The meeting today is around item 11 on our agenda.

It is about fire technics.

Pyrotechnics.

You know, um, so in a nutshell, this is about fireworks and the fees involved around that.

That's what it is.

Um right here, I'm joined by my fellow counselors, uh Rashida Codwell, our president, uh Rita Penyawa, and we've got a couple of other counselors that I'll take a break and we'll be back.

They'll be right back.

We have been working no more time today.

So and I'm joined by Paich and I can wait.

We pitch it.

I don't want them to miss and then ask a bunch of questions that I might already go over.

Yeah, we'll be giving one more minute.

Okay.

Um so but I'm joined by uh Chief Mondanese team.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us.

Uh executive deputy chief Elton Davis and First Deputy Chief Dan Downs.

Of course.

Yes.

Of course.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you both.

Um let's wait a little bit.

Should be here.

Two minutes yet.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

We were waiting for you.

What is going on?

We will wait for you while I'm here.

Yeah, it's called that Marty.

Okay.

So Chief, just so we um just give out the world proof overview of what this is and where we are where we are, where we are trying to go.

Alright, I'll give you the I'll give you the full scope of everything, and then uh it should answer most questions, but then if you have questions and me and uh we've been working on this for a few years to try to think about the last time this was updated.

When this was done and so put historical.

I have all that information.

So the four of us, I'm just just giving you know, someone's a little shade right now.

You know, cheap mass.

I just want to find out.

Are you trying to make it 1993?

1993, we graduated together.

1993.

I just had to throw a little show you know, this way uh and uh Chief Man's just bought two houses from the land bay, too.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Yep, yep.

Fix them all up with these hands and a few other hands.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, uh Council Lave here.

Council Yorano will catch up.

Okay.

I'll start off if you're ready.

Yeah, okay.

Well, we're here to request um approval for a proposed amendment to um chapter five of the revised general ordinances, uh, specifically those that govern amusement businesses and public assemblies for entertainment or culture.

Uh this amendment will establish a new and clearly defined category of entertainment titled pyrotechnics, fireworks and flame effect displays.

It's gonna create a new article, which is gonna be number 12, and it's gonna set forth specific rules and safety requirements and uh permit standards governing these events within the city.

Uh the purpose of this amendment first is it's intended uh to properly regulate pyrotechnics both indoor and outdoor within the city of Syracuse in alignment with New York State Fire Code, executive law, and our NFPA standards, which is the National Fire Protection Association standards, and they uh provide standards that keep people safe with all types of fire protection.

Um secondly, and equally important, uh, this amendment is intended to recover the actual documented costs associated with permit application reviews, safety plan approvals, on-site oversight, and standby coverage provided by our trained code compliant fire personnel.

Um these costs are currently absorbed by the fire department budget, um, and we're taking a significant loss and uh effect the department is subsidizing pyrotechnic events with taxpayer dollars, even though these events are produced uh by private entities that generate revenue from them.

Uh, this proposed free schedule uh will ensure that these pyrotechnic events can continue and take place, um, but requiring that the entities that profit from them um they will bear the appropriate and reasonable costs associated uh with the public oversight that's mandated.

Um currently uh the city of Syracuse charges $25 per pyrotechnic event.

Um the fee does not reflect today's operational realities and how much it costs us that to staff these events.

Um and to your question about historical context, um, before we raised concerns over these uh fee schedules in 2024, some organizations were paying $25 for an entire season of pyrotechnic events, um, and it wasn't buy per event.

While that practice has since been corrected, every event now is only $25 per event, but it's still hopefully insufficient for what it costs us to staff these events.

Um between 2023 and 2024, uh the fire department's overtime costs to staff these events increased by nearly 50 percent.

And we projected uh to continue increases into 2025 and 26 if this fee schedule is not remedied with this proposed legislation.

So despite issuing uh permits for dozens of pyrotechnic events, we annually only recoup eight percent of what it costs for us to staff these events.

Um, and it's not a sustainable model.

Um, and to go in a little bit deeper into the numbers, uh 2023, uh our staff spent uh 208 overtime hours um staffing these pyrotechnic events.

We spent $13,500 in 2024.

