This meeting of the Syracuse Planning Commission.

We will begin our public hearing schedule in just a moment after we've taken care of our minutes from the previous meeting.

And those minutes have been distributed in advance to the commission members.

Is there a motion for action on those minutes of our last meeting?

Move approval on the minutes of September 8th, 2025.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Thank you.

Discussion on the motion before us.

If not, all in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

The minutes of the September eighth meeting are approved.

We will begin the public hearing schedule of our meeting next, just by way of introduction for anyone unfamiliar with our process.

As each application is announced, we ask that the applicant or the representative come to the podium in the center of the room, provide their name and address for the record, and then a summary of the application involved.

Following any questions from the commission members, we will then open up the opportunity for members of the public to speak in favor of the application, and then similarly an opportunity for those who wish to speak in opposition to the application.

We want to get through it all so no projects are held up and ask if you could confine your comments either way to about three minutes.

That would be really helpful.

We do.gov.

Thank you.

May I uh approach and share a document.

Certainly.

I'm an attorney at Bonshinick and King, and I represent the applicant, Albany's.

The property at issue has two addresses, 800 South Wilbur and 802 South Wilbur.

As was mentioned before, the project concerns the former Syracuse Developmental Center, which closed in 1998.

That property has been vacant for some time and was rezoned PDD by the city recently in connection with this project.

What we're here to discuss is the project plan review approval, which was granted this past May 5.

That approval included as part of phase one three different components to the project.

First, 27 townhomes.

Secondly, two multi-dwelling buildings, apartment buildings that add up to 261 units.

And then finally, associated uh commercial park space and parking.

The request we're making here today is for amendments to that previous approval, which occurred on May 5th, in order to clarify certain provisions of the approval, which would be necessary for the project to go forward.

So what I've handed to you is my letter.

It's a summary.

I want you to have the same thing in front of you that I have in front of me.

It's a summary of the issues, and I won't read it at you, but I'll I'm gonna summarize the three issues, and um please interrupt me if you have any questions.

First, the crossing of approvals.

So this project can essentially be summarized.

You've got the townhome portion of it, the 27 townhomes, and secondly, the 261 apartments and two buildings.

These uh are all part of one approval, but they're really two separate construction schedules, two separate projects, there'll be two different um entities will finance each part of that, and there'll be different equity um members owning it.

So a lot of capital in terms of uh both private money loans and then um uh public money too that go that is going into those into those projects.

So um, in order we're coming very close to the beginning point for the construction of the apartment buildings, and we have to close on the financing imminently, and that'll be a different lender and equity member than for the townhome portion.

So it's come up that uh some of the conditions, it's not clear from the wording that they may apply like a default um on one portion of the project would render um the other portion uh unfinanciable, right?

They can't lend money if there's something they don't have control over that could cause a default or a removal of the project sign approval.

So we have proposed behind my letter.

I have a proposed red line of the resolution that clarifies that yes, all the conditions apply to every to all parts of the project, but any default on one would only affect that part, not the other, so that the uh the lenders can have that have that clarification.

The second issue is the um construction.

I'm gonna skip to the construction deadlines.

The initial approval had a 12-month deadline.

As you know, this is a very large property, it's probably the largest parcel in the city, and it's a large project.

Uh the project can't be completed in that time frame in a 12-month time frame.

So we've had the opportunity since the approval in May to talk to many contractors.

Um, we have that lined up and we know it'll take approximately 36 months from the start of construction.

Construction is slated to begin in January.

So what we're asking for is a 42-month deadline to finish construction from the date of the approval back in May.

That's that's how we get to that number 42, um, because we'll need 36 months to construct it if we begin in January.

And then the final issue where if you look in the red line, we're requesting a modification is the permanent affordability um of the uh the workforce housing, the affordable housing I should say.

That the way that it's worded, it's infinite.

It you know, it never ends.

I don't think that was uh ever the intention, and it's my understanding that the common council is attempting to address that too.

Uh in our red line, we inserted language that it would match the um regulatory uh agreements.

So specifically the regulatory agreement, the the idea is it would terminate the same time as the HFA agreement would terminate.

In this case, it's 30 years.

So that's what's included in our red line.

After consulting with your counsel, it's my understanding that the common council had this on their agenda previously and it's coming up again next week.

If it's the preference of the board to have the common council resolve that issue, that's fine as long as if so long as if that's delayed, we'd kind of like to reserve the right to come back to you if for whatever reason that doesn't happen.

But um we have no objection to that solution, if that's the preference of the board.

Then I'll stop there.

Oh, the last thing is there was uh the unit count.

There's I think it's just typographical error on the unit count, it's 261.

I found the origin of the typographical error in the the packet if you care.

But I uh I think it's 261.

And if you look at the staff memo, it's clearly 261 and all the architectural drawings is 261.

So if I could just clarify, Brody, uh if we're willing to wait for the common council to act on the uh resolution that is before them right now, then we only need to deal with two issues tonight.

Is that correct?

They that's right.

Obviously, the applicant would love for you to deal with all three, but again, I understand from speaking to your council there may be a preference to let the common council deal with that other issue, and we again we don't object to that as long as uh we could come back in November 10th if that doesn't happen.

We don't have an objection.

Um as long as it's in accordance with the code uh where we're covered in both scenarios and we also fully anticipate um that change, but if not, then it'll be probably have the language so that it syncs up with the council's action.

Right.

Yeah.

Um just for the board's information, uh the code does allow the board um to authorize via condition of approval a different expiration on project approvals, um, other than the standard 12-month um large project like this.

Certainly makes sense to consider what's being asked.

Um other than the standard 12 months followed by uh potential administrative 12 month extension, followed by coming back before this body, which is all standard procedure.

But uh section 5.5 C under administration and procedures under post-decision actions.

Um totally within your purview to grant um any expiration of approval as you wish.

So are there thank you?

That's a nice succinct overview of those various issues.

Any immediate questions from the commission members for Mrs.

Smith regarding that set of issues pertaining to our resolution?

No, thank you.

And so if we could just clarify what Jake just said though.

Um my understanding of that is that we have final decision on this particular action that doesn't need to go to the common council.

Yeah, it doesn't go to council.

No, I so that this is your approval.

Uh uh, this is your project site approval, which you can amend.

And which happens from time to time.

Uh, there's nothing wrong with amending.

Oftentimes it has to do with changes in construction, all that.

Here it's just wording.

We're not actually.

I think I think that's an important question.

Um, we're not actually changing the substantive design size, placement of anything.

It's just the wording of we're seeking a clarification of the wording of a couple of the conditions and the timeline of the uh that's right extension of the timeline.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So if there are no further questions for the applicant, does anyone wish to offer a motion to address these issues?

Yeah.

Okay.

So I think what the commission is going to do is um reopen for a vote, and in that case, um invite the public to speak.

I'm sorry, what's that?

Uh they're going to reopen for the vote and invite the public to speak if they wish.

Okay.

Thank you.

Motion then to reopen.

So first, yeah, yeah.

I'll make a motion to reopen the vote taken on the resolution on May 5th.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion on that motion.

If not, all in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

So now to move to consideration of the uh several issues that were just outlined by Mr.

Smith.

Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of uh the proposed changes to the resolution that the commission adopted in May?

Anyone wishing to speak in favor of those changes, please come forward to the podium, provide your name and address for the record, and then your comments.

I see no one rising to speak, so I will ask if there are anyone wishing to speak in opposition to the proposed changes to that resolution.

If so, please come forward, provide your name and address for the record, and then offer your comments.

Again, I don't see anyone rising to speak on this matter.

We will close public comment on this and consider a resolution to address the issues that were just outlined a few moments ago.

You're prepared to I'm prepared to make a motion.

Yes, I am.

Uh having reopened the resolution for the vote.

I believe that I'd like to make a motion to accept the red line changes submitted by the applicant as submitted by the applicant and incorporate them into the new resolution.

Is there a second?

Second.

Discussion on this motion now before us.

If there's no discussion from the commission members, then all in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

The revised resolution carries.

And thank you very much.

Our next uh moving into our new business items.

First up is a special use permit.

SP-24-27, located at 2564-70 Erie Boulevard East, owned by ETK uh Realty.

Uh this is in the MX3 zone district.

The applicant is requesting to establish a uh automobile repair light uh duty land use type.

Good evening, and thank you for allowing us to speak here again tonight.

Uh my name is Ray Bartolai, and I'm a representative of Biggie Tyron Automotive Service Centers and ETK Junior Realty.

We're located at uh 925 South State Street in Clark Summit PA.

And we're here tonight in reference to uh the automotive service center at 2564 Erie Boulevard East in Syracuse.

We're asking for a special use permit to allow us to open up a uh light automotive repair shop on that uh lot.

It was formally uh building of the AMCO transmissions.

At that previous time it was automotive uh heavy, so we are reducing it to automotive repair light.

That's the summary, correct?

Okay, thank you.

Questions for the applicant from the commission members?

I'm good.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Thanks.

Okay.

Are there any individuals who would like to speak in favor of this application?

If so, please come forward.

No, we kind of knew you were in favor.

You didn't see us vote, did you?

It was a dead giveaway.

Anyone in favor, please come forward.

Uh provide your name, address, and comments.

There are no speakers in that category.

Anyone wishing to speak in opposition to the application, please come forward, provide your name, address, and comments.

Uh no one seems rising to speak on this application, so we'll close the public comment for this application, and we'll turn our attention to our seeker review for SP 2427.

Has everyone had an opportunity to review the EAF part one prepared by the applicant and contained in your packet?

Yes.

Okay.

Has everyone reviewed the EAF part two also contained in your packet?

Yes.

Yes.

Does anyone believe that the proposed action will result in a moderate to large impact under CECRA?

No.

Having determined that having determined that there are no moderate to large impacts, I recommend that the board make a negative declaration and prepare the part three EAF accordingly.

Thank you.

Is there a seeker motion to that effect?

Make a motion to issue a negative seeker declaration.

Second.

Discussion on the seeker motion before us.

If there's no discussion, all in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

Seeker motion is approved.

We may now turn our attention to the special use permit for a recommendation that will go on to the council.

Is there a motion to that effect?

I make a motion to approve uh SB-24-27 as it presented in the application.

Beyond the general conditions, there are seven uh special conditions attached to this application that are stated on pages 31, 30 and 31 of the combined uh agenda packet for uh today's material.

The seven conditions are one, the applicant will need to show a sheet flow for the new pitched roof as directed but to be controlled on the uh side to practical exterior to practical extent possible.

Two, the asphalt parking area between the facade and the right of way is to be restored to uh topsoil and grass.

Three, fixed vertical objects are required where the parking area meets the right-of-way.

Uh four, the operation shall not include the outside storage of vehicle bulks or parts.

Five, the operation shall not include the removal of engines or transmissions or require any body uh framework.

Six, the operation shall not include any dismantling or regulated as regulated by the uh New York State and seven ADA compliant lead uh lead walk is required to and from the public right-of-way sidewalk.

Thank you.

Is there a second second?

Um this is a special use permit, so it should be a recommendation to the comments.

Accept the friendly amendment.

Thank you.

So discussion on this motion that will be transmitted in the form of a recommendation to the common council for final disposition.

Discussion on this item.

If not, all in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

So the motion is approved.

It proceeds to the common council, and the county council will make the final determination on the special use permit.

So thank you.

Uh next up we continue with the Syracuse Development Center SDC project.

Uh this includes a resubdivision modification and also a street dedication SD-2025-01 at 800 and 802 South Wilbur Ev, owned by the City of Syracuse Applicant uh Albany's group.

This is in the PDD zone district.

Uh again, my name is Brody Smith.

I'm an attorney at Bond, and I represent Albany's.

Um I won't repeat all the facts unless there's a desire for me to do so in terms of the background of the project.

Um suffice to say the resubdivision involves uh the various aspects of the property, a total of 32 new lots would be made out of what's now two lots to accommodate the townhomes and the apartment buildings, and then also two new public streets.

Um in the summary of changes in your staff packet, you see that the only change from previous meetings is that High Point Street would be Helen D.

Hudson Boulevard.

Um the all these street names, including Jensen, Hussack, Segwin, um, have all been approved by the county 911 street naming committee.

Thank you.

Questions for the applicant on these two items?

Either the resubdivision or the street dedication.

No questions, thank you.

Thank you.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in favor of either of these applications?

If so, please come to the podium, provide your name and address for the record, and then your comments, please.

Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to either application?

If so, please come to the podium providing your name and address for the record, and then offer your comments.

And we will therefore close public comment regarding uh these two.

We also have completed our seeker review previously.

That is not part of this evening's um actions by this body.

And so taking up the resubdivision application.

Is there a motion for action on R 2505 M1?

Make a motion to uh approve R-25-0M with one special condition.

But now having stated that uh should make a clarifying comment.

Normally re-subdivisions are simply approved by uh the uh the planning commission.

However, in this case, there actually is a note that the resubdivision must include the two names for the streets that are going to be approved in the street dedication uh application, which we're going to consider next, which does require common council approval.

Therefore, the refiling of the resub with the county clerk clock does not start until after the common council approval of the two uh street name dedications.

Good clarification, thank you.

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion on this motion now before is for the resubdivision, R2505 M1.

If not, all in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

R 2505 M1 is approved.

That takes us now to the street dedication SD 202501.

Is there a motion for action on this?

Make a motion to uh approve SD-2025-01, no special conditions, uh, and recommend approval by the common council.

Thank you.

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion on this motion for the street dedication.

If not, all in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye aye.

Those of those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

Street dedication resolution go recommendation goes to the common council.

Thank you.

Onward to our next application.

Uh next are two companion pieces, a special use permit and a resubdivision for a greenhouse manufacturing plant project located at 2956, 2960, and 2964, East Genesee Street owner currently Greater Syracuse Property Development Corporation.

Uh, this is in the MX2 zone district.

If the applicant is here, yes, please come forward and provide your name and address for the record and then a summary of what's involved with your application.

Yeah, my name is Ashok Bose, and I'm the applicant in the C in a founder and the CEO of Sustainable Energy and Agriculture Technology, which is doing business as ACAT.

My address is 327 Dickerson Drive North Camelas, New York.

First of all, I'd like to thank you, and I'm deeply honored to have the opportunity to present my application for smart greenhouse project in Syracuse.

And before I go there, I wanted to share, in addition to all the documentation that has been submitted already, that um why we are doing this thing in Syracuse and at this particular location.

So I'll very briefly um I I 10 years ago I did not even think that I'll do this probably because I'm an electronic engineer in.

But because of my personal experience when I was in China, my son was born, and she he had a severe problem of asthma and so forth, and he got pneumonia due to the pollution.

And that's the reason that I quit my job in IBM and brought him back to Arizona, where I'm originally from.

To make the story short, fast forward, the good thing is that my son, who is now 12 14 years old, and he's now attending high school in West Gen, right?

His health has recovered completely, and I'm deeply um blessed to to share this information.

So what I did at the time when I came back to Arizona, I created a small greenhouse on my land in Arizona.

And I went at first I sub I harvested it one tomato.

I gave this tomato to my son, who was four years old, and he was going to almost, you know, me the the child was almost I was going to lose, now he is going to have a bite on the my own tomato, right?

So I was very happy, fast forward, I put this picture in my Facebook, and I found that hundreds of my friends and their friends, they're calling me and they said they they wanted to do this thing, right?

Because I think the project sharing of happiness, right?

So I decided that I will give up my job in IBM and on what we and then I'll devote my time to create greenhouse.

And fast forward, I found a lot of challenges, and being in a blessed engineer, I had some patents and so forth.

So I made this design.

And why Syracuse?

Because even the Arizona is a good place, but actually, if you look at the cost of vegetables in greenhouse in Northeast here, is much higher, especially during the winter time because of the cost of transportation.

Again, I'm not going to spend more time on this because of the limit.

But the good thing is that if we have a simple design like that, and if we have a patented temperature control, then we could produce greenhouse vegetables almost 12 months a year instead of just only a few months in the summer and the fall.

And that way we could save significant amount of pollution that is created by transporting the food from East Coast from sorry, from the West Coast or from Florida to here, and that will help win-win situation.

The people here will get fresh vegetables as well as there'll be less carbon dioxide in there.

And I'm very blessed that NICERDA, New York State Energy, they have been very fortunate to help us a little bit.

So anyway, so first forward, this project, I have been again thankful to the city of Syracuse Planning Department, and we have been working together, and we got this parcel, and we are going to build a 50 by 50 uh feet square foot structure, the site plan, and it's a two-story building.

And what we are trying to do is the two things.

One thing is that we are going to build these things in here by using some automated robot technology that I think not, I think we are planning for using.

