I was hoping to have it all set up for Amber before you can.

So you know what I mean?

No, you knew I could do it.

There we go.

Okay, now this is what she said.

Um I can be here.

She's driving.

Yeah.

That makes sense, which is she sounds like something.

Okay, I'll think I like broke congestion in the morning.

Yeah.

So you don't want the text amendment up on the screen or anything?

Yeah, you don't need to.

Yeah, there's uh I don't think there's anything on there.

I mean, if they want to see I uh I gave them a uh I oops.

We'll just discuss it.

Um, and then is it start at figure one for the NR nomination?

Yeah, uh I would start with the photos.

Yeah, for the NR.

There's a really fun strong house, which was a prefab metal house.

Um prefab metal house that was there was it was supposed to be the answer to the patients.

I was in crisis.

After the war.

And it was not however there were um a whole bunch of notified these kit houses that were structured.

Oh steel.

They're not the it's uh made of steel.

Hillary.

Oh zooming in.

I'm gonna rush it.

No, but rushing, is what she means.

I just ordered shot, right?

I just want to just be able to say we need to think.

I mean, Nicole.

Oh yes, okay, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

You know, how are you?

Okay.

I didn't wear the black though.

We're just looking for it.

No.

What's happening?

Oh.

She's very happy about it.

Oh, did you dig it by the end?

Yeah.

My no, my brother in law did it.

Because she was digging it up.

That's a good spot for it.

Well, yeah.

I mean, it was just like this way, the only reason I know is that the knee replacement season is.

More than you see.

Yeah, that's what we get stuck doing.

We change our mind and keep going around and around.

Yeah, exactly.

Although it's never the moment.

If I text them in the late, I then get every green light.

Yeah, that was pretty sweet.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, she is she wasn't.

You're always rushing in.

You're always rushing in the door, and you're here for four.

I know, it's amazing.

I'm a magician today.

Going out on time.

Where where where's my invitation to the Arboretum?

Is she?

This is good morning.

This is the Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board meeting of October 30th.

Present at the meeting are Howard Trish.

Robert Seary.

Julia Marshall.

Jeff Romano.

Hilary Danyo.

Amber Dillon.

And Kate Outer.

Thank you.

May I have a motion to accept the minutes of October 9th?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

Any modifications to the minutes?

Okay.

All in favor of the minutes as submitted.

Aye.

The minutes are adapted.

Okay.

So the board will now conduct uh the public hearing on today's agenda.

First, the applicant or applicants representative will be invited to describe the proposed scope of work and to present any material or documentation regarding the proposed uh proposal to the board.

Next persons wishing to speak in favor of the proposal will be given the opportunity to address the board.

Then persons who wish to speak in opposition will be allowed to address the board.

Finally, the applicant or representative will be given the opportunity to make closing comments to the board.

Following public comment, the board may vote to approve, approve with conditions, or deny the application just heard.

The board may also decide to hold the decisions until the next public hearing.

If the hearing is closed, no additional information will be allowed into the record, except for information that the board may request.

The information will be available for public review with board staff.

Kate, would you now introduce the first application?

Absolutely.

This is um certificate of appropriateness CA-25-36.

It's for 120 Windsor Place.

Please introduce yourself and give your address.

They were literally in the middle of doing it when I submitted this.

And I'm sorry, did you have another uh alternative that you were considering as well?

So this um sorry, there's only three copies of each other.

Oh, no, that's the one with window slightly different design.

This is the light of the So I I haven't seen the colours in person.

This is all done off an online configurator, which is super helpful, but but um until I get out to the company and look at the the sample panels.

I'm not sure if a darker gray or a lighter gray is going to work best.

But effectively you can you can replace the upper panels here in a number of different designs with different types of window.

Um the only other thing to say is these are six foot high doors.

They're not the standard seven, which does limit the number of choices of design.

Um I wish they were seven.

Do you have a preference for I have a preference, I think, uh for the one that you've got in front of you with the window?

With with the windows?

Yes.

And that's certainly just looking at these online, most of the 1920s and 30s doors had windows.

I'm guessing because they didn't have electricity and they needed some light coming in.

So and it looks a little less barn door-ish than than this one, although um probably closer to what I was seeing online after I turned this in.

I honestly don't know if I have a preference between the dark or the light gray until I see them in person, but if uh I guess the question to Kate.

This is in a district, but it's a non-conforming, I mean, these aren't the original doors that were there.

Those are not the original.

Well, it's an original component of the house to the structure.

