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Record of Proceedings

Saint Paul Planning Commission Approves Housing Study Phase 2 Zoning Amendments on 2023-08-11

Planning CommissionFriday, August 11, 2023
BodySt Paul, Minnesota
SessionPlanning Commission
DateFriday, August 11, 2023
StatusFILED
Video Record

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Transcript — Verbatim
0:02

Everyone, good morning.

0:06

We did get the deal.

0:08

We'll go ahead and start today's meeting.

0:10

With regards to announcements, I'm always uh send out an email to the whole commission or just to steering just staring and he'll provide more information about another really cool conference that's coming up.

0:20

So I'll turn it over to him.

0:23

Uh yes, and uh chair, just to point to out that um I'm apologies.

0:27

I don't have the we don't have the minutes yet um for folks to look at, but next time.

0:31

Um so the one thing I was gonna mention because announcements, uh, good morning, everybody is uh the you probably know or heard that the national APA American Planning Association conference is happening in Minneapolis uh in April of next year.

0:44

And so there's a big uh conversation of planners going on right now in the Metro to um prepare for that uh because it's a planning conference.

0:53

We I guess they start planning early.

0:56

Um we have deadlines.

0:57

Um looks like it's been extended.

0:59

It was going to be end of August uh to submit uh mobile workshops and uh session proposals, but now I think it's September 22nd is the new date I'm seeing, which is good because it gives us a little more time.

1:10

So um what we've been doing is trying to uh apparently the the national conference needs 40 mobile workshops um for the twin cities, really, and um something like 200 different sessions uh since that's a lot.

1:24

Um and again, some of those are um gonna be sort of um well, a lot of that is going to be like nationally interesting topics uh for plan or citizens have to be all twin cities focused.

1:36

Um but you know, the more we propose, the more we'll be represented, I guess.

1:39

Um so really what I wanted to do was share that uh with you and um see if there is any anybody interested in uh maybe getting a little more involved.

1:48

We have um a few different um mobile workshops uh on our list of things that we might propose.

1:55

Um, and I can run through that list quickly.

1:57

Um so something kind of focused on Rondo.

2:00

So um could be reconnect rondo, the work of the Rondeau community land crust, um, the city we could talk about the inheritance fund.

2:07

Um there's a whole whole lot to talk about there in that geography.

2:10

Um, something uh some uh downtown related uh mobile workshop.

2:15

Um so thinking about everything from you know lower town to river balcony to um Capital City Bikeway, um Palace Theater, some of the more recent investments in the last uh five or ten years.

2:28

Um Kegan Case, Schmidt Brewery as a historic reuse and the challenges related, um Highland Bridge, um something uh that's midway focused, um, which would have a variety of different stops.

2:43

Um the green the grand round in St.

2:45

Paul uh given the recent investments in that.

2:49

Um probably uh the creative enterprise zone and tower side innovation district.

2:54

This might be one that we work with Minneapolis on.

2:57

Um and by the way, we are um meeting with the Minneapolis planners next week to uh talk about how we can collaborate on this this effort.

3:07

Um and then um probably a session on missing middle housing.

3:11

Um, and then the gold line.

3:13

There's a um uh I think it's a group of it's either the Gold Line Project Office or Washington County planners that have asked Bill Dermitty, who's our staff on Gold Line to uh participate on that one.

3:24

Um then there's some others that are kind of maybes that are less fleshed out in terms of thinking.

3:30

Um so that's that's essentially the um the general ask is could you be interested and what does that mean?

3:38

So we have a lot of staff that are gonna be working on putting in the proposal.

3:42

Um we don't have to have speaker names yet, but we have to have sort of what is the the purpose of the workshop, um, what are the learning objectives um and kind of what what are the logistics you're gonna meet for an afternoon and you're gonna go here, hear and here um and then sort of you know sort of the purpose of it.

3:58

So if you could be interested in either helping with putting up together a session or even speaking on it as one of the speakers, that would be something we would uh wanted to extend to you.

4:08

But just wanted to put that out there for consideration.

4:11

Uh let us know.

4:12

Chris Hong and I and uh Spencer Miller Johnson were kind of working on it on my team.

4:17

Um so feel free to reach out to us.

4:20

That's a great opportunity to talk about all the great work that we've been doing to advocate for same poll, I guess.

4:28

So reach out to staff.

4:29

Yep, Commissioner Warren.

4:31

Um just uh to actor Pernara about the um Schmidt Brewery.