And also we wanted to do that so that community, which is instead of doing it in a very far-fetched in a remote place, we wanted to bring it so that the people, the people as well as the children, when they will get out of the school every day, they will be able to see how a smart greenhouse is made if they wish to, right?

And that will be probably a significant change in the attitude towards manufacturing and also sustainable lifestyle.

Okay.

And I can go on, but uh the reason that I'm here to do that, but if you uh maybe could tell us what the actions are that you need, it seems as though you need to combine several lots, several parcels into one in order to build the facility that you're looking for, and that's secondly, it seems as though you need a special use um permit uh for the facility.

Uh, can you talk about any highlights uh on those two items that you'd like us to be uh especially knowledgeable about?

Yes, sir.

So, first of all, that um after searching almost a more than a year in whole in North in upstate New York, I found this um land which were vacant at this time, and we wanted to use the three lots, they're all contiguous, and we'll be able to build a 50 by 50 two-story building.

And the good thing is that all the production of the construction will be insulated so that there will be no noise, or at least the reduction of the noise to the outside.

In addition to that, we are also we have addressed the concern about the neighborhood for the loading and unloading and the noise.

So our operation will be um restricted so that when the kids are coming out of the school or or going to the school, that time there will be no loading safety.

And also, as far as the the air control, air quality control, okay.

I am deeply involved myself.

I have done some project in the past about the so we we know that it is very important.

As I mentioned, that even my the whole genesis of this whole project is that keeping air in Syracuse and whole you know clean, right?

So we'll do everything that is possible, and I have presented a plan, how to control the um the air quality so that the no will be dust.

And based on what we have done already, a mechanic uh not a mechanical, a manual process in the neighborhood where we built one.

I I I can assure you that the noise level was minimum, so there is no complaint from the any neighbors when we are building this particular structure in Camelas, right?

And also during the operation time right now, it is absolutely silent because there is no noise.

So I believe that we have been able to address all the concerns of the neighborhood in the proposal in the work plan that we have submitted in last week.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So let's pause there and see if there are any questions on this project from the commission members and how this will unfold.

Any questions for the applicant?

No, all said, thank you.

Yeah, I guess so I can start.

I have three questions.

Uh, first of all, I have a hard time telling exactly where the retaining wall is on you know the uh the side towards Meadowbrook.

Is that before the the foliage and the trees?

Where exactly is the retaining wall going to be located?

How is that I'm sorry, sir?

Retaining wall.

You had the plans call for a retaining wall uh on the south side.

Uh I I can't tell from the diagrams exactly where that retaining wall is.

So I was just wondering if you could clarify that.

And is that gonna involve removing any foliage, any trees, et cetera, or is the retaining wall gonna be occur before any of the trees that screen that from the metal brook uh side of the property?

Yes.

So to the best of my knowledge, even though I'm not an architect, I'm a mechanical engineer, but what what we have done, the land has a slant.

Right.

And what happened is that in order to use the parking lot so that we we needed some more space, and then we have to make sure that there is a wall there, retained wall, so that we can use the land and also we can control the um the access to the building in a safe way.

If that is my understanding, and again, I'll be more than happy to clarify um if there is more needed.

Okay.

Um I I guess that's that's sufficient uh for for for now.

So I was just curious.

So the the unit that's being constructed, the greenhouse is 10 by 10 by 15 height, and you're actually shipping that already assembled on the back of a truck.

Is that is that correct?

Yes.

So I understand is correct about that.

Yes.

So our our the again, uh first of all, thank you so much, sir, for your question.

This gives me uh a lot of interesting assurance that if there is an interest in this, right?

That is um so the one of the major challenge of this kind of technology that why it is not popular, because the it takes time when we manufacture it here by uh on site, on-site manufacturing, first of all, the lack of time, and resources and everything.

So, in order to, in order to commercialize that, and that is exactly where I think I've been very blessed to have this NICERD as assistance with this, is that we need to make it manufacture or manufacture, right?

So if you want to manufacture it, then our vision is like that, just like when you buy a refrigerator, right?

You do not buy compressor and all the parts, you just go to Home Depot or wherever you're buying, and they will come and they'll deliver it, right?

So our vision is in the future, the smart greenhouse will be installed or available, like anybody who has got a backyard or the frontier, it will be installed.

So not only the people who are using refrigerator to preserve the food, the the comp in the community will have the ability to grow the food.

Not everything, but whatever.

So that is the reason that we wanted to, you are you're right that our vision is that we'll finish the product and we'll ship it so that minimum time will be required to install it on the consumer side.

Right.

So all it's required for installation is a concrete pad on the end of the user.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So uh and again, in the Camelas, this is the not the first one.

I we did some few model in Arizona, as I mentioned, that's the project started.

Now, because of the weather in New York is completely different, so we had to redesign the whole foundation and so forth.

And our plan is exactly that we'll we but we're not going to build the concrete foundation in that plan.

That is not our goal.

Right.

That will be somewhere else.

Right.

Okay.

Again, so thank you so much for your interest.

So I'm just wondering, uh assuming that the resubdivision is approved by us and the special use permit is approved by the common council in a timely manner.

What's your construction schedule?

Yeah.

Okay.

So as we developed the plan itself, right?

As you know, or initially I was thinking that it'll be much simpler, right?

Because of what we did in the past, you know, in a remote desert area.

Now, because of the we are now doing it in the middle of the city, so there's a lot.

I fully understand there's a lot of concern and so forth.

So that to answer your question, our target is actually as soon as we get a building farm meet, okay.

We like to do it within 12 months, which is okay.

Okay.

That is our target.

Thank you.

Questions.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in favor of this application?

Please come forward.

Find your name, address, and comments.

Thank you.

I'm Caitlin Wright speaking on behalf of the Greater Syracuse Land Bank or the Greater Syracuse Property Development Corporation 1941 South Salina Street.

We are currently the owners of these properties and under contract to sell them to Mr.

Bose.

Our commitment to sell these properties is contingent upon him getting all of the necessary zoning approvals, which is uh why we're excited to see this approved tonight.

Um and this is just emblematic of exactly what we wanted to accomplish with the land bank.

You know, these parcels have been vacant for decades.

Um we've had them for several years on the market.

Um we're excited to see them get back on the tax rolls and be put back into productive use.

Um we did have some concern when he initially came to us about the aesthetics of it.

We know that East Genesee Street is a heavily traveled gateway into the city, and we want to make a good impression on people that are visiting Syracuse.

Um, but I will say that this is a great example of why rezone uh has been a success because uh the design guidelines and the design requirements in rezone have really evolved his building design to a point where I think it's going to aesthetically fit into the neighborhood.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other individuals who may wish to speak in favor of this application, please come forward.

Anyone wishing to speak in opposition to the application, please come to the podium, provide your name, address, and comments.

Good evening.

My name is Louise Magnarelli.

I am a resident uh of the neighborhood.

That's why I received notification of this application.

My address is 204 Hurlbert Road.

I have a lot of questions about this, but my overriding concern is that you're putting or allowing a manufacturing general permit in an area that is primarily residential.

This site abuts apartments, numerous apartments that are on Meadow Brook Drive.

Behind the apartments, there is uh, I don't know if you want to call it forests or trees or whatever, but it separates the residential area from the commercial properties.

Uh there is a gas station, there's a Dollar General uh on either side of these parcels, but it separates that the retaining wall will almost have to take down a lot of the trees that are there, and you're replacing it with a stone wall or whatever it's manufactured from.

Um again, right behind a residential area behind these apartments that are going to look out onto it.

My other concern is precedent.

If you allow this to go through in this area, what does this mean when this gentleman's business either expands or goes out of business?

Are we going to have more manufacturing general on this block?

The other uh concern, and I know he's talked about it with regard to schools.

Um Nottingham High School is about two blocks away.

There are students, there are students who come and go, not just at certain times, like eight o'clock in the morning or three o'clock, but they are coming and going along East Genesee Street all day long.

Either they're arriving late or they're staying late.

Um I'm not sure that this is where you want a manufacturing general area to be put.

Um the other thing is I just learned recently that there are actually apartments right next to the property.

It's a building that's called Transluminal, and apparently there are apartments in it.

It was once a business, or I believe the individual I spoke to said to there's still a business within it, but there are also three apartments in that building.

Um I also have a question, and I'm sure he could probably answer it.

But once these greenhouses are manufactured, where are they gonna store them?

Do they pre-make 10, 15, 100?

Do they put them outside?

Are we going to see lots and lots of greenhouses in a in a driveway?

Um so uh I just don't think this is the right use.

I went to the zoning website and tried to see if there were any other um manufacturing general uses in an area such as this, but I think the special permits are not shown on the maps, so I would just ask you to look at other areas that are zoned as this one is and see whether or not a manufacturing general permit was ever allowed.

For example, I would think like James Street.

Would you put manufacturing general on James Street when on the other side, excuse me, other side of the commercial blocks, there's residences.

Um that's my opposition.

I thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Other speakers in opposition.

Please just come to the podium.

Um give us your name and address for the record and then your comments.

Okay, hi.

My name is Alice Cross.

I live at 209 Hurlbert Road, and I really can't add much more to what Louise said, except that I am opposed to this manufacturing place in my neighborhood.

Um I do believe I we don't know the amount of trucks that could be going back and forth.

We do have the kids walking to school and they don't quite pay attention to the road all the time.

They're usually talking or on their phone, so there was a concern of the dangerousness of this.

And I do hope um I do agree with Louise and I have nothing more to add.

Thank you.

Hi, um, my name is Amy Bodo.

I'm also a resident of Hurlbert Road, and I also object to the location of this um manufacturing proposal.

Um, I drive along this intersection of Hurlbert and and Genesee Street multiple times a day.

And with the advent of the speed um red light cameras and um the school zone, I can tell you that the traffic is backed up regularly, just you can't really make a left turn onto Meadowbrook without a long line of cars in front of you.

I encourage you to go check the site out, and you can see that the volume of traffic right now is already um pretty severe because of the addition of the lights, which are great because people were speeding down this road regularly.

In addition to being near Nottingham, the site is also really close to Juanio, which is a pre-K school.

So you'll often see parents biking with their kids to school or walking with their kids to school.

When my son went to Juanio, I walked with him regularly.

So it it's to me, the thought of having trucks regularly come and bring deliveries and drop off, it's really just not the place for it between two schools and multiple residences who feel the same way.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Other individuals who might wish to speak in opposition, please come to the podium.

Good evening.

Um, our office represents Brookside Realty, who has the large apartment complex on Meadowbrook Drive.

And I'm with Newman and Lickstein.

And then on behalf of the owner, they are um opposed as well to this construction and operation of a factory, so to speak.

Um, they have owned the property for 25 years.

There is severe concern for the noise and for the increased traffic that'll occur with not just vehicles, motor vehicles, but tractor trailers trying to deliver these greenhouses to the various customers of the greenhouses.

Um our client already pays a lot in property taxes, and he's hoping that if this were to be approved, that it wouldn't impact how being able to fill the apartment building with residents because they're opposed to living next to a manufacturer of uh um uh sort.

And just very concerned with the congestion and the impact that it would have on those residents that live in the apartment building as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there other individuals who wish to speak in opposition to the application?

Please come forward to do so.

Uh we'll turn to where did he go?

The applicant.

Um as indicated at the outset, where comments are offered in opposition to an application.

We encourage the uh applicant to address uh those comments made in opposition.

So we have an opportunity to do that if you wish to do so at this time.

Yeah.

I mean you can just address the commission, but keeping in mind the comments that you just heard uh uh opposed to the project.

Yeah.

So the first of all, the main concern that what I hear about the um the storage of the uh our finished product, right?

We do not want to have any uh storage in and if we have any extra, like maybe there is a inside there is enough room to store a few of them, right?

The reason is that we are going to adopt um just in time kind of manufacturing process.

And in fact, the demand is so high based on the data that we have, um, we do not like to keep them storage in the storage.

That is my answer to that particular question.

And regarding um the concerns that we have, as I mentioned to you, the main thing is that if we do not, if we go back to the old model, right?

Old model means making this manufacturing far away.

And first of all, this manufacturing unit, as to the best of my design, and we like to make keep it probably as like it is it, you know, the gas station or even um the the uh the cost you know the car mi car garage, right?

So it will be not a huge, but it will be much better aesthetically looking compared to um in a car garage that is existing right now.

That is what I believe that we are trying to design.

So when we I really respect the view of the neighbors because we like to work with the neighbors, and as I've mentioned in the plan that I have submitted for the noise control and the loading and unloading and the school safety and so forth, right?

I personally I'll take care of when I uh sincerely take care of those proposal and the plan in order to mitigate all the risk at of this uh that has been discussed.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And can you can you just confirm the hours bro, the proposed hours of operation with a Monday to Friday?

Am I recalling correctly?

Yes, and starting when and ending when.

Okay, so uh originally we thought we it would be like a you know eight o'clock, but because of the school, so we'll be not doing anything loading and unloading during the 7.30 to 8 30, right?

Now there'll be some people will come just like office hours.

Uh it would be like eight to five.

Uh that is our standard.

Okay, thank you.

Two two questions.

Uh uh one is in response to the comments.

What what do you anticipate the uh truck traffic to be on delivering the finishing products?

I understand as your business grows, that will obviously change, but what's your anticipation for the amount of truck traffic?

Okay, yeah.

So right now, our goal is based on the demand, we'll be probably producing 300 units a year from that the from that plan.

300.

Okay.

So it will be like a maximum one unit, one SDH unit, the smart greenhouse unit per day.

So there'll be only one load.

Okay.

So and I guess the other question is coming back to the issue of the retaining wall and the foliage.

So far as I can tell, the retaining wall is before the slope where all of the trees and other foliage is, so that you're not anticipating taking down any foliage to build the retaining wall, but I can't tell if that's correct.

So I'm not sure if somebody can speak to that issue.

Because I think that's one of the things that I must admit that I I'm not going to say anything which is not accurate.

So based on the architect that we we worked with and our um the team in the um Cyracuse department that they they have we're meeting all the guidelines as far as the foliage retention as well as to not to disturb the land unless it is needed.

Okay.

Thank you.

A couple of questions.

You indicated you had done this before.

Had you manufactured greenhouses in Arizona?

Well, we have not manufactured in a commercial, but we have manufactured unique one by one on site.

And how many over what period of time?

Okay.

So this project again started this ACAP started in 2014 when we started.

At that time I was still in China.

So anyway, so we have manufactured on site by units, right?

Is it five units, but different capacity and different and and again I'll be more than happy to present it, right?

The design itself evolved significantly.

And especially when we are building it for the winter country, winter season, right?

So the design that we have in Arizona for the greenhouse itself is completely different than the one that we are building.

We built one in Camelas, and that that is exactly what we'd like to build in a commercial.

That would always be the same size.

You'll always build the same size greenhouse and ship it each time.

Exactly.

So our goal is that we best on again we did some customer discovery during the whole time.

And we find that probably 10 foot by 10 foot will be the you know optimum design.

My last question have you or any of your representatives gone around to the neighbors to talk about your project?

Yes, so not in that particular neighbor, but in Camelas, where we started this project, so we we did work with some of the neighbors, and in fact, I'm very much involved with uh uh West Genesis School this big where my my home son are in there.

Sure.

So CMS Candidas Middle School, and in fact, I did work with their students, not only from the teacher, so that we could um give them, not give, but you know, work with them so that the kids can learn how to use this kind of technology.

And again, I I've been very blessed that I have worked also with NYCERDA to make sure that not only in Camulas but other school districts can take advantage of this technology because every student has a uh they have a lunch program, right?

And the lunch program they are getting food from outside, but perhaps in the future, if we could give this greenhouse, then some of the vegetables will be produced on the school campus itself, which will reduce the cost of the tax body as well as it would be healthier.

Okay, but you have not talked to anyone in the neighborhood you're proposing your yes, I I have not had a chance to talk.

Okay, thank you.

And but I'll be more than happy to do so.

Okay, also questions?

I I have a so if I ordered a greenhouse from you.

How what type of truck would deliver it to my house?

What time?

What type of truck?

How big a truck?

Okay.

So the truck would be big enough to handle 10 by 10, right?

It would be like a huge monster trunk or anything like that, right?

And so it's a medium-sized panel truck.

Okay.

Thank you.

And it as far as the landscaping and sort of front visual of the building and the loading station.

Uh would you consider any kind of additional landscaping, additional greenery in the front along the front of the building?

Yes, in the design, I think that one of the we have already provided.

So now maybe I missed it.

Okay, I'll check.

Thank you.

Additional questions.

The applicant?

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

We've heard comments for andor against.

We'll close public comment and turn our attention to our seeker review.

In a moment.

