Good evening, everyone.

This is the Sustainability Infrastructure Committee.

It is 6 p.m.

on the dot.

I am Chair Jesse Klingon.

And before I get started, I'm gonna read this blurb that allows us to do this meeting remotely.

Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

Um this evening we have uh Clerk Delaney.

Uh Madam Clerk, could you please call the role to establish quorum?

Yes, I can.

Councilor Scott.

Present Council Hart present.

Chair Clinton.

Present.

All right, with that, we have all members present.

So we do have okay, great.

Um, so I am gonna go in order, sort of.

Um, well, do we have uh who do we have from city staff here?

I don't see anybody.

I thought that Louisa was gonna come speak about the porter party.

Um Madam Clerk, item number one approval of the minutes of the sustainability infrastructure committee meeting of April 29th, 2026.

Uh we'll lay it up laid on the table for a vote with the German at the end.

Item number two.

Uh that the director of water and sewer provide an overview of the water and sewer metering and billing practices.

Um Director Raish is acting, he's basically acting as the director of water and sewer.

Um, so there's a number of items that relate to water and sewer that I'm gonna have to keep in committee because um director Raj is double booked at a the CSO open house.

Um and I would have, you know, I wanted to still hold this meeting because um, well, let me just get through, then I'll explain what we're gonna do.

Um so item number three.

Uh I thought they were gonna sell a memo.

All right, well, item number three.

That the director of public works place a portable restroom at Point Sullivan Playground.

I was uh that came from a constituent to Naeem and myself.

I um I kind of know the answer, but we wanted to do it, give it its due diligence.

Um, as far as getting a put a party into that park, I believe it's really challenging.

Uh so we thought maybe there's an alternative uh across the street at Junction Park.

I know it's not ideal to have people crossing Central Street, but it still might work.

Um, I guess there's even a more extensive answer.

So I was looking for that update, but I guess something must have got crossed in the wire.

So we're gonna keep that one in committee as well.

Um that brings us to item number four.

Uh that the director of infrastructure and asset management appeared before this council to discuss the decision to implement a tiered residential base rate structure that differentiates between properties served by a five-inch inch, five-eighth inch pipe and one served by a one-inch pipe.

Uh, that was my order.

Um, I'm gonna keep that one in committee as well.

And then item number five by myself that the director of water and sewer appear before the committee on sustainability and infrastructure to discuss the process by which it's determined whether unit requires a one-inch meter or a five-eighth inch meter.

This is kind of nuanced, but it it, you know, if the discussion was to take place, it would make sense.

I explained it a little bit at the big meeting.

Um, that sometimes the installer was given the person the option.

And what it amounts to five eighths versus one inch is like $500 a year.

Um, and not everybody, you only need a one-inch most likely without the adapter if you maybe have a sprinkler system, but you want to maintain your water pressure for your showers.

It's it's a you know, it's there's a decision to be made there, but some people aren't given that option, so they don't know.

So they're paying an extra $500 for no reason.

Um, but we're gonna keep that one in committee.

And um so that brings us to our main event.

And the reason why I kept this meeting on.

Um, as some of you may know, the um friends of the Alwife Brook have been working diligently um and doing a lot of hard work on an alternative CSO plan.

The city has its CSO plan that it's presented and um CSO, meaning um combined sewer uh water sewer overflow.

Um the comment period is open on that.

Um so I met with these folks and I wanted to give them a platform uh to publicly on record, recorded, uh, be able to give their presentation so that people can then watch that presentation and make comments, uh, make public comment.

I think the public comment uh set um option is open until September.

Uh I think it's sometime in September or maybe early October.

I'm sure the folks from L Wife Brook could could actually fill us in on that.

So I remember everything.

But um, so yeah, so I they worked hard on this plan in this presentation.

I wanted to make sure that they had this platform.

Um, and so yeah, we we were able to squeak this meeting in before the break.

So I'm really happy to be able to do that.

I'm not sure.

Um, so I know we have in the audience, uh Clerk Delaney.

I'm gonna have you um elevate Michael Leneto first, and we'll see he can he can explain to us who who else might need to be elevated to participate in this.

Uh Michael, I think you can unmute now.

Can you hear?

Can you hear us?

I can hear you and I can speak.

I don't see you.

Oh, there you are.

Okay.

So Michael, maybe cheer and screen.

Good.

Thank you.

So Michael, who else?

Who else should we elevate to a panelist?

Um, we're gonna need uh Kristen Anderson, who should be online.

Okay.

Well, so the two of you are both elevated to panelists.

Um, I did have the presentation was emailed over um earlier this afternoon.

Clerk, um, Madam Clerk, did you do you have that presentation?

Okay, great.

Look at that.

Okay, sorry.

So I don't have to run it.

Okay.

You don't have to run it, but you'll you'll just have to say next slide and that stuff.

So I'm gonna hand it over to you in a minute.

I just want to first um yeah, finish setting the table.

So uh yeah, so once we once I turn over to you, just say who you are, where you're from uh for the record.

And um yeah, any questions before we get started from colleagues or anything so far on the agenda that I've kept in committee or otherwise.

Okay.

All right.

So sorry, save the Lwife.

Uh so folks from Save the Lwife, Michael or Kristen, whoever, um the floor is yours.

Go ahead and take it over and uh yeah, walk us through your presentation uh through your CSO alternative plan to the cities, and uh let's hopefully we'll have a good discussion and uh educate everybody to uh what other alternatives there might be.

Okay.

Hi, uh so I'm I'm Mike Laneto.

I am a Teal Square resident since 2012.

Uh I have been uh uh aware of the Lwife for a while and had noticed in recent years that it was degrading, and then only discovered about a year and a half ago the fact that there are uh combined sewer overflows on a regular basis into the Lwife, and that is responsible for some of its degradation.

Uh, I would say for a large portion of it.

And uh about a year ago, I joined uh Save the Lwife Brooke as a member of their steering committee, having uh attended some of the public meetings on it before that, and have been involved with them in uh reviewing and uh commenting on and working with the uh team that did the planning.

And uh just once you know that along with me, the other members of Save the L Wife Brook have been at this a lot longer.

They go way back to you know, uh some of the uh Boston Harbor case in some cases.

And Kristen's been uh a founding member of the group and uh doing this for a number of years and uh has been really uh the the driving force behind the the plan that she'll present here uh but with a lot of input from elsewhere, uh including from uh planning partners, the watershed associations and others and our coalition to end uh sewage pollution.