Yes, the doors themselves are replacement.

I mean the existing yeah, the doors that are being replaced are these are 1990s doors?

Yeah, right.

So those are not the original doors.

And we have no evidence of what the original doors.

Well, I was like, and I did actually note for that, and then while there is some material online, I think maybe on your site from the founding of that area, including the prospectus for people building houses, because the the garages are all round the back, you can't see them in any of the promotional pictures.

So that was the next comment I wanted to say.

This is not visible from the street at all.

Um is there anyone wishing to speak in opposition?

I don't see anyone.

Um, no, I I'm simply looking to see whether you're comfortable with the the choice of two colors that I'll make when I see the there's no one else here to speak.

If one thought on the colours, the light gray might absorb less sunlight.

I think it's on the south side.

It just might be more of like stable, less uh expansion and contraction.

Probably super minor.

That's great, great to know.

Thank you.

So that would be a slight preference for the lighter gray, yeah.

Yeah, I think it's it's growing on me too.

It will show less your and age better, actually, with a lighter color.

Meaning the lighter gray.

Okay.

Um I think then if if to summarize that my my preference then is the lighter gray with the window.

Okay.

And it's it's a variation on what you see here on the screen.

So just one.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Um I think I'll close the public comment period.

Is there any comments from the board?

I was just curious to ask about color and where you drew the colour from.

I don't know if it was from the roofs or you were just here year and a half ago or so.

You did the retaining walls out front.

Yeah, so those.

Which is a very good idea.

Yeah, I just wanted to hear I I read that.

I just wanted to hear confirmation from you.

So um and adding the lights, I would say is more period of the of the style of the house.

I'd say that's more a little more appropriate.

Um the windows on the top.

Um and the simpler uh design of the of the panels that you pass out.

The one in the packet, but the the simpler lines of the panels on the garage doors.

Um I would I read as much more um historically accurate or much what would have been there.

Um other comments.

Is there a second?

Any discussion?

Just would you like to specify?

Just the discussion to uh I'll make a motion to approve this application um and the selection of the light gray doors with the windows.

Color gray wood.

The gray wood doors go ahead.

What color is your front door?

Okay.

All in favor of the motion as presented.

Any uh opposition?

Any abstentions?

Motion passes.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Great job on everything you're doing over there.

It looks great to the roof.

So cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a cool place.

That's fantastic.

Yeah, it looks really great.

I appreciate it.

Except when he has to go read reroute.

Well, that's true.

I'm not a root.

That will be expensive.

Thank you for coming.

No, no, no.

And I said when you have to go change your roof, it will be expensive.

Snow does not have a chance to stick to that.

But I've taken care of over the years, a slate roof can last a hundred years.

Yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um so this next item.

There's no old business.

Oh, sorry, yes, there's no old business.

So new business.

Yeah.

Um, so I wanted to bring to the board's attention um uh legislation that was introduced uh at this week's um common council meeting.

Um it the legislation is to amend uh Article 6 of the zoning ordinance, which is the historic preservation ordinance.

Uh the proposed amendment language um uh would introduce a new subsection under the certificate of appropriateness, uh allowing owners of protected sites or properties that are in preservation districts to seek an exemption from going through the certificate of appropriateness process um if they're doing work on their their property.

Um the the exemption would be granted by common counsel, so they would so an owner would um petition common counsel for an exemption and then the common council would then determine whether or not to approve or deny the exemption, and in doing so is as written in this legislation would not be bound by any of the preservation standards or guidelines.

Um so it and if common council approves the the exemption certificate of appropriateness would not be required and the and the project could move forward.

Um so the implications of this are far reaching for the preservation uh program, obviously.

If approved, it would remove the regulatory function of the board um uh and within the preservation ordinance and really undermine the work of the LPB.

Uh it would most likely lead to our decertification also as a certified local government, which is the basis of our longstanding solid relationship with the state historic preservation office.

Um and I I would also like to note um just as as you all know, um, but there is if a uh property owner feels aggrieved by a LPB decision, they do have the opportunity to appeal to the uh planning commission.

So there is already an appeals process and an opportunity to uh to seek relief uh that is as hard baked into the into the ordinance as it is.

