Started this meeting is uh for the um neighborhood preservation, uh homeless and housing, and uh we will be discussing the new uh fire codes uh that will be possibly adopted um based on the New York state amendments.

Um with me I have Counselor Hogan, Counselor Nave, myself, Councillor Jones Rouser, and Deputy Commissioner Deputy Commissioner Jake Dishaw um and others so um if you could just fill us in on the new um, you know, what's changing throughout the state, um inclusive of what we just learned last week with the uh sprinkler systems in the row houses or attached housing.

Um I wasn't prepared to speak to that uh at the moment, so the legislation we submitted was to make amendments to our local law that reflect language under New York State Code rules and regulations, part twelve oh three, which is how local municipalities provide for administering and enforcing the New York State uniform code.

I have not had time to go through the new changes of the New York State Code.

We've had zero training on it.

I I'm not able to speak to 99% of it at this time.

It's they just made an announcement a few weeks ago that a rulemaking decision is final, it goes into effect January 1st.

I'm happy to do that later on with other expert individuals from fire prevention and from code enforcement, but I'm I don't have that information in front of me.

I mean I'll try to answer any questions you have.

Okay.

Um I was also out Friday while this was scheduled, so I wasn't as prepared as I normally am for these meetings.

So nope, that's it's fine.

Um but what I what I am prepared to do, what I do have in front of me that I was able to get get together, is to go through what updates we're making to our local law.

Um a lot of it is just language, um new language to be added um for the purpose of again, amending our local code um so that it meets the requirements of the state changes to Title 19.

Um some of it's as little as adding five words that says we can accept electronic construction documents.

Um I go through all that.

I I apologize if if um you weren't sure what that legislation was uh exactly, but changes to the local law don't necessarily reflect like the changes to the state code, for example.

It basically empowers towns, villages, and cities to administer the state law at the local level.

Um the codes change in the code book cycles, um, which have the details to the different provisions on you know, code requirements.

Um so think of the local law as kind of the guidelines on how to administer it, but then like the details in the recipe are really in the code books that change from time to time.

So like we're going from a 2020 version to a 2025 version.

Um I don't even have a copy of it yet.

Uh we have a digital view only copy.

Um, so what do you have for us then?

Um maybe before we get in there, Jake.

So explain to me the procedural issue here.

I mean, the state the state adopts codes are different than what they've had it since 2020, correct?

Well, New York State has what's known as the uniform code and energy code.

Um under section 381 of a of executive law, the Secretary of State, you know, promulgates the rules and regulations for that.

But for those to be enforced at the local level by a town, a village, a city like Syracuse, we have to adopt a model local law to administer those those laws at the local level.

So we've always had a law.

I believe the last time it was updated was 2011-ish.

There's been some stuff that's maybe added in between, but that was like a major rewrite.

So we have to opt into every provision, or we have a choice of not opting in.

How's that work?

No, we we can't we have to meet the minimum standards and minimum codes.

We can become more restrictive.

Um we can't become less restrictive, obviously.

That's correct.

So we have a local law called local law number five, 2011 of the city of Syracuse, a local law providing for the administration and enforcement of the New York State uniform fire prevention and building and building code, and it just has a bunch of different sections as definitions, uh you know, different inspection requirements.

Um and I and I can go through what we're adding.

Um it's okay with you, counselor counselor Jordan Rousser.

I mean yeah, I'll just give a summary.

Um but uh we're adding language about construction documents being able to be received by electronic media.

We've always we we we accept that in practice, but uh we're missing some verbiage on um the plans having electronic marking seal and stamp from a design professional, which we require, we we do check for that, but we need to put those few words into our local law.

Um the next one is just some more details and clarifications for the requirements uh on construction documents that are submitted.

Um we are compliant in many areas with what the state wants, but there are some little things uh that need to be added uh from sorry, I'm just looking at kind of a checklist uh written statement indicating compliance with the energy code.

Like again, these are things that our reviewers and uh and staff look for and and get, but they're not reflected in black and white words in our local law.

