have that information, and maybe you don't, I'm not sure.

Through you, Chair.

Yeah, go ahead.

I haven't heard any feedback as of yet.

Um, but if we do, we'll be certain to address that with the families and take their concerns into great consideration.

Okay.

Um if I can also just uh opine for a moment, you know.

I think every kid has right unique needs, it's not just those in the AIM program.

Um so I hope the community, anyone listening will understand that um uh, you know, while elopement is a particular concern with kids on um with autism, you know, any kid can decide to take a run for it.

Um so you know, if your kid is a runner, uh, you know, I hope you're bringing that to your school leaders and make sure that they have um plans to and systems in place to address that.

And I'm positive they do because this is a a common issue.

Um Liz, did you have something else you wanted to add there?

Yeah, just a quick follow-up.

Um if families have questions or concerns or feedback or suggestions, where what is the best way for them to like who should they reach out to?

Is it uh directly to the principal, or is there another uh best way for them to be in touch?

I would say the principal is the best way, and then they can direct their questions that they can't answer to the district.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Awesome.

Um member Patone.

Okay, sorry.

Thank you.

Through you.

Uh Did we did I miss something about balconies and what the status of the balcony?

No, you haven't missed anything.

I don't think we've hit on that yet.

So that's my question is just what's the status.

I know that was something that may need some time designed.

So I'm curious where we are with the balconies.

For anybody who doesn't know, there's like an a balcony with a fence that overlooks a space, and they were looking for more security there for students.

No.

Okay.

So hopefully we'll have something in our next meeting.

There was some design and procurement processes being talked about here.

So Mr.

Raish, if you have anything to add to that.

And decide if this is something that we want to move forward with.

Then we will need to hire an architect for specifically that.

So we're we're continuing to evaluate.

But for your next meeting.

Okay.

So yeah, we can flag that and keep this in committee for our June meeting.

That would be great.

Oh, Miss Petone.

Go ahead.

I just I know that there was also security cameras mentioned.

I don't know if that had any updates to that, if anything was decided on around.

I'm just trying to hit every piece on here to make sure that there's not something lagging.

Danielle.

I'm happy through you, Chair.

I'm happy to discuss.

When we did our multiple walkthroughs, um it was determined with the with Principal Soto that there is a need for three additional um cameras.

And DPW has committed to having those installed over the summertime break.

Thank you.

All right.

Um appreciate all these updates and the collaboration.

Um always.

So we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Lake.

Thank you, Chair Batone.

Um, and just to kind of close out around the fences, I do have I there was one more question that did occur to me, um, which is just, and I I don't think it's actually a necessarily a DPW question.

Um, is you know, we're we're talking about these um potentially locking.

It does um got a little bit of anxiety around that because of the fact that um we've got these bollards and then we've got um a lock, and this is the only side of the school that's actually accessible on the other side is uh are the train tracks.

So if there ever was some sort of emergency where we needed fire trucks in there, I don't uh I guess I'm I'm curious if we've um if we've got the processes in place already, um, and if we've you know talked with the the fire department about how to make sure that we're we're keeping this as safe as possible in the event of something terrible.

Um has that conversation happened.

Ums Barry.

Through you, Chair.

We so the reason why the design of the open swing style fence closure was chosen is just for that specific reason.

Um we had talked about different types of like the chain link that rolls, but we thought that this would be the safest and most um easily accessible way for the fire apparatuses to get into that area.

Okay.

So we're confident and we have a solid plan with Principal Soto and her staff on how this would work in case of an emergency.

Okay.

Yeah, great.

I just want to make sure there wouldn't be just like because they're very far apart.

We've got two people we've got one person with like a set of keys for both things.

Exactly.

That kind of thing.

It's yeah.

Okay.

Um yeah, I I I uh I I would love it.

I would feel a lot better just knowing that we've talked to the fire department about it.

Um just so that even if for no other reason than that they know um what they're what they'd be potentially be dealing with.

Um I guess that's all say about that.

And then my my last little bit um is just to agree with um chair baton in that actually this is really good for everyone, including um you know the after school has had to deal with kids taken off um through some of those spaces um that I've seen uh and I've also seen and both had the experience where I uh you know kids ran out um you know in the midst of drop off.

Um so it is uh while part of me is sad that it's like oh, is it it's not as open?

It probably actually is better that it's not as open.

Um so I do uh I do appreciate that.

Um I see that you've got your hands up all stop talking.

Uh through the chair, uh thank you.

Uh yeah, of course I want to thank everyone for these updates and for the attention to this matter.

And my only question is um since there were multiple walkthroughs, um were there any other issues that were identified besides what we're seeing uh what we have discussed so far, only because the items is and other infrastructure there at Ziana's co school.

Like did we look at other um areas as well?

Doing these walkthroughs.

Through you, Chair.

Um Principal Soto has not identified at this time any other issues of concern.

Um if something comes up, we'll be sure to take a deep dive into it and make sure that all the students that will be attending in Genziano are in a safe learning environment.

Yeah, and that's absolutely the lens we need to be looking working at.

So it's exactly right.

Sorry to interrupt.

You're welcome to interrupt at any time, Chair.

Um, and I think that actually it's uh all right.

Uh yeah, uh member Patone, go ahead.

Thank you.

Through you.

