Require the mosque to remove the parking pavers used illegally for years on the current property.

Thank you.

Given its placement on the site, the expanded building would indeed dwarf these lower elevation historic houses to the east.

Claiming that the large copper clad domes mimic characteristics in the historic district is at best humorous and at worst gaslighting.

The size of the lot and the extent of construction activity would prohibit effective measures to protect this vegetation.

Second pavement, removing the parking north of the proposed addition would mean less pavement than originally proposed, but the location and appearance of the driveway, and most importantly, its very purpose would be wholly inconsistent with the residential character of the historic district.

Emergency vehicular access around the building might be someone's preference, but it is not required by regulation or law, and implying that is the case is disingenuous.

Pavement along the eastern boundary would involve unavoidable soil compaction of the root systems for historic hedges and trees and the adjacent properties, leading to their decline in death.

And third, the landscape.

The revised proposal shows the property's most significant open space bifurcated by the proposed driveway, with no evidence of national intentional landscape design adjacent to it, nor is there any for the balance of the property.

In addition, three other components are worthy of brief mention.

A boundary fence of inappropriate design is still proposed, and it's unclear if it would provide effective screening.

The proposed plantings outside this fence would serve no practical purpose, nor do they reflect historic character, and they would likely die in this location, which would only lead to a degrading of the historic character of the budding properties.

Also, the applicant now offers to minimize light spill, but doesn't give a comprehensive view of how that would happen.

And lastly, dumpsters, although perhaps necessary, are not features typical in this residential district, and it's unclear if their location and treatment would be appropriate.

It's critical that these identified negative impacts be addressed in concert, for it's their cumulative effect that must be mitigated.

Unfortunately, neither the original nor revised proposal does that.

If the applicant had modified the existing building footprint to achieve a larger, regular, rectangular but still angled form, there would be a net increase in usable building space, and perhaps only a minor addition might be necessary.

The resulting overall smaller footprint combined with a robust landscape design and elimination of the internal driveway might conform to the Secretary's standards, and in turn allow this board to meet its obligation under the zoning ordinance as well as avoid a negative declaration pursuant to seeker.

But the proposal doesn't do that, and therefore I ask that you deny this application.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wishing to speak against or in opposition to the proposal?

Come forward.

Thank you.

Bob Dacey, 931 Comstock, that's two doors down from the south of the mosque.

Um the basic issue is that I'll just read from this thing.

Um the Shaw administration, Syracuse University, sold that property in good faith that it would be used for its stated purpose as a place for SU's Muslim students to gather to socialize and worship.

That's its purpose.

That's why it was sold to them.

That trust was soon violated as the larger Syracuse Muslim community took advantage of this facility.

Parking was expanded into the front yard in the grassy area next to the driveway.

What followed was a consistent breach of trust and lack of respect for the neighborhood.

Constant expansion of the mosque congregation has caused illegal parking problems south to Manley Field House, north to Stratford, and around the block into the neighboring east of uh Comstock, excuse me.

When the second lock was purchased, promises were made that it would not be developed or used as a parking lot immediately.

That promise was broken.

Cars were often parked there to test through the residence resolve.

Now, a huge edifice is planned for uh for further to further disrupt the character of this preservation neighborhood.

This is not a time for expansion.

It is a time to honor the purpose of the agreement to service the now 200 Muslim students at Syracuse University.

Is a time to reduce this facility's impact on the neighborhood and permanently move the expanded congregation to one of their more fitting facilities and return the Comstock building back to its intended facility and function.

Thank you.

Please stop this.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wishing to speak in opposition?

Gary Engelhardt 117 Circle Road.

So again, if we step back just for a moment and we look at all the comments that have been given to you, what we see is I think kind of an overwhelming case for you guys to reject this application.

Now let's just for the moment say that you've you you you disagreed with my assessment and you thought that it was it was worthy of of being uh approved.

Uh let's uh what I want you to consider is the distinction between is it legal versus is it wise?

Is it a wise decision to let this go forward?

And let me give you let me give you uh a reason why I think it's very unwise to do this.

Uh and and the idea is that everything about this expansion is predicated on the ability to park illegally.

If parking restrictions are enforced on Comstock and Stratford and in the Berkeley Park neighborhood, there will only be the number of available spaces essentially that are are on the new plan, which is I don't know how many 27, maybe more.

Uh that's simply not going to be enough.

It's simply not going to be enough to do this.

So here's the problem.

If you allow the expansion, you get this, you get this, you have this building with this huge with this huge footprint, uh, and uh which is irreversible, it's built, right?

But if you can't park, it can't be used in the way that it was intended to be used, whatever those intentions are, right?

So now you've got you've got a problem.

Okay, you've got a problem, you've got a problem.

Okay, you've got a problem, and that problem is you've got a building that now you can't use because you can't park the way that you're currently parking.

You've got a problem because you've approved a building that now has this huge footprint that can't be used.

Is it legal?

It might be illegal.

Is it wise?

Absolutely not.

And if anyone believes that they will receive an exemption for parking for the mosque in the city, that is not gonna happen.

That is gonna, that is frankly illegal.

You cannot get you cannot give religious organizations preferential treatment uh relative to non-religious organizations, and that will be subject to a legal challenge.

So this is really dead on arrival.

You can't park, you can't use it.

Why do it?

It it would be really unwise to do, it would be really unwise to do.

