We're gonna we have a committee meeting here today with Department of Code Enforcement.

This is just a very general generic meeting that we've asked for to ask for an update from uh Michael and Jake as to what's going on with codes and where they are currently.

I'm joined by Counselor Jones Rousser, Counselor Moore, Councillor Nave, Counselor Caldwell, President Paniagua, Michael Collins, and Jake Dish.

So I'm going to give you two the floor and go ahead and just kind of give us a big overall, and I'm sure we'll have lots of questions.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

I'll I'll start off and turn it immediately over to uh Deputy Commissioner Jake Dishhaw.

Uh but uh one just we are uh this is what we spend all of our time doing uh in so an opportunity to come together and share with you a lot of the successes uh that uh that we've had uh and some of the challenges uh in front of us.

Uh really just appreciate the opportunity.

Uh likewise, and good morning to you all.

Uh, as Michael said, Deputy Commissioner of Code Enforcement and Zoning Administration, Jake Dish.

Uh, I'm going to do a brief kind of introduction of just kind of high overarching um, you know, what code enforcement's all about, what our team is, and how we function, and we can get into details after that.

But uh, one thing, and I think I've talked to many of you who have been through budget hearings or committee meetings with me before, but um maybe this isn't unique, but it matters to me because this has been my life, uh, my professional life anyway.

I've been doing this since I was in high school, part-time throughout college, and then full-time since.

Um, it's something I'm I'm gonna spend my entire career doing code enforcement, which is maybe a bit unique, and maybe doesn't matter to some of you, but uh to me it does.

Um so today I'm here to tell you a little bit about why I think code enforcement is the lifeline to a better city.

Um not only I firmly believe that for our city here in Syracuse, but but nationally after experiencing um meeting with multiple cities and other jurisdictions, like we we just do a lot of really good things here.

Um and it's much more than just traditional code enforcement, it's not just tall grass, litter, abandoned cars.

Like our teams are out on the streets every day.

Um, and I'll label them this.

Uh, this is me calling them this.

Like, I believe they're unsung heroes of our community.

Um, I truly believe that.

They are the lifeline uh to uh protecting community safety and and building resiliency citywide every day.

Something happens, our team is there.

We we're our we are the third traditional or untraditional first responder.

I'll put us right up there with police and fire.

Something happens, like our team is there dealing with it most of the time cleaning up what happened, but um, and we're much more than just code enforcement on paper, like pretty much most city departments are involved with our efforts.

Um we've been super intentional about being collaborative with multiple departments, which sounds pretty easy, but I I can tell you it's not an easy feat, and a lot of cities don't have what we have here with collaboration.

So we have partnered with departments such as fire prevention, corporation council, Syracuse Police, Public Works, Skilled Trade, Engineering, BAA, like all this is part of our ecosystem of how code enforcement functions and how we make an impact on our city and our residents.

Um I brought a book here because literally you could say we wrote the book on it.

Um this is a book that tells it's it's made to tell cities how to operate strategic code enforcement program, and we're not only on the cover, but featured on multiple pages throughout.

And this is used nationally, it just came out a few months ago on how to do code enforcement.

Um I don't bring that just to boast about our team, but I I bring it up to recognize that we have something pretty special here in the way I think we operate our code enforcement program that a lot of cities envy.

Um enough on that, but I do want to tell you just a little bit about our team.

So it includes code enforcement proper, but it also includes the central permit office.

It also includes the Lad Hazard Control Office and the Office of Zoning Administration.

We enforce things like state and local building codes, general city ordinances, we issue business licenses, we ticket illegal businesses, we deal with dumping, we deal with administering stormwater and floodplain regulations, we do zoning enforcement administration, and a lot more.

Um I mentioned the collaboration earlier because a lot of our disciplines overlap with other city departments.

And they should, because that's when we become most effective in how we deal with problem solving.

And what we've kind of become is like an expert leader in congregating these resources citywide to deal with these complex issues.

So problems like housing vulnerability, nuisance abatement, crime prevention through environmental design, large-scale demolitions of buildings that are falling over and that remain you know standing in and blight in our neighborhoods, um, illegal spiking cannabis and tobacco, health-related issues that impact our children and our community.

Umlawful and unruly businesses.

Um code enforcement is there along the way dealing with with all of that.

Um what I want to talk about next is why I feel like code enforcement is worth investing in and continue to investing in the way that we have been, and possibly even more investment.

But I think we are the answer to strategizing to ensure that we provide public safety and stability uh stabilize public uh or private property values, but also economic growth.

So I mentioned public safety, and I don't think anybody from the police department's here right now, but in the last few years, a couple year and a half, we've closed almost 50 unruly businesses and illegal occupancies.

A lot of them corner stores, um, but not all of them.

Um the impact that that has had on our community, you you can't even you can't even put a data valuation on it, but the chief of police has said out loud to me, you've no idea the amount of crime reduction that code enforcement has been uh responsible for with this work that you've been doing.

Um not sure how many code enforcement offices nationally can say that, but we can say that here because we have that relationship and we show value to each other.

Um, and likewise, they can call us and turn around for any needs that they have.

And again, uh I bring this up because a lot of cities don't have that.

And I know this because we engage with other cities, we go to conferences, we talk to other people nationally, like they don't have the collaboration that we have, and that's a big part of why we're being featured in national publications across the country on how to do this the right way.

Um we've set records on the number of permits being issued, not only on volume of number, but permit valuation.