Mr.

Chairman, I was wondering if we are prepared to go forward to that if we need a little time to consider the project.

Totally open to that kind of suggestion.

I would also recommend if we hold that there be much further discussion between the applicant and the neighbors as a way of identifying what the substantive issues really are to be addressed.

If that's the sense of the body, um we can place this on hold.

Um if there's some direction for the applicant.

But if there are additional topics or subjects that the commission is concerned about, um this would be a good time to raise those by way of not to just to discuss them here, but to kind of give the applicant a little bit of a list to work from as he's consulting with neighbors.

I would also suggest the applicant check with our staff uh and confirm that we have everything that is needed to go forward should that occur.

Good.

Yep.

Okay.

So I don't know if we need a motion or by consensus.

Uh if the applicant is in agreement, we can hold.

Um the commission would like to not act upon these uh two applications this evening and encourage you to have some additional dialogue or some dialogue with the neighbors around several of the issues that were raised this evening in the public comment period.

So traffic being one, landscaping another.

I'm recalling, and anyone else help me if I've overlooked um a topic that's been raised here by way of a concern in proceeding with both the resubdivision and the um project that you wish to build.

Those seem to me to be the most specific concerns, some of which we actually raise too.

So I would like some more clarification on the retaining wall, the foliage is going to remain, et cetera, because that's a concern to the neighbors down in the Meadowbrook area.

Uh beyond that, there seems to be concern about the I just the idea of general manufacturing being in this this particular uh zone.

Uh but that's a general concern.

I'm not sure there's too much the applicant can do to address that.

Right, right.

Zoning designation is and advise the applicant to reach back to our staff and double check and confirm the seeker finding.

Right.

You know, and frankly, I do think it's a very interesting project.

I I hope the uh the applicant can figure out a way to uh move forward at that particular site.

So you're agreeable to that pause and some dialogue with neighbors and then um eventually back here after touching base with staff.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you ever to everyone who spoke this evening.

Well, we will it'll be up to the timeline of the applicant to have the conversations and when those have been held and he signals to the staff that um that's been done, we can add it to our schedule.

This body meets about every three weeks.

So I'm not sure it would be those conversations would be completed in time for our next meeting, but they could be, uh, and if not, one of the subsequent meetings uh is most likely.

So in the short answer, no, I can't give a specific um uh uh date when it will be back here.

But it will be the notification will go out in the same fashion as it did for this one, correct?

No.

No.

It will not because it's already been advertised.

So it will be listed on the public notice, but cards will not go up.

Okay.

But we could do cards.

If I think in this case it might be the commission directs us to we can do cards, I think that would be helpful.

That would be helpful.

Given the level of interest.

But but there seems to be a number of things, and in particular, also some secret issues that the county raise that we want to investigate more deeply.

So I would expect it's definitely not going to be on your next agenda and maybe not the one after that.

We do have two meetings in December, so possibly you can make it by the second meeting.

Yes.

We'll send cards out again when it's going to come back on.

We normally wouldn't because it's been advertised for the public hearing.

So the commission is holding the item.

The agenda will be posted, but uh the chair has directed us to send cards out again for this matter.

So we will send neighborhood notification out again.

The meeting dates are online for all the set meetings for this this particular year.

So there's three more meetings this year.

Okay.

Um that is it for that item.

We move on to yet another application this evening.

Next up is the Cathedral Candle Company PDD expansion project.

I'm going to do a little bit more extensive introduction here to try to cue this up for them.

Uh the applicant will present three companion applications uh this evening, one being a master plan review, uh also a zoning map amendment and a district plan amendment.

Uh so the whole project contains four parts.

Um I just named three of them.

Uh it'll also include uh a resubdivision.

Um what we'll do is uh we'll hear them introduce the project to you and answer any questions.

Uh then the commission will deliberate on seeker review for the whole project and decide on the master plan review and then make recommendations and comments uh for the map amendment and the district plan amendment.

Uh this is a type one action, so prepare accordingly.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I I'm Brad Hunt.

I'm a lawyer at McKinsey Hughes.

I represent Cathedral Candle Company, and I'm here with uh several of the owners and operators of the company from the uh Steigerwald family.

Got uh Mark Steigerwald, Lou Steigerwab, John Hovind, Don Steigerwald.

I as you know from the application materials, uh Cathedral Candle has been at its site on Kirkpatrick on the north side since 1897, and these are fourth and fifth generation members of the family that's owned and operated the company ever since then, and that hopes to stay for a very long time in the future, which is why we're uh why we're here tonight with uh the current project.

So what the current application seeks is to add four parcels to the planned development district.

Um the district was established in 1999 and has been expanded four times since then.

There are three parcels on Park Street at the back of the current site that we seek to add, and one on uh Carbon Street, also at the back.

And the uh the purpose of expanding the PDD to add these parcels is to enable uh the construction of a larger than previously planned warehouse building and new manufacturing area.

And uh I think it's important to understand that the new so-called new warehouse building and new manufacturing area that you see there on the proposed amended district plan.

Uh they uh they are they do not currently exist.

They need to be constructed.

They were actually approved uh back in 2015 and are on the current approved district plan that was approved by the planning commission and by the common council uh more than a decade ago now.

They have not been built since then, and we are now ready uh to proceed um with the specific design and plan work uh to uh to do the warehouse building, which is gonna be the first phase of the actual construction, and expect to uh you know submit that project plan application uh within the next year.

And so we're very aware that we'll need to do a full project plan submittal for that as well as the resubdivision application um to with all the all the plan details.

What we're here for tonight is the expand the addition of the parcels, the expansion of the zoning district and the approval of the district plan, which is you know the more general uh plan so that we can know that we have the district and that it's okay to move forward with the specific project planning and uh construction.

Um the other kind of general point I would make is that um the construction of these these uh facilities, which again has been approved for 10 years now, will not actually change the operations of the company in any fundamental way.

They've made candles for 128 years on this site, they're still gonna make candles.

The main purpose of this uh proposal is to uh enable them to conduct their operations at this site uh more efficiently than they currently do.

Uh, currently they have an off-site storage facility and they have trucks that go often more than once a day between the off-site storage facility and this facility.

So the plan is that actually this uh proposal will reduce uh the traffic to and from the site, and uh it's not expected to increase uh the need for parking at all.

They employ uh almost 100 people, more than half of whom live within walking distance on the north side, and uh and that's not expected to uh to change, uh, but it was very important to the company to be able to conduct its operations more efficiently.

Um which will you know make it make it easier uh to uh to remain at this site for the uh for the very uh very long term.

Um so those are the basics.

One one other specific thing I would note is that of the four parcels that were uh seeking to add to the PDD, um, you know, one of them is actually currently on uh Park Street is currently vacant, there's no structure on it at all.

Another has a burnt out vacant home on it, and the other two that have been residences in the past have no active leases at this time.

Um those are the properties that we're seeking seeking to add.

Uh they've got a long history of good relations with the uh with the neighbors that we certainly hope will continue.

And uh also here with us tonight is uh Brittany Belding from the uh landscape architects appell Osborne, so she could tell you a little bit more in detail about the plans and uh if you have any questions about that, could uh could um answer those and and the owners, as I said, are also here.

So thank you.

Uh thank you for your consideration.

Thank you.

Are there questions for the applicant?

I have one question about the inclusion, I guess, of the uh additional properties into the PDD uh that appear to me they're not necessary for the additional construction for the manufacturing operations.

So I'm just curious why those properties are included in the PDD.

They are they will be um the proposed um they will enable the new the proposed new warehouse on the Park Street side and the proposed new manufacturing area on the Carbon Street side to be larger than what was previously planned and approved in 2015.

So that's the basic purpose.

They both those those parts of the uh facility will be able to go further towards the the back and be larger.

That's the basic purpose.

That would extend all the way down to 1230 and 1228.

Uh correct.

Okay.

Yes, thank you.

I have a question.

Will the new warehouse um eliminate the need for additional offsite warehousing space or maintain it at its current level or eliminate that need altogether?

I as I said, you know, the expectation is that it will reduce the need to the extent that it will reduce uh truck traffic.

Uh beyond that, I'm really not sure.

I don't know if one of the owners wants to speak to that.

It won't reduce it all together.

Um questions for the applicant.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in favor of one or more of these related applications?

If so, please come forward, provide your name, address, and comments.

Good evening.

My name is Martin Ave.

I'm first district counselor.

I reside at 233 East Washington Street.

I had a tour of the facility last winter, and we did discuss this.

What it will do is we're gonna eliminate an ice or on Park Street, and it's gonna eliminate uh the trucks going down Pond Street.

So it's gonna be a larger facility.

I think it's gonna be easier for trucks to come in and out.

But besides that, we are assuring our communities that we do support local businesses.

And this business has been here for over 100 years.

So I do ask the Planning Commission, after all said to uh please support this expansion.

It is very much needed, and I will certainly encourage my colleagues on the common council to support this as well.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor.

Other individuals who wish to speak in favor of this application, please come forward.

Provide your name, address, and comments.

Anyone wishing to speak in opposition to the application, please come forward.

Also provide your name, address, and comments.

I see no one rising to speak, so we will close public comment on the this set of applications.

Turn our attention to a bit of work we need to do with our seeker review.

Has everyone had an opportunity to review the EAF part one prepared by the second.

Oh, sorry.

Oh, sir.

Hi.

This is Zitong Wu.

I'm the director of zoning.

Uh my address is 300 South State Street.

Um as you see, uh my colleagues is delivering the seeker reasonings for the commissioners.

So the full environmental assessment form part two on page 180 has been pre-filled with the suggestions from staff.

I'm going to go through the part two to see if commissioners agree with those suggestions.

Additionally, staff has drafted part three determination of significance and a secret resolution which could be used if commissioners decide to act on secret denied.

Amount 18 impacts indicated in part two.

Staff recommend you check no to impact on geological features as there are no unique geological features and no designated national nature landmarks on the project site.

No to impact on surface water as there is no wetlands or other surface water body exists on or adjacent to the property.

A stormwater management system has been designed and coordinated with engineering department already and will be installed installed on the project side to prevent stormwater generated by the action flowing into the nearby properties.

The action will be served by existing water infrastructure instead of withdrawing the water from the surface water.

And no to the impact on groundwater, as the action will not result in any new or additional use of the groundwater.

No to impact on flooding, as the action will not result in development on land subject to flooding.

No to impact on air, as the action will not include a state regulated air emission source and will not require federal or state air emission permits.

No to impact on plants and animals as there is no threatened or endangered species or habitat and no national nature landmark on the site.

No to impact on agricultural resources as there are no agricultural resources on the site on the site.

No to impact on a static uh resources, as action is not located near any cynic or aesthetic resources.

No to impact on historic and archaeological resources, as action will not occur on or substantially contiguous to lands that have been listed or deemed eligible for the national or state register or archaeological sites.

No to impact on open space and recreation as no designated open spaces or recreational uh resources will be displaced by the action.

No to impact on critical environmental areas as uh the site does not contain any critical environmental area.

No to impact on transportation, as the action will not add new parking spaces, nor degrade existing transit access and pedestrian or bike infrastructure with the proposed expansion of the on-site storage and manufacturing area.

No to impact to noise, odor, and light, as the action will comply with the city of Syracuse noise ordinance to mitigate noise impact, will add new outdoor lightning, but will comply with the Syracuse zoning ordinance, which prohibits the light shining onto a drawing properties and will not result in having lighting creating sky glow brighter than existing area conditions.

The action will not result in generating the odors of fumes during operations.

No to impact to human health as no blasting proposed and the project sites does not have a history of contamination or spills.

And the solid waste generated during the operation will be managed by the by following all state, federal, and local laws and regulations.

No to consistency with the community plan, as the action is consistent with the procedure of the reasoning properties into planned development district, and is consistent with the land use and setback requirements regulated by the existing district plan.

The existing land use has been in the neighborhoods for 128 years, and the proposed land use will remain the same.

Thus, it is not in sharp contrast to the surrounding neighborhood.

No to consistency with community character, as the action will not replace or eliminate existing facilities, structures or area of historic importance to the community, will not create a demand or additional community services, will not interfere with the use of enjoyment of official public resources, and is designated to be consistent with the predominant architectural scale and character of the surrounding properties.

The action will continue to provide landscaping buffers along the property boundary and setbacks from the public streets and nearby properties.

Therefore, the staff determined that action is highly unlikely to have significant adverse impacts on the above 16 aspects.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

Then the staff recommend you check yes to follow in impacts.

Impact on land.

This action does involve construction and physical alteration of lands.

Therefore, we recommend that the board answer this question yes.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

The subquestion A through G are asking about the depths to water table, slope of the site, exposed bedrocks, excavation and removal of natural materials, potential erosions, duration of the construction, and if the action is in a coastal erosion hazard area.

Based on the information provided in part one of the FEAF and its response letter, the supplementary materials and action, the action will not involve construction on land with shallow water water table, steep slopes, or within a coastal erosion hazard area.

No excavation, mining or dredging is proposed in this action, and a stormwater management system has been designated and will be installed.

Therefore, I recommend you check no or small impact for the sub questions A, B, D, F, and G.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

Subquestion C indicates that the project may involve construction on land where the bedrocks is generally within five feet of the existing ground surface.

Thus, the action is not likely to have significant adverse impact on bad rocks.

Subquestion E indicates that the project is anticipated to be completed within two or three phases.

The long-term construction do trigger concern on noise impact on nearby properties.

Part of response, the act the action will comply with the City of Syracuse noise ordinance to mitigate noise impact during the construction.

Therefore, I recommend you check no or small impact for the subquestion C and E.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

Yes.

Two, impact on energy.

The action will increase the demand for energy as this action is to expand operation of a manufacturing business.

Therefore, we recommend that the board answer this question, yes.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

However, the action is highly unlikely to result in a significant adverse impact to the energy because firstly, the action will not require a new or an upgrade to an existing substation.

Secondly, the action will not involve heating or cooling of more than 100,000 square feet of the building area.

Thirdly, the action will take place in an already urbanized area with existing electricity infrastructure.

Therefore, I recommend you check no or small impact for the sub question A, B, C, and D.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

Okay, so uh in conclusion, the commission as lead agency in this coordinated review under the state environmental quality review act has thoroughly reviewed all relevant materials and has taken a hard look and analyzed all aspects of action.

For all the reasons that force above, the action uh the commission determines that action would not have any significant adverse impact on the environment, and therefore an environmental impact statement need not to be prepared.

Accordingly, the commission issues a negative declaration to be filed, and notice of the negative negative declaration will be provided pursuant to all applicable laws and regulations.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

That completes the seeker review for this multi-part project.

And the individual components of this we would take up separately, and all of which uh I believe we'll move to the common council for final action.

Sorry.

So with that uh addressing these one at a time, the major site plan review that's MASPR 2522.

Uh is outlined in the presentation a few moments ago.

Is there uh motion for recommendation to the council on no that doesn't go to the council, but uh major site plan review motion.

So just to quite clarifying question, because it's a major site plan review, which doesn't normally go to the common council, but because it's in a uh PDD, does that change that criteria?

No, so think of this as a it's actually a master plan review since it's in a PDD, but it's similar to a major site plan review.

Okay, not in a PDF.

So it does not have to go to Common Council.

Okay, thank you.

So I make a motion to approve MASPR-25-22 as presented with uh three special conditions beyond the general conditions.

First special condition is the owner applicant shall obtain approvals for the zoning map amendment Z-2911 and district plan amendment uh Z-2910, which we will be considering tonight.

Uh to the owner applicant shall obtain necessary approval from the city before commencing uh construction of the proposed new warehouse blending area and manufacturing area.

And three, the applicant owner applicant shall continue working with the city departments uh to address any concerns uh related to the project.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion on this motion before us for the master plan review.

Okay, if no discussion, all in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

The motion for the master plan review is approved for MASPR 2522.

Bringing us next to the zoning map amendment.

Both this and the district plan amendment will require council approval.

So our action takes the form of a recommendation that will be transmitted to the common council for final disposition.

So taking first the zoning map amendment, that's Z 2911 in connection with the project outlined earlier uh this evening.

Is there a motion for action on the zoning map amendment in the form of a recommendation?

Make a motion to approve C-2911 with a recommendation for affirmative action by the common council and two special conditions beyond the general conditions.

Uh one is the owner applicant shall obtain approval of master plan review MSAP-2522, a zoning map amendment and Z-2910.

And two, the owner applicant shall obtain necessary approval from the city before commencing construction on approved uh units that are under construction.

Is there a second?

Second.

Is there a discussion?

If not, all in favor of the motion before us, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

The zoning map amendment recommendation Z 2911 is approved, and we'll move to the common council.