We spent 293 hours at these events on overtime that costs uh close to 21,000 dollars.

Um between those two years, that's an 85 um an increase of 85 overtime hours over the previous year or 41 percent, and that's an increase of 50 percent um in the amount of money we spent, which is close to 6,700.

Um, you know, like I said, um as we get into 2025 and 2026, um, more of these events are getting on people's schedule, so the cost is just going up, and with this minimal 25 fee, it's not enough.

Um, and for more reference, um back in 2023, we issued 44 pyrotechnic permits.

Um, some places like the Mets and um places like the landmark theater who have um shows that have these um um pyrotechnic events.

Um historically, they would just pay that 25 for the entire season now.

They're paying uh for every event.

Uh then to put this into perspective in uh that 2023 for those 44 displays, the total revenue we would have gotten is only $1,100, and the actual overtime cost per that year was $13,500.

And like I said, we're only recouping 8% of those costs.

Um in 2024, it was similar.

We permitted 66 events at 25 an event that will come out to 16,000 1,650.

Um that actual overtime cost was 20 almost 21,000, and again, that's only at 8% um recovery rate of what we're spending out of our budget.

And this disparity clearly demonstrates um the inadequacy of the current fee structure, and that's why we're proposing proposing this new structure.

Um these events are occurring at locations like the landmark theater, uh JMA wireless dome, and I'll just say um Syracuse University.

Um they're already paying uh whatever it costs for us to do, um, whether it's pyrotechnics or anything they need our staffing for, they pay us back um in uh full to the total total amount.

Well, we never have an issue with uh Syracuse University with any of the things they need us to require our staffing at.

But we also provide these services at the War Memorial NBT Stadium, the Inner Harbor, um, at Bellevue Country Club, and uh we do churches and schools whenever that's needed.

So I know Chief Davis discussed this a little bit at the um study session the other day, but we're looking at uh feeing for three separate situations.

Uh the first situation is uh gonna be requiring for setup only, it's gonna be for one of our staff members, it's gonna be $75 per event, and this is gonna be for like lower risk events such as cold sparkler displays that um are uh occurring at weddings or sporting events.

Um the reduced uh $75 is uh reflective of the amount of time and the resources required.

Um they go into a quick check, and uh once everything is squared away, they can leave.

So that um situation number one is only gonna be $75.

Um situation two is indoor and outdoor pyrotechnic events.

Uh, this is like the fireworks uh the inner harbor or the big Fourth of July fireworks, um, or like at Syracuse University, um, if they're doing a concert with all the different pyrotechnics in the at a concert, um we're gonna be charging three hundred dollars per event for those uh big events.

Um that permit review, and that's gonna include permit review, and it's gonna include up to four hours of one of our uh certified uh staff members to stand by um at the location.

Um and this is all handled on overtime.

So that fee is gonna be $300.

Um situation number three is gonna be any event um that could be any um combination of one or two that um requires a uh extended standby or additional personnel.

So what we would do is we determine uh the actual hours of whatever pyrotechnic event, um, we'd issue an invoice about the amount of hours we're gonna need, the amount of personnel, um, the hourly rates, and then uh we would um give them an invoice and we'd expect that payment um as soon as uh the events over based on that.

Um and so for a four-hour um for a four-hour standby assignment, it costs us approximately two hundred and ninety-nine dollars, which aligns approximately with the three hundred dollar permit fee.

So how how do you arrive to that specific number?

Because I I see you going from 25 to 75.

What's the justification for for that?

So how do you calculate that?

So for a for one of our members to be um at these locations for four hours, it costs two hundred and ninety-nine dollars and twelve cents.

Or just one for one person, yes.

And like just for a reference, um, just for your information, we did research other cities because we wanted to like have all this information in like the city of Binghamton charges 286 dollars, uh, the city of Rochester charges 294 dollars.

So we're right in alignment with those, but that's the major display, right?

Or the number two minor display.

Um no, that'll be for number two indoor or outdoor pyrotechnic events.

Those are for the big so you just round it up to 300 rather than two.

Okay.