Um so procedurally what uh councillor Hogan who introduced the the legislation um has asked for what procedurally what this legislation is asking for right now is a text amendment to the zoning ordinance um which requires review by the county planning uh board as well as the the city planning commission.

uh to seek relief uh that is as hard baked into the into the ordinance as it is um so procedurally what uh councillor hogan who introduced the the legislation um has asked for what procedurally what this legislation is asking for right now is a text amendment to the zoning ordinance um which requires review by the county planning uh board as well as the the city planning commission so uh there are at this point uh that is where this this legislation is it's it has been referred to zoning at this the the legislation has been referred to zoning um and at some point there will be a time clock that starts uh uh that um uh the it's a 60 day time clock uh for uh the planning commission to respond uh with its recommendation regarding uh this proposed legislation or proposed text amendment uh so there will be opportunity along the way and certainly in front of the planning commission for public comment as well as staff comment um I would like to say that this proposed amendment language was unexpected um and there was no communication with city staff with zoning with preservation with the planning commission um before this was submitted so uh there is a process that is going through um and uh uh I did want to bring it to your attention um and if you have any questions uh I don't know if I can answer your any of your questions but um I'm certainly able to to hear them out certainly disappointing to hear that this is being brought forth it would basically negate any review um in my mind of historic fabric of this city um everyone on this board has gone through training um and has the knowledge of preservation and what we are trying to achieve or preserve in uh this city with this kind of legislation basically it negates the arm of the landmarks preservation board and there would be no reason to have a landmarks preservation board uh I would emphasize that you are the subject as experts uh again I'm sorry I didn't hear what you mean sorry you you are you are the landmark preservation board members you are the subject experts uh for the city and and then my question would be who's on the council that can make that decision um I'm not a the counselors would make the and and I question the counselor's training in preservation right that's why I brought that's why I asked that question it was more of a so you know it comes down to a political decision and not preservation in terms of um maintaining historic districts maintaining historic um buildings within our community and what makes the Syracuse community great makes right double advocate what if they say say oh you know you guys are right but we have any experts can we have guidelines to make a decision would that be okay there are already guidelines that are written in the regs in the city regs for historic preservation so would they I'm I'm just I entertaining I don't know I mean uh uh uh if the the language is I mean absolutely they could follow guidelines but it also states in the legislation that they're not bound by the guidelines the proposed legislation that they would not be they would not be they would not be bound by so they would just yeah yeah by the content of the of our zoning ordinance and there has been historically a process right of uh developers homeowners that come to present to the landmarks preservation board and if they want to appeal there's a process um an established process in place in place so uh basically saying that um the value of what we bring to this community right is not of any value right and I I'm gonna add that the idea that we are another layer of community input and community engagement and I think that counselor hogan's resolution or amendment is woefully myopic and considering some of the uh the timing of it all I'd like to know who was you know pushing for this sort of legislation beyond counselor hogan is there a second to his motion or at the moment it was being held it was being held um pending uh the proposes he proposed this and then it's immediately held until uh the planning commission can respond there's no other counselor on there that supported it's a there was none that none that I'm aware of uh not on the legisl uh letter introducing the legislation it was just obviously have to wait for for comment from zoning and uh and others but it's fairly clear uh if I may speak for the board that it's disappointing that this has been brought forward

There was no other counselor on there that supported it.

There was none that none that I'm aware of.

Uh not on the legislat uh letter introducing the legislation.

It was just obviously have to wait for for comment from zoning and uh and others, but it's fairly clear uh if I may speak for the board that it's disappointing that this has been brought forth.

Um I'm not really understanding the purpose other than to say that landmarks preservation board should not exist.

Because that's what it means.

So but there will be there's more to come and um as I say, an opportunity uh for uh comment not only from staff but from the public and from board members and others and other groups.

It's a 60 day review.

When does that commence?

Where it commenced.

When when the application is deemed complete.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not complete yet.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't realize you had it.

Uh yeah.

Okay.

Not complete yet.

Well, interestingly that it's done in an election year.

Say that.

Yeah.

Um so is there anything else especially the year of the 200th anniversary of OHA and the Uri Canal Meeting?

Of the village of the canal, we're about to enter a giant period of growth.

Jeff said what keeps Syracuse Syracuse is the uniquest of our historic neighborhoods, and to just explode the committee after decades of service.

So I think timing of it is disturbing.

Yeah.

Um and I would say um just uh I think to follow up on a little bit what was what um Bob was just saying that um the community has shown that it's historic fabric, it values its historic fabric.

If if it wasn't for the people who are coming out and um uh come out and and done the work of preservation, whether or not they call themselves preservationists, uh we would not have our amazing downtown, our amazing uh uh you know the the the quality of the built uh fabric here is amazing and and really worthy of of care and and preservation.

So anyway, okay.

