You don't have Amber today?

We should have Amber.

I like some version.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, we've got really lucky.

Yeah.

All right.

Where's Amber?

Usually.

We need to say more.

Yeah.

This is fine.

I think this one is funny.

Oh no.

Oh no.

So I should this one be the second one.

Oh because we're not on the right.

We're not on computer setting around.

Okay.

Back out of this.

Okay, I didn't think it looked right.

So what is it that we put up?

So what was I hung up?

Why would that even know?

Yeah, I I said.

Do you want me to get a fluid of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit?

Yeah.

Is this a student project?

Yeah.

Student project.

Okay.

All right.

Yes.

And again, it's a five.

When may you shut down the application without anyone reaching out anyone can make the fact that you know all that?

Yeah.

Which is what I thought was happening.

They're not nervous.

They have to run applications all the time.

So did it ever reach out, or are you just shut up?

So we've got no idea how came.

There's no other way to hold on.

Okay, there it will shut down a completely for private clause.

So that's the first round over the next one.

I mean it's the actor in seven twenty-second.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, students.

Oh yes, yeah.

Yeah, definitely what is it?

They don't ask questions every time.

And still just remember the counselors.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, it's asking about it.

Why is this one question like that?

I've been lying too much on that.

Well, no, that's right.

And it's more expensive to build an A U.

There it is.

Okay.

We don't have as much.

We don't get that we'll have to give it a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a position.

Yeah.

I've got one guy that might come in here with me, but we'll see.

Well, that would be good.

I mean, can't be bigger than otherwise.

Oh, it's going to be fine.

Yeah, I mean people could also do, you know, pop up on the garage.

No one's even asking for that.

And that again, that's what I'm talking about.

Share it.

That's fine.

It's 8 30.

Kate, you ready?

Because it's 8 30.

Yeah.

Okay.

Good morning.

Uh this is Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board meeting of October 9th, 2025.

Present at the meeting are Nicole Fregnito.

Hi, O Gregory.

Julia Marshall.

Jeff Romano.

Hilario Donohue.

Martha Hertzberg Corporation Council's Office.

Amber Dillon.

And Kate Allater.

May I have a motion to accept the minutes of September 18th, 2025?

Accept the minutes?

Is there a second?

I'll second.

Any modifications to the minutes?

All in favor of the minutes as submitted.

Aye.

Any opposition?

Any abstentions?

The minutes are adopted.

Thank you.

The board will now conduct the public hearing on today's agenda.

First, the applicant or the applicant's representative will be invited to describe the proposed scope of work and to present any material or documentation regarding the proposal to the board.

Next persons wishing to speak in favor of the proposal will be given the opportunity to address the board.

Then persons who wish to speak in opposition will be allowed to address the board.

Finally, the applicant or representative will be given the opportunity to make closing comments to the board.

Following public comment, the board may vote to approve, approve with conditions, or deny the application just heard.

The board may also decide to hold its decision until the next public hearing.

If the hearing is closed, no additional information will be allowed into the record.

Except for information that the board may request.

That information will be available for public review with board staff.

Kate, would you like to introduce the first application?

Um the first application is certificate of appropriateness 2531.

It's for um 215 Green Street, uh, which is an individual protected site in the Holly Green neighborhood.

Um it's also in the Holly Green Historic District, uh, which is listed on the National Register.

Um this is a project for window replacement.

Um and the applicant is here.

So Jim, if you come up to the mic.

Please state your name and address, please.

My name is Jim Keller.

Uh I represent JK General Contracting, who's the contractor uh for 215 Green Street.

Uh you need any more of that information or thank you.

Uh so it's kind of a drawn-out story.

I'll try to keep it very brief, but the property had a fire back in uh August of 2023.

Uh the homeowner had searched for a contractor for over a year until he found my company, which was in August of 2024.

Uh or am I doing 24-25?

We're in 25.

Yeah, no, 25.

We're in 25 now.

So the 25, I'm sorry, 24 to 25.

Five.

Okay.

Spent a year.

The the fire happened in 2020.

24, yes.

Okay.

So uh I don't know if you're familiar with insurance claims with fire, but you have two years to recoup uh what they call um uh depreciation and hold back from the fire.

So they they pay him a certain amount, and then to get the rest, he has to complete all of the renovations within two years.

So when we received it, uh I went, I couldn't even access the property.

The property was full of mold from top to bottom because it had sat for a full year, uh including most windows, doors, uh, flooring, you name it, it was all in case encased in mold, so we hired a mole remediation company.

I actually took this job on the blind.

They were gonna uh actually turn it over to the city, and the bank was going to keep some of the funds that they received, and I convinced them otherwise that it was a liability for them, a liability for the city, and got them to actually do the mold remediation.

Once we did the mold remediation, I got to access the property uh which was in September, early September, and had to find a way to get a roof on it and get the building closed up before winter came.

Uh if it didn't, then the mold.

I mean, we the roof had a tarp on it, we couldn't even do the roof because of the mold.

So we had to do something to help preserve and protect the property.

Uh I got permission to put the roof on it and then close it up.

Our permits are still in the pending status.

And uh I had to entertain windows.

I did look at windows.

I actually looked at brown windows to put in there just because it would match better.

Uh but they were eight to ten weeks out, which would have put us into August or uh December, probably before we would receive them and be able to put them in.

So what we decided, and that you know, I didn't get in there till mid to end of September after all the remediation was done.

So what we decided to do is I looked around the neighborhood, and the house on the left of there, which isn't in the picture, has white vinyl windows, the house across the street has white vinyl windows.

So I had to act on the the time of the essence type of thing and had to get something in there.

I could get windows within two weeks, so that's how we made the decision, and we put windows in it.

Umce my application kind of went through and started getting questioned, preservation came into it, and so that's why I'm here today.

So what we did is we did it to preserve the property.

Uh windows were extensive amount of time, considerably more in an expense too, but that wasn't you know the the deciding factor.

The deciding factor was the time to preserve the property.

We did also work hard at keeping the facade.

We ordered the windows the exact same size as the windows that were there.

Uh it did have, by the way, about close to 50% of the windows were vinyl windows already in there.

Uh the fire department did their job and destroyed some more of them for us.

And then most of them were already fairly rotted and in a state of ill repair.

