Okay.

All right.

Good morning.

This is the Syracuse Landmarks Preservation Board meeting of January 8th, 2026.

Present at the meeting are Nicole Fragnito.

Julia Marshall.

Jeff Romano.

Hillary Donahue.

Amber Dillon.

And Kate Awitter.

Thank you.

May I have a motion to accept the minutes of December 11th, 2025?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

Any modifications to the minutes?

All in favor?

Alright.

Any opposition?

Any abstentions?

Minutes are adopted.

Thank you.

Okay.

The board will now conduct the public hearings on today's agenda.

First, the applicant or the applicant's representative will be invited to describe the proposed scope of work and to present any material or documentation regarding the proposal to the board.

Next persons wishing to speak in favor of the proposal will be given the opportunity to address the board.

Then persons who wish to speak in opposition will be allowed to address the board.

Finally, the applicant or representative will be given the opportunity to make closing comments to board.

Following public comment, the board may vote to approve, approve with conditions, or deny the application just heard.

If the hearing is closed, no additional information will be allowed into the record.

Except for information that the board may request.

Kate, would you please introduce the first application?

Sure.

Um this is actually the continuation of Certificate of Appropriateness 2543.

Um it's for 1010 East Washington Street.

Um and it is for uh actually it says selected uh exterior demolitions and repairs, but it's primarily repairs and the installation of a of uh accessible entrance.

Um this is a local protected site.

Oh, is that is that on?

Okay.

There you go.

I forgot about that one.

We were switching out batteries.

Kate, we're doing one at 1010 first.

Your new your new one.

Okay, yeah.

Yep, 1010 first.

Okay, yep.

So firing off your overloading now.

Um you project.

I'm gonna start, yeah.

Um Brian is gonna come on for someone's got it.

Brian, we started with CHA, so I'm the project.

Um Dave Mosier, the project architect.

Um I'm gonna go through a second option for the rear lift, which he spent all day yesterday getting to you, so that hopefully we can present both options to you, but um he spent so much time on it he woke up sick this morning, so he's not here, but he's available by phone if I need to.

Um but this project we reviewed at your last meeting uh for renovations to the 1010 house and the intent to restore this as a companion piece to um the apartment project that will be placed on site, so this building will be used and renovated and restored for amenity space for those residents.

Um at the last meeting specific to the C of A for the house.

I left with three primary comments that the board gave.

Um one was um fairly simple with just adding the notes to clarify the intent to infill those basement windows.

That's something that wasn't noted on the plan that we discussed.

Um second, you can see we did talk about the um uh uh repairing the existing wood windows and what we would do with the storms.

So we've updated the window schedule um to provide new wood exterior storm windows uh at the request of the board as well.

So that's noted in the window schedule.

And then the last probably the most complicated of the side uh was the ability to provide ADA access to this house, right?

And the delta between our finished floor of our apartments and the finished floor of the house is about four feet.

So I'll be over back and forth.

Obviously requires ADA at uh at the last meeting we presented the option for a wood, an accessible wood ramp.

I need the front or one of the side of the slides.

Um obviously with the four-foot difference, this ramp in meeting the classifications for ADA access was very long, right?

It's like 60 feet in length and occupied a very substantial portion of sort of that front facade.

And we left with trying to look at the options for a mechanical lift outside, right?

So what you will see here is what we started with, which we're going to call option one, which is the front lift at the front door.

The lift requires an enclosure, so it's essentially a very small little piece that the front facade there.

I guess early yesterday, Kate's initial reaction was we didn't understand either the one actually factor having that composed back weather and you know keeping it mechanically operational for needs to have this very large structure around it.

I think the initial reaction was adding that to the front maybe isn't the best option, right?

So if you want to go down to option two, um basically we have the solarium in the back that's non-contributing that we were removing and infilling, and we have validated the option to um use generally that area where that solarium was and that existing opening to place this lift, which I think accomplishes a variety of things.

One, it accomplishes the ADA access that we need.

Uh it also places that lift location directly adjacent to the rear door of the apartments so that people coming out and using that courtyard space have a shorter walk and don't have to go all the way around to the front of the building.

Uh and then third, in terms of its visibility, presentation from the front facade, you know, you won't even be able to see it, so it's kind of screened.

And then Kate and I were talking about an option of putting this potentially on the side of the house, but obviously we know that from 201 Krauss, uh, if you want to go to the site plan real quick and then we'll come back up.

You know, we're going to be seeing this from Krauss, so putting it on the side would kind of make it a capstone piece as well.

And you can see that the building almost the new construction that we'll talk about in a minute almost kind of conceals that lift location there.

So it is a slightly higher lift, but it still meets the specifications of the um lift in the enclosure.

We did have to adjust some of the grading and retaining walls around that area, but that um actually was a benefit as well because it kind of opened up that courtyard space where it was narrowing between the house and the uh the structure as well.

So I think we've addressed at least those three comments, and we can talk about obviously option one or two and what your opinions are of them uh regarding both the notes that we added for the the infilled um basement windows, those additional specs for the exterior storms, and then this lift location that we left with last time.

And I'll pause there for comments.

Uh yes.

Oh, oh, okay.