Nothing more to nothing more from the zone.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Sorry, I didn't see you there.

Um we'll keep you posted.

Um now on to happier.

Um less less yeah, uh happier news.

Um we have a national register uh nomination before you that the state historic preservation office is seeking comment because we are a UCLG community.

Uh they do look uh for LPB comment.

This is um one of actually by my count, only two Lestron houses that remain within the city.

There are a couple more on the outskirts.

Um this one I would say is probably the the best preserved.

Um Lestron Company um was creating housing.

Hold on, let me look for my notes here.

So um this uh this is a prefabricated all-steel um home that was built by the Lestron uh company in well that's not me.

Um in um 1949, um it is the Westchester deluxe version of this um kit house uh that um uh that was built here on on Manor Drive.

The Lustron Company was uh uh came up with this plan to create these uh or to um build these houses that was supposed to address the housing crisis uh uh just after World War II.

I'm actually kind of excited, personally excited about this because uh back in the day um uh the a number of years ago when I was working for the Ohio Historic Preservation Office, we were involved with the National Register um nomination for the actual hangar that they used out at the airport to construct these to uh or to develop uh the Lestron kits.

Uh so I feel sort of as though I'm coming a bit full circle on this.

Um there uh so uh just some of the interesting things from the from the application.

Um they were it was done, they were produced in a way that allowed the delivery of the parts uh in exactly the way that it was supposed to be constructed.

So um, and it was just sort of an earlier, if you will, kind of a modular home, and we're talking a lot now about would prefabricated housing be one of the answers to our um housing crunch.

And I would say we've been doing this forever from the Sears Sears kit homes to these types of kit homes.

Um and so I think the ends I mean we won't be breaking new ground if we are if we're doing you know yet more looking at uh uh uh prefab houses here in Syracuse.

Um so yeah, I did look into it.

It looks as though um there are uh of the five that the National Register nomination notes um being in this area, um actually only two are in Syracuse and two are across from each other in the town of um I think it was in Salina, town of Salina, the Brooklyn and Roxford Road ones.

Yeah.

Um unfortunately the one in Geddes on uh Lathrop Road has been demolished.

That one is gone.

Um anyway.

They uh the I uh here's the Lestron house.

It looks like it's in fabulous condition.

Um there's some kind of cool features that you can use magnets to hang stuff on the walls.

Um and uh there was and people do actually collect these houses when they get sold sometimes, they get deconstructed and move to new places, but only about 2600, I believe of these houses were constructed.

Um and uh anyway, so uh this National Register nomination and they are uh uh seeking LPB comment.

These lab houses.

I believe so.

Yeah, I think based on based on the diagram I don't I don't believe they have the pieces and parts, which yeah, I found that to be a fantastic.

That's a wonderful, wonderful image.

Where you know that they laid out the pieces ready to assemble and it you know there are several different housing types that do that.

Like if you think of uh a timber frame, uh actual real log timber frame.

They cut it, they label it and ship it and then put it together, you know, like Lincoln logs.

So absolutely.

The same kind of principle.

Um aren't there other Lustron houses over in like Audubon Parkway and Fiat Boulevard, I thought there's one on Fayette Boulevard.

There is one there.

Yeah, that's one of the two.

Oh, okay.

That's one of the two.

There was one on Buckingham, but that one got deconstructed and used to pass this by when I would drive when I was on DeWitt Road.

So shortcut through Lemoyne area over to the other side.

That's great properties.

I mean, the interior photos show it as almost, I don't want to say pristine, but um in fantastic shape and everything is still there, it appears.

Is it so the owner is nominating it?

It I believe it must be the owner um or certainly the owner approved it.

The person who actually wrote the the uh nomination was at the state preservation office.

So um it look the photographs would indicate to me that perhaps they were looking to sell the.

I mean, it looks as though it's almost staged, right?

Um, this was submitted by um forget her name.

Yeah, uh Olivia is a nook.

Erin.

Aaron.

Aaron, yeah.

Yeah.

Zerneki at the at the state historic preservation office.

Yeah.

So I do actually have access to the um multiple properties nomination if people were interested in seeing that text that gives you the full scope of the and it this nomination does reference that multiple property nomination.

So it's really that they're just great houses.

So I don't know how they are to live in, but they do they are kind of uh they are kind of cool.

So we're just to comment to comment, yeah.

Full support.

Okay.

I wonder how long it took them to put it together.

That's a good question.

I don't know.

Yeah.