We set another record um this year on permit valuation dollars.

That means the amount of construction, it's the most in my lifetime.

Um, I can confidently say that.

You look outside, there's cranes everywhere, there's activity happening.

Um, with that comes revenue.

Um code enforcement is a revenue generating department.

Um our numbers have looked really good the last couple years, and we're projecting to almost be uh almost offset what we spend.

Um we're projecting a revenue uh over five million, and that's about what our operating budget is, you know, high end of 5.8 million last year, I think.

Um but all that work doesn't just happen unless we have the people and the resources and the tools to provide that service to people.

We've gone fully digital.

Something that we started working on back in 2018 and permitting, is now we're we're we've done a complete digital transformation while maintaining day-to-day business.

We didn't consult it, we we didn't hire a firm to come in and do it for us.

We did it.

Um and and I don't just say code enforcement, it was a number of departments, IT, digital services, um, of course, the members of our team that were kind of driving the project management of it, but we've gone fully digital.

When I it wasn't that long ago that we only took paper checks and money orders and paper submissions of permits.

It was in the last administration.

Now you can go online 24 hours a day, seven days a week, submit what you need to do to start doing your business with zoning and permitting and pay online.

It's the world we live in.

People demand um on-demand services 24-7.

You get it at fast food restaurants, you get it at airports now, you that's what people demand.

And I think the council, because you've invested in allow us to do some of this and the software that we're using and the people that we have, um, it's important.

Um people used to have to fight parking to come downtown, stand in line, fight a lunch hour line, or get there, rate it right when we open or rate right when we close.

Um, all that is happening behind the scenes and project managing this stuff in a digital format now.

Um, and it might not sound like a big feat, but it's it's one of the greatest things that I've accomplished in my in my career, and uh, hats off to our team that has done that.

Oh, Jay, um actually one quick question.

How many how many staff do you oversee in the codes?

With all the you broke it down to each department.

We are somewhere uh around 75, I believe.

And again, that includes um permits, code enforcement, um, zoning.

So all of our inspectors, it includes permit reviewers, um, admin staff, uh supervisors.

Um we have around 35 uh state certified code officers.

Um that includes management like myself, um, director Ryan Sheel, um, and our deputy director and our assistant directors as well.

And we also uh on the data team in NBD, there's there is one person that's dedicated uh through the code's budget to uh data, which it's that position that really is allows us to pull together the information that we need to understand where we need to target um uh target our our resources and our work.

So you have a staff also an MBD that helps collaborate with your um the service.

It's positioned in NBD, but it's on the code's budget.

So yeah, code enforcement is a division um of the department of neighborhood and business development.

We're the largest division.

Um for the for good and right reasons, like the problems and challenges that we're facing out there on the streets.

Um, you know, these are what our neighbors and constituents ask for, the people that vote for you.

Um, these are the things that want that impact their livelihood, quality of life.

Um, I mentioned the store closures.

I want to hit some.

We've done a big revamp on certificate of use, which is a business license.

Again, the law department brought 40 plus non-compliant businesses and stores ordered closure with code enforcement.

Actually, as of as of uh late last week, that number is closer to 50 now because we did a number of them on was that Friday?

Thursday.

Last Thursday, we did another handful of them.

Um but we've done this successfully with the resources we have and teaming with everybody that's working on this from law, police, fire, where we've been successful in defending um nearly nearly a dozen Article 78s from owners that have tried to sue us and say that we didn't follow procedure, we're not following law.

We've been undefeated with multiple judges in responding to those.

So I'm getting this feeling like somebody said you didn't do you guys, we I'm I mean, I know you guys are doing a great job.

So you're explaining to us like I feel like we're almost at an attorney in a defense, like we're doing this.

I think I think you guys do a great job.

Is it something?

Are you trying to put more positions in uh codes department?

Well, I think what I'm trying to do is is show the council that the value that we add and what we bring to the city, and that maybe some of you aren't aware about.

Um you know, some of the things that we're responsible for.

Um, I don't know that everybody's aware that that's the work that we're involved with.

But yeah, I mean, certainly, uh I could definitely use more resources.

I'm not gonna sit here and say I couldn't.

If I had it at my disposal, I could definitely put it to good use.

So to jump on what I what I think counselor called what she just said.

So my biggest question is where are you falling?

Like I know all your successes because I call one of you 10 times a week to say, like, go to Glen Cove and fix that portion.

We use it a phone.

And you answer the phone, you pick it up, and you are you are responsive to us.

But I want to know from your perspective, where do you think you're falling short?

If we had unlimited money and unlimited resources, what are you not doing that you could be doing that could make our jobs easier and our constituents say, okay, that house on the corner has looked like garbage for a year.

Let's make it happen faster.

So I want to know what you need.

And I want to jump on the end of that question.

You're at a five million dollar revenue, which is almost break-even with your essentially five million dollar expenses budget.

What would get us to a seven million dollar revenue and a five million dollar expenses budget or somewhere around those that what would get us above that line?

So I'm gonna put it into a couple other a couple of buckets.

So it starts with enforcement.

Um I'm a firm believer that we need boots on the ground uh identifying these problems, but then generating casework from it.

We can't fix a problem that we're not aware of or that we're not dealing with on the ground and that we haven't issued violations for.

It starts there.

Um but on the back end, and and this is where it becomes more than just investing in code enforcement is code enforcement is a legal process.

We have to, similar to police, we have to provide due process.

