Okay, so calling the meeting of the city council's organizational and policy committee to order.

Roll call, please.

Council President Naker.

Councilmember Bowie.

Here.

Councilmember Coleman.

Here.

Councilmember Johnson.

Here.

Councilmember Jost.

Here.

Councilmember Kim.

Councilmember Yang.

Here.

Seeing five present, two absent.

Wonderful.

Um, so thank you so much, Jacket.

I appreciate that.

Welcome back, uh, folks to the organization and policy committee.

I appreciate you guys for being with me on my first time uh being able to chair this committee.

Uh, as the council president is out today.

It looks like we have one item, but there's several presentations that'll be within that one item.

So it looks like it'll be like there's a lot of context added to it.

But this is a really important discussion.

Um, in early September, we heard uh the mayor's budget address, and we heard the urge for state officials as well as so as elected to like to consider a unified set of ordinances and ways to address uh gun violence and gun violence prevention in our city.

I personally am really supportive of this effort.

I think, you know, for me, I live on the east side of St.

Paul, but I think there's a lot of things where we are at a point in time where no action is just not acceptable any further.

And so I'm really excited about this discussion being brought up today.

Thank you to all of the speakers that will be able to come up uh and share other presentations, Mr.

Greenfield.

I appreciate you being here as well to kick us off just to talk about um the uh gun violence prevention work that we can do at the local level, and I think just in general, as we hold questions and uh discussions or anything that may hold for us.

I want to make sure that we have an equitable amount of time for each presentation and presenter.

So I'll try to pace us accordingly to just get through the hour because then we have the HRA meeting at two.

But uh, welcome, Mr.

Greenfield.

Thank you, Chair Johnson and members of the committee.

Thank you for the opportunity to begin this policy committee session on gun violence prevention policies.

As chief policy officer for the city council, I'm here today to begin today's presentation with an overview of where the city may find its space to potentially regulate firearms.

We know that in the existing landscape, preemption seems to dominate everyone's conversation.

So I want to start from a high level to talk about preemption and then kind of zoom into where the city has acted in the past under existing state law in terms of ordinance and then what other states have enabled cities that aren't bound by preemption to potentially do will also be a highlight of the ending point of my discussion.

So start from a high level and then kind of move into more narrow and specific examples.

As everyone is aware, there is both concurrent state and federal authority with regulating firearms.

The Constitution allows Congress to regulate firearms through the Commerce Clause, but the limitation of the second second amendment also places a significant constraint on the level of government action towards firearms and a five-minute conversation on that would be nearly impossible.

So I will move past the federal conversation to discuss state law, as members of the committee may be aware.

But in terms of how state law has affected the cities, Minnesota statute since 1985, Section 471633 has explicitly preempted all cities, counties, towns, and other governmental subdivisions from regulating firearms, ammunition, or their respective components.

There are two exceptions to that regulation to that complete exclusion as the term of the statute is.

So in this sense, the preemption seems to be the way forward um that to allow more effective uh uh more direct action against firearms uh and their components.

So with that, I think it's kind of a uh a clear gateway towards uh potential further action, and I know that the council has and the and the mayor are you know have put forth proposals under that kind of auspice of once preemption is concluded, uh certain regulations would take effect.

Thank you, Mr.

Greenfield.

I appreciate that.

And I and once again, just the uh overall overview and especially the attentiveness that you've given to providing some of the background.

I know for me that's hearing a little bit more about some of the states that have uh either put this put language in place to either um you know either restrict or potentially come inside of the you know, and in favor of the local avenues.

I think that that's something that I'm you know pretty supportive of asking if we're not able to resolve it at a state level as well.

So sincerely appreciate that.

Um Councilmember Coleman, I believe I saw your hand.

Thanks, Chair Johnson.

Thanks, Mr.

Greenfield.

A quick question, and I might have just missed this.

In the states that don't preempt local action, did have any of those cities banned guns from libraries and work centers?

Is that included in that list?

I would have to check on that.

I'd be happy to look.

I I would imagine that um, you know, based on the cities that we're talking about, Chicago, Philadelphia, the District of Columbia, I would imagine that they would have a you know public facility ban on firearm possession, but I I I didn't um I didn't state that the other side, I'd be happy to check.

Thanks.

All right, so I think with that, mom's demand action is next to present.

Um, and I believe they have um around 15 minutes to present.

All right, and I believe that mom's demand action is also going to be presenting with state representative David.

All right, thank you.

Welcome.

Council members, I'm Gretchen Damon with St.

Paul Moms Demand Action.

Thank you for having St.

Paul Moms Demand Action at your policy committee meeting today.

We are proud of the city of St.

Paul for recently drafting language for an ordinance that will address gun violence in our city.

We fully support all the policies with within it and hope to add to the discussion today about all those items.