I I strongly recommend that you uh do not approve this application.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wishing to speak in opposition to the proposal?

Hearing none, we will go back to the original presenter to give them an opportunity to address the comments just heard.

You are the excuse me, you are the applicant.

Thank you.

Good morning to all of you.

Good morning, neighbors.

My name is Dr.

Mohammed Mohammed, I'm the president of ISNI.

The address is 925 Comstock Ab Syracuse.

Now, there are a few things were said technical.

Uh make sure uh architect will address that.

But there are things if you think that a few things were said, I cannot let go, unfortunately.

In one hand, our neighbors, and I really thank you for coming up here and pinpoint the issue that we have to improve uh in our design.

We appreciate that.

And we try, we attempt to do everything possible to do so.

Um there are relevant issues that was mentioned, but there are a few things that it's not our hand.

Rats and other things, it's not ISI issue.

It's it's it's bigger issue.

Now, but the bigger thing is, which is I'm actually uh didn't expect that at all.

In one hand, one neighbor say bring back your mosque to 1979, 3040 cars.

How are you gonna do that?

You're telling me to shut door my mosque.

That's not gonna happen.

That's actually, I wouldn't even propose a church or a Sunday God or anything, but that's out there.

The second thing also, presumptively enough, uh somebody questioned my funeral practices.

Yes, we are simple religion, beautiful.

Thank you for those kind words, but we do have very restrict and a procedure that has to be done.

And the current design of our mosque, earlier on 1979, yeah, we were many few, but we evolved with population evolving, services evolve as well, and we're lacking this funeral services.

And we're lacking this funeral services.

Now, the issue here, and I pinpoint that already last time, is we're diverging from funeral services to bigger space that's gonna have more people.

That's not gonna happen, and the parking lot issue.

That's that's they are really and uh technically and perhaps legally are independent.

Now this, the whole purpose of this is for funeral services.

Now, the other presumptive thing, and our neighbors took it behind uh basically on our behalf, wrongfully, though, the location on Jamesville is educational purposes.

We do not have enough classrooms, we took it there.

It's being used for that purpose.

Now, someone, and by the way, when uh our architect put in the letter that some of the neighbors mentioned that take your cemetery over there, it was missing our own mosque.

When we host it, it's in the record, but recorded.

When we host the neighbors to our mosque as discussion about the expansion, some mentioned that and explained to them.

That's that's the many of our lands are rocky, it's it's unusable, and the only thing that we can do is gonna be in the front when we come in, and that's not to be a good scenery for the whole thing.

There's more technical problem for that.

So I understand people did research, went back to our history, what we bought, the first land, the second land.

When we bought, when we purchased the second land adjacent to the mosque with the expensive will happen to it, that was way late 1990s, I believe.

So, yes, the intent was to use for services, and back then the service was what some of you as neighbors said recreational.

It trust me, you don't want us to put there a basketball or let our kids play football or soccer.

You can.

In fact, one kid asked me why we're not playing outside.

That day is long, and I said, I don't want to bother our neighbors, and I put them in the basement, and they keep breaking white lights, I keep repairing the lots.

I said that many times, but I don't want to be choked.

I'm behalf of my community, we should not be choked.

Now, let me let me say some uh parking space for religious establishments, well, Synagogue, churches, mosques, temples, whatever the prayer space, the city accommodates that one hour mass or Friday.

They don't give you permit to park there, they accommodate that.

If you drive, when I drop my son to a science Olympia, Nottingham, there's a church there on Saturday.

I when they're park on the Nottingham, I barely can go through the streets.

I said one hour, they're done, they're gone.

This accommodation, the city actually will have to give, in fact, otherwise, gonna shut down a lot of churches and mosques, and perhaps some synagogue if we have, I have a couple here.

So, so the idea is let's just focus on the building that meet requests of the board to be approved, but also leave the other issues for other departments, the city issue.

It's not it's not fair, I believe, to us with all those sort of comments that doesn't add to the the core of what we have here today.

Listen, board members, I don't tell you what to do, approve disapprove, but you're wise enough to ask our need, but you're wise enough that you can do the right thing, and I do expect that nothing has to be done by you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, Ben Larson, architect.

Um, two weeks.

That's how much time we had to revise this.

So all the comments that said it doesn't have enough information.

I would challenge anyone to have all the information that you request inside two weeks.

For more than 44 years, the Islamic Society of Central New York has stood beside Oakwood Cemetery.

This congregation has gathered here in times of grief and then in times of peace.

Children have become parents, parents have become grandparents, and now many of them rest right in the grounds right next to the mosque.

To someone unfamiliar with the Islamic tradition, I am one of those people.

Um, but I've made an effort to try and understand.

This proposal may appear to be only pavement, reduced green space, and a change to the historic character of the neighborhood.

But that view misses the pl what this place truly represents.

The site is profound memory, religious significance, and live tradition.

It is where sons carry their fathers to burial.

It is where daughters whisper prayers over their mothers.

Where families return to time and time again, because the bonds of love and faith do not end at the gravesite.

They endure.

In Islam, the dead are washed, carried over, and buried with urgency and dignity, ideally within one day.

These are sacred obligations, not optional customs.

The physical closeness of the mosque to the cemetery is therefore not a simple convenience, but a religious necessity that allows these rights to be carried out properly.

The mosque was serving this community long before the historic district was designated.

And indeed, the property was purchased before the historic district was even designated.

