Present at the meeting are Nicole Fragnito.

Kyle Gregory.

Julia Marshall.

Jeff Romano.

Hilario Donahue.

Amber Dylan.

And Kate Oweter.

Um may I have a motion to accept the minutes of October 30th, 2025.

Motion to accept the minutes.

I'll second.

Any modifications to the minutes?

All in favor of the minutes is submitted.

Any opposition?

Any extensions?

Minutes are adopted.

Okay.

The board will now conduct the public hearing on today's agenda.

First, the applicant or the applicant's representative will be invited to describe the proposed scope of work and to present any material or documentation regarding the proposal to the board.

Next persons wishing to speak in favor of the proposal will be given the opportunity to address the board.

Then persons who wish to speak in opposition will be allowed to address the board.

Finally, the applicant or representative will be given the opportunity to make closing comments to the board.

Following public comment, the board may vote to approve, approve with conditions, or deny the application just heard.

The board may also decide to hold its decision until the next public hearing.

If the hearing is closed, no additional information will be allowed into the record except for information that the board may request.

And Howard Tresher here.

Yes.

Yeah, thank you.

Um good morning, everyone.

Um so the first public hearing this morning is CA-25-38.

It's a certificate of appropriateness for 931 Comstock Az.

This is for installation of storm windows as well as awnings in this home in the Berkeley Park Preservation District, and I believe Mr.

Daisy, the owner is here to present.

Did she send it?

She sent a mock-up of it exactly what's going on.

Oh I think there's there's a drawing.

Yes, yeah, we have that.

I think I'll go back up.

Yep.

Right there.

There it is.

Yep.

That's our goal.

Could you introduce your bottom days?

And your address.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Um we've already had a painted.

These are the original colors of the house, by the way.

We researched this.

So this this house used to vote for the first poll by William Power.

Sorry.

My voice usually carries enough.

So that's what we're trying to do with it.

And um Debbie's done her research and this is pretty much what it's gonna look like.

The railing on the front there is not there.

They took it off, and we're putting it back up.

We'll be before you probably before spring.

Uh about that.

Um the awnings have a sample of it right here.

Um roll up.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Two front and you can see two side windows done with the aw.

Uh plus we're having storms.

The old storms were they were originals, but they took a lot of them off and put in the old aluminum, you know, triple tracks that were just gross.

And broken and not working and stuck and all that stuff.

So we've actually taken those off.

Which was a lot of fun.

And we're having them rebuilt.

Um there's um Andrew down in the valley.

I don't know if you know him.

Incredible craftsman.

And also Don't feed him coffee.

It gets on things right away.

He's really on top of it.

And so they're gonna be painted a dark green, um, which is appropriate to the time.

And on the inside, some of their wood, and they're really neat because you can you can you have uh the bottom panel, you can replace that and put screens in during the summer.

And the screens are uh like a uh a copper brass blend that are really really nice looking.

So that's with those and and the awnings, and um the house front.

I'm still I've got some of it finished, but the weather is stopping me.

So as soon as the weather changes, I'll be back on the front of it.

But the rest of the house is painted, and uh you know that's kind of it.

Do you have any questions?

No.

Um else here to speak in favor.

Anyone wishing to speak in opposition?

I guess we'll close uh public comment discussion.

I guess I want to just make note that the colors that were selected for the exterior were approved by this board in 2007, so everybody understands that just quick clarification comment.

Um you're showing shutters to be replaced on the on the building.

Are those wood shutters?

Wood shutters, they're original.

Okay.

Uh we have them taken off.

We've had some of them stripped.

I'm stripping the rest.

Um I think we had some done at Tobin's.

Okay, and we may have them do the rest of them.

I'm doing some over the winter, uh, and they're all going back up.

Okay, I I've just based on the picture they weren't on there, so I was just clarifying.

And then my second question is the balustrade excuse me, going across the front porch roof.

You're gonna be recreating that.

Do you have any historic photos of that?

Or and then what is the material of that rail?

I don't have it with me.

We have a the reason we knew it was there was there's one photograph of the house that we found on record uh that had the balustrade.

So we're that's how we know it's there that or was there.

But you're coming back for approval on that some other time.

Right.

Oh okay.

So this is just windows.

Correct.

Okay.

Windows and awning.

Storm window, storm windows.

Storm windows and awning fabric.

Any other questions?

Okay, may I have a motion on this application?

Good.

I'll make a motion to accept as submitted.

Okay.

Any more discussion?

All in favor of the motion?

Aye.

Any opposition?

Any abstentions?

Motion has passed.

Great, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Great project.

Yeah.

Looks great.

We appreciate you.

Okay.

Oh, my turn.

Right?

Yes.

Yes, sorry.

Um so the the uh set second public hearing is uh for CA-25-39.

This is a certificate of appropriateness for 118 Windsor Place.

Uh installation of new garage doors.

Uh Windsor seems to be having a lot of garage doors.

Um needing to be installed.

Uh it is in the Berkeley Park Preservation District.

And Mr.

Swingy is here to introduce the project.

Welcome.

If you can state your name and address, please.

Good morning.

My name is Dennis Swainey, 118 Windsor Place in the Berkeley Park District.

Uh the project is basically to replace some um garage doors.

Uh the one on the left is barely functional.

Uh the only uh it hadn't been opened in years, and we uh when I pulled a car that had also not been driven in years out of it, I realized that uh not only was there rod at the bottom, as you can see, but um the the track was uh separating from its um the rafters, so uh it's essentially not functional.