And lastly, for this particular project, the district plan amendment.

That is Z 2910.

That too will go to the council for final action.

But is there a motion or a recommendation to the council on the district plan amendment?

Sure.

Make a motion to approve Z 29-10, a district plan amendment with two special conditions.

One, the owner recommendation of the common council for affirmative action with two special conditions.

One, the owner applicant shall obtain approvals for the master plan review, which has happened tonight, and zoning map amendment Z 2911, which awaits common council approval.

And the owner applicant shall obtain all necessary approvals from the city before commencing construction.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion on this motion for the district plan amendment.

If not, all in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

Motion carries.

This will be presented to the common council for final action.

Um thank you.

Good luck with your project.

Good luck for the next 128 years.

Thank you for your time.

And we move to our next application.

Next is uh another major site plan review with a companion resubdivision.

This is for the Onadaga Hotel and Convention Center.

It includes R 25 48, which is the resub and major site plan review MASPR 25 24, uh represented by CHA Consulting.

Uh this is an MX5 zone district.

Good evening.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Brian Bouchard with CHA Consulting.

So we're the project engineer working on behalf of the owner and applicant for this project, which is the Anondaga Hotel and Convention Center.

And also with me is Dave Newman from Syracuse Lodging Associates who is the owner and applicant for this project, too.

This is a really exciting one to be a part of.

But there were several other projects that I was a part of that really took old uh previously constructed hotels and found them a new use through renovation with some of the multifamily and affordable components that came by way of the rezoned Syracuse.

So that's you know, Genesee Grand Hotel, the Mayflower, the Crown Plaza renovation, all of which were good, you know, adaptive reuse projects for those existing structures.

And I think at the time at the end of one of the meetings, I mentioned that hopefully by way of you know taking some of those hotel rooms offline that it would give a developer an opportunity to bring um what's essentially new modern hotel rooms with modern convention space, the things that's going to continue to attract um all of the events that we have here connected to Syracuse University and our sports teams and everything else that happens downtown.

Um so this is really exciting.

So to give you a brief overview, as staff mentioned, there's two companion pieces, one being the resubdivision, and then the site plan uh review application by way of the resubdivision.

This property which exists at the corner of South Warren Street and East Fayette Street is currently four existing uh parcels containing three vacant parcels and then the existing parking garage structure that total in aggregate the four parcels about 1.15 acres.

Uh all of the properties uh are MX5 zoning district, and they would be combined into one contiguous parcel to support the new development project.

So the map that you see on the screen here, north is actually to the left-hand side of the page with East Fayette there and South Warren Street is on the bottom of the page.

Probably skip to the next slide here to start talking about uh the new project.

So this is a copy of the site plan.

So you can see um typical urban infill development here.

We've utilized um all of the right required setbacks to keep the building in line with all the other downtown buildings on South Warren Street.

So utilizing the majority of the parcel here.

This project will be um, you know, in terms of its site plan, uh, very minimal.

It'll be reconstructing the streetscape because there'll be occupation of that right away just to make way for the new construction, um, temporary logistics and things like that.

So at the end of the project, this would be a reconstructed streetscape with new tree pits, um, snow shelf, all of the things that you see that are matching out there, improved sidewalks, and then um our needs for accessing that parking garage by way of the new curb cuts and driveways.

From this first floor in the site plan, there would also be the things that you would expect with an entrance to the hotel lobby, the corner restaurant that would be on the corner, and then all everything concealed within the building, but also space for back of house services, deliveries and trash, et cetera, off of South Warren Street.

More generally, this is the construction of a 10-story, a new 10-story building that will provide, as I said, some of that much needed convention center space within the downtown area.

So it will be a hotel and convention center, but it also does have attached commercial, which is likely to be restaurant space on the corner.

The first floor, as you can imagine, provides the garage entrances on South Warren Street and an exit onto East Fayette Street.

In the center of the building, there you can see right next to that garage entrance would be an area for the valet and security with the hotel entrance and lobby just to the east of that off South Warren, so right in the middle of the building.

The south end of Orange Street would be some of our necessary mechanical equipment, everything being screened within the building here.

So things like the fire command center, sprinkler systems, and mechanical rooms would be in the south corner of the building there, accessible to the utility providers.

And then sort of behind that space towards the top of the page would be a lot of the back of house services.

So there's some office space, staff offices, laundry, housekeeping, and storage there.

On the corner, which is the hard corner of South Warren Street and East Fayette, there would be 4,500 square foot restaurant space right on that intersection.

And this is actually entrance off of the street for the first floor of that restaurant.

But as we flip to the next page, you'll see that as you enter that space, there's gonna be a second floor that looks down onto the bar area there, too.

So it is a two-story um restaurant space that overlooks that first floor.

And yep, this is perfect.

You can just walk through here.

The Brian on the first floor before you get a second floor.

So 53 bike story space is that on the first floor, is that correct?

That's the first floor of the garage.

So there was, and hopefully it made it into this slideshow, but I did send Zetong a it's actually on the floor.

We go.

Do you have the page that I had sent to you with those bike storage racks?

Um a portion of that garage, you you come in off the street, and a portion of it is a dead end, uh, essentially right in the area.

So this is the ramp that comes up, so you can see the low overhead height.

So there's an extension of the storage area right here that has bike parking.

Thank you.

That wasn't noted on the original submission, but that was one of the staff comments that came forward from uh the zoning office was to ensure that we provided adequate bike storage, and we went through those calculations with staff and provided them with an amended figure to address that comment.

Um, just walking back up the so this is obviously the first floor, floors two through four.

Uh, aside from that extension of the second floor restaurant, floors two through four fill out the um parking garage that we'll be providing.

Um so there is a ramp that comes up to uh all the way up to the the fourth floor here, and you can see that restaurant dining area that would be on the second floor looking down upon the lobby as you enter the restaurant space in the corner there.

Um, if you keep going up after the parking garage, we have floors five through nine, would be five floors of the hotel rooms.

So this is a very stacked typical floor plan for uh the guest uh rooms within the hotel being on those five through ninth floors.

Uh and then when you go all the way to the top floor, this is the 10th floor, which is going to be where the convention center is located.

So when we get to that 10th floor, which should be the next one, I think here.

Perfect.

You'll see right on that corner is the grand ballroom.

So this is 4,000 square feet of ballroom uh banquet square space that would look out over um East Fayette Street in the corner there.

In the center of this 10th floor uh is 8,000 square feet of flexible convention center space.

So you could picture sort of the pre-functionary and some of those breakout rooms and restrooms.

It'll be flexible for anybody wanting to have a convention center here or a convention here.

And then over on the south end of the building is the uh restaurant for the hotel, the restaurant lounge, and the lobby and dining uh bar area.

Just behind that is some of the kitchen and prep space for both the convention areas and the restaurant space there, too.

So in aggregate, what we have is um, you know, first floor with the access to the parking garage and that restaurant space, 4,500 square feet.

The parking garage fills out is about 321 parking spaces.

Floors five through nine are 248 hotel rooms, and then in aggregate, we're providing over 25 uh 26,000 square feet of convention banquet and restaurant space.

Um throughout this process, we've spent the better part of a year on this.

We have addressed several comments from pre-development meetings and staff meetings.

We went through all of the um staff comments that have been circulated for your site plan review packets, and at least to my knowledge and coordinating with Z Tung this morning, we've addressed them all to date, and I don't think there was any lingering.

Um, but these did include things like the um transportation department uh providing them a traffic study.

They had some comments on it.

We revised the traffic study to account for some of the growth with the I-81 corridor and community grid and sent that back to the city transportation planner, and he was satisfied with those.

We also met probably a week and a few days ago with the Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board because this does exist in downtown and all of downtown is considered part of the historic fabric of Syracuse.

Um previously in the spring, they went through with the applicant the ability to formally resolve the um demolition of the existing garage.

So our meeting a week and a half ago with them was to show them um the new construction and compatibility with the uh character of the downtown area, and believe that they also provided to you uh a positive recommendation for this as well.

There was a few comments with some of the computer generated images and clarifications uh that we sent right back to Kate in her office um shortly after that meeting, and she was satisfied.

And then obviously the bike parking uh Barry, which you already picked up that was added to the plan based on staff review.

Um we do have, yeah.

If you want to just go, do we have the the rendering, the street perspective rendering that we can end on here?

Maybe not.

Oh, it's still loading.

Okay, sorry.

There it is, perfect.

So photorealistic image of what you would see.

Um to explain this to you, we did go through this with Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board, but there is a multicolored tile, sort of a large format tile that is essentially what's beyond that is the elevator um area.

And this was chosen by the architect uh as a large format tile to uh express that elevator core essentially as a vertical element and drew upon all of the downtown area and locale for some of the historic motifs and some of this art um deco influences that are in the surrounding area for that piece too.

The other only other thing that I want to mention is that um for this board's benefit, we have been working with SIDA uh pretty extensively, and during their sequence of events, they did adopt their lead agency status uh and did already go through the seeker resolution for this project.

So that was completed by them.

And then truly just our excitement to get this project underway.

Obviously, this is dealing with that existing garage, which is in disrepair and it's been condemned, needs to come down as quick as possible.

Um, Dave and I have talked about the project timeline, which hopefully after tonight's meeting can come into place in terms of submitting building permits as soon as the next couple weeks so that he can start um progressing through the closing on his uh financing with the uh with the project to start construction uh January 1st.

Brian, at one point there was a rendering that showed uh an effort to retain the parking sign is historical feature.

Yes.

That seems to have disappeared.

Nope, actually, it may have blended into the photorealistic simulation here, but that was one piece that we decided to.

Oh, oh, there it is.

Right, right.

I got distracted by the colorful tower towel.

I will mention that we have had extensive conversations about taking that down before the garage falls onto it.

Um salvaging it, returning it to its former glory, and using it above our new garage entrance.

It will translate in space um to match our new garage entrance.

So it's moving north a little little bit along that, but we will save that.

There will still be uh the desire to have some building-mounted signage in terms of the Onondaga hotel, but just to say this to the planning commission, we have not included any of the signed package for your uh review and approval this evening.

There's a few complicated things that happen with those signs in terms of their projection out into the right-of-way and other things that we wouldn't need to go through in terms of an encroachment permit.

Um, and those would have to be taken at a later time, and we would certainly come back to the planning commission for um any you know reasoning behind what might happen with the encroachments and and justify that for you all as a separate um signage item in particular.

We're more excited about getting the project approved.

Wow, thank you.

That's a lot.

Questions for the applicant.

Is it where are we with the branding for the hotel and the two restaurants?

In terms of the branding and the name.

Yeah.

Um being called the Ananaga Hotel and Convention Center.

I'm pretty sure that's that's uh the way it'll stick, right?

Is there a tie into a national chain?

Oh, Anondaga Hotel.

So um Dave can correct me if I'm misspeaking this, but there used to be an Onondaga hotel on this block.

So it was historic.

It was demolished.

I don't know what the time period was.

Um, and I believe it's where the icon towers is currently.

Um so modern construction was built in its way, essentially.

Um, obviously the the parking garage exists, but isn't necessarily historic, but the old hotel looked very similar to this, and a lot of what you see in terms of its architecture was drawn from the previous Onondaga hotel that it was was at the corner of um South Warren and East Fayette.

So it's a not to history essentially.

You're asking if it's brand or planning.

Okay, yeah.

Oh, the actual operator.

Sorry, I thought you meant the name of the building for branding.

It'll be a Hilton Curio uh branded hotel.

Yep.

Further questions.

Ryan, can you just clarify the access in the back for the Y?

Yes, I know that um Dave has been working extensively with the Y because there is some egress there.

Um our building, both in terms of temporary and construction, he has agreements with the Y.

They've met several times with them in code enforcement to make sure um that life safety during construction is met, and then there's also a permanent solution after the building is built to continue to allow that access as needed.

Yeah, there's a gap currently between the new building and the Pavones building that doesn't exist today.

So essentially we'll still be able to egress not only our our own building out that small alleyway, but continue to provide uh the why that access as well.

Additional questions.

Okay, thank you.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in favor of this application?

If so, please come forward to provide your comments.

My name is Kevin Schwab.

Uh, I'm with Center State CEO.

We're an economic development organization and business leadership organization based here in Syracuse over at 115 West Fayette Street.

Uh just wanted to make a couple of brief comments uh in support uh of this project.

First of all, uh it's hard to have anybody uh do better at this than Brian to be to be frank.

So I'm gonna be brief uh and touch on uh the project, the impact, uh, and say a couple of words about the developer and how fortunate I think we are uh in all three aspects here on this project.

Um we're talking about 245 new hotel rooms that we sorely need in Syracuse.

Uh in part, it's Brian's fault because he helped people convert uh other hotel rooms to apartments.

Uh, but we really do need a project like this, and I could not think of a better place to put it.

An amenity-rich new hotel to complement the incredibly successful historic Marriott downtown Syracuse, right down the street, only strengthens uh our central business district uh and our ability to attract conventions uh and conferences to the city.

Um this is an 87 million dollar investment, 330 construction jobs that will pay very well during this process, more than 50 permanent jobs once this hotel is up and running.

Uh again, um right now we are struggling, frankly, in the early phases of the added business that we see in the city to accommodate folks coming in and out, whether it be for Micron or other projects that we have underway.

We know we need more hotel space.

This is going to be incredibly important to meet that demand that is only going to increase uh in the months and years ahead.

Um we also know that frankly, we need to get rid of this eyesore on uh Warren Street, and I couldn't think of a better way to do this and to meet the needs of the community.

Um Warren Street has come a long way in the last few years.

This panel, this commission, as you know, was incredibly instrumental in helping to get the redevelopment of and the expansion of the former Tech Garden into the new Inspire Innovation Hub.

And from that building to the north, you can look and see the momentum we have on Warren Street, whether it's Impel, whether it's Sidearm Sports, whether it's Ephesus, literally hundreds, perhaps more than a thousand jobs total downtown, stemming from what we've seen emerging from Warren Street.

This will only help keep that momentum.

And the developer, the final thing I wanted to make sure that we touched on.

Some development is a virtual highlight reel of successful hotel projects around the country.

Look at LA, look at Dallas, look at Austin, Orlando, Atlanta, the New York City metro area.

And soon, hopefully, Syracuse.

They are an award-winning developer and owner of dozens of hotels, more than 4,000 hotel rooms around the country.

We are fortunate that they want to be here.

We have a lot to offer.

We certainly are glad to see them trying to take advantage of the momentum here in Syracuse and build something suited for the time that we are in.

So we appreciate your consideration, and I'm proud to offer our support for this developer and this project.

Thank you, Kevin.

Additional speakers in favor of this application, please come forward.

Provide your name, address, and comments.

Good evening, Josh Royce.

I'm here tonight on behalf of the YMCA of Central New York, 340 Montgomery Street, a neighbor who is excited to support this application of our potential neighbor coming into the neighborhood.

Over the last few months, Dave and their team have been great to work with.

Many conversations, answering all of our questions of what the Y will be having to kind of work through through the months of construction and after construction.

I think we're really excited about the growth.

This is another step forward for the revitalization of our downtown.

So we're happily support this application.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other speakers in favor of this application, please come forward.

Anyone wishing to speak in opposition to the application, please come forward, provide your name, address, and comments.

William Pitcher of WJP Architecture, uh speaking for St.

Paul's Church.

I'm also chairman of the Buildings and Grounds Committee of St.

Paul's Church.

We have two concerns that have not been addressed and which we have become aware of recently.

One is the data cable that passes through the Warren Street parking garage, which provides all of the existing data voice and communication systems for the church.

And we are asking as a condition of the approval and the building permit that this cable be temporarily locate relocated and protected for continuation of service while the building, the Warren Street garage is being demolished.

Do you have that drawing?

I have a drawing of the site plan to explain it.

Basically, the cable comes out of Warren Street communications, goes through the garage, it goes along the east wall of the garage.

Yes.

Okay.

Then it jumps over the alleyway and goes along the old Masonic Temple building, jumps our alleyway and goes into our building.

The third cable coming out of the box is attached to the west wall of the old Masonic Temple and heads towards the YMCA.

So there may be other properties that would be affected by this cable being disturbed and cut.

We've recently discovered that we do not have any underground communications cables or conduits into the church building itself.

So alternate pathways are very difficult.

So alternate pathways are very difficult, and we'd like to talk to the hotel developers about alternate pathways.

See what we can do somehow.

We're either going to have to do an easement for passage through the hotel property, or we're going to have to get dig up Fayette Street or Montgomery Street to put underground conduits in.

We have another problem that the Montgomery Street, when the water main was put in, the city made a five-year moratorium on any digging of Montgomery Street for new construction.