Um I just had a question, and we don't need to get into the minutia of this, but I did which since we're on the topic, um, I'm just curious at for the AIM program at the Winter Hill, do we tend to lock the gate?

I'm just curious about how often this locking is happening.

Um obviously, or not obviously, but students who are border regulated might have a tendency for more elopement.

But um, I'm just curious because often in in playgrounds, you know, there's usually an adult near the gate, and that's another way to handle it.

And I'm not judging, and I trust the the district to do what they need to do, but I'm just curious as a practice how we tend to handle through you, Chair, if you don't mind.

Um I'm actually thinking like in reference to the Capoano school and that playground setup, um, where they just have the gate that has the closure latch and not doesn't actually have a physical lock, and then they have a staff member typically in the areas of the gate openings.

So I would assume and imagine and can also um speak to Principal Soto about breath best practices around that um to have staff members located at those areas to prevent um actually needing a lock as opposed to just a fence gate closure.

I think that would make a lot of people feel much better and at ease, give everybody a little bit of peace of mind.

And also just to go back real quick, I will follow up with the fire department and make sure that they are on board with um the plans that we have in place.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Of course.

Thank you.

And um if I can also just request that um uh these plans also just get a preview to the CPAC.

Um I think because there's been so much discussion in the community around these safety improvements, um for there to be a voice from um special education families.

I think would just be an important um sort of circle to close.

Um just and you know, sort of in line with the participatory requirement with respect to um CPAC and how it functions.

So um that would just be my request.

Thank you.

I got the thumbs up.

Um member Eldridge.

Uh thank you, um, Chair Baton for bringing that up.

I think that's a fantastic suggestion.

And I I believe the that community would really, really appreciate um just a quick touch base.

Um, my original um say I just wanted to say I appreciate how quickly everyone has addressed this issue and worked to come up with a solution.

I know there's a a lot of concern and hesitant hesitancy around the movement from one school to another.

And like I just I just want to express my appreciation for how quickly we heard the issue and we acted upon it.

And I know that's going to ease a lot of general concerns um when it comes to you know, making sure students have the opportunity to be safe at school, but then also you know, use the outdoor play space and stuff like that.

So just really wanted to express my appreciation.

Thank you.

And with that, we will turn it back over to you, Chair Link.

All right, thank you, Chairbajan.

So um I guess it doesn't sound like we're quite done with this one yet.

Um, so we'll keep it in uh committee for discussion.

Uh and that brings us to our final uh item, item five, uh ID 26-0492, uh, with that the commissioner of public works discuss with this council practical solutions to clearing snow from schoolyards without damaging play surfaces to allow students to access outdoor play areas.

So before we enter discussion here, if I could frame this for a moment.

Um I'm grateful for all the conversation we've already had in this context.

Um, I think earlier in the the school year, actually, um, where we had a memo from um then commissioner Lathan regarding um the surfaces and um sort of the difficulty, which I think everyone acknowledges, and it's really helpful to have that enumerated.

Um the reason this resolution is um worded in the way it is, right?

Practical solutions to clearing the snow without damaging the play surfaces, is I think we all recognize the challenges and uh you know, our schoolyards serve an important function, right?

They are the outdoor learning environments for our students during the school year.

And uh the surfaces that we install when we do our you know, schoolyard renovation projects.

One thing we need to be mindful of is what is the maintenance constraints of that.

Um, but the decisions we made um in the past around this, uh, we can't go back and change those decisions.

We have the surfaces that we have.

And so we have play surfaces for students to play.

Um many of these being several years old at this point.

I'm thinking the um the warranty may be near um the end of its uh warranty period or may have lapsed.

Um so this is all just to say when we do have snow events, um, it's really imperative that we find ways, you know, reasonable snow events, right?

A few inches um uh that we find ways to clear the snow and make those surfaces areas where our kids can play um and sort of move past if we can, the challenges, which I I am very sympathetic to.

So that's sort of the um perspective that I'm bringing to this.

Um and I I really welcome sort of the chance to discuss this.

So um thanks for hearing me out, Commissioner Weisman.

Right.

Thank you, Chair.

Um I I think like it could be helpful to uh have PSAF talk about like why playgrounds are built the way they are.

Um briefly uh if you could entertain that to sort of talk about why we got here, and then I can talk about maintenance if you would indulge that.

Of course.

Yes, of course, thank you.

Um so my name is John Braunkant.

I am the senior public space planner uh with the city of Somerville.

Um currently working on the Kennedy School Yard project, so very familiar with our school yards and uh the work that gets involved in it with it.

So a little bit of background just on Port and Place.

Sounds like you all are very familiar with it.

It's a conversation that you've had, but just a little bit of background about it.

In Somerville, our port in place is usually porous, except in some crucial areas.

So it's a lot of crushed stone underneath a thicker um coarser rubber.

And that thickness of that rubber is dependent on the height of whatever place structure is.

So however fall you can fall from whatever height of that structure that determines that thickness, then there's more decorative coating that's put on top.

That's that thinner crumb rubber that you can colorize and do fun patterns with and whatnot.

So port and place is really the only thing that we can use in the city of Somerville.

It is the only accessible product that we can use.

Both because of MAAB, so Massachusetts Architectural Access Board, as well as our uh CPSI um review and ratings of our playgrounds.