Sorry.

Yep.

Anyone here want to speak in favor of this options?

The options presented.

Anyone in opposition?

If not, um comment of the board.

Uh wants to start.

A couple of brief comments.

I guan was just stating, I feel um having that lift on the front really obliterates the uh the symmetry and the presentation of the original facade.

And uh hooking it towards the back where the solarium was added really speaks to the history of the building itself, where you have the large prominent facade, then you have the step down, like the kitchen edition, and now you have this third edition.

So it kind of follows the architecture of the building historically.

Uh my question is the looking at the photographs, the grade doesn't seem that far off on the back elevation.

Do we truly need the lift there with your new with a new building going in?

What's what's that delta?

What's that difference?

Um do we really need that whole behemoth on the back of the building?

Yeah, I can explain that if you want to go to the grading plan or the site plan of option two.

What you see in the existing photos is obviously that the building is elevated probably by two courses a block, right?

18 inches or so or maybe 24 inches.

Um we have the new construction that has a finished floor for the residential apartments, so we're fighting grade both ways.

Currently, there's an existing slope that comes up, so the site's much higher than the street.

So we've done two things.

We've depressed the building as much as we possibly can to keep the driveway accessible for a fire truck.

There's a 10% required grade for the fire truck.

So that sets our finished floor of the building.

The finished floor of the building is actually so low that the parking lot you actually have to walk up a set of stairs to get into the first floor.

So the building is depressed as much as it can.

It's actually we're not talking about the new building just yet.

I think the question was correlated.

It's related.

So we have a ramp that has to come up to that finished floor, so it's as high as possible, which makes it actually two feet lower than existing grade at the rear door.

So this patio will be cut from the existing grass that you see.

Okay.

And then in order to get ADA access here.

So yeah, if you were to have to do a switch back of a ramp, it would basically take up.

So we got a two-foot difference from the existing grade one.

That's just the relationship of the new construction to the existing house.

Yeah.

So what is the relationship in terms of if we're talking about grades on the side of the house, on basically on the west side of the house?

What is it from grade from those stairs?

Well, if you go back to the plan, slide back from there.

Well, from the from the at the bottom of that stair up to the building.

This is about existing.

So there'll be two feet of grade difference that will be a landscaped area to get you down to the sidewalk.

So this would still be the stair where it matches existing grade.

It's really this area in the back where we're directly adjacent to the egress door that has a very short distance to be able to accomplish that for it.

So what I'm asking is grade at the bottom of those stairs to the first floor of uh to a one.

This is the same as as it is today.

I know, but I'm asking what is that difference?

Because you said it was 40 inches in the front.

Yeah, uh creating plan here.

Oh, um, it's about the same three and a half.

So it's a little bit lower to directly.

So a 40-inch ramp.

Yeah.

On the side of the building, yeah.

Okay.

Well, but it would match in terms of the measure what they're doing on the new building.

So I guess my my comment I'll start with option one doesn't work.

Um it's in front of the building.

That's number one.

But number two, for 88, the opening of the gate from that lift onto the porch, you don't have ADA uh accessibility at that point because it's not large enough in terms of the if I'm reading the drawing correctly.

Correct.

It would have had to have been completely rebuilt, whereas I think where you're leaning is this rear option actually in your wheelchair, you turn and have the turning on you go right into the into the house, yeah.

Right, you don't have the turning radius whatsoever on that top.

Exactly.

Um and I and I see that you know, with the one on the back, yes, that can work.

I guess I will pose the the question that you're creating a uh well, I'll call a ramp on your new building, but it's basically grade is rising up with a knee wall stone knead wall.

Did you explore the idea of doing that to 201 on the side?

Because in terms of architecture, it would be framing the parking lot, and it actually would then not be truly a ramp, but it would be grade moving up and going in the side door.

I I guess my point is I don't like providing accessibility on the back of a building from a standpoint from accessibility that you're you know, you're it's the secondary exit, it's on the back of the building.

We can't raise the parking lot anyway.

I'm not saying to raise the parking lot to go so from you've got the length of the building.

So you're saying bring the ramp up here and to the side?

Well, you could actually somewhere along the line that it becomes a switchback switch back over the stairs.

Yeah.

Just an option.

Um be considered.

It's not a bad thought where it blends in and then it picks up on the lines of the front of the building and ties the site together.

Right.

There would at least need to be one switchback.

We can't lose any parking, right?

Exactly.

There would be one switchback.

I mean, your original uh ramp had three switchbacks, which was excessive on the front of the building.

Right.

The space that's available is probably very tight for the wood ramp.

And I guess we did look at we did look at costs of both the wood ramp and the lift.

Um because we we did look at this, right?

Um, and you still want, I guess, the option for a stair to exist, right?

So that if there is a very long switch back, that abled bodied people have you know the short circuited path to go up a stair.

Um so it is a little bit longer and it may encroach slightly into that parking area.

You can see we sort of have those turnaround hatched spaces that we could use, but then you'd have problems getting in and out with with the cars.

So the space that's available even for like the the 48 inch switch back would probably take up the entire west facade.

We did look at the cost between the wood construction of a ramp and the lift.