It is now grown along with the university and the city of Syracuse.

With that growth comes the need for modest expansion so that women, elders, and people with disabilities can fully participate in worship and funeral services.

Limit funeral right related parking on the to the cemetery when funerals occur.

We've made a great attempt to preserve all the trees that uh previous comments had addressed.

Um modifying the traditional mosque architecture, which that is not traditional mosque architecture, what you're seeing, but we're trying to better complement the neighborhood, not copy it.

Significantly reduce lighting impacts on nearby homes.

These are works of process, works in process, and expecting immediate results is simply unreasonable.

These are not the actions of us, uh these are the actions of responsible stewards who wish to remain beside their gr generations that they have buried.

We acknowledge concerns about parking, traffic, and neighborhood conditions.

However, these are challenges that exist across Syracuse and are influenced by larger forces, including the IA to one project and university growth.

It would be unfair to place the burdens of an entire city onto religious community that is simply asking to continue caring for its dead with dignity and respect.

You may not know this, but the cemetery at the uh Janesville site was not approved.

That's why it was removed.

This is the only location that the that this society has to bury their dead.

Thank you.

There is one term that we should probably remember when considering this building.

Umcontributing.

This is not merely a request for more space.

Is it a question for the that a community which has buried its loved ones here for decades may continue to do so with dignity, continuity, and with the fidelity of their faith.

Thank you.

Thank you.

At this point, we are going to close public comment.

And for discussion.

We just heard everything presented.

Do we have any questions?

Are you ready to discuss matters on hand?

Go ahead.

And the overwhelming uh community feeling, as I said when we met for the first time.

Um, I can't uh in good faith.

Uh, architect said this is a modest expansion.

I mean, I think on its face, this is not a modest expansion.

Um, it is uh out of character.

I like the design, it's aesthetically, it looks great.

Um, but it is uh if it was if this was any other building, this board would say that it is out of character for the area.

It's simply based on size and scope alone.

And again, I think uh for the record what you know Kate uh said is is what I would go back with.

So I mean that's just uh I considered my position on this board to be a community advocate, and again the support here, the amount of people that have shown up.

This is uh really overwhelming, and I think speaks to the issues uh that we are here to do.

So that's that's my position.

Thank you.

Howard um we want to make sure that we're talking mainly about the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation, and we're looking at two and nine.

think uh for the record what you know kate uh said is is what i would go back with so i mean that's just uh i considered my position on this board just be a community advocate and again the support here the amount of people that have shown up this is uh really overwhelming and i think speaks to the issues um that we are here to do so that's that's my position thank you howard um we want to make sure that we're talking mainly about the secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation and we're looking at two and nine and uh if you're not familiar I'll just read them the historical character of a property will be retained and preserved removal of distinctive material altercations of features spaces and spatial relationships that characterize the property will be avoided number nine yeah that's number two number nine new additions exterior alterations and related to new construction will not destroy historical materials features and spatial relationships that characterize the property or district the new uh work shall be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with historic materials features size scale proportion and and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment I look primarily at the spatial relationship to characterize the property and that's what I'm having most concern with in relationship to what I'm seeing and um and that's where that's where I'm stuck and that's where I can't get it passed and how this relationship with the environment with the neighborhood and the scale of the property that's being proposed to move forward.

And a couple of things were were brought up and I don't think that was discussed in any of you guys proposals and the remodeling or addition is working from the inside out um and that'll be interesting if there was some discussion about that that someone could bring up before expanding totally um and primarily I don't want to go down a rabbit hole so I want to stay stick to whatever the standards are to this because we could go on forever as to all the other items that's all I have to say.

So great great point um do you have a minute to discuss if a smaller expansion or a whole renovation of the building was was looked at prior to what's being presented today yeah we looked at combining the uh current prayer area with the funeral space making that one one large space um but the the size of the Islamic community that comes through for a funeral that it was just not not possible we could probably we we could look at that again if that is a determining factor but that is the only space that could be combined thank you for that and Nicole is recused Hillary any comments um I think the scale of this project is um out of touch with the historic character of the neighborhood um it seems pretty clear it's a very large addition um I brought it up at the end of last meeting but I wonder if um you know a smaller addition was considered more renovation interior there were questions about accessibility you know we've seen many um additions that just address accessibility um something that wouldn't uh be quite as large and out of scale um with the character of the historic neighborhood thank you um I'll just reiterate uh you know again uh standards number two and nine looking at uh and hearing comments from the from the community um mass of this structure um setting in a residential historic district um is out of tune with number nine um looking at the uh further impact upon historic vegetation adds into number nine it's the total environment package that we're looking at and uh the loss of character within the district um and I'll just I'll I'll stop there because it's pretty much kind of all the same thing so um do we have a motion on the table uh with all of our comments does anyone wish to make a motion motion to deny the proposal state of please or approve you're I'm just put to your motion speak a little more closely to that microphone a motion to deny this meet this proposal you're making a motion to the to deny this proposal do I have a second on that um well I I think it might um be a yeah one one other item on this we'll give a second just a second okay I'm gonna ask for a second on this motion to deny uh I'm sorry I would recommend uh yeah a motion and then if you know if you want to you know provide yeah the opportunity for them to resubmit I would yeah that's where I was going to yeah so we had a proposal we had uh we had a motion I gotta get a second and then we can discuss any additional or information on that so I need a second I'll second okay any modifications to this propos to this motion Howard uh yes uh to be able to come back with uh secondary um remodeling or um or additions uh that may be considered but as it stands uh denial in the scale of where it's at now