Um poured in place is really the only option that we have in our playgrounds.

But we do understand that in our school yards, we need to strike that right balance of poured in place to a plowable surface.

Um in our schoolyards, you'll see a higher level of asphalt or other hardscapes, port permeable pavers, those elements that we can pave, um, or those items that we can plow.

And so we strike those balances.

You'll see at the West Somerville Neighborhood School, at the Healy, um, at the Brown, there's all kind of this balance of elements that we know can't be plowed during the winter, and then elements that we know can be plowed.

Maybe there's some um aesthetic repairs that we need to do to seal coat graphics, but it's something that we can accept, knowing that we're not kind of damaging this other portion.

These play spaces are able to be used about 95 to 98% of the year.

It's really these a few weeks in the winter um when we have horrible snowstorms this year in particular really kind of highlighted a lot of those issues, um, but that highlights that balance that we're always trying to strike in our playgrounds to find that plowable space.

Things like uh creating access gates in our playgrounds so that plow trucks can come in and um kind of clear out the site of the snow, other things like just simple snow storage in different areas and trying to figure out the logistics of how is a truck going to turn around in this.

I've worked with DPW to ensure that at the Kennedy School, you know, we can plow everything.

And I practically drove a truck throughout the entire CAD plans to ensure that a truck can do all of these logistical loops and not really hit anything, even if they're a little bit kind of wonky wavy.

Um, so we definitely do try and figure out that.

Albeit there are some older playgrounds that don't have that as much thought and consideration into those spaces.

Um, but um going back to the port in place and just manufacturing recommendations.

So we can't salt it because it's a porous surface, the salt gets in there and kind of just explodes all of the crumb rubber.

We can't plow it because of that damage, it voids the warranty.

The great thing is that these um manufacturers do warranty the playground surfaces for 10 years, so we can go after them for warranties.

And with this port in place being such an expensive piece of the playground, it's nice to be able to go after those warranties and not have to pay out of pocket for those repairs.

Um, so that's kind of why we really try and refrain from voiding those warranties at all costs.

Um speaking about warranties and maintenance, I feel like now would probably be a good time to hand it over to Eric to just kind of talk about the maintenance practices.

Sure.

Thank you, John.

I I want to pause if there's questions for John before I jump in, or if you want us to just do our whole uh routine.

Um I do I do have one question if you if you'll indulge me.

Um that was really helpful.

Um the period of the warranty was really helpful.

So we have 10 years.

Um the consideration around snow clearing.

Um, you mentioned plowing uh and salting.

One thing that I've heard as an idea, and then we've also heard about you know, sort of parents requesting to go on like shovel brigades.

Um, I think, you know, are plastic shovels an option.

And then what about brushing?

There are um apparently some motorized brushes that can be used um to clear snow.

And that's something that um Mayor Wilson had mentioned to me anecdotally.

I don't know if that has been investigated also.

So um maybe that's under your purview, uh, Commissioner.

Sure.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

Um my understanding is most of these manufacturers do not recommend uh shoveling of any kind, whether plastic or otherwise.

And if I I just want to like take a step back from the whole like warranty thing.

And like I I apologize if in the past that this was uh framed as a warranty issue.

Like the reason that the warranty is worth mentioning is um the like shoveling the, you know, the warranty is in place so that as John said, we can go after the uh contractor if there is a flaw with the installation or the product itself.

And the reason that uh certain activities like shoveling plowing uh void the warranty is because the manufacturer believes that that um that that activity will damage the the material and they they don't care uh if we shovel, they just will not pay to replace or repair it if if we shovel.

And um when the warranty lapses, that doesn't change.

It's it's still just the city that has to do the expensive repairs of of the material.

So like warranty on, warranty off.

It that doesn't matter as much because like the the cost will ultimately be borne by the city either way.

We should not be shoveling, we should not be plowing these surfaces.

Um and then even you know, were we to expend the labor for hand work, you would still need to likely salt the surfaces because like once like when we when we remove um let's say shovel out a bus stop, we still always have to salt afterwards because with a thaw and like a thaw refree cycle, they'll you'll get ice or black ice on the surface, and then you'll still get into a situation potentially more dangerous where kids are slipping uh and falling and things like that.

So like um that that's like uh an added um an added challenge of like hand work around it.

So I wouldn't recommend and and uh Somerville teachers aren't or families aren't alone with the desire to like go out and hand shovel to try to help, but I would really like really caution against that.

Um I think power brooms aren't recommended.

I occasionally I've seen manufacturers saying that snow can be brushed off, but that's really just going to be like a light fluffy dry snow, which doesn't usually pose much of a problem to people playing on it anyway.

It's like when you get to like the half heavy wet snow that's sticking to the surface.

Um and then just like to just take a step back with um uh our like our snow operations in general.

And I think I don't remember under which context we discussed this, but um, we're gonna be working with the school department over the summer to really define uh the different phases of of snow removal for each uh school property so that there can be like a a handy visual design for everybody or visual diagram for everybody to know like what are our priorities, what are the school department priorities for getting the schools open, which is really our like um our goal with snow removal around schools, and then to to just like generally talk about the phases of snow removal.