And Chief Davis can get into exactly what they do if you want to know um they have four hours of there's um requirements that they need to do while they're there for those four hours for safety reasons for the people that are uh lighting the fireworks off, uh the people that are watching, and um to make sure that there's no fires that occur because of the fireworks going on.

Okay.

Um so I can get into more, but that's basically I I would looking at especially the 75.

You look at and it depends who you send, right?

For overtime, it depends.

Yes.

Because if it is a high ranking officer, like Chief Alton.

So that's that's in that.

We're talking about something different, right?

But if you are looking at a junior uh firefighter who's just coming in, you know, and when you are look at what they get paid plus over time, it's it's it's pro it's close to to that with with administrative fees and everything else.

Right?

Am I looking at that right?

Correct.

Yes, the um hourly rate is baked into this $300 fee.

If it was only for one hour, that's approximately what it would cost.

Time and half, yes.

Right.

Okay, yeah.

Plus, maybe administrative fees here and there too.

Yeah.

Yeah, and the $75 fee.

Um, somebody's having a wedding, they got these cold sparklers, they'd go, our member would go make sure everything is the way it's supposed to be per the fire code.

Uh once that's um squared away, they would leave.

But if somebody needs to go to make sure that everything that they have um is set up properly, and then when they light it, it's not gonna like um um cause a negative um issue there.

Um so the way I look at it, it's more or less that the the old fee was just a permit application fee.

It wasn't a staff fee.

No staff fee at all.

Yeah.

And and you know, I guess when you go back and look, we went I went back to like 1999, which is 25 years ago.

There was only like, you know, I don't want to pick on any certain one of these organizations, but one of these organizations only did like seven uh pyrotechnics events for a whole season, right?

And so that was $25 for seven games.

And like like I said, since then, um, not that they were all at one entity, but some of these same places that was uh seven events in two in 1999, they got 20 yeah 25 to 30.

So um, you know, being a business and uh a business perspective, if I was them too, I'd do as many as I could for the $25 also, and that is exactly what happened.

But while that's occurring, when I come and you know go through the budget hearings and we're trying to get money in our budget, these dollars are coming out of that money to pay for the.

I'm sitting here, I'm upset because I utilize the parks.

A thousand.

Well, I utilize the parks, and I have to pay $35, $40, $50 just to use the park, oh, I think it's $50 because it's to use the park for one day and $35 or so for electricity.

So, you know, it's how are they paying so little and a resident is paying, you know, this on the other side.

But yeah, so I heard you say so when people are gonna be paying for these services, they don't do any closely ID.

Um no, um the the third option.

Um so the first one, the $75 one, when they apply for the permit, they're gonna pay that up front.

Um, the second one, um, where uh the $300 fee when we know it's gonna be fireworks at like the inner harbor or wherever, it could be at Bellevue Country Club for somebody's doing a wedding.

Uh, we're gonna know uh the um based on the application, the type of fireworks that are gonna go off, we know that somebody needs to be there for four hours, and that's gonna be $300.

They're gonna pay that rate at the time of application.

Um, number three, if I'm not misspeaking, number three, what's gonna happen is if uh say that four hours um goes over to seven or eight hours, then we're gonna bill them for the excess amount of staffing and resources that we put at that location, and then we'll send them an invoice with the amount of people that we needed, how many people were there, um, how much money they make an hour and uh what they were doing, and we're gonna basically build them, and then we're gonna expect that money to come back um after the after the event.

So I would believe the $300 fee would be hit up front, and then anything that's in excess of that $300, we're gonna build them.

So that's what invoice cost is.

Yes, right.

Okay.

Yes.

Um should there be any cancellations then of any of these, you know, events that people have already paid for.

Um, so what we did it even last year, because we brought this up, and I know it was in the news media because there was a large fire and there was a bunch of different things.

Um, because um we were working with corporation council on making sure the charter and the ordinances and the charter, the language was uh the way it was supposed to be.

Um, it needed, we needed more time to get that straight.

And so even though we have been wanting to make these changes, anybody that had a permit in effect, um, we just let them pay the $25 a fee, but um for event.

But when this um hopefully this gets passed, uh this will start January 1st, I believe, the way the legislation is written.