You know, um probably looking at it, probably not too long that they would be able to just sort of snap it together.

Um it would be interesting to understand how it actually goes together in terms of you're saying snap it together, but pieces and parts it how they actually how they actually go together because you know that was engineering.

And especially for them to write where it said termite proof, vermin proof.

You know, that how that was accomplished.

That actually maybe in the in the multiple properties nomination it'd be interesting to see.

Very interesting.

Yep.

So I will pass on uh uh I will um uh uh uh adjust the numbers in terms of the uh number of lustron houses that we still have here um there just how it was heated and cooled.

Because it's still well, I see you know that there's a thermostat.

Like hanging from the ceiling.

But in terms of the value of insulation at the time.

Right.

And since it is steel, you would think it would heat up.

Does it retain heat, you know, those are all sort of interesting questions because those are the things that we have to deal with the energy code now.

And and it may be one of the reasons why only 2600 of them were actually constructed.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Except if it had radiant heat.

Um okay, so I will I'll pass along the comment.

Um and I'll also uh share with you the multiple properties nomination and and I know that there is an answer to those questions in terms of heating and insulation and also how it was put together.

I'm just being curious.

Absolutely, because um it it's actually fairly relevant to today in terms of housing and that we have an issue of of housing and we need to develop ways to um construct uh housing, whether it be modular or not, but quickly um and efficiently in terms of not just time but energy.

So it's just curious how these were developed and if they are energy efficient or or lacking thereof.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Next on your agenda.

It's board training.

Speaking of training, yes.

Um so the the board is required to um get uh get training, and that's part of the CLG um uh uh uh mandate.

Um so I uh I just submitted uh a grant, uh CLG grant, uh, for training, and um I'm also working with uh so there are uh various oper oops various opportunities for training throughout the year, as you know um the the city is member of the uh National Alliance of Preservation Commissions and I'm sorry, Nash yeah, National Alliance of Preservation Commissions.

And um, so they do have, and I know uh you all have on occasion um dropped into those various webinars.

Um the uh uh but I do I'm aware that we do have newer board members on um as well, so uh this is a great opportunity to um uh to just get to do a refresh on the soup to nuts.

Um so there uh uh the I have asked for uh uh for funding for four uh online sessions of our choosing from the National Alliance of Preservation Commissions, and then I've also asked um Bob and the OHA to give us a uh sort of rundown on the history of of Syracuse.

So there I have asked for uh uh for funding for four uh online sessions of our choosing from the National Alliance of Preservation Commissions and then I've also asked um Bob and the OHA to give us a uh uh sort of rundown on the history of of Syracuse that will be part of the training just uh we all know but it's all wonderful to get a refresher and um but on the history of of of Syracuse its neighborhoods and so forth and we'll be refining what that looks like we do that in like a cool back room of the OHI we can do that there sure we can do it at a tavern of your choice whatever wherever you guys want to do it and then uh the other one I wanted to do was uh to I I would be offering uh a mini training on the the history of preservation here in the in the city and the preservation ordinance so giving you some both equality important for the background on on where where we where our program came from and where we're heading so um so and in light of the legislation that has been brought up the timing of that would be most important um we should vote consular hogan to attend and I would uh I would say that they are the the trainings will be open to staff and others who would like to join um the online training is available up to 30 people so I'm uh hoping to open that up to other CLG communities um community members who would like to attend as well as staff uh city staff or you know uh those that are interested uh the we don't have to decide today what what training you would like but um I am leaning towards well I think there's the the standards and guidelines for design review that's just the the basic we'll do we'll definitely do that I always like the the going back and get um doing the legal basics as well because we you find out what the basis of all of this what what gives communities the authority to do to to manage their historic resources um enforcement and violations is one that we've not had training on which I think would be interesting um but there's some other ones as well um of course board procedures uh jeff I know you mentioned something about that but resources of the recent past so that would be looking into mid-century um uh we only can have four but um well anyway we'll uh if you have the opportunity just to kind of look over the course offerings here and get back with me with what your top five would be and yeah okay you but you and Jeff gave me yours so um and uh the the other thing is then in the spring um there will be additional training and so I'm um trying not to make sure that there is an overlap with that when we when there's the statewide uh conference and I'm not sure where that's going to be held but uh that will be an opportunity for for additional training so anyway so that's that thank you very much that is it I will ask for a motion to adjourn a second second all in favor aye any uh opposition abstentions all right thanks motion passes we are adjourned all right thank you all because that's the end of the maybe it's appropriate to say thank you