And the one on the right is getting increasingly difficult to open too.

So clearly they need to be replaced.

And uh we uh contacted Semke garage doors, and they gave us uh an estimate.

So um they have some snazzy um online uh design feature that we use to try to replicate uh as near as possible the originals, but um uh those examples right there are not very good, but I I think I provided some others that are a little closer.

Uh the colors aren't true, by the way.

That's option one.

I provided, I think, half a dozen or so.

And I'm actually asking for a little guidance about what you guys think would be uh most appropriate in terms of design.

Just different uh variations.

Um they have different names indicated in there, whatever their software is.

We kind of like that option there, but um that one only uh allowed a single uh the one above it, I think, only allowed a single row of uh windows.

There we go.

Um so the one below it is pretty close.

Uh yeah, keep going.

Uh that's called the ribbed long option, and in fact, the original doors you can't really make it out, but the in those panels they are ribbed as well.

So maybe this is our our closest option.

There are a lot, there are a lot of different examples.

Right.

But that's a lot of television.

And and the one at the bottom, by the way, just shows a couple of paint panels.

Um originally the one on the left is almond, the one on the right is called Sahara Tan.

I originally thought almond would be closer, but I don't know, it's a kind of a six and one half a dozen of the other.

I think the other the one on the right seems a little closer to my eye, but uh your call.

Okay, is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor?

Anyone in opposition?

Um I will close the public comment.

Uh discussion from the board.

Did we scroll to the one that you said that you like number 17?

You got right there.

Yeah, that's close.

Uh or the one below it, I would say uh either option would work for us.

I mean any of them really, but I guess my comment would be um in terms of the configuration.

I like the fact that it's a double row of glazing, but the glazing you want it to be more vertical, and if that's possible from the company that's fabricating these doors.

Yeah, uh I agree.

Uh this is what we were presented with, so I'm not sure that that's an option, but I can certainly inquire.

Because I think that would help in terms of the aesthetic the uh glazing was taller and maybe less frame, because right now the the frame around them is making them seem squat.

Um and in terms of the the configuration of the bottom panels, I would agree that that is the best replication as well as uh what appears to be you know a uh grouped panel.

I don't know.

My understanding is that the uh the people, the SEMC people who install these essentially just order this from uh a manufacturer, and so I really don't know how much latitude we have on the design.

So um I mean I certainly agree that I would like them to be a little closer to the original windows, but uh we may be constrained.

Have you had anyone look at these to repair them?

Uh they're a hundred years old, so uh uh no is a short answer.

Okay.

Uh I don't know if you can well you can't see it on this, but um the there's rot, uh they're wooden currently.

Uh there's rot on the left, and there's some rot developing on the right.

Yeah, I see the the the left hand door, the bottom rail is rotten.

Right.

And then you have a little bit of rot on the right pan on the right hand door.

Yeah, um, I have these exact doors on on my garage on a 1927 house.

So um we've replaced the bottom effectively.

And we're able to keep, I mean, it's the exact same door.

It's all the beatboard.

Um we're able to keep that all together with uh um a repair.

Um the tracks though are are coming apart as well.

So I my I mean also they're wood and um heavy.

And my wife is a little more diminutive.

Do you have do you have uh overhead openers on them?

Yeah.

Okay.

So I from my perspective.

These doors are salvageable to me.

Um nuance I would also do is put a gutter on the front of your garage roof to stop that bless you from splashing back because that's what's causing that rot.

Um I would, you know, there's multiple overhead garage door businesses that are out there that will look at that and they can rebalance, rehang, put in new, um, and you'd be able to keep all those doors in situ.

Well, from my perspective, uh, you know, these are heavy.

Uh I'm I would prefer to get them replaced with something light.

I mean, you know, I'm no expert, but uh I think that the options that we presented are reasonably close to the original design.

So I would prefer to go ahead instead of replacing or uh repairing.

That's true.

Yes, but the other option is to perhaps come in after you seem like you were concerned about the color.

Yeah.

Did they come in after where you can paint it for the uh no?

These are you know, there are of they gave us a few color options, but natural no.

I mean, we could always repaint them over the I mean that's yeah, if I was unhappy with the way they looked, that's we've got some extra paint left over from when we last painted the garage, so there are other windows around the garage, like if you want just panels, no lights.

Is there another source of the case?

There's some windows at the back of the garage on the right hand side.

Yeah, I mean it's a pretty distinctive feature to have the the double row of blazing, and I appreciate that that perhaps you can have that.

The question I would you know put to you is if the manufacturer can provide a taller type window in the configuration that you've shown.

Um have you considered wood door uh replacements?

No, uh mainly because I'm concerned about the weight and and I my wife has trouble opening these doors as it is, and we're not really interested in getting garage door openers.

Uh so steel steel cut sheet one and three eighths interior exterior steel section, half inch and slated glass page in the further comment on the board.

Or if you like, you can I mean if you can also hold hold it if there's um well the advocate not considering what doors to find out about the orientation of the I guess what's your time frame because the the other option is for us to hold it open and you um with the manufacturer if in fact you can um well my my hope was to get the the doors on before snow, but uh that's becoming questionable.

I mean we like to get it finished as soon as possible.

So fortunately except uh for the comments I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Yeah, actually, yeah, and could could you clarify what you are what you are doing?