Our priorities are public safety, including access to uh for like public safety vehicles, um, and then maybe city maintenance vehicles, school operations, it follows with safely dropping off and accessing uh and entering schools, um, then followed by like removing snow from parking areas were identified by the schools to get teachers and students in, and then finally access to recreational facilities were appropriate.

So like we have a limited amount of resources and time uh to get schools up and running.

And so those asphalt areas or the concrete areas, the plowable areas that John talks about, really lets us quickly um within that those constraints, um get get kids onto the playgrounds.

So like our commitment as it is is to do all those sort of safety operations things and then transition into the the recreational playground facilities, do those paved areas to get access into the schools.

And one of the things I've seen is that different schools, different school leaderships have different definitions of like what they're going to do with that paved area once we've removed it, right?

In some schools, they play on the port and place structure throughout the winter, uh, and they're they um and there they play on the asphalt.

And in other ones, teachers park on the um on the asphalt.

And that's really like a decision that happens at the at the school leadership level.

That's not really something that that the department has control over.

Um so like that that's just like a uh sorry to throw a lot at you about snow removal operations.

Um but like it's really hard to imagine uh a scenario where, like given the all the other work DPW staff are doing and the reason like the the resources it takes to um to like hand broom snow away, uh, and then the the downsides to that, like what when that would be appropriate uh versus not appropriate given the nature of the snow.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where we we would be going and like hand brushing snow away around play structures after each storm.

Okay, um thank you, Commissioner, for that explanation.

Um if I can just so it sounds like there's some coordination that's gonna be happening over the summer between imagine Danielle, you will be involved in those conversations with DPW.

And my request from that is that whatever the outcome of those conversations, that each school leadership has a clear picture, even a diagram of what areas will be cleared and what areas won't be with you know, sort of an average snowfall.

And then for the school leadership to communicate clearly to families, because I think what we're getting into is every year we have we have you know, at the first snowfall, big complaints from families about, oh my goodness, this area is open, this area is not open, my student is spending all their time indoors or you know, needs to spend more time in this area or not that area.

I think some expectation setting around that and an understanding that safety and um you know, safety is driving this.

Um, and it's not necessarily about voiding a warranty, because I think that you're right, Commissioner Weissman, that conversation has overtaken the conversation about you know like a reasonable response to snowstorms.

Um if I may, I think that's like a really good point.

Um and I do want to say um again, from what I've deserved, uh what I've observed um across the district is that there's not a consistent policy about playing in snow, and that it that it that that is really up to the uh the each school's leadership.

And and my sense is that sometimes safety is part of that conversation, but I don't think that's the only consideration that school leaderships uh take when they determine whether or not kids play in the snow or not.

Thank you.

Um I'm gonna go to uh member Patone and then we'll turn it over.

Thank you, Sandra.

I'm sorry, if I could just make one more point on that.

I'm sorry.

And like I would say that like um as a city, we do not close playgrounds when it when it's snowy.

It that's not like a position that the city has taken that snow covered playgrounds are unsafe.

Um I can guarantee that uh the playgrounds are being used with snow on them outside of school hours.

So I think that's like an important like framing of the question.

Like snow on playgrounds is not uh necessarily a safety concern.

Sorry.

Thank you.

Laura.

No apologies.

I appreciate the clarification.

I'm just gonna make a note on playing in snow, and then I'll go into my question.

I think one thing that sometimes people don't realize is playing in snow has a lot to do with clothing.

And we have a lot of students that are not necessarily gonna have snow boots or snow pants or gloves.

And so, you know, I appreciate the conversation about expectations and letting families understand that, you know, okay, you you're able to uh you know send your kid with full kit and full gear, and not every family in our community is able to do that.

So I think there's there needs to be that sensitivity to, and I appreciate the conversation.

Um I just had some general questions about, you know, I'm no expert on this, but I've definitely been part of this conversation for a couple of years, and I completely understand that there's huge trade-offs having to be made because there are streets and sidewalks that need to be taken care of, and I understand that, and I actually have to always compliment uh the city and DPW on the quality of the clearing of the sidewalks around the schools.

I mean, just I'm always impressed at that work.

Um, you know, I just I want to make sure though that, you know, I understand there's also questions about what's it worth to invest in.

And my understanding is that you know, there's different things that you can do on the polyservices, whether it's um sort of pre-treating them the same way we pre-treat the roads with I know we were very excited about the beat solution and there are other types of solutions that can be used on some of these um surfaces.

I could be wrong, but that's my understanding to to help with uh keeping um keeping the the snow and the ice build up at bay.

And I don't know if that's something or if it's just a capacity problem that we just don't have the people and the resources to do it.

And I I still don't quite understand the answer around whether or not, you know, I I know I'm hearing that brushes, but I also read that brushes are used in a lot of modern places or poly-edge plows.

Like my understanding is there is technology out there that I want to make sure at least I understand that we've considered and we're not doing because of the expense, or because I do understand that snowstorms are such a huge undertaking to manage the safety of the sidewalks and the streets.

So I don't know if that uh uh memo format would be appropriate, like just something that documents all of this so that we're not always having the same conversation over and over again.

And we do it's great to revisit it because maybe some of this equipment one of them was like battery-powered plows or something, or uh even in newer facilities.

I don't know if it's cost effective, but some spaces, you know, put in heating systems underneath the um the rubberized surfaces.

And I know that's money.