And with that, I'd let it go to Kristen and let you say when you want the slides advanced.

All right.

Thank thank you, Michael.

Um, and you can go to the next slide.

Um thanks, Mike, and um thank you to Chair Klingon, Counselors Hart and Scott for having saved the Lwife Brook here tonight to present.

I've got about a 10-minute presentation.

Um, so my name is Kristen Anderson.

Um, Kristen, I'm sorry, before I get started, uh Madam Clerk, can you just go full screen with the um PDF for the you're able to make it bigger?

Or is that is that we're all going to throw.

I'll be honest, I use a second screen, so I can't tell what is full screen on your end.

That's okay.

You know what?

You know, it's fine.

It's fine.

Just yeah, we just use the zoom.

Just use a zoom feature.

I think that that looks like it's everything's in there, but we can see it better.

Great.

Great.

Thank you for that.

Um yeah, so my name is Kristen Anderson, and I'm here today representing Save the Wife Brook.

Um, Ilwife Brook flooded into my home and into my neighbors' homes.

We got sick from exposure to the sewage uh in the water.

It was terrible.

Uh, but there is an opportunity now to end sewage pollution at Illwife Brook.

Uh when heavy rain falls, sewage contaminated flood water overtops the banks of the brook and flows into homes, yards, and parks of very densely populated near neighborhoods.

This map shows the six active combined sewer overflow outfalls, which discharge untreated sewage into Illwife Brook.

Uh, one is from MWRA, four from Cambridge, and one is from Somerville.

Somerville's Tannery Brook outfall, um, which is known as Som 001A, discharges raw sewage from Davis Square and is in violation of the Boston Harbor court case.

Um, next slide, please.

Um, so nowhere in the Greater Boston area is the problem worse than it is at Illwife Brook.

Uh in 2023, 29 million gallons of untreated sewage was discharged into Illwife Brook.

That same year, the brook flooded five times.

After these storms, children rode bikes through untreated sewage contaminated flood water, joggers ran through it, and parents pushed baby strollers through it.

Uh, this is raw sewage.

Uh, in the Illwife area, CSOs significantly worsen water pollution and increase health risks for environmental justice communities.

More than 5,000 people live in the Illwife Brooks 100-year floodplain.

Uh, and when it floods, it floods with raw sewage.

This photograph of a child riding her bike through sewage flood water is from the DCR Alewife path in September 2023.

In the Lwife area, um, yeah, CSOs are very bad uh health risks for environmental justice uh communities.

Uh next slide, please.

Residents have testified uh that exposure to Lwife Brook fluid uh sewage flood water has made them sick.

And MWRA's own testing shows that during storms when the outfalls are discharging raw sewage, E.

coli levels in Lwife Brook are roughly 950 times the standard EPA considers safe for swimming and nearly 300 times the standard for recreational contact.

Um but this isn't only E.

coli.

Although E.

coli could kill you, E.

coli is only the marker.

The these discharges expose people to live bacteria, viruses, and parasites, some much worse than E.

coli, including norovirus and intestinal worms.

A recent Boston University School of Public Health study found that just living near CSOs can increase the risk of illness serious enough to require an emergency room visit, possibly through aerosolized particulates.

Um next slide, please.

Um climate change is expected to make things much worse.

Um Cambridge uh hired uh climate scientists uh to look at how climate would be changing in the next uh 30 years.

And those scientists um that the that were hired uh are Dr.

DeGaetano from Cornell and Dr.

Ghosh from Weston and Samson.

And they found the average rainfall will rise from 47.1 inches to 49.5 inches by 2050, and that a single two-year storm will grow from 3.2 inches to four inches.

That is a 25% jump.

Um the consequence is on this slide.

It's from MWRA's February board meeting.

Um average year Lwife discharges are projected to nearly triple from 7.29 million gallons to 20.9 million gallons.

And in rainy years, it's much worse.

Um tanks and tunnels cannot be expanded once they are built.

So the answer to more precipitation is modernization of the sewer system through sewer separation.

Um we all wonder why we are paying to treat stormwater at Deer Island.

Next slide, please.

Sewer separation removes stormwater from MWRA's regional system, which increases capacity locally and regionally.

It reduces sanitary sewer overflows, reduces basement backups, reduces localized flooding, and reduces secondary treatment bypasses at Deer Island.

And crucially, complete sewer separation leads to CSO elimination.

So sewer separation is really the gold standard.

And it has a lot of benefits.

Next slide, please.

Our position at Save the Alewife Brook is simple, and that is that community health and environmental impacts mandate that any plan for Alewife Brook must end CSO sewage pollution while reducing flooding and improving water quality.

The draft plan that is before us now fails to do this.

The draft plan does not achieve the highest feasible level of CSO control.

Next slide, please.

And I do so respectfully because a lot of work has gone into it.

The current draft plan is described as achieving zero CSOs in a 2050 typical year at an estimated cost of 340 million dollars.

And here's our concern.

A typical year is roughly an average year.

And many years have more rain than average.

Therefore, in at least half of all years, this plan at 340 million dollars still sends raw sewage into a densely populated flood-prone area.

A single five-year storm would result in 15 million gallons of untreated sewage into Lwife Brook.

That's after this plan is built.

Once the tanks and the tunnel are built, they are not easily expandable at a reasonable cost, which means that this plan is not resilient to climate change.

99.9% of the CSO control in the Lwife draft plan is storage, and only point uh 0.1% is sewer separation.

And I just want to say that again.

And only 0.1% is sewer separation.

And in fact, 0% is zero is sewer separation in Somerville.

There is no sewer separation planned for Somerville at Alewife Brook.

Um, this draft plan commits to decades of sewage discharges and it does not scale with an increase in rainfall from climate change.

Next slide, please.

Um, and this slide actually came from the Charles River Watershed Association and the Mystic River Watershed Association.

Um, and Mystic River Watershed Association was disappointed that they were not able to be here tonight.

Um, by the way, I wanted to say that.

If there is another opportunity to speak before the council, um they would certainly love to be there.

Um sewage elimination is not expensive on a per household basis in the MWRA's system.

The difference in household sewer bills between the least expensive plan and the plans that would virtually eliminate sewage in all three rivers, the Charles Mystic and Alewife is only $99 per year per household in the MWRA system.