Coincidentally, it's benign, it's it's essentially the same for that.

So I think encumbering that whole side facade with what would essentially look like a massive wood ramp is to our opinion would be much more visible from the I'm not suggesting it was wood.

I was suggesting that it would match what you were doing on the new building so that it would basically um would be on the perimeter of your parking, and it actually from a site point of view would be really nice.

It reads holistically like everything's cohesive.

Something to explore.

Uh you know, I don't want to.

I I think I'm saying we did we did explore it, and I guess we've given the three ramp options, whether it's wood or something else, and now the two lift options.

And we're very comfortable with the rear lift option just because of the way that it can be attached.

I think it's screened, it gives the best option for wheelchairs to be able to get in, and probably still at least in my mind maintains the look of that um west facade too without covering any of it up.

Then let's talk about what materials are using to enclose this lift.

Yep, there it's part of the uh package here.

I mean, if it's written here, I'm just gonna say it at this scale I can't read the text.

Any other board comment?

Actually, if you can do it on that, I had a full size copy either.

See the dilemma.

Yeah.

Well, if I print out the full size copy, then we're all sitting here on the big maps.

Um the elevation amber.

That's the one there.

All the way through up, up, yeah.

Right, one of these work, but they're both the same.

We can use that one.

Yeah, it's a siding material.

Yep.

Uh down just a little bit.

It's on the notes at the elevation, right?

Okay.

Yep.

So we have um smart side fascia trim, smart side corner B, and smart side horizontal side.

And for the non-architects in the room, smart side is a manufacturer.

Wood composite.

Yeah.

It's a wood composite.

Thank you.

What color siding were you thinking of?

Um not sure that you label the uh some type of earth tone color.

I don't think we want to match the brick, but possibly something that matches the doors with the tremendous right.

So something that's matching like our phone.

I see that you have a a door on uh on this new enclosure.

Can you tell us what the material is and if there was any consideration for adding windows so that there's light and it's not just a kind of an enclosed box?

That's a good question.

I don't think that there are windows included in the in the construction of the enclosure that kind of encloses that lift.

Um it probably is possible, I think.

So that there is some light in it.

Obviously, there would be light in the um in the lift enclosure itself, like internal light, but having natural light would be something that we could certainly add to.

Probably facing the rear, I would assume.

So it's the door design there.

Yeah.

What is that?

Like a half light.

Like yep.

Yeah, that's just a door that's framed into that opening.

So it it's it's not part of the equipment for the lift, yeah.

It's presenting as like a half-light.

Yep.

Two panels below.

So that would be the only daylight that would enter that space.

There's probably an opportunity to put a window on that west facade as well.

So maybe there's one that faces the courtyard space and one next to the window to frame it in.

Yes, I would also like that one would explore how that's fenestrated with with this material because it's it's fair it appears to be fairly massive.

There's no baseline.

I mean, one could you know take the coursing of that water table across and around so that it would reduce the imagery of of it being this massive attachment to this building?

I agree with that, yeah.

It it to me feels very uncomfortable in terms of scale, and I recognize that if you're going to do a lift, you you need that width, you need that height, but one could express some of the devices that was used in in fenestrating the building in that without repeating history, but take the course line water table around.

Um looking at the colour.

Or even the window line, yeah.

The silt the sill line too, with where the window would be.

I mean, I would love if if it was even a different material, you know, for a base, that it's a base course.

I mean, it's a very traditional building, it's got a base, it's got a center, and it's got a top.

We have the wood table on our new construction building that maybe we use the same material for something similar.

So something that reduces the scale of what this looks like.

You know, I recognize it's at the back of the building, but you still see it.

It's probably a good idea to keep the wood siding off the ground anyway.

So maybe switching the material.

Well, if if it's a wood composite that probably can sit on the ground, I mean, is it like an well Aztec?

Another manufacturer, but that's not wood based.

Sure.

But generally speaking, you know, we do allow, we have in the past at least eight inches off the ground because otherwise it just rots.

Um, but in this case, I'm I'm looking at, you know, you've got such a strong horizontal line on this building.

Um and it shows up more on the on the rear side, you know, because you just got a massive facade of paneling.

Yeah, and that stone continues along the rear of the existing house too.

So if you if you wrapped it on all three sides, it would kind of follow that same horizon, yeah.

It would help.

The water table element, and then look at where we can place a window to match the existing sill line.

Other uh comments from the board?

I think it looks a lot better than the last proposal, and I like the wood storms.

Thanks for following up on that.

Okay.

Um we close public comments.

Okay.

Any other comments in the board?

I have a question.

Is the fence going to be retained and fixed?

The fence will be removed.

Okay.

Um there is some other historical, well, there is some other items that kind of are off the property, like that stone wall that's gonna remain because that's actually off the property.

But the fence is in disrepair and it kind of overlaps with where we have our parking lot and the sidewalk approach that needs to be reconstructed to that front entrance.

So the intent was to remove it, yeah.

So if you do go with option two, I I assume that the configuration of these walks that are showing in your site plan are gonna be modified because you don't need to take it to what was previously presented with the option one on the side.

Still will reconstruct that sidewalk because there is a leasing office there.