We have to make sure that we have documentation, we have proof that we followed uh the right processes in in order to set up enforcement success on the back end, and that's where things like BAA and the law department are critical.

A lot of times we either have to abate it ourselves, an issue, which costs money, and sometimes takes warrants, which we need lawyers for, or other times it's taking bad actors to court, whether that's in city housing court or in state supreme court most of the time for these larger problems that we've seen the last couple of years.

Um, and even with that, it's not a guarantee that the problem gets fixed.

We we get judgments sometimes.

It doesn't fix a violation.

Uh a judge can issue an order for you know, a judgment for the maximum amount that we've asked for.

And that in fact, in 2025, 2026, uh, we've already almost to 15 million in judgments with law department.

Um now, that doesn't mean we're gonna collect all 15 million dollars of that, but those are the things that we can control.

Investing in the things that we can control is what will make a difference, and that's people out inspecting these properties, but then resources citywide to defend our actions in court, but also to be more proactive and going after bad actors, and thirdly, investing in monies and funds that can help us uh support people that need help with their property.

So and a lot of the stuff I'm talking about with code enforcement action is against landlords, by the way.

Okay, I mean homeowners sometimes they have problems with their homes too, but we try to give them the resources, you know, connect them with home headquarters on you know, low interest or zero interest loans.

So I'm talking about the people that make money off our residents.

60 plus percent of our city are renters.

It's what would you need?

It's a vulnerable group.

What do you need, Jay?

So can I just add a couple of ways to qualify just a little bit?

So when you think about because it and to to the your question, you know, we our our work is both reactive and proactive.

And so when you look at the proactive work, a lot of it sits within the the permitting and zoning, and that's where a lot of the revenue generation comes from.

Um our zoning team has been working shorthanded.

Um, the the last planning commission meeting, we had to uh ask security to not have the building alarm go off at 10 o'clock.

It was a four-hour meeting.

Um so the that team is doing amazing work, but they're running racket at this point.

Um permitting similar.

I didn't mean it at all.

No, good.

But I wanted to say thank you.

I've understood the work you do.

I I understand the work that you do, the impatience of some people, but what you did at 1628 North Salina Street, we knew the problems were there for months.

People from Antique Exchange were calling me.

There was problems.

I know what was going on.

People were telling me, and I forwarded all that information to your department center police.

And I talked to Mr.

Pistori this morning, and he's very pleased.

He understands the process.

There's legal activity.

Well, you did with Bonda Bain, thank you.

Uh I'm Burning Av, thank you.

There is a lot that has been done.

I got a lot of complaints, but I tell people, the more you tell me, the more I forward more of that evidence.

And what your departments did last fall on Catherine Street, I had a lot of complaints.

And because of your efforts, they had a SPD and the special uh unifs, including state police.

People are now saying it's quieter, we can live there because we shut down these illegal activities.

And I would say, be patient, they have to build a case, but it's not easy, it's hard because you're all going in dangerous situations, and I appreciate all you do.

So the boots on the ground that you speak of, if we so when you get a call from one of us to send you to Sline the Street, how many of how many of those positions do you have to actually send somebody to those places?

A lot of times a lot of the property maintenance issues that are reported are housing inspector positions that are going out to do that.

So uh we have uh 14 of those um that are deployed strategically in catchment areas.

When I when I took over as director, we were we were deployed the same as our uh leaf debris and construction debris pickup by quadrant.

It made no sense.

We had equal amount in every quadrant.

Well, what we did, what our data team did in MVD is took historical data and created nine specific regional territories in the city based on code enforcement work and need.

So, for example, a territory on the near west side was a lot smaller than you know, Meadowbrook in the university area because of you know, basically the need.

Um, so that and it's it's balanced our caseloads too.

Um, but but that's how we're deployed.

And um, those are the people that are typically dealing with property maintenance issues that are reported.

Um, and their caseloads are big.

Uh they're issuing hundreds to thousands of violations a year.

Um, that not only do we have to do the front end work on, we have to chase the the back end.

So they're either getting BAA tickets or they're being sent to our law department for enforcement.

Whether that means we take them to city court, we take them to state supreme court, um, whether we get strategic and ask for a receiver, or we do some other method of emergency repair program, like it's we're in the business of trying to problem solve uh and and get a case closed for compliance.

So, and this might be hard to quantify, so just so the public understands those 14 inspectors that you have out there.

Are they reactive to calls that you get for complaints, or do you have inspectors that are driving around the city and if they spot something, they because I think some people think that you have inspectors driving around in city vehicles that see a house where the porch is falling off, they write it down, they go back and they try to take care of it.

Is that what's happening?

Like how do we quantify how much of that comes from you and how much of it comes from us or neighborhood complaints?

50-50.

I mean, a lot of it is we do get a lot of complaints called in by neighbors, um counselors, tenants, counselors, other politicians like it happens.

Like I'm just being honest.

Um we want it that way.

I I can't deal with a problem that I don't know about.

There's 40,000 parcels in the city.

Like I can't keep track of all that.

We're pretty good at it, but like, you know, and things change.

It could be fine today, and something happens tomorrow, right?

Um, that's what we see.

But um, yeah, I mean our in our catchments, these inspectors are traveling around and throughout their day, they are proactively issuing violations.

Like our model of how we built our code enforcement program is to be strategic, is to be proactive, is to be data-based.

Um, but we are out there working on checking things proactively, but we also have active programs that do a lot of this for us.

Rental registers.