Uh, but we did keep the front facade as you can see uh there.

Uh it was very hard to do that, but we did keep that because I know it's important in the communities to try to keep the same look to the house.

So we kept that, had to reframe it in place and and work very hard at a lot of additional expense to keep that in place like it was.

So we have considered, you know, some of the the factors of keeping the property as uh looking as good as we could as it was prior to us being in there.

Is that it?

I I don't if you I don't know if you have questions.

I mean I'm trying to keep it brief.

There's you know no, thank you.

Um any clarifications before I ask uh anyone is here to speak in favor of the project?

I'm sorry, I just I wasn't clear.

You had reframe the facade, the facade was damaged.

Well, the fire was from the front almost to the back.

So the very front of it, all of behind it is burnt.

So we did framing and then we had to seal it, and there was a whole process that we had to do to keep that in place so that we didn't lose it.

Kept the roof line the exact same height, kept everything as much the same as possible.

Um so that there would be no changes to it.

But the fire I understood from the materials we received, the fire was contained or was only in the attic, correct?

Well, this is the third fire that's been in this house, it looks like from what we can tell.

And the fire, the fire was contained to the attic, but unfortunately, when they dumped two million gallons of water in there, it destroyed the rest of the house and created a very serious mold condition.

They spent about 70,000 dollars remediating the mold that was in there.

Uh understood.

But I'm just trying to understand the question regarding clarification for restructuring.

The restructuring happened in the attic.

The whole front wall reframing.

We we put a whole new roof on it, yes.

We put a whole new roof.

The reframing question that I asked you about the extent of that.

Was that isolated just up at the attic level?

Is that the whole front facade of the building?

This because the materials in the in the attic level.

There are a couple of walls on the second floor that were affected, but nothing significant.

Okay.

Structurally, it's more of more of what held the walls up between the rooms.

I just had a clarification.

You mentioned brown windows.

What we put white vinyl in because brown were eight to ten weeks, we wouldn't see them.

What's a brown window?

Brown.

Just the color color he might be.

So we consider that because it would be, you know, it would match a little bit better.

But I did see, you know, that many, many houses in the area have the white vinyl windows.

So I had to make a decision to protect the property, and that's how we move forward.

Understood, thank you.

Is anyone here to speak in favor?

Um here wishing to speak in opposition, can come forward.

Um not, I will close the public comment uh for the board to discuss from the board.

Did you look into wood replacement windows?

I understand you've kind of gone through your timeline, but maybe I've overheard misheard that part, but did you investigate how long it would take to get wood windows?

To get wood windows?

Oh, 12 weeks plus always.

Okay.

Always.

And Hillary.

I know Hillary that she probably could vouch for me on that.

I would say typically.

I guess I have a question.

Did you consider boarding up the openings?

We were.

They were they were leaking.

I mean, it's impossible to get a completely weather tight and prevent mold from growing again.

And they were all boarded up.

So a lot of them were boarded.

Many of them had boards over one part of the window.

Some didn't have boards when I got it.

I mean, it was a mess.

We boarded up and tried to make it as weather tight as we could, but we were consistently getting water.

I mean, it's almost impossible to make it completely weather tight.

So we're getting water down the front facade, you know, or where the windows come in, they were coming around the back side of the window boardings and that.

So there was no way to prevent that.

There are options to um secure the the building to make it weather tight.

I would disagree with you.

Um in terms of the openings to prevent um damage during construction.

It's done many times.

Comments.

We have 30 total windows in re being replaced.

Does that include all the attic as well?

That includes the entire property, yes.

Okay.

Basement windows?

Basement windows we're not touching.

They're they're intact, yeah.

Okay.

Did the owner ever discuss with you that this is like an individually listed historic property or no?

He didn't see it.

He owns the property directly across the street as well.

Do you know how long he's owned it or this property?

I think a year, not very long.

A very short period of time.

It's not too long.

It was very hard for me to put this project together, even with the bank.

It was it was a very difficult project to put together.

You know, we're looking at strict timelines with getting all of the money.

Otherwise, if I don't complete this by June to get to get everything inspected and closed by July, then he gets none of the 250, 300,000 he still is coming, which would fall back on me because I don't get paid.

So the question I have is in terms of it's stated here that half the window uh half are vinyl replacements already there.

But if I look at the chart that was provided with our packet, there are eight missing, ten are vinyl and twelve are are wood.

Ten were wood, and the other eight and the other eight were just missing, but I could be speaking wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was twelve vinyl, ten wood, and eight completely missing.

Oh vinyl.

Well, but that's nothing in the opening.

I I can't imagine how there was nothing in the opening, but there was nothing.

It's 10 wood, okay.

So we've got 10 wood windows, we've got eight that are missing and 12 that are vinyl.

Correct.

But the the other ones that were wood that were there were not savable.

I mean, they were rotten and broken.

I mean, when they get smashed out, you know, nobody takes the time to just break the glass.

My trouble here is I I understand the timeline and the restrictions and the insurance.

Um generally that's out of our purview as we look at historic resources within the city of Syracuse.

So my trouble here is I'm looking at this is it's an individually listed structure.

So that to me it gives it more prominence, and so the standards should be uh followed more strictly, and vinyl windows to me is is not an option for this structure, regard irregardless of the of the time frame that's being imposed.

And I'm I'm just letting you know where my thought is.

Did you look at you know fiberglass windows?

We do look at fiberglass windows as also as an option within historic districts.

We just we just looked at what we could get in there to protect it.

So I you know, and I did look at the brown color, so that that could have been an option.

Um the other problem with this is and it's going to become if you get into something like a wood window that's a thousand dollars a piece.

This property probably the project will probably stop because he'll overfund it and then the property will remain as it is and not get repaired.

So he has a very limited funds to do a is this eligible for tax credit project.

Pardon?

There are federal tax state and federal.

State and federal tax dollars that are available to set the cost.

But we're dealing with a time restraint.

So if I wait until all of that is approved to put those windows in, then we would have run into problems.

I mean, he did ask me about I I mean I do work for the county and and do windows all of the time, and I know that there's different resources, but those typically take a long time.

The buyer bought a property that's individually listed, and if he couldn't tell looking at it, that somebody put a lot of care and attention into keeping it in this condition.