So I need a second I'll second okay any modifications to this proposal to this motion Howard uh yes uh to be able to come back with uh secondary um remodeling or um or additions uh that may be considered but as it stands uh denial in the scale of where it's at now so you have modification to the denial of coming back to the board with uh with a new design or a reduced scale design correct a straight out denial from the board that the applicant if they so choose to continue with their project they would have to come back no matter what correct uh in the event of a denial the applicant should should they so choose could apply or could uh appeal this up to the city planning commission okay or they could or they could you know uh resubmit with you know your proposed uh changes with a new design so a modification to the denial is that does that make sense or is that mo they could they could always yeah resubmit with uh a different uh uh an amendment more of a comment to move forward yeah so what it sounds as though is that the board I'm sorry is uh the the the board is seeking to deny the application but without prejudice so it gives the applicant the opportunity to come back uh resubmit uh a new design uh that is more in character with the but this surrounding the neighborhood this particular application is denied so they have to go forth with a brand new with a new application that's correct yep um just a moment please so we have a motion on the board to deny as submitted um I would like to add in that we need to uh put in the standards of number two and number nine into that motion okay are you okay with that I'm okay with that okay so can you repeat the motion on the table please a motion to deny this proposal based on um section two and nine of the secretary's interior standards okay Howard you and providing the opportunity for uh resubmital which provides with a new a new application that's correct a new design all second second okay all in favor as uh uh with with the motion on the table all in favor I thought aye posed one abstention thank you motion carries application has been denied thank you counsel am I allowed to uh take a question from the applicant at this point or no we have others on the agenda okay yeah absolutely but procedurally I just want to procedure wise I just I don't think so I need something from you to clarify to just define the denial by the fact it's vague or out of government those two terms are really really big so what is if I were to summate for my own committee I think from one I'll get that if I would do a summates this again what could I should be after what size I have because we should he should we did show the size of things I mean the the the right of the moss has a bigger size than what we have that so I need those to be clarified for my own community that I did not let them come in here to say that if it was here but this is this is has to be more commodity on the denial because I'm gonna take this to my community um that so out of connector subtility with all due respect from the board and the neighbors that doesn't make what is that if that's sir uh so a resolution will come out with uh greater detail um and then you can always reach out to Kate uh and then you know the discussion you know in greater detail and everything that it'd be a better that can be done on the staff uh on a staff level we'll um complete the the application uh I'm sorry the resolution will provide uh additional detail to you and then uh you we can have on a staff level um discussions about how to modify the design that to to meet the the uh secretary the standards secretary standards absolutely yeah no I think I think we're done for today thank you very much thank you for your time thanks everybody moving on next

We'll um complete the the application.

Uh I'm sorry, the resolution will provide uh additional detail to you, and then uh you we can have on a staff level um discussions about how to modify the design that to to meet the the uh secretary the standards, secretary standards.

Absolutely, yeah.

No, I think I think we're done for today.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your time.

Thanks for moving on, next public hearing.

Kate, can you please introduce the next project?

Yes.

Okay, so they're gonna review what we submitted.

Yes, yeah, we'll make sure that the board receives each street.

Okay.

Um if I could ask the I would ask everyone to lower the notch.

Who is the next here?

Yeah, we can't do that.

If we can carry conversation outside of the chamber so we can continue with our agenda, please.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, there are.

There are indeed.

Um, okay, hold on, let me get this up for everyone.

And thank you for oops, sorry about this, folks.

Let's see if I can at least you can look at the we'll start here.

Okay, um, so the next uh the next public hearing is uh for certificate of appropriateness 2610.

Um it uh uh the the proper the address is 720 South Beach Street.

It is for an exterior painting job.

This is a local protected site.

And so if the applicant or his representative could come up and talk about your project, please come up.

Please come up to the mic and introduce yourself, name and address for the record, please.

My name is Able Ramirez, I am the pastor of Faro Christ church.

Welcome 720 so beaches three.

Welcome.

Please let us know what your project is here.

Okay, I got a contractor here.

He can explain everything about okay, great.

Come on up.

Hi, good morning.

This is William.

Um this project is uh I have the scope wall here, and he said uh uh we are inspect uh all the exterior wall surface and protect the uh the windows, door, landscape, sign wall, and pressure wash on all the exterior surface and remove dirt and bricks and wall and the stove too and clean the mortar and joints careful to preserve a brick integrity, remove any lowest debris and boil up and um hand clean and effect the areas were necessary, rem remove this coloration and surface residue and repair mineral mortar is per imperfections is needed, prepare the brick for finishing applicant, scrape and send all peeling cracker or damaged paint, uh repair manual surface perfections and patch damaged areas, apply coking to gaps and cracks where needed, prepare the surface for proper addition or of the new paint system, clean up and as mode all effective areas, and priming is apply the premium exterior bonding primer to all uh bar surface, ensure proper ceiling and long-term addition, exterior paint, apply uh two coats of a high quality exterior weather recent paint, paint all church exterior wall, trim facial soffit, doors and architectural uh details as a specific ensure uniform finish and professional upperings, uh nature bricks or finished applicant.