We still have about, I think, three years in that moratorium, which precludes doing that.

The only other conduit that we have is at the corner at the corner here.

At the corner of Fayette and Montgomery, there is a communications manhole in the middle of the street.

We could dig up that entire intersection.

That's the nearest manhole to the church.

So this is something that we want to discuss and figure out how to go forward.

We're just concerned in the immediate future of preserving that cable and not losing all of our voice data services.

That's the first issue.

The second issue is that there is an easement where the word Lafayette building says there.

Further, there are some questions about adverse possession, whether the 40 years that we've used the um what used to be the post-standard building and the bank building where the word overhead is.

That's at your corner there.

So there's a whole question of easement and who owns which part of the property and who can do which with the property, which we would like to discuss and have further uh investigation.

It needs to be gone through all the old deeds, and we need to see how whatever easement was passed.

I have found an old form in uh the church that the Kingsley House, which was basically the R parking lot, which was the Eccle Theater site.

Uh the Kingsley did not have access to Fayette Street, but had an easement from the Lafayette building to get to it.

But when we look at our person, our present survey, our present survey runs right up along the Fayette building.

So there must be somewhere in the in all of this back and forth.

There must have been a resubdivision that took it easement from the Fayette from the Fayette building back into the total parcel for the Eccle Theater.

So there's there's questions of where the easement went and how it went.

Those are our two basic concerns.

Could you clarify?

Excuse me.

So you're not actually speaking against the project, but you need to have those concerns addressed.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Well, oh before this speaker sits down, I was just going to ask were there any other clarifying questions from other commission members.

Okay.

Do you know who owns the data cable?

Uh Spectrum.

We had the spectrum engineer over about two weeks ago, and we traced the path and confirmed on his drawings that is passing through the garage.

And that's where we discovered the additional cables and the um junction box.

We were talking to them about possibly upgrading service, and we were looking for a pathway for fiber optic.

But the existing pathway of the cable would not be available for the fiber optic without doing something.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Other individuals in opposition to the application, please come forward.

Provide your name, address, and your comments.

Frederick P.

Davies, I own Putnam properties, which in turn owns the Lafayette building.

210 East Fayette Street in Syracuse, New York.

I need to address quickly on the easement.

We assert that easement is a Lafayette building.

Because that's the way to go along the side of Lafayette Building and get into the back of our building.

And we've used it over the years to do pre-construction and all sorts of things.

So I know that's not this hearing this evening, but just to let people know, that's we consider that our easement.

Now I wonder if you could go back to the uh the Onondaga, and there's an aerial, I believe, in there.

Because I want to show you some of the Lafayette building.

Yeah.

Okay.

Is there an aerial?

Yeah, right there.

Okay.

I mean, okay.

If I may Lafayette building, we have a path through here, which is I call it a brick pathway or driveway, whatever.

And then we have some area back here.

We have a gateway.

So that's the off the building.

When I first saw the advertisement on I'm not sure what I could have put in this new system.

That was early in the spring, maybe uh late place one time.

I called CIDA because I knew CIDA owned the lots that are looked like looking for the building.

I call it SIDA and say, what's going on?

And I said, I'd like to see some plans.

So they said, fine, we'll show you.

Weeks went by.

No plan.

Finally, I get this artist for an edition of it.

But that was it.

I've asked repeatedly for the plan.

And surprisingly, I get a little card from you folks that oh, I'm right.

Here are all the plans.

So this is all news to me about all of these plans.

Because I've been asking about repeatedly because it really does affect my building.

I mean, it's building on two sides of the laptop building, which isn't historically.

I'm not in opposition, and I want to make this clear.

I'm not an opposition of tearing down the parking lot.

It needs to go.

I'm not in opposition of creating more parking.

I'm not in opposition of building a hotel.

My opposition deals with what's going to happen, what's the impact on my building?

That's my concern.

So I want to address a couple of things this evening.

But the bottom line is what I'm asking for to do is to keep this hearing open so that I can finally meet with the developers because Ida never introduced me to the developers.

I've never talked to them.

I I find it interesting that they've talked to all these other people, the YMCA, everybody else, but they've never talked to me, which I find very curious.

But in any event, what I'd like to do is just talk a little bit about my building and then just some of the issues that I have based upon the very short time period I had to pull it off the website because I got that hard Friday in the mail.

So just bear with me.

This isn't everything.

I'm just trying to give you a sense of what we're looking for.

I bought the building 22 years ago, and I fell in love with it.

Because when I went upstairs, it had a 360 degree view.

Big giant windows all the way around, all the way down through the building.

Windows that you could open.

I mean, really open.

I mean, big screens, everything else.

It had beautiful views, it had great air.

We don't even use the electricity in our building most of the time.

The windows are so big unless it's dark outside.

Which is it's just lit up because of all of the light.

Well, as I said, um CIDA owned those those lots down there.

And it used to be that there were two or three-story buildings to the west of the building.

So as a result, we had beautiful views, light lots of airboat.

Now with this idea of a 10-story building, what they're gonna do is they're going to completely block this side of my building and this side of my building.

So the views are gone, the air's gone, the light is gone.

So to me, that's a big deal for a historic building that we shouldn't just be all of a sudden changing its utility and also its value.

Because the value of this building is going to drop dramatically based upon what they're talking about.

So there are a couple of things that I do want to talk about that are really critical to me.

That's this building on.

First of all, this exit out of the garage.

They're talking about 317 parking spaces in this building.

All of them exiting out here, where the corner is right here, so people come around too fast most of the time.

Now we're going to have a stream of cars going out of here, I don't know which way.

I have trouble getting out onto East Fayette Street just when I come out from my parking lot here just to go home.

So now they're going to tow another 317 potentially cars going in and out of this, no, just going out of this garage.

This makes no sense to me at all.

Because if you look at the former garage, it had in and out both on South Orange Street.

Made sense.

From what I can tell by looking at the plans, of course, I haven't had a chance to really study them, is they're talking about putting some kind of attractive traffic device on South Warren, which makes sense because we've got the parking garage and the Barclay Damon building, and this one on the other side, so that we can control the traffic.

So it makes complete sense to me to have ingress and egress here, not flooding into East Bad Street, which used to be a wide boulevard.

But if you remember, they narrowed it, put in big sidewalks, put in bike lanes, and now we're down to one going each way, which is congested.

Now you're going to put all of these cars into here and increase the congestion dramatically.

So one of the things I'd like to talk to the developers about, would they consider maybe making this a little bigger, ingress egress?

You've got your traffic device here, and then we're not flooding cars into East Bayette Street, which if you've ever been on there in the rush hour, I can't get out of there.

I just have to sit and wait.

Because there's so many cars that back up at the traffic light.

So if you're trying to make a left turn, forget it.

Right turn you can sometimes get out.

But now in the middle of the day, it's not too bad.

So one of my concerns is adding 317 parking spaces with cars flooding out of here into a road that is narrow with bicycle lanes and pedestrians.

And there are a lot of people who walk past my building.

And me with my little cutout right over here.

What happens if they make a quick right turn?

I'm here.

Bam.

So that has a major concern for me in terms of safety and also just the utility of the earth.

Now the next thing, and I'm sorry, and they're not necessarily priority of how important they are.

I'm just kind of, as I said, I looked at this thing very quickly.

I haven't had a chance to build that past it.

Wonderful.

I didn't know a lot about this building.

Even though I own the building that they're wrapping themselves around.

So then the next thing is noise and air pollution.

If we've got all of these cars going in and out of there, what are their plans for noise pollution?

What are their plans for particulates in the air for all the emissions that are coming off of these cars?

Now, are they planning on putting some kind of fans there?

But then where are the fans going to blow?

Are they going to blow up into my building?

Prevailing winds are from the west, they're going to blow into the top of my building, and now these fumes are going to go down into my building because that's where I get my fresh air from, the roof of my building.

So I don't know what they're going to do.

I don't know if they even have a plan concerning emissions from cars.

I don't know about noise.

I mean, we have a very quiet office building.

You know, my law firm sits on the six and seventh floors.

What are they going to do about noise?

I don't know.

There's nothing in there that talks about noise.

So that's an area I'm concerned about.

Another one is drainage.

If they build this building around here, there's no place for the water to drain out of my patio.

Right now it's draining into the parks.

What's the plan for drainage?

There's nothing that I can see that's in there.

Then we've got the windows that if I understand reading the plans right, is they're going to have hotel windows that are going to be looking into my windows in my building approximately 10 feet.

So we're going to have conversations with the people that are in the hotel.

They're getting that close.

I'm sorry if I seem animated, it's because I am.

I apologize for that.

And then the last thing is just this building, as I said, it's been a spectacular building for its view.

It's been around for a very long time.

Hundreds and hundreds of different businesses have gone in and out of here.

He gun Ernstspiel was on the third floor.

It took me two years to get rid of the pink peats on the walls.

It was unbelievable.

But there's a tremendous history of what goes on in this building.

And I think it's worth it to protect it.

Now, here's the thing, though, as I said before, I'm not against the project.

But how about talking to me?

And let's talk about what we can do to look at this thing.

I mean, have they considered more of a tower going up like the Barclay and Damon?

Let's see, Barkley Damon building, which gives beautiful views of the city instead of being low and looking into the windows of my building.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I would rent a room that looks into a building 10 feet away with people in their in their office.

So I don't know.

I I don't know.

So anyway, I'm very glad that I got your book hard.

Because I have no idea this was going on.

Because I have I'm not claiming anybody, but I've been contacting them regularly, all the time, and they never gave me these plans until I found them on your website saying it'll be posted in 72 hours before the serum.

So what I'm asking for is time.

Time to get all the information.

I don't think they must have done traffic, some kind of traffic.

So I can talk with these people and work with them.

So that my building can still be a good vibe of buildings, but also build this beautiful building off.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So I make the second statement.

Sure.

Brief.

Can you go down a little bit on the easement that we have been talking about?

This is the edge of the property line.

This is the old poststandard building, which was replaced by a bank in 1949.

And there was a drive-thru that came through here, and on the last 10 feet, came out here.

And then we also have this existing alleyway between the Masonic Temple and the new thing.

So the question is for this easement.

This particular trunk of land from here over to the Masonic Temple is where the Syracuse Industrial Authority put the fence between the park and between the asphalt that was paved in our parking lot.

Since 1979, when the building when the theater was demolished, that area was paved continuously.

Apparently, they are acknowledging the existence of the asshole.

And the question is we created an easement on that property for parking by use over 40 years.

That's one of the easement questions we wish to have found out.

Thank you.

Other people wishing to speak in opposition to the application, please come forward.

And I'm also the legal representative for St.

Paul's Church.

And like Fred, the first time I heard any of these details.

I mean, I had heard the newspaper that this hotel was going to be built.

And I'm I am totally in favor of the redevelopment of downtown Syracuse.

I love the fact that I can barely turn out onto East Fayette Street now to get out of the church parking lot.

But this has an enormous impact on us, and this is the very first I've heard any of these details.

If I can just point out something on the uh plan here.

So this is our church parking lot, which accommodates about 40 cars.

We rent these out to people who work downtown Monday through Saturday, and then they're used by church members on Sunday.

This uh right away here is essentially our entrance into the parking lot.

This the rest of this space often being filled with cars.

So obviously, this is really important for our members, many of whom are handicapped, have handicapped tags, and need to have access close to a new entrance, which we actually just opened on the west side of our building.

I don't know if you saw it, but the mayor was there for our ribbon cutting on Friday afternoon at noon, just about four hours before I got this postcard in the mail about this.

So we've put a lot into making this side of the building a lot more usable for us.

Um and our church is not the only group that uses the parking lot.

Uh St.

Paul's um kind of a center for arts all over downtown.

Uh the Syracuse Orchester will hold 12 concerts there this year.

Um Peckney, the preservation association of Central New York will hold their meeting there in about six weeks.

Syracuse community choir, Syracuse Pops course.

We have many groups using the church and also really using this parking lot.

Our, I'll just tell you our long-term plan for the parking lot was that on that.

This is our entrance in right here.

Um we know that as the church gets used more for um a performance facility over the years because it's just increasing by this new entrance that we've built into the church, which is you you can't see, but it would be on the side of the parking lot.

We need to have establish a good drop box so people are not just like parked in front of Fayette Street, dropping off traffic because we're trying to deal with the traffic by having it covered right here.

Um our new entrance is right in here.

We're trying to deal with this increase in use in our facility by having a U-shaped um parking lot facility where people can get drop-out right at the main new entrance doors here.

So it won't be clogging up Fayette Street.

That was our purpose.

In in doing that.

So we're in the middle of we just finished a two and a half million dollar renovation in the building.

Now we're starting to work on the parking lot.

And actually, we just had a meeting of our board a week ago um about repaving the parking lot itself.

That was the first step, and the second step was to put in a new exit so we could get that drop off.

So again, I'm not against having the hotel.

This is the first time I've had any contact, and I am the legal representative of St.

Paul's Church.

And so to have it presented to us this way is um it's quite surprising.

And I would I would love to have some more time.

Um again, the church has been using this access lane for over 50, no, not for over 50 years, about 46 years now.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Other individuals who wish to speak in opposition to the application, please come forward.

Very briefly, I'm Brad Hunt from McKenzie Hughes.

I just wanted to uh let everyone know that uh Mr.

Davies just retained me for this matter at today.

And obviously, as I you know, this has all been kind of last minute.

So I don't really have anything substantively to add.

We're looking, we're hoping for a chance to communicate with the developers.

And I just wanted to say we'd be willing certainly to work with them to make that happen quickly because we understand that there's a desire to move this uh project along.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other individuals wishing to speak in opposition.

Please come forward.

In that case, um Brian, if you were here at the very beginning or from previous practice, you know that when comments are offered in opposition, we also afford the applicant an opportunity to address some of those comments in opposition.

So here's an opportunity um to do that this evening.

I would be happy to.

So um first, Dave Newman, who's with me here tonight, has assured me that he has reached out on numerous occasions to all of his neighbors.

Obviously, has worked extensively with the YMCA, um, but did reach out specifically to the Lafayette building and St.

Paul's Church to um bring them through the um sequence of events that led us to today as well.

Um that's fine.

I'm just telling you, and I didn't interrupt you when you were talking.

Thank you.

Um so that collaboration reach out effort did happen.

It sounds like um there was a few, you know, comments and questions related to traffic, which is very reasonable.

Um, the existing parking garage has 400 spaces.

We're providing 350.

So there's inherently a reduction in the parking uh that would be used, which you can find in the traffic study.

I would clarify that the um entrance, although there's an arrow there, there is an entrance that will be an entrance and exit.

It's a two-way entrance and exit onto South Warren Street.

So this would give the ability for people going northbound on um South Warren Street not to use the uh Fayette entrance and try and take a left out of there.

Um there's a lot of other things dealing with air emissions.

Um, and some of those types of questions obviously are part of the secret process, which is complete, but I will answer them.

There are a lot of code uh and rules that apply to parking garages in terms of both their either mechanical ventilation or open air venting.

Um so those are all covered by building codes.

Uh and then also proximity and separation to property lines is also something that's um inherent in the New York State building code in terms of the amount of glazing and percentage of windows that you can have within certain distances to the property lines, too.

Uh the entire improvements that are proposed are contained within the private property that um the the project would be developed on.

So we're not relying upon any um usage of any neighboring properties to facilitate the project.

Almost everything else that I heard to me, thankfully, sounded like a lot of private to private property owner issues that certainly still need to be uh resolved.

I some of them Dave and I haven't even heard of in terms of the telecommunication lines and probably some old skeletons that exist in terms of the way the properties have been commingled, whether it's by data or fiber or whatever those conduits were that Dave is willing to uh address as part of the process.

I just don't think that that's part of the planning commission's purview in terms of your approval and entitlement and um approving the project as a uh conforming project to the zoning code essentially, right?

Um all of those things do with the the title work and abstracts and some of the other things that I know Dave's team uh has already looked through, but can certainly be um resolved in a private to private um discussion, uh which both both of the speakers uh suggested as well, and we'll uh try and make that outreach again.

So unless there's only any other questions that you would like me to address other than some of those private property issues, okay.

Thank you.

Good, thank you.

We will close public comment on this and we didn't correct.

You can confirm that site has completed the seeker review.

I think that's been mentioned a couple of times this evening.

That's yes, accurate.

So we don't need to do that.

Um we have the resubdivision and the major site plan review to come to this body, and if there is a motion for action on either or both of those this evening, those can be considered by this body if there's a dire from the commission members to hold for any reason that can be considered as well.

Is there a suggestion on Mr.

Chairman?