Um he must have had some inkling that this was a significant property when he purchased it.

And part of the commitment is maintaining it.

So I understand emergency conditions, but it's listen, I'm just the contractor in the end.

If you're not gonna if you if this becomes over budgeted, we just shut it down, we give it back to the city, they'll get it however it is, and it'll sit for two or three years the way it is until they get I mean, or maybe the right person comes along or absolutely.

I'm just saying I'm I'm trying to I'm doing the best I could with what I had.

And we understand your position.

Yeah, absolutely.

We have to follow the interior uh secretary's standards.

Sure.

Um we can't look at it from the time frame or from a money frame.

We're looking at it in terms of uh preservation of buildings within the city of Syracuse.

Um I'll leave it at that.

Any other comments, questions?

Um the roof is secured, the roof is replaced, and now you're just it is all dry now.

The property is dry, so we're waiting for for our permits to be finalized so that we can continue.

And we have temporary electric there now.

Okay.

So it is moving forward.

So here today what we're looking at is only window replacement.

Correct.

The roof is complete.

Yeah, we're not doing anything else outside.

So they're all dried in.

Yes.

And you've got services.

So at this point it is contained in terms of weather tightness?

Yes.

Okay.

Couldn't I have sure?

Are all the windows actually replaced at this point?

There's attic windows that still have not been replaced.

So that's what we're looking at right now.

We couldn't we couldn't get to the attic until recently.

It's a you'd have to be there to see it to see why we we couldn't get up there, but we're working on doing that now.

Craigmir, I I have major reservations of approving vinyl and an individually designated structure.

That's that's my greatest hesitancy.

Um seeing that half of them are already in, there are the first seconds or everything's all in.

Um so you're coming to us afterwards.

Um again, that's another kind of uh hiccup in the in the timeline here.

Um from my perspective, I I would not permit vinyl windows in this structure in this district.

And um, speaking for myself, the rest of the board can agree.

Uh can speak to that.

Um I I have major reservations on this.

I there's I understand the timeline, but again, we're looking at historic structure and we're looking at historic materials irregardless of the time.

Pardon part of my decision was made based on other houses in the neighborhood, though, so that's part of my now that it's right, you know.

Two rights don't make a wrong.

I'm not saying that, but that was part of my decision that I said, you know, we're gonna move forward just to protect the property, and that's a decision we made.

So understood.

Um and again from our perspective, we're we're looking at preservation of historic materials.

May I remind the board to look at the secretary material standards and state that as part of the comment just so that we take those into record in terms of what you're applying to it?

And that's all in your packet.

Refresh which one it is.

Sorry.

I think one it would be uh standard number two, the historic character of the property will be retained and preserved, the removal of distinctive materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize property would be avoided.

And then folks are believed that standard number six would apply deteriorated historic features will be repaired rather than replaced, where the severity of the deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature will match the old in design, color, texture, and where possible materials replacement of missing features will be substantiated by documentary and physical evidence.

Are there any other standards that would apply?

Those two speak best to this project at hand.

If not, may I have a motion on this application?

May I ask a question?

Is there a note in there for emergency or is there a note in the standards for emergency type of things or anything like that?

There's no notes for that in the standards of book.

There's there's nothing uh in terms of timing or uh emergency situations.

Um having said that, I think uh well, it's clear that the my understanding is that the roof reconstruction was um uh you were permitted to go forward with the roof reconstruction without having gone through all the the correct because of an emergency situation in terms of the of the property.

So um, but within the preservation ordinance, there's um there's no language in terms of and at this point you've stated that the building is secure in first.

Well, it's secure right.

But we did, but we did put the exact same size and all of that, so we didn't want to change the outside facade at all.

So yeah, um I'll make a motion to deny the application for uh the installation of vinyl replacement windows based on secretary standards number two and number six.

I'll second time.

Any discussions or modifications to motion?

Um I think that that is an option that will help make this feasible financially.

Um especially if you do revisit either wood or fiberglass or another alternative accepted material for the windows.

So you will you will accept fiberglass?

Is that we have in the past then other individually uh registered structures?

Do I have to ask permission for the color?

I mean, we're gonna go brown if we do if that's what's being imposed, if we can make it happen.

Sorry, go ahead.

That would just be submitted in your application.

Submit it with your application.

If brown is matching your your color scheme and supports the historic integrity of the structure, then should be fine from my point of view.

All in favor of the motion.

Any abstentions?

Motion um so I will send you the resolution.

Um the owner does have the option to appeal the decision to the planning commission.

Um, but we can discuss uh what that looks like as well as um if you want to um submit uh revised or new rather be a new application uh with a different uh window type.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Once they're ready, do you want to introduce the yes?

And is the site plan review this is a site plan review?

Yes.

Yep.

Oh, sure.

If you want to be in control actually, you could you could just click through.

And if I have to, I'll get up and start touching the screen or something.

No, I'll uh you'll do that right now.

Okay.

Well, while while you're doing that, I will introduce the new the next application.

It is a major site plan review 2524.

Um this is for 325 45 South Warren Street, which is the Onondaga Hotel project.

Um the uh the building is in the South Lina Street has uh downtown historic district, the expansion area.

So listed on the National Register.

Uh and this is the final draft.

I believe you have seen at least a couple different iterations of this proposal.

Um and last spring approved the demolition of the garage that's next door.

And with that, and our role is to review and comment.

Is to comment, that's right.

So thank you.

Brian Bouchard with CHA Consulting, we're the project engineer working on behalf of the uh owner developer and applicant Dave Newman, who's also uh here with us today.

Uh so by way of introduction, um, I probably don't need to spend too much time talking about the buzz and interest in this project uh as we've discussed it with Eric and the the mayor's office to bring a new uh hotel and convention center space uh directly into downtown Syracuse and myself having been a part of a lot of the renovations of some of the aging hotels in the area that's been converted to multifamily.

This is a very refreshing project to work on to provide that convention center space uh in downtown uh in support of things like you know, NCAA and March Madness and the ability to bring large conventions uh into the city here.

So um just the first page described to you the site, which you're all familiar with.

It's four existing parcels that are highlighted here in red at the corner.

Uh it's basically the southeast corner of East Fayette and South Warren Street.

Uh so north is to the plan left here, South Warren Streets to the bottom of the page.