For only $99 per household per year, which is roughly a cup of coffee and a donut every month or something like that.

We can stop dumping raw sewage into our rivers.

This is an absolute no-brainer.

Um we should do this.

Next slide, please.

Um, so Save the Lwife Brook has created a community plan, and after receiving some feedback from Somerville and its consultants at Dewbury, as well as from MWRA in Cambridge, we modified our community plan to make it even better.

And four things basically make up the Somerville component of the community plan.

One, um, there's 126 acres of sewer separation paired with green stormwater infrastructure.

Two, um, it uh requires diverting untreated CSO to an existing treatment facility.

Three, uh, there's engineered elimination of the Tannery Brook CSO regulator.

The regulator is basically the thing that allows the sewage to go into the brook.

Um, and four, and most importantly, it is fully funded by the MWRA.

This is not aspirational.

The preliminary cost is 229 million dollars, and it can be built in 15 years or less.

It actually finishes the job of eliminating sewage pollution from Davis Square and West Somerville at Illwife Brook.

Um, and just to be clear, this 229 million dollars, this is for projects in Somerville.

This we are asking for MWRA to commit to funding 229 million dollars in uh infrastructure upgrades in Somerville.

Um next slide, please.

This map gives you a better sense of where the sewer separation would be.

Um it is 126 acres, um, which would cost 126 million dollars.

Um we included in our costing the Dewbury sewer shed uh CA alternative projects, um, which costs 92 million dollars, and uh 10% green stormwater infrastructure costs about 11 million dollars uh for a total of 229 million dollars, fully funded by MWRA.

Next slide, please.

Um Save the Lwife Brooks Community Plan uh has a lot of uh uh positive outcomes, and it has been met with positive feedback from the community.

It eliminates sewage pollution in the brook, reduces flooding, improves water quality, increases sewer system capacity in Somerville and in the MWRA's system regionally.

Um next slide, please.

Um I I want to talk for a minute about MWRA um and why we need to use um their funding.

So using MWRA's funding is fair and it lowers the total cost.

MWRA was created in 1984 out of the Boston Harbor Cleanup Court case, specifically to solve this kind of regional problem, and it was given a dedicated funding mechanism to do it.

MWRA was able to raise $5 billion uh by issuing bonds, and with that money, they built Deer Island wastewater treatment plant and delivered around 100, which delivered around 100 billion dollar return and investment.

It is one of the great Clean Water Act successes in the country.

Um the bonds that were uh originally issued to do that work are now expiring over the next 10 years.

MWRA has the capacity to issue 2.1 billion dollars in new bonds with no shock to ratepayers because MWRA's budget already exists to cover the debt service on new bonds.

Uh furthermore, under the Boston Harbor Court Case's second stipulation, MWRA is legally and financially responsible for the CSOs that are in violation of the court click case, including the Tannery Brook CSO, Psalm 001A.

Um, for that outfall, the city is not responsible for the cost up to the point of bringing it into compliance with the court.

So let's take this opportunity to have MWRA fund the responsible and climate resilient strategy, uh, which is sewer separation.

Um by using MWRA, we are funding this regional solution to lower the total cost.

It will never be cheaper to do this work than it is now.

And frankly, it is it would be financially irresponsible for the city of Somerville not to take advantage of MWRA funding to solve the problem now.

Um, and I want to uh just cover a few um points here about the funding.

Um first of all, former MWRA executive director Fred Laske told a Cambridge City Counselor at the Charles River Watershed Association's award ceremony this spring that MWRA has money to fund elimination of sewage in our rivers.

Second, we confirmed the available bonding capacity with a former MWRA chief financial officer.

The funding capacity is there.

Um and third, uh per the MWRA's draft plan, the cost of complete elimination in all rivers is only $99 annually to MWRA households.

Um that is the the cost.

Um that is the the cost difference between let me rephrase that the cost difference between the worst plan, which is what we see before us now is absolute bare minimum lemon plan and uh complete elimination of sewage in our rivers is only $99 annually to households in the MWRA system.

Um next slide, please.

So our ask um of uh the sustainability and infrastructure committee is uh to support 126 acres of sewer separation, which is the area that drains to the Tannery Brook conduit, redirection of remaining CSO flows to an existing CSO treatment facility, removal of the Tannery Brook CSO regulator.

My voice is going.

Excuse me.

Get some water.

There's no rush.

All right.

Um and full MWRA funding of these projects to remove the burden from the city's uh budget.

And um, this would end sewage pollution at Illwife Brook.

And uh that's the end of my of our uh presentation.

Great.

Well, I really appreciate it.

Um, I'm sure we have some questions from colleagues.

I have a couple myself.

I'll open open it up to questions.

All right.

Well, while other people are thinking of their questions.

So Kristen, when you say um fully funded by MWRA, but then you say $99 to household.

So you're talking about like these would be like loans.

Um, well, the MWRA um their budget is um close to a billion dollars annually, and it is um nearly completely um funded uh by uh the ratepayers.

So the MWRA um bills municipalities for water and sewer.

And um then the municipalities, so then Somerville turns around, they they will pay MWRA, but then they pass some the city will pass along the bill to um to their residents to the households.

And what MWRA has been trying to do is MWRA has been trying to charge the cities of Cambridge and Somerville hundreds of millions of dollars for these plans um to uh control CSO in the cities of Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville.

Meanwhile, MWRA is charging Boston nothing.

And so what MWRA wants to do is they want to charge their all of their municipalities for this, and then they want to double bill the city of Somerville, charge the city of Somerville hundreds of billions of dollars, and it's not fair.

And not only is it not fair, but we we question whether or not it's legal.

We have two um lawyers on our steering committee, and we've looked at uh the second stipulation, which is uh part of the Boston Harbor court case.

And it's very clear that MWRA um has the responsibility uh to pay for these projects to bring the CSOs into compliance with the court case.

The court case is not over yet.

It's I think the longest running court case in uh uh that that's ongoing at the moment.

Um but yeah, so uh what what we would love to see this uh the city council uh take a stand um and uh demand that MWRA funds this if MWRA does not fund this, then we are not gonna have a solution to the problem.

They have to fund it.

Um couple things.

So, you know, I'm not an engineer and I'm not a lawyer.