I I think because we had a very vibrant discussion, you know, from all sides through that holding this might be wise and would give interested parties a chance to communicate with the developer and um the other thing certainly we can't resolve here in in the short time that we have, but probably holding the pieces to this application would be a good thing tonight.

Well, I mean, I think Brian has a point in terms of the issues uh primarily issues between property owners that need to be resolved.

Uh in just in terms of issues related to code, they're not code issues per se.

So as far as the master stand uh master plan reproval goes, uh it would if we proceed with it tonight, I would assume we need to have some condition in there about communicating with the neighbors to ensure that the critical issues that have been identified are resolved to the satisfaction of everybody.

So if you were to proceed tonight, it would seem that we'd have to add that condition.

It could be a tough condition to me.

We're spitballing this here because these are issues that were raised tonight.

What's he suggesting?

He's saying we approve it with a condition.

Property rights discussions amongst the different priorities.

The different parties are resolved.

As a condition of approval, he's asking or he's suggesting that there be a condition that approval is contingent on resolving these private property issues.

I I don't see how that condition is enforceable because if they can't resolve it, then that negates your approval should you approve the project.

I mean what we have done before are are two things.

One is that um the board has studiously avoided um involving themselves in private property issues, and and when we have ventured forth and done that, it it ended up in a bit of a disaster.

I might uh remind you of the Brighton car wash issue and the property line dispute.

Um and every time they thought they had a resolution, they didn't.

Um and that delayed the project for for a long time.

The second issue is um we have in the past, as the zoning administrator just reminded me, um required that there be a good faith effort between the parties to resolve the private issues that have been um commented upon.

And that could be a condition of the approval.

Because frankly, I don't think that resolution of those issues is enforceable.

I mean what's a resolution?

Is resolution of the issues that one side gets something they want and the other concedes something?

I I don't know how that that can be an enforceable condition that our staff can say, well, you didn't do this, so we can't move this on to building permit stage or something like that.

Let me ask a staff question from a commission point of view, because I know the staff did extensive work looking at the properties history.

Would your normal searches have come up with any written agreements between the properties?

Would our would our city records show that?

You're talking about the easement specifically.

Well, easements licenses, you know, in other words, if if there was a time when someone said Syracuse is a lot of buildings with walls touch, right?

And property owners have had to agree to that.

Generally generally speaking, we um don't have those records.

And I mean when we've tried to find them, for example, a great example of those type of records, easements mostly show up on a survey, right?

But often what doesn't show up is um private agreements, for example, off-site parking agreements.

We have tried to uh require that they be recorded, but we've gotten some pushback from the clerk's office, um, because once something's recorded, it's traceable and we can access it and and we're trying to set up our record keeping so that in the future when none of us are here uh staff and the commission can find out what was actually agreed to.

So um we do uh Commissioner Bulls, we do do extensive research on every application um through many, many different types of historical records.

Um could walk you through that, but um if a record is extant in the city's database, we have five digital databases that we look at, some of which are newer and some are older.

We actually have just recently completed going through some how many boxes were there 785 boxes of old records and we have documented them and um uh to make sure that when we do parcel research, we're accounting for everything the city still has.

Some things have been lost in floods.

So I I uh and long answer to your question.

Um if it's not recorded, we don't have a way to find it unless it's in a file.

And we have uh made the effort to go through literally those 785 uh boxes and we've tied them now to the addresses of every building in the city that has a file.

Sure.

But you you've answered the question that what I was asking was if there was a something that was recorded, we would know about it.

If there was uh for whatever reason, a condition that someone created for renovations because we had a past commission member was actively involved in renovations of that church.

So just saying in the back of one's mind you recall all these things going on.

Yep.

Just awareness of it.

That doesn't mean it's we're in not recognizing the merit of every single you know application that we had tonight, simply saying there were times we remember certain things like moratoriums, and we'll say, oh wait, did that block have a certain issue when it came to construction?

Did it have an issue when it came to you know how people shared whatever may have been our data is different now than it was in 1980?

And some of those things might be registered within our digital databases.

Um we have fortunately we we look at the sandborn maps to see what was extant on a particular parcel.

We have uh thank goodness the little index cards on every single property that the former zoning administrator Chuck Ladd kept.

We have his entire database with his notes on every property that passed through his desk for I don't know how long he was here.

Those are items that we absolutely require the staff to look up.

They now have access to the paper files, which we didn't have access to before because they weren't coded according to address.

We um we reach out to other departments like the assessor, we look at their data.

So we try to in our parcel research cover everything that we have access to.

Sure.

And that for tonight and for this record we also uh but you are you've answered my question.

We're like I said, just and I just for the record also, we also now because I we trained the staff to do this, we also look at the assessor cards.

There are these yellow cards that have been kept historically on every property that talks about what was built and when, and it also records over time easements and other eventualities that are attached to the property.

Uh we also check those on every single parcel.

Thank you.

I think one of the struggles for me in thinking about this is the issues that were raised by uh the folks who spoke about their concerns is that they're not all equivalent.

And something like the infrastructure issue that would impact St.

Paul's is a little bit different than some of the other issues.

And I appreciate uh your comment that uh with respect to enforceability, if we try to put something in in the conditions.

And I wonder just with respect to that, if the good faith clause is that any better.

Does that get us any further along or just open the you know the field for more lawsuits, etc.?

I think that this is a little personal, but um we have Mr.

Bouchard appears in front of this board quite frequently, and as applicants go, I believe that his outreach to um neighbors, um, what they did with the church around the Geiger project where they initiated the protection of that that small wooden church, it wasn't the church that necessarily initiated that, and they they uh took the initiative to do this special rubber padding to keep it from vibrating.

So in this instance, the good faith clause, I think, and I'm not disparaging anybody else, but I think that if there were such a condition that of all people who appear before you and who's representing an applicant, Mr.

Bouchard would uh take that very seriously and do whatever they could to facilitate that kind of condition.

And I'm again, I'm not suggesting that the concerns that were raised are not legitimate.

They are they are not things that the board or even our review, this is zoning, right?

So in terms of traffic, there could be an agreement, and again, it's not us with DPW that that exit over there only turn left instead of turning right in front of the building next door.

Um so there are other solutions, but they're not solutions that you can mandate because you can't mandate something to DPW, and we can't, but it can be broached by the applicant and the concerned uh parties.

Um in terms of particulate matter coming out of the building and uh wind gusts and stuff from the air.

That's again something that I'm not even sure uh Jitong can tell me that that the seeker process gets that micro on it, to be honest, because we when we do the seeker review, um we actually take what the applicant submits and then uh Zhitong, I think he's usually our seeker lead, and this just gives you an idea of of the level of detail the staff goes into.

He actually compares, so there's the criteria on the EA EAF.

And then there's the what is it called?

The one that has all the really deep detail, the the workbook or he actually compares the answers at a deeper level to a document the state has that allows you to peel away the layers and look more deeply at at what they're really asking for.

And we do that on every EAF, so that we're satisfied that what the applicant has presented is accurate, because if we didn't think so, we wouldn't accept it and present it to you that way.

So I I feel like from a zoning perspective that the due diligence has been done and that a lot of the very very legitimate concerns that have been raised tonight, um absent the church, because that's uh you know again if it's a DPW issue, that's one thing.

If it's a zoning number of parking spaces issue, that's us.

But he's talking about access.

That's not a zoning issue, and that's not something you can control or make conditions about necessarily.

Curb cuts and things like that.

Um that's if if I'm not sure I understood the the issue with the parking for the church fully.

There are nights that we don't take action because we're waiting to see what the DPW says.

You can do that.

I mean, they commented on this, but they probably didn't look at it in the I'm not advocating for you to hold it or vote on it, but in any way.

This is all about the thoroughness of the record because when people look back at the tape, they're gonna say, what were they thinking?

Yep.

No, um, I I think that um again you can hold it and Mr.

Bouchard and um the church can reach out to DPW to talk to them about those access issues to talk to them about the um park the the traffic flow issues coming out of that egress.

Um maybe that that um exit can be moved over to the center of that building.

I don't know because I'm not a designer and we don't we don't design projects either.

When we we get something, we take it as it looks like so the staff is prohibited from saying, hey, you know, there's a building next door, why don't you move that over?

They're just not allowed to do that.

So um I think holding it to direct the applicant to in good faith meet with everybody would be a good idea, to be honest with you, but I'm not sure that they're going to come back with resolutions.

One thing I'd like to add to that, um as bold zoning administrator and uh deputy commissioner of code enforcement, um is just taking this project out of it, and when we review either construction drawings for compliance with building code, or when we're reviewing land uses, you know, this is a permitted use, right?

And what is the criteria, what is before you?

It's a it's a site plan review, and what are the requirements to get approval for a site plan and the criteria, and I can read them, uh, approval for site plans shall be approved upon a finding that the application meets all of the following.

It's consistent with the general purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance.

The site is consistent with dimensional design development and other standards of this ordinance, and the site plan is generally consistent with the comprehensive plan and other adopted city policies and plans.

I think we I think a lot of boxes are checked when you're strictly going by does it meet code and what is the criteria to approve any site plan throughout a review process.

Now, some of the things that were brought up are real, and I think there should be some discussions, but when you look at it like that, what is really preventing a decision based on compliance with the code and the criteria to approve a site plan and just consider that is what I was getting at in the roundabout fashion as well.

Yeah.

I think it's our sort of figure out where we're going.

Yeah.

Yeah, we did close public comments.

You can vote to reopen it or you can choose.

I'd like to move on if we can.

Um we can figure a way forward on this, and if there's uh suggestion from my colleagues on what course of action to take on these, um I would actually like to hear my colleagues motion with the uh the good faith portion.

Gee, thanks.

Do you have a thought?

Well, I mean, I think uh I we obviously I believe we need to say we need to acknowledge in some way the discussion that took place tonight and the importance of the issues raised and a path to resolving them.

Uh I'm not really comfortable with the issue, the idea of holding uh because that can become indefinite and this is a very important project that that uh lots of people in the city want to see move forward.

So I would hate to see us move that up.

So my inclination would be to include the good faith clause, even though it's not you know as strong as we might like to ensure that things will be taken care of.

But if we do that, at least is expression of the importance of continuing discussions with the owners of buildings that will be impacted by this.

That makes sense.

Correct.

Yeah.

Okay.

With the you know, I think we want it.

Well, no, we're good.

That's good.

Jake, did you have another?

Did you have anything else?

Um, uh I mean, personally, I like to think I'm a pretty good problem solver.

I I guess I'll throw this out there.

Um I don't see a reason why maybe we can't um get an update on this in three weeks uh and see where things are stuck and where they aren't if if they're open to that.

Um at least that gives some kind of check-in point on where we stand and what's left to be thought of.

Um that's maybe one option to consider.

That would be a motion to hold for three weeks.

Umly.

I I think it'd be uh an option to hold it to just hear back from all interested parties.

Um could possibly do that, and that would kind of force the issue to make sure that there's some discussion over the next three weeks, and everybody could come back if they wish and give comment.

Um we can see where we stand.

But I think at that point I I I think, you know, as a board, I think you have to evaluate you know what items are left and outstanding, what are more maybe private civil matters versus what is what is really before you for a site plan approval.

Um I don't know.

I I saw some nodding heads, I think.

Um I'm not sure if everybody's in agreement of that, but you know, in an interest as a I everybody approached and said they everybody's in favor of making downtown in the city a better place, right?

A growing vibrant community.

So in that spirit, I think we could all come together and maybe they could figure some of these issues out and report back to the board um in three weeks and we can go from there.

Um if we proceed with that, which would mean a a motion to hold for three weeks, come back to the next meeting and have a report, but we could proceed with a resub tonight.

Or no.

The two division.

I I would expect they're not gonna do the resub if they're not doing the project.

And normally you carry them together.

And I don't recall you guys making motions to hold.

I think you just hold.

Okay.

But if you want to make a motion, you can.

Well, what if the motion includes that we need updates on the concerns brought up tonight?

We wouldn't get to vote that.

I mean you can direct the applicant.

They still need your vote.

So you can simply direct the applicant to work with them and come back in three weeks and see where they're at.

Both I forgot your name, I'm sorry.

Davies, both Mr.

Davies, the church, uh the easement issues that Mr.

Pritchard brought up.

Um they may or may not have some resolution.

And remember, there's other agencies involved.

Again, that's outside of your purview, but at least uh Mr.

Bouchard can help get the ball rolling on on some of those issues to see what can and can't be resolved.

And if you want to do a motion, you're certainly free to do that.

But generally, I don't recall you doing uh motions when you're just holding something.

And it depends on whether there's agreement or if everybody agrees that we don't need a motion.

Yeah, consensus.

And you can still, even without a motion, direct the applicant to work with these uh people parties the uh opposing.

I was gonna say I was gonna say complainants, but it didn't sound common.

So work with the neighbors.

With the neighbors, interested neighbors.

Yeah.

Um with the neighbors to see what they can come up with and make it a better project for everybody.

So that's an action for the chair.

I don't have to make a motion.

Well, if I think I'm hearing consensus, but if uh my hearing is impaired, please uh set me straight on that matter.

But I believe my colleagues and I are in agreement that it would be a wise move, an appropriate move at this having heard what we heard tonight, hold this project, these two applications, uh direct the applicant to engage in some dialogue with the folks and organizations that have spoken here tonight and give us an update when we meet again uh in three weeks' time.

Have I summarized that accurately or if I missed key pieces?

Beautiful that's okay.

Thank you.

I I just think we want to clarify again.

It is we are not able to resolve personal property disputes.

That is not our purview, and we're not really good at it.

So we maybe can create a little space to enable some dialogue where it gets resolved among those who were most interested.

What I can also say is following a land use approval process, there's still a lot of time throughout you know, demolition applications, site work, construction permit application, building permit application.

Um a lot of times disputes are resolved throughout that process as well that are civil matters.

I was why is it all with that project for a project?

I'm pleased to tell you they actually do.

But I I do think some of these issues are I would like to say too um that I believe that it's just frustrating because obviously we've put a lot of work into this as a project, and I'm not sure that even in three weeks.

If if I could come back to you in three weeks and say we've met with them and they're perfectly satisfied and we've met with the church and accommodated them, that would be great.

I'm not sure what's going to transpire after tonight because some of these are issues that we weren't even aware of.

Um the stop gap to this, as Jake said, is that there's lenders and financiers that go through abstracts and document, you know, the chain of the title and some of these things that may be in there that have to be resolved in order to access funds to construct the project.

Um and I hope we can resolve them.

Most of them sounded easy.

Um, you know, in terms of coordinating the construction and maybe some legacy stuff that's been attached to the garage that might not be documented.

The opposite is that you know, private properties now start to posture themselves with lawyers, you know, in the middle of a meeting.

Um, and then you start trying to negotiate, you know, cost, right?

Who's gonna pay for the cost if it's a minor cost?

Um this is indifferent to the the action to approve a site plan.

It is the board's um obviously prerogative to choose what you'd like to do.

So um we will abide by whatever you choose to do tonight.

Sure.

I I don't think we're expecting um complete resolution in three weeks.

Um just an update.

Uh but if we hear that no conversations have gone on, that'll tell us one thing.

Right.

And if we hear there have been some fruitful discussions, but perhaps not closure, that tells us something else.

Um and that can be instructive to the board to go forward from there.

So all we ask is all the parties to um engage in some um honest, sincere, authentic discussion to try to work through some of these issues before we take our action.

Um the update in a few weeks would be would be helpful.

Okay.

Thank you all who spoke this evening on these two applications.

Very important.

Meanwhile, we have additional, and Jake, I think you are a problem solver, by the way.

But we have additional applications for this evening.

So can you bring this up?

And I appreciate everybody else who's still here for items remaining.

Next up is the Parkside Commons uh apartment project.

It's a major site plan review, MASPR 25-27 at multiple addresses along East Fat Street and Westmoreland.

This is in the MX2 zone district.

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Andrew Burns from Pastor Associates, representing the applicant SAA, EVI, and BFC.

And this application is proposing a total of 193 new apartments across two different building sites and buildings at the intersection of Westmoreland and East Fayette Street.

I believe requesting master plan review and a secret determination.

A little project background is the applicant actually currently owns and manages the property to the uh to the east and the west, but to the east.

Um and there's been ongoing conversations with the applicant, uh, the city and HCR, the funding source, that there's a more urgent need to kind of um relocate these tenants, and it's not by chance we're proposing 193 units.

There are currently 193 units in that western property, um, which we're hoping to relocate to these two new buildings.

Um once they're relocated, um, there is a phase two um kind of lacking scope, but it involves bringing down those buildings um over on that eastern portion.

Um city approvals are received.

Um basic schedule for this is the applicant's hoping to close in Q1 and Q2 or Q2 of 2026 with breaking ground shortly after.