Um there's three vacant parcels plus the existing parking garage, so it totals about 1.15 acres, and all the parcels are in the MX5 zoning district.

As Kate mentioned, this includes demolition of the existing parking garage, which is currently condemned and uh quite structurally unsound by way of some of the structural reports that you have seen uh in working with the applicant last March uh to review and approve that resolution to uh demolish the existing structure within the uh historic downtown district.

That did include some extensive research and historic documentation that was provided to this board, and since then we've also provided that to uh SHIPO um for their approval to remove that structure as well.

And uh by way of letter of resolution, I've worked with them to make some changes to the facade that they've requested that I'll show you.

But they were very minor comments.

Essentially, some of the initial sketches showed a water tower element at the top that they felt was was sort of out of context.

So that has disappeared, and then some minor touches to the first floor where they requested that we change to a more traditional storefront with recessed entries, display windows, transoms, and some very finer details.

And then one change to some metal cladding that we had, and we replaced that in favor of some glass fiberglass reinforced concrete materials with a masonry-like appearance to provide that contextual commercial facade.

The other things in the letter of resolution include what is very typical, right?

So recording all of that historic documentation with uh SHIPO and the National Archives and also the On Daga Historical Society, uh, and then the applicant's willingness to provide a historic plaque either on the front facade of the building or in the entry vestibule to you know essentially commemorate the uh the existing structures that were removed and then continued consultation with the design process if there are any changes that come forward.

Um so this will include a companion piece with the planning commission in terms of combining these projects into one contiguous parcel to support the singular new building, which is um construction of a 10-story building that I mentioned is is much needed in terms of the city's uh request for some hotel rooms and convention center space, along with actually some commercial space that I'll show you if you do want to go to that first floor plan and quickly walk you up the building as we get to the renderings and elevations in the back.

So on the hard corner of Fayette and Warren is a two-story restaurant space.

So you walk in and it's got an open ceiling with some seating space on the second floor that would look down at the bar area.

The remainder of the first floor does have our access to the parking garage, which is a multi-level parking garage.

So we have the parking entry.

There is some parking on the first floor, and then you'll start to snake up to the parking garages.

The other space uh that you see on the first floor here is some um the hotel entry and and valley insecurity right off of South Warren, right in the center of the building.

Uh, and then some supportive space for our mechanicals and fire command center, sprinkler systems and back of house space for for the hotel support, essentially, like laundry, staff offices, and housekeeping.

Um the second through fourth floors uh are very much stacked.

You can see the restaurant space continuing up to the second floor that would overlook the entry to that restaurant on the corner.

And then essentially the rest is just the elevator core and parking garage that stacks up through the fourth floor.

If you can get through those next couple of pages, it's purely parking.

Uh and then when we get to the fifth floor, this is where we start the um double-loaded corridor for the hotel rooms.

So these are very much typical floor plans that are stacked for hotel rooms for floors five uh through nine.

Uh so we can skip through those two.

And then we'll stop at the tenth floor here, which is kind of um you know the centerpiece in terms of the convention center space.

The tenth floor, if you scroll down just a little bit, uh, is showing about 4,000 square feet.

4,000 square feet of uh bank room.

Sorry about that.

Yeah, right on the 10th floor.

There we go.

Uh so all the way over on the left on the corner is uh 4,000 square feet of banquet room space, and then in the center, as you would expect of a convention center is really flexible convention space with breakout rooms, uh the restrooms, and some um uh convening space out in front there.

Off to the right-hand side of the page is gonna be our 10th floor restaurant, hotel lobby lounge, lobby bar, uh, a small exterior um patio, uh, and then obviously all the kitchen and prep space that would serve both that restaurant and the convention center space.

Um we have 321 parking spaces, 248 rooms, and a total of 26,500 square feet of that convention center banquet uh and restaurant space.

And what we've included that probably wasn't in the original materials.

We worked last week to get Kate some colored elevations and a prospective rendering that's the most up-to-date version.

Uh so we can go to those.

Uh and hopefully you've had a chance to look at them.

There's a couple of things I'll point out here in terms of the material pallets that you'll see memorialized on the right-hand side of the page.

The majority of the building is thin brick in a variety of different courses.

So we have running bonds, soldier courses, and stack bonds.

Then there's also the fiber glass uh fiber reinforced uh concrete uh that I mentioned earlier with some accents of tile uh and epis and perforated metal screens to kind of screen that parking garage structure, completing the building with the bases and in a granite base and concrete base.

Uh one thing that I believe you discussed with the applicant prior to my involvement was saving the P A R K sign, the park sign.

Um so you'll see that in uh right in the center of the building just over our new park and garage entrance.

So that sign will be removed prior to demolition, it'll be refurbished and reinstalled on the building uh to keep that piece, and then there's some other signage that we haven't talked about with the planning commission yet that would be on the corner of Fayette and Warren that would kind of designate this as the Onondaga Hotel.

Um some of the other things that you see here in the elevator core, the architects created this multicolored uh vertical element that's really a large format tile that they've chose to express uh that elevator core is a vertical element, and really the purpose of that was drawing on some of the historic motifs and art deco influences from the surrounding area.

One thing that I did want to clarify, you know, the the little yellow piece that you see in the bottom in our hotel entrance is looking very yellow, uh, but that is basically an opaque piece of glass that will be backlit.

So it's just lighting, and it was hard to render that lighting.

Uh I do have an example.

It's better in the print.

Yeah, I have an example of what they provided to me as an inspiration.

Basically, over the hotel, you know, it has kind of that cross-tachmental pattern with an opaque glass.

So it's not a yellow panel, it's just a backlet that's represented.

Like an onyx type of um, and then you know, I mean, you're probably all architects, but you can see like the green and blue blotches that are in the bottom are just left over from the Revit model that weren't scrubbed in time for the printing.

So there um those won't be like green and brown panels, but uh give away all your secrets.

Yeah, so uh those are the colored elevations.

We gave you all four sides.

This is the prominent one facing South Warren.

Uh and then I think if you scroll down, you can kind of see actually right at the top in the south elevation, you'll see that P A R K the park sign that projects off into the South Warren Street elevation there.

Uh and then if you scroll down, you're still available here to Banawite me.