Are they driving their own cars?

They're driving, yeah, they're driving their own cars, own cars.

Marked in any way?

No.

Because they're private property.

So these are vehicles that inspectors own.

They're not city property.

Um, they get a car allowance annually.

It hasn't changed in how many years?

It hasn't changed in my in 25 years.

So we'll have to inspect my property and you knock on my door, you're not in a marked city vehicle, you're just somebody in your Subaru.

Yes.

Uh yeah.

And so um the uh in the capital improvement uh budget this year is the um uh a request to be able to uh buy a fleet of cars for code enforcement so that when they show up, they're not having to first deal with uh the question of hey, who are you?

Why wouldn't we just why wouldn't we just be buy those like car decals where they can like magnets, they can just put them on every day.

So I can I can answer that.

It's something that we've tried to do in the past, but inspectors are union employees, and it became a union issue that we couldn't make somebody put a city decal no, not a decal, a magnet.

I know, yes, yeah, we had them.

We bought them.

We uh and it's something that we tried to do.

But to Michael's point, uh and this is something I push for, and it's not even just for vehicles, but like we we couldn't even give people a shirt like this or a jacket to go out into the field with a couple of years ago.

I mean, I've started to supply them with jackets, with vests, with I mean things with city official logos on them, right?

They do have an ID, and they do have an ID badge, yeah.

They do, but it's it's small and it's you know, um easy to replicate, I guess, too.

That's another thing.

Um let me go ahead, guys.

Real quick, I'll uh hold that.

Um but also like cell phones.

We had we had flip phones a couple years ago.

We we didn't even we couldn't even give our team, and again, this is something that the the senior staff and the mayor's office and the councils have helped invest in, but like they now carry iPhones.

Um it seems small, but like in the world we live in, like we do a lot of texting, a lot of uh a lot of emailing, like in your hand, like uh it's basically a mini computer nowadays.

Like our inspectors didn't even have these things a few years ago, and I think we're the last fully field-based staff, I think, in the city that isn't driving a city vehicle.

So, like it is something that we're I've been pushing on, and the administration has recognized that, and senior staff in the mayor's office are supportive of to me.

It sounds like I'm not don't not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like the council is supportive of that too.

Um, and and it's what every municipality statewide and nationwide does.

Like they put their code enforcement in, they make them recognizable in the field by you know, gear, um, and and vehicles and tools that they use.

That's important.

So you speak the the I just wanted to run um real quickly, the revenue generators for the department, and you've mentioned permits, a judgments, whatever you can turn around.

Uh rental registry, we didn't touch on, but that's part of you, right?

And the violations for non-compliance, that's another revenue generator, and whatever the BAA is probably able to turn around for you.

Is there anything else that I'm we should see there?

Couple things, yeah.

So we are going to add, so you know that we took over zoning administration from the county uh with rezone in 2023, done a lot of work on that, building our own staff, administering that, getting that set up, um, building out a new code.

What we haven't done, and what we we expect to bring to you um sometime in alignment with the new fiscal year in July is a fee structure for zoning.

Right now, there's no fees for zoning applications.

Actually, correct myself, there's one small fee for our variance.

That's it.

There's no major site plan review, resubdivision.

All the hard, all the work, the hours and hours of staff work going into that, we don't charge anything for it.

So that's something that we're going to add.

We're also we've worked with API to look at our permit fee structure for building permits because we haven't adjusted that since 1996.

Well, I'll say that um I think we're always looking at ways that we can milk our residents and not not say to milk them, but there's always these additional fees that have to be paid.

Um for permits, you mean permits, um, yeah, um, different different factors.

However, like you're saying, like you're gonna come up with a new fee schedule for all these other items, and there's some items that are already um the books that we need to relook at.

Um, for instance, like minor site repairs or minor site um issues, uh, you're requiring individuals to have a um a uh what is the full layout?

Um architectural architectural um renderings where if I'm gonna be doing $300 worth of work to the exterior of my property, why do I need to pay $1,500 to an architect?

I well, I'd love to get specifics on that, but I I want to be clear like this isn't Jake Dish's rules on what's required.

Um there are state laws on this stuff that we have to follow that if if we were Rochester, Buffalo, Albany, like, and I don't know that we can be less restrictive than the state, but that's something we can we can talk about.

But um what I will say is our residential homeowners, like we already have severely I don't want to say discounted, but it's it's less expensive for a homeowner and our tax base homeowners that live here and work in their properties to make improvements.

Like we don't wanna be, we don't want to stymie that people that want to do driveway repairs, fences, you know, new deck, repair a porch, put a roof on, like that stuff is easily accessible online and on demand.

And to me, I mean it hasn't, I was 11 years old when that fee structure was adopted.

That was a long time ago.

Yeah, right?

It's like dog years.

So when's the last time we looked at when's the last time we looked or changed the punitive fees for people that are bad actors?

Well, that's another thing I want to talk about is BAA.

Uh council president uh made it uh comment about that we need to adjust our BA fines, like they they need to be significantly higher than what we're hitting people with, especially on on uh initial offenses.

And may I remind you like you don't get a fee, just you know, that's the second date you're in violation.

You get a notice of violation, which code enforcement legal process, I mentioned earlier, notice of violation, comply by date.

After that, our our team, our inspectors, they're case managing it, they're calling you, they're emailing you, they're stopping by the property, they're trying to get progress.

If if people did what they were supposed to do, we could have five people on staff.