Any professional grade grid main short receiver enhanced and protect the natural bricks upperings, provide a clean, rich uniform natural finish, protect the brick the brick against emotion penetrations and weather exposure, clean up and final inspection, and complete clean up of all debris and materials, final walkthrough inspection and touch up any necessary areas.

What is the material includes here?

Is exterior primer premium exterior paint, more bricks, caulking and patching material, surface preparation supplies, protective uh coverings and yeah, and that's it.

Okay, thank you.

Um so comprehensively, we are just cleaning uh and painting and resealing the exterior of the building and pressure uh pressure washing.

Yes.

Do we can we get them a um the standards for historic preservation?

So we're making sure that we're not high pressure wash or using the using the right cleaners so we're not degrading the historic surfaces, yeah.

As gentle as possible, uh any cleaning and pressure washing.

Yeah.

And what are what are the colors?

Yeah.

Uh natural.

Uh you think I send them up with the um the specific colors.

Um, do you know what we do not yet have the names of the colors that you're proposing, but we do have this rendering?

Right.

Yeah, but we have the image.

Um, just for the record, we just need a copy of the uh color swatch.

Excellent.

Oh my gosh!

I'll take it, yeah.

Or we can hand it up.

Yeah, we'll pass it on the board.

Okay.

Is it just one color?

Trim.

So that's this is just the this is the base.

This is very different from what appears on the image.

So please take a look at that, pass it around.

It's a lot lighter.

Yes, yeah.

Yep.

Exactly.

That's yeah, that's actually a lot lighter.

Um I have a have you looked at the roof?

One of my questions is on the front uh front gable, you have the heavy staining, kind of on either side of the large window.

Sorry about this, Holman.

Um have you looked at roof flashing to see if that's not discoloration coming from a a leak?

Uh no, it has uh it has the metal flashing as metal flashing, yeah.

Okay.

Are you talking about this?

Yeah, that those the vertical element there on either side of the large window.

This is kind of your central nave.

Um right here.

Yeah, all that all that vertical dark area to me.

It kind of looks like water penetration.

So I would just look at your flashing up top because that'll obviously degrade.

Um, thank you.

Yeah, metal though.

Yeah, they're okay.

Just making sure that it's it's sealed and and and caulked properly.

Um so that's the that's the color.

This is the image provides a little darker.

You are looking at painting the brick base, correct?

You're gonna paint the existing no, it's natural, clean.

You're gonna repoint the mortar.

Yes, it's the brick.

Yeah, you're gonna re-point the mortar, yes.

Um, using a suitable softer uh mortar for historic brick.

Um and the trim uh the brick that is not trim, that's just all brick um brick brick banding.

So that all stays natural, and we're just looking at the stucco being clean, primed, and painted, and basic um pointing and repairing of the mortar.

Yes, are you doing anything with the drip edge?

Because it it appears that you can tell by the tops that it's dripping over on calling some of the discoloration.

Uh no, I think the trip it's a little spectrum, but what is the metal?

It's not deteriorating looks like a parapet.

I'm looking right here.

Okay, the other spots you don't see that.

So I was wondering if that's deteriorating now.

You're gonna have to end up having to do some repair work on that good.

Or you're gonna end up with the same thing again after you do it all everything all over again, right?

Yeah, you years, you're gonna end up with the same fair comment.

So it's just check the check the roof.

Yeah, no, it's a it's a good call to take a look at the the cotton the flashing along the parapet walls.

Uh okay.

And we have uh Kate can provide um historic standards for preparation and cleaning of historic materials.

And this is a public hearing, so if there are right, thank you.

Thanks for reminding me of that.

Um is there anybody here wishing to speak in favor of this proposal?

Oh, yes, sir.

Please speak in the microphone and uh give us your name and address for the record.

Sam Gruber, 123 Clark Street.

Thank you.

Former president of the Westcott Neighborhood Association, uh, president of the Arts and Crafts Society, and co-author of the Historic District uh designation for the Westcott area.

First, I we haven't met, so I'm just delighted.

Um, one of the most important structures in the neighborhood.

Uh fortunately, this is the fourth continuous congregation to use this building.

The building has only been served, only served as a Christian religious structure, and it we are fortunate that it is continuing uh in that tradition.

It's not at risk.

Um it's very important, and we're excited that the new church is investing to secure the building and protect the building.

Um the exterior, as you probably know, is simpler in its current state than the only drawings that we have, which were presentation drawings, which were published.

No, we have 1916 drawings by Hallebeck, which show turrets and all sorts of other frills.

My suspicion is they were never built because of World War One and economic uh problems at that time.

We have no color photographs of it, uh, to my knowledge before even the 1990s.

Um it's always looked something like this, a little lighter, a little cleaner.

Uh we suspect, I suspect that it was a beige or a tan uh in keeping with the style of the material, and it to complement the yellow brick.

Um that said, however, personally I have no objection to seeing another color used because it's sort of a drab appearance, and to me, the virtue of the church is as much in its interior as the exterior.

So I do want the congregation to realize they are the um proprietors now of some of the finest stained glass windows in the city of Syracuse.

These are early works by Henry Keck Studios.

Um we've had the Arts and Crafts Society in the past has had its annual meeting in the church.

Uh so whatever is done uh to the exterior, I hope that the greatest attention will be given to the protection of the windows, and that includes including in the scope of work any necessary work in the framing of the windows to make sure that they are secure, and that in the carrying out of the wash, the power washing, whatever, special attention is made to protect the windows, not in any way to uh let the sprays to uh in endanger their their their fragile state.