Part of our presentation this afternoon lines up with the proposed ordinance banning assault weapons and banning high capacity magazines.

The other policies we are presenting capitalize on past successes and don't necessarily require ordinances.

One is secure firearm storage, which became a city ordinance with your help, and now we feel it is time to push for a state law.

The other is extreme risk protection orders, which recently became a state law, and we are advocating the creation of public awareness and additional resources to make this life-saving tool as effective as possible.

We encourage the council to continue continue to be bold in its actions, and we urge all leaders to come together to move forward as one to make a community safe from gun violence, especially for our children.

Our first presenter today is Maggie Emery.

Welcome.

Hi, good afternoon.

My name is Maggie Emery.

I'm the executive director of Protect Minnesota, which is the only state-based gun violence prevention organization here in Minnesota, and I'm also a proud member of the St.

Paul Momsman Action chapter.

Um, so are there should there be slides projecting right now?

No.

It's in a handout.

Oh, I'm happy to I please.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I put this together, but I don't remember it off the top of my head.

Um so I'm gonna talk a little bit about um some background on assault weapons and high capacity magazines, why they're so harmful, and why we should do as much as we're empowered to do as municipalities to ban them within our borders.

Um, what is an assault weapon?

We've been hearing this question quite a bit as we talk about banning them.

An assault weapon is a semi-automatic civilian weapon that usually has a military-style feature of some kind or multiple, something like a detachable magazine, uh pistol grip, folding stock, etc.

These are essentially military-style weapons that have been uh um made available to citizenry.

Um what is a high capacity magazine?

A magazine that this one is simple, it's a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

Um why anyone would need to fire more than 10 rounds in one go?

Um, I don't have the answer to.

So why regulate these things within our borders?

For a few reasons.

Mass shootings with assault weapons result in two times as many killed and 14 times as many people injured as mass shootings that don't involve assault weapons.

Um, in the 10 deadliest mass shootings here in the United States on record, eight of them used an assault weapon, and these just simply allow more harm to happen in the shooting and enunciation.

We saw 116 bullet shot in 118 seconds.

That's an incredible amount of damage.

Um these have been regulated before, as you all probably know there was a federal ban on assault weapons from 1994 to 2004.

That was allowed to sunset and has not been brought back up.

There is extensive evidence that um shootings with assault weapons diminished during the time when assault weapons were banned.

Um 14 states in DC already ban assault weapons, and challenges to these bans have held up in court.

It's legal for us to do that here in Minnesota, and there are also a lot of municipalities that do this as well.

Denver, Cook County, Buffalo have all banned high capacity magazines and assault weapons.

Um what this is dependent on, I know a number of you know this because you were at the press conference yesterday with Mayor Carter.

Um, this is uh dependent on the reversal of preemption in this state.

Um, but if that doesn't happen, we could enact a uh a trigger clause, right?

That says as soon as preemption is reversed, this will go into effect in the city of St.

Paul.

But there certainly is precedent for this all around the country, and there's no reason why we couldn't do it here.

The simple fact is that these weapons, these magazines make our communities vastly more unsafe, and um it is legal for us to regulate them.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, council members.

My name is Um Dr.

Emily Benzi.

I'm a St.

Paulite, a family physician, and a volunteer with the St.

Paul group of Mons Demand Action.

And I'm here to follow Maggie to just um kind of explain what our asks would be of the St.

Paul City Council around the issue of banning assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

And I our main ask really is for you to just be part of the growing chorus of leaders who are using their voices and platforms to call for the bans on assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

We are heartened to see Mayor Carter and other Minnesota mayors standing together and speaking out, and we ask for your support and collaboration as well with leaders at all levels.

Um, certainly a statewide ban would be best.

So we ask, you know, to please continue to work with and support our St.

Paul state delegation, including Representative Pinto, who's here with us today, in whatever capacity you can.

Um, in light of the apparent inaction at the Capitol right now, we also ask for your collaboration with our mayor and other city councils in Minnesota to keep the pressure on state leaders for action.

The West St.

Paul City Council passed a resolution to that effect last month, which could potentially be used as a model.

We're hoping that if enough cities show readiness to our state leaders that eventually it will lead to a tipping point that state legislators can no longer um ignore.

In the meantime, we ask um to please support the mayor's push to get state-level preemption of firearm regulations lifted, um, as has been mentioned, so that St.

Paul can pass enforceable gun violence prevention ordinances within our own city.

And finally, we ask you to pass an ordinance to ban public possession sale and transfer of assault weapons and high capacity magazines in St.

Paul so that it will be ready to enforce as soon as preemption is lifted.

And we are very grateful to know that this is already in the works.

Um we thank you all so much for having us here today and for the work that you do to keep us safe.

And I'm gonna turn it over to Gretchen Baeman again, who will be talking about the secure firearm storage piece.