I mean, going back to to them when you said uh they would pay a balance if they if you needed more people run the event, they would know that before that happens.

Um I mean they would know that if you needed more people, you would have to ask them for more money.

Yes, based on what they're gonna apply and what they're planning on doing and how many fireworks or how many different ordinances that they're going to um the application.

Yes, it's gonna be the application, and then um anything that goes over that, we're gonna invoice them based off that.

Anything you wanna add?

I want to stay around what concept and the hour.

Cancellation.

You want to give up the microphone?

Yep, sorry, okay.

Sorry about Miss Uh, stand downtown.

To your question about a cancellation, the majority of the instances where there is a cancellation, we keep the dollar amount and do a rescheduled date.

Uh okay.

So most times it's still, it's not wasted money if we just shift the date because typically it's rain.

Okay.

I mean, I'm off for this.

It just seems self-explanatory.

I'm just curious, what made your online stay we're saying?

It's a third thousand, brother.

I mean, but it's been this way for years.

Like, I mean, for years you guys have been getting.

Yeah, I think, you know, I think the community looks forward to these events.

I think when we start, you know, you know, I've been the chief for a couple years, and then we started, you know, these things come up and we start looking at it, and it's like, how do you address it?

So it's equitable, you're not gonna ruin everybody's summer, but you know, when you're making sure that the money as a um steward of the tax dollars that we're given to make sure it's going to the mandatory things we have to do, and this is kind of not mandatory.

You know, we're we're you know, I would say the fire department, um, we're not in the business of um besides doing fire department education and outreach, right?

Um, some of these events are put on, we're just going to make sure they're safe.

And as we started realizing there are more of these events, we realize we weren't funding it properly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what uh what kind of theater events part of techniques?

There's landmark theater.

I'll let Chief Davis.

So when these shows come in like the Wyang King or somebody like that, so if they have any kind of technical that we would give them.

Yeah, uh Elton Davis, executive deputy chief fire department.

You're like Joe Berry.

Joe Barry owns an introduces himself too.

Oh, I think that was the protocol your counselor.

It is uh so the with regards to theater events, okay?

So we theater events.

And in the fire code, you're not allowed to have open flame or an open flame inside a theater.

Okay.

Under there are special provisions in which you can have that.

But in order for specifically for the landmark there, the landmark, if you're familiar with it, we we propose to charge a pyrotechnic fee for that because on the interior of the landmark, because of his its historic nature, there is no fire detection.

There's no notification, no detection inside that theater.

So for us to allow for us to allow someone to come in there and light light uh light a candle or pour pyrotechnics in there, that would expose those 22 to 2,000.

2,700 possible occupants in there with no notification.

So we were we for that particular one, we would require a pyrotechnic uh pyrotechnic permit for that, just to just so that we we have the proper personnel on scene that we we ensure that they go through all the permitting processes with regards to using proper ordinances or uh making sure we have proper clearances, notification for the occupants in there.

But with regards to other if oh let me I did I answer your question regarding that?

You did.

I I was wondering, I know the uh the end center and the war memorial and all that, they always have certainly the don't what I'm trying to get at is uh one thing I was wondering how much more revenue would you garner with it if this was passed.

How much more revenue would the fire department?

Of course, the money wouldn't go to the fire department, but it would go to the general funds.

And I think we're just recovering our costs.

We're not we're not, I mean, it would go in the revenue line, but we're not actually making a profit.

The way I got it, just just on the back of an envelope type figuring is that you're only talking about $67, $6,700 with just the Mets.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then $6,700 for the whole season.

Yep, and and then that would only cost that would only pay for the cost of us sitting the people.

If we if we charge a thousand dollars, then we'd you know, we'd make we'd make a profit if we charge more than a $300.

See, and this is like maybe my uh I figure, and I try to get the information from uh uh Samoro.

I figured um, as far as this goes, first of all, all these license fees, they all should be reviewed.

Every single one of them, you just I'm glad your your uh department took the initiative to do this.

And if I was going to ask the administration, I guess they're on vacations this week.

Um, you know, I mean, we should re review all of these license fees.

But second of all, yeah, I know the with the Chiefs, and maybe we have a professional here too, uh, Mr.