Um again, this is from the Fayette side, so you still see those those storefronts in the second um floor of that restaurant projecting onto the uh the Fayette side with that PARK sign that's in the middle of the building on Warren Street.

Um and then the photorealistic rendering is sort of the last page that we can stop on to give you a sense of what the building looks like contextually within the surrounding streetscape here.

Oh, you might have to zoom out just a little bit.

Yeah.

There we go.

So ask you quickly about the sign.

Is that the current location of the sign, or is it moved in terms of it's really close to the current location?

That is directly above our parking garage entrance, which seems as though it's the most appropriate place to put it.

Um the existing location may be not too far down the building to the to the right, closer to Pavones.

I think the signage is closer to the Pavone side, yeah.

Further south.

And is it projecting out any further than it is currently?

I don't believe so.

Okay.

No.

I think obviously we'll have to reconstruct the the cribbing and structural supports for it.

Um, which is what's kind of represented here.

Obviously, the signage approval in terms of its size and and everything else will be separate.

So if there is and this is obviously an encroachment too, so there's some things that we'll have to do with the city, and there will be certainly opportunity to state what that projection is and maybe get a little bit more detail on you know how it's fastened to the building and what that structure looks like to capture that.

It's encroaching.

Yeah, I think all of it is, right?

There's that huge overhang.

Well, I was gonna ask you what happens to that overhang, because that's fairly distinctive.

Right.

Um almost looks like plain.

Yeah.

Uh well, it's it's it's gonna get demolished with this structure.

It's gonna be old sort of structural thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Just because it's encroaching now, doesn't mean a new sign can encrunch because it's correct.

It's a whole consumer project.

Uh right.

But I'm just curious what's gonna happen with that.

Because that's the part of the garage, and it's a significant element of its history.

I think um part of the documentation, presumably the photographic documentation of the of the building.

Um drop it off.

I think um your house.

I think Dave had worked closely, obviously, with the uh historical society, and and there is a lot of really cool like old pictures of it, and some of that will be commemorated on the plaque, I'm sure, too.

So I also think what Julia's commenting towards was initially um the initial conversations was can we try to keep an element like that along the streetscape?

Since that was such a heavy distinctive feature from the existing building in an historic district.

Yeah.

And carrying that through somehow.

And I think that that's more I think of the case.

I would say the struggle there is that it is.

It does project so far out that its purpose was almost to maybe uh you know, provide some some rain relief or uh or something.

It projects so far out though.

If you were to do anything like that with the with this building, you'd you'd lose the the view of of the building and everything else.

It would become the only feature of the building at that point.

So understood the the comment though.

Yeah.

Um so the uh datam line that's shown here for the parking lot, that's a four-story datam line, correct?

Correct, where you see the initial ground floor that reaches up into those other three floors.

Um those are the parking garage structures, and then that lighter brick color starts those five floors of the hotel units, yeah.

Then obviously the conference center being on the the upper floor is the other grade plane that we have there.

That's quite traditional.

Very nice.

Um with the right comment.

Yeah.

Um I do have one comment in terms of the parking garage doors off to the right over there.

There are service doors all the way to the right on the on the first.

Correct.

The only entrance is the open garage entrance in the center.

The other two doors are for national grids equipment, because obviously in downtown we have to place that all in the building.

So we do have a service dock that would be um open for trash pickup and or supporting services for laundry and other things, and then the transformer um interior transformer vaults.

Maybe it's an element of of the rendering, but that pops out at me is inconsistent with the rest of the elevation in terms of perhaps the color or the type of material that's used.

Um you could consider some other material or some other way of uh defining that.

Obviously, you need it.

I understand that, but as far as the elevation, it kind of light doors.

Essentially that they're lighter and kind of sticking out to you in terms of its color.

And kind of want them to blend in that elevation.

I somewhat agree with you.

So we'll make a um we can make that revision to tone it down.

Because it's a pedestrian way, and whenever you're up against that kind of surface, it's not really pedestrian.

Well, and in fact, making it darker and blending it in because traffic all comes from the south on South Orange Street.

You know, if you see a parking garage door, maybe you'd be inclined to try and pull in there even though it wouldn't open for you.

So exactly.

Exactly.

It's kind of even though the park sign, and I appreciate that the you know, the preservation of the park sign, and it identifies where you should enter the parking garage.

Someone who's not familiar might assume that's another entry.

I agree too.

And if I'm understanding each datam line actually pulls back away from you know the building a little bit, so it gives it that hierarchy.

Correct.

Yeah, with the cornersing that you're seeing, correct.

Yeah.

Can you speak a little bit more to the GFRC, I think I'm reading is what's on the sort of base course at the retail street level.

Can you just I can't tell.

Am I looking at something that's like a rendering repeat, or is it actually have some sort of texture that will be expressed?

I think that what you're we what you are seeing is like the repeat of the rendering.

You know, it looks uh computer generated, obviously.

It is textured though.

Reads like a large base.

The the alligatoring at the base.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's the rendering.

Yeah, that's why I just was trying to understand from uh the brick I get, the other materials I get, but I wasn't clear on sort of the scale and the massing and what that might actually be expressed as.

Yep.

Yeah, I think it is just so just to repeat what is the base course material.

Right.

Well, it says it's GFRC, if that's correct on the architects.

The the base material is the um GFRC, yes, the glass reinforced concrete paneling.

Yep.

And there's the two colors last year.

And the material above that.

That says that's a thin brick, I think.

Right?

Yeah, the thin brick and the alligator.

Well, I'm I'm talking about the one that that's green on the bottom that reads almost like a large format tile.

That's the GFRC, but I'm not quite clear exactly how that's expressed or um.

Yeah, if you go back to maybe the the two-dimensional colored elevation would be better to see what the cross hatching is to tell you which thin brick course there is there.

Yeah, there we go.

There it is.

Yeah.

Zoom in.

Yeah, so you could see that um you know the granite base along the bottom that's filled in by that um there's a granite based wear.

Right on the bottom, right on the base, yeah, the first two feet.

Yeah, the base course there.

Then it transitions as you go up.

Oh, exactly.

So it's set at the wear, and when you want to have a GF.

Yeah, I think what the rendering is as you had mentioned, it was kind of more just the computer generated pattern of it.

Um versus what you're seeing here with the paneling and the the actual score lines in it.