So we're just adding it because New York State says we have to add it, it has to be there.

Um so a lot of this is just kind of clarifying, cleaning up, adding, making sure that we're staying up to date with what Title 19 and uh what 1203 part 1203, which is what uh local municipalities have to follow.

It's a section on uh how local uh municipalities enforce and administer the state code.

So and when you keep saying the state code, are you talking about the future state code that's gonna go into effect soon?

Um talking about current state code.

Yeah, if you were to take out the new code that's coming out uh in January, we would still have to add this language.

So they're kind of two different things, although they're very much related because that's the code that we'll be enforcing is the 2025 version, which is just an updated version of what we're already on.

Um so there are some changes in and that will be included, obviously, but a lot of it, a lot of it will remain the same as what we're enforcing today.

But everything that we're adding to our local law is really outside of what's happening in the 2025 code books, it's more administrative on the local level, like checklists of what we need to make sure are included on a construction document when submitted, like for instance what I just said a written statement indicating compliance with the energy code.

We do that, we do look for that, we make sure it's there, but again, we're we're adding this language that's I guess missing is a is a good way to put it.

Um I keep looking at uh law department because they're they're drafting this in conjunction with us.

So uh Danielle's confirming, so making sure I'm saying all this correctly.

But um another area that was missing was uh established street grades and proposed finished grades, and if applicable flood hazard areas, floodways, and design flood elevations.

Again, these are things that we definitely look for, that we check for, that we make sure in compliance, but that verbiage, those words I just read are not in local law right now.

So we need to add that to a section of our local law.

Um I can continue going through, but a lot of the comments and or language additions are very similar to that.

That the next one is uh our local law currently does not include language um uh that documents uh us being able to have remote inspections, meaning virtual, which the state allows for.

So we need to add um three words to include remote inspections.

And what type of um what type of inspections would would fall under the ability to be remote?

Um the state really allows for any.

Um we don't have to, it's just something that we have to add in in case we have they they allow it.

The state allows it.

We don't have to do it if we don't want to.

Um we did some virtual inspections during COVID as permit office remained open, we didn't stop business.

Um we used it a lot then.

Now we have our entire staff is back in the office, and we want everybody physically there.

So in practice, at the moment, really none, but we need to add that language because that's what the state kind of code states that you can have remote inspection, so we need to include that in our local law.

And that's residential and commercial.

Yes.

Okay.

So how do you do that?

The remote.

I mean, what's physically what you do?

You film yeah, it's kind of like FaceTime, but we use our our permit software that has like a secured connection network, so we actually can we do have the ability to call somebody through that software, they answer it, gets recorded, and they can show you around different things.

But like I said, procedurally, our office is not utilizing that.

We we did use it during COVID only.

Um that was it.

Uh Michael Collins, Commissioner for Neighborhood Business Development.

The uh I love the questions that you're starting with because we don't have with the exception of those right in front of us.

Historically, people don't want to get into the weeds of what the the codes are.

So your curiosity about this is uh is fun for those of us that geek out on it or uh all day.

The the simplest way to be able to describe what the legislation does is while the New York state defines the details of the code as the jurisdiction with authority, we must demonstrate to New York State that we have the laws in place in the way that they dictate for us to administer it.

So this isn't the code itself, it's simply how are we guaranteeing to New York State that we are enforcing what they have written as code?

Is that the smoothest way for me to there's probably smoother ways, but that's as simple as I can put it.

So that that's that's the distinction between why you've got excellent questions around hey, what are these other things that are coming down the pipe?

Yeah, and we're not necessarily gonna see those reflected here because this is really just in the administration.

How how do we go about making sure that we can do that work?

Okay, and so with that being said, um, because again, I I know some of the uh new legislation that that will be coming down as far as like the all electric development and um those things.

So we do have the um the battery storage facility as that will possibly come online somewhere.

We who knows where yet, but um so I guess one of my main concerns are are we able to write more into um and maybe this is not for this, but um write more into protections for things of that nature.