Um I'm here to talk about um secure firearm storage, and traditionally this is the policy that we talk about most because it has potential to save the most lives.

Um easy access to guns are um a big factor in firearm suicide, in unintentional shootings among children, in firearm theft.

The gold standard for secure firearm storage is to store the gun unloaded, locked, and with the ammunition separate.

We do have a state law that is a type of secure firearm storage law.

It's known as a child access law, and it was implemented in 2010.

And that law basically says if someone stores a firearm, a loaded firearm where a child might likely access it, that person can be found negligent.

So that's what that child access law covers in 2010.

Things have changed since 2010.

In 2020 and 2021, the biggest surge in firearm purchasing occurred.

Over 44 million guns were purchased in those two years.

In Minnesota, that equated to a million and a half guns in those two years.

Unfortunately, just under half of gun owners store their firearms securely.

So a little more than half of gun owners do not use secure storage.

Thus, we now live in a country where 46 million children live in a household with an unsecured gun.

Self-protection is the number one reason that people give to buy a gun.

However, a gun in a home really increases the chances that someone in that household is going to be killed or injured.

Much more than the gun will be used for an outside intruder.

Even knowing that fact, um, one of the biggest arguments that we kind of get the pushback we get is I'm a gun owner and I want to get to my gun as fast as possible.

Fortunately, um technology has caught up, and there are gun safes that you can store your firearm in that you can open instantaneously, instantaneously if you are the owner.

So a thumbprint or a fingerprint or voice activation or a fob on your watch.

So really a gun owner can get to their gun instantaneously as the owner if that fear is still in their mind.

But really, the gun in the house is more um potentially dangerous for those who live there.

Um guns securely.

And in the meantime, when we're waiting for that, we um have some local actions that we're working on that we would like your support.

Uh the free gun lock program through the St.

Paul Public Libraries, which the Ramsey County Attorney's Office helps us with.

We would like information to go home through the St.

Paul Public Schools, so families get information on secure storage and know how to talk about it.

We've had some luck with charter schools with the Office of Neighborhood Safety, but still we need broader.

And we're also lastly, we're um proud of the eight parking ramp signs we have up that remind car owners not to leave unsecured guns in their cars because that is the biggest source of gun theft vehicles.

Thank you for considering this policy.

And next I want to introduce Anne Leduc.

Thank you, George.

Hi, my name is Anne Leduc.

I'm a resident of Ward 4 in St.

Paul, and I'm going to talk.

I have the easy part today because I'm going to talk about the URPL, extreme risk protection orders.

And the reason it's easy is because it is an existing state law.

This will be January will be the second year.

Yes, and in your materials, uh, you should have uh some slides about ERPO.

So it's I been a little bit over a year.

The uh Ramsey County attorney John Choi designated ERPO as a priority, and he has hired and dedicated staff to work on that.

We have been working with them as well.

Um so extreme risk protection order also called a red flag.

Uh people understand that I think more clearly.

And as our police chief, uh Chief Henry says, every report pays off.

And I like that.

I think that's that's easy to remember.

So if you feel, if anybody, if people feel there's someone is posing a threat to themselves or to other people or both, that's when you use an ERPO.

And who can so I'm going to tell you about you know what it is, how they're accessed, and then what we ask of you.

So how it's accessed is through a family member or through law enforcement.

Um there's uh in your in your materials, there's a link to the Ramsey County website, which takes you right to the petition form.

And it's extremely easy, excuse me, extremely easy to fill out.

I I was a public school teacher, and the forms, if you've ever seen them for free and reduced lunch, are not easy to fill out.

But this is a very easy form to fill.

We we printed copies of it and we had it at our table when we went out this summer to speak to the public so that people could actually see how easy it was.

One of our goals is uh the St.

Paul Moms is to educate people that this law exists.

And so what our ask of you is to help us disseminate the materials that we have prepared and the materials that we prepared with and with the assistance of the Ramsey County Attorney's Office are three.

There are some uh some things that are suitable for uh Instagram, Facebook for social media, they're in your materials.

There is a an ERPO fact sheet, and there is a narrative uh paragraph style about what ERPOs are.

We are asking you if you can put this into your constituent newsletter.

And every one of you should have received one except for council member Johnson, which is my fault because I thought you'd probably rather uh hear from us first before we send it to you.

But I know someone has sent it to Councilmember Coleman, and anyway, we'll send it again.

And I I gave uh council member Bowie some when you were at our meeting, but we'll send them again to you.

Uh and we'd also like to have you encourage your district councils to put it into their newsletters.

And just this past week we got pain phalan printed us and um the Como District Council, District 10.

They both had links to our materials.

Um I think that that is what I was going to say.

Like I said, I have the easy, the easy part.

But it's a public educ excuse me, public education campaign.

So, and I think we'll have some time for questions afterwards.