These will be large panels with reveals and it's green.

My next question.

No, it's not green.

If you go over to the side there, it'll have the stuff.

Well, right, right, right.

What is what is the actual I mean as we're as we're surfing for this, I I just said a couple quick comments.

Um as Julia mentioned, the scale is great.

It follows historic uh construction.

You know, we've got a base, we've got a shaft, we've got a capital that reads really clear and detailed, um, appreciative of that.

Um to me it's got an urban feel for the streetscape, interactive, uh works well in this downtown core.

I think Warren Street being a narrower corridor you with a 10-story building, you really start to feel you're in the center of a really urban space.

Almost like it was back in the day, right?

Well, I I think I from the historic photographs are like five, six story buildings, I think.

So, you know, uh on this side of the block at least.

So I I think that starts to recreate that that scale and that sense and that space uh really well here uh with this structure.

Um comment the the packet that we have in front of us is slightly different where your four-story belt course is broken now with the elevator shaft.

Yes.

And the packet information that we have, it wasn't.

Kind of feel it's stronger with it continuing all the way down.

Um again, but that you know that's just me reading the whole that whole base, the whole podium that this building sits on.

But that was a stronger element there.

I understand the verticality and the tiles, I think is great in the mixture of header and stretcher uh brick.

Um is very strong.

Okay.

This is the most current, yes.

Yeah, so in the in the packet it shows the header.

Onto the ground, right?

So I'm I'm just uh I don't have an issue with that verticality of what it is.

I I I like the verticality element.

I just thought it was stronger with the base going through that second, the third and fourth story, if you want to call it that.

Um but that that's just my own comment.

But it's very strong element.

I I like the tile.

Um I like the different textures of the brick, the stretchers, the headers.

Um that that play, I think, really starts to break up the facade and uh really starts to give it some detail and a level of interest that uh we don't typically see in a structure of this size.

Yeah, I think part of the reason for that is if you looked at the second floor plan, you're gonna see that the garage has an elevator lobby between the two elevators.

So that was a continuation of that yellow opaque um backlit area for the the positioning of the elevator lobby.

Otherwise, if it continued all the way down, that portion of the elevator lobby might be a little dark, but I'm just I'm saying this one that was submitted, I feel stronger than that one.

Understood, yeah.

But that's my own comment.

I'm not, yeah.

It was early on.

I understand the idea of it, but it really didn't make sense.

And it wouldn't have been functional, obviously, too.

You know, when you do look across like Franklin Park and stuff, there's there's some that are existing.

So I think when an architect looks at large at the city and tries to pull inspiration, that was maybe something that they started with that kind of quickly got taken off the top of the building.

But not Syracuse.

Was your easement issue resolved?

Yes.

Yeah.

Um Dave's been working with uh the YMCA folks to uh resolve that rear egress, and there is still a a path uh forward both through construction and the demolition of the existing garage, and and then obviously the um pathway that we still have between us and Pavones that's gonna give us the respect that we need and windows that we need, and also allow for some egress through that um side alley too.

Yeah.

There is no mirrored glazing.

No, there is no mirrored glazing.

Obviously, the rendering kind of picks that up with what's behind it in the Google Earth image.

So I mean you'll see it.

It's it's not a I don't believe it's a mirrored, it's not a mirrored glass, it's just because of the well, the narrow street and also because that was a miss with the excel the the building across the street, that was a miss.

Uh that the that they went ahead and put in tinted glass that or very day or mirrored or and or tinted tinted glass that um that was it becomes problematic for the pedestrian experience.

Any comments if I all the comments that are here, it appears that we're looking at this favorably.

Um we appreciate the time that they present all the materials and as the process goes on, it'd be good to see the actual materials that you are suggesting and the colors.

Yeah.

So what I will bring back in very short order.

So our meeting with the planning commission is on October 20th, so essentially a week and two days away.

Um that's a very important meeting for our financing schedule and closings that we have coming.

So I did make some notes about kind of the green tints and clarifications and mirrored glass and stuff like that.

I'll bring that back to the architect today, and we'll make sure that we get a rendering produced prior to the 20th.

And if I have the ability to share that with Kate as far as a staff review, and she can get it to you guys for comment before that meeting.

That would be helpful to us so that we can make sure that um you guys are all satisfied before we get to that planning commission meeting in hopes of approval that night.

So if I'm reading this correctly, ratio is the architect of record.

Correct.

Design architect and the architect.

Yes.

Okay.

Yep.

Will that be coming back again?

Uh in terms of sign permit, or is this the goal is to obviously um get our planning commission approvals on the 20th.

That will be representative of the intent of signage.

But because there are encroachments out into the right-of-way, and likely exceeding size, perhaps, and maybe the projecting sign, which I think there's a little bit different rules on the rezone Syracuse, will represent them, but it will not be part of the planning commission's approval.

We will take the signage package back separately, and I would assume that by way of referral to to you two, this would be the first stop that we can talk to you about those details as uh a sign waiver and encroachment get processed separately of the site plan review.

Okay, thank you.

And lot coverage and so forth.

Yeah, obviously those are building setbacks, and you can see that the attempt here is to have a zero setback or a nominal setback.

So anything that projects off of the building in terms of the canopy entries at the hotel or the signage will project into the right-of-way, and is a fairly intensive process to go through with both the planning commission and ultimately the common council to approve those is revocable permission.

Obviously, in this case it's not that big of a deal because it's overhead and wouldn't obstruct any utilities or anything, but that will be an opportunity to come back to you with the the signed package as we get further along.

But the right to build is what we're working on now.

So excellent project.

Thank you.

I appreciate your guys' comments.

And um, I guess the referral goes back to the planning commission through you, right?

That's correct.

Okay.

Good.

Yep, thank you.

Thanks for your time.

Oh, yeah, okay.

Looks really good.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that was really, really good.

Come a long way.

No, I agree.

Yeah.

All right.

Are we ready to go for the next one?

Or our final piece on the agenda.

So the final piece in the agenda is a discussion item.

Um we have the folks from Nelson Associates back again today to talk about uh some work uh the next piece this of the ongoing work to restore and uh rehabilitate the uh the Niagara Mohawk building.

And I'll just hand it on over.

Thank you for hearing us again.