Um, but you know, I just always want to make sure that we are being thoughtful, which I think we are, and I'm sure you guys are doing all a lot of this work yourself, and we're sharing and being transparent with the community that we've considered some of these things, especially.

I think the biggest concern, and and I really um compliment uh John talking about you know, trying to have some uh asphalt and soft surfaces so that we always have something for students.

Uh, but we're gonna have some schools like the Kennedy that has a really small playground.

We've already gone through the West that also has a really small space, and the new building of Sycamore Street is going to be a small foot smaller footprint for a lot of kids.

So like I said, my interest is transparency and making sure like everything has been unturned and considered uh and we can document some of that for our community.

Excellent.

Great point.

Um we'll go to city council side.

So I guess my question is can we get something documented?

I just didn't get an answer.

So sorry, uh yeah, I I didn't I didn't pick up the question there.

Um just so I'm I'm I'm understanding this, like you're looking for a document, like an exhaustive document of I'm not looking for an exotic document.

I'm looking for something that says that the city has looked at some of these different things.

They've looked at brushes, they've looked at liquid anti-icing, they've looked at, you know, rotary brooms and poly plows, and like this is this I want to make sure that we're having the narrative ready and that um as thoughtful as you've been in this conversation, I want that document.

And I think it's really helpful, at least for me on the school committee, so that I can share it at the bare minimum with colleagues.

So is that an unreasonable request?

Again, it doesn't have to be exhausted.

I'm never trying to train work that doesn't need to be done.

And through the chair, I I do have some of that information just from the Kennedy school.

I I for my own knowledge looked into like a heating system and it's like millions of dollars and the amount of electricity that you have to run.

It's like you have to run it a day before the snow even comes so that the ground stays warm enough to melt it.

So there's all those like incurred electrical costs.

Um, but I'm happy to work with DPW and kind of summarize our findings on those different surfaces so that we just have a document that everyone can refer to.

Yeah, and just to follow up, then it's also a starting point.

So if like two years or three years from now, people are having these same questions, they can be revisited, but we've got a place and it's it's um documented.

Thank you.

Um, and if I can just add before I turn it over, um, that, and especially with John on from um from PSUF, uh having the context of access um for students who have um you know mobility needs or or something, you know, having some of that like framing around, you know, how we're preserving um uh or whatever, what our goal is with clearing the snow.

Um and if I can just add before I turn it over, um that and especially with John on from um from P Sough, uh having the context of access um for students who have um you know mobility needs or or something, you know, having some of that like framing around you know how we're preserving um uh or whatever, what our goal is with clearing the snow, um it's so that every student can have access to some um and feel meaningfully included and a sense and have a sense of belonging.

Um so like that that should frame, and I'm not saying like you need to have it in the memo in that way, but like at least to bring that perspective while you're considering that um would be really I think meaningful because a lot of these conversations revolve around those issues in the first place.

Um okay.

Uh counselor link.

Uh counselor site, do you have to get your hands?

Uh thank you through the chair.

Uh yeah, thank you so much for this conversation.

Um yeah, this is I think the second time we're having this conversation in this committee, and I really appreciate member Pitone uh trying to come up with an action plan here.

Um and uh so yeah, we have everything, you know, so we look at all these different aspects, have them documented, then have something to refer to every time.

Um, my experience uh with uh you know plowing snow and all that, just in general that is a capacity issue.

I've worked very closely with uh Commissioner Wiseman here in my ward, you know, like we never know, like we can get like really you know bad winter with you know one snowstorm after the other and icing and you know get where to put the snow is you know, having not having a lot of snow farms here in our city.

So um so as we are you know putting together that document that was just requested, and thank you, Commissioner Wiseman, for willing to look into this.

Um can we also look at who is it going for clearing snow in uh schoolyards?

Who is it who's gonna do it?

Is it DPW staff?

Are these going to be contractors?

Do we have contractors that specialize in schoolyards?

I don't know.

I don't know anything about this.

It's just, you know, whenever we contract out work, if we're thinking about you know, contracting out if that's the only way to do it to also make sure, you know, um this would be like a good fit for you know yeah, these surfaces.

Um so that's you know, because I'm trying to think about the bigger picture, which is like snow rule in the city and the issues we have run into in the past, which is what you know, this is contracted out and you don't always get what you ask for.

So um, so that's one request to add there as well, is looking to who is going to do it.

Is it DBW is it contractors, if it's contractors, do we have contractors who are like specializing this?

Um and then, and then you had like one really like simple question, and uh just because I am very ignorant when it comes to these things.

Um so you commissioner wiseman, you mentioned snow removal.

Uh and then after snow removal, we we saw we you need to salt, makes sense.

Would using sand be like better, or is it kind of the same?

So through the chair, I'm I'm gonna guess what John's gonna say, and that that um uh I I know that in the design of uh playgrounds that they really try to keep sand features far away from um the the rubber port and play surface because I'm about I'm about to use a dirty phrase here, uh it voids the warranty.

Um and like I think the reason is that the that the that the grit actually like gets into the um into the surface and makes it not uh perform as effectively, but I could be corrected on that.

Um through the chair you were spot on.

It's actually uh a little bit worse than salt because salt can uh slowly dissolve, whereas sand will just sit in those uh pores and keep it clogged forever.

Thank you.