Motion and public comment is that what we're motioning to a motion um to accept or deny the application or deny the motion to accept to accept the the application does one of the options.

You need to be specific.

Oh, my apologies.

What figure is this?

There's no number on it.

So just describe it.

The three-pane carriage house windows with the ribbed long option, the bead board.

That would be the one that I would say is the most historically accurate.

Yeah.

All in favor.

Aye.

Somebody any opposition?

Aye.

Any abstentions?

Okay.

Okay.

Sorry.

Hold on just a second.

Okay.

All right.

Very good.

Next application.

Uh next public hearing is uh CA-25-40.

Um it is a certificate of appropriateness for 128 East Genesee Street.

Uh this is a storefront rehabilitation and window replacement as well as well as color change for this property in the Hanover Square Preservation District.

Good morning.

My name's Joe Perino with In Architects, and um we're right here at 239 Eastwater Street.

Um I'm here representing Stephanie Sampreer.

She's the owner of the building and um the owner of the uh the hair salon.

Um and and she um is the owner and also has the business there.

So she's here for any questions.

Um so the the project is the renovation of the entire building.

The first floor, um we're gonna uh renovate the the the salon to update it, put in some new spa rooms.

Um the upstairs is going to be there's three floors.

We're gonna renovate them into single uh one um single uh apartments per floor.

So we're gonna add a stair that goes all the way up, a rated stair that goes all the way up.

So here's some of the the plans.

Um can you go all the way to this one that I sent you yesterday?

That uh that should be at the bottom.

Yeah, yeah.

Sorry about that.

Yeah, there's a lot of drawings here because we did um we already went through a state variance uh because of um the state required us to have the egress windows in the back.

Come up to the plan.

Yep, keep going.

Keep going up.

Um sorry, I keep going up to the floor plan.

But um, we already uh we we went through um intake meetings at the city uh for permitting.

Um we had to go to get a variance because the upstairs windows, um there is no way to go out through the back because it's landlocked.

Um so we have one, it's only one exit out the front, and we had to make sure that the state was okay with us having the egress windows on the on the living room side and not on the bedroom side, which is in the back.

We didn't want to put the bedrooms facing um the the um uh the square.

So here's the basement plan and the first floor plan.

Uh the the big change is um we are gonna put in a stair that goes down to the basement.

The basement is unoccupied, but there's only this little teeny stair to get out.

So if anything, anybody and this was something that the state made us do as well uh as part of that variance was a travel distance.

So we had to put a new stair in.

We're putting in a new uh vestibule uh for energy efficiency because every time she opens the door, she has people in her chair and it gets fairly cold.

So we have uh a new vestibule, and that was one of the reasons why the travel distance um increased.

So um, so we're adding that vestibule and we're adding some rooms in the back.

Uh we're still keeping the stair in the back to the basement, and we have another stair to the basement.

Um so if you go upstairs, uh one next uh so there's three floors, they're the same.

Um basically it's a much smaller footprint in the front of the of the building.

You could see the roof and sky existing skylights are to remain.

Um if you look at the second floor, which is the upper floor plan, and then the the the third floor there is just the same, it's just gonna be a one-bedroom apartment, uh, one bedroom in the back, um, a rated stair to get down, which has taken up most of our floor space to just to get out of the building.

So those are the apartments.

Now, if you scroll down, um here's the existing, or these are the historic photographs.

Um the building was built in 1835, um, and you could see it uh in the left hand corner.

Yep, there it is.

But then we blew it up just to the right there.

You can see it.

It and it's it's the same size and the same layout as the building to the left of it, which is uh uh the sister building that was just redone.

Um, and pretty much the same thing that we're doing now, a bet uh single one bedroom apartments upstairs.

I know you guys approved it.

So um, so then after if you keep scrolling, uh now this is uh uh uh after the On Daga uh savings bank was built.

You can see that the the building is still the same size.

Um, but now they've painted it white.

Um you could see at the windows are six over six divided lights.

Um so now if you scroll down, um as we come into the yeah, it's still now they painted it black, and it's it's still there, uh, but it's um and it's still the same size, but it's painted black again, six over six windows.

If you scroll to the right, this is where it gets they increase.

We don't know what happened, but they wanted that third floor to be taller for some reason.

I don't know if they put something in there, we don't know why.

But now it's taller than its neighbor, but again, this still had those six over six windows.

Um, and it was now painted a different color.

So you know, we don't I wish these were color photographs, we could see what it was, but it you could definitely tell that there's been some changes in in the colors.

Um so if you go to the next, so this is what we would like to do.

Um we'd like to paint it black, and I know it's a little brownish on there, but we'd like to paint this black with uh a matte black and a gloss black.

Um Steph Stephanie um really if you scroll down, she really doesn't even want any of that gold on the um on the sills and the heads that keep going down.

There's another one, there's another option here, which is all black, and that's what she would like to do.

This this detail here, um, this elevation here.

She'd um so right now to the left is uh an eggplant storefront and a basically a white light gray on the left, and the windows that they put in there were six over six, they're all aluminum clad wood windows.

So we're kind of we want to match that, except we want to have them black.

We'd like to have them black.

Um and the storefront is all right now.

You saw that picture, it's a stained storefront, uh stained wood storefront, which really we all know is not historical at all.

And we'd like to bring it back to a wood storefront, which is painted and insulated glass, vestibule.