So thank you for inviting moms today.

All right.

Uh State Representative Penta, would you like to come up and say a few words if you'd like welcome to the chambers?

Thank you so much.

I'm so glad to be with you.

I I think the plan was actually that uh that I was gonna comment at the end, and so maybe what I'll do is defer to the intergovernmental affairs team and then um provide some comments uh to to each of these sections if that's okay with you, Madam Chair.

Okay, I'll do that.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Okay, are there any questions for either Miss Damon, Emory Benzi or Councilmember Joost?

Just I have two questions, and I um one's actually just a comment for the folks at moms demand action.

I just again just really appreciate you all being here, and um the part in your presentation about normalizing uh communication around safe storage.

I'm I'm a parent, I know many of us are are also parents, and when we think about you know our kids going over to someone else's house or something like that, and it feels like that's getting more normalized just from what I've been experiencing, and I know that a lot of that is because of the work that you do, and I'm uh just really appreciative of that.

And I know there's more to do too, because it's not fully normalized yet, but that's something that I think about a lot that really concerns me.

Um the one question I had uh about the the um ERPO law, um, and I don't know if if you know the answer to this, but is this related to in or maybe not related to, or how does it relate to um like orders for protection and harassment orders and things like that?

Does anyone have an answer to that?

Do you want to answer that?

Sure.

Um if I can, madam chair.

Um in my work outside the legislature, I work as a prosecutor for Ramsey County as your workhouse member.

And so each of these orders are parallel, and then in each case, somebody goes to court and says, hey, I need a court order to do something that will be protective of people.

But there's actually really four different orders that are kind of can all be grouped together.

So you mentioned an order for protection, which is something where somebody is in a relationship with somebody else, um, a romantic partner or uh parent, child or sibling, whatever it is, and a court relation order saying, hey, for the protection of those people, there needs to be a separation.

Harassment restraining order is similar, but there's not that relationship.

So maybe a neighbor or co-workers.

Um there's a domestic abuse no contact order that's issued as part of a criminal case, and then this ERPO is sort of the newest one.

And part of the reason that I'm saying this is that even as we were enacting the ERPO law, there's some pushback saying, Oh, this is such a new thing, and of course it's not, it's in use in many other states, and it parallels those other orders that I said.

So with an ERPO, the person in question is either a family or friend uh or potentially law enforcement going to the court saying we need an order for protection of this person and everybody else to keep this person away from guns for a temporary period of time.

So they're all kind of parallel, but they've got um slightly different uses.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Councilmember Joe St.

Uh, Councilmember Coleman.

Thank you.

My question is um for Ms.

Damon, and if no problem, I feel don't have the answer to this question.

But you mentioned that during I think it was 2020 and 2021, we had an increase of 1.5 million guns purchased in Minnesota.

I'm curious if you have any additional information on who those purchases were.

Were those folks who had not previously owned a gun who are purchasing first-time guns?

Is it folks who already had three, four, or five guns and decided to purchase more?

If you have any additional information, I'd be very curious to know.

I don't have it at my fingertips, but I think there were a lot of first-time gun buyers in in that amount.

But I can get that information for you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Okay, and then I believe we have another uh presentation as well from Ms.

House.

Welcome.

Hello.

Hi everybody, let me just get my things set up quick.

Okay.

Hopefully that will work.

All right, hello, thanks for having me.

I'm Bryn House, the intergovernmental relations director for the city of St.

Paul.

I'm here to talk a little bit about the um gun violence prevention ordinance that Mayor Carter um proposed at his budget address in September, as council member Johnson um mentioned earlier.

Um so I let's see here.

Okay.

You have the handout also.

Um trying to project it on the slides.

Trying to project sure.

I know sometimes it has to it takes a minute to catch.

Voice activate it slide.

No.

Activate the slides.

Okay.

Well, you have the handouts in front of you also.

Sure.

So you can see what I'm seeing.

Um, and I'm gonna try to not repeat too much of what's already been talked about.

Um, but as mentioned previously, and as I'm sure Representative Pinto will be able to talk more about even more thoroughly than I possibly ever could, um, the state of Minnesota preempts local governments from enacting any local laws to um control or regulate firearms at a level higher than what the state already does, which is pretty minimal.

Um so in this context of firearms, state law completely preempts local authority over regulating firearms, ammunition, and their components.

Um don't miss anything.

Okay, um, and so the mayor and I know our city council is also well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I am comfortable saying I think our city council is uh also agrees um cities from across the state are either calling for the state to implement like ideal situation would be legislative action for um uh like blanket uh like uh firearm uh gun violence prevention across the state.

In the instance that that's not possible for political reasons, we would um love for the state to repeal the preemption law so the states can act on our cities can act on our own.