Just to the entry.

Yeah, we won't extend it over to where the concrete pad was, right?

Does it need to be five feet?

Preferably, yes, for I mean snow removal and equipment and some other things.

Five feet's usually the minimum, especially for passing by people.

Similar to that, yeah.

Oh that's more up to date than this.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it sounds like really the two comments are that stone water table and daylight into that enclosure, and then maybe confirming the color.

I know that could confirm the color with with Kate.

Yeah.

If there's windows.

For the window.

Well, I'd like you to bring in whatever the material you're using.

Yeah.

Right, for the new, but whatever the material is to signify a water table or and materials below if it's different from above, based on our comments.

Yeah.

Okay.

We can do that.

So do you want to you want to vote?

Yep.

I'm I and hold.

I don't think we need to hold it.

We don't need to hold it.

Right.

No.

We can condition.

You can condition submit.

Yes.

So may I have a motion on this application?

We can include that in your motion.

All right.

So I'll make a motion to approve the project as submitted with the following conditions.

Condition I'm sorry.

Uh uh, could you specify which option we're talking about?

Okay, thank you.

Two as submitted.

There are several options.

We'll have the lift out front and no time.

Yeah.

Three options.

Um I'll um I'm making the motion to accept option number one.

Excuse me.

Option number two.

No.

I I'm looking at two and I said one apologize.

Option number two, the rear lift addition.

Um with the following conditions that uh the owner will take a look at the scale of the uh the lift addition and by adding a water table and uh foundation component to the structure to reduce the visual scale and to look at adding penetration that picks up on the historic lines of the building that would allow into your daylight to be submitted as cryptone samples of the samples of the of the materials.

Staff can review those particulars instead of it coming before the board may I have a second.

Okay.

Um discussion on the motion all in favor?

All right.

Any opposition?

Any abstentions?

Motion is passed.

Thank you very much.

Completely related.

I'll let actually I'll let Kate introduce it.

Sorry.

Oh, okay.

Thanks for putting the time in on this.

This is this is good.

I know there's some news about it, and everybody's excited about saving it.

Oh Norm has a personal relationship with that.

He told me a story about how he used to have an office building several blocks away that looked down on it, and every morning he'd drink his coffee in his office, and the people that lived here would be drinking coffee in that solarium.

So I don't know if he'll attach it to his house at his home or what is all the languages.

Oh, they really languages.

Really?

I'll have to mention that to him, yeah.

I thought that was commonality.

That's not commonality.

Those are the windows when they re actually replaced the windows of the hallway.

I didn't know that.

So those are the original windows of the whole language.

Well, just as an aside, if if he can repurpose them somehow.

Somebody will want them.

Right.

There's some value.

So that would be great.

Um, so I'll I'll start with so our next piece of business.

Yes, is major site plan review 2531.

Also continuation from last meeting.

Uh major site plan review 201 South uh Krauss Avenue construction of a five-story apartment building.

Um, and it is uh the board's role is to review and comment.

Um, this is of course adjacent to protected site, 1010, East Washington Street.

So wonderful, thank you.

So Amber, if you could just go to the two-dimensional elevations.

There was really three comments for the new construction that we left with.

One was just rectifying that sidewalk to the 1010 house and making sure that it matched whatever option that we had picked.

So that was fairly simple, and we just talked about that.

Um the other was can you go to the two-dimensional elevation?

It might help me with the the front, yeah, right there.

The front facade windows were punched differently in the previous iteration.

They were smaller.

Um and there were some comments from the board to explore two things.

One is making them match more consistently with the side windows and the glazing that's along both side facades.

And then two, the window trim was actually uh a different color as well.

So this iteration that you see, and we can flip down to the renderings um essentially matches the the window size and the punch openings, and then also the trim, um aligning them with the interior spaces where there was a conflict with a wall before as well.

This picture's perfect if you can stop here.

The third one, aside from the windows that you can see, right?

So they're they're trimmed in a similar fashion, and the size of them is similar as well.

The other was that the intent was probably there, but it wasn't shown on the rendering.

We have this ramp and sort of site projection to get access into the back uh front of the building for the elevator lift, etcetera.

But it was to carry that same stone material uh around the water table of the apartment building as well to kind of make it quote.

So those were the the three comments the sidewalk connection to the house on the site plan for the new construction.

Um adjustments to those front facade windows and then addition of that stone water table to match the uh remaining base of the building there.

Is that it?

That's it, yeah.

Okay, anyone wanna come and speak in favor of public.

Oh, it's not we're just commenting.

Oh, I missed that.

Okay.

Um I wish we would have the other elevation, the older one for comparison.

Do you have it?

Just for some who weren't here in in particular the street face.

Oh yeah, because you didn't see it last time, did you?

In terms of those windows.

Oh yeah, that was so it's it's a a good improvement.

They weren't full height windows.

I think that's where we were going with it, right?

And that most of those windows frame the um living space, so having them be a big enough opening to look out of and match the other side windows was where we were going with that.

Yeah, you can see there they're a much smaller shape.

They don't have the fullation to the rest of the building and it built no, and I think maybe that was purposeful, but you know, we went back and um looked at it.