Um the to the left of the main door is that door that is existing, it swings out into the right-of-way, it's been approved.

Um the new the new door is gonna be um the it to match what we have there now, but but in a wood painted wood uh uh door and storefront.

Um and as you saw in the in the um in the floor plan, you could see that we have a vestibule just inside that door, and then it turns to the right.

So the sign we're not exactly sure what exactly that's gonna say, but we want to have that sign band.

We'd like to keep it black, but it but uh but a uh gloss black.

So as you could see in there, there's a slight difference.

We want to keep that band, but we don't want to call too much attention to it.

Um and again, we want to you know keep the the storefront as historic as we can.

Um but we and we want to get rid of the stained stained uh stained wood.

Um so you know, Stephanie we kept it trying to add um gold to it.

I mean, if you scroll up, we we even have our cornice is that gold.

No, you just um you just went by it, but uh right there, yeah.

We had and those little dots.

She would like to have those shiny um gloss black, and the little uh ornaments in the in the middle, we should like to have those black too.

I just talked to her, she said, I really don't want those, but um so I mean this building has been painted over and over and over again.

Um so you know it's really a a color, it's a taste of what we well and also what goes with the neighborhood.

Um as you can see by both sides, they are uh they're they're different colors, they're they're lighter colors.

So what would go there?

I don't know, more white, more lighter colors.

So we we re we want it she really w loves this uh on the right here.

This was the all black facade, and then this um the one on the left.

This is the gold that we were trying to replicate in our photos, but we never really got there.

So do you want to say something?

Or so um so this this is this is what we'd like to do.

Um the we the windows are gonna be a wood, uh aluminum clad wood marvin window that is a historic um uh sight lines, uh just like the one next door.

So we're hoping you would uh accept uh our proposal.

Thank you.

No.

Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of the project?

Anyone uh who's wishing to speak in opposition to the project?

If not, I will close the public comment period and open it to the board for discussion.

Uh great looks like a great project.

Um I just had a couple questions uh about storefront design.

We have some really great imagery of the historic storefront.

Any thought given to that to try and recreate that curve and um uh just that general feel and just shift those center doors over to the left.

And uh do you do you need the double doors?

I got a hot a high nod for you.

She she would like to keep the double doors because we're always bringing things in there, but um so if you look at the the historic photos, um the building does not have a entrance to the upstairs.

So these two buildings were built with one stair, which was on the right side of the other of the other building on the left.

That went up to the second floor, and then from there they had separate stairs going up.

So right now um this was they were owned by the same per uh person at one time.

Um but now they're separate.

We had to have a property line between there.

There's still a door up on the second floor that goes from there that we that has been filled in on the side of the previous uh um uh project.

We're gonna do the same.

We're gonna pull that out, we're gonna fill that masonry back up to establish that uh that uh lane.

So so the left side of the building has to be that stair.

So I can't put her door there unless we were to push that way back, and so you can walk in and enter in like that.

So that that was that was the issue why we couldn't do exactly what we what we what we see what we see in the in the building or uh in the historic photographs.

Okay, I just looking at uh A304, it's a pretty clear sight line in the lower right hand corner uh image.

And uh it's a very strong feature.

Um you gotta go down, scroll down.

In that feature, the the door is set back from the street line.

Yeah, it almost looks right there, yeah.

Uh all the way on the right.

Lower right hand corner.

Yeah, there you are right there.

And um back to your plan.

So it's just a question there, and then my other comment is on the new storefront.

To me, it just it it seems chunky for the building for like a federal revival building.

It seems uh seems very heavy um as in design, and that I I guess that I'll leave it at that.

That's just how um I see it, and then just looking at the historic photographs how how minimal and how expansive the glass was or glass.

Yeah, that um the new design is fine.

It just seems heavy to me compared to kind of the transparency that's always been there and wanting to you know showcase product and uh and have a presence on a street.

Uh but um you know that's what you need.

That's just my comment.

So is the gloss?

I mentioned the flat and gloss both on the facades, the gloss just for the sign, or are there other elements?

So um she would like to take all of that gold and wherever the the gold color was to be the glossy I see you'd have a contrast, but it wouldn't be as significant, it would be the ripple okay.

You want to still keep the gold on the storefront on the first floor?

Well by name.

No, no, no, the stuff on you know the gold on the bottom there.

No, she doesn't.

When I looked at the two, I really I really love that matte black with the uh more black front.

Is that what's the sign pan uh panel made out of?

Okay, so the gloss is going on wood, but yeah, you're also presenting that perhaps they had in the sill are those stone?

Yes, and painting.

No, I mean it's not the back.

This was that is a paintable or so.

They hadn't the sill have been painted?

And they're they're painted right now, just to clarify, yeah.

Just a maintenance thing.

Stone stone, yeah.

Particularly gloss paint, because it doesn't breathe at all.

Um Stephanie had a vision when she came to us and and it was gonna be dark.

Um some of the ones that we looked at were really, really are blues, but they contrasted with the purple next to it.

Um just didn't look right as well.

So uh she was really we were trying to talk her into the blues, but uh uh it didn't go is she got to do that black stands out in that one picture I I you know I wish I had it was a color picture, but it it is a dark, dark bill.

Um I don't know if it was black, but it was definitely dark.

Um so we thought it's it's been painted multiple times.

Um not to allow that color um is as far as a original windows left in the building?

No, no, no, okay.

Um and then just a quick question.