Uh yeah.

Welcome.

We um my name is Peter Nelson, and uh I'm with Nelson Associates Architectural Engineering.

Uh we've been commissioned by National Grid to design the SOC building A facade uh restorations.

And last time we came, we talked about uh the ornate spandrel panels that are in dire need uh from an emergency standpoint and a safety standpoint to be uh replaced, and we've spent a lot of time uh on that.

Uh today we want to talk about uh part of the restorations is uh the capstones, the ornate capstones um around the building.

And uh to talk about that today, uh Andy uh Morgan uh is our principal architect and the design team, uh Justine Kamer and uh Jingjing Woo.

And they've been working very hard and because it's very complicated, it's very involved, and we're trying to maybe correct some of the wrongs of the past uh past renovations in there.

And uh we've spent a lot of time, we've been going to different uh uh um uh colleges and universities to review capstones and how they're handling them.

Um there's a lot of uh advancements that have been there to uh protect uh the brick below uh to flash it properly.

Um we can talk about uh some of that.

So I'm gonna turn it over to Andy and and uh Jingqing and uh to talk about uh our plan.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.

It's good to see everyone again, especially on a happy note like this.

So uh the first thing we'll do is I guess there's some photographs we have of the exterior just to refresh everyone's uh memory on what's going on and let's try the next one, Jing Jing.

Yep.

So just for a point of reference, the capstones that we're discussing today are at the top of the parapet walls on the multi-level multi um uh areas on the uh exterior of the building.

This all started um years ago, I'm thinking just after the 2000, the capstones were clad in a copper uh copper cladding when the re-roofing was done.

What we found is the capstones underneath that copper is starting to deteriorate because water infiltrated and spalled some of those.

So we're concerned that when we're gonna take the copper off, and when we find that we may find that some some or most of the capstones will be beyond uh repair.

So we're planning on um having new capstones made to match these.

And I guess the next elevation or next there's some close-ups.

And you'll notice on some of these, not all the capstones are simple rectilinear.

Some are very intricate.

Uh let's go to the next one.

Yeah, you can see this um the detail on the top there, just above one of the uh the stainless steel fins just to the left of it.

There's uh capstone.

The idea on this, the owners asked us because this was prompted by a re-roofing project that's needed.

The capstones are going to be removed, and we're planning on putting new flashing on top of the parapet walls because we feel that besides the uh infiltration of water uh on the um copper that's cladding these, water came in behind is going into the parapet walls and deteriorating that.

So we want to avoid that.

Also, we want to make it so that when we re-roof and future re-roofs, we have a way to bring up to the flashing on the sidewall, the inside of the parapet, and then replace from that point down and still keep the parapets intact.

The uh stone capping.

Let's see the next one.

Yeah, you can see some of the deterioration and was the parapet all masonry, and those are panels that were installed?

Yes, unfortunately.

Uh, this on the interior, so you're not seeing it.

It's on the interior of the roof portion.

Top of the capstone is lead-coated copper.

Yes.

With stainless steel flashing.

Yes.

Okay.

We had nothing to do with that.

We had nothing to do with that.

Well, I guess that's my question.

Was that the renovation that was done or the restoration that was done?

Not that long ago, yes.

No, it was not that if you actually go on Google or Street View, you can see back images far enough back when the the flashing was not there.

So it it was early than Hyatt.

16, we think, 2016.

Yeah.

That well, that's the thing.

I don't know the the timeline.

I do know that many years ago Clapperhan and Hyatt did it, but it was only it wasn't the entire perimeter.

There were certain capstones that were like, Yeah, uh it was after that.

Okay.

Is when it was clad.

It was an idea somebody had that they thought it was not them.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, good.

So we're trying to get back to that point.

Okay.

All right.

Good to know.

Yeah.

And what is the material actually off of the roof that comes up on the on the parapet?

Yeah, no.

Oh, that yeah, that's that's that's a flashing, uh roof flashing.

That will that'll be different when they do the roofs.

That's what that was done on the last roofing project.

I'm not familiar with that kind of yeah, it's it's it's uh it's a heavier flashing that has like a um metal cladding on it.

Oh that's all.

And it's oh and it's made it so that it's flexible.

That's all.

Right, it's a it's a membrane.

Okay, okay.

For um for for vertical surfaces.

It may not be that expensive, but I think it's just there to keep keep the um the UV rays off it, and it has the uh uh uh coursing in it or bending in it so that it's flexible to around surfaces.

And it's not not that pretty in terms of detailing.

Right.

Well, more probably the workmanship I'm commenting.

Yeah, yeah.

Jing Jing, let's see the next one.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is this is a photograph of some of the different shaped capstones that we have.

And what we did was we we also have uh plans showing uh representation of what the multi-types of pla of uh capstones we have and where they're located.

It also looks like the masonry was replaced.

Right.

Oh yeah.

So is have you documented whether because I'm also looking at some white people?

So is the brick damaged below this capstone as well?

Some of it is, and that has to be replaced.

We do have brick that matches the existing that we found.

Okay for that.

Sorry, everything that we're seeing there.

I'm not seeing any stone.

This is all the lead-coated copper that I'm seeing in this picture.

It's like fully encapsulated.

Yeah.

That may have there's a few areas in the back that may have missed the the newer additions and whatnot.

But the images we're seeing that this is the ones we're going to do.

No, that's why I'm asking.

And I think that's probably why it was allowed, but obviously it's prevented water from leaking out.

It yeah, and also once that lead-coated copper, maybe through freeze thaw cycles opens up, it just lets everything in.

Can we zoom in on that?

Let's see, uh, maybe there's a better.

Yeah.

Yeah, see the it's kind of streaky too, if you notice from the water running on it.

Okay, maybe we'll go to the next uh hopefully we'll get to the plans quickly.

Yeah, these are just a tie-in where there's panels, spandrel panels, that aren't the black ones we discussed in our last meeting, where these are uh cast stone and uh how the parapet So you're proposing to replicate all the exactly uh Yeah, it's pretty brave.

What's that?

Pretty brave.

It's it's a well as long as we have the craftsmanship up there to do that.

Well, um are we coming up to the the drawings yet?

That's good.

Yeah, this will be interesting.

So just to give the committee a sense of uh some of the few types of options or uh variations on the capstone.