Um I'm think the brick needs to be cleaned, should not be painted.

I wasn't clear from the presentation drawing whether that was AI.

You said heightening the color, yeah.

Um my own house a few blocks away is 1920.

I I'm I tried to one more application.

Oh yeah, okay.

I didn't speak for the last one, so I but I I just uh I mean I know the board will work with you to make sure that the work is done properly and respectfully, and uh I speak in favor of the effort to report it.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wishing to speak in favor of the proposal?

Okay, anyone here wishing to speak in opposition to the proposal hearing none, seeing none, uh public comment is now closed.

Uh board, any comments, questions?

Oh, if not, let's get a motion on the table and I'll motion to oh wait.

Other comments, questions?

The trim.

Is that changing?

You're just cleaning that up, and then you're just gonna paint the main brick.

All the trim is brick.

What's our trim that's that's all the brick power it just it looks like trim, it's all brick.

It's the same closing.

That's just cleaned up.

Okay, yeah, excellent.

It looks like stone trim around the main yeah, it's a it's a magnificent building.

Uh and as Sam said, uh, we have the drawings at the Onadog Historical Association where we have most of the KEC studio.

If you would like to come down to the museum, I would love to show them to you.

They are magnificent, as are the windows.

Um just wanted to put that on the record.

Uh motion to pass this.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, I'll make yeah.

I'll make a motion to approve the project as submitted.

Do I have a second?

A second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed.

Motion carries.

Thank you so much.

Good job.

Looking forward to the nice work.

Thank you.

And thank you for your patience.

Yeah, thank you for your patience this morning.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sam.

Thank you.

Yeah, maybe we can do that.

All business system in the old business.

This is our the final.

Um this is a continuation.

Um 20 25-163 713 through 15 East Genesee Street.

Um facade alterations.

Now this um has gone through several iterations, and um uh including um let's see, the uh uh uh uh changes in terms of uh the stuccoing or rather uh well the IFUS stucco to the rear, uh the restoration of the front, um removal of signage.

There is um new signage being proposed as well.

Uh and I think at this point we are now down to the windows and what is being proposed uh for the windows.

So with that, I will open it up to the applicants.

My name is Nine Patel, uh 713 East Genesis Street, uh property hotel we'd be presenting.

So be submitted the uh separate window based on your last comments and stuff.

So wanted to see what you take on it and uh take it from there.

Can you just give a description?

I mean, we all have the packet, but if you can just give a description I was gonna say, Mark Moose is here also.

He's the architect.

Yes, oh wonderful, okay.

Um if you can if you would wish to speak to the proposal of what we're looking at for windows and how they're being installed, because I believe um last meeting at the presentation, we were looking for a clarification on how these new windows go in the historic openings, what that interface looks like was our bigger our biggest concern, especially on the uh the front facade, south facade.

Right, and the way these windows are designed, they're a uh fiberglass PVC composite uh system, they're a fixed window with a horizontal mutton to simulate the double hung design.

What they are what we'll end up doing is removing the frame sashes all the way back to the brick finish itself.

We'll then return.

We're gonna set that window out so that we can be past the existing brick finish that's there so that we can seal that opening, and then we'll do any other dry wall and finish behind the new window frame so that from the outside you'll see window frame and brick.

You won't see anything else on the outside as far as that detail.

These windows have a flange on them that returns back into them so that we can anchor back to the existing framing so that we don't have to screw into the frame itself, it attaches back, and then our dry wall and our finish on the inside of the window uh hides all that uh restraint from vision all the fasteners.

Yeah, okay.

So we have a we have a photograph.

Thank you.

Ah so when you say the window sits proud of the brick.

It no, it sits just in line with the brick.

So that we're probably an inch forward of the joint between the brick and the framing behind.

So we have to cover that joint with the window frame.

Right.

So historically, that gap was covered with a wooden jam and a piece of tree.

Right, it's basically in the same location as where it was.

Okay.

So we're not we're not gonna set it forward or I gotta look at my architecture.

Yeah, back.

Where the frame is now.

Yeah, okay.

That's the intent.

Yeah, at first I thought you were saying flush with the front face of the buttons.

Yeah, so there will be a reveal.

Yes, that will be consistent across the front facade mimicking the window in situ currently, right?

Right.

Okay, and then this is uh uh composite PVC PVC and fiberglass and fiberglass window.

What color?

Yeah, and the I this is the warm or the warm warm stone color.

Correct.

Yeah, so the mat the color and it's baked in to the product, so it's white here.

White we submitted unlike we have that uh right next to it.

It's there's uh it says one.

Oh yeah, yeah, which would be consistent with the color, I think.

Exactly.

That's what we tried to match.

Okay, and they're they're all fixed.

And you're replicating the horizontal meeting rail uh to mimic uh the double-hung appearance.

Uh they're sitting in the same location horizontally in the window opening, they're affixed to the existing bucks, and you would skim over it.

There's no wood trim on the inside, it'd just be sheetrock right up to the to the window.

Um these windows are applied universally through the whole building.

Correct.

So we have one window type around the entire uh the openings are not exactly all the same size, but understood understood, but it's all the same window, all the same color, so you have a homogenous appearance.

Um we're meeting our goal of of uniformity.