Um so we do to to Jake's point uh earlier to Castler Hogan's question, we do have the ability as a uh municipality to become more restrictive than the existing code.

We can add to it.

That would be separate legislation since this has to do with how we administer the code as opposed to what the code itself specifically is.

And again, I'm looking to law, I'm seeing law nodding, so I'm okay.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I I'll just have to admit that majority of my questions was per the new legislation.

And it's definitely something that not only fire prevention, but with Chief Mons that I've discussed, because there are a lot of new uh robust rules in the new code regarding um energy storage uh systems, which the project that you bring up, which isn't um is kind of postponed for the time being, or and you know, until it's heard, but um they're agreeing to meet the 2025 fire code standards for that.

Um, but as commissioner stated, you know, there are ways uh for local government to adopt more restrictive rules above and beyond what the state minimum requirements are.

Um the state does kind of put out a rule making activities uh summary sheet of activities, and it's kind of similar to like what I'm explaining, uh summarizing our local code, they just have like little blurbs of like what's being added.

I can leave this with you or send it to you electronically, but it kind of just goes through because uh structurally or legally, what they what they did was repeal the old versions and then adopt the new versions, and then they list all their all their activity and they kind of list out all the different sections and the new definitions that are added.

Um but again, yeah, I haven't even explored all of these yet as of today.

Okay, no problem.

I know that you I know you were away, so um, I was waiting for you.

Yeah, uh and we can definitely as we get closer to the new year, um, or towards the end of this calendar year is is as we have more time to go through that.

The state is making all certified New York State code officials go through what they call advanced in service training.

All of that is only covering the new code, meaning we're getting specific training only on the new new code updates, but we have the whole calendar year of 2026 to get that done.

Um people like myself will get that training at a conference that we attend in calendar year 2026, which I usually go to our local one through uh our central uh New York State building officials uh chapter.

That's in April for three days down at the hotel next to the mall, for example, and we'll get 12 hours of training only on the new code.

So it will be some time unless uh I can read through it all and understand it all before I can really understand everything, the scope of the magnitude of everything that's changed.

But I mean, obviously I have a good sense of some of it.

We've been aware of you know, a new code coming for some time now.

They've been talking about it for the last year, but you know, everything that's in there and and how it should be enforced and what the interpretation is.

I don't I don't have all that in front of me right now.

How much uh involvement local officials across the state getting into writing this new code?

Well, I think a lot of people reach out to you, Jake.

Yeah, I think yeah, and we have uh uh an opportunity to comment.

Um, you know, one thing I know that was that's continues to be real big um with building officials or or building um just builders, I mean, uh, is that there was a big push to put sprinklers in residential.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

And you know, so there's things like that that um obviously uh you know the state um level itself is pushing for you know carbon-free, um, you know, less gas emission, uh, more you know, energy uh efficient home.

So um certainly statewide there there was common period where anybody could really submit um things.

Um yes.

Well, Jake, I wanted the AS, how can we make the public more aware?

Um, you know, like recently I was going back and forth with a constituent about a garage, and they didn't want to go through codes, they didn't want to go through an architectural plan, they just want to do it their way.

I believe we have to educate the public as I'm learning about putting up apartments, about adding structures that you need uh permits that you do need fire inspections and this.

So I believe that some people are cutting the corners, and I think some of the people probably don't leave me live in our city.

And I wanted you to address that.

How can we educate what we're trying to do?

Well, um generally speaking, anybody that's dealing with commercial construction activity, we want them and they need to be working with a design professional.

Where we run into problems is where people choose not to follow that route.

Um that's a different bucket than residential homeowners that are trying to make improvements on their house, right?

Like we will kind of guide homeowners through weekend projects like rebuilding some steps, things like that.

But when you said garage, I'm just assuming you meant like auto repair.

No, this is personal lives on the north side, and I had a friend that was wanted and sent me sketches of this apartment and she got upset.

Why call it codes?

I need a professional architecture.

I said, Well, and I looked in that, you know, I I did research and I go, yes, you do need it.