Thank you for indicating me on this.

I just thought I would say it because it's something that was uh you know, that parents were wondering about.

Um and um yeah, and then the other thing I wanted to mention is you know, how can we think about this creatively?

spot on it's actually uh a little bit worse than salt because salt can uh slowly dissolve whereas sand will just sit in those uh pores and keep it clogged forever thank you thank you for indicating me on this i just thought i would say it because it's something that was uh you know that parents were wondering about um and um yeah and then the other thing you wanted to mention is you know how can we think about this creatively is like would shaping snow for play be an option since you know i know again it's just you know we have some you know schools where kids really really need to get outside you know the younger um is you know and if it's like not bad you know if it's like fluffy snow and I don't know this is again just just an idea since there is no policy saying like snow outside no go into the schoolyard yeah it's up to principals and you know to make that call so yeah again just putting it out there if it's something that the service thank you yeah I yeah I'm I'm totally open to creative ideas I'd also be really excited to talk to peers in the uh in neighboring communities that are doing this so if you know of schools where they are removing snow from these surfaces I'd love to talk to those people those uh districts and find out how they're doing it because uh I I love to to steal rather than invent thank you uh and then the last thing I want to mention is um and member Pito mentioned it uh thank you for that is uh yeah we always need to remember that not everyone can dress their kids for you know the cold weather for below temperature weather for playing the snow and um you know I I really for that this specific piece are we trust that our community can come together and help each other with that um and yeah there are so many creative ways we can we can do that um you know and it can be an effort you know between the city and the district to you know um you know provide like I I if we get to a point where playgrounds are open you know after it snows I hope this will not stop us from doing it and we yeah like I like as one member I will really you know try to uh you know push for this because yeah it's it's it's just you know part of the school day and investing in our kids.

Um so just wanted to add that thank you counselor um so I uh I think everything has been been pretty much said that that needs to be said this point I the I did um with I guess maybe one small tiny nitpick is that um uh you know my I'm not sure that I think the we were saying at one point that this you know the the schoolyards are reusable like 95% of the time I'm not sure that that's necessarily true um I don't know if we uh do we have the data to to I I have to imagine it'd be impossible to actually have so through the chair I I I was looking into um number of days of snow cover on average in the area and I I think it's something like 27 days a year and I think that's an average so includes uh big years and small years and I think you know I don't know how they define that but I was trying to see that it it is a number like this is a number that comes up because it's uh uh a source of uh ecological concern or climatological concern that like the the Boston area is actually or new eng the amount of snow cover is decreasing faster than other areas in this area so um uh the the last um thing that that kind of occurred to me um is you know we we talked a little bit about you know like well we don't want if we clear then you still have to do like you you would have to salt because it's it gets icy but I do want to just point out that when you've got all these little kids running over like uncleared snow the thing that happens is it all just compacts down and it becomes really thick ice that lasts or like sticks around for a really long time and um is I think oftentimes more slippery uh than something like black ice so uh I I don't know that that there's anything that we have done or potentially could do that's gonna uh necessarily undo that potential um danger risk fair enough yeah yeah um I'll back over to Cherpaton thank you chair Link I I just wanted to build on um some of the conversation you were just having um you know I I sort of squinted at that 95% number two but I you know I think the 27 days is maybe more um operative here and and I think that's consistent with what we're hearing you know if you think about it it's 27 days it's essentially like well you know what if you didn't have or you had snow cover for all of February you know it's a month without uh without access to outdoor spaces um or without sort of full access through through the chair I do just want to to um to point out that we we do put a tremendous amount of work into clearing the areas that we do have.

You know, if you think about it, it's 27 days, it's essentially like, well, you know, what if you didn't have or you had snow cover for all of February?

You know, it's a month without uh without access to outdoor spaces, um, or without sort of full access.

Through the chair, uh, I do just want to to um to point out that we we do put uh tremendous amount of work into clearing the areas that we do have.

So like I I don't think that this conversation needs to be as black and white as like absolutely 27 days, no access.

Um we do put a lot of effort into clearing as many areas as we can.

And that is a lot of labor that my staff puts in.

Um so I I do want to say that.

That is completely fair and and and you're right.

Um so uh, you know, I I I just I guess you know, maybe there's just you know, the consideration of the staff's work and the incredible effort of DPW, which I you know, I think the community really needs to be grateful for, and the consideration of the kids who you know really do need um movement breaks and the difficulty on that end, and it's really just you know both parties need to have that consideration.

Um and I think we're there.

Um so I appreciate you calling me out on that uh black and white narrative, because um that's not fair.

Um, so I just uh you know, I think we just need to continue to keep an eye on how things are going and and I do think that the expectation setting that I sort of was my first question, um will really help with kind of level setting and and allow people to sort of point to something and say, yes, we're in the hardest part of this, right?

February comes every year.

We know it's coming.

Um and we'll get through it, but we sort of prepare ourselves for these are the areas we're gonna be able to use, these are the areas that we're not gonna be able to use, and we'll sort of go from there.

Yeah, totally agreed.

Excellent.

All right, yeah, appreciation, uh, counselor.

Of course, uh, Chipaton.

Uh, and I think that that you said it very well um in that, you know, I it would be an unrealistic expectation just to think that like you know, 100% of the space is just gonna be uh like we can just clear it all and it'll look like it does in the middle of the summer, it'll look like in the middle of the winter.