Council McNavi, but I think if they garner five or six thousand people more a game because of those fireworks, this is a wash just in sales tax.

This is like a wash.

So I think there should be a separate.

I mean, what's a community event in a benefit?

What's the community benefit in all of this?

You know, I certainly think you should get, but this is only $6,700 more for the whole C.

And if there was money that was just given to us in the budget to pay for this without the fee schedule, is just, you know, you know, as a fire chief, we have things we need to do to make sure the firefighters are safe, the people are safe that are outside of this.

No doubt about you're the one the most professional department in the state.

But I mean, I mean, just I'm just wondering what the in the end, what is the community benefit?

If he can't say cancel, and I don't know how the funding works for this for the Sergeus Mets.

I'm sure Council Renave gets paid by some entity, but I don't uh obviously I don't think the New York Mets uh actually pay for everything that happens in the state.

The Mets are actually owned by Diamond Baseball Holdings.

It's a multiple dollar, they're not a mom and pop organization.

Who's that?

I'm talking about Diamond Baseball Holdings own all the Syracuse Mets, the Binghamton Rumble ponies, the Brooklyn Cyclones, the Worcester Red Sox, Scranton, Scranton Rail riders, and that's just a few.

They're not a mom and pop organization.

So once that license, once we signed that agreement, and this happened in past years, the Mets have decided to add on more special fireworks sites in the medal of the week, which is not on the schedule.

They'll add something more to it, and then they'll call Chief and they'll say, Oh, by the way, Chief, we just added another few more within that permit we have.

So now he's tied down, chief is now tied down, because they're gonna do that in the back.

Seventh inning, you gotta get a uh uh ladder.

Just remember, when we had that time to fire, if that kind of fire had happened a week, three weeks, four weeks later, number one, there would have been no ball game that night because they would not been able to access enough water.

We don't have a uh uh the fire department presence there that night.

So in my opinion is that many organizations who consider nonprofit sometimes take advantage of our city, take advantage of that that permit fee for the year.

And uh and I can and I can say this is not a and I've talked to Mr.

Small.

They're not a they're not a nonprofit.

No, they're not a mom and pop.

And I've talked to Jason Score on this.

But what I'm saying is the city of Syracuse benefits from another five thousand people coming to that ballpark every night because that's where I'm just like I you they might get 10,000, but I figure another five five thousand, a half dead attendance is because of the fire.

So they already got their sales, season ticket off, they already got the money in.

So you're talking about walk up, which might be another two thousand, three thousand, yeah, uh three three thousand, which would boost that revenue that night and food sales.

Right, absolutely, but then sometimes, but we have to look at the bottom dollar.

It's not a mom and pop organization.

They're making a profit.

I think we should compare what happens to Worcester and Scranton and Bingham Ted.

But before you say that publicly, I mean, before you, you know, I know you're espousing uh, you know, I'm trying to be I mean, but I'm I'm just wondering if you're partisan.

I mean no, I know you're not.

I'm just wondering, have you seen the the their financials at all?

Who I'm just wondering who actually pays for it.

You're saying I can basically I can answer a little bit of that, right?

Is like so just say the Mets because that's what we're talking about.

There are seven different private licensed pyrotechnic companies that actually apply for the permit.

Jason Small and the Mets do not apply for the permit.

The pyrotechnic companies do, and then they they charge the right, they charge the organization, whether it's landmark, and so there's seven companies that are for-profit organizations that are however that business model works for them, um, that's what they're doing.

And you know, there's two buckets of money.

It's a bucket of money that we're getting from the budget that we go through the budget process that we have in this bucket A, and then we're doing all our life safety things, fire prevention, all those things, and we're trying to do it out of that bucket.

And in this bucket is to provide staffing for these fireworks.

What this legislation does provide for us is that bucket of money that comes from the tax base that comes in our budget, we're gonna actually have a an essential a secondary bucket of money that's only gonna be filled up when somebody applies for the permit.

Doesn't go in your bucket, no, it goes in the general revenue budget.

But what I'm saying is though paying for that $6,700 will and essentially, I mean our money's intertwined with the rest of the city money, right?