We we have we kind of rely on you know city staff um to sort of like help us work through these things, direct us um uh on so you know we're trusting in our city staff, obviously as counselors, and actually I saw the mayor did like an op-ed about the burden on us, especially where we're not, you know, in our Cambridge and we're not Boston, and we're really asked being asked to shoulder quite quite the burden, and we don't really have all kinds of money.

Um, but the council has expressed, you know, disappointment and and um uh you know quite frankly, anger at uh what we're being asked to do as a municipality.

Um I I'm just still trying to figure out the the $99.

Because like, you know, like as you know, we're already increasing our water rates so that we can increase the enterprise fund to fund these project and other projects um that will contribute to um you know our infrastructure needs.

Um so I'm just trying to figure out what exactly the 99 dollars means, like where that 99 comes from the uh MWRA's draft plan under um uh financial capability.

So that comes from MWRA's own um that comes from MWRA.

Okay.

A couple of things that you don't have to know everything, like you know, even I'm asking these questions if you don't know, like these are still these are questions that can also be you know directed towards director Raish.

Yes.

Um I'm also gonna um you know allow for a little free flow conversation.

So uh we'll just gonna use the raise hand feature for anyone that wants to speak.

So in other words, Michael, if you want to have something to say, or um, I'll even allow uh some audience members.

I see that um um George is here, uh my friend George from NAGE.

Um so I will allow we'll go in order.

Uh but first I'm gonna defer to my colleagues.

So I'm gonna um call upon Councillor Hart, go right ahead.

Thank you.

I'm and I'm happy to I'm happy to let um Mike go first and happy to hear from more more people before I ask my questions.

Okay.

Well, I saw Michael raise his hand.

Mike, will you have the floor?

Just speak through the chair if you can, please.

Thank you.

Uh Jesse.

Uh Chairman.

The uh I just wanted to refer back.

So the the way that we got to that $99 figure was by looking at the cost, the overall cost of the larger of the most ambitious plan that MWRA put out there, include which included the full sewer separation, and the uh and the proposed plan.

And that $99 per household per year is the difference in cost divided by a million households and spread over 20 years, I believe.

So it's not cheap.

We're not saying that that that this is an easy win.

What we're saying is that it's doable.

It's within reason and it's within the MWR's uh capability to do this, and that the actual impact on individual households is a lot less to go from the half plan to the full plan.

That's the argument I believe for making Kristen could correct me on that.

Yeah, I mean, it's uh it's it's we we think that it's unfair that um MWRA is trying to double charge the city of Somerville and the city of Cambridge for this.

Um this is a regional problem, and uh yesterday's sewer systems, these combined sewer systems were not built for tomorrow's storms.

And it's really MWRA's regional sewer system that is failing to send flows to the Deer Island wastewater treatment plant, and that's because they need to remove the stormwater from the sewer system.

Um and it's expensive work, it's why MWRA exists.

And um we are really impressed by the good financial uh work that um MWRA has they their their finances have been great over the years.

Um and they should be commended for that.

Uh we we greatly appreciate that.

And and now we want to see them finish the job uh because um they're using they're using the Lwife Brook as an open sewer.

Um so yeah, so we're hoping um that the city council will will take a stand on this.

We think that if enough legislators take a stand on this, it'll help to put push MWRA in the right direction because we think this is political.

It's just not right that they're trying to charge, double charge Somerville.

And George Late might like to speak to this.

I think George has quite a lot to say about it.

I don't see his hand up right now, but I do see um Beth Clerk.

Madam Clerk, can you uh unmute Beth Hello?

Can you hear me?

Yeah, we can hear you.

All right.

Um, Chairman Klingon, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak tonight.

I'd like to thank uh Save Alewife Brooke for their presentation.

I'm a resident of Arlington and I am a town meeting member.

I um I think the presentation and the community plan uh that Save Alewife Brook members worked so hard on.

Um it's very it's very important.

And what we're asking for is um vision and leadership from the Somerville City Council to support this community plan.

They did their homework at Save Alewife Brook, they figured all this stuff out, and um it's simply uh incomprehensible to me as a resident of Arlington that my um neighbors in East Arlington, those 5,000 people that live in the floodplain for Alewife Brook, are essentially um exposed, as you saw from the 2023 photos, and the millions of raw sewage, raw sewage or CSOs or combined sewer overflows during a storm, those are all euphemisms for tampons, prophylactics and poo coming from Davis Square, Davis Square area, coming from Somerville.

So I think it's incomprehensible that Arlington is uh utilized in this manner, essentially uh that Somerville is emptying their chamber pots over the border into our community.

Save Lwife Brook has done a lot of work.

They've figured out that uh MWRA created to clean up this mess, um, is responsible for paying for it.

And they should not be double billing Somerville, certainly.

Um so I I ask the members of the council and and Chairman Klingon to uh review again uh the plan that Kristen's presented, talk to her, talk to the other uh members.

Um and to please support this community plan.

This is democracy.

They figured it out.

We're citizens, we figured it out.

The bureaucrats were not doing a good enough job, and they were giving us the shaft.

So please, you have the power.

Um support this democratic initiative in the in the very best um you know, brought brought before you in the very best manner in this 250th year of the anniversary of uh the founding of our nation.

I mean, this is what it's all about.

We don't even have representation among the partners.

Alewife has no representation yet, we're the site for the uh chamber pot receptacle.

So I've spoken enough.

I thank you again, uh Chairman Klingon for the opportunity.

And we are looking to you, to Somerville, to the um council for the vision and the leadership to make this a success.

And um uh allow the sewer separation, demand sewer separation from MWRA.

Thank you very much.

And make them pay for it.

Thank you.

Well, that's the only way it's gonna get done because we're we don't, you know, as a city we're struggling financially.

Um we're pushing our community members with rate increases to the tune of you know, double digits every every uh budget cycle.

So um that's why the mayor, I think wrote that out bad, and that's why I don't know um if you all how in touch you don't, you know, usually with the states have its peer to peer in the sense that the state delegation um has a lot more leverage than the Squaki City Council um state agencies don't tend to care much what what we have to say.

with rate increases to the tune of you know double digits every every uh budget cycle so um that's why the mayor I think wrote that out bad and that's why I don't know um if you all how in touch you don't you know usually with the states have it's peer to peer in the sense that the state delegation um has a lot more leverage than the Squaki City Council um state agencies don't tend to care much what what we have to say um and like I said the mayor has been trying to use the the media uh with his article uh Michael uh yeah well I I am I still on yep yeah oh okay uh so yeah if uh if counselor Hart wishes to speak I would step back but I I wanted to uh just ask uh actually a sort of separate or another question in terms of what are the options like what can we do with the committee and the council here for instance would the full council get behind submitting a public comment in support of sewer separation and MWRA responsibility to the uh regulatory bodies that are reviewing this that are you know as part of a public comment uh to the regulatory bodies that are reviewing this plan would be one way and or are they willing would they be willing to put together a a a public statement.