Um if we can move into some of the sketches for building A, we'll give a brief overview of the buildings.

Um we'll call this building A, which is on the north uh west corner of uh East Fayette and Westmoreland.

We'll uh this is the bigger building, 143 units.

Um it's five stories over podium parking.

Um building materials are conceptual at this point, but we're proposing mostly brick and fiber cement panels.

Um within the podium parking for this, we are proposing 79 parking stalls with the access off of Westmoreland.

I believe you can see it in the lower our right elevation there.

Um typical lighting and landscaping required by by city zoning in the right-of-way, um street trees, uh and then building mounted lighting um to provide that pedestrian um uh access.

Uh for trash, we will have compactors within the with the podium parking garage itself, um, and those will be accessed uh through that overhead door there.

Uh building B, uh the smaller of the two buildings is uh 50 units, and that's gonna be across our kitty corner across the street.

Um that's three stories over podium parking, similar materials.

Um, in that podium parking, we will propose 29 um parking stalls, both of those um providing the point five parking stalls per unit requirement, um, similar lighting and landscaping to be proposed, uh trash compactor also um within the podium parking area.

Um to date we have had a pre-development meeting uh with the city regarding building A since that time um that meeting with the city and HR has occurred, and we've added this building B to get us to that 193 unit uh total count.

Um we've also received comment response letters for both buildings, having reviewed and take no issue with any uh of the comments.

We're happy to review those comments individually with the board.

Um we do understand that we'll need to return back to this board um for a final uh site plan review for buildings A and B as well as a subdivision for the combination of parcels.

Um also that this we will need to go to the uh the BZA for the number of stories on building A.

Uh, we're gonna add we're asking for an additional story at that building.

Um but I believe we need to complete this uh process before we can go ahead and start that one.

Um in conclusion, we feel that the project meets the spirit and intent of the MX2 zone district and is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan.

Um with that, happy to answer questions the board or the public may have.

Thank you.

Are there questions for the applicant?

So I understand this application is for uh the construction on lots A and B.

So I understand this application is for uh the construction on lots A and B and does not involve the renovation of the other buildings.

Uh with that said, I'm just curious uh in terms of you could just talk a little bit about that process because people are being moved around.

How does that interface with this project?

And I know that there are some number, I don't know, somewhere between 350 and 400 of subsidized uh units.

Is it how is that impacted by this this process?

Is that involved in these buildings at all?

Are those units going to be maintained?

Uh what's the process for that?

Yep, understood.

Can we go back to the overall aerial that shows the east and the west portion?

So for clarity, um, I believe the applicant owns the the the parcel to the east, or sorry, to the west uh and the east.

So there's currently a run or a rehab going on in the um in the west parcel right now.

We're specifically talking about 193 existing units in the east parcel.

So the plan would be to reconstruct or construct these new buildings, relocate these tenants, and once they've completely relocated, bring down those buildings based on their existing condition, and then a future phase two for that for that parcel, which is an unknown scope at this time.

There's a current push from HCR to get these tenants out into new modern housing options, um, then kind of look at this parcel next to the east.

And then the subsequent phase that you mentioned is not calendar specific, it's down the road some piece, right?

Correct.

We we haven't even begun scoping that yet.

So whether the applicant has not further questions for the applicant.

No, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in favor of this application?

If so, please come forward, provide your name, address, and comments.

It's getting easier and easier to scan the room.

Are there individuals who would like to speak in opposition to the application?

Please come forward.

Address is 731 James Street.

However, in addition, I'm a resident at 123 Uston AF, which is three blocks from where this is proposed.

So as far as the residents of Parkside Commons, they have heard nothing about any renovation of either the east side, the the west side, which is proposed to stay, and the east side, which is to be demolished.

There is no indication that there have been any discussions with HUD, which is closed right now, so I couldn't call them and ask them.

But there are 393 Section 8 uh project-based vouchers.

193 belong to the project to the to the east, and the other 200 to the west.

So I believe the nearest residents will be opposed to this project because they're living in dilapidated housing.

There is no public plan for renovation of anything.

These developers are coming in to make more money to do tax credits, which is not in the best interest of the city.

Uh and uh I will look further at the plan like everyone else.

I saw it Friday night.

And um, I did notice that there is gonna be a five-story unit.

As a person who lives in that neighborhood and has lived uh in the adjacent Salt Springs neighborhood on Niventh Street for several years.

I do not believe a five um story unit building fits into that neighborhood, and that part of it should be deeply considered.

I also think I'm not clear on how close these buildings will be to the sidewalk and the street.

So I'd like to have a good examination because it is a walkable neighborhood.

Um I just want to make sure that the the fronts of the building fit with the stores that formerly were in that neighborhood, if you're not changing it too much.

What is going to happen if they do demolish that other big piece of property which they'll own?

Because that will create new plans for the area.

So I know this is the beginning, thank goodness, of a long process, and at future times we will get the tenants' involvement.

But I also think of the financing for this.

If they get the tax credits to do this piece, what happened to the tax credits to renovate?

And also, since this owner has taken over Parkside Commons, they closed on a property that had no code violations.

Within three months, they had 78 code violations.

They currently are taking tenants to court.

They took 30 people to court and lost every case this month.

So all this good management capability to manage this property.

As you progress with the project.

Any questions?

Thank you.

Good.

Thanks.

I was told it might be 10.

It was 905.

Thank you.

We're not done yet.

They don't let us stay that late.

Thank you.

Other individuals who wish to speak in opposition to this application, please come forward.

Appears to be no one else desiring to speak.

Sir, um as I indicated to previous applicants, um, when comments are offered in that position, the applicant has an opportunity to address those comments.

So you're welcome to return to the podium if you want to speak to some of those issues.

Yeah, I can attempt to address a few of them.

Um as far as uh tenant outreach.

Um, I was advised by our applicant there have been tenant events, and they've said that they can provide proof of that.

Um, again, uh as the previous commenter uh mentioned, we do have some time here, you know, so we can we have some time to do additional public outreach if if that's a requirement, and I think they'd be open to that as far as proximity to the street.

We'll be doing everything to meet local zoning cover street uh streetscapes, you know, widened sidewalk providing fire access.

So uh we we think we're gonna bring a fresh clean look to this corner.

Um, but again, you're using the eye of the beholder for something like that.

So um we will be advancing those building elevations and materials um again uh through this process.

So okay, thank you.

We will close public comment.

Uh and consider seeker review.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yep.

Uh this is a type one action, so we're gonna do the full seeker review.

Um this is Zitong Wu, Director of Zongling 300 uh South State Street.

Uh the full environmental assessment form part two on page 420 uh 28 has been previewed with the suggestion from staff.

And the my and I am going to go through the part two to see if you agree with these suggestions.

And we also have the uh parsery determination drafted and um a secret resolution which could be used if Commissioner decide to act on secret tonight.

Amount 18 impacts indicated in the part two staff recommends you check no to impact on geological features as there are no unique geological features on the site.

No to impact on surface water as there is no wetlands or surface water bodies exist or adjacent to the property.

Uh stonewater management system will be installed on the project side to prevent stone water generated by the action.

Uh part of SWIP, the on-size stonewater runoff will be significantly decreased.

The action will be served by existing water infrastructure instead of withdrawing the water from any surface water.

No to impact on groundwater, as the action will not result in any new or additional use of the groundwater.

No to impact on flooding, as the action would not result in development on lens subject to flooding.

No to impact on air, as the action will not include a state-regulated air emission source and will not require federal or state air emission permits.

No to impact on plants and animals.

Even there are a threatened or endangered species, northern, long-air-eared bat, tri-colored bat, and the monarch butterfly on the project side.

The U.S.

Fish and Wildlife Service determined that the proposed action will not affect these species.

And also there is no national nature landmark on the site.

No to impact on agricultural resources as there is no kind of this kind of resources on the site.

No to impact on aesthetic resources, as the action is not located any near to any scenic or aesthetic resources.

No to impact on historic and archaeological archaeological resources.

The action will not occur on but will be substantially contiguous to an eligible property situated at 1918 East Fayette Street, named Joseph Lynch residence.

However, the action will not modify or eliminate the NR eligible property or introduce apartment building that will drastic significantly change the character of the area.

The action will not occur within or substantially contiguous to an area designated as the sensitive for archaeological sites.

No to impact on open space and recreation, as there's no designated open space or resources will be displayed by the action.

No to impact on critical environmental areas as there's uh not such resources on the site.

No to impact on transportation, part of the traffic impact report after the full build, the level of services at the two nearby major intersections, uh which is the East Fayette Street and West Car Street, East Fayette Street and Westmoreland Avenue, these two intersections will not be significantly impacted.

The projected uh traffic increase will not exceed the existing road network.

The action will not add 500 or more parking spaces.

Also, will not eliminate any public transit access, will not degrade uh degrade the existing pedestrian and bicycle recommendations, and will not require the creation of new traffic patterns, such as the roads that impact existing uh movement patterns of the people or goods.

No to impact on energy, as the action will not require a new or an upgrade to an existing substation, and action will take place in the already urbanized area with existing electricity infrastructure.

No to impact on noise, odor, and light, as the action will comply with the City of Syracuse noise ordinance to mitigate the noise impact, and will add new outdoor lightnings, uh lightings, but will comply with the Syracuse zoning ordinance, which prohibits the light lighting shining onto adjoining properties and will not result in having lighting creating the sky glow brighter than existing area conditions.

The action also will not result in generating odors or fumes during the operation.

No to impact on human health as there is no blasting proposed, and the project site does not have a history of contamination or spills, and all the solid waste generated will be managed by following all the state, federal or local laws and regulations.

No to consistency with community plans, as the action is consistent with the most part of the development standards of MX2 zone district.

However, the proposed structure is in violation of the zoning requirements about the maximum building story for multi-unit apartment building.

The applicant will submit a variance application to the Office of Zoning Administration, or actually it's to the Board of Zoning Appeal to seek relief from this zoning requirement.

If the variance application is denied, then the proposed structure will be required to fully comply with the zoning ordinance.

Also, the surrounding properties are occupied by low to high density residential housings, retail store, funeral homes, and community health center.

The proposed land use is not in sharp contrast to surrounding land use patterns.

No to consistency with community character as the action will not replace or eliminate existing facilities, structures that's historic importance to the community, will not create a demand for additional community services, will not interfere with the use or enjoyment of the public resources, and is designed to be consistent with the predominant architectural scales and character of the surrounding properties.

The action will also use the land to create more affordable housings.

Um the staff determined uh that the action is highly unlikely to have significant adverse impact on the above 17 aspects.

Does the board agree?

Yes, okay.

Then the staff recommend you check yes to the following impacts.

Impact on land.

This action does involve a construction and physical alteration of land.

Therefore, we recommend that board answer this question yes.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

The sub question A through G are asking about the depths to water tables, slope of the site, exposed barrocks, excavation and removal of natural materials, potential erosions, duration of the construction, and if the action is in a coastal erosion hazard area.

Based on the information provided in part one of the FEAF and the response letter, and all the supplementary materials, the action will not involve construction on land with shallow water table, steep slopes, shallow barrocks or within a coastal erosion hazard area.

There is no excavation, mining or dredging proposed in this action, and a stormwater management system has been designed and will be installed for both lots.

Therefore, I recommend you check no or small impact for the sub question A, B, C, D, F and G.

Does the board agree?

Yes.

Sub question E indicates that the project is anticipated to be completed within 12 months.

Uh no, sorry, 24 months.

The long-term construction triggers concern on noise impact on the nearby properties.

Per the response to action will comply with the city of Syracuse noise ordinance to mitigate the noise impact during the construction.

Therefore, I recommend you check no or small impact for the sub question uh E.

Does the board agree?

Yes, yes.

In conclusion, the commission as lead agency in this coordinated review under the state environmental quality review act has thoroughly reviewed all relevant materials, has taken a hard look and analyze all aspects of the action.

For all the reasons set forth above, a commission determines that the action will not have an significant adverse impact on the environment, and therefore an environmental impact statement need not to be prepared.

Accordingly, the commission issues a negative uh declaration to be filed, and notice of the negative declaration will be provided pursuant to all applicable laws and regulations.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It completes the seeker review for this application.

We have the major site plan review MASPR 2527 before us or possible action.

Um also I'm thinking about consistency with previous uh actions tonight where we held something in expectation or asking uh create some space for some dialogue, and it sounded as though from one of the speakers this evening, there hadn't been a lot of dialogue with residents.

Um I'd like to like the board to consider uh similar action here.

Seekers been completed, but holding this to create the space, not to direct what those conversations should be allowed, but to foster some dialogue um between the residents and the um applicant.

Seems to be consistent with what we've done so far, so I would agree, all means appropriate.

And directing the applicant as we did with the previous applicant to uh engage in some conversations for not scripting those, but uh creating the space whereby they can happen and reporting back.

Yeah.

Okay.

We better consult Council and before our next meeting.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

We just want to make sure that we're going to be able to do it with us.

DCA active.

Otherwise, otherwise we'd probably still hold.

Right.

Otherwise, we'd have to hold because you didn't have DZA.

Right.

So this site plan review process is what's known as a uh multi-phase uh process.

So this is kind of like the Scotch plan introduction, but we plan for you know worst-case scenario for a seeker evaluation.

Uh you're you're not wrong in saying that uh other details uh that would need major site plan review would be back before this board that that is correct in stating that um those would be kind of the final phases of the project as a whole.

Um but what I think the board's saying is they would like to see how BZA acts first, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, that's that's one of the main issues.

I I mean I'm less concerned about the reach out outreach to uh community with this project than the other two that we cussed because there's some significant differences, although that's important.

Uh so I don't want to minimize the importance of that because one of the things we keep hearing on projects is uh complaints about inadequate engagement of the neighborhood.

And that's a concern for us that that's that that's continuing to to happen.

This project, I think there is ample time for that to occur.

Uh but the the uh variance issue is important because if the BCA doesn't improve, that's gonna significantly impact what you're what you're doing.

And since you have to go there anyway, there would be value in having that happen uh before we actually act on this particular uh application.

And that would also give you some additional time to address the issue of community engagement.

That help?

Yeah.

So thank you.

So that's an action for the chair again.

Uh we don't need a motion.

I think we're good.

Thank you to the speakers.

Um we soldier on with uh another application.

There were several more.

Do are we are we under any hard time limits that we know of?

Yeah, like 10 o'clock, so I think we can get a few.

Oh, we can get there.

Yeah, yeah.

Before before 10.

Okay.

Um thinking it might be nine, right?

Uh yeah, trying to find what page we're on.

Or sixty-five.

Okay.

Uh next up is a special use permit.

This is SP 25-26 at 401 Pond Street and Steuben.

Uh this is in the MX2 zone district.

Uh the property owner is requesting permission to establish uh food and beverage retail land use type.

Sorry about that.

Good evening.

My name is uh Idris Ibraham.

I own T and B properties at 399 Village Boulevard North in Bondsville, New York.

I'm the property owner of 401 Pond.

Um I've been trying to fight for this permit for uh for I think a little over two years.

Uh been at this property for over 17 years, it's been in the family.

Uh everything that they've been asking me for, I I I provided um took the signs down.

There's one sign that we had to leave we leave up the one that says all American market on it.

Um because they count the money behind that window and the lot of money and everything is behind that window.

So if we were to take that off, people can see where where the money's going.

So we like to keep that covered.

But the other window, or the other one that we took all the signs down, like they wanted.

There were a series of recommendations, I think, from the Septead report from the police experts.

And if I'm remembering correctly, you agreed to all of those recommendations.

Yes, I took the.

But everything else we did.

Uh we just put up some new lights.

Um the RV, it's I've been trying to get that moved because it's not mine.

And the property next door is not mine.

Um that's someone else's.

Yeah, that's that's that's the guy that owns the building next door to me.

I've been trying to make a deal with him to try if we can do something with this parking lot, but he always tells me he doesn't speak English.

So I I tried everything with him.

It's not like not working.

Um I really don't know who to really get to get a hold of with this for this RV unless somebody unless they tow it.

Because it's not on my property, so I can't tow it.

And if I do tow it, I get in trouble.

I don't want them to come after me for it.

So I keep the property owner, doesn't really care to do anything with it.

So I don't know if it's his or who it belongs really belongs to.

Um like I said, I try working with him.

He keeps telling me he don't speak English.

Like I try to, I try cleaning up in that around that area, but there's so much that I can do.

Um I even called Sam Perry from Codes, had him come out because well, I seen him out there because they building caught on fire next door, and they threw all their garbage out outside.

Um they took pictures of it.

I went by there the other day.