You're only you're installing single hung?

Single hung windows or what it being installed?

We were thinking single hung, yeah.

I mean we could do a double hung um the you know we we this uh the window that's available from is in both yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it just your drawings just indicate the lower sash operation.

Yeah, yeah, we that's just the question.

You know, it's a little bit of a that now for you to go with single hung.

Um so that that to give you the same profile.

Yeah, the the I don't have it with me.

Um we did submit um the yes you did.

We did have a window.

Yeah, you have a window survey.

Yeah, and we did a window survey.

Yeah, I see the survey.

Here's the cut sheet.

I'm sorry that was added.

Sometimes uh single hung have a little have no reveal.

It's a very minimal reveal from the upper sash to lower sash.

That's those shadow lines are important on uh on this facade, but it looks like it's a full list.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um motion to accept this project as submitted.

I'll make a second on that.

Okay.

Any discussion on the motion?

Yeah.

All in favor.

Any uh opposed proposition?

Any abstentions?

Motion passes.

Thank you.

Great project.

Thank you very much.

Jamie here?

He was.

Chris, do you know where Jamie went?

Okay.

Or you're not on view.

We could have our other applicant go.

We're doing well, yeah, whatever.

I can do it.

Sure.

Break for a minute.

The intermission.

The curtain.

Text them.

Well, I did text them this morning.

What would be helpful to start with, you guys?

The L uhlocks elevations.

There he is.

And before we start, just this is review and comment, but I'd like to mention that this is a project in Holmes King Caucus office.

And I have worked on the project.

So full disclosure.

But we are just reviewing home.

That's correct.

And this is uh the uh this is under new business.

Um it is a major site plan review for 200 East Genesee Street, um, which is the former City Hall Commons.

Um it is a conversion uh from office use to mixed use residential, the properties on the National Register um as well as being on the uh in the Hanover Square Preservation District.

Probably go back to plans elevations if you could start with the Do you want to start with the elevations or the I'd probably start with one first floor.

Okay, so first I go back to the go back to the before.

Yep.

Here we go.

And one more.

There you go.

Floor one.

Morning everybody, I'm Jamie Williams.

I'm an associate partner with Homeskin Colquist Architects.

Getting my back are Luke Esposito and Chris Leburge, uh the developers handover development for the project.

Uh this is the former SANK building built in the mid-1800s four-story building, three stories were subsequently added uh to bring it up to seven, and it has been City Hall Commons for the last few decades, as you all know.

Uh handover development is in the process of purchasing the building from the city of Syracuse with the intent to create a mixed-use development with uh first floor commercial uh and um a mix of market rate and affordable on floors two through seven.

Uh this is uh a uh preliminary or conceptual drawing of the first floor plan.

If you could go back to that, and this is really a placeholder as to what it could be.

This particular layout shows a restaurant as the anchor tenant with several other secondary tenants.

Um the layout of the entry um holds pretty much to what is there now uh and the atrium at the top of the sheet uh which was built in the eighties is going to be retained and will be part of that anchor tenant or other anchor tenant or other tenants.

If you could slide down.

Again, these are conceptual.

And two through seven remain somewhat similar.

Someone's going to be living in my former office.

And what do you know about this project?

On the first floor, the historic stair was changed at some point.

So the first floor run is quite different from the two through seven.

Correct.

Modifying the 70s or the 80s.

Yeah, everything was extensively renovated in the 1980s when the uh when the eight atrium was added.

Crawford and Stearns was the preservation planner at that time.

Right.

If we could go to the elevations.

And the intention for the exterior is to retain it in almost exact, almost exactly as what is there now.

We there is there is an intention, which you'll see on the renderings.

If you look at the atrium, you can see the uh the center of the atrium were proposing to replace the center of that with an angled skylight uh more in keeping with the rest of the atrium and give uh give the atrium a little bit of a new look compared to what's there now.

Um the the intention is to restore the exterior um to what was what was previously there.

Um the main building is obviously very historic, so we'll be restoring all the masonry.

Uh the plan is to restore the windows.

Most of the windows are not original to the building.

They've been replaced.

Um there are windows at the turrets with curved glass that we will obviously be retaining uh given their historic character.

Will you be replacing the replacement windows?

Pardon?

The the 1980s non-historic windows, will you be replacing those?

That we have not yet determined exactly if that's going to do with them.

This is all pretty conceptual, Kate.

Yep.

At this point.

But again, not original, that's the most important part.

And to my point that there'll be a survey of all the windows serving those approximate dates of uh which windows are whether eighties, nineties, or later.

I would note that the there's basically zero lot line everywhere.

And in fact that edge of the atrium is surrounded by city property.

Former former city right-of-way.

Well, no, the plaza area is city property.

I'm saying the atrium is within the former city right away.

Yes, that was carved out East Genesee Street.

Yeah.

Right.

But when you open that door, the edge of the door.

Yeah.

Okay.

So when you say preliminary, we're at like 30% design or like total concept.

15%.

Yeah, okay.

This is just a huge undertaking.

This is great.

My experience with this building is unlocking the potential around the perimeter on it, especially on Warren Street.

And asking about reopening any of those historic openings if you're looking at that.

And then there's a number of windows that are bricked over or covered up.

Is your intention here to open as many of those back up?

Obviously, we've we've obviously per layout of we've had preliminary conversations about that.

We haven't made a firm decision on that.