We wouldn't even need code enforcement if people did what they were supposed to do.

Like the laws on their books are inherent that you're supposed to take care of your property.

But sadly, that's not the world we live in.

Um, but we follow that process, then we send a legal warning letter.

It is a harshly firmly written letter to try to get people to comply.

After that, you then get a BA ticket, and you still have an opportunity to respond and fix your violations, and you have an opportunity to go before third-party administrative law judge and plead your case.

And same thing, we have to go to those hearings all the time, submit written evidence and support how and why we feel like somebody deserves uh punitive uh you know administrative ticket like that.

But what we've seen is a jump in compliance with BA.

And I want to talk about fees for a minute because we're about to do, we've collected almost half a million dollars in BA revenue this fiscal year, and we're about to roll over another half million.

So you asked me earlier, uh, counselor about what I what it would take to kind of up that revenue.

Well, we're gonna have to we need resources to generate that.

BA tickets don't BA tickets can't get issued without code violations.

And then after code violations, guess who writes the tickets?

Codes inspectors.

They're the ones that generate all this.

I just reported to you, we're about to collect a million dollars that we did not collect in the fiscal year before based on that work.

You want to invest in something, like there's something to invest in.

Well, that's because we actually last year we changed the BAA to um for them to be able to roll it on to taxes.

So that could be the reason why you're seeing that that jump in um in collections, and so I think we should first have a chance to look at how that's working um before we continue to raise prices.

That's just me.

Oh, the um really two things BAA and then also there's the software that we're using with BAA.

It goes on the house or goes on the person.

Violations are issued to property owners responsible for upkeep and maintenance.

So if you own a house, if it's in your name, it's you.

If it's in an LLC, it's the LLC.

If it's multiple owners, then they're all getting it.

Well, if it if a person has, say we the building across the street had all these violations, right?

And they went to sell it.

Who's how would they how would we collect the funds?

Well, if if the buying uh, if the buyer has good representation legally, that lawyer is gonna look up all outstanding fines and fees on the property.

That's gonna include water, anything else that could impact uh the carryover to the new owner.

They're gonna go to the city payment center and they're gonna try to work that into that closing.

It doesn't always happen because you don't have to do that, but a good lawyer and a good buyer, like they're gonna do their due diligence on that, and they're gonna make sure that those are collected.

A lot of times we do collect a lot of revenue from that when that happens because nobody wants to buy it, you know, they want clean hands when they transfer something into their name.

Um the fines still stay on, so it stays on the property.

Yeah, on the property, yeah, it doesn't matter.

They have to do it.

That's what we need to do it.

So they're initially issued to the owner, but they stay on the property.

Okay.

That was my question.

I was like, when things are transferred, how why aren't they staying on that person to collect the fee instead of the house?

And that's where they're our ability to that we now have uh to do the rollover to the taxes that increases our uh our capture uh on those fines.

So as a buyer, if you're gonna inherent violations, like you're gonna want those settled somehow, right?

Absolutely.

If they know about them, right?

If they did their research, the other thing, our um our IP, I mean our uh our software service versus what we were using versus now.

How is that working?

It's just I mean, you are you're talking about for permitting or code enforcement?

Oh Camino.

So communos are the permitting side.

Yeah.

So Camino is for permitting only right now.

Code enforcement's in IPS.

So by law, by state law, we have to have a system of record for code enforcement that handles complaints on how we issue notices of violation, uh, how we document cases, whether that's internal case notes, photos, videos, um, copies of everything that we've sent out.

Um Camino is a permit software, and it's doing uh permit administration and reviews and payments.

Um, and it it's a it's accessible on the front end.

Everybody can go online at any time on your phone, on your tablet, on your uh computer at home, laptop, whatever it is, go on and apply to try to do your business.

Code enforcement is still in IPS, and we're looking to identify new software um to replace that.

It needs it.

Here's the best way to think about it.

IPS is a 15-year-old used car clunker right now, and we don't have any mechanics that can service it to the uh you know the way we need it.

Camino is more of like a brand new lease.

It continues to get free maintenance included with it, and it's continually updated, and every three years you got a brand new car.

That's the best way I can explain the difference between the two softwares, and it's somewhere we need to get there with code enforcement.

We're not there yet.

Um, but we've made strides in a lot of areas with licensing and permitting, um, plan review, all that's digital.

Um code enforcement remains in the older system.

Can I ask about the collection on the judgments?

Sure.

So what is our issue in terms of collections?

Is it that we don't have collections sprayable or I'm gonna let uh so Rob Carpenter Assistant Corporation Counsel works uh directly with our code enforcement team, he can better answer that than I can.

Right.

So to answer your question, Council, we have somebody in the law department who handles collections.

Uh he tries to take the collect uh judgments we have and find uh bank accounts for the LLCs, and they're mostly owned by LLCs to try to find bank accounts that um are open so that we can um freeze those accounts and try to uh collect money from that.

But normally it's it's difficult to collect judgments largely because uh many times these LLCs will be single asset LLCs that don't have much um actually behind them, so it's difficult um to collect and um that otherwise you just have to uh work your way through a web of you know financial accounts that uh then we have to have a process for judgment collection on that.

Mr.

Carpenter, do we the all these departments work closely with uh the finance department department of assessment?

Because if I find that when there's a lot of abandoned housing that we're having right now, and they'll go and they'll board it up.

We got SPD, turns out the property owner is way, way behind in their taxes.