Jing Jing, if you can zoom in on some of them once once everybody sees uh this level, this is just an example of some of the different capstones that are there.

Was it fun to get up on the roof and measure the thing?

Fortunately a lot of it was detailed on the original.

Oh yeah, yeah, the original drawings are thorough.

Without CAD.

Yeah.

Imagine that.

Were they on linen?

Probably the originals were in the twenties.

Oh, you just had a picture that looked like we don't have the original.

Oh, these ones?

We don't have these.

It's and it's large in size.

Uh some of these are over four feet long.

So who is gonna replicate it?

You have a manufacturer that's well you looking at.

What's that?

For a price.

Um this um exterior parapet wall detail shows our design that uh as Pete had mentioned, we work with uh uh masonry contractors that have done this type of work throughout New York State.

And in this particular one, the idea is once you have the roof parapet wall sealed, you would attach the parapet capstones with an eye and a pin into each one, and each one goes next to us.

So it keeps it in place so it's not physically attached to the parapet, and it allows the capstones if they get wet to dry out and weep.

And the I think on the detail?

Yeah.

Detail on the side.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just slide over, Jing Ching.

That uh that mouse is a little tricky.

Yes.

Yeah.

So we have um the idea is we the point from the bottom of the uh uh capstone to the top of the parapet, that's opened open in terms of ventilation.

And the joint between each capstone.

Now remember, if these are four feet long, we may um end up having to make them in smaller pieces, but we'll still have the the same identical look.

And then the space between them it gets um caulked on the front and then the top, so the back side is open so that it can weep out and um uh water can dissipate.

And you have paper permeable map room.

Yes.

And as you notice the the owner asked us to have uh that offset counter flashing drip edge, so that in the future, new roofs, we just go to that counter flashing and roof up to that point and keep everything else as is.

And the beauty of this is if we have a capstone in the future that gets deteriorated or something happens to it, you can replace that without having to re uh disassemble the entire roof.

And that counter flashing will be what?

Stainless steel?

Probably something like that.

I'm also thinking in terms of what you see, and you see that.

Uh you shouldn't that's on the inside.

Oh, you see that from the interior of the building looking out.

This is it on the ex this is on the uh inside of all the parapets.

Yeah.

So basically the entire joint will be void except for a beat of ceiling.

And that doesn't have to be, but we thought, you know, we we visited a couple visited a few sites where the joints between the stones were let's say uh half inch or so.

Well, when the sunlight's right, you can see right through that.

So we thought to avoid that if you caulk up and down the top, we still have the whole backside open.

Okay.

The only thing I I will say, I mean, you've got the vented you have a vent, you have a weed.

Yep.

But maintenance always puts ceiling where they and I don't disagree with you.

However, the sealant in our minds is gonna be more aesthetic than functional.

So the joints could be open and be fine.

We just want that and uh to for the the visual effect of having a solid and not some point see a uh joint there.

We could just go up the straight up the vertical and not on the horizontal, but we're still kind of thinking about that.

But it it wasn't intended to be.

Well, there is a vent, but I no, no, you're saying if they see an open joint on the open joint, yeah, you could put like a weak vent product that would tell them.

I'm not trying to tell you how to comment question.

Oh, this yeah, and the sealant fails.

Yeah, though there's no that there's an opening and they caught it.

Maintenance guy thinks, oh, this is and that it's gonna leak there, and you want it to be open in the case.

Yeah, that's I think last time we were here we talked about the eight-foot caulking gun they used to fill everything.

Yeah, thank you.

Well, this is encouraging that um it's getting done and preserved the right way.

Yep.

Uh again, uh another monumental uh uh project, you know, along with the with the spandrel panels.

And I really would encourage um the company to be looking into those tax credits um for this.

Uh there were uh they should uh the you know, this type of this degree of work should really for the tax credits and um people should be rewarded for the for the good work, the good preservation work that they're doing.

So I mean we've the client has has always been uh uh instrumental in asking us to go above and beyond and want to do this right, and it it may be because what had happened the last time where they thought that was gonna be the ultimate fix, but um they haven't said let's cut any corners or anything.

What is the roof right now?

The material um P PDM, yeah.

I mean, some of those roofs are a little different because some were changed, but a new roof, a new roof is uh warranted pretty soon, which prompted all this.

Yeah, but if it's an EPDM.

Yeah.

That's why we talked about that counterflashing, because they know you know the capstone might be once every 50 years, 100 years, we hope.

You know, but that's five roofs.

Right.

Okay.

So as an extra bonus, because you've been so good, we brought not everybody says it does.

So good so far.

From our last meeting here, we have to hear that nobody says it.

Well, I just did so we have examples of the spandrel panel, the original pieces.

Oh and what we're proposing.

That was a little treat that Kate didn't even know we were going to do this.

I know.

Well, thank you.

It just feels like Christmas already.

Well, it makes sense in the stores, the Christmas decorations, the Halloween derogation are at the same time.

Okay.

I think Kate, you'll be the owner of the colour.

Oh, I get the key for the colour.

Well, it will be close to my alphabet, unfortunately.

We can unwrap the president and pass that off.

Thank you.

So this is the panel.

Right.

It's the repair panel.

And it's an email.

Pretty good.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

It's always an impression of it like a metal panel.

That's awesome.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

And some comes with the very kind of details and basically.

I believe that is the final piece of our agenda.

So motion to adjourn.

I second.

Alright.

I make a motion.

I know we're going to report to close it.

Should we uh should we get the Hillary back here?

So she left her stuff.

I think she's on the phone.

Can we close it?

Hold on, I'll go and get Hillary.

I'm not gonna be stuck here all day.

Oh let me go.

No, I I understand.

Yeah.

But it would be interesting to know because we have to do that.

It's been a long time.

And those things will play with the little thing.

Do you want me to make a motion to adjourn?

I want to second.

I'll second the motion.

Okay.

All in favor?

Any meetings?

Opposition?

No.

Any abstentions?

Motion passed or adjourned.

Thank you.

Okay, so this is the original.

This is what's in the chance.

That's a repair from a piece of thing that was repaired, but they're coming back with the same thing.

A little glossy.

Wait.

They brought us the little black tiles before too right for the interior of the lobby.

The glass to be black.

Oh