So now and the trim was also white, so they stuck out more too, right?

Um so they're essentially the same windows and same trim.

They're in plan, they're in the living room.

Yes, yeah.

So you would think that you'd want to have much larger openings, and that is which direction?

West.

West, yeah.

So beautiful sunset.

New one looking like that facade to me has great character and balance, and it looks like an older building based on its visual weight and the balance of the penetration.

Yep, and then keeping some of that transparency along the the street facade too, and and carrying that up as a vertical element through that staircase.

That looks white years better than last month's proposal.

Compare and contrast right here to me.

And I appreciate that you carried the stone base all the way down because again, we talked about how that floor actually is sitting much higher than the um, so it's a little bit more of a uh exposed foundation than you would find on a typical building too, so it's certainly appropriate.

Yeah.

But it also speaks to to the user, the user understands why I mean because it's implied that the first floor is up.

Yep, yep, understood.

Yeah, and and that's that same kind of water table feature that we were just talking about about extending to the lift, yeah.

So making that cohesive and reading as one site.

Well thought out.

I think that's uh the major benefits of the company project.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Any other comments since it's not part of public?

It's just uh review and comment.

I didn't see the original version until just now, but this this is evocative of the of the old house.

So I think that's Amber just okay.

That's the original.

So yeah, so this is a vast improvement.

Was that articulated on the rear facide as well, or were those space windows left?

Yep.

Okay.

Positive in the uh comment in the positive?

Absolutely.

Yeah, definitely hold and ticket to the planning commission.

Really?

You don't want to come back and visit us?

Oh, I always want to.

These are the fun ones, you know.

Every three month cycle, I'd say.

Yeah, about that, right?

Yeah, it seems.

Yeah.

No, I appreciate that you listened, you know, and considered some of our comments.

We don't want to be designing, but we like to design either, but we'll listen to you every time.

And when somebody goes to do something with those hall of languages windows, please um reading the address to the ones association.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we would probably like to take one of them, yeah, once our building is done, but I'll keep it somewhere else.

I'll ask Dave if he knows that.

I'm sure Norm does because he's owned the property forever, but um if they could be repurposed, obviously that's that would be amazing.

Yeah.

Well, just as an artifact.

Oh, yeah.

To keep whether it's repurposed or not, but the fact I mean it's pretty kind of cool that you know that they came.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Thank you.

Perfect.

Have a good day.

Thank you.

Okay.

Would you like we still have have more?

Yes, we do.

And this will be new business.

Um so this is this is new business.

Um this is a an uh demolition of a non-landmarked historic property.

It's number 2601, 106 Onondaka Avenue.

Um, so this is for the demolition of the property.

The property is listed in the city's historic uh properties list, which is why uh and it is listed as NR eligible.

Um it is not this property, as we know, yeah.

Um anyway, it's not that particular building.

Um but uh uh the ordinance does give the board the opportunity to uh assess the property and determine whether or not it should be uh put into the local uh protected site designation process.

Um so here to speak on this is and our role is to uh uh uh you will need to uh vote uh have a uh make a decision um one way or the other.

You'll need to vote.

There'll need to be a resolution.

Um the other thing is if I if I may uh Hillary, you're going to recuse yourself from this uh because you wrote the conditions assessment, but you can make comment and uh provide the board with the information that you have on the building as well.

So thank you.

I'm Caitlin Wright with the Greater Syracuse Land Bank.

Do I need to give my address?

I don't know how it's this public hearing.

We're at uh 1941 South Salina Street.

Uh this building uh is in our opinion too far gone to be saved.

Um when we get tax foreclosures, we do a conditions evaluation immediately upon intake.

Um and those that can be renovated, um we try to get listed for sale as quickly as possible, and those that cannot, we try to keep secured.

Um this is one where we actually have tried for some time to sell it and we're not unable to find any buyer that was willing to make the investment necessary to save it.

Um so ultimately last year we decided to pull the plug uh and start down the path towards demolition.

We're using state grant funding for the demolition of this building.

Um so we're working our way through the environmental review process right now and the SHIPO has asked us to do photo documentation and the research contained in Bruce Harvey's report that we provided in your package here.

So we have provided that to the SHIPO.

Um we haven't made any arrangements or had any conversations about providing that to OHA, but we would be happy to provide that to OHA in whatever format they would like.

Um the photos, I'm sure we can get um nice prints from Bruce.

Um the back half of the building has sustained an awful lot of water damage, and the structural framing is pretty completely rotten.

Um so we think it would take a couple hundred thousand dollars of just framing repair to get the building structurally sound before you could even start the renovations, and obviously that's far going to exceed the fair market value of the house once it's done.

Uh we do have uh a vendor who does architectural salvage uh who we've allowed to salvage as much as he can safely take from the interior of the house.

And he's planning over the next few weeks to take whatever he can safely take from the exterior as well, uh, so that it can be re reused um and not sent to the landfill can I just say so um oh uh uh so Bruce Harvey's uh report does provide uh very detailed um history of the property when it was constructed, um, and and the families that that occupied it up until what the 2000s, yeah.