You can't just like anyone do a sketch, and you know, it has to be inspected.

You could deal with electrical, you could have a fire.

Sure.

You want to know the safety of the structure.

So there's a lot of things that go into this.

And I think the public probably are not aware of.

And I think like when we do the yearly guide, I think we have to send this out to all citizens to know like what the law is, because a lot of people don't know.

Sure.

No, I understand that.

And it is something that we we we deal with weekly, um, educating the public as they come into our office.

We have our healthy housing event annually where we have our permits team there.

Um, obviously, we're not capturing everybody in the region andor city attending that event, but no, um, but it's also a language barrier.

And the outside, there's a language barrier.

There's that.

Um, these rules have also been in effect for I don't know.

You've need you've needed permits at the city for much longer than I've been alive.

Yeah, so uh the healthy housing event that deputy commissioner mentioned.

Uh, we've been doing that for about 10 years, give or take.

Yeah.

Uh and that that uh we do a lot of press with that uh guided tour so that uh we can take people through a residential home and and look at uh uh you know what code infractions are existing right there, but a lot of still that a lot a lot of that conversation has to do about what it would take to be able to uh repair.

Where do you need a permit?

Where do you not, where do you need your paint certification, where do you not?

So uh so we do that.

Uh we would love to have uh a larger marketing budget, but at the moment, really the the focus is really got to be on the personnel to move along the permits.

Our uh our inspectors are in the field every day, and so they do a lot of education, they're not looking to come down on people uh, but they do a lot of education just as they're walking across uh unpermitted projects, and then um our staff at the at the counter do uh we just at the moment we don't have the resources to be able to do a full marketing campaign towards it.

That said, um you know, all the different events that we can and we so uh fire just last last weekend had their big open house.

Code enforcement had a table there.

So we're you know, we're we're taking advantage of the opportunities that present themselves and would love to grow to the point where we can you know be super proactive about it.

But that's gonna be a few years ago.

You know, as a counselor now, a lot of people try to bypass or they just they say, well, we don't know.

So maybe the media can cost, maybe social media.

I and we uh are aware of the fact that you know there's unpermitted construction work happening every day, as there is across the nation.

Um building an entire garage is uh an example that is at the sort of extreme end of it.

We we don't typically what we see is stuff that's indoors or you know, somebody doing a roof over the weekend, that kind of thing.

Um one other thing I wanted to bring up.

I mentioned this uh summary of rulemaking activity, but the state does have contacts who can um issue you statements and analysis uh uh on their rule on the final rulemaking, but it also has sections in here on assessments of public comment received.

Um just something to mention that I again I can leave with you.

Um, but again, these are that that's in regards to the actual text changes going from the 2020 state code to the 2025 version that will come into effect January 1.

Okay, so based on what what you're presenting today, what is what it like the least the the minor change and the then what's the major change?

Yeah, so I I went through um construction documents received by electronic media, um adding some language on requirements for construction documents again, like what needs to be listed in there, like the statement on the energy code compliance.

I mentioned the remote inspections already.

Um we are also have to add some language around specific instances in which a final certificate of occupancy can be issued.

Um one part that we found was missing um again, not in our enforcement or actual administration, but in the law was that we didn't list out carbon monoxide detection.

That wasn't added when Amanda's law was adopted.

Uh so we need to add that um in to our local law section on certificate of occupancy, so it's states carbon monoxide.

Again, in practice, that's definitely a requirement.

We're not missing that, it's just the language isn't there.

Umperating permits, uh, we have to add some uh language on operating permits.

A lot of this, a lot of our operating permits are really all of them are issued by our fire prevention office.

So these are these are and and a lot of these things are things we don't even have here, like fruit and crop uh ripening facility, fumigation and insecticidal fogging facility.

Um but again, these are things that we have to add.

Um which is fine because you never know down there.

Sugar house, like um so I I think we're generally compliant with most of this stuff.

It's just cleaning up and clarifying language to cover everything that's in New York code rule and regulation and basically copying that into our local law.