Um I think making sure that that both I think the the parents um you know families uh and the the staff like have an expectation um of what is reasonable is I think really helpful.

Um like what is and by what is reasonable I mean like what is what is practical both in terms of effort and in terms of dollars, um and you know, and making sure that we've got a plan to like to to do the best that we can with what we've got.

Um, you know, and it sounds like I think we're I think we're pretty much there.

I think it sounds like to me, if anything is really like the um like truly missing from this puzzle is just the maybe the communication aspect, um, and that everything else seems like it's probably pretty close to there, if not there already.

Um I guess I don't know.

Okay.

Um I also appreciate what um counselor sayed and um counselor Link were talking about you know this idea of where can we help families like we can improve our communication, I think that will be excellent, but I also think we can channel that energy into how can the community help the kids that don't have the right clothing.

So like if a if a parent is complaining and saying, I want to go out and get a shovel, we say great.

You know what you could also do instead of getting a shovel is maybe work with the principal and see what you can do to support that challenge because the more kids that we have outfitted properly, um the the more likely that the principals will feel comfortable and possibly the teachers feel comfortable taking their kids out in the snow, because as we all know, there's nothing much more that kids enjoy than playing in the snow other than playing video games, but you know, it's a it's a close second.

So um it just kind of dawned on me, is like obviously there's this frustration, and I was one of those parents in the past, and you know, I I appreciate um Counselor Saites said, well, you know, how do we get this community together to help solve that problem?

So I mean it might be a little Pollyanna of me, but um it's just a thought.

So thank you, everyone, and I appreciate all of it.

All right.

I'm just like because I really want to um yeah, well, like I really like to leave with like an action always, ideally.

So for that, is there anywhere here like maybe for the school department who can um you know bring this idea to the principals so that they can maybe in their email communication with the parents, you know, before winter stars to be like, is this something parents are interested in?

Um I mean, we all you know, like if you're a parent, you know, you know, those boots and snow pants, they wear them for one season and then and they're very expensive, right?

And um, and they know because you know, um, you know, uh my my kids are really young, so I'm discovering all these like groups in the community for parents and all that.

I know that already exists.

There's a version of this already.

So it's just a matter of communicating this to parents, and if they're you know, volunteer parents who would like, you know, to uh, you know, you know, start like the donation and you know, coordinate that um with the schools, and then yeah, so if that if if we can start that conversation before next winter, and um and then you know, anything, you know, if if we can't get all that we need, then what can the district book and the city do to help?

Um so yeah, if we can get the ball rolling, I guess is my request here because hey, you know, I like to have an action something.

All right, thank you.

We might be able to start with uh lost and found seems like a pretty easy seed.

Yeah, especially for the gloves and uh trip on uh we'll go to Danielle first because she's probably gonna say what I want to say.

So I am happy to work with the principals on getting that going.

I think late October, early November would be a great idea, like maybe like around the Thanksgiving, like thankful where can people help?

Because I know people love to be very generous at that time of year.

Um I am also happy to continue to work with SFLC on they are a huge, huge help with serving our community.

I the work that they do goes above and beyond what anybody really sees from the outside.

So huge kudos to that team.

Um, but I am happy to work with both principals and SFLC to get the ball rolling on this.

And just on that, if they can add, um there's also another group mamas um that you know do this kind of work.

And um, yeah, if you're familiar with them, if you if there's a way to get them um to do also reach out to them.

But again, I don't know.

This is just I believe SFLC works closely with that group, so I'm sure that they would be able to get them involved as well.

Great.

Thank you so much, Miss Barry.

Of course.

Um, I would also just uh suggest coordination with the PTAs.

I mean the principals for whom you know who identified this as an access issue.

Um PTA is our incredible partner in each of our our schools.

So um, and are always looking for for opportunities to um provide support.

Um Laura.

Um just quickly, I very much appreciate you, Miss Barry, and saying that you want to coordinate this.

I also think that it's important from the district's perspective to consider culture in terms of if we want to have a culture of getting our kids out in the snow, that has to be something that comes from leadership.

Um, and you know, we're not gonna make every educator do things, but um, it almost it's like you have to have this mission and saying, like, you know, it's great because I do think there, I know that there are family liaisons that do this work already in terms of trying to outfit kids, but again, is the A game is the district willing to say, you know, we're gonna be that district that gets our kids out as long as it's not unsafe, we are gonna get our kids outside, and we don't want the clothing to be a barrier.

So I think there's something that has to come from the leadership too.

So it's just a thought, and of course, we'll bring that up at school committee too.

Liz.

Um, just wanted to express my appreciation for the discussion around the need for appropriate uh snow gear.

I think that's wildly important and is an access piece.

Um I also just wanted to quickly touch again on the point that um Chair Batone brought up earlier and the fact that um when it comes to students that have mobility aids, whether it be wheelchairs or walkers, accessing the area is impossible without a cleared space.

And so we're looking at you know access challenges with clothing, but then physical access challenges of not being able to move in the space.

And I just wanted to um just I guess bring that as a reminder that they can't even go into the outdoor space successfully without um a cleared area to be able to operate in okay.

Um so just uh this was kind of a long discussion.