I mean I'll put you on the spot JT anything come to mind in terms I mean my instinct would be that we would be signing on to something that our cities you know director of inset inside uh asset and infrastructure management um would be would be asking otherwise we're just kind of fighting against ourselves um if our city isn't uh if our mayor and our our engineering department aren't um you know in the fight with us then essentially um so yeah I mean there's certainly some sort of um communication that we we could make um with you know with hopefully the state delegation as well uh but if but if there's no buy in from and I know you all have met with if there's no buy in from the from the city and and the administration I think it's really just becomes difficult uh at least that's my sense I don't know um but more on that in a sec.

So we'll just uh go to no problems thank you Chair Klingon um my question was well well I have a couple of questions one uh related to that point um I just wanted to ask I know that um when director raish made the presentation to the city council of the Somerville plan um right before it was submitted um you know I I raised the question of the community plan proposal and excuse me I know he's been very very busy because I think you know went from straight from that into the um city's budget process so I I'm not expecting this to have happened yet but I did wonder um uh Kristen and Mike if you have been able to get feedback from director raish um in the most recent you know in the past month or so we have we have not okay um so I think for me that's yeah and actually we've been asking for feedback from him for months and it's just been nothing but crickets.

Yeah so I I would I would second that we asked him at a meeting with the mayor specifically and then followed up after that and he said that was before the plan was submitted he said he would get back to us after the plan was submitted.

We've had a meeting with the other the rest of the organizing group of the planning group uh that he could not attend and then of course and he couldn't make it here tonight either so you know while we've been trying we have not gotten direct contact with uh yeah Mr.

Rish.

We've been open to it we we uh we've been asking for it and it's just he doesn't he doesn't seem to have time for us.

Yeah absolutely um well I and I I should have started my comments by thanking you so much like I I know all of the work that you've put into this and I um you know I I absolutely um uh agree that you know going forward with the current plans doesn't really make sense given the um you know what we know is going to be happening from climate change and and just you know that it's not not going far enough um in terms of public health like you all of the things that you said so I'm I I definitely want to you know help figure out how we can move this forward.

Um the other question I had was about you said that Fred Lasky that sounded like uh quite a development if Fred Lask like could you repeat what you said I was I was actually there so I can say this as an eyewitness and so I'm a personal Christmas.

So what he said uh to is it Susie Counselor Counselor you know yeah this sounds like it's gonna be tremendously expensive and you said well you know the the the the money is there but what do you want to spend it on?

And they want to spend the MWRA wants to spend it on other things.

Uh I see that is my intern understanding they want to they they need uh in the long run, they need a additional redundancy in the uh freshwater delivery system, that's what they want to spend it on, which will be very, very expensive.

But but the the money that is available to fund um the CSO control plans for um Charles Mystic and Lwife Brooke, those bonds must be um issued um from retiring bonds on sewer side.

So um they the money is there.

The money is the funding is there.

I shouldn't say the money is there, but the funding capacity is there.

MWRA has very good rating.

Uh they can issue these bonds at very low interest rates, um much lower than Somerville can.

Um that is my understanding.

So um and yeah, and if I may add in the way that they fund these bonds and the way that they have uh been able to maintain solvency is according to them, is they have a long-term 3% a year increase in rates built in.

And I believe that's 3% on top of inflation, but I could be wrong.

Thank you.

Um Chair Klingon, can I ask one more question?

Uh yeah, sure.

Um, I wanted to ask about the Boston Harbor court case and the league and the legal issues and what um you know what how much faith or you know promise is in that pursuing that route.

Um has have you spoken to MWRA or gotten a statement about what they're how they understand the second stipulation.

They they refuse to address it.

They will not they will not discuss it.

Yeah, they're still in court over this with uh the other parties, including the uh the plaintiffs.

So the conservation law foundation.

Uh and and we have met with Conservation Law Foundation.

Um but I mean, we can share with you uh actually the this inform the funding information is in the community plan.

Um and you can see information about the sec second stipulation there, and the those court documents um they're of public record.

Uh so you can download them from PACER uh and review them, or have you know, the city's council review them.

Uh, but uh we really we really we all we see really is solutions at Lwife Brook.

Um, but it is the financing of it that always gets in the way.

But there's money now.

So we need a political solution, really, to the problem because the money is there.

It's no longer a financial problem, it's a political problem.

And that's why we come to you um to ask for help because you could um pass a policy order asking for MWRA to properly fund this, um, and uh to stop uh trying to make the city pay hundreds of millions of dollars.

Um which that's that's what they're trying to do right now for a plan that will continue to dump sewage in the brook in the future.

And a lot the this the storage tanks and the tunnel on public parkland, which nobody wants, nobody wants that public parkland to be used for a tunnel.

Um, but the public would like to see large green stormwater infrastructure on uh DCR parkland.

They'd like to see another uh stormwater wetland to receive uh stormwater flows there, um, because it it's that's an amenity.

Um and uh it's a it's a great use of the parkland.

Um and it's it's it's it's great infrastructure to boot.