Speaking for HKK, I would say that would be something that we would uh support.

I mean obviously interior layout will dictate some of those openings if they stay or you know or can be reopened.

Yeah.

But um just my comments is you know that the articulation of the ground floor, it's such a striking building for that ground floor has just been abused for the last 50 years.

Yeah.

Agreed.

Uh and so if there's uh a little more attention spent on that at this level, it's well deserved.

Yeah.

Agreed.

I like the replacement of the uh round top on the atrium.

I think that kind of gets us out of an era sensitive to the that's exactly what it does.

Yeah, I like that a lot.

Um trying to I think we have we explored using that space between the building on the roof and not that.

Yeah, we haven't gotten that far, potentially.

So all exterior will just be treated as is, all the tin and all the trim.

Yeah, uh it's a restoration project.

Prepped and restored.

You stated the curved windows are remain correct.

Absolutely.

That's awesome.

Um just trying to go through go through any major changes to the main entrance.

Are we upgrading?

Are you or we're trying to bring back anyway?

I we we haven't had specific conversations about that.

I would I think speaking for HKK, we would like to replace that entrance with something a little more sensitive.

In terms of the entrance, but just note that there's for accessibility that we were manipulating the sidewalk to reach.

As is, yeah.

But it looks like you're going full curb for the drawing.

Is your intention to use the Genesee Street as your primary entrance and not the Washington?

Washington.

Washington sales primary.

Okay.

Yeah.

Obviously, depending on what ends up being the use of the ground floor, whether the how many tenants there are, uh there may be multiple entries.

Right.

Well, you're using the East Genesee Street address.

Yes, that's the address of the building.

Yeah, okay.

Uh but as far as you know, entry to the building in the tower, we'd we would reuse the existing ramp and the existing entry.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Right.

Right now.

Is there anything you guys want to add?

Any other questions?

So at this point, can I just clarify then for um you are uh am I correct that you're going in front of the planning commission?

Yes.

Uh the on the first, I believe.

On the first.

And so you are looking for recommendation from the board with the understanding that any alter like if you decide you're able to open up the ground floor or other changes, window survey, that kind of thing, you'll be coming back to the LPB and this is a tax credit project also.

So we'll be going through the full process with SHIPON NPS.

Okay.

Assuming there is a SHIPON and NPS.

So far so good.

Okay, thank you.

And just want to make sure we're clear.

Recommendations?

Comments?

Keep up the good work.

This is great.

It is a great project.

This is awesome.

This is truly awesome for Saratus.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Jim.

We look forward to working with you.

Okay.

Yes.

Mr.

Hydro.

That core.

So there are two of them.

Yeah.

So this is major site plan review also.

Number 2529.

Oops.

Quiet, quiet it back, please.

Oh, well, at least you're leaving with smiles.

That's true.

All right.

This is a major site plan review number 2529.

It is for 652 West Johnondaga Street.

Renovation and exterior alterations to convert a property into private club and residence.

The property is eligible for the National Register of Historic Places.

And Hilary Donahue is here representing the applicant.

And the project.

Hi, Hillary Donhue.

Board member.

And this is reviewing comment.

This is also for common for board comment.

Yep.

Let's see.

City Link Architecture, 408 Otisco Street, Syracuse, New York.

I'm presenting on 652 West Onadaga Street.

So this is a grand mansion that was built in 1893 for Wilbert Smith, who was one of the Smith typewriter brothers.

So 1893, this was designed by Charles Colton, who also did the building we're sitting in.

Much of West Onadaga Street was funeral homes in this era.

They owned it for about 30 years.

After that, it was a nursing home.

In the 70s, it was bought by consolidated industries and attached to the building next to it.

There's a mansion at 658 Westinadaga to the left.

Yeah, you can kind of see the steep peak, I think.

Yeah.

If we if you go back to the photos.

Maybe it's better in the other in the PDF.

Anyways, there's a mansion to the left of this one, and the two um buildings were attached.

Okay.

Well now you can kind of see.

So this this photo is being taken from 658 West Anadaga of 652, and you can see that um red bridge building.

Um that building is basically a two-story hallway.

There was an elevator installed.

Um, but these are two separate properties.

So part of this review is we're talking about um getting rid of that connection.

Um but let's see, so consolidated built the bridge.

Um and most recently, 652 was a single family home.

Um it's always had a couple of apartment units built out in the back.

Um not always, they were former servants' quarters, but there has been an apartment rented out um while it was a single family home.

Um so the current owner, the project that we're working on now is to convert it to a mixed-use building.

The idea is to have two residential apartment units in the back, former servants' quarters, and to convert the front grand portion of the mansion into a private club.

The idea with the private club is that it would operate something like the Barnes Mansion on James Street.

Membership would be fairly accessible, and the owner wants to lean this in a performing arts direction.

So one of the ideas she has, she's working with local theater groups.

The idea of having like a play that moved through the mansion, and the audience kind of follows behind the play.

But through this, keeping the grand portion of the mansion intact, not messing with the layout.

The exterior renovations that we're talking about in the major site plan review.

Can I flip through pictures or now we're gonna tour around?

This is a drawing that there's a contractor who had a friend, went to a funeral.

The friend was like, hey, I've seen that mansion before.

So this is the Garfield Burns funeral home, had has this hanging on a wall.

Um so this is you know an artist's drawing of the mansion as it was when the funeral home owned it.

So the mansion's very much still intact.