4:38

It might be interesting.

4:40

I think that that's an important if anybody comes who is at the 2009 national planning conference.

4:47

We did a mobile workshop that looked at adaptive reuse of breweries.

4:51

Yeah, but at the time Schmidt was not at their anything.

4:54

Yeah, um, and so that would be kind of a cool thing to have.

5:00

And we had Andy used to come on board and talk about the history of the area.

5:02

Um so I think it might be in that might be an exceptional way to sort of pitch to the national conference, you know, come and see more of what we're doing because then hands is also falls in this.

5:13

That's what I was saying as well.

5:14

So very hard to any additional questions for the director.

5:23

I'll just gonna circle back a little bit.

5:25

We still need at least one more person to join the communications nomination.

5:29

There's any interest in that.

5:31

Oh, I don't uh should we'll be I think chairing it.

5:35

So if we have someone else, uh we can at least have three people on it, that'd be great.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Land Use Regulation█████████████████████████████████████████████72%
Public Engagement██████9%
Affordable Housing██████9%
Procedural███4%
Downtown Revitalization2%
Racial Equity2%
Community Engagement1%
Public Transportation1%
Summary of Proceedings

Saint Paul Planning Commission Meeting: 1-4 Unit Housing Study Phase 2 – August 11, 2023

The Saint Paul Planning Commission met to consider and act on recommended zoning code amendments from the Comprehensive and Neighborhood Planning Committee for the 1-4 Unit Housing Study Phase 2. The commission heard staff presentations, discussed fence height standards, cluster development clarifications, and building height limits for low-density residential districts, and ultimately approved forwarding the amendments to the City Council.

Announcements

  • Planning Director Luis Pereira announced the American Planning Association (APA) national conference in Minneapolis in April 2024, with mobile workshop and session proposal deadlines extended to September 22, 2023. He encouraged commissioners to participate in proposing workshops and sessions.

Zoning Committee Update

  • Commissioner Riley reported that the applicant for a conditional use permit withdrew their application. The next zoning committee meeting on August 24, 2023 will consider a conditional use permit at 50-76 West Kellogg for district energy, specifically to elevate a generator above the regulatory flood protection elevation.

Comprehensive and Neighborhood Planning Committee Discussion (1-4 Unit Housing Study Phase 2)

Staff presented recommended amendments, including:

  • Fence height standards for back lots and flag lots, with limits of 4 feet in front yard areas and 7 feet elsewhere, plus a 4-foot height limit for gates crossing required pedestrian connections.
  • Cluster development clarifications, including an exemption for lots of record larger than half an acre (e.g., around 20,000 square feet) to allow cluster developments, and a note that minimum lot width standards apply.
  • Building height maximums: 33 feet for RL and H1 districts, 39 feet for H2 (with 36 feet for flat/shed roofs). These represented a compromise developed by Commissioner Ochoa and staff to accommodate three-story construction while maintaining neighborhood scale.

Commissioner Positions:

  • Commissioner Martinson supported returning to the original public hearing draft heights of 35 feet (RL/H1) and 40 feet (H2), citing public comments and the desire to reduce variance requests.
  • Commissioner Ochoa explained that 33 feet is the practical minimum to accommodate three-story buildings with current construction methods, and he supported the staff recommendation.
  • Commissioner Grill expressed concerns that taller heights (e.g., 50 feet for non-residential uses) would be out of scale and not fit the "missing middle" concept, especially when combined with the consolidation of zoning districts.
  • Commissioner Starling and others supported the compromise, emphasizing the need for flexibility to reduce project delays and variances and to encourage the building of missing middle housing.
  • Commissioner Taghioff opposed the proposed non-residential height exemption (applying RM2 dimensional standards to RL/H1/H2), arguing it would allow institutional uses up to 50 feet by right, which he felt was inappropriate near one-story homes.

Amendments and Votes:

  • A friendly amendment to increase heights to 35 feet for RL/H1, and 40 feet for H2 (with 36 feet for flat/shed roofs) was moved by Commissioner Hood. After debate, the motion failed on a roll call vote: 6 yes, 8 no.
  • Commissioner Taghioff moved to approve the staff recommendation but remove the non-residential height exemption. The motion lacked a second and died.
  • Commissioner Riley then moved to approve the staff recommendation as originally presented (including the non-residential exemption and the 33/39 heights). This was seconded and passed unanimously on a roll call (14 yes, 1 absent).