And oh that should be one of the the issues that we bought up houses we look that the department assessment department of finance is aware of the huge bad taxes where they even paid the three four years that should be a means where maybe the law department that can properly seize these illegal seize these properties immediately immediately sure counsel and and there is a process for tax seizers I'm not personally involved in that so I I don't quite know the process but I believe there is a process for seizing tax link properties and I believe all departments should work much closer.

So I call about an issue on court street uh assessment is aware of it so I don't have to call assessment and I do look up the tax well this person doesn't live there has not lived there for years and look at the back taxes so right there is when the department assessment should be working with colds and with the law department at that point.

And so counselor I can I can add in that that that is what happens.

So we have a point person Cainlin Hubbard within the the neighborhood team the neighborhood planning team that make sure that we've we've got all of that information together uh works closely with a a a different uh de uh division in the law department um but to your point about the boarding up uh those the the the cost of boarding up gets added on uh uh to the fines against the property okay and handle in the way that we've discussed earlier if I can just go back for a second so I know that the state and the federal government are looking to unmask LLCs in terms of property holders is there any way that we add in either a personal guarantor in some way shape or form with tax payments or something along those lines that makes that easier for us.

I'd have to do some legal research on that.

I mean I know a lot of our applications we try to uh encourage businesses to not only if they're in LLC uh to identify the LC name but to identify all partners and shareholders so we know exactly um who's involved in LLC but the problem is comparing that now too correct uh I believe there is state legislation about um uh changing what you have to give to the state so you have to identify shareholders because historically you you didn't have to identify that I think there is but I'm not sure if that's been passed yet it's definitely been discussed not yet okay so what percent of these judgments do we actually accomplish in let's say a year um I I'd have to check on that I don't know or that'd be interesting to know yeah so um to the point of resources so everything that um assistant corporate council uh carpenter just mentioned it's resource intense on the corporation council side um when you look at what we had a uh large building last year that we had a demolish and so the research was done that did then name not just the LLC but we were able to name individual and in um in related businesses which increases our ability to uh to collect on the back end that's work intensive uh can you send us that information what you what you're sure I could ask our collection if you want to put that together for you I'd also like to know what our options are if we cannot collect on a debt it's not useful for us to have it is there any way for us to sell that debt I understand why we're putting it onto taxes in terms of the ability to not have vacant and disruptive properties in the city of Syracuse forevermore but we're also in again a legal process that takes a lot of resources and the city needs to have an exit strategy.

We could look at yeah I'd have to do research on whether we could sell the debt so right now the judgment acts as a lien on the property so it'd be very difficult in most instances to sell the property um without clearing that debt so that is something that um judgments last a long time so but but to your point yeah yes other than moving properties it's it's difficult for us to force a collection on that if and under the current laws we have can you talk a little bit but do you want to come more thing while Rob's up at the mic um another thing that we do strategically and corporate counsel is really good at is um instead of just you know asking for the highest fine possible before a court um a lot of times we we want problems addressed right we want things fixed um and we'll go into we'll go we'll we'll do settlement agreements or MOUs on you know paying maybe a reduced fine but you got to fix the the issue right and Rob maybe talk a little bit about how that's negotiated um and worked out sure so um you know most recently over the past summer we did this a lot with uh stores that were caught selling uh cannabis without a license and didn't have a track record of other um illegal problems at the place at the store so we would um typically make them an offer to say that instead of going after you legally for this if you promise to stop selling the cannabis and pay a fine um we'll let you continue to operate um under you know under that promise and if you get caught again we're going to then uh move to shut you down and that um stores responded pretty positively that uh we made that offer six or seven times and everybody took it um we were able to collect I'd say five or six thousand dollars uh per store on that um as far as co-enforcement cases we also um we typically ask in our petitions for uh fines at a hundred dollars per day uh per day past the violation a comply by date uh when we uh settle those cases if the store owner uh I mean not if the property owner uh promises to uh promptly correct those violations will uh be more receptive to uh settling uh at less than a hundred dollars per day kit can I ask you a question how long is it generally take us like Jake I called you a while ago about the House on Hillview

Um as far as co-enforcement cases, we also um we typically ask in our petitions for uh fines at a hundred dollars per day uh per day past the violation, a comply by date uh when we uh settle those cases if the store owner uh not if the property owner uh promises to uh promptly correct those violations will uh be more receptive to uh settling uh at less than 100 per day.

Can I ask you a question?

How long is it generally take us?

Like Jake, I called you a while ago about the house on Hillview, and you guys went and boarded it up.

They've taken the boards down, we have squatters in there again.

How long does it take for us to seize a property like that where the owner has abandoned the property and now we have a problem in a neighborhood that's been stable that's gonna go downhill if this continues?

Sure.

So if we wanted to um seize a property for abandonment um under residential property, there's a specific provision in state law that we can use to do that.

Uh we have to give a lot of notice uh both to the property owner and to any lienholders.

So if there's a mortgage on it, we have to tell them exactly what we're doing.

And I think we have to give them 45 or 60 days uh notice just to say like this is what we're gonna do before we file a lawsuit, then we would have to file a lawsuit.

Um it could take, I'd say about 60 more days to get an initial court appearance.

Um, if they have uh defenses are an answer, it it could take yeah you know a few months more.

So it we're probably looking at optimistically at least six to eight months, and that's if everything's going really smoothly for us.

So sometimes we're looking at probably losing houses, right?