The back stables, this was formerly stables.

Um the outbuilding doesn't is not there anymore.

Um there are the granite from the outbuilding is scattered around the site.

You could probably put it back together if you've got under the the landscaping and found all the blocks.

Um and uh this piece is not here, but much of the any of the pieces that were dismantled, there's like a lot of um pieces and parts stored in the basement right now.

So this is the mansion as it looks today.

Um the first story is granite, and the shingled siding is actually terracotta.

There have been some wood replacements, we think, but it explains why it's survived intact for so long, you know.

The roof was um tile roof before, and many of the tiles are still in the attic.

So again, someday if somebody wants to put it back together.

Um, this is the grand stair.

These were all stained glass.

The bottom three windows were removed at some point.

Um now we're starting to see that bridge building between the two mansions.

Oh, that can you go back to that little um to the right, the red triangle, that's where the port cochere was.

You got it, yep.

Okay, yep, and yeah, and the notch and uh stone wall.

So between the two properties, you can't see because there's a lot of overgrowth.

Um, but the base, the granite base is still there.

So the idea would be when we if when we dismantle the bridge building and have a driveway that continues all the way to the back of the property again.

The idea is to keep that granite base.

Um we just have to see if the width still works.

So we're going backwards.

See, um, so this is from the rear of the property, so you can tell, you know, this is the servants' quarters portion back here.

We can go back to the floor plans in a bit, but these back two stages on the first and second floors are where we're um proposing the two um residential apartment units.

Um, this is the entrance to the first floor unit.

Um, and right now the second floor unit entrance is you know through the bridge building.

But the idea is that when we dismantle the bridge building, uh, there's a new entryway that comes in at this point.

So you can see the second floor is cantilevered over uh the first floor.

This probably used to be some kind of porch situation.

Um so now we're looking at the elevation closest to this big apartment building.

I think these Faith and Hope apartment buildings were built in the 50s, uh, something like that.

20s and 30s.

Okay, 20s, 30s.

There we go.

Um we're pretty close to the lot line on this side of the property.

There's fencing back here, there's overgrowth, there's some big trees.

Um this is the interior of the mansion, just a couple pictures.

It's really amazing.

A couple of you have been through it.

Um there are um four or five sets of pocket doors that when closed, you have a lot of separate rooms, but when open, it's a really open floor plan.

It's pretty amazing for something built in the 1890s.

The windows that remain, there's a lot of prism glass, and it throws rainbows on the walls.

You know, you can imagine when these old ones were intact.

But at least um the owners, you know, this building's gotten a lot of um respect over the years.

The last owner that had it for a long time is a single family home, put a lot of time and energy and money into it to keep it up.

I think that is all my pictures.

So go back to some drawings.

And if you have questions.

The building in the back you said?

Yeah.

It's not no, it's not there anymore.

Oh, out of curiosity, how because there's obviously parking in the back, and that's where the elevator now.

Oh, how is it back?

Right now there's a driveway to the left of 658 West Andaga, the neighboring building.

So you you just pull in and out of that side.

Like from the back piece that you are taking out.

Well there.

That's good.

Yeah.

Do you have one from the front?

Um, yes, in the, let's see.

On the street is what I kind of shrouded in trees.

And I don't I should have thrown that in there.

No, I don't have a good one up.

Can we go to Street View?

Is that a street view?

So a couple of questions, comments.

So with the bridge coming out, that removes any um elevator access from first to second floor, and that's the issue with this with this request.

So the owner looked into having the elevator brought back up to working order, and it was gonna be uh a crazy amount of money, and it's an older elevator, so it's not gonna be current standards.

Um, and then um there's zoning issues with having the bridge connecting over property line, and there's also insurance issues with having the bridge connecting.

So the idea um we first explored um ramping up to that entryway, but it's 43 inches above grade, so it's you know, a lot of ramp.

So we're now looking at uh a platform lift instead.

Um with that uh corridor coming down, what is there for infill and how do you plan to patch the exterior?

Yeah, it's still material or somewhat exploratory.

Um, you know, taking pieces and parts down and seeing, but there's a drop ceiling on the first floor portion of the bridge building, and when you get up in there, you can see like the wood trim um that was at the ceiling level of the first story, is still kind of intact.

So the idea would be to keep whatever parts um are intact.

And then there's some trim pieces in the basement too, so we could explain.

So that bridge connected into an open porch on the first floor?

Um we don't have pictures of the back.

So it's all we can tell is the second floor cantilevers out over where they put the bridge.

I guess that's the best.

Yeah, it's heavily a winter view, no?

Heavily treed.

Okay.

Okay, and then within the units, there's no window replacements, everything remains in situ.

Yeah.

Yep.

Um all the windows are staying as is.

The windows are in good shape.

Um there are storms um, and the the glass in the storms is very cloudy, and we were exploring if she has, you know, if she was gonna use Andrew, she got quotes from Andrew with the reproduction manufacturing, wood storms on the other mansion.

The same owner bought both mansions, we're tackling this one first.

Um the storms, it turns out they're really dirty.

They haven't been cleaned maybe in 30 years.

They're dirty.

Like she has cleaned some of the back storms, and the glass is no longer cloudy.

So ahead.

My last question is the door that you're showing on the second floor with the staircase coming out, that's for egress.

Is that an existing opening or is that proposed?

It's not an existing opening, it's a proposed opening.