I guess he he's about to, he wants to open back up the building and get the apartments going.

So he had somebody come and clean it all out so he can pass inspection.

Um for the parking.

I never had a problem because I always cleaned the parking.

I always shoveled it, always took care of it.

They want me to close it off and put uh like grass and it's like this pathway into the door.

But I think that's gonna cause a problem for the for the traffic going up and down the street.

Because the simple fact is on Wednesdays, you got the central bus for the senior home across the street where they take them shopping.

And then when you got the school buses and they drop the kids off, you got the traffic both ways and they stop.

Sometimes you get cars that go down the one-way street to Steven because they don't want to wait behind the buses.

So if I eliminate the parking, it's just gonna be a hassle, especially in the winter when they plow.

Because when the plow truck comes, I plow that.

I have a guy that comes and plows that when the plow truck city trucks come, they cover it.

And it's just gonna be so much snow where just traffic is gonna be an accident.

So I try to keep that area clean in the winter, especially for the kids because the parents usually park there once so the buses can come and pick them up.

You don't have to wait outside in the cold.

And then the side of Stubin, I don't know what happened with the city.

They started working on the sidewalk and then they stopped.

You can see how they stopped with the sidewalk.

I don't know why they stopped there.

I I don't have no idea.

I they were supposed to, they said when I seen them working on it, they said they're gonna do the whole thing, and then they just stopped right there.

I don't know why.

Um I built that that fence up because somebody's trying to steal the air conditioner unit.

So I had to build that wall, the fence around it, so I can close it off so that nobody won't cut the wires and steal it.

And then the signs that you see up, that's there's no windows there.

That's that's all concrete behind that.

When I took the build, when we took the building over years ago, that's how it was.

It was just the plywood over it, and it was concrete on the other side.

And that whole side of the wall, there's a walk-in cooler, a 10 14-foot walking cooler on that wall.

So there's you can't get in on this side of the building.

Like I try, uh every time the city had uh the Syracuse police asked me to do something, I work with them and asked me for the video, I give it to them.

One time my dad got shot at uh because somebody in the neighborhood went and told one of the dealers that all the stores, the corner stores operate, you know, working with the police.

My dad was like right in the door, and the bullet went like right flying by his head.

The police came, they seen the video and everything, and like thank God my dad just like stuck his head inside, or otherwise he would have got shot.

So it's like I don't mind working with the police, and I always work with them when they anytime something happened in that area.

I come and give them the video, whatever they want.

But at the same time, sometimes when my mom and dad was there, it's kind of kind of scary because you don't know what or who's gonna pay somebody to go in there and do something.

So it's like that's why we keep that's why I'd rather keep that sign up because of the money situation.

Now my mom's not there because she's got dementia, but now it's just like me and my sister and my brother in law that's usually there.

So I'm trying I'm trying as much as I can, whatever they ask me for, I'm I'm trying.

Questions for the applicant about this application.

Yeah, so I have a couple of questions, I guess, just related to the general uh application and what's going on in it.

First of all, uh, you have any application that you want to sell tobacco, but you tried to get a tobacco license in 2024 and you were denied because of proximity to other vendors for tobacco.

Uh but yet you put the cat the application through as if you had tobacco still in it.

There is tobacco in there.

I do got a tobacco license.

I understand, but tobacco is not permitted.

And you tried to get a tobacco license in 2024 and it was denied because of proximity to existing tobacco vendors.

Uh but yet you still put the application through with tobacco in it as one of the items you're gonna sell.

So that that that troubles me.

No, but there's a tobacco license, and the vendor is from Buffalo.

The vendor that we get the cigarettes from from wild bills.

There is a tobacco license, a legit tobacco license.

So they have a tobacco license.

So to be clear, there's two licenses.

There's a state license.

What the commissioner is referring to is uh a city of Syracuse local license that's needed in addition to having a state license.

No, that's why we put the application in.

We've been waiting, we haven't because we're going through this, we're going through this process.

But you were denied a license in in 2024.

You already applied for a local tobacco license and were denied because of the proximity issue.

When we first applied, it was 550 dollars, they cast the check.

And then we were waiting for the license, we didn't know what was going on.

And then I found out down the line that the a lot of things have changed, and that we should have got stuff in the mill, or we should have been watching the news for the new for everything that's been changing with the uh with the county in the city.

But you understand you cannot get a tobacco license.

You cannot sell tobacco out of this location.

Location.

You understand that?

Yeah, now I do.

Okay.

Um so yeah, my other concern is you know, we have a suggested uh condition here with respect to the SEPTED recommendations, which are very important for us.

It's very important for us to hear what the police have to say about these kinds of properties.

And so we follow their recommendations very closely.

Uh the suggested uh condition that we have is the applicant shall submit photographic evidence of the completed site improvements uh to the Office of Zoning Administration within 90 days of approval of the special uh use permit.

And my concern is that when I read through your responses to the SEPTED, I can't actually tell which ones you've actually agreed to.

Because on most of them you seem to waffle or have some degrees to some extent with the police recommendation.

And so far as I can tell, there's only two that I have a clear okay, you agree to that.

Uh all the other ones, there seems to be like a maybe or there's aspects about the SEPTED recommendation that you disagree with, and so you don't want to implement that.

And just one example, the DPW uh uh requ requires a bike rack, and you don't want to put a bike rack there because you're concerned that people may be stealing bikes.

Well, I mean, people who ride bikes are well aware of that problem everywhere that ride the bike.

It's not something that you can say, no, I don't want to put a bike rack there because I'm afraid that a bike might get stolen.

So I have all the those concerns about all the SepteD recommendations.

I never said I was I never said anything about not putting a bike rack.

Well, you have a comment here about that.

I I was and no, that was that was never really like mentioned of anything about a bite rack.

And I never and I said they can do the sidewalk and I'll as they can do, they can fix the sidewalk uh finish it because I don't know why they start why they stopped where they stopped with the sidewalk.

Because I put blacktop over the sidewalk.

Because at the time I thought I owned the the property was all mine until a couple months ago when I talked to these guys and they said this the property's not it's the city's property.

It's not my property.

Right.

So I understand.

But there's that that kind of qualification almost on every one of the issues.

So I guess perhaps I'll ask uh uh codes if are you comfortable with the responses to the SEPTED with that requirement in the conditions that all of the stipulations they agreed to should be met with photographic evidence within 90 days.

Because I I can't honestly I can't tell what they agreed to or not in many cases.

And I seem to have agreed to something less than what the police are recommending in many cases.

Right.

Um, you know, a lot of times I think our staff in general has urged the board to make sure applicants are meeting all of the septe recommendations, with maybe one or two exceptions where I think there were some compelling discussion or presentation to this board as to maybe why they shouldn't meet one or two of the items.

But um what I also want to point out public works comments, because I think I'll at least two or three of them uh kind of correlate with the subted regarding the site, and um you know, I think the expectation for public works is that for a commercial business like they're gonna take on these improvements.

Um unfortunately, I mean, he even said like they paved over it.

Um you know, I get it, not everybody realizes what is private property and public property, but yeah, the the property lines about two feet or less off the front of the building, I believe.

Surveys in here somewhere, I can look at it.

But um, yeah, public works is asking for site improvements um, you know, in front of the building as well.

Um quoting that you know that the paved parking area is not permissible and that it should be addressed as part of special before special use permit approval.

Um that sounds pretty similar to the subted recommendation as well.

Um I don't I I suppose you could condition it or ask for some substantial proof of them taking on those improvements.

Um be it a permit, uh I don't know.

Um, I mean it's it seems very complicated given the number of instances and issues in which we still have questions.

Right.

Um so I guess my inclination would be I would prefer to see all of those issues addressed fully uh before we act.

Well, I the stuff that I said that I did, I took pictures of it, I send it to Andre Johnson, and supposedly he emailed it to these guys.

Professor said staff is saying that we only received a photo of uh sign removal from Mr.

Johnson.

Right.

Again, so just an example under uh ballards or large planners, uh the septed calls for that, and we frequently enforce that because that's a very important thing to differentiate you know your your property from the right-of-way, et cetera.

Your response to that, we will look into getting these items.

However, as discussed at the meeting, there will there will give in they will give individuals a place to sit and hang out, which which we don't allow at our business or property.

So I don't know whether you agreed to that or not.

You're talking about the boulders?

Yes.

Well, there's uh because when the building on the corner caught when it collapsed, my sister and I talked to the mayor.

That's why he put the two boulders across the street and made that one way, made that stream to a one way.

If you go by there every day, you'll see people hanging out sitting on top of them boulders.

So in my if I was to put the two bowls, if I was to cover that in front of the business to put boulders, all they're gonna do is gonna have people sitting there hanging out and smoking and and and bothering the customers.

Right.

So again, to me, that's an example of where septed is recommending one thing which we enforce on other properties when they recommend that, because it's not just ballers, there's other options, uh, planners, et cetera, that people couldn't sit on, can't congregate around.

I don't have a problem with like I can't tell whether you agreed to be able to do that.

Well, then I'm I don't have a problem.

I was talking to a few people about making the part like making the walkway and then putting grass on the side and then trying to eliminate the parking like that.

What is that is I gonna eliminate it?

I can't tell you yes, and I can't tell you no.

Because it depends on the cost, it depends on the one as soon as the guy next door opens up how's how he's how they're gonna start doing it.

Okay, so I understand what you're saying.

And I'm just saying that I that seems to be your response to many of the things, which then leaves me in a position where I don't know uh what what you're gonna do relative to that and what kind of documentation is you required, you know, et cetera.

So well, if the city's recommending to do that, I don't have a problem with it.

And put it on this put it on the taxes or whatever, uh however it works.

Because when they finish when they started a sidewalk, they're supposed to finish it and never finished it.

They stop where you stop near the fire or so not I don't uh I'm not I don't represent DPW, but I'm gonna try to do my best to explain it and this type of business requires a special use permit.

And in order to get a special use permit, there are certain requirements and codes and expectations that need to be met in order to get that approval.

Part of that is a lot of the site improvements and enhancements that are listed by both the Sergio's police department of their subtead uh report, but also public works and the review of your application.

Um the expectation is that the owner and business owner take on those expenses, not the city, unfortunately.

I mean, if if the city had money to do site enhancements for everybody, uh I mean, we just don't.

I mean, I'm I'm not trying to say this isn't this for everybody, right?

Like the city doesn't have money to put curbs up and give you new sidewalks and to um you know rip up the asphalt and put grass in, and uh they just don't like part of getting approval to have a business there is that you meet these code requirements.

Um you're saying that I have to do the side do the sidewalk on Stubin.

Uh I'm not, but public works is yes.

But they started it and they stopped.

Um I mean, we just don't I I my whole thing is I don't know why they started it and then they just stopped where they stopped at because I can I can have guys with probably within two weeks to start the front and go get some lots and put it up front.

So I think we understand there's lots of issues that are open-ended here.

Uh my my struggle, and I wouldn't need to hear from our colleagues on the commission here, but if I have to vote tonight, I would vote to deny because I need a more robust response to the SEPTED and to the department uh DPW comments, uh, because I can't tell from the responses we have so far where you are in agreeing to or not agreeing or what course of the remote.

No, what I'm saying is I can have the front blocked off within two.

I understand that's that's many things in here that fall into that same category.

And if if we go through all of them, we'll be here for another hour uh to to get an answer from you about whether or not you're gonna do that or what or to what extent.

So if I have to vote tonight, I would vote to deny if you want to hold it and come back with more robust response to the SEPTED and to the DPT recommendations, then that would be one way to proceed.

But that's just me.

I we have my three colleagues.

But uh itemized list, if you will, with a simple uh column of agreed or not agreed to be more, bring more clarity to this.

Um which ones he's agreeing to and which ones he has issues with.

We understand you may not these wouldn't necessarily be your recommendations, and you have thoughts about why you wouldn't do some of these things, but setting that aside with these recommendations that came from DPW and from the police department, uh a simple list one by one and kind of uh yes or no after each of them will tell us what your position is and in the face of those recommendations.

That would be I think that's what you're getting at.

Yes, okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And maybe he can get the pictures right to the staff.

I think it's just I don't know who the other gentleman is.

We don't I don't recognize his name, but maybe you you give the picture to them, and then they can go through it and say you answer the question, like he said, or the question isn't answered yet.

We that's we just need to say yes or no.

Right.

So can I get more time?

Can I get more time?

I think that might be appropriate given the circumstances.

If we were to hold it with the stipulation that you come back with more worked out answers to the DBW recommendations and to the SEPTED recommendations, that are clear statements of what you agree to and what you don't agree to, then we can proceed.

Then we can proceed because right now your statements don't really give us that kind of certain limitation.

Yeah.

I think it's clear here that there are questions, but also important to note.

The DPW transportation review is very clear that the special permit should not be issued unless some of their concerns are addressed.

And see, I didn't get nothing from DPW.

Oh, I got was from the Syracuse Police Department.

I understand.

It's a part of your application.

So what I would ask or encourage you to do is reach out back to the staff tomorrow.

Have them walk you through the DPW comments which deal primarily with the front of the building and the asphalt and the sidewalk and entrance and egress, etc.

And so that you have a full understanding of what you will do or won't do as far as DPW is concerned.

And then from there, the SEPTED recommendations as well.

But take a second look and give us your feedback on those items as well.

All right, yeah, I'll definitely do that.

Okay.

So I'll definitely give them a call tomorrow.

Great.

And then I'll just, or if they just give me a copy of everything that I need, and then I can go.

Yeah, they'll walk you through it.

Yeah, it's it's been sent, but we'll we'll resend it and go through it again.

And be very clear about it.

All right.

Okay.

Yeah, because I mean, you know, again, when we read through these, I can't tell whether you agree or not, and there's almost all qualification.

So you just need to be specific about what you're willing to do.

If there's something you don't want to do, that's okay.

Then you need to make an argument for that and get it approved by the police or by DPW.

All right.

But because they're experts on this.

We're not experts on each of these issues.

We have to rely on their professional judgment.

I understand.

No, I definitely understand now.

I was just it wasn't brought up to me the way you guys are saying it.

So yeah, no, I definitely understand.

Yeah, I'll definitely take care of the issue though.

Definitely.

Uh so I can resolve this as soon as possible.

Okay, so we'll see you again.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks for hanging in tonight.

Yeah, and hopefully earlier in the agenda.

All right.

Right.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

And now our favorite part of the meeting, three mile limit cases.

Okay.

I've never seen so many three mile limit cases in my life.

This was real.

You know, yes.

So I know it's been a long night.

I'd like to just power through these.

Let's do it.

If you have to leave, we still have a quorum.

Yeah, you're good.

Yep.

So uh we just have three mile limits and other business.

First up is three mile limit, a town of DeWitt, three S 25-13.

We have uh the engineer city engineers approval.

Motion make a motion to approve 3S-25-13 as presented.

Second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, nay.

Abstentions approved.

Next.

Three mile limit town of Anadoga, three S-25-14.

We also have the city engineers approval.

Yep.

To a motion.

Make a motion to approve 3S-25-14 as presented.

Second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, say nay.

Any abstentions?

It's approved for Anadaga.

Next.

Another three mile limit, town of Anadaga 3S-25-15.

We have the city engineers' approval.

Is there a motion for action?

Make a motion to approve uh 3S-25-15 as presented.

Second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed, nay.

Abstentions.

3S2515 is approved.

Wait a minute.

Three three mile limits for the town of Anadoga.

Yeah, one more, one more time on the dog here.

That's the limit.

3S25-16, town of Anadaga.

We also have city engineers approval.

Is there a motion for action?

Motion approved 3S-25-16 as presented.

Discussion.

All in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed, please say nay.

Any abstentions?

That's approved for Anadaga.

On to town of Gettys, 3S-25-17.

We have the city engineers approval.

Is there a motion?

Make a motion to approve dash 3s-2517 as presented.

Second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, say nay.

Abstentions.

Get us uh through my limit is approved.

On to the town of DeWitt, 3S-25-18.

We have the city engineers approval.

Your motion?

Motion to approve 3S-25-18 as presented.

Second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Opposed, please say nay.

Abstentions.

Second three-mile limit case for DeWitt is approved.

Last one, town of Gaddis again, three-mile limit, three s two-five-19.

We have the city engineers approval.

Is there a motion?

Make a motion to uh approve 3s-25-19 as presented.

Second.

Thank you.

Discussion.

All in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed, please say nay.

Abstentions.

The second three-mile limit case for Gettys is approved.

Anything else for us to consider tonight?

We can adjourn.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

I'll second.

Discussion.

All in favor, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Nay.

Abstentions.

We're adjourned until November 10th.

November 10th.

Wow.

Made it through it all.

In a fashion.