Um this will be a first that I remember that we've seen a hybrid of a PVC fiberglass window.

So this is uh a new adventure for us as well in a historic building.

So I'd like to see how that um how that performs.

I I don't know much about it.

This manufacturer's been making them for years and years, so that's longevity.

What's the longevity?

They said the 30 year 30-year window?

Yeah.

Interesting.

Okay.

Um we've got the details.

Sorry, I was gonna say there just one other thing that came in, I think even yesterday was uh the sign package, and I think that in general you have already seen it, but uh except for I think the location of the sign on the rear of the property is slightly changed, so I don't know if you want to go there yet, or but I just want to.

Well, yeah, we'll we'll take a break from uh so windows, any questions on the window?

That's a valid breaking point.

Nicole, I used to I'm a little bit concerned that it's still uh PVC and not fiberglass.

Um, I'd like to I'm I um trying to think of I you know I don't see any like admixture of is it like 80% PVC or is it 80% fiberglass?

I don't know if you know the I do not know that component breakdown I want hesitation.

Yeah.

Um these are reinforced windows, by the way.

These are not just pure they have reinforcement at all of the joints, so it's designed for the expansion and contraction so that we don't have the same concerns that uh true PVC does so it restricts the expansion and then therefore so that you don't have the the movements that you normally would have.

And then it's would it also uh reduce the potential for the um when the the glass shrinks or the the PVC shrinks and you've got that film that develops on the inside?

Yeah, but you see that in vinyl replacement windows, and sometimes aluminum windows.

You see the cast, okay.

You're saying that like the argon.

Well it's yeah, you get that film on the inside that it breaks the air.

Well, yeah, when it unseals when it unseals right there.

Please look to your left.

So what kind of windows are those these?

Yeah.

Those are aluminum.

Yeah, these are aluminum from the seven.

It's the same, it's the same issue.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Uh all right.

Uh so just a slight hesitation on material.

Any okay?

Um, is the glass tinted at all or is it clear?

No, it's clear.

Okay, thank you.

I have a question of um, you know, what's 30-year windows.

Is there a and I don't know this, but so it's just throwing a question out there.

Is there a preservation standard of from what was previous used to now from a longevity standpoint?

Or they'll be doing this.

Can I try to answer that?

Sure, go ahead.

Go for it.

I think we try to capture that with uh original materials.

Right.

So wood for wood exactly understanding, but you know, today's wood, you know, it's not 30 rings per inch, you know, it's three rings per inch.

And so that density isn't there.

Um, but that would be my quick thought on it.

But I maybe way off yeah, basically the original windows last for a hundred years, and now we have materials that are lasting for 30.

Yeah.

If if you're lucky, if that if that if that yeah, which is why we always encourage the reuse of the original material rather than you see the quote for the wood one, right?

Just looking at it is what's over one million dollar to replace all this window.

I don't think that yeah.

Jeff already said I don't think buying new wood windows is the solution, is this the solution?

Okay, uh signage.

Can you speak to signage?

I mean, I know it was on the um I know that I don't know.

Yeah, I mean we we've got it passed handed out to the other.

And I think that the the board has actually seen the majority of this.

The only um in that if you don't mind, I'll just yeah, yeah.

quote for the wood one right just looking at it is what's over one million dollar to replace all this window I don't think that yeah Jeff already said I don't think buying new wood windows the solution is the solution okay uh signage can you speak to signage I mean I know it was on the um I know that I don't know that I mean we we've got it passed handed out to and I think that the the board has actually seen the majority of this the only um in that if you don't mind I'll just so the the part yeah yeah um so the park view signs will be removed from the roofs um back uh both on the front and rear facades and um the uh new signage uh on the front will be limited to the canopy correct which is where the uh park view signage is right now uh just limited there and then on the rear uh facade there will be uh uh a new Hampton in um sign that is a little bit higher than what you had seen before but um lower than the park view sign that's in the back right that's in the rear it's not seen from the street seen from 690 well from from your primary facade no right um it was lower indicating trying to indicate the uh the doorway if I remember correctly but except that the doorway is actually to the side right rather than way over to the right okay all right I mean that and that's uh the sizes uh cleared through zoning for that will be that's TBD I I'm just uh the zoning was just looking for a little direction in terms of uh the board's overall for the aesthetic I think the placement of it is fine okay so signage is okay and windows we just have one question and um longevity basically yeah but otherwise um we are uh so this is comment only correct we're not voting and then were we going to talk about how the ethos will be treated over the sills I think that came up at the last yeah the rear the actual um yeah so the brick sills okay on the side elevations we're talking about the rear building not the that's correct so just the other that's correct um and I think the question was holding well so we wanted to see what that interface again like just like we're talking about the interior how that IFIS returns to the window and then how it addresses those details they are actually believe they're uh on your drawings there could be windows there you go the sections sections you know what you're talking about yeah new one in okay so it uh from the drawing here it's it clearly says cut back existing masonry still flush with brick so we would lose that shadow line yeah on the back of the building and then that would be capped with an aluminum pan tucked under the window wrapped around and then the pan creates a bit of a shadow but we would lose that four inch kind of a the sill detail and this would just be on the losing this yeah correct the detail shows that they're all cut flush and covered they they will not be stepping the IFS around that but they will be doing an aluminum panning that mimics a thinner okay a thinner cell we can make comment on that I think I'd like to see those sills retained rather than cut off um losing those permanently um because one day be the eFus or IFIS however you pronounce it um could be removed for future use of the building and then that architectural feature would be lost um so I'd like to see a different treatment of that sill and the retaining that sill one of our comments I think the concern is that a good majority of them are deteriorated and falling apart with all of them that are gone more than likely would have to be replaced which can become counterproductive to what we want to do it starts opening up walls and materials and the concern is always been how do you you get that detailed work so that you seal the building is that stone or concrete the the sills I think I think they're concrete pre-cat like a precast concrete so once it starts to fail it's it goes okay so we have we so signage sign off on this on on the sign program windows we have uh we're in support of the of the all windows being the same style um same material uh we are adventuring a little bit as a board looking at this hybrid material um under understandably it's all different sizes for window sizes and uh we have comment regarding the loss of the window sills um in general on the on the rear on the back half of the building um generally in support of the project I guess that's the question is uh in re in regards to the sills is that