So there was a second stair in the back interior, um, but it's back in that servants' quarters area.

So most likely we're gonna need the second egress from the front portion of the mansion, and that was you know the most hidden place to do it.

It uh kind of reaches back to the parking area.

So the piece that's going to be removed is that two-story piece where the window is to the lowest to the edge of the low room, I'm assuming.

To the left.

To the left.

Yeah, everything with the red siding on it would be removed.

Oh, so all of it, even that okay, yeah.

Yeah.

It's basically a hallway.

It's not very nice.

It's no, I got it.

And that becomes your drive to the back.

Yeah.

And it, you know, it it was formerly the drive to the back.

Oh, so you've got a you have a curb cut.

Yeah, the curb cut has stayed intact through all of the curb and sidewalk replacement and replacement replacement.

It's still there, yeah.

That's yeah.

It's on the other site, I think, actually.

But that remains?

It's it remains for now.

I don't we haven't figured out 658 just yet.

All the yeah, it's the service to 658.

That's expensive to move.

Yeah, so probably it remains.

Makes a tight driveway.

Well, that's why I asked, because um moving that I had a project once where that was entertained and it was so prohibited.

That's all torn down to the O'Connor.

Yeah, that's the while.

Yeah, they left some of the trim intact.

I was saying there's a drop ceiling on the first floor, so you can see that you know yeah, you know, what we're saying is the second story will be a uh window infilled where the door opening is currently because there are doors on the first and second stories of the bridge into the 652 building.

The bridge.

Yeah, it doesn't look great.

But it was convenient, you know, elevator to both buildings.

What an incredible house.

I'm sad.

I've never been inside it.

Yeah, I'd be happy to arrange.

It's amazing.

I think it's one of the nicest houses in Syracuse.

So comment on the affirmative on this on this project.

Yes, yes.

It looks like a great project.

Thank you.

And this again is the same situation where you're going before the um uh CBC and so looking for comments of the affirmative.

So great.

So this is eligible, it's not listed.

Correct.

That is correct.

And actually it's part of uh district that has been hanging out there, an eligible district that's been hanging out there that really I think that the amount of investment that's going on that or potential investment could be really bolstered by the tax credits.

So could it could there be ground support to push that district like using this as a project as a project that really kicks off the uh we're working on so the set amount of the owner has applied for the DRI funding?

The owner has applied for the DRI funding through the city.

Um and so we are you know talking back and forth with the state SHIPO department.

Okay.

Thank you, Hillary.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um so under discussion, we actually have uh just quick a quick update about um the exemption legislation.

Um and and then uh Nicole wanted to uh had just two quick other uh items as well that she wanted to discuss.

Um so just to bring everyone up to speed.

Um at the moment, the uh zoning administrator referred the um proposed text amendment back to the common council um a requesting a required state environmental quality review act documentation, the seeker documentation um and uh the uh that will assess the impact of the proposed text amendment to historic resources seeker um reviews not only environmental impacts of projects potential for environmental impact but also uh on cultural historic resources.

So um it will be a um type one action.

Um and uh so that is uh uh and until our my understanding is is until the dot the application is complete, um they have the information, the 60 day review time clock um does not start ticking.

sources so um it will be a um type one action um and uh so that is uh uh uh and until our my understanding is is until the dot the application is complete um they have the information the 60 day review time clock um does not start ticking so as soon as they get that that it will start to speaker needs to be submitted and then um zoning zoning will be able to uh submit it over to the county planning board and then the cpc will will um have uh will then be able to review it as well um and uh once that clock does start ticking it is it's six sixty days um that uh cpc has to respond with a with its comments and recommendations so that's where we are right now a little bit of a holding pattern um and uh there it has generated a lot of conversations so um unless you have any other questions I'm just gonna hand it over to Nicole to um so I had two things that I wanted to update the board on regarding Pacney's activities um earlier this month we held a summit for partners across our five county service area a couple of our board members here attended as well as Kate um we had historic preservation commission members from throughout our area um shipwreckes uh other officials concerned citizens um and even some some historic contractors and we invited the STEAM school team to come and present on that incredible project that they just completed um to give us a little bit of inspiration about what preservation can do and how the tax credits can really be a transformative tool for large scale projects and part of our discussion after the presentation was a series of different brainstorming ideas where our guests were able to share information about historic districts they they want us to pay attention to um potential sites that need to be listed so this really ties into uh jeff's comment about West Onadaga Street and different ways that PacNE can get involved um to help support the community and make tax credits more accessible we also discussed about the future of PacNE and what folks were most interested in the organization providing um resources uh workshops lecture series um homeowner series teaching folks how to repair uh their windows how to paint how to remove paint from hardware a variety of skills um so we will be developing a plan based on all of the feedback that we received and I will definitely share that with the board when it's ready early next year um and hopefully we can partner with this board as well to to promote some educational materials and um dispel some of those mysteries that that folks have about preservation the second update is that PacNE is holding its annual preservation awards on Friday December 5th this DEAM school is one of our uh award recipients as well as others from uh our surrounding counties and uh it'll be held here at St.

Paul's uh on Montgomery Street which is also uh award recipient and um Bob Yeager the president of uh Partners for Sacred Places will be our keynote speaker and the church utilized funds um through through Bob Yeager's organization to do a really tremendous uh restoration project which we have reviewed here on this board thank you great working good work anything else that's it as far as I may I have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn that was pretty five minutes over my pardon