Because what has been seems like a um trend in our city is that when people go in there and start to squatters start to live there, we've seen a lot of fires in some of these houses.

So there's no way we can speed up any part of this process to stop some of that from happening because we're losing more house, like this house is a decent house.

Well, it was, it's not so much anymore.

But it's probably gonna be a teardown because the water pipes broke and flooded the basement and icicles were in there and it was a mess.

And it's like, so it's probably gonna be a teardown rather than a save.

Uh so from a legal perspective, uh, there's just on an abandonment perspective, there's state laws that require us to give us very specific due process uh, you know, um notices to the property owners.

So from a legal perspective, it would be difficult to fast-track that.

Uh the only other option I could think of was would be more frequent board-ups, but of course that's a draw in co-enforcement.

Uh, yeah, well, ideally, a pro a property like that is gonna have exterior violations most of the time.

And a lot of times we'll have that cited, and sometimes those properties, you know, they get enough fines or penalties, or if they're not paying their taxes, they become eligible for foreclosure, right?

Through the land bank.

So, you know, I look at I see uh Camone in the in the room here.

Um, you know, when Camone is bringing those properties before you, like some of those, not all of them, right?

Like some of them are properties like that that we could foreclose on and transfer to the land bank, and they can try to regenerate those.

I mean, since COVID, I think we've seen a number of properties that initially I thought we'd never see investment in that we're starting to see investors buy and put it put money into them because our you know, our values are for our city are pretty pretty good right now.

Uh so people are investing when they wouldn't a few years ago in some of these homes to fix up, but um, and it's not unique to Syracuse, right?

Anybody saw the news over the weekend?

Baldwinsville had a large mansion that was vacant, fire, right?

Like this stuff is happening all over the place, not just here.

Yeah, um, but yeah, uh more investment into the process on foreclosures and and legal proceedings.

And you know, we're not the only ones that look at vacants, code enforcement fire department looks at vacants too.

Sure.

When when their firehouses aren't busy on calls, they're out looking at these things, not only because of vacancy, but what's gonna happen if I get a fire call here?

Do we go inside?

Do we put it as a do not owner because there's a collapse floor or there's issues with going inside?

So they want to know what they're responding to if they get a call to one of these.

Um we're constantly chasing these down.

I mean, we board it up, somebody gets in the next day.

Um it's it's an issue.

When you say that you're looking at the vacants, because I know we have the vacant rental registration.

So um is it like when you get a call, you're going there, or is there a shift?

Yeah, that's the way that's a good thing.

You know, the housing inspectors I explained.

Yeah, you know, the regional territories I explained earlier with the 14 inspectors, they're out checking all vacant lots and vacant houses in their in their territory every every couple weeks.

And that creates we spend almost 400,000 on vacant grass mowing.

Well, actually, we had to reduce that last year, but they go out and they check this stuff for board ups needed, trash getting cleaned up or dumping and grass mowing, and all that gets ticketed, and we provide that service, and it gets billed back to the owner at a 15% surcharge.

But what's unique about this is still nearly two-thirds of our vacant properties are tax current.

Yeah.

So the more services we put on those with a surcharge, again, you invest in that process, again, it plays catch up at some point on this revenue coming in on whether they go to sell it finally or the taxes hit um the following year on it.

Um, but we do a really good job.

A lot of cities don't even provide the service that we do on cutting vacant loss and vacant houses.

What is that fee?

It depends, it's an hourly rate.

So we just had our RFQ on it.

63 dollars an hour for the codes grass contractor.

So if they go out and they're like, Yeah, the grass was four feet tall and big backyard, it took me two hours, like that's the fee plus 15% surcharge, all billed through the city payment center.

Can I ask a question?

We're gonna run out of time here, but the um when you have a an inspector assigned to a property, a large scale property sold skyline, the Vincent, Knob Hill, Parkside Commons.

Do you keep does that one person keep all of the violations on a large property like that, or do you is it spread out?

Um it it depends.

It can be spread out.

Um if we'll have to assign maybe multiple inspectors to a property like that.

So, like on Monday, we might get a tenant complaint in apartment one D on Tuesday.

We might get an apartment uh complaint in on the seventh floor, could be two different inspectors handling those tenant complaints, but it is the same inspector handling the periodic inspection.

So if it needs a C of C, which is a three-year state mandated inspection, property maintenance and fire safety, that's one inspector doing that entire inspection.

But tenant complaints, we have to, I mean, we might have different staff available that day.

We try to get tenant complaints responded to immediately, sometimes same day, if not the next day, um, so we can get out and see whatever problem they have going on.

So recognizing that everybody's gonna want to use a personal break before the uh the next meeting, just a a couple quick thoughts as we as we get towards the end here.

One is when when you look at at the work, again, it's proactive and reactive.

Uh on the economic generation, that's really largely a permitting in our zoning.

Everything that we've talked about is as far as uh fines has to do with uh the people that choose to uh try to get away with not maintaining the property as the state law requires.

Uh what we know is that well-maintained properties uh are in area in uh in regardless of the neighborhood help to reduce crime.

So the more that we are able to make sure that our DPW team is able to come by after these uh after the lawn is cut and pick up what the contractors put to the curb, uh, the more that we're able to make sure the DPW is able to get out there at any time and and and uh reboard when a house has been uh a boarded house has been breached.

Uh and frankly, the more that we're able to make sure that corporation council is able to have the resources to go after people in court when we know that uh that is the more appropriate path than than the BAA, the safer our city is and the more people want to invest in it and are bringing their projects to um uh to zoning into permitting.