But it's not coming out of the money that I was given for my budget for that, and we'll we're we're fronting the money, but at some point the money's coming back to the city, and the way the way I look at it, that money, even though it's going to the general fund, it should come back in our budget for next year.

It's common knowledge among economic development folks.

For every dollar you spend, it's and I'm sure it counts for Penny Igo knows this, and cultural or sports events, four dollars comes back as far as economic development goes.

But it doesn't come in the budget.

I don't think it's gonna, I don't think it would be a deterrent.

So we're just trying to be able to pay for this, like we don't know.

Oh, I mean no it's publicly stated by the Mr.

Samoro that he probably would cancel three three of the shows.

I don't think so.

Well, okay, uh certainly well it's a fire tax Obama.

But I mean but I guess I guess the my my the bottom line for us is to be able to like provide the service and then be able to pay for it out of the money that I'm using for life safety things, and this isn't a life safety thing.

We're trying to be able to create some revenue based off the fee schedule to so people can go have a good time, so whatever economic development dollars come in.

I'm not against what you're saying, but it's kind of coming off the back.

Yeah, and any of these license fees or anything like that.

Anything that's down the road may be prohibitive for us to have people come in and enjoy community benefits or not, like community uh celebrations like this.

I get what you're saying, OG, and I get what you're saying.

Uh we gotta go, even parks went up on their fees, like you got to like you guys are losing to do events, right?

So it's taken out to the budget, and if anything, you should be able to break even not we so I do agree, understand what you're saying.

And if somebody started, yeah, we gotta go up, and every situation's be different, right?

You have the ability to say, hey, this situation is different.

This is about this, this is this, you know, you have that ability to, you know, wave and shift things, but um, to lose a couple hundred dollars for an event in a budget that we're at least in our overtime budget, right?

It's used for frontline, you know, replacement of firefighters and things like that.

So by the way, you guys, it's just something by the way, I watch um fire on Meadowbrook.

I mean, on Bradford and Genesee Street, you fire your fire department, and they were on you guys did a phenomenal job.

Okay, okay.

Chief Downs was there with the team and yeah, that was that wasn't it.

So, yeah, we're just one we want to just be able to fund these.

And if they do a firework show every night of the year, there's no way we can afford it out of our budget, but if we have this fee schedule.

Well, well, yeah, yeah, like $60,700 I could be using for the things that aren't um non-safety things.

Like the money that's in my budget isn't to pay for supporting a pyrotechnic company.

The money in my budget as a fire chief, in my opinion, is to pay for our firefighters to give them the resources.

You know, you know, I know council Hogan, I'm not I'm speaking to the choir, but what I'm saying is I don't have money that's etched out of my budget to pay for these things, and we've been doing it, and like, and then I'm I'm cutting other things, but this permit fee schedule will allow us to have a secondary income to pay for these, and the money that's given to me in my budget, I can use for the stuff to protect the firefighters as they're doing their job in the city.

I think that's what this proposal is trying to do.

And if there's another way to fund it, you know, I'm not sure what that is, but fees are supposed to be able to pay for the product uh and the fire code.

Um that's why I wouldn't force them to look at all fee structures and what we're trying to accomplish as far as charging fees, because some people think you know, taxpayers' money should just go to support support a lot of events in the city of Syracuse.

Yeah.

I know we do that as far as our special events downtown.

You know, I was involved with special events a lot.

I hate to see, you know, some uh uh theater prep production not being able to go ahead because of a you know a fee structure that might be prohibited for them do it because around the marginal line anyway.

And even before this, I think um Councillor Paniago was asking, well, what are we gonna do um while um permits are in limbo or but you know in the summer, I was contemplating just denying the application because I didn't have the money in my budget to pay for these.

So if I don't have the money to pay for them, they're not they're not gonna do the fireworks anyway if we can't afford them.

So also, like you just said, you compared it to Binghamton, Rochester, I think, or Rochester.

And um, I mean, some of these games or uh shows, they're traveling to all these other areas also, so they're familiar with the cost of doing business is just lowered here in Syracuse.

Yeah, it's inequality.

To a detriment to the budget, you know.