Um so Bruce Harvey's uh report does provide uh very detailed um history of the property when it was constructed um and the families that that occupied it up until what the 2000s some yeah the report on this very well done um kind of surprised we weren't able to find an architect or a builder on this being um well I think you could find an architect it's finding a developer who or buyer oh no no we're talking about original I'm kind of surprised I mean just looking at the photos of the building it's uh superior construction um and the detailing on the house is just it's um and uh it's uh it's sad to see what 15 winters can do to a building that's doesn't have a roof um and uh we this is a everyday Syracuse, but this is uh this is the heartbreaking component that uh we need to deal with is you just said you know if the replacement of it is just doesn't match with uh what you can sell it for, so there's no economic justification, um which we struggle with, but at the same time we have these architectural gems throughout the city that we're losing consistently due to economic conditions, and I'm not sure what the proper route is to try and um capture them if if we don't have the support and the the desire to rehab these properties based on the report I I just feel that in myself that I would I'd have to put it forward for um architectural review um based on just on its appearance.

I I know it's very well written, but we don't have an architect, we're gonna have a builder.

Um but the the history of it and who it's who is built by and the the site I I didn't really I didn't reading it, I was just learned about the Putnam family.

I thought that was a pretty interesting connection.

Um the site and the surrounding area, uh there's just there seems to be a lot of connection to historical figures within Syracuse, tying it to making this justifiable for additional historic awareness and documentation.

Um you're saying that you don't think it's been sufficiently documented.

I I I feel there's a lot of information here.

I just I'm surprised that there's we we can't find an architect based on historical importance of people who built it who lived here who developed the area.

I mean I have to defer to Bruce on that.

We hired him because he's the extra.

I'm just kind of commenting um based on how it presents and its history, you know.

We um out of the four we were meeting two um briefings to for historical uh stature, but I'm kind of struggling to make the connection.

Is the isn't the question whether or not it's landmark eligible?

I'm not sure I understand going like we have documented history and and uh movers and shakers in the community, right?

But we don't have an architect, we don't have a builder, but we you know they do have a building.

Oh my gosh.

I'm you're I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um I mean they've identified we've yeah, so we've we've got a builder, we've got um a family that's you know large manufacturer in the city of Syracuse, so moving towards trying to see the others.

Are you going for the for the secretary of interior standards?

Not with the signative designation criteria or what need to be considered.

Um which are in in the staff report if you wanted to refresh it.

I'm I can't remember off the head at the moment.

It's always you know they should be there.

Okay, yeah, they're there, yeah.

The secretary of the interior standards, did I include the designation criteria?

Yes.

Okay.

We have this the 10 standards.

So criterion designation of protected site and preservation districts, association with persons or historic significance, that's illustrated.

Two, illustrative growth of the city or region, that's illustrated here.

Three in case of structures and bodying distinctive characteristics of type method construction.

That's kind of tough to say.

So number five, uh not looking at the interior on that, but the four case district.

Oh, that's district wide.

So out of the four uh four, I feel like we have a solid uh solid three character out of five, excuse me.

We have a solid three.

So that pushes me to merit that it does have enough architectural significance to push to push it forward to one more status.

Now that doesn't mean it can't be demolished.

It's just to get it documented and get it documented before it goes away.

What additional documentation would you like?

What additional documentation would you like?

I'm just violing it out here right now as conversation to see where else.

I guess I'm questioning the same thing in terms of the documentation that is.

I mean, it pains me to see that something like this would be demolished.

But I also covered all of our bases.

And um moving forward, if it's not demolished, it will continue to deteriorate and probably implode on itself.

Um it is a difficult one, and based on the documentation that I have in hand, I I'm not quite understanding what else you're looking for.

I add just a couple um pieces.

So not only Bruce Harvey looked into the history of this, but David Haas of Syracuse History, I did some research, we couldn't find anything on an architect.

So, you know, Bruce is a pretty professional researcher at this point.

Um and also, you know, the land bank marketed this to try to find a buyer for a long time.

It got picked up by cheap old houses and was marketed nationally at least three times.

So it's been a long process of trying to get somebody to step up and fix this place up, and nobody has.

Thank you.

That's good to know that some other people were looking for that information as well.

And whether or not we know who the architect is or isn't you know, that's part of the criteria you want to know if you if you can.

But based on the age of the building, sometimes there was no architect, but the builder having worked with other architects takes all of that into consideration.

And so, you know, some of these houses that have no identifiable architect actually end up being quite beautiful.

Um, which this probably was at one time.

And whether we know who the architect is doesn't necessarily speak to how architecturally significant the house is.

Or isn't, yeah.

Right.

I'm just so just to remind the board.

So there are just to remind the board, um uh there are the criteria for designation, and then also the question of integrity.

So uh it has to meet at least one of the criteria, and you're not necessarily just well, anyway.

So that's it would have to meet one of the at least one of the criteria as well as that integrity test.

So I guess I'm concerned as you're going through the criteria, speaking to things like the families that lived there and what was there, you know, the fact that we know who lived there doesn't necessarily make it landmark eligible.

Where they have to have a significant role in Syracuse history, and I don't know that this is the most significant story I've ever read about a Syracuse house.