Um yeah, so I other ideas that we have is uh we we have seen um Cambridge City Council um pass policy orders that involve sending letters to the governor about this issue.

flows there um because it it's that's an amenity um and uh it's a it's a great use of the parkland um and it's it's it's it's great infrastructure to boot um yeah so i other ideas that we have is uh we we have seen um cambridge city council um pass policy orders that involve sending letters to the governor about this issue um i think that uh the governor should should be made aware of this very unjust situation where mwra is trying to fill uh the city of somerville hundreds of millions of dollars um to essentially subsidize sewer separation in the city of boston there are hundreds of acres of sewer separation in boston and boston's paying nothing why is cambridge and somerville paying for that doesn't make me yeah uh thank you yeah thank you mr chair uh yeah so to go back to the question you had asked uh a while back obviously you know the city council can submit a Q communication uh to the MWRA uh to the governor to to various uh entities making them aware of the problem here uh but as you said uh without the mayor and the director of infrastructure and asset management's buy-in um but it doesn't go very far uh that said I guess I'm just confused um because you know director Raish uh is uh he's a Somerville resident and uh longtime city employee and also I believe the chair of the uh MWRA's advisory board so uh you know who would seem to be well positioned uh to both understand the issue and to uh advocate uh for the MWRA taking more proactive uh and expansive approach here uh I I guess I'm I'm I'm just at a loss as to what are the priorities are being balanced here right because I I do not believe uh that director raish is uh how to stick it to the town he lives in uh necessarily um uh I heard mention of uh another priority being the uh redundancy in fresh water supply obviously having fresh water is pretty important um but I didn't catch all that can somebody elaborate a little bit more for me about what that what that piece of it is that the MWRA wants to prioritize instead of investing in the CSO control plan well I can take a stab at that so I brought it up so I should fix it so the you know in in the way that that the the bonding is written there are separate sewerage and sewer and water supply budgets but overall the MWRA also has its own priority setting and when they've spoken in the board meetings they've spoken about whether having to spend the money on sewage control would preclude them spending it on other things since if this is done as part of the court settlement which is if this uh plan is accepted that's what it would become then they would lose the flexibility uh to uh they would be forced to spend the money say if there are cost overruns or whatever you know they they would have to stay on on this so they are my impression from listening to the the board was that they their concerns were that they would lose flexibility but that flexibility comes to me at the expense of making any commitment to ending the sewage pollution okay so uh so I didn't hear the freshwater redundancy uh an explanation of what that was and so that was one of the things that was brought up say that say that uh that this we we had to spend the money on the sewage separation or sewer sewer sewerage uh uh mitigation uh and what would happen then if if our budget became constrained what we would have to cut other things out basically what they're saying and one of the examples they gave was that secondary pipe for water supply i mean use these are the big pipes coming from reservoir right that they want to you know produce they want to add a an a parallel all right uh well i mean i guess miss chair this um it's definitely does sound like it comes to a question of priorities of spending priorities that uh those are policy decisions made by the MWRA um I I feel like I I've got more questions tonight than I did before and I already had a lot of questions before so you know it sounds like I've got some more uh digging in to do uh both with our director to understand Somerville's priorities here but also uh to understand the MWR

Um I feel like I I've got more questions tonight than I did before, and I already had a lot of questions before.

So you know, it sounds like I've got some more uh digging in to do uh both with our director to understand Somerville's priorities here, but also uh to understand the MWRA's priorities and his perspective on it.

Yeah, I'm happy to work with you on, you know, put something in um after the break and and um you know have him come in.

And if Cambridge was able to get this Lasky guy in there, you know, then maybe we can we can try to get him to the table as well.

Too late.

He just retired.

So we've got a new we have an acting director now.

Oh yeah, well then you can get you could probably talk to the interim director um to see if he could come in and and um speak with you.

And I I'd also recommend um asking someone, you know, like the chief financial officer to come in and explain some of these uh uh financial details.

Um because the MWRA advisory board uh is supposed to be uh separate entity, uh it's supposed to be independent of MWRA, and uh the director of uh uh asset management and infrastructure, Rich Raish, is the chair of the MWRA advisory board, and they are tasked with trying to keep costs low for all of the municipalities in the MWRA's system.

Um and so Rich Raish's job for MWRA advisory board is to make sure that other cities and towns besides Somerville do not have to pay very much money.

And I would uh question whether or not there is a um conflict of interest there.

This is a regional problem.

It requires a regional solution.

MWRA was created to um address this problem regionally, and at Lwife Brook, where you've got the brook is literally um the municipalities line.

It's the line between Cambridge and Arlington and Somerville and Arlington.

Um that uh that brook is right on the edge of all of these um cities and towns.

Um, and everything that comes out of the brook ends up in the Mystic River, which impacts Medford and East Somerville.

Um so it's it's beneficial for everybody, and it would also do more sewer separation.

I know Wife Brooke would also um increase sewer system capacity, and you know, um Rich Raish is planning uh 95 acres of sewer separation as part of these CSO control plans at the Mystic River.

Um, so we don't think we're we've been very um uh fair here.

We're not asking for full sewer separation, we're just asking for 126 acres that are tributary to the Tannery Brook Conduit.

Um, but I I have a great deal of respect for uh uh director Raish.

Um, and so we we would love to talk to him um some more about this.

I lost audio for a minute there.

I was uh I I thought we lost your audio.

I was talking to my myself for a minute there.

Oh, I see George has had his hand up for a while, waiting patiently there, madam clerk.

If you could just um allow George to speak, and we'll just get some final comments and then uh we'll figure out next steps.

Very good.

Thank you.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes, very good.

Thank you very much, counselor.

I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words before you tonight, and thank you to the other members of the council for having asked us to be here tonight and be willing to uh look into the matter and help in any way possible.

Uh I just want to say one a couple of things, actually.

Uh, from the point of view of cost, obviously uh cost is extremely important.

We don't deny that.

I certainly don't deny that, having been a working politician myself for the last what, 40 or 50 years, I guess.

I'm quite familiar with those kind of issues and how they can uh come up on you uh when you're in elected office.

Uh, but I want to just emphasize that we are arguing here that the MWRA has not only the uh capacity to raise the money to raise the the rates, but secondly, they have the legal authority to do so.

And for them to fail to do that at this point in time, I think is somewhat uh somewhat irresponsible, quite frankly.

I mean, I go back through over 30 years when the Boston Harbor cleanup occurred.

And I at the time met with a member of the board of directors of the Mass Water Resources Authority who happened to be a select board member from the town of Arlington, guy by the name of Charlie Lyons.

Some of you may remember him, but uh Charlie in fact told me at that time uh in one of the board meetings.

I went to the board meeting and he told me and other people that uh they were promising to finish the job.

Uh phase one would take place, the cleanup would occur to the degree that it has, but then phase two, the remaining CSOs would be closed as well, including Al Wife Brook.

It was a very specific statement made at that time.

And I think people in not only Arlington, but Cambridge and Somerville who aborted the Brook, who use the Brook for recreational purposes, have been waiting long enough to get this thing straightened away and taken care of.

And again, it's something that should be paid for by the MWRA, not the city of Somerville.

Uh, but it's a matter that has to be addressed.