Um I would just say like I and I don't mean I I want to be clear, we aren't trying to call out Governor Walls or our the DFL House and Senate leaders and members, um, they have been pushing for gun violence prevention at the state level for years.

Um my own experience working up there and now working in this space here, um I can attest that they take this incredibly seriously.

It's a top priority for many, many of our legislative leaders.

Um but with unfortunately the house being tied and Republicans controlling the speakership.

I think politically it's just a much bigger challenge in the current political environment.

So with that said, we are, you know, the call that the mayors and those who attended this press conference yesterday have been saying is fine.

We understand that you don't feel comfortable enacting gun violence prevention statewide, but we are ready to act at the local level.

And so for the local ordinance that Mayor Carter has proposed to you all, um it would do the following things.

It would ban assault weapons, large capacity magazines and binary triggers within city limits.

The ordinance that we will be bringing to you all next week for first reading defines high capacity magazines as 20 rounds.

I know the mom's demand action presentation at a 10, so I just want to be clear our ordinance is a little bit different than their proposal.

Um and that is something that I think it could be a discussion amongst all of you of where you feel comfortable landing on that number.

Um require firearms to all have a serial number and prohibit untraceable ghost guns, um, restrict firearms and sensitive places, including parks, libraries, rec centers, and city owned buildings, um ensuring that there is clear signage on all of these sensitive spaces where the city would ban firearms, um, and then establishing penalties as well.

Um and the ordinance is very clear that if enforcement will not um take place until the um state statutes are repealed.

There are a number of exemptions in the ordinance we'll be bringing forward, um, including active duty law enforcement, um licensed firearms dealers, people who are legally transporting their firearms through the city, um, so they don't have to like avoid St.

Paul if they're traveling on I-94 um legally with a firearm, and then disposal or transfer to authorized agencies.

Um let's see.

And then as you all know, and as several of you attended yesterday, there was a uh press conference at the state capitol with a coalition of local leaders and local um gun violence prevention um like leaders um in the public to uh talk about the these types of ordinances and lifting the preemption so that local governments can act.

Um so I just have a list here of the coalition cities, elected officials from these cities.

It's not saying that every elected official in these cities supports this, but it is saying that at least one elected official from that city um has either in like expressed support or um participated yesterday, and then uh we also have been partnering with these organizations as well.

So we are grateful to everybody's leadership, and it felt um just really inspiring to see how many local communities are um are uh ready to do this work.

Um, and then as far as timeline for the St.

Paul ordinance, we are planning, as I mentioned, first reading next Wednesday, October 22nd.

Um, the second reading and public hearing would be November 5th, and then third reading and final passage would hopefully be November 12th.

So I am happy to take any questions.

Councilmember Jose.

Um, thank you, Chair Johnson.

Um, and thank you, Ms.

for being here.

Uh, the exemption about transporting through the city, I I really appreciate that, and I know that some of the um some of the things that I've heard of people that might suggest why they would be against uh cities enacting their own local ordinances because then there would be you know piecemeal ordinances throughout the state, and if you were moving through the state, that you would you know need to be concerned about what you do when you get in St.

Paul.

Um but one question I had about transport through the city, does that mean what if you were to stay in the city overnight if you were traveling in going from place to place or stopping here?

I was just thinking with you know, Minneapolis St.

Paul airport being a place that a lot of people come through to get from one place to the other.

Does that apply in this situation or or or not?

Um that's a great question that I don't know the answer to, so I will find out and I will get back to you on that.

Thank you.

I don't want to guess and be wrong.

Um also should have mentioned, and I'm not sure if I did when I was talking earlier, so I want to make sure I say it is that um Representative Pinto is the um author of the bill that would lift the preemption, and so we are very grateful to his leadership on this.

Wonderful.

I have a quick question just on distinction between the 20 rounds and 10 rounds conversation since obviously we we did hear from mom to demand action that like the 10 rounds was the requested 20 rounds.

I know we had briefings, but when this is um as we're heading into the first reading for next week, I think it'd be really important to get the distinction between the types of uh rifles we'll be talking about, just thinking of the weapons that we're talking about.

There's a distinction there between 20 and 10.

And I don't think it's a small one, but I am also not someone who is as versed on guns and weaponry that are even up to that level of rounds at all.

Um, and so just really getting an understanding of the what's the distinction and what's the difference?

Because I think I understand the reasons and that was given as to like why the city has chosen to go the route that they feel that they can defend, but it'd be really helpful to understand what that actual changes in real time.

Yeah, so I will just say the ordinance um does have a definition of assault weapon in that, so it is clearly defined in the ordinance exactly what type of weapons um this would ban in St.

Paul.

Um, and we can I'll have more detail on that next week.

And then I would say on the 20 versus 10 rounds for high capacity magazines, the my understanding of the policy decision that went into that is um since the federal ban on assault weapons was lifted, the industry standard has increased from magazines being typically 10 rounds to now being between 15 and 17 rounds.