So at this point, someone has to make a how does this work since it's yeah, um, so if the board needs to determine whether or not it wants to uh pursue a landmark designation, in which case if if the board um found that there was enough evidence to push it towards designation, then we would call for a public you would have a call for a public hearing, which would happen at the next uh next session, and then uh it moves on uh from there.

Uh the if the board decides that uh for whatever reason it does not meet the criteria um then uh then uh we should have some resolution to that, so there should be a uh a vote and um and then if there are conditions on that, for example, what happens with the report, um additional documentation, that kind of thing, you can also uh include that in your resolution.

I mean I I agree with Jeb Edgelay.

I think this is it's tragic that this property has been left to fall apart like this.

Um Putnams helped build Syracuse Central School District, the Eccle family is is critically important, the fire department and the manufacturing history, but the house is beyond it's beyond repair.

And I mean by Bruce does the best work.

So this I mean I read this with great interest, but it's unfortunately too far gone.

I just it's depressing.

Agreed.

So making it a landmark is moot, I think, right?

For me.

I would think so.

As sad as that is to say want to make a motion.

What is my motion?

I never make motions correctly, so the motion is that it it does is our it uh let's see.

The mo the the the motion is that um uh the that the board will not move this uh on uh to landmark uh designation process because of structural instability.

Uh the uh and it doesn't meet all of the criteria that doesn't it doesn't meet the criteria, yeah.

So that that is the key is that it doesn't meet the criteria for designation and it's and um although condition and integrity are different, right?

Um so uh it yeah if it allow you to make the I would uh yeah we'll make a motion to what's not not raise this up to landmark status because it does not meet the criteria set forward.

All of the criteria set forward to make it a landmark.

In addition to the structural issues that are well documented in Bruce Harvey's tremendous report, so moved.

Is there a second and I assume I have to vote?

Yeah, but is there a second?

Well, I'll second it.

All in favor?

Any additional comments?

Oh, any additional comment?

Because you have one?

Well no I'm just thinking, you know.

If you push it forward to landmark status that protects what goes on in the future, correct?

It goes with the lot of the uh well once the resources gone, then it then there would be not any once the resources gone.

The landmark would be gone.

The but the landmark would be gone.

So um it's not part of a district.

Yes, you're right.

That at the moment the way that the the zoning works, it's sort of an overlay on the but it would effectively be de-designated at that point once the landmark is gone for the property.

The property is gone, right?

Yeah, the structure is gone.

And then thinking of it in relation to anything that we could get on a district for the West Anadaga, which is just Jason.

I'm just trying to think long term of what is there a detriment, is there is there a loss of integrity that would now further deteriorate the chances of West Anadaga Street having any office direct significant designation the boundaries at least that the national uh that the state preservation office has identified for that West Onondaga Street?

It it stops at the circle.

Uh yeah, the circle.

Yeah.

Hillary, have you been in this house?

Yeah.

Were there any this fire?

Were there any Moravian tiles or anything on that fireplace?

Okay.

We can find you some.

Um so I lose discussion, yeah.

Okay, discussion's over.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposition?

No, no, hold on.

You need all the we need uh everybody all in favor.

Everyone needs a vote.

Aye.

Aye.

Okay.

Any opposition?

Aye.

Any abstentions?

Aye.

Three motion carries.

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's unfortunate, but very simple.

I agree.

And um we do have stabilization funds that we try to use to help houses that are kind of on the tipping point to make push them towards being more financially viable for a potential buyer, but it's typically not you know 250,000 dollars of stabilization that we do before we turn it over to somebody.

So it was just uh a much heavier lift than most of the buildings that we're able to save.

Thank you.

As much as we would like to save everything, I know that we can't save everything.

Okay.

Um so flipping flipping over to the next page of your agenda, your new agenda that is.

Okay.

Um we do have one other I don't believe the applicant is here, so I um I can tell you just quickly it is uh minor site plan review for 71315 East Genesee Street.

This is the uh Parkview Hotel uh window replacement.

The uh property is listed as eligible for the national register within our city's historic properties list, so that uh this is for review and comment from the board.

Uh obviously the applicant is not here.

Um the proposal is to replace all the double hung windows with uh single pane uh inoper, well, inoperable they uh windows uh I believe you I mean we can't speak for the owner, but one of the issues was not wanting the like uh the occupation who stay there to open the windows.

Oh, that's nice.

Wait a minute to replace the double hung windows with a fixed fixed single single pane, not a single pane, not single.

Uh I'm sorry, single single uh uh sash what do I mean?

Just a fixed sash, that's what you're single fixed sash, but it's a probably a double insulated window.

Absolutely, I'm sorry, I'm using the wrong yeah.

Um and there are uh I have provided the what if the the before and afters um there's there's still is there a part view hotel sign on this building right now?

Yeah.

Is there really so remembering what's what are the windows made out of?

What's the touch sheet?

What's this is a full submission?

That that is the if you would like additional information.

Um however, you might want to comment to begin with on the impact of the historic integrity of the property by removing double hung in the are these the original windows?

Trying to look at the whole whole picture of the that I don't we don't know.

Well we don't have enough information.

We have insufficient information to they appear to be wood one over ones currently.

That would be my time.