Um, Chief, I want to go back to the legislation um special item display number three.

Okay, the first um paragraph, or at least second, that say the permit fee shall be double when a display has been conducted before the city has issued the permit.

How do we enforce?

I'll let Chief Davis explain that.

So the double fee concept comes from that's comes from the central permit office from our code enforcement.

Anytime a time a contractor goes out and does work, you know, does does work, permitted work, work that should be permitted in the city, whether it's building, uh building construction, the the city allows or the central permit office or the our code enforcement allows us to double fee that person for doing the work without a permit.

So we this the concept about double feeing, this would this would prevent folks from coming in, setting up a pyrotechnic event, setting it off, and now we find out about it afterwards.

You know what I mean?

That that would be a discouragement to say, okay, you you come, you do, you put your service on.

We still need to come back and review it, make sure that you did it safely, figure out how it fell through the gaps that we weren't there or that you didn't submit a permit.

And I think that double fee will prevent individuals from if we had that language in there, would prevent individuals from coming in believing that they could sneak it by us.

You know, we've had quite a few events here and some of the smaller theaters around here about pyrotechnic events going on that we have no no about till after the fact until we see them on YouTube.

You know what I mean?

And some of those, some of those things, you know, we see them on YouTube, we go in, they got flamethrowers, things like going going on on the stage.

We know nothing about, you know what I mean?

And in order for those to, in order for them to perform those things, they have to alter the fire alarm in the building, either turn it off.

So now we have a have a venue that has five, six hundred thousand people in there, no fire surf, no fire alarm in there to alert them that something's going on.

So we have to have some type of, I'm not gonna say punitive, but something preventative to stop folks from you know, fly by night companies or somebody coming in, putting on a performance and then leaving out.

Davis, did um as far as like that first line of cold sparklers and what about weddings and events, those type have you had those events needs the we we uh over the years, Syracuse Fire Department with some of the bigger wedding venues like Hotel Syracuse and some of those wedding venues, and we've developed a good relationship with some of those, with some of those uh property owners, such that when they schedule an event or they have an event, someone at a wedding, the cold sparklers are the things you know, football teams run out under the smoke machines, things like that.

That they they'll contact us and send their applicant to us to say, okay, you you're gonna need a prevent because they don't want to turn off the whole fire alarm in their hotel or alter their fire alarm, alter their fire protection in the hotel based on that one event.

So they they alert us to those things.

We go over, we research it, make sure that equipment that they're using is licensed equipment, make sure that the spacing or where they're setting it off is not going to adversely set off a fire alarm.

So that's part of our permit review, you know, an on-site permit review, which is included in the fee.

You know, we go to the venue, make sure that things are laid out properly, make sure that the fire served the protection systems in them in the building are operating properly, and then we issue the permit based on that uh evaluation.

So we have a good, we have a very good relationship with that with respect to Syracuse University, uh, not Syracuse University, the hotel, that newer venue that's downtown, because we've been involved in a permitting process, you know, getting those places online, and we've put them on notice that when they have these type of events that they need permits.

What about like West Scott Theater?

Westcott Theater.

Again, that that is an ongoing, that is an ongoing so in a situation like that, do you meet with the with the any it's in no uncertain terms, you meet with the council cancer promoter, or you meet with the people that run the West Guide say this has to happen.

Again, but the the obligation for a permit for that, yeah, say the Westcott Theater, any any theater belongs with that property owner.

Okay, you know what I mean.

I don't I don't necessarily have an interaction with I can't or the city can't find or you know, discipline a promoter, right?

You know what I mean?

I we only have ability to discipline that property owner.

So that that's where our that's where our focus goes for these type of things.

But yes, with regards to that, we have been in active conversation with Westcott Theater among other and a whole bunch of other venues to see if we can get this, get this situation straightened out.

Okay, thank you.

Well, Keith, your team thank you, all of you for being here and taking your time to explain these to us counselors.

Thank you for staying here for two hours.

Uh this will conclude our meeting today.

Thank you.

Uh shouldn't adjourn.

Second.

All right, boy, we're adjourned to meeting.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

Hey, oh wait, listen.

He was really good.

Thank you.