So there are probably very likely many legal handgun owners in the city of St.

Paul already who have a handgun that would not be banned under our assault weapons ban um that has a magazine of 15 to 17 rounds.

So it you know, those aren't you know, I don't want to say like the wrong terms, I know, but like they're not automatic weapons, you have to, it's like one pull of a trigger for one bullet.

Um, but they do have higher capacity magazines, and that is just like how you're they're purchased at the store, it's not um an addition.

So I think the thought was we don't want to take people who have these firearms that are all that are legal currently, they are law abiding, you know, the ordinance we don't want to put them out of compliance with an ordinance if it's not within like the spirit of the ordinance, I guess.

So, but again, this is a policy consideration for all of you.

Um it doesn't have to be 20.

Councilmember Bowie.

Thank you, Chair Johnson.

Um, and thank you so much, Brian.

Um, and I really appreciate the strong advocacy and also seeing uh one of my favorite St.

Paul uh delegates here representative um Dean for being here.

I have a uh a question particularly, and it uh fallen from the earlier um briefing from attorney Olson uh uh talking um specifically around just like what is the role of uh municipalities when it comes to uh regulation, but more specifically the serialization.

That was a new word I learned today.

Um the serialization of um of uh of documenting and tracking um um the purchasing uh of guns.

Um so I remember she had mentioned that that was something that the mayor um that we the our ordinance will um require it, but we uh don't have the capacity or municipalities aren't really designed to actually enforce it, right?

And be in the the business of like serialization um of guns.

So I'm curious maybe uh from the the rep or even um our chief um policy officer.

Has there been examples of cities or states um uh really you know utilizing state statutes to codify what serialization um does, and like is you know, I'm I guess I'll just stop right there because I I don't know much about um the the concept, but I do understand the importance of you know government entering into um a role of enforcement um and we've seen that in other examples, so I'm just curious if the state has an interest in in expanding that regulation.

Yeah, I would say um as far as the ordinance we're bringing forward, yeah, we will require all guns in the city to have serial numbers.

Um this is related to the uptick of guns that are created from 3D printing parts and then ordering the last couple of pieces online, and then you can build your own gun, and nobody it doesn't have a serial number, it's not registered.

You didn't buy it from a federal federally licensed dealer.

Um so there is an I I will have more like detail on this next week.

Um, but there is uh you know uh like sorry, I kind of lost my trade thought.

Okay, so we we don't want those guns in the city, we don't want like there is show like there's evidence that those are the types of guns that are more commonly used in crimes, or those types of guns when they exist are more commonly used in crimes.

Um but the issue is that like with the ordinance, we don't want to put the city in a position where we are then having to create serial numbers for guns ourselves because it's just it would be a big program to stand up, it would likely cost a lot of staff time and be expensive.

Also, then you know, there would be these guns in the state of Minnesota that have a serial number in St.

Paul, but the rest of the state doesn't recognize that serial number, and that would be weird um for not a very professional way to put it.

So, anyway, the point is that this ordinance would the serialization would go into effect when the state comes up with a like a program to serialize guns that don't have serial numbers.

Um, and there is, I believe, also an exception for antique guns that don't have serial numbers.

Guns that were, you know, sold like created before serial serial numbers became a thing.

And uh one more question too.

Sorry, I had uh misspoke, I mispronounced your name.

Uh, Representative Dave Pinto, I accidentally called you um Dean.

I was thinking of former Rabbi.

But um uh is that is a sterilization program is that also going to be um part of that legislation at the state level of building out that program.

I don't have an answer to that.

I haven't seen anything on that.

Um, but I I do know that there are some bills that are related to ghost guns up there, so I I couldn't speak to exactly what's in those.

Um maybe representative to Ken.

Um, so I would let him, I would defer to him on that one.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Um, and Bryn, I really really appreciate just kind of the the aspects of the coalition and as it forms.

You know, I I note that not all cities have a strong mayoral system for some of the cities that you have um actually listed their leadership as in council, and I think that as we think about just continuing to move forward and this work and how important it is.

I think the partnerships between the mayors and the city council members at the local level will be really important, not only just here in St.

Paul, but through a lot of the cities at municipal level piece uh pieces, and so I do hope that we'll continue to have that.

I appreciated the invitation for the press release.

I unfortunately couldn't make it, but I know several of my colleagues were there.

Um, and I think that's just kind of like the overall interest in being a part of something well bigger than and more important than just uh passing an ordinance here in the city of St.

Paul, but also regionally, and I and I think about the state organizing and and ways that will be really impactful to the entire country at a time where it seems like we really genuinely need to uh we need to do.