And uh, you know, we we do, you know, counselor to your point about um hey, you know, we we gotta be careful about how much we're charging our homeowners.

Couldn't agree more.

And every crane that we see in the sky right now in Syracuse, and I don't know the last time we saw this many cranes, because it might have been before I was born.

There were no zoning fees attached to the to the major developers that we're putting together that work that know that they pay those zoning fees in every other community that they develop in.

So there are some expected costs of doing business for these large projects that the developers do not experience in Syracuse, and we we means that we're under the market in a way that we don't need to be.

Yeah.

So I know that we're coming close to the time, but um one, because I work with both of you guys very closely, I do want to say thank you for the work that you do, especially when I give you guys a call, but that doesn't mean that I, you know, you don't burn my bridges sometimes.

Um always appreciate when you call it.

But um, I do I requested a while back, I didn't follow up, so it's not on anyone, but um, I did request a staff lift list of the cold inspectors, um, and what department they're in, as Littin residential, commercial, um, and uh I think there was one more area that we yeah, we will um I'll work with Ryan.

What could we have done differently better?

What other tools could we add to our arsenal for projects like that on the skyline?

So one of the reasons uh you know Jake started with bringing forward the the updated uh code enforcement bible that hasn't been this is the first rewrite in over 20 years we understand one of the reasons that we are one of the features agencies is because of the fact that we go back and we keep taking a look at where can we do better so we've got uh an upcoming meeting uh that is typical for us to do to look at the process and say okay what what could we have done better here and I would say the reason that um a lot of people have compared now anything that's tragic it's compared to Skyline I will tell you nothing has ever come close to Skyline since then uh having spent a lot of time in there the tools that we've built the relationship that we've built with law very specifically um and the relationship that uh we've continued to grow with uh the fire department because of the fact that fire safety is a is a major part of making sure these buildings are safe and legally occupied uh we've been able to apply tools to knob hill where we got into court and we we got into court a year ago with knobhill so you know we are far better positioned than we were before that doesn't mean anything to the people that are out of their units right now and so yeah we're we're coming together as we typically do for these to to say what what else could we have done differently and since we're not across the finish line is there anything to be applied now Jake real real quick before the five the five minutes we have left it one of the things that in in my other life that I work a lot with you know is um permitting the permits uh department and um so some you know I I get to hear a lot about they're not we're complaints but you know more I think it's it's lack of awareness of how the the Camino works or how the you know those are all new systems especially from the smaller um contractors companies you know is there any way and and this is something I think we've talked about before I think that we could bring to our the people that are applying or trying to get into the you know into the mix of things uh but they're smaller is there like training on how to use the system could it be consistent if you online you know anything that could help out yeah uh two initial offerings but uh we're also uh willing to sit with you and kind of brainstorm more but two initial thoughts is one we do have a number of resources online that explain as kind of like a user guide on how to do this but secondly we have multiple kiosks at the permit desk where you can go in and our staff will walk you through it maybe the first time the first couple of times and they'll walk you through it step by step.

But uh I can get with the permits team and just brand and Terry Bliss we can definitely brainstorm with you on uh how to kind of alleviate some of some of those um challenges is is the third party evaluators working well because I also hear some complaints about that that there's like lack of communication maybe between us and them and where the projects are and you know yeah I so Jake's gonna pull up some stats here real quick but uh yes it's working exceptionally well definitely uh we have four minutes Jake can you give that in two minutes the process really doesn't change I mean these third party firms are qualified uh engineers architects design uh review professionals that instead of just working here on a salary and we're paying them salary in fringe that we just we pay them an hourly rate so the process really is no different except for you know they're doing a review maybe you know from an office somewhere else instead of one park place but um what I will say is we've um just looking at numbers quickly on what we've invested in third party reviews and what we brought in uh for revenue and FY26 to date is uh roughly spending somewhere around um you know a couple hundred thousand dollars uh for reviews and brought in almost a million dollars in revenue okay just you know I can get you the details on that but yeah maybe you can send that to us later yeah yeah and the last comment if I we were talking about the board the boarding up there was there was um I think an audit called following the fire and I think there's um some ideas to maybe review the procedures if if it's indeed something we want to pursue uh quickly what I'll respond with is we could definitely explore that the additional methods and means for boarding and what was described in that will take more resources and more funding on material and staff and how we do that and the different demarcations um and if we want to have that right do we want to kind of put that out there or not that's a decision something we'll have to talk about because it includes putting a giant red X uh on the front of the building and sometimes that's maybe that attracts more attention I don't know something to talk about.

Uh quickly what I'll respond with is we could definitely explore that the additional methods and means for boarding and what was described in that will take more resources and more funding on material and staff and how we do that and the different demarcations.

Um and if we want to have that, right?

Do we want to kind of put that out there or not?

That's a decision something we'll have to talk about.

Because it includes putting a giant red X uh on the front of the building, and sometimes that's maybe that attracts more attention.

I don't know.

Something to talk about.

Um I have one last request.

Similar to the BAA sending us um their files every Friday, um, what's what's being on it?

Would you guys be able to send us um the vacant list per week or per month?

Once a month or once.

Yeah, so we have like a master vacant list monthly, and we can I know we worked with our data team to automate that and we can we could share that.

Yeah.

All right.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you everybody for coming with us.

Thank you.

A minute away from our next one, so thank you.

Thank you.

I was like,