Now, going back to what you said with the um like when when someone submits certain renderings um that it has like the stamps or whatever, like is that local uh or could that's not state?

No, it's both.

So there are rules around engineers and architects um and how they have to stamp and seal drawings and when they have to.

Um, okay, yeah.

So I guess my question is am I able to submit my own drawing?

Do I have to use an architect for something?

It depends on what you're doing.

Um so there's threshold threshold on dollar amount of project.

Uh if there's structural changes um regarding building that requires design professional, um, so like if you were to come in for a set of stairs and a porch, like you you could submit a drawing as long as it complies, and if it wasn't like the biggest deck in the world that was over 20,000, like we could issue a permit.

But if it was some more elaborate like addition or something that's like uh major structural work changes, like a lot of people want to do open open floor concept in a home, for example.

And a lot of people don't know the difference between load bearing and a not load bearing wall, and they just want to knock the wall out.

Yeah, and it's like, well, you're carrying the load right down the center of this house here, like you can't just open this wall up without putting a new beam up.

So like it's things like that.

We're like, you need a design professional to do that.

Like, we're not just gonna let you blow out a load-bearing wall in your house because you want to open up your living room and your dining room.

Um does that answer the question?

Yeah.

Um, we again we try to work with our residential homeowners to allow them to do their weekend warrior projects and things that they need to do to make improvements on their homes, commercial buildings, buildings open to the public.

Like, we want qualified professionals, not only designing that stuff, but doing the work.

Um generally that's how you know how we try to work it.

But there are certain requirements based on dollar amount and the type of work on what triggers design uh professional or not.

Okay.

There are those who claim to be contractors but are not licensed.

You come across that well, so the the city and the state don't we don't have a general license for a contractor.

We license some might not we had an instant where I mean, so we we license HVAC electrical.

Um we do require insurance from contractors um when they're part of a permit.

So they have to show workers' comp disability um liability.

Um they have to submit that that we have to have their up-to-date insurance forms on file.

Um there, but again, that's not really a license, but I think that kind of shows that they're legitimate if you're carrying you know insurances for that.

Some don't.

And it's hard to say, we had an incident in my district where German came up to me, he's a Vietnamese, didn't understand why he was getting law sued by a law firm.

It turned out the person he hired, uh one of his employees following got hurt.

He had no insurance.

So now he comes to me for help.

We you know, and I said, I think you gotta defend yourself, attorney, and prove that this person was not a lawyer.

I mean, was not a licensed contractor.

And so when this person got hurt, he says, Well, I don't have insurance, just go suit a guy.

Right.

You know, so the these things do happen.

Oh, I know we can't.

Yeah, it's uh the fly by night kind of contractors that come in and want to do your roof or your driveway and cash only, right?

Yeah, they're they're not they're not pulling permits, they're not the Vietnamese.

Well, yeah.

Okay.

Any other questions?

No, I I have if we could have a conversation after the meeting, Jake.

I appreciate it.

A couple issues.

Yeah.

Um, the only other thing we're adding, just a final summary on what we're adding locally.

Uh we're adding a small some language around uh record keeping for all condition assessment uh reports being received.

We're adding some stuff on climatic and geographic design criteria um and parking garage assessments, and that's that covers it.

Go into those first two just a little bit.

The um the uh what was the first one?

Uh record keeping record keeping.

Okay, because I've had individuals who've complained to me about having to um send in the same document on multiple occasions that they're you know, were said that someone would told them like after I don't know, 15 days or something, if they didn't have their full full uh I'll say packet um complete that they don't hold on to stuff that so then they had to start over uh all over again submitting stuff offline if you can give me the specifics, but generally speaking, everything we keep is in a digital record keeping system.

So um we will make people reapply um if things are expired.

Um but I'll you know we've pulled applications and just kind of like renewed the application um with the same documents that we've already had.

We we've done that.

Um so yeah, if you want to get me the specifics on that, I can look into it.

But it's been some months.