Your citizens have waited long enough, as I said, with everyone else, and we were promised something that has yet to materialize.

So I would certainly ask you any way possible to use your influence because you do have influence as counselors.

You may not see them that way sometimes, but uh you do.

And if any influence you can use to come up with a better plan here to eliminate sewers, uh dumping into L Wife Brook would be extremely helpful uh and beneficial to all the community members, and I think uh politically it's not the right thing to do.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, George.

I appreciate it.

Um yeah, just so I can do them, just so to I can lay out the math as far as what I as far as the way I see it is as usual.

You know, the council is being told that you know we're being mandated by the state to do this thing.

The city has come up with this plan that at least will address the issue not perfectly.

Um and you know, the city's engineer like you know, that kind of leaves us basically being like, well, okay, so like, you know, it's not we don't have very much.

I mean, the mayor had is he was trying to use the media, and that tells you like you know, the bind that we're in.

He wrote an op-ed that was in the Boston Globe.

Um, because clearly uh, you know the state does not have a lot of sympathy.

They actually, you know, we're raising the rates on our on our ratepayers exponentially year by year.

And uh based on the area median income, they think we could actually squeeze more.

And uh, you know, we're taking a beaten politically over these increases um just to pay for the things that we do need paid for.

So um, if you have that in writing somewhere, George, or like if there's a video of that, you know, that would be that would be great to be you know, if if we were promised something, but as far as everybody's concerned now, uh some of them in Cambridge are on the hook for for their portion.

And you know, that seems to be the way it is.

Again, not trying to sound defeated.

I mean, we'll I'll certainly work to, you know, the state delegation is the key.

I mean, this is peer-to-peer.

They don't, you know, we have a state senator and you know, three state reps uh in the city of Somerville.

Um, I don't know if you've all been able to meet with them at all or where they stand on it, but they certainly usually have a lot more traction than uh some city councillors.

Um especially where again our city isn't uh you know, leading the charge on this.

So it would look like we were fighting amongst our in-fighting, you know.

Um have you all met with any of the state delegation?

Yes, we we've been meeting with them regularly, um, and they are very supportive.

We asked them for uh money for the city of Somerville and for the city of Cambridge to be included in the environmental bond bill.

We went in and spoke with um uh we went into uh the state house to meet with um the chair of the um environment and natural resources committee, um Christine Barber, and um and her staff, and we meet regularly with um uh we've met regularly with Senator Jalen Um and with other area legislators, um, including Rep Rogers, um, who represents Cambridge and I got you, I guess.

Yeah, Arlington, yeah, Garbelli.

Yeah, I mean no, I understand all that.

I'm saying what, but have they said anything like um like like what about putting pressure on the MWRA?

Well, there are opportunities to do that, and and that's what we're asking you to do as well.

Um we don't see this as being at odds at all with what the city is trying to do.

I think that um if you put more pressure on the director of uh asset management and infrastructure to ask MWRA to properly fund this project at Lwife Brook, um, that would be extremely helpful.

Um, even writing a letter to the mayor um asking for his support to have MWRA fully fund these projects.

Um, I don't see how um I don't see why the mayor wouldn't want to do that, honestly.

Why wouldn't he want MWRA to pay for this?

Oh, I think he does.

I think we all do.

Right.

Well, so what the how about a letter from the city of Somerville, the city counselors and the mayor um asking MWRA uh to fund this, to fund a solution at Illwife Brook.

Um at the very least, bring the Tannery Brook CSO into compliance with federal, the federal court case.

It's kind of ridiculous that it's so far out of compliance, it's really bad.

Um and MWRA should pay for that, and they should pay for it.

You should choose sewer separation.

Why are you choosing?

Why is the city of Somerville choosing the least effective strategy in the face of climate change?

Storage on public parkland.

That doesn't make any sense.

You should you should be pushing for sewer separation.

And so we would ask um that you write a letter to the um uh director of asset management and infrastructure, uh, requesting that since it's uh climate resilient solution to the problem.

Um and uh and also to the mayor, maybe uh organize a meeting where this could be discussed or something.

Um it seems like there's a lot um that you that you could do um you to use your voice to support ending sewage pollution at Illwife Brook.

Sure, voice, sure, absolutely.

It's just I want to do something effective that's actually gonna get them to move.

Um Counselor Hart.

Thank you.

Just on this on this topic, um I I believe that when this was brought up at the council meeting, that Director Bay said there wasn't the like that the capacity did not exist.

Um that uh because Somerville has borne the brunt of um like the sewer infrastructure over the years for the Boston year.

I don't quite understand this all.

So I really apologize.

I do not have a great grasp on the infrastructure aspects.

Um, but I believe he was saying, like, because like Somerville really has borne the brunt of a lot of the work, um, including that has benefited Boston that um like that we just don't have like the space underground and like the the capacity um so I'm just curious.

I raise that now because I'm wondering what you um think about that through you, Chair to to Kristen and Mike.

Um oh well it I don't understand um what the claim is.

The claim is they can't that sewer separation is impossible.

Is that what is being stated that there's no room underground to do sewer separation?

That does that makes no that that's not true.

Okay, Director Ash's mouth.

I mean, there's a commitment by the city to do 95 acres of sewer separation in the Winter Hill area as part of this CSO control plan that is uh uh tributary to the Mystic River uh to reduce CSOs.

It's awesome.

Um we love to see that.

Um, and we want to see the same thing at Lwife Brook.

Um I think yeah, we're just struggling because we're not engineers, and so we're basically telling our head engineer, you know.

We'd be telling our head engineer to do something that he's saying can't be done.

Is it the thing what Council Hart's getting?

So we're just struggling to find an avenue that's gonna be like really effective.

Like I like that the mayor took to the media.

I mean, clearly, like that's desperation.

Um, it doesn't sound like we have a lot, you know.

We can certainly write letters and hold meetings, but it seems like at the end of the day, um the you know, the state doesn't bend for us.

Um I would think our state delegation would be the best route in terms of being able to, you know, whatever get to the governor.

Uh and then yeah, that would be but but I'm happy to do whatever you think would be helpful.

I just I'm just struggling to find a path that um and I really I'm gonna we're gonna wrap things up in a minute because we could go in circles all day long here.

I just want to um, you know, uh we we heard that we have the plan.

Um we understand the better, you know, what would be better would be sewer separation.

Um how we get there, I think is is to is the the challenge.

Yeah.