Uh we are adventuring a little bit as a board looking at this hybrid material.

Um understandably it's all different sizes for window sizes and uh we have comment regarding the loss of the window sills um in general on the on the rear on the back half of the building.

Um generally in support of the project I guess that's the question is uh in re in regards to the sills.

Is that a is that a is that a deal breaker?

Is that a deal breaker or um will the panning that is proposed?

Well I'll be consistent throughout the building.

I'm sorry, all be consistent.

Could the panning get enlarged as far as so it shows like uh that your your vertical expression, the face of the sill uh here is uh pretty narrow and what we have currently is probably a three or four inch right.

So could that panning be elongated?

Yeah, I think we could certainly increase that that flashing detail for sure.

Um we're mimicking, but we're we're maintaining a shadow line at a reasonable clip for reasonable costs for a pretty large project.

Yeah, right.

So you know, you this panning would come down and then return and then you'd have that detail that would be a well what we might consider is actually creating a episode sill that mimics that size and shape so that we have a continuous material, and then we'll flash to it so you'll still have that same shadow line if that's what you prefer to say durability-wise with just those short little pieces that's where that's where my mind goes with the AFIS or you're wrapping, you know, inch and a half on the edge, you know, that that projection of that sill.

You're gonna wrap that and then with those tanned materials they use a different material for waterproofing of sills and things because they know that water and moisture sits on it.

So it's a different material, so it has more durability than the surrounding, which is a vertical plane.

So it does uh the material itself changes, which makes it more durable.

We'd want to put a drip edge and things on it because we don't want to get a what's the material help us understand it.

It's it's still an EFIS product, but the the actual finish itself is designed as a waterproof.

Is it a panel or is it applied?

No, it's applied, just the same as an EFIS material would be.

It's just the finish itself is different.

It's more mortar.

Mortar based moisture resistant isn't that it?

Yes.

So you you would basically very similar to the rest of the building.

They just use a different material so that you you account for the moisture.

Wateries, how's that sound?

Yeah, I'm I'm just curious for the sills that are deteriorated.

Um is there any consideration for putting some type of less expensive material to flash around?

Um because it from the photo, it looks like a lot of them are still intact, and that's a permanent change to cut them all flush with the brick.

I think that's the same.

Well, if we were gonna if they're gonna IFIS it, they would leave it in place and they would sort of exactly we'd use that profile and apply over it.

Right.

So the ones that are totally damaged would preserve what's be rebuilt and the others would be preserved and they'd be cast under the sympathetic material.

Yeah, I mean we have to look at pointing and things like that on the building either way, right?

No matter what we do just to preserve the building, same thing with the sills.

We have to look at what's deteriorating, what's causing it, because we don't want to just cover over a problem.

Good owner.

Um with with that, um if you got notes on that, are you able to write that up?

Okay, so we've got all of our comments if you've got to be able to do that.

Yeah, all of your comments.

Um and it sounds as though uh the comment is is overall positive in terms of the accommodations and and revisions that have been made all the way along to get us to this point.

So um that yeah, and if I may add a couple of things that so obviously weatherwise uh we have a deadline with uh Hampton Brian, we have to come out by October in order to make it uh for the time schedule and whatnot.

I would appreciate if you guys can make a decision sooner so we can start the process or can we start section of it or I don't know.

Yeah, so um what happens from here on out is that the the overall positive response goes back to zoning and then it's an administrative approval.

So with a with a positive response, uh you should be able to move through zoning uh uh with all appropriate haste.

So thank you.

So I think you that you'll uh you should be fine.

Okay, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, all right.

Thank you for your patience today.

And I'm coming back a couple of times for this, but I think we've we've hit our part uh we've hit our marks for historic preservation with this project.

So we thank you for your time and and uh patience on it, I appreciate it.

Good luck with the job.

Thank you.

What no opposition?

No, I don't know.

No opposition.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh motion to no new business.

No new business.

No discussion, any discussion or correspondence?

Um I just uh I would just say yeah, every everyone uh uh thank you all for your diligence on this uh difficult uh set of projects.

So well, at least the first one.

The well the third one too.

The third one we walked a long walk with this one, and I've been on each other a long time, so good job.

So more so more to come.

Yeah, so cool.

Oh, we have some fun ones coming up too.

Oh yeah.

Can I get a motion to adjourn?

Motion.

Second, second.

All in favor?

Oh yeah.

Opposed, abstain.

I'm gonna stay.

All right, great job, everyone.

Thank you very much.