Key Outcomes

  • The Planning Commission approved the Comprehensive and Neighborhood Planning Committee's recommendation with staff amendments for the 1-4 Unit Housing Study Phase 2 zoning code amendments.
  • The approved recommendation includes maximum building heights of 33 feet for RL and H1 districts, 39 feet for H2 (with 36 feet for flat and shed roofs), and the non-residential height exemption allowing up to 50 feet for institutional uses in RL, H1, and H2 districts (by applying RM2 dimensional standards).
  • The recommendation will be forwarded to the Saint Paul City Council for adoption.

Note: The agenda listed the meeting date as August 18, 2023; however, the provided date for this summary is August 11, 2023, as specified.

Meeting Transcript

Everyone, good morning. We did get the deal. We'll go ahead and start today's meeting. With regards to announcements, I'm always uh send out an email to the whole commission or just to steering just staring and he'll provide more information about another really cool conference that's coming up. So I'll turn it over to him. Uh yes, and uh chair, just to point to out that um I'm apologies. I don't have the we don't have the minutes yet um for folks to look at, but next time. Um so the one thing I was gonna mention because announcements, uh, good morning, everybody is uh the you probably know or heard that the national APA American Planning Association conference is happening in Minneapolis uh in April of next year. And so there's a big uh conversation of planners going on right now in the Metro to um prepare for that uh because it's a planning conference. We I guess they start planning early. Um we have deadlines. Um looks like it's been extended. It was going to be end of August uh to submit uh mobile workshops and uh session proposals, but now I think it's September 22nd is the new date I'm seeing, which is good because it gives us a little more time. So um what we've been doing is trying to uh apparently the the national conference needs 40 mobile workshops um for the twin cities, really, and um something like 200 different sessions uh since that's a lot. Um and again, some of those are um gonna be sort of um well, a lot of that is going to be like nationally interesting topics uh for plan or citizens have to be all twin cities focused. Um but you know, the more we propose, the more we'll be represented, I guess. Um so really what I wanted to do was share that uh with you and um see if there is any anybody interested in uh maybe getting a little more involved. We have um a few different um mobile workshops uh on our list of things that we might propose. Um, and I can run through that list quickly. Um so something kind of focused on Rondo. So um could be reconnect rondo, the work of the Rondeau community land crust, um, the city we could talk about the inheritance fund. Um there's a whole whole lot to talk about there in that geography. Um, something uh some uh downtown related uh mobile workshop. Um so thinking about everything from you know lower town to river balcony to um Capital City Bikeway, um Palace Theater, some of the more recent investments in the last uh five or ten years. Um Kegan Case, Schmidt Brewery as a historic reuse and the challenges related, um Highland Bridge, um something uh that's midway focused, um, which would have a variety of different stops. Um the green the grand round in St. Paul uh given the recent investments in that. Um probably uh the creative enterprise zone and tower side innovation district. This might be one that we work with Minneapolis on. Um and by the way, we are um meeting with the Minneapolis planners next week to uh talk about how we can collaborate on this this effort. Um and then um probably a session on missing middle housing. Um, and then the gold line. There's a um uh I think it's a group of it's either the Gold Line Project Office or Washington County planners that have asked Bill Dermitty, who's our staff on Gold Line to uh participate on that one. Um then there's some others that are kind of maybes that are less fleshed out in terms of thinking. Um so that's that's essentially the um the general ask is could you be interested and what does that mean? So we have a lot of staff that are gonna be working on putting in the proposal. Um we don't have to have speaker names yet, but we have to have sort of what is the the purpose of the workshop, um, what are the learning objectives um and kind of what what are the logistics you're gonna meet for an afternoon and you're gonna go here, hear and here um and then sort of you know sort of the purpose of it. So if you could be interested in either helping with putting up together a session or even speaking on it as one of the speakers, that would be something we would uh wanted to extend to you. But just wanted to put that out there for consideration. Uh let us know. Chris Hong and I and uh Spencer Miller Johnson were kind of working on it on my team. Um so feel free to reach out to us. That's a great opportunity to talk about all the great work that we've been doing to advocate for same poll, I guess. So reach out to staff. Yep, Commissioner Warren. Um just uh to actor Pernara about the um Schmidt Brewery. It might be interesting. I think that that's an important if anybody comes who is at the 2009 national planning conference. We did a mobile workshop that looked at adaptive reuse of breweries. Yeah, but at the time Schmidt was not at their anything.

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