Um and it sounds like a lot of it is actually um kind of maybe not uh in the hands of um DPW.

Um but it does sound like there is maybe the request that we come out with um some sort of memo just to kind of level set um all of the different things that um that can and can't be done and why they can't be done and the things that we've looked at so that we don't have to um tread old ground uh next year um when there's maybe a new person.

Um and then I guess then there was conversation um about doing things that were outside of maybe the scope of the the DPW uh Commissioner Weissman.

So you're sure I was just gonna volunteer to um to to do some of that uh the report as part of the um the diagramming and to like uh identifying the phases of snow removal operations at each of the schools uh over the summer.

So maybe sometime in the fall I'd be able to present that to this body or submit it to uh the council or the committee, and you guys can determine the best way to accept it.

That would be wonderful.

Uh I just saw from someone that there's uh from Chairbatone, you said that um participant had their hands up.

Um can ease, I see.

Um uh clerk, can we uh so I'd like to recognize Holly Simeoni um and um uh uh you know sponsor her uh unless anyone objects.

Okay.

Uh Samoni, uh you can talk, please.

Uh thank you, Counselor Link.

Um, I hope you can hear me.

Uh well.

I apologize for jumping on late.

Um, but this is a very important access issue.

Um, and um it was brought up because there are uh multiple students who um cannot uh use the playground unless the snow is removed.

And I know in the future when we have a new inclusive playground in the front, we will likely have the same type of uh ground material, uh the preferred safe rubbery material um that um the issue is that it cannot be cleared traditionally uh by snowblowing because it can be damaged.

And the concern is that it would have to, I guess, be like hand brushed.

Uh and I I think that this item that was submitted uh um is a little broader than maybe as it's as it's just written here, but I just wanted to elevate the concern about, you know, uh I personally as a as a resident um and a child and a parent of a child in a wheelchair, that those soft, safe um surfaces um are the most accessible and the most safe to prevent you know injuries to children who will fall having fun in a playground.

But knowing that there's warranty issues with the type of equipment used to clear it, I um uh and I'm very pleased that we're talking about this before we get the next storm.

What does DPW need um to be able to clear off the playground?

Because obviously our other parks in the city need to be cleaned of snow.

So um that's really what my question was about is how can we make sure that everything is cleared for all the kids when we get this great new playground?

And maybe we'll have a mild winter, but um preparing for the next storm is what I was curious about.

And and thank you, um, counselor link.

Of course.

Um, so I think we did we we did kind of cover some of that, but um uh I don't know, um director Weisman.

Do you want to like do like the the Sparks note version of of it or um uh sure chair?

Um so uh I guess uh good to see you again.

We we had a similar discussion um in sustainability and infrastructure of uh some other snow removal things and priorities, but uh the DPW prioritizes uh access to public safety vehicles first and then operational access and then recreational uh areas when doing um snow removal.

Uh we focus on the paved areas of every playground first because that is something we were able to do with equipment.

Um hand brushing all of the rubberized services in a playground.

Uh it seems to be the only um approved method for removing snow from uh port and place surfaces, and I'm not sure that in every storm that would be an appropriate uh treatment given uh like the the wet wetness and density of snow at any given time.

So uh with that being said, um we are going to be looking at uh snow removal as a whole from the every facility in the district.

We're gonna be working with the school department on identifying that.

Um I'm not sure it's realistic to remove snow from every surface and every playground.

Um, but I think what we're going to come to is uh a clearly uh communicated plan for each uh school grounds and school yard about which areas will be cleared and accessible uh for kids to play.

Um I hope that covers thank you, Director Roseman.

That was my sense of where we're at as well.

Um and if I can just clarify that um this just for uh for Miss Simeoni, who um I'm really glad she had a chance to join us.

Um this isn't based on um what commissioner Weisman said earlier in this conversation.

Uh this is not being driven primarily by warranty.

Um it's uh it's to ensure that the services continue to perform effectively.

Um so that was a clarification that was really helpful for me um personally, and um and maybe that Spark Notes version is maybe two Sparks note version-y, but um I I think it's important to sort of that um I think we're kind of moving past the warranty sort of focus here, which is really helpful.

Um, and then I think Danielle has um uh uh expressed to uh that she's gonna be following up with communication plans and you know whatever the diagrams are um to better set expectations um well on the school committee side.

So that's and much gratitude there too.

So thank you.

So we're how do we want to leave this one?

Do we want to do we want to mark this as work complete then?

I I'm fine with that unless someone has a particular item they want to follow up on.

I think we should mark his word complete, and then we'll if there's if we feel like we need to pick up more after the any sort of memo's or anything like that, then uh come out, then we can do that.

All right.

So let's please mark that as we're complete and um council site moves to adjourn.

Uh and we also need to approve the minutes as well.

Oh, yes, I forgot about the minutes for a second, yes.

No worries.

Okay, so on approval of the minutes and adjournment.

Counselor Scott.

Counselor Saeed.

Yes.

Counselor Link, or Chair Link, excuse me.

It is 7 48 p.m.

and we are adjourned.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

And I'll just say for the school committee side, I promised to have minutes for our meetings from the last two meetings.

I have failed in that endeavor, so I will uh bring them up in the next one.

Um we'll have a whole slew to go through.

So we're adjourned on our side.

Thank you.

Thanks.