And so as we go through that, and especially from an uh just intergovernmental relations perspective, we have several organizations that I think also are um you know, and works with their council members in ways that I think for some of the state policy es and some of the signing on or supporting, um, I would hope to see reflected in our legislative agenda for this year and to this this year's session that's upcoming, but I also would just echo the importance of ensuring that you know, as we go through this process that council members are tagged in for help.

Um, as elected officials, we talk to many elected officials throughout the city and throughout the Twin Cities region.

I know of many other elected officials throughout the state, and I think being able to have that coalition building uh spaces, not to say that you guys aren't able to do that or you don't have those relationships, but definitely from colleague to colleague.

Not all cities operate um like the city of St.

Paul does, and so just really keeping that in mind and our casual conversations, we'd be we'd be more than willing to assist.

And I don't I would just extend that from my side, um, as particularly not to speak perhaps on behalf of my colleagues, but I'm I was really happy to see us take this up.

It was something that you know um that when we went to the press conference in the city of Minneapolis, um, you know, uh I went there in part in part because I think it's really important that we uh do what we can, especially at the local level, to show that unification and um being able to show that we are ready to act is not only just passing ordinances and waiting for um you know a change that would allow us to actually enforce them, but we can also build those build that coalition across the state in many ways.

And so I hope that that just you know, don't forget to tap us as we're as you guys are building and as you guys are moving.

Um, it's exciting to see.

It was really great to see the press release, the press conference and the folks that showed up the front of the um like the governor's press area probably has not been so hasn't been that diverse in a while of city elected officials talking about um why we are needing to take these steps statewide.

So just genuinely really appreciated that and all the work that went into it, and it was cool to see.

We have a lot of great faces in many different ways, and so I just know that there's a lot of there's a lot, there was a lot of mayors speaking.

Um, but we also need to work with the council members in those respective cities too, because not all of their cities are strong mayor.

Yeah, thank you, council or council member Johnson.

Um, and I will say we did extend the invitation to every council member in the state as well as all mayors.

So we did include city councils in that as well.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you.

And we had a few show up too.

Yes.

All right.

Okay, thank you.

Council member gang.

I'm sorry.

Okay, thanks, Vice Chair Johnson.

Well, first I want to say thank you to all of the leaders, members and volunteers from mom's demand action.

When I reflect on my five years here in the council, I just remember seeing so many familiar faces that keep coming back over and over again and new faces as well.

And the fact that you all are coming here on a volunteer basis, it really speaks to the heart and the passion that you have for ending gun violence, and the work is so personal, and it absolutely should be.

So I want to say thank you to you.

As I'm listening to all of our speakers today, honestly, it brings really chilling memories to me of when I was a teenager and it was past midnight.

My family received a phone call on our landline about my brother being in the hospital from a gunshot wound.

And it those are memories that I will never forget.

And the fact that we are here, it's really because we have not stopped getting those types of phone calls and seeing those types of experiences and painful, uh painful um events happen in our community.

And so I want to say thank you.

Just um I'm holding um my brother a lot in my heart right now, and I'm really glad that he is a survivor of gun violence.

And I know that the work that we're doing right now, it really will not be the um one and you know the solution to ending gun violence, but it is definitely a really important step in doing that.

And so I um wanted to state my strong support for the ordinance here, and just you know, I wanted to extend that gratitude to the staff um who are all working on this, the elected officials, my colleagues.

I I know I'm uh preaching to preaching to the choir here about the support for um these types of ordinances.

And I was wondering if any of the guest speakers can educate us a bit about the the um about serial numbers, like where typically on a firearm would that be located, and then also when I skim through the language for the proposed ordinance, I didn't see any sort of language around um around um make around like making sure that if somebody were to, for example, tamper in a firearm and try to get rid of the stereo number that there would be any sort of of um um action that we can take, you know, any any legal actions that can be taken toward that.

And so can you talk a bit about that?

And does the current ordinance already cover the proposed ordinance already covers some sort of language around that?

And so that's just a question out of curiosity.

Um so yeah, I welcome anybody to come and speak to that.

Yeah, thank you.

So the serial number is usually located on the frame of the gun, which is kind of the piece that goes around, like it holds the the trigger, it's like the larger overall um like structure of the firearm.

Um, and to your second question, it is illegal in the state of Minnesota to tamper with an existing serial number.

So um if you do anything to wipe out or burn off or or otherwise obscure a firearm, uh a serial number that exists on a firearm that is illegal, it's the creation of firearms that don't have a serial number that is unregulated currently.

Great, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, I'll take the last few minutes to work to welcome up uh State Representative Pento, and if there's things that you want to touch on that we haven't, uh please feel free to do so.

And thank you again for your partnership and being willing to lead on this work at the state level.

We recognize that it's not an easy feat, and I am genuinely just proud that we have leaders here in St.

Paul that are willing to do that.

Um, and so thank you so much for that.