Um go ahead, Michael.

Yeah, this is just the last piece.

Yeah, this is just the last piece is that the what's missing in this current plan as proposed is there's no commitment to end the sewage pollution, and that's what we're looking for.

That plan was put together with the idea of coming up with a plan with a commitment that would satisfy the court as opposed to a commitment that would actually solve the problem.

And that's where we started from on this, and and we're still there.

We've been pushing that group long way.

We've got them to go part of the way, uh, and we're stuck.

So anything that we can do to move this plan towards modernizing sewers and actually making it work, and then as everybody has said here, making it work financially, we're all for.

Um so thank you for your time.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And I said, well, you know, we're I mean, yeah, we know I still find it unbelievable that Summer Wool is is being, you know, we're not we don't have the money Cambridge has.

Maybe we can borrow some money from Arlington or something, but um, we're you know, we're we're we're struggling over here.

And um, you know, this is a pretty this is a really big job.

We have other major jobs.

I mean, we we we have like the you know the infrastructure work that we're doing across the city beyond this.

Um so it, you know, we have a lot of challenges as a as a 4.3 square mile city.

Um, so we just have to keep that uh at the forefront.

I'm gonna uh let um Beth speak.

I see your hand up if we could just unmute her.

She has a burning desire to say something before we part ways.

And I go ahead.

Beth, the floor is yours.

Thank you, um, Chair Klingon.

Um we're respectfully asking you to pick up your political power, pick it up off the table and use it.

I mean, I'm assuming you guys are elected.

Director Raish is a civil servant.

Tell him what you want him to do.

You want solutions.

That's what that's what save Alewife Brook.

That's what the residents of Arlington are asking for.

We're asking for solutions.

Tampons, prophylactics and poo being thrown over the border at Alewife Brook, into the brook.

There are 5,000 people that live in the floodplain for the Alewife Brook.

The Tannery Brook CSO, cut the crap, sewer separation.

We're asking for what was mandated by the court case.

Save Alewife Brook did the hard work.

They peeled the onion.

Stipulation number two.

MWRA needs to pay for it.

Tell them that.

You guys have power.

Pick it up, use it.

Tell them what you expect, please.

Respectfully.

Democracy, we still have it.

We're in Massachusetts.

Thank you very much.

All right.

Anything else, colleagues on this.

No, I think I just want to thank uh thank the advocates for coming in uh for very helpful conversation.

Uh unfortunately I am leaving with more questions than I started the night with, but uh uh that's happy to carry these conversations up the summer.

I appreciate your offer, Mr.

Chair.

I'd be happy to uh work with you and putting something together.

Yeah, just for um so Kristen, um, just before we go, so when is the comment period?

It closes on because I know that's tonight.

So we wanted to make sure we got this meeting on the books.

I promise you guys we would, you know, I wanted to get it done so that people could tune you know, tune in or you you could share it out and then people could comment because um we go on break soon.

And I and I know the common period, I believe if you all could refresh my memory.

I think it it goes until on on the on our current proposed plan.

Yeah, I believe it's through the the month of September.

Right, yeah, yeah.

I think it's the end of and end of September, beginning of October.

So um this is a really great presentation and starting point for for if people uh you know want to get more involved.

Like I said, me and me and Counselor Hart and Scott will strategize on what we can do.

Um thank you.

Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to present.

We really appreciate it.

You guys, you did the work and we really appreciate all the advocacy you're doing, especially you know, for the Owlwife Brook.

Um, you know, I I hear you on like we're elected officials, but I we find ourselves frustrated all the time that we you know the mayor tells Rich Rach what to do, not you know, we we can we can try to tell him what to do, but he's not, you know.

So anyway, we we have to come up with more uh you know, like definitely courts.

I mean, court anything you lean on with the courts.

I mean, that is like we need we need something that we can we can grab on to.

We can't just make a plea.

I mean, that's just you know, we're we're looking for a political solution to the problem.

Um, we think that it's there, and we think that um uh if the Somerville City Council could um make a statement that MWRA should fully fund the end of sewage pollution at Illwife Brook.

Um, that would go a long way towards sending a political message.

Um I don't see how um director Raish um or uh the mayor could be opposed to that.

Um we know that there are solutions.

Um engineering wise, it's just a matter of money.

Yeah, no, they wouldn't be opposed, just if we were sending one message and then our engineer was like, yeah, uh, I'm not, you know, I'm not signing off on that for these reasons.

Yeah, I mean, like we do we just have to be all on the same page, or else it's just um but so I mean you gotta talk to him, I guess.

Where is he?

Yeah.

No, you said he's actually at a presenting session.

Yeah, so open house, yeah.

Um like I said, I would have tried to reschedule if we could if it wasn't right up against the break.

You know, the budget season really affects all of our abilities to get these committee meetings going.

So um, but I but I did want to make sure we got this one on.

So um no, we hear you loud and clear, and we need to go back and strategize and and um think about.

I mean, I would just say to you in terms of strategy, we have like literally we have a state state senator race with like two, three city councillors that are involved in state rep and senate races.

I mean, it's you know, election time is uh it's prime time.

Well we would we would love to share with you um a rough draft of a policy order um that you might consider um looking at and uh thinking about bringing to uh city council.

Sure, send it along.

Awesome, thank you so much.

Well, yeah, thank you.

That's not a problem at all.

All right, um last thoughts, colleagues.

I don't want to cut anybody off.

Just uh say thank you again to the advocates.

Really appreciate all of the work that you've done.

And I yeah, I'm I feel very uh committed to figuring out how we can how we can move things forward.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you all very much.

You know, we're we're in favor of anything that ends the sewage pollution.

So, you know.

Yeah, and thanks.

Thank you so much for your service to the city as well.

Yes, no problem.

We we we see it's not an easy job.

No.

Um okay.

Well, I'm gonna um work complete this one, Madam Clerk.

And I think that basically brings us to the end of the agenda.

Um except we just need to vote on approval of the minutes and adjournment.

Let me know when you're ready.

Yep, whenever you are.

Okay, counselor Scott moves to adjourn and approve the minutes.

All right, on approval of the minutes and adjournment.

Counselor Scott.

Yes.

Councilor Hart.

Yes.

Chair Klingon.

Yes.

All right, with that, that is all votes in favor of approval of the minutes and adjournment and 7 19 p.m.

Good night, everybody.

Thank you.

Good night.