They were done with it by then, but they were complaining.

Yeah, I mean, we take in everything digitally now, so it's it's there.

Um the time of coming in with papers really over with.

Okay, and what was the second one?

Um garage, like parking garage assessments.

No, before that one.

Uh geographic.

Climate design criteria.

Uh that is we um the state uh mandates that we um make available the climate and geographic design criteria in the uniform code.

So this includes uh publishing and showing like what the ground snow load is, the wind design load, uh how deep your footers have to be, meaning like where your frost line is based on region in the state, um, because it differs if you're downstate.

Um again, we have this stuff, it's just not in our local law.

Okay.

Um no more questions?

No, no more information.

That's it.

Okay.

I mean, I'm I'm just trying to make sure I cover what we submitted legislation for.

I apologize.

I I wasn't thinking like we were gonna talk about it's probably it's probably my fault because we can do that with in the future, but I would give it some time so we can get more.

Yeah, knowing that this other law was coming down, it just kind of got meshed together for me anyway, and making sure to make sure that we're ahead of the water.

What I would recommend is maybe if you can wait until after like quarter one of 2026, we'll have a lot better understanding of everything that's in the new code.

Uh I'm happy to do it before then too.

I'm just we're gonna go through all of our classes by then.

Like I go in April.

Um, I don't know when Ryan's doing his, but you know, between now and then I'm gonna try to learn everything I can.

One of the main concerns um for me is the um what is this battery storage facility because they're currently in the process of trying to get their approvals.

Um, and so they're doing community dialogue right now, depending on how that goes.

Um I guess the the major concern is the risk of fires.

Um and so for well, I know me and me and um Chief Mons have been talking, and I guess we wanted we're wanted to look at the possible addition to the like a suppression system for for that.

Um so we didn't know what that fit into this at all, as far as like the added stuff.

And this is something that like because they're already in public comment, I need to be able to speak to that if that was something that could happen.

Sure.

Um what I can maybe do is provide you the link to the 2025 fire code.

Oh, I have it, I know.

Yeah, so the the the app would be in addition, right?

Um you know, I suppose it could you could possibly add a condition that they do something.

Um but the only other the only other way we can enforce something that's not in like the fire code is to adopt a more restrictive local standard, which the state has to be part of that approval process for.

They have to sign off on us having a more restrictive local law.

So if we were to say based on this, we want to add this, then it has to go back to them before we have the approval for that.

Um to mandate it, yes.

If you can get them to agree to a condition as part of a special use permit, I don't I maybe you could talk to Joe Barry about that.

Sorry, Danielle.

I'm kind of that's fine.

Uh Danielle Smith on uh assistant corporation counsel.

Um yeah, I think Joe Barry would be the person that you'd want to speak to on those kinds of issues.

Okay.

But I will say, I mean, the the there were a number of additions to fire safety around battery storage facilities because of actual real events.

So the state doesn't strictly prohibit them, they just have a lot of rules around the safety requirements with them.

So um, but we can take a look at that and continue to evaluate that things, but they're their building permits if we get to that point.

Uh they're electing to use that, even if they come in before the new year, they're electing to use that as the standard.

So we would we and the fire department would review their plans based on the minimum requirements in the 2025 fire code.

Yeah.

Um above and beyond that, if it's a special use permit, uh defer to Joe Barry on if conditions can be added.

Uh recyclable batteries, lithium in the blue bins.

They were one time.

I don't think so.

No.

We're not doing it anyway.

No, and Fordoc's not here.

I see her saying no.

I would say no, because I know wagments will take them, and I think some places help batteries go, but if we have to look for a facility, assuming we have available space in my district, our dustrial area.

Yeah, okay.

All right, so I'm not I'm gonna go ahead and close.

All right, so we'll we'll adjourn this meeting if I could have a motion.

Motion second, all right.

Thank you guys.

Thank you, um, Jake and MBD department, um law department.

Appreciate it, and we look forward to the next meeting on the full New York State legislation.

So all right.

Yeah.