And thank you for your leadership and thank you for your support.

And it's really great to see you in the chambers.

It's so nice to see it so nice to see you as well, madam chair and members.

Um, and I appreciate your flexibility.

Sorry, a little confusion on the agenda.

Um, so just a couple points.

Um, one is, and I think I think we're all aware of this in our guts, but it's important to acknowledge that this is a uniquely American problem.

Um other countries around the world have people who experience um mental health crises, um, who get angry with one another, have this various things.

Um it's only in the US, among any developed country that has the scale of uh injury and death for firearms that that we do at a scale that is way beyond uh other countries.

Um it's it's uniquely unique to us and a reminder that uh firearms are the leading cause of death to children uh in our country as well.

Um it's also important to remember that we can do things about this.

Um there was an assault weapons ban at the federal level for 10 years, and and the research shows that um Americans were safer, that there were fewer gun deaths and injuries during that time in Minnesota.

A reminder that we did pass not only the law establishing extreme risk protection orders, which we talked about, but also the law requiring criminal background checks on gun sales.

Both of those were hard fought.

It took a while, um, but they're now in place, and research from the states that have had those laws um indicates that the the residents of those states are safer, and we know the Europol law, especially there's been quite a lot of coverage of all sorts of situations where that has saved lives.

That's been really powerful as well.

Um, I want to make sure the council members are aware kind of where where things stand overall, um, even in the last few weeks.

Even in the last few weeks, there was a uh proposal from the DFL leadership in the House and the Senate and Governor Walls to have a special legislative session that would enact several proposals that DFL members um have been trying to advance, such as a ban on assault weapons.

We heard about that, ban on high capacity magazines, but also a number of proposals that Republicans have advanced, including increased spending on mental health treatment, a number of other things.

Also addressing the issue of serialization.

It was referenced that guns without serial numbers often created using 3D printers, so-called ghost guns, something that for a long time had been thought of as um as being banned in Minnesota, a gun without a serial number, and there was a recent court case that had some confusion on that.

Anyway, so a range of proposals.

Um that um uh there was a proposal from uh the DFL leaders and Governor Walls for there to be a special session to pass those wide wide variety of proposals.

That so far has been rejected by Republican leadership in the House.

It would just take one Republican to be supportive of any of those proposals.

They have not been uh supportive at this point, um, but we're gonna continue to push and continue to work.

Um, as was referenced, um, I appreciate Ms.

How's brought bringing this up?

I I'm the author of the bill to lift the preemption um uh ban that's in place right now under state law.

There is a narrower version, by the way, of that bill that's authored by Representative Hussein and Senator Papas, also St.

Paul legislators.

We got some real St.

Paul Pride going here that would allow uh greater municipal regulation at rec centers and libraries.

Um is sort of a broader version that would simply lift the preemption and allow cities to regulate.

Um both those bills were heard in the House in 2024 and received some favorable um reviews at that point, along with bills.

I should say, speaking of St.

Paul Pride, Representative Her uh has had a bill to require the reporting of lost or stolen firearms.

There's a bill to require safe storage, both of those are bills that have passed in the past.

So there's a lot that's out there to advance.

Um we do need the support of my Republican colleagues or at least one or two of them to advance some of those things, and so we're gonna continue working as hard as we can.

Um but I want to make sure that you're sort of aware of what's going on with that, um, try to think about as many different ideas as we can to deal with this uniquely American epidemic.

So appreciate you taking the time.

I'm very happy to answer any questions.

I know we're almost out of time, but thank you so much, Madam Chair members.

Thank you, Representative Fento, and especially just for bringing us up to speed on just some of the work.

We know and recognize just how strong our leadership, especially here in St.

Paul, our St.

Paul delegation and our state House members and our senators have been on advocating for uh for gun violence prevention, but also just safer gun laws overall for many, many years.

And so just want to take the time to thank you in a thankless job and thank us front, um you know, from one uh elected body to another, just simply on how important it'll be for the for our state leaders to also see the the need to address um to take up some of these pieces to revisit some of the bills that are out that are here and the opportunities that we have this year.

Um we are at time, but I will say that if you have other additional questions, I'm sure that we are able to get in contact with all the folks that have presented today, too, which are here in our city.

Um, and then for mom's demands that the mom's demand action, I know I have my office has received several emails as well, and so I look forward to that continued conversation, especially as we get into the reading of the ordinances, the feedback that you all may have, especially once um, you know, not only at the public hearing, but just in general, as we're building on to uh territory that has unfortunately not been chartered before.

I think it's really important that we um do that with community.

And so I know um I know in our office we we welcome your feedback and as the process goes along, so please don't hesitate to reach out to us.

And thank you, Jacket, so much for taking the opportunity to uh put this together.

All right, so I'll switch a route over to the to the housing redevelopment authority meeting.

We are adjourned.