Yes, that would be my first impulse is um you can have a fixed window that appears to be a double hung window because making them a s uh a full glazed sash fixed really changes the architecture of the building.

Um I'll leave it at that without saying any more because it's interesting because we just did a project 701 Montgomery, the old Hilton Hotel where they had all the fixed glass fixed ping windows, and those just all came out and they replaced them with paired double hungry.

Those are apartments, all right.

Which that turned into apartments, which was originally a ho built as a hotel.

So we have a proposal where we're ripping out original, potentially original double-hung wood windows with fixed units.

Um which changes the whole whole uh whole projection of building architectural as we stated um and this will stay a hotel.

So from right.

So from a user developer point of view, I understand why they want fixed window.

It has a lot to do with energy consumption and their HVAC system.

I I get that.

But changing the architecture so so drastically, because there are lots of windows on this building.

It changes the fenestration of the building, it changes the imagery.

And having keeping the aesthetic of the of the uh window and yet providing a modern window that provides some energy uh efficiency and they're fixed are not contrary to each other.

And so my recommendation is you know that they explore another window.

I and we do need a window survey of the condition of the wood windows that are there.

This this is not a local protected site.

So um so it is more for a view in common, and I think that um your comment will be sufficient like that it's enough to be able to send that back to zoning um and be able to provide that information to the to the um developers and then they can come back with what their uh an alternative proposal might be.

Um assuming that it's either aluminum clad or it's a fiberglass material.

We don't know.

But we need to know.

I think remember it I don't think uh uh yeah uh yeah, there's not enough information here for that yeah, okay.

Is this property also is it national register listed or eligible?

No, it's it's just it's eligible.

Okay, yeah.

So they could in fact get the they may be able to get the tax credits if they got it on the national register, yeah.

If it was a tax credit project, it would go through SHIPO.

Yes.

And SHIPO then would require a window survey and and retention, but but again, you would also then get the tax uh almost uh well, a 50 50 should be 50% tax credit to the should be a local protected site.

I would agree.

I'm surprised that it isn't that it's the board can recommend it forward, moving that forward.

Yeah.

Might I do that?

Um I'll dig.

Well digging in our building is difficult right now.

We are in a real state of disrepair, but um we can put this on the we'll we can start uh thinking about doing that.

Yeah, I mean we're having to be in turret.

To maintain and preserve it.

Well said, Mr.

Romano, well said.

Yeah, I mean, just move it forward.

It's site location in relationship to the fact that 81 is coming down.

This is you know the location that is fairly con uh significant in terms of the development of Syracuse in terms of which side of the highway it really ended up.

Well, it's quite significant as in the entire development of the city of Syracuse, sitting on Foreman Park.

Correct.

Right.

So now here we are.

Expending billions to replace 81 and redevelop that whole district.

This rec visually reconnects to Foreman Park.

So do we formally as a board if all agree that how does that work?

Um the uh the board can be the applicant.

Um it would have to be internal, so there would need to be some time to pull together a local protected site application.

Um but if that was the board's pleasure, then you would be staff staff will get busy on uh pulling that together.

But it would also we'd also need to coordinate that obviously with the owner and let them is that the board pleasure of the board.

Certainly, yeah.

Yes, okay.

All right, yeah.

I mean, this is you know, a great customer.

Yep.

All right.

Um was that the casket viewing building is casket viewing building is just down the road.

Yep.

They got nationally listed.

They got on the national register and are uh been using the tax credits.

Yep.

Is eligible it's eligible.

I'm just trying to think of its immediate neighbors.

Yeah, those are all of them in supporting context of pushing this forward.

And I'm wondering what is underneath that see that the house to the mantle to the right though with a mansor group underneath there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, but really that whole side of the street has a lot of historic properties all the way up to university.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean that's a really wonderful block.

And there's been significant development on Genesee, and there will be significant once the highway comes down as well.

So that might actually be um this building is important.

I think that we should be looking at the uh it just uh do an analysis of the block as well.

I would think so because this is pretty significant key in the in the block at that point.

Okay, yeah.

We got Aith in you, Amber to pick this and call it.

So we enough comment to that.

So the last piece is you're gonna update us.

Oh, and um actually at this point I have I have no further updates on the on on the um on the proposed ordinance.

Um the exemption, yeah.

Um the I will uh uh it is as it was left the the last time we spoke a month ago or so that um the zoning zoning administrator has requested um seeker uh be completed a seeker review for the proposed oh no that uh they it hasn't been received yet.

So it won't uh as soon as that documentation is received, then a 30-day uh period begins.

Um but that has not it has gone no further.

Uh uh it has not arrived yet uh in the zoning office.

Thank you, Amber.

Thank you, Amber.

It's not a complete application until we get the uh until we get the seeker.

Um so uh if there are any if there is any movement on it, I will certainly let you know one way or the other.

Yeah.

So now may I have a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn.

All in favor?

Any abstentions?

Opposition?

Let's go.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Thank you, everybody.

Oh, midday is good, afterwards good, like if you want to come through that.

All right, it's nice for you to get out and see something.

Yes, okay, perfect.

Well, you you brings